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Author Topic: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II  (Read 371262 times)

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3435 on: June 23, 2019, 01:18:53 PM »
1). In the scene right after killing the elk where J and E are sitting around campfire, the camera pulls back to give us a long shot of them facing the camera.  I noticed that J is taking an exaggerated man spreading stance where his right knee is touching E's left knee.  Looks like J is trying to get E more comfortable with a physical touch or is this just my imagination.  If so, indicates to me that J was planning on something like the FNIT and took it when the opportunity arose.


I wasn't sure what you were discussing, so I got a screen cap of the scene.



Unfortunately, it was a night scene, so it is not the best lit pic.  However, you can see what you are describing.  Jack's legs are spread much further apart than Ennis' are.

Things like this happen, and there may never be a full explanation......Jack is hunched over while he's eating.  Did his legs spread as  a result of his hunching?  Is it a camera angle that makes their legs look closer than they really are?  Is Jack trying to initiate some sort of physical contact?

Given what we know about Jack, it could be very possible that he's trying to initiate contact between the two.   After all, if he's willing to have intimate contact with guys, it would be fairly simple for him to touch Ennis' knee with his own.

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3436 on: June 23, 2019, 01:35:19 PM »
2).  At J's parents house, is J's mother wearing the same style clothes as J had in his closet?  She is wearing blue sweater (J's shirt) over a checked pattern shirt ( E shirt, barely visible).  Seems like, if true, she knew about J and E, was sending E a message, and explains why she wanted him to come back (assume J would tell mom about E and E represents the one love of her dead son).

Now this was a good observation, something that I never noticed.




There were many discussions in the past regarding the relationship of Jack and Ma Twist.  Many looked at her performance, and made the assumption that she know (or at least suspected) that Jack was gay, and when this man (Ennis) wanted to visit, that he was someone special to her son, and that she invited him to go to Jack's room in the hopes he would find the shirts.  Many based that on look she gives Ennis when he indicates he wants the shirts, and she gives him a bag to carry them in.  She also gives him a nod of the head.

Once again, you're correct.  Ma Twist is wearing three layers.  The first is a pattern of squares or circles.  Over that is a button down shirt with check pattern, with a blue sweater  over.  This definitely mirrors Ennis' check shirt, covered by Jack's denim shirt.

Coincidence?  Perhaps not.

Offline Gazapete

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3437 on: June 23, 2019, 11:51:15 PM »
4. I have always loved the symbolism of the spaces in the movie. If you follow Ennis' life, his living spaces keep narrowing through all the movie. First the mountain, then the ranch, the flat, the trailer and his life ends squeezed into a closet (which I don't think is a random choice at all).

Offline colorado_jack

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3438 on: June 24, 2019, 04:11:53 PM »
4. I have always loved the symbolism of the spaces in the movie. If you follow Ennis' life, his living spaces keep narrowing through all the movie. First the mountain, then the ranch, the flat, the trailer and his life ends squeezed into a closet (which I don't think is a random choice at all).

I also liked how the story of E's 20 years with J takes place over a single "day".  The opening scene shows truck with E headed to Signal Wy in 1963, with the sun about to rise (the beginning of his life with J), the ending scene (next to last actually) after E leaves the Twist ranch, he is driving truck and its sunset.

I also like how at the beginning where E is standing in front of JA trailer (prior to J arrival), a train goes by and we see E in "snapshots" indicating his life with J will be presented in episodes and not a continuous stream.

The more I watch that movie, the more amazed I am

Offline Gazapete

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3439 on: June 24, 2019, 11:01:21 PM »
I have to say, you are discovering details I would have never thought as intended!

Offline Gazapete

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3440 on: June 25, 2019, 03:21:41 AM »
I have been thinking about what you wrote about the closet staying visible behind Alma during the last scene. I don't think it's a coincidence, as you write, but my mind brought me in another direction. I see it like a contrast to Alma's life. She must be around the same age as Ennis was when he first met Jack, and just because of being straight her "love story" is going to run such a different path! Meanwhile E's love life is just there, hidden in the closet.

Offline colorado_jack

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3441 on: June 25, 2019, 07:43:11 AM »
Now this was a good observation, something that I never noticed.




There were many discussions in the past regarding the relationship of Jack and Ma Twist.  Many looked at her performance, and made the assumption that she know (or at least suspected) that Jack was gay, and when this man (Ennis) wanted to visit, that he was someone special to her son, and that she invited him to go to Jack's room in the hopes he would find the shirts.  Many based that on look she gives Ennis when he indicates he wants the shirts, and she gives him a bag to carry them in.  She also gives him a nod of the head.

Once again, you're correct.  Ma Twist is wearing three layers.  The first is a pattern of squares or circles.  Over that is a button down shirt with check pattern, with a blue sweater  over.  This definitely mirrors Ennis' check shirt, covered by Jack's denim shirt.

Coincidence?  Perhaps not.


When Ma Twist is putting shirts in paper bag, Ang Lee focuses on the sweater/shirts so its much more obvious

Offline colorado_jack

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3442 on: July 01, 2019, 01:56:02 PM »
After reading countless posts (and continue to do so, I have a lot of catching up to do), I have noticed a few "symbols" or maybe foreshadows that I haven't seen discussed.

1). When J complains to E that Aguirre doesn't have right to get them do something against the rules.  Sounds like foreshadowing the FNIT, where sex between men is against "conventional" rules.  It was J that initiated the FNIT by placing E's hand on his erection.

2). During the campfire discussion between J and E about the value of bull riding, E makes a comment about what's the sense of riding stock for 8 seconds.  When one looks at E during the FNIT, E mounts J and grabs onto his shirt with his left hand (with right hand free) and rides J for just about 8 seconds mirroring a "winning" ride. (noted in rodeo scene where Lureen is watching J's winning ride of 8 seconds).

3).  Also now understand how J and L got married (or had to).  Apparently, L became pregnant with Bobby in the back seat of her daddy's car (August 1966) and Bobby was born February 1967 (8 months prior to J/E reunion).  Never quite understood why L would marry J unless she had to, and explains why LD Newsume hated J for not only being a rodeo cowboy but getting his darlin daughter pregnant (of course LD would NEVER think L was the aggressor and that he helped create the situation by wanting the car back by midnight forcing E L to have sex without protection, no time to go to the drugstore)

4) Finally dawned on me what E was doing with half opened bottle of white wine in his fridge, must have been left over from Cassie's visit, but damn it must be old and stale since it was at least a year between ghosting Cassie/bus depot and that scene with AJ.  Hardly the drink to celebrate "my lil girl's getting married", but then again it's E, so what can one expect.  I guess white wine (which is all she seems to drink) is her way of rising above the tiresome beer/whiskey drinking crowd she has to deal with every workday.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 03:46:26 PM by colorado_jack »

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3443 on: July 04, 2019, 04:37:15 PM »
4) Finally dawned on me what E was doing with half opened bottle of white wine in his fridge, must have been left over from Cassie's visit, but damn it must be old and stale since it was at least a year between ghosting Cassie/bus depot and that scene with AJ.  Hardly the drink to celebrate "my lil girl's getting married", but then again it's E, so what can one expect.  I guess white wine (which is all she seems to drink) is her way of rising above the tiresome beer/whiskey drinking crowd she has to deal with every workday.

I have to say, i've never thought of that.   I always assumed that it was a hard liquor at first, which Ennis would drink, but would he offer hard liquor to Jr. to make a toast?

Offline colorado_jack

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Re: Ennis' and Jack's Relationship, II
« Reply #3444 on: July 05, 2019, 03:52:31 PM »
I have to say, i've never thought of that.   I always assumed that it was a hard liquor at first, which Ennis would drink, but would he offer hard liquor to Jr. to make a toast?
\

It was cheap bottle of white wine, which is Cassies drink of choice, she is always with white wine, probably the only wine drinker it Riverton.