The Ultimate Brokeback Forum

Author Topic: BBM General Discussion 2  (Read 508908 times)

Offline royandronnie

  • Regards from my bit of the Mountain
  • Global Moderator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 5138
  • They existed in our hearts, and always will.
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2685 on: August 06, 2022, 03:49:55 PM »
1.  What is it about Jack and Ennis that makes them unable to resist each other? Does Brokeback Mountain have something to do with it? If so, why does their passion continue well after they leave Brokeback?

 Seduced by the beauty of Heath and Jake, it's easy to reply to the first part of the question with "are you KIDDING?" but the boys were much less handsome in the story--Jack was a little man whose most notable features were curly hair, big thighs and big teeth, while Ennis was cave chested with a tiny torso and long bowed legs. What did they see in each other almost from the get-go? Well, clearly, both were living at least some version of their dream: being cowboys, so they admired that in each other. I would guess that they were drawn to the physical traits Annie describes, while Ennis, so deeply steeped in fear, admires Jack's courage as a bull-rider, one who has even won a (minor) prize. Jack for his part is drawn to Ennis' "uncommonly quick reflexes" and his "muscular and supple body made for the horse and for fighting." Each has something the other lacks: Jack has courage to put it on the line, Ennis is more the ideal cowboy type, with the height and strength Jack lacks; in the movie he is also all but silent like the classic cowboy.

Also, to put it starkly, they had major help from alcohol and isolation. Jack's previous summer, and, in the movie, his ready passing of the whisky bottle when Ennis admits his virginity, plus his sideways glance with "me neither," imply he has at least some m/m sexual experience, but whether he's Jake or the little buck-toothed guy, he's not going to start something that will get him beaten up without some help. The story emphasizes that both are very much aware of their isolation.

And quite clearly, a friendship develops. It's pretty obvious they are isolated personally, too: Ennis from the trauma of Earl, and Jack from his father's abuse. Did his father "know?" Was his father also gay and full of self-hatred, which he takes out on Jack? There's not enough information to guess, but either is possible. In any case, both would have been wary--Ennis of everyone, and Jack of anyone figuring out the truth. Forced together, they discover they like each other, "respectful of each other's opinions, each glad to have a companion where none was expected."

Brokeback Mountain had both everything and nothing to do with what happened between Ennis and Jack. The lengthy isolation gives them a whole month to build to the moment of discovery, and then weeks of opportunity to build on it, otherwise we may be sure nothing would ever have happened. In slightly different ways, both movie and story let them treat the idea of the Mountain as both a convenient shorthand for what they found up there--and as an excuse. When Ennis finds the Shirts, the moment is recorded with the haunting image of him seeking the scent of Jack which has long faded, leaving "only the memory of it, the imagined power of Brokeback Mountain of which nothing was left but what he held in his hands." Jack says "all we got is Brokeback," which says much the same thing: they've been riding along for 20 years on memories, but never got much further than the summer: only the Reunion was new, and a step forward. After that it was all just coasting. But Brokeback did have power: it set the scene, a harsh but genuine Eden, which allowed their love--as opposed to just their opportunistic sex--to begin. In that sense, Brokeback, or something like it, was essential.

The third part of the question, at least, has a simple answer: they expected nothing from their summer job, but time, isolation, friendship--and whisky--helped them to find love. Could they have loved each some other man? Maybe, probably. But they were each other's first, which is very powerful, and Ennis in particular would never have allowed any other man to get close. It was a "thing," and it was deadly. The passion continued because of the power of the summer, and its power in their memories. They expected nothing, and found love.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 08:37:23 PM by royandronnie »
"…in the family homestead of his dead lover, the shirts they wore while cowboying together long before: shabby denim and weary cotton, wrapped in each other's arms." Like this. Always.

He either fears his fate too much
Or his deserts are small
Who dares not put it to the touch
To win or lose it all

Offline frokes

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2686 on: August 06, 2022, 04:13:40 PM »
1.  What is it about Jack and Ennis that makes them unable to resist each other? Does Brokeback Mountain have something to do with it? If so, why does their passion continue well after they leave Brokeback?

These are some interesting questions. As for the film, I have the impression that Ang Lee worked on enhancing the differences rather than the similarities. Personally I lean on the perspective where Jack and Ennis are attracted to each other, and part of the reason is that they have different styles of communication. They learn about each other's patterns and keep a spark going. Brokeback Mountain seems to bring a sense of urgency (watching the sheep) but also a greater sense of freedom as they have more time away from people. When they leave Brokeback it seems it is a case of needing to know if they still have that passion. It has been a long time since I watched the film (just rewatched the reunion scene), but it seems to me that the film captures the passion really well.
“An affair with the G train,” he smirked into the floor, his eyes filling with tears. - The Bellwether

"Jack felt D hard beneath his hand. He leaned his forehead against D’s again. “You feel it,” he whispered, barely breathed, not really a question." - Zero at the Bone

Offline Gillian

  • Through the mirror blue
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 18983
  • Stay on these roads
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2687 on: August 07, 2022, 04:46:02 PM »
Some really great and thoughtful posts here in response to your questions, Chuck!

Seduced by the beauty of Heath and Jake, it's easy to reply to the first part of the question with "are you KIDDING?" but the boys were much less handsome in the story--

Strangely, as much as I have analysed the movie, short story, and the two characters, I have never pondered why they fell in love and remained so. I guess I must be a romantic at heart, believing that love has an unknowable quality that we will never be able to decode or fully understand. It just *happens*. I think both the movie and the short story portray this 'magical, mystical' quality well - maybe not least in that towards the end, Jack wishes he'd known how to quit Ennis - but love is a force of nature and as such, ungovernable - no reins on this one - whether you want to create it or destroy it.

It's much easier to see how a friendship developed, to identify the specifics of their situation and past histories that made them right for each other as friends. To me, Jack's non-judgmental curiosity and patience stand out, and Ennis' gruff little kindnesses.

Others have described all those character traits and circumstances really well above.  :)

Slava Ukraini

Offline B.W.

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2688 on: September 09, 2022, 02:09:55 AM »
Yes, very true, Vincent!

This was a great find, Chuck, I've always been somewhat curious about Dylan Tichenor, as he replaced the original editor, Geraldine Peroni.

The beginning of the above video says "Part 1," so I've been searching for Part 2. Here it is:

Editor Dylan Tichenor, ACE on Audience Interpretation in "Brokeback Mountain"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYxCGhkTzgs




I watch both parts of this interview with Dylan Tichenor.  How different do you think Ang Lee's film adaptation of "BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN" (2005) might have been if Geraldine Peroni hadn't passed away and was able to finish editing the production?
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 02:19:50 AM by B.W. »

Offline B.W.

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2689 on: September 09, 2022, 02:18:06 AM »
Are there other elements of Ennis and Jack's lives that you wish Ang Lee's film had explored that the movie didn't touch upon, or at least didn't touch upon as much?  I think it would have been interesting if there were scenes of the two men when they were growing up.  The relationships with their fathers when they were kids might have been interesting to see.  Both men were implied as being very fond of their mothers.  I imagine that like Jack's dad, Ennis's father must have been rather coldhearted but even more so.  I mean, taking your two underaged sons to see the mangled body of a murdered man who was alleged to be having a consensual romantic and sexual relationship with another man, what kind of sadistic person does that?  To even imply to two of your children that it was somehow "okay" that Earl had been viciously murdered for daring to have another man as his romantic partner. 



Even though Jack's dad is rather cold, for some reason, I can't imagine him putting Jack through that kind of experience.

Offline gattaca

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2848
  • How do you hide when you are running from yourself
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2690 on: September 11, 2022, 04:15:43 PM »
Stumbled onto this well done cover... the clips + "wicked game" ->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFXHXayeog

Pretty good too, just love the song -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylaUFK-23Sg

Some interviews of the cast during filming which I've not seen before -> https://www.youtube.com/c/H%C3%A9ctorSerranoMovies/search?query=brokeback%20mountain
« Last Edit: September 11, 2022, 04:48:03 PM by gattaca »

Offline killersmom

  • AUNTIE
  • Administrator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 108188
  • It's me.
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2691 on: September 11, 2022, 05:42:41 PM »
Stumbled onto this well done cover... the clips + "wicked game" ->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NFXHXayeog

Pretty good too, just love the song -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylaUFK-23Sg

Some interviews of the cast during filming which I've not seen before -> https://www.youtube.com/c/H%C3%A9ctorSerranoMovies/search?query=brokeback%20mountain

Hi Vincent. Thanks for the links! All very good.

Have you heard this one? It came up in my feed after I played the middle link you posted. I really like this one a lot as well!

https://youtu.be/av_nUf99Op0
"Life can only be understood backwards. Unfortunately, it must be lived forward."
... Kierkegaard

Offline gattaca

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 2848
  • How do you hide when you are running from yourself
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2692 on: September 11, 2022, 06:28:31 PM »
^^^ Nope not seen that one!  Very nice!   TY. 

It’s amazing to me that people of all ages are still posting and making vids and wonderful covers all these so many years later.   Consider the meaning and power of that….  V.

Offline killersmom

  • AUNTIE
  • Administrator
  • Obsessed
  • ******
  • Posts: 108188
  • It's me.
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2693 on: September 11, 2022, 08:42:10 PM »
^^^ Nope not seen that one!  Very nice!   TY. 

It’s amazing to me that people of all ages are still posting and making vids and wonderful covers all these so many years later.   Consider the meaning and power of that….  V.

I'm glad you like it. The music sounds so familiar. Back at the beginning of the forum, Jimmy turned me on to a whole bunch of new music and artists and this song sound so much like the type he had me listen to. I'm going to send him the song and see if he can remember the type and artist from back then.

A agree with your last statement. It totally is amazing that all these years later, these videos are still showing up.
"Life can only be understood backwards. Unfortunately, it must be lived forward."
... Kierkegaard

Offline B.W.

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2694 on: September 13, 2022, 03:02:02 AM »
The fan-made "BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN" (2005) music video "Jack and Ennis - Another Love" by the sxftvidz YouTube channel was really good.  If the film came out today, there would probably be even more fan-made music videos based on the movie, and there are still quite a lot of them on YouTube, especially older ones.  When something because popular, people want to parody it. 






 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylaUFK-23Sg


Offline B.W.

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1852
Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2695 on: September 13, 2022, 03:06:55 AM »
Do remember all those fan video parodies of the theatrical trailer to "BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN" (2005) that spliced images from other movies, especially buddy-themed movies, against the instrumental score and dialogue from the movie's trailer that were released in 2006?  Those were fun.