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This is the area to discuss any stories in The Daily Sheet or to make suggestions for anything you would like to see in The Daily Sheet.
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Here is an additional story on the Moscow situation that was reported in TDS:
Moscow Times
May 4, 2006
One Main Reason to Be Scared
By Masha Gessen (a Moscow journalist)
It is probably the most abused quotation of all time: "When they came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I did not speak out; I was not a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out." It is attributed to German Pastor Martin Niemoller, a onetime Hitler supporter who was later imprisoned by the Nazis. The poetic wording probably has only a remote relationship to the pastor's actual words; overall, though, it is a brilliant but little-understood insight into the nature of collaboration.
In the modern world, everybody is a something. In Western democracies, the ability to claim affiliation with a group leads to the useful but annoying phenomenon of identity politics. In Russia today, it endows each of us with her own individual allotment of fear.
I am Jewish and gay. I am also the mother of one (light-haired,
fair-skinned) child who attends a Jewish preschool and one child who has very dark hair and eyes and swarthy skin. I have four reasons to be scared.
How scared are you? Go ahead and count the ways.
That's silly. All of us have exactly one reason to be scared, and we all
have it in common. We live in a city and in a country where people who claim authority -- including God-given authority -- actually say that some human beings do not have the right to exist. To my mind, that is key to any definition of fascism.
Over the last year, various religious leaders have called on their
followers physically to attack gay people. It began when a group of
activists declared their plans to organize a gay pride parade in Moscow in May 2006. Umar Idrisov, the chief Muslim authority in the Nizhny Novgorod region, said Muslims should stone gays if and when they march. Far from reprimanding Idrisov for calling for violence, Russia's head mufti, Talgat
Tadzhuddin, stated that all "normal people, both Muslims and Russian
Orthodox," are going to beat gay people if they come out to march.
Patriarch Alexy II was not quite as crude, but he publicly thanked Mayor Yury Luzhkov for his blatantly illegal refusal to consider the organizers' application for a parade permit. Last month, Metropolitan Kirill cited homosexuality as a chief evil value forced upon Russia by the West. The message was clear: Homosexuals don't just lack the right to march, they don't have the right to exist.
Last weekend, Russian Orthodox religious activists cooperated with radical nationalists to attempt two pogroms at Moscow gay-friendly clubs. Police intervened, with varying degrees of success: According to the management of the club attacked on Sunday night, one of their staff members had to be hospitalized after being hit by flying bottles, eggs and rocks. The following night, young men with shaved heads and older women with religious posters, and their priest, appeared in front of a different gay club, alternately praying, shouting "No fags in Russia!" and "Glory to Russia!" and trying to storm the club.
I could circle back now to Martin Niemoller's famous quote and state that if you don't stand up for gay people because you are not one of us, sooner or later they will come for you. That is true, in most cases, and obvious.
But it's not the point. The point is, we live in a country where religious
and secular authorities openly encourage fascist violence. It's getting to where we risk becoming collaborators by even just recognizing the authority of this president, this mayor, this patriarch and this mufti. And at this point, it really makes no difference what you are anymore.
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Please note that we are aware that the Press Release is not yet posted in the Major Announcement section as TDS states. There's been a slight delay -- and when it is ready, it will be posted there. Please check for it later. Sorry for the inconvenience. Jan
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Please note that we are aware that the Press Release is not yet posted in the Major Announcement section as TDS states. There's been a slight delay -- and when it is ready, it will be posted there. Please check for it later. Sorry for the inconvenience. Jan
Did somebody confirm that it was the actual librarian who responsde and not some other employee?
cabin
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In response to the article in today's paper about the Oklahoma Library: I have just spoken with Ms. Carolyn Blackwelder, Assistant Librarian at the Olive Warner Memorial Library. I re-iterated the infromation in the story. She stated that an internal investigation is/will be underway as to who may have sent this e-mail, as several people among the library staff have access to the computer. I gave her my name and e-mail address and asked her to contact me with the results of the investigation.
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In response to the article in today's paper about the Oklahoma Library: I have just spoken with Ms. Carolyn Blackwelder, Assistant Librarian at the Olive Warner Memorial Library. I re-iterated the infromation in the story. She stated that an internal investigation is/will be underway as to who may have sent this e-mail, as several people among the library staff have access to the computer. I gave her my name and e-mail address and asked her to contact me with the results of the investigation.
If the computer is used by mulitple people, if someone has the original email, it might help to forward it to them. It should have the date and time the email was sent on it, and that may narrow down which employee was using it at that time.
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To: CactusGal
Jan, you have a panic attack.
Calm down.
You are still in the town where nobody locks car doors while driving.
I disagree with you. What you wrote is like an article in "Washington Post". Too much politics, too many conclusions - and complete absence of understanding of the situation in the country.
There were all those demonstrations of crazy old women and neo-Nazi; there was a little clash near "Three Monkeys". There is a big discussion of gays with the Orthodox Church - I actively take part in it on a couple of Web-sites.
But you are turning this into the Crytall Night in Germany. And this is completely wrong and misleading.
My opinion. I will probably write a more extended posting about the issues arisen. Not today though. Today is the V-Day here.
NICK
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Nick -- You certainly are entitled to your own opinion but I was the poster -- the course of action is above my pay-grade. (BTW, you have no idea where I live -- I've spent most of life in the largest cities in the US - although sophistication isn't exclusive to city rats). jan
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Ooops.
I am sorry. I didn't notice that was an article from "Moscow Times" .
So I feel lost if Jan and CactusGal is same person.
Sorry if somebody got offended by mistake.
No offense was meant. And hopefully - not taken.
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All right, Nick -- apology accepted. BTW, I posted the story for another member -- we only wanted to start a discussion on the Moscow subject in which we both take an interest. Since you are very involved, why don't you tell us what is really going on in your opinion. Jan
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Thanks for the nice little blerb about me! That was a pleasant surprise, I had no idea that was going to be there. :)
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In response to the article in today's paper about the Oklahoma Library: I have just spoken with Ms. Carolyn Blackwelder, Assistant Librarian at the Olive Warner Memorial Library. I re-iterated the infromation in the story. She stated that an internal investigation is/will be underway as to who may have sent this e-mail, as several people among the library staff have access to the computer. I gave her my name and e-mail address and asked her to contact me with the results of the investigation.
what paper carried a story about the OK library? do you have a link? thanks.
I think it's important that we avoid bombarding them with inquiries at this time. I would like to personally talk to them and clarify a few things. I ask that everyone else please refrain from contacting them for the time being.
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I am in contact with the library and the situation is definitely more complex. I will get back to you with more information soon, hopefully today.
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^ Ok.
I've been angry and blue over the news about that hostile email all day. Tonight I saw BBM again and I couldn't help but thinking it was the deed of people like the ones that [library employee] referred to that Ennis had witnessed as a child.
No young person should have to be terrified like that in 2006. So it's a good thing there will be some kind of response from here. This is what BBM is all about.
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Sorry to hear that, Elvan.
I think we have the matter resolved, but it's very sensitive, so I've drafted a response and am running it by the rest of my advisory team before going public with it. I hope to have it up in the morning. Thanks again for everyone's patience.
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Thank you, Dave, and all of your advisory team, for handling this matter so well.
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Re: Oklahoma Library
Dave -
Thank you. That news yesterday hit close to home in more than one way. You handled the situation with decorum and made a very positive difference.
Gratefully,
Glenn
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Dave, wonderful outcome regarding the Oklahoma library, and I so liked what you said about opening a conversation. The daily sheet really enhances my visits to this site.
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Dave,
As someone who lives in a small town in Illinois I know that the reaction of the Librarian was not totally unusual. What surprises me is that so many are so insulated from the reality of life out here that they take the response as a surprise. Our local paper has run several hateful letters to the editor about the movie. My closest neighbors whom are good friends, had the letter cut out and posted on their refrigerator to show agreement. If you attend the local churches you will hear a stream of hate coming from the pulpit about god didn't make Adam and Steve! Several had lengthy sermons about their dislike for the movie and what it stands for. Being a realist I choose carefully whom I disclose my oriention to. Many are accepting, some are not.
I have seen a lot of changes in my lifetime. I have gone from neighborhoods in the city where gays and straights were openly supportive to the country where being out is still a rarity. I am no different than the others on this forum that have been engulfed by the greatness of this film. But I know that we see it from our eyes, and while I agree that we need the same freedoms as others, I also know that not everyone is going to feel the same. I was among the first to report that Walmart was featuring the films release on posters at the doors. I was surprised at the flood of negative responses to anything having to do with walmart. Like it or not they are a country staple. I saw their support of the movie as a step forward. Only time is going to change attitudes, and the rural areas will be the last to come along. I know that is not acceptable to some, but for most of us who choose the rural lifestyle it comes with the territory. Overcoming conservative Christian values that are ingrained in so many out here is a difficult job, and some will never change.
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Thanx! The Daily Sheet is my salvation. It brings me a digest of what I might want to search for that day, when it is impossible to search for everything.
I would like to see an archive of the daily sheets so far and in the future that we could access. We can remember that, "Oh, yeah, I saw that on the Daily Sheet. Let me look in the archive and find out where the link led me." If it is possible, that would make it perfect.
This Forum really is a lifeline for so many of us. Keep up the good work.
Bobby
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Dave, great effort on your part to get the 'conversation' going with the Oklahoma library. A cornerstone for further conversations indeed!
Re the Daily Sheet, it's how I start my day on this forum. On reading today's piece on Bookend Scenes, a thought occurred to me. A number of threads seem to have reached a saturation point of interpretation and have become annoyingly repetitive. That's not to say new people shouldn't have a place to work through their own ideas. But I was wondering if anyone has produced a summary of thought on such threads as Were They Gay, Jake's Fate, etc, the hot button ones. It might be an idea to cover these threads one at a time in the Daily Sheet, so people can see the diverse opinion without having to scroll though thousands of posts.
Just a thought!
John
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Thank you to everone here for this site and for the efforts at the Oklahoma library. I havent posted here much but love the story, the movie and this site!! Dave--thank you in particular for your intervention with the library. You are right, the power of one-on-on contact is unbeatable in this struggle for acceptance.
Secondly ( and this may seem silly but bear me out) we really should get behind Jake for the MTV Movie Awards. Firstly, its a great way to keep saying Thanks for a breathtaking performance. Also, MTV represents the most sought-after demographic in Hollywood. Its the silly kind of stuff that freshly scrubbed MBA's in little meeting room in Hollywood look to to predict "bankability". Jake winning would send a big statement to them. It does actually matter!
So please go vote-repeatedly! IHEARTJAKE.Com has confirmed wth MTV that you must vote the full ballot in order for it to count---I know, how boring, but lets just do it and show some love for Jake.
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I hope the Oklahoma library honors its pledge to accept - and make available - the DVD.
But if you happen to wander in to that branch someday don't be too shocked if you find the DVD on the top shelf of an "adult material" section, where you need a ladder to reach it.
Sorry if I am cynical, but I know how this kind of stuff plays out. Some ultra-right winger - and that's most of Oklahoma - will notice the DVD, raise hell about if poisoning the children with the "gay agenda" - and then insist that the DVD be banished, or put someplace where no one will ever find it.
And we will never know about it.
But whatever happens, at least we know we tried to do the right thing.
I hope I am wrong.
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question.. are the daily sheets archived.
i love love love the may 10th one and would want to come back to it time and again..
someone let me know.
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Yes, thank you for your efforts. I hope that this person, truey in their heart, will think about their words and the impact and harshness they carried. Hopefully in the end it can have an impact on them as it did on us.
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Dave,
Thank you thank you thank you.
Thank you for resolving that Oklahoma library situation.
And thank you again for this life-saving forum.
Yes, thank you for your efforts. I hope that this person, truey in their heart, will think about their words and the impact and harshness they carried. Hopefully in the end it can have an impact on them as it did on us.
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Regarding the symbolism primer on today's "Daily Sheet" and the "Bookend Scenes",
DaveL mentions this one:
SPECK ON THE MOUNTAIN – NIGHT FIRE - Both characters …view each other across the vast upland meadows, and visually each appears as a tiny dot or "island" in the distance.
I loved the following paragraph in Annie Proulx's story where she wrote:
"During the day Ennis looked across a great gulf and sometimes saw Jack, a small dot moving across a high meadow as an insect moves across a tablecloth; Jack, in his dark camp, saw Ennis as night fire, a red spark on the huge black mass of mountain."
I absolutely loved the imagery and meaning of this when I read it and to my utter delight when seeing the movie, the brilliant screenwriters included this tiny "speck" in their screenplay and Ang Lee put it into his movie. To me, this seemingly overlookable thing in the short story that they found a way to be included in the film is, in my mind, a testament to everyone that they really cared about this and molded it into a work of art. Even now, when I see these two images in the film (they are reversed from the paragraph and separated a bit by another scene) I am amazed and gratified. Possibly my two favorite images in the film--the "Speck on the Mountain" (Ennis looking at Jack) and "Night Fire" (Jack looking at Ennis).
Meow.
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question.. are the daily sheets archived.
i love love love the may 10th one and would want to come back to it time and again..
someone let me know.
Hey Alijoon -- so glad you liked that! The Daily Sheets archiving is a little haphazard at the moment, I suspect Pete is too busy working on the site reorganization to think about this detail. It will improve in the future. ANYWAY, if you look under "Forum, Events, Campaigns and News", scan (with eyeballs) down the page and you will see some selections for Daily Sheets, May 1 through 7, something like that. The weeks are not organized next to each other.
So that is the best way now to look for past issues.
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question.. are the daily sheets archived.
Seems that you can find the other ones in the 'Forum Events, Campaigns and News' thread (above this one). :)
Today, of course, I also want to thank Dave C and everyone involved in resolving the Oklahoma library situation, establishing a constructive discussion.
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thanks for that truck article. i will thank calgary actory when i see him about the threads.
jack
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Jack -- glad you enjoyed it and, yes, please say thanks to CalgaryActor -- he's really taken a lot of his time in corresponding with me and I've so appreciated it.
Wouldn't it be fun to know the history of that old truck?
Jan
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question.. are the daily sheets archived.
i love love love the may 10th one and would want to come back to it time and again..
someone let me know.
Hey Alijoon -- so glad you liked that! The Daily Sheets archiving is a little haphazard at the moment, I suspect Pete is too busy working on the site reorganization to think about this detail. It will improve in the future. ANYWAY, if you look under "Forum, Events, Campaigns and News", scan (with eyeballs) down the page and you will see some selections for Daily Sheets, May 1 through 7, something like that. The weeks are not organized next to each other.
So that is the best way now to look for past issues.
Thanks for asking. We'll have this sorted out very soon, in our re-org. We have added a "Coming Soon: Forum News & Updates" board in the Community section. The Daily Sheet will move here very soon, and we'll make a place for the archived sheets all together. (Probably a child board specifically for them in the News board, but we haven't hashed out all the detailis of that yet. But we will soon.)
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I'm so glad we have this thread now, so that I have a good place to thank the people behind it.
I'll start by thanking Pete for conceiving it and getting it started, and our two wonderful editors, tellyouwhat and cactusgal, who make it happen every day, and continue coming up with new ideas and improvements.
This is one of the coolest things we've added, and I'm really happy to have it, and to have such a great pair of editors. It wouldn't be here every day without the constant efforts of tellyouwhat and cactusgal. Thanks.
And thanks to everyone who has been reading it every day, spreading the word about it and making it such a success. It's great to hear your comments here.
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and let me separately thank everyone who offered such kind words about the situation we had on the DVD campaign. i was really unsure how all that was going to play out, and i felt a little spent after it came to a close, yesterday. the encouraging words definitely helped.
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Dear Daily Sheet.
I've never written to y'all before so I'm very nervous. But I wanted to say thank you for your handling of the situation with the library in Oklahoma. When I read the librarian's response I wondered if it might be someone who was working on issues of their own of some sort. So I'm glad that it seems like it all worked out for the better for everyone.
Thanks for all your good work!
Signed -
Anonymous
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2 editorial corrections for Friday, May 12:
1 -- "Ellen, you've given me a great laugh this morning with the Daily Sheet. While I'm sure Jake does inspire some inmates to "bate", the correct euphemism should be "Jail Bait". lol. (Imjackshesennis)
Wow, I plead innocent, due to ignorance of the law! Haven't spent enough time around jail bait is my problem.
2 -- NWWaguy's screen name is posted with an extra W. Sorry about that!
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I am glad that serious efforts are now underway to restructure this forum for the long haul. Dave Cullen threw together this board in December to ride the wave of public interest in Brokeback Mountain, never believing --- quite understandably! --- that the forum would be anything more than an ad hoc arrangement which would pass away in a couple of months. The results of both the film and the forum have astonished us all; we all realize that what Dave brought into existence should stay in existence; and now the necessary alterations are being made. I am very happy to see this, as a forum is only as good as its posters, and some of the posters on this forum are among the most intelligent and articulate posters whom I have ever encountered on the Internet. I am happy that the revamping is taking place, and I wish it the best. I certainly will be around to check on its progress! :D :D :D
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The daily sheet is where I start my day. Love it. Couldn't wake up without it. Congrats to all and a very xxx-large thank you, hoping you all fit in.
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I won!! I won!! Ok, i just paid the "Buy it Now" price to avoid any mishaps, but "sexy Jake Gyllenhaal" will soon be arriving in my mail, with a place for a lightswitch over his heart - that only I will be allowed to operate!!! ;)
Thanks to Karin for posting the Ebay link.
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I won!! I won!! Ok, i just paid the "Buy it Now" price to avoid any mishaps, but "sexy Jake Gyllenhaal" will soon be arriving in my mail, with a place for a lightswitch over his heart - that only I will be allowed to operate!!! ;)
Thanks to Karin for posting the Ebay link.
Congrats, Meira, you have delivered me from temptation! ::) ;)
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I am totally shocked. I just read the Daily Sheet for today and cannot believe that I was named Volunteer of the Day. I so love the time I get to spend here that I consider it a privilege. Now come on over to the diner for a cup of coffee and some good talk. Just watch the dust, we are doing some renovating. ;)
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I feel majorly embarrassed now at being featured!! LOL Oh my.... (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi13.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa282%2Froma_uk%2Fsmileys%2F38.gif&hash=a45a606c70ab91b8543dda787f981883d708c6f5)
*goes to hide*
Just one thing - I live in the rural north of Buckinghamshire, not the UK. Bucks is very much in the south!
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lol. Helen I was going to say, it's not enough to be featured, but you have to rebutt to it as well???
Don't be embarassed. You've been a major asset to the forum whether you know it or not.
I think it's great.
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Don't be embarassed. You've been a major asset to the forum whether you know it or not.
I think it's great.
Thanks :)
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to the kind powers that be.. please note that in the international section (cross posted to the crackerbarrel if you can't find it ;) ) is a request for help from a spanish BBM afficianado. perhaps you might want to broadcast that.
turns out i still had it on my clipboard.. here...,
Hi,
We need your help!
It's official. Universal Pictures in Spain will edit only the Full Frame Brokeback Mountain version´s film and not the Widescreen option.
This unfortunately Universal Pictures´ decision means that Spain will be the only one country in the world where the Widescreen version of the movie will not appears.
It is necessary that everybody sends a complaint to info@universalpicturesiberia.es protesting on this serious fact.
Also through the Web site http://www.universalpicturesiberia.es/ , link "Contacto".
Perhaps between all, Universal Pictures Spain will realize about the mistake that means his decision.
People talks about at:
http://www.zonadvd.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4987 (in spanish)
http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zonadvd.com%2Fmodules.php%3Fname%3DNews%26file%3Darticle%26sid%3D4987&langpair=es%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8 (Google translation)
Best Regards
Salva
Barcelona
PSD:I'm sorry for my poor Google-translate-English
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Thanks, Jack -- You know we're always up to help a good BBM cause! Jan
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we wanted to start a discussion on the Moscow subject. tell us what is really going on. Jan
Russian gays press ahead with plans for rights march
MOSCOW, May 15, 2006 (Combined reports) - Russian gay activists said Monday they were determined to hold Moscow's first ever gay rights march later this month despite trenchant opposition, and called on President Vladimir Putin to join the protest.
"We officially informed the Moscow mayor's office on Monday morning of our intention to organise a march on May 27 (the 13th anniversary of the decriminalization of homosexuality in Russia) to defend the rights of sexual minorities in Russia and, whatever the response from the authorities, we will hold this march," Nikolai Alexeyev, who runs the site gayrussia.ru, said at a news conference.
The Russian Orthodox Church, several members of parliament and Moscow's powerful mayor, Yury Luzhkov, have already expressed their opposition to the event. Earlier this year, the Mayor's Office said the parade could not take place because the proposed event had "evoked outrage in society, in particular among religious leaders."
In an open letter to Putin, gay rights activists also invited the Russian leader to take part in the event and asked him to put an end to widespread discrimination in the country.
"Mister President! We call on you ... to stop sexual discrimination and a violation of our rights to protest," the letter said.
"We invite you to take part in this International Day Against Homophobia event," it added.
Homosexuality was considered a crime until 1993 and classified as a mental illness until 1999.
Some 2,000 activists, including Merlin Holland, the grandson of British author Oscar Wilde, and French pop star Desireless, are due to take part in the rally in central Moscow later this month.
According to a recent poll by the independent Levada centre, 37 percent of Russians believe that gays should be prosecuted and 45 percent are against homosexuality.
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European rights body slams Russia over gay attacks
STRASBOURG, May 15, 2006 - The Council of Europe Monday condemned Russia over attacks on homosexuals and called on the authorities to prosecute those responsible.
"I strongly condemn the recent violent incidents against gays and lesbians in Moscow, and I call on the authorities to investigate these attacks, prosecute the people responsible for them, and prevent any such violence in the future," said Terry Davis, secretary general of the 46-member organisation, Europe's chief human rights body.
"This is particularly important in view of the series of events currently being organised by the Russian gay and lesbian community to raise awareness about the difficult situation in which they live," he said.
"They are entitled to call for full and unequivocal respect for their basic rights and freedoms."
"The violent homophobic protests in recent weeks were neither isolated nor spontaneous," said Davis.
"They have taken place against the background of a sustained campaign against the rights of gay and lesbian citizens. It is regrettable that several people who should normally be the first to speak out against such blatant injustice, have decided instead to endorse and actively support homophobic ideas."
Nationalists and Orthodox Church faithful have opposed the gay pride march and earlier this month besieged a gay club as police stood by.
The mayor of Moscow Yury Luzhkov justified his opposition to the march on the grounds that "most people oppose these public expressions of sexual tendencies."
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Thanks, BBM for posting. I'm not sure what the Council for Europe is actually responsible for. Is there still talk of suing in the European Court of Human Rights? Jan
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I hope it's okay for a co-editor to respond to TDS - thanks for the Annie Proulx story, it's great to know she is speaking out against conformity in politics. Tell you what, she is my role model.
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I hope it's okay for a co-editor to respond to TDS - thanks for the Annie Proulx story, it's great to know she is speaking out against conformity in politics. Tell you what, she is my role model.
I was thrilled to meet with Annie Proulx and happy to share the details of my encounter with her. Meeting Annie will certainly be one of the highlights of the year for me. I know that she was quite pleased to learn about our existence and some of the projects that we have been working on.
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Thanks, tellyouwhat, I never turn down praise! It was an honor to put that story in with DCLuke -- he did a GREAT job of writing about it. Jan
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Curious as to why Slate was chosen for the Best Picture ad. It's a rightwing flame site that ragged on BM for months. Shouldn't it be placed where at least some might appreciate it?
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I have been to the Slate home page several times since yesteday morning, looking for our ad. Never have seen it. Was it for yesterday only? What is the deal, please? Where else in Slate might I see it?
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I have been to the Slate home page several times since yesteday morning, looking for our ad. Never have seen it. Was it for yesterday only? What is the deal, please? Where else in Slate might I see it?
oh good. it wasn't only me. i suspect <??> it might require patience ??
jack
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Paintedshoes -- I'm sure one of the Ad team can give you the details -- but Ned told me that the ads are placed throughout the SLATE site -- that's why we chose to put several in TDS so that folks could more easily see them. Also, I know that our ad on the front page is up periodically, yesterday I refreshed through their other ads to see ours. Hope this helps until someone more knowledgeable comes along! Jan
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Thanks, Jan. I'll keep checking.
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Jack is right. Slate does require patience. Sometimes, I have to refresh a number of times before I see one of our ads. Our ads appear on all pages, just intermittent with a great number of other ad campaigns.
Pete
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Don't know if this will be of interest.
http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2006/05/17/2
It looks like as public opinion is swinging towards the idea gay folks should have the right to marriage, or at least it's legal equivalent, the far right is changing tactics again. Looks like we're going to see a lot more of protect our children from gay marriage. Maybe I'm just getting old, but every time I'm around folks that get whacked out about saving their children from the latest boogy man, the hair crawls up the back of my neck with the feeling of, 'what are you doing to your kids you aren't owning up to?'
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Curious as to why Slate was chosen for the Best Picture ad. It's a rightwing flame site that ragged on BM for months. Shouldn't it be placed where at least some might appreciate it?
I personally don't know anything about SLATE,
but it seems this question deserves a response...
?
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...the far right is changing tactics again. Looks like we're going to see a lot more of protect our children from gay marriage.
One thing, just throw it back at them by inserting or substituting words in their
reasoning, such as:
Protect our "gay" children from gay marriage.
Protect our children from "inter-racial" marriage.
etc.
Besides, it amuses one to do it as well...
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Curious as to why Slate was chosen for the Best Picture ad. It's a rightwing flame site that ragged on BM for months. Shouldn't it be placed where at least some might appreciate it?
I personally don't know anything about SLATE,
but it seems this question deserves a response...?
i have sneaking feeling that the writer here, samsung has confused slate with another publication altogether, or i missed a whole lot of "right wing flaming". i am not a regular reader, but any time i have read articles they always seemed well left of center. i just always found it a bit fussy or pretentious.
jack.
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I hope it's okay for a co-editor to respond to TDS - thanks for the Annie Proulx story, it's great to know she is speaking out against conformity in politics. Tell you what, she is my role model.
of course it is.
and i was also really happy to see the annie story, luke. i asked pete to put it on the top of the newsbox the minute i heard. (which i'm sure he would have anyway.)
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Curious as to why Slate was chosen for the Best Picture ad. It's a rightwing flame site that ragged on BM for months. Shouldn't it be placed where at least some might appreciate it?
i have sneaking feeling that the writer here, samsung has confused slate with another publication altogether, or i missed a whole lot of "right wing flaming". i am not a regular reader, but any time i have read articles they always seemed well left of center. i just always found it a bit fussy or pretentious.
jack.
thanks, jack.
i'm guessing that's the problem, too. mistaken identity sounds like the most reasonable explanation.
slate has lots of writers with lots of viewpoints, but in general, they are definitely a lefty magazine. and i've never heard them called a flame site. they're one of the most respected magazines in the country these days, web or print. there are two web magazines with reputations far above the rest of the pack: slate and salon. slate has a much bigger readership (ever since salon went to a paid-access model), so we went with slate. it is considered daily required reading in a lot of circles, right along with the new york times.
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Paintedshoes -- I'm sure one of the Ad team can give you the details -- but Ned told me that the ads are placed throughout the SLATE site -- that's why we chose to put several in TDS so that folks could more easily see them. Also, I know that our ad on the front page is up periodically, yesterday I refreshed through their other ads to see ours. Hope this helps until someone more knowledgeable comes along! Jan
exactly. we bought 1,343,750 impressions, but they are spread out over time, to maximize effectiveness. (a regular slate reader may read 3-5 stories there a day or more, and perhaps click on a few more to check them out. we don't want him/her to see our ad half a dozen times or more one after the other. we want it to keep appearing day after day, and to keep hitting different people.)
i can't remember the length of time it's likely to stay in rotation. pete?
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They think we should use up our impressions within three weeks. It has very high readership.
As Dave said, Slate is fairly left of center. I think their readership is one very in tune with the values of BBM.
Pete
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Thank you, Dave and Pete, for the info on the ad.
Modified: I just went to Slate and SAW the ad for the first time. It is awesome.
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Great news today about the completed site re-organization! My thanks to everyone involved.
I also really liked the segment about "Forum Entertains Troops in Iraq with Quit//No Quit". What a fantastic, important and endearing story.
(Not knowing anybody in the troops over in Iraq, and being a bit Jaked up lately, I couldn't help but picturing the Jarhead characters sit around and debate this.... ;))
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Bravo, brava, bravi, bravissimi! Go away for awhile, answering the call of activism, and log back onto to a site that just keeps on refining and a campaign that keeps on evolving, and a consciousness that just keeps on expanding, and I start to cry. It inexplicably gives me such hope, in so many directions, and it's deeply humbling. Bless this forum and them who administer it, and all who contribute to what done sprung up here. (sound of two hands clapping wildly) :) :'( :-*
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Today's Daily Sheet has an update on all of the current campaigns underway on this forum, with the conspicuous absence of any word about the academy/homophobia campaign, although there's been some good and active discussion about it, specifically by forum members TomS (the 1st member profile featured on the Saturday's Daily Sheet), Dan Wentzel and Guardian.
Just yesterday "Guardian" wrote:
"PeteinPortland (our moderator) –
We haven’t heard from you in a while. Are you moved by our observations? Has it affected your thinking? Has Dave Cullen been following this discussion? Could either one of you jump in here and give us your views. I know your initial response was not supportive of immediately taking on the Academy – or even taking them on at all. But perhaps our debate has changed your mind."
Perhaps if nothing is to be done in this area, we should close this particular campaign, as
those of us continuing our thoughts and observations may be wasting our time without any direction...
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Today's Daily Sheet has an update on all of the current campaigns underway on this forum, with the conspicuous absence of any word about the academy/homophobia campaign
Mooska -- Of course, Pete/Dave can (and I'm sure will) speak for themselves, but I suspect that Pete thought that by addressing the Ad campaign, he was updating the academy campaign. I think there is still interest on member's parts to do something just before either award nominations or the Academy Awards themselves -- at least I'm interested in that -- although, its not completely clear to me just exactly what our course of action should be. Jan
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I hope it's okay for a co-editor to respond to TDS - thanks for the Annie Proulx story, it's great to know she is speaking out against conformity in politics. Tell you what, she is my role model.
I was thrilled to meet with Annie Proulx and happy to share the details of my encounter with her. Meeting Annie will certainly be one of the highlights of the year for me. I know that she was quite pleased to learn about our existence and some of the projects that we have been working on.
What an meeting for you to have! I read your story about meeting Annie at that event and she certainly does seem to have been one Fascinating Woman. I wonder if she has always been such a firecracker. Because that's what she seemed like, a quiet firecracker with class! From your description she really WAS the highlight of that dinner, honest, open, fearless. There is nothing on earth like an older woman with passion and BRAINS....
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There is an online petition for Clergy opposed to the constitutional protect marriage from gay folk amendment. Might be worth checking out and passing on to your minister.
http://www.planetout.com/news/article.html?2006/05/23/2
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Today's Daily Sheet has an update on all of the current campaigns underway on this forum, with the conspicuous absence of any word about the academy/homophobia campaign
The initial part of that campaign has been over for some time (sending a letter to the Academy). However, every once in awhile a member wants contact info for AMPAS which is part of our reason for leaving that campaign thread open. We also feel there is a valid and good discussion going on there. While there may not be actions discussed as of yet that we feel warrant the forum's involvement, one never knows what ideas may come of such a in depth conversation.
Perhaps we should archive that thread soon. Thanks for the suggestion.
Pete
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I'm not sure I understand the entry in the Tuesday, May 23 Daily Sheet, about Fan Fiction. Does the story Taking Chances by Louisev actually exist somewhere, is it currently being written, or is the whole entry in the Daily Sheet just fiction? I must be missing something.
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What an meeting for you to have! I read your story about meeting Annie at that event and she certainly does seem to have been one Fascinating Woman. I wonder if she has always been such a firecracker. Because that's what she seemed like, a quiet firecracker with class! From your description she really WAS the highlight of that dinner, honest, open, fearless. There is nothing on earth like an older woman with passion and BRAINS....
Annie is indeed a classy woman and meeting her was the highlight of my evening at the dinner. Heck, it will probably be one of the top highlights of my entire year. My mother told me that she printed the picture of me with Annie and has it pinned to her bulletin board.
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I'm not sure I understand the entry in the Tuesday, May 23 Daily Sheet, about Fan Fiction. Does the story Taking Chances by Louisev actually exist somewhere, is it currently being written, or is the whole entry in the Daily Sheet just fiction? I must be missing something.
Here is the link to her LiveJournal where her story is posted: http://louisev.livejournal.com/
Hope this helps. Jan
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Jan,
Thanks for the link to Louisev's live journal. That's exactly what I needed.
nova20194
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Oops Slate has updated their link (5/24 funny of the day) but the good news is-- I described yesterday's cartoon in enough detail so you can imagine it from TDS, and if you click on the link you will see another cartoon re Da Vinci code. So actually two funnies of the day. Enjoy
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Today's Daily Sheet has an update on all of the current campaigns underway on this forum, with the conspicuous absence of any word about the academy/homophobia campaign
The initial part of that campaign has been over for some time (sending a letter to the Academy).
... While there may not be actions discussed as of yet that we feel warrant the forum's involvement, one never knows what ideas may come of such a in depth conversation.
Perhaps we should archive that thread soon. Thanks for the suggestion.
Pete
Pete, the ideas from the conversations on that thread are some of the best on this forum and maybe a different thread should be started for it--or merge it with the awards aftermath thread.
As for "there may not be actions discussed that we feel warrant the forum's involvement", well, if not US (the forum and members) then who? NO ONE is dealing with the things we are discussing there. Not the general press, the gay press, etc. No one. If not us, who? If not now, when?
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brokeback_1 wrote:--A homesick young soldier from Wyoming with internet access stumbled across a link to the Forum. Knowing nothing about Brokeback Mountain, he checked out the site and found the debate. When his friends asked what he was looking at, he said it appeared to be an online war. Pressed for further details, he explained that it seemed to be a debate between two opposing camps bitterly arguing whether or not one fictional gay cowboy had left the other fictional gay cowboy in the film Brokeback Mountain.
After doubting his sanity several soldiers checked it out for themselves. Before many days had elapsed 5 or 6 of the younger soldiers in his unit were following the posts, augmented with information collected from various sources and a copy of the short story from the original collection, sent along with many other books by someone's relatives. Straight boys all, without ever seeing the film, had begun to debate it among themselves.
Soon, one could hear heated conversations in the streets of Baghdad, with lines like "I can't see the Texan just walking out after 20 years," and "Why did he STAY 20 years, I'm glad he walked!" My personal favorite? "We could use Ennis in this unit."
But perhaps the finest line was spoken by one of these young soldiers while on patrol in Baghdad, dodging street bombs: "Baghdad, I wish I could quit YOU!"
I am constantly amazed by the things I read on this site. Just when I thought there was nothing else about BBM that could surprise me, I read this post and the hair stood up on the back of my neck. Maybe there is hope for the human race after all.
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WLAGuy, I 2nd that! What an amazing piece on the soldiers in Iraq! Thanks, Daily Sheet!! :)
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Thanks to everyone who responded to that story, I stand by it.
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This wonderful story was brought to us by brokeback_1 who is actually related to one of the soldiers who told all of this to him (his brother's nephew). In some ways, the story sounds too good to be true, so it is very exciting that brokeback_1 was actually able to give us all of the details and verify all of this for us.
A big thanks to one of our Daily Sheet Editors, tellyouwhat, for following up on this and bringing it all to our attention.
I know there is some discussion about maybe putting together a care package for these Brokeback Baghdad soldiers to show we are thinking of them. We will be sure to give you all the details as they develop.
Thanks again to everyone involved with this wonderful story.
Pete
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I'm guessing one or two of the soldiers might have a portable DVD player, so a few copies of the BBM DVD would probably get a lot of use.
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For those interested in the situation developing in Moscow, here is an update:
Part 1:
Russian Police Attack Activists, Disrupt Banned Moscow Gay March
MOSCOW, May 27, 2006 (Special to davecullen.com) -- Several hundred Russian OMON special anti-riot police detachments, as well as groups of Russian nationalists, militant Russian Orthodox believers and neo-fascists attacked local and foreign gay rights activists in Moscow Saturday, disrupting the Russian capital's first ever planned -- and banned -- gay rights march.
Police arrested more than 120 people, mainly gay activists, including 28-year-old Nikolai Alexeyev, leader of the gay rights organization GayRussia, as he and other supporters attempted to approach the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Alexandrovsky Gardens near the Kremlin -- one of Russia's most sacred and honored places -- to lay flowers in a symbolic protest equating the fight for gay rights with the war against Nazi Germany.
The gay activists were outnumbered at least twofold by men and women carrying Russian Orthodox icons and chanting "Moscow is not Sodom."
As a hundred nationalist youths, some wearing clinical face-masks -- apparently to guard their identity -- chanted "Glory to Russia!", several trampled on a rainbow-colored ribbon -- a symbol of gay rights -- into the ground.
"This is a perverts' parade," said one Christian protester holding an icon of the Madonna, a woman who gave only her first name, Irina. "This is filth, which is forbidden by God. We have to cleanse the world of this filth."
Police closed the gates to the park where the eternal flame burns under the Kremlin walls, and a large group of Christian Orthodox women singing hymns, together with a group of shaven-headed nationalists, many dressed in black, tried to charge into the gay activists as they arrived at the park gates.
"The entrance to the park was closed when we got there and there was a crowd of people outside, what most people would call neo-fascists," said Robert Wintemute, a professor at King's College in London and one of the foreign gay activists who took part in the protest.
"There was a scuffle and then I saw police taking Nikolai Alexeyev away and putting him in a police van. After that, neo-fascist thugs started running wild here and there. Thugs kicked Merlin Holland, the grandson of Oscar Wilde. I've never seen such things," Wintemute said.
"This is a great victory, an absolute victory -- look at what's happening," Alexeyev said as he was dragged, bent almost double, away from the gates by two policemen.
Volker Beck, a gay German member of parliament who attended the rally, had blood on his face after being punched in the face. Images of Beck, a leader of the Greens party and a prominent gay rights leader, being hit in the face were broadcast by German television.
"I was attacked," Beck said. "It was a stone and a fist. It shows we're not safe in this country. The security forces did not protect us but instead prevented us from retreating. We were left without any protection."
“It is inadmissible that police wouldn’t protect peaceful gays and lesbians from hooligans,” he said.
Volker Eichler, a gay activist from Berlin who witnessed the beating, said police did not intervene. He said Beck had been giving an interview to a television crew when about 20 nationalist youths surrounded him and pummeled him, bloodying his nose.
"What happened today unfortunately is representative of the non-respect for human rights in Russia. You can't express your point of view, and you are not protected from extremists," said French gay activist Sebastien Maria.
Philippe Lasnier, who was heading a delegation from the office of Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe, was briefly arrested.
Russia's official Itar-Tass news agency, citing a police official, reported that the deputy mayor of an unidentified German city had been detained together with other foreign gay activists taking part in the rally.
Alexeyev had invited gay activists from all across Europe to the march, the culmination of three days of events that were a first Russian attempt to hold a Gay Pride festival like those in Western cities.
"We came here to lay flowers at this anti-fascist memorial, but the mayor is so terrified of us that he took the step of ordering the gates closed," said Peter Tatchell from the British gay rights group OutRage.
"As soon as we arrived we were set upon by fascist gangs and police. Today is a great shame for Russia because a peaceful protest has been suppressed," he said. "Both the authorities and the fascists had the same objective -- to suppress the Moscow gay pride," Tatchell said.
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Part 2 - Moscow
Regular Moscow city police reinforcements backed by hundreds of OMON anti-riot troops tracked gay activist protesters and hundreds of nationalists ranging from "skinheads" -- young Russian nationalists who have grown in number in recent years and have been behind a series of attacks on foreign students -- to members of Cossack and Orthodox Slav groups along Tverskaya street, a main avenue in Moscow within walking distance of the Kremlin and Red Square.
At one point, police had formed a line between the two sides, but a group of skinheads rushed toward the gay activists.
Their faces masked, they threw flares as they ran, but OMON riot police stopped them and dragged them to waiting buses, as passers-by outside the parliament building looked on in disbelief.
There were minor scuffles at various places on the street, including outside the State Duma, the lower chamber of Russia's parliament. Reporters at the scene said the confrontation between the gay activists and their opponents included aggressive posturing and shouting of insults such as "Moscow is not Sodom" by the hardline nationalist supporters.
But bands of skinheads attacked the gay rights activists in front of the mayor's office, disrupting a plan to leave a letter protesting the ban on the gay pride march.
Besides the arrest of the gay activists, police detained dozens of young nationalists, in some cases putting them in the same detention centers.
At the same time, policemen in Bolshaya Dmitrovka Street, near the Bolshoi Theatre, blocked a group of 150 neo-fascists who were heading for the mayor's office intent on clashing with the gay activists. They were asked to leave, and nobody in this group was detained.
Moscow Mayor Yury Luzhkov had banned gay activists from holding a parade in the city center, a decision supported by Russian religious groups and religious leaders of all faiths, and upheld by a court where it was challenged on Friday.
“I believe that such a parade is inadmissible in our country above all for moral considerations,” Luzhkov said, stressing that “people should not make public their deviations in the sphere of organization of life and sex.”
The Moscow mayor admitted that his decision to ban the gay parade “caused a storm of publications in the Western press, severely criticising the actions of the Mayor’s Office.”
“However, I said at once that we would not even consider a possibility of holding such a parade,” he said. Luzhkov claimed that 99 percent of Muscovites had supported the ban.
"As long as I am mayor, we will not permit these parades to be conducted," he said.
Protest organizers had said they would try to hold two demonstrations in defiance of the ban.
"Homophobia is part of the larger problem of xenophobia" in Russia today, Alexeyev said at a news conference ahead of the march.
"This country defeated fascism and today it is again on the rise," he said.
"We are conducting a peaceful action. We want to show that we have the same rights as other citizens," Alexeyev said, noting that by banning the march, the city government had broken the law. Russia's Constitution guarantees the right of assembly to all citizens.
In his decision to prohibit the parade, Luzhkov had said such a march was morally "inadmissible" because people should not publicly display their "deviations in the sphere of organization of life and sex". Other city officials called the gay rights march an "outrage to society."
The issue of the gay rights march has split Moscow's gay community, many of whom say that Russian society is still too conservative and that a parade would only provoke more violence from skinheads and radical groups. Some activists said the march only risked inflaming Russia's widespread intolerance of homosexuality, and wished Alexeyev had chosen a less direct way to protest against discrimination and homophobia.
Homosexuality was decriminalized in Russia in 1993 -- Saturday being the 13th anniversary of the decree's adoption -- and although some gay clubs exist in big cities, same-sex couples almost never make a public display of their affections.
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BBM-MMM -- We so appreciate you taking the time to post this detailed account of what occurred today. I've been watching Moscow Times.com and gotten almost no info. It certainly is an appalling situation -- thanks for letting us know. Jan
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There is an error in today's (Sat) TDS -- credit was given to the wrong person for the photo capture. It should have gone to tfmisc Sorry, tfmisc! Jan
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Bbm-mmm, thank you for the update on the situation in Moscow. I will be writing a letter to the Russian ambassador (he lives blocks from me!). I had been considering a 2007 trip to Russia, but that is out of the question now.
If any of my fellow Americans wish to join me in writing a letter to the Russian Ambassador, his contact information is as follows:
Ambassador Yuri V. Ushakov
Embassy of the Russian Federation
2650 Wisconsin Ave., NW
Washington, DC 20007
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The webcam link is stunning - thanks. I clicked on a link from it & found out about mountain top weddings.
http://www.kunelius.com/index.html
http://www.kunelius.com/casual.html
Imagine getting married on "Brokeback". I've been engaged for about 5 years & so far have been uninspired to organise a wedding, but this has got me thinking...
TB
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I can't believe my eyes teared up when I saw the mountain webcam. :'(
Thanks for ruining my day....!!
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The webcam link is stunning - thanks. I clicked on a link from it & found out about mountain top weddings.
http://www.kunelius.com/index.html
http://www.kunelius.com/casual.html
Imagine getting married on "Brokeback". I've been engaged for about 5 years & so far have been uninspired to organise a wedding, but this has got me thinking...
TB
TB, that is really exciting! I'm glad you were inspired.
John John, isn't it amazing how the mountain grabs you. I love the way the view changes with the time of day and updates.
Courage. Our lives after Brokeback require courage. (French pronunciation - a tad more dramatic.)
Ellen
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tellyouwhat's Daily Sheet (5/31) is just great. I don't think there is life "after" Brokeback because it gets integrated or assimilated into our consciousness, our selves. It's changed everything and there's no going back.
Come to think of it, I don't think there is a "before" Brokeback either because , as amdaz said: [I've seen it] “16 times (at this writing)…Tell you what... I have been waiting to see this movie all my life." We all knew it was there. It just took a long, long time to arrive.
I'm looking forward to the BBQ in August.
Thanks for a great sheet!
Mark (Wiley)
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I don't think there is life "after" Brokeback because it gets integrated or assimilated into our consciousness, our selves. It's changed everything and there's no going back.
Wiley, thank you for reading, and thank you for answering my question! I was beginning to suspect as much.
I will be glad to see you at the Texas BBQ.
Ellen (tellyouwhat)
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This week might be the best week ever for The Daily Sheet! Tellyouwhat (Ellen) and Cactusgal (Jan) spend a great amount of time to put out this awesome feature for our site.
A great big thanks to them. Excellent work!
Also, a big thanks to Sharyn, the Editorial Assistant, and the many contributors. Thank you all!
Pete
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I now start my day, not with reading "The Washington Post", as I have done for 40 years, but by reading "The Daily Sheet'. My priorities are finally correct. Thank you to all the staff.
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The Jack interview in today's TDS!! :-* :-* :-* :-* ! I'm so glad he was in the sheet. It's funny, I was actually thinking about Jack yesterday thinking I really should pm him about how much I appreciate his posts because they're often witty and always caring. Now is a good opportunity as ever to say it out loud instead. :)
I also enjoyed the part about the Brits 100 page celebration. :D ... I think I know who represents the Oops part. ;D
Thanks to everyone who works with the Daily Sheet! :-*
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Thanks to everyone who works on the Daily Sheet.
I read it every day! :)
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I can't believe my eyes teared up when I saw the mountain webcam. :'(
Thanks for ruining my day....!!
(((HUGS JOHN)))).............there...there...it's alright
Nellie :-*
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Like paintedshoes, I also like starting my day with the daily sheet.
I've been on this forum since December and have enjoyed so many threads---But the daily sheet kick-starts it all at the beginning of the day.
A special thank-you to all the editors and contibutors as well.
Rich (Chicago)
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This is a bit picky, but since our medium is, in fact, the written word you can't be too picky, IMO. The Daily Sheet refers to the Marquis of Queensbury rules. It is in fact the Marquess of Queensbury. Marquis is the French spelling of a similar title held by the Englishman, the Marquess of Queensbury. Just an FYI.
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MTV Movies Awards--They Love Our Little Darlin
Well, the rest of the world agrees with us. That kiss between Jake and Heath was pretty darn hot! Jake and Heath won for Best Kiss at the MTV Movie Awards. The awards were handed out last night and will air on June 8th (and repeatedly after that for the next month). As the news is everywhere, and it is four days until the awards air, we felt safe to bring our forum members the much anticipated news.
Jake was present to accept the award for best kiss. Here is what he had to say:
“This is a real honor, not just for me and Heath but for all of you, that you picked this movie and this kiss over all the other ones.”
Awww. Thank you Jake. You just made the crowd at Eyelashes love you even more (if that is even possible).
Even better, Jake also won for Best Performance, beating out Reese Witherspoon among others.
All-in-all, it was a good night for Brokeback Mountain as the younger generation showed the rest of the world how important our movie is to them and how that special kiss and these special performances deserve to be recognized.
For more information, you can check out the MSNBC article on the awards:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13124173/
This is wonderful news for BBM, and for Jake's and Heath's careers, and for their fans! Thanks to the Daily Sheet for pointing out the results.
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I now start my day, not with reading "The Washington Post", as I have done for 40 years, but by reading "The Daily Sheet'. My priorities are finally correct. Thank you to all the staff.
What a nice thing to say. And how true, for many, I'm sure. :)
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This is a bit picky, but since our medium is, in fact, the written word you can't be too picky, IMO. The Daily Sheet refers to the Marquis of Queensbury rules. It is in fact the Marquess of Queensbury. Marquis is the French spelling of a similar title held by the Englishman, the Marquess of Queensbury. Just an FYI.
Thanks, twistedboy, I was wondering about that (having heard it pronounced with the hard s sound by everyone, including John Wayne in "The Quiet Man.") But I figured it was a mispronunciation. Well, no point in blaming anybody else, when in doubt quote trivia and change the subject!
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When I saw today's Daily Sheet and the photo of the Northern Mockingbird (state bird of Texas) in honor of "Jack", it reminded me of the film To Kill a Mockingbird, which I saw a couple weeks ago.
Does anyone have a copy of the book or film? There is a passage where Scout describes the effects of killing a mockingbird and relates it to the taking of a human life. It seems to me that beautiful prose would relate to Jack's demise. If someone could post that I think it would be nice.
By the way, when Jake Gyllenhaal was a guest on the Tonight Show, he mentioned that a fan of Brokeback Mountain had sent to him, as a gift, a signed first edition of To Kill a Mockingbird. Maybe the fan had connected these thoughts together as well.
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^Gaah, I just began reading "To Kill A Mockingbird" the other day so I'm not there yet with that quote you refer to. (I'm sure somebody else could find it, though.)
About Jake and this book, I've read here and there that it is said to be one of his favourite books (and that his dogs are named after the characters Atticus and Boo Radley...?).
About today's Daily Sheet, really great news about new films for Heath and Jake!
I also loved the Post of The Day. Really great expression that we're like one person in here.
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I a pretty sure the quote is: "Remember , it is a sin to kill a mockingbird", and it comes somewhere around chapter 10 or 11. Scout remembers Atticus telling her that but she is not sure what it means. She asks the lady next or door, or across the street. It ends up being one of the major themes of the book about how it is the responsibility of society to protect the innocent and vulnerable as symbolised by Tom and Boo and, of course, in several other ways (saving the roly poly bug).
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Today's daily sheet lists September 22, 2006, as the release date for Jake's "Zodiac." I'm hoping this is correct---can't get here too soon for me. However, on www.comingsoon.net the release date is now posted as November 22, the day before Thanksgiving (they earlier had the September date). There was some talk about the release date being pushed back to November in order to be nearer the awards season, since November and December are traditionally the release months for "serious" films that harbor Oscar ambitions.
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Just wanted to say I love the daily sheet. I try to read it everyday. It's got great stuff in it and I like the member profiles.
And seeing that I am a huge fan of fanfic, I like that the authors are featured. It's their stories that helped me get over the
intense pain of BBM and find a way to cope.
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Thanks bcatjr and everyone who has been so supportive of TDS.
After we went to "press" today, I found out just a little more about the Zagat survey. After you have completed your survey, you will be given one chance to vote for your all-time favorite movie and, of course, we hope you won't miss that opportunity to vote for the one and only BBM! Jan
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I did the Zagat Survey just now because the Daily Sheet entry said it was EASY.
And it was! Always like to place a check next to Brokeback Mountain!
P.S.: I also noticed that Crash is listed as a "fantasy!"
That made me laugh!
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Hi all -- the link to the Christion Science Monitor's review of Larry McMurtry's new novel has expired, sorry about that! Yesterday it worked but I didn't know they expire their links after four days. At least we know the review was very favorable.
Meanwhile, there are two reviews posted on Amazon. Of course I would be remiss if I didn't remind you to enter Amazon through our booksotre link just in case you end up buying something while you're there. Thanks for reading TDS! - Ellen
http://www.davecullen.com/brokeback/store/
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http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=352
and I thought this was my original contribution to Art!!!!
M.
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here's something I'd like to see added to TDS, under upcoming events (forgive me if this has been posted... I really can't keep up): Teddy Thompson is on the programme at the Edmonton, Alberta Folklife Festival August 11-13. There are a lot of other wonderful acts on the bill, too, including another act from the BBM soundtrack, Linda Ronstadt.
Imagine Teddy singing "I Don't Want To Say Goodbye" right there in Alberta", where it all happened... it sets my heart aflutter. :-)
Here's the programme: http://www.edmontonfolkfest.org/004.performers/004-02.programme.htm?ffref=folkflash
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This is a bit picky, but since our medium is, in fact, the written word you can't be too picky, IMO. The Daily Sheet refers to the Marquis of Queensbury rules. It is in fact the Marquess of Queensbury. Marquis is the French spelling of a similar title held by the Englishman, the Marquess of Queensbury. Just an FYI.
I'm not certain that's correct, TB.
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From Saturday's Daily Sheet
We were surprised to learn that the owner still hasn't seen BBM (One of our members has just sent him the DVD). Consequently, he can't yet realize the importance of this house in film history. One of our Canadian members has pledged to help him with the costs of fencing and protection; another is willing to donate time to help repair the house, and we suspect many others would gladly pay a fee to view the house if it were preserved. As of yet though, the owner remains unconvinced there is sufficient interest to merit this effort.
So, where do we start?
Do we want to see the house preserved in some way? Do you see yourself making the trip to Alberta to see the BBM shooting locations? Would you be willing to write a testimonial about the power of the scenes filmed in the Twist home? Can we encourage him to at least protect it a little more effectively – perhaps a fence?
The immediate problem is to get Mr. Hixt to accept/provide better protection for the house. If this isn't addressed very soon, we won't have to worry about preserving the house, it will be gone.
Why don't we show him the "love" that he didn't get from the movie folks? A postcard campaign to him may be just the thing to let him know that there are many of us out there that care about the preservation of his house. We can do this; we've done it before when we wanted to thank the movie's stars.
Here is the address: Mr. Larry Hixt,
Box 64
Beiseker, AB
Canada, TOM OGO
US Post Office says it takes fifty-five cents to send a regular size post card from anywhere in the USA to Canada. (Sixty-three cents for a regular letter). Be sure to keep you comments positive and encouraging and most importantly let him know the importance of his house.
Can't you envision it right now? Ennis -- sitting at the kitchen table, - - in Jack's room, - - looking out the window, - - finding the shirts, - - taking the bag from Jack's Mom. The significance of this house can't be measured to us; let's be part of the solution to keep it around.
Let's get writing, people. And something must be done. But what and how. Must think about this.
Security cameras linked to owner's home or local police? A big new fence? It all depends on the location, you Canadians/Albertan Brokeaholics have to go scout it out for us and report back on the details of the location. How much will it cost to buy the house, I wonder?
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This is a bit picky, but since our medium is, in fact, the written word you can't be too picky, IMO. The Daily Sheet refers to the Marquis of Queensbury rules. It is in fact the Marquess of Queensbury. Marquis is the French spelling of a similar title held by the Englishman, the Marquess of Queensbury. Just an FYI.
I'm not certain that's correct, TB.
Well, I looked it up on the internet and in the dictionary and both appear to be correct. I'm sticking with the English spelling, just cuz I want to. :P :P
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If we seriously want to preserve the Twist house, we need to set up a trust and buy it. Any one in Canada interested in being a live in caretaker? That's the only way we can assure the house survives. More than that, we would have to accept repair to the house and property to a higher standard than they were in the film. Best I remember, the roof on the house looked like it was about to turn to compost. From certain angles the house looks like it has settled on its foundation. To save, and preserve this monument could easily run into tens of thousands of of dollars. Do we want to accept what it will cost to put the house back up in shape and restore the parts we saw in the film? If you want a caretaker to say with the place, other rooms in the house should be made a heck of a lot more livable. But, if we were gonna do this, sending all those post cards is not the thing to do.
Seeing the owner gets what was promised by Focus, is not only the right thing to do, it would be a feather in our cap if we decided to take the house on in a preservation capacity. Hmmm... I wonder if it would be worth it to think of the place as a Bed and Breakfast? I think I might drive to Canada for a piece of cherry cake. Could it make enough money to defray a good bit of the cost of upkeep?
On the vandalism... let me guess, souvenir hunters. Ohhh... Heath touched this wall!!! Grrrrr.... What, is some idiot gonna put it on ebay? Or is some fool gonna use it to display their shirts.... Gaaahhhhh!!!!
What about the house Ennis was living in when Jack came up after Ennis's divorce?
Just ah ponderun...
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i agree with garry, with an addendum.
as i was reading the post, i thought the first order of business was to get an architect/contractor or whatever up there and be sure there was enough house to save. i don't think it would be the same to build a new house LIKE the old house.
if you want to see the best example of this kind of grass roots action i know of, those of you in new england can visit the WILSON HOUSE. it is a house one of the founders of AA was born in. it was bought buy a committee of AA members and turned into a small hotel or large B&B and AA retreat, with historical papers and period furniture and books. it is maintained solely by member cash and labor donations, and is veryinexpensive to stay in. needless to say, there are daily AA meetings, but it would be an inspiration for anyone who wanted to attempt to save the TWIST HOUSE. ;D ;D
jack
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We do have a thread for this campaign to help save the Twist house. You can find it here:
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=10356.msg291220#msg291220
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I had to edit a little bit of this story because Focus was mentioned, and in context of all the information we have, probably should not have been.
Sorry for the confusion!
Pete
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Thank you, Ellen, Jan, and Sharyn for another great edition of The Daily Sheet. And I'm not just saying that because you mentioned the book project in it today. ;) You all always find the funniest, most important, most newsworthy, and most intriguing stories. Although I don't have as much time as I'd like to seek out all the cool nooks and crannies of the Forum, I feel like you all give me the real flavor of what's happening here each day.
Another technique I've used to keep up is to go to the main page and read the 10 most recent posts. The other day, they involved a discussion of salad shooters and salad spinners, weird dreams, a beautiful flower photo, some comments about how our parents raised us, a summary of the reasons Bush should be impeached, the difference between a couple of British and American terms, and a pumpkin cake recipe. Long way from Jack and Ennis, although we never leave them behind for long!
Bottom line is, I love The Daily Sheet!
- KittyHawk
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Kitty Hawk, I love your idea of reading the ten most recent posts to keep up with forum news! I'm so glad you like our Daily Sheet.
I am posting because I should have added the name of another contributor today. I need to thank Mooska for his investigative reporting in tracking down the rumor that the shirts are on exhibit (believe me, this was not easy to verify - they are not listed on the museum's website, nor does anyone seem to answer the phone). Mooska also tracked down the contact information for Tom Gregory. TG is very busy screening his communications, as you can imagine, but he graciously took time to respond to our forum.
So that is my behind-the-scenes story at the Daily Sheet. Thanks, Mooska!
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This is a bit picky, but since our medium is, in fact, the written word you can't be too picky, IMO. The Daily Sheet refers to the Marquis of Queensbury rules. It is in fact the Marquess of Queensbury. Marquis is the French spelling of a similar title held by the Englishman, the Marquess of Queensbury. Just an FYI.
I'm not certain that's correct, TB.
Well, I looked it up on the internet and in the dictionary and both appear to be correct. I'm sticking with the English spelling, just cuz I want to. :P :P
GOTCHA! ;D ;D ;D
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Woo Hoo Jan,
Thanks for highlighting Jenna ... THE top writer we have in the slash world.
And for CYN poetry. It was awesome!
Thank YOU!
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I like the variety in today's TDS - some amusing stuff, some serious stuff and some pics to gawp at! Excellently balanced!
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Re: Internet Neutrality. Daily sheet, June 16, 2006.
This morning I saw a television message claiming that internet neutrality was an anti-consumer campaign on the part of Google to make the consumer pay more for the internet. That message is an outright lie; the companies that own the transmission 'lines', most notably SBC, which bought AT & T and then renamed the whole thing ''AT & T'', want to charge Google and other companies an extra fee just for using the lines and based on bandwidth, even though the use of the lines is already paid for by the consumer in other ways. This amounts to making the consumers pay twice for the same lines. Google and other companies and consumer groups are fighting against this extra charge by trying to get Congress to legislate guaranteed ''internet neutrality'', making the extra usage charge illegal.
Lance -- that is why this issue is so tricky! The business friendly side (our congress) claims they want to leave things "as is" by not writing any new laws to protect. The other side (the good guys IMO) want to enact some kind of regulation, so it takes action to keep things the way they are now, rather than inaction. And you are absolutely right, the opposition is trying to muddy the waters, kind of like the "healthy forest" bill (which means it's okay to cut down trees) or "blue skies" (weaken anti-pollution laws)
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I was pleased to see that you picked up the story from the UK about the severe sentence meted out to the two men who gay-bashed the 24-year old barman, Jody Dobrowski, to death on Clapham Common. But you cited the story in such a way that you missed the key point of it as a news item here in the UK.
The point is that this case was the top news story that evening on all newschannels. The reason for this is that the killers received a more severe sentence precisely because their crime was motivated by homophobia under new Hate Crime laws here in the UK. These provide for a high sentence for hate-motivated crimes against minority groups. This was the first major case where this has been applied so the publicity sent out a very powerful message from the courts that anti-gay violence will be dealt with severely and that it is not acceptable in the UK. And the police made a particular point of emphasising that they want to hear from gay men and lesbians who have experienced harassment of any kind. All good things to offset a dreadful tragedy.
Finally, the point of the story was also that it was Jody's mother who is being quoted in the latter part of your story, which I think deserves to be recognised.
So, thanks for highlighting the story but I'd appreciate it if you would draw people's attention to the above as they seem to me to be the crucial and most encouraging and significant aspects of the story which you've missed out so far.
Thanks
Patroclus
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I love the Odes to Jake and Heath. Very clever and made me start my day with a smile.
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Anyone who can get to the Fox Theatre for the BBM screening on June 29th, do it!!
The Fox is one of the surviving 1920s "movie palaces", barely saved from the wrecking ball in the early 1980s. Any film you see there will be a special occasion. If you can get a balcony seat, the 'special effects' on the ceiling of stars and clouds (the latter actually seem to move) might be especially effective during the outdoor scenes. I recall it about took the top of my head off the time I saw Close Encounters from that vantage point. :o
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Hi,
I was glad to see the link to bluehorse's comments in TDS on Sunday. I really liked her way of expressing her views about BBM and summarising them (they also happen to align with what I think to a tee, but am completely unable to say in a remotely coherent fashion). I guess that's why you posted it in the TDS, or was it a veiled dig at the usual level of discussion in the slash thread?! ;D
TB
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Hi,
I was glad to see the link to bluehorse's comments in TDS on Sunday. I really liked her way of expressing her views about BBM and summarising them (they also happen to align with what I think to a tee, but am completely unable to say in a remotely coherent fashion). I guess that's why you posted it in the TDS, or was it a veiled dig at the usual level of discussion in the slash thread?! ;D
TB
I'm glad you enjoyed the piece --- I liked it too and that's why it was used. BTW, the slashies also bring us incredible poems, haikus, limericks and a lot of creative writing - besides having a heck of a lot of fun over there. Jan
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Great Daily Sheet today as always!
How cool that BBM is going to get up in the big screen again in Atlanta! Very good news also about the BBM t-shirt store.
Nice to read about Auntie's anticipations re BBQ and to see little Killer getting ready for all the real or imagined Jack&Ennises. Loved that photo cap thread pic. :D
PS: I'm supposed to send in some favorite Heath & Jake pics...
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GREAT daily sheet today!
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I just read in the "couldn't start my day without" daily sheet that there are illustrations in Close Range? My copy doesn't have them. Is there another edition of it? My copy is from Scribner's. I sure would like to see this.
Thanks a million for the Daily Sheet!
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I just read in the "couldn't start my day without" daily sheet that there are illustrations in Close Range? My copy doesn't have them. Is there another edition of it? My copy is from Scribner's. I sure would like to see this.
Thanks a million for the Daily Sheet!
John-John - The answer is YES, the first hard cover editions of Close Range have water color illustrations by William Matthews in front of most of the stories. The illustration for Brokeback Mountain is what I assume to be Jack -- an older version of Jack (with a mustache), and eagle feather in his hat, leading a horse.
Do I own this book? NO, sadly. I bought a hardcover edition off e-bay, not realizing there actually was a hard-cover printing without the illustrations. Last I looked the book w/ illustrations was going for over $30, maybe more by now. But I was so lucky to find the book with illustrations at my public library. That book is still in my possession now (legally checked out).
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Thanks Tellyouwhat, I'll check it out at the library.
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This is a note to all those who took us up on the "subscribe to the Daily Sheet" feature. While ironing out a technical glitch today, the TDS team entered the thread more than usual, resulting in excess "notifications" sent to your inboxes.
Please forgive us, and stay subscribed! That level of activity in our thread is, I can assure you, a one shot thing.
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Beyond Brokeback: The Impact of a Film :) It seems so simple and so right, especially since I've done some looking around on the Tech Team Volunteer Communication thread and have a better idea of the variety of stories that will be included. It turns out that some of our suggestions were too limiting in scope.
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That article concerning Heath's 'commonsensical' reply to his fans about his and Jake's friendship was great. It always baffled me when people started speculating about it all. They are two guys who got along so famously that Heath and Michelle made Jake their daughter's GODFATHER. Did people think they did that as a publicity stunt for a FILM??? Not for nothing, Michelle is also friends with Jake--as might be IMPLIED when she made him Matilda's godfather, with her husband!!! I wonder when people will get around to questiong THAT.
Tellyouwhat, you have a tendency to pick really good stories....
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Aw BB-1, thanks, but I have to tell the truth, I get by with a little help from my friends! In this case, karind1, ace reporter. I'm happy to give her credit.
With regard to Heath and Jake, your points are well made. I have posted somewhere before, when you're a famous young actor who made a film where you acted outside your sexual orientation and you're looking for somebody else who really understands you, -- who ya gonna call?? Who ELSE?
