What good book have you read lately? (New or old)

[playitagain]

Josephine Baker & Frida Kahlo? What a fascinating thought.
Yes I agree, st women could perhaps spice up a bit.
But st men? I don't imagine them jacking off together very much either, and certainly even less when they are writers. Go figure Sartre giving Camus a hand, Hemingway exposing his family jewels to Fitzgerald, Joyce c***ing in Beckett's presence...
I rather think there is something playful in gay men which st's (men AND women) perhaps lack. I don't know. I'm not sure.
And I wonder whether EW is still into jacking off whilst on lecture tours, together with his landlords.

But tell me more about this new EW book. This time, it seems to be a "real" autobiography. Did I get you right that the tone is a bit "depressed" or "depressing"?

Yes there is an enviable playfulness among gay men.  Who can deny it?  Betcha Herman Melville said to N. Hawthorne:  You and Sophia?  That's a life?

ROTFLMA over Sartre/Camus etc., all these guys so serious. 

Well, Ingmar.  This will be by far, more than you want to know.  But I welcome the opportunity to talk about EW.

The episode with my pal and EW was not too long ago.  I'm sure EWs still at it.  He cracks me up.  I love the guy. 

Seriously, when I encountered EW first was in his Burning Library, and I was stunned by his brilliant social commentary and willingness to take risks and throw open new doors of inquiry and passion.  Also, he is from uppermiddle class midwest culture, same as me, in fact I know his voice and setting well, Chicago, Evanston, Lake Forest, etc., as well as Gr. Village.  His tone and language and desperation to survive a killing culture was similar to my own.

In fact, I was to discover that A Boys Own Story was closer to my own young life as a st. woman, than anything else I had read (aside from Bros Karazmov haha and I aint kidding) -

I read The Beautiful Room is Empty a number of times - the title alone breaks yr heart.  Thought Farewell Symphony was written on amphetimines and he admittedly could not begin to touch upon his own heartbreak - still, the people in this book are well known and portrayed without pity - an act of essential graciousness and this recounting is of cultural importance.  Thought The Married Man very beautiful, and the Skinned Alive stories also.  That he circles around and around and reprises the same material in diffrent keys is well worth THE RISK in terms of artistry and defining what it is to be human

Genet biography.  Effing brilliant!  Fanny: boring! 

The new book, My Lives.  Who else can write with the elegance of Henry James, lifting you into transcendence, and he's got you! - and so there you are, with him, when suddenly he's snuffling away in some guy's crotch - while whining about his avois de pois, etcetcetc.  Cracks me up!

I do believe his brilliance is become dimmed, whether from grief, fear of his own death, or the Princeton gig (Joyce Carole fucking Oates and her clucking over him, etcetcetc.).  Seems to me in this book he is doing a bit of name dropping, well, why not, he's been doing it all along under the guise of funny names that are easily distinguishable.  Seems to me he is also acknowledging friendship and help, for the record, that is, for posterity which he, through his own brilliance and kindness certainly deserves!  he attracted the creme of the crop!  My Lives seems dry and bitter.  But how can one not be bitter in the face of the devastation of a creative community and the death of those beloved to you. 

So.  More than you want to know, maybe.
-

[playitagain]

FYI on Ed White: http://www.edmundwhite.com/

thanks   helpful commentary.

[heavysigh]

Heavysigh, that's an impressive list. Time Traveler's Wife has been recommended by several people.  I did read Running With Scissors and Known World.  Complete opposite ends of the spectrum!

Have you (or has anyone) ventured to read Europe Central, by Vollman? It's historical fiction of sorts, but unlike anything I've read before.  It's also the most difficult fiction I've ever read (of course, I haven't tried Ulysses or Finnegans Wake or Gravity's Rainbow yet...)

Naw, I just love to read! It's really just about my favorite thing to do and has been ever since I learned how to do it. You're right, those books were on opposite ends of the spectrum but I loved both of them and went on to read all of Augusten Burrough's books. (Loved Life of Pi too, along with many of you.)  I forget to list Cold Mountain too, which is one of my all time favorite books. I have such an admiration and respect for writers ecause while I absolutely love to read, I can't write fiction at all. Kudos to those of you who can! You make the world a better and more interesting place.

