All-Time Favorite Films

[DaveinPhilly]

A while back we were discussing The Remains of the Day I think,and I must have been in a state of confusion (not unusal at my advanced age) thinking we were talking about Howard's End. Please do forgive me. Just an anglophyliac Yank who watches too many Brit films.

DaveinPhilly

[Casper]

I was thinking this morning of another Academy Award "robbery."  I think "Cabaret" deserved the Best Picture Award over "The Godfather."  This is just my opinion.  "Cabaret" won 8 Oscars while "The Godfather" won 3.  "Cabaret" won Best Actress, Best Supporting Actor, and Best Director but lost the Best Picture Award.  The editing in "Cabaret" is impeccable.  To me, it is the best editing I have ever seen in a movie.  In fact, when I was watching the Oscars that night (they were held in April back then), I thought "Cabaret" was going to pull off an upset when the Best Director Award was announced.  I was later proven wrong with my intuition. 

I have seen "The Godfather" but I just think "Cabaret" was the better movie. 

[jayiijay]

CASPER:

We are in the distinct minority, but I 100% agree with you, Cabaret deserved Best Picture over The Godfather, and clearly almost won.  It's 8 Oscars is a record for most without Best Picture, no doubt Godfather's box office & hoopla put it over the top, but to me, Cabaret is one of the top 5 films of the 1970s, with iconic performances by Liza Minnelli (I'm not otherwise a fan of her acting) and Joel Grey.  In 1977 the American Film Institute took its first greatest films survey.  They chose 50.  Gone With the Wind was #1, Citizen Kane #2, Casablanca #3, they finished the top 10, and then 40 more.  Both Godfather and Cabaret were in that unranked 40.  If you check out the most overrated films thread, you'll see I named The Godfather films in my top 10 (they're good, but not that good!).  Glad to find a kindred spirit in this regard!

[paintedshoes]

Well, Jay, it looks as if we disagree once again.  I absolutely adore "The Godfather" and, while I admire the style and sophistication of "Cabaret", I do not LIKE it.  It was too, what, "precious", maybe, too self-serving, too self-knowing.  I felt that I was somehow being manipulated by the film.  "Look at mee, I'm a great film".  That may be too tough.  I admit to not having seen "Cabaret" for many years, since it did not move me in any way, so time may change my perspective, if I ever chose to see it again, which I doubt.

On another note..."Black Narcissus", which you noted above, is, to me, a mesmerizing film, almost hallucinogenic in it's cimematography and allusions...to me, it is a true classic.

Isn't this fun, though, to agree or disagree, with you and Casper and Lola and any one else who ventures an opinion...to me, it is the exchange of ideas that is the most fun.

Now, for something completely different:

Since this is a category of all-time "favorite', not necessarily "best' films, how about some "guilty pleasures".  Films which rank on no one's lists of top 100, but are watched anyway for sheer fun.

I nominate  "The Fifth Element" as a cheesy, fun, silly entertainment with no redeeming qualities except a good time and no thought necessary.

Your thoughts, anyone?

[jayiijay]

PAINTEDSHOES:

"What's Up, Doc"
"Blazing Saddles"
"South Park: Bigger, Longer, Uncut"
"A Fish Called Wanda"
"Sleeper"
"Take the Money and Run"
"Groundhog Day"

I would contend these are all very good movies, but would find it harder to argue they are great ones, thus guilty pleasures.

I am sincerely curious:  what is so great about The Godfather movies???  The music is beautiful and most of the acting fine, but they are too long, often drag in between murders (LOL), are redundant, thematically all over the place, derivative (especially Part II - see Elia Kazan's America America), glorify some pretty unsavory characters and therefore don't move me.  I have tried at least 3 times with each and still don't get it.  thx

[sinne]

PAINTEDSHOES:

What I love about your response is that you are able to separate your personal preferences from objective quality.  That is a rare thing to be able to do, I sure have trouble respecting things that don't suit my particular taste...wouldn't even know where to start with examples.  I keep separate lists: personal favorites vs. "official" greatest.  Renoir's Rules of the Game is on the latter list, it has to be, the world's critics have considered it to be top 3 the past 30 or 35 years, but it is nowhere near my personal 100.  It is artful and after three tries I finally recognized the brilliance, but top 3, over Renoir's other masterpiece Grand Illusion, no way, LOL.

Hey, if you don't already know "Black Narcissus" by Powell & Pressburger with Deborah Kerr & Jean Simmons, it is on Turner Classic Movies today at 4:15 p.m. est.  Beautiful movie!   At midnight, TCM is showing another world masterpiece, Buster Keaton's The General, another film that I great respect and admire more than I love...my personal preference (and in my top 100 is his earlier 1922 "Our Hospitality", not as highly regarded as General or Sherlock Jr., but wonderful).  Anyhow, it is only  1 1/4 hrs., a must for any serious film buff!!  After, TCM shows the excellent In Which We Serve by David Lean & Noel Coward, winner of the 1942 New York Film Critics Best Picture.  What a channel!  Off to bed, thx

P.S.  OOOPS:  It is 10 minutes later, was heading to bed, noticed The General is on NOW, I'm off a day, sorry, LOL.  If awake, catch/tape In Which We Serve.  Black Narcissus no doubt will be on again.  Sorry, thx.

I taped "Black Narcissus" (based on your recommendation awhile back) but haven't watched it yet.  Was all set to watch "The General" last night too but it wasn't on when it stated.  Darn. 

Re personal picks and "great films - I agree.  On the ballots at my Oscar parties, we were always allowed to fill out two choices:  our predictions and our personal choice.  Of course, only predictions counted for the final tally and prizes, but it just felt so good to be able to mark your personal choice, even when you knew they didn't have a hope in hell of winning.

I remember the year of "The Godfather" and "Cabaret".  Tough call.  I LOVE both of them, but I must say I have watched "The Godfather" more often since, but I saw "Cabaret" more times in the theatre and absolutely became Sally Bowles for months afterwards - green nail polish and everything!  And played the sound track over and over.  I saw it on stage a few years ago in Vancouver - quite different from the film (much darker) but I really enjoyed it.  It's not the same watching "Cabaret" now though.  When I first saw it at 18 I thought Sally Bowles was the height of sophistication.  Now of course I see that she was really quite a sad, pathetic figure.  I think I preferred watching it through my 18-year old eyes.

[jayiijay]

SINNE:

But as you know, Sally Bowles is supposed to be a sad and pathetic figure.  Our views of many films change as we age, the wide-eyed visions we have in our youth sometimes sour when we achieve a greater understanding of the artistic work.  I was 7 yrs old when Cabaret was released and hated it because it was so dark.  I saw it in at college in the 80s and was blown away.  I saw it again a few years ago and found the experience sobering.  The reactions were more about myself than the film, but isn't that true of us all to one degree or another?  Cabaret is just so artful and vivid and terrifying, with that great score.  Godfather, well, I just couldn't care less about Al Pacino's portrayal of Michael Corleone, he is a wuss who "tragically" becomes his father, and then worse, a monster.  So what.  Lots of swelling music creating a sense of self importance; women relegated to shrill non-performances; the endless Hyman Roth business dealings and subsequent senate hearings in Part II (impossible to watch, just deadly dull); and the same family squabbles over and over.  It's just me, I know, I'm "wrong", but I've tried and give up!  Off to bed.  thx

[Casper]

Guilty pleasure films?  Hmmmmm......I would have to say any Laurel & Hardy film.  I always laugh whenever I see one of their movies.  People back then were paid so little yet they put their whole heart and soul into what they were doing.  Movies back in those times had one main directive -  make 'em laugh! 

[Lola]

CASPER:

We are in the distinct minority, but I 100% agree with you, Cabaret deserved Best Picture over The Godfather, and clearly almost won.  It's 8 Oscars is a record for most without Best Picture, no doubt Godfather's box office & hoopla put it over the top, but to me, Cabaret is one of the top 5 films of the 1970s, with iconic performances by Liza Minnelli (I'm not otherwise a fan of her acting) and Joel Grey.  In 1977 the American Film Institute took its first greatest films survey.  They chose 50.  Gone With the Wind was #1, Citizen Kane #2, Casablanca #3, they finished the top 10, and then 40 more.  Both Godfather and Cabaret were in that unranked 40.  If you check out the most overrated films thread, you'll see I named The Godfather films in my top 10 (they're good, but not that good!).  Glad to find a kindred spirit in this regard!

I think the AFI list that is out now is the best!

I think the Godfather was the greatest movie ever made. 

Voted the number one movie was CITIZEN KANE, Orson Welles' 1941 classic, which he directed, produced, wrote and starred in at the age of 25. The rest of the top ten, in order, are: CASABLANCA (#2), THE GODFATHER (#3), GONE WITH THE WIND (#4), LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (#5), THE WIZARD OF OZ (#6), THE GRADUATE (#7), ON THE WATERFRONT (#8), SCHINDLER'S LIST (#9) and SINGIN' IN THE RAIN (#10).

I don't think Cabaret was even on the list!   The second Godfather film was rated at #32.

[TomS]

Cabaret was my all time favorite movie at the time.  It made me want to be a filmmaker.  Bob Fosse was my idol then.  Imagine what he would have done with Chicago on film!
Having grown up in an Italian family, The Godfather perfectly captured a sense of obligation one feels in return for any kindnesses received, and an unspoken sense of menace should one not fulfill that obligation.
I loved them both, but Cabaret was my personal inspiration that year.

Guilty Pleasures?
Beyond the Valley of the Dolls--Dir: Russ Meyer; screenplay by (yes!) Roger Ebert
Valley of the Dolls, with Patti Duke and Susan Hayward!
Where Angels Go Trouble Follows, and The Trouble With Angels (Rosalind Russell as Mother Superior) a product of my Catholic guilt
Performance--Mick Jagger and James Fox
Plan 9 From Outer Space--still makes me giggle
..do I need therapy?

[jayiijay]

TOMS:

I don't think the sense of menace was "unspoken" in the Godfather films, LOL, I think it was over-the-head blatant.  Yeah, Godfather nicely juxtaposes family and business (what a business) and a sense of guilt I think most people feel, but I can name a dozen other movies that do it just as well, my point being, it's good, maybe very good, but not THAT good.  Cabaret was a film that jumped off the screen and stayed with me too - that's what makes a great film, something we are awed by and remember.  For those who have seen it only once, sure there are memorable scenes in the Godfathers (thanks to our culture and re-runs), but can you fill in the "blanks" and truly describe the narrative?  I defy anyone to do it for Part II, which I tried again just 2 weeks ago and already barely remember.


LOLA:  FYI, the 1997 American Film Institute list was universally trashed by film historians and movie buffs the world over as pathetic.  No offense to you in any way, I'm just stating a fact.  The incredibly low placement of films like Vertigo and The Searchers (I think 91) was ridiculed, the exclusion of masterpieces like Sunrise, The General, Intolerance, Greed, The Magnificent Ambersons, Touch of Evil, The Crowd, Nashville, etc. etc. - one of those etc.'s including Cabaret led to the complete dismissal of the list by most of the European film community altogether.  AFI has continued their annual lists because they do well in the ratings (heck, I watch every year, they are fun and good cause for debate), but as for their authority, they have little to none.  Oh, and by the way, the 1997 film poll does not rank Godfather II as the best of its year; that honor goes to #19 Chinatown.

[Lola]

Voted the number one movie was CITIZEN KANE, Orson Welles' 1941 classic, which he directed, produced, wrote and starred in at the age of 25. The rest of the top ten, in order, are: CASABLANCA (#2), THE GODFATHER (#3), GONE WITH THE WIND (#4), LAWRENCE OF ARABIA (#5), THE WIZARD OF OZ (#6), THE GRADUATE (#7), ON THE WATERFRONT (#8), SCHINDLER'S LIST (#9) and SINGIN' IN THE RAIN (#10).

So are these picks trashed by film historians and movie buffs the world over as pathetic ?     Or just some of the list?   

We will have to agree to disagree on this one, because it is hard for me to debate two movies (Godfather I & II) which I think were the greatest movies ever.

Cabaret was good, I liked it, I own it.  If you want to talk best song in a movie (is there a list?) I would say Cabaret would be in the top 10.

And Chinatown lost just about every award to Godfather II, including best picture!

[johnk]

Since this is a category of all-time "favorite', not necessarily "best' films, how about some "guilty pleasures".  Films which rank on no one's lists of top 100, but are watched anyway for sheer fun.

Oh gosh, guilty pleasures...here they are in no particular order:

Spaceballs
There's Something About Mary
The Anniversary
Caddyshack
Animal House
Airplane
Diamonds Are Forever
The Stepford Wives (1975)
Babette's Feast

Actually, I don't feel that guilty about the last one (it won an Oscar for Best Foreign Language Film in 1988, for what it's worth).  I just don't know anyone who likes this film (besides me).

[johnk]

Valley of the Dolls, with Patti Duke and Susan Hayward!

"I want a doll!  I want a doll!"

Forgot to put this one on my list.  Gosh, there was so much scenery-chewing in this movie I'd be amazed if there was anything left of the sets by the time they finished filming.

No therapy needed.

[DaveinPhilly]

Since this is a category of all-time "favorite', not necessarily "best' films, how about some "guilty pleasures".  Films which rank on no one's lists of top 100, but are watched anyway for sheer fun.

Oh gosh, guilty pleasures...here they are in no particular order:


Babette's Feast

Actually, I don't feel that guilty about the last one (it won an Oscar for Best Foreign Language Film in 1988, for what it's worth).  I just don't know anyone who likes this film (besides me).

Are you kidding?! It was a magnificent film!!!!!!