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great daily sheet today as always - really liked DCLuke's column about "Brokeback" expressions! It is really a concept nowadays.
I also loved the photocap of the day! :D
And, of course, the Post of the Day. Beautiful. (I share that experience of not knowing anything really about BBM or the actors etc before I saw it for the first time in a theater.)
"Americans' Circle of Close Friends Shrinking" - interesting observation. ..
thanks!
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Hi folks!
I'm afraid there's been an error in the daily sheet, the post of the day was not by me but by Cameron816, he was replying to one of my post.
It's still a great post though!
John
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Thanks Elvan -- glad you enjoyed it. We are very fortunate to have DCLuke as a columinist! John John -- sorry for the mix-up! Jan
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Today's daily sheet mentions the website with the poll for best actor. I go there, and Jake has 40% of the votes, Heath something like 15%. Everyone else has 1 or 2%. Think the Forum people have been there? :) :)
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Anyone who can get to the Fox Theatre for the BBM screening on June 29th, do it!!
The Fox is one of the surviving 1920s "movie palaces", barely saved from the wrecking ball in the early 1980s. Any film you see there will be a special occasion. If you can get a balcony seat, the 'special effects' on the ceiling of stars and clouds (the latter actually seem to move) might be especially effective during the outdoor scenes. I recall it about took the top of my head off the time I saw Close Encounters from that vantage point. :o
Hi Marge --
I just saw your post. I was there, along with many others. The Fox turned out to be a great venue for this film. There should be something in TDS soon.
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I just want to say that today's Daily Sheet made me a bit misty-eyed (softy that I am). First the cover on our book was finally unveiled. I know the hours and hours it took to produce this magnificent cover, and it is the very first part of our book we have been able to show to the public! Most people are not aware of the hundreds of volunteer hours being put into this massive project and what a huge undertaking it is.
Then there are the wonderful photos of our members of our community gathering in Atlanta and what a wonderful experience that was for all involved. BBM is such a special thing for all of us, and the most important part, I think, is the community that has grown from it.
Finally, I am always awestruck (and no, this is not hyperbole) at the great job that tellyouwhat and cactusgal do each day with the Daily Sheet. The stories, the photos, everything is so great. These two ladies volunteer a great amount of time (and put up with a lot of crap from me) in order to produce this document each day. We all owe them both a big thank you for their efforts, and I am probably guilty of not saying it enough. So thank you, Ellen and Jan. Great work. Our forum is lucky to have you both!
Pete
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Thank you soooo much for sharing the new cover for the Book. It is awesome, and I'm so proud of it that I could bust.
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You guys did a GREAT job on the book cover. I was trying to read the small print..ha ha ha...gave me goose bumps!!
Nellie :)
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Great to see the book cover! I have some litte idea about all the work put into making the book so I really really understand how exciting it is to have the final cover version done! :)
The Atlanata get-together story was a real BBQ teaser! Great pictures of the theater. Would have loved to be there. Just think about it; watching BBM in a full theater with mostly (all?) huge BBM fans, and then talk about it afterwards... it's like doing the forum thing IRL. 8)
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PS!
I forgot to say the other day that it was very nice to read the profiles of Adrian and DaveinPhilly!
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Heads up. Heath and Jake were invited to join the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/5153130.stm
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Heads up. Heath and Jake were invited to join the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/5153130.stm
Check out the Awards Aftermath Thread where a discussion about this is beginning,
as well as a couple links to articles about it.
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=1643.7665
Questions being raised: Why wasn't Michelle Williams invited?
How are these decisions of inclusion/exclusion made and by whom?
Were Rodrigo, Gustavo and the writer's dissed as well?
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Peteinportland
Interesting article about Thai gay responses to BBM. I have met quite a few gay Thai men. The attitude your Thai friend/s report is most prominent among the many Thai of recent Chinese descent. Their families tend to be very homophobic and I guess it is influenced by traditional Chinese concepts of filial piety. Chinese men are expected to have sons who will continue the worship of the ancestors and provide for their spirits in the afterlife.
Some Thai families of ethnic Thai or Lao descent seem to be a little more relaxed about it. I have met single gay men in their mid to late 30s who successfully resist all attempts by family and matchmakers to marry them off. They often have a don’t ask-don’t tell relationship with their parents and otherwise get on well together. Single gay men often support their parents and build a house for them. Sometimes their siblings seem to know explicitly and accept their brother’s sexuality. I have been invited to stay with partners’ parents’ houses upcountry and been welcomed and put to bed on the same mat under the same mosquito net with their son, though we don’t behave demonstratively when we are with the family. But I have had adult brothers hold my hand and openly cuddle up to me in an affectionate way. The most homophobic attitudes seem to be expressed by Thais who have had some experience of education in the West.
I saw BBM together with my Thai partner in Bangkok. He was very moved by the experience and it prompted him to recall the memory of realising he was gay and feeling very isolated and lonely. I guess he had no-one to talk about it with - he grew up in rural village, lived in a temple in town in order to get a high school education because there was no high school in the village (He and a classmate used to kiss each other without knowing that it was sexual or going any further) and later went to live with his older married brother, a policeman, in Bangkok to pursue his studies. He didn’t know any other gay men in Bangkok.
He was very shocked by the evidence of homophobic violence in BBM and said that it doesn’t exist in Thailand, where violent attacks are motivated by money.
Although he lived for many years in an outer suburb of Bangkok, he had no idea of the existence of gay venues until working as a tourist guide, he organized a taxi for a foreign tourist who directed them to a famous venue.
Soon after we met, he asked me to spend the weekend in his one-room apartment. I accepted and thirteen months later, I’m still here. As soon as we arrived, he called his older brother who invited us to have dinner with him and a police colleague. Older brother took me on the Monday to university departments where he had contacts to find a job. We quite often have family dinners together. Younger brother, a womanising sports teacher in the local primary school, lives in the same building and calls from time to time and we have a drink together. Younger brother often puts his arms round me and says ‘I love you’ to me.
When I moved in with my partner, he rang his mother upcountry to tell her and she wanted to meet me asap. Work commitments meant it was many weeks before we were able to go to the village where I was made welcome by his parents, older and younger brothers and sisters and nieces. We have been back several times and stayed overnight. His parents hold my hand. They ask about my plans, clearly wanting me to stay with my partner. On Father’s Day, I was included in the family ceremony where sons and partners kneel and pay respects to father and receive blessings with holy water and mantras. He gave me his individual blessing too. Later, his father joined my partner’s and my hands together and held them together in his own, smiling broadly. It felt like a traditional European handfasting betrothal. His mother has twice told me about foreigners in the district who are married to Thai women, seeming to imply a parallel. Maybe the pressure is off my partner since his brothers and sisters are married with children and he has contributed a lot to his parents and siblings financially over the years.
My partner and I do not mix in Thai gay circles these days, so I have not had a chance to talk to other gay Thais about BBM. Our respective work commitments don’t bring us into such networks and we live a long way out from places where there are gay restaurants and bars and so on. The overall lack of institutional and legal homophobia means that there is little impetus for setting up or maintaining the kind of gay community organizations and structures that have developed in the West. The fact that BBM was shown in nearly all the mutliplexes and a number of single cinemas here for some weeks shows that it must have had wide appeal to Thais. Exhibitors here very quickly whip off films that don't make money in the first days.
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tfferg -- What an interesting post -- thanks so much for taking the time to share that with with us. It really helped to expand Pete's article. Jan
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Any chance we could get the e-mail addresses for the librarians who turned down the award? They might enjoy hearing from fans of the book/movie as well.
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As a teacher librarian (Aussie term for library media specialist) although now retired except for casual work, I am so chuffed by the news about the school that refused to ban Brokeback. Recently while working in one of our Catholic Diocesan schools (where my friend who i was replacing also loved Brokeback) I was not surprised to find it on the shelves but pleased to see in the union catalogue that it was in another 4 High schools in the Diocese. Knowing the librarians in the Diocese (where I use to work permanently) I really should not have been surprised.
I think I will send the information to the national teacher-librarian list.
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Any chance we could get the e-mail addresses for the librarians who turned down the award? They might enjoy hearing from fans of the book/movie as well.
Did some research, the librarian of the Upper School is Barbara Jansen
bjansen@sasaustin.org
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SHEET MUSIC FOLIO HAS FINALLY ARRIVED!
I don't know if this has already been mentioned anywhere, but I haven't seen it. After hounding the owner of the San Francisco Music Center since February, when he told me that this was going to be published, it is finally available.
The 47-page folio has a high-gloss version of the movie poster on the cover, but unfortunately no inside photographs. The songs are:
He Was A Friend of Mine
A Love That Will Never Grow Old
King Of The Road
The Devil's Right Hand
No One's Gonna Love You Like Me
I Don't Want To Say Goodbye
I Will Never Let You Go
An Angel Went Up In Flames
It's So Easy
The Maker Makes
The Wings
The official title is "BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN - Music From the Motion Picture Soundtrack - Piano * Vocal * Guitar". It's distributed by Hal Leonard and the inventory number is HL00313333. It is $16.95.
My guess is that even some people who don't normally buy sheet music might want this. Most big cities have a sheet music store, although smaller ones don't anymore. You can find a source in the Yellow Pages under "Music, sheet" or probably find it online. It just came out last week.
I was pretty happy about this development!
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Thanks, Hidden Springs. We will be doing an article on it this week in TDS and you will be able to purchase it right on our own site store. Jan
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Hi y'all,
Just wanted to say a HUGE THANK YOU for the extra special warm welcome...
I love this place, can't think of anywhere I'd rather be.
(well, except for that BBQ) ;D
Truly, I feel like I've come home.
Melissa
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the bar answer is below WHAT ??? danged if i can find it. its the bar jack tries to hit on the clown though, idn't it? or is it the one lureen hits on jack in...
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jack........The answer is right above UBBF Calendar.
Answer: Childress, TX (Lureen) Bar
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the bar answer is below WHAT ??? danged if i can find it. its the bar jack tries to hit on the clown though, idn't it? or is it the one lureen hits on jack in...
Sorry, Jack, maybe I should move it to the very, very bottom! ...or I could just keep ya guessin' Jan
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Hi folks, Joe (jojogunn) here and I want to post an item and wish to have it put on the UBBF Calendar, hope this is the right way/place to do it, should read as follows: July 23 BBM/BBQ east of Utica NY This is part of a monthly dinner club for gay/bi men in central NY and we would like to invite any new/interested guys to this BBM event which I am hosting. I can be contacted here on the forum and can then e-mail the details and directions. Thanks and I hope this is at least partially done the right way as I'm not the most computer savy, BrokieJoe (replies to jojogunn)
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Hi folks, Joe (jojogunn) here and I want to post an item and wish to have it put on the UBBF Calendar, hope this is the right way/place to do it, should read as follows: July 23 BBM/BBQ east of Utica NY This is part of a monthly dinner club for gay/bi men in central NY and we would like to invite any new/interested guys to this BBM event which I am hosting. I can be contacted here on the forum and can then e-mail the details and directions. Thanks and I hope this is at least partially done the right way as I'm not the most computer savy, BrokieJoe (replies to jojogunn)
Hi Joe -- This is fine -- but its probably easier for us to not miss it if you would just contact us directly. Either PM or email us (the co-editors):
jan@davecullen.com or ellen@davecullen.com
or PM: CactusGal PM: tellyouwhat
This information is at the bottom of every TDS.
Also, you can start your own thread, if you'd like, in our Start Your Own Thread -- here is the link: http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?board=4.0 and post your own info.
Love to see these get togethers! Thanks. Jan
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I would like to make a recommendation for "Quote of the Day."
This is part of a very long and intelligent post on BBM in general and slash in particular. The post begins with a description of bluehorse's love affair with the movie, and includes the following comment:
Why do some people walk out of the movie and go to dinner and talk about the weather and others walk out of the theater to find the horizon has been erased.
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Sid -- You have spotted a very good post -- luckily, so did I -- it is already scheduled to run in tomorrow's TDS! Jan
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re: bar answer...
thanks for the bold red print. saved a lot of wear and tear on the eyes. :o
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re: bar answer...
thanks for the bold red print. saved a lot of wear and tear on the eyes. :o
Just for you, Jack -- just for you! Jan
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Hi Jan - I was going to recommend that pic from the photo caption thread but I thought it may be too sad. I was impressed that it was just one word in the caption. The captioning folks are so talented. Next time we must have a happy one to make up for this one though!
TB
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Hi Jan - I was going to recommend that pic from the photo caption thread but I thought it may be too sad. I was impressed that it was just one word in the caption. The captioning folks are so talented. Next time we must have a happy one to make up for this one though!
TB
Hi TB -- So glad you liked it like I did. Did you see the "pretend" photocap just above it -- that was for comic relief but I guess I should have reversed the order! Your right I love those guys/gals in photocaps -- amazing imaginations -- they sure brighten my day! Jan
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'morning Jan....just a quick note telling you thanks for the work you put into The Daily Sheet. It's always a good read, positive and just good old fun. You're doing some good stuff here.
terry
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I second that! :)
Again, thanks for posting the Beyond Brokeback book cover draft, it's really nice. Supporting this book project is important for many reasons, one of them I think is that it will put forward stories by some people who may not post much at all but who have brilliant thinking going on. Thanks to the book their Brokeback stories will not be lost or forgotten.
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First of all, I want to thank all you guys for putting together this Daily Sheet every day for us. It takes a lot of work and sweat in putting this together. Your articles are just so great and helpful and I love reading peoples profiles.
Reading about Our Auntie,Killersmom,just made me feel really good. She indeed is a special person,and I love her to pieces. I love her little Texan accent and her kind words are just too much. I still can't believe she's opening her house and her heart to all of us locos this August. Auntie is a big part of our lives ,more than she will ever know.
I'm so honored to be a part of this family.
Great work,guys
Nellie
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I want to thank Pete for writing about the experiences of bi-national gay couples and the struggles they experience in the face of our unjust immigration policy. I have a dear friend from Brazil who has lived in the United States for five years, three of those years in a relationship with an American man. My friend overstayed his tourist visa and lives in fear of being deported and separated from his partner. His life in America is in limbo. He cannot find a decent job due to lack of a work permit and his immigration status puts a terrible strain on his relationship. If he were in a heterosexual relationship, he would be a permanent resident by now. But because he is gay, he and his partner have little legal recourse.
Opponents of the Permanent Partners Act say that gay men are simply "sex partners" and they attempt to deny the love that exists in gay and lesbian relationships. Brokeback Mountain and other cultural phenomena are slowly chipping away at those lies and the propaganda of the radical right. Unfortunately, bi-national couples must contend with not only homophobia, but also growing anti-immigrant sentiment in the USA that imperils any reasonable overhaul of American immigration laws.
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Pete's love affair with a Thai national brings back long ago sorrow. On my first trip to Paris, I met and fell in love with a beautiful young Frenchman who was in the city up from Limoges applying for a job with Air France. The application took a long time to process and I waited in a cheap hotel, with funds withering away to nothing, for his return to the city and a job. I desparately tried to find work, but no luck. Our life together was not to be. He returned to Paris in a panic about us, ground down by fear. I was about broke and didn't know where to turn. So I returned to the States. My friend and I kept in touch, moved on, but he later died from AIDS.
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Dear Peteinportland
How cruel and spiteful are governments like yours and so many others!
And their beliefs are actually immoral. People and countires who see
themselves as "Christian" are so hung up on sexuality that they cannot see
that morality is about how we treat each other. Not allowing loving
partners to be united with a permenent residence visa and live together is a direct violation of the
essence of morality, the Golden Rule; 'Do unto others as you would have them
do unto you.'
The US government's attitude is same as that of so many who preach
family values but actually break families and keep them apart through the
rigid application of outdated laws and bureaucratic regulations.
Thank you for reminding all our members of the continuing Brokeback
lives so many are forced to live. More power to your compatriots who are
working to change the US legislation.
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Omigosh omigosh omigosh I LOVE ANNIE PROULX SO MUCH!!!!! Thanks Annie for your piece in The Daily Sheet today and thanks so much editors Ellen and Jan!!!!
- Wayne
:) :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :)
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:) :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :)
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Kudos to Jan for pursuing and receiving a response from Annie for the Brokeback Profile! It's quite the coup, and folks are a-twitter all over the threads I frequent!
Monica
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Thanks, Monica and everyone else that have shared kind words on the Annie interview to me. I can tell you I was one excited gal when that fax came in! I'm just so pleased for us all that she took her time to acknowledge us and, especially her support of the DVD campaign. Validation is always wonderful, but when it comes from Annie Proulx it is glorious. Jan
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Proulx' admission of the "lie" she told--that she found the very idea of falling in love with her characetrs "repugnant", and her admission that she had really been in love with Jack and Ennis since she published her story---is priceless.
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Now, this was a great surprise - what a solemn occasion, to read about Annie Proulx! Her note and profile replies especially are like poetry. I got goosebumps, felt well on my way up some Wyoming mountain... There just could be no other setting for Ennis and Jack. Just brilliant.
:)
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Absolutely brilliant work there Jan, roping Annie Proulx for TDS - no wonder we love you so!
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Just want to start off by saying how much I love the Daily Sheet; read it first thing in the morning. Thanks to Pete and Ellen and Jan, DCLuke, twistedboy, tellyouwhat, Cynical21, and Jim, and all youse who put it together! Big hugs and kisses!
Secondly, thanks so much for the Annie Proulx profile. What a joy it was to read that yesterday; and honor that she shared with us.
Thirdly, I love your profiles that you do; so stoked when I saw my buddy Sid profiled today! Y'all rock it! :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Dozy Embrace set to Haden/Metheny Spiritual on YouTube
In her essay called “Getting Movied” (from Story to Screenplay) Annie Proulx wrote:
“The most difficult scene was the paragraph where, on the mountain, Ennis holds Jack and rocks back and forth, humming, the moment mixed with childhood loss and his refusal to admit he was holding a man. This paragraph took forever to get right, and I played Charlie Haden's and Pat Metheny's Spiritual, from their album Beyond the Missouri Sky (short stories) uncountable times, trying to get the words. I was trying to write the inchoate feelings of Jack and Ennis, the sad impossibility of their liaison, which for me was expressed in that music. To this day, I cannot hear that track without Jack and Ennis appearing before me.”
If you have not yet heard this music, check out this link to this very moving YouTube video created by kaerff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi6i8bfwV-w&search=brokeback%20mountain%20spiritual
This video is just gorgeous. It was one of my first discoveries on the Dave Cullen website (Ultimate Brokeback Guide; Pictures, clips, etc.; Brokeback Flashback). But it should come with a warning. Once you view it, then the next time you watch the Dozy Embrace in the movie, your reaction will be: "That's it!? What was that, twenty seconds? Where's the rest of it?"
Sid, thanks for writing! for my part, I had always wanted to hear the music. It is lovely.
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Pete - thanks so much for this inspiring insight:
University academicians and social researchers are already telling us this book will be very significant to the field of pop culture and film because no other film has ever had such an impact on viewers that fans chronicled the impact in a book of their own making. As with our ad campaign, we are literally making history and helping to cement BBM as one of the greatest films in the history of cinema in terms of impact and audience reaction.
Great work y'all!! :)
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What wdj said. :)
History in the making...!
Since both Charlie Haden and esp Pat Metheney are two of my fave musicians I enjoyed yesterday's and today's referrals to them both regarding Annie P as well as in yesterday's very intersting and moving profile of BradInBlue.
Thanks to everyone in this week's profiles, it has been very interesting to read.
... shout-outs to Bay City John! :)
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Agree with Elvan, BradInBlue's profile was very moving - thanks much Brad for sharing! Also thanks to Pete for the cultural insight about BBM book and for the story about Thai boyfriend. I have learned a lot.
TDS is a great part of the site and much appeciation to all involved.
Rick
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As for the Question of the Day about a moral to Brokeback Mountain,
on being interviewed after this years oscars, Larry McMurtry was asked
that very question by a reporter--about a moral to the story and his quite
succinct reply was:
"Love ain't for sissies!"
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OK, sorry y'all for the confusion, we have one more update for the Midwest Slash Bash in the Calendar. In subsequent TDS entries, please have that link point to our new thread in the Meet Your Neighbors board:
Edit: I discussed this with Gonzo and we agreed this would be the better link:
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=11785.msg376078#msg376078
Thanks
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I LUUUUUUUV Tellyouwhat!! Enjoyed your profile today Ellen!!!
:-* :-* :-*
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdavecullen.com%2Fbrokeback%2Fdaily%2Fmbrprofile%2Fellen.jpg&hash=4f03b8a4f8efe13260346e00bf2a5c509b3c1e10)
:-* :-* :-*
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I LUUUUUUUV Tellyouwhat!! Enjoyed your profile today Ellen!!!
:-* :-* :-*
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdavecullen.com%2Fbrokeback%2Fdaily%2Fmbrprofile%2Fellen.jpg&hash=4f03b8a4f8efe13260346e00bf2a5c509b3c1e10)
:-* :-* :-*
That was a nice profile! I can't wait to see yours Wayne! :)
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I'll be damned. Ellen is just as beautiful as i pictured her to be. But then inner beauty often shows up on the outside, doesn't it?
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What? This old thing? Oh wait, that's what you say when you can't take a compliment-- really jack, you have provoked me into disclaimer mode! That is my only digital portrait, that I use in case of a professional writer's gig (papers want your pic)-- Best foot forward, you know! A bit overdressed for TDS I'm afraid. Wait til the BBQ, when I'll be wearin' my E&J t-shirt (and BBQ sauce, no doubt)
Whew that was fun but now it's Jan's turn-- (hands over baton with relief) -- E
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It was very nice to see the tables turned, and Jan and Ellen answering the questions! What classy ladies!
Pete
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Hell, I've met Jan, she's waaay nice!
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hey, I forgot to respond to Ellen's highly intelligent and thought provoking , well-reasoned answers to the questions she was asked!
Very good job! beauty and brains are a GREAT combo!
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NOW EMBARRASSED BEYOND BELIEF
That's what I get for submitting a posed picture. Recent, but posed. Believe me you couldn't have the interesting life I have had without wear and tear, and one of those "0" birthdays coming up.
Thank you Jan for inventing those intelligent questions!
Now everyone should be dying to answer them, including you Mr. Brokeback_1
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yikes
i'm being threatened roflmao
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Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post the following, I wasn't sure where to tell everyone that "I wish I knew how to quit you" is running a solid 2nd place at today's poll for top film quote of the 00s over at the popular movie site www.imdb.com. Predictably, "My precious" is ahead, but Brokeback will wind up in second. Nice to see it, here's the link: http://www.imdb.com/poll/
thx
Thx jayiijay
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh253%2Fmontezumae_2006%2Fmaps.jpg&hash=b36feaee5b1cd4b70185a49020f4f76e9afff346)
re : respect from Hollywood (thanks gnash :))
In ireland they even named a county town after him :))
M.
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"JACK: Oh Ennis! Yes! Yes! Yes I'll marry you!"
Okay, that one got the tears going again. I sure would love to see real-life scenes like that in my lifetime.
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Ohmygod... my first mention in the Daily Sheet, yay! :D
Well, now that I'm at it... thanks to all who bring us the Sheet every day (Cactus Gal?). It's always a lovely read!
Lin
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Ohmygod... my first mention in the Daily Sheet, yay! :D
Well, now that I'm at it... thanks to all who bring us the Sheet every day (Cactus Gal?). It's always a lovely read!
Lin
Hi -- Actually tellyouwhat and I take turns producing The Daily Sheet. You can always tell the editor-of-the-day by looking at the bottom of the day's post where it is listed. Today's was actually produced by tellyouwhat -- although I look forward to getting you in there again one day too! We're glad you enjoy it -- a labor of love for us too. Jan (CactusGal)
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Hi -- Actually tellyouwhat and I take turns producing The Daily Sheet. You can always tell the editor-of-the-day by looking at the bottom of the day's post where it is listed. Today's was actually produced by tellyouwhat -- although I look forward to getting you in there again one day too! We're glad you enjoy it -- a labor of love for us too. Jan (CactusGal)
Haha, tellyouwhat actually PM'd me to set the record straight too. :) Thanks for the reply though, I'll keep it in mind, and credit to both of you!
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CactusGal --
I still cannot getting over the fact that Annie Proulx took the time to write you a thank-you note. It may seem overly obsessed, but I know you put the text of her note in your Daily Sheet posting, but maybe I missed it, what does the "PS" portion of her note say. If it's too personal, then I'll understand.
Thanks SO MUCH for sharing that with us. At least I feel the creators of BBM are beginning to understand the tip of the iceberg of gratefullness we have toward them. And for them, that is the greatest reward of all.
-Cam
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CactusGal --
I still cannot getting over the fact that Annie Proulx took the time to write you a thank-you note. It may seem overly obsessed, but I know you put the text of her note in your Daily Sheet posting, but maybe I missed it, what does the "PS" portion of her note say. If it's too personal, then I'll understand.
Thanks SO MUCH for sharing that with us. At least I feel the creators of BBM are beginning to understand the tip of the iceberg of gratefullness we have toward them. And for them, that is the greatest reward of all.
-Cam
Cam -- Actually it says, "P.S. I have already tossed the orig. letter/Questionnaire when my agent forwarded your request for it"
This refers to my request for the original; of course, if I'd have realized that Annie faxed it herself, I would have never been brave enough to ask for it! Just a lucky break!
I've been asked to bring it to the Texas BBQ, so, I've already put it with the laptop to bring along! Thanks for being interested - I really wasn't sure that I should post it, so I'm glad it was interesting to you too. Jan
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...<snip>...
Thanks for being interested - I really wasn't sure that I should post it, so I'm glad it was interesting to you too. Jan
Whut?!?!?! Are you crazy? How could we not be interested. This find makes me feel like blind pig who has just found a huge acorn, NO, a big fat TRUFFLE. :) Thank-you, Thank-you.
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Loved Boris's bad date post! ;D
... my goodness, there is so much I'd like to comment on in this week's Daily Sheet, so much great stuff that it'd take me forever to include everything, so just a few things that come to mind:
Really beautiful to see the Annie Proulx postcard sent to you, Jan, and very nice also to see Ellen's profile!
I can't wait to hear all about the Vancouver and Philly round-ups! ;)
Gnash's poems are quite amazing. (His "Ennis Day" - picture as well! :D)
New Member of the Day - yes, very important.
brokeback_1's Post of the Day, very beautiful - congratulations!
... and twistedboy can come and fix my plants any day of the week! ;D What a total garden make-over! :o
Thanks also for the Travels with Jack's Truck – Part3: Touring Alberta piece. Some trip to win!! Wow... can't imagine what it would be like to stand before the Twist's home.
Love the photocaps too... the works!
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So fun to be on the Daily Sheet! I have met so many wonderful people here and I am having such a good time! The unnamed Coffee Line friend in my 1000th post is also a member here---Christina---we apparently are living parallel lives and if it wasn't for this forum we would have never met! Thanks all! :)
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Regarding WB's announcement that Heath will be the Joker, the best part of the announcement is Christopher Nolan's statement in the announcement - “Our challenge in casting the Joker was to find an actor who is not just extraordinarily talented but fearless,” - that tells us Nolan's confidence and appreciation of Heath's ability to portray the character.
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I have some career fears for Mr. Ledger in taking on The Joker....He is Marlon Brando, not Jim Carey. Although I am happy for him to have such great exposure, I hate to think of how this role could expose him to ridicule of the powers that be, ie, first a gay cowboy, now a cartoon character. It might reinforce in the Hollywood homophobic regime the idea that BBM was a fluke, and his performance can be swept under the carpet in the overall scheme of things.....Am I overreacting? We still don't know the impact, long-term, of BBM on his career. Personally, I think when Hollywood grows up in another few years-I hope- his story will be known as the great Oscar rip-off of all time.
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Canstandit, I don't think you have to worry too much for Heath. After surfing the internet over the last few days, I have come to the conclusion that unless Heath fails to pull off the role, this role will only further enhance the notion that Heath is a versatile actor - he can be Marlon Brando and Jim Carey at the same time (e.g. BBM and Lords of Dogtown). From all the articles that I read Batman Begins is a serious movie and the director, Christopher Nolan, is highly regarded; so The Dark Knight will follow the same path and not a caricature version of the Batman cartoon. Anyway, I'm looking forward to see how Heath will tackle the role.
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Today's daily Sheet was good. Very very good. It had something for EVERYBODY in it.
Thank you Ellen. Thank You Jan.
Between the 2 of you a remarkable job gets done, and done WELL. Pete said it just right when he said you were both Classy Ladies.
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Yet another good Daily--and not because it mentions the BBM M.S. get-together this January, either!
'The World Trade Center'...I simply don't know if I can watch this, not after watching them fall down and living in that miserable silvery cloud which enveloped the city, wondering who was alive, who was dead, where my brother was, if he was alive, knowing how so many first responders whom I know will never be the same.... the whole thing.
It's funny, I have no real trouble dealing with the emotions of that day. That was something necessary, something which had to be done. At first it was the reverse--imagery was ok, emotions couldn't be dealt with.
Today it's the imagery. Simply can't stand it. That and knowing that yes, while NY really IS prosperous, the the population makeup of outer boroughs such as Brooklyn has changed drastically since 911. Many pre-911 cohesive 'traditional' neighborhoods have changed so much you barely recognise them. Bensonhurst was what, 95% Italian. It's down to 40% or so. Bay Ridge has a new name: Beiruit, it went from Irish-Italian-Greek to a very Arab neighborhood. The list goes on. I think the backbone of NY pulled up stakes and left. Like me lol.
So I don't think I will see the film. Not unless the family insists next month when I'll be back there. If you were there and know/knew what went on, no reason to do so. It's already inside.
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O wow... Diana Ossama?
My mind always hears her telling Larry McMurtry to' INDULGE ME' and read BBM when he told her that he didn't read short fiction any longer...sometimes it takes a gal with THAT TONE in her voice to get a guy to do what needs to be done!
This was a nice nice Sunday treat!
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I'm not sure how many people know this, but both Jan and Ellen were at the BBQ all weekend. And guess what? They still produced The Daily Sheet. What dedication. What true professionalism. Thanks so much to both of them.
Pete
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...both Jan and Ellen were at the BBQ all weekend...and...they still produced The Daily Sheet.
What dedication. What true professionalism.
What a great excuse to run back to the air-conditioned hotel for a couple hours! ;) ;) ;)
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Hi Sid --
The best reply to your post is -- no we DID NOT slack off on our party activities (or sweating in the Texas heat)
Jan, back me up. Pete was right, we did all that AND TDS!
Thanks , Pete.
E
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HAH. I bet they did !!
My minds eye can clearly see Jan and Ellen discussing Jake while swilling down the Moose Drool Beer, writing copy about Diana, talking about Jake, discussing Dave, talking about Jake, observing the styles of Cowboy Hats, talking about Jake, discussing SNIT, talking about Jake...
LOL the stories you guys are going to have!!!!
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I'm not sure how many people know this, but both Jan and Ellen were at the BBQ all weekend. And guess what? They still produced The Daily Sheet. What dedication. What true professionalism. Thanks so much to both of them.
Pete
Thanks, Pete! Partying was definately high on the priority list! (Thanks to the LA Posse, sleep has not been much of an option!) Wouldn't have missed it for the world though. Tonight is very difficult as we say goodbye to our friends! There were still around 25 still there tonight - but most will leave tomorrow. OK one more night of partying with the LA gang and then I'll be hitting the road! Jan
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HAH. I bet they did !!
My minds eye can clearly see Jan and Ellen discussing Jake while swilling down the Moose Drool Beer, writing copy about Diana, talking about Jake, discussing Dave, talking about Jake, observing the styles of Cowboy Hats, talking about Jake, discussing SNIT, talking about Jake...
LOL the stories you guys are going to have!!!!
Carol said she got together and had a little "Jake Fest" with Moderator Mary, and Ellen & Jan (one or both of you?) and a couple others...
I am hurt to have been left out of that little discussion....Carol knows how much I love Jake.... ;)
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Oh and Jan/Ellen -
It should be pointed out that Sheera's friend David joined the forum while at the BBQ.
:) Can we write off the whole thing then as a recruiting trip? hahaha!
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Heidi --
AW we missed you during our little jake fest (Carol was not hallucinating, both Jan and I were there)! I'm sure you were doing something else important at the time, of course ;)
David--
welcome to the forum! Say goodbye to life as you used to know it!
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The pictures posted from the BBQ on the Aug 12th edition of TDS are not showing up... :(
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I'm glad that's not just me!
Edit: Thanks for sorting that out. I can see them all now.
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Reading TDS always gives me a lift. Just wanted to send a special thank you for including all of michaelflanagansf post...
it was so well written, and said so much.
Thanks for all your good work!
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Hi Sid --
The best reply to your post is -- no we DID NOT slack off on our party activities (or sweating in the Texas heat)
Jan, back me up. Pete was right, we did all that AND TDS!
Thanks , Pete.
E
they did, they did, they did.
i can testify, i was right there with them, and damn proud to be, too.
nice meeting you, ladies,
jack
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Oh and Jan/Ellen -
It should be pointed out that Sheera's friend David joined the forum while at the BBQ.
:) Can we write off the whole thing then as a recruiting trip? hahaha!
did he get his toaster oven and the secret handshake?
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Oh and Jan/Ellen -
It should be pointed out that Sheera's friend David joined the forum while at the BBQ.
:) Can we write off the whole thing then as a recruiting trip? hahaha!
did he get his toaster oven and the secret handshake?
dang it Jack! You beat me to it!
:D
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Actually, Sheera gets the toaster, and David gets the secret handshake. ;)
Pete
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I think some of the pics on the Daily Sheet are being cut off on the far right. Is anyone else seeing this?
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I think some of the pics on the Daily Sheet are being cut off on the far right. Is anyone else seeing this?
They probably are, but look at the bottom of the particular sheet and there should be a scroll bar at the bottom of the TDS. Just use this to scroll left to right. The whole cutting off thing depends on the size of your monitor etc. Let me know if this helps.
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Joe -- So sorry about the picture issue. As twistedboy said, it is caused by the difference in screen size and the resolution that you have set your monitor to see. Obviously I'm sizing them as I see them on my own monitor. The only thing I know to tell you is to turn down the resolution a bit and you should see the entire page. If anyone else has a solution, please let us know.
We wouldn't want anyone to miss your great picture or all the others! Jan
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I'm having the same problem here at work, but even more so. You all must have HUGE screens -- if I make the resolution any smaller I'll go blind!
BTW, can someone explain what it is about the light in Texas that makes one's hair appear to be solid gray? I know there's quite a bit up there, but I didn't know there was THAT much. :o
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Joe -- I hope some computer guru will jump in here and help us solve this issue. On Thursday, perhaps we can just make a single line of pics. I was told that the screen size/resolution setting was the issue -- but the last week of TDS (days that I write) were done on my laptop which only has a 15" screen. Sorry! :( :( Jan
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I'm having the same problem here at work, but even more so. You all must have HUGE screens -- if I make the resolution any smaller I'll go blind!
BTW, can someone explain what it is about the light in Texas that makes one's hair appear to be solid gray? I know there's quite a bit up there, but I didn't know there was THAT much. :o
LMAO. Well, you see, God loves Texas and Texans so much that he wants us to have the best light in the world. Plus, you SoCal peeps are so infused with hair and skin products to preserve your youthful looks that the fumes just rise from your overcrowded cities and block the sun. Cuz, baby, your hair is every bit as gray as it show in the pics. Maybe it's all the worrying from taking the bar sooooooo many times. :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
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LMAO. Well, you see, God loves Texas and Texans so much that he wants us to have the best light in the world. Plus, you SoCal peeps are so infused with hair and skin products to preserve your youthful looks that the fumes just rise from your overcrowded cities and block the sun. Cuz, baby, your hair is every bit as gray as it show in the pics. Maybe it's all the worrying from taking the bar sooooooo many times. :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P
You're probably right. I should just be happy I haven't pulled it all out at this point. Oh well, another illusion shattered.
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Actually, Sheera gets the toaster, and David gets the secret handshake. ;)
Pete
roaring laughter can be heard from the far east of the us of a, to the far far east, lol.
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I think some of the pics on the Daily Sheet are being cut off on the far right. Is anyone else seeing this?
They probably are, but look at the bottom of the particular sheet and there should be a scroll bar at the bottom of the TDS. Just use this to scroll left to right. The whole cutting off thing depends on the size of your monitor etc. Let me know if this helps.
also, make sure you are viewing full screen rather than in a window. sorry if that's obvious, but i do it all the time.
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Actually, Sheera gets the toaster, and David gets the secret handshake. ;)
Pete
**SNORK**
omg. Thanks for that laugh, Pete.
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roflmao
I just sent this + Bitchy Bobby to Australia, my son's dorm in Brisbane will be laughing it's arse off.
And so, dear reader, will YOU.
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=323.msg411401#msg411401
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yes Jack! I agree! That bumper sticker should be in the forum store!!!
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BTW, can someone explain what it is about the light in Texas that makes one's hair appear to be solid gray? I know there's quite a bit up there, but I didn't know there was THAT much. :o
I agree, Joe! Some pics I thought my head was in the clouds...or had a halo around it or something!
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Thankyou so much for the new picture of Ennis, it's amazing.
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Elvan,
I really like your new avatar.
Pete
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Canstandit, I don't think you have to worry too much for Heath. After surfing the internet over the last few days, I have come to the conclusion that unless Heath fails to pull off the role, this role will only further enhance the notion that Heath is a versatile actor - he can be Marlon Brando and Jim Carey at the same time (e.g. BBM and Lords of Dogtown). From all the articles that I read Batman Begins is a serious movie and the director, Christopher Nolan, is highly regarded; so The Dark Knight will follow the same path and not a caricature version of the Batman cartoon. Anyway, I'm looking forward to see how Heath will tackle the role.
OMG, YB-sorry I never responded to this! I'm a in a haze sometimes, I swear..thanks for your reponse.
I too am curious, I have to admit. And as for sheer talent, nobody's got much more than Mr. Ledger does!
Tx.
CSI
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Elvan,
I really like your new avatar.
Pete
:) Thanks, Pete... it feels good to "promote" the forum book that way, it means very much to me.
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I just want to thank Jaysmommy and WDJ for all the hard work they are doing on Beyond Brokeback the book. I appreciate the time they have taken out of their busy schedules to help. I hope to see a forum profile on WDJ soon in The Daily Sheet because not only does he deserve it but I think he has more than earned it. I'm looking forward to seeing it. :)
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tell them what you REALLY think, jason ;) ;D
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hi ellen ...
that link for annie's ranch is a dead end. i backed up on it to the home page, but the proulx listing appears to be gone, at least under the smaller properties heading.
jack
Hi all, Jack sent me this message -- well I hope this is not a big disappointment to anyone who really wanted to buy Annie's place -- The original ad had a phone number, which I left out of TDS because, according to elan, the phone number was a recording which referred to the website.
I just thought the ad itself was interesting, gave just a little insight to Annie's life (many bookshelves) and whereabouts (near the university). Some sweet life. And if she is really moving, wonder if she is upgrading or simplifying?
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Does anyone know if the spam message affected anyone's computers/virus type thingy? I'm hearing rumors...
Thanks for any help.
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Does anyone know if the spam message affected anyone's computers/virus type thingy? I'm hearing rumors...
Thanks for any help.
There have been posts about this that indicate that there was some virus associated with it. I really question that because a PM is never really opened like an email. People have been suggesting running your antivirus software. If you don't have that lavasoft.com has some freeware called Ad-Aware. The personal edition is free and pretty effective. I don't think it is all that bad but some have suggested it is affecting the functioning of their computers and have suggested you not send email until you clear up whatever you think you might have on your computer. I am not technically knowledgeable and the admin team is working on something, but I don't know exactly what. I hope this helps.
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I just spoke with Monica who is one of the techs. She said that there really should be nothing to worry about UNLESS you actually clicked one of the links in the Don Johnson message. If you did (naughty, naughty) you might have gotten a virus from that website. Mostly the message was just to warn people it was pornographic and you would be forced to look at it without any choice. If you are having problems it might be some glitch on your computer or slowdown with your ISP or etc.
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Great Saturday Daily Sheet.
Sparky's profile, thankyou so much that was a very cool blurb. ;)
Also, always fun to see pics from other get-togethers... San Fransisco looks like a lot of fun.
PatSinnot's watercolor print of the BBQ group photo, me like.
And the photocaps.... a bit sad today but good nevertheless. Love it.
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A addition to today's TDS:
Book Campaign--Fundraising Campaign for Marketing Update
Thanks to many generous members, we have raised $2,500 toward our $4,000 goal. For more information or to make a contribution, please go here:
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=2016.msg369439#msg369439
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Thankyou so much for the new picture of Ennis, it's amazing.
Yes, it was the one I wanted for my 'late heifers' thing, but we have all moved on since then (given birth to our new selves thanks to midwife Ennis, or something :))
M.
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BBM opera? A tough one to pull off.
I can imagine a BBM as a full-length dance drama, choreographed by the brilliant contemporary Australian choreographer Graeme Murphy, who was director of the Sydney Dance Theatre for many years. He often choreographs pas-de-deux for men and complex group pieces too. He has a unique style. I'd love to see him tackle it.
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actually, i take exception. this would be an extraordinarily by the book opera. all the classic elements are there, the primary characters have great situation for solos duos trios and quartets. the libretto all but writes itself. if britten could do billy budd, someone should be able to do this justice, and law, western themes have been but little explored in opera, so its fertile ground to mine. anyone remember a little ditty by reba macentyre called does he love you ? it was a 2 soprano duet that soared, and tore with tragedy. absolutely operatic in scope and style. garth brooks and the thunder rolls also operatic in theme. how about a baritone of the caliber of randy travis singing of impossible love...
i swear... if i had a lick of musical talent i could write this puppy. and the operatic world would be falling all over each other to perform it! in my lifetime, i will see this on stage, i will wager.
jack
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I'm with Jack on this one BBM would make an excellent subject for an opera the whole thing is scripted like someting out of Verdi to begin with ;)
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I once posted over on Ennis&Jack that this would make, in the right hands, a great opera. Somebody responded with the following: "How do you write music and lyrics for somebody as inarticulate as Ennis del Mar?" And just imagine, all those sheep on stage!! ;D ;D
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On the Daily Sheet we should be yellin
Birthday wishes to our very own Ellen
Just what age is she?
From her pic you'll agree,
Tell you what--there is really no tellin!
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Without going back and checking ancient posts, I would be willing to bet that I was one of those who may have scoffed at the idea of translating BBM to the stage (musical or opera). Upon reflection, however, I honestly think the material could "sing" and that it could do so in the musical format. Think "Passion", "Grey Gardens", "Light in the Piazza", "Pal Joey", "Pacific Overtures", "Caroline, Or Change".
There are ample opportunites for Jack, Alma and Lureen to sing. Even Ennis is not a major problems though most of his early stuff would have to be internalized and character exposition. But even a light hearted number between he and the girls demonstrating his true love for them is possible (think an expansion of the scene in which he asks if they would like him to push them on the swing or, perhaps, his conversation at Thanksgiving dinner table). Alma's reaction to the reunion scene could stop the show. Jack's big exit number toward the end of ACT II would be a take on the "dozy embrace' reverie. Ennis would, of course, have the ball busting 11 o'clock number of all time with "Jack, I Swear".
Sondheim could pull this off. Doyle is a possibility for design and direction. Maybe Kushner writes the libretto.
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I once posted over on Ennis&Jack that this would make, in the right hands, a great opera. Somebody responded with the following: "How do you write music and lyrics for somebody as inarticulate as Ennis del Mar?" And just imagine, all those sheep on stage!! ;D ;D
Hmmmm...maybe if we got Robert Wilson and Philip Glass to do it they could just spend 3 hours going up and down the mountain...and the sheep could talk (imagine the music - 3 hourse of tape loops of sheep noise). And Aguirre can be represented by darkness coming across the stage...or perhaps as a faustian devil. And at the end the hollowness of Ennis' life can be represented by robots in caves.
Yeah! This could work!
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Hmmmm...maybe if we got Robert Wilson and Philip Glass to do it they could just spend 3 hours going up and down the mountain...and the sheep could talk (imagine the music - 3 hourse of tape loops of sheep noise). And Aguirre can be represented by darkness coming across the stage...or perhaps as a faustian devil. And at the end the hollowness of Ennis' life can be represented by robots in caves.
ROTFLMAO
Actually, if Robert Wilson got his hands on this Jack and Ennis would not even move. They would have to stand stock still for 3 hours. Their "movements" would be represented by a barely perceptible change in the stage lighting. I saw a production of Parsifal by Wilson and it was tough. Not for novices or sissies.
You clearly are familiar with the works of Mssrs. Wilson and Glass. As much as I love those two and find their work astonishingly provacative, my vote would be for something a touch more lyrical.
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ROTFLMAO
Actually, if Robert Wilson got his hands on this Jack and Ennis would not even move. They would have to stand stock still for 3 hours. Their "movements" would be represented by a barely perceptible change in the stage lighting. I saw a production of Parsifal by Wilson and it was tough. Not for novices or sissies.
You clearly are familiar with the works of Mssrs. Wilson and Glass. As much as I love those two and find their work astonishingly provacative, my vote would be for something a touch more lyrical.
Oh yeah...saw 'The Black Rider' when it was here last year and loved it. Not sure I understood it, but I loved it (I mean Marianne Faithful as the devil - who wouldn't?). And I've been going to see Glass in concert since the early 80s.
So you wouldn't go for John Adams/Peter Sellars then either?
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So you wouldn't go for John Adams/Peter Sellars then either?
I'm not familiar with either of those men. I've heard of Peter Sellars but can't recall if I have seen anything of his. I used to have season tickets to Houston Grand Opera at a time when they were doing at least one newly-written opera a season. They were really cooking. Now they are just rewarming old productions for the carriage trade. I shied away from really pre-studying any of them. I wanted it to be more a visceral experience than an intellectual one. Sometimes the mystery of a beautiful work of art can be destroyed by overexamination, for me at least. It's that mystery I'm after. That's really how I approach BBM. Really needed to talk about it but wanted to leave the mystery of "why" intact and just relish the feelings it instilled. I saw a production of Strauss' Elektra and had to go back later in the week to see it again. All I can tell you is that Hildegarde Behrens was Elektra and to this day, that is one of my all time favorite opera experiences ever.
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So you wouldn't go for John Adams/Peter Sellars then either?
I'm not familiar with either of those men. I've heard of Peter Sellars but can't recall if I have seen anything of his. I used to have season tickets to Houston Grand Opera at a time when they were doing at least one newly-written opera a season. They were really cooking. Now they are just rewarming old productions for the carriage trade. I shied away from really pre-studying any of them. I wanted it to be more a visceral experience than an intellectual one. Sometimes the mystery of a beautiful work of art can be destroyed by overexamination, for me at least. It's that mystery I'm after. That's really how I approach BBM. Really needed to talk about it but wanted to leave the mystery of "why" intact and just relish the feelings it instilled. I saw a production of Strauss' Elektra and had to go back later in the week to see it again. All I can tell you is that Hildegarde Behrens was Elektra and to this day, that is one of my all time favorite opera experiences ever.
John Adams/Peter Sellars are the duo who did 'Nixon in China', 'The Death of Klinghoffer' and 'Dr. Atomic'. I saw the last one and was quite fond of it. I do understand the idea that the mystery of a beautiful work of art can be destroyed by overexamination, but I also feel that criticism and analysis can be great tools in helping us to understand the motivation of both characters in a work and the authors of the work. Often when going to see a musical work I won't prepare for it beforehand (and as I'm a librarian who deals with a good deal of the opera crowd I know this is not always the case), but I must admit that before 'Brokeback' I read the story just to see if I would like it (this was about 8 months before the film was released). I find it necessary to do this because I often find myself watching films in which I spend the majority of the time thinking 'well, what did you expect' (as I did with the film adaptation of Allan Hollinghurst's 'The Line of Beauty'). Much as overanalysis can kill a work, it can also suffer if you find the actions of the characters to be ones that you cannot identify with - and so sometimes a little forewarning is a good thing.
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In response to the Wal-Mart article --
I know I shouldn't expect anything resembling rational rhetoric from the Family Research Council. I mean, their arguments are always bizarre as well as bigoted. But "I don’t think this is something that will sell on Main Street America, where most Wal-Mart stores are located..." ::) ::) ::) Every Wal-Mart I've seen has been built on a freshly-dug-up farm or ranch, someplace on Highway X out on the outskirts of town, in a big box with a bigger parking lot.
Or maybe the Family Research Council has moved on from redefining words like "family" and now is defining "Main Street" to mean "sprawl"?
The Family Research Council really is something straight from 1984, I swear.
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Isn't Opera a treacherous pasture? Think of all those porkers whose voices are great but, yuck, not to look at. Worse, if the music isn't great, then what?
Still, a work as monumental as this is going to erupt down the years in other forms.
Months back I mentioned a stage version. It could draw on the best of both the book and the film. It could be an important vehicle for young, emerging, actors. Diana Osana herself was asked about this by Marge Innavera, one of our members, in Missouri back in April. Her response: "She said she thought it would make a wonderful stage play...Frankly, I expressed a little skepticism (because of the sparseness of the dialogue) but she immediately said 'Oh no, I think it would be a wonderful stage play.'"
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whenever a work is in the adaptation or creation process there is always cause to doubt based on whether the right authors or performers will find their way to the material. one can hope that this story is so archetypal that it is blessed. it has already thrived through two incarnations, and one might easily count this forum and the book we publish as yet another. why NOT a broadway musical drama AND an opera.
and odoggie... shame on you typecasting singers so. there are plenty of young studly baritones and tenors out there. the "porkers" tend to be those who have been at the game for a long time. it takes a huge amount of time and experience to reach opera heights. there are youngsters fresh out of popular music and music schools for whom this could be the big break. the music might need to be profound, but it needn't be out of reach. italian stylings would be out of place in this setting, but a britten or a copland or a bernstein might have done a masterful job. sorry to say, i don't know who is out there now composing, other than elton john/bernie taupin, and i don't want to go there.
jack
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I can't remember whether this is a brand new item or not, or whether it has been posted or whatever . . . but I just read a very interesting item that might make interesting reading on TDS:
Our boys' incredible kiss was voted the #5 Most Memorable Screen Kiss of all time, beaten out only by From Here to Eternity, Spider-Man, Breakfast at Tiffany's and Ghost. The link to the article is: http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/from%20here%20to%20eternity%20kiss%20most%20memorable_1006851
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a brokeback ballet might be easier. think i'll bring it up with a dancer i know, pretty good choreographer.
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a brokeback ballet might be easier. think i'll bring it up with a dancer i know, pretty good choreographer.
Easier? Is that what Brokeback is to be all about? But a ballet might not be quite so easy. There are some little matters of music and choreography. Good taste in tights can be very thin ice. But... bring 'er on!
A work of this grandeur is going to spawn many offspring down the years. Lookin' forward to a stage version that gathers the best of the book and the film into itself and allows countless young actors to bare the hearts and souls of Ennis and Jack.
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easier in the sense thata BB ballet might be easier to get onstage then a BB opera. A dance production is also cheaper to mount. In no other way is it easier [o fer chrissakes o-doggie!!why does BB have to be difficult lol].
The thought came to mind because my son's step brother is a dancer choreographer here in NYC and his input would be vey cool to have. he's performing Sept 9 at the Cunningham studio.
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Ah, Rodeo! Ah, Billy the Kid! An' Oklahoma?
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lmao
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In response to the Wal-Mart article --
I know I shouldn't expect anything resembling rational rhetoric from the Family Research Council. I mean, their arguments are always bizarre as well as bigoted. But "I don’t think this is something that will sell on Main Street America, where most Wal-Mart stores are located..." ::) ::) ::) Every Wal-Mart I've seen has been built on a freshly-dug-up farm or ranch, someplace on Highway X out on the outskirts of town, in a big box with a bigger parking lot.
Or maybe the Family Research Council has moved on from redefining words like "family" and now is defining "Main Street" to mean "sprawl"?
The Family Research Council really is something straight from 1984, I swear.
I don't care who Walmart wants as customers, I won't shop there until they pay all their employees fair wages and improve health benefits. As for the Family Research Council - They are wrong, but Walmart needs to improve their policies on lots of other fronts.
P.S. On another subject, thanks Lyle for your extremely clever limerick, you are a peach of a creative guy!
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I don't care who Walmart wants as customers, I won't shop there until they pay all their employees fair wages and improve health benefits. As for the Family Research Council - They are wrong, but Walmart needs to improve their policies on lots of other fronts.
I second that. Their decisions on every front are made as business decisions. It has nothing to do with morality or social change. They will do everything they can to make it seem like it they are concerned, but the bottom line is always the bottom line, period.
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Thank you once again for the wonderful Daily Sheet.
Talking about Brokeback being a classic. The biggest afternoon tabloid in Finland held a vote "Most romantic movie ever". Brokeback Mountain was sixth after "Titanic", "Casablanca", "Gone with the Wind" and some others. So, yes it has become/is in process of becoming a true movie classic.
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A work of this grandeur is going to spawn many offspring down the years. Lookin' forward to a stage version that gathers the best of the book and the film into itself and allows countless young actors to bare the hearts and souls of Ennis and Jack.
This forum alone is proof that Brokeback Mountain has spawned the highest creativity in people and I will support anyone, succeeding or not, that aspires to that.
"...I just like the direction you're goin."
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A work of this grandeur is going to spawn many offspring down the years. Lookin' forward to a stage version that gathers the best of the book and the film into itself and allows countless young actors to bare the hearts and souls of Ennis and Jack.
This forum alone is proof that Brokeback Mountain has spawned the highest creativity in people and I will support anyone, succeeding or not, that aspires to that.
"...I just like the direction you're goin."
Right on! An' won't it be somethin' when two ole geezers, Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal, totter into a theater to see their grandsons huggin' and kissin' night after night!!! ('Course a lot of us will be spead out as ashes up on some mountain by then...)
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From the 3 September Daily Sheet:
Please keep these rules of thumb in mind when posting pictures…
• Limit of one picture per post
As someone who has made some rather well-received posts in the Photo Captioning thread that involved more than one picture (my Brokeback / Brady Bunch theme song parody had, as I recall, twenty-seven jpegs in it) I feel compelled to point out that The Daily Sheet breaks this “rule” every day.
Well, Rules of Thumb are just that -- guidelines. Of course there are cases that call for exceptions, and I would say that both TDS and the Photo Captioning thread fit into that category.
The point about posting only one photo per post is to prevent the case where several people post multiple picture posts, and all of a sudden a single page in the thread has 10 or more photos to download. Had they all been put in individual posts, then it's likely they may have been spread over more than one page. Again, this is to be expectd in the Captioning thread, as well as any others that focus on photos, and I think those cases would be excepted. Never the less -- generally it already is the case in Captions that posters do not combine unrelated captions and photos in a single post.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh253%2Fmontezumae_2006%2Fhowdy.jpg&hash=9f334953793c89b5325568a81c42e4f2b35624b3)
a historical document by now...
what a lovely profile of Linda!
M.
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oh, wow, that's a blast from the past, M! :D
i have to add that linda's profile was wonderful,
and it warms my heart to know she's gotten back
as much (or more?) as she has put into the forum.
my hat's off to auntie for all her dedication and the
inspiration that she brings to this wonderful website!
xoxoxo to auntie pasta linda killersmom, then and now!
:-* :-* :-*
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Lyle,
I love your version of string theory. Very nice. :-* :-*
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I really liked the past weekend's profiles of Terry and Auntie!
Thanks for all your work. I'm glad for all the comments in this thread lately.
:)
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I'm with Jack on this one BBM would make an excellent subject for an opera the whole thing is scripted like someting out of Verdi to begin with ;)
Take a look at the Music thread if you haven't already - Rosewood came up with a great outline, I think it was about two weeks ago. Made me want to go out and buy a ticket to the performance, pronto. In the right hands, it could be an excellent opera.
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Isn't Opera a treacherous pasture? Think of all those porkers whose voices are great but, yuck, not to look at.
Well, so much for drama expressed in music: apparently, the prima donna must have a little butt, long legs and big boobs or at least part of the audience won't give a flying poot about the libretto, music or anything else.
And, of course, the baritone might be gay.
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Isn't Opera a treacherous pasture? Think of all those porkers whose voices are great but, yuck, not to look at.
Well, so much for drama expressed in music: apparently, the prima donna must have a little butt, long legs and big boobs or at least part of the audience won't give a flying poot about the libretto, music or anything else.
And, of course, the baritone might be gay.
I always respond to the issue of girth in opera singers with the following analogy. It's like a bell. The smaller the bell the tinklier the sound. If you want a big resonating sound you gotta get a big bell. But I must admit that for an opera like this to be convincingly executed you would need to find singers that could convincingly play young, rugged ranchhands. That would be difficult.
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you would need to find singers that could convincingly play young, rugged ranchhands. That would be difficult
gonz, i have to respectfully disagree, this doesn't have to be written for difficulty, but for sincerity. it could easily be written with performance by gifted beginners in mind. trained singers don't usually start out with that girth, they tend to acquire it. visit a performing arts school for confirmation. music needn't be extraordinarily difficult to convey feeling. even though it is not a favorite of mine, i can certainly imagine some of curly's numbers from carousel being the stuff of brokeback.
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you would need to find singers that could convincingly play young, rugged ranchhands. That would be difficult
gonz, i have to respectfully disagree, this doesn't have to be written for difficulty, but for sincerity. it could easily be written with performance by gifted beginners in mind. trained singers don't usually start out with that girth, they tend to acquire it. visit a performing arts school for confirmation. music needn't be extraordinarily difficult to convey feeling. even though it is not a favorite of mine, i can certainly imagine some of curly's numbers from carousel being the stuff of brokeback.
What I said was that finding singers would be difficult, not that the music has to be difficult.
I have actually demurred when Phillip Glass and Robert Wilson were mentioned in the context of our fantasy opera concept precisely because the music and production would be very esoteric and appeal only to followers of those two men. A very limited group.
You have actually mentioned something about "Billy Budd" in the context of this discussion. Would you trust an opera of that scale to any recent graduates of music academies? Potentially you could find some gems of great talent but for an opera to survive it must rely on being performed. You can't count on recent graduates or gifted beginners. They may still have a figure and could convey the youth of the characters involved but lack the experience necessary to carry even the simplest of music. It is not necessarily the technical difficulty of the music that makes an opera. It is the depth of emotional experience that the singers have that make it work. You then would need to pick from a steady stable of experienced singers and finding a slim, mature and experienced opera singer is kinda hard.
I personally have no problem with opera singers being large as per my bell analogy. For these roles (as for Billy Budd) IMO you wouldn't want Luciano Pavarotti at his prime because he simply would not appear convincing.
The difficulty I was referring to was that perfect balance between talent, looks and ability to bring emotion needed to the role. That would be difficult.
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In contemplating that last response I have come to the conclusion that, no matter how it is executed, I don't think it is good subject for an opera. More importantly I don't think I would like to see it. Somehow it is a jarring thought. I am probably too emotionally involved in what we already have to want any more. It's like slash. I'm glad people get enjoyment out of it but it just ain't for me.
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hmmmm...when I get home and have access to my BBM photo collection I'd intended to continue the saga ofBitchin Bobby, in a 'Days Of Our Lives' sort of way. mean after all, he drove Jack out of Childress and back to Wyoming and Pennis...I mean Ennis...and then killed his granpaw with that mouth!!!
But maybe I should mount a musical production of " A Brokeback Thanksgiving" instead....Cecilia Bartoli as Lureen, Grace Moore as Grandma Mothra, George Bush as LD, Opie as Bobby, me singing Jack Twist.......who knows, it might work!
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I did not know Martin600, but the piece on him in today's DS moved me to tears. Thanks to all who helped to craft that beautiful obituary and who gave such a moving insight into Maori culture. I am never ceased to be amazed by the members of our communtiy and their generousity of spirit. Martin600 is still among us.
Pete
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Yes, thanks for the in memory of Martin. I didn't know him either, but he must have been a very interesting and nice person. My thoughts to all of you who knew him and especially to his family.
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I don't care who Walmart wants as customers, I won't shop there until they pay all their employees fair wages and improve health benefits. As for the Family Research Council - They are wrong, but Walmart needs to improve their policies on lots of other fronts.
I second that. Their decisions on every front are made as business decisions. It has nothing to do with morality or social change. They will do everything they can to make it seem like it they are concerned, but the bottom line is always the bottom line, period.
Hi, TB.....you don't know how right your are. I was the first Co-Manager in a very specific role created for that chain, and let me tell you, working for them as a manager, is like being a POW-it is much worse even than being an hourly employee. They've been sued so much, the don't dare step on an hourly worker; but Managers are treated like S--t, and between not getting paid for the built-in OT that can be almost twice a 40 hour workweek, their bennies really do stink. it is ALWAYS about turning a profit, never let them kid you. I know all the tricks.
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On Wednesday's TDS, I meant to feature montezumae's poem in its entirety, but due to a glitch in the formatting, I lost the beginning in the transfer. I have fixed it on the Daily Sheet but am also including all the text in this post. I was very thrilled that montezumae included me in her dedication of this poem and I admire its honesty and beauty.
You never lied to me
Before you were born
I babysat
And hated those lies
That mothers told their children.
The day you were born
Your own man
'Fine as a pine'
Blue eyes in the delivery room
Boneless blue
You saw through me
So I could not lie to you.
The price I paid for crisps
Names of streets
How much I had to drink.
Little things.
The day you came out
When Heath and Jake were in Alberta
I
was
stunned.
You said
'You never lied to me, so I won't lie to you'
Never had a compliment meant more.
If girls didn't mind your mess
They could come to stay
So now, a man
No problem.
You're just the same, but tidier.
Take care of the little truths
And maybe the big ones will take care of themselves.
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RE: Hysteria over a little mini-series ...
I think it's pretty hilarious that we suppose the most virulant anti-Bush network is NOW trying to help the Republicans! Also hilarious is taking Clinton's word on what is a lie and what isn't! :-\ Virtually no one has seen the final cut ... what are we talking about here?
Then, there's the 'oppressive climate' thing ... expounded by G Clooney and the rest who claim they 'can't make their films or whatever' while we are watching the very films, etc., that 'couldn't be made'. Well, NOW we have the Demo hierarchy threatening to pull ABC's broadcasting license????? Yikes. I think we need to draw a deep breath and let broadcasters and film makers do their thing ... I'm all for freedom of speech! ;)
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Personally, I come to this forum for solace from everyday life, and to reflect with others what the movie Brokeback Mountain has meant to us. I for one, would rather not read anything in the daily sheet or be pointed in any direction from the daily sheet to any one members little political grandstand.
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I think we need to draw a deep breath and let broadcasters and film makers do their thing ... I'm all for freedom of speech! ;)
Well, not to be antagonistic or anything, but freedom of speech applies equally to Daily Sheet editors as well as broadcasting companies, no?
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I saw part one and it didn't seem fake. More like they dramatised --a in compressed time, morphed characters, etc, for the sake of a movie's flow. I loved Clinton, he didn't come off badly at all, but then I think---a lot of people don't think. A lot of the audience will treat it as absolute fact even with the disclaimer. Maybe I'm wrong, we will see tonight, but I bet Bush comes off about the same as Clinton. I hate Bush, this would be very sad if the moron comes off well.
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Of course, freedom of speech belongs to all. Some of us spent years of our lives preserving that, and many still are defending us. I am just so glad we have this forum to share our thoughts with folks who actually think and 'get it' ... 'it' being the lessons of BBM about mutual respect and acceptance, about not pigeonholing and stereotyping and ... oh, well, I think we can agree to disagree, eh? :)
I believe both Clinton and Bush will share in the 'negatives' by the time this is done. I don't hate either one and am very glad the decisions were not mine to make. I spent many years in military intelligence gathering and analysis and have a teensy idea about how hard it is ... I'm looking forward to the second part.
I thought the 3 big, bold declarations about not being a 'documentary' ought to be sufficient for even the silliest, shallowest of viewers, but, I'm afraid Brokeback_1 is right about some folks believing everything they see on tv. (sigh) Let's just 'brighten the corner where we are', OK?
And, thanks to all for your insights! :-*
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Of course, freedom of speech belongs to all. Some of us spent years of our lives preserving that, and many still are defending us. I am just so glad we have this forum to share our thoughts with folks who actually think and 'get it' ... 'it' being the lessons of BBM about mutual respect and acceptance, about not pigeonholing and stereotyping and ... oh, well, I think we can agree to disagree, eh? :)
You bet!
I believe both Clinton and Bush will share in the 'negatives' by the time this is done. I don't hate either one and am very glad the decisions were not mine to make. I spent many years in military intelligence gathering and analysis and have a teensy idea about how hard it is ... I'm looking forward to the second part.
This is a place where we can definitely agree. I might add not just Clinton and Bush, but the whole, bilateral Washington, DC "culture" will share in the negatives.
I thought the 3 big, bold declarations about not being a 'documentary' ought to be sufficient for even the silliest, shallowest of viewers, but, I'm afraid Brokeback_1 is right about some folks believing everything they see on tv. (sigh) Let's just 'brighten the corner where we are', OK?
And, thanks to all for your insights! :-*
My television has had only one thing on it, BBM, for months (well, maybe a couple of other things, but we can't really talk about those in polite society.) ;) ;) Consequently, I can't comment on what this "show" amounts to in any way. The left has its propoganda and the right has its propoganda, and all too often we get stuck in the middle. Anything we can do to not get hit by the mud flying from side to side is A-OK with me.
Peace, Love and BBM :)
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I thought the 3 big, bold declarations about not being a 'documentary' ought to be sufficient for even the silliest, shallowest of viewers, but, I'm afraid Brokeback_1 is right about some folks believing everything they see on tv. (sigh) Let's just 'brighten the corner where we are', OK?