[ingmarnicebbmt]

ROTFLMA over Sartre/Camus etc., all these guys so serious. 
Well, Ingmar.  This will be by far, more than you want to know.  But I welcome the opportunity to talk about EW.
So.  More than you want to know, maybe.

Playitagain, will answer tomorrow, when I shall have a lot more time, to your detailled, fascinating post. Enjoyed it thoroughly, but prefer a "profound" answer to a hastily scribbled one, so: give me a bit more time.

[playitagain]

ROTFLMA over Sartre/Camus etc., all these guys so serious. 
Well, Ingmar.  This will be by far, more than you want to know.  But I welcome the opportunity to talk about EW.
So.  More than you want to know, maybe.

Playitagain, will answer tomorrow, when I shall have a lot more time, to your detailled, fascinating post. Enjoyed it thoroughly, but prefer a "profound" answer to a hastily scribbled one, so: give me a bit more time.

Hope I didnt rattle on too much - truth is, the only other White aficionado is my before mentioned friend who has become a bit loathe to discuss EW's life and times because he now has a "personal" relationship - honestly!  But I was very pleased for the opportunity to tell you how much I love this writer
 
I'll be glad to hear of your own responses and relationship. 

[jayiijay]

A couple of weeks ago I posted having read "Geography Club" by Brent Hartinger, who is known for his novels for teens.  I since read "The Order of the Poison Oak" and "Grand & Humble" and reiterate my strong impression of his work.  The latter is actually quite different than the first two, as it explores the nature of self in an M. Night Shyamalan kind of way.  I will repeat what I previously said about Brent to encourage forum members to check out his work:

"Brent is the author of numerous novels and plays, and helped found Oasis, a support group for gay and lesbian young people in Tacoma, Washington.  Brent and his partner writer Michael Jensen are also great friends of this website, as the latter authors "AfterElton" and provided extensive pro-Brokeback coverage of the outrageous Oscar upset.  I hope Forum members to read Brent's work and will encourage teens to do the same.  They promote tolerance and understanding in a most entertaining, unpretentious manner.  I believe everyone will relate, gay or straight.  thx"

[jayiijay]

TOMS:

Gravity's Rainbow is among my all-time favorites, and so is Ulysses.  Check out the "favorite passages" thread and you'll see I posted several from Gravity.  Pynchon is tough, but funny and rewarding.  I don't pretend to get half of it, but somehow when I finish his books, I kind of feel like I've kind of gotten the point and am exhilirated.  Mason Dixon, V and Crying of Lot 49 are a;sp  remarkable.  The latter is a good place to start, it is more readily accessible than the others, then move onto Gravity.  As for Ulysses, in my opinion it is best navigated with a "reader", or even audit a course at a local college to get the most out of it.  And make sure you re-explore Illiad & Odyssey first, it helps.  As for Finnegan's Wake, I forced myself a couple of years ago, but yikes, it was too much.  Just because I didn't get it does not mean it wasn't brilliant, but I don't know, it felt too show-offy without purpose but to show-off.  Ulysses is decipherable; more than that, it invites the reader in.  Wake kind of keeps you out it is so difficult, surely Joyce must have known few could relate.  IMO, Ulysses, Portrait of the Artist & Dubliners are the crux of Joyce, Wake isn't worth the energy, there are so many other amazing reads out there.

Is Europe Central worth reading?  thx

[TomS]

Jayiijay, Europe Central is worth reading for it's originality of style and vision.  As another reviewer put it (paraphrasing) it's like re-learning everything we thought we knew about history.
On the other hand, it is difficult reading, the subject matter is painful and vividly described, very long (700+ pages) and so obscure that I would not recommend it unless you have the time or interest to read it slowly.  A good knowledge of Europe in WWII is helpful (I wish I knew more) as is some knowledge about the music of Shostakovitch (who is a major character in the book, and whose music I listened to only after reading it).
I doubt I would have heard of Europe Central if it had not just won the National Book Award for Fiction. 
(And darn me for using the approval of an Award to expose myself to new fiction!  I guess awards are meant to preserve what's best in culture, but it rarely seems to work that way, does it?)

