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Author Topic: BBM General Discussion 2  (Read 591060 times)

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1050 on: November 30, 2010, 08:02:11 AM »
On NPR's Fresh Air today there was an interview with Anne Hathaway. She not only discussed the most recent movie, but also her motivation in BBM during the phone call with Ennis, specifically about the tire iron.

http://www.npr.org/rss/podcast/podcast_detail.php?siteId=7060034





Why don't those of you who have heard it go ahead and discuss it?  this is not a spoiler situation.  No need to be mysterious, and some people may not be able to hear it.

I'm just curious but no time to listen.
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline Sara B

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1051 on: November 30, 2010, 08:24:08 AM »

Why don't those of you who have heard it go ahead and discuss it?  this is not a spoiler situation.  No need to be mysterious, and some people may not be able to hear it.

I'm just curious but no time to listen.

The part about BBM is fairly near the beginning (at about 9 minutes). Fritz posted a different link which worked for me - here it is:

This link might be better. I know Kim listened to it in France.

http://www.npr.org/2010/11/24/131566903/anne-hathaway-from-princesses-to-passion



The main thing was that AL made Anne aware of both possibilities without telling her what his own belief was: the tire-iron or the tire rim.  She played it both ways and doesn't know how the tapes were finally merged by Ang in the film. She said that it was "important for the ambiguity to remain - it is the strength of that scene and what is heart-breaking about it".

She also spoke of her gay brother, and how her family left the Catholic church when he came out.

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1052 on: November 30, 2010, 11:06:50 AM »
Thanks Cally!

That is really great, IMO -- she finally is speaking about it, and she found a way to express it without giving any answer.

Even if she has a definitive position, what she believes would not change the ambiguity (although some might believe it somehow influences the truth of the story) but even if Lureen were a real person, she may or may not "know" the truth -- just like Ennis, she lives with some open space.
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline kathy

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1053 on: December 01, 2010, 05:03:23 PM »
**I am really confused.  In the past I've read many times that AH admitted she spoke to Ennis with the fact that she knew she was lying about the "tire rim accident".

Honestly, I did read this several times.  She stated she played the scene as "Lureen knew" she was lying to Ennis.**

kathy 
p.s.  I've also read that AL showed the gay-bashing murder scene in quick flashback because he did not want to "knock the audience over the head with the murder of Jack"; that's also why he removed the scene, which is still shown in the trailer, of the mean guys (later to be gay-bashers) at a garage seeing Jack.
"Tell you what...the truth is...sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it".

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1054 on: December 01, 2010, 05:09:15 PM »
kathy -

I have never heard that Anne Hathaway discussed the scene with Heath that way, or that she ever hinted, in any way, what she was thinking.  Whenever I have heard her talk about it, she gave the same answer she gave on Oprah -- basically that she didn't answer whether Lureen knew or not.

Which IMO is right, even if the actress plays it one way or the other, that doesn't change the ambiguity.

Wasn't there something about Heath being willing to talk to her on the phone during filming -- because their scenes were filmed separately?  But it's not really a scene she and Heath acted together.

(what you wrote about the tire iron scene, that is the same as I have heard as well. )
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline kathy

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1055 on: December 01, 2010, 05:20:21 PM »
**Well, I have read it many times going yrs. back.  And also - Heath offered to (and did ) call AH (Lureen) during the scene with help.  She admitted that, and also stated that was very kind of him to do that.  He was on one end; and she was on the other end during the scene.**

kathy
Maybe things I did read are all turned around now; it seems like BBM is getting "picked on" lately by more than a few here.  Even in the "quit" discussion, I've never read such things as anti-Jack or anti-Ennis as is being posted now regarding their life-long love.
Neither one would or could ever quit the other.** 
"Tell you what...the truth is...sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it".

tonydude

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1056 on: December 02, 2010, 01:06:23 AM »
Maybe things I did read are all turned around now; it seems like BBM is getting "picked on" lately by more than a few here.  Even in the "quit" discussion, I've never read such things as anti-Jack or anti-Ennis as is being posted now regarding their life-long love.
Neither one would or could ever quit the other.**  
 Kathy, hey there, good friend! Yes it does seem sometimes like someone may be anti-Jack, or anti-Ennis, in the various discussions.  I've noticed people can tend to sympathize more with one than the other, and this derives, perhaps, from their personal identification with different aspects of the two guys and their troubles.  That can sometimes lead to very strong opinions, but I haven't seen anyone abandon the love story itself.  Besides, if everybody agreed, the forum would shut down, as there would be very little more to say.
 You have always seemed to be in the idealistic camp, and forgive both of them their failures (as they generally did each other), and I love that point of view, but when a thread gets lively, somebody will always answer any post that may appear to be harsh or cynical, so, not to worry.
 Meanwhile, some of us are a bunch of romantics, aren't we  :) ?  I know I am.  But we are dealing with a writer who snookered us with grizzly bear attitudes, only to mop us all over the floor with what real love can be; and sometimes it isn't pretty.  And so the differing levels of anger, at times.  Those that seem subtly angry, are only so because they care.
 Don't be disappointed. Just keep posting about that true love that may have been shabby, at times, but rose above so many others.  And, oh, yeah.....I agree with you on your last line  :). That is a busy thread, too, and I'll try to keep up with it, as best as I can.

Offline Sara B

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1057 on: December 02, 2010, 01:55:33 AM »
^^^^^

Much what I was going to say, Tony.  I'm a romantic at heart too, and I have no harsh feelings about either Ennis or Jack, Kathy.  I accept that there is no happy ending, but I would dearly love to believe that Jack could never have quitted. However I'm also a realist, and can read the story objectively.  AP has created characters so cleverly that we can believe that they do have human frailties and that Jack could have been pushed too far.  But I think that part of the whole power of the story is that it's deliberately left ambiguous, as are the other points that we debate so passionately. That was why I was relieved that Anne Hathaway, in this interview at least, said nothing to counteract this when talking about the Phonecall scene - that AL had done different takes, some with with Lureen believing in the tire iron, some with the opposing point of view, and that she herself was not aware of how he finally put the scene together.