And, thanks to all for your insights! :-*
Thanks for your notes, NWWaguy - You know what I don't understand -- there have always been movies and tv shows based on historical events, but usually they at least make an effort to represent the facts. When we go to see a movie like Nixon, for example (how many years ago was that??) it is because we're looking for insight. We know the screenwriters were not really privy to all the private conversations, but we appreciate a sincere effort to dramatize what might have happened.
In this case, my own feeling is, why go into something like this claiming from the start that it isn't factual? Why not just go ahead and try to make it a bit more factual? Especially now, when the line between news and entertainment is increasingly blurred-- and young people say they learn about candidates from Jay Leno and other late-night talk show hosts. I know the answer to my own question-- at this politically charged time, the network could never please both the Clinton camp and the Bush camp. But then, I find it troubling that there is no protest about this "non-factual" movie from the Bush camp.
As for the story in TDS, I chose it based on timeliness and a small salute to the activism expressed by a couple of posts.
fifteen-minute Dixie Chick
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You know that little Bobby, somebody needs to slap him upside the head. Maybe they could wire his jaws shut, too. ;D ;D
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tellyouwhat, I have no 'inside' info on why ABC did what they did with the story. From my experience, the first part seemed to fit how things went in the intel-gathering, analysis business. I am told they did time-compression and melding of characters to save time in telling the story, and seemed to have caught the positions of the various characters pretty well, 'tho they had to fictionalize some of the conversations. This is quite standard in this sort of thing, and a lot of the 'disputed' moments have been backed by those who were there. ABC is a very anti-bush network, so I am certain they didn't do this to 'help' him. By the time it's done, I think everyone will have to take their lumps. :)
I'm guessing the R's did not object 'cuz it's a silly thing to do and makes the objectors look at least strange, if not ... I'm guessing the 3 disclaimers were a partial answer to those who objected without having seen it. Kinda makes me think of all those who carped about BBM and didn't see it and wouldn't bother to ... :-\
And, I'm glad you chose the story for TDS ... it's sparked an interesting and informative conversation.
Steve
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I too am very glad that Ellen put this in the Daily Sheet. It was a very worthwhile attempt to bring the 'real world' into the Forum for an important event, namely the 5th anniversary of 911.
As for me, you can take the boy out of Brooklyn and put him on horseback wearing a Stetson but you can't get the New Yorker's 911 memories out of him. Nor would I want them gone, it happened, it affected everyone I know, it hurt people I know, it killed some people I knew. It changed the world we live in, changed it for the worse. On 9-10-06 while driving around Manhattan the preparations for Monday's events were in evidence everywhere. The traffic was horrendous,security ubiquitous everywhere. In any conversation,' 5 years ago' came up unbidden, people related where they had been, what they had done. Booking the restaurant for our rehearsal dinner the staff got into a conversation with Katrina and I in which we all told each other where we had been, what our personal experiences were, who we knew, who had been hurt in some way.
Around town it seemed the same. At a meeting tonight off of Times Square memories came up, hurt came up. The hurt ranged from actual physical to financial, a lovely woman of 30 pulling her skirt high to show the burn scars on her thigh, a fellow who had lost his livelihood, a middle aged mothre who had ben in therapy for 3 years as a result of 911...and a few who knew noone, and suffered nothing but the collective communal shock.
I'm very glad the Daily Sheet brought up 911.
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I did want to let everyone know that our forum is a broad community that IMO is an example of the best use of that word in either a cyber or a real world setting. In a world where people bemoan the lack of real community, I think our forum is a real testament to the continuing spirit of community in today's world (and a true global community at that).
As a community, we have a common denominator: our love for and appreciation of BBM. Our discussion of BBM and our dedication to its themes and artistry have pride of place in our community: we have four boards devoted to BBM that lead off our forum, and we have a host of campaigns that are making a real impact in spreading the themes of BBM and raising the world's awareness of BBM. We also are one of the web's foremost communities in regards to highlighting alternative fiction devoted to BBM.
However, like any real community, we also offer our members a number of other venues and means to express their individual interests and to form common bonds. We have a range of threads on all sorts of topics from the trivial to the very serious. We are happy to afford our members a place to strengthen their community bonds by engaging in conversation on such varied interests.
Likewise, The Daily Sheet is a reflection of our forum. Jan and Ellen are free to highlight the wide variety of topics discussed on our forum and are encouraged to do so. I think they strike a very good balance with BBM news (from the funny to the serious) and other news of interest to our members. Obviously, as with any news source, every topic may not appeal to every person. However, from all reports, our members find TDS on the whole to be a great source of forum news and forum happenings and also a contributing influence to creating community on the forum. I am very proud to work with Ellen and Jan and think they do a very fine job for the forum, for our members, and for BBM.
TDS will continue to feature diverse subject matter as well as BBM-related subject matter. I know I personally am not always interested in every story we run in TDS, but all-in-all, I find it an informative and entertaining read each day. I hope our members find it the same.
Pete
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Thank you so much for the link to the Twist Ranch House photos in the 9/12 daily sheet.
What a shame to see the place crumbling away. That location lent a particularly haunting aura to the film.
One wonders what real life dramas were played out in the life of the families who inhabited it.
Jay
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Thank you so much for the link to the Twist Ranch House photos in the 9/12 daily sheet.
What a shame to see the place crumbling away. That location lent a particularly haunting aura to the film.
One wonders what real life dramas were played out in the life of the families who inhabited it.
Jay
Find seeing the "Alberta" Twist ranch horribly, horribly sad. Riminds me of visiting Dachau once...
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I know I personally am not always interested in every story we run in TDS, but all-in-all, I find it an informative and entertaining read each day. I hope our members find it the same.
Pete
I am in complete agreement. I don't have much time to devote to reading and contributing to the form, but I think I have read TDS every day since it began. Pete, Jan, and Ellen (and others) are doing an awesome job and I, for one, really appreciate it! Big thanks.
Rick
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I don't read the DS every day either, but I DO check out the daily about 4 times a week and catch up on what's going on. So I guess you could say yeah, I read every story lol.
Jan and Ellen do a very good job. It takes large blocks of time out of their lives to get it done WELL. Ellen has a young son, Jan has numerous obligations. Yet on alternating days, without financial compensation they manage to put it all together-- and they do it for each of us. I've met Jan, and speak with Ellen on the phone; both are LOVELY & talented people who use their talents for US.
Without being either censorious or worshipfull, I think the words THANK YOU are in order.......
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I'm sure Jan and Ellen don't mind a little worship now and then. :D
(And if it were Jake doing it, it would be even better.)
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I'm sure Jan and Ellen don't mind a little worship now and then. :D
(And if it were Jake doing it, it would be even better.)
Actually a little sleep is what I really need! LOL! --- although, if Jake were to show up . . . well, I don't mind telling you, I wouldn't be invitin' Adrian over to keep him company! LOL!
I do really appreciation all the kinds words, Jack and everyone! Jan
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rick-in, brokeback_1, Pete, and all y'all, thanks for the psychic-income boost. So glad you like TDS.
Worship, nice idea. Should I look for the reality check in the mail?
rotfl
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I dont know if anyone else has notified this forum yet- but there will be an auction of BBM wardrobe i.e. jeans.belts.boots and more on October 13th to Oct 20th with proceeds benefitting the Human Rights Campaign -Web site for info is www.seenon.com/auction
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I am always impressed with the great articles that Jan and Ellen publish. It has become my first stop everyday.
I used to read EVERY post on every thread. That is obviously no longer possible :D.
So the articles in TDS really help me find out what's going on and lead me to threads that I normally don't get a chance to read.
Thanks for the great job!
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Ahhh Mary, those were the days. Better yet was when we were all on one thread! I don't think we could do that now. No one could keep up.
Pete
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I want to reiterate what many forum members already know. This is a awesomely creative and intelligent group. Recently, there have been so many times when I am at the keyboard laughing hysterically at the humor displayed here. The photo captions, of course, are great including one published this week in TDS: You ranch people? You village people? by Lyle (Mooska). And, today's Funny of the Day, Brokeback Resumes from royandronnie, was a real treasure. Thanks a bunch for the smiles and laughs!
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question. are the not yet posted sept 4-11 daily sheetes available somewhere ??? ??? ??? thanks
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question. are the not yet posted sept 4-11 daily sheetes available somewhere ??? ??? ??? thanks
Yes, here is the link: http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=12659.0
Hope this helps! Jan
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question. are the not yet posted sept 4-11 daily sheetes available somewhere ??? ??? ??? thanks
Yes, here is the link: http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=12659.0
Hope this helps! Jan
thank you!
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As I posted some time ago, I look at TDS every day.
Still do.
John
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I wouldn't be caught DEAD eating peanut butter, the stuff is completely gross. It's just as easy to slice a tomato, add basil drop in olive oil a slice of mozzarella and salt and eat THAT as it is to eat some gross concoction made of oily thickly mashed nuts which all but choke you when you swallow the crap.
French children are wise.
blecch. barf
and I wish i'd worn the denim shirt in that photo lolololol....it was very interesting Sunday, not only all the wonderful people so happy to connect but in that only one person wore a cowboy hat ....after all, <g> this WAS in the Big Apple!
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Peanut butter is rich thick sticky goodness, the nectar of the Gods.
Rick
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A little Daily Sheet turmoil -- events beyond our control --
Pete, who updates our newsbox, is en route from Taiwan to the U.S., with limited or no access to a PC. That's why the newsbox was not updated until late yesterday (Monday) and today it is not updated to link to the Tuesday Daily Sheet.
Jan (CactusGal) is having trouble with her internet connection this morning. Luckily she sent me her draft for Tuesday last night, so I posted it for her. Just scroll down from Monday's TDS.
We hope to get back to normal soon, if the creeks don't rise.
Thanks for reading.
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I wouldn't be caught DEAD eating peanut butter, the stuff is completely gross. It's just as easy to slice a tomato, add basil drop in olive oil a slice of mozzarella and salt and eat THAT as it is to eat some gross concoction made of oily thickly mashed nuts which all but choke you when you swallow the crap.
French children are wise.
blecch. barf
Jack, you really have to work at not holding back so much when you post. It's okay, you can tell us what you really think. :D :D :D
and I wish i'd worn the denim shirt in that photo lolololol....it was very interesting Sunday, not only all the wonderful people so happy to connect but in that only one person wore a cowboy hat ....after all, <g> this WAS in the Big Apple!
As a matter of fact you looked quite fetching in your red plaid shirt. :-*
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One caveat about today's DS. It states that Dave will be on CBS. Is it not supposed to read CBC...Canadian Broadcasting Company? That is what Dave said yesterday in LeBar.
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One caveat about today's DS. It states that Dave will be on CBS. Is it not supposed to read CBC...Canadian Broadcasting Company? That is what Dave said yesterday in LeBar.
Hi Jackie -- I guess we need to wait and let Dave chime in here. I re-checked the msg he sent me yesterday and it does say CBS -- still it would be an easy mix-up -- I'll PM him. Thanks. Jan
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One caveat about today's DS. It states that Dave will be on CBS. Is it not supposed to read CBC...Canadian Broadcasting Company? That is what Dave said yesterday in LeBar.
Hi Jackie -- I guess we need to wait and let Dave chime in here. I re-checked the msg he sent me yesterday and it does say CBS -- still it would be an easy mix-up -- I'll PM him. Thanks. Jan
In that case, would it be "The National" that he would apprear on?
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One caveat about today's DS. It states that Dave will be on CBS. Is it not supposed to read CBC...Canadian Broadcasting Company? That is what Dave said yesterday in LeBar.
Hi Jackie -- I guess we need to wait and let Dave chime in here. I re-checked the msg he sent me yesterday and it does say CBS -- still it would be an easy mix-up -- I'll PM him. Thanks. Jan
OK, folks. Heard back from Dave -- it really should be CBC -- was typo in what he sent me; however, he is on hold right now waiting to see if he is going to be on -- as the producers move things around - You know how TV is! Will let you know if I hear more. Jan
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Peanut butter is rich thick sticky goodness, the nectar of the Gods.
hear hear!
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Peanut butter is rich thick sticky goodness, the nectar of the Gods.
hear hear!
Even two young cowboys up on Brokeback in 1963 would have had peanut butter. Right?
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It was the orange plaid shirt. I look good in it on a horse with a High Plains backdrop. In Manhattan..so-so
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(psssst -- brokeback_1 never admits to wearing a "red" shirt.)
You look great in orange, Jack! Almost as good as when you wear "brick."
;D
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I just read the column by Barbara Minze and was shocked (shocked, I tell you!) to see that she's never read BBM. I sent her a nice e-mail suggesting that if she was afraid of being offended by any descriptions of gay sex she could ask a friend to white-out the only three lines in the story that do so (the FNIT), but that she owed it to herself to not miss this story. I also included a link to the "Affected" thread in case she wanted to take a look at how the story has affected others (both men and women).
If there's anyone else who feels as strongly about this as I do, you might consider dropping her an e-mail yourself, especially if you are a woman who initially thought you might find the gay sex offensive but ultimately did not.
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If there's anyone else who feels as strongly about this as I do, you might consider dropping her an e-mail yourself, especially if you are a woman who initially thought you might find the gay sex offensive but ultimately did not.
Right -- but remember, she is essentially on the right side in the argument (siding with the school and librarians who wanted BBM available to the students) so if you urge her to read, remember she's not a BBM opponent.
Thanks Joe
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Welcome to all new members of the TDS staff!
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aSK THE PEOPLE THERE, IT REALLY WAS ORANGE PLAID. Orange I tell ya, Orange. it looks great on a horse.
Now, as for BRICK, I swear that other shirt is brick lolololol. Hell it was the same one Jack's wearin after the Motel when he's smokin by the truck ...and as for peanut butter i defy anyone to find a trace of it in Brokeback Mounntain <g>
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aSK THE PEOPLE THERE, IT REALLY WAS ORANGE PLAID. Orange I tell ya, Orange. it looks great on a horse.
Now, as for BRICK, I swear that other shirt is brick lolololol. Hell it was the same one Jack's wearin after the Motel when he's smokin by the truck ...and as for peanut butter i defy anyone to find a trace of it in Brokeback Mounntain <g>
Whatever you say, Jack. If you think that shirt is orange, just remind me to never ride in a car with you when you're driving, cause you won't see red lights, only orange ones, and Lord only knows if you'll stop!
As for the peanut butter, some awfully wicked (and fun) thoughts were running through my head just now, but since there are ladies present, I'll keep them to myself. ;)
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...and as for peanut butter i defy anyone to find a trace of it in Brokeback Mounntain <g>
'Cause they ATE it all, that's why. Peanut butter is why American boys are all red blooded.
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Let's open up a little bed and breakfast operation up in Ft. MacLeod, Alberta. It could be a sweet life!
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I'm really glad FindingBrokeback.com published that interview with Darryl Solly,
the locations guy on the movie. It really shows how, on even a "small" film like
BBM, how much work goes into every aspect of a production. And if you did your
job right, the audience never even thinks about it. It should all be invisible.
Rick
OK, I'm going to go eat some lovely lovely gooey peanut butter, now. YUM!
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there is no evidence that Jack ever offered those vile greasy gluey nuts to Ennis. and it was orange plaid, hopefully someone who was there will confirm it lol
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there is no evidence that Jack ever offered those vile greasy gluey nuts to Ennis.
What???!!! Oh, I get it. I thought you meant...er, never mind. ;) (Clearly I'm incorrigible and should be spanked. Any volunteers?)
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aSK THE PEOPLE THERE, IT REALLY WAS ORANGE PLAID. Orange I tell ya, Orange. it looks great on a horse.
Furthermore, what is this supposed to mean???
;D
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umm, I was unclear. Take as follows: I look damned good in that shirt on a horse.
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aSK THE PEOPLE THERE, IT REALLY WAS ORANGE PLAID. Orange I tell ya, Orange. it looks great on a horse.
Furthermore, what is this supposed to mean???
;D
I think it means he's been playing dress-up with his horse.
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there is no evidence that Jack ever offered those vile greasy gluey nuts to Ennis. and it was orange plaid, hopefully someone who was there will confirm it lol
Hot damn! Ennis helped himself to Jack's nuts for years. Sometimes roastin' 'em right by the fire...even rolling 'em in the dirt!
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And once again I've steered the conversation straight into the gutter. ;D
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And once again I've steered the conversation straight into the gutter. ;D
That weren't the gutter. That were the campfire! An' both their wives made peanut butter sandwiches.
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NOBODIES wife made :( peanut butter sandwiches. And they roasted nuts for years, methinks in the dirt :o.
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MODERATOR !!!! :o ::) ;D
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So what a coup getting Diane Osana for the daily sheet!
It was great to hear from her
(Back on topic now I hope)
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Ellen really did a lot of legwork to get Diana O for us. Diana is very aware of our forum and made several hints that she knows very well how to navigate around on here. As I told Ellen, I find it very gratifying that the creators of the art that so touched and inspired all of us are actually taking the time to share with us. Many fans of great art don't get this personal experience with the artists.
Great thanks to Ellen and Jan for getting this artists to share with us.
Pete
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How wonderful of Ossana to say hi to us in the Daily Sheet! She's a great hero for us all!
Great work Ellen, Jan, and Pete, and thanks for the heads up on Frank Rich's book Dave!
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MODERATOR !!!! :o ::) ;D
Tattletale!
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MODERATOR !!!! :o ::) ;D
Tattletale!
WHAT HE SAID
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The Darryl Solly Interview linked in TDS today--very good!
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From today's Daily Sheet:
Anyone remember what they were doing that day in 1967? … I don't know for sure, but I probably watched Disney's Wonderful World of Color on TV that evening...wonder what it was?”
Well, believe it or not, this information came to me today!
:o :o :o
(Where does one find out this stuff?)
Anyway, on September 24, 1967, the episode of Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color was ironically titled "How the West was Lost"!
It was an animated program with Goofy, Pecos Bill, Sluefoot Sue and Pistol Pete--narrated by Bill Thompson and Roy Rogers.
Now ain't that a hoot!
It was also noted that day you could've watched episodes of Gentle Ben, The High Chaparral and Bonanza.
Or perhaps a title more in keeping with Jack and Ennis's situation, unfortunately:
Mission: Impossible.
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Okay, I loved the caption to the shot of Jack washing the shirt in the river! Good job, HR!
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elle_ann, terrific job on today's Daily Sheet. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. :-*
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Yes, it was a great job. I think our two new Asst Eds (Elle and Kathy) have proven to be great additions to TDS team!
Pete
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elle_ann, terrific job on today's Daily Sheet. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. :-*
Thanks, Jackie!! It's been a total privilege to work alongside Ellen and the rest of the team. And having worked on two issues now, I take my hat off to both Ellen and Jan for the amazing amount of hard work they've put in over the last six months!
*round of applause for them both* 8)
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Excellent idea, Elle...To Ellen and Jan and the whole TDS team:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi9.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa94%2Fsheepdogg%2Fth_appl.gif&hash=85e99217bfafb74f8e9faad9bdcb6f9562f87ac8)
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Jackie that is wonderful! Love it!
Let me join the love fest and mention our formatters/proofreaders, twistedboy, gnash and sparky. They all add their artistic touches and ideas for layout that we editors are too wrung out to attend to. Twistedboy did this seven days a week over the summer.
We are very grateful for all the new volunteers. Elle_ann and all of you are great to work with.
Today's sheet formatted by gnash, take a bow --
All of you are doing a great job :-*
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Excellent idea, Elle...To Ellen and Jan and the whole TDS team:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi9.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa94%2Fsheepdogg%2Fth_appl.gif&hash=85e99217bfafb74f8e9faad9bdcb6f9562f87ac8)
Wonderful!!! I love this pic! :-)
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I stole it from someone else, in the Diner, I think! ;D ;)
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I'm sorry if this is misplaced (is this thread for saying that we like TDS or discussing things raised in it?)
Regarding the "Signs of SameSex Cheating" List (available via the link in todays TDS), I'd have to say:
This list should be treated very lightly. As the author admits, "very little has been written" and that's abundantly clear. It seems to be either "DUH!" items (#2, #13-14-15) or things that fit certain stereotypes (#4) or things that describe loutish straight guys in general (#10). ::)
#16 I will place in a special ring of hell for its chilling effect on male intimacy, affection, and friendship. By searching for SIGNS of gayness, we disallow normal male contact. 16--- Suspicious non-verbal communication with other men - a look, a touch, or hug that lasts a little too long or has undertones of intimacy - jeez, whatever happened to 'this is my friend - I like him a lot, and no, we AREN'T fucking each other, thank you very much.'
My apologies if this is in the wrong forum - point me where I need to go.
-btb
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I posted the list in its entirety on the Bisexuals Speak thread, which seemed the most appropriate.
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I'm sorry if this is misplaced (is this thread for saying that we like TDS or discussing things raised in it?)
Regarding the "Signs of SameSex Cheating" List (available via the link in todays TDS), I'd have to say:
This list should be treated very lightly. As the author admits, "very little has been written" and that's abundantly clear. It seems to be either "DUH!" items (#2, #13-14-15) or things that fit certain stereotypes (#4) or things that describe loutish straight guys in general (#10). ::)
#16 I will place in a special ring of hell for its chilling effect on male intimacy, affection, and friendship. By searching for SIGNS of gayness, we disallow normal male contact. 16--- Suspicious non-verbal communication with other men - a look, a touch, or hug that lasts a little too long or has undertones of intimacy - jeez, whatever happened to 'this is my friend - I like him a lot, and no, we AREN'T fucking each other, thank you very much.'
My apologies if this is in the wrong forum - point me where I need to go.
-btb
But YES this is "respond to the Daily Sheet" so this is a good place to post because others might not know where to look if you are posting a discussion in another thread. So thanks to both of you, backtobrokeback, and WLAguy.
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I was fascinated and appalled by that list at the same time. It's filled with stereotypes and misconceptions, just the sort of thing to make a paranoid female even more paranoid.
Their was another daily sheet item about NYC being the home of the Brokeback Effect and yeah, THAT I readily believe because it pointed out that most of the men concerned were --very unPC, thank God!!--immigrants from poor countries. They are guys from Africa, Latin America, Asia who are fairly recent additions to America. Their cultures do not allow homosexuality, it's a disgrace, they hide it. No matter what they do they aren't gay... it's amazin.There are 2 Chinese men on my mother's block who are living as man and wife but they aren't gay. Nope. Not at all. They are just good friends from Fukien Province saving to bring their WIVES over by living together in the same apt, cooking together, having domestic spats, sleeping in the same bed and having sex.
But are they gay?? Nope.
lol
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#16 I will place in a special ring of hell for its chilling effect on male intimacy, affection, and friendship. By searching for SIGNS of gayness, we disallow normal male contact. 16--- Suspicious non-verbal communication with other men - a look, a touch, or hug that lasts a little too long or has undertones of intimacy - jeez, whatever happened to 'this is my friend - I like him a lot, and no, we AREN'T fucking each other, thank you very much.'
-btb
Speaking of BTB's "whatever happened to..." above...
I was watching a WWII era documentary that was showing life in typical towns and cities on the home front, and the cameras showed many young males posing for the camera with their arms around each other, affectionate embracing and, well, touching each other. You NEVER see that now. What have we lost in this country when straight men can be so afraid of touching another male for fear the "J'accuse!" finger will be pointed at them? Just simple human contact. It made me a little sad.
Also: If you want some amusement over that list, check out the photocaps thread:
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=323.17055
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OMG... me and my avatar are in the Daily Sheet! How friggin' cool is that? ;D
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OMG... me and my avatar are in the Daily Sheet! How friggin' cool is that? ;D
Go Lin!! Slash thread rocks and Skeleton crew rocks double! Le Bar will be humming tonight!!
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in answer to the question about ang lee movie referred to in BBM.
I KNEW THAT !!! LOL
that would be the ice storm.
heh heh
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Give it up to The Daily Sheet crew! Just love the variety--columnists, profiles, caps of the day etc etc. There's always something to read that makes you go "Hmm. I did not know that."
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Wheeee !!!!!!! :D ;D :-* ;D :D
CONGRATS T. Y. Dub
on your BBMMth!!
Thanks for all you do
and just for being T. Y. Double YOU ! :-* :-* :-*
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oxhey.herts.sch.uk%2Fimages%2Fballoons_confetti.gif&hash=72d0b588f093f58562c23282ad5f73c19ae10748)(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oxhey.herts.sch.uk%2Fimages%2Fballoons_confetti.gif&hash=72d0b588f093f58562c23282ad5f73c19ae10748)
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Thanks to Casper and PlanetGal for doing the member profiles!
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WDJ thanks for all the excitement, you have made my day!
And thanks to you for all your work on the book, you DC volunteer extraordinaire!
In belated celebration of your BBM5K, I rushed out to bake you this virtual cake, red velvet, hope you like it.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi216%2Fellenclaire_photos%2Fcake.jpg&hash=f1fbbdc197a79b3890d66a0e4189dbf68034c98d)
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Thanks Ellen!!! Red Velvet!! Mmmmm.... my favorite!!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3Au_qzMy1_1YXzMM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.sheepinthecity.prettyposies.com%2Farchives%2FCake3.jpg&hash=d0d5edc0802d7808ca865af52648beb852a79a8e)
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Thanks to Casper and PlanetGal for doing the member profiles!
You're welcome! :)
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has anyone else noticed that mwp2Paris is on the missing list and the very next blurb talks about mwp2Paris in todays Daily Sheet?
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has anyone else noticed that mwp2Paris is on the missing list and the very next blurb talks about mwp2Paris in todays Daily Sheet?
Hmm. Are we sure the CIA isn't secretly running things here? :D :D :D
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No outing the CIA operatives!!! In answer to your question, folks in the book thread picked up on the irony and have PMd the MIAuthor. And while we're at it, we might as well ask WHY he didn't read the Daily Sheet himself!
Hmmmph
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Hey guys -- in the daily sheet today there are several pictures from the Slash Bash that contain people who did not authorize the posting of their pictures outside of the slash threads. Since the slash threads are in the members only section, we had two people authorize their pictures to be posted THERE only.
Please update the TDS:
The Saturday night gang photo has an edited version that is acceptable: HERE (http://www.sunponyranch.com/images/satnight group blurs.jpg)
The Lunch Group at Navy Pier, and the next both have pictures of Mondavi, that need to be edited or removed. Any slash bash pictures that have been cross posted to the Reunion Pictures thread should be acceptable for TDS.
Monica
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FYI this has been fixed --
and a note to everybody, -- if you consent to post your picture in a particular thread, then your pic is published and you are taking the risk it may show up in another thread. We do our best to comply with all privacy requests but when you consent to publish your picture please be aware you are taking that risk.
Today's Daily Sheet has been modified to comply with the info LoveEmBoys provided.
Thanks
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“I thought it might be worth creating a little comments page..."
Good Lord. If this is Dave's idea of a "little comments page," his idea of a summer cottage must be Candy Spelling's mansion! :D
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As Brokeback Mountain makes its way through the media distribution chain, our Forum continues to attract new members. We may experience yet another wave when HBO begins to show our movie next month. Only one short year ago, this would have been impossible to believe. Here are a couple of early comments by Dave Cullen and Parenthetical Greg:
“I thought it might be worth creating a little comments page to centralize the Brokeback commentary of people coming by here in one place. I'm not sure anyone but me is actually interested enough yet to comment, but once the movie starts approaching U.S. distribution in December, they will be.”
Dave Cullen • 9/25/05; 10:45:12 PM #
“Maybe we should start a blog where people can post their own Brokeback-inspired stories?”
Parenthetical Greg • 12/14/05; 8:26:54 PM #
If you are feeling nostalgic for the old blog (or just curious), click here to visit Dave’s original Brokeback Blog. (http://rcs.salon.com/rcsComments/comments?u=1137&p=1685&link=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.salon.com%2F0001137%2F2005%2F09%2F25.html%23a1685)
Oh my god. That makes me laugh so hard now. I sure had no idea.
And I can't believe I missed our anniversary! Sorry, honey(s).
I can't believe we've been at this over a year, either. Wow.
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its still a few days from my brokeback anniversary (10/30/05) but i can surely believe it HAS been that year. so very much water over the dam since then, and countless changes in my life. the biggest is that that move i had been contemplating, albeit slightly modified will be occurring, come hell or high water in less than a fortnight, if i have to put a torch to the stuff i can't store or transport.
tropics here i come.
jack
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Hey Sparky, you sure ain't easy to please ;D
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Thank you Jan for the information about Matthew Shepard and the upcoming event in NY. Just a reminder, "The Laramie Project" will be shown at the Equality State Book Festival in Casper, WY. next week, followed by a discussion with Judy Shepard, Matthew's mother. This happens on Oct. 20th, Friday.
Adrian
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Thanks so much for the question regarding which actresses Larry McMurtry liked in the movies inspired by his books. His independent thinking is a great inspiration to me! Great issue today!
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really at 09:46pm
(...)
we had lots of excitement leading up to the gatherings, and strong feelings right after. as linda predicted, several active posters faded away after attending--they had reached a logical concluding point of their own. others were energized by the gatherings, and grew more active than ever. others didn't go and didn't care one way or another about that aspect, and went on as usual.
i wouldn't call all these latter events distinct phases for the forum, but things did gradually change. in these latter periods, though, it seems to me that the changes were less cohesive--meaning that say right before the oscars and right after, we had a massive number of members changing in the same direction. now we seem to be in more of a period where some are drifting one way, others another. i think that's fine, too. different stage.
we'll continue to evolve. some good friends will drift away; some of them will come back, some won't. and new people will drift in. i have a feeling that a year from now we will be referring to certain high-profile and long-term members who aren't even here today. and others will be up to 20,000 posts and still going crazy for nearly two years.
i really don't know how we're going to evolve, but we will. and some people will treasure the latest evolution, others will have no use for it. we'll come and we'll go. but hopefully most of you guys will be with us for quite awhile.
for everyone who has come and gone, and everyone with us and to everyone still to come: i never dreamed this forum was going to turn into this, and i am deeply grateful for all the insights and feelings and pain and sorrow and happiness and love we have shared. looking forward to a whole lot more.
d
Thanks, Dave, awesome post. I think all of us who are posting--and most of whom are or recently have gone into lurking mode--will definitely keep referring to you long after a year from now. This forum and the whole website has grown into an amazing teamwork, I know--and that for example has resulted in the great TDS series 'Meet the Creators'--but you founded this place that is the safe footpath down for I don't know how many hundreds of people previously stuck in a solitary spot upon Brokeback Mountain.
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Loved the DS congrats to all!
About Dave's post, I believe the the forum is going through normal growing pains and is morphing into something we can all participate in making. That will be fun.
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Loved the DS congrats to all!
About Dave's post, I believe the the forum is going through normal growing pains and is morphing into something we can all participate in making. That will be fun.
I have really been enjoying TDS too! It is a great summary of what is going on in and around the site! Thanks Dave for making it a great place----I have so much fun here either lurking or participating in the discussion. I do get sad when people I know move on but I also enjoy when new members start posting like crazy because I know that they are just so excited to have stumbled across this forum!! :)
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Ummm we might want to get on this. I feel disrespected and this blog is misrepresenting Dave Cullen the man and davecullen the website. Despite all that this site has been done for the careers of those connected to the movie - nay the experience - of Brokeback Mountain, we are being savaged by some tertiary functionary in the Gyllenhaal camp?
Perhaps this is the anecdote I needed to snap me out of my BBM/Jake obsession.
http://stephengyllenhaal.wordpress.com/
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Ummm we might want to get on this. I feel disrespected and this blog is misrepresenting Dave Cullen the man and davecullen the website. Despite all that this site has been done for the careers of those connected to the movie - nay the experience - of Brokeback Mountain, we are being savaged by some tertiary functionary in the Gyllenhaal camp?
Perhaps this is the anecdote I needed to snap me out of my BBM/Jake obsession.
http://stephengyllenhaal.wordpress.com/
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Interesting catch, Squall. Not so sure Cantara is as low on the totem pole as you suggest though. And I'd hate to see this being responded to by screeds of savaging emails, which would only serve to reinforce her notion of DCF as being 'sinister'. A well-thought out and well-worded official-type response would be much better, IMHO. The last thing the fans on this forum want is an alienated Gyllenhaal camp .... not with the way they feel about Jake. JustJared is pretty sleazy and his stuff IS ... well, speculative and nasty at times.
It also got me in the heart where she says: NOW I know exactly how Jake feels. Not to his degree, but exactly the type of anger.
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OK, just caught up on thread reading and see that Meli and Dave are on this already ... good. Love the internet but sheesh, sometimes ....
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I just read it. Why are we sinister? somewhat baffling, as nobody trashes jake here that i see anyway.....just the opposite.
It would be rather nauseating for us to get smeared like that. Hope we get follow up reports.
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She's figured out how to use the locking functionality on her blog now. ::) Who knows what kind of falsehoods she's spinning in there now.
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She's figured out how to use the locking functionality on her blog now. ::) Who knows what kind of falsehoods she's spinning in there now.
It's a bit sad to see that the locked post is called More on Jake and Bottom Feeders ....
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Hi all --
The more we respond on our site, the more we are giving in to the negative side of this. We know who we are and we know we're sincere in our appreciation of the excellence of Brokeback Mountain and our admiration of the artists involved. Let's not publicize erroneous messages in this thread. This is something for our moderators and Dave to handle.
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Ummm we might want to get on this. I feel disrespected and this blog is misrepresenting Dave Cullen the man and davecullen the website.
http://stephengyllenhaal.wordpress.com/
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
I'd hate to see this being responded to by screeds of savaging emails, which would only serve to reinforce her notion of DCF as being 'sinister'. A well-thought out and well-worded official-type response would be much better, IMHO. The last thing the fans on this forum want is an alienated Gyllenhaal camp .... not with the way they feel about Jake.
Hi all --
The more we respond on our site, the more we are giving in to the negative side of this. We know who we are and we know we're sincere in our appreciation of the excellence of Brokeback Mountain and our admiration of the artists involved. Let's not publicize erroneous messages in this thread. This is something for our moderators and Dave to handle.
thanks, SquallCloud, for bringing it to our attention. and thanks to elle_ann and tellyouwhat for some wise advice. i know how frustrating these situations can be sometimes, and i get how many of you were feeling hurt and/or angry the past day or two. the comment definitely took me by surprise. (especially since i've been working my ass off on this diet! hehehe.) thanks to everyone who felt anger but held off responding until we sorted it out. i really appreciate your patience and restraint.
i really wasn't sure what to make of it--seemed odd as much as anything--so i was prepared to defend our name, but my first goal was to just see what was actually going on.
i just spoke to cantara on the phone, and she could not have been nicer. she loves our site and what we have done for the film and everyone involved, and was very complimentary about us, the site, all of you.
she's going to write something to you all addressing the comment, but the gist of it is that she was venting months ago in an email in a moment, and she said something in passing that she feels bad about now. (hey, i've bitched about my mom before. and yeah, i meant the things when i said them. doesn't mean i don't love her. or that they those thoughts are representative of how i feel about her.)
when she put her correspondence out there with stephen, it was intended to be a small site illustrating how writers and editors communicated, and she really wasn't thinking about remarks that she made in passing or that word would ever get to us and we'd be insulted.
it's not how she feels about us today, and she assured me that neither she nor stephen nor jake bear any ill will or feelings toward us. quite the opposite.
and i've been a reporter for years, i have a pretty good bullshit detector, and it wasn't going off. she seemed like a very nice person, she feels really bad about hurt feelings, and she is sincerely appreciative of what we've done.
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Okay.
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she's going to write something to you all addressing the comment, but the gist of it is that she was venting months ago in an email in a moment, and she said something in passing that she feels bad about now. (hey, i've bitched about my mom before. and yeah, i meant the things when i said them. doesn't mean i don't love her. or that they those thoughts are representative of how i feel about her.)
Just for the record... She claims this is something old that popped up again, but in the blog post she was also talking about Maggie's baby - the little girl who was born only 12 days ago. So what does that say about Cantara and her explanation, really??
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Look for tomorrow (Monday) Daily Sheet. In the Dave Cullen tradition, we will show the world who we are. Thread of the Day will be Jake's Eyelashes.
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I feel very special today being mentioned so often on TDS. Thanks! Bobbie
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I just wanted to say YIPPEE for TDS today! That pic of Jake (The first one!) is the one I use in my head when I write my fan fic story about Jack and Ennis! So a zillion thnak you1 Now I'm feeling extra inspired today!
:D
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Todays DS was very cool!!!
AND very well done. AND WE FORUM AUCTION BIDDERS WANT "THE HAT", THE GLOVES, THE SPURS!!!!! However they can keep Monroe's lousy tie.
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I love the TDS today! I think that mentioning how it is easy to forget our manners online was worth mentioning because I think that it is easy to judge others when you are not looking them in the face or talking to them on the phone. I have been reduced to tears on this forum several times because I either misinterpreted what someone was saying about me or someone was just plain mean and forgot their manners. I have stuck with it though--I love communicating with so many people I would never have the chance to meet. The occasional tear I may have is worth it because my life is being so enriched by so many people here. :)
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Another classy movie by this forum, featuring Jake's Eyelashes in TDS !
It was wonderfully created and correctly captured the true character that IS Jake's Eyelashes!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU !
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Lashers is where I started, lurking for a long while. They're fun, zany, racy, thoughtful, clever, very special folks. Diverse...but like a family. And really fast posters! Thank you for such a perfect story on TDS, esp. today. Others said it before me, "very well done" & "classy". I think you did indeed "show the world who we are", in a very positive way.
Love this forum! Peace to all, Melby
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Congrats and thanks TellYouWhat for the story from Larry McMurtry!!! :)
Great work - it's wonderful to learn a little about our heros!
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It's about time for me to mention that wonderful interview Tellyouwhat [ Ellen] managed to procure for the Daily Sheet. Larry McMurtry has been an inspiration for me personally. As a fledgeling writer you need examples, role models if you will. Larry is certainly one of my main exemplars. Along with Diana Ossama, Annie Proulx, Gibbon, Caeser--an odd collection but a good one!--Larry McMurtry teaches others how to write while telling a damned good story.
I particularly like the respect re the way this interview was presented to readers--his own thread, no less. This should be done from now on. When we get writers of such quality who are willing to spend time with us they deserve no less.
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And the Forum NEEDS to know this: Brokeback Mountain has changed Wyoming English. I had dinner with Forum Member wyomen tonight, in my favorite reeeeally wierd town, Cheyenne. He told me that we are now called BROKEBACKERS.[ Hows that for a hoot. No queers up in Wyo, just Brokebackers. Wait until photocaps gets awind of it hahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha]
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And the Forum NEEDS to know this: Brokeback Mountain has changed Wyoming English. I had dinner with Forum Member wyomen tonight, in my favorite reeeeally wierd town, Cheyenne. He told me that we are now called BROKEBACKERS.[ Hows that for a hoot. No queers up in Wyo, just Brokebackers. Wait until photocaps gets awind of it hahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha]
Hey Jack! I'd already made a note of this for TDS tomorrow, after your PM. LOL, too funny!!!!
Elle
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"Somewhere out there exist extreme far right gay Republicans. I pity them. I fantasize about beating them with large blunt instruments that sport rusty spikes."
STILL laughing at this one, Sparky.
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And the Forum NEEDS to know this: Brokeback Mountain has changed Wyoming English. I had dinner with Forum Member wyomen tonight, in my favorite reeeeally wierd town, Cheyenne. He told me that we are now called BROKEBACKERS.[ Hows that for a hoot. No queers up in Wyo, just Brokebackers. Wait until photocaps gets awind of it hahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha]
You should have been there when wyomen was herdin' us up and around Brokenback Mountain this June. Took weeks to get his paint marks off our wool. Baaah!
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I know, baaah! :)
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Hi all,
I wanted to point out, concerning the 'no forum events scheduled' this thread:
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=15406.0
You might want to check with John before featuring it in the Daily Sheet, but it sure seems like a forum event.
mf
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Yeah! Sparky's column part 4 is here!
Love your stuff so much, Sparky. Your anecdotes, thoughts, even your individual word choices! I LOL at almost every line. Thank you. Will hope for more.
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Yeah! Sparky's column part 4 is here!
Love your stuff so much, Sparky. Your anecdotes, thoughts, even your individual word choices! I LOL at almost every line. Thank you. Will hope for more.
Love Sparky's column -- what a breath of fresh air in a murky world!
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Shucks. I'm blushing.
I aim to please, folks. ;)
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I just want to wish our great TDS "founding editors" the very best as their real lives re-emerge. Thank you all for a daily newsletter I enjoy more than the daily headlines from the NYTimes. TDS makes me either laugh or cry every day; the NYTimes doesn't do that for me. The team of volunteers you leave behind have already been doing top quality work, and I look forward to many more mornings with coffee and TDS.
Thanks and best wishes to all - past, present, and future.
- KittyHawk
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Jan and Ellen -
Many Thanks to you for putting The Daily Sheet together so well. It is where I go first when logging in and always has great leads on stuff I'd hate to miss otherwise. The quality of my life has increased in part due to your volunteer efforts.
Best Wishes.
Jay
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Ingrained Thinking!
In my new campaign to diminish the view of AMPAS and the oscars as the end all and be all of film taste, I continually find myself re-wording my own sentences.
For example, I used to see a film with an amazing performance and say "Do you think they'll get an oscar nomination?" Now I say: "Do you think they'll get award nominations?" or something similar.
In that spirit, how I would change this sentence in today's Daily Sheet:
"Ang Lee, who won the 2005 Academy Best Director Award for the film Brokeback Mountain, has committed himself to the challenging task. "
to:
"Ang Lee, who won over 25 awards as Best Director for the film Brokeback Mountain, including the DGA, BAFTA, and (if you must) Academy Award, has committed himself to the challenging task."
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[
quote author=Jay63 link=topic=8377.msg533444#msg533444 date=1161184312]
Jan and Ellen -
Many Thanks to you for putting The Daily Sheet together so well. It is where I go first when logging in and always has great leads on stuff I'd hate to miss otherwise. The quality of my life has increased in part due to your volunteer efforts.
Best Wishes.
Jay
Hey girls you made a great contribution to our little community here.....thanks so much for your time and effort.
sydney
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Jan and Ellen, Thank you always for the priceless contributions you two have made to this Forum. I've enjoyed every single Daily Sheet. I wish you both well in your future endeavors, and hope that you both have more time, now, to roam the halls here and enjoy all that this site has to offer.
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TDS Gals - Allow me to echo the previous comments singing your praises. I know how much works goes into such an enterprise, and you guys consistently did a great job. Sorry I can't hug you in person, as we did in Texas, but know I'm sending psychic hugs of appreciation your way! Love, Des
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whoever comes after these two class acts will have very big shoes to fill
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Jan and Ellen,
Thank you for starting the wonderful DS and for all the hard work you put into it
Congrats on finding some wonderful folks to carry on the great work.
In the words of Melissasjack:
You rock!! :D
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Ellen and Jan!
thanks for all of your hard work on the Daily Sheets! You will be missed.
elle_ann, kmich, gnash, and twistedboy, I know you will keep the great Daily Sheets coming!
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:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
I so much appreciate all your messages -- I would not come in here to interrupt except I am on my way out of town early in the morning.
You have all meant so much to me-- and will in the future.
I'm on my pilgrimage to Wyoming due to the courage I have gained from participating here.
And I will re-surface with a few more Daily Sheets before next week ends.
Love
Ellen
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Oh, Ellen, good for you. Give Wyoming a big hug from all of us! :-*
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Jan and Ellen, thank you so much for the work you have done in producing such a wonderful series of newsletters.
elle_ann, kmich, Jimmy, and Gonzo, you have big shoes to fill, as has been said before, but I'm sure you all will do a great job. I know from first hand that Jimmy's talents are limitless.
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This is all very overwhelming -- but much appreciated!
When we started out, we had NO idea that TDS would become so popular here. I'll miss it but won't miss you all since I still plan to be active on the Forum -- and, in fact, look forward to having more time to engage on the threads.
So, thanks to you, our readers and friends! Hugs! Jan
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Hi All,
Just wanted to say that elle-ann and I are very aware that we have some big shoes to fill! :D We'll do our best to uphold the high standards that have been set for TDS. After helping out for only about a month or so, I have to stay that I've been amazed at how much work goes into TDS and at Ellen's and Jan's (and twistedboy's!) ability to sustain that pace for so long. They've all been absolute sweethearts about showing me the ropes and I greatly appreciate it.
Kathy
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Hi All,
Just wanted to say that elle-ann and I are very aware that we have some big shoes to fill! :D We'll do our best to uphold the high standards that have been set for TDS. After helping out for only about a month or so, I have to stay that I've been amazed at how much work goes into TDS and at Ellen's and Jan's (and twistedboy's!) ability to sustain that pace for so long. They've all been absolute sweethearts about showing me the ropes and I greatly appreciate it.
Kathy
*What she said* ;D
Ellen and Jan have indeed raised the bar when it comes to the quality of an online forum's daily news sheet - in fact, I'm wondering now if there are any other forums out there which publish a daily sheet of any sort? Does any one know? It's not a phenomenom I'd come across before I arrived here ....
Anyway, my thanks too, to Ellen especially who held my hand through my first couple of Wednesdays ... *hugs to you, hon*. I hope that we'll continue to enjoy the support (and the story leads!) from the Forum as a whole - we'll certain do our best to try and deliver the kind of TDS you've all become accustomed to!
Elle
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Oh, Ellen, good for you. Give Wyoming a big hug from all of us! :-*
And Wyomen! :) ;D
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OMG OMG OMG we love you Ellen and Jan!! Thanks so much for all you do!!
And elle_ann, kmich, gnash, and twistedboy, thanks for taking on the task for the future! :)
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Ellen and Jan are both rock stars.
And on top of that, Jan sometimes also dons a cape and is Wonder Woman.
Hotshit. That's the costume, Jan !
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I'm wondering now if there are any other forums out there which publish a daily sheet of any sort? Does any one know? It's not a phenomenom I'd come across before I arrived here ....
Elle
Yes. Ennis & Jack forum has a newsletter. Their's is only weekly and cannot be compared to the sheer volume of content produced on a daily basis.
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Ellen and Jan are both rock stars.
And on top of that, Jan sometimes also dons a cape and is Wonder Woman.
Hotshit. That's the costume, Jan !
Oh, god, Sparks -- you know I don't have the body to carry that off! Jan
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Jan & Ellen -
Thank You!!
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Thanks so much for all the effort and hard work I know that you both have put into this endeavor and the great results you produced day after day! Much luck in all that you do in the future and hope to see you in more and more threads around the forum!!
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Ellen and Jan are both rock stars.
And on top of that, Jan sometimes also dons a cape and is Wonder Woman.
Hotshit. That's the costume, Jan !
Oh, god, Sparks -- you know I don't have the body to carry that off! Jan
That's why God made corsets! ;D
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That's why God made corsets! ;D
I always thought Satan did that - both because they are painful and soooo sexy....
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That's why God made corsets! ;D
I always thought Satan did that - both because they are painful and soooo sexy....
Oh, Jeez, Here I was perfectly content to just be a pirate and now you guys have me all laced-up! Mmmmmmmmmmmmm now maybe if it were leather. . . .and I had a whip. . . . .! jan
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all of the gents posing have also served in iraq, and all of them recieved injuries of varying severity.
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Quote from TDS 2006/10/20
2007 Military Calendar Competes with Brokeback Calendar
SFGate: Culture Blog! wonders: Is this the gayest military calendar ever?
“Sure, some soccer moms in Colorado will swoon over this calendar. Sure it might sell big in small military towns across George Bush's red 'Merka. But is it also just a little weird and odd and funny and telling that this calendar is also almost exactly like the beefcake calendars you find in, say, the Castro?”
Beefcake isn’t the half of it. Jack and Ennis actually have surrogates in the calendar’s June photo, as I point out in this post in Photo Captioning Fun:
In honor of the America’s Heroes 2007 Calendar, featured in today’s Daily Sheet:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg75%2Ftfmisc%2FAmericasHeroes2007CalendarJune.jpg&hash=289c0188399b31ce543d426f42d7ef5d26205113)
Marine (thinks): You don’t suppose the photographer who composed
this picture has seen Brokeback Mountain, do you?
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg75%2Ftfmisc%2Ftfmiscbyline.jpg&hash=5027c0b38ffed2a86c8d2a161034e63035d0e71c)
I can just imagine the photographer thinking: “If they’re not asking me why I’m posing them this way, I’m not telling them that I’m turning them into gay icons.”
I must say - I am very taken with that reflection in the rear view mirror! Ah, youth.
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The Daily Sheet is getting better and better!
Thanks to all for your fine work :)
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Jan and Ellen, thankyou so much for all your splendid work with TDS. Also thanks to all who assisted you. Good luck and many hugs from me to both of you in what comes next.
Welcome to the new TDS crew!
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Elvan,
Just wanted to say I LOVE your sig line!!!
Just what I needed to hear today ... ;) :-*
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TRINKET IS IN THE PAPER TODAY!!!!! HOORAY!!!! :-* :-*
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Thanks for the welcome, Elvan! (and others)
Love your avatar, too. We're in the home stretch for the book--fingers crossed!
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Ellen, I'm so glad that you found the illustrated Close Range for Annie to sign! You turned that excursion into a great story! Thanks!
- Lydia
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I was just looking in the Close Range thread and found that tfmisc posted all six of the illustrations from Close Range in the thread! If I had known that yesterday I would have put the link in the Daily Sheet, but here it is now for anyone who has not seen them yet.
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=12416.msg530898#msg530898
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Hey, Ellen, it was great to meet with you in Casper last weekend! Hope the rest of your stay was enjoyable. ptannen and I took the scenic route back to Denver and saw Independence Rock, the covered wagon ruts, and Laramie. I've started posting some pictures and reviews over on Bettermost on the Social Events forum. You have to be a registered user to see it. Best regards, Front-Ranger (Lee)
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Welcome Front Ranger! So glad to see you over here. I actually am a member over on your board but I have never posted. I'll be over to look at the pics as soon as I get a chance. Still catching up with things going on over here!
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This forum has given me so much joy these past 9 months. I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the staff of The Daily Sheet for giving me the opportunity to be profiled this past weekend.
It was a privilage and an honor. Very nice, THANK YOU SO MUCH !
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coming a bit late to thank Ellen and Jan, but I will anyway. You're both an example to us all. love Chris xxx
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Elle_ann...thanks so much for TDS today. I always enjoy all of them, but today's was especially good, so just wanted to let you know. It has a wealth of information and just overall a good feeling!!!
It is really great and to get all the advanced notice on things! A very good job!!
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Elle_ann...thanks so much for TDS today. I always enjoy all of them, but today's was especially good, so just wanted to let you know. It has a wealth of information and just overall a good feeling!!!
It is really great and to get all the advanced notice on things! A very good job!!
Thank you so much!! I have to say, it's wonderful when the news-out-there co-operates so sweetly, providing us with all sorts of interesting things to pass on to you guys. ;)
But seriously, as both Kathy and I have discovered over the last six weeks or so, producing TDS is fun, but takes a lot of energy, so its really cool to hear that the results are appreciated! So, thanks again!! :D
Elle
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elle_ann that was great. It's exciting that the cd will be out soon, and the whole page was fun. thanks!
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Yes, Elle_Ann, wonderful work. I'm really surprised that the DVD won't be released before Christmas. I'd buy a bunch for Christmas presents, if they were available.
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they probably want the old stock to sell first. At Christmas.
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I just heard there's good news in New Jersey!! 4 to 3! :) :) :) :-*
And I quote: "The times have changed." Hooray!!!
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4 to 3 what???
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They are supposed to announce their decision on gay marriage today at 3... chews fingernails ...
http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/national/MI31623/
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perfect timing for the administration to use it. perfect timing to make people forget George i's a moron, too. How DO we fall into this trap over and over again?
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Probably won't make much difference in the elections, since Diebold / Bush already program the voting machines! ::)
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Elle_ann...thanks so much for TDS today. I always enjoy all of them, but today's was especially good, so just wanted to let you know. It has a wealth of information and just overall a good feeling!!!
It is really great and to get all the advanced notice on things! A very good job!!
Hopefully we can get this added to the "Ultimate Brokeback Store" so we can get credit for pre-sales.
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So about the New Jersey court decision on gay marriage...
If I understand correctly, the 3 who dissented were actually taking a stronger position for gay marriage.
Their position was that the state should provide marriage to same-sex couples the same way it provides to mixed-sex couples.
(I love that they used the term "Mixed-sex couples" :) :-* :) )
The prevailing decision - that the legislature has to devise a way for the state to provide at least something "like" marriage - was still favorable, but not as favorable.
The really GOOD take on this is that the state supreme court UNANIMOUSLY favored at least something like marriage. ;D
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This forum has given me so much joy these past 9 months. I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the staff of The Daily Sheet for giving me the opportunity to be profiled this past weekend.
It was a privilage and an honor. Very nice, THANK YOU SO MUCH !
Well, thank you, trinket, for agreeing to let us profile you. :)
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Thanks CactusGal for your fine work it was much appreciated, hope to see you around on the threads! :-* :-* :-*
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Thanks for all your hard work CactusGal! Now don't stray too far into the Eyelashes thread - you may never be seen again if you do! :D
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Thank you, Jan, for another wonderful edition of TDS. Best of luck with the next chapter in your life, and I look forward to bumping into you all over the forum now.
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You sure now how to make a gorgeous exit: nice work and acknowledgements. thanks to you and all that you named! wow!!
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Jan, it was great to meet you at the BBQ; I remember how busy you were even while it was going on. I hope we can meet again sometime, and thank you so much for all your work for us.
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We are the fortunate ones, Jan! You have brought so much to the Brokeback community; now it is our turn to cheer you on!
You will be missed.
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Jan, you have done an oustanding job with TDS and many other projects on the Forum. You inspire me with your selflessness and generosity. I will miss your editions of TDS (I read every one of them!), but I look forward to staying in touch and seeing what new opportunities life brings your way.
Best wishes always.
Lucas
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Jan, you and Ellen have both done a terrific job, and really set the bar quite high for those stepping into your shoes. Good work, guys.
(And now I can stop holding my breath -- Sparky has reached the end of his list, and I didn't fit any of the types he mentioned!)
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh253%2Fmontezumae_2006%2Fcollage29.jpg&hash=2ca9dd51b779cd0d1bf3110329248fb46c2e5cdb)
saying it with flowers - thank you Jan - you and Ellen have provided my essential reading ever since you started TDS
hugs Chris
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Checking in from the road at Escondido Public Library to say what a joy it has been to work with CactusGay and Tellyouwhat.
And, of course, now that you're not editing the daily sheet I can't wait to see you in threadland more!
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Jan is here in LA and has no access to email yet. But she wanted me to relay her thanks for all the nice comments.
She'll be checking in soon. Probably tomnorrow night when she is at Camp Sparky.
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(And now I can stop holding my breath -- Sparky has reached the end of his list, and I didn't fit any of the types he mentioned!)
OMG. Did I forget control freaks ?
;D
:-*
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Jan, Thank You so much for the wonderful Daily Sheets you've given us. I will miss your gentle wit, your intelligence, your insights, the enormous compassion you have brought to our newspaper. I will miss the shrewd 'news' judgements you've made, .
I will miss your passion and your style.
I know...time for other things. We look forward towards seeing you around the threads, where we will again be the richer for your thoughts.
And last but not least I'm overwhelmed at your decision to use MY post in your final edition. Didn't have a clue, lol. I'm nervous about tomorrow and while tired, I couldn't sleep; figured I'd check out the Thursday DS and go back to bed. Well... first I saw it was your FINAL DS.Now THAT was a surprise, we've been so busy and drained since the Book Expo that I didn't realise you were leaving roday, I thought it was NEXT Thursday! [ truly, i can be one clueless male at times!] Then I saw my own post and was floored.
It always surprises me when someone thinks a post of mine is special; you have no idea how humble I feel about your decision to use it on your last day. Thank you soooo much jan, for everything..................with any luck it will give someone else hope. that's what BBM can give to people if you open up your heart.
Hope.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh253%2Fmontezumae_2006%2Fcollage52.jpg&hash=40d927526d589f02a5f76bbde9550d69a3a3aa9f)
Dear Ellen
Thank you for the amazing difference you have made to my life and others.
May you have huge success with the writing
love
Chris
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Ellen, thank you so much for all your hard work in bringing the TDS to the Forum, and doing it with style, wit and intelligence. You are a treasure. What a way to go out, with your fabulous story on Annie Proulx. Good luck with your future endeavors, and I look forward to seeing you around the threads.
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Ellen, you really started out your editorship with a bang! The story of Ms Proulx's speech and answer to questions was super, as was the whole article! Thanks so much!
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Ellen
Thanks So much for the great story about the Book Fair with AP. It was wonderful to hear about it from you and the others there.
And thanks so much for being such an important part of bringing the DS to us - I look forward to each each day
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Many thanks Ellen and Jan for months of wonderful reading... We'll miss you in the paper, but we'll see you in the threads ! !! :'( :-*
And thanks to bb1, Adrian, Front-Ranger, and Ellen for the coverage of Annie's talk today!!!
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You folks have give us the next best thing to being in Casper.
Can't thank you enough...and you've just escaped the snow!
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Okay, okay, okay.
You just had to mention that the first PM from a forum member came from me and that I was in full-chastise mode. "No that's not right, nag, nag, nag." (Isn't it obvious that I'm a Virgo, always seeking perfection. And in this madhouse of all places.) It has been a pleasure working with both of you gals and has given me great opportunity to practice my mission of perfecting the world. "Excuse me, but this link just doesn't make any sense!! Maybe you should try this one?" ;) ;) I can't exactly say I'll miss you cuz yer really not going anywhere, but I will miss correcting your hideous mangling of the English language (both of you). :P :P
With much love and a sincere hope that your lives be as fun not being TDS editors as it was back in the day when you were.
Yours sincerely,
twistedboy
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Wow! I didn't expect to be quoted in TDS! Thank you!
But being a bit of a language buff, as many of you know, I have to point out that my words were a paraphrase, not a translation. Anyone reading German will enjoy his longer and much more detailed description of his encounter, linked below. I'm afraid my paraphrase was knocked off as I read the original and switching between windows and is not terribly good.
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=8638.msg541747#msg541747
But thank you anyway, Kmich!
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I can't exactly say I'll miss you cuz yer really not going anywhere,
True!
but I will miss correcting your hideous mangling of the English language (both of you). :P :P
Why don't you tell us what you REALLY think? ???
With much love and a sincere hope that your lives be as fun not being TDS editors as it was back in the day when you were.
Yours sincerely,
twistedboy
Likewise to you Gonzie.
And thanks to all of you for your kind messages, some of them public, some of them private. Lyle said it felt like the "last day of school" which is sad but also, I reminded him, lessons are over, now time to play!
(and the new editors are doing so great, it is impossible not to notice.)
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I am truly saddened yet again, by the politics-of-personal-destruction New Yorker magazine cover. It was a baseless, ugly choice to begin with ... and to think the 'editors and publishers' org find this one the 'best' is disheartening, to say the least. And, now, to find it plastered on TDS makes my heart sink.
Did we learn nothing from BBM? ... to parody this incredibly important and moving film to score political points of such ugliness? Clearly, the editors of New Yorker in particular and the others who voted for this disgrace, either did not see the film or got nothing from it if they did.
Sorry to feel I have to say this. I LOVE TDS and enjoy the insights, articles, links and all it offers. Thanks for all your good, hard work. I just wish this one hadn't been included.
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NWWaguy, I am responding only as the former daily sheet editor -- not in defense or support, only observation.
Well, a little bit of support, because when I read today's TDS that item seemed to me only to have a Brokeback connection, the political side did not jump out at me at all. But of course that is because I mostly subscribe to the politics of the New Yorker. But I believe kmich was only reporting all aspects of a Brokeback-related story of interest to our readers.
Here is something strange-- I remember that cover. At the time I had not read or seen Brokeback Mountain, and was merely tired of the hype surrounding the movie. As I recall that cover bumped another one scheduled, because it was considered so timely. Mostly, I thought it was a poke in the eye linking the conservative G. Bush and Cheney with the well-known "gay" themed poster of the movie. Had I been enamored of the movie at that time, I don't think I would have liked the cover-- it strikes me as disrespectful of Brokeback Mountain. I think you said the same thing.
I am sorry you are sad-- truly-- dialogue between both political sides is necessary, and you are one of the best at that. But I wish I could convey to you my very great sadness at everything I have been forced to watch the current administration do over the last six years. The characterization by the artist, as described in the award, seems to me so much common knowledge, so mild compared to the way I feel about those two, you have no idea the sadness. I am sad we are all so sad.
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Another matter of interest --
During the Annie Proulx panel in Wyoming last week, when the topic was cowboy myths and realities, one person asked the panel about how George Bush is called a "cowboy" overseas, and that is clearly not meant as a complement. Annie Proulx stated that the term "cowboy" is often used abroad to describe Americans who go it alone, make erroneous decisions, assert their own will and generally mess things up for others. Then she said:
"If it can be said that Noah was an extensive shipper of livestock, then George Bush is an extensive shoveler of BS."
I hope the religious right don't read our site and give AP any more grief. It was at that point that Front Ranger asked her question about sacred cows in the hope the conversation could end on a more positive note. Which it did.
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Hi NWWaguy,
Your post reminds me of something I asked when I first started working with Ellen and Jan on TDS, and that was: Do we at TDS only focus on the 'good' stuff, or do we report on all manner of BBM-related and gay-themed issues? As far as I can remember, we talked this back and forth and my understanding at the end of it was that we will at times run articles, provide links etc to items that are Brokeback-related or gay-themed, not because they are postitive, but because they exist and its good for us as readers and BBM-supporters to stay informed as to what the rest of the world is up to. As a 'news' sheet, we try to link you to 'the news'. (Some of our readers have told us that they only read TDS and don't bother with everyday newspapers - wow! :D)
Having said all that, however, I know we DO aim to include items that are mostly interesting, informative and entertaining! We definitely aim for a happy-slant!!
I'm sorry you were unhappy with this link. I agree it is not necessarily the nicest thing the New Yorker ever did but it was a news story that was popping up all over the net, and it was BBM-related, so, as Ellen said, on that basis, we included it.
One of the nicest things about TDS, for me, is the existence of THIS thread, where we as eds can interact with readers, hearing your feedback both good and not-so-good, hearing what you want to read about, what you enjoy etc etc. That really helps us in our forward planning!! So thanks for your feedback on this one and we look forward to more conversations with you all!!
Thanks, :-*
Elle
Sorry to feel I have to say this. I LOVE TDS and enjoy the insights, articles, links and all it offers. Thanks for all your good, hard work. I just wish this one hadn't been included.
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I'm sorry I'm coming a little late to this discussion. I was away all day yesterday so I'm just catching up on responses now. First off, I'm sorry that the New Yorker item saddened you, NWWaguy. That certainly wasn't the intent. However, as Ellen and Elle so eloquently stated, TDS strives to cover all BBM-related "news" items. As time passes, those items become fewer and farther between. So this was a legitimate item to cover.
While I agree that the New Yorker cover was implicitly "political," I don't think it was solely political. There are other non-political connections that could be drawn between BBM and that cover. George W. Bush has been erroneously referred to as a "cowboy," as Ennis and Jack were erroneously called cowboys. And, as Cheney's home state is Wyoming, there's another non-political connection. So there are many facets to that cover.
Thanks to everyone for their feedback. As Elle stated, it's wonderful to have this thread where we can interact with readers and get their thoughts.
Many thanks to Ellen and Elle for responding while I was out of the loop.
Kathy
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Wow! I didn't expect to be quoted in TDS! Thank you!
But being a bit of a language buff, as many of you know, I have to point out that my words were a paraphrase, not a translation. Anyone reading German will enjoy his longer and much more detailed description of his encounter, linked below. I'm afraid my paraphrase was knocked off as I read the original and switching between windows and is not terribly good.
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=8638.msg541747#msg541747
But thank you anyway, Kmich!
No problem. Thanks for the paraphrase of Ben's post. I don't know a lick of German so I would've completely missed out on this great little story without your help. :)
Kathy
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It's a bit late but better late then never.
Bye Ellen.
We will miss the way you edited TDS, it made one think, and never once failed to inform or amuse its' readers. You did a Good Job.
And Hi Ellen!
See you around the threads, we've missed your posts.
Jack
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hey, kmich!!!
Looks like you've started off with a bang!! You've taken on an enormous job.
Good luck from all of us.
jack
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hey, kmich!!!
Looks like you've started off with a bang!! You've taken on an enormous job.
Good luck from all of us.
jack
Thanks! Nothing like stirring the pot on the first time out, eh?
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From Today's edition:
The film [Babel] is receiving generally positive reviews, with Bob Strauss of dailynews.com calling Santaolalla's and Prieto's contributions "career-best."
However, I have read several reviews of this film, so far, comparing it to Crash. This makes me cringe.
For example:
In a generally negative review, Newsweek's David Ansen makes the following observation:
"...many people find 'Babel' deeply moving...A lot of people felt that way about 'Crash," which also seemed as if it had been conceived on a diagram board, from the outside in, rather than the inside out."
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Really enjoyed reading all the interesting forum stats in honor of the 5,000th member.
Also, please keep including the reviews of slash.
Nice job all around, thanks!
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Elle and Kathy, you all are doing a great job of continuing the high standards set by Ellen and Jan on TDS. Love getting my BBM news this way.
Gnash, wonderful "ads" in todays TDS. Now I want to know if anyone else, in a moment of foolish hope, clicked on the little green here.
icbiwoop for myself! ;D ;D ;D
- KittyHawk
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snorked my coffee on gnash's featured post.
