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Poll

What period of gay history would you like to discuss first?

The fifties and sixties - before Stonewall
9 (50%)
Early Gay Liberation 1969 - 1975
2 (11.1%)
Political awakening 1975 - 1981
0 (0%)
The onset of AIDS 1981 - 1996
6 (33.3%)
Post Protease Inhibitors 1996 - Present
1 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: February 24, 2007, 01:59:08 AM

Author Topic: Gay History -- How We Got Here  (Read 518291 times)

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #405 on: April 23, 2007, 04:30:12 PM »
I suggest, following the lead of Jack, that we move the discussion into the late 70s now.  Of course remember that we can still continue to discuss earlier periods.

I will be posting some personal comments from this period - most likely on Wednesday (as that will give me time to finish my questions from 'The Celluloid Closet' thread).  I'll post some questions round about then too.
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #406 on: April 24, 2007, 03:59:52 AM »
I suggest, following the lead of Jack, that we move the discussion into the late 70s now.

Whoooooops, didn't mean to jump the gun.  Sorry.  :-[

Jack
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Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #407 on: April 25, 2007, 02:28:34 PM »
I suggest, following the lead of Jack, that we move the discussion into the late 70s now.

Whoooooops, didn't mean to jump the gun.  Sorry.  :-[

Jack

Not a problem!  I think it is time to move along - with the proviso that we can still post about earlier periods.
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #408 on: April 27, 2007, 12:16:02 PM »
Questions for 1975-1980

1.)  Sgt. Leonard Matlovich became one of the first high profile individuals to say that he was gay and wanted to stay in the Armed forces.  He delivered a letter to the Air Force on March 6, 1975 stating that he was homosexual and wanted to stay in the Air Force.  On Sept. 8, 1975 he appeared on the cover of Time magazine (http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19750908,00.html) (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,917784,00.html).  Do you remember his case?  How did this affect your opinion of the gay rights movement?

2.)  Also in 1975 Mary Jo Risher became one of the most high profile lesbians to fight for custody of a child.  Here fight was made into the made for TV movie 'A Question of Love' in 1978.  Do you remember any similar custody cases from this period or do you remember the movie?  What were its effects on you?

3.)  In June, 1976 the platform of the Democratic Party was put in place with no 'purple' plank - that is, there was no inclusion of a call for gay rights in the platform.  This was a change from the 1972 platform where there was an 11 hour debate on issues such as gay rights - do you remember this - did this affect your opinions on politics at the time?

4.)  As I have mentioned in the previous period, this period was preceded by the first LGBT candidates in office.  Do you remember any candidates or campaigns for office in your area?

5.)  In January 1977 Dade County Florida passed a Human Rights ordinance that became effective on Feb. 17 of that year and started Anita Bryant off on her 'Save Our Children' campaign.  Do you remember the campaign?  What effect did it have on your local communities? 

6.)  Following the Dade County vote there were votes in other cities that overturned gay rights (including Eugene, Oregon; Saint Paul, MN and Wichita, Kansas).  Were you living in any of these areas during the campaign or do you remember them?

7.)  Do you remember the Orange Juice boycott following the gay rights ordinances failure?

8.]  In California following the defeat of gay rights ordinances and the banning of gay teachers in Oklahoma and Arkansas Senator John Briggs, a former insurance salesman, proposed banning anyone from teaching who 'advocated, promoted or encouraged' homosexuality.  Do you remember the Briggs initiative?  Did it have any impact on discussions where you lived?

9.)  Harvey Milk became a San Francisco City Councilman in November, 1977.  Do you remember his election?  Were you aware of his work against the Briggs initiative?  When he was shot in city hall do you remember the coverage?

10.) In 1979 there were protests surrounding the film 'Cruising.'  Do you remember the protests?  Did you see the film? Did you think the protests were justified?

11.)  On October 14, 1979 the first national gay rights march took place in Washington D.C.  Were you there?  If so, please share your memories.

12.)  Also in the 70s gay pride marches became more common - did you attend any gay pride marches in the 70s?  What do you remember from them?

