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Author Topic: Awards Aftermath - Part 2  (Read 310808 times)

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1665 on: July 28, 2019, 11:19:21 AM »

That is so true. It would probably take our thoughts to hating "them" and not to the sorrow and angst we do feel that it happened to "Jack," and that this type of thing was/is out there for others like him.

Offline gattaca

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1666 on: July 28, 2019, 01:51:34 PM »
Precisely.  Lee knew how to kick us in nads with the "thoughts" paging thru Ennis's head while keeping us SO focused on was important - what Ennis was thinking and feeling at that very moment.  V

Offline B.W.

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1667 on: August 12, 2019, 05:22:35 PM »
https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jake-gyllenhaal-heath-ledger-brokeback-mountain-gay-jokes-a9021806.html

"Gyllenhaal also revealed the impact the role had on his career, revealing: “It opened tons of doors. It was crazy. It was amazing. It’s defined my career in different ways.”

But he also spoke of the film’s legacy having a far greater purpose than his own career, adding that he quickly realised that “[the film] is bigger than me… It has become not ours anymore. It’s the world’s.”





Jake's words are so true.  I definitely think that "Brokeback Mountain" helped open doorways for his acting career, something I'm sure he'll always be grateful for.

Offline colorado_jack

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1668 on: August 23, 2019, 11:30:03 AM »
Jake's words are so true.  I definitely think that "Brokeback Mountain" helped open doorways for his acting career, something I'm sure he'll always be grateful for.

That is true about his career, but he also stated that if he (and Heath) knew the number of people who would see the movie, he likely would not have taken it on.  He expected the movie to only be shown in art houses for a small audience.



edited to fix quote
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 04:38:47 PM by CellarDweller115 »

Offline gattaca

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1669 on: August 24, 2019, 06:34:34 PM »
Fate has a strange way of flipping the tables on you.  I wonder where his career would be if he had NOT taken BBM?  V.

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1670 on: August 24, 2019, 06:54:41 PM »
That is true about his career, but he also stated that if he (and Heath) knew the number of people who would see the movie, he likely would not have taken it on.  He expected the movie to only be shown in art houses for a small audience.

Fate has a strange way of flipping the tables on you.  I wonder where his career would be if he had NOT taken BBM?  V.


The original plans were for the movie to be in art houses, if I'm remembering correctly.  I'm glad it ended up going wide and becoming the huge hit it was.

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1671 on: July 09, 2020, 02:43:16 PM »

This article was mentioned on the 7/7 TDS edition:

Queer Directors Say 'Brokeback Mountain' is Still the 'Quintessential LGBT Movie' 15 Years On, But It Will Soon Lose Its Crown
https://www.insider.com/brokeback-mountain-still-classic-lgbt-movie-15-year-anniversary-2020-6

We could discuss many things from that article here if anyone wants to.

I'll start with a couple things like this, posited in the article:

"Moonlight" did what "Brokeback Mountain" couldn't and became the first-ever queer movie to win best picture at the Academy Awards.

Both of these things still make no sense to me, BBM not winning and Moonlight not losing.

"The infamous Oscar loss actually helped the legacy of the movie."

Who's to say? It's quite possible. I always recall a quote from Al Gore's speech, that he said his father always quoted to him, when Gore didn't succeed in the 2000 Election: "Sometimes a defeat, as well as a victory, can shake the soul and let the glory out."

"Brokeback Mountain," while not exactly tailored to queer audiences in the way that a modern TV show like "Pose" is, is so direct in its depiction of queer love and the dangers of being gay that it feels absolutely authentic.

This is why I don't think BBM will lose its crown, at least not very soon. For a movie to "have a crown" it has to appeal to a wide audience. If films are more tailored to specific audiences, gay people from the various LGBTQIA+ banner will not all be rallying around the same film, but one that is more tailored to their own "letter".

Queer cinema did later get its "revenge," when "Moonlight" beat "La La Land"

If "revenge is a dish best served cold," then Moonlight winning succeeded. It left me cold.

James Wilby, commenting on Maurice says, "What "Maurice" does so well that "Brokeback" perhaps doesn't is that it shows its queer characters enjoying their sexuality. "Brokeback" is so consumed by presenting Jack and Ennis' tragic repression that it forgets to allow the characters to ever enjoy their own desires as queer people, which is something LGBTQ audiences are crying out for and "Maurice" delivers.

This is true, but if we see Maurice and Jack as the accepting ones, and Clive and Ennis not-accepting, to accomplish this "enjoyment", Maurice goes off with someone else, Scudder. Jack does not. So you can't really fault the BBM story for something that isn't inherent in the story.  Yes, we'd all like to see those kinds of movies, too, and one of the examples used is:  "Call Me By Your Name" is the summer holiday to "Brokeback's" harsh, cold, slog. Realy, a hard, cold slog? I'd like to point out to the article author the final "happy?" scene in Call Me By Your Name with Elio. If that doesn't break your heart, even a little...

Discuss.

Discuss?

Offline gattaca

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1672 on: July 09, 2020, 05:48:57 PM »
^^^^ good article.  Valid points.  In summary, he's implying as more GBLT characters and films are surfaced, BBM's importance as a touchstone will fade into our memories.  Maybe, maybe not.   Remember what I said about temporal understandings can also sweep the other way...and that's essentially what he's saying.

"This status as the Academy Award's most hard-done-by movie was further ratified when "Crash" director Paul Haggis said that his film didn't deserve to win best picture as it wasn't the best movie of the year.

All of this, however, just helped to build up a network of support and a sense of loyalty to "Brokeback Mountain." The furore following "Brokeback's" loss helped to give the film a longer life, and kept in many conversations for far longer than it probably would have been if it had just quietly won as expected."

"But "Brokeback Mountain" will always be a game-changing movie, and it will always be remembered as a movie that was, at the time, revolutionary and bold and powerful, even if brighter movies do come along."

I know what BBM did to me.  I can honestly say that if it had come out 20 years sooner, it would have changed that many more lives.

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1673 on: July 11, 2020, 12:20:18 PM »
I know what BBM did to me.  I can honestly say that if it had come out 20 years sooner, it would have changed that many more lives.

When I read what you wrote here, I suddenly was picturing Heath and Jake as 6 and 5 year olds (which they'd have been in 1985) playing Jack and Ennis.
Like a Bugsy Malone version of the story. Heh!

I'm thinking back to 1985 and what LGBT themed movies were in our consciousness then. Very few. Maurice and Parting Glances hadn't even been out yet!

1985 brought us Kiss of the Spider Woman, which I think is a great movie, and later musical, but it doesn't ever seem to appear on any lists of great LGBT films. It did get 4 great Oscar noms, Picture, Director, Lead Actor and Screenplay, but no below the line nominations in the craft categories, which BBM also failed to attract and are the parts of the film making world, as Ian McKellan remarked, that are/were more homophobic. (McKellan had remarked he didn't think (he might even had said "knew") that BBM wasn't going to win Best Picture because all those people who work on films out in the valley wouldn't vote for it. I know the costume design Oscar nominations usually go to movies with more showy and period flavor, and films with a predominance of women fashions, but you'd think costume designers would love to have nominated Brokeback Mountain where an actual "costume" was a central part of the plot element in the film. Plus, it might be a stereotype, but you'd think there'd have been a lot of gay costume designers in that acadamy branch, no?

I think to a lot of gay people, the fact that BBM didn't win Best Picture, especially because of the amount of awards and approval that it had garnered up until then, and also to the fact that no other movie came out that year with a legitimate chance to compete with it. No one was even hinting that Crash, which actually had premiered in 2004 at a film festival (if only it had been released in 2004) but had been released in May of 2005, was on anyone's radar as a legitimate best picture contender that fall when the movies started rolling out. It was as if they were seriously looking for something else to choose and eventually got enough people to go along with that idea. (Remember: the Golden Globes hadn't even nominated it for Best Picture at their awards.) It really felt like a summary dismissal of BBM as illegitimate. It was like the question that year wasn't which picture should win, but rather, which film do we want to win over Brokeback Mountain?

And all these year's later the way that played out is still a raw emotion.

Offline gattaca

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1674 on: July 11, 2020, 02:10:52 PM »
^^^^ +1  LOL... you got the meaning.  There were not really many "out-there" US-based films during the 1980's.   These I mostly remember but a few I got help from Wikipedia.
 
-> Tootsie (1982)  - I do not consider this a gay film at all...   (Saw, remember)
-> Victor/Victoria (1982)  (Saw, cannot remember)
-> Making Love (1982) (Saw, mostly forgotten)
-> The Times of Harvey Milk (1984) (Saw, mostly forgotten)
-> The Color Purple (1985)  (Saw, remember)
-> Kiss of the Spider Woman (1985) (Saw, mostly forgotten)
-> My Beautiful Laundrette  (Saw, mostly forgotten)
-> Parting Glances (1986)  (Saw, mostly remember)
-> Maurice (1987) (Saw, mostly forgotten)
-> No Way Out (1987) - another I do not consider a "gay film"  (Saw, remember)
-> Dead Poets Society (1989) (Saw, remember)
-> Longtime Companion (1989)  (AIDS crisis was blowing up) (Saw, remember)

Kiss of Spider Woman with Hurt was way too sophisticated for most American audiences. Maurice, The Times of Harvey Milk, Making Love and Longtime Companion were too "gay to be accepted"  I recall the "controversy" around Making Love and probably being the youngest person in the theater much more than the film itself.

So that's pretty much it compared to BBM, just 20 years later which hit that outta the ballpark.  I still remember seeing BBM previews and thinking oh my... this is going to be challenging.

