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Poll

What period of gay history would you like to discuss first?

The fifties and sixties - before Stonewall
9 (50%)
Early Gay Liberation 1969 - 1975
2 (11.1%)
Political awakening 1975 - 1981
0 (0%)
The onset of AIDS 1981 - 1996
6 (33.3%)
Post Protease Inhibitors 1996 - Present
1 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: February 24, 2007, 01:59:08 AM

Author Topic: Gay History -- How We Got Here  (Read 522052 times)

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1875 on: June 22, 2022, 09:27:11 PM »
A bit more on the period between 1917 and 1933 in Russia. First off, homosexuality was decriminalized after the revolution:

https://www.marxist.com/bolshevik-decriminalisation-of-homosexuality-intentional-or-oversight.htm

Then, in the 1930s, Stalin recriminalized it:

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/gay-rights-1933-germany-and-ussr

But in the period from 1917 - 1933/34 there was a flowering of culture associated with same-sex sexuality:

https://www.glbtrt.ala.org/reviews/off-the-shelf-23-around-the-samovar-tracking-lgbt-russian-histories/
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline Sara B

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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1877 on: June 23, 2022, 06:47:15 AM »
"Painted during the period 1932-1933, The Boxer depicts Boris Snezhkovsky, who frequently modelled for the artist. In a letter to his sister, Somov wrote: 'two days ago, I finished a portrait in oil, a 'nu' (half-length), and afterwards I painted a 'still life' beside him: a mirror, behind him a chest of drawers, on which lay his shirt and vest, with a pair of boxing gloves hanging on the wall the painting is not bad' (letter dated 28 February 1933). Given that Somov was his harshest critic, his own description of the work as 'not bad' suggests that he rated the finished composition quite highly.
Somov first met Boris Snezhkovsky in June 1930 during his work on the illustrations for Daphnis and Chloe. Snezhkovsky was the model for Daphnis and henceforth was referred to by Somov in his diaries as 'Daphnis'. Mikhail Seslavinsky in his 'Rendez-vous' quotes Somov speaking about Snezhkovsky: 'my model, a Russian, 19 years old, turned out to be clever, well-educated and nice'. During the course of the 1930s, Somov went on to paint his model on numerous occasions; another memorable work entitled Obnazhennyi iunosha [Nude youth] (1937) is in the State Russian Museum, St Petersburg.

Somov left Russia in 1923 to accompany the seminal exhibition of Russian Art that took place in New York in 1924. He never returned and settled in Paris in 1925 where he enjoyed life in the cultural capital of the world, frequenting theatres, music concerts and exhibitions. In terms of his artistic influences, he felt much closer to the Old Masters, rather than his contemporaries. He was particularly drawn to the French 18th-century Rococo painter François Boucher."

There is more at their website:

https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5510012

Thanks for providing that information, Michael. Beautiful paintings of beautiful young men.

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1878 on: June 23, 2022, 10:30:27 AM »
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1879 on: June 23, 2022, 11:01:25 AM »
More on Russian Gay History:

It's been a long, long time since my college course on Imperial Russian history, but I seem to remember some members of the royal family were gay.

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1880 on: June 23, 2022, 12:28:25 PM »
It's been a long, long time since my college course on Imperial Russian history, but I seem to remember some members of the royal family were gay.

Yes, and if you find materials on them please share! The one that I come up with on a quick search is Grand Duke Konstantin, who was the grandson of Nicholas I. He is mentioned in this:

https://www.calvertjournal.com/features/show/9567/being-lgbtq-secret-histories-lgbtq-life-in-pre-revolutionary-russia
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1881 on: June 23, 2022, 12:32:26 PM »
"In the 15th-17th centuries, male homosexual contacts were not uncommon among the young men of the nobility: even Tsar Ivan IV (the Terrible) had close relations with young noblemen, most notably Fedor Basmanov, who was called the “Tsar’s lover” by many contemporaries – from Russian prince Andrey Kurbskiy to foreign mercenaries in the Russian service, including Albert Schlichting and Heinrich von Staden."

https://www.rbth.com/opinion/2013/08/06/back_to_hostility_the_roots_of_russias_anti-gay_attitudes_28665.html
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1882 on: June 23, 2022, 12:52:14 PM »
Yes, and if you find materials on them please share! The one that I come up with on a quick search is Grand Duke Konstantin, who was the grandson of Nicholas I. He is mentioned in this:

https://www.calvertjournal.com/features/show/9567/being-lgbtq-secret-histories-lgbtq-life-in-pre-revolutionary-russia

It might be I was actually thinking instead of Prince Felix Yusupov, who cross-dressed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Yusupov

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1883 on: June 23, 2022, 12:55:45 PM »
It might be I was actually thinking instead of Prince Felix Yusupov, who cross-dressed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Yusupov

Here's the equivalent page on Grand Duke Konstantin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duke_Konstantin_Konstantinovich_of_Russia
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1884 on: June 23, 2022, 01:32:34 PM »
The mention of "male brothels in Saint Petersburg" got me looking into that subject a bit more. Apparently there is a history which was published in 2014:

https://popularpublicity.com/2014/10/10/new-book-reveals-the-hidden-history-of-male-prostitution/
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline killersmom

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1885 on: June 23, 2022, 10:33:28 PM »
More on Russian Gay History:

https://community.middlebury.edu/~moss/RGC1.html

Really really interesting, Michael. I read most of it but did not have a chance to visit all the links, but hopefully will have time tomorrow to do so. There really is a rich history there.
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Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1886 on: June 23, 2022, 11:12:17 PM »
Really really interesting, Michael. I read most of it but did not have a chance to visit all the links, but hopefully will have time tomorrow to do so. There really is a rich history there.

What's fascinating to me, Linda, is how quickly this flowered in Russia after homosexuality was made legal - and how quickly Stalin repressed it. There's a message there to be sure!
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline fritzkep

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1887 on: June 24, 2022, 08:15:13 AM »
What's fascinating to me, Linda, is how quickly this flowered in Russia after homosexuality was made legal - and how quickly Stalin repressed it. There's a message there to be sure!

Way too true. Especially since the party here that wants desperately to be in charge takes its cues from such people, even though they deny it.

Thanks for all the info, Michael!

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Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1888 on: June 24, 2022, 01:14:13 PM »
Way too true. Especially since the party here that wants desperately to be in charge takes its cues from such people, even though they deny it.

Thanks for all the info, Michael!

Thanks Fritz. Yes, it's disturbing to see parallels between the current day and the 30s (in both Russia and Germany).
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #1889 on: June 24, 2022, 01:23:08 PM »
One more thought on Russian gay history is the relationship between Vaslav Nijinsky and Serge Diaghilev. There have been books written about this - it was a fiery, tempestuous and very public relationship:

https://thegenealogyofstyle.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/what-nijinsky-wrote-about-diaghilev/

Here's a page from the Victoria and Albert Museum with a little detail (relationship started in 1908 and appears to have ended in 1913) and also some sumptuous costumes (Coco Chanel!):

https://www.vam.ac.uk/articles/diaghilev-and-the-ballets-russes

There has been a play written about it:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/12/the-love-affairs-of-serge-diaghilev

As well as a ballet:

https://australianballet.com.au/behind-ballet/nijinsky-and-diaghilev#:~:text=The%20tempestuous%20and%20troubled%20relationship,through%20Nijinsky's%20memories%20and%20hallucinations.

All Russian history. And all ignored by those who want to erase our place in history
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper