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Author Topic: Gay Cinema  (Read 726264 times)

Online ingmarnicebbmt

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4425 on: October 09, 2020, 02:04:36 AM »

I'm looking forward to watching it.
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Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4426 on: October 09, 2020, 12:44:22 PM »

So, I just wrote this post and then saw how long it is...for various reasons I was going to delete it, then I thought what the heck I wrote it, I'll post it.

BOYS IN THE BAND
SOME SPOILERS

I watched this last night. I hadn't seen any other versions, so came to it new - I like your review, Lyle, and would go along with it. It was very much a theatrical experience rather than cinematic, but none the worse for that. I thought it went a little flabby in the middle, but perked up again with the telephone calls. The “we all hate ourselves” motif was quite depressing, and seeing Michael (Jim Parsons) becoming more and more bitchy and hateful, but at least there was an upbeat, even if just for now, conclusion for some of the couples.

A little too long, but enjoyable.


Glad you watched it, Sara!

The "we all hate ourselves" motif you mention brings to mind something from college. Should I write about it?

Were you able to see that 30 minute documentary, too? There's an interesting passage where the play's author, Mart Crowley, is asked about the play's reputation over 50 years and one thing he says is that if you ask older gay people my age they'll say, "Oh, we're not like that any more," and he then says, but if you ask younger gay people about it they'll say "Oh, we're still just like that."

I can say that over time I've seen gay men, the same ones, react to it differently over the years. They'll hate it and find it depressing, because I think they feel it's a representation they want to think isn't pervasive, but over time they'll be more comfortable with it as a representation of parts of ones life, not the totality.

I was around 15-16 when the movie came out. I didn't know anything about the play. I did read parts of the newspaper every morning before I went to school while eating breakfast. I remember seeing the ads for the movie and telling my mother I'd like to see that. Just the ad made it seem like a musical or something. I had no idea what it was about. Now I wonder if she knew what it was about.

A few years later in college I read the play for some class I had. On hindsight I can see the "we all hate ourselves motif" for what it was, and is. Being different is hard to navigate, especially when you don't feel anything about your difference is wrong, but you keep being told you shouldn't be. That you are wrong. So you definitely have periods of doubt wondering why you're like this and society feeds you more of it. So when you have enough you act out. You can throw it back in their faces being sarcastic and biting--bitchy, you can make others feel as bad as you do or you might live in a fantasy world where everything else is avoided. And being gay isn't really visible to others like ethnic minorities are, so you might be around people that freely express how much they hate faggots or look down on them or make fun of them. Right in front of you.

When I was in college in the early 70's there was a Campus gay group (I wasn't familiar with it) and they had put up some flyers for a meeting or something on various buildings/classrooms around campus and someone wrote a vicious and demeaning letter to the campus newspaper, which they published in the letters section, about such perversion shouldn't be allowed etc. and other things. It caused a real furor and discussion, so much so that a subsequent edition of the paper was devoted almost entirely to this uproar. This person who had written it turned out to be someone I knew. He lived three rooms down in my dorm on the same floor. There were 8 or 9 dorm rooms on my floor and 1 Resident Assistant dorm room which was sort of a person who kept things in order on each floor and facilitated problems that might occur. There was such concern about what this letter had caused that we had to have a floor meeting in which this issue was discussed and hashed over with a representative of that gay campus group.

Years later I realized that must've been the first person I ever actually knew who was gay. And I didn't like him really. Interestingly, though, I did like the guy who wrote that hateful letter. And in my opinion, I think he was a big closet queen. Even at the time one or more said about him that they "think he doth protest too much." He could be very charming, he was verry amusing, and he was quite smart. He won some contest as a Boy Scout and as the representative of the state of New York, he was sent to Washington, D.C. and met President Nixon in the Oval Office. He showed us the pin Nixon gave him and his impression of how Nixon entered the Oval Office to meet them was hysterically funny!

I guess I could ramble on about this whole story etc., but that dorm meeting (I of course said nothing, I was not out) made me feel worse about being gay...I didn't like that group representative, and the meeting showed what so many others felt like about gay people out in the open. So, that self-loathing and "hating yourself" motif ran through my days in college off and on here and there, for a time after that, but not consuming it.

