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Author Topic: BBM General Discussion 2  (Read 598968 times)

Offline Sara B

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2415 on: June 27, 2017, 02:41:37 AM »
Personally, I have never read the short story

If you're having difficulty finding the short story, B.W., here is its original appearance in the New Yorker. The (quite important) short prologue somehow got missed off, but I can send you that if you like.

I love the illustration.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1997/10/13/brokeback-mountain

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2416 on: June 27, 2017, 09:33:28 PM »
Hey Ellen,

Your dream is so sad... Actually as sad as Jack dying, too! Because- same can be said about Ennis after Jack's death. It doesn't matter who of them dies...

What do you think would be Jack's future in your dream? Do you think he would be more suicidal than Ennis? At least we know that Ennis probably lived on for his girls, but as far as Jack is concerned, apparently he did not consider Bobby as somebody worth living for. What are your thoughts?

Hi BJ -- In my dream the feeling I had was that Jack was self-destructive. He didn't want to be, he wanted to get out of the pain, but he couldn't seem to. You had the feeling that if only he could be still for a while maybe he would get through the worst of it, but he seemed to be compelled to hurl himself into situations hurting himself and other people.

--If I had thought of this scenario in waking hours, I don't know if I would have imagined Jack that way, but now that I've seen it in my dream I can't think of it any other way. The Jack in my dreams was not going to make it for long, unless there could have been some intervention, or maybe a near death experience -- where he would have to be laid up for a while.
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline Lyle (Mooska)

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2417 on: June 28, 2017, 04:46:28 PM »

Hi, Ellen!   :o




Offline morrobay

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2418 on: July 13, 2017, 08:41:29 PM »
I bought and downloaded the movie from Amazon last night and watched it for the first time in I don't know how many years...I made it all the way to the moment Jack's mother puts the shirts in the bag...but I had kleenex nearby.

When Jack & Bobby are riding in the combine in the parking lot, for the first time I saw the plane in the sky...that's the only new thing I noticed...it's still perfect to me...I hope they never do a remake, as has been rumored...
Bye, Felicia

"What a maroon."  Bugs Bunny

"I try to be good...I only manage it in streaks."

Offline Ellen (tellyouwhat)

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2419 on: July 27, 2017, 03:55:33 PM »
sometimes I think life is just a rodeo the trick is to ride and make it 'til the bell --john fogerty

Offline BJ

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2420 on: August 03, 2017, 06:11:23 PM »
Guys,

I still have some issues with the movie and the book that bother me / which i am not clear about till today. If anybody can share his / her thoughts on the following it would be great!

So, first issue.
In the short story (at the beginning) where it says about Ennis having had a dream of Jack, it says "... lets a panel of the dream slide forward. If he does not force his attention on it, it might stoke the day, rewarm that old,...". English being not my mother-tongue, this sentence seems to be contradictory. Does this mean that Ennis does *not* want the dream to "stoke the day, rewarm that old...", so he forces his attention on it by sliding a panel of the dream forward? Mm?

For me it's an important part telling us how Ennis is feeling about Jack and the fact that he's forever gone (of which we don't have much in the story) and it just does not make sense to me...

Any thoughts / explanations?

Offline Sara B

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2421 on: August 04, 2017, 12:56:18 AM »
BJ, my understanding of it is that if Ennis tries to concentrate on the dream it will elude him, but by just being aware that he has dreamed of Jack, or by allowing a brief flash of a scene from it, the warmth and sense of pleasure may remain with him during the day.

Offline BJ

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2422 on: August 04, 2017, 02:20:53 AM »
mmm...
Sara, why do you think will the dream elude him if Ennis concentrates his attention on it?

Offline BJ

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2423 on: August 04, 2017, 02:27:58 AM »
You know, i now come to think that maybe

a) the dream was not all good, so Ennis allows himself to slide only that one (positive) panel of the dream to slide forward? or
b) if he thinks too much on the dream (even the positive part of it) that all the negative stuff will inevitably come up, too?

Wha'dya think?

Offline Sara B

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2424 on: August 04, 2017, 05:31:35 AM »
mmm...
Sara, why do you think will the dream elude him if Ennis concentrates his attention on it?

Because that's what dreams can do when you try to recall them the next day!

Offline Sara B

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2425 on: August 04, 2017, 05:39:29 AM »
You know, i now come to think that maybe

a) the dream was not all good, so Ennis allows himself to slide only that one (positive) panel of the dream to slide forward? or
b) if he thinks too much on the dream (even the positive part of it) that all the negative stuff will inevitably come up, too?

Wha'dya think?

No, I don't think I feel that :); my feeling is that it's real life that is pretty bleak, but that this dream of Jack really does make him "suffused with a sense of pleasure," even if other mornings we know from the second last paragraph of the story that "he would wake sometimes with grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release..."

(I'm enjoying being encouraged to think about it all again!)

Offline morrobay

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2426 on: August 04, 2017, 05:17:38 PM »
He's out of a job and he might have to live with his daughter...two pretty bad things to deal with, but the dream of Jack gives him pleasure, even with all the stuff going on in his life. 

He might have to stay with his married daughter until he picks up another job, yet he is suffused with a sense of pleasure because Jack Twist was in his dream.

I think AP meant to show that his dreams of Jack were the only things Ennis had to look forward to...as Sara said, if he concentrates on it too hard, it might slip away from him...but he goes through his normal routine: pours his coffee, blows on it, doesn't "force his attention on it" and is able remember a part of it...a panel...that much didn't slip away.  He can go back in time to that "old, cold time on the mountain when they owned the world and nothing seemed wrong."

Again, I agree with Sara...even the second to the last paragraph shows that it didn't matter if the dream was joyous or sorrowful...at least he had the memories, the remnants of dreams of that best time of all in his life.

"And he would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets."
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 05:25:02 PM by morrobay »
Bye, Felicia

"What a maroon."  Bugs Bunny

"I try to be good...I only manage it in streaks."

Offline CellarDweller115

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2427 on: August 04, 2017, 06:30:59 PM »
Thanks  for the posts here.  I love reading what the members think, and it makes me remember the  book and movie.

Offline BlueJeanJeannie

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2428 on: August 05, 2017, 05:23:19 AM »
"And he would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets."

Apart from the description of the DE, that  ^^^  is one of my favorite sentences in the short story.
Chaos is order yet undeciphered.

Offline Sara B

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Re: BBM General Discussion 2
« Reply #2429 on: August 05, 2017, 07:13:42 AM »
It's beautiful, isn't it, Sonja? The emotions and the phrases perfectly balanced.