[jayiijay]

TOMS:  Thanks much.  I don't know whether you intended or not, but you have made Europe Central all the more intriguing to me for every "warning" you gave.  Will read it this summer.  Currently on Cormack McCarthy's Blood Meridian - it is brilliant, on another level up from All The Pretty Horses, etc.

As for awards, yeah, they often get it wrong, but they sometimes get it right too.  Moreover, even they don't pick "the best", usually the winner is pretty good, more in literature & theater these days than film - though most film critics pick pretty good things, it's really just the film Academy that has become virtually obsolete as a barometer of anything but mediocrity (I'd say for 15 years now, maybe 20, with Crash as the topper, the first time they chose a truly bad film, compared with the numerous mediocre ones they've recently selected, e.g., Driving Miss Daisy, Gump, Braveheart, English Patient, Titanic, Shakespeare, Gladiator, Beautiful Mind, Chicago...none of these have been great, but none horrible either, imo, I see virtues in each - but not this year). 

I loved the turn-of-the-century greatest lists.  Sure they were debatable, but they gave me some great ideas on what to see & read.  For example, in the Modern Library 100 Greatest books, I had read about half, and now have read the other half.  About 40 of the 50 or so I had missed were incredibly worthwhile, some now ranking among my favorites.  Certainly the list was imperfect (no Pynchon), but it was pretty darn good, and nothing was "bad".  That lead me to the Radcliffe 100 (which had Gravity's Rainbow, etc.), so more wonderful books.  And so on.  thx

[ingmarnicebbmt]

Good afternoon, playitagain, here I am - as promised. A bit late, I know.

My EW experience started definitely with the Genet biography. I had been into Genet during my whole adolescence and youth and bought a copy when visiting Portland, Oregon, devouring the book in a few days.
I discovered a new, brillant writer and an important voice of gay literature. And a good researcher (I'm a musicologist and a biography writer myself...)

I then read everything he ever wrote.
Burning Library and Skinned Alive were very influential for me, and I read with a lot enthousiasm the Trilogy (which you don't want to be called 'autobiographical'). Whatever. As much as I liked the two first volumes, (and I agree, their titles are excellent!) I found the last (F.S.) a bit depressing in spite of its merits.
The Married Man is, without any doubt, his best book, the most moving too. Although I must say, as his Paris books prove, he is better describing cultural phenomenons, observing sociological shifts, topographical particularities than "inventing" an authentic, believable story. That's why TMM is so good: it's based on his own life, strong, vulnerable, and very conventional at that - straightforwardly told. That's why FANNY is so disappointing: It's somehow not his period and not something he really went through. He's at home when he talks about New York, Paris, gay trends, he is wonderfully cruel when describing gay stereotypes - and God knows there are many (too many).
The Proust book I found it difficult to read: almost too naïve, and as a Proust connaisseur I found it a bit too "light" and not serious enough.
Now I'd like to see how he has moved on in the new book you mentioned. Will it resemble "Palimpsest", the magnificent, witty, and highly ironic "memoirs" by Gore Vidal? Will it be at the same level as my favourite books by Felice Picano, Alan Hollinghurst (both authors I admire...), or at that of EW's earliest books.
Some years ago I got the impression that he's simply writing too much and too fast and found his style at time a bit 'burned out'.
Hope that has changed...
Would like to meet him personally and get the opportunity to talk to him for a long while, because I have lived in Paris for a very long time, partially simutaneously to him (1990-2002 for me), know people who met him sometimes, but I would not necessarily dream of wanking around with him or even exchange b***jobs. It'd be a discussion between writers and helpless francophiles like myself, a discussion about the qualities of French lovers, French cooks, French c***s maybe.

