Election 2008--CLOSED

[doodler]

and many other corrupt R's will still be there and favors will be granted".

What's with this? Being Republican makes you corrupt? Seems to me there are at least as many corrupt Ds, Obama not withstanding.

And deal making is the name of the game. You give a little in the hopes of getting a little more. That's politics. In fact, that's life.

Anyone who thinks an Obama administration can be... not will be, but CAN be... any different is delusional.

[Tahoelvr]

and many other corrupt R's will still be there and favors will be granted".

What's with this? Being Republican makes you corrupt? Seems to me there are at least as many corrupt Ds, Obama not withstanding.

And deal making is the name of the game. You give a little in the hopes of getting a little more. That's politics. In fact, that's life.

Anyone who thinks an Obama administration can be... not will be, but CAN be... any different is delusional.

Good one Doodler, yeah, there's no corruption on the Dem side. If you notice she said Pelosi and Reid first.  I get the pleasure of listening to Reid all of the time because I live in Nevada.

I would hope that the new administration would be different but I am not holding out hope for too much.  I guess I am becoming a true cynic.   And I am not picking on anyone here but Caroline Kennedy is helping to pick the VP?  Hmmmpt! Sound like good marketing to me. Camelot oh Camelot.  I am open to opinion but why her??

Back to being a pill.

[Dave Cullen]

Couldn't resist posting this:

thanks for finding that. i loved it. i love her. i was enraptured by so many of the photos of them last night. they really seem smitten with each other. and she really commands a room. in a style sense, she blows him away. she will be the first electrifying first lady since jackie kennedy.

i was also touched watching him moments after he finished the speech, and was hugging her and waving. he fought back tears. it looked like he fired himself up for the speech, hit a home run, felt the room surge and then was kind of taken aback by what had just happened, what he had done.

i think he's a competent man, but with a humble streak. i like that.

[doodler]

and many other corrupt R's will still be there and favors will be granted".

What's with this? Being Republican makes you corrupt? Seems to me there are at least as many corrupt Ds, Obama not withstanding.

And deal making is the name of the game. You give a little in the hopes of getting a little more. That's politics. In fact, that's life.

Anyone who thinks an Obama administration can be... not will be, but CAN be... any different is delusional.

Good one Doodler, yeah, there's no corruption on the Dem side. If you notice she said Pelosi and Reid first.  I get the pleasure of listening to Reid all of the time because I live in Nevada.

I would hope that the new administration would be different but I am not holding out hope for too much.  I guess I am becoming a true cynic.   And I am not picking on anyone here but Caroline Kennedy is helping to pick the VP?  Hmmmpt! Sound like good marketing to me. Camelot oh Camelot.  I am open to opinion but why her??

Back to being a pill.

Teddy is still in the hospital, I think. As a believer in Camelot and someone who considers the Kennedys as the ONLY royalty in the US, I think involving them is a smart move... especially as they were already on board.

I told my son that Barack was going to be here tomorrow... about 20 miles away... and he laughed about the possibility of me going to see him. I'm not. He's speaking at a high school and there were only 1000 tickets, but I wouldn't have gone anyway. On the other hand, Jake is staying about 10 minutes away from my son so maybe I'll go visit HIM.

[Dave Cullen]

lots of good moves today. smart heads prevailed:

- good move by obama to appoint the three-person panel to halt the VP speculation. crafty.

- good move by the party elders in the clinton camp to speak bluntly, and for the clintons to listen. last night's move was unfortunate, and they may already regret it, but they did stage a nice turnaround.

hopefully the saturday concession speech (moved from friday now) will be everything apple suggested the tuesday one would be back in the primary thread. we have seen hillary be very gracious and unifying at times, and i think she has gotten the message now that this is THE time to do that, and we'll see that side of her saturday. i guess it took a little while to let go.

things are looking good for the moment:

- off-the-charts victory speech by obama
- dreadful counter speech by mccain
- hillary appearing to get on board

good week, so far.

i think there's a lot of truth in what hillary's people are saying about it taking more than one speech or concession by her to bring her voters back, and heal the wounds. i'm not really sure how they go about doing that, but i hope they come up with something, and that she follows through. i have big doubts about that, but i'm hopeful.