13.)  Gay and lesbian books became big business during the late 70s.  A few big titles were 'Rubyfruit Jungle', 'Taking Care of Mrs. Carroll', 'Sexual Outlaw', 'Dancer from the Dance', 'Tales of the City' and 'Faggots.'  Do you remember reading these or any other LGBT books during this time?  Did you visit any LGBT bookstores? 

14.)  There was also more coverage of LGBT issues on television including 'A Question of Love', 'The Naked Civil Servant', 'The War Widow', 'Sergeant Matlovich vs. U.S. Air Force' and T.V. shows like 'Soap.'  Do you remember any particular gay/lesbian programing in the Seventies that caught your eye?

15.)  In 1977 in San Francisco the murder of Robert Hillsborough by fag bashers sparked an outpouring of outrage and grief (http://thecastro.net/parade/parade/hillsborough77.html) and led to the formation of Community United Against Violence, an organization that keeps statistics on violence against LGBT people.  Do you remember any violence of this nature in your area?

16.)  As we discussed in the last time period discos were very popular during this period.  Did you go to gay discos in your area?  Do you have any particular memories?  If you didn't like disco were there alternative spaces for people like you to get together?

17.)  The punk movement also happened during this period.  As a group punks had both positive and negative responses to homosexuality - do your remember any of these?  Did you know about the Tom Robinson Band?  Did you know about Wayne County and the Electric Chairs?

18.)  In Canada the Truxx bar was raided in Montreal and 'The Body Politic' was the national gay newspaper.  Do you remember reading the 'Body Politic' or the raids in Montreal? 

19.)  In the late 70s the 'Rocky Horror Picture Show' gave a lot of young people a non-threatening way to deal with sexual diversity and fun.  Did you attend the 'Rocky Horror Picture Show' during this period?  Do you have any memories to share?

20.)  It was also during this period that Gay film festivals started - beginning in San Francisco in 1977.  Do you remember any particular films from this period?  Did you see 'Outrageous'?  Do you remember seeing 'Word Is Out'?

21.)  The 'White Night Riots' happened in San Francisco on May 21, 1979 in response to the verdicts of the murder trial of Dan White.  Were you in San Francisco at the time?  Do you remember the White Night Riots?  If so, please share your memories.

Of course, as always, please feel free to add your own questions.  My apologies for this being centered around U.S. events - it's what I know.  However, if you are from another country, please tell us about what was happening where you lived during this period.
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline Jack too

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #409 on: April 27, 2007, 02:14:09 PM »
Questions for 1975-1980

13.)  Gay and lesbian books became big business during the late 70s.  A few big titles were 'Rubyfruit Jungle', 'Taking Care of Mrs. Carroll', 'Sexual Outlaw', 'Dancer from the Dance', 'Tales of the City' and 'Faggots.'  Do you remember reading these or any other LGBT books during this time?  Did you visit any LGBT bookstores? 

I knocked off three gay books published in 1978, each was brought out by a mainstream publishing house:  Edmund White's Nocturnes for the King of Naples was a short, elegiac, novel which White once said was the favorite of his works.  Dancer from the Dance, was another, and was Andrew Holleran's debut.  It was the auspicious beginning to a series of fine books that are like a modern reworking of the ancient Irish story of Oisín's sojourn in Tir na nÓg, the Land of Youth, and his fate when he returns to the everyday world.  (The fatal blaze at the Everard Baths in May '77 figures in the novel.)  The last – which I had to give up on even though I'd made it three-quarters of the way through – was Faggots.  This was written by Larry Kramer (Academy Award nomination for the script of Women in Love) on the heels of a disappointed love affair, according to an interview with him in the April 6, 1998 New York Magazine, and it does have the flavor of sour grapes.  But mainly it desperately cries out for serious editing, and a better sense of humor.