I was shocked when I saw how incredibly fat he became in recent years, on author's photos.
I understand he is living with a young sci-fi writer, is that true? Or no longer true?

So if you love to read EW, you should also read Ned Rorem, but you've certainly done that already. Rorem  = As good as it gets in highly sophisticated, sociological, aesthical and yes, gay, writing. The quintessence of cultivated snobbery.

Keep our exchange on, if you wish or like.
Bonne nuit, Ingmar

(BTW, I'm a German living in France.)

[ImEnnisShesJack]

Our Endangered Values by Jimmy Carter.

Changed my opinion of the man.  And opened my eyes to what's going on in the US!

[john john]

I have Lawrence Durrell?s Alexandria Quartet and Marcel Proust?s Remembrance of Things Past somewhere in my garage. Are any of you familiar with either one of these works? They may be next on my reading agenda.

One of my favorite posters on the old Salon Table Talk board had the signature line, "Life isn't getting any longer and Proust isn't getting any shorter."

Isn't the whole work 10,000 pages, or something obscenely daunting like that?

They say it's worth it. Better be. Quite the commitment.

(I've also read that the more accurate translation of the title is "In Search of Lost Time"--which I think I like better.)

I've read Proust 's novel twice. It was my life support IV line through my youth. Yes, it is a very demanding but magnificent novel.
It gets your brain really working. In a nutshell (impossible!) it is the story of the narrator's journey leading to the writing of the novel you are reading. 
It's ground breaking stream of consciousness style is difficult but addictive. While reading it you end up feeling you are in someone Else's mind and looking through his eyes. I wonder, even to this day, who I would be (for better or worst) had I not read it.
It opened my mind. It made me love art even more. It changed my view of life. It gave me hope. Years after reading it is still with me.
Most of us know how it feels not to be able talk about our passion for BBM with people around us.
"In Search of Lost Time" was the same for me.

[annabel]

I can't say this was a particularly good book, but the title was great.  Someone gave it to me for mother's day one year.  It was called "I was a Better Mother Before I  had Kids"  Great title, so-so book.

[playitagain]

Hello Ingmar, wherever you are: Paris, Cannes, etc.  When I was teenager I had a recurrent dream of entering the IND subway at Eighth St in Gr Village and ending up in the Metro in Paris. I finally made it, many years later, one ecstatic week in June!

Thanks for heads up re: Ned Rorem.  The Paris Adonis.  A beauty.  I am interested in "beauties"  (Jake?)  Joy of Gay Sex vol one and two had a chapter on Beauties that was edited out in the third edition.   Not PC?  What do you think?  I was moved by the writers, Silverstein, and White, in their concern about these men and how they were to save themselves from being consumed. 

 I have not, frankly, gotten over Apollinaire dying soon after being trepanned for a brain injury during wartime.  What does this have to do with "beauties".  I dont know.

EW says that he began writing for heterosexual women.  If I were to be in conversation with him, and I may write him, one day, I would like to know more about this.  His view, of course, changed.  By the way, I think he would be very amenable to meeting or conversation with you.  As he has said, he is "easy" and as is the Yahoo EW chatgroup (I didnt stay, very boring) seemed to agree, all you had to do was whistle.

Ive read Andrew Holleran, the wonderful Dancer from the Dance, and the very sad Beauty of Men.  Other writers you have mentioned, I have not - csnt take too much new reality, who said that, Eliot, I guess - 

My Lives I feel is not what you would like it to be, nor what I wanted it to be.  Is he "burn't out" = by grief, age, dismay, etcetc. 

Still, it is an engrossing read despite the flaws.  I forgive EW his flaws because he loves much    Like Genet, he holds up all that is human as worthy. 

Love the guy.

Thanks for conversation!  I know NO ONE (asisde from my above mentioned friend) who is interested in White. 

[Carissa]

I took "The Dreyfus Affair" out of my library yesterday and read the whole thing.  I thought it was very interesting and good.