[Dave Cullen]

I am really surprised at how much hatred there is toward Hillary.  

i'm equally surprised by your surprise. she started the race with neg ratings of nearly 50%--double just about anyone else in the race for either party, and perhaps the highest of any candidate since they started polling these things.

you are right that she also has people who love her. but she 's always been polarizing, with extraordinary negatives.

that was the single biggest reason i thought she would be a risky candidate to nominate, and still feel she would be a risky VP choice.

---

also, i think some of the hatred you perceive is directed at her personally, but much more of it is directed at her team, and they tactics the group of them employ.

i, for one, started out the campaign no fan of hillary, but came to respect her a great deal. that respect was in regular conflict with things she did that really bothered me and angered me. but it was nothing compared to how i felt about her attack team, particularly ickes, mccaulliffe, and wolfson and singer and the rest.

her team makes no bones about the fact that they work as attack dogs and are ruthless and will say anything to get ahead. the truth means nothing to them. i find them dispicable and repulsive. i want nothing more to do with them. we have had most of them around for years, and they are cut from the same cloth as the bush people.

i think these people, and their trench-warfare tactics are what inspire the most anger, revulsion and contempt. i know they do for me.

[Tahoelvr]

think there's a lot of truth in what hillary's people are saying about it taking more than one speech or concession by her to bring her voters back, and heal the wounds. i'm not really sure how they go about doing that, but i hope they come up with something, and that she follows through. i have big doubts about that, but i'm hopeful.

I am trying to crawl out of the depths of cynicism here and I do have hope (there I said it) that she will be instrumental in bringing people back if allowed to do it the way she knows.

I was listening to David Gergen tonight, I think he is right on.  I hope that Obama doesn't take McCain's bait and go for the town meetings right now, he needs to rest up for the big fight. Take some time off, lay a little low and then come on strong in the late summer and fall.

[Dave Cullen]

And I am not picking on anyone here but Caroline Kennedy is helping to pick the VP?  Hmmmpt! Sound like good marketing to me. Camelot oh Camelot.  I am open to opinion but why her??

Not nitpicking?

What's wrong with Caroline Kennedy? She's a brilliant successful woman, and highly respected.

And what's wrong with good marketing?

[Tahoelvr]

I am not nitpicking - just didn't want any of the other posters think I was slamming their positive comments.

I am not a big fan of the Kennedy's.  Yes, I know all about their service to the country and I truly respect that. It is incredible.  I just think there are other people out there like Biden or Dodd who would be a better service in helping him to select the running mate.  Eric Holder and Jim Johnson both served on "losing" campaigns with Mondale and Kerry.

I guess I am heading to google to read about what Caroline Kennedy has been up to lately besides writing books.

 

[Dave Cullen]

have you all seen moveon.org's mccain/bush "Identical Cousins" commercial?*

you can watch it here:

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/video/86644/

i think it's their best ad ever, by far.

the single biggest task for obama over the next five months is to link bush and mccain inextricably in the voters' minds. if he does that, he wins, in a landslide--nothing else comes close to mattering.

(80% of the country thinks bush has been a disaster, and not just on one but both of the two biggest issues voters ever vote on: war and the economy. if mccain is seen as a continuation of that disaster, he loses, period. he knows this.)

anything that can help cement that idea helps. and there's nothing like a memorable song that sticks in your head, and humor to make it stick.

it won't work on everyone. it won't work on the people who already adore mccain. but it's the indies in the middle that are flirting with him that we need to hit. this will help.

spread it.

* (for those much younger than me: "Identical Cousins" was the Patty Duke Show theme song--and the conceit of the show. OK, Pattty Duke was . . . hehehe. and i'm too young for the show too, but saw it in reruns. and btw, all gayboys are required to know this shit.)

[Dave Cullen]

BTW, having just drooled over tactics to defeat mccain, this would be a good time to restate:

this thread is open to everyone, of every political persuasion--but that includes me.

neither the thread, nor the forum endorse any candidate or party or take any official position.

but it's mods and admins and other volunteers are free to do so.

and i wouldn't be shocked if we've got more Dems than Reps on a gay-friendly forum. that's probably inevitable. but Rs are welcome, too, and can swap tactics and spread material to help the Rs.

have fun.

[Tahoelvr]

it won't work on everyone. it won't work on the people who already adore mccain. but it's the indies in the middle that are flirting with him that we need to hit. this will help.

As an Irish Catholic Dem turned Republican turned Independent now for many years, I can only speak for myself and my own little opinions.  I don't adore McCain - not by a long shot, but I do turn right when it comes to many govt programs.  Socially, pretty liberal (obviously) but I like smaller govt, less intervention, tax cuts, etc.  I am also a small business owner and well, higher taxes doesn't sound very appealing.  Makes me work harder for less money.  Blah!

I think there are many of us sitting on the fence, a little fearful of how far left Obama is portrayed and McCain - well, it's McCain and that should be scary enough.

[Dave Cullen]

I was listening to David Gergen tonight, I think he is right on. 

i have always found david incredibly insightful, and totally candid. he's one of a handful that never acts partisan, never spins anything. it's just not in his nature to lie, or even slant or decieve. he just tells you what he really thinks, whoever it helps.

(and he's also been hired by both R and D presidents to help them--including bill clinton, when he really needed help, so he knows both clintons and understands their minds.)

i think his politics still lean R, but he doesn't let that get in the way.

lately, he has seemed better than ever. i am ready to nominate him for Wisest Person In America.

(i think bill moyers had that role for me before.)

jeffrey toobin is right up there, too. but david has years on him, and experience on that inside that is priceless. and he empathizes and understands everyone, both their better and worse natures.

today he was talking about hillary, and her performance last night, which he thought was dreadful, and her moves today, but he also said their are two ways of looking at it: with her team being incredibly selfish and/or grappling to do the right thing. he felt there was some truth in both. i think he's right. i think the clintons really are conflicted right now. they're in a tight spot, and a painful one, and hopefully they'll work their way out of it.

[Dave Cullen]

oh my god! condi rice said something impressive! it had to happen eventually.

she reacted to barack's nom by saying, "i think that what we're seeing is an extraordinary expression of the fact that 'We the people' is beginning to mean all of us."

nice. maybe it was the way she said it. she had a great big smile.

i think i liked that although she's a staunch R, and presumably wants mccain to win, she can also acknowledge that hey, a black guy won, and a woman came close, and wow, we're getting somewhere.

speaking of which, it's always comical to see them trot out the three people of color they can find in their party to shove in front of the cameras during their conventions. it always looks so authentic. hehehe.

[jack]

The NYTimes is reporting that Sen. Clinton will suspend her campaign and concede on Friday, following push-back today from party bigs (led by her fellow New Yorker Charlie Rangel) who were displeased with her speech last night and want the party to begin coming together.

I can't  see Hillary ever using the word 'concede'. I just don't think it is in her vocabulary. I was wondering of there was going to be any backlash from her speech last night. I'm glad to see that there is.

charlie rangel's open letter to clinton was one of the big hits i was talking about, hilary rosen's was another.  she was told in no uncertain terms she was risking her entire political machine with this approach.

that said, i agree with linda, i can't see the word concede issuing from her lips, at least not without choking on it.  i hope she fools me and takes the high road, for her sake, obama's sake, the party's sake, and for the sake of the nation.

i love the idea of his giving her her way on health care (and that will appease many clinton supporter for whom this is a primary issue) for her to shpherd through congress as senate majority leader (a bit tough to pull off) or as hew sec on the cabinet.

although i blanched at the thought initially, she might actually be an appropriate centrist justice.  she would suck at attorney general, and besides, i think edwards is a PERFECT fit for that position (before filling that second supreme court opening)     

i will be stunned if anyone but biden becomes secstate (he said as if the election were over).