Gay movie actor, George Nader (a childhood lust object of  mine from Loretta Young's TV show) wrote a sci-fi novel, Chrome

I recently reread White's Nocturnes, and felt that it did not quite hold up for me.  I enjoyed it the second time around, but felt that some of it was simply purple rather than "baroque," an adjective sometimes applied to it.  I also made another valiant attempt at Faggots, but couldn't even get a third of the way through it this time.  I find the book just thuddingly heavy-handed and over-the-top, but then I think his prize-winning play Normal Heart suffers for much the same reason. 

I also read the collected poems of the lesbian poet, Elizabeth Bishop, and Cavafy, a book by Robert Liddell on the life and work of the gay Greek poet, whom I'd first been introduced to by a gay workmate in the mid-Sixties.   I also saw a production in Greenwich Village in early '78 of two modern Noh plays by the gay Japanese writer, Yukio Mishima - though I don't remember if the content of either play was gay.  The next fall was Bent, starring Richard Gere and David Dukes as two lovers in a Nazi concentration camp, at the new Apollo Theater on West 42nd Street - part of a brief attempt to bring legit theater back to the Duece.

As I recall in NYC, in addition to the Oscar Wilde book store, there was a Different Light in the Village, but many bookstores there carried gay and lesbian books, and most mainstream bookstores in other parts of town did too. 

Jack
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Offline Jack too

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #410 on: April 27, 2007, 02:23:00 PM »
Questions for 1975-1980

10.) In 1979 there were protests surrounding the film 'Cruising.'  Do you remember the protests?  Did you see the film? Did you think the protests were justified?


I glimpsed the protests and, of course, there was stuff in the gay press and the mainstream press.  It was a topic of conversation for awhile, but then part of the conversation was about the gay men who took bit parts in the film...as I recall a group of them had their photo, rather sexily posed, in After Dark, which was still being published then.  I have never seen the film, though I was thinking just last week when I came across some reference to it that perhaps I should give it a look.

Is it from a novel, I don't remember.

http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/16/cruise.html - brief article about the film

http://velvet_peach.tripod.com/fpaccruising.html - longer article, including several reviews

Jack
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 02:34:22 PM by nycnotkansas »
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Offline Brokeback_1

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #411 on: April 27, 2007, 05:56:10 PM »
Questions for 1975-1980

1.)  Sgt. Leonard Matlovich became one of the first high profile individuals to say that he was gay and wanted to stay in the Armed forces.  He delivered a letter to the Air Force on March 6, 1975 stating that he was homosexual and wanted to stay in the Air Force.  On Sept. 8, 1975 he appeared on the cover of Time magazine  Do you remember his case?  How did this affect your opinion of the gay rights movement?

No. I have no important memories of this case. I have a vague memory of thinking it was completely unfair. In 75 I turned 20 and was involved in my own battle to achieve a measure of independence BUT when you brought this up I remembered males my age were split about 50/50 on the subject of gays in the military.

2.)  Also in 1975 Mary Jo Risher became one of the most high profile lesbians to fight for custody of a child.  Here fight was made into the made for TV movie 'A Question of Love' in 1978.  Do you remember any similar custody cases from this period or do you remember the movie?  What were its effects on you?
No recollection whatsoever of any of this

3.)  In June, 1976 the platform of the Democratic Party was put in place with no 'purple' plank - that is, there was no inclusion of a call for gay rights in the platform.  This was a change from the 1972 platform where there was an 11 hour debate on issues such as gay rights - do you remember this - did this affect your opinions on politics at the time?
Yes, I remember this. I got into a fight with a guy in my dorm who kept saying fags needed to not be embraced but kiilled. He had no idea I was 1/2 a fag and thought I would support his view but after 9 or 10 beers I said know what, I'm half a fag and popped him in the jaw. He was surprised and bought more beer. 