And I, too, love getting all the forum news that's fit to print this way.
You ladies are doing a great job in upholding the standard for the Daily Sheet!! Keep up the good work.
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Elle and Kathy, you all are doing a great job of continuing the high standards set by Ellen and Jan on TDS. Love getting my BBM news this way.
Gnash, wonderful "ads" in todays TDS. Now I want to know if anyone else, in a moment of foolish hope, clicked on the little green here[/color].
icbiwoop for myself! ;D ;D ;D
- KittyHawk
Heh heh heh, yeah, I did!!! ;D and ICBIWOOP for me too... LOL!! Gnash, those ads are absolutely priceless, real BBM classics. You're a genius! :-*
Elle
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Thanks so much, Kittyhawk and IJSE! We know we have high standards to live up to.
And gnash's posts are just the best!! Sheer genius. Like so many others, I was disappointed that the here didn't work. :D
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I can't believe that I'm still clicking on the green here's that you all keep typing - just in case!
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Thanks for the great sheet! I am also a stupid click here clicker, you caught me Gnash!
The Thumbs In collection is a must!
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oh jeez, like you haven't seen jake (http://skinindex.com/archives/wmplayer2006-01-1201-06-50-21-thumb.jpg) in a thong (http://skinindex.com/archives/wmplayer2006-01-1201-06-49-52-thumb.jpg) already..... but i suppose you are craving a frontal shot...? ;D can't help you there! ;) :D
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Oh geez like prior history would stop us from clicking again.. and again!
I WANT that fishin buddy 3 in 1 jacket by the way-- I've been trying to order it all day, can't get through >:(
:) ;)
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Oh geez like prior history would stop us from clicking again.. and again!
I WANT that fishin' buddy 3 in 1 jacket by the way-- I've been trying to order it all day, can't get through >:(
:) ;)
Anyone have the number for Clickaholics Anonymous?? ;D ;D
Sounds like we have enough members here to start a local group!!
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Anyone have the number for Clickaholics Anonymous?? ;D ;D
Well count me in.....
oh jeez, like you haven't seen jake (http://skinindex.com/archives/wmplayer2006-01-1201-06-50-21-thumb.jpg) in a thong (http://skinindex.com/archives/wmplayer2006-01-1201-06-49-52-thumb.jpg) already..... but i suppose you are craving a frontal shot...? ;D can't help you there! ;) :D
but he made THESE ^^^ work!!!!!!!
Just messing with our heads!!!!!!!!!! :P :D
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OMG you devil!
killersmom you are very thorough!
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oh jeez, like you haven't seen jake (http://skinindex.com/archives/wmplayer2006-01-1201-06-50-21-thumb.jpg) in a thong (http://skinindex.com/archives/wmplayer2006-01-1201-06-49-52-thumb.jpg) already..... but i suppose you are craving a frontal shot...? ;D can't help you there! ;) :D
but he made THESE ^^^ work!!!!!!!
Just messing with our heads!!!!!!!!!! :P :D
Gnash aka The Click Pimp ....
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Gnash aka The Click Pimp ....
elle, i resemble that remark!!! :D :D
okay, so here's the other shot of "that model" (http://taxine.com/fullerspicer/jack_catalog_thong.jpg) in a thong... ;)
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oh jeez, like you haven't seen jake (http://skinindex.com/archives/wmplayer2006-01-1201-06-50-21-thumb.jpg) in a thong (http://skinindex.com/archives/wmplayer2006-01-1201-06-49-52-thumb.jpg) already..... but i suppose you are craving a frontal shot...? ;D can't help you there! ;) :D
but he made THESE ^^^ work!!!!!!!
Just messing with our heads!!!!!!!!!! :P :D
Yes. They. Did.
But I want to know why jimmy is haning out at the "Skindex" website.... :D :D
and I just had to spit my coffee back into my mug at the "Big and Horny" jacket picture with the red thong.
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Rob's interview in TDS of Tom Bentz is fascinating. Several things Tom said about the whole BBM crew raised my opinion of the cast and crew still another couple of notches. Sophisticated, professional, prepared, and generous to the people of Calgary. What more could you ask?
- KittyHawk
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Hi! All:
Question: My company is now blocking pictures and I was wondering if there is anything TDS could do to circumvent this? I use Photobucket for my pix and they have blocked that. They block anything streaming, video or audio. Just thought there might be some techie out there who could advise TDS Editors on a picture format that would allow me to see them. It's the PITS without most of the pictures.
This format comes through: http://web.mac.com/sic3/bbm/f/images/bb481.jpg. Is it possible to put all of the pix on TDS in this format?
This format didn't come through: http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k83/elle_ann/BBMDig288.jpg
I hate to be a whiner, but....kinda takes the fun out of TDS without the pix.
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Sparky don't throw away your Halloween costume, it's perfect for Rat Wrangling. ;) :D
Sydney
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The caption "my first, my last, my everything" just really grabbed me by the throat. Got to hide my teary eyes here at work. Thank you, twistandshout.
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Elle_ann and Kmich,
May I congratulate both of you on a job well done, these first weeks at the helm of TDS. The two of you and your able staff are continuing the excellence begun by Ellen and Jan, yet each of you is putting your individual mark on your work. Kudos all around!
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Sparky don't throw away your Halloween costume, it's perfect for Rat Wrangling. ;) :D
Sydney
Throw it away? Ha ! I rented that damned thing and it was valued at 1600 bucks.
Took it back yesterday.
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Congratulations on doing such a good job with TDS. Only the first few days and look at the articles!
Thanks!
PS--Thanks so much for giving the 'Question Crew' the credit they deserve!!!!
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Sparky don't throw away your Halloween costume, it's perfect for Rat Wrangling. ;) :D
Sydney
Throw it away? Ha ! I rented that damned thing and it was valued at 1600 bucks.
Took it back yesterday.
Worth every cent!
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:) ;D Love the book cover from Ted Haggard! Great find kmich et al! Beyond Belief ... ::)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk83%2Felle_ann%2FFoolishNoMore.jpg&hash=51b444556927a91446086dc2c27611105293cd1d)
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Love the new avatar. Nothing like a hint of irony in the morning. LOL.
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:) ;D Love the book cover from Ted Haggard! Great find kmich et al! Beyond Belief ... ::)
Well, I have to say that Elle was the one who found the book cover. We were wondering if it was a bit too snarky to print but I just couldn't bear seeing another picture of that guy. Glad you approve. ;)
Kathy
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For another great book cover from this guy, check out the one tfmisc found and posted on the photocaps thread!
Click here (http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=323.18750)!
P.S.: The photo in TDS today that "sums up the relationship between Jack & Ennis," reminds of the Jimmy Durante song:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk243%2Fkmich5%2FBBM_fight.jpg&hash=2bd07dd9c68b4fa2ec5fe843b157881746e602b8)
Did ya ever get the feelin' that ya wanted to stay...
...but ya wanted to go...
...but ya wanted to stay...
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...about Ted Haggard...
I just had to say, did anyone notice that when this news broke and he was interviewed, that his first instinct was to say that he only had called the guy to buy crystal meth? And no reporter/interviewer has asked him the question that immediately came to my mind: "So you think being a crystal meth user is better than being gay?"
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...about Ted Haggard...
I just had to say, did anyone notice that when this news broke and he was interviewed, that his first instinct was to say that he only had called the guy to buy crystal meth? And no reporter/interviewer has asked him the question that immediately came to my mind: "So you think being a crystal meth user is better than being gay?"
And also, it seems to have gotten lost that when the news first, first broke, he completely denied even knowing who the guy was ...NY Times quote: "He also said he had never met the man making the accusation." :o
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Folks,
I just posted this link on Friends & Others We Love, but I think it deserves a wider audience because of the team producing it. CBS has just committed to a prequel to "Lonesome Dove" with Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana writing:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6291231.html?display=Breaking+News
Jer009
PS--great work you all are doing!
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By the way, re the Haggard story--one of the Denver news shows<ch9?> said that it took 3 days for the story to get picked up. At first, nobody would touch it with a ten foot pole...
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Thanks Jer009! :) I'll run this in tomorrow's TDS.
Kathy
Folks,
I just posted this link on Friends & Others We Love, but I think it deserves a wider audience because of the team producing it. CBS has just committed to a prequel to "Lonesome Dove" with Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana writing:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6291231.html?display=Breaking+News
Jer009
PS--great work you all are doing!
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Just to say thanks to elle_ann for my new found fame on today's sheet! :-* :-* :-*
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Sorry to be a spoilsport, but did anyone notice that the date of that notice about the Lonesome Dove prequel was 12/14/2005?
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Sorry to be a spoilsport, but did anyone notice that the date of that notice about the Lonesome Dove prequel was 12/14/2005?
Jackie, you're right. This was an older notice. IMDB shows that Commanche Moon is in post-production already, due for US release in Feb 2007. it's still cool that its been produced, though... ;)
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Sorry to be a spoilsport, but did anyone notice that the date of that notice about the Lonesome Dove prequel was 12/14/2005?
Jackie, you're right. This was an older notice. IMDB shows that Commanche Moon is in post-production already, due for US release in Feb 2007. it's still cool that its been produced, though... ;)
Thanks, Elle...I'm glad to know it has been filmed. I'll go look up the info on IMDb.
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From what I've read--and I may be wrong--there hasn't been a spate of actors coming out. There has been a spate of actors being OUTED by other people, and that is something very different indeed, and quite wrong. Their choices were taken away without their consent. It is just as wrong for the right to condemn as it is for the left to take away a persons CHOICE as to how they want to live.
What gave those people the right to out others whom they don't even know?
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From what I've read--and I may be wrong--there hasn't been a spate of actors coming out. There has been a spate of actors being OUTED by other people, and that is something very different indeed, and quite wrong.
Ted Haggard, although not an actor (or is he?), is the type of person that should be outed as he's harming people by his duplicitousness.
And, yes, some of the now out actors have been pressured into it, but their response is what is now different. In the past it would've been denied ad infinitum by the person in question, or their publicity machines. In fact, that was the instinct of Neil Patrick Harris's publicist, to deny it. To Neil's credit, he saw that was a bad option and he came out. That is what is different.
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Ted Haggard??
Lyle, you and I disagree on that point. You just want him outed, I want him tarred and feathered for his gross religious hypocricy and nauseating bullshit.
I was raised a catholic and have no tolerance for sexual hypocrisy among religious leaders at all, look what the hierarchy did to the Church and many many kids by hiding pedophiles!!!! They should have been sent to jail.
I was in the Springs the other day,Haggard's home base, it's this hotbed of wierd cults. And you could sense ...consternation. I wish he had been revealed as a hypocrite a month ago, I think that it's one of the causes for both amendments loss here in CO. There was a guy in line with me to vote in Denver yesterday. We got to talking and he said he was voting due to the news about Haggard, wouldn't have bothered to vote if he hadn't been outed. And this guy voted yes for the ban on gay marriage and no on prop I. [ It was chaotic, worse voting conditions I have ever seen--K. and i spent 3 1/2 damned hours on line and no i am not exaggerating.]
As for the actors:
"And, yes, some of the now out actors have been pressured into it, ..."
So far as i'm concerned everything after that phrase is spin. I know you from your posts well enough to realise that you, like me, would NEVER make such a choice for another person. It makes me cringe that the people who did it...did it. Neil Harris made a lovely statement but he was forced into it, and that's what i think is wrong. He had his reasons for keeping quiet and they were his reasons. This whole society is fast losing respect for the individuals right to make choices which others disagree with.
By the way, it's a wonderful day: Rumsfeld resigned.
@Surrender monkies@ my ass!!!
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By the way, it's a wonderful day: Rumsfeld resigned.
Wonderful day, indeed, and it just keeps getting better. Looks like the Dems will gain control of the Senate too. I am soooo glad to see Katherine Harris lose her bid for the Senate, effectively giving her the boot from the Congress, that was a personal highlight for me, even though I am no where near Florida.
I agree that the only people who should be outed are those who use their positions of influence to rail against gay rights.
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[ It was chaotic, worse voting conditions I have ever seen--K. and i spent 3 1/2 damned hours on line and no i am not exaggerating.]
I cannot imagine waiting that long--it is inexcusable. When I hear about long lines to vote like that I just can't believe it. I have never waited more than five minutes to vote! No wonder so many people are using absentee ballots these days.
I am glad you hung in there and voted anyway. Good for both of you!
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HR.
I just wanted to say that even though I'd been working with your wonderful Pine Creek pictures, and had seen them again and again during the writing and formatting stage of TDS today, once this edition was up and I stepped back to actually read it properly - well!
"Gonna snow tonight for sure ..."
Then I looked at Lyle's photocap below, with Jack and Ennis at the campfire in their later years ... and the power of this story just struck me all over again - the isolation, the loneliness, the loss, the waste ... the sheer tragedy of it all as well as the love. :'(
So thank you for making that trip and sharing the pictures with us. You're awesome! And thanks too, to TP for going with you!! :-*
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Thank you for the article about the film "Paragraph 175: Preserving The History Of Gays And The Holocaust" on today's TDS.
I had a meeting last night with the planning committee for the Holocasut Remembrance Week that is held in Bay City every April.
At the meeting, we decided to expand the focus of the event to include other groups that were targeted by the nazis. For the past several years the focus has always been on the Jewish victims.
I mentioned this film at the meeting, but I couldn't remember the title. What a great coincidence!
I also mentioned the screening of Brokeback Mountain on Feb. 25, and I was pleasantly surprised to hear that a few of the committee members want to attend!
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Great sheet today, congrats to all concerned.
HR thanks for the beautiful photos!
Wish I could have been there.
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Thank you for the atricle about the film "Paragraph 175: Preserving The History Of Gays And The Holocaust" on today's TDS. What a great coincidence!
Not such a co-incidence, really - our thanks to our new ass ed, Marge_Innavera for this - it was her awareness of and interest in this area that led her to put the article together specifically for today's DS. :)
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All great stories, thanks to you all and thanks to Marge Innavera for today.
Wow you guys opened your cans of Bettermost Beans! I hope they were good. :)
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All great stories, thanks to you all and thanks to Marge Innavera for today.
Wow you guys opened your cans of Bettermost Beans! I hope they were good. :)
Didn't Jack say "No more beans" ? Thought we were on a soup diet...boxes or not!
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- our thanks to our new ass ed, Marge_Innavera for this -
Does Marge like being referred to as a new ass ed?
Also: Thanks so much for using my photocap in TDS today, but the first part of that post should be credited to the creative Jasonwv!
Thanks Jason!
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Thanks Lyle! :)
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And thank you from the TDS team to ALL the talented photo-captioners on this forum. If it wasn't for your creativity, intelligence and wit, we'd wouldn't have the tradition of closing off The Daily Sheet with a captioned pic!!
*applause* 8) ;D :-*
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Does Marge like being referred to as a new ass ed?
Alas, none of my body parts are anywhere near new.... ;D
Thanks so much, Elle and everybody else here, for the encouragement!
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Friends,
I need to make an addendum to my pics of Pine Creek. You see, I couldn't decide on the proper caption for the last pic. "Lunch?" was the wimpiest. But I would like people's opinions on these alternatives:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk83%2Felle_ann%2Fbeans.jpg&hash=c023f5777ff272de3c935caedee0c858fc5d29eb)
...Jus' like you like 'em... | (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk83%2Felle_ann%2Fbeans.jpg&hash=c023f5777ff272de3c935caedee0c858fc5d29eb)
...if he shows... |
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I can't believe the yodel conversation was in the daily sheet ...it really was quite hilarious.....
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All great stories, thanks to you all and thanks to Marge Innavera for today.
Wow you guys opened your cans of Bettermost Beans! I hope they were good. :)
All of you, thanks for the kind comments. Now about the beans...
Seems as though you can find mos' anything in small town groceries. I mean, just look:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk83%2Felle_ann%2FCans.jpg&hash=dc3881f7716fa9b32f593040f13e4e46b155e1bd)
The coffee smelled good, but sump'n was missin'.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk83%2Felle_ann%2FCoffeePotAlone.jpg&hash=2b7059de1c1c14a6a34d93815fd85cc3a848dcda)
Those modern cookin' instructions sure showed a knowledge of their clientelle. But I ignored 'em and did 'em like our fellas woulda expected.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk83%2Felle_ann%2FCookingInstructions.jpg&hash=e13683aaa21af3e575b0736a817623bd207a60b9)
Can you believe it? They musta knew we were gonna come. Either that , or we were just lucky to get them just before their expiration.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi86.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk83%2Felle_ann%2FPineCreekBeans.jpg&hash=92e926b11ae692fa6c022b66aa80f0d0f7761bd5)
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I would like people's opinions on these alternatives:
I love ...if he shows... as a caption.
It combines all sorts of emotions.
Possibility. Truth.
Both sides of the equation, wether it be positive or negative.
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Then I looked at Lyle's photocap below, with Jack and Ennis at the campfire in their later years ... and the power of this story just struck me all over again - the isolation, the loneliness, the loss, the waste ... the sheer tragedy of it all as well as the love. :'(
How beautifully you have captured the quintessance in those words :'(
So thank you for making that trip and sharing the pictures with us. You're awesome! And thanks too, to TP for going with you!! :-*
Thank you from me and my mom too. We were right there with you :-*
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Great photocap in the daily sheet today!
"Ennis: Jack? whut th'...?
Jack: S'all right, Cowboy, I'm onna roll...."
LMAO!!! :D
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Great photocap in the daily sheet today!
"Ennis: Jack? whut th'...?
Jack: S'all right, Cowboy, I'm onna roll...."
LMAO!!! :D
You're right!! Choosing a photocap is one of the great joys and great heartaches of doing TDS! There are SO MANY outstanding efforts that it's like trying to choose which child is your favorite! ;D
That's the reason why I was glad to see the new thread starting, for Photocaps Greatest Hits!! (http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=17834.0) Hopefully we'll see some of those great oldies being resurrected soon!
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Nice sheet!
I saw 'Tipping the Velvet', liked it.
I know this is stupid put is Beyonce an actual actress?
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Nice sheet!
I saw 'Tipping the Velvet', liked it.
I know this is stupid put is Beyonce an actual actress?
Is anybody an actor these days??????????????
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Nice sheet!
I saw 'Tipping the Velvet', liked it.
I know this is stupid put is Beyonce an actual actress?
Not having seen her perform, I couldn't say if she can act or not, but she's been in The Pink Panther, Dream Girls, The Fighting Temptations and Austin Powers.
(I had to go look it up, btw - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0461498/ - IMDb is a wonderful resource for anything movie related! ;)
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Tiny correction for the state where Ocean City is located: MD is Maryland, MA is Massachusetts!
Excellent job, as usual! But I'll have to wait till I get home to see the pics from Finding Brokeback, one of my favorite sites. Dialup here at work is too slow.
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Thanks, fritzkep. We'll get that fixed. :-[
Kathy
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Thanks, fritzkep. We'll get that fixed. :-[
Kathy
It's done, Kath!! ;) 8)
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Moved to comment on two stories today!
1) Bay City John's event in February is starting to look better and better. The Cowboy Astronomer event at Delta College Planetarium sounds great.
2) Right-wing Christians boycotting Walmart? This is the most fun news story I have come across in a long time! It feels like reading about two terrible villains getting involved in a fight -- with each other.
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A TONGUE IN CHEEK POST:
Boycotting Walmart?
Rhetorical question:
Let's see, Wal-Mart comes in and all the small owned stores go out of business. Wal Mart's the only thing left. So if they boycott Wal Mart, where do people shop?
As for "Catholic Bishops Pass Guidelines on Ministering to Gays"
Let's see--we think you are disordered but we want to reach out to you. As for being celibate--well, that seems to work for a lot of priests, doesn't it?
And... "it's not a sin to be attracted to someone of the same gender--only to act on those feelings." BECAUSE WE SAY SO.
ALSO: STAY IN THE CLOSET:
"The bishops are also discouraging gays from making 'general public self-disclosures' within their churches about their sexual orientation."
SO WE DON'T REALLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH YOU.
This whole stance sounds like it was for the straight people and priests who have to deal with gay people, not for the gay person as such.
Tongue may now be removed from cheek.
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Lyle -- I nearly added that story (about the Catholic Church) as #3 in my list of comments, but I decided to leave it alone, because it is silly at nearly every level. You make an excellent point about the priests, but the way it strikes me (as one brought up Catholic) is this--The actual number of adults who call themselves Catholic and follow all Church teachings is really very small. The Church thinks all single men and women, including straights, should be celibate. How many straights actually are? The Church even says married people should be celibate if they don't want children (or practice rhythm) but no birth control! Most Catholics, at least in this country, believe this is nonsense, but they don't talk about it. Don't ask, don't tell is a big part of being a Catholic in America.
There are still some, I believe who participate here, who benefit from Christianity and even some gays on our board who go to Catholic Churches, so for that person, I can understand how the half-welcome they receive from the church might be a step in the right direction.
PS I am not anti-Christian (see above post re right-wing Christians boycotting Walmart) I am anti-right wing Christian.
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Don't ask, don't tell is a big part of being a Catholic in America.
Very well put.
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Heath and Michelle WOULD like Brooklyn. Where they live is lovely. The neighbors wouldn't bother them-- in fact they'd be so delighted to have them that they'd give hapless pparazzi directions to somewhere half a mile away, they would protect their privacy as 'one of their own'. They can have the attractions of life in Manhattan while living in another world a few minutes away, with trees and great architecture. They can keep Matilda 'normal', not so easy in Manhattan. AND Heath can have a beer with Matilda's godfather in that bar on his corner w/o getting hassled lol. They made a choice which enabled them to have NORMALITY.
All in all, pretty smart.
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I've seen "CANDY" already. Qantas showed it on my flight from New Zealand last summer. It is not a very good film but Heath is excellent.
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Excellent!!! I went to tattered cover trying to find where AP was speaking, hoping I'd be back from CA. I will!!! How unspeakably COOL!!!
We will have to schedule a BBQ 'planning meeting' for it lol
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Regarding World AIDS day - I just received a newsletter from a local AIDS organization here in South Africa, which quotes these figures:
International Aids Day is on the 1st December and we see the number of people infected increasing; now standing at nearly 40 million worldwide with 4.3 million new infections this year. An alarming 2.9 million people died this year and in our country we lose close to 1,000 people every day.
Heartrending statistics ...
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Regarding World AIDS day - I just received a newsletter from a local AIDS organization here in South Africa, which quotes these figures:
International Aids Day is on the 1st December and we see the number of people infected increasing; now standing at nearly 40 million worldwide with 4.3 million new infections this year. An alarming 2.9 million people died this year and in our country we lose close to 1,000 people every day.
Heartrending statistics ...
Yes indeed - I thought of you and South Africa as I was putting that column together. A word about the statistics, the Avert statistics are from 2005 (and the CDC statistics are from 2004). It's hard to get very current statistics because the organizations involved want to make sure they've gotten everything correct before they post them on the web. So often we will see statistics in newsletters and hear things on the news that are more up to date than you find in official websites. Thanks for mentioning that!
As you may know in the United States groups that are affected by the disease have changed. In the U.S. 55% of the people who die from the disease are African American, even though African Americans only account for 13% of the U.S. population. There are many wonderful groups working to change this - here is an article about this from the S.F. Chronicle:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/17/MNG7VMEND01.DTL&hw=hiv&sn=011&sc=107
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Great article & issue, Michael and TDS crew!
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Great article & issue, Michael and TDS crew!
Why thank you! [I was a little nervous about doing such a serious topic the day before Thanksgiving, so I really appreciate your comment.]
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What a beautiful Thanksgiving Day TDS. I give thanks for all the wonderful, hardworking folks here on the Forum who allow us to be here, day after day: Dave, all the mods, and the crew of TDS! Bless you all. :-*
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Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU to all of those that make TDS a daily reality. I read and enjoy it every day. TDS keeps me up on all part of the forum, since I just visit a few, and more importantly, keeps me up on issues outside of our forum that are important to us. I'm grateful for all of your hard work - everyday!
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Thank you all for thanking so beautifully!
From up here in maple land, Happy Turkey day to all my American friends,
and MichealF, I suppose that Canada, being so cold, realized that it couldn't afford to pass on an untapped, unlimited source of warmth...
Jean
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GREAT T'G Daily Sheet. Thank you all so much. You are beyond glorious!
pia
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Thank you all for thanking so beautifully!
From up here in maple land, Happy Turkey day to all my American friends,
and MichealF, I suppose that Canada, being so cold, realized that it couldn't afford to pass on an untapped, unlimited source of warmth...
Jean
Good thinkin' there Jean!
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Hey, nice concept today! Thanks, TDS team!
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Regarding this passage from the revised Thanksgiving scene:
ALMA (red faced, to Monroe) Oh, shut up, you.
(to Ennis) And what did you mean by that "wings" comment, Ennis?
>ENNIS, with both hands, pulls his ears out and sticks his tongue out at Alma.
ENNIS They didn't get them wings from me.
>the girls giggle, Alma is fuming, Monroe is preoccupied ...
The "wings" line refers to a deleted scene that may be found on p. 97 of The Big Script, Scene #97, in which Alma Jr. is an angel with tin-foil wings in a school Christmas pageant which is attended by Alma and Ennis. There is no dialogue, but an inattentive Ennis is poked to attention by Alma.
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Thanks, TDS crew, for all your hours put into TDS for "my" enjoyment.
Regarding the Penguin Book--I had forgotten about that real-life story when it was in the news a few years ago--and coincidentally, I came upon a rerun of WIll & Grace the other night that had dealt with that story--set in the Central Park Zoo. Interesting!
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Dave has an important announcement about the forum, which he asks all members to read:
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=18085.msg602098#msg602098
We have set up a thread to discuss the situation. That discussion thread is linked from the post directly below the message from Dave. Follow the above link and you'll get to both.
Thanks.
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lol @ Gonzo!
I was going to post Dave's message in here, but since it was already in the Daily Sheet, I thought it would be redundant...
thanks Gonz!
H.
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OMG----LOVE the new TDS banner! Gnash---you did an awesome job! Thanks to all for all the hard work you put into TDS----I really look forward to reading it everyday!
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Re: The Not-So-Secret Prejudices of AMPAS
As we are approaching the one year anniversary of BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN and yet another Awards season I cannot help but feel the anger pop up again. I know let it go is the common thread as I read posts on these boards regarding what this years Oscars will bring. Nothing will make me care about the proceedings; quite frankly this years 'snub' killed the excitement for me now and forever. I will chose other options next February as the 'Hollywood Elite' has their party. The Academy Awards died for me this year. Good riddance.
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Thanks again for a fine daily sheet. Gnash's banner rocks!!!
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Yeah, man! Jimmy Gnash's talents are unlimited!
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thanks guys for the comments on the banner! i had fun making it, but it was a team effort between the whole crew! i wanted the FNIT scene! ;) ;) ;) and jimbo the rodeo clown ::) ;) ;D but seriously, it was a rewarding experience. i'd brought it up with ellen about a week before she announced "retiring" as editor, so it's nice to see it come to fruition with the new team.
brad1963 --- the academy awards died for me years ago... join the club! :D when i found out that members weren't required to see the movies up for consideration, i really lost interest. to me it's a show-off party and promo machine... whatEVs.
my friend's dad is a producer and voter and said it this way... "you don't really think they're going to watch EVERY movie that's nominated, do you?" she went on to tell me how she and her sister would sometimes vote when "dad" was too busy, was out of town, or didn't care. so.. there you go. she said he votes for who they WANT to win, not who they think is best. it's all about money if you ask me! it's very organized in that manner...
oh i'm sure some voters are sincere, but when even a few are dishonest, it ruins the whole affair. ...and they make such a big deal about how they carefully choose academy members too. SHOOOO.
now, if brokeback had won best picture.... i'd still be saying this! but it didn't, and that did not surprise me one bit. before the awards i remember talking to auntie and telling her about this, and she encouraged me to post my thoughts -- but i couldn't bear to rain on everybody's parade as the excitement and positive feelings were so high.
no matter, we know that it's a great film in our hearts!
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Don't know if this is the place to post this, but there is a new release of DVD's for Brokeback Mountain due out on January 23, 2007. Its a 2 DVD "collector's edition".
Go here: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/002-0661299-5388815?url=search-alias%3Ddvd&field-keywords=brokeback+mountain&Go.x=8&Go.y=11
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Don't know if this is the place to post this, but there is a new release of DVD's for Brokeback Mountain due out on January 23, 2007. Its a 2 DVD "collector's edition".
Go here: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/002-0661299-5388815?url=search-alias%3Ddvd&field-keywords=brokeback+mountain&Go.x=8&Go.y=11
Thanks Red,
We have run some pieces regarding this subject. I think the original links were to the Universal Studios site. As the time draws near I am sure that we can run more pieces encouraging people to check it out.
Gonzo
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I have never waited more than five minutes to vote! No wonder so many people are using absentee ballots these days.
It's also one of the ways the vote can be manipulated: Make people in poor or progressive neighborhoods wait longer than the rich and greedy.
I live in a neighborhood that votes progressive, and our wait is always long - two hours is not unusual at all. I'll bet the folks in the suburbs don't have to wait that long. >:(
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...and they make such a big deal about how they carefully choose academy members too. SHOOOO.
Yeah, SOOOO carefully. lmao...
Michelle Williams has been nominated for an Independent Spirit Award in the category of Best Female Lead for her performance in Land of Plenty...
Let's see, Michelle was not invited to be a member of ampas this year. But Amy Adams was. Michelle does more films and gets nominated for awards the following year. What is Amy Adams doing? Who saw Junebug?
Another idiocy from ampas.
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Michelle Williams has been nominated for an Independent Spirit Award in the category of Best Female Lead for her performance in Land of Plenty...
Let's see, Michelle was not invited to be a member of ampas this year. But Amy Adams was. Michelle does more films and gets nominated for awards the following year. What is Amy Adams doing? Who saw Junebug?
Another idiocy from ampas.
Yep, that's why they're the Acadummy.
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From TDS today:
"...gay is the new black." Sean Griffin, SMU.
That explains the acadummy's reasoning lately!
They're behind the times. They aren't up to the
"gay is the new black" yet. They're still at the
"black is the new Jewish" stage.
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From TDS today:
"...gay is the new black." Sean Griffin, SMU.
That explains the acadummy's reasoning lately!
They're behind the times. They aren't up to the
"gay is the new black" yet. They're still at the
"black is the new Jewish" stage.
Bingo, Lyle!! ;D ;D ;D
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A bit OT re TDS but--we saw AP speak last night and guess which work she herself is most proud of writing???
Accordion Crimes
And ON topic--the Christmas thread is a hoot. love it!
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To the Daily Sheet--
Below is a link to an article that says that Heath and Michele are getting married soon:
http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news?id=25371
Is the right place to post an item like this? If it's not, please tell me where to post them. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
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To the Daily Sheet--
Below is a link to an article that says that Heath and Michele are getting married soon:
http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news?id=25371
Is the right place to post an item like this? If it's not, please tell me where to post them. Thanks, and keep up the good work!
Hi there!
We are always appreciative of links to relevant and interesting stories. The best way to pass them on is either via PM to either kmich or elle_ann, or by email to either kathy@davecullen.com or elle@davecullen.com.
And btw, if you check today's Daily Sheet, you'll see a reference to this particular story ... It's been mushrooming all over the internet for the past few days, based on nothing but a single questionable sighting - but so many of our members passed the info on to us that I felt we had to give it some sort of a nod!! ;D
Thanks, Jer!
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I just love Daniel Craig. He is so comfortable in his own skin and doesn't give a damn what everybody thinks.
RE: A Naked, Gay James Bond?
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I just love Daniel Craig. He is so comfortable in his own skin and doesn't give a damn what everybody thinks.
RE: A Naked, Gay James Bond?
Oh, sure, you just want to see Daniel Craig naked!! (Me too!!) ;) ;)
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I just love Daniel Craig. He is so comfortable in his own skin and doesn't give a damn what everybody thinks.
RE: A Naked, Gay James Bond?
Oh, sure, you just want to see Daniel Craig naked!! (Me too!!) ;) ;)
I have been a fan of Daniel Craig for a long time. Ever seen "The Mother"?
Yes, he ain't bad lookin' either. He has a good additude about everything.
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A Naked, Gay James Bond?
Daniel Craig is apparently urging movie bosses to revolutionize the James Bond franchise by including a gay scene involving the superspy in the follow-up to Casino Royale.
Be still my heart! LOL!
If you do not know, Daniel Craig was nominated for an Independent Spirit Award for his performance in Infamous, where he plays a
killer involved with Truman Capote, whom he kisses full on the mouth in the film.
Since the acadummy will undoubtedly completely ignore this picture, please keep an eye out for it on dvd, I think it's terrific and ten times better than last years dry as dirt Capote.
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Has anyone seen Daniel Craig in Road to Perdition? He does an excellent job as a really nasty, weasel-ly bad guy.
He was also great in Sylvia. He played Ted Hughes to Gwyneth Paltrow's Sylvia Plath.
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Has anyone seen Daniel Craig in Road to Perdition? He does an excellent job as a really nasty, weasel-ly bad guy.
He was also great in Sylvia. He played Ted Hughes to Gwyneth Paltrow's Sylvia Plath.
LOL!!! So....Kathy....he does a good job as a weasel-ly bad guy AND he was good at Ted Hughes? What a coincidence....
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LOL!!! So....Kathy....he does a good job as a weasel-ly bad guy AND he was good at Ted Hughes? What a coincidence....
HA!! Yeah, I guess they're one in the same, huh? ;)
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Nellie!, Nice profile. I didn't know you loved to draw!
Nice to see your face again...
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Oh and the controversy surrounding our gay opposition leader André Boisclair was not about an ad,it was a so called 'humor' piece put together by a duo of inane 'humorists' for a Much Music like TV station.
It's unfortunate, because he always touted that his being gay was secondary and wished people would stop referring to him as such.
And now he accepts to participate in this stupid,unoriginal piece of crap.
We're all wondering what he was thinking.
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RE: the Canadian political piece
It may have been a gaffe but I loved reading about and the accompanying pic. LOL.
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To quote my Childhood Hero:
VIVE LA QUEBEC LIIIIIBRE!!!
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To quote my Childhood Hero:
VIVE LE QUEBEC LIIIIIBRE!!!
Yeah B_1, we may be 'libre' to get married, but before Quebec is politically 'libre' I suspect De Gaule has all the time in the world to come back to life, grow old again, say his famous phrase and die once more... ;D
Maybe our young and handsome gay leader will find a way to make it happen. But I won't hold my breath....
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I AGREE.
lol
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Oh and the controversy surrounding our gay opposition leader André Boisclair was not about an ad,it was a so called 'humor' piece put together by a duo of inane 'humorists' for a Much Music like TV station.
It's unfortunate, because he always touted that his being gay was secondary and wished people would stop referring to him as such.
And now he accepts to participate in this stupid,unoriginal piece of crap.
We're all wondering what he was thinking.
Thanks for the clarification, john john. I read a few different articles on the controversy and some called it an ad and some called it a sketch, I think. The whole thing just seemed weird. ::)
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Michael
Your Fallen Warriors post reduced me to tears when I first spotted it. Reading it again today in the DS, my reaction is no different. You have focused our eyes exactly where they should be - away from statistics and treatment protocols and policies and rhetoric - and onto the living, breathing, loving, laughing, crying and oh-so-real people who have suffered and died from this disease.
Thank you and bless you for this tribute.
Elle
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Michael, I agree wholeheartedly with Elle. What a sad, beautiful tribute. Thank you, darling. :-*
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In their own lovely ways, many of these fallen friends were like Jack and Ennis.
Like Michael, we will never forget them. Their shirts hang in our hearts.
They are the real wind across Brokeback Mountain.
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Such a beautiful tribute, MichaelFsf (& TDS, for running it).
It was like a war zone, you described it perfectly, one where we had no weapons & no allies.
When you said you had to stop at 25, but there were 100s more....broke my heart.
All the fallen are loved still & not forgotten.
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Elle, Jackie, Larry and Melby - thanks so much for your comments. I was a little surprised to see the post in the Daily Sheet today - I didn't know it had been selected!
As you can imagine, it took a while (and several kleenex) to write that. I miss and remember them all. Though being here has helped a lot and I no longer feel like I will live and die alone I must admit that there is a void that their passing has left that will probably never be filled.
Thanks so much for your messages, and thank you to the people who have sent me personal messages as well. It helps.
Michael
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Oh Micheal, I've lived through this in the eighties.
What scared me the most was that I'd just come out, and seeing people dying around me pushed me back in the closet for a long while terrified that I'd end up dying of this mysterious and cruel disease. I am to this day still so preoccupied by this that dating feels like walking in a minefield.
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RE: Forum Members Attend Candy Screening in L.A.
I wish I had known there was going to be a group getting together for this. My apartment is down the street from Sunset 5 and I would have gone also. I saw "Candy" already on a Qantas flight from New Zealand last summer.
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Candy is showing here in DENVER if you can believe it! Begins next week!
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Heath and Michelle not getting married, huh? I wonder if this will put an end to The Daly Sheet's shameful foray into gossip peddling? I'd like to think so but something tells me I'll be disappointed.
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I thought TDS's handling of the marriage rumor -- stating as such that it clearly seems to be a rumor -- fairly inventive approach which both acknowledged the story while also dismissing it. Made me chuckle when other reports of said story did not...
Monica
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Two comments on TDS stories.
Cold Case--
I did not see that episode mentioned, but will look out for a rerun of it.
Cold Case did a gay episode last year--a storyline about the early
eighties when aids was being discovered and the fear surrounding it.
"BangBroek"--
What struck me most baout this item was that the characters start
their journey from the age of 16! Can you imagine an American show or film etc. where the boys are teenagers?
What got me all riled up about the MPAA (film ratings board) and have never thought them worth their salt again was this:
I was at the aforementioned Sunset 5 theatres and a preview came on with the usual green "Film Preview Rated for All Audiences" disclaimer. Then someone's "head" appears on the screen and it's subsequently whacked off the person's body by a baseball bat and people begin playing soccer with it. This jarred me, being a person of sound mind! The trailer was for a comedy film and I can't recall the title, but something like "And Now for Something Comepletely Different", but I'm not sure that was it.
The point is, following that trailer the ominous "RED" background comes up with the MPAA disclaimer that the "Film Preview Rated R for restricted Audiences". And what was it? A trailer for (I'm sorry the titles are not coming to me this morning-I'll edit them in if I think of them)....
Anyway, the film is about a high school boy who falls for the school jock and finds out the jock is gay as well. The film itself is rated R. There is no bad language in it. There are no sex scenes--it's just merely the fact that the boys are in high school and they are gay. And apparently that is enough to even have the TRAILER for the film rated R. And after just having seen an "okay for all audiences head whacked off someone's body", this really pissed me off and I've thought the whole ratings board was a piece of hooey ever since.
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Regarding the "Homosexuality in the Arab World", as a strong supporter of Israel I just wanted to point out two very important things regardiing official Israeli governmental and legal policies regarding gay people. First is the fact that openly gay people, both men and women are allowed to serve in the Israeli army. No "Dont ask dont tell" policy here-you can serve being out and proud. Second, the Israeli court system recently recognized gay marriages performed outside of Israel as being legal in the state of Israel. Gay couples married abroad are considered legally married if they come to live in Israel. Of course we are talking only about civil marriage and religious marriage is a whole different affair, but gay couples would still have all the legal rights of heterosexual couples. Compared to its arab neighbors,Israel is the most gay friendly country in the Middle East. I realize that this is not a forum about Middle Eastern politics but just felt I should point these things out to those gay people who jump to criticize Israel for its "human rights abuses". Your rights as an openly gay individual in most arab countries would be virtually non existent.
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I realize that this is not a forum about Middle Eastern politics but just felt I should point these things out to those gay people who jump to criticize Israel for its "human rights abuses". Your rights as an openly gay individual in most arab countries would be virtually non existent.
Gay people criticize Israel for human rights abuses? Did someone do that here? Or what do you mean by human rights abuses, do you mean like the Israeli demolition of Palestinian homes in Gaza or the West Bank? or?
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I think it would be worth loking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_laws_of_the_world we should be aware and informing people the the death penalty for being homosexual or commtting homosexual act exists in several countries around the world. e.g.
Mauritania
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Many others impose floggings or hard labour in prison. Food for thought I think.
Nax
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Who criticised Isreal for it's antigay <??> stance? I would keep my criticism of the Isreali state for Ariel Sharon's former behaviour as PM, which was an abomination, not the tolerant gay policies of the state.
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elle........great report on the AFI Awards! It was also fun waiting for the blow-by-blow account from kazinoz and Ministering Angel on Planet Heath.
Marcia........very nice TDS today!
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Who criticised Isreal for it's antigay <??> stance? I would keep my criticism of the Isreali state for Ariel Sharon's former behaviour as PM, which was an abomination, not the tolerant gay policies of the state.
My comments yesterday were strictly informational ,and I was not referring to anybody on this forum when I mentioned gay people who criticize Israel for its human rights abuse. My intent was to point out that although the situation in the Middle East is often portrayed in strictly black and white terms where one side is always right and the other side is always wrong, the reality is actually shades of grey. On the particular issue of gay rights, Israel has nothing to be ashamed about.
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I think it would be worth loking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_laws_of_the_world we should be aware and informing people the the death penalty for being homosexual or commtting homosexual act exists in several countries around the world. e.g.
Mauritania
Iran
Saudi Arabia
Nax,
I work for a Homeland Security contractor and for the first year of my employment, my work involved looking at immigrant files all day including those of people applying for asylum. Some of the stories were beyond horrifying, and although tribal and ethnic differences were the most common context of human rights abuses, gay people seemed to be the group with the fewest options in terms of where to go. In all too many cultures, they're "The One Great Exception" to any concern whatsoever about human rights. That first year was what really radicalized me in that respect.
Middle Eastern countries other than Israel, some South American countries and African countries are the worst offenders when it comes to human rights in general and gay rights in particular - gay people seem to be the proverbial canary in the mine. Mauritania is one of the countries where chattel slavery is still legal, with treatment of slaves that makes the Old South in the US look like a paradise in comparison. Ironically, a consistent pattern with both nation-states and ethnic groups is that the more homophobic they are, the higher the death rates from AIDS.
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Hot damn!
Gonna cast John Beene and Adrian in my remake of Brokeback Mountain. First, send 'em off to talk things over with Jake and Heath. Practice some kissin' scenes...
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Only our Sparky could have run into what was possibly the only female exhibitionist within 500 miles. There are str8 guys who would have killed for that chance (well, maybe not with that particular exhibitionist, but then again, I'm sure there are some str8 guys she would have turned on).
Oh, and Sparky, that "I'm innocent" thing you're trying for? Not buying it for a second.
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Oh, and Sparky, that "I'm innocent" thing you're trying for? Not buying it for a second.
In that case specifically, I was totally innocent.
My innocence in any respect always being a noteworthy occurence.
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yikes what a picture.
i take terrible pictures, i look older then god in that one and i dont in real life.
I look fat too.
roflmaoooo
who said men weren't vain? I take awful pictures!!!!!!!!!
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yikes what a picture.
i take terrible pictures, i look older then god in that one and i dont in real life.
I look fat too.
roflmaoooo
who said men weren't vain? I take awful pictures!!!!!!!!!
^^^^^
It's hell to be famous. If you ever meet Jake you can share lamentations about your experiences with paparazzi.
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yikes what a picture.
i take terrible pictures, i look older then god in that one and i dont in real life.
I look fat too.
roflmaoooo
who said men weren't vain? I take awful pictures!!!!!!!!!
Not to worry...we were all droolin' over John F... Beene.
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thats the point y'all should be droolin over me!!!
lol
lol
lol
JB is the sweetest guy you would ever meet
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thats the point y'all should be droolin over me!!!
lol
lol
lol
JB is the sweetest guy you would ever meet
I briefly come out of seclusion to find all of this kindness and flattery.... I'm blushing! Thanks everyone! Oh and Oregondoggie if you can contrive some way to get Adrian and I together... well , I'd be ever so grateful! :D I think Adrian is sooooper hot and he knows it! ;)
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2Fnol%2Fshared%2Fspl%2Fhi%2Fpop_ups%2F06%2Fentertainment_enl_1165493711%2Fimg%2F1.jpg&hash=f7ff8f3040002c910e5c4d0ea7c75f93ece913a9)
Actor Heath Ledger (centre) receives a warm welcome from Kath and Kim actress Magda Szubanski (left) and pop singer Dannii Minogue (right) as he arrives at the AFI (Australian Film Institute) Awards in Melbourne.
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thats the point y'all should be droolin over me!!!
lol
lol
lol
JB is the sweetest guy you would ever meet
I briefly come out of seclusion to find all of this kindness and flattery.... I'm blushing! Thanks everyone! Oh and Oregondoggie if you can contrive some way to get Adrian and I together... well , I'd be ever so grateful! :D I think Adrian is sooooper hot and he knows it! ;)
What are you goin' a do when Adrian wakes you up mumbling about Jake? That doctor would always be on call to Gyllenhaal!
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2Fnol%2Fshared%2Fspl%2Fhi%2Fpop_ups%2F06%2Fentertainment_enl_1165493711%2Fimg%2F1.jpg&hash=f7ff8f3040002c910e5c4d0ea7c75f93ece913a9)
Actor Heath Ledger (centre) receives a warm welcome from Kath and Kim actress Magda Szubanski (left) and pop singer Dannii Minogue (right) as he arrives at the AFI (Australian Film Institute) Awards in Melbourne.
Bet he's thinking of Jake's lips!
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Actor Heath Ledger (centre) receives a warm welcome from Kath and Kim actress Magda Szubanski (left) and pop singer Dannii Minogue (right) as he arrives at the AFI (Australian Film Institute) Awards in Melbourne.
lol i bet dannii wants to put the needle on it :D :D
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I briefly come out of seclusion to find all of this kindness and flattery.... I'm blushing! Thanks everyone!
Well Beenie, I'm glad you're alright...!! Since you didn't respond to my last PM and email, I was beginning to think something dreadful had happened to you..!
Zad
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Bet he's thinking of Jake's lips!
He did say that the "pash rash" Magda is sporting wasn't nearly as bad as the one he got from kissing Jake!! LOL! ;D
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There is a str8 porn movie called Bareback Mountain from what i hear, specialising in 2 cowboys working in tandem upon a cute lil shepherdess.
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RoyAndRonnie, great profile in the TDS!
And thanks for making my "Retrospective Survey" the thread of the day!
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Okay, that is most definitely a BBM Christmas tree. The binoculars and the sheep clinched it for me. Lydia, can you find out who the decorator was? He or she would probably enjoy knowing someone got the subtle message.
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Let me second that. There is NO WAY that tree could be an accident. As I was proofing today's DS I kept thinking "Too many coincidences. The decorator is probably some gay guy in love with the movie." Everything was there, the dog, the sheep, the creel case, everything. This person was probably doing it as an "inside joke" and now, thanks to KittyHawk, we all get to enjoy it.
Gonzo
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Agree with you guys, hunnert percent. ;)
I told KittyHawk the same thing--it's somebody's inside joke. It was the binoculars and the fake fire with the coffeepot that clinched it for me. I just loved it.
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and I 4th it. When it turned up in the Christmas thread we were delighted by it, this is certainly worthy of TDS!!!
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Yes! Love the Brokeback Mountain Christmas Tree!
I was hoping to see a BBM themed Christmas tree, but that
one's probably the best, knowing the price of Christmas ornaments!
Thank you, Kittyhawk, for getting your camera and sharing it with all
of us!
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Bah! Humbuggery, said Aguirre.
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I'm up there with "Bah Humbuggery" BUT I loved the BBM tree ... which I also think was carefully planned and very well done!
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The tree was definitely a BBM tribute tree - Kittyhawk should sneak in there & put a miniature copy of the Variety Ad on it!
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Lyle, I just wanted to say that I love your photcap series in today's TDS. I thought it was so beautiful when backtobrokeback submitted it. It must have taken you a long time to put it together. Truly a labor of love, I'm guessing.
Thank you. :-*
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The tree was definitely a BBM tribute tree - Kittyhawk should sneak in there & put a miniature copy of the Variety Ad on it!
I had thought perhaps a miniature copy of our Beyond Brokeback cover! ;D
The Dreamgirls/Dreamboys piece this morning caught me offguard. I haven't been teary-eyed over our boys in quite a while but when I listened and then read the lyrics, it got to me! Beautifully done, Mooska!
- KH
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Lyle's Dream caption is awesome. He is one of the masters in the photocaption thread. I'm so glad he posts there.! :)
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I can't begin my post without first acknowledging Jason's kind comments about me--thank you, Jason.
I wanted to say thanks for the James Schamus interview and link to the entire article. AfterElton is one of the ONLY places that has dealt with these issues and very well written by Michael Jensen to boot.
It's interesting that besides them, the gay press has pretty much remained silent about it, I still don't get it.
A couple comments about the interview:
They wanted to put in some deleted scenes. There was a discussion about deleted scenes, but quite frankly, as Ang said, “The reason I deleted them was because I wanted to delete them. So why would I put them in the DVD?”
The conversation implies there would be no "director's cut" of BBM, which I had never expected, but Schamus did not indicate why the "extra scene" footage could not or would not be available for a dvd edition. I understand they'd want to leave the movie as is, but not why the material wouldn't be included as extras.
I really think there is a very powerful aspect to the things you don't notice. You don't notice when the guy at the water cooler pauses and thinks, “I better not tell this joke because I realize that a lot of people have seen this movie and seem to like it, and maybe it's not safe for me to push it here.”
A post right after the oscars, from member sherryfair, was indicative of what "ampas" did in this regard, and not the film itself. She wrote that: "the day after the oscars I walked into my office and one of the guys there came up to me and noticed my mood. He knew how much I loved BBM and how much I had tried to get the guys in the office to see it, much to my ultimate futility. I was hoping an oscar win would tell them it was okay to see it. He said, 'You really didn't think your faggot movie was going to win, did you?' I walked into my cubicle thinking that the academy had given him the permission to say that."
Also, in the interview, Schamus and Jensen discussed the comments notoriously made by Curtis and Borgnine.
You guys (AfterElton)probably noticed, but nobody else noticed there was no mainstream press pick-up on those comments.
Maybe not "after" Curtis said what he said, but Tony Curtis's comments were first made in an interview on Fox News Channel, pretty mainstream, if you ask me.
...for what it's worth.
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Also, in the interview, Schamus and Jensen discussed the comments notoriously made by Curtis and Borgnine.
You guys (AfterElton)probably noticed, but nobody else noticed there was no mainstream press pick-up on those comments.
Maybe not "after" Curtis said what he said, but Tony Curtis's comments were first made in an interview on Fox News Channel, pretty mainstream, if you ask me.
...for what it's worth.
My thoughts too.
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Yeah. They wanted to put in some deleted scenes. There was a discussion about deleted scenes, but quite frankly, as Ang said, "The reason I deleted them was because I wanted to delete them. So why would I put them in the DVD?"
Good for Ang!
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AfterElton.com: What can you tell me about the director's cut of Brokeback Mountain?
James Schamus: It's not even really a director's cut. . The changes really are very minuscule. They're going to package in some . featurettes about the music, the reception of the film. What you saw [in the theaters] was the director's cut. It's what Ang wanted.
AE: That's good to hear.
JS: Yeah. They wanted to put in some deleted scenes. There was a discussion about deleted scenes, but quite frankly, as Ang said, "The reason I deleted them was because I wanted to delete them. So why would I put them in the DVD?" [Laughs.] That's a pretty good point there, Ang!
Well, yes and no. There's a big difference between putting them BACK IN the film (as was done with deleted scenes in Lord of the Rings, mainly to good effect), and putting the deleted scenes on a separate DVD as part of the package.
They may be bad scenes, but they are part of Brokeback, as are the costumes and locations and heck, the director's commentary (not even mentioned). Fans would like to see them, critics would like to see them, and film historians would like to see them, regardless of how rejected they were by Ang.
I hope he reconsiders.
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JS: Yeah. They wanted to put in some deleted scenes. There was a discussion about deleted scenes, but quite frankly, as Ang said, "The reason I deleted them was because I wanted to delete them. So why would I put them in the DVD?" [Laughs.] That's a pretty good point there, Ang!
Backtobrokeback, I agree.
Ang made a brilliant film, none of us have any argument with that. But this comment bothered me quite a bit... and I realize that JS may have been quoting him out of context too, we don't really know what else was said at that time.... and his version, his Director's Cut may well be the best and most perfect version we will ever see ... but imho, this comment shows a disconnect with the reality of what fans want in a Special Edition. Fans today are far more sophisticated than in yesteryear - we like to know WHY the director made the choices he did, and we want him to show us and tell us, share his thoughts and processes with us, engage in a dialogue as it were - using deleted scenes, outtakes, commentary etc.
Ang seems to have removed himself from that dialogue. Of course he has the right to do so - he doesn't need to win us over, he already has us in the palm of his filmmaking hand! But that doesn't mean we have to like it... :(
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For more JBG Birthday tributes, check out:
http://gyllenhaal.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi?board=birthday and
http://gyllenhaal.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi?board=publicwishes
Logins are not required for either site! ;D
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I'm putting this out there in the hopes that the right person will see this and take action. The additional takes of Jake and Heath in the FNIT and SNIT would bring a pretty penny if they were available today. If anyone has access to that additional footage and can squirrel it away, they will be worth a fortune in the future. I'm just sayin'.
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The new site map is fantastic!!! Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!
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The administration has been working extremely hard to solve the slow down issue that has been plaguing the forum for some months now. It has been determined that to solve this we will have to change the host company of the forum. The new host server has now been contracted with by Dave as of today.
We are proceeding rapidly now and hope to have the conversion complete within a few weeks at the latest and hopefully much sooner. We will keep you (members) apprised. Please look for announcements in the Newsbox. Some changes will likely come up suddenly--that is the nature of computer conversions, so it is impossible to know before we test whether something will go flawlessly and take two hours, or uncover thorny issues that will take days. The testing process is being started. This will not affect the forum at this point.
So taking this into consideration, we don't want to give you timeframes that are unrealistic. As soon as we finish a stage, we'll proceed immediately to the next, and the exact changeover will likely come on very short notice to you (members). We will post this changeover time in the Newsbox as well as in the individual threads, and will give you as much lead time as we can manage. This will enable us to end the slowdown ASAP.
Thank you for your patience.
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Just noticed that the Colorado BBQ in May on the Daily Sheet is described as a Forum event, whereas on the thread they take pains to say it is not a Forum event, but rather for many Forums. Perhaps the notice should be relocated to the other side of the page?
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Just noticed that the Colorado BBQ in May on the Daily Sheet is described as a Forum event, whereas on the thread they take pains to say it is not a Forum event, but rather for many Forums. Perhaps the notice should be relocated to the other side of the page?
We consulted with the organizers about that and they are okay with it where it is. The forum side is for events that are largely forum oriented, but doesn't have to be exclusively forum related. The other events are for things that have no connection to the forum e.g. rodeos, book signings, lectures, etc.
It's no big deal and if the organizers want us to move it we certainly can.
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Just noticed that the Colorado BBQ in May on the Daily Sheet is described as a Forum event, whereas on the thread they take pains to say it is not a Forum event, but rather for many Forums. Perhaps the notice should be relocated to the other side of the page?
We consulted with the organizers about that and they are okay with it where it is. The forum side is for events that are largely forum oriented, but doesn't have to be exclusively forum related. The other events are for things that have no connection to the forum e.g. rodeos, book signings, lectures, etc.
It's no big deal and if the organizers want us to move it we certainly can.
That's fine with me, thanks Gonzo!
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Ang made a brilliant film, none of us have any argument with that. But this comment bothered me quite a bit... and I realize that JS may have been quoting him out of context too, we don't really know what else was said at that time.... and his version, his Director's Cut may well be the best and most perfect version we will ever see ... but imho, this comment shows a disconnect with the reality of what fans want in a Special Edition
I've got to say I found that comment rather troubling too, for two reasons.
One was that it was a bit disingenuous - whether they call it a Director's Cut or Quaker Oats, the producing studio is generally the entity that "owns" a film, not the director.
And the other is that it seemed to suggest a kind of contempt for fans of this movie; i.e., "we don't need to bother putting in anything new - those rubes will buy the new edition no matter what." There doesn't seem to have been a whole lot of thought put into "what are we going to give people who already bought the DVD a reason to buy another one?"
I have two copies of the DVD, wide-screen and full-screen versions. And I'm certainly not going to fork over more $$ for so little in return. IMO a lot of fans will feel that way.
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Well, yes and no. There's a big difference between putting them BACK IN the film (as was done with deleted scenes in Lord of the Rings, mainly to good effect), and putting the deleted scenes on a separate DVD as part of the package.
They may be bad scenes, but they are part of Brokeback, as are the costumes and locations and heck, the director's commentary (not even mentioned). Fans would like to see them, critics would like to see them, and film historians would like to see them, regardless of how rejected they were by Ang.
There are movies out there that benefitted, or would benefit, by having deleted scenes put back in; Dances With Wolves is the one that comes to mind immediately. In other cases, what was done is what should have been done with the first DVD edition of BBM: put the deleted scenes in a separate special feature section where people can look at them.
When they come out with a Special Edition that has the deleted scenes and (!!) outtakes from the two tent scenes, I'll camp out at the store the night before they go on sale. :D
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Marge is there any difference between full screen and wide screen? i have widescreen.
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Well, yes and no. There's a big difference between putting them BACK IN the film (as was done with deleted scenes in Lord of the Rings, mainly to good effect), and putting the deleted scenes on a separate DVD as part of the package.
They may be bad scenes, but they are part of Brokeback, as are the costumes and locations and heck, the director's commentary (not even mentioned). Fans would like to see them, critics would like to see them, and film historians would like to see them, regardless of how rejected they were by Ang.
Agreed - for some films I've enjoyed hearing from the directory WHY they removed the scene - that can be a really interesting peak into their vision for the film and how it evolved
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Marge is there any difference between full screen and wide screen? i have widescreen.
Full screen is wider horizontally and narrower vertically. Full screen is closer to square. Generally speaking, wide screen is what you get at a theatre. Full screen mimics the dimensions of your TV better. Usually, to get full screen you have to lop off varying sections of the outer ends of the wide screen version.
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That is what i thought. Which is why i didn't buy full screen.
What point is there?
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Does this 'Wide Screen' make my TV look fat?
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lmao
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lmao
You must get in practice. The answer to that question is always 'no'.
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Not really.
I get asked does this make me look fat to the point where I once said yes honey you look like one of Mothra's eggsacks in that dress. She looked stunned and the eyes popped on every woman in hearing. And i said stop asking me that silly question you didn't look fat 5 minutes ago in the other dress and you dont look fat now. you're a beautiful woman, look in the mirror. And they all smiled so angelicly...
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Not really.
I get asked does this make me look fat to the point where I once said yes honey you look like one of Mothra's eggsacks in that dress. She looked stunned and the eyes popped on every woman in hearing. And i said stop asking me that silly question you didn't look fat 5 minutes ago in the other dress and you dont look fat now. you're a beautiful woman, look in the mirror. And they all smiled so angelicly...
Damn...you're good!
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I have moments
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I have moments
Sure wish there was a 3-D version!
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Happy Holidays, folks!
I'd like to thank you all for your fine work. And that new banner looks great.
I have a request. There is, somewhere, a picture of the BBM cast signing a blow-up of the Forum ad after the Oscars scandal. I've used the Search feature for this, and it's not really helping.
Where do you guys suggest I look? If you're not able to respond right away, don't worry. It's the holidays and we're all busy.
Thanks again, and Happy Holidays!
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That story about GLBT youth in the streets sure put a damper on my Xmas mood.
F**k it's revolting how people can be so heartless.
It's beyond my comprehension.
I guess our movie still has a lot of work to do...
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Happy Holidays, folks!
I'd like to thank you all for your fine work. And that new banner looks great.
I have a request. There is, somewhere, a picture of the BBM cast signing a blow-up of the Forum ad after the Oscars scandal. I've used the Search feature for this, and it's not really helping.
Where do you guys suggest I look? If you're not able to respond right away, don't worry. It's the holidays and we're all busy.
Thanks again, and Happy Holidays!
Maybe try the Memorabilia thread, Jer. It's right here: http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=10907.0
Other than that, I have no idea where it would be. I don't know that I've ever seen such a picture.
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Happy Holidays, folks!
I'd like to thank you all for your fine work. And that new banner looks great.
I have a request. There is, somewhere, a picture of the BBM cast signing a blow-up of the Forum ad after the Oscars scandal. I've used the Search feature for this, and it's not really helping.
Where do you guys suggest I look? If you're not able to respond right away, don't worry. It's the holidays and we're all busy.
Thanks again, and Happy Holidays!
Maybe try the Memorabilia thread, Jer. It's right here: http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=10907.0
Other than that, I have no idea where it would be. I don't know that I've ever seen such a picture.
You might want to ask the PhotoCappers, they seem to know where all the pics are.
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Marge is there any difference between full screen and wide screen? i have widescreen.
Full screen is wider horizontally and narrower vertically. Full screen is closer to square. Generally speaking, wide screen is what you get at a theatre. Full screen mimics the dimensions of your TV better. Usually, to get full screen you have to lop off varying sections of the outer ends of the wide screen version.
Gonzo, I know what you are saying here, the conventional wisdom -- but there are some who say that in the case of Brokeback Mountain, there is a bit more "vertical" in the full screen version, so in FNIT (for example) more is visible "below." Maybe Marge Innavera can comment some more on this, or -- actually I did a Daily Sheet on this one time, based on a very detailed post by -- I think -- rosewood, who said the full screen version of BBM is worth owning. And watching.
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*damned former editors, think they know everything*
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I'm buying full screen Tellyouwhat.
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there are some who say that in the case of Brokeback Mountain, there is a bit more "vertical" in the full screen version, so in FNIT (for example) more is visible "below." Maybe Marge Innavera can comment some more on this, or -- actually I did a Daily Sheet on this one time, based on a very detailed post by -- I think -- rosewood, who said the full screen version of BBM is worth owning. And watching.
I own both a wide screen and full screen copy and for our TV I much prefer the full screen, but that seems to depend on the size of your TV. Our screen measures 17x22 inches (43x56 cm) and the full screen definitely works better for that size. Wide screen seems to add little if any quality, has a smaller viewing window and cuts off a little on the top and bottom. For larger screens, the vertical distortion will get more noticeable, so it's an individual thing.
Of course, some of us fanatical Brokies still want to have both versions!
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Thanks to the Daily Sheet Staff for bringing the 2006 Oscar poster to our attention. I think it is very touching - and fitting that a line from Our Favorite Movie be included. It is a very subtle acknowlegement of the importance of this film. We all know it was hands-down the best film of 2005.
Happy Holidays everyone!
Jay
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I followed the link to Variety to read the entire list of movie quotes on the poster. Remarkably enough, some years had even two or three quotes included. In 2005 there is only our one BBM quote! Nothing from Crash. Imagine that!!! ;D
You all are doing SUCH a great job with TDS. I look forward to it each morning.
- KittyHawk
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Yes, the Oscar poster's nice.
But I still cannot applaud anything ampas related until I've heard someone from there acknowledge homophobia was a cause of last spring's bp outcome.
I think they know how p.o.'d many of us are and have done subtle things to appease those of us that are--things like hiring Ellen Degeneres to be next year's host. And the quote on the ampas poster from BBM! Second on the top left--that's the place where anyone who wants to read all the quotes starts to read, or looks at. (Look! Everyone! Your movie's on the poster, right there! At the top!) Co-incidence or am I just too cynical about the subject?
Link:
http://theenvelope.latimes.com/awards/oscars/env-pondgantis-18dec18,0,3865671.story?page=1&coll=env-home-headlines
In part of a recent interview with ampas president Sid Ganis from the L.A. Times (link above), the interviewer questions him about people not wanting to see Brokeback Mountain last year. At first, as usual, he tries to naively shuffle it off by saying "Really? People didn't want to watch it? Even with their screeners they were sent?" As though the interviewer had nothing to back that up with. So the interviewer mentions two members who were quoted live and in print. Ganis's reply says he knows very well what the interviewer is talking about:
Ganis: Oh, right, Tony Curtis and Ernest Borgnine. Yeah. That was weird. I'd say, on the record, that's weird and they shouldn't have voted. Period. I'm surprised at them for thinking that way. They're artists. Why wouldn't they, as artists, be curious about material that's been lauded by their fellow artists?
Forum member LSky94 correctly observes:
Seems like he still needs to "play dumb" regarding the BBM snub.
And forum member daninprov notes:
"Weird"? I think he means "homophobic."
So, until ampas actually acknowledges this, which is all I can seek from that organization because the decision will never be reversed, I regard any inclusion of BBM or G&L persons in regards to their awards with great suspicion. And when academy officials like Mr. Ganis "play dumb" about it instead of truth-telling, well, then people who are able to should call them on it. Seems the gay press won't do it, with the exception of AfterElton, so I keep bringing it up.
I learned once that to deal with hurt from someone, an individual OR an organization, you should let them know. Well, from reading the Awards Aftermath thread all year, many people were hurt by this because the result was from homophobia, both circumstantial AND documented. The fact that the press will not address it, even the gay press, or ampas, is starting to sting more than ampas's continual downplaying or brushing it aside as false. (You notice when ever the homophobia issue is brought up, academy spokesman always side-step it to the issue of not having seen the film, so they shouldn't have voted. Not the REASON for not seeing/voting for it.) So, I will keep bringing this aspect up until it becomes acknowledged.
In the meantime, to me the most relevant movie quote on ampas's new oscar poster is right above oscar's head: "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."
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I don't really care what the Academy does. It's the glitz and glamour award. I don't know anybody under the age of 40 who even watches it anymore. More and more people look to the Globes and BAFTA.