In fact, a year or more later I had a semester in the English department where I took a playreading class (not out loud as a group, we just read them and discussed). I was not having a good semester. I didn't like most of the classes I had.  Struggled to do my assignments, I don't think I knew at the time why all that was the case, but I may have been depressed about the course of my life and such, lost interest in a lot. (If I explain further a hundred more paragraphs would be written.) The final thing we had to do for that class was to pick a play on the teacher's list (there were about 15 choices) and read it and write about what we got out of it, according to the outlines of how we discussed plays all semester and at the last assigned class, turn them in.

I was avoiding my workload that semester, I had so much to catch up on. I was pretty overwhelmed. It was the last class where we were to turn in these papers and I hadn't even done it. At the beginning of the class the teacher informed us, after a brief talk about a subject that was planned for a couple minutes, we would hand in our papers and be dismissed for the year for that class. I thought, at that point, and maybe had been planning, I'd fill out forms for getting an incomplete grade, meaning if that was approved for the reasons you stated, you could finish the work you missed later on, and then get a grade.

At the last minute, I took out a sheet of paper and wrote my name and ID info on it. One of the plays on that list was, in fact, Boys in the Band, which I'd already read. For whatever reason I had in that moment, that line from the play came into my head. I wrote down the name of the play and author on that blank sheet of paper, and underneath it I wrote: "If we could just learn not to hate ourselves quite so very much."

As everyone turned in their final papers, passing them forward to the front, people's dozen pages or more, type-written essays in colored binders, I put my one page hand written piece of paper in the mix, with the feeling that was all I could do at that point and we all left. Later, I thought I'd have to either do the paperwork for an incomplete and finish the work later, or he'd give me an F and I could accept it.

Our final grades of the year were always sent to us (mail!) wherever we asked them to be sent after the semester. Except for one summer, I always stayed at college during the summer and had a work-study job on campus. So, imagine my surprise the day my semester grades for all my classes arrived and for this class I received an "A".

 :o

I always wanted to ask that Professor why he gave me an A. My work the entire semester was not exemplary and maybe not even adequate. And my last submission...?  I wondered if he was gay himself and somehow that made a difference. (I'd never thought about any such thing in the class itself.) At the time I felt I'd dodged a huge bullet and didn't want to shake up the apple cart in case it was a mistake.

That semester was the most difficult one I had there. The rest of my college experience I look back at with much fondness and good memories.

 

Online Sara B

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4427 on: October 09, 2020, 01:14:16 PM »
So glad you didn’t delete it, Lyle. I always enjoy your reminiscences - and it’s very pertinent. I’m going to watch the documentary now.

That A grade - so intriguing!

Offline tfferg

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4428 on: October 09, 2020, 01:46:56 PM »
So, I just wrote this post and then saw how long it is...for various reasons I was going to delete it, then I thought what the heck I wrote it, I'll post it.


Glad you watched it, Sara!

The "we all hate ourselves" motif you mention brings to mind something from college. Should I write about it?

Were you able to see that 30 minute documentary, too? There's an interesting passage where the play's author, Mart Crowley, is asked about the play's reputation over 50 years and one thing he says is that if you ask older gay people my age they'll say, "Oh, we're not like that any more," and he then says, but if you ask younger gay people about it they'll say "Oh, we're still just like that."

I can say that over time I've seen gay men, the same ones, react to it differently over the years. They'll hate it and find it depressing, because I think they feel it's a representation they want to think isn't pervasive, but over time they'll be more comfortable with it as a representation of parts of ones life, not the totality.

I was around 15-16 when the movie came out. I didn't know anything about the play. I did read parts of the newspaper every morning before I went to school while eating breakfast. I remember seeing the ads for the movie and telling my mother I'd like to see that. Just the ad made it seem like a musical or something. I had no idea what it was about. Now I wonder if she knew what it was about.

A few years later in college I read the play for some class I had. On hindsight I can see the "we all hate ourselves motif" for what it was, and is. Being different is hard to navigate, especially when you don't feel anything about your difference is wrong, but you keep being told you shouldn't be. That you are wrong. So you definitely have periods of doubt wondering why you're like this and society feeds you more of it. So when you have enough you act out. You can throw it back in their faces being sarcastic and biting--bitchy, you can make others feel as bad as you do or you might live in a fantasy world where everything else is avoided. And being gay isn't really visible to others like ethnic minorities are, so you might be around people that freely express how much they hate faggots or look down on them or make fun of them. Right in front of you.