4.)  As I have mentioned in the previous period, this period was preceded by the first LGBT candidates in office.  Do you remember any candidates or campaigns for office in your area?Yes, but i can't remember their names. I remember wondering how they could be so open when people said such awful things about gays. I respected them a great deal

5.)  In January 1977 Dade County Florida passed a Human Rights ordinance that became effective on Feb. 17 of that year and started Anita Bryant off on her 'Save Our Children' campaign.  Do you remember the campaign? YES. It was discussed in the family. My father supported it, which was to be expected as his son had been molested. Then he asked ME and I said she was nuts. I think that's when he knew definitively about me.  He was also terminally ill by then and always scowled when he heard her after that and said she needed a good lay. What effect did it have on your local communities?  I remember people in Brooklyn talking about her. Some felt she was a great woman and others felt she had gone off the deep end.

6.)  Following the Dade County vote there were votes in other cities that overturned gay rights (including Eugene, Oregon; Saint Paul, MN and Wichita, Kansas).  Were you living in any of these areas during the campaign or do you remember them?I have no memory of any of it and was disconnected internally from all of it. It was gay, and too many gay people I'd tried to speak with either tried to take my pants off with sweet words or flat out said there were no bi men, that bi was a filling station on a roadtrip to gay. So I disconnected, not that I was ever very connected to begin with

7.)  Do you remember the Orange Juice boycott following the gay rights ordinances failure?
Yes. My family refused to buy juice, but started again when the 2 youngest complained

8.]  In California following the defeat of gay rights ordinances and the banning of gay teachers in Oklahoma and Arkansas Senator John Briggs, a former insurance salesman, proposed banning anyone from teaching who 'advocated, promoted or encouraged' homosexuality.  Do you remember the Briggs initiative?  Yes. My response was to shrug and figure I should just stay quiet.Did it have any impact on discussions where you lived?Yes, it was discussed all over the place. Oddly the very oldest thought it was wrong, most my age seemed to support it

9.)  Harvey Milk became a San Francisco City Councilman in November, 1977.  Do you remember his election?  Were you aware of his work against the Briggs initiative?  When he was shot in city hall do you remember the coverage?Just the coverage. Numerous people treated it as a joke, which I found awful. I used to say it was awful, and they'd say yeah it is, BUT...

10.) In 1979 there were protests surrounding the film 'Cruising.'  Do you remember the protests?
YES  Did you see the film? NODid you think the protests were justified?YES. I thought it illuminated a crazy subculture and people would think everyone was like that. Plus I had my own reasons for running away from sadists.

11.)  On October 14, 1979 the first national gay rights march took place in Washington D.C.  Were you there? No If so, please share your memories.none

12.)  Also in the 70s gay pride marches became more common - did you attend any gay pride marches in the 70s?  Yes, one What do you remember from them?I was embarressed and wondered what leading a man on a leash was supposed to celebrate. I have never attended one since, and neither have any of the  bi friends who were at that particular parade with me. Why? The aforementioned leash, and people giggling with a bitchy  'suuuure you are' when we said we were bi. We got approached a number of times at that parade, we were a good looking bunch. We did not like the skepticism. And felt we did not belong

13.)  Gay and lesbian books became big business during the late 70s.  A few big titles were 'Rubyfruit Jungle', 'Taking Care of Mrs. Carroll', 'Sexual Outlaw', 'Dancer from the Dance', 'Tales of the City' and 'Faggots.'  Do you remember reading these or any other LGBT books during this time? Sexual Outlaw Did you visit any LGBT bookstores?  yes

14.)  There was also more coverage of LGBT issues on television including 'A Question of Love', 'The Naked Civil Servant', 'The War Widow', 'Sergeant Matlovich vs. U.S. Air Force' and T.V. shows like 'Soap.'  Do you remember any particular gay/lesbian programing in the Seventies that caught your eye?Soap. I related lol

