Second Night in the Tent

[Desecra]

I'm reading all your posts with interest.  You've really made me question whether I think the SNIT fits with the characters in the film (even though I don't think it does fit with the book at all).    I think I said, that yes, I can see it fitting, but I think that's partly because it's there, so I have to MAKE it fit.

The reason it can't fit with the book is that they didn't embrace face to face on the mountain, and their sex was quick and rough with no words spoken (almost the opposite of the SNIT!).   And that allows for Ennis to avoid facing something that he can't deal with at the time - that he has the hots for Jack (rather than having sexual relief with him because of the lack of women).   So the big difference the SNIT makes is taking that aspect away - I get that.   Ennis knows he has the hots for Jack, and that that they aren't good friends.   And other parts of the story have been changed to support that (particularly the motel conversation).   I have to leave that aspect aside when considering whether the SNIT fits with the film characters, and think whether this more knowing, more aware Ennis would have this more tentative, romantic sex instead of the straightforward, matter-of-fact sex that I think I expect of him.   

I don't FEEL that it fits, but it does kind of make sense.   The rougher sex the night before is all about Ennis exploding with a pent-up desire which he's been trying to avoid it.   The FNIT and the morning after get that out of his system  - the deed is done and he somehow comes to terms with that.   The SNIT is like another beginning, as if they're discovering each other for the first time as lovers, even though they have had sex ... and of course, they are sober and aware.

It's likely that Ennis's limited sexual experiences (which might only have been kissing, but I'd guess not full sex) were with Alma, when they were "courting".   My guess is that they would be more like the SNIT than the FNIT (partly because he wouldn't be overcome by passion and desire, but would be more tentative and exploring).  It's even possible that Alma took more of a lead than Ennis, if she was attracted to him.   Perhaps it makes sense that this second time, when Ennis knows he wants Jack from the start, that he'd automatically repeat what he's done with Alma, with Jack?   After all, he later repeats what he's done with Jack, with Alma.  That's in the film too. 

I was also thinking that film Ennis has that quality of being like a horse with a "low startle point".  Right from the beginning, he seems awkward, anxious, avoiding eye contact - all due to his background, but indicating somebody who might need to be more gently "managed" and seduced.   That's at odds with the FNIT, but I think that in the film the FNIT is different - it's not the beginning of "how it would go", but more like a one-off.  In the book, Ennis seems more relaxed, and they happily spend a night together without incident (at the beginning of the summer) - the FNIT seems to come out of the blue (although we know that it has been built up to).   In the short story, there is no first night together and Ennis is a bit avoidant right from the beginning, as if he's aware of the risk.   I also thought that Jack's soothing behaviour in the SNIT fits with the conversation beforehand, where Jack is reassuring Ennis.  Jack grabs Ennis's left hand again, but this time ends up holding his face instead.   

[janjo]

I don't look at the (movie) Reunion kiss as being "one among the many" at all - just look at the way they kiss! It's a kiss that has four years of longing and love in it. Yes, in the movie, they had kissed before, and maybe many times - we're not sure. But the Reunion kiss is by far the most passionate kiss we get to see and therefor it's totally convincing. It doesn't lose it's importance because of the SNIT kiss. Quite the opposite, I would say.

I agree with you totally about this, Sonja, that is exactly how I feel.

[janjo]

Thank you, Jess. I agree with you that cultural conditioning was influential in Jack and Ennis’s understanding of what was acceptable male behaviour, but thought that to imply male posters here were similarly affected by such conditioning (simply because they might have said that SNIT was “out of context”) was somewhat unwarranted.

In an earlier post here I mentioned that DCF members were a self-selected group, and that those who posted on the SNIT thread were a sub-group within that group.
That men on the forum might not choose to discuss SNIT needs to be considered—as does the issue of the small number of male posters who actually participate on this thread—before such a claim could be justified.