The above films are a mix of implications and some are clearly out, "yeah that's a film about gay people." But nothing with the impact of BBM is in that list.  While "Dead Poets Society" had some strong elements and I saw it 3-4 times just trying to read it better, DPS didn't have those nagging, staying implications. I could read his death in a number of ways.  Longtime put AIDS front/center and tried to be sympathetic from a "it's a gay plague PoV"  I remember so many straight people saying such awful things. (And well now even those same folks then have not escaped CV19 this time). None of these films have the impact BBM, had it been made 20 years earlier, would have then.  Hope that makes sense.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 03:21:43 AM by gattaca »

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1675 on: July 12, 2020, 12:18:34 PM »

Are you sure you have the right title for No Way Out being a gay film? The one I know from 1987 is:
No Way Out is a 1987 American neo-noir political thriller film directed by Roger Donaldson and starring Kevin Costner,
Gene Hackman, Will Patton and Sean Young. You say you don't consider it one... I'm confused about this entry.

You also have MILK listed as 1984. You're referring to the documentary The Times of Harvey Milk, I assume.

I'm kinda surprised that you cannot remember is Victor/Victoria. I haven't seen it in a long time, but I do remember it. It came around about the same time as Partners, where Ryan O'Neal, a straight cop, and a gay police clerk, John Hurt, pretend there a couple to solve some crime in a gay community. I only saw it once in 1982 nd thought it was very offensive. I wonder what I'd think now. Recently I remember it got brought up for some reason and a friend was more kind about it saying it plays on stereotypes, but it's amusing. When I just looked it up to make sure I had the year right I was surprised to see it was directed by James Burrows, who's a legend in the TV sitcom world.

Making Love...gay people wanted that movie to be something it wasn't: good. So those around at the time have a kinder recollection of it, seeing it in a theater with other gay people and it was a film others were talking about. But as well-intentioned as it was, it was pretty dull. I probably liked it more because it had scenes filmed in a few locations that I knew. The one thing I remember most about it is when Kate Jackson was on the Tonight Show to promote it and when they started talking about the plot of the movie she remarked something like it dealt with homosexuality, and there was some negative reaction in the audience about that.

SIDEBAR: It's really surprising that you can find almost anything on youtube and I just thought I'd look. And, yes, I found Kate Jackson's appearance from 1982 on the show!  I did not remember that it wasn't Carson on that night, but rather David Brenner. The studio audience throughout the whole segment is rather boisterous and talkative. When they get to the topic of the movie in the last 2-3 minutes of the video, it's brought up almost like a secret. David brings up her movie to talk about, she asks him if he knows what it's about, he says he does, she gives an explanation of it in generic terms before she says it involves homosexuality. After the audience reaction by a couple guys or something, Brenner tries to make him look bad by joking about him. It's almost like no one wanted to say what the film was about. Or maybe NBC didn't? Who knows. But...the things you can find. Something I remembered from 1982, thirty-eight years ago, I saw again and can compare my memory to the actual thing I saw once. While interesting, it can also be spooky.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niojl_Ak_AM

Maurice: I love this film, it was my favorite gay themed film until BBM came out, but since it was a favorite for 20 years I now say my favorite gay film "happy ending" is Maurice, "sad ending" is Brokeback Mountain, heh!

If you haven't seen it in a long time may I suggest revisiting it? I have a dvd version of it that includes almost 30 minutes of deleted scenes from the film! (Not inserted into it, but as an extra.) In order to shorten the film, a lot of what's deleted is a subplot with a young relative who visits. But there are a few minutes of other scenes with Scudder that are included and it was great to see these. You can also watch them with director commentary about why they deleted things. James Ivory also remarks that the only reason they have all this footage is that someone who worked on the film recorded them all onto a videotape. Ivory says it was usual to just destroy all the extra film footage not used and that didn't end up in the film, until a market for it as bonus material on DVD's came to be. Film stock in and of itself is hard to keep and often ages poorly without expensive storage facilities so it is (was) destroyed.

Offline Gazapete

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1676 on: July 13, 2020, 03:03:47 AM »
Almodovar was already around in the 80s, but only well known in Spain.

Offline gattaca

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Re: Awards Aftermath - Part 2
« Reply #1677 on: July 13, 2020, 03:53:23 AM »
^^^^
Thanks!  My bad on referring to "The Times of Harvey Milk"  as Sean Penn's MILK (2008).  I saw both of them.  I corrected my entry. 

Before I posted, I scanned Wikipedia's listing of "gay films of the 1980s as a memory refresher."  The old brain ain't what it used to be!  I listed the ones I know I saw. BTW, I never knew there were that many made. Many entries I'd never heard of much less seen and many were foreign films.

Yeah, I was a bit shocked to see "No Way Out (1987)" listed.  Then I recalled there was the crazy guy who had feelings for the Navy man (Costner).  So he kills the lover (Young) and we go from there. Googled and damn yeap... that character was IDed as homosexual which is how NWO made the list. I did not consider it a "gay film" b/c that undertone was so  low-key I'd almost forgotten about that character but to be accurate.  All I remembered was Navy man being framed for murder of his lover....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT-related_films_by_year

Yeah, I recall "Making Love" being severely panned in general. You were being nice with "dull." 

Maurice is a good film and very worth seeing. Idyllic. Anything with Ivory's fingerprints on it is usually a good bet.   

Peace and stay safe out there. 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 04:00:42 AM by gattaca »