15.)  In 1977 in San Francisco the murder of Robert Hillsborough by fag bashers sparked an outpouring of outrage and grief (http://thecastro.net/parade/parade/hillsborough77.html) and led to the formation of Community United Against Violence, an organization that keeps statistics on violence against LGBT people.  Do you remember any violence of this nature in your area?I knew it was always possible, especially in the Village where kids from uptown came to prey on gay men. I was much less worried about anything in the then tightly woven neighborhoods of Brooklyn, where--at least in my area-- everybody knew SOMEbody, or had one in the family, or knew soandso's brother. It was surprisingly live and let live unless you were a flamboyant queen. They would suggest you take it to Manhattan. Where I lived I always felt lesbians were more likely to be hurt; there were a lot of macho guys there and some took lesbianism as a personal affront. This all changed for the worse when drugs became widespread

16.)  As we discussed in the last time period discos were very popular during this period.  Did you go to gay discos in your area? yeah Do you have any particular memories? yeah. bad music and older gay men who tried to pay for sex. If you didn't like disco were there alternative spaces for people like you to get together? yeah, straight rock clubs. The whole bi group usually ended up in straight rock clubs and someone always ended up going home with a rocker our age. But we all drank too much and mostly went to bars, usually straight ones. The gay ones were a pain, someone older would always bug you.

17.)  The punk movement also happened during this period.  As a group punks had both positive and negative responses to homosexuality - do your remember any of these?  Did you know about the Tom Robinson Band? yeah i didn't care for it  Did you know about Wayne County and the Electric Chairs? ditto

18.)  In Canada the Truxx bar was raided in Montreal and 'The Body Politic' was the national gay newspaper.  Do you remember reading the 'Body Politic' or the raids in Montreal?  no

19.)  In the late 70s the 'Rocky Horror Picture Show' gave a lot of young people a non-threatening way to deal with sexual diversity and fun.  Did you attend the 'Rocky Horror Picture Show' during this period? Yes Do you have any memories to share? I never got obsessed by it like my friends, but it was ok. On the silly side.

20.)  It was also during this period that Gay film festivals started - beginning in San Francisco in 1977.  Do you remember any particular films from this period?  Did you see 'Outrageous'?  Do you remember seeing 'Word Is Out'? Yeah,   The Word Is Out. It didn't really apply to us...at least that's how we felt at the time. Gay sex was something we all did but a gay lifestyle just seemed, I dunno, false to every one of us, for us. We weren't gay, so why behave 'gay'?

21.)  The 'White Night Riots' happened in San Francisco on May 21, 1979 in response to the verdicts of the murder trial of Dan White.  Were you in San Francisco at the time?  Do you remember the White Night Riots?  If so, please share your memories.No, No and No

Of course, as always, please feel free to add your own questions.  My apologies for this being centered around U.S. events - it's what I know.  However, if you are from another country, please tell us about what was happening where you lived during this period.
Quote
I honestly don't know if our experiences are appropriate for the thread.[ I would like to see what 2 friends from that group--one a a fireman and the other a disco king who would NEVER have acted as a gay disco king although he slept with half the men in NY--have to say or add...] We were a subgroup of a subgroup and got bashed for it on both sides, by straight AND gay people. There was more acceptance by gay men, but verbal bashing by others who claimed we didn't exist. You had to watch yourself, what you said, who you said it to within the gay community.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 06:04:24 PM by brokeback_1 »
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Offline Jack too

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #412 on: April 30, 2007, 06:05:11 AM »
Questions for 1975-1980

12.)  Also in the 70s gay pride marches became more common - did you attend any gay pride marches in the 70s?  What do you remember from them?

In NYC the parade is (or was, at least) called the Christopher Street Liberation something, though, of course, it was what has come to be called a "gay pride march."  I find that term misleading, but it seems to have stuck.

There were groups and individuals that I found offensive or ridiculous.  And I was quite snooty about who I thought should and should not be allowed to march.  However, my own attitude about this went against my own very, very, very deep feelings about the servility and cravenness of conforming to impress straights.  I and all my friends (with one exception) had been out before the Stonewall events, and the whole purpose of being out was to have self-respect and not kiss straight ass.  I could not long sustain my Auntie Tom opinions in regard to the parade.  This was a process that took several years for me to go through, and I am grateful that I did not turn my back on the event as I was sometimes tempted to do - I think it would have been a major set-back in freeing myself from some of the more repugnant aspects of white heteronormative socialization.