When I was in college in the early 70's there was a Campus gay group (I wasn't familiar with it) and they had put up some flyers for a meeting or something on various buildings/classrooms around campus and someone wrote a vicious and demeaning letter to the campus newspaper, which they published in the letters section, about such perversion shouldn't be allowed etc. and other things. It caused a real furor and discussion, so much so that a subsequent edition of the paper was devoted almost entirely to this uproar. This person who had written it turned out to be someone I knew. He lived three rooms down in my dorm on the same floor. There were 8 or 9 dorm rooms on my floor and 1 Resident Assistant dorm room which was sort of a person who kept things in order on each floor and facilitated problems that might occur. There was such concern about what this letter had caused that we had to have a floor meeting in which this issue was discussed and hashed over with a representative of that gay campus group.

Years later I realized that must've been the first person I ever actually knew who was gay. And I didn't like him really. Interestingly, though, I did like the guy who wrote that hateful letter. And in my opinion, I think he was a big closet queen. Even at the time one or more said about him that they "think he doth protest too much." He could be very charming, he was verry amusing, and he was quite smart. He won some contest as a Boy Scout and as the representative of the state of New York, he was sent to Washington, D.C. and met President Nixon in the Oval Office. He showed us the pin Nixon gave him and his impression of how Nixon entered the Oval Office to meet them was hysterically funny!

I guess I could ramble on about this whole story etc., but that dorm meeting (I of course said nothing, I was not out) made me feel worse about being gay...I didn't like that group representative, and the meeting showed what so many others felt like about gay people out in the open. So, that self-loathing and "hating yourself" motif ran through my days in college off and on here and there, for a time after that, but not consuming it.

In fact, a year or more later I had a semester in the English department where I took a playreading class (not out loud as a group, we just read them and discussed). I was not having a good semester. I didn't like most of the classes I had.  Struggled to do my assignments, I don't think I knew at the time why all that was the case, but I may have been depressed about the course of my life and such, lost interest in a lot. (If I explain further a hundred more paragraphs would be written.) The final thing we had to do for that class was to pick a play on the teacher's list (there were about 15 choices) and read it and write about what we got out of it, according to the outlines of how we discussed plays all semester and at the last assigned class, turn them in.

I was avoiding my workload that semester, I had so much to catch up on. I was pretty overwhelmed. It was the last class where we were to turn in these papers and I hadn't even done it. At the beginning of the class the teacher informed us, after a brief talk about a subject that was planned for a couple minutes, we would hand in our papers and be dismissed for the year for that class. I thought, at that point, and maybe had been planning, I'd fill out forms for getting an incomplete grade, meaning if that was approved for the reasons you stated, you could finish the work you missed later on, and then get a grade.

At the last minute, I took out a sheet of paper and wrote my name and ID info on it. One of the plays on that list was, in fact, Boys in the Band, which I'd already read. For whatever reason I had in that moment, that line from the play came into my head. I wrote down the name of the play and author on that blank sheet of paper, and underneath it I wrote: "If we could just learn not to hate ourselves quite so very much."

As everyone turned in their final papers, passing them forward to the front, people's dozen pages or more, type-written essays in colored binders, I put my one page hand written piece of paper in the mix, with the feeling that was all I could do at that point and we all left. Later, I thought I'd have to either do the paperwork for an incomplete and finish the work later, or he'd give me an F and I could accept it.

Our final grades of the year were always sent to us (mail!) wherever we asked them to be sent after the semester. Except for one summer, I always stayed at college during the summer and had a work-study job on campus. So, imagine my surprise the day my semester grades for all my classes arrived and for this class I received an "A".

 :o

I always wanted to ask that Professor why he gave me an A. My work the entire semester was not exemplary and maybe not even adequate. And my last submission...?  I wondered if he was gay himself and somehow that made a difference. (I'd never thought about any such thing in the class itself.) At the time I felt I'd dodged a huge bullet and didn't want to shake up the apple cart in case it was a mistake.

