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Author Topic: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media  (Read 206506 times)

Offline ImEnnisShesJack

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #690 on: May 02, 2007, 07:49:47 AM »
sore subject for me as a gun just lays there until someone picks it up.

I don't have a problem with gun ownership.  I don't personally own a gun and it has been over a decade since I've shot a gun.  BUT if you're going to own a gun, license it.  And if you have nothing to hide, then there's no problem filling out the required paperwork and waiting 10 days. 

It's not the guns that are the problems, it's the operators.  As my Master has told me repeatedly in Tae Kwon Do class - if a guy brings a gun to a fight, he is REALLY wanting to fight.  (he's also a coward and has issues - but that's another story sort of.  Cho was a coward and he had some SERIOUS issues...)  If you take away the guns, you take away the symptom, not the disease.  Those people would find some other object (knives, bombs, etc) to attack their intended victims. 
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Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #691 on: May 03, 2007, 08:45:25 AM »
Well, I have thought long and hard about whether to respond to this, and I guess in the end I think it's this argument (guns don't kill, people do) that must be stood up to.  If I don't have the courage to challenge it here, how can our leaders do it in the public square?

At this point, I would be content with targeting simply the automatic guns which have no purpose but killing people. 

Also, there was a good letter to the editor in our Dallas paper last week, from a firefighter/ medic.  He said in all his years on the job he only knows of one time a gun was used for self-defense.  The countless other injuries were domestic violence, or mistakes, or kids, or a misfire during cleaning.

Last week's New Yorker mentioned that the prevailing sound heard by the rescuers after the Va Tech shooting was the ringing cell phones, all different kind of strange ring tones, of the dead students, whose parents were trying to find out if they were safe.

In the 20th century more lives were lost to guns in the U.S. than in our military, even counting all the deaths in wars.

So, sorry, I have to speak out against the "guns don't kill, people do."  Why do people need such efficient tools, when murder is against the law?  Automatic weapons are not needed for hunting.

But maybe I have strayed off topic for this thread!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2007, 09:52:16 AM by tellyouwhat »
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Offline chapeaugris

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #692 on: May 03, 2007, 10:21:26 AM »
It's-not-the-gun-it's-the-person people have traditionally pointed to Switzerland to bolster their argument since all men have to do military service a few days a year and keep a gun and ammunition at home and the crime rate is low. But even that country is rethinking their policy of letting them keep guns because there have been a lot of suicides and domestic homicides in recent years thanks to those guns. Switzerland has the same number of gun murders per year as the UK with a tenth of the population. They might decide to forbid keeping ammunition for them at home.

Offline ChrisW

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #693 on: May 05, 2007, 01:59:29 AM »
many, many years ago I recall saying to my now longstanding hubby that i did not want him to aply for jobs in the US, what I had heard about guns, all those years ago, was a big factor. My reaction is pretty much the same as the other European commentators.

Offline jlm1

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #694 on: May 06, 2007, 10:22:38 PM »
I think it's significant to note that Canadians also have lots of guns (hey, there's a lot of open space up there to hunt game!), but they have a far lower rate of human deaths by gunfire. It's not guns that kill people, it's Americans. (And I say that as an American whose father was a life member of the NRA.) Until we heal this society, things are never going to get any better.


Offline ChrisW

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #695 on: May 07, 2007, 01:49:33 AM »
Well, that's interesting. Being a member of this Forum has really made me revise my opinion of individual Americans (I have many European friends but I wouldn't really have said I had American ones, until now!) Quite an education. Without really knowing why, I just didn't want to bring children up in the US. And yet - look at all the wonderful people on the Forum  :D

Offline Marge_Innavera

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #696 on: May 07, 2007, 09:18:56 AM »
Well, that's interesting. Being a member of this Forum has really made me revise my opinion of individual Americans (I have many European friends but I wouldn't really have said I had American ones, until now!) Quite an education. Without really knowing why, I just didn't want to bring children up in the US. And yet - look at all the wonderful people on the Forum  :D

One more post about the gun issue....

A really knotty aspect to that whole issue is that gun ownership is specifically addressed in the Second Amendment to the US Constitution, which automatically makes gun control a huge and difficult issue. The wording suggests that the Founding Fathers had state militia in mind when they used the phrase "right to keep and bear arms", but the wording of the whole amendment is ambiguous. True Believers on both sides of the issue insist that it isn't, but it is. (True Believers, alas, are not very comfortable with ambiguity.)

That means that any discussion about restricting ownership of guns here involves one of the ten Constitutional amendments in the Bill of Rights. Personally I see no reason why anyone private citizen should need to own a handgun, but I've gotta admit to more than a little uneasiness about repealing or tweaking any of the Bill of Rights amendments. There are too many wingnuts, especially people who would love to do away with church-state separation, who would see that as carte blanche to hack away at other amendments that absolutely should not go anywhere. You'll find people in the US, Canada and Europe who are absolutely convinced they have the right answer to this; I'm not one of them.

Does raise a few questions about Civil War re-enactors with their black powder weapons, too. I have a reproduction six-shooter that I used for demonstration purposes when I worked at a living history museum; those are not covered by any registration laws at present.
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Offline Dave Cullen

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #697 on: November 09, 2007, 12:54:43 PM »
The school shooter this week in Finland idolized Columbine shooter Eric Harris, and was apparently very similar.

So the US correspondent for the largest newspaper in Finland, the Helsingin Sanomat, came out to Denver/Littleton to interview several people, including me.

He took some video in my writing studio, of me responding to some questions (and edited out the questions).

Two-and-a-half minutes of the interview is posted now on their website, with Finnish subtitles:

http://www.hs.fi/videot/1135231690830?kategoria=Uutiset

I will be quoted in his story in tomorrow's paper, and I'll have a link, but it won't be translated into English. (Any Finnish person here interested in translating a bit of it? BTW, is "Finnish" the correct term for the language? Or is it Magyar or something?)

The reporter, Pekka Mykkänen, was really great. It was refreshing to see someone so thoughtful and intelligent on the story for them. (This is one of the biggest tragedies in modern Finnish history. They are a very peaceful society.) I was up past midnight doing the interview with him. I was really impressed.

I did not gasp at the sight of myself this time. Much better than the CNN clip. He emailed that they posted my clip several hours ago and, "It was our most viewed video this morning."

That was kinda cool. It's weird, picturing a lot of people in Finland watching me, reading in translation. (He must have been up late translating.)

I also found this description of the paper's history interesting:

Quote
Finnish-language Helsingin Sanomat was founded 1889 as Päivälehti. The original paper was shut down by Russian officials in the summer of 1904. Helsingin Sanomat was introduced only a few days later and it has grown into the largest daily newspaper in Scandinavia with a circulation of about 434 000.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 01:31:13 PM by Dave Cullen »

Offline magicmountain

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #698 on: November 09, 2007, 01:18:43 PM »
The school shooter this week in Finland idolized Columbine shooter Eric Harris, and was apparently very similar.

So the US correspondent for the largest newspaper in Finland, the Helsingin Sanomat, came out to Denver/Littleton to interview several people, including me.

He took some video in my writing studio, of me responding to some questions (and edited out the questions).

Two-and-a-half minutes of the interview is posted now on their website, with Finnish subtitles:

http://www.hs.fi/videot/1135231690830?kategoria=Uutiset

I will be quoted in his story in tomorrow's paper, and I'll have a link, but it won't be translated into English. (Any Finnish person here interested in translating a bit of it? BTW, is "Finnish" the correct term for the language? Or is it Magyar or something?)

The reporter, Pekka Mykkänen, was really great. It was refreshing to see someone so thoughtful and intelligent on the story for them. (This is one of the biggest tragedies in modern Finnish history. They are a very peaceful society.) I was up past midnight doing the interview with him. I was really impressed.

He emailed that they posted my clip several hours ago and, "It was our most viewed video this morning."

I also found this description of the paper's history interesting:

Quote
Finnish-language Helsingin Sanomat was founded 1889 as Päivälehti. The original paper was shut down by Russian officials in the summer of 1904. Helsingin Sanomat was introduced only a few days later and it has grown into the largest daily newspaper in Scandinavia with a circulation of about 434 000.

Magyar refers to Hungarian - here is info on the Finnish language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language
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Offline Jannis

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #699 on: November 09, 2007, 02:39:08 PM »
Dave, I'd be happy to translate the article.

I was just on their website and saw the video before I noticed that you had posted about it.

Offline Dave Cullen

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #700 on: November 09, 2007, 03:20:18 PM »
Dave, I'd be happy to translate the article.

I was just on their website and saw the video before I noticed that you had posted about it.

well aren't you wonderful. thank you so much.

do you live in finland, or the U.S.? how are people taking it over there?

the reporter met with Columbine principal Frank DeAngelis this morning, and said it went really well. he plans to use that in his next piece. Frank is a really empahtetic guy, and he has talked to the people at the center of some of the later shootings and they have found it really useful. he's come through that tunnel and seen the other side. people need that hope. intellectually they know they'll get through it, but reassurance from someone who's been there helps. i hope he had useful things to say.

is there video on the site of his interview with Dr. Frank Ochberg? (edit: whoops, of course not, that was by phone.) Frank one of the brightest guys in the world on psych matters. amazing guy. (the NY Times used him extensively for mental analysis in their V Tech coverage, for example.) i put pekka in touch with him, and he said frank o was great. he always is.

(with frank o, as a reporter, i also admire that he requires almost no editing. normally, with a good source, if i spend half an hour, i may get 2-5 great one- or two-line quotes. with frank, every freaking line is a keeper. he just crystalizes the whole thing in the first sentences out of his mouth. it makes my job much easier.)

oh, one more finnish question. a friend of mine watched the video and was concerned that it seemed like there were not a lot of subtitles compared to how much i was blabbing. i'm kinda figuring that he had very little time to edit or translate--and i tend to ramble--so he perhaps hit the high points and left out some of my verbal clutter. which is fine, and preferable, actually. i can use an editor. but i'm curious.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 03:28:32 PM by Dave Cullen »

Offline Jannis

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #701 on: November 09, 2007, 04:11:08 PM »
You're welcome. There was an article by Pekka Mykkänen posted on the HS site less than two hours ago and I'm translating it right now.

I live in Finland and it's been very bad here. Finns tend to stay pretty cool and not get very sentimental, at least in public, but obviously it's been a huge shock especially to students and teachers. First reaction was "How can something like this happen here?" The articles in newspapers and tabloids deal with all kinds of issues from the possible dangers of antidepressants to how Finland is seen in other countries. 

The subtitles were fine in your interview. I'd say they were made by a professional. There were a few comma issues but it was definitely what you said. :)


Offline Jannis

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #702 on: November 09, 2007, 04:41:18 PM »
Here you go. Any mistakes are mine. I'll check the paper in the morning and see if there's anything else. :)

Link to article

Pekka Mykkänen, Helsingin Sanomat

Auvinen’s idol Eric Harris a “murderous psychopath”

Denver/Littleton

Pekka-Eric Auvinen, the Jokela school shooter, admired Eric Harris,  one of the Columbine shooters.
Harris was a “megalomaniac, murderous and cold psychopath” who enjoyed lying and lacked a conscience.

Harris and his friend Dylan Klebold killed 12 students,
a teacher and finally themselves in 1999 at Columbine high school in Littleton, Colorado.

American experts who have studied the killings for several years told Helsingin Sanomat
that although the messages and acts of Auvinen and Harris have similarities,
it will take time to find out about the motives and state of mind of the Finnish shooter.

“Did he feel that it was okay for him to kill inferior people? We need to know a lot more to be able to determine that”,
says well-known professor of psychiatry Frank Ochberg who has retired from the University of Michigan.
Ochberg worked with the FBI on the investigation.

It’s hard to make profiles on school killers, and researchers have been surprised.
Harris and Klebold for example “were like night and day”, says journalist-author Dave Cullen
who for several years has studied the shootings for his upcoming book.

Cullen says at his home in Denver that the diaries Harris left behind talked about deep “hate, hate, hate”.
Klebold on the other hand was depressed and self-destructive and his writings were full of love and desire to be loved.

Cho Seung-hui, a student at Virginia Tech who last April killed 32 people and himself, most likely had schizophrenia, says Ochberg.

All three school shooters suffered from different diseases.

The more you learn about the three American killers, the clearer it seems that Auvinen
- at least on the surface -  had similar views on the world as Harris. Auvinen imitated Harris:
he talked to his friends about  how he admired the Columbine shooters, put Harris’ favorite music on his video clip,
read Nietzsche and chose his web user name from the T-shirt Harris wore on the day of the killings.

Both men said they hated stupid people with no talent. However, Harris didn’t necessarily inspire Auvinen to violence.
The violence most likely was in him and he just followed Harris’ example in his actions.

Both Harris and Auvinen wrote that they stood above others. Yet both had to face their limitations.

Harris wanted to blow up his high school among other things. “He thought that he would become more famous than Hitler.
He died disappointed  – the homemade bombs didn’t explode and the school didn’t catch fire.”

Auvinen considered himself “godlike” and predicted that “my enemies will run scared and hide when my name is mentioned”.
Yet he confessed before the shootings that “I can’t change things much alone”.

The victims of Harris and Auvinen had to run and hide, but ultimately everything was over in less than an hour.

Offline Dave Cullen

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #703 on: November 09, 2007, 06:14:56 PM »
thank you so much for doing that, jannis.

i'm not surprised to hear people are shocked there. it was bad here for awhile.

Offline Boris

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Re: This Forum In The News--Coverage of us in the media
« Reply #704 on: November 09, 2007, 11:55:17 PM »
Thanks Jannis, great job.

The atmosphere here is heavy indeed. The police haven't yet released the names of the victims in order to protect the mourning of the families.

It comes close to home to all of us. In nation of five million nobody can distance themselves from this.

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