The parade in NYC in the beginning started in the Village and ended up in Central Park - in the early days it was still a very Sixties affair.  After a few years the direction of the parade was reversed and it started uptown and marched down Fifth Avenue to Greenwich Village, and there was a street festival over between Hudson Street and the Hudson River.  By this point many thousands of people were participating, and they participated in many ways - and, as I said, some of which I was rather snooty about.  The marchers and the crowds watching numbered in the many tens of thousands and it got bigger every year.  By the Eighties, I believe that it was the biggest or second biggest annual parade in the city.

This was the one event in the city where all kinds of gay people (and their clubs and organizations that were forming in these years) got together to celebrate themselves, and I came to feel that this was far more important than whether I wanted hang out with guys in ball gowns or chain mail, or gay Catholics, etc. etc.  I saw the event as a carnival celebration as much as anything, and I was quite happy to be a part of it. 

There were still numerous "opportunities" to conform one's conduct in such a manner as to impress the straights.

Being mainstream straight in America has always meant having to be tightass.  Being gay has on the whole had been a contrary counter stream, even when it was mostly furtive.  The Mardi Gras events in New Orleans and Mobile are somewhat tame straight attempts at bringing the Carnival spirit to America, and I was delighted that these annual gay events brought more of it into our lives.  And I still have many of the same snooty, above-it-all attitudes, but these marches are our celebration, and I am one very small part of our.

Certainly occasions like the Washington march were different, they were aggressively and pointedly political. I did not attend the Washington march, but the reports of it were thrilling.  I was sobered by what seemed the obvious attempts of the govt. authorities in D.C. to attempt to minimize their estimate of the size of the parade, etc.  This impression, along with the Anita Bryant campaign and similar ones, plus the Disco Sucks hate craze that resulted in anti-gay graffiti all over town convinced me that it was important not to duck down.  I could remember hearing the doggeral as a child: "If you're black, stay back; if you're brown, keep down; if you're white, you're all right!"  The last thing I wanted to do as a gay man was to knuckle under and return to what conformity to straights had meant to gay people too.   If some man wanted to get up on a float dressed in a shimmy dress and shoes with eight inch Cuban heels and shake his booty, I remained still a bit embarrassed but happy to walk with him.  And I do believe that it was good for me.

Jack 
Never trust anything called "the movement."

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #413 on: May 06, 2007, 06:57:36 PM »
I'm going to get around to answering my own questions here this next week.  Meanwhile, it seems like me and the two Jacks (well...maybe three Jacks) are the only people here - is this true?  If there are others reading here please say hello and let us know you are still here.

Here are two links associated with Sylvester and the Cockettes.  First a review of Sylvester and his career:

http://www.roctober.com/roctober/greatness/sylvester.html

And second a site from Sweet Pam of the Cockettes:

http://www.noehill.com/cockettes/links.asp

Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline brokebacktom

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #414 on: May 06, 2007, 07:09:42 PM »
I'm still here. Loving every minute of it, and learning alot too. YOU all know so much. KEEP up the good work.

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #415 on: May 06, 2007, 08:21:14 PM »
Thanks Tom!  Here is a site I came across while searching for information for another thread - this is the Gay History site for Iowa State University/Ames Gay History (who knew?):

http://www.brumm.com/gaylib/indexa.html
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline Mejack

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #416 on: May 06, 2007, 08:39:54 PM »
Michael, I read hear every single day!
Was beginning to think there was no gay history after 1970 though  ;D
Precious memories, how they linger,  how they ever flood my soul.
In the stillness of the midnight,  memories from the past unfold.

Offline michaelflanagansf

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #417 on: May 06, 2007, 09:15:42 PM »
Michael, I read hear every single day!
Was beginning to think there was no gay history after 1970 though  ;D

Sorry!  I've been running the book club for 'The Celluloid Closet' and it has been an extremely daunting project, so I haven't had as much time for this thread as I would like.  I'm planning on posting the list of books I stocked in the bookstore I worked at soon (although I may get a cramp typing).

And here are a few cross posts from 'The Celluloid Closet' thread - here's a review of 'The Boys In The Band' from when it was a play:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,838329,00.html

I've posted a review of the movie in 'The Celluloid Closet' thread as well.  And here is an interesting  article on gay film in the 70s from Time:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,841359,00.html
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. - Karl R. Popper

Offline BayCityJohn

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #418 on: May 06, 2007, 09:19:05 PM »
16.) As we discussed in the last time period discos were very popular during this period. Did you go to gay discos in your area? Do you have any particular memories? If you didn't like disco were there alternative spaces for people like you to get together?

Yes, I spent a lot of time in Discos.

Here in Michigan we went to Dutch's Bar in Saginaw. They had drag shows mostly up until 1978 when it became more of a disco. A small disco. But the place was packed every weekend. Dutch's is named 'Bambi's' now as far as I know. I don't go there anymore.

In late 1979 through mid 1980 I was a substitute DJ at Dutch's. I still have a lot of the records from that year. A good friend of mine was the regular DJ.

I also waited on tables in the bar, and on my first night and very first table I dumped a tray of 12 drinks all over a group of women. Dutch (the owner) felt sorry for me and didn't charge me for that tray, but he did make it clear that I would be charged if it happened again. The women were upset of course, but later on they gave me the biggest tip of the night.

There are 3 gay bars in Saginaw now, but back then Dutch's was the only one. Our closest alternatives were in Flint, 50 miles away, or Detroit, 100 miles.

Flint had 2 bars that I knew of. One was the State Bar on Dort Highway which is still there. They did have a small dance floor, but I wouldn't call it a disco. I'm not sure when it opened, but I believe in was in the 1930's because I remember their 50th anniversary in the late 80's.

The other bar in Flint was the 'Downtowner' on Saginaw St. I can't remember when it closed, but it may have been sometime in the early 80's. This was more of a disco and they had occasional appearances by disco artists. The only one I can remember was Viola Wills but I can't remember what song she sang.

Around 1975-76 there was a third bar that opened in Flint. Henry's Oasis. That place didn't last long.

That was pretty much what we had available. They were all dance oriented. My friend Mike tried to run a small gay bar in Saginaw not far from Dutch's in the late 70's, Club Jules. It was in a very bad part of the bad part of Saginaw and didn't last very long, less than a year I think. There was no dance floor, just a pool table and a juke box.

In June of 1980 I moved to Los Angeles. That was during the height of disco, at least in my mind.

There were a lot of disco's, but my favorites were 'Oil Can Harry's' in Studio City and 'Studio One' in West Hollywood.





Studio One was the place to be back then. It was the largest disco in Los Angeles. I spent every weekend dancing there for almost a year. Nothing can compare to this club. I don't know the dimensions of the dance floor, but I'm sure it held at least 1,000 people. I can remember performances by Thelma Houston, Sylvester, and Gloria Gaynor. A lot of celebrities would go there as well.


There was also a dinner theatre, the Backlot, attached to Studio One.

But my favorite spot when I wasn't dancing was next door to Studio One. The 'Rose Tattoo', a piano bar.

I'm surprised I can remember anything from that era. I was always very drunk by the end of the night, and usually high on LSD. I am not bragging about it, that's just the way it was for a lot of us back then.

What I do remember is all of the good friends I made back then, and how most of them were gone by 1990. There was not 1 friend that I had in Los Angeles that survived.

Offline milomorris

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Re: Gay History -- How We Got Here
« Reply #419 on: May 06, 2007, 09:44:01 PM »
I'm going to get around to answering my own questions here this next week.  Meanwhile, it seems like me and the two Jacks (well...maybe three Jacks) are the only people here - is this true?  If there are others reading here please say hello and let us know you are still here.

I'll give these questions a shot. I remember some of these events, but during the years covered I was 11-16 years old so my thoughts, feelings, and opinions were not those of an adult.

Milo
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

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