That semester was the most difficult one I had there. The rest of my college experience I look back at with much fondness and good memories.

Thank you for sharing this, Lyle.

From memory, I think I was disappointed back then in The Boys in the Band. While I was very troubled for years, I didn't hate myself. The play didn't speak to my experience.

I was not out, but I felt bad knowing there were people who judged me as sissy. I was hurt by a barbed comparison with a literary character in my high school magazine. I didn't have a circle of gay friends. Naively, I didn't know that some of the people in groups I was involved in were gay.

One nasty memory was in 1969 or 1970 of being invited to dinner at their apartment with her and her husband by a colleague. She seemed kind in the way she supported a motherless student, but after dinner she said homosexuality made her feel like vomiting.



Online Sara B

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4429 on: October 09, 2020, 03:57:14 PM »
I’m afraid I’ve heard the odd comment like that in the past, Tony. Though nowadays I think it would only be said if the speaker was pretty sure their hearers shared their views.

Online Sara B

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4430 on: October 09, 2020, 03:58:03 PM »
The Netflix documentary on TBITB is very good.

Offline brian

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4431 on: October 09, 2020, 05:47:10 PM »
I’m afraid I’ve heard the odd comment like that in the past, Tony. Though nowadays I think it would only be said if the speaker was pretty sure their hearers shared their views.
I have good friends. He was student in my first year of teaching, was on the trip to NZ and became a Geography teacher so we kept in touch. He must be almost 70 now.  I often have dinner with him and his wife when I return to Sydney and they both visited me here in Dunedin a few years ago, had afternoon tea at my home and I took them to dinner. Unfortunately I was flying overseas the next day so could not show them around for the 2 days they were here. I was disappointed. On two occasions (including that dinner here in Dunedin) I have mentioned something about a gay person and he has made a vile sound as if he wants to be sick. He is not religious. I think some people are just blind.

Offline brian

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4432 on: October 09, 2020, 05:57:04 PM »
I do not think I have ever seen TBITB although I have read about it. I did not know it had been a film. I see the film was in 1970. I have always remembered that the first gay themed film I ever saw (and I went surreptitiously to a movie house a long way from home) was Fortune and Men's Eyes and apparently that was 1971/2. In 1970 I underwent treatment to be 'cured" and became engaged. I broke the engagement in 1971 and had my first sexual experience at age 27 so was completely closeted. Only my mother and perhaps my sister knew at the time. I will make a point of seeing it if it is screened in Dunedin. I no longer sneek into such movies  ;D

Offline gattaca

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4433 on: October 09, 2020, 07:06:22 PM »
...
I wrote down the name of the play and author on that blank sheet of paper, and underneath it I wrote: "If we could just learn not to hate ourselves quite so very much."
...
I clearly recognize and emphasize with your description of events many years ago. It is only when people are comfortable with you, usually after a few drinks or beers, that they will lower their facades, guards and walls a bit and reveal their truer selves. Sometimes, it only takes a seemingly innocent comment to reach that core. Sadly I have heard similar utterances from people I had admired and respected. It's always disturbing, disappointing and sometimes heartbreaking.  Sadly, it has happened often and still occurs to this day.

As for your English professor's final grade - sometimes having the talent to distill a work into a succinct single sentence is gifted and just perhaps he recognized it.  V.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 02:55:47 AM by gattaca »

Offline killersmom

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4434 on: October 09, 2020, 10:41:35 PM »
I do not think I have ever seen TBITB although I have read about it. I did not know it had been a film. I see the film was in 1970. I have always remembered that the first gay themed film I ever saw (and I went surreptitiously to a movie house a long way from home) was Fortune and Men's Eyes and apparently that was 1971/2. In 1970 I underwent treatment to be 'cured" and became engaged. I broke the engagement in 1971 and had my first sexual experience at age 27 so was completely closeted. Only my mother and perhaps my sister knew at the time. I will make a point of seeing it if it is screened in Dunedin. I no longer sneek into such movies  ;D

The film being discussed here is the 2020 film version of the Broadway play, with the same actors from the Broadway play, based on the 1970 movie and is showing on Netflix.

Offline brian

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4435 on: October 09, 2020, 10:48:17 PM »
I realise that but was considering whether I had ever seen TBITB on stage or screen. Considering the date, unlikely. As I do not have Netflix or anything other than free to air TV, it is unlikely I will have a chance to see this version either. I took a free month trial of Amazon Prime and watched one film 'The Atonement' which I had seen in the cinema. There does not seem much point in my taking out any subscription.

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4436 on: October 17, 2020, 07:14:44 AM »
NewFest: 12 Films You Shouldn’t Miss at This Year’s Virtual LGBTQ Festival

By Ryan Lattanzio and Jude Dry


Like nearly every other film festival in this wild year, NewFest, New York’s leading LGBTQ+ film festival, is going virtual for its 2020 edition. Running October 16 through 27, the event boasts more than 120 new movies you can watch at home from anywhere the United States, plus plenty of scintillating conversations, virtual soirees, and more in celebration of this year’s festival storytellers. Below, IndieWire rounds up 12 must-see films to get your NewFest journey started.

In additional to the virtual offerings, a few in-person events can be enjoyed from the convenience of your car. The opening night film this year is a special drive-in presentation of Francis Lee’s “Ammonite,” starring Kate Winslet and Saoirse Ronan, taking place at the Queens Drive-In in Corona Park. For New Yorkers, this is your chance to catch the buzzy romantic drama before it opens theatrically on November 13 from Neon.

Also receiving drive-in screenings throughout the festival are Alan Ball’s gay road dramedy “Uncle Frank” starring Paul Bettany, and Matt Fifer and Kieran Mulcare’s “Cicada” alongside a series of Brooklyn-based short films. Otherwise, you can attend the festival entirely from your living room, or wherever you’re streaming movies at home these days.

Other special events include an all-trans table read of “Brokeback Mountain,” a panel with the director and select cast members of Netflix’s “The Boys in the Band,” panels on LGBTQ+ icons and issues, filmmaker and cast Q&As throughout the festival, and more.

To get the best possible NewFest experience this year, you can purchase an all-access virtual pass for the bargain price of $95, or buy individual streaming tickets for $12. Follow along with the festival’s daily schedule for times and dates for each film.


https://www.indiewire.com/2020/10/newfest-lgbtq-film-festival-12-must-see-movies-1234593099/

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4437 on: October 19, 2020, 04:03:22 PM »
Kristen Stewart on making the Yuletide super-gay in Happiest Season

By Joey Nolfi October 16, 2020

It's a balmy July afternoon in Los Angeles, but Clea DuVall's edit bay teems with the Christmas spirit. The filmmaker is baking wintry magic into the final cut of her new romantic comedy Happiest Season, and while the usual trimmings of a holiday romp are present — familial high jinks, ugly sweaters — DuVall is also mounting a seasonal revolution with the film by making the Yuletide super-gay.

"I'm writing from my own place of truth and telling the story from my own perspective," the queer actor-director says of the project, co-written with fellow Veep alum Mary Holland. Happiest Season (in theaters Nov. 25) stars Kristen Stewart and Mackenzie Davis as Abby and Harper, a gay couple traveling to the latter's suburban home for her conservative family's annual Christmas party. Harper hasn't come out to her parents (Mary Steenburgen and Victor Garber), and the mounting pressure of repressed identity threatens to cool the pair's red-hot connection.

"I've spent Christmases with partners whose parents didn't know.… I've been 'the friend' at the family function," DuVall, 43, says. The film delivers a universal message of living up to "killer" expectations of one's kin — only intensified by the couple's sexuality. "On a journey like coming out, you have no idea what's going to happen or how people will react, and it's scary," DuVall explains. "There's a part of your life that changes once you do."

https://ew.com/movies/happiest-season-fall-movie-preview/

Offline Gazapete

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4438 on: October 20, 2020, 08:10:39 AM »
I arrive too late to Lyle's post about TBITB, which I just watched. I would have also given you an A.  :-*

Offline gattaca

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Re: Gay Cinema
« Reply #4439 on: October 20, 2020, 11:47:56 AM »
I hit this cover recently with MIAOS + Adele.  I thought rather well coordinated and polished.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=resH12M9Uus

Stay safe, stay alive.  Peace!