Doug,
Thanks for posting this thread. You’re not the only atheist here at all. Back in January there were a number of us who posted to the Religious thread at that time. Those early threads aren’t even archived.
Man I wished I had known... I live way out in the boonies, so I had to wait for BBM to be on satellite before I could see it. Here, none of the movies that would be interesting to see are ever allowed to be displayed. I am still waiting to see Fahrenheit 911, someday.
Are you aware of other GLBT atheist forums on the net? The one or two I’ve seen are not actively managed and so don’t attract participants. Sure, I know plenty of national organizations, but I was wondering specifically about GLBT forums?
I am not aware of any, I have looked from time to time only to find that the last post was in 2003 or something. It is like the atheists are being wiped off the planet. Sure does not help my feelings of isolation I can tell you that... <wink>
It seems as though the national GLBT organizations have moved to at least sounding more religious along with the rest of the pundits. So now we have for example The Institute for Welcoming Resources sponsored by NGLTF. And the HRC is working on their own “Out In Scripture” nondenominational outreach program. I’ll leave the fighting-them-in-the-pews to folks who care about theology. I was raised atheist by atheist parents. Was I lucky!
Yes, you was very lucky. Your parents did not infect you with the mind disease meme of religion. I assume you know what a meme is, but just in case, a meme is something like a mind virus, it gets past our minds defences, and becomes an unquestioned fact. I do not know how old you are, but this is a minor one " I'd walk a mile for a ... " Everyone in my age group would know that is "camel". No thought, no question, just know and would fight you on any other answer, yet, any answer it just as valid. Religion is the same, that is also why the one they where infected with is the one they fight for. Very few change that. Anyway, I was lucky too, while my parents confessed religion, they did not participate or make me after I rejected sunday school, oh so many years ago. They are atheists too for the most part, though they still struggle with some of it.
Do you have some local support?
Absolutely none. I talk to no one, socialize with no one. I did meet with one other gay guy here a few years ago, but he was so messed up by religion that I could not really deal with him. He soon moved to Seattle. I do not know of any others, but I have no doubt that many exist like Ennis, like me, who go on day by day, looking and acting like we fit in. Because we are hidden in plain sight, we can not even pick out our own like minded people, it would not surprise me if there an maybe a few dozen like me in this vast area, if only we could find a way to reach each other. I know the folks told me many years ago that if the neighbors ever find out that I am gay, they would kill me. I have little doubt they would do major damage to me, but I can not risk the damage they would do to the rest of the family. Yeah, I could move away again, but to what advantage? To live in a place that does not fit me in every other way, but sexual... naw, been there, done that, have the shirt to prove it. I miss my gay bowling league the most, it was a lot of fun.
My city has a gay friendly atheist news group that meets for pizza. I just wish they’d use forum software other than the Yahoo group they’ve got. I hate those banner ads! But then my city has seven or eight independent free thinking, humanist, and/or atheist organizations, so there’s plenty to choose from. One local couple has started a group known as The Brights. Maybe you’ve heard of them? Some folks just sort of cringe a little at the name, but they have a healthy international following.
When I am through typing here I will definitely be looking them up. No, I have not heard of them. At this point, I just want to have intelligent conversation, I do not care if it is with people from mars... When I lived in the city, which I hated because of all the noise, and never ending traffic, I did not find atheist organizations then either, but I guess I did not know where or how to look. My atheistism is mostly of my own thinking. I had a very profound event happen that showed me how to dispel the illusions. I was working in a retail store, and was getting overwhelmed, I guess. Anyway, I would get up, drive to work, work, come home, sleep, and start over. But then a strange thing began to happen, when I went to sleep, I was back at work again. It got to the point I could not tell if I was awake and actually at work, or if I was asleep and dreaming it. I had this one guy come in and order a part. I wrote it down on the order sheet, noted it on the specials sheet, it was ordered. A week later it came in, I marked it has being there, put his name on the box. And I called him that his order was in. He came in, and said he had never ordered a part... Of course he did, so I went to the original order sheet, it was not there, I went to the special orders sheet, it was not there either. So I looked for the box, there was no box. Insanity had taken over, how was I going to tell the difference between reality and illusion? The only thing I had, was the contradictions and resolving them. No order, no box, I did not order it, and just dreamed it. So, I quit that job, and I have never had that happen to me again. The manager of that store was the first encounter I had of an extreme religious nut, he was really insane. He would come in and fire you, call you all sorts of names, then huff out, but the assistant manager would then say just keep doing your job, it will be ok. And sure enough, it was like he never said anything until the next time. He had many a boy crying in the back after one of his outbursts, most walked away never to return, not that I blame them. Even then I was Ennis, I could not afford to quit, so had to endure it.
I have to agree with the reservations you mentioned in your first post regarding BB. In my very first post I said we don’t have to own these characters. At that time there was quite a bit of back and forth as to whether the characters were gay or bi. I said I preferred my gay men to be honest forthright and courageous. I can’t claim to be any paragon of courage, so it’s not hard to understand, but I still find it frustrating to watch Ennis frozen to the ground out of fear and ignorance.
I agree. We do not have to become these characters, yet I did find the last scene to be really too close to home. I have been right there where Ennis is standing, tears in my eyes, missing my friend, while clutching his cloths. So this movie hit me like a ton of bricks. However, in other parts of the movie I identified with Jack as well. And I totally agree with your frustration with Ennis being so afraid and ignorant, yet I do really understand him, and have met him in person a number of times, mainly in other people, but once in awhile he stairs back at me from the mirror. As I have gotten older, I have lost some of my fire to fight it all.
Actually, now that I have seen the movie a number of times, it is Jack that I think should be questioned, not Ennis. Ennis, from the very first told Jack that this was not going to work. Jack did not listen. Jack really needed to move on, take his occasional times with Ennis as just that, and find someone he could really love, and find satisfying love back. Ennis is damaged goods, not that such do not deserve love, they do, but they cause so much pain as well... believe me I know first hand...
While the more religious go on and on about how wonderful Jacks love is and how this is a story about love conquers all. I do not see it that way, I see it as more of a story about how to waste your life trying to change someone else, instead of changing yourself. Wasting your life denying the reality in front of you, because you would rather believe in a fairy tail.
Ennis, I love you, I wished I could give him a big hug and hold him. Yet, we all know that he would not be comfortable doing that, for he has it ingrained that any of that will get him killed. He is just damaged, not beyond hope, but he will have to work on it and only he can do that. I really think by the way he looks at the last scene that he maybe realizes that to not have someone like Jack is just as bad, if not worse, than death itself.
Then another thing I kept thinking about on Jack, if he truly wanted more with Ennis, why do it by living in Texas? And driving for 14 hours every other month? Get your shit together Jack and move back to within 20 or 30 minutes of Ennis, it ismuch easier to for a friend to drop by, spend some time, and still maintain the illusion of being separate. I used to know two or three couples that maintained their own homes, but spent time together at one or the others as they felt they wanted. Jack could have easily bought the cow and calf ranch he wanted, and hired a top ranch hand, Ennis, and it been legit in all ways, if he would have wanted to have Ennis more in his life, though that may have been more painful, or may have allowed Ennis his illusion, and given Jack more of what he wanted. Anyway a few thoughts...
Again, thanks for the thread,
Pete
You are very welcome, I guess it always bugs me that the only the religious ones get any support, any compassion, and etc. I guess that is the problem of being a minority within a minority, it is such a double whammy. It isolates one even more, I feel much more isolated by the religion, than by gender preference. But, again, that is me.
Thanks for responding, I look forward to getting to know you better.