Oscar is screwing himself and that's too bad. It's an award declining in importance, bit by bit, year by year. Ten years ago nobody in the US gave a damned about the Golden Globes. now they are 'The Thing'.
They added a quote. So what.
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I learned once that to deal with hurt from someone, an individual OR an organization, you should let them know. Well, from reading the Awards Aftermath thread all year, many people were hurt by this because the result was from homophobia, both circumstantial AND documented. The fact that the press will not address it, even the gay press, or ampas, is starting to sting more than ampas's continual downplaying or brushing it aside as false. (You notice when ever the homophobia issue is brought up, academy spokesman always side-step it to the issue of not having seen the film, so they shouldn't have voted. Not the REASON for not seeing/voting for it.) So, I will keep bringing this aspect up until it becomes acknowledged.
I thoroughly agree with this.
I'm glad the Daily Sheet ran the poster, as it's part of BBM history, as is the Oscar farce of 2006. But I haven't seen any real concern expressed by AMPAS, nor heard of any attempt to address the issue of homophobia other than denial and window-dressing. Nor have they attempted to correct this appalling situation of members being allowed to vote in categories like Best Film when they have refused to watch one of the entries.
The inclusion of quotes from Brokeback -- and the omission of anything from Crash, for that matter -- indicates that someone in a decision-making position knows perfectly well they made an indefensible choice. But if there's no direct acknowledgement or changes, I'd say that homophobic leopard hasn't changed a single spot.
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Thanks, folks.
But where are the PhotoCappers you mentioned? How do I get there?
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Here you go, jer09, a link to page one of the Photo Caps thread. Enjoy, but have tissues ready...most are very funny, but a few are quite poignant and will bring tears to your eyes. Hugs, and Happy Holidays!
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=323.0
For a condensed version, the following is a link to Photo Caps Greatest Hits!
http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=17834.new;boardseen#new
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It's Christmas morning, the DS really helped in forgetting my headache...
That recipe sorta made me aware of it all over again.
The BBM video made me cry which made me see somewhat clearly again.
I may have a Borderline Personality Disorder, I'm now thinking of moving my head.
I may have to read the sheet again to try and see what I've missed, due to slow and painfull eyelid use.
I'll try to thank you later.
JJ
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Merry Christmas to all those who work on TDS for us!
The Christmas addition was great!
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Didnt read the Crown Royal cookie recipe the first time, but made a mental note to return to it because we have a bottle of that whiskey that my father brought us from duty-free when visiting 10 years ago. I use it once in a while it for cooking -- thats all its good for -- and thought, at last a way to get rid of the rest of it. Think I will just toss the rest of the bottle out the window!
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Merry Christmas guys!
Thank you especially Cyn for giving us a most beautiful story.
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I was sitting there this morning, surrounded by presents, a cat on my lap, and my wonderful partner of 16 years across from me, a roaring fire, Christmas carols, and then... my eyes fell on the Brokeback Mountain calendar and the image of Ennis and Jack. :'( I wished all I had to them, for them, that they might have a happy moment to just be together.
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CYN, what a magnificent story, so tender and true...or, at least, we pray it was. :-*
BrokenOkie, I hope to use that recipe next Christmas. :D Thanks in advance! ;)
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BrokenOkie, I hope to use that recipe next Christmas. :D Thanks in advance! ;)
Why wait? Lots of holidays between now and then for practice! ;)
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Um, I hope that life-sized Jake doll also comes with a pair of light blue board trunks.
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Um, I hope that life-sized Jake doll also comes with a pair of light blue board trunks.
LOL
Sold separately!
No wonder I didn't get much response to the original post!
That's one reason why the photocap went immediately obscure -- :-\ :D ;D
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg60%2Ftrixie75%2FMisc%2Fnewyear4.gif&hash=947e767ad8292445169371fb2fbaa6466e2db90b)
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Thank you for the great profile of Ruth. I truly enjoy seeing everyone's profiles spotlighted.
And thank you for giving a spotlight to Conny's post!
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You're welcome! :)
I really love the member profiles. They're my favorite TDS thing to do. Well, that and pick the photocap of the day. ;) There're so many interesting and talented here on the forum.
Happy New Year, everyone!
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That Ruth sure is talented!
Thanks for the sheet it's always a blast :)
Happy New Year to all of you.
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Hey, I'm onlyt the 4th person to read the Daily Sheet this year, how cool lololol!!!!!!!!!!
HAPPY NEW YEAR FROM ONE NERVOUS about-to-be- GROOM!!
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Happy New Year, Jack! And about those nerves? NORMAL!!!! :D :D But we'll be thinking of you and Katrina! and we expect to see LOADS of lovely pictures!!!
Elle
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Happy New Year, Jack! And about those nerves? NORMAL!!!! :D :D But we'll be thinking of you and Katrina! and we expect to see LOADS of lovely pictures!!!
Elle
I'll second this one Jack... Hope your trip to New York was uneventful... other than being horribly delayed of course.
Our best to you two!
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HAPPY NEW YEAR FROM ONE NERVOUS about-to-be- GROOM!!
Happy New Year, Jack, to you and Katrina, and all the good wishes in the world for both of you. :-* :-*
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Love the New Years issue! had me some good laughs, plus a tear or two of joy just from reading the Auld Lang Syne translation--now I don't have to mumble the lyrics anymore! ;D
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LOL at Brokeback Towers, and Krakatoa erupting, and "Don't mention the shirts"!
Love Basil Fawlty! (And TDS)
"He's from Barcelona."
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Hi Daily Sheet Personnel!
I just wanted to say thank you for the article today about Tom Richmond, the MAD Magazine artist, and his experiences on drawing caricatures of Heath and Jake. I find that just fascinating...especially since I think the same thing, Jake is so much harder to draw than Heath, and I totally thought it would be the other way around since Jake's face seems custom-made for caricature. Anyway it was really interesting to read Tom's blog, a real pro cartoonist, and hear him talk about why he thinks that might be the case. Man, I love stuff like that. Where do you find it?! (Please keep finding it! :))
ruth
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Hi Daily Sheet Personnel!
I just wanted to say thank you for the article today about Tom Richmond, the MAD Magazine artist, and his experiences on drawing caricatures of Heath and Jake. I find that just fascinating...especially since I think the same thing, Jake is so much harder to draw than Heath, and I totally thought it would be the other way around since Jake's face seems custom-made for caricature. Anyway it was really interesting to read Tom's blog, a real pro cartoonist, and hear him talk about why he thinks that might be the case. Man, I love stuff like that. Where do you find it?! (Please keep finding it! :))
ruth
That was Marcia, our wonderful Assistant Editor! She manages to come up with the most amazing things - she did the Tom in Finland piece too, btw!! :D
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JS: Yeah. They wanted to put in some deleted scenes. There was a discussion about deleted scenes, but quite frankly, as Ang said, "The reason I deleted them was because I wanted to delete them. So why would I put them in the DVD?" [Laughs.] That's a pretty good point there, Ang!
Backtobrokeback, I agree.
Ang made a brilliant film, none of us have any argument with that. But this comment bothered me quite a bit... and I realize that JS may have been quoting him out of context too, we don't really know what else was said at that time.... and his version, his Director's Cut may well be the best and most perfect version we will ever see ... but imho, this comment shows a disconnect with the reality of what fans want in a Special Edition. Fans today are far more sophisticated than in yesteryear - we like to know WHY the director made the choices he did, and we want him to show us and tell us, share his thoughts and processes with us, engage in a dialogue as it were - using deleted scenes, outtakes, commentary etc.
Ang seems to have removed himself from that dialogue. Of course he has the right to do so - he doesn't need to win us over, he already has us in the palm of his filmmaking hand! But that doesn't mean we have to like it... :(
I watched Ride with the Devil a few days ago. No deleted scenes or commentary on that DVD either. What about his other films? Is this standard practice for Ang?
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Yeah. They wanted to put in some deleted scenes. There was a discussion about deleted scenes, but quite frankly, as Ang said, "The reason I deleted them was because I wanted to delete them. So why would I put them in the DVD?"
Good for Ang!
I take a quite different view. That quote seems to sum up a certain contempt for the viewers, an attitude more typical of critics. If "I did this because I wanted to and because I can" is a typical Ang Lee approach it could come back to bite him hard eventually; and that would be very unfortunate for such a great director.
There also seems to be an underlying assumption that "we don't have to really add anything significant to a 2-disc set - those rubes will buy it anyway." Well, I'm not buying it, and I live in rural Missouri right smack in the middle of cattle-raising country. And if that doesn't make me a rube I don't know what would. ::)
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I just wanted to say thank you for the article today about Tom Richmond, the MAD Magazine artist, and his experiences on drawing caricatures of Heath and Jake. I find that just fascinating...especially since I think the same thing, Jake is so much harder to draw than Heath, and I totally thought it would be the other way around since Jake's face seems custom-made for caricature. Anyway it was really interesting to read Tom's blog, a real pro cartoonist, and hear him talk about why he thinks that might be the case.
That was such a hoot, finding the MAD parody! I'm sure some readers were offended by it, but MAD really did give Brokeback essentially the same treatment it's given other movies over the years, and I thought the caricatures were very well done.
I was surprised to read that Jake was a harder subject for a caricature artist than Heath - would have thought the mouth and the eyes would be a perfect focal point.
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That was such a hoot, finding the MAD parody! I'm sure some readers were offended by it, but MAD really did give Brokeback essentially the same treatment it's given other movies over the years, and I thought the caricatures were very well done.
I think they might have had even a bigger challenge because by the time the BBM issue was out, the movie had been parodied so many times elsewhere...how to find fresh material? I was really quite pleased with the job they did, having been a MAD fan since my youth I really, really hoped they would lampoon BBM.
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I was surprised to read that Jake was a harder subject for a caricature artist than Heath - would have thought the mouth and the eyes would be a perfect focal point.
Maybe because Jake's features are already a little exaggerated? And I mean that in the best possible way--the man is amazingly gorgeous. :P But perhaps the large head and eyes the size of silver dollars and perfect cupid's bow lips make it harder to caricature? (Not that I've pondered Jake's features at all ::)) I don't know--I'm not an artist by an stretch of the imagination. Just a guess.
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And I loved the photocaps, magicmountain!! I laughed hysterically when I first read them. :D Must have taken a lot of time to find all those old pics.
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I was surprised to read that Jake was a harder subject for a caricature artist than Heath - would have thought the mouth and the eyes would be a perfect focal point.
Maybe because Jake's features are already a little exaggerated? And I mean that in the best possible way--the man is amazingly gorgeous. :P But perhaps the large head and eyes the size of silver dollars and perfect cupid's bow lips make it harder to caricature? (Not that I've pondered Jake's features at all ::)) I don't know--I'm not an artist by an stretch of the imagination. Just a guess.
Jake does look like that animated cowboy in Toy Story. Huge eyes, etc. What was his name?
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Jake does look like that animated cowboy in Toy Story. Huge eyes, etc. What was his name?
That would be Woody. Voiced by Tom Hanks. I've seen that movie more times that I care to count, lol.
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Thx to michaelflanagansf for the great column of "firsts." In addition to all the great fun I have had on the forum, the trips to San Antonio and Los Angeles and Wyoming, (and all the forum participants I met in those places) -- I have read lots of books I would never have read otherwise, due to participation in the forum book clubs. So double thanks to michaelflanagan for moderating in our book club threads.
Furthermore, the illumination that comes from reading with THIS group has been awesome (especially when we read Annie Proulx.)
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I was surprised to read that Jake was a harder subject for a caricature artist than Heath - would have thought the mouth and the eyes would be a perfect focal point.
Maybe because Jake's features are already a little exaggerated? And I mean that in the best possible way--the man is amazingly gorgeous. :P But perhaps the large head and eyes the size of silver dollars and perfect cupid's bow lips make it harder to caricature? (Not that I've pondered Jake's features at all ::)) I don't know--I'm not an artist by an stretch of the imagination. Just a guess.
I tend to think you are right - his head and his eyes are so huge - and IMHO just add to his dramatic good looks but how much bigger can you make them before they go beyond caricature and just look weird
I did like this one though:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi72.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi181%2Fbbmmary%2Frideemjake.jpg&hash=7301248e18feca344bb78685cc171657c3d1693b)
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Mary --
That is a great find! I love it.
I have seen Tom Cruise caricatured -- in the comic strip "Bizarro" -- memorable because the artist did not use his face at all, just a 3/4 view from the back, it was more the posture -- and I can't remember the caption, something about being in love with himself or the mirror or the camera -- in any case (that was right after the Nicole break-up, before the Katie craziness) that caricature convinced me it is mostly a matter of finding the right line or silhouette.
Not suggesting we compare crazy Tom with our beloved Jake -- except for their obvious mutual gorgeousness.
I wish I could get a hold of that MAD magazine parody!
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Dave, thanks so much for the info on your friend, Bill Kelly. I, for one, LOVED Blast from the Past, and really look forward to both of his new films. I appreciate the heads up.
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Thx to michaelflanagansf for the great column of "firsts." In addition to all the great fun I have had on the forum, the trips to San Antonio and Los Angeles and Wyoming, (and all the forum participants I met in those places) -- I have read lots of books I would never have read otherwise, due to participation in the forum book clubs. So double thanks to michaelflanagan for moderating in our book club threads.
Furthermore, the illumination that comes from reading with THIS group has been awesome (especially when we read Annie Proulx.)
Why thanks! It was my pleasure (in both cases)!
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Cyn - beautiful, beautiful poem. And as usual - you kill me with your writing. Thank you!!!
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Happy New Year to everyone at TDS!
I don't know if this is the proper place to report this, but The Daily Sheet's link to the Jake G. appearance on Saturday Night Live doesn't seem to be working right. (Of course, it's likely to be operator error on my part. When I click on the link, I get a message like, "The topic or board appears to be either missing or off limits to you"
Huh?
Anybody have any ideas? I'd love to know anything about the appearance, especially since Jake will be in New York, and Heath lives in Brooklyn, soooo....is it too much to hope that we'll have a min-BBM reunion? Maybe even a sketch together? I'm fairly swooning at the prospect.
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Good catch
There was some squirrley ness with the SNL thread - it was deleted and recreated. The link in the January 8th issue should point to:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=19058.0
Monica
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In response to the vote mentioned re Most attractive man listing Robbie Williams as second - excuse me what happened to taste?
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In response to the vote mentioned re Most attractive man listing Robbie Williams as second - excuse me what happened to taste?
Don't know but I just voted - and you can vote more than once! ;D
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Dear Group,
First of all, is this the appropriate place to post this inquiry?
Can anyone tell me about a 2 DVD set of Brokeback Mountain. A friend just asked me about it. It was news to me.
Mikey
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Hi Mikey
There IS a 2 Disc DVD set being released by Universal on Jan 23rd. They are calling it a Special Edition - however, if you or your friend already own the original DVD, you won't find much that is new on the 2 Disc set. For details of the release in a recent press release, go here. (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070110/law077.html?.v=82)
For forum thoughts on the release, go here. (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=17541.0)
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Thanks for gnash's photocap in todays TDS. I had forgotten about that one and it made me laugh out loud once again!
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Love the David Denby article today. I want to comment about his Arclight raves, though. My rant... I'm not a particular fan of this place for the following reasons.
1.) I'm 6'5". The theatre seats at the Arclight have curved shoulders which dig into my back if I sit up straight. If I don't sit up and scrunch down, I get a backache and/or headache. The Chinese 6 have the same seats. I hate them. Who wants to pay $11-$16 dollars (or $25 in the case of Dreamgirls) to get a headache?
2.) Oh, yeah. Did I say movie tickets cost $11-$16, or more?
3.) The restaurant and bar items they mention are priced like concession items. Too much! And for the price, it is relatively mediocre.
4.) A lot of people like that they have reserved seats. You can get your tickets and come back later, or in advance and arrive nearer the showtime. But I've gotten reserved seats a couple times where I've had to sit next to complete jerks and you can't move. So...
5.) The restaurant serves delicious coffee. Yes, but most theatres in L.A. will let you bring coffee into the theatres. I know, I do it all the time.
6.) Denby says "Before the movie, people hang out and have a drink or leaf through a hot new novel or a movie-star biography." True, but I have never thought the Arclight was a very comfortable atmosphere for this. Around awards season, they usually also have costume displays from films. Sometimes props. I did see Brokeback Mountain there and they had costumes from all of the four main cast members there. (They were the only ones encased in plexiglass, by the way!) I saw the original shirts that sold for $100,000+ and Lureen's (now Melissa's) red cowgirl outfit etc.
I'm sure there are many who like this place, but I have not found it to be always a friendly, satisfactory movie-going experience there. In L.A., for multiplex theatres, I much prefer The Grove or the new remodeled Century City AMC.
...for what it's worth.
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Thanks, Monica!
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I second that--thanks Monica!
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I'd like to send up a prayer of thanks for Gonzo, and all his hard work on TDS. Sorry to see you step down from the job, honey, though I know you leave it in capable hands.
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Thanks Gonzo for all the fine work on the sheet!
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Gonzo, thanks for all the work!!!
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Just a line to say thank you for all the love, good wishes and amazing positive vibes that have been reaching me from the forum which has been home to me and lovelysmom over the past few months. She is still unable to speak and even show response, though there is a marginal improvement. Will keep you all informed.
Hugs to you all
Lovelyamazing
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Thinking of you, sweetheart, and a big hug from me to your sweet momma next time you see her, OK?
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Thanks, Gonzo, for all your hard work! We really appreciate it!
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I hope everything turns ot well, lovely.
Jack
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Just a line to say thank you for all the love, good wishes and amazing positive vibes that have been reaching me from the forum which has been home to me and lovelysmom over the past few months. She is still unable to speak and even show response, though there is a marginal improvement. Will keep you all informed.
Hugs to you all
Hugs back to you (((( )))))) and God bless.
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Here's some new info (finally!) on Stephen Gyllenhaal's appearance in Boulder, Colorado:
Stephen Gyllenhaal, poet, film & television director will show clips of his films and read poems from his book Claptrap in the ATLAS Theater on the CU campus.
Feb. 21: Screening of film clips, 7 pm
Feb. 22: Poetry reading, 7 p.m.
Further Details TBA
Contact Barbara Sorensen at 303-823-5149 or woc@indra.com for more information.
Check this website for further details:
http://www.mmminc.org/ Click on Events
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From TDS today:
As a side note, the YouTube clip featuring Jake's SNL sensational tribute to his gay fan base drew over 40,000 hits within 48 hours before being taken down by the networks.
And that wasn't the only clip!
The clip that I uploaded drew over 60,000 hits in 48 hours.
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From TDS today:
As a side note, the YouTube clip featuring Jake's SNL sensational tribute to his gay fan base drew over 40,000 hits within 48 hours before being taken down by the networks.
And that wasn't the only clip!
The clip that I uploaded drew over 60,000 hits in 48 hours.
That's amazing!!! :o :o Is your's still there?
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No. I pulled my clip yesterday before they got to me.
I couldn't figure out why my clip was getting so many hits, but then jim.grr clued me in to this. Rachel Sklar wrote a little article on The Huffington Post and linked my clip:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/01/15/jake-gyllenhaal-belts-out_n_38682.html
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Here's some new info (finally!) on Stephen Gyllenhaal's appearance in Boulder, Colorado:
Stephen Gyllenhaal, poet, film & television director will show clips of his films and read poems from his book Claptrap in the ATLAS Theater on the CU campus.
Feb. 21: Screening of film clips, 7 pm
Feb. 22: Poetry reading, 7 p.m.
Further Details TBA
Contact Barbara Sorensen at 303-823-5149 or woc@indra.com for more information.
Check this website for further details:
http://www.mmminc.org/ Click on Events
Wow, I'm sorry I missed this. I will have to come here more often!! FRont-Ranger
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Hope you're planning to attend!?
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I'll be there.
I'm home in Denver now, too.
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I always enjoy seeing Brokeback Mountain items that are for sale like those on todays Daily Sheet.
But, and I am just asking, does anyone find some of those items a bit on the homophobic side, and by that I mean dealing with humor the likes of which all the late night comedians heaped upon Brokeback all last spring? I'm referring to those items listed for the cowboy in you or the slogan about When we get to the cabin, we'll enter in the back door or whatever that was?
Just pondering...
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I found quite a few of those designs to be a little homophobic.
I'm pretty sure the Cafepress site is owned by one of our members. They probably didn't notice it.
I can also see a lot of blatant copyright violations, so I don't think that Cafepress store will be around for long. Or maybe they'll just have to remove those products? I see one was removed already, and it was a screen capture from the movie.
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Well, some people know this, and some don't, but there is still a button at the top of every forum page for the Ultimate Brokeback Store that carries BBM specific merchandise, and our forum benefits. It is through cafepress too.
http://www.cafepress.com/bbmforum
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Below is a link to a story about same-sex unions in Wyoming, if TDS is interested in passing it on:
http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2007/01/21/news/wyoming/30-bill.txt
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Lyle & BayCityJohn--
I think you're right, some of these items are homophobic. The late night comedians especially were cruel to BBM, at the expense of gay people. Equal rights for all should not be a source of insults and derision, especially when we have the glaring example of Mathew Shepard to see where this hate and intolerance leads.
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Re: polls, I'm reading Gore Vidal's memoir Palimpsest.
In April 1993, he writes:
'I have just been studying a poll that pretends to investigate the sex lives of Americans. It is wonderfully preposterous (average woman has two sexual partners - in her life), but it will be useful when the dictatorship is in place and the aberrant woman who chooses a third partner can be punished. Apparently, only 2 percent of the male population has ever had a homosexual experience. Forty-five years ago, it was 37 percent: Are Dr Kinsey's figures really off by 35 percent? Are there now entirely different "preferences" (to use a loaded political word)? Due to the fear of AIDS or to the general unattractiveness of the American male? - now the fattest on earth. Or did the Pentagon fix the poll in order to keep that now-insignificant minority "gays" - the weirdly inappropriate word used to describe a nonexistent category - from serving in the military without harassment or concealment or disgrace?
'Interestingly, all the questioners of the men were women; as a result, over 30 percent of those approached refused to participate, while the rest were obliged to lie. After all, to tell a strange woman that you had no intention of ever fucking anyone of her sex could be construed as harassment on a titanic scale, not to mention posing a grave threat to the baby supply, punishable by death in free society.
'Last year, in a book called The Day America Told the Truth, a megapoll discovered that 91 percent of our population admits to lying regularly. Of course if 91 percent were lying to the megapollsters about their propensity for lying, one is back to the oldest of recorded jokes. "All Cretans are liars," said a Cretan. True or false?'
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I found quite a few of those designs to be a little homophobic.
I'm pretty sure the Cafepress site is owned by one of our members. They probably didn't notice it.
I can also see a lot of blatant copyright violations, so I don't think that Cafepress store will be around for long. Or maybe they'll just have to remove those products? I see one was removed already, and it was a screen capture from the movie.
I wouldn't call them homophobic...but insofar as double entendres go, some of those slogans take the cake.
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I found quite a few of those designs to be a little homophobic.
I'm pretty sure the Cafepress site is owned by one of our members. They probably didn't notice it.
I can also see a lot of blatant copyright violations, so I don't think that Cafepress store will be around for long. Or maybe they'll just have to remove those products? I see one was removed already, and it was a screen capture from the movie.
The "Cowboy Corner" site gives sources for the logos they use. The round "wish I knew how to quit you" logo was provided by "PrideInArt:Gay Lesbian & Gay Pride apparel gifts", and the one with the beer bottles by Queer Republic. The Cabin logo was from "Debbie's World" and the postcard from "Mercury44."
The beer bottle logo was the one I found a bit offensive; drunk jokes don't have quite the cachet they had in the Rat Pack's heyday. The "Never been there" tee shirt and the strange 10 Commandments one with the cowboy-hatted silhouettes did use the name of the film, but I'm not sure if that's a copyright violation.
The one that was removed was probably due to copyright issues, and that was the only product I found any actual images from the film. It would be interesting if anyone did try to sue over the phrase "wish I knew how to quit you" it would keep the whole US civil court system tied up for months, if not years.
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The items I saw that probably are copyright violations are the ones with the Willie Nelson song title.
I'm just waiting for a cease and desist order for some of my Youtube videos.
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Well, some people know this, and some don't, but there is still a button at the top of every forum page for the Ultimate Brokeback Store that carries BBM specific merchandise, and our forum benefits.
The logos and available items in the Brokeback Store were featured recently in a "Brokeback Christmas Shopping" feature. This was in the November 24th edition of the Daily Sheet. (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=18085.msg600508#msg600508)
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2 points for HBO
Brokeback Mountain
On Oscar Night:
Not Only In Bay City!
The HBO/Cinemax guide for February reveals that Cinemax is showing Brokeback Mountain on Oscar night at 5:30pm, which is just about the time the Awards are scheduled to begin in L.A.
Can we hope that someone out there at HBO / Cinemax is making a statement of support??
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TDS is always good but what an especially wonderful edition today!
Congratulations, best wishes, and love to Rob and Nick!
I'm so happy for you.
Plus the Oscar Night Program looks fantastic as does this particular photo captioning series by Lola.
As for the acronyms, Jim Bond has quite a few that he uses regularly. AJWS and AEWS are very common but he has others that keep me guessing!
-KittyHawk
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As for the acronyms, Jim Bond has quite a few that he uses regularly. AJWS and AEWS are very common but he has others that keep me guessing!
-KittyHawk
Being blonde .... and that means ??? Jack something and Ennis something ....
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nick and rob -- AsJackandEnnisWouldSay ---> happy anniversary, cowboys!!
one year anniversary is what.. paper? well, here's an origami (http://www.origami4you.com/daf.html) gift for you:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.origami4you.com%2Fimages%2Fpaperdaffodils.jpg&hash=366f5f19a7ead74b70b8006c5e8f94941f111573)
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:D ;)
Thanks.
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How wonderful!
Rob!!! Did you say YES?
This has to be the all time best daily sheet ever!!!
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Huge congratulations to everyone who decided to feature the love letter from Nick to Rob. What a lovely, wonderful story and what a tribute to what Brokeback Mountain and its creator(s) has given us all.
I would hazard a guess that those who brought this original love story to our attention - this gift from Annie Proulx to the world - would be gratified to know that their actions had created an environment in which such a story would be possible. What a tremendous legacy for these artists - and what a gift for these perfect-for-each-other lovers to share the sweetness of their story with the rest of us.
Happy anniversary, Rob and Nick, and a lifetime of the 'sweet life' Jack and Ennis never found.
CYN
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Nick, what a wonderful recount of your story! I am happy for you and Rob that this movie and the forum have brought you two together, my best wishes to you and Rob!
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How wonderful!
Rob!!! Did you say YES?
This has to be the all time best daily sheet ever!!!
I must know if he said YES!!! Does anyone know!! Maybe we have to wait for the next edition of TDS
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How wonderful!
Rob!!! Did you say YES?
This has to be the all time best daily sheet ever!!!
I must know if he said YES!!! Does anyone know!! Maybe we have to wait for the next edition of TDS
So this year he will leave his home and come to England to live with me. We have agreed to marry shortly after that. The 27th of January is our one year anniversary, and we are to be apart physically, but only physically.
I think that means he said yes. ..
This story was so beautiful.
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To those who want to know, go back and read the article again ... the answer's right there.....not far above the question. ;) :D
Gosh, I'm a melted puddle of gooey happiness for you two! So much love and so much happiness!! God bless you both richly in your life together!!
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To those who want to know, go back and read the article again ... the answer's right there.....not far above the question. ;) :D
Gosh, I'm a melted puddle of gooey happiness for you two! So much love and so much happiness!! God bless you both richly in your life together!!
I have to admit, the first time I read it, I thought it was a marriage proposal, then when I reread it a little more coherently I realized that it was a done deal. But in any case.. ISN'T IT JUST THE MOST ROMANTIC THING YOU HAVE EVER READ?? On the Daily Sheet I mean...
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I love a love story! Congratulations Nick and Rob. I'm happy for both of you! Your love story is the best example as to why we should be allowed the same marriage rights as straights. Just think of the thousands of Gay and Lesbian couples in this Country who are denied that basic human right! Anyway, Best of Luck to you both. :)
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Wasn't this just fantastic? Nick approached us with the idea and wrote the entire article. I simply had the privilege of running it.
Congratulations to you both. :-*
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CONGRATULATIONS
Nick and Rob....
on finding
Brokeback Mountain,
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this forum
&
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi44.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff5%2FDiDys%2Fclip%2520art%2Fflower%2520clip%2520art%2Fflower01.gif&hash=1169344329d053457670677df8a1a31a3b3dae99)
EACH OTHER
[/color](https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi44.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff5%2FDiDys%2Fclip%2520art%2Fflower%2520clip%2520art%2Fflower01.gif&hash=1169344329d053457670677df8a1a31a3b3dae99)
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well how about that, go nick and bob. i've been in a relationship for almost forty years, and after seeing brokeback mountain, i saw what a precious thing i had, and i knew to value it above small annoyances and disappointments. it shines for me, and i wish you forty years at least in the same light, kj
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typo: nick and rob. let's get it right, here...kj
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nick and rob -- AsJackandEnnisWouldSay ---> happy anniversary, cowboys!!
one year anniversary is what.. paper? well, here's an origami (http://www.origami4you.com/daf.html) gift for you:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.origami4you.com%2Fimages%2Fpaperdaffodils.jpg&hash=366f5f19a7ead74b70b8006c5e8f94941f111573)
Thank you Jimmy!!!
Thoughts of you at the BBQ...
Hugs,
Rob
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How wonderful!
Rob!!! Did you say YES?
This has to be the all time best daily sheet ever!!!
Should there be suspense here? Should I just break out the news so quickly?
Of course I said "YES!!!"
;D
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Nick and Rob---Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful story---I am all choked up here, and blinking back tears. Congratulations and happy trails through life to you both!
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi34.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd145%2Fcccccarol%2FWedding_Cake.jpg&hash=e4dd6e29a35f94e4790261552ce5f1f896758e47)
Congratulations!
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Huge congratulations to everyone who decided to feature the love letter from Nick to Rob. What a lovely, wonderful story and what a tribute to what Brokeback Mountain and its creator(s) has given us all.
I would hazard a guess that those who brought this original love story to our attention - this gift from Annie Proulx to the world - would be gratified to know that their actions had created an environment in which such a story would be possible. What a tremendous legacy for these artists - and what a gift for these perfect-for-each-other lovers to share the sweetness of their story with the rest of us.
Happy anniversary, Rob and Nick, and a lifetime of the 'sweet life' Jack and Ennis never found.
CYN
Thank you CYN... without Annie's imaginative writing that started the snowball that became the avalance called "Brokeback Mountain" none of this would've been possible. We have her to thank, as well as all the folks involved in the production of the movie that stirred and broke the hearts of millions of people worldwide.
Of course we must also thank Dave Cullen for putting this Forum up where all of us could meet, interact and become family!
My life has never, ever, had the substance it does now...
Rob
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Thank you CYN... without Annie's imaginative writing that started the snowball that became the avalance called "Brokeback Mountain" none of this would've been possible. We have her to thank, as well as all the folks involved in the production of the movie that stirred and broke the hearts of millions of people worldwide.
Of course we must also thank Dave Cullen for putting this Forum up where all of us could meet, interact and become family!
My life has never, ever, had the substance it does now...
Rob
Just make sure the two of you hold tight, and don't let life's silly little dust-ups interfere.
I'm one of those hopeless romantics who believes that what the two of you have comes along only rarely - only once in a lifetime, if at all. I know that, from my own experience, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that it is worth everything you have and everything you are. Even if fate conspires to take you away from each other much sooner than you'd wish, it is still worth it all. You can't measure love by using time as a yardstick; you can only measure it by the joy you bring to each other.
I hope your love will light your way through many wonderful years together, and that you continue to share your dreams while you also cultivate your friendship. Friends AND lovers - surely the best of all possible worlds.
Again, sincere congratulations.
CYN
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To the lovely TDS staff:
Thank you truly for featuring Nick's love letter to his beautiful Rob today...
What a gift...for them and to us all...
A love that will never grow old
Just beautiful, thank you.
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(((Boo & Yogi)))
;D :'( ;D :'( ;D
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CONGRATULATIONS ROB AND NICK!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I am so happy for the two of you. Happy Aniversary and best wishes to you both on your life together.
Fizzy
: )
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To those who want to know, go back and read the article again ... the answer's right there.....not far above the question. ;) :D
Gosh, I'm a melted puddle of gooey happiness for you two! So much love and so much happiness!! God bless you both richly in your life together!!
Me too! I'm here tearing up at work!
:-* :-* :-* to you both, guys!
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TO NICK & ROB: Congrats! Having met you at the bbq and seeing you in person, the news seems so much more personal and exciting to me! Thanks for sharing it!
Also--Full measure: Thanks for showing us what the other side of the coin can be as well!
well how about that, go nick and bob. i've been in a relationship for almost forty years, and after seeing brokeback mountain, i saw what a precious thing i had, and i knew to value it above small annoyances and disappointments. it shines for me, and i wish you forty years at least in the same light, kj
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Gosh, I'm a melted puddle of gooey happiness for you two! So much love and so much happiness!! God bless you both richly in your life together!!
Valentine's Day is coming up - hopefully we'll have some more news like this to print?
Congratulations, Rob and Nick - will we get to see any wedding photos? Please?
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Should there be suspense here? Should I just break out the news so quickly?
Of course I said "YES!!!"
;D
I'm so glad for you two, Rob&Nick! Congratulations and hugs!!!!!!! I'm also very lucky to have met the two of you together. :) What a beautiful story you wrote, Nick.
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Of course I said "YES!!!"
Dear Rob, dear Nick,
As you can notice from our comments, we are all delighted about you two being together.
And what a big step for you to go in another continent, Rob! This is also a proof of the depht of your commitment.
I wish to both of you mountains of happyness! All the best!
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"...And yes, today is only Friday. Tomorrow, however, we have something very special planned, so we have brought the featured profile forward by a day."
Wow...Nick & Rob's love story is very special indeed. Absolutely loved reading about it, thx TDS.
Rob & Nick, many congrats to you both for not settling for the status quo, for taking a chance on opening your hearts to let another in.
Enjoy living that sweet life always! All best wishes to you both!
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Dear Nick and Rob,I felt overwhelmed when I read your story.I wish you so much happiness and joy!What you've found is so incredibly special and it's totally fitting and right that you found it through this particular place.Jack and Ennis couldn't and didn't but you can and will.Here's to your sweet life together. ;D
Janie
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Rob and Nick, hearty congratulations! ;D ;D
Chuck and I wish you every joy and success (we're taking notes).
Hugs,
John
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Congratulations and best wishes to you Nick and Rob!
I look forward to the day when the US will be an option for you and other couples like you (joined by love, separated by a border)
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Nick and Rob,
Having met you several times and seeing you two together, it is a love so true.
I also cried when I read this beautiful love letter.
I know the future is wonderful and holds all there is for you two!
Thank you Nick and Rob for sharing yourselves and your love with us,
Thank you TDS staff for having it here for all of us to share.
Linda
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Is it possible to do a little story (or a Big story?!) about all of the marriages or relationships that have formed thanks to this fabulous forum? I know my own relationship has strengthened because of it. We could also write a little piece about how to keep the flame alive. I'm totally booked until end of February (writing a book for work) but after that I'd love to help with an article or interviews or whatever.
DeTina (duh tina)
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Here's some new info (finally!) on Stephen Gyllenhaal's appearance in Boulder, Colorado:
Stephen Gyllenhaal, poet, film & television director will show clips of his films and read poems from his book Claptrap in the ATLAS Theater on the CU campus.
Feb. 21: Screening of film clips, 7 pm
Feb. 22: Poetry reading, 7 p.m.
Further Details TBA
Contact Barbara Sorensen at 303-823-5149 or woc@indra.com for more information.
Check this website for further details:
http://www.mmminc.org/ Click on Events
Wow, I'm sorry I missed this. I will have to come here more often!! FRont-Ranger
It's on my calendar!!
Why am I not able to send PMs on this board???
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Thanks Everyone! :D
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Why am I not able to send PMs on this board???
Once you have made five posts (I think its five) then the PM facility is available to you. It should work now. ;)
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Is it possible to do a little story (or a Big story?!) about all of the marriages or relationships that have formed thanks to this fabulous forum? I know my own relationship has strengthened because of it. We could also write a little piece about how to keep the flame alive. I'm totally booked until end of February (writing a book for work) but after that I'd love to help with an article or interviews or whatever.
DeTina (duh tina)
This would be wonderful! We're always looking for stories for TDS. Send them to Elle, Marcia, or me and we'll be happy to see what we can do. :)
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Thank you all for the responses and PM's... my PM letter box is a bit full, I will respond to all soon. :)
It's been quite the weekend!
;D
Hugs,
Rob
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I just wanted to say that I am totally in love with the photo captioning entry on today's (Monday 1/29) Daily Sheet. I don't actually look at the DS very often, but the "He Said Yes" line caught my eye and I had to look. (More on that in a second!) Um, that picture/caption is just too funny for words. I was suddenly glad that my roommate wasn't in the room, because I started giggling hysterically and obnoxiously for a long time. :P
Now, to address the big news of the day: CONGRATULATIONS NICK AND ROB!!!!!!!!! I've never really spoken too much to either of you, but your relationship is so inspiring, and you've been kind enough to take us along with you every step of the way. I could not be more happy to wish you all the best, walking through the world together. Congratulations again!
Saena
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Nick and Rob - I too, am impressed and touched by your letters in TDS. What really comes through loud and clear is your pure love for each other. Your messages were not sappy and over the top but full of respect and admiration for each other. Honest and heartfelt! They were great to read.
I am really happy for you two and also happy for the rest of us because you both were so kind to share your story. Best wishes, guys.
Rick
PS - re: photo, which is Nick and which is Rob - both very handsome!
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Nick and Rob - I too, am impressed and touched by your letters in TDS. What really comes through loud and clear is your pure love for each other. Your messages were not sappy and over the top but full of respect and admiration for each other. Honest and heartfelt! They were great to read.
I am really happy for you two and also happy for the rest of us because you both were so kind to share your story. Best wishes, guys.
Rick
PS - re: photo, which is Nick and which is Rob - both very handsome!
Thank you, Rick. :-*
Nick's in the black shirt, I'm in the white... In my avatar, Nick's on your right, I'm on the left... and here:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi45.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff70%2FRobinpuyallup%2FP1100220.jpg&hash=db97f32900e561b304035f94f3dee812249c2588)
Nick's on the right, (again!), and I'm on the left! ;D
Rob
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:(
Not that photo again, darling ---ugh!
I know you like it, but, well, ugh
what about this one where we both look good
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe267%2Fnickjadegreen%2FNickRob%2FBBQ001-2.jpg&hash=49c7b63c482d7f2e8615f4fb2f72535b120ab52d)
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Gnash, I loved that PhotoCap :)
Thank you!!!
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Annie Proulx may list her 10 favorite books, but ours are BBM BBM BBM BBM BBM BBM BBM BBM BBM and...BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN !!
Seriously, there is a movement afoot over on the bettermost.net site to get Annie a NOBEL PRIZE IN LITERATURE. Not easy. Nominations need to come from academic and literary circles. Might be useful to have a thread on our site to discuss the matter.
The prize is awarded annually to an author from any country who has, in the words of Alfred Nobel, produced "the most outstanding work of an idealistic tendency". Folks like Toni Morrison (1993), Nadine Gordimer (1991), and Gunter Grass (1999) in recent years.
"Lynne" from bettermost.net has established a dedicated site on-line to discuss the issue: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nominate_annie/
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Now TDS is always great but I really liked today's more than usual! Great job team :)
The info about the deleted scenes is very juicy. It's also good to know that other folks appreciate this kind of information & as just as infatuated with BBM, even after all this time.
The 700 000th post: I thought it was a nice touch that it was about the reunion, one of the happiest & most enjoyable moments of the story. Of course, I had to go check it out & then ended up getting absorbed in the Reunion thread for awhile :D
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I loved the deleted scenes info too. I remember from yonks ago Ang talking about the scene at the end that was left out, the one the guy didn't want to disclose. Thing is I really can't remember what was in the scene. >:( I think it was the bit in the book when Jack's a boy and his Dad pees on him. Ang thought that it was too jarring and didn't fit in with the way he'd filmed the rest of it.
But then again I could be wrong, my brain is not the most reliable thing at the moment!
Thanks for the great info! :)
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Although the author indicates there may have been only two scenes filmed and left out, we know there's the hippie scene that was filmed, extended bar scene in the beginning, a scene with J&E in the truck before they go up to Brokeback etc. So there's a lot more than just two! There's also a lot of scenes in the screenplay drafts that were left out and at least a percentage of those were probably filmed.
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I had to chuckle at Mr. Tremblay's refusal to name the second deleted scene. He's apparently not aware how knowledgeable most BBM fans are (as Lyle's post demonstrates).
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Thanks so much for today's quote from Molly Ivins. No one could skewer "Shrub" like she could. She and her wit will be missed terribly.
- KittyHawk
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She was brilliant, wasn't she? It's a huge loss. :(
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Great profile of Ingmarnice! Especially enjoyed reading about the initial effect of BBM. Thanks for giving us Americans a chance.
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Brokeback Mountain collaborators Ang Lee and James Schamus will be partnering once again on another film for Focus Features. Schamus is rewriting a romantic comedy entitled A Little Game, that Lee will direct. The movie is an adaptation of a French play called A Little Game of Consequence. According to Variety, the movie, “centers on a happily engaged Brooklyn couple who decide to play an experiment on their friends; when a rumor goes around that they have broken up, they play along to find out what their pals really think of their coupling.”
I love it! I love the idea! It's perfect for Ang and James. I can't wait. ;D
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Great profile of Ingmarnice! Especially enjoyed reading about the initial effect of BBM. Thanks for giving us Americans a chance.
Wasn't it great? I really enjoyed it! ;D
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I had to chuckle at Mr. Tremblay's refusal to name the second deleted scene. He's apparently not aware how knowledgeable most BBM fans are (as Lyle's post demonstrates).
:D. yeah, if they want to be secretive about scenes that were filmed but not used, maybe they shouldn't have put extracts from them in the trailer! There are even two characters that appear in the trailer that aren't in the film at all.
Wonderful profile of Ingmarnicebbmt. :)
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Photocaps of the Day
Posted by trubrokeback
Gaydar and Nerdalert!
Brilliant Photocaps on the TDS trubrokeback. I'm still laughing my ass off!
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Thanks so much for today's quote from Molly Ivins. No one could skewer "Shrub" like she could. She and her wit will be missed terribly.
- KittyHawk
I second this - I will miss her a lot. Her wit and intelligence made her writing a delight to read
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Many thanks, tellyouwhat and Lola! :D
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Make Greenwich Village an historic district????
Like most new Yorkers, whether still living there or not, I always thought it WAS an historic district. In a town where people try to tear down and rebuild anything, nobody has touched the Village meaningfully in decades. Oh yes, formalise it, make it law, preserve NY's most vibrant area!
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.........I forgot to say that today's TDS was very very good--it ranks among the very best we have seen since TDS began.
Thanks for that!
Jack
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Merci, Ruby!
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I loved today's also! It was great! Thanks for putting it together. I'm sure this takes a lot of work.
DeTina
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Loved the sheet today, what am I saying, I love it everyday.
Thanks to all concerned for your generosity and talent.
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Thank you, guys!! :D :D
Your responses and encouragment are great to hear! Glad to know TDS is being enjoyed out there.... ;)
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Make Greenwich Village an historic district????
Like most new Yorkers, whether still living there or not, I always thought it WAS an historic district. In a town where people try to tear down and rebuild anything, nobody has touched the Village meaningfully in decades. Oh yes, formalise it, make it law, preserve NY's most vibrant area!
So much was lost in urban US neighborhoods in the name of "urban renewal" or "progress", especially in the 1960s and 1970s and there's still a lot of the 'tear down the historic theatre, we need a new McDonald's!" mentality. But historic preservation has come a long way, and by some miracle the tax credits that an official historic designation bring with them are still available, and the general pattern is that property values go up with historic district designation.
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Yeah i know. All you have to do is look at downtown Denver, as opposed to the LoDo area of downtown. Downtown is sterile and LoDo is jumpin, 7 nights a week.
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Elle, I just read TDS and am thrilled you highlighted the thread I made about roses. Thanks so much! It should do well with some exposure, there are a lot of good gardeners on DCF!
Even if you don't garden come look at the photographs-- there are a lot of unusual and old rose varieties highlighted!
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It'll be really interesting to see how that goes - the whole procreation thing is a major argument in the anti-gay marriage camp, and people point out in discussions all the time how untenable that is - plenty of people marry who either can't have children or don't want to - but this is the first time that I know of that someone has called that particular bluff in any serious way.
Hopefully, sooner or later someone will go too far and a Supreme Court decision will make all these state constitution DOMAs invalid. Much of the whining about the Supremes "overruling the will of the people" ignores the fact that Constitutional principles trump popular will. No state or municipality, for example, can vote to reinstate Jim Crow laws or rescind the rights of women to vote, no matter what the outcome of an election is. The issue of gay marriage is basically that of equal protection under the law and that initiative is facing that issue head-on.
Glad you enjoyed the issue!
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Monte, I'm not sure how the text of my reply replaced your post - but I'll find out what happened and see if we can restore it. I apologize for the snafu. ???
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Please note: this initiative has made it to Fox News ... and covered evenly ... I don't know of any 'major' news orgs that have bothered so far ...
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Monte, I'm not sure how the text of my reply replaced your post - but I'll find out what happened and see if we can restore it. I apologize for the snafu. ???
I wouldn't worry too much about it, hardly world-shattering, cheers chris
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It'll be really interesting to see how that goes - the whole procreation thing is a major argument in the anti-gay marriage camp, and people point out in discussions all the time how untenable that is - plenty of people marry who either can't have children or don't want to - but this is the first time that I know of that someone has called that particular bluff in any serious way.
Hopefully, sooner or later someone will go too far and a Supreme Court decision will make all these state constitution DOMAs invalid. Much of the whining about the Supremes "overruling the will of the people" ignores the fact that Constitutional principles trump popular will. No state or municipality, for example, can vote to reinstate Jim Crow laws or rescind the rights of women to vote, no matter what the outcome of an election is. The issue of gay marriage is basically that of equal protection under the law and that initiative is facing that issue head-on.
Glad you enjoyed the issue!
I have to admit I was confused to see British montezumae commenting in such detail about the American Supreme Court and Jim Crow laws. :D :D
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It'll be really interesting to see how that goes - the whole procreation thing is a major argument in the anti-gay marriage camp, and people point out in discussions all the time how untenable that is - plenty of people marry who either can't have children or don't want to - but this is the first time that I know of that someone has called that particular bluff in any serious way.
Hopefully, sooner or later someone will go too far and a Supreme Court decision will make all these state constitution DOMAs invalid. Much of the whining about the Supremes "overruling the will of the people" ignores the fact that Constitutional principles trump popular will. No state or municipality, for example, can vote to reinstate Jim Crow laws or rescind the rights of women to vote, no matter what the outcome of an election is. The issue of gay marriage is basically that of equal protection under the law and that initiative is facing that issue head-on.
Glad you enjoyed the issue!
I have to admit I was confused to see British montezumae commenting in such detail about the American Supreme Court and Jim Crow laws. :D :D
Quite so. But you guys are educating me slowly in all things stateside, a long overdue development. :) :)
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I wasn't---when I spent a year in the UK it was amazing to have British, australian, Irish people speak of the workings of, and the machinery of government in the US with such knowledge and detail. Most americans simply don't have this depth of knowledge about our own govt....which is why we are in the crappy position we are in, Ellen. But you know that, my oldest forum friend!
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I wasn't---when I spent a year in the UK it was amazing to have British, australian, Irish people speak of the workings of, and the machinery of government in the US with such knowledge and detail. Most americans simply don't have this depth of knowledge about our own govt....which is why we are in the crappy position we are in, Ellen. But you know that, my oldest forum friend!
:P :P :P >:( >:( :(
Yep. :'( :'(
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Somebody might want to take a look at the March PREMIERE magazine interview
of Mark Wahlberg in which he makes some very condescending, not to mention,
snarky, remarks about BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.
Wouldn't hurt to post a little something on The Daily Sheet for the edification
of all.
I'm especially intrigued by the fact that Wahlberg says he was given an opportunity
to read a first draft of the script, or at least, pages from that treatment and was
ACTUALLY RELIEVED when Ang Lee didn't call him back. (For a second
interview, I presume.) Seems that BROKEBACK is 'not his thing'.
I posted some comments on the General Discussion Thread for anyone who's
interested.
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Somebody might want to take a look at the March PREMIERE magazine interview of Mark Wahlberg in which he makes some very condescending, not to mention, snarky, remarks about BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.
Snarky Mark
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Like I said in the other post, I am going to reserve judgement until I hear exactly what Mark said.
Funny though I was just reading an article in Variety and it said:
The agents for Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal (both at CAA) took a substantial risk putting their actors into "Brokeback Mountain" but it paid off big time. Their challenge now is to re-establish both in more traditional macho roles, and the jury is still out on this objective.
I still thank alot of actors are afraid to be typecast!
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Thanks for the tip, Rosewood. We'll check it out.
<snip>
Funny though I was just reading an article in Variety and it said:
The agents for Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal (both at CAA) took a substantial risk putting their actors into "Brokeback Mountain" but it paid off big time. Their challenge now is to re-establish both in more traditional macho roles, and the jury is still out on this objective.
<snip>
And I don't get that statement from Variety. How were their roles in Brokeback not macho? And why do they need to be re-established in "traditional macho roles," whatever that means? Don't we have enough actors to play those parts? Why can't H and J just play whatever parts their hearts desire, without worrying about fulfilling some mythical "macho" quota?
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Thanks for the tip, Rosewood. We'll check it out.
<snip>
Funny though I was just reading an article in Variety and it said:
The agents for Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal (both at CAA) took a substantial risk putting their actors into "Brokeback Mountain" but it paid off big time. Their challenge now is to re-establish both in more traditional macho roles, and the jury is still out on this objective.
<snip>
And I don't get that statement from Variety. How were their roles in Brokeback not macho? And why do they need to be re-established in "traditional macho roles," whatever that means? Don't we have enough actors to play those parts? Why can't H and J just play whatever parts their hearts desire, without worrying about fulfilling some mythical "macho" quota?
Hear! Hear!!!
:)
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If it was not Mark Wahlberg's "Thing", then it wasn't his thing. He had and has a right not to want to play a gay part. Period.
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If it was not Mark Wahlberg's "Thing", then it wasn't his thing. He had and has a right not to want to play a gay part. Period.
I am glad to hear you say that. My husband does not have a homophobic bone in his body, but if he were an actor he could not have done that part. And if you can't do it and do it well, leave it to the people who can, like Heath and Jake.
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If it was not Mark Wahlberg's "Thing", then it wasn't his thing. He had and has a right not to want to play a gay part. Period.
I am glad to hear you say that. My husband does not have a homophobic bone in his body, but if he were an actor he could not have done that part. And if you can't do it and do it well, leave it to the people who can, like Heath and Jake.
No one could've done better than them!!!
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I guess Wahlberg playing a porn actor in 'Boogy Nights' was more up his alley.
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That's not the point. He has a right to NOT want to do gay scenes. a lot of non-homophobic males would flip kissing a guy, I don't blame them; they don't have to do it to prove anything at all, which sdeems to be the thrust of this argument. If you are gay and won't kiss a woman, good for you. AND IF YOU ARE STR8 AND WON'T KISS A GUY----WELL WHATS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER.
By the way he was good in Boogie Nights..
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That's not the point. He has a right to NOT want to do gay scenes. a lot of non-homophobic males would flip kissing a guy, I don't blame them; they don't have to do it to prove anything at all, which sdeems to be the thrust of this argument. If you are gay and won't kiss a woman, good for you. AND IF YOU ARE STR8 AND WON'T KISS A GUY----WELL WHATS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER.
By the way he was good in Boogie Nights..
He certainly was, Boogie Nights was one of my favourites. I didn't expect to like it as much as I did. And again, what can I say, I totally agree with you! ;)
I am still waiting to hear what Mark said that was so bad! :-\
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That's not the point. He has a right to NOT want to do gay scenes. a lot of non-homophobic males would flip kissing a guy, I don't blame them; they don't have to do it to prove anything at all, which sdeems to be the thrust of this argument. If you are gay and won't kiss a woman, good for you. AND IF YOU ARE STR8 AND WON'T KISS A GUY----WELL WHATS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER.
By the way he was good in Boogie Nights..
I agree. You're right. But this is an ACTING role. It's not real life. Of course actors are free to choose the roles they're most comfortable with.
I'm still bemused that acting at kissing a man is any worse than acting at strangling him.
Why would strangling a man any easier to do? Is being paid millions to kiss a man on a set that difficult?
Seems to me that actors have been doing horrible and barbaric things on screen for ever.
IMO There is a twisted sense of morality here.
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That's not the point. He has a right to NOT want to do gay scenes. a lot of non-homophobic males would flip kissing a guy, I don't blame them; they don't have to do it to prove anything at all, which sdeems to be the thrust of this argument. If you are gay and won't kiss a woman, good for you. AND IF YOU ARE STR8 AND WON'T KISS A GUY----WELL WHATS GOOD FOR THE GOOSE IS GOOD FOR THE GANDER.
By the way he was good in Boogie Nights..
I think the problem comes in that we are talking about actors here Jack. We aren't talking about Mark Wahlberg kissing a guy - we are talking about a character that Mark Wahlberg plays not kissing a guy. I think it's an important distinction. Actors are called upon to do things that they would not or could not do all the time. And just like Bill Nighy couldn't really grow tentacles on his chin and I don't think Anthony Hopkins would eat someone's brain I would think that it would be reasonable to think that actors can stretch themselves to play gay roles - and gay actors stretch themselves to play straight roles. Richard Burton, Rex Harrison, Shirley MacLaine, Coral Browne, Dirk Bogarde and Kevin Kline were all able to play gay - and of course Rock Hudson played straight for years.
Mark has played a killer (in 'The Big Hit'), and a thief (in 'The Italian Job') as well as a rock star and a porn star - and he's done a great job at most of these (plus being great in 'Three Kings'). What would be surprising to me about comments of this sort from Mark (I haven't read them yet, so I don't know what I think) is that I think that he is an actor with a large enough range that he could play pretty much whatever he wants. I would be a bit surprised if he finds himself able to stretch as an actor to play a thief and killer, but could not kiss a man. As you say, he should be able to do whatever he wants. But what it would prove to me is that he does not have the range as an actor that I thought he did. And that would disappoint me.
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But they did more than kiss, they showed real passion toward each other. I am not sure if every straight actor could do that. And maybe he didn't feel he could convey that, so maybe that was why he was relieved not to get a call back.
Tom Hanks said he felt very uncomfortable doing the kiss he did in Philadelphia. Antonio was much more comfortable with it and had to basically talk Tom into it. And that wasn't much of a kiss.
I don't think it means Tom Hanks is not much of an actor. Surely we can agree on that. :)
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But they did more than kiss, they showed real passion toward each other. I am not sure if every straight actor could do that. And maybe he didn't feel he could convey that, so maybe that was why he was relieved not to get a call back.
Tom Hanks said he felt very uncomfortable doing the kiss he did in Philadelphia. Antonio was much more comfortable with it and had to basically talk Tom into it. And that wasn't much of a kiss.
I don't think it means Tom Hanks is not much of an actor. Surely we can agree on that. :)
Well...we certainly can agree that Tom Hanks did it, even though he felt uncomfortable doing it. And yes, that, to me, speaks to his being a good actor.
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Well...we certainly can agree that Tom Hanks did it, even though he felt uncomfortable doing it. And yes, that, to me, speaks to his being a good actor.
That one kiss (in the hospital) in Philadelphia can not compare to the passion showed in BB. I doubt Tom Hanks could have or would have pulled off BB (especially as he was so uptight about one small kiss). Not every actor could. I think the fact that Jake and Heath did is wonderful. But no, I don't think every straight actor could or would. Mark just seems to be admitting it, I guess we would have to poll them all to find out where they stand. We may be suprised.
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But no, I don't think every straight actor could or would.
Likewise I don't think every actor, regardless of orientation, could pull off the job Jackie Earle Haley did in 'Little Children' or play the creepy role that Philip Seymour Hoffman plays in Happiness - just good ones.
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But no, I don't think every straight actor could or would.
Likewise I don't think every actor, regardless of orientation, could pull off the job Jackie Earle Haley did in 'Little Children' or play the creepy role that Philip Seymour Hoffman plays in Happiness - just good ones.
I actually haven't seen either of those movies. But I do think people/actors have ranges. Could anyone have played Michael in the Godfather, I don't think so? Could anyone have played Hanibal Lector, I don't think so?
And could anyone have played Ennis Del Mar or Jack Twist, no I don't think so? Some parts take more than just being a good actor.
Anyway I like Mark and I would just like to give him the benifit of the doubt. Hey maybe he would say "you know what I am not a good enough actor to pull that off convincingly"
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Anyway I like Mark and I would just like to give him the benifit of the doubt. Hey maybe he would say "you know what I am not a good enough actor to pull that off convincingly"
If he had said that, fine. But he didn't. It's always about the gay roles that actors comment on things like that. Have you ever heard an actor say they would turn down a role like Raging Bull cause it was too violent, or glad they didn't get a call back for The Godfather for the same reasons? Or playing a porn actor cause it's against their morals. Ridiculous! It's always the gay roles that get mentioned in this context. That's why bells go off to gay men when they hear statements like Wahlberg's. Those two roles in BBM were great parts for ACTORS and any actor shoulda been thrilled to have been up for them or even asked to read for the parts. No actor is gonna admit being relieved they didn't get a callback for some part unless they had a problem with it. Mark obviously had a problem with it as we know a lot of straight men do, and it's called homophobia.
As for articles about Tom Hanks being uncomfortable kissing in Philadelphia...why isn't anyone ever uncomfortable slaughtering people in films? No one asks actors those questions. Dennis Quaid was probably not nominated for his role in Far from Heaven, because when he kept getting asked about playing a gay man and doing kissing scenes his reply was "If you are human and have a capacity to love, it's as easy as playing a straight role." Award voters like their actors who play gay men to be tortured about it and find it HARD to play those roles. Heaven forbid it should be as easy as Dennis said. If he had goner around being tortured about it and saying how difficult or uncomfortable it was, he'd probably have gotten a nomination.
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Well first of all, I am scared to respond to you Lyle!!! lol
But yes many actors do turn down parts because they are violent, or because they don't feel comfortable with the subject matter. I can't tell you how many actors I have read saying, they want to do movies their kids can see. This seems to be more of a concern when they become Parents. They start to go for PG family oriented films. So yes the choice is theirs to make.
And no I don't believe being "uncomfortable" about something translates to homophobia. I don't believe that for one minute.
I have already said, my husband does not have a homophobic bone in his body. He probably could not have done those love scenes in BB with another man.
IF you think that makes a person homophobic fine, I do not agree.
And it wasn't long ago everyone was on Dennis Quaids back for jokes he had made about Brokeback! By the way Dennis Quaid is another actor that I have alot of admiration for.
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Funny though I was just reading an article in Variety and it said:
The agents for Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal (both at CAA) took a substantial risk putting their actors into "Brokeback Mountain" but it paid off big time. Their challenge now is to re-establish both in more traditional macho roles, and the jury is still out on this objective.
I still thank alot of actors are afraid to be typecast!
Lola, what was the context of this article? On its own, it can also be construed as homophobia on the part of their agents. Many actors play similar roles if the parts are good--anyone hear of SEQUELS?--DeNiro has, Nicholson has, Kevin Costner almost didn't do Field of Dreams cause he had just played a baseball player in Bull Durham, but the part was good. Agents are more homophobic than many of their clients. Even GAY agents. Especially even gay agents. Agents have got to get over this mentality. What if Heath or Jake were offered parts in Take Me Out or The Dreyfus Affair or The Front Runner? Should they turn them down cause they're gay? And are agents saying baseball players are not traditionally macho? Or just gay baseball players? Anyway, I was wondering what context that paragraph you quoted came from?
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I will go back and find it for you Lyle! ;)
And yes people do get typecast, just ask Henry Winkler.
To a large extent Robert DeNiro has been typecasted with his career. Agents want to make money, if the client makes money they make money. And to make money the actor has to get parts, lots of different parts, making big bucks!!
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I think one thing is forgotten---he's a boston Boy, a Southie. No matter how they change there is no way a Southie who is str8 can kiss another guy. Even in film. It's conditioning.
I have a totally un-homophobic brother and he has danced with a guy, but there is no way in hell he could ever kiss one. As in no way. Again, conditioning. There are some things you can't get over, no matter how unhomophobic you are. Mark is a very balanced, and yes, open and tolerant guy and he fought to become that way. He was a Boston street kid. So if he can't kiss in a role, so what? His buds would have busted his chops forever lol.
Me i'd rather jump off a cliff then have to kiss Paris Hilton, but that's just personal taste.
roflmao
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Well yeah, there is that southie thing. But they would probably kiss the Pope in a movie, right? Or at least his ring.
So...the reason Matt Damon was able to play gay in 'The Talented Mr. Ripley' is because he was born across the river in Cambridge? I'm very confused by this geographic specificity. I think this may be something for Sacha Baron Cohen to take on in his Brüno movie.
I have to say that I'm a little surprised that Mark would say this (which makes me want to read the article to see exactly what he does say) as he had this to say about his gay uncle last year:
http://www.keithboykin.com/arch/2006/04/24/marky_mark_wahl_1
But for me this is really a question of acting ability vs. any internalized homophobia. That's why talking about our relatives or friends in this context seems somewhat besides the fact here - supposedly (hopefully) actors have training to bring out their natural ability to take on a role, regardless of the role. That's why people like Jackie Earle Haley are able to play a pedophile, Philip Seymour Hoffman can play someone who engages in telephone scatalogia and Terence Stamp can play a transgender performer and yet not be involved in that in their personal lives - they know how to act.
Oddly, I don't think I've heard similar things from women regarding roles like Charlize Theron's performance in 'Monster', Gina Gershon's role in 'Bound' or (switching to transgender issues for a moment) Hilary Swank's role in 'Boys Don't Cry.'
As for Paris Hilton - well, I think that would best be left for an 'X-files/kissing aliens' discussion.
I think one thing is forgotten---he's a boston Boy, a Southie. No matter how they change there is no way a Southie who is str8 can kiss another guy. Even in film. It's conditioning.
I have a totally un-homophobic brother and he has danced with a guy, but there is no way in hell he could ever kiss one. As in no way. Again, conditioning. There are some things you can't get over, no matter how unhomophobic you are. Mark is a very balanced, and yes, open and tolerant guy and he fought to become that way. He was a Boston street kid. So if he can't kiss in a role, so what? His buds would have busted his chops forever lol.
Me i'd rather jump off a cliff then have to kiss Paris Hilton, but that's just personal taste.
roflmao
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http://www.covenantnetwork.org/sermon%26papers/jenkins.htm
The above link might pertain somewhat to Friday's TDS...
Might...
:)
(I'm certainly not of the religious sort... but I came across the article a couple moments ago...)
Rob
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Well there is a truly huge difference between South Boston and Cambridge, in class, attitudes, behaviour, damned near everything. It's as huge if not bigger then say, Midtown Manhattan and the South Bronx. that's why i pointed out his origins. Matt Damon over the river wasn't habitualy arrested, Mark Wahlberg in S.B. was.
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So...the reason Matt Damon was able to play gay in 'The Talented Mr. Ripley' is because he was born across the river in Cambridge? I'm very confused by this geographic specificity. I think this may be something for Sacha Baron Cohen to take on in his Brüno movie.
Again a movie with no real sexual contact. I loved Talented Mr. Ripley and he appeared to be in love with Jude Laws character, but NOTHING happend between them.
One quick kiss in In and Out. One quick kiss in Far from Heaven. Not the same as BB mountain. The kisses were passionate, the love scenes were intense. I mean this was the first main stream movie of it's kind.
That is why we have this website dedicated to it!!
Brokeback you and I are on the same page!!! ;D
I guess we are never going to find out exactly what Mark said, unless we go get the article. Which I plan to do. But if all he said was...................after reading the script he was kind of relieved he didn't get a call back.........then to me he was just being honest and in no way does that translate to being homophobic.
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On another topic the DS should --lol-- cover next weeks approaching Paris Hilton Scandal. Some dimwit decided to have her open the Operaball. All Vienna is agog at such poor taste. Will she wear clothes?? Will she bring that overbred mutt?? Will she show any knowledge of, umm, ANYthing, period??
Truly it is the scandal of the Viennese year and TDS would entertain us all by covering Paris behaviour in Europe's most conservative and traditional ex-imperial capital!!! Apparently it is the sole topic of conversation, from the cafes of the InnerCity to the far reaches of that awful district, Transdanubia.
A bona-fide whore opening the Operaball, God save us all!!!!!! Any coverage of the proposed protests at her appearance are welcome!
We even have a DCF correspondent on the ground there to give reports!
LOL LOL
God i loathe that ho!
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It's nice to see TDS running profiles of Europeans lately.
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On another topic the DS should --lol-- cover next weeks approaching Paris Hilton Scandal. Some dimwit decided to have her open the Operaball. All Vienna is agog at such poor taste. Will she wear clothes?? Will she bring that overbred mutt?? Will she show any knowledge of, umm, ANYthing, period??
I hope she remembers to wear underwear! lol
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Wahlberg says, “Come to think of it, I didn’t see Brokeback Mountain. I missed it!”
“You know, I met with Ang Lee on that movie,” he says. “I read 15 pages of the script and got a little creeped out. It was very graphic, descriptive – the spitting on the hand, getting’ ready to do the thing…” He smiles self consciously. “At one point they were talking about Joaquin [Phoenix] being in the film. Joaquin, I know, and [we] like each other a lot. I think of him like a brother. You know, I’ve kissed my brother before, not like that, not passionate, you know. So, it was like, uh, I was kind of freaked out. But I told Ang, ‘I like you, you’re a talented guy, if you want to talk about it more…’ But, uh, [chuckles] thankfully, he didn’t, uh, he didn’t call me again. “But I should see it. My mother loves that movie. She loves it.”
Wahlberg shakes his head, smiling. “He [his make-up man] brought the movie to the trailer while me and all the guys were shooting Invincible. All football guys, macho shit through the roof. So he comes in [high sing song voice], ‘It’s movie day! You guys gotta’ watch this movie!’ After five or six minutes, most of the trailer is empty.”
Bottom line: “I didn’t rush to see Brokeback, it’s just not my deal. And I know how talented Ang Lee is. Obviously, it was done in taste – look how it was received. And it’s a beautiful thing. It’s just not necessarily my thing.” On the other hand, “I don’t know how many times I saw Gina Gershon and Jennifer Tilly in Bound – loved it.”
Discomfort with this subject by straight men is homophobia. The discomfort is caused by fear. I don't suppose pedophilia is Mark's thing, either, but I bet he'd have no problem watching Little Children. Murder isn't his thing, either, I suppose, but he must have seen The Departed. Suppose Mark gets invited to be an academy member. I assume he wouldn't have seen BBM last year to vote on it.
He has to emphasize that all the guys in the trailer were super macho, as though gay men can't be that way. He deliberately mimics his make-up man in "a sing-song voice" to emphasize he is not.
I had no problem watching BOUND more than once, it's a great movie, I'm not phobic about watching two women together. But Mark states that he IS worried about it. Many straight men are. That is homophobia.
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As for articles about Tom Hanks being uncomfortable kissing in Philadelphia...why isn't anyone ever uncomfortable slaughtering people in films? No one asks actors those questions. Dennis Quaid was probably not nominated for his role in Far from Heaven, because when he kept getting asked about playing a gay man and doing kissing scenes his reply was "If you are human and have a capacity to love, it's as easy as playing a straight role." Award voters like their actors who play gay men to be tortured about it and find it HARD to play those roles. Heaven forbid it should be as easy as Dennis said. If he had gone around being tortured about it and saying how difficult or uncomfortable it was, he'd probably have gotten a nomination.
I second that.
Very good thoughts and observations, Lyle!
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I actually felt more unfomfortable watching Bound than I did Brokeback, wonder what that says about me? :D
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I just had to say something about the Mark Wahlberg, formerely kown as Marky Mark, let us not forget, interview in Premiere-Jesus, don't people's publicists go over this stuff with them?? I cannot believe how bad looks, IMO, in that article. His personality never did appeal much to me, even as I liked his acting in 1 or 2 things. Now I know what some of that was.....His hphobia is fairly blatant here, and in these days, an 'actor' better be much more aware and willing if they are to be part of art reflecting life.
In other words, grow up; get over your macho rap beginnings.
Sorrry if that sounded harsh....
No I'm not.
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What runs rampant throughout this section of the interview and that
I found so offensive is Wahlberg's condescension.
His attitude of 'noblesse oblige'. I mean, who IS this guy?
Did he ACTUALLY tell Ang Lee, "I like you...You're a talented guy..."
(IF, indeed, this is the way it went down. Memories are faulty, after all...)
I'm thinking that Lee wouldn't be human if he weren't offended on some level and
on another level probably dismissed Wahlberg for the young fool that he is. Still, I suppose
that wouldn't have stopped him working with MW if he thought he could get
a decent performance out of him for BBM. The work comes first, after all.
I'm also thinking that Wahlberg speaks mighty fine for a guy who DIDN'T get
a call back from one of the world's greatest directors who then went on to
make what most critics and audiences think is a classic work of art. A film for
the ages. As opposed to, say, Planet of the Apes or Boogie Nights.
And yes, I agree that personal distaste didn't prevent Wahlberg from playing
a killer or a porn star or whatever.
Everything is on the table, it seems, except the idea that someone, somewhere
might think that BBM is 'his deal' or God forbid, 'his thing.'
AND it amazes me that, as an actor, he hasn't found the time or the inclination
to see BBM even in the privacy of his own home in a sealed room with no one
watching. I mean, he could even cloak the windows if he were afraid someone
might wander by and happen to glance in.
Isn't acting all about constantly learning and challenging yourself?
It is so NOT a static art. But then, what is?
You'd think that as an 'artist' he'd want to see two or three of the finest
performances ever put on film. Professional curiosity, if nothing else.
But no, he's afraid he might get 'creeped' out.
He's afraid what 'others' might say or think of him.
Talk about testosterone-challenged.
I'm so happy that his mother liked the film. I truly am.
But what has that to do with anything?
He's telling us something here, but damned if I can figure out exactly
what it is.
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Mark is about 35 years old, a bit old for the part anyway.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000242/bio
He is an interesting guy. And as you and I said in PM, he has a son now, so if he is homophobic in anyway, he better watch. It may come back to bite him in the ass one day.
Planet of the Apes bombed, but he has done alot of good movies and he is up for an academy award for The Departed. I loved Boogie Nights and he was great in Invinsible.
Reflecting on his delight for starring in Disney's "Invincible" (2006): "It's a movie my kids can see - my nieces and nephews. I haven't had that. None of my nieces and nephews have seen Boogie Nights, thank God! I haven't made too many PG movies
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Lordy,
I all ways pay attention my gut because it's so damned honest about my feelings. My gut tells me Mark is homophobic, condescending, patronizing, and JEALOUS of both Jake and Heath. They are both almost 10 years his junior, both now members of the Academy, and both actors gained unparalleled worldwide recognition as brilliant gifted YOUNG actors by starring in Brokeback Moiuntain.
Where was Mark's publicist is my only question.
sass
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I'm of 2 minds here. Part of me accepts the feeling that macho jocks will walk watching BBM when they came for a football game, while feeling frustrated by it. Part of me is just as annoyed by gay heterophobia as it is by straight homophobia. I dislike both, having been the target of both.
And all the it-shouldn't- be-this-way whining on earth won't change either of those facts.
Only time will.
Until it does make the best of it without bitterness, because that will kill you just as surely, albeit more slowly, then a tire iron will.
On the other hand MW's comment about Ang Lee is hilarious. I mean WTF, he was in that potboiler Three Kings.
Maybe AL wanted him to play Munroe, he certainly wasn't either Ennis or Jack--too old.
LOL
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Maybe he wanted him to play Aguirre! :D
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Now there's a thought! An awful one, but a thought.
{Speaking of whom, some of us on the Film threads have decided that the tel call in Aguirre's office, considering the time and day, WAS/MAY have been from Jack's partner of the year before and Aguirre--notice his little glance upwards, towards JT-- KNEW they'd shagged more then the sheep that summer...when JT was 18.....}
What I do know is that I can't watch BBM too much, last night I saw it from Focus logo to credits for the first viewing in a long time and it destroyed me.
Maybe Mark should see it...
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Now there's a thought! An awful one, but a thought.
{Speaking of whom, some of us on the Film threads have decided that the tel call in Aguirre's office, considering the time and day, WAS/MAY have been from Jack's partner of the year before and Aguirre--notice his little glance upwards, towards JT-- KNEW they'd shagged more then the sheep that summer...when JT was 18.....}
What I do know is that I can't watch BBM too much, last night I saw it from Focus logo to credits for the first viewing in a long time and it destroyed me.
Maybe Mark should see it...
Well Jack had been with men before, we know that for sure. I am sorry you had such a hard time watching it, it really is a beautiful film.
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Now there's a thought! An awful one, but a thought.
{Speaking of whom, some of us on the Film threads have decided that the tel call in Aguirre's office, considering the time and day, WAS/MAY have been from Jack's partner of the year before and Aguirre--notice his little glance upwards, towards JT-- KNEW they'd shagged more then the sheep that summer...when JT was 18.....}What I do know is that I can't watch BBM too much, last night I saw it from Focus logo to credits for the first viewing in a long time and it destroyed me.
Maybe Mark should see it...
OMG, OMG, that idea was a photocap first!
Jack, I respect your opinion -- this was a fave photocap of mine, cause I always thought that phone call was so bizarre.
But, it truly amazes me to find out that a group has figured this is part of the canon! Unless -- oh of course, you are kidding!!! ;D Joke's on me.
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The discussion here is lurching far away from responding to The Daily Sheet, but, quite frankly, we get so few posts here, I'm not going to grouch about it.
Regarding Mark Wahlberg, havng not read the Premiere interview, I can't comment on it. I have followed his career from the beginning - it was hard not to, living in New York back in the late 80s or whenever it was that one could stand in Times Square and see him in all his magnificence as an underwear model, standing high above Broadway as a billboard Colossus in tighty-whiteys on behalf of Calvin Klein. I must say, starting out in that capacity, he has made an impressive career, going from model to rap performer to actor and producer. I thought his performance in The Departed was top notch.
Having said that, I do recall back in his immediate post-Calvin Klein days, after he started the rap thing, he was quoted as making anti-gay slurs, which he subsequently retracted or apologized for or something. He, or perhaps his handlers, realized that as Marky Mark with the buldging crotch in those ubiquitous ads, he had quite a significant gay following. In this interview did he really say he was creeped out at the thought of BBM and couldn't even watch it? If true, this is something to keep in mind as we reflect upon where we were one year ago, anticipating a Best Picture Aacademy Award for Brokeback Mountain. If contemporary Hollywood figures of his stature (I'm not talking about Tony Curtis and Ernest Borgnine, who I can cut some slack for being of another generation and out of touch) make such statements, its a wonder our movie won as many Oscars as it did.
He can decline to play any role he wants - since Ang Lee was involved with the project much earlier, its quite possible he might have talked to Wahlberg - but if he made such comments as described above, it says a lot about who he really is, and it's not a pretty picture.
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nope.
Talk with Joanne and Marion. They had pages on it but right now I'm unsure of which Film thread.
The moment I heard this it was ...umm no. Then I had to look at Jack, his behaviour, and what I know of 19 year old boys who like boys. And then it was, umm, yeah, this fits. Everything about it fits. So I tend to believe it, because much falls into place if that interpretation is given to that phone call.
sorry des. sometimes OT is sort of compulsive.
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Now wouldn't it be great if Larry Miller did a special srceening of BBM?
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hopes Miller's new open-mindedness will make him a "bellwether for LDS culture."
:D What a great image! A bellwether is a castrated goat wearing a bell. ;) :)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AyvD05cclmnRgRM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fstatic.flickr.com%2F42%2F104346633_93dd00b803_m.jpg&hash=26989757fe64d05a02c48aa620a38a4b26e2ea67)
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some of us on the Film threads have decided that the tel call in Aguirre's office, considering the time and day, WAS/MAY have been from Jack's partner of the year before and Aguirre--notice his little glance upwards, towards JT-- KNEW they'd shagged more then the sheep that summer...when JT was 18
Well, for one thing, I guess I hope you don't mean a few have decided, and I hope it is not presented this way in the film threads, because while it may make sense to a few people, it is a pretty far reach-- we have no way of knowing what that phone call is about, there is nothing to suggest it is about Jack, and it is not in the story.
As a photocap I love it, but -- it is just a bit of business, recently discussed in the "dislikes about Brokeback thread--" (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=9070.msg703129#msg703129)[/b] the best reason for that phone call was given by Lance, who thought it was to demonstrate Aquirre's sour personality, and also to provide a shot long enough to highlight the binoculars in the background--and to give Ennis and Jack a chance to look at each other, secretly, so they thought. Because this phone call is only in the movie, I would say that these cinematic motives are probably the only reason for the phone call. It is not in the story and IMO does not have anything to do with Jack, who is nothing more than a deuce goin' nowhere at that point.
Sorry I won't comment on this anymore in this thread, and probably no where else since I expect others have already reacted with similar incredulity in other threads.
sorry des. sometimes OT is sort of compulsive.
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I'm of 2 minds here. Part of me accepts the feeling that macho jocks will walk watching BBM when they came for a football game, while feeling frustrated by it. Part of me is just as annoyed by gay heterophobia as it is by straight homophobia. I dislike both, having been the target of both.
The article does not say the guys were in the trailer to watch a football game. Mark just states that all of them in the trailer were football guys.
You know...NOT gay. Cause gays can't be football guys.
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well, my impression is that they were there to watch football, which is what I got out of it.
In any case i no longer care. If Mark wants to be silly, then let him be silly.
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Friends this message is a long time overdue.I want to thank all you people who have contacted me to say how much you,ve enjoyed the paintings and drawings run in TDS.The one of Jack and the lamb seemed to strike a particular chord,maybe because that special quality of Jack's gentle tenderness crept in there.Or perhaps you were all so jealous of the sheep! ;) So thanks a lot,your opinions and feedback are greatly appreciated.
Janie.
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[
Discomfort with this subject by straight men is homophobia. The discomfort is caused by fear.
In my opinion, this is not the case, in general. To suggest that a person who is uncomfortable with something has some sort of abnormalsy is, ironically, the same "problem" that is being suggested MW has. By your definition, discomfort is a no no which is absurd. One need need not be comfortable wtih any particular subject, issue, experience, etc, to be perfectly capable and accepting and tolerant of others who choose to be more comfortable or more interested. to suggest there ought not be any personal likes, dislikes, 'comfort zones' etc is to suggest that everyone should be the same. Not sure this would be a good idea. I think MW's comments were honest, interesting, and totally acceptable.
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Thanks for such a nice TDS today about Jake on the red carpet. How exciting for our lashers who saw him. The story was nicely edited and the pics devine.
And we continue to hope Jake is going to make it through his twenties as the wonderful balanced guy he has shown himself to be so far! xxoo
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I second that, it was a nice article to read. What got me was jake's detached professionalism, he's a star, he knows how to behave. He's private, didn't make eye contact yet was the perferct polished man to his fans, even to the point of bringing a pen to sign autographs.
Professional with class; I have a feeling this guy will stay a star for a long time.
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Discomfort with this subject by straight men is homophobia. The discomfort is caused by fear.
In my opinion, this is not the case, in general. To suggest that a person who is uncomfortable with something has some sort of abnormalsy is, ironically, the same "problem" that is being suggested MW has. By your definition, discomfort is a no no which is absurd. One need need not be comfortable wtih any particular subject, issue, experience, etc, to be perfectly capable and accepting and tolerant of others who choose to be more comfortable or more interested. to suggest there ought not be any personal likes, dislikes, 'comfort zones' etc is to suggest that everyone should be the same. Not sure this would be a good idea. I think MW's comments were honest, interesting, and totally acceptable.
Some people have a fear of heights, acrophobia. So they are uncomfortable in tall buildings, bridges, etc. It does not mean they don't have to negotiate being in tall buildings or bridges at some times. It doesn't mean they "hate" tall buildings or bridges. People who have phobias don't necessarily hate the thing they have a phobia about, although because it's fear based, which includes discomfort, it can lead to hateful acts sometimes.
Most people will admit a phobia they have. People do not, however, like to admit they might be homophobic because that is a phobia that involves other humans and no one really wants to think of themselves in that way . It's an idea that never occurred to me before a few months ago when it was introduced in an article--that homophobia may not always indicate hate. Fear does not equal hate.
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Thanks for such a nice TDS today about Jake on the red carpet. How exciting for our lashers who saw him. The story was nicely edited and the pics devine.
And we continue to hope Jake is going to make it through his twenties as the wonderful balanced guy he has shown himself to be so far! xxoo
I hope so too, these are formative years as far as his career and life goes. I hope he keeps his head screwed on right. I think his sister, parents etc. are a big influence on him. :)
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TDS was perfect for Valentine's Day, it felt romantic even for a web-based thingy! :)
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Discomfort with this subject by straight men is homophobia. The discomfort is caused by fear.
In my opinion, this is not the case, in general. To suggest that a person who is uncomfortable with something has some sort of abnormalsy is, ironically, the same "problem" that is being suggested MW has. By your definition, discomfort is a no no which is absurd. One need need not be comfortable wtih any particular subject, issue, experience, etc, to be perfectly capable and accepting and tolerant of others who choose to be more comfortable or more interested. to suggest there ought not be any personal likes, dislikes, 'comfort zones' etc is to suggest that everyone should be the same. Not sure this would be a good idea. I think MW's comments were honest, interesting, and totally acceptable.
Some people have a fear of heights, acrophobia. So they are uncomfortable in tall buildings, bridges, etc. It does not mean they don't have to negotiate being in tall buildings or bridges at some times. It doesn't mean they "hate" tall buildings or bridges. People who have phobias don't necessarily hate the thing they have a phobia about, although because it's fear based, which includes discomfort, it can lead to hateful acts sometimes.
Most people will admit a phobia they have. People do not, however, like to admit they might be homophobic because that is a phobia that involves other humans and no one really wants to think of themselves in that way . It's an idea that never occurred to me before a few months ago when it was introduced in an article--that homophobia may not always indicate hate. Fear does not equal hate.
I am confuse your point, although trying very hard to figure it out. It appears you are suggesting there is a parallel between MW's "discomfort" with acting out a gay love scene (and extrapilating this to the general population of straight people who may be uncomfortable with this as well) with fear of heights, and that somehow fear leads to hateful acts.
I think you are very much overlooking the fact that people have likes and dislikes that have nothing to do with fear, acts of hate, or hate. the word 'homophobia' was invented, I think erroneously, to label people who may not endorse certain aspects of gay life; again, it may have nothing to do with 'fear'. There is nothing wrong with gravitating toward things one likes and not gravitatitng toward things one does not like.
One can respect and support something without participating or being comfortable in its arena. What I am sensing you are looking for is not acceptance by others, rather that they convert somehow to your own reality.
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Hey all - The off-topic lurching has been brought to my attention by others, who have asked that this thread remain devoted to responding to The Daily Sheet. So please continue disucssions of homophobia, etc., in the appropriate threads in The Gay Experience, ok? Many thanks for your cooperation.
And, yes, Red Carpet Jake was mighty fine.
Des
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Hey all - The off-topic lurching has been brought to my attention by others, who have asked that this thread remain devoted to responding to The Daily Sheet. So please continue disucssions of homophobia, etc., in the appropriate threads in The Gay Experience, ok? Many thanks for your cooperation.
And, yes, Red Carpet Jake was mighty fine.
Des
Hey Des...
LONG time!
One more post and ya hit 1000!
About time, eh?
Loved today's Daily Sheet!
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Hey all - The off-topic lurching has been brought to my attention by others, who have asked that this thread remain devoted to responding to The Daily Sheet. Des
Okay, Des, but this article was a feature on TDS, so people were responding to it here.
HerrKaiser and others interested, my response
and this discussion continues if you Click HERE (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=1433.msg739199#msg739199)!
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The Valentine TDS was simply great!!!
And so was the reportage on the Lasher Angels at the BAFTA Red Carpet headquarter...
Both texts fun to read and nicely compiled!
I downloaded them for further enjoyment. ;)
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OMG That translation from the play is a riot!
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The computer generated translation of the Dutch blurb re BBM play:
“Jacket and Ennis guard sheep in a paradise, the savage Wyoming. And exactly as onherbergzaam, infinitely harsh and tenderly as the landscape, is love. Brokeback Mountain are non-conventional, breathing and ongetemd tale concerning two cowboys in wild the west. Simple hardwerkende men who deserve bread with their hands their daily. They find love where them that lowest expecting. A love which a life lasts long. But what is lifelong in a world in which men talk a little and violence to everything can make an end?"
One of our Dutch forum members, drifting_elfie, provided us with the following:
"Jack and Ennis are herding sheep in a paradise that is rugged Wyoming. And just as impenetrable, endlessly rough and tender as the landscape, is love. Brokeback Mountain is an unconventional, breathing and untamed story about two cowboys in the wild west. Simple, hardworking men who earn their daily living with their hands. They find tenderness where they least expect. A love that lasts a lifetime. But what is a lifetime in a world where men speak little and violence can end everything?"
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Oh, Elle, what a beautiful way of phrasing the meaning of our story. :'( Thanks to drifting_elfie for the REAL translation.
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One of our Dutch forum members, drifting_elfie, provided us with the following:
"Jack and Ennis are herding sheep in a paradise that is rugged Wyoming. And just as impenetrable, endlessly rough and tender as the landscape, is love. Brokeback Mountain is an unconventional, breathing and untamed story about two cowboys in the wild west. Simple, hardworking men who earn their daily living with their hands. They find tenderness where they least expect. A love that lasts a lifetime. But what is a lifetime in a world where men speak little and violence can end everything?"
Now that is beautiful. Thanks Elfie.
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Ah, perfect. And proof that machines can never replace humans.
Thank you elfie. :)
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Loved the report on Jake.
Great pix, too.
I watched his acceptance of the Best Kiss MTV award for
the first time yesterday. Thanks for including the link.
Though it was a fun award, JG still managed to inject a
touch of seriousness with his comment about love.
What a nice guy.
Also wanted to thank you for the Valentines Day
Shakespearean quotes. Yeah, that guy knew how to
string a few words together - didn't he? :)
LOVED the one from THE TEMPEST.
"I would not wish any companion in the world but you."
Made me get all misty-eyed.
Thought of Jack and Ennis.
Yeah, yeah, I'm an old softy.
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Elle, that gave me indeed a good laugh! :D
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Just read the story about the two retired black baseball (?) players - the late coming out and the violent homophobic reaction. Here in France it was in ALL the newspapers (of course WITHOUT the later excuse).
It's terrifying that especially in sports gay issues still seem to be somewhere in the Middle Ages.
Good lord, this really has to change! >:( >:( >:(
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Just read the story about the two retired black baseball (?) players - the late coming out and the violent homophobic reaction. Here in France it was in ALL the newspapers (of course WITHOUT the later excuse).
It's terrifying that especially in sports gay issues still seem to be somewhere in the Middle Ages.
Good lord, this really has to change! >:( >:( >:(
Yes Ingmar,I agree, You live in the country that gives us the yearly "Les dieux du stade" calendar and video which displays those gorgeous nude football players. Now tell me, why isn't same sex marriage still not legal in France?
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Well, at least you can get PACSed. :)
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Well, at least you can get PACSed. :)
It ain't the same ;D
Now all we need here in Canada are calendars of naked hockey players...
By the way nice profile Mini, loved that hair :-*
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That would be pleasant indeed, Jean.
PACSed? ???
Here in Virginia, the way things are going, I'd settle for an equal-rights partnership, even if politically it can't be called marriage. Many of the voters here seem to choke on that word.
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Thanks for the link to' Loving with all your...brain' article.
After reading it, I thought: Hey, what about us?
Why can't researchers be more inclusive and extend their studies of straight males and females to cover gay people? They didn't think to do brain scans of gays in love and in lust?
Science is still blinkered by ideology and the unexamined assumptions of researchers.
If same-sex attrraction is genetic or partly genetic, there must have been gays on those African grasslannds all those years ago and those gay genes are still here now, so they must be functional in terms of human survival and reproduction too. Any research study that stops at straight male and female subjects is only half finished.
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as a response to the dutch BBM theatre play The site from that is in english too,on the top of the site besides the weeten van keppler,you see English.just click on it and it all appears in english!
i`m gonna see the play march 28th.
http://www.wettenvankepler.nl/indexsite.php
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PACS is what the Socialist government thought would be the equivalent of gay civil union, some years ago, here in France. Of course it's not at all an equivalent.
It's not comparable at all to a 'real' civil marriage as we have them now in the UK, Netherlands, Belgium etc.
It's as if you throw a piece of old bread to a beggar and tell him : at least you don't starve anymore...
My partner and I have decided never to get PACSed but to wait that in either country (I'm German) an authentic civil union/partnership for gay people comes along. We won't do with 'less'.
It's a shame for a nation like France that it's way behind the development in other countries. There's nothing to be proud of, claiming all the time to be 'tolerant', to practice 'égalité.
Sadly, with the next President this is unlikely to change, again for a long time. Sarkozy, the conservative candidate who is very likely to win the forthcoming election as it seems, hates the idea of gay marriage.
As for the rugby calendar, this is just cheating the gay community. The rugby players are homophobic in an extreme manner. They do it (posing in the nude) just for the money and the fame. Tant pis, if gay men are so stupid to buy this calendar for their wank fantasies, and can't see that is just a business matter, nothing else.
The actual state of the gay scene in France is rather depressing (just my two cents, but I've lived here for 17 years by now, and it's close to the gay Middle Ages).
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This from the article on the brain:
"But she adds there's probably a more anthropological reason at work. Simply put: A man's evolutionary mission is to spread his seed. That won't work if he mates with an 80-year-old grandmother.
"Men have to be able to size up a woman visually to see if she can bear babies," says Dr. Fisher."
I wonder how this applies to gays.
Ingmar, I really wonder how homophobes would agree, for any amount of money, to pose nude for a publication destined mainly to gay men.
It's quite a paradox. Il y a anguille sous roche...you're the translator, I can't find the equivalent, maybe "there's something amiss"?
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as a response to the dutch BBM theatre play The site from that is in english too,on the top of the site besides the weeten van keppler,you see English.just click on it and it all appears in english!
i`m gonna see the play march 28th.
http://www.wettenvankepler.nl/indexsite.php
Can't wait to hear what you think of the play, Conny! And I love the name, Wetten van Kepler, even if they spell the last name wrong. :D :D :D
(Mine's spelled Keppler!)
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i would have thought it had to be keppler too fritz ;) and ofcourse i will give a detailed review with pictures!!
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i would have thought it had to be keppler too fritz ;) and ofcourse i will give a detailed review with pictures!!
Johannes occasionally spelled his name with two p's. In fact, he spelled it about 12 different ways in his lifetime. They weren't too picky about it back then.
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I loved the profile of mini! A lovelier person can't be imagined...
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I second that , about Mini-she is just wonderful. The profile does manage to capture well the friend I know.
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Whew... I agreed with some trepidation a couple weeks ago to submit a member profile of myself. I was about to send it in today and now there's no Daily Sheet! So the good news is I can maintain my anonymity. The bad news is... there's no Daily Sheet.
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?
Is it excluded from now on to see more TDS-profiles, just because of the 'sondag'e' they're starting this week?
I don't think so...
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My only personal involvement with TDS (other than reading it) has been in the form of guest fic reviews. If doing more reviews would be a help, I'd make time for them. If the PTB and the members decide on a weekly format, I don't think that would be a bad thing (but the name would have to change ;D ).
Sure would hate to see it fade away.
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Someone said the other day they never read it, I wonder if everyone does. I know I do and I appreciate it being there. It is like everything else in life, people want it, but don't want to do any of the work! lol If you had to cut in down to a once a week thing I think that would be fine. I would imagine it is alot of work to do it every day.
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I read TDS every day because it was there. I would be happy with one long DS once a week (TWS). Maybe hardly anyone volunteered at the last call because it seems like such an overwhelming commitment. If 8 people were to each be responsible for one DS every 2 months maybe there would be more takers.
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I will miss the Daily Sheet. It wasn't equally interesting every day, but I nearly always read it before I did anything else here.
I would be glad to be involved. I signed up to edit, but could not deal with being responsible for a whole day's content twice a week. I would be DEE-LIGHTED to write articles based on someone else's suggestions or news items.
I say we invite real interaction. Let the Photocaptioners submit worthy caps, let's have a poem every week, encourage posters to nominate interesting posts in their favorite threads--and then run the whole post, rather than a digest. That way the Sheet is longer with less effort… Not all posts will be interesting to all members, but there would be some attracted to threads they don't normally visit by an interesting post, which would be part of the point. The rest being just to offer a sampling of what we're thinking about BBM that day/week.
Just to record my opinion, I was never interested in all the "this day in history" stuff at the bottom. Looked too much like boilerplate to me.
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I've always been amazed at TDS - it's quality, breadth, and the professionalism that it brought to the forum in general. I really think it is a feature that sets us apart from other forums, and it have it disappear would be a great loss.
Alas, I have never been able to read it every day. For me, a few days a week publication would be perfectly adequate. In fact I think it was some time before I realized that we were not publishing editions on Sundays. That said I'd be much more in favor of a few short entries a week than one long one.
Kudos to all of the TDS editors - past and present - for doing a fantastic job. Thanks.
Monica
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Hey guys...Just to say thanks and you rock. :-* :D
Also, I'd be more than willing to help with whatever would be needed...knowing though that I couldn't be an "every day" person cuz of work.school/mom stuff...and I am mediocre with HTML ::) ::) ::) ::)
But I too, dont want to see TDS disappear, though if it was 2-3 days a week, that'd be ok too, so long as its not gone.
IF I can help PM me, ok? and let me know what it would entail....
xo to all
Melissa
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First, I love the Daily Sheet and read it every day. Second, it sounds like maybe we have a lot of people who would like to help but can't take on a lot of responsibility, so maybe a volunteer coordinator would be useful and a board or team or possee of directors, who can give the editors advice. Like a real magazine--so have people who just do the writing and editing, people who just help decide what to put in, people who just find what to put in and people who just oversee. Does this sound too complicated? I'm a writer by profession and an editor, so I can help with that. Plus I periodically find interesting articles in the newspaper--like yesterday's New York Times had an article about Jake's new movie--that I think, "hmm, I bet the Forum folks would like to know about this." So I'm a little bit of a news hound and I bet others are too. It's a matter of coordinating this interest? I'm a terrible manager and terrible proofreader, btw. Plus I work and have kids and... so my time is limited.
Tina
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I too hope TDS (or TWS, or something) keeps on going.
The best thing about a Sheet is that it's a place to make announcement to the whole Forum, in more detail than would fit in the News Box. For example, michaelflanagansf uses it to alert people to what Books and Movies will be featured in the discussion groups, and to remind people to vote.
It's also a good way of publicizing actors' appearances on TV, or things like Stephen Gyllenhaal's readings. And it's a good way to publicize members' gatherings, like the upcoming Bay City Oscar Night thing.
For things like this, the "news" content depends on what members would submit as news. I wouldn't have a problem with seeing the Sheet vary from long to short, or from daily to less often, depending on how much news there is to report.
People have mentioned what they like and don't like about TDS:
I agree that "This Day in History" isn't necessary -- it's just filler.
I'm not that interested in the cowboy vocabulary either.
The photocaptions are nice, and the special art pictures -- but you can just wait for someone to submit them; don't need to feel obligated to find one for every day.
I like the idea of quoting posts from throughout the Forum, and maybe printing the entire post, or at least more of a post, if it's too long to be quoted in full. You could say, "There's an interesting discussion going on on the Whatever thread," and maybe introduce people to that thread -- maybe a lot of people don't even know the thread exists, because there are so many threads.
In general, I guess I'm saying, the Sheet doesn't have to be entertaining in itself, as much as it's a good way to bring the community together and let everybody know what's going on (both on the Forum, and in the outside world).
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I read TDS everyday as well.
Not, necessarily, all the way through, but generally enough to know what's going on.
I'm the world's greatest skimmer.
Off the top of my head:
I wouldn't mind a longer Sheet done once a week either.
I like R&R's suggestions of featuring an interesting post or two in their
entirety from that week's threads for all the reasons stated.
I also wouldn't mind keeping an eye out for interesting articles in papers
or magazines or wherever. I am a prolific reader and hoarder of information
and useless facts.
I review books for a mystery online website and would
be happy now and again to do a book review for the TDS as well.
It there's any interest in that sort of thing.
You might also want to have a film reviewer every once in a while.
I'm sure you're already doing this, but just in case, it wouldn't hurt to
have someone keep an eye out on the weekly news magazines.
Another idea might be to post any interesting art and/or literary exhibitions,
auctions, book fairs, events or whatever, occuring in different sections of the
country at any given time.
It would be limited to the tri-state NY/NJ area for me.
There are so many literary blogs floating around that just skimming through
them is a full time job. But they should be kept an eye on for interesting tidbits,
as well.
Publisher's Weekly, The New York Times, The New Yorker, Premiere,
New York and Vanity Fair are great sources of occasionally pertinent information.
Some arcane. Some not.
I apologize if I'm going over old territory.
But I did say I was speaking off the top of my head. ;)
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It would nice to have more non-North American content. Sometimes I see a news item in France or a film here and think that it would be interesting to the forum but don't pass it on because, well, it's in French. If I knew that, say, once a month the Sheet would have a non-American theme I would take the trouble to translate it or write about it. Maybe members in other countries feel the same.
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That would be wonderful chapeaugris.
I sometimes run across articles in other languages that I think might be interesting.
When I use an online translation program, it's usually quite a mess.
One of the greatest things about this forum is the participation by members outside of the U.S.
I've made new friends in Canada and Europe over the past year. It seems that every week I'm telling my friends here in Michigan about something that was written on the forum, and usually it's from one of the European members. I talk about Jari (Boris) a lot to my friends.
I would love to hear more about what is being said outside the U.S.
You guys and gals are pretty special!
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I'd be happy to see TDS become a weekly issue. I know how many times you all have scrambled to find something interesting to print on a slow news day.
If I was a better writer I'd volunteer to help more. I'm always impressed by and really appreciate all the hard work all of the editors have put into TDS.
Thank you all for contributing so much to the forum.
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Hi, I'm a lurker, and I have so often thought to myself I should go and thank the Daily Sheet producers for all the work they are doing for us, and now it took this to get me to do it. Posting doesn't come easy to me. I found this forum after seeing BBM last April. I had never even read another internet forum before and I was just too intimidated by the wealth of information. I went off and read all the threads of the old forum first, they seemed much easier to handle. When I finished them, I gave this forum a "second chance" and discovered the daily sheet. I've been reading it nearly every day since. It helped me to get a little bit of orientation, get a feel for the place and the community. It made me feel I could follow the forum in a general way when I didn't have more than 10 minutes a day to spare. I haven't really joined any discussions because they usually move on before I get there, but the daily sheet pointed out some great areas to go and lurk. I saw a lot of great posts I would never have discovered by myself, and discovered the lighter side of things like photo captioning fun, and fan fic! Another first for me.
I'll be really, really sorry to see the daily sheet go. But I appreciate how much hard work it is to keep something like this going. I admire all those who have worked on it for their giving their time, and their effort, and making it such a professional ... Daily Sheet?. Thank you all very much.
Personally, I'd rather see a shortened version of the sheet a few times in the week rather than just one. I will really miss my daily fix. But please, keep it going in some way.
Fran
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I've edited newsletter and the like before and I know what a tiring business it can be. Sometimes there just isn't the material to fill the pages and I've been feeling that this is TDS's problem for a while. I love reading it and always do so, but there is plenty of stuff that I just can't get interested in.
I'd be inclined to go with the idea of a weekly sheet with perhaps longer items. It's not as if there can't be extra editions if something arises which really needs to be splashed quickly.
Best wishes to kmich and elle_ann who have done a great job, and to everyone else at TDS.
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Personally--just me you understand--I think the current setup of TDS is designed to drain editors dry. In time past there was a position on this forum which no longer exists. The person in that position encouraged and gave a bit of praise to the people who were working their butts off for TDS. I don't think that happens now. You end up feeling demoralised.
That position is necessary. The owner of the Forum has too many irons in the fire to run this thing on a daily basis, and the people who keep it going deserve to have their work acknowledged. It's an enormous volume of work to do on an unpaid volunteer basis.
Also, if the Forum has grown too big, split it in two.
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hell, they wanted mine since something like April lolol. I'm fast over here, ain't I
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I read TDS every day, and have always appreciated the difficult job that it is and the wonderful people who have kept it going. Thank you, Elle and Kathy, as well as all of the formatters, columnists, and others who work so hard.
I would hate to see it fold entirely, but could manage with once a week, in the incarnation suggested above, if necessary.
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That position is necessary. The owner of the Forum has too many irons in the fire to run this thing on a daily basis, and the people who keep it going deserve to have their work acknowledged. It's an enormous volume of work to do on an unpaid volunteer basis.
Also, if the Forum has grown too big, split it in two.
Jack, I agree. I wouldn't suggest splitting the Forum, per se, but the management responsiblities for the different areas that we do have going so that all receive the support needed to keep each area functioning and the oversight necessary to keep all areas in coordination with the others. By areas I'm thinking of TDS, our Campaigns, our Moderator group, our Technical support group... just to start the list.
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Well - I just have to say that I've been amazed by Elle and Kmich (and Cactusgal and Tellyouwhat before them) and the work they put into the Daily Sheet. Thank you so very, very much.
I would think that we could go down to fewer days in the week - it would probably make it easier to do. And I can still do my column. I do appreciate what Lola said earlier about people who say they never read TDS - I often wondered if I was just writing for no one - I occasionally would get comments or P.M.s from people, and that helped.
For now, however, I'm just very grateful for the work you have done.
And I used to do a newsletter too - so I know it's not easy.
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A bit of a shock to read that we will not have our Daily Sheet for the rest of the week, and that the frequency of its appearing may change: I have looked forward eagerly to reading it virtually every day since I came on the forum last Spring. HUGE thanks to everyone who has contributed. It has made our forum seem more "professional" and substantial.
I've suggested some items, and even when they were not used, I got some warm and thoughtful replies from the editors. I often see things that make me want to contact the editors...but I haven't in awhile. I'm visiting New York this month, and yesterday, for instance, there was a mention of Brokeback in an article in the NY Times about men kissing in public...also various references to Brokeback in recent issues of NY gay publications. I even picked up a used book yesterday with a wonderful old vintage color photo of two cowboys on horseback...something called "The Cowboy's Prayer"...and the men look so much like Jack and Ennis...but I haven't the know-how to copy it digitally and submit it.
I'm very much looking forward to hearing more suggestions from fellow Brokies, and seeing what direction our Daily Sheet takes.
Jeff
I could well imagine a weekly Daily Sheet, if a daily one is no longer feasible
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I have always looked forward to each new issue of TDS. Usually, I read it on my lunch hour each day. The amount of time the editors and contributors have put into this project has been tremendous. I thank you all for your efforts and wish I had that kind of time available in my daily schedule. I agree with others here, in that a weekly sheet may be the best avenue to to take from here on. If nothing else, excerpts from the book to be released could be part of the weekly content. That might inspire some additional sales. I have to admit, however, the most entertaining thing in TDS in recent months was when Sparky had his column. Priceless.
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TDS is an amazing accomplishment on a forum such as this, i.e.fan based. The quality and commitment of its contributors is, I believe, unparalleled in other similar fora. I love the scope of the structure of the Sheet, incorporating such a variety of things; news articles, photocaptioning, fan activities, fan art, fiction reviews, BBM updates, etc. It is like a Base Camp from which to set out to explore new facets of the BBM World. This achievement would not be diminished by being published weekly but I would like to see it survive in some format.
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Ideally, I'd like to see it twice a week, three times tops. Why not keep Saturday as "Member Profile" Day, and designate another day as Fiction Review/member post day, and maybe one more day that focuses on newsworthy gay issues, H & J news, or something--that is to say, have regular themes for each day it's "published?" It really isn't how long it is, it's how relevant. Everyone so far seems to want it to go on, and seems to feel it doesn't need to be even six days. Once a week doesn't feel like enough to me, but twice might be.
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I read TDS every day while on my normal routine. If visiting family/friends, I get distracted and don't check in. I will most definitely miss this as part of my morning routine. Thank you, again, for the wonderful times. I liked every part of the sheet. The History, the vocabulary words, and of course the BBM news. TDS will be missed.
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I read the Daily sheet everyday, and am embarrassed that I haven't done a better job of thanking those who make it happen - so....THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH. Since I spend most of my time on only a couple threads, I really appreciate the way the daily sheet keeps me up on things, like: Jake will be on SNL, Health won an award in Australia, civil unions have been enacted in NJ, or this NBA player has said he is gay and here is the reaction.... I also really liked it when different threads are occasionally featured. After I read what's going on there, I tend to go visit them. I have some time, and would like to help, please let me know what's needed.
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Thanks to all the great editors - I read TDS every day. I have really enjoyed it and I submitted ideas for articles whenever I found something appropriate. Wish I had more to submit! Mega thanks to everyone who made TDS possible. Best to all, Rick
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TDS has affected SO many people who do not routinely post. Ex: rick-in.
Thank you, all of of you who have made it possible.
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Yeah, I read TDS every day, at least to see what's going on. I find the news items and calendars the most helpful, but I LOVE the photo-caps as well. I'm more with Monica in favor of a shorter daily version over a weekly version. When TDS gets too long on a given day, I get a bit skim-happy. But it's awesome to see what forum members, activists elsewhere, and our favorite literary and movie-makers are up to.
A big thanks to those who put work in on it. I often take it for granted. You all run it so smoothly!
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Maybe the moderators could mention each week any interesting points that have been raised recently in the threads they oversee. Sometimes I will drop in on a thread I haven't visited for a while (or ever) and discover they've been discussing something interesting and wish I'd known about it.
In its next incarnation, the Sheet should have Jackie/paintedshoes as the official Thanker who will praise the staff as needed to keep up morale. :)
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I was very sorry and sad to read yesterday's Sheet. It felt like the end of something important. I must have read nearly all of nearly every issue since it came out, and it has really made a difference to my life, the news, the jokes, the information, but most of all the feeling of belonging to a wonderful group of people, that's what TDS has nurtured. I support the 'short and sweet' approach - it's not the length, it's the keeping up of the momentum which has made a difference to me. So, more than once a week but only as long as makes sense to whoever takes it on.
And, I have posted thank-yous before, but here's another - for everyone who ever contributed in any way. Love and thanks. Chris.
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i'd sorely miss the daily sheet. i read it every day without fail. and i've been meaning to say -- yeah, NOW you tell us! -- that in fact it's been getting better over time. i think it's now a polished piece of editorial work. but since i don't have time to volunteer, i'm a bit chagrined to say, keep it up (somebody else ::)).
okay, with that said, i'd understand and accept the need to drop down to once a week, since losing it altogether would be a real loss.
i think the key to TDS is that it keeps you in touch with the basic life of the forum, the whole deal. you can get lost or confused or temporarily exasperated on individual threads.
but TDS is home, the kitchen table, the note on the refrigerator.
so, i hope a way can be found to keep it going.
suggestions? i'm amazed with the variety of items you've come up with so far, so i don't know that i can add much. the profiles are just great. love all the news items. and i do think it's important to keep up with all the creators of BBM (annie, ang, heath, jake, michelle, anne, larry, diana, etc.; these people need our continuing support in their other creative efforts). i also agree about more content from abroad, whenever that's possible.
one small way to get more submissions might be this: i'd suggest a daily contribution from forum members but -- here's the challenge -- limited to 100 words. a contributor could say anything related to brokeback, in any connection at all -- that is, we'd be given an extremely wide latitude -- story, characters but also social, sexual, personal implications and reverberations, etc. -- but you have a maximum of 100 words to say it. and the editors would put this little feature in a box each day (or if we went weekly, maybe a collection of three or four). it could even be a quote from someone else -- but the 100-word limit stands. and call the feature something simple: The Can of Beans, Broke Harmonica, Handle on the Coffee Pot. just a thought.
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I think what we need here is a forum-wide co-ordinator. A details man. Or woman.
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TDS has been,in my opinion,a minor if not major miracle.Without fail the editors have come up with interesting,thought provoking or hilarious content day after day.So a huge vote of thanks to them.They deserve it.I'd also like to say that they've been great to work with and so personal thanks and appreciation are in order here.It's been a priviledge to be involved.Thanks especially to Jan,Kathy and Marcia.
It's always been my first port of call in the forum and I know I'll miss it a lot if it goes completely but I would understand if it did.
Maybe a longer weekly one would take the pressure off and yet still keep that topical element.I know I'd really miss the updates on Annie,the boys and everything else.I hope something can be worked out to keep something going.
Janie.
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I begin each day with TDS. If I miss a day I catch up without fail the next day. If it must be once a week will be better than none at all.
TDS provides a window on dozens of things that cannot otherwise be found easily. Of particular value are the "threads of the day" or "featured threads" for they show us how significant they are. Without such notice we wouldn't know that they exist for few of us have time to go hunting.
TDS is a gauge of the vitality of the Forum itself. That it has survived as a volunteer only effort is amazing and reflects the energy generated by the film and sustained by the forum. For those of us living in relatively isolation it provides a tremendous boost!
I certainly thank all of those who have made it a success in the past and hope for others who will keep it going in the future.
JT/EDM
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I'm a lurker.....TDS has been a daily morning fix for me. It's sad to know that it wont be there anymore. Just want to thank everyone involved in the publication for all their hard work. I do understand the issues around the daily publication. I will miss it . Again, thank you.
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Writing and publishing on deadline is a ton of work and loads of pressure -- all of you who've had a hand in doing The Daily Sheet all this time deserve a huge tip of the hat! As a daily reader, I say "thanks!"
I'd agree with the notion of going weekly -- I'd enjoy seeing recaps of hot news on the forum from the week, with a feature and some of the fun stuff you do thrown in for good measure. The key element -- keeping it going as an important tool in keeping us all together!
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Whew... I agreed with some trepidation a couple weeks ago to submit a member profile of myself. I was about to send it in today and now there's no Daily Sheet! So the good news is I can maintain my anonymity. The bad news is... there's no Daily Sheet.
Don't throw it away!! I'm planning to do at least a weekly sheet after this weekend and some "ready-made" copy will be helpful. :)
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It's been encouraging that in just two days, there have been so many expressions of support and so many good suggestions for changes! As the newest editorial staffer and the only editor for now, I do plan to start with a weekly edition but depending on how much input we can get, hopefully it can expand to a three-times-a-week format.
We do need some kind of forum coordination because of this forum's size and its variety. All of us have lives outside the forum, many of us have jobs -- some more than one! -- and plenty of newsworthy items, good posts and artwork are bound to get overlooked when TDS gets put together. Most of us have favorite areas of the forum to visit, and it would really help if people could PM the editor with links when they run across something that stands out.
Anyone here who has particular likes or dislikes -- things that you always look for in the Daily Sheet or things that you always just skip, ho-hum.... that will all be helpful to know about. We had been in the process of revamping the Forum Footnotes to be less standardized, and I plan to go on doing that.
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In its next incarnation, the Sheet should have Jackie/paintedshoes as the official Thanker who will praise the staff as needed to keep up morale. :)
Why, thank you, chapeaugris. ;) :D
I am as guilty as anyone in not praising the hard work that all the Daily Sheet staff have put in. I took it for granted, and I'm sorry. :-\ I sincerely hope we do not lose this fine publication.
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Just wanted to add, BBM and gay-issues stories/news notes from foreign members would be very welcome and would give us more perspective. Doesn't have to be huge to be of value to the large gay/lesbian readership. For example, a friend of mine in Australia wrote to tell me that BBM had won hands down in a poll of best movie in 2006. We all want to know things like that.
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As a relative newcomer to the forum, I just want to add my congratulations on a job well done, and my hope that TDS continues, in whatever form works best for those who devote their time and energy to put it together. I always found it both entertaining and informative, and used it as something of a guideline to help me decide where I wished to lurk next. ;)
I particularly liked the holiday edition, featuring the lovely story that was posted, and the references to other holiday-themed items. Also enjoy the photo captions, the member profiles, and the fic reviews, plus the reprint and synopsis of news articles from various sources, and the efforts to follow the exploits of those who created this incredible story.
Kudos to all who worked so hard to create such a special publication.
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I like knowing what is going on in the threads that I don't get to read much, so maybe moderators could send in a "highlights of my thread" once a week or something?
Also is there a way we could turn the daily sheet into something people pay for, so we can pay our editors and writers a little bit? Or get more advertising for it? Like Bloggers do?
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I've been away for a few days so I've been a bit overwhelmed getting caught up on everything. Many thanks for all the kind words--they are greatly appreciated. :) And if you sent me a PM or email, never fear, I will get back with you. It just may take me a little while. :-[
I want to quickly address a few of the issues that were brought up and then I will fade into the background so that this great discussion can continue. ;)
I've always felt very keenly the fact that this is an international forum. I tried very hard to keep the news from becoming too American-centric. But, as BBM was an American film and all the principals involved in it live in the U.S., it can be difficult to get away from the American focus. That's where having an international editing team was very helpful. Elle, being in South Africa, often found different stories than I did and she brought a different perspective to TDS than I did. And I always gratefully accepted leads on non-U.S. stories. Actually, I gratefully accepted leads on any stories, lol. :D So please continue to send in those leads to Marcia.
BB_1, you hit the nail on the head the first time out. Great observation.
DeTina, great suggestion that mods send "highlights of my thread" to editor(s). Perusing all the threads to come up with a Post of the Day is very time-consuming. I've done it and found it impossible to keep up. Also, part of the reasoning behind only providing a part of the post was to whet the readers appetite to click on the link to read the full post and, hopefully, check out the rest of the thread.
R&R, we did cover the Australian story you mentioned. It was in last Thursday's TDS. http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=20142.msg740275#msg740275
One last thought: It would be great to have more male editorial representation on TDS.
Carry on. ;)
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TDS has been totally professional and I am so appreciative to be associated with it...even just as a reader. I have always thought that it was designed to burn through volunteer editors because it was so professional and so well done. Thanx! to everyone who has helped over the months. For someone like me who just can't be involved on many of the threads, having someone there at TDS to bring it all together has been invaluable. And since I'm newly admittedly gay, much of my information about the larger gay world out there comes through TDS articles. Without TDS in some form the whole experience will be much less for me. I don't have any solutions, just hope we come up with something we can all support and live with.
Bobby
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I, too, feel tremendous guilt that in my previous post I failed
to mention how much I appreciated all the hard work that goes
into putting TDS together. In the beginning, perhaps, I didn't
understand this, but after awhile it began to dawn on me that
TDS wasn't done by waving a magic wand, but by the sheer hard work
of everyone involved. So, a huge belated hug and thank you to you all.
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TDS was never tedious.
(...goes to read the rest of the posts.)
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I, for one, know how much work is put into TDS each day. Having said that, and reading that nearly every post here has responded that they pretty much liked TDS the way it's been, why not find a way to keep it five days a week with a weekend edition? (Not saying that changes/additions could be made within that context.)
asianguy says:
I'm a lurker.....TDS has been a daily morning fix for me. It's sad to know that it wont be there anymore. Just want to thank everyone involved in the publication for all their hard work. I do understand the issues around the daily publication. I will miss it . Again, thank you.
Because we're at a bump in the road, here, or crossroads, this doesn't mean TDS has to go away, but let's see if there's a way to keep it up!
I agree with Jeff Hanna's post:
A bit of a shock to read that we will not have our Daily Sheet for the rest of the week, and that the frequency of its appearing may change: I have looked forward eagerly to reading it virtually every day since I came on the forum last Spring. HUGE thanks to everyone who has contributed. It has made our forum seem more "professional" and substantial.
That's my feeling, I enjoyed it day by day.
So, I agree with planetgal's post:
I'm more with Monica in favor of a shorter daily version over a weekly version.
...if necessary, I would add.
And some of JT/EDM's observations are terrific:
I begin each day with TDS. If I miss a day I catch up without fail the next day.
TDS provides a window on dozens of things that cannot otherwise be found easily. Of particular value are the "threads of the day" or "featured threads" for they show us how significant they are. Without such notice we wouldn't know that they exist for few of us have time to go hunting.
TDS is a gauge of the vitality of the Forum itself. That it has survived as a volunteer only effort is amazing and reflects the energy generated by the film and sustained by the forum. For those of us living in relatively isolation it provides a tremendous boost!
I certainly thank all of those who have made it a success in the past and hope for others who will keep it going in the future.
In one area someone posted some of their likes and dislikes, I am an opposite opinion of one thing, so I'll mention it--"I do like the cowboy words and phrases section -- it's given me inspiration for some photo captioning posts."
And doggedstrength writes some things we all agree with:
i'd sorely miss the daily sheet. i read it every day without fail. and i've been meaning to say -- yeah, NOW you tell us! -- that in fact it's been getting better over time. i think it's now a polished piece of editorial work. but since i don't have time to volunteer, i'm a bit chagrined to say, keep it up (somebody else).
i think the key to TDS is that it keeps you in touch with the basic life of the forum, the whole deal. you can get lost or confused or temporarily exasperated on individual threads.
I especially agree with his poetic pronouncement:
...but TDS is home, the kitchen table, the note on the refrigerator. So, i hope a way can be found to keep it going.
Maybe TDS could be thought of as a magazine or newspaper and that each day could be a different section of that magazine. Breaking news or announcements at the top and then each days section. Just a thought, but as you can see from the replies, TDS is something special as it was, and hope will be.
With much appreciation,
Lyle
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Even though I am pretty much over my obsession with Brokeback Mountain and moved on a bit, (but it will always be in my thoughts, heart, the love of the music and the terrible crush I have on Ledger's Ennis Del Mar--not Ledger himself), I will miss the Daily Sheet as I checked-in on it every day. I rarely read the forum now as I think all that has been said, has, many times over. But I am so grateful to this forum for helping me "cope" with the profound emotional response I and many others had with this story and film when I needed it so much. And I learned so much about the music. The Daily Sheet was a sweet reminder of something that has touched me deeply and a wonderful source of information. I enjoyed the bios of members on the weekend. Maybe it can come back on a limited basis. Bi-weekly or weekly.
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Reading each new edition of TDS has been a daily occurence for me for as long as TDS has been in existence. My heartfelt thanks to all those who have kept it the very readable, newsworthy daily update function that it has played for its entire existence. Even more personal thanks are to those who have seen fit to focus on items that I have acquired and have desired to share with others. The member profiles have always been a feature that I have read quite consistently. As much as I would love to see it continue on a daily basis, I fully understand how great a task that is. I will be an avid reader of TDS in whatever format it turns into. I just don't want to log onto the forum one day and find that it no longer exists. I'd love to help out!
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I would hate to see the Daily Sheet disappear. I just want to let the volunteers who have put in so much time and effort know that I enjoy visiting TDS every day. I send Kudos and my appreciation to them for their hard work. Even though I don't login and comment much, I visit DC daily to see what's up. Unfortunately my life is too full and busy, like so many others, that I can't volunteer. even if TDS is reduced to once or twice a week, or less, or even eliminated, I'll still be coming to DC to see whats up. I love the BBM community.
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The idea of area moderators sending a post/discussion of the week is really really good. My additional suggestion would be that in areas moderated by more than one person, they could send in ideas on alternate days/weeks.
Could I vote for continuing to post PCs of the day, on any day it's published??? I admit to being totally non-objective about that!
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I'm really going to miss daily TDS. Reading it was the first thing i did every morning. I appreciate the effort put from those involved and all the hard work that is needed on daily basis. And it is for sure a one time-consuming thing to do everyday. Having said that i would say that i wouldn't mind a bit longer TDS twice a week if it seems to be more feasible a plan under the circumstances.
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Yeah, please keep the rhythm going! ;)
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Daily sheet will be sorely missed. I wish to thank all of the people who have put their time, love, dedication and effort to it. For me TDS doesn't come in the mornings, it's my afternoon delight to be read with my afternoon coffee just before I leave from work. I have admired the amount of work people put into it but sadly never taken enough time to express it, something I really regret.
Daily sheet has been witty and charming, but it has also created a sense of community, member profiles have been fantastic read and I have loved the Photo caption of the day and hints about different threads and memorable posts... As a European it has also provided a refreshingly unorthodox look into American discussion and culture. Where else would I have found the Cowboy-English-Cowboy dictionary?
That being said I welcome the one-twice weekly Daily Sheet and promise here, in presence of these witnesses to be more supportive than I have been in the past.
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Daily sheet will be sorely missed. I wish to thank all of the people who have put their time, love, dedication and effort to it. For me TDS doesn't come in the mornings, it's my afternoon delight to be read with my afternoon coffee just before I leave from work. I have admired the amount of work people put into it but sadly never taken enough time to express it, something I really regret.
Daily sheet has been witty and charming, but it has also created a sense of community, member profiles have been fantastic read and I have loved the Photo caption of the day and hints about different threads and memorable posts... As a European it has also provided a refreshingly unorthodox look into American discussion and culture. Where else would I have found the Cowboy-English-Cowboy dictionary?
That being said I welcome the one-twice weekly Daily Sheet and promise here, in presence of these witnesses to be more supportive than I have been in the past.
Whut he said! I think we need something even if its only twice weekly!
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Whut he said! I think we need something even if its only twice weekly!
I second that in every respect!
Please keep the good work coming, even if it's not every day!
Pleeeeeaaaassseeeee! ;)
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TDS is/was such an awesome achievement. It is especially great if you have time away from the forum. I hate to think of it being seen as a thankless task or becoming a slog to maintain. In preference to abandonning it completely, I'd go with a weekly sheet, or bi-weekly if one of them was a member profile, as has been suggested, or a peice already written by a forum member that was ready to roll without much input from an editor. We might have to get used to a different type of sheet - trouble is, we've been well & truly spoiled so far!
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i love tds. i'd love to be able to contribute more, but i'm at the limit time-wise, so i can onyl say how greatful i am to the editors since i don't have the right to ask the to continue. but of course, i would be happy if they did ;)
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They say you only miss something when it's gone, and I am really missing the Daily Sheet this week. That sounds churlish when I can't offer to do anything except write the odd article etc. because my life is very busy already, but I am greatful for all the work that has gone into this, and i do hope you are able to save it in some form.
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TDS is/was such an awesome achievement. It is especially great if you have time away from the forum. I hate to think of it being seen as a thankless task or becoming a slog to maintain.
It certainly hasn't been drudgery! The main issue is really just the amount of time it takes to compile stories, edit them and get them formatted. If anyone hasn't been thanked enough over the last year, it's probably our formatters and proofreaders.
What we're doing this week is trying to get a sense of what the readership wants from TDS, and the support has certainly been heartening. Just a general message to those saying they don't have time to volunteer - I know that isn't possible for everyone but you can help out more than you realize by sending in tips and links to interesting stories you run across, including items in the forum itself. They don't have to be written up if you don't have time; just a link and a few sentences about what the topic is would be fine. Several of the stories I've done over the past few months have come from that kind of tip.
The suggestions about moderators sending in highlights of the threads they manage are also good ones. Quite a lot of the time it takes to compile an issue amounts to compiling stories, before you even start writing them up.
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I forget which thread I got this from, maybe Jake's eyelashes. I wrote down that he's on Letterman on February 26, Conan the 27th (not sure if it's Monday night or Tuesday night) and the Daily Show on February 28.
I would put these on the Calendar.
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I don't want TDS to disappear. I have been enjoying the photos, comments and story reviews. I wish it would stay the same.
I especially loved the marriage proposal now that is a FIRST. This so much an important part of us BBM fans reaching out to each other and learning from one another
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I have not followed TDS on a daily basis.
But, I have read every daily sheet.
I come back to this forum once in a while, and when I do, I read several at a time, not wanting to have missed anything.
For me , it is a quick way to catch up, like catching up on friends.
But I understand if it must be brought to a weekly issue.
THANK YOU SO MUCH to everyone who has worked on TDS.
Marc
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To keep this thing, and to keep it running well, IMO it will need a clear sense of direction. For everything. Not just TDS.
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To keep this thing, and to keep it running well, IMO it will need a clear sense of direction. For everything. Not just TDS.
What sort of direction would you like to see, Jack? Are you referring to the forum as a whole since you say not just TDS. What is the forum to you? To others?
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I'll do my best to answer, and thanks for the questions.
It is drifting.
IMO the entire Forum is like a machine running on autopilot. This is NOT in any way shape or form a problem caused by mods or the people working behind the scenes. You all work your butts off. But there is no clear direction. Out of sight, gears have gone out of whack leading to systemic malfunctions. When you think about them seriously, and you know what I am speaking of, these were not that bad. They were due to inexperience. Growing pains if you will. The alarming thing is that these problems were allowed to grow into what could have been a nightmare scenario. The entire system came close to burning out in the basement, with smoke invisible to most inside the house but apparent to the neighbors.
Part of the solution --and no, I'm not pointing fingers at anybody!!--caused other gears to go out. In a situation like this stopgaps will only work just so long before something else causes, or invites, a general breakdown.
What we have in front of us in the form of TDS, IMO, is a signal that a system this finely balanced cannot in the long term be maintained without a serious overhaul and DAILY MAINTAINENCE. This system needs direction and change. What's going on with TDS is a real warning, one which we ignore at our own peril. And that we includes Dave as well, this is his site, he's an author, it's a huge amount of publicity for him and his work. How many blogs have become this successfull???
I do not expect a man with a deadline to drop everything and nurture a blog, that would be plain silly, completely self defeating. Yet someone has to be--yeah, has to be--put in the position of running this on a daily basis. We are dealing with more drift every week.
What does this place mean to me, as a person and as a man?? That is not easy Monica. It's not IMDb, not just some message board. If it was I would have never bothered to post. I came here after a search which in itself made me feel silly, to find out what I could about a movie which had clobbered me. That film ripped my head apart and changed the components around. Which was another thing which made me feel silly. I joined, posted...which made me feel dopiest of all. And got back responses which mesmerised me so much that I actually answered and did NOT feel idiotic. This Forum is by and large a place which attracts the same heart, all of us were affected in one degree or the other by the same experience. And that, of course, was Brokeback Mountain. I can feel and say with many others that the honesty with which we approach each other on here is remarkable, I've formed some of the best friendships of my life, ones which will LAST. Through the catalyst which DC gave to us, I've had enormous, very good and wonderful changes go on, directly as a result of interactions with others on here.[ such as marriage, meeting AP, having the Front Range out the window to name a few...] When we bounce ideas off of each other things happen inside a LOT of us.
It is the one sole universal factor among the people here, and it is still HUGE. I got an email recently which had the words " As Brokeback passes into history..." in it, in the part where we were talking about just this thing, changes on the Forum. That caught my attention. Without BBM, what you have is a large Forum where decreasing numbers of people will simply meet occasionally to discuss things with friends. Without BB this forum has no real raison d'etre. It's the unifying factor.
Some change is necessary, yet if that change comes in a form which continually de-emphasizes the Brokeback factor as a unifying force, the whole DCF loses it's identity. Nobody has to tell me that obsessions lift and things change, nobody. I understand this---and still say that this forum's identity is it's long term strength.
In a way it has matured 'as is'. The question is this: does it try to become like everything else [almost] on the internet or does it keep its' character and build on what it IS? There is no way it will attain the number of hits it got last year and goals need to take that into account, this thing isn't going to become an alternative lifestyle google. The forum can't have it both ways, it won't work. And hands on direction is IMPERATIVE.
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Vague, Jack, very vague. Lots of claimed malfunctions, no specifics. And no definition stated as to what a malfunction is. And lack of appreciation for the fact this place has a person who founded it, sets its goals, and appoints agents to achieve those goals, which are rightly his and not ours. He does not have to be here frequently for that to happen. You may have different goals, but neither I nor you nor any but Dave are the site owner. Is that not correct?
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Are you saying we are like the sheep on BBM & need some direction to untangle us from those shilayean sheep? :D
It's likely that there will be no more things like the ad campaign, DVD campaign & the book which are huge momentum & interest generators. The BBM slash world has slowed down some too. What I never want to see is the discussions disappearing from access, even posts from way back. But anyway this is TDS-related - let's get that sorted first then maybe there is another thing to look at (or even pose to see if it warrants looking at).
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Vague, Jack, very vague. Lots of claimed malfunctions, no specifics. And no definition stated as to what a malfunction is. And lack of appreciation for the fact this place has a person who founded it, sets its goals, and appoints agents to achieve those goals, which are rightly his and not ours. He does not have to be here frequently for that to happen. You may have different goals, but neither I nor you nor any but Dave are the site owner. Is that not correct?
I don't see anyone claiming that anyone but Dave owns the Forum, but it doesn't do much good to own something if no one is interested in coming around. And I don't think Jack's points were that vague, either. I haven't been on the Forum much lately (I have the California bar exam to thank for that), but I was a little surprised to see recently created threads regarding TV shows like Lost and Amazing Race. If the Forum goes in that direction and tries to be all-inclusive, we'll be competing with dozens of other boards, no question about it. This board was (and still is, for the more part) unique. The problem is, as Jack points out, that we can move away from that uniqueness purposely, or we can move away from it without realizing it if we just let things drift and change, little by little. Either way, I think moving away from that uniqueness would be a mistake.
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I don't see anyone claiming that anyone but Dave owns the Forum, but it doesn't do much good to own something if no one is interested in coming around. And I don't think Jack's points were that vague, either. I haven't been on the Forum much lately (I have the California bar exam to thank for that), but I was a little surprised to see recently created threads regarding TV shows like Lost and Amazing Race. If the Forum goes in that direction and tries to be all-inclusive, we'll be competing with dozens of other boards, no question about it. This board was (and still is, for the more part) unique. The problem is, as Jack points out, that we can move away from that uniqueness purposely, or we can move away from it without realizing it if we just let things drift and change, little by little. Either way, I think moving away from that uniqueness would be a mistake.
My thoughts exactly.
DaveinPhilly
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I've been thinking about this topic, not really sure how to post or if it would be valuable, but Brokeback_1's post caught my eye, kind of brought me up short.
It is interesting, because long-term posters like me get somewhat razzed sometimes for the voluminious and repetive posts done, basically on topic, but too frequently. Overkill, in other words.
But, invairably, 95% or more of my posts are in some way, shape of form directly related to Brokeback Mountain-the book; the film; the author; the filmmakers; the characters; and the impact.
I think it is nifty that we as posters have grown enough to actually evolve real-life relationships with one another in a number of cases; and also grow close enough on line to share other interests, such as cooking; dating stories; general fine arts discussions; and the like.
But I have to remind myself that the purpose, the heart of this Forum is about the tragic experience of two fictional characters that was expressed and portrayed realistically enough to draw all genders, orientations and stations in life into one forum. There is a larger purpose outside of the people here, and it relates to both a monumentally important social issue, along with the most private of personal business.
For these two such critical twains to meet in a forum that encompasses so many 'types' of people is a bit mind-boggling to me, and I sincerely hope we are in fact not losing sight of the original purpose of the Forum. That would indeed bring us from the profound to the mundane faster than the sun flashing on a tire iron-the more sinister purpose of which is something we ought never allow to be forgotten..
:)
If I could help this more forward within its framework, within the range of my limited skills, I'd be happy to.
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I am in total agreement CSI.
It was/is Brokeback that brought us altogether, but the friendships and understanding that this forum has engendered is a very profound thing, and is in many ways to be celebrated.
We have in our own little way dealt homophobia a blow that it had coming to it, and maybe, just maybe, have done a little something to prevent what happened to our heroes being replicated in real life.
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I am in total agreement CSI.
It was/is Brokeback that brought us altogether, but the friendships and understanding that this forum has engendered is a very profound thing, and is in many ways to be celebrated.
We have in our own little way dealt homophobia a blow that it had coming to it, and maybe, just maybe, have done a little something to prevent what happened to our heroes being replicated in real life.
I so like this thought. AND I'm very much in agreement. Well said, jano.
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Boy, that is so critical to the spirit of this forum, Janjo. If I may digress..I was invited to visit with one of our execs, his husband, and their adopted baby girl at work today, and as I opened up his baby book in the cafe, as a few people gathered to admire the baby and the beautiful dads, I found myself almost in tears..I could not stop thinking about all of the men on this forum who have been deprived of that moment by time, circumstance, fear, heartbreak-none of it called for, necessary or humane in any sense of the word.
I looked at them, and could only bleed inside for what I know must've been their struggles to get to this point.
I also found myself gettin kinda pissed at homophobia, all over again.
God help us if we ever lose sight of this wonderful springboard to community that this Forum has become! And it is political by virtue of being about humanity..so I hope we never lose sight of the societal implications of what we do here, every day.
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I don't know that there is any easy answer to the question of what do we include, and what do we exclude.
I can't say that the idea of threads devoted to Survivor and other TV shows does a thing for me. But then, I'm utterly uninterested in chat threads. I think this makes me the exception, and I wouldn't want those who have made this one of their communties to lose a place to expand on those friendships. But perhaps such a thing should be considered--purge the Forum of the majority of non-Brokeback related threads, the non-support ones that are just yet another place to "talk" to the same posters. Who knows--maybe a few of us might carry these friendships forward into our everyday lives instead! Certainly threads like Auntie's Diner have become an institution, and should remain. But many of the others could go. Or at least, be allowed to take their chances, and see if they stick, with new OT threads being discouraged. It's a thought.
The thing is that while what we have all gotten from Brokeback Mountain will hopefully remain a cherished part of our lives forever, it IS a movie, and a story, and as such does not continue. Eventually, we will all move on. This is natural and probably healthy. There is nothing to be ashamed of if Ennis and Jack do not always hold the same importance for us that they did last year or today.
That said, the time for farewells is not yet. Let's see what we can do to make it a better place, and, yes, perhaps, a more strictly Brokeback place.
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Hi. I'm glad to see we've had so much interst in this thread.
I apologize for my absence, but I'm afraid I was caught off guard--the resignations came out of the blue, with just a few days' notice, just as I was about to leave town for a week on assignment in New Orleans (more on that later), with almost no web access. (I got lucky for an hour at the Times-Picayune Friday afternoon.)
I suggested this thread before I left, and hoped for a lively response, but was not able to begin reading it tonight. (I returned to Denver last night, fairly exhausted, and a lot of catching up to do on a lot of fronts.)
I will weigh this weekend, once I have a chance to read.
I have always thought TDS was a great idea--one of those I immediately thought "Why didn't I think of that?" when it was suggested. I have loved the way it has grown and gotten better looking over time, and I'm grateful to all the volunteers who have logged countless hours making it happen. I sure hope we can keep it going in some capacity.
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FYI, if anyone is interested in an early dispatch on my N.O. trip, check out this blog from The Dart Society, the organization that sent me down: http://www.dartcenter.org/mission_possible/index.html -- they should have more soon, including some photos i uploaded this afternoon.
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i plunged in reading on the last page of the thread and was struck by some thoughts on what the forum should NOT be. i actually think that the breadth of ideas you can find here is one of our strengths.
and no one has the time to peruse it all, but i don't think you have to. this passage struck me:
. . . but I was a little surprised to see recently created threads regarding TV shows like Lost and Amazing Race. If the Forum goes in that direction and tries to be all-inclusive, we'll be competing with dozens of other boards, no question about it.
we actually started our first thread on survivor, amazing race and other reality shows on February 27, 2006: http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=1396.0
i believe we're on our third thread for each now (third season of each since we've been going.) brokeback is a film and a lot of people who like discussing film like discussing other forms of pop culture, hence the Arts & Entertainment section which is nearly as old as the forum.
it may be new to you, but it is not a new direction for the forum by any stretch. one thing i have always liked about the forum is that there are a lot of different areas for a lot of different tastes. some of them have little to no appeal to me (eg, the jake & heath adoration threads with bothered out TDS editors so much), so i don't spend time there. other areas, i am much more active. (particularly the arts threads.) we can all enjoy the ones we want to.
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OK, i've read the whole thread, and i am overjoyed to see all the support, and all the good ideas.
it would be great if we could keep it at least 2-3 days a week.
and again, i'd like to thank everyone who has been involved in running it from the beginning, starting with jan and ellen conceiving of it and creating it, all the copy editors and formatters and technical people, and editors, writers, columnists, guest writers and people who sent in tips. (am i forgetting whole categories of people? i'm always terrified to do that because i'll inevitably forget someone.) also thanks to everyone i have not mentioned (and feel free to point them out so that i can add them.)
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In time past there was a position on this forum which no longer exists. The person in that position encouraged and gave a bit of praise to the people who were working their butts off for TDS. I don't think that happens now. You end up feeling demoralised.
That position is necessary. The owner of the Forum has too many irons in the fire to run this thing on a daily basis, and the people who keep it going deserve to have their work acknowledged. It's an enormous volume of work to do on an unpaid volunteer basis.
that's definitely true. that sudden departure left a void. i have been trying ever since to find the right person to fill it, but it's going to take a huge time committment and a huge level of trust. i was burned badly the last time on the trust issue and am going to be very careful. and we don't really have the resources to pay someone. so it's going to be a challenge, but i have been working on it. there is one person i think would be perfect--we'll have to see. (nothing imminent, though, i'm sorry to report.)
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i'm leery of this discussion getting a bit off track, though. we can talk about the forum as a whole and its direction and oversight somewhere--(i think we have a thread or two for that; maybe we'll have to create or revive one)--but this thread is designed to discuss TDS and i think we need to keep it on that track for all the people coming here to discuss it.
thanks.
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i'm leery of this discussion getting a bit off track, though. we can talk about the forum as a whole and its direction and oversight somewhere--(i think we have a thread or two for that; maybe we'll have to create or revive one)--but this thread is designed to discuss TDS and i think we need to keep it on that track for all the people coming here to discuss it.
Amen, Dave, and thanks.
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Wasn't there a thread about a year ago called "Where do we see this forum in a year" or something like that? Maybe it should be revived.
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My only personal involvement with TDS (other than reading it) has been in the form of guest fic reviews. If doing more reviews would be a help, I'd make time for them. If the PTB and the members decide on a weekly format, I don't think that would be a bad thing (but the name would have to change ;D )
I've PMed Cyn about continuing with the fanfic reviews, though haven't heard from her. But in any event, we can use other coverage about fanfiction, like interviews with authors. Or highlighting any articles you can find on fanfiction generally, though these are somewhat hard to come by.
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Some of the remarks here about where the forum should be going can certainly be expanded on in another thread, but let's do give some attention to how we can apply them to TDS.
The impact of the film and story is what brought all of us here, and I'd like to see this reflected in TDS more. A reality that we have to deal with is that any movie, book, play is the focus of intense public attention only for a time and then "passes into history". Which is unfortunate phrasing as it suggests being forgotten but actually it's only the more memorable works of art that become history; others get forgotten quite easily.
A project that could be valuable to both TDS and the forum is if someone would undertake to compile classic posts, conversations, unusually sharp insights, from throughout the forum's history. As we all know, there are thousands of posts now, and IMO some of the coverage of the forum itself in TDS needs to reflect that. A look at posts from a year to 15 months ago would also yield links to reviews of the film, some of which are still relevant.
Other BBM-related news surfaces occasionally that's more recent. The film has already made enough "Top Movies" lists and both the film and story are starting to surface as subjects for study in schools.
And IMO, an emphasis on gay issues, gay history, gay-related stories generally is something that just belongs in this forum and its newsletter.
Just the $.02 that first comes to mind here - if anyone has some suggestions as to how the recent discussion about the forum direction can specifically apply to TDS, I'd like to hear them.
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Hi! All:
I'm one of those that has been featured several times in TDS (re: my Brokeback Mountain Lovesick Diet thread), and it really helped my self esteem...although I could share it with only a few off of the forum. So, thanx! for that, and please realize how important it is for 'a minute of fame.'
I want to also add that the minute I stray from couching what I post in terms of Brokeback Mountain, I seem to lose the connection between the movie and everything that we talk about here...our lives are indelibly impressed with the movie now.
This movie is a watershed movie...it's history as a catalyst for change is still being written at this time. The impact it has had was poignant for many, but most poignant it seems for those of us who are older (Jack and Ennis' ages) who lived through lives of homophobia that we see remnants of around us now, but we are living in a world of change. I even see hope in subtle changes in the straight-laced Mormon Church I belong to...and anticipate greater changes in the future when the Church decides to really follow Christ.
The TDS brings all of this together for us, what is happening here on the Forum and what is happening out there in RL, so it must remain in some form. I've been truly impressed by the professionalism...damn hard to beat anywhere!
At the same time, perhaps it's possible to find within all of this a continuing compelling reason to come here and be involved...in addition to the lifelong friendships we are forging. At one time, early last year, there was talk of a Brokeback Foundation that we might establish and be a part of...an organization that could be a greater catalyst for change...and would attract those who come to Brokeback Mountain on a weekly basis...finding over and over again how life changing it is. Such a Foundation could live on and change lives of quiet desperation into lives of productive growth. I'm not re-proposing it...just wanting to think about something perhaps we could own, as commited Brokies, that has grown from our commitment to each other here on the Forum. For those people...who need a place like the Forum on a continuing basis over a very long time. I think we do need to think and talk long and hard about what we can do with what we have to keep it fresh and vital as it grows from the soil of Brokeback Mountain. The 'soil' found there is soul soil...food for change in a world that needs it so much.
My life will NEVER be the same because of Brokeback Mountain and what I've found here on the Forum. My life is still such a struggle that I can't be a lot of help to anyone, while I'm trying to find my way with my family, friends, and church after the changes in me over the last year.
Don't forget...the stories that will be shared in Beyond Brokeback...the Impact of a Film...will take everything to a new dimension as people can hold in their hand and read over and over what is printed in our book. It will draw more people to the Forum, it will regenerate us here to greater discussion and the impact will just grow around the world. Let's do whatever we need to here to keep it vital and fresh for those who will surely come (reminds me of another wonderful movie...if you build it....)
I've grown to love so many of you here and hope we can just continue to make the Forum, the movie, the book, the new friendships a special focus in our busy lives. I think the blessings will continue to flow.
Love ya'll,
Bobby
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Some of the remarks here about where the forum should be going can certainly be expanded on in another thread, but let's do give some attention to how we can apply them to TDS.
The impact of the film and story is what brought all of us here, and I'd like to see this reflected in TDS more. A reality that we have to deal with is that any movie, book, play is the focus of intense public attention only for a time and then "passes into history". Which is unfortunate phrasing as it suggests being forgotten but actually it's only the more memorable works of art that become history; others get forgotten quite easily.
A project that could be valuable to both TDS and the forum is if someone would undertake to compile classic posts, conversations, unusually sharp insights, from throughout the forum's history. As we all know, there are thousands of posts now, and IMO some of the coverage of the forum itself in TDS needs to reflect that. A look at posts from a year to 15 months ago would also yield links to reviews of the film, some of which are still relevant.
Other BBM-related news surfaces occasionally that's more recent. The film has already made enough "Top Movies" lists and both the film and story are starting to surface as subjects for study in schools.
And IMO, an emphasis on gay issues, gay history, gay-related stories generally is something that just belongs in this forum and its newsletter.
Just the $.02 that first comes to mind here - if anyone has some suggestions as to how the recent discussion about the forum direction can specifically apply to TDS, I'd like to hear them.
thanks, that was great. i agree with all of that.
and i think some of the classic-posts research was done by the book people--though only one aspect of it, but it's a good start.
and i think we need to keep in mind that we're always serving two different audiences on this forum (and with TDS): recent arrivals and old hands. (of course we can bifurcate the audience many other legit ways, and should, but that's one crucial distiction i have seen come up again and again over time.)
some of the key differences between those:
newer members have often just found us and been dying to discuss the film with people, sometimes to learn about things that are second nature to us, and/or discuss things that some of us feel beat to death. (eg, there is no way on earth i can have one more discussion about "Were They Gay?"--and god, please don't use that as an opening to discuss it in this thread.) but we have this discussion among the mods all the time: Some people have never found anyone to have that discussion and are excited to have found us and want to. of course that's one example, and there are a million. but the newer people tend to be at a different place, and in general, have a more voracious appetite for all things brokeback. many of us old hands do to, but others have sort of talked that out and tend to be more interested in non-brokeback and/or brokeback-related than brokeback-centric discussions. (eg, they may be gay or gay-friendly, and really attuned to those issues. or they may be really into film, and want to discuss that most of all.)
my point is that we need to be aware of both audiences (and everyone in between), respect both, and cater to both. we always need to keep in mind that we are feeding the appetites of people on both ends of that spectrum, as well as those in between.
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Nice to hear from the head honcho. ;)
By the way, since the TDS isn't active this week, I thought I'd throw this
tidbit in. (Even though it may not interest Dave - ha!)
There's a very nice interview with Michelle Williams in the current
issue of VOGUE. The one with Jennifer Hudson on the cover.
Turns out Michelle and Heath are planning to live in London for the next few
months while he works on BATMAN and she does her own film. Also she
comments on their meeting while working on BBM i.e. how he took care of
her (after her fall during filming of the toboggan scene) and she went from her
crutches to Heath's arms. I mean, isn't that sweet?
And yes, I really mean, sweet. No cattiness. I really wish the best for these two.
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Wasn't there a thread about a year ago called "Where do we see this forum in a year" or something like that? Maybe it should be revived.
yes, that's one of the ones i was thinking about (i lose track of them). i think it was while we were doing the re-org last summer. i'll see if someone can find it.
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One of the things I always liked about TDS was the way that really good "Photo caps of the day" were shown again. In fact it took me months to discover photocaps, and even longer to discover how to do them!
I think perhaps the best photocap, and the best posting of the previous day, helps to keep us all striving for excellence in the hope that one day we might be "chosen," as well as introducing us to threads we didn't know about.
In relation to Dave's posting, (Morning Boss!), there are millions of people out there who have neither seen this film, or read the short story, and it is quite possible that there will be newmembers wanting to discuss both for many, many, years to come. This is truly a lasting work of art and we need to bear that in mind.
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i think some of the classic-posts research was done by the book people--though only one aspect of it, but it's a good start. . . and i think we need to keep in mind that we're always serving two different audiences on this forum (and with TDS): recent arrivals and old hands. (of course we can bifurcate the audience many other legit ways, and should, but that's one crucial distiction i have seen come up again and again over time.)
some of the key differences between those:
newer members have often just found us and been dying to discuss the film with people, sometimes to learn about things that are second nature to us, and/or discuss things that some of us feel beat to death. (eg, there is no way on earth i can have one more discussion about "Were They Gay?"--and god, please don't use that as an opening to discuss it in this thread.) but we have this discussion among the mods all the time: Some people have never found anyone to have that discussion and are excited to have found us and want to. of course that's one example, and there are a million. but the newer people tend to be at a different place, and in general, have a more voracious appetite for all things brokeback. many of us old hands do to, but others have sort of talked that out and tend to be more interested in non-brokeback and/or brokeback-related than brokeback-centric discussions. (eg, they may be gay or gay-friendly, and really attuned to those issues. or they may be really into film, and want to discuss that most of all.)
There are still some good "How Brokeback affected me" stories out there, but I'd definitely want to avoid duplicating the book. And I would hesitate to re-open the "were they gay?" or "quit/don't quit" brouhahas all over again! However, there are thousands of other posts relating to the movie and original story both, as well as the history of the movie itself - e.g., the production, evolution of the screenplay, awards and the Oscar snub. And IMO "classic posts" or "classic forum moments" should certainly include the Variety ad.
I'd like some suggestions about including these newest members. Certainly discussion of the film and book are essential to the character of the forum, and we need to incorporate that more.
my point is that we need to be aware of both audiences (and everyone in between), respect both, and cater to both. we always need to keep in mind that we are feeding the appetites of people on both ends of that spectrum, as well as those in between.
We certainly do, and now is the time to figure out how that should translate into what TDS role is in it.
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I would hesitate to re-open the "were they gay?" or "quit/don't quit" brouhahas all over again!
Marge, i'm glad to have contributed to this discussion about TDS and am heartened that we're having it. my reaction to the above excerpt from your post may seem like a minor matter, but i don't think so. while i tend to agree that the question "were they gay?" no longer has much urgency, the "did jack quit ennis?" thread is no "brouhaha" but a potent, valuable, ongoing discussion that from time to time seems to languish and then suddenly kicks back to life -- sparking new and refreshed insights. those quit/no quit discussions are among the most valuable i've read and participated in on the forum. we need to be careful not to toss out crucial babies along with some admittedly cloudy bathwater. just a note of caution as our discussion of TDS seems to raise questions about the forum's entire function and future.
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I agree that if a point continues to be subjected to debate, it has value, and is serving as a lightning (Flat) rod for people who are interested; concerned; in turmoil; and seeking answers-or even the right questions. To me that is very much part of the basic spirit of this Forum.
I was thinking maybe we could do something along the lines of having the grammatically skilled and trusted members of the forum take turns summarizing the major points of discussions in certain threads each week, to highlight a current discussion question I myself had, for example: There is a chat going on regarding the possible motivations for Ennis being exposed to Earl. It takes us back to the era and the place, and in a way, to what might be behind destructive rural homophobia, and it has already covered quite a lot of ground in just a few posts...? Just an example of how this could be valuable in a sociological context, as well.
Just a thought.
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The Daily Sheet has been a fine way to start the day. Cup of coffee... Piece of The Daily Sheet. With the oldest laptop in existence, it has been a leisurely morning walk for me.
But I also see a WEEKLY sheet as a viable replacement and the open door to new threads.
Three possible new threads:
(1) One devoted specifically to Annie Proulx's getting the Nobel Prize. The intricates steps involved have already been laid out, but remain somewhat hidden under the thread devoted to her in general. This is a magnificent project. Of major literary proportions.
(2) One about the real, live BBM stage play that has emerged in The Netherlands. Very interesting two actor production. Other versions may not be far behind. This deserves a thread.
(3) One devoted to the creation of a non-profit Brokeback Foundation for the long term study of the work and its effects. A study/retreat center up in Wyoming for such a foundation would be tangible evidence of its power. It could be the crowning achievement of this forum to help bring it about.
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while i tend to agree that the question "were they gay?" no longer has much urgency, the "did jack quit ennis?" thread is no "brouhaha" but a potent, valuable, ongoing discussion that from time to time seems to languish and then suddenly kicks back to life -- sparking new and refreshed insights. those quit/no quit discussions are among the most valuable i've read and participated in on the forum. we need to be careful not to toss out crucial babies along with some admittedly cloudy bathwater.
Glad to hear that! When can I expect an article from you about one of these discussions? ;D
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I was thinking maybe we could do something along the lines of having the grammatically skilled and trusted members of the forum take turns summarizing the major points of discussions in certain threads each week, to highlight a current discussion question I myself had, for example: There is a chat going on regarding the possible motivations for Ennis being exposed to Earl. It takes us back to the era and the place, and in a way, to what might be behind destructive rural homophobia, and it has already covered quite a lot of ground in just a few posts...? Just an example of how this could be valuable in a sociological context, as well.
We've had "threads of the day" and "posts of the day" but IMO we can be covering interesting threads related to the story and film a lot more consistently than we have been. Can you send me a summary of that conversation? It would be a good place to start.
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The suggestions about moderators sending in highlights of the threads they manage are also good ones. Quite a lot of the time it takes to compile an issue amounts to compiling stories, before you even start writing them up.
I kind of just assumed that was being done. I have PM'd the mods of threads a few times, with ideas for the Daily Sheet (articles, interviews etc) ;D
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I know this discussion has been going on for a while now, but I haven't had a chance to weigh in yet. I'll get right to the point and say that I would hate to see TDS totally disappear. On the other hand, I realize that putting it together on a daily basis is a huge task. I've often wondered how the editors do it, because it must be very time-consuming, but it's always so well-written and truly professional-level journalism. The Forum, in general, has been very important to me and TDS has been a large part of that. It's a terrific way to get to know other Forum members and keep up with BBM related news. If the frequency of TDS had to change to weekly, biweekly, or even monthly, that would be fine, but otherwise I think it's great as it is. I wish I could become more involved, but right now, I can't. My RL is in a state of flux (I may be relocating soon), and I just don't think it would be honorable to take on a commitment that I might not be able to follow through.
So, the upshot: I hope a TDS type publication can continue even if it's less frequent than daily. :D
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Thank you to all out-going TDS staff for your great generosity w/ your time & talent!
I always skim, if not read word for word, TDS first thing when I log onto this forum. Always find it informative. If I've been gone for awhile, I always skim the back issues.
I esp like forum recaps / attn focused on forum happenings I might not otherwise have time to be aware of.
Hope TDS can continue in some form. I see it as a kind of central, check-in, clearinghouse type of place....as well as informative & entertaining. THX again.
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I was thinking maybe we could do something along the lines of having the grammatically skilled and trusted members of the forum take turns summarizing the major points of discussions in certain threads each week, to highlight a current discussion question I myself had, for example: There is a chat going on regarding the possible motivations for Ennis being exposed to Earl. It takes us back to the era and the place, and in a way, to what might be behind destructive rural homophobia, and it has already covered quite a lot of ground in just a few posts...? Just an example of how this could be valuable in a sociological context, as well.
We've had "threads of the day" and "posts of the day" but IMO we can be covering interesting threads related to the story and film a lot more consistently than we have been. Can you send me a summary of that conversation? It would be a good place to start.
I'll give it a shot, Marge...I'm not much of an editor, anyone can tell ya that.
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What chapeaugris posted a few pages back is very true--we could use more 'foreign' news. There are lots of members outside of North America who would happily send in articles of interest to TDS readers. Some are accomplished authors themselves, the talent and perspective gained would be invaluable. For example, our Forum book is recieving a final polish in Vienna, just down the street from the Hofburg. And just a few weeks ago the new government made a coalition by reneging on the issue of gay marriage, but who here has heard about it?
Any one of them would happily send in or translate articles.
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What chapeaugris posted a few pages back is very true--we could use more 'foreign' news. There are lots of members outside of North America who would happily send in articles of interest to TDS readers. Some are accomplished authors themselves, the talent and perspective gained would be invaluable. For example, our Forum book is recieving a final polish in Vienna, just down the street from the Hofburg. And just a few weeks ago the new government made a coalition by reneging on the issue of gay marriage, but who here has heard about it?
Any one of them would happily send in or translate articles.
...and here is the one ;D ;D
as i said in my pm to marge alreday, i have a bad consciousness for not being able to offer my help daily, but i'm more than happy to submit info, translate articles etc. ! :)
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while i tend to agree that the question "were they gay?" no longer has much urgency, the "did jack quit ennis?" thread is no "brouhaha" but a potent, valuable, ongoing discussion that from time to time seems to languish and then suddenly kicks back to life -- sparking new and refreshed insights. those quit/no quit discussions are among the most valuable i've read and participated in on the forum. we need to be careful not to toss out crucial babies along with some admittedly cloudy bathwater.
Glad to hear that! When can I expect an article from you about one of these discussions? ;D
Marge, does this mean that my more modest suggestion of a 100-word-limit daily box on BBM has been rejected?
that smallscale notion dovetails with my limited availability of time to contribute, which is one reason i brought it up. i thought that others with similar time constraints might find it a short but honest way to help keep the ball rolling.
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Here's the suggestion you were referring to:
[one small way to get more submissions might be this: i'd suggest a daily contribution from forum members but -- here's the challenge -- limited to 100 words. a contributor could say anything related to brokeback, in any connection at all -- that is, we'd be given an extremely wide latitude -- story, characters but also social, sexual, personal implications and reverberations, etc. -- but you have a maximum of 100 words to say it. and the editors would put this little feature in a box each day (or if we went weekly, maybe a collection of three or four). it could even be a quote from someone else -- but the 100-word limit stands. and call the feature something simple: The Can of Beans, Broke Harmonica, Handle on the Coffee Pot. just a thought.
Yes, that's a great suggestion, and no reason it has to conflict with regular submissoins about threads. We could add "scenes" to the list of things people could write about too.
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I've refrained from talking publicly about the Forum or TDS since I left TDS back in October partly because I thought I'd had my say over the months of TDS and partly because my own life was going through turmoil. Now, though, I feel that I want to jump in here.
I'm glad to see communication on the viability of TDS. When I first suggested the idea back in April, it was to provide a quick "sheet" to highlight the goings-on in the Forum for everyone who was too busy to keep up with each thread. As you all know, Ellen and I took it further to include stories outside the Forum that we felt were pertinent to the membership. What you probably didn't know is that we begged and pleaded for help - right from the beginning. I can't even remember how many people I approached to do a column -- weekly, monthly or even whenever they wanted. Most turned us down. Writing TDS the way we were doing it back then where we had to keep up with what was going on in the threads, took us about 3-4 hrs a day -- sometimes even more.
So, while all the suggestions for stories are interesting, that isn't and never was the issue. The issue is 'What are YOU - not the other guy -- going to do to keep TDS going? And, take that one step further, "What are YOU going to do to keep the Forum going?
I don't want to hear "I'm too busy." If you have the time to hang out here, you have the time to contribute even if it is in a small way. I realize not everyone can run a project or take on a large responsibility but if enough people would contribute in a small way, then these major tasks, such as TDS, wouldn't be such a major feat to accomplish.
Yes, there a whole lot of people who do a lot here, but where are the rest of you? How much do you want TDS and the Forum to continue? Jan
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Jan's point is sound. There are many people that could help a little bit, & if most people who could do that did indeed do it, a little bit of effort is all that would be needed to produce several snippets of content for TDS (or whatever incarnation). But still there needs a core of people to co-ordinate these efforts.
For example one model could be one co-ordinator for member profiles, one for photo caps, one for international news, etc These roles do not generate the content themselves (unless they want to now & then) but source it from forum members. The role of such co-ordinators could even rotate if there were enough willing participants. They then feed it into a pre-formatted template with an editor/formattor check before it's published. If this model was successful there would hopefully always be a small pool of surplus contributions that could be pulled in if one area of contribution couldn't make its requirement.
The idea would be that everyone's involvement would be sufficiently small such that it would never become too time-consuming for anyone. Whether this could work in practice, I have no idea unfortunately. These things tend to snowball onto the shoulders of an initially willing few. :-\
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Hi! All:
I've been begging people in my community to help for a couple of decades, but what has happened is two things:
1. The same old people are here all the time and do all the work.
2. Those same old people go on and on about how much work it is, and scare others off!
I sit at my computer 7+ hours a day at work, and if I had a project, I think I might be able to get it done. But when Elle sent me a list of everything that had to be done to become an assistant to the TDS gals, there was NO way I could do that.
I'm really willing, fairly sharp, and easily directed...but in counting the cost I'd have to play a small part and see how that would work. I don't want to see the Forum waste away to nothing, or the TDS either. I'll bet we can come to a compromise and it will draw lots of us into the work...many hands make the work light.
Bobby
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Don't get me wrong...I'm not being critical of those who did TDS. They only told the truth about what the amount of work was. What I want those in charge to know is that I am willing to help do a difined job that can be done during my work day between my assignments here. I actually have lots of time, but I work in a busy office with 50 doctors, so I have to think of them first most of the time! Put me in the pot and let me know how I can help.
Love ya'll,
Bobby
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Since I read a helluva lot and seem to have some time almost daily to
check out the forum and such, I wouldn't mind keeping an eye out for
interesting tidbits that might work for TDS. i.e. anything remotely
having to do with BBM, film and short story, Annie Proulx, gay issues,
non-gay issues pertaining even obliquely to gay issues,
limited gossip re: our favorite cast, crew, director and writers,
etc, etc, etc.
Think of me as an advance scout. ;)
I post on another website and do reviews and such, PLUS work
freelance, so I don't mean to imply that I have TONS of free time.
I don't. But my schedule is fairly flexible.
Except when it isn't.
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Yes, there a whole lot of people who do a lot here, but where are the rest of you? How much do you want TDS and the Forum to continue? Jan
Really great to hear your thoughts on this Jan!
mf
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I also agree with these last several posts. I think what is scary (at least to me) was the thought of having to singlehandedly put together entire issues of TDS. That just seems overwhelming for one person, which I guess explains why the handful of people who were doing it found that is was just too much. But, dividing up the responsibilites into smaller chunks is a good idea, so that an issue of TDS would be the product of several folks rather than just one. I'd be happy to do something pertaining to Photocaps, for instance.
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Thank you - all of you - for your comments, suggestions and offers of help. They are all being read and noted by Dave and others as this situation is evaluated. Your input is greatly appreciated.
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and i think some of the classic-posts research was done by the book people--though only one aspect of it, but it's a good start.
Just realized I didn't clarify the reference to classic posts:
The book focused specifically on how people said the story, film and forum changed their lives. I've been referring to "classic posts" in a more general context. This forum has literally tens of thousands of posts now, and due to the numbers plus so many of them now being 'way back in long threads or even in archives, many people have never read them. And some who have read them months ago. One of the things I'd like people to look out for, and that I'll make an effort to search through, is memorable posts in general. I've run a few in the past few months and titled them "Forum Classics."
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^^^ Like Photocaps Greatest Hits?
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Yes, there a whole lot of people who do a lot here, but where are the rest of you? How much do you want TDS and the Forum to continue? Jan
Jan a very fine point that was made at the inception of TDS, and still relevant now.
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I would be willing to do anything I could do, I just feel as if I don't know what ways there are to contribute. Maybe if there wa smore information about who is needed and in what capacity? I'm afraid to just put myself out to volunteer without really knowing what my job will entail. I'd be happy to take up fanfic reviews of that's an area of need, as I thought I saw it was, but I'm afraid that people would expect CYN and just get me instead-- hard shoes to fill. And I don't know what other needs there are. Maybe there needs to be a sort of selection of "job ads"-- volunteer positions that are well-defined and need filling?
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***NOTICE REGARDING AOL EMAIL USERS**
The Tech Support team has received a number of requests this week regarding the fact that some users have stopped receiving their email alerts from the DaveCullen forum. It turns out all of these users were using AOL email accounts.
AOL has identified mail from davecullen.com as "over volume", and thus has blocked all email from the forum or from the davecullen server to any AOL email address. While we will pursue getting our server removed from the blocked-list, it is somewhat doubtful we will be successful getting them to respond to us. Unfortunately this is apparently a common struggle that organizations sending frequent email notifications to their members experience.
In the immediate duration, our members using an AOL Email address will not receive any PM Notifications, Thread Notifications, nor forwarded email if you have an @DaveCullen.com email address.
If you have a non-AOL email address to use, it is highly recommended that you switch to that other account. You may want to establish a free email account for this purpose.
To change your forum email address - click the Profile button at the top of every forum page, select "Account Related Settings" from the menu on the left, change the email address listed on that page -- and click the Change Profile button at the bottom of the page.
We will certainly let you know if anything changes regarding AOL's blocking of our emails, but please understand we are not optimistic in being able to get them to correct the situation.
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Glad to know it wasn't just me with this experience!!!
Thank you for posting this!!!
Rob
***NOTICE REGARDING AOL EMAIL USERS**
The Tech Support team has received a number of requests this week regarding the fact that some users have stopped receiving their email alerts from the DaveCullen forum. It turns out all of these users were using AOL email accounts.
AOL has identified mail from davecullen.com as "over volume", and thus has blocked all email from the forum or from the davecullen server to any AOL email address. While we will pursue getting our server removed from the blocked-list, it is somewhat doubtful we will be successful getting them to respond to us. Unfortunately this is apparently a common struggle that organizations sending frequent email notifications to their members experience.
In the immediate duration, our members using an AOL Email address will not receive any PM Notifications, Thread Notifications, nor forwarded email if you have an @DaveCullen.com email address.
If you have a non-AOL email address to use, it is highly recommended that you switch to that other account. You may want to establish a free email account for this purpose.
To change your forum email address - click the Profile button at the top of every forum page, select "Account Related Settings" from the menu on the left, change the email address listed on that page -- and click the Change Profile button at the bottom of the page.
We will certainly let you know if anything changes regarding AOL's blocking of our emails, but please understand we are not optimistic in being able to get them to correct the situation.
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i have some pretty exciting news.
we had a management system for the forum that was working really well for the first eight to ten months of the forum. i had two to three direct reports, and all the various volunteers--up to 60 or more at a time--reported to or up through one of them. that allowed me to operate more or less like a ceo, working with them on major issues and strategy and talking through situations with them as they developed. they, in turn, were able to supervise all the different volunteers and keep lines of communication open in both directions.
initially, it was greg and meli reporting to me, and later we added jan(pete), and then linda working with meli in a deputy role. that was pretty successful until the departures of jan and greg, for very different reasons.
since then, i have been looking for a person who can take over as Chief Projects Director, and i've had my eye on lydia/kittyhawk for quite some time. i think a lot of you know her. she's been running the book project for a year now--since the day she proposed it and began recruiting the team--and has managed about 60 volunteers over the course of that time and done a really excellent job. i've been really impressed by her wisdom and her judgement, and have been hoping for quite some time to move her up into that role. meli and linda have also been involved discussing it for quite awhile.
i had thought we would wait until the book was finished--which will be soon--but we can really use her help, so i'm pleased to announce that she has agreed to accept the position on an interim basis.
i am really excited to get back to a place where we have every part of the forum managed effectively. and if we need more people at a senior level, we'll add more positions there over time. i want everyone who works for us in any capacity to have a voice: to be able to voice their ideas and concerns and to receive the attention they need.
i am really exicted to have lydia on board. she's going to be great.
as with meli and linda on the moderating side, i have complete trust in lydia, and when she speaks, she speaks for me. consider anything that comes from any of the three of them to have the same weight as if it came from me.
d
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Thank you, Dave, for the announcement. I have worked with Lydia (kittyhawk) on the Book project since it's inception, and have absolute faith in her. I am so thrilled that she has accepted this position! Thank you, Lydia, from all of us here on the Forum! And Bless You, as you embark on what will surely not be an easy task, but one which is needed to keep this Forum thriving! :-*
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As a member, I can't think of a better and more trustworthy, commonsensical person then Lydia to fill such a position. We will all benefit from your choice, Dave. You made one helluva good one .
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Way to go, Dave! Lydia is A#1 in my book -- and aren't we lucky that she's williing to do this. Now let's rally around and give her a hand! Jan
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Lydia is a great choice! Every interaction I have had with her has been top-notch and she is a terrific asset to the Forum.
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Jack, Jackie, Jan, and Lucas, I appreciate your kind remarks.
You may live to regret them because I will most definitely ask for your help in tackling this big job.
Thanks, you all.
- Lydia
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I posted the following onth gay Bashing and the over 50 threads, but I thought it might be relevant to TDS:
The House of Representatives will soon be
considering a landmark federal hate crimes bill. This bill would
give law enforcement the tools they need to protect gay,
lesbian, bisexual and transgender individuals from hate crimes.
The Human Rights Campaign is asking all of us to contact our
Representative and urge him or her to cosponsor the Local Law
Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act. Please take action
today. Click here:
http://www.hrcactioncenter.org/campaign/hatecrimesrk=Hp2IFrM1uHMWW
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;D Yay!! Congrats Lydia! You're the greatest! :) :-*
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Congratulations Lydia.
You can call on me for help anytime.
I'm still recovering from the weekend, I just need another couple of days to get re-organized at home.
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thanks for the support on lydia, everyone. picking her was easy, talking her into it was the hard part. hehehe.
i had no idea how i was going to sway her. and then all of a sudden one night she blurted out, "ok, i'll do it." my first instinct was to race to the pc and announce it before she could change her mind.
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Thanks, Dave, and everyone.
I've survived one day in the new job and have been juggling about 2 of the 6 or 8 balls I'm supposed to juggle.
Maybe I can pick up another one tomorrow! ;)
- Lydia
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The current issue of the Daily Sheet is great, thanks Marcia! Thanks to Eyelashers lembregts, trubrokeback and UltraViolet for contributing links to Jake's tv appearances. I didn't get a chance to watch them all until last night. My husband thought I was crazy I'm sure (well he already knows it but he keeps hoping it will get better someday) :D
And thanks to all the other contributors (Rosewood, Ultraviolet again for the Zodiac reviews --) Yes I know I'm leaving some out -- I don't mean to but it's quite an impressively long list -- I was just so impressed to see how many new contributors sent interesting articles to Marge_Innavera.
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The current issue of the Daily Sheet is great, thanks Marcia! Thanks to Eyelashers lembregts, trubrokeback and UltraViolet for contributing links to Jake's tv appearances. It's true I compiled those for TDS but I didn't get a chance to watch them all until last night. My husband thought I was crazy I'm sure (well he already knows it but he keeps hoping it will get better someday) :D
And thanks to all the other contributors (Rosewood, Ultraviolet again for the Zodiac reviews --) Yes I know I'm leaving some out -- I don't mean to but it's quite an impressively long list -- I was just so impressed to see how many new contributors sent interesting articles to Marge_Innavera.
I second that, Ellen - very well done and many thanks to Marcia and the others for contributing and pulling it all together!
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I loved the DS.
I'd missed Jakes appearances on TV, now thanks to the sheet I'm on top of matters Jake...
And the kiss beating Vivian Leigh and Clark Gable of all people, is really something to behold! The world has moved, I'm sure.
Thanks again for the fine work, you are precious.
Jean
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I concur - the daily sheet looks great - it's so wonderful to have it back.
Thanks to everyone who helped to make it possible
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Wonderful edition of TDS! Thank you to all involved. I, too, had missed most of Jake's tv appearances, so I appreciate the info and links.
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And the kiss beating Vivian Leigh and Clark Gable of all people, is really something to behold! The world has moved, I'm sure.
Thanks again for the fine work, you are precious.
And now Brokeback is showing up in college workshops and classrooms! there will be a story about that in one of the next few editions. Quite a sea change from the world I was growing up in duing the 1960s - some things have changed for the better.
Thanks so much everybody, for your encouragement and verbal bouquets. :)
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?
Is it excluded from now on to see more TDS-profiles, just because of the 'sondag'e' they're starting this week?
No, it's just a delay, mostly a result of the reorganization and the mountain of material to sort out. The profiles are popular, and they'll be back.
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This is interesting. Maybe someone's already posted it. I know I could talk about it for hours.... and I'm not a media scholar.
Media Scholar to Address 'Brokeback Mountain Humor' Tuesday Night
March 4, 2007, Greencastle, Ind. - David Weiss, a media scholar and assistant professor of communications at Montana State University - Billings, will come to DePauw this Tuesday, March 6. His lecture, "Did you hear the one about the gay cowboys?: Making Sense of Brokeback Mountain Humor," will begin at 7 p.m. in Watson Forum of the Pulliam Center for Contemporary Media. The event is free and open to all.
The lecture will examine the many parodies that followed the theatrical release of Brokeback Mountain, an acclaimed, Academy Award-winning film which was directed by Ang Lee. Dr. Weiss will explore a number of questions, including: Are the parodies homophobic? Humorous? How do they reflect social constructions Movie Reel Film.jpgof and reactions to gayness in contemporary American society?
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=19031
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This is interesting. Maybe someone's already posted it. I know I could talk about it for hours.... and I'm not a media scholar.
Media Scholar to Address 'Brokeback Mountain Humor' Tuesday Night
March 4, 2007, Greencastle, Ind. - David Weiss, a media scholar and assistant professor of communications at Montana State University - Billings, will come to DePauw this Tuesday, March 6. His lecture, "Did you hear the one about the gay cowboys?: Making Sense of Brokeback Mountain Humor," will begin at 7 p.m. in Watson Forum of the Pulliam Center for Contemporary Media. The event is free and open to all.
The lecture will examine the many parodies that followed the theatrical release of Brokeback Mountain, an acclaimed, Academy Award-winning film which was directed by Ang Lee. Dr. Weiss will explore a number of questions, including: Are the parodies homophobic? Humorous? How do they reflect social constructions Movie Reel Film.jpgof and reactions to gayness in contemporary American society?
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=19031
Boy, would I love to attend to that one.
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Oh, I can just see this audience in my mind already. Billings?/ lolol
What i would do to be a fly on that wall.....
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URGENT:This is the news we've all been waiting for:
http://www.davecullen.com/brokeback/book/index.html
I'm so happy and proud I can't find the words, all I could find is the most sincere Thank You.
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URGENT:This is the news we've all been waiting for:
http://www.davecullen.com/brokeback/book/index.html
I'm so happy and proud I can't find the words, all I could find is the most sincere Thank You.
I am proud. So proud of this.
I would like to thank everyone ilvolved in person for achieving this, for making this book possible.
Love you all.
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Outstanding job!
Heartfelt thanks to everyone who worked so hard on this.
My book order is on its way.
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thank you daily sheet helpers, for doing what you do. i really enjoy and appreciate the daily sheet, and i know it's a lot of work to do it, and do it again, and again. thank you.
i especially like the news of gay rights around the states and around the world. and the slash updates. and the glimpses of parts of the forum i don't see regularly.
and the community. thanks, you all.
kj
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Thanks for all the kind comments about the book, and especially for your important idea of asking your friends to order now, Oregondoggie.
If you all want to do more book talk, discuss the book web site, etc. you might want to carry that over to The Book Project at
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=8935.1380. There are other folks over there with comments, too.
That way this thread can concentrate more on feedback to The Daily Sheet.
Thanks again for your comments. I hope it lives up to your expectations.
- Lydia
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CONGRATULATIONS
on this incredibly achievement of putting the book together
(I know what that means!)
and on continuing in such an inspired and inspiring way the DS.
I'm proud of and happy for both events!
MERCI!
:-*
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This issue of TDS had everything I look for: recollection of highpoints from past Forum activities, something about Beyond Brokeback, of course ;), some news items I hadn't heard about, something funny—with the bonus this time of being an international item, and something to put a lump in my throat. Not to mention the attractive graphics and layout. Thanks for all that.
- KittyHawk
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Excellent TDS today!
I think you have nailed down a good formula for success ;D.
Cheers,
John
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Yes, excellent TDS today! ;D :)
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I am really happy and proud to be able to join the Daily Sheet ! And now that I am "Down Under" I will get a chance to meet other Australian Brokies, find out how important Brokeback is to them, and share mine and other expats whose lives have been enriched by being a fan of this magnificent story and film.
And who knows - there is always a possibility I will get to meet Heath!
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The new TDS from March 7 is fabulous! I read it with the greatest interest and pleasure.
Congrats!
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It's great to see the positive developments here this week, with our book going to publishing and the new schedule of TDS. The enthusiasm we're seeing for the marketing (and buying) of Beyond Brokeback: The Impact of a Film is fantastic!
Reading TDS has always been one of the first things I've done every day, and being an early riser I'm often one of the first to read it.
Since TDS needs a new name, here's a suggestion to get the ball rolling........The Forum Informer.
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Alluding to the first scenes of the movie, make it:
The Brokeback Signal[/b]
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New Title:
Tell You What...
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Well, we can't use daily anymore...otherwise The Daily Impact sounded good, with reference to our book
Aaaaghghgh! This is hard! I remember how much fun we had naming the book.
How about just plain .... Wut? .... We certainly look to it regularly for wut's happening.
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;D ;D ;D
You guys are cracking me up! So many good suggestions, too! Keep it up!
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A Big Thank You for the revamped Daily Sheet, by what ever name! And kudos to all who have worked to bring it to us. I, too, am loving the naming possibilities. I don't have a creative bone in my body, so I can't think of a name myself, but, everyone else, keep up the good work!
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I second that - it's when you don't have it around every day anymore, then you miss it the most!
But I think the Monday-Wednesday-Friday solution seems a good one!
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hmmm title...how about
THE WIND
as in: "Well, look what the wind blew in!"
(I was also reading an Annie Proulx article where she talked a lot about how the wind informed much of daily life in the western plains and I thought the use of the word "informed" in terms of the wind affecting people was such a creative way to put it.)
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How about:
The Brokeback Banner
John
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My problem is that I always think of explanations...like, I'd have a longer title that would say ... The Wind - Informing Us Daily, or something like that. Loved what you said.
Bobby
hmmm title...how about
THE WIND
as in: "Well, look what the wind blew in!"
(I was also reading an Annie Proulx article where she talked a lot about how the wind informed much of daily life in the western plains and I thought the use of the word "informed" in terms of the wind affecting people was such a creative way to put it.)
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Tell You What
-
The Fix
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New title for TDS?
hm...
The Brokeback Report
All the News from Film to Print
?
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I like bb_1's idea. Quote from dialog, simple, allusive, and general enough to allow inclusion of pretty much anything there is to tell.
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Thank You lance, that was very nice of you to say.
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New Title:
Tell You What...
like this one :)
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The Brokeback Report
All the News from Film to Print
?
(hey we now have two great minds thinking alike, bb1 and Bay City John) (Hi montezumae)
all of these responses are so great, I hate to single out one but all the news from film to print really made me smile.
This thread is absolutley brightening my day. (The Fix!) LOL
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New Title:
Tell You What...
like this one :)
Oops. Sorry about that John, I didn't see that you'd done that one, too.
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Here' my idea for the new TDS name.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi146.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr258%2Fgoaboydc%2FCow-n-Calf.jpg&hash=2a24ee4b8ba845f27ef29fc1bfc3f90633b8775c)
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Oh, goaboydc...I LOVE that! We may have a winner, folks!
But, I still love "Tell You What." Arrggghhh!!!!!!
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My little suggestion, for what its worth...
Whisky Spring
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TELL YOU WHAT:
Chronicles Of a Little Cow and Calf Operation
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TELL YOU WHAT:
Chronicles Of a Little Cow and Calf Operation
Probably not only a perfect compromise, but really the IDEAL title.
I'd omit "little" & "operation" though.
Let's make it:
Tell you what
The Brokeback Cow and Calf Chronicle
That has a good rhythm to it.
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Nice work Ellen and team.
Congrats to all volunteers on the book, you all did a great job. :)
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You can always have a subheading for more boring/routine bits
The Saddle Catalog
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lmao
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You can always have a subheading for more boring/routine bits
The Saddle Catalog
LOL I love this, but I would change just one word! One man's boring is another man's -- saddle catalog.
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Yeah, I wouldn't say ''boring'' at all. If I'm interested in a particular sort of gear, there ain't hardly nuthin more interestin than a catalog of such items.
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I like Jacks's Tell you what
I've been fiddling with The Coffee Pot Gazette or The Campfire Tribune
Not sure.
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I like Jacks's Tell you what
I've been fiddling with The Coffee Pot Gazette or The Campfire Tribune
Not sure.
Jean, to be fair...it was BCJohn who first came up with that title: Tell You What. And I do like it so...thank heavens I don't have to be the final decision maker. :D
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How does "The Brokeback Mountain Times" grab you?
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Jean, to be fair...it was BCJohn who first came up with that title: Tell You What. And I do like it so...thank heavens I don't have to be the final decision maker. :D
Oh! Sorry BCJohn, thanks Jackie, I shoulda put my electric powered glasses on. ;D
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yep John thought of it too, and don't forget he said it first!
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What about "News from Brokeback Village"
And i do like the "Tell You What" and MZ's "Saddle Catalog"
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Enjoyed the Turing article in TDS today. I looked at the sites that accompany it and they do not mention two films that might be of interest to people that deal with Alan Turing. One is "Enigma" with Kate WInslet and Dougray Scott. Reviewers have said this one plays fast & loose with the facts about Turing, but is a good film nevertheless. Another,and considered better in terms of Turing, was adapted from the stage play of the same name, titled "Breaking the Code." Derek Jacoby plays Turing in this one.
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Thanks for covering the nascent campaign to get Annie Proulx The Nobel Prize for Literature. "Lynne's" hopes are justified. The long list of recipients includes writers whose works arise from social injustice. It ain't for just pure poetry!
But the site on Yahoo for The Nobel Prize (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nominate_annie/) requires a Yahoo membership... This may slow down the process. It may not happen quite yet, but it will. A dedicated thread on our site for The Nobel Prize would be a good idea, separate from the existing Annie Proulx thread.
Meanwhile, academic word of mouth will help. Our forum is an astonishingly well-connected herd. We've grazed with friends from many different flocks. This meadow is lush.
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As a suggestion, why not include the publication days (M,W and F)as a graphic design element and name it "Members Weekly Forum" or "Members Weekly Freelancer."
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi171.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu316%2Frichchanstev%2FDCFNameplateSuggestion.jpg&hash=af219b5aac7a177efa7b108461c54a06b6e1f99e)
I attach an example of this concept. The image actually belongs to "Julien-Paris, France" and was taken from the Finding Brokeback.com site.
A tag line like "Published by the members of the Dave Cullen Forum to promote the Spirit of Brokeback Mountain" could also reinforce the Mission Statement just published.
Just a thought...
Richchan
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That was a fine issue today. Lyle, I was fortunate to see Derek Jacoby as Turing in Breaking the Code on Broadway a number of years ago - riveting perrformance on his part.
As much as I'd like to see Annie Proulx nominated, I'm afraid that even with a vigorous campaign behind her, for a variety of reasons she is an unlikely Nobel winner. So many factors lie behind this, political and otherwise - most often it's given for a body of work (Faulkner, Pinter) , and brilliant as hers is, it is not copious by any stretch. Still it would be a wonderful tihng to see! Perhaps someday.
I don't think it's appropriate for me to endorse any one of the numerous new names for TDS, but suffice to say there are some great ideas!
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And a very cool marketing director is now aboard. What a ton of work she has taken on! And what a person --no, JUST the person --to do it.
Thank you for doing this huge job Ellen!
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What creative ideas for the title for our Forum newsletter! I'm enjoying reading them all.
And richchan, thanks for your ideas, not only for a title, but artwork and a tagline! A complete package, and all from a relatively new poster! Not only "Thanks!" but also "Welcome!" to you.
- KittyHawk
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I had one other new idea today. More "cowpoke" than the first: "Campfire Chronicle" or maybe "The Campfire Chronicle."
Art is shown below.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi171.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu316%2Frichchanstev%2FDCFNameplateSuggestionTwo.jpg&hash=b8730251e99d1bdc30c6e5822f1ec75ee85df0b2)
"Just thinkin outload..."
Richchan
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Apparently, the server doesn't like my IP number since my attempts to modify the above post say the session verification failed. So...I'll post the revised art in a new post. Sorry about the confusion.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi171.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu316%2Frichchanstev%2FDCFNameplateSuggestionTwo-Revised.jpg&hash=5dce01ce5ccbdc2e07ed0b83cc6ced18a41892ec)
Richchan
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We could just LEAVE the name The Daily Sheet as well...
After all, The Saturday Evening Post didn't change it's name
when it changed in various ways, ending up being just a
monthly magazine...
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Interestingly enough, one of the better stories regarding the Enigma Code and Alan Turing may be found in fiction: look for "The Cryptonomicon" by Bruce Sterling.
I won't spoil it for you but the book is - utterly fascinating.
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I don't have an opinion really, about name changes, but richchan those are some nice pix/graphics you have there, especially the most recent one. Its like Jack and Ennis are nestled in or being enveloped by the mountains (think: secure, safe). And the fire, warmth, like it represents something between them. Don't know if you intended it that way, but it comes across like that, IMO. Nice job. Even if you guys decide to keep the Daily Sheet name, it would be nice to see that graphic up somewhere on the site, it says a lot.
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LSky94
Thanks so much for your kind words about the images. That concept about the "warmth" of the fire and the embrace of the mountains is just the idea I had in designing it.
At the risk of beating a dead horse, I also altered it into an animated GIF file to further the concept. It's shown below. Unfortunately, the GIF format uses a limited color palette, so there are dithering patterns in the image used to simulate some colors so it looks a bit grainier. There is also an additional 150kb overhead resulting in longer download time. Is the effect worth it? I don't know...
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi171.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu316%2Frichchanstev%2FDCFNewsletterNameplate-aminated-sho.gif&hash=196477bd07cca64a4c95e477a312044f3504e2c7)
Whatever the new name of TDS, I'm sure it'll continue to be a terrific publication. I have been quite impressed with the two recent issues!
Richchan
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richchan,
yw. The animated GIF image is actually better since it appears to "blend" into the scenery better. The plain graphic is more imposing by comparison. Even without the lettering I think the pic is still nice and says a lot. And yeah, the TDS page is always a good thing to read.
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An Endangered Bookseller Species
Contributed by Rosewood
"Gay's The Word," Britain’s only gay and lesbian bookshop, is threatened with closure in the wake of rising rents and competition from online buying; and "its celebrity customers are at the forefront of a campaign to save it.
It’s a case of use us or lose us,” said store manager Jim MacSweeney.
I know that many people don't realize what a valuable service these bookstores are until they don't have them any more. In Los Angeles, one of the two branches of A Different Light had to close and I remember hearing a customer ask one of the store managers why it was closing because every time he was in there the store was crowded. The manager said that guys came in to see all the new things etc. and then went home and ordered them from amazon or someplace else...
:(
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Are people done posting ideas for the name of TDS, or are some being submitted by PM that we haven't heard?
I've liked:
Tell You What
Brokeback Times or Brokeback Mountain Times
Don't need THE in this case. No "the".
I also really love
The Brokeback Ledger
That is unique. It's clever. It definitely ties in! If you googled it, there'd be less choices there I believe...
I find it interesting that most people who did not like the "the close second survey choice" name for the title of the book coming out to be UP ON BROKEBACK, was because Aguirre says it in his trailer, which I found to be a lame reason, but if you type in "Up on Brokeback" in google--NOTHING MUCH comes up and that title would've been there at the top of the google search.
For What It's Worth
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Loved TDS edition of today, especially the chapeaugris profile! Chapeau! ( = bravo) ! ;)
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I find it interesting that most people who did not like the "the close second survey choice" name for the title of the book coming out to be UP ON BROKEBACK, was because Aguirre says it in his trailer, which I found to be a lame reason, but if you type in "Up on Brokeback" in google--NOTHING MUCH comes up and that title would've been there at the top of the google search.
Yes, but how many people are going to google "up on brokeback"?
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An Endangered Bookseller Species
Contributed by Rosewood
"Gay's The Word," Britain’s only gay and lesbian bookshop, is threatened with closure in the wake of rising rents and competition from online buying; and "its celebrity customers are at the forefront of a campaign to save it.
It’s a case of use us or lose us,” said store manager Jim MacSweeney.
I know that many people don't realize what a valuable service these bookstores are until they don't have them any more. In Los Angeles, one of the two branches of A Different Light had to close and I remember hearing a customer ask one of the store managers why it was closing because every time he was in there the store was crowded. The manager said that guys came in to see all the new things etc. and then went home and ordered them from amazon or someplace else...
:(
This is indeed true, Lyle and follows the demise of Women's bookstores. One of the truly sad things is that those stores enable people to get together for readings and events.
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Are people done posting ideas for the name of TDS, or are some being submitted by PM that we haven't heard?
I've liked:
Tell You What
Brokeback Times or Brokeback Mountain Times
Don't need THE in this case. No "the".
I also really love
The Brokeback Ledger
That is unique. It's clever. It definitely ties in! If you googled it, there'd be less choices there I believe...
I find it interesting that most people who did not like the "the close second survey choice" name for the title of the book coming out to be UP ON BROKEBACK, was because Aguirre says it in his trailer, which I found to be a lame reason, but if you type in "Up on Brokeback" in google--NOTHING MUCH comes up and that title would've been there at the top of the google search.
For What It's Worth
Is there any way we can have "Brokeback Times" or "Brokeback Mountain Times" with the wonderful "Campfire Chronicle " graphics?
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Thanks for the great profile on chapeaugris! This feature is my favorite part of TDS.
Many thanks as well to BrokenOkie, for his previous work on the forum finances. Thanks as well to BayCityJohn, for stepping up to fill that empty space, with BrokenOkie's departure as forum accountant.
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I will see Premonition just to support Dave's bud.
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Great Sheet today. I especially enjoyed the piece from the Guardian, oh what the heck, I loved it all....
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Hi John John
I just read a whole raft of bloggers' responses to Zoe W and the general drift is that she's (regrettably) a bit optimistic. Straight men are saying they are fed up of being propositioned by gay men etc. However, personally I do think there has been a sea change in the UK. Even (straight - I suppose) men friends I have always thought of as reactionaries seem to think it's cool to approve of gays these days (as long - of course - as they don't proposition them ;D).
Great sheet today!! SO good to have it back!. Thanks to all. And it was really interesting to read about chapeaugris - thanks chapeaugris!
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Gnash...
Jimmy... 'The Package' was beautiful!!! It's good news to think that Ennis was able to take Jack back to Brokeback where he belongs.
You brought a tear to my eye,
Rob
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Gnash...
Jimmy... 'The Package' was beautiful!!! It's good news to think that Ennis was able to take Jack back to Brokeback where he belongs.
You brought a tear to my eye,
Rob
Very beautiful, indeed.
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A hearty third to the above posts! The Package is touching. Thank you Gnash, for putting it together!!
richchan
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I loved the report on gay-friendly education in TDS.
Even more so after what I had to hear in the news today about the scandalous events going on in Poland
these days...
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Brokeback Mountain at the University of Maryland? I live five minutes from there! Now to find out if they let the public in. ;D
Jimmy, The Package is brilliant, and moving. Thank you.
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Brokeback Mountain at the University of Maryland? I live five minutes from there! Now to find out if they let the public in. ;D
If they do let the public in, you (editors) should list it on the TDS events.
Even (straight - I suppose) men friends I have always thought of as reactionaries seem to think it's cool to approve of gays these days (as long - of course - as they don't proposition them).
Montezumae--is it the propositioning they don't like or just the fact someone might have thought they were gay?
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Hello Lyle - to be honest I thought it was just good old-fashioned irritation. But then I wouldn't like to be propositioned while trying to do my hair in the ladies' loo (=restroom) - which is the male equivalent of what this was about. As far as I know women aren't subjected to that particular form of harassment.
But they are subjected to most other forms :D
- and have learnt to make their excuses and leave (as they say).
But what would I know about this? I was never in a gents' loo unless I walked through the wrong door by mistake...and ran out again...
- oh actually - that is confusing two comments about being propositioned - but let it stand for now...
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I just read "The Package" and wept!
Thank you Gnash!
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Thank you Gnash, for "The Package." It really does look like Ennis on that horse. Just beautiful, and sad.
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Gnash's piece has real-life echoes for me. One of my oldest woman friends had a quite serious relationship with another, somewhat older, woman. Eventually the older woman died of cancer and the younger one is, many years later, still grieving in some ways. She took the ashes of the older one back to the mountain cottage where we had all had several memorable walking holidays, and that's where she scattered the ashes. I and my friend have revisited this beautiful spot together on several occasions. I have asked her whether she'd like to go back to the spot for a walking holiday (the cottage can now be rented commercially) but she says, no, it's too painful. I'm sure it must be.
Thank you gnash, and it's good to know that this lovely piece resonated with so many of you.
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Gonzo, welcome back! It's good to see you back with TDS, as well! :-*
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i'm so glad you guys enjoyed my drabble! i guess i'm happy if it made you cry, too. needless to say i shed a few tears writing it. thanks again to james bama for providing the inspiration for that piece, and of course to annie proulx for the everything. :)
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Thank you for the Daily Sheet which I always read.
I especially enjoyed gnash's The Package piece which appeared on Monday with the extrodianary illustration : Riding the Rim by James Bama, from the Jerry. W. Horn Gallery.
The Before and After special effects by Buzz Image, on Wednesday was also a highlight.
Thank you to everyone involved with The Daily Sheet.
Lorna
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Thanks, Lorna. Welcome to the Forum!
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Gnash's piece has real-life echoes for me. One of my oldest woman friends had a quite serious relationship with another, somewhat older, woman. Eventually the older woman died of cancer and the younger one is, many years later, still grieving in some ways. She took the ashes of the older one back to the mountain cottage where we had all had several memorable walking holidays, and that's where she scattered the ashes. I and my friend have revisited this beautiful spot together on several occasions. I have asked her whether she'd like to go back to the spot for a walking holiday (the cottage can now be rented commercially) but she says, no, it's too painful. I'm sure it must be.
Thank you gnash, and it's good to know that this lovely piece resonated with so many of you.
This echoes real life for me as well. We scattered my husbands ashes at the place he loved the most, the family ranch. I too cannot return to that place, but know he is where he wants to be. This poem brings it home for me as well. Thanks Jimmy. Once again BB resonates real life to many of us.
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Boris, Marcia, gnash, thanks for the international news. I love those little flags. :)
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Regarding that AFI site and voting for your favorite movie ever. I'm quite late to this party, but went and entered my comment today. But I've seen elsewhere... I thought... that you could get a ranking of the movies voted on by the public. Is that available? I could not find it anywhere.
(and yes, the voting process was incredibly cumbersome)
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Monica, I believe that information would not be available til after the program in which the rankings by the AFI are shown. Sometime in June, I believe. I was a juror for the AFI, and, of course voted for Brokeback. That is not as exciting as it may sound. All members of AFI, such as me, get to vote, then all our votes are tallied and that final reckoning is equal to ONE vote in the whole process, with professional jurors making up the balance of the voters. But, it is fun to feel a microscopic part of the process.
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Gnash's piece has real-life echoes for me. One of my oldest woman friends had a quite serious relationship with another, somewhat older, woman. Eventually the older woman died of cancer and the younger one is, many years later, still grieving in some ways. She took the ashes of the older one back to the mountain cottage where we had all had several memorable walking holidays, and that's where she scattered the ashes. I and my friend have revisited this beautiful spot together on several occasions. I have asked her whether she'd like to go back to the spot for a walking holiday (the cottage can now be rented commercially) but she says, no, it's too painful. I'm sure it must be.
Thank you gnash, and it's good to know that this lovely piece resonated with so many of you.
This echoes real life for me as well. We scattered my husbands ashes at the place he loved the most, the family ranch. I too cannot return to that place, but know he is where he wants to be. This poem brings it home for me as well. Thanks Jimmy. Once again BB resonates real life to many of us.
Well, that's very much closer to home. My condolences. I'm sorry. Actually I can't really imagine how painful that must be for the people concerned. This piece gave me some sense of it. I only know how I felt after my mother died, and that shook me hard enough.
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Gnash's piece has real-life echoes for me. One of my oldest woman friends had a quite serious relationship with another, somewhat older, woman. Eventually the older woman died of cancer and the younger one is, many years later, still grieving in some ways. She took the ashes of the older one back to the mountain cottage where we had all had several memorable walking holidays, and that's where she scattered the ashes. I and my friend have revisited this beautiful spot together on several occasions. I have asked her whether she'd like to go back to the spot for a walking holiday (the cottage can now be rented commercially) but she says, no, it's too painful. I'm sure it must be.
Thank you gnash, and it's good to know that this lovely piece resonated with so many of you.
This echoes real life for me as well. We scattered my husbands ashes at the place he loved the most, the family ranch. I too cannot return to that place, but know he is where he wants to be. This poem brings it home for me as well. Thanks Jimmy. Once again BB resonates real life to many of us.
Well, that's very much closer to home. My condolences. I'm sorry. Actually I can't really imagine how painful that must be for the people concerned. This piece gave me some sense of it. I only know how I felt after my mother died, and that shook me hard enough.
Yes, this I can understand.
Though I was not really close with my mother, her death put so much in prospective for me. By far her death was the hardest thing I've ever faced.
After her funeral at the Tahoma National Cemetary outside Auburn, Washington, it was I who put her ashes, in that urn perchased in the "Little Vietnam" district in Tacoma, in that vault. With that urn with her ashes is an "ET" stuffed toy, some roses and many hot burning memories that only cause our family pain...
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I LOVE the international section, just love it, and hope it becomes permanent. Thanks, it was a real surprise!
{ Oh--health note to my fellow males on DCF----most males do not believe they get sick when they get sick. ' It will go away.'
It won't...all week I felt lousy, was forced to go to the doctor and guess what, 'tis the flu lol }
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I LOVE the international section, just love it, and hope it becomes permanent. Thanks, it was a real surprise!
{ Oh--health note to my fellow males on DCF----most males do not believe they get sick when they get sick. ' It will go away.'
It won't...all week I felt lousy, was forced to go to the doctor and guess what, 'tis the flu lol }
Had the flu a couple weeks ago myself... Nasty bug, that!
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I just read "The Package" and wept!
Thank you Gnash!
Me too.
Absolutely beautiful.
Perfection.
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Hi! I just wanted to say that only the first line of the photo cap of the day is mine. The rest are by the brilliant tfmisc.
Here it is. :)
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=17834.msg795350#msg795350
Thanks to everyone for doing a great job on the DS!