Your reference to “us ladies,” above, suggests to me that you believe female posters are more likely to accept SNIT as being “in context,” and I suspect, as contributors appear to be predominantly female, that it’s the main reason male posters choose not to participate here.

Putting it another way, it could be said that men are reluctant to participate simply because their opinions will run counter to the prevailing (i.e. female) opinion about the inclusion of SNIT in the film, especially when discussion of the scene has not only polarised along gender lines, but that men's opinions are dismissed due to their “cultural conditioning.”

In other words, males who agree that the scene is contextually relevant to the narrative are not “culturally conditioned.”
Their opinion is accepted as valid simply because it coincides with that of “the ladies.”

It would be interesting to know whether any females on DCF similarly felt that SNIT was “out of context,” but I doubt that that will ever be known.
This is an issue which could be discussed in detail, Jess.

Although the film is "based" on the story, the inclusion of SNIT (a sentimental addition unwarranted by Proulx's throughly unsentimental narrative) took the story into another realm altogether.

That the film might be seen to be “better” than the story because of that inclusion is, in my opinion, a point worthy of debate.

"Us ladies" were never constrained, as a gender, to be tough and not to feel things, or show emotion, as men of a generation or two or three back were likely to be.
It doesn't mean that in some families women weren't "conditioned" too, because they were, but it was more generally applied to men.
I don't think it pertains now, in my experience, observing my sons in law, etc.
I can't generalise on posters here.
Desecra and I for instance, are both ladies, but we saw the SNIT in quite different ways, and it was her that proved to be right about the book.
Also as many of the men here are gay, then they would have, through necessity, more experience in defying convention.
So "us ladies" may tend to see things in a similar way, or not, and either way, we look at life that way as an expression of toughness and survival.
That tenderness, compassion, and facing up to reality, is essential in a womans role as "nominated carer" in many families.

[BlueJeanJeannie]

Ah, all this talk about SNIT... damn, it makes me want to see the film again! *grabs BBM DVD*     

[Sara B]

Ah, all this talk about SNIT... damn, it makes me want to see the film again! *grabs BBM DVD*     

And a box of tissues?

[BlueJeanJeannie]

And a box of tissues, yeah 

[andy/Claude]

Having recently had my amplifier overhauled I reckon it might be the right time to watch the movie again. The detail on blu-ray is truly astounding.

[suelyblu]

                                                                       ^^^^

It was you Andy that made me pay good money out (at that time) to get blu-ray    You said you could see the weave of Jacks' shirt ......... I said I could actually smell the coffee !!

Blu-ray really makes a difference and BBM is the perfect film to watch on it.

[andy/Claude]

So glad when I can help anyone part with money, Sue.

[BlueJeanJeannie]

It can't be that no-one posted in this thread for over a year - almost two. It just can't be.

This picture / screen cap was included in a recent online article. So, to remind ourselves...:

[Sara B]

Always good...

[ingmarnicebbmt]

It can't be that no-one posted in this thread for over a year - almost two. It just can't be.
This picture / screen cap was included in a recent online article. So, to remind ourselves...:

Good that you insisted, Larissa.

 

[George Jones]

That picture is so beautiful. You can see the pure release and comfort that Ennis feels in Jack's embrace. Also the longing for someone who will love and take care of him  so so sad.

[Ministering angel]

Such a controversial scene in many ways. It deviated dramatically from the short story, in which Ennis was able to shove down any thoughts of being queer for most of the summer (up until the August night and then beyond). In the film his torn emotions begin at FNIT. Despite being a devotee of the story I totally love SNIT. Stunning and beautiful.

[Sara B]

It's so long ago now... But I'm fairly sure that SNIT was central to my succumbing to Brokeback Fever. The virus perhaps?   And much as I usually like faithfulness to an original, the film has a life of its own and has moved and influenced thousands of people - well probably millions? - worldwide, and I would think that SNIT may well be at the core of this. It showed  the tenderness that can exist between men that many people had not given thought to before.