From a literary POV, I love the ambiguities (though I found them hard to take at first - in fact I didn't accept that they were there), and I want them to remain.

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1058 on: December 02, 2010, 03:52:06 AM »
Maybe things I did read are all turned around now; it seems like BBM is getting "picked on" lately by more than a few here.  Even in the "quit" discussion, I've never read such things as anti-Jack or anti-Ennis as is being posted now regarding their life-long love.
Neither one would or could ever quit the other.**

I've never found BBM getting "picked on"......people have different ways to view different topics.  It's what keeps discussion going.

They may be "picking apart" the story from different angles, but I've not seen any (in my opinion) that I would consider hurtful or disrespectful to the book or movie.

Offline janjo

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1059 on: December 02, 2010, 05:09:26 AM »
**Well, I have read it many times going yrs. back.  And also - Heath offered to (and did ) call AH (Lureen) during the scene with help.  She admitted that, and also stated that was very kind of him to do that.  He was on one end; and she was on the other end during the scene.**

kathy
Maybe things I did read are all turned around now; it seems like BBM is getting "picked on" lately by more than a few here.  Even in the "quit" discussion, I've never read such things as anti-Jack or anti-Ennis as is being posted now regarding their life-long love.
Neither one would or could ever quit the other.** 

Don't stress, Kathy. I've read or heard that about Anne and Heath and the phone call too. Although as usual I have no attribution for it.
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Offline janjo

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1060 on: December 02, 2010, 05:25:02 AM »
Re: Quit / No Quit:

We all love this film, we have been talking about it here for 5 years. Desecra and I have been "hammer and tongs" for a lot of that time on that particular thread. We have different interpretations of the ambiguities in both film and short story. We try not to take it personally, and have great respect for each other and the views we express.
I feel sure we would both like to find some undiscovered nugget in the text that unequivocally proves our point of view, but it isn't going to happen, so we both resort to being as persuasive as possible.
Because we can find no confirmation of our personal views we interpret the story from our own personal experiences and psychology and what we think is most likely to have happened.
It in no way reflects on our love for Jack and Ennis or on the story or film though.
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Offline fofol

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1061 on: December 02, 2010, 06:03:44 AM »
**I am really confused.  In the past I've read many times that AH admitted she spoke to Ennis with the fact that she knew she was lying about the "tire rim accident".

Honestly, I did read this several times.  She stated she played the scene as "Lureen knew" she was lying to Ennis.**

kathy  
p.s.  I've also read that AL showed the gay-bashing murder scene in quick flashback because he did not want to "knock the audience over the head with the murder of Jack"; that's also why he removed the scene, which is still shown in the trailer, of the mean guys (later to be gay-bashers) at a garage seeing Jack.

Totally agree here, Kathy - AH has been quoted many, many times in this Forum saying that she played the scene as lying to Ennis.  Everything else is speculation.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 06:03:30 AM by fofol »
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Offline Sara B

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1062 on: December 02, 2010, 08:02:45 AM »
Well, AH did say she played it both ways. Perhaps lying about the accident was what she personally believes - or what Ang Lee told her? 

Desecra

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1063 on: December 02, 2010, 08:47:52 AM »
Kathy, I remember reading that Anne Hathaway had said Lureen was lying, although I don't think she specified what Lureen was lying about.   I can't remember where I read it.   Anne does talk about the phone call in the Oprah interview from years ago - Oprah asked if Lureen "knew", Anne said that she did, but Jake G disagreed.   I think the question was about whether Lureen knew Jack was gay.  Anyway, it's interesting that the actors seem to have different takes on the story.

If you mean my posts on the "quit" thread, then you've misunderstood - I'm not anti either Jack or Ennis.   They do have flaws (their attitudes to women, for instance) but I have a lot of sympathy for both characters - perhaps slightly more for Ennis, because he I feel he was dealt a crappier hand to start with, in some ways.   I feel I'm defending them over on the "quit" thread.   In my view, the only problem in their relationship was homophobia.  I think we're told about two characters who would have had a lovely, happy life together if it hadn't been for that one factor - which ends up ruining both their lives.   They were deeply wronged by the society they found themselves in, in a personal way (Ennis blames himself at the end - we never really do see him, or Jack, blaming the world around them for being homophobic.   That's part of the tragedy, that they're brought up to accept and internalise homophobia). 

So I come at it from the opposite angle.  Their love is a given, the homophobia is the story.  I feel that if the problems in their relationship are ignored, then the homophobia is being ignored, and so it seems that they weren't so deeply wronged.  (For instance, Ennis's difficulty in accepting the relationship is about homophobia - it's because Jack's a man, not because he doesn't love Jack enough). 

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #1064 on: December 02, 2010, 03:22:18 PM »
I think I interpreted whatever I heard AH say about the scene in a way that seemed she was reluctant to really answer the question -- and even in the link we just shared, it seems she is still guarding the secret.

Heath being on the other end of the phone with her is not the same as Heath acting the scene with her, right?  He was not in a phone booth in a small town when AH acted her scene.  The two sides of the conversation were shot at different times.

I am only relating what I believed her to say -- if you all have heard different then maybe that's how it was -- but then it would seem to contradict what she just said in the interview.

*******

I appreciate everybody's explanation of quit/no quit but that conversation should go back to the designated thread.

Thanks
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty