The Ultimate Brokeback Forum

Author Topic: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain  (Read 697171 times)

Offline angel

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #300 on: September 01, 2006, 06:24:59 PM »
(snip)
so, i'll just say that i agree with lola. and who is to decide who's going to hell anyway ? i can't stomach people who believe that THEY have the only truth and KNOW everything, including what god (or who/whatever is there somewhere....out there...oir anywhere else) thinks about some fellow humans.....

And that's the real problem in terms of raising our ire.

Although I'm an atheist, I believe in freedom of all types, including religion. Almost all of my close friends are religious or at least believe in god. But they are a humanist, non-judgmental lot. Most are pacifists, pro choice, pro gay marriage, etc.

I rarely discuss religion with them. When I do it is only because they find it hard to comprehend that I'm a non-believer. Because we have the same values.

The religious right OTOH, is always talking about "values' as they support illegal and immoral wars, spread hatred and fear, and try to push us back into the dark ages with their creationism in schools bullshit.

They are dangerous. This is more than just a difference in opinions. They embrace policies that support or ignore genocide. Willful ignorance is one of their earmarks. The politics of fear are their tools.

BBM scares them. What else would cause this film to be called "controversial" in this day and age. It was much less controversial in the more secular  European Union.

The consensus in Europe seems to be that fundamentalist, militant Muslims are the greatest threat to world peace. The second greatest threat? The USA with our born-again, (I refuse to call him a cowboy in respect to BBM), religious, right-wing, dumbass President with the sub-zero IQ.

And his constituency! Preacher says vote and I vote. Preacher tells me what to think, so I don't.

God help us all!

Offline desertrat

  • Sunflower
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 21916
  • No angel ;-)
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #301 on: September 02, 2006, 01:36:54 AM »
You should! All are welcome.

thank you for the warm welcome ! think i'll pass by here from time to time, seems a nice place ! ;)


Quote
My biggest pet peeve is people who decide they are god warriors, as if an all powerful, all knowing, all loving god would have need of such, they invariably manipulate others at the expense of their freedoms, of their loves, and of their sanity, of course usually to their own advantage.

that's something i don't get at all. who comes up with the idea of being god's warrior ? most of those people must not have read the bible at all...i mean, jesus was a peaceful man, he promoted pacifism (the thing with left and right cheek, sorry, english is not my first language, so i'm not able to quote the bible in english). so how in god's name could they colme up with the idea of being WARRIORS ??
Minds are like parachutes... they both work better when opened.

Offline desertrat

  • Sunflower
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 21916
  • No angel ;-)
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #302 on: September 02, 2006, 01:42:53 AM »
Almost all of my close friends are religious or at least believe in god. But they are a humanist, non-judgmental lot. Most are pacifists, pro choice, pro gay marriage, etc.

guess that's where i would fit in as well...believing in god (sorry, i know this is a non-believers thread but i really enjoy expanding my horizon and listening to other people's opinions ! and i'm not a "missinary", i don't want to preach to anybody !) but "with brain". thinking about things and being open-minded. at least i hope so.


Quote
BBM scares them. What else would cause this film to be called "controversial" in this day and age. It was much less controversial in the more secular  European Union.

The consensus in Europe seems to be that fundamentalist, militant Muslims are the greatest threat to world peace. The second greatest threat? The USA with our born-again, (I refuse to call him a cowboy in respect to BBM), religious, right-wing, dumbass President with the sub-zero IQ.

you are right. in both cases. i am from europe, things are VERY different here. not even the church said anything against BBM. and the other thing is right as well. we're not sure whether we should be more afraid of muslim terrorists or of the US.  :(
Minds are like parachutes... they both work better when opened.

Offline Vic

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1921
    • TalkAboutSexxx! Fun and serious talk about all things sex.
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #303 on: September 02, 2006, 02:21:11 AM »
you are right. in both cases. i am from europe, things are VERY different here. not even the church said anything against BBM. and the other thing is right as well. we're not sure whether we should be more afraid of muslim terrorists or of the US.  :(

Both, because, just like in the Cold War, we're in the middle, in between.
TalkAboutSexxx.com. It's all about sex appeal - Sex and the media.
Sex is funny - Sexy  humor.

Offline angel

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #304 on: September 02, 2006, 05:09:42 AM »
you are right. in both cases. i am from europe, things are VERY different here. not even the church said anything against BBM. and the other thing is right as well. we're not sure whether we should be more afraid of muslim terrorists or of the US.  :(

Both, because, just like in the Cold War, we're in the middle, in between.

It's more like Europe seemed stuck in the middle between 2 "super-powers" whose squabbling threatened oblivion. The Soviet Union at least lacked the religious fervor to inspire suicide attacks.

Now they're stuck between hordes of ferocious fanatics on one side, and a sanctimonious bunch of greedy, well-armed and stupid Americans (read conservative republicans) on the other, both of whom feel they have God on their side.

disclaimer: I do realize that most Americans are neither stupid nor greedy.

Nick_F

  • Guest
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #305 on: September 02, 2006, 06:36:13 AM »
Guys this is such a good thread I have moved you to the permanent discussions area.

Offline desertrat

  • Sunflower
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 21916
  • No angel ;-)
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #306 on: September 02, 2006, 10:57:15 AM »
Now they're stuck between hordes of ferocious fanatics on one side, and a sanctimonious bunch of greedy, well-armed and stupid Americans (read conservative republicans) on the other, both of whom feel they have God on their side.


you know what's so funny ? europeans, the religious fanatics who brought the inquisition and witchhunts over mankind, are now considered the non-religious ones  ::) but maybe that should also fill us with hope - let islam age and "ripe" and give the americans time to "emancipate" from religious fanatism and we might come back to a world ruled by reason and rationality. well - if we survive in the meantime and no bush or al-kaida blows us from this nice planet.... ::)
Minds are like parachutes... they both work better when opened.

Offline Doug2017

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #307 on: September 02, 2006, 12:02:58 PM »


But now we got a more scary religion, one that thinks they will be Raptured up into Heaven and be saved.

Tom 

I was watching a very interesting documentary the other day, think it was on the one of the free thinking channels, anyway it was about evangelical people.  They was interviewing them on the end times war, and Prez Bush.  They want the end times war, can not wait for it, if it was tomorrow it would not be soon enough.  They believe that Jesus will come to take them away before the war begins, and they will not have to suffer through it.  They are all for doing anything to kick it off.  They are really for Bush because they believe he will get them to the end war.  They was commenting how he will be a hero for all time if the end war comes on his watch.  They point to the gays, abortion, etc as proof of the end times, and they can not wait for Jesus to come back and rule for 1,000 years. 

They will support anything that will bring that time sooner.  Of course, when they get what they want, they will be the ones wailing and gnashing of teeth, like the rest of us, when Jesus fails to show, when the pain, suffering, and death shows no difference between those who believe and those who do not qualify. 

They should understand this by looking around them now, the believers die just as horrible as "unjust" ones when tornadoes, fires, hurricanes, floods, wars, shootings, poisonings, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, etc comes to their doors.  There no difference in the death rates of the devout and the non-devout.  The difference between the "protected" and the "non-protected" is not discernible, when all factors are taken in account.

I worry greatly that this current administration is being guided to start a world war that will end all life on the planet.  Just my opinion...

The questions that come to my mind are these:  Why does an all powerful god need people to start the end time war?  Of what value is an end time war to an all loving god, all merciful god? Why would he let it happen in the first place?  Would not a loving god teach them to accept each other as valuable in and of themselves?  Why does an all loving god not stop the child molesters?  Why does an all merciful god allow a government using his name kill thousands of innocents?  Why does a god allow a man to destroy the lives of others with outright lies?  There among thousands of other questions...  Just my thoughts...
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Doug2017

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #308 on: September 02, 2006, 01:06:18 PM »
that's something i don't get at all. who comes up with the idea of being god's warrior ? most of those people must not have read the bible at all...i mean, jesus was a peaceful man, he promoted pacifism (the thing with left and right cheek, sorry, english is not my first language, so i'm not able to quote the bible in english). so how in god's name could they colme up with the idea of being WARRIORS ??

I do not know where they came up with the idea, but it is strongly entrenched.  Have you heard about the video game they have out now for their kids?  The whole premise is that they are god's warriors, and they go in and kill all who do not fit with their religion.  It is a brutal game of virtual guns, knifes and hate.  The one scene shown the other night was set in New York City where they was mowing down "faggots and other such trash" with machine guns, then if one was still wiggling when done they would stab them with a knife.  The kids that was playing was having a good ol' time.  Yep, more of that "christian" love in the making, and we are worried about fundamentalists in the middle east??? 
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Doug2017

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #309 on: September 02, 2006, 01:13:16 PM »
you are right. in both cases. i am from europe, things are VERY different here. not even the church said anything against BBM. and the other thing is right as well. we're not sure whether we should be more afraid of muslim terrorists or of the US.  :(

Both, because, just like in the Cold War, we're in the middle, in between.

I know I am very worried about both, because there is only a turban of difference that separates their belief systems, yeah the names are different, but the goals are the same.  Both are just as dangerous, and as radical, though the US one is much more sneaky about it all, at least for the time being...  Just my humble opinion...
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Doug2017

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #310 on: September 02, 2006, 01:31:13 PM »
Guys this is such a good thread I have moved you to the permanent discussions area.

Wow, Nick, thanks, I really appreciate it! 
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Doug2017

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #311 on: September 02, 2006, 01:50:02 PM »

you know what's so funny ? europeans, the religious fanatics who brought the inquisition and witchhunts over mankind, are now considered the non-religious ones  ::) but maybe that should also fill us with hope - let islam age and "ripe" and give the americans time to "emancipate" from religious fanatism and we might come back to a world ruled by reason and rationality. well - if we survive in the meantime and no bush or al-kaida blows us from this nice planet.... ::)

It does have a little ring of hope, but I do not like the odds on the two blowing this planet to a lifeless dust ball.  With the use of Depleted Uranium in our weapons, with a half life of only 5 billion years, one has to wonder if they will even need to blow up this planet to make it lifeless?  And what it is going to take for rational thought to return, and will it be too late?  Already the wind blows the DU dust into Europe... it has already been found in radiation traps there.  Will god step in then and stop the birth defects, the cancers? Already our boys coming home from this war and have badies with severe birth defects, and the Iraq women are having many babies with defects, yet not hardly a word on the news.  Does not this seems grounds for war crimes? 
Reality contains no contradictions, for how can something be and not be at the same time? Visit Us on the NON-BELIEVERS Thread.

Offline Vic

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1921
    • TalkAboutSexxx! Fun and serious talk about all things sex.
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #312 on: September 02, 2006, 02:06:56 PM »
I do not know where they came up with the idea, but it is strongly entrenched.  Have you heard about the video game they have out now for their kids?  The whole premise is that they are god's warriors, and they go in and kill all who do not fit with their religion.  It is a brutal game of virtual guns, knifes and hate.  The one scene shown the other night was set in New York City where they was mowing down "faggots and other such trash" with machine guns, then if one was still wiggling when done they would stab them with a knife.  The kids that was playing was having a good ol' time.  Yep, more of that "christian" love in the making, and we are worried about fundamentalists in the middle east??? 

I'm not one for censure but, as an avid gamer, I find some of these games disturbing in their message. War games are one thing, that's soldier against soldier, military style, and that is bad enough, but okay, it's reality. Soldiers are there to fight other soldiers, etc.

However, when they start translating this into "civilian" scenarios, as did Carmageddon a few years back, I have doubts. They are too simplistically racist, too thinly veiled in their "nazist" type message, and I think they should be taken off the shelves as it is mostly younger kids that play them rather than adults. At the least computer games should get a rating system like films do. As adults we can put these things into perspective, kids tend to take them at face value and then incorporate it into their own belief systems. And that is a different story.

Vic
 

TalkAboutSexxx.com. It's all about sex appeal - Sex and the media.
Sex is funny - Sexy  humor.

Offline Jer009

  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 1725
  • Jack and Ennis...a love that will never grow old
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #313 on: September 02, 2006, 04:08:29 PM »
desertrat--
I feel as you do, being an agnostic rather than an atheist. But, as an agnostic, it's far easier to rattle of a list of what I DON'T believe in than what I DO believe in. I believe in the broadest concept of God possible, period. This leaves an open door to investigate others' beliefs and practices--as an outside observer.

Yes, this concept is uncomfortably vague for most Christians, who think that my definition of God is so broad as to be meaningless. And some atheists say that an agnostic is an atheist with no balls! Maybe my beliefs will progress toward atheism eventually, and maybe not. When I think of the insanity of the popular concept of God, sitting on a throne with a long flowing beard, with Jesus hovering somewhere nearby...watching evil done in his name and doing nothing....well, I don't buy it. I want no part in such a horror.

It's a chidish concept of God, like some kind of Santa Claus in the sky, ready to hand out gifts to some and a lump of coal to others. I've got to believe that, if there's a God, he's at least as progressive and free of prejudice as the best humans. How can he (or she!) not be? I predict that, as the human race evolves, one of the things to fall away will be homophobia and racism. Thus our concept of God will keep pace with human beliefs, until we cease needing a God to hold our hands entirely. We're not there yet; I'M not there yet. But I see this as a natural human progression, and secular humanism will fill the needs that religion serves now. Provided we don't blow up the planet first, or turn it into a cesspool of toxic chemicals.

Organized religion has caused more misery and violence than anything in history...the sooner we grow out of it, the better.

Thanks, Doug for this thread....can an agnostic still be considered a non-believer? I hope so, because I  think this thread is the cat's pajamas!


Offline desertrat

  • Sunflower
  • Obsessed
  • *****
  • Posts: 21916
  • No angel ;-)
Re: Non believers who love Brokeback Mountain
« Reply #314 on: September 02, 2006, 05:15:57 PM »
jer009,
i'm pretty sure that this thread should be for agnostics as well....or we simply have to open a new one  :D

i completely understand your position, having "suffered" a similar one. i am not an agnostic, i believe in god. i grew up catholic, my family is very closely involved into our church community. still, my family was always open-minded and my brother and i were encouraged by our parents to go our own ways and question things. having grown up in a the community of our church, being close to the people, i never felt like completely "abandoning" them and i still go to church when i'm there in the weekend. i feel good with the general beliefs of the catholic church (= the things jesus said). i just don't believe in any things the pope says. first of all, he isn't holy to me but just a human. humans make mistakes. i don't believe in dogmas. a human can't "define" anything "definite" or "ultimate" because we ARE human and can make mistakes. well, that's only some examples. anyway, i was critizised lots of times (interestingly not by people from my church community, they always accepted my beliefs) that i am "making up my own religion" and just "pick out the things i like". well, that might be true. but as a thinking and questioning person, don't i HAVE to question things and refuse things that go against my conscience (assuming that god GAVE me that conscience as a tool for finding the right way and the right decisions) ?

in my experience, those people who tell you that you are not a "right" one (whatever - a "atheist with no balls" or a "do-it-yourself religion-maker"), they just have troubles thinking or questioning things themselves. they need to see things black or white because their brain isn't large enough to perceive shades of grey.
Minds are like parachutes... they both work better when opened.