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"More From "Code of the West"
...
-- Never shoot a woman no matter what."
Just this once, couldn't we make an exception for Ann Coulter?
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Hi! I just wanted to say that only the first line of the photo cap of the day is mine. The rest are by the brilliant tfmisc.
Thanks - I went back and added that to the byline.
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It was a nice surprise to see the report on me and Janie meeting, thank you! :)
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Yes, this I can understand.
Though I was not really close with my mother, her death put so much in prospective for me. By far her death was the hardest thing I've ever faced.
After her funeral at the Tahoma National Cemetary outside Auburn, Washington, it was I who put her ashes, in that urn perchased in the "Little Vietnam" district in Tacoma, in that vault. With that urn with her ashes is an "ET" stuffed toy, some roses and many hot burning memories that only cause our family pain...
For me too, Rob. A long time ago in my case, but an indelible knowledge of what a major process recovery from bereavement is. Your last year has been such a joy to hear about; it's so good to hear about the positive side. It has given hope to so many people.
added on March 28th -
- she would have been 89 today (see mourning thread) - thanks again for the support Rob and Linda.
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"More From "Code of the West"
...
-- Never shoot a woman no matter what."
Just this once, couldn't we make an exception for Ann Coulter?
Now Joe: if we make exceptions for people like Anne >:D Coulter exceptions will be made for other people. People like Paris Hilton. Brittany Spears.
Where will it end???
We must forgive them, and in AC's case hope she goes on writing. Bit by bit, she destroys and discredits herself.
Why help that woman do anything at all......just sit back and watch.
On the other hand there IS Brittany's braindead Fed-Ex, searching the world for his lost penis. But that would probably come under the category of a mercy killing. ::)
And he IS a guy, I think.
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OMG...Dave is REAL?!?!? Thank you, Jan, for putting the truth out there! :D And, he's even cuter in that picture than in the ones he's put up before. ;)
Jack (Brokeback_1), I can't wait for part 2 of your Cowboy in NYC story. What an amazing piece of serendipity to run into the Chinese gentlemen on the subway...that story was delightful. Thank you.
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If you guys haven't seen it, check
out today's TDS!
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=208.msg814297#msg814297
(It should be linked in the box!)
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I have a thing for gorgonzola.
LOL
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Today's TDS has an item about equality bills being considered in New Hampshire, and refers to the U.S. Constitution's requirement that states recognize other states' contracts.
I want to pass along a caveat to those who think the Constitution will force/encourage/something states to accept other states' same-sex marriage laws or contracts. There is always a public policy argument available against forcing that kind of acceptance.
And the example I always use is: suppose Utah brought back polygamy. It's safe to predict the Constitution would not force other states to recognize a polygamous marriage, or a polygamous contract.
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Today's TDS has an item about equality bills being considered in New Hampshire, and refers to the U.S. Constitution's requirement that states recognize other states' contracts.
I want to pass along a caveat to those who think the Constitution will force/encourage/something states to accept other states' same-sex marriage laws or contracts. There is always a public policy argument available against forcing that kind of acceptance.
And the example I always use is: suppose Utah brought back polygamy. It's safe to predict the Constitution would not force other states to recognize a polygamous marriage, or a polygamous contract.
Very true. Quite a few people are devoted to the Constitution as long as it's convenient. And, as a major character in the book Holocaust said: "as a lawyer, I know that any action can be defended."
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"More From "Code of the West"
...
-- Never shoot a woman no matter what."
Just this once, couldn't we make an exception for Ann Coulter?
Are we sure she's a woman?
Reptiles are not covered by the Code of the West!
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"More From "Code of the West"
...
-- Never shoot a woman no matter what."
Just this once, couldn't we make an exception for Ann Coulter?
Are we sure she's a woman?
Reptiles are not covered by the Code of the West!
Maybe the Marquess of Queensbury is hiding behind the code of the West!
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Ellen...lol
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[John Sholto Douglas, the 9th Marquess of Queensberry, might have thrashed you for calling him “she”.
Not now - I just went back and re-worded that, thanks.
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Great Sheet yet again.
And oh Nax, I'm also Magic Flute obsessed. That Papageno guy is sooo sweet.
Jack, your trip to NY is a riot!
And about those Buzz Image special effects from BBM, I checked out where these people where and they're about five blocks from where I live here in Montreal! The friggin special effects where made in my neighbourhood !!! yeaaaaaahhhhhhhh
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What a wonderful Sheet from beginning to end!
They are usually always great, but this was one I read from start to finish.
Thanks so much for an excellent paper!
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I loved yesterday's TDS very much as well, in particular Nax's profile & I appreciate the international updates on gay issues!
Keep the good work coming!
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I am sorry so many of the DC readers found my "American Brokie" series to be too personally oriented to be meaningful to you. I have asked, and received reply from the other international contributors I have met on my travels, and while it was meaningful to them, their interest in contributing after the initial poor response here has waned. So I will not be continuing with the series at this time.
I will consider writing some future articles if the mood changes or if there is some reason to extend an international hand from the other side of the chasm to this.
Regretfully,
Louisev
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The Daily Sheet welcomes all submissions from members. International stories and writers will continue to be an important part of our publication.
Whenever we have needed to reject any story, the author has been told why, and, as in the above case, he or she has been given the chance to re-submit.
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Excellent TDS again today. I especially enjoy the FindingBrokeback stories. Thanks, Jim. The info about the cowboy hats was cute. ;)
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You folks do a great job every day, so thanks! The story about the cowboy hats was especially informative...I've bookmarked the site for later. Thank you again!
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You folks do a great job every day, so thanks! The story about the cowboy hats was especially informative...I've bookmarked the site for later. Thank you again!
That site is quite a resource - every imaginable style, some history, etiquette, even cleaning and sizing info.
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Once again, great TDS! Especially enjoyed the opportunity to purchase the DVD of The Dave Cullen Forum Band! I've printed out the order form and will be mailing it out soon.
Keep up the good work!
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"More From "Code of the West"
...
-- Never shoot a woman no matter what."
Just this once, couldn't we make an exception for Ann Coulter?
I think it only counts for humans, Joe.
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TDS et al.,
As unofficial 'spokesperson' for the Dave Cullen Forum Band, may I take this opportunity to express our thanks for the nice writeup in TDS today. Keep up the fine work you guys do.
Lenny D.
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The TDS mentions an issue of Film Quarterly with a special section on BBM. I am very keen to buy it, but United Kingdom does not feature on the list of countries in the order form!! Or am I totally blind?
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Hi mouk --
I went through the whole on-line form a bit earlier today -- just one suggestion, did you look at the top of the list? I noticed they had United States up there, maybe United Kingdom is also at the top?
I am sure it's there somewhere!
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Tellyouwhat, I think they intended to put it up there with US and Canada, but forgot :D -
Goddambitch of an unsatisfactory situation though...
Oh well, I'll have another look, just in case
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To any Brit interested in buying the BBM Film Quarterly issue online: you will not find UK in the list of countries in the order form but do not despair (as I did ::)), Tellyouwhat found that England is in the list.
Like Ennis, I am going to need reading glasses if I am going to start reading other things then them Saddle Catalogues 8)
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Thanks so much for the info on the Brokeback centered Film Quarterly issue. I went right to the site and bought one.
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Another great issue, TDS Gang! Thank you all for the hard work and long hours that go into each edition.
Beautiful poem, Chuck.
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TDS was wonderful today, as always. Thanks for the info on Film Quarterly and FindingBrokeback. JimBond, I LOVE your stories.
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Got a copy of Film Quarterly. Should be renamed Film Dissection and Dessication. Brokeback's rich meat is turned into critical jerky. On the whole, the articles in Film Quarterly don't come near to the commentary posted for months on this site. Too bad I wasted the money.
The central article, D.A. Miller's article "On the Universality of Brokeback Mountain", seems to see the movie as a universal wish to return "the Homosexual" into a world of latency. For him it is merely the CRAFT of the film that is the real universal for which the film receives general recognition. He writes in the manner of jealous, tedious art critics who find Jung, Freud, Socrates, Margaret Mead, in the works of everyone else.
Unless you are interested in Ang Lee's Chinese influences in a couple of other articles, pass on this magazine.
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Congrats dear TDS and dear TDS makers for one year of wonderful information and idealism - what a great contribution!
I'm grateful for you all doing this. Keep the good work coming!
Ingsweets :-*
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One year!
Well done, congratulations to the whole team for the wonderful job you have been doing. The TDS is one of the big highlights in this forum, and such a great way to attract our attention on issues / threads we may have missed out on otherwise.
A big, heartfelt thank you :-*
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Happy Birthday to "The Daily Sheet"!
Many thanks to all the members who work so hard to bring it to us!
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DAILY SHEET and especially you all who have contributed to it.
So many unforgettable moments reading it, laughing with it, getting to know a fellow member better.
Everything done with class and humor.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe155%2Fborishki%2FScenery%2FIMG_4734.jpg&hash=c196dbf12d636cb2052dafd19a4a6b8b7ea2e388)
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Happy Birthday TDS! Hoping for "many happy returns"!
Bravo & brava to all staffers! Your hard work is most appreciated.
Also, thank you for sharing the link to DC's radio interview. Impressive guy, our founder! (Also wonderful deep voice....so sad tho to hear it while discussing that enormous tragedy.)
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Thanks for warning all of us about them evil sheeps!
(I hear there are intelligence reports that them evil sheeps like to eat that yellow cake from Niger, so we all better watch out!)
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Congratulations, TDS, on your First Anniversary! I've enjoyed every page. And I, for one, like the idea of keeping the name.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi221%2Famdaz%2FChampagne.jpg&hash=a3fd1574aa9f4232871104739457f7627c6c0dd2)
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Birthy Hapday, TDS!
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I've read The Daily Sheet since it was a daily sheet.
Even if it's no more a daily sheet I still enjoy The Daily Sheet. ;D
Great work!
John
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Thanks, everyone! We are SO enjoying the lovely wishes and birthday cards! Flowers and champagne, lovely!
:-* :-* :-*
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Thanks to everyone for the good wishes! It was a pleasure to be a part of the original and to be included in the celebration today! Jan
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DAILY SHEET and especially you all who have contributed to it.
So many unforgettable moments reading it, laughing with it, getting to know a fellow member better.
Everything done with class and humor.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi39.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe155%2Fborishki%2FScenery%2FIMG_4734.jpg&hash=c196dbf12d636cb2052dafd19a4a6b8b7ea2e388)
Boris, what beautiful flowers! Thank you.
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I'm joining the chorus of gratefull and appreciative people in singing out loud Happy Birthday to you Daily Sheet!!!!.
Congratulations and thank you to all of you generous and hard working members.
Cheers and long life to the Sheet!
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Happy Birthday Daily Sheet!
Thanks Ellen, Thanks Jan!
You two set the pace and built the foundation. A strong foundation!
And Ellen I had no idea "THAT" TDS was the most widely read of all--we must have interested people lol
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Happy Birthday and congratulations, TDS team! You're each a class act and shining star in your own right. Collectively - WOW. Just look what you've done. Thanks, folks - you are amazing.
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My congratulations too, where would we be without you ;)
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Happy Birthday Daily Sheet!
Thanks Ellen, Thanks Jan!
You two set the pace and built the foundation. A strong foundation!
And Ellen I had no idea "THAT" TDS was the most widely read of all--we must have interested people lol
Just to clarify --
The week of Annie Proulx' profile, in July, was the highest (now the archives show 6400 plus hits)
Diana Ossana and Larry McMurtry each had about 3900 hits.
The week of our Annie Proulx report from Wyoming had about 3400 hits.
When the Daily Sheet was daily, we averaged about 350 hits per issue, in a normal week.
In the time since elle, kmich and Marge_Innavera began, that number went up, (my unscientific observations) to nearly 400 per issue.
We still average a little more than 400 per issue, three times a week. I do believe that is an amazing feat for a forum like ours, and I hope we can manage to be the mouse that roars with our book!
Thanks again for all the nice remarks, everyone!
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OMG! That video on YouTube just killed me. I obviously survived to thank you for yet another great Sheet.
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I loved the Profile on Rob. And how cool is it about the Film Quarterly acknowledging us? Thanks for another terrific TDS.
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The video of our movie with the song "My Immortal" is, indeed, a killer... My mother died shortly after the song (and video) was originally released on MTV and VH1. For weeks I listened to it over and over again. It brought tears I needed to release.
Seeing it now with our boys brings more tears, different ones, and happier in some strange way, maybe because I can see where I am now compared to where I was back then...
Rob
PS Thanks for the profile. :)
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(PPS Anyone know if there's a way to download videos from Youtube?)
:-\
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VOTE!!! VOTE FOR DONNIE DARKO AS THE FILM TO DISCUSS ON MIKE FLANAGAN'S FILM CLUB THREAD!!! VOTE FOR DD AN I WILL GIVE YOU A BOAT!!!
this would be such an incredibly cool film to discuss, and I CAN'T be the only DD fan on DCF!!!
lol lol lol
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OMG! That video on YouTube just killed me. I obviously survived to thank you for yet another great Sheet.
Thanks for the encouragement - that video blew me away too. I hope a lot of readers take a look at it; it's one of the best things I've seen on YouTube yet.
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VOTE!!! VOTE FOR DONNIE DARKO AS THE FILM TO DISCUSS ON MIKE FLANAGAN'S FILM CLUB THREAD!!! VOTE FOR DD AN I WILL GIVE YOU A BOAT!!!
this would be such an incredibly cool film to discuss, and I CAN'T be the only DD fan on DCF!!!
lol lol lol
I watched it... once. Gonna have to watch it again... It's a thinking kinda movie, I'm thinking!
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I absolutely loved The Immortal video! I've just watched it twice. Thank you for mentioning that in the TDS... and thank you for the TDS anyway! I've only just discovered that there's a thread to respond to it (...I know I'm a bit slow... ::)) but I've read it ever since I found this forum. Thanx for all the work you put in it!!
I also really liked reading the profile of Rob! (That last answer you gave - why SNIT melts you - ...well, that just melts me.)
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VOTE!!! VOTE FOR DONNIE DARKO AS THE FILM TO DISCUSS ON MIKE FLANAGAN'S FILM CLUB THREAD!!! VOTE FOR DD AN I WILL GIVE YOU A BOAT!!!
this would be such an incredibly cool film to discuss, and I CAN'T be the only DD fan on DCF!!!
lol lol lol
I watched it... once. Gonna have to watch it again... It's a thinking kinda movie, I'm thinking!
watch both--the theatrical release and the directors cut. They are different. Even a lot of the music is different. But each has 'something'; I've become fanatical about that film, it's remarkable.
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Thanks to everyone for the good wishes! It was a pleasure to be a part of the original and to be included in the celebration today! Jan
Hey Jan! Good to see you in the Daily Sheet! And I had no idea I was one of the first members pictured. I think it must be my natural shyness.... ;) :D
Great job to all the Daily Sheet editors! You've all been WONDERFUL to work with. :-*
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Gee, I just ordered Film Quarterly, and I hope it's not such a waste as Oregon says!
Do you folks know how the BBM get-together in Seattle, WA is shaping up? I want to go to this, and I want to plan EARLY, as I wanted to go to the Estes Park one, and I waited too long.
Any info on this? Thanks!
BTW, you do a great job! Keep it up!
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I don't think buying Film Quarterly is necessarily a waste. But I do caution that the eight articles dedicated to Brokeback Mountain need to be carefully appraised and responded to.
My initial take is that they have been written for readers who are members of the Academy as a delayed and patronizing response to our ad in Variety. Faint praise is a special form of damnation...and revenge.
If Film Quarterly is as influential as it sets itself up to be, the themes of Brokeback Mountain are being pushed yet again out of Hollywood's comfort zone.
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Gee, I just ordered Film Quarterly, and I hope it's not such a waste as Oregon says!
Do you folks know how the BBM get-together in Seattle, WA is shaping up? I want to go to this, and I want to plan EARLY, as I wanted to go to the Estes Park one, and I waited too long.
Any info on this? Thanks!
BTW, you do a great job! Keep it up!
Jer, it is NOT too late for Estes Park!!!!!!!!!!! Get in touch with EDelmar (Adam). He will help you make arrangements! Truly, it is not too late! Come join us. I would LOVE to meet you there!
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Just registered my vote and 2 cents worth of comment at the AFI poll of the 100 Greatest Movies of all Time. Thanks to the TDS editors for bringing it to everybody's attention. As of tonight, I noticed that Brokeback has 97 votes and Crash has 3. Anybody surprised? NOT !!!!!!!
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Gee, thanks for quoting my little license plate number! And enjoyable to see a definition of the various terms of fan fiction, which can be a bit confusing at times.
And the screening at the U of MD was wonderful! As I mentioned in the audience reaction thread, this was the only time (except for Bay City) that no one laughed or snickered when the screen showed Alma watching Jack and Ennis kissing passionately.
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Fritz, they did that at every theater showing I went to in NYC.
I felt it was because it had actually happened to a lot of the people there...
Manhattan deja-vu so to speak
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The same happened at every other showing here in the DC area that I went to, as well as in Germany. A lot of it was nervous laughter, but it was refreshing to have had two screenings without the titters.
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Fritz, do you think most of the people in the audience were there for a repeat viewing? That might account for the silence.
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I loved the license plates!
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Starting to get off topic as relates to TDS, but regarding Alma seeing her husband with Jack, I think it's common to laugh at scenes in movies where people get "caught" doing something. In most all screenings I've seen of Gone with the Wind for example, the audience laughs when Melanie catches Scarlett and Ashley together in the sawmill.
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Well we ARE OT....but it never bugged me the way it bugged so many others. I keep remembering the reaction of an 80 year old woman to her friend: " Oh Jesus, HER world's just been rocked!"
And Heath himself said every time he saw that scene he laughed at that expression on Michelle's face...It follows the short story, the way it was placed, a LOT of people smile at "She had seen what she had seen." There is wit in that tale, as well as tragedy. Good tragedy always has some wit. It makes the tragedy more bearable.Otherwsie you just have a potboiler
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Fritz, do you think most of the people in the audience were there for a repeat viewing? That might account for the silence.
Couldn't really say, most of the non-Brokies were U of MD students. The ones that asked questions afterwards seemed knowledgeable about the film.
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...i saw bbm (for about the 10th time) in a 1/3 full theatre in sherman oaks, CA. i was sitting a few seats away from a very handsome very tall extremely sexy rugged looking man in cowboy boots and jeans and a western style shirt (no wonder i next to him!).. anyway, he left during FNIT. guess he couldn't stand it...
what was i talking about? OH! audience reaction.. there was also a pair of older jewish women sitting in front of me. when aguirre and his binoculars came onscreen, one of them said out loud, "oy vey!"
and when melanie, i mean alma, caught the boys kissing,, she said it again.. "OY VEY!" even louder, and her hands went up in the air. i loved it.
also, right after FNIT, some woman ahead of us stood up to leave but her husband/male friend pulled her back down.. during SNIT, she jumped up, he followed her. just before she exited, she turned and screamed to the audience, "DISSSS-GUSTING!"
most everybody booed her!!
ON TOPIC: i just want to say how great it is to read in TDS about members that are doing their part to promote "beyond brokeback" for the forum.. you guys rock! and jackie, congrats on your impromptu speaking engagement the other day, that must have been exciting! :D
and i loved the "one more step, the printer makes" headline in wed's TDS! :D ;) (just heard the new rufus song btw... apparently he doesn't like america!!) ;)
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Off topic, but just for a moment...
Gnash... Jimmy, I LOVE the age progression film strip of Ennis in your signature line!!!
You're very good, ya know!
Rob
Okay... Done!
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The article on gays in Saudi Arabia is very interesting. If anyone wants to read the whole article and can't acquire the May issue of The Atlantic Monthly (it is on all good newstands in the US) I have it on a Word doc. Just pm me with your email address and I'll send it.
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Thank you, Jimmy. It was fun to speak about the book, as I feel so passionately about it.
I LOVE that Andy was the Profile today, as I met him today for the first time! :D
I am especially enjoying the international news pieces. Thank you to everyone who contributes the information.
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I don't know exactly where to post this, but I suppose most of our members read TDS.
There was an earthquake in England overnight Friday...are all the Brokies in England all right?
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I know that Sal (Tigs) lives in the east where the earthquake occurred (a bit over 4 on the Richter scale), and she didn't mention it this morning as she was departing for Belgium, so I think we can assume there were no ill effects.
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Haven't heard anything AT ALL about serious earthquakes in the UK... ???
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Some buildings did suffer minor structural damage and there were some injuries.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6602677.stm
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We are not 40 or 50 miles as the crow flies from the epicentre. Some people felt it here. I was asleep, but there is no damage in our area. I think it was worse in some parts of the county of Kent.
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fritzkep--
Thanks for the reply!
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fritzkep's reply was the first one I saw-- sorry!--just noticed there were other replies to the same subject. Glad all the Brokies are safe!
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I know I'm late to the party, but for what's worth: I'm glad The Daily Sheet is keeping its name. After all, Gentleman's Quarterly was once (I imagine) quarterly, and now it's monthly.
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^^^^^
Thanks Jer!
Also for what it's worth --
I too was very "taken" by the Brokeback Mountain ski resort, in more ways than one! ;D
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The photocaption today was incredibly powerful. A real stab to the heart. I'm glad you reprinted it here, thanks!
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Hey Janjo! I enjoyed your profile,
Do you enjoy the doughnuts WITH the beer? ;D
Can't wait to get my copies of the book!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks again y'all for yet a another wonderful Sheet :-* :-* :-*
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Hey Janjo! I enjoyed your profile,
Do you enjoy the doughnuts WITH the beer? ;D
Not usually Jean, but I bet I could at a push!
Not exactly a healthy diet is it!
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janjo, haven't been online for a week...dialup in NY is sooo slow, I will read your profile in Denver on Tuesday as the page was 'x''ed out after taking 10 minutes to NOT load.....
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Congratulations to John and Chuck on their Wedding last week! Can't wait to meet you at the BBQ in a few weeks (and get to horn in on some of your honeymoon! :o :o :D)
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There was mention of BBM in an article about Jack Weil on NPR All Things Considered (I think, or it might have been Morning Edition, but I believe it was the former). The article mentioned about the use of Rockmont shirts in various Western movies, and citing BBM as the most recent. It was on last week, can't remember the date, but it's findable on www.npr.org
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While I was in NYC, WLAGuy called me up and asked if I had gotten FilmQuarterly's BBM edition; he had picked it up after hearing about it through the forum, and it had amazed him. He was so enthusiastic I went over to Universal News at 42nd/Times Sq. and bought 2 copies at 2AM <being at a midnight meeting down the block helped lol!>, one to read, one to keep in the plastic wrapper.
I can't tell you how much I enjoyed it. I didn't agree with some of the opinions, and so what? The entire series of articles was fascinating.
Joe was right: the treatment the film recieved in that trade magazine shows BBM has entered the rarified realm of the 'legendary film'---not after years, but after one single sole solitary YEAR.
It was worth the $10.00 per issue pricetag. If you can get a copy, BUY IT.
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While I was in NYC, WLAGuy called me up and asked if I had gotten FilmQuarterly's BBM edition; he had picked it up after hearing about it through the forum, and it had amazed him. He was so enthusiastic I went over to Universal News at 42nd/Times Sq. and bought 2 copies at 2AM <being at a midnight meeting down the block helped lol!>, one to read, one to keep in the plastic wrapper.
I can't tell you how much I enjoyed it. I didn't agree with some of the opinions, and so what? The entire series of articles was fascinating.
Joe was right: the treatment the film recieved in that trade magazine shows BBM has entered the rarified realm of the 'legendary film'---not after years, but after one single sole solitary YEAR.
It was worth the $10.00 per issue pricetag. If you can get a copy, BUY IT.
Heading out to Borders this afternoon to see if they carry it!!!
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Ellen and all the TDS crew.....
From the DCF Band, our thanks for your most kind review of the concert DVD and your support of our effort.
Trish, John, Lenny & Glenn
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Great news about Martina!!
Thanks for taking this on, you will be hearing from me, which will give some other people a break from my kneejerk emails :D ;D
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What a wonderful Profile of Martina! Thank you all.
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Great Profile on Martina.
Vampire Chronicles?
I should have known.
Great and creative minds. ;)
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I love the pic of Martina in TDS today.
And thank you for the article about Frank Pangborn today.
I was over at Maureens' house on Wedbesday and we were watching "Stage Door". My favorite line in the movie is when Franklin Pangborn exits the room and Ginger Rogers says: "I never know if he's coming out or going in".
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Great profiles on both Martina and Janjo!
thanks for all the hard work that goes into each sheet!
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John:
Thanks for pointing out the story in today's TDS about homosexuality and the movies. I also remember that classic and unforgettable line.
I went back and linked to the Turner Classic Movie website and read about their Film Festival. I would suggest to anyone who would like to get a dose of gay and lesbian history, go to the website and make it a point to see some of these movies especially the commentary that will be provided during the Festival.
Thanks TDS.
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Just a few days ago we had janjo's profile on TDS, now we have Martina!
Two of my favorite Forum members, one after the other. Reading about Janjo's work, knowing the dedication she has, knowing she makes a difference, is and was wonderful. So is knowing her kind and loving heart. I'm so flattered such a cool and good person decided to make her home with us, here on DCF.....
And today, I was surprised and very happy to see desertrat's profile. I've met her; she is easily embaressed so I will refrain from extravagent compliments. I'll just quote her:
question:
If Heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the Pearly Gates?
answer:
“Do you see that ray of sunshine over there? That's the one you brought into this world. Well done.”
or "I told you, it's not only the good girls who go to heaven!" >:D
THAT is Martina, in a nutshell.
I'm not easily "dazzled", which is a word I seldom use for any reason.
But dazzling she is, and sometimes a guy has to tell the truth. Martina's truth is that she is one of the people God placed on this planet to make life happier for the rest of us.
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Re today's story about the BBM lawsuit in Chicago.
I'm not in favor of nonsense lawsuits like this one, but if the facts are as stated, I'm appalled at what the substitute teacher did, and why hasn't she been fired?
Call me a prude, but I don't think gay and straight buttfucking is appropriate movie fare for an audience of eighth graders.
Also, the movie depicted smoking! (This post was serious until almost the end.)
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Marc --
The problem with a high profile case like this is that -- if the teacher had chosen to show any R-rated movie to any minors in school -- where parents expect them to be learning, and trust them to the adults there -- any R-rated picture would be outrageous, I think you agree.
I would be really angry if someone did that to my kid at school.
In fact, we have to sign permission slips for them to see sex education films.
So the teacher was way out of line, I'm just sorry she picked OUR MOVIE to make negative headlines with. >:( >:( >:(
*sigh* Europeans are already criticizing Americans for looking extremely silly yet again. It is such a complicated issue. The prayer people will use this as an excuse to ask for prayers back in school, on and on. And I think teachers in high school and college should be able to require Brokeback Mountain, if it's appropriate to the curriculum. But the substitute teacher probably should have found a different lesson plan that day.
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I suppose age twelve is a little young for this film, although there must be plenty of kids that age who have watched it at home at that age just because it was on the DVD shelf.
But surely it is not the sex scenes that will do children any harm it is the emotional content.
The state we are all in, what could this film do to a twelve year old?
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There is a big difference between watching it at home because you found it in with the DVDs and being made to watch it by a teacher, surrounded by all your classmates. I imagine everything leading up to the FNIT would be fairly boring for kids and then suddenly, well, FNIT! I seriously doubt the girl would have been scarred for life if her parents hadn't gone so berserk-- they're pretty much ensuring that's so -- but that teacher showed incredibly poor judgement.
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Marc --
The problem with a high profile case like this is that -- if the teacher had chosen to show any R-rated movie to any minors in school -- where parents expect them to be learning, and trust them to the adults there -- any R-rated picture would be outrageous, I think you agree.
I would be really angry if someone did that to my kid at school.
In fact, we have to sign permission slips for them to see sex education films.
So the teacher was way out of line, I'm just sorry she picked OUR MOVIE to make negative headlines with. >:( >:( >:( that day.
My take on it is that the class should not have been shown an R-rated movie without parental permission and the teacher should be fired.
But $400,000 FRICKIN' DOLLARS? ? ? ? ? ? Give me a break! And the notion of a 12-year-old, whose parents might very well have taken her to see a gorefest like Passion of the Christ with no qualms, needing counseling and therapy?
Again, give me a break. <Mr. Rogers' voice> Can you say "frivolous lawsuit"? Of course you can." </ Mr. Rogers' voice> Let's hear those cash registers sing! KA-CHING! $$$$$
In re the smoking in the movie - isn't it comical, in a morbid sort of way, that despite the #1 cause of death among teenagers in the US being automobile accidents (most involving teenage drivers), there are so many people who will go to any length to keep Their Precious Child away from anyone who might even be thinking of lighting up -- but when the kid is 16, they give him or her a car? Go figure.
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The state we are all in, what could this film do to a twelve year old?
Give her grandparents a chance to make some bucks, apparently. Maybe they'll take her to Disney World.
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Well, I am pretty sure my daughter started smoking during her teens because of Gwyneth Paltrow and Julia Roberts and on and on. I know Marc wasn't serious, but there could have been about 50% fewer cigarettes in BBM and we would have got the idea.
(runs from brickbats)
The tragedy of this case is that the teacher really gave the Christian right a huge platform and megaphone, and the decision to "sue" is nearly as wrongheaded. They are right to complain, but it is for the wrong reasons. I hate that the media only reports the quote"It is against our faith" and allows people to form the impression that only Christians would be affronted by an R rated movie shown to 12 year olds, while the rest of us must be anything-goes hedonistic pagans.
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My two--the teacher was an idiot, and what she did comes dangerously close to child abuse, the more so as she was a sub and had no bond with or understanding of the kids she was showing this to. The movie is full of the fword, which many parents could legitimately object to, full of smoking and drinking, and as someone said, after about 20 minutes of fairly boring stuff--FNIT! I know kids know more than they did when I was 12--but my God, that's pushing it a bit. And I'm not sure it would help the gay kids in the class come to terms with their sexuality to see Earl, or Jack being gay-bashed. Yes, the lawsuit is crass and greedy, but lawsuits are automatic these days. The teacher grossly violated a position of trust and showed a powerful, complex, subtle and disturbing piece of cinematic art to kids too young to understand it or take the right messages from it. And the ick factor of showing this to a roomful of boys and girls on the edge of puberty? Off the scale. Like I said, borderline child abuse. Her own children, that's a judgement call. Someone else's, that she doesn't know? Masturbation.
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^^^^^^^What Charlotte said^^^^^^^^
I'd only add an insight that as a one-time gay teenager, I would have been horrified to be in this class.
At 12, I was years away from sorting out my own feelings about being gay, let alone dealing with others
reactions. Trauma is a mild word for what I would have felt to suddenly be exposed to my classmates
reaction to FNIT. And SNIT. And the reunion. And....
This teacher is a moron.
Edit: In fact, the more I think on it, the more I believe the teacher did it on purpose, to get exactly this
kind of reaction. I can't think of any other legitimate reason for doing something so wrongheaded. And the
choice of movie is not insignificant.
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Loved the Jake interview!!! Thanks!
Falwell is dead, good riddance.
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The Jake interview was awesome!
Both he and the journalist: very smart, very thoughtful, very moving!
Thanks for including it and for commenting on it so nicely.
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Good old Jerry Falwell and the many like him, helped push me deep in the closet where I resided for 46 of my 47 years.
It's sad that he didn't wake up to the fact that folks such as myself are as worthy of love, respect and compassion as anyone else...
Good night, Jerry. I hope you find what you've been looking for!
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Good old Jerry Falwell and the many like him, helped push me deep in the closet where I resided for 46 of my 47 years.
It's sad that he didn't wake up to the fact that folks such as myself are as worthy of love, respect and compassion as anyone else...
Good night, Jerry. I hope you find what you've been looking for!
Some people seem to believe, for some reason, that whipping up hate for any minority group that they object to will, perhaps, divert residual love and compassion to themselves. Yet it never happens that way. Love begets love, hate begets hate.
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Good old Jerry Falwell and the many like him, helped push me deep in the closet where I resided for 46 of my 47 years.
It's sad that he didn't wake up to the fact that folks such as myself are as worthy of love, respect and compassion as anyone else...
Good night, Jerry. I hope you find what you've been looking for!
for some reason, Rob, this brings tears to my eyes, possibly because I have just been reading Linda's appreciative :o comments about you.
I cannot imagine the sense of release you must feel.
Thanks to everyone for a great TDS. I have always thought this story would translate perfectly to the west of Ireland so I must read this Scottish fanfic. If anyone comes across an Irish version (or feels inspired to write one) - let me know.
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hey everybody,
incredible - i have never been here before ! there actually ARE threads that i haven't been at before ;D
so, of course i missed all your nice comments about my involvement in TDS and my profile !
may i just distribute a general (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh55%2Fdesertrat77%2Fsmilies%2Fthkisses6vi.gif&hash=9ce8000705b9a0dcc63c56b07f28254e6d8575f6) ?
thank you !
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The "quote of the day" must have been chosen with extra special care today. :)
It's particularly well suited for the Falwell story. :-\
-KH
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Hi guys and let me also congratulate us all for having Martina aboard.
There was a small bit about Eurovision Song Contest. It's very gay in good and bad, nobody actually knows why. One explanation is that everyone is supposed to show contempt towards it: it's glitzy, poor taste, shallow, insignificant and yet, 110 million people watch it yearly. Bit of a cultural underdog. It has provided some fantastic songs (anyone remember Italian hit song "Volare" in 1950's) or bands (ABBA) or some now famous artists who have succeeded but conveniently forgot (Celine Dion, representing Switzerland in early eighties).
This year it was held in Helsinki, Finland. Finns have notoriously become last more often than any other country in the history of the event. We live in cold and dreary country, so every reason to celebrate is warmly welcome. We won the contest last year in Athens with horror heavy rock and this year I had great fun being in the audience at the finals.
For those who want to know more about this weird phenomena and it's gayness, here are some examples of how glitzy and gay we can be in Europe. In many ways the music and performances here enhance some stereotype, something many of us seek to change. At the same time many of these songs and their presenters show courage and boldness in cultures or countries where it's still almost impossible to be who you are. Swedes and Danes can freely play with gender stereotypes but Ukraine and Serbia... regardless of what you think of the music or what they represent, they're both courageous acts.
For gays and such:
Sweden: The Ark… great band, even though this song is somewhat lame
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcTEQ8wu1yI
Austria: aids awareness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP0zw-WxpwM&mode=related&search=
France: funny
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6MgHMHguew
Ukraine: madness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH06v2KdfVI
Denmark: ”classic” drag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy1fdc3H6xs
For the friends of violin and violinplayers: Malta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3_ofcWsSRw
For the stereotypical lesbians: Serbia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH3fjeVccyw
For dirty old (straight) men: Russia
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9ZLDeabWXM
and then some actually good music: as you can see I like music that draw inspiration form tradition
Georgia http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We3sDzgCoVQ
Bulgaria http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ7hVg_f5Wc
And what Finns do best: some classical music w. cello. Meet Apocalyptica (this is good if I may say so)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi4DGaQzB2A
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jari, thanks for the great summary with vid examples ! yeah, the song contest is something special, isn't it ? ;)
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Thanks Jari,
No wonder this show is popular! The visuals are incredible!
The French were a riot, are the Fatals Picards actually French? They sang with a very funny English accent.
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i think that was VERY courageous ! french singing in english accents ! i wonder that this was even "allowed" given the strict ideas the yhave a bout the french language ! ;)
oh, and jari, i have to agree about apokalyptica. i have their metallica cd, i LOVE it. :)
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The youtube clips are from live event. You can find the video of each participant song here:
http://www.yle.fi/eurovision/main.php?id=2776
Fatal Picards has riden from gay venues in France. The song is supposedly a parody of all lovesongs that have ever been made of Paris, hence parts of it are sung in English. The wordsd are outright silly but they made live audience crazy... great fun to watch.
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i think that was VERY courageous ! french singing in english accents ! i wonder that this was even "allowed" given the strict ideas the yhave a bout the french language ! ;)
oh, and jari, i have to agree about apokalyptica. i have their metallica cd, i LOVE it. :)
Apocalyptica is one of my favorites too.
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very nice to see all the great responses to the book.
and i'm glad to see this thread so active.
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Wow, what an great Daily Sheet--I'm so glad I decided to read this before I got down to work--I love all the stories, the profile, the story about the Western wear photo gallery--good going for bringing this oversight to their attention and yahoo that they responded sooo well. And I love the photo cap, of course. And I'd love to know more about killersmom's move....
thanks!
moved here (the correct thread)
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A particularly good read this week is the above, with information, education, enlightenment and humour all in one.
Both Rob and Jari make pertinent statements on the death(and life) of Rev. Falwell with a profound quote from Anne Lamott that hits the nail right on the head. And with Jake so much to the fore as he takes Cannes by storm, a lovely photo cap from tfmisc leaves me with such a yearning to be that bloody horse! Like the dogs, it looks totally at home with our Precious doesn't it?
Nice to meet you Whiplash and sincerest best wishes for your Godson.
It's funny how being a Canadian has so often been the but of many a joke but I'd say the last laugh is with that foreward and enlightened thinking nation.
I'd like to add that a missive of mine officially holds the title of 2nd post to grace the doormat of our Linda in her new home b ut what an act to follow? As a European I am still awaiting my copy of BBB but when it comes I may well not vacuum that mat for quite some time. ;D ;D
Well done team. ;D
(moved to the correct thread)
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I wish I could say I'm sorry J.Fallowell is dead but I'M NOT. People die all the time, it's part of life; why waste sadness on an ass?
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I wish I could say I'm sorry J.Fallowell is dead but I'M NOT. People die all the time, it's part of life; why waste sadness on an ass?
well, we don't have to be sad, personally. but as it was said in the daily sheet - he was a son, husband, father, friend. he had people who loved him (and who weren't the object of his hate speeches :-\) and who will miss him. we should respect their pain.
as for him, i said it in the non-believer's thread and i will repeat it here: i'm sure he got his reward for his wonderful life by now. i wonder whether he was very disappointed when he saw freddie mercury, rock hudson, anthony perkins and rudolf nureyev sitting around god in heaven ;D
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I wish I could say I'm sorry J.Fallowell is dead but I'M NOT. People die all the time, it's part of life; why waste sadness on an ass?
well, we don't have to be sad, personally. but as it was said in the daily sheet - he was a son, husband, father, friend. he had people who loved him (and who weren't the object of his hate speeches :-\) and who will miss him. we should respect their pain.
as for him, i said it in the non-believer's thread and i will repeat it here: i'm sure he got his reward for his wonderful life by now. i wonder whether he was very disappointed when he saw freddie mercury, rock hudson, anthony perkins and rudolf nureyev sitting around god in heaven ;D
I agree with you Martina, and am glad you wrote that. Why? Simple. At times I do not express myself well at all and write about a solitary aspect of feelings which in reality are quite complex.
Yes indeed, I feel for those who loved him within his family--wife, children, grandchildren. One should not mock grief and I don't. Where his 'believing followers' are concerned I feel they were led astray by him, yet one is only led astray when one WANTS TO BE SO LED. The material for what I consider 'being led astray' was already in place, ready to be brought to life by Fallwell. And bring it to life he did. Still I respect their loss.
I may disagree with the 'modern' Papacy, the 'modern' Orthodox Patriarchy, certain established churches within Christianity....yet not a one of of them, while expressing disapproval or outright condemning what I myself believe--that IS their right!!!-- calls for violence. They call for leadership to be shown through example, and yes they very often fall short. Yet again, they do not viciously besmirch and mock, which Fallwell DID do. This man was a demogogue who missed the boat, missed the central message of Christianity itself; and he was also a man who became extremely wealthy in the process, a supposed man of God who was far more interested in power in THIS world then he was in the NEXT...
When it comes to the death of he, himself, I am at best indifferent. He set a very poor example of everything a man of God should stand for.
His message was negative, extremely negative. I see nothing positive to counterbalance that negativity in anything he ever said or did.
The Catholic Church, which is against homosexuality, led demands in my old home town for immediate research into AIDS 'before thousands died a terrible death' when that disease first appeared. It was the Cardinal-Archbishop of NY who called for and demanded action, while a Falwellesque fundamentalist who was Surgeon General--the highest medical post in the US govt--said they deserved it as a punishment from God. It was the Roman Catholic Cardinal who gave NY the finest AIDS hospice system in the entire US and possibly the world, and NOBODY was ever turned away. If you didn't have money to enter such a hospice they didn't care. They turned NOBODY away. They were determined to provide a place where sufferers could die in dignity, and I knew several who were angry with the Church, who were non-Catholic, who had no religion, who thanked God and man for those hospices and did die there with dignity.
There are various aspects of 'gay life', adhered to by minorities within 'gayness',which are completely at odds with the message of BBM, aspects I myself have never wanted any part of. I think they are destructive. But to 'outcast' gay people who act in ways I want nothing to do with PERSONALLY???? No way. Not my right. This Fallwell made it his right to give blanket condemnation of EVERYTHING gay or lesbian or bi. And he all but called for violence against anything gay. He always cannily stopped just short of advocating social violence, but it was the next step. Left to him, those AIDS sufferers would have died in the street.
The Catholics and Episcopalians and Presbyterians, when NY could not build housing in devastated areas of Brooklyn and the Bronx, said give us the job and let us build them. They built thousands of 1 ans 2 and 3 family homes. Sold them at cost. Got the job done fast and well. I may be very wrong in my memory but I have a distinct rememberence of Fallwell condemning the action as socially irresponsible. { If I AM wrong, please point it out---like I said I may be conflating it with another thing he did...}
What is Christian about THAT?
I respect the grief of his family and shed no tears for him, death is our common lot and end, I did not know him and see no reason to feel sad at his passing. I won't rejoice, but won't mourn him either, in far too many ways this person perverted a Christianity I respect.
In that sense, I'm glad he has been removed from the scene.
I said my feelings were complex; you may add kafkaesque as well, after all, Prague is just down the block from you ! :D.
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hahahaha....they can't be kafkaesque - i still understand ;D
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Rockmount rocks. ;D
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So, lovelyamazing's wonderful site has finally made TDS!!!
That is good news, very good news. Somehow, what Maya once called her' Little Homespun & Made In India Website' has achieved an attitude and slant very difficult if not impossible to find in the West. It manages to combine Western pragmatism with the spirituality of the subcontinent, discusses difficult issues with wit combined with seriousness....and looks for solutions. Maya founded this site because she was inspired by the creativity, activism and progressive views espoused by the Gyllenhaal family, and she works hard to maintain that connection!
Hidebound it is not.
SMG is so different and so unique it attracted the notice and support of Stephen Gyllenhaal. That's no mean feat considering the sheer number of websites on the internet, not even taking into account the fact that it is based in Bengal!
It's one of those rare websites where you can discuss important and not so important issues and events in a situation PACKED with courtesy. A lot of DCF regulars go there, the tone is so different that once you explore and post, you keep going back. And on a personal level it was really nice to find out that the Gyllenhaals liked what I had written so much they wanted copies of the review I wrote for Stephen's poetry reading in Boulder this winter. Maya sent it off, and when I found that out it made my day. Stephen is a very nice, cool, funny, passionate guy, but regardless.... it was a very kind thing for Maya to do, for me as well as the Gyllenhaals! I love her AND her site.
After the BBQ takes place and "Real Life" calms down a bit, I will be back to SMG on a daily basis. It's one of my all-time favorite places to go on the entire internet, and Maya does one marvelous job of making it a complete pleasure, and an intriguing pleasure.
Keep up the good work Maya, and thanks for publicising her site, TDS!!!!!
It's just...great. An achievement if there ever was one.
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I'm honored to have my Forum featured on TDS. I still recall the first ever time I got a mention in TDS last September for a photo I posted on Eyelashes, which was soon followed by a piece on my then signature which has been now revived in a somewhat different form ;D It was overwhelming. I was in a whirl and telling all my RL friends. I will always have very fond feelings for TDS and how it enabled me to build my confidence and "find my voice".
So, lovelyamazing's wonderful site has finally made TDS!!!
That is good news, very good news. Somehow, what Maya once called her' Little Homespun & Made In India Website' has achieved an attitude and slant very difficult if not impossible to find in the West. It manages to combine Western pragmatism with the spirituality of the subcontinent, discusses difficult issues with wit combined with seriousness....and looks for solutions. Maya founded this site because she was inspired by the creativity, activism and progressive views espoused by the Gyllenhaal family, and she works hard to maintain that connection!
Thank you Jack for expressing such heartfelt appreciation of my young forum. I must add here that it would not exist without the amazing support of those who have joined as well as many who drop in as guests and enjoy reading and occasional posting. I am overwhelmed at the diversity and the deeply intelligent and sensitive outlook of the people who have come forward and expressed themselves on SMG.
SMG is so different and so unique it attracted the notice and support of Stephen Gyllenhaal. That's no mean feat considering the sheer number of websites on the internet, not even taking into account the fact that it is based in Bengal!
I must mention here that it was a real joy to speak to Stephen Gyllenhaal over phone and for those who may have missed it back in February, here is the link Strike Me Gyllen Inaugural Event -- Stephen Gyllenhaal in Boulder (http://gyllenhaal.suddenlaunch3.com/index.cgi?board=boulder) Jack and Beckela both had the pleasure of talking to Mr G in person.
It's one of my all-time favorite places to go on the entire internet, and Maya does one marvelous job of making it a complete pleasure, and an intriguing pleasure.
My dear departed mother was the driving force and she will be happy wherever she is to read this post jack.
It's just...great. An achievement if there ever was one.
A collective achievement, Jack, it must never be forgotten. The posters and vistors take no small part of the credit, not forgetting the "omnipresent" Gyllenhaals.
I just want to add a note to anyone wanting more information --- please feel free to pm me here. I respond to each and every pm and fast too :) ;) Guests can read everything and reply on most threads without registration. Just go to any board of your choice. I think TDS has mentioned that for registration(you will get more facilities like pm and editing and really be a part of the family in all ways) you can send a mail to gyllensite@gmail.com --- you can also PM me here.
Much love and look forward to seeing you all
Lovelyamazing/Mayalakshmi
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Jack, you have said it all beautifully! And accurately. Lovely, your unique perspective (and your Mom's) opens minds and inspires us all. Thank you -- and I, of course, will continue to visit SMG regularly. Thank you for creating such a classy site.
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Thank you to TDS for the spotlight on LovAm's site!
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I learnt about Lovely’s SMG a few days after I started posting here and it was a wonderful surprise to me.
Firstly because I love the Four Gyllenhaals.
Each one as a unique person and all together as a pretty and liberal family.
Then I am very much interested in the topics that are analyzed at this Forum.
Also Lovely introduces the subjects precisely and informatively.
The posters there present very constructive thoughts and opinions which intrigue my mind and my emotions for further evaluation.
And last but not least her motto “Activism through Arts” means a lot to me since I believe that Arts is a spectacular oasis for every human and at every phase of its life.
I don’t post often (as I don’t post often at DCF too) but I love the feeling that SMG exists and I can go there whenever I can to fulfill my brain and my heart.
I know that going there I improve myself.
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Just wanted to alert you to a story about two longtime-partnered gay flamingoes who hatched and raised an abandoned chick:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/britainanimalsgay;_ylt=As361C2TxHGw6vm4iwEzVJHtiBIF
Nice little story for TDS!
Betty/neatfreak
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Just wanted to alert you to a story about two longtime-partnered gay flamingoes who hatched and raised an abandoned chick:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/britainanimalsgay;_ylt=As361C2TxHGw6vm4iwEzVJHtiBIF
Nice little story for TDS!
Betty/neatfreak
thank you ! i am right now typing the story ;)
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Gay Flamingos Start Family
Bisexuality may be the norm among flamingos, as spokeswoman Jane Waghorn told the BBC News that same-sex couples among these birds was not unusual and that "if there aren't enough females or they don't hit it off with them, they will pair off with other males." ..
Ahh, so that's the reason... :D :D
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observations on gay penguins have shown that they stay with their gay partner no matter if or how many females are around... so i guess the lack of (appropriate) females can't be a sufficient explanation... ;)
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Are there lesbian flamingos and penguins?
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Are there lesbian flamingos and penguins?
of course ! lesbianism is best known among western gulls, where in the populations that have been researched, 10-15% of the couples turned out to be lesbian ! ;)
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Lovelyamazing:
Success
I'm the lowest servant to the stars,
slave to the leaves.
Everything escapes my cold breath.
My victories were never my own
just mistakes gone wrong.
I put my shoulder to the thing
and it uncoils
sinks,
perhaps I'll break like glass,
a billion faux diamonds
pulled into the undertow
or worse,
I'll run the show.
--Stephen Gyllenhaal
Keep up the good work, Maya! :-*
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Lovelyamazing:
Success
My victories were never my own
just mistakes gone wrong.
--Stephen Gyllenhaal
Keep up the good work, Maya! :-*
Thank you Yeaah :-*
And particularly for quoting one of my mother's favorite Gyllenpoems.
And I have repeated our favorite line from that
And yes -- we are all in the good work together aren't we?
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(((((((MAYA)))))))
Loved your profile, dear one!
Rob
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(((((((MAYA)))))))
Loved your profile, dear one!
Rob
((((((((Rob)))))))) you are one of those who enabled me to regain composure and look ahead.
Thank you for being there for me :-*
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(((((((MAYA)))))))
Loved your profile, dear one!
Rob
((((((((Rob)))))))) you are one of those who enabled me to regain composure and look ahead.
Thank you for being there for me :-*
When we look close enough we will find that we are all surrounded by those pushing us forward.
It is us, as individuals, who take those steps... who choose to move.
Keep it moving, Dear Maya!
Kisses,
Rob
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^^^^^^^^^^^
what he said
love to Rob
love to Maya
love to all the truly lovelyamazing TDS editors !!
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(((((((Much love to you, too, Ingburger!)))))))
:-* :-* :-*
Rob
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Always read & enjoy TDS. So many THX again!
Enjoyed your write-up of Film Quarterly's special BBM issue. I tracked it down at a libr and would recommend it. Great to see our movie get some more attn! Esp loved the well-deserved, imho, shout-out to dcf!!
However, while reading some of the articles I thought to myself, and I in no way mean this negatively, they were interesting articles....but on many threads of this forum I've read deeper, better thought-out, and better expressed "criticism & interpretation" of BBM. In one of his recent posts Dave Cullen said he brags to his friends about the smart people his forum has attracted. I liked that! And it's certainly true from what I've read here.
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Thanks for yet another fine Sheet,
I'm still hoping I'll get my copy of Film Quarterly sometime in the remaining year...I'm loosing faith.
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In one of his recent posts Dave Cullen said he brags to his friends about the smart people his forum has attracted. I liked that! And it's certainly true from what I've read here.
True words, Melby. And ain't it beautiful that way? ;)
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A special thank you for the story on our dear Mayalakshmi! You are one special lady, my dear Sister. Bless you! :-*
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Let's See a Home Run
If you go to see the new comedy Knocked Up, you won't see Ben (Seth Rogen) and Alison (Katherine Heigl) watching a DVD of Brokeback Mountain - the scene has been cut. But thanks to YouTube, you can still find out what Ben's objection to the movie was. One of his lines gives a hint: "If we went to a baseball game and whenever a guy was about to hit the ball they cut away, would you be happy? No! I wanna see a f***kin' home run!"
Just read about this in TDS. Wonder why it was cut out?
Was it a homophobic scene, or just not amusing? Why
weren't they watching crash? Will it be on the dvd release?
Do I want paper or plastic? (They never ask if you want both.)
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Just like to point out that 'US actor' Alan Cummings, (TDS- 6th June) while indeed based in the US, is in fact Scottish ;D :-*.
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Just like to point out that 'US actor' Alan Cummings, (TDS- 6th June) while indeed based in the US, is in fact Scottish ;D :-*.
which is why he was able to marry under UK law ;)
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isn't his name alan cumming?
he has a cologne out called cumming.
and i dont' think it sold very well over here...
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.avclub.com%2Fcontent%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Favclub_review1151.thumbnail_0.jpg&hash=0f2906ef46c12d6aa2abed101f7c230c9500dc0f)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg228.exs.cx%2Fimg228%2F865%2Fstaralan7nu.jpg&hash=8d193f2db1ebf142ccfddd339c69f845ddbd42c4)
i wonder why? ;D
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A special thank you for the story on our dear Mayalakshmi! You are one special lady, my dear Sister. Bless you! :-*
As YOU ARE Dear Sis :-*. After Andy's visit which has shown us that such miracles do happen, I just can't wait to meet you in person.
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What an interesting life you've led, doodler! Thanks for sharing!
Also, I hope you don't mind, but I just had to share these pics of your dog Emma. How cute!
- KH
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.imageevent.com%2Flwsledge%2Fdoodlersdogemma%2Fsmall%2FPets%25202%2520-%252078.jpg&hash=e9dde224579e34911e32dfb1cee2d92ef81b662b)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.imageevent.com%2Flwsledge%2Fdoodlersdogemma%2Fsmall%2FPets%25202%2520-%252077.jpg&hash=378fbcb91c76857163e4a18e6db86c7eb2727fe3)
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What an adorable pup!!!
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isn't his name alan cumming?
he has a cologne out called cumming.
and i dont' think it sold very well over here...
i wonder why? ;D
jimmy, you're absolutely right. don't know how this mistake could have happened....
marcia, could you edit the typo in the life ball article, please ? thanks !
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As YOU ARE Dear Sis :-*. After Andy's visit which has shown us that such miracles do happen, I just can't wait to meet you in person.
Some day, my Sister, some day. *see my sig line for Boris's comment.*
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Some day, my Sister, some day. *see my sig line for Boris's comment.*
You know that I really believe that Sis, I do :-*
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Love getting to know my Survivor/Amazing Race buddy---Doodler! You have led a very interesting life and I am glad that you are here to share it with all of us!
Love April
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P.S:
Let's See a Home Run
If you go to see the new comedy Knocked Up, you won't see Ben (Seth Rogen) and Alison (Katherine Heigl) watching a DVD of Brokeback Mountain - the scene has been cut. But thanks to YouTube, you can still find out what Ben's objection to the movie was. One of his lines gives a hint: "If we went to a baseball game and whenever a guy was about to hit the ball they cut away, would you be happy? No! I wanna see a f***kin' home run!"
I saw the film this weekend and while this scene is cut out, there is a scene in a bookstore where they are buying baby books and they are standing in front of a shelf that has the movie version edition of the short story and the story to screenplay books clearly visible for all to see.
...for what it's worth
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Loving versus Virginia - the perfect title !
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How wonderful to see A.Proulx' handwriting!
It's so sweet of her to respond to our book.
Lauragigs, your artwork is beautiful, IMO it conveys the universality of BBM while illustrating Jack and Ennis's mystical link. Well done.
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:o How wonderful!!! :) :-*
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.imageevent.com%2Flwsledge%2Fannie%2Flarge%2FAnnie%2520Proulx%25202%2520-%25206.jpg&hash=7ca9cc33b78567a6dc5b57136cc1e959fbcdc5a9)
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Jan, thank you for getting the book into Annie's hands (and to all of you who saw that a copy went to the others). Is Annie a cool lady, or what?
"Speed the day." indeed!
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Given human nature, I kinda doubt Annie's hope that Brokeback Mountain will one day seem "quaint and weird'. Hasn't happened to Romeo and Juliet after four centuries...
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So cool to see Annie's note to Jan regarding "Beyond Brokeback".
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Hi Guys -- Glad you all enjoyed Annie's note. It was funny when I brought the mail in the other day. I saw the card right away and the Cheyenne, WY postmark. -- My first reaction (since I don't know anyone in WY) was, "Who in the heck is this from?" . It had been a few weeks since I originally mailed the book and had forgotten about it. Anyway, I was thinking that it was probably some wedding invitation from some friend's son/daughter and I was already picturing what would be an easy gift to mail! It was such a nice surprise to have it be from Annie -- and, yes, to not have to buy a wedding gift! LOL!
Just so you know, I had signed the book, "From your friends at the Ultimate Brokeback Forum" - and the date.
Jan
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Thanks so much for sharing the letter from Annie- I am so happy she responded in such a womderful way- I hope we receive more notes, letters from the other BBM crew sometime in the future-
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Jan, thanks so much for sharing that. It means a lot, I know, especially to those who worked so hard on the book project. It was sweet of her to respond to your thoughtful gesture in such a positive way!
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Jan - great to see the card from Annie Proulx. I sent a copy of this to the UK academic who may be our first reviewer apart from Annie; what excellent company he is now keeping :D
keep up the good work,
Chris
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Great profile of Namdak and baby Julian. I love Julian's name and the story behind it.
Also I am so excited Rodney has worked up a one man show. Take it on the road!
Meanwhile, I came back from my long trip only to find that, in three piles of mail, my Film Quarterly has still NOT arrived. :'(
I wrote to the circulation manager today (Nick Lindsay) -- he is the man who originally wrote to thank us for bumping their orders when Marge_Innavera featured the Brokeback film quarterly in TDS -- way back in March or April, I forget.
I told him I was worried the mag might go out of print before I get it! He sent this message in reply:
Hi Ellen,
Sorry that you've had to endure the wait. Can you please tell anyone on the BB Forum who did not get their issue to contact me directly? We'll send it out ASAP via Fed Ex or UPS. Don't worry about it going out of print -- I was at the warehouse yesterday and saw several cartons of that issue.
Again, my apologies for any delays, and please feel free to post this note to the BB Forum to let people know.
Thanks,
Nick
Hi e-mail is nick.lindsay@ucpress.edu
I hope my experience is not wide spread -- but if you are still waiting, send him a line.
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I loved the story of Namdak and his family. Thank you, Daily Sheet! :-* :-* :-*
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I loved Jan's reply from Annie. It doesn't get any bette, does it Jan, then to go to the mail and find a Prouxlian surprise!!!
I liked Namdak's profile...
and I like that my bud Ellen is back from her romantic journey....we missed you at the bbq Ellen but somehow, I think you managed to cope roflmao....
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Don't know if I'm writing to the correct place -- maybe you all can help.
I ordered 2 paperback copies of 'Beyond Brokeback' in March -- my payment was deducted on my Visa statement. I haven't received my copies yet, so I sent an email to wingspan -- so far no answer; no books. Has anyone else had this problem; what do you suggest?
Sorry if TDS is the wrong place to go, but didn't know what else to do. Feel I've waited long enough -- I'm dying to read the book.
Thanks and apologies if I've contacted the wrong thread.
Nikki
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I will ask KittyHawk if we can get an update from Wingspan, Nikki. Thx for writing.
BTW thx to BB1 for the welcome back -- ;D ;D ;D
Yes I did miss all you guys and your high-altitude experience in Denver, I would love it if I could be in two places at once!
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CactusGal,
Thanks for sharing the note from Annie P., it was so nice!
To the TDS editors: The Diane Rehm show on NPR frequently showcases books during the second hour of the program. Maybe Dave or some other Brokies could get on the show to promote Beyond Brokeback? It's worth a shot! Here's the website:
http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/
In addition, NPR also has shows like Fresh Air with Terry Gross, http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13, which may be worth a shot.
I love TDS, and continue to read it often. Thanks to you all!
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CactusGal,
Thanks for sharing the note from Annie P., it was so nice!
To the TDS editors: The Diane Rehm show on NPR frequently showcases books during the second hour of the program. Maybe Dave or some other Brokies could get on the show to promote Beyond Brokeback? It's worth a shot! Here's the website:
http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/
In addition, NPR also has shows like Fresh Air with Terry Gross, http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13, which may be worth a shot.
I love TDS, and continue to read it often. Thanks to you all!
I think the angle that would be most interesting for many in media would be the phenomenon of the forum itself - the fact that this forum has purchased advertising in major venues, and has now published a book.
We are an example of 21st century community - people from all over the world uniting in a common interest to accomplish a variety of missions: support for one another, etc., has grown into something quite unique. Does anyone else know of any cyber community that has sprung up as a result of a work of literature and film?
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I have wondered for a while if the media would be interested in the phenomena that is the Ultimate Brokeback Forum. We started off discussing a film and a work of literature, but now we are meeting up with each other,and supporting each other. We are I think a force for understanding between people of both sexes and all sexualities all over the world.
If we have become an international forum that promotes understanding between the gay and straight worlds and we are all good friends who can share a laugh too, it's not a bad record is it?
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High five to Marge_Innavera for the clever paraphrase of Ennis in the AFI story -- "do you ever get the feeling when people look at you ..."
;D ;D ;D
oh, we might as well laugh, through our tears. :P
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I have wondered for a while if the media would be interested in the phenomena that is the Ultimate Brokeback Forum. We started off discussing a film and a work of literature, but now we are meeting up with each other,and supporting each other. We are I think a force for understanding between people of both sexes and all sexualities all over the world.
If we have become an international forum that promotes understanding between the gay and straight worlds and we are all good friends who can share a laugh too, it's not a bad record is it?
Janjo...
Our forum is like our movie...
Where would we all be right now if this place (or our movie) didn't come along?
Who'd've thought I'd be spending part of last weekend with friends from Finland who were visiting mutual friends in a small town in South Central Washington that I never knew existed until just over a year ago.
Who'd've thought that I'd find the love of my life in the tiny village of Ardleigh, near Colchester, Essex, England... of all places?! (And I live in the small town of Puyallup, WA... who among you out there had heard of this place before the forum? LOL!)
Again, without our movie and Dave Cullen's brilliant idea of forming this forum so many people around this tiny planet of ours would never have met. It's become my home, with worldwide friends who are also my brothers and sisters...
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From today's TDS article:
Where have all the Gay Cowboys Gone? asks Brian Juergens, at Afterelton.com. “…now, nearly … 18 months post- Brokeback, we're still not seeing any uptick in gay films — now or in the production pipeline. If anything, we're seeing fewer.… it's troubling that there are a few notable gay film projects that are still stuck in the development limbo that they've been in for a number of years now — development one might think would have been accelerated by Brokeback's breakout success.
My opinion: The gay press was reluctant to call Hollywood on it's homophobia when BBM did not win the bp oscar, trying to smooth it over with platitudes and excuses (afterelton was the exception by the way). It is my opinion that BBM scared the **** out of the homophobes and as a result, Hollywood is taking a step backwards. Instead of more projects, there are less. Homophobes don't want things like BBM to be made. They want "don't ask, don't tell." I read a similar article to this recently and a studio exec was quoted as saying that it wasn't true because there's films like "I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry" being made. (Don't even get me going on that one!)
I saw a screening of The Color Purple the other night and a couple actors remarked that there hadn't been a major studio film like that since Sounder in 1972, 14 years earlier! If Hollywood treats BBM like that, we won't see another film like BBM for a long time...
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Your comment is very interesting Lyle, and very pertinent to the TCM series that I've been watching this month. Richard Barrios referred to 'The Boys In The Band' as a watershed film - a sort of cinematic Stonewall in his introduction to it this week. And he also talked about how 'Staircase' was a terrible flop at the box office and how that held back LGBT film for years afterwards. I wonder a lot about that sentiment - we have been looking for 'the film' that would change it all for a long time. I'm not sure that's fair to any one film - and I think we may be building ourselves up for unfair expectations and disappointment.
In the revised version of 'The Celluloid Closet' Vito Russo basically said that we should tell Hollywood where to put it, because the future was in independent film. I'm not sure about that - it was probably appropriate for him to say in 1987 with the rise of ACT-UP and an alternative queer sensibility to film that was forming.
It's possible that we won't see a film like BBM for a long time from Hollywood. But I have to tell you that I'm inspired after seeing the films at the Frameline festival this last week. There was a short in the festival from Brazil about a cowboy who is in the process of coming out that was inspired in part by BBM. And at a screening of 'Black, White + Grey' (a documentary on Robert Mapplethorpe and Sam Wagstaff) there was a very handsome man wearing a 'Brokeback Mountain' t-shirt - I told him that he had inspired me (I put my 'Donnie Darko' button on my volunteer shirt for the festival).
'Brokeback Mountain' was incredibly important because of the reach it had into theaters - and I truly hope we see more popular films with the breadth and scope (and market) of it. But if not, there are an incredible array of independent films that will keep us going while we wait.
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I read a similar article to this recently and a studio exec was quoted as saying that it wasn't true because there's films like "I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry" being made. (Don't even get me going on that one!)
Oh God. Leave it to a Hollywood studio exec to equate "BBM" with "I Now Pronounce You Chuck & Larry". :P ::)
Hey, why not equate "The Hours" with "White Girls"? Hollywood is deep in a coma.
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A wonderful daily sheet, as usual.
Sort of saddened, but not surprised about Walmart! I even wrote them a letter of thanks when they decided to sell BBM.
And the mention of Brokeback and the Oscars, I still have not recovered from that one!!
Great article about Stonewall. I must have lived under a rock for much of my life, because even though I have heard many references to it, I didn't know the particulars, thanks for a great, concise article. And now for a very naive question - the raids by the police, what were they arresting the people for? Couldn't gay people frequent the bar of their choice?
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A wonderful daily sheet, as usual.
Sort of saddened, but not surprised about Walmart! I even wrote them a letter of thanks when they decided to sell BBM.
And the mention of Brokeback and the Oscars, I still have not recovered from that one!!
Great article about Stonewall. I must have lived under a rock for much of my life, because even though I have heard many references to it, I didn't know the particulars, thanks for a great, concise article. And now for a very naive question - the raids by the police, what were they arresting the people for? Couldn't gay people frequent the bar of their choice?
Good question, Stilllearning - the raid took place during an election campaign when there was talk of 'cleaning up' Sheridan Square. There were a number of people in drag at the bar and people in drag were normally arrested at bar raids. There's a good write up on it here:
http://groups.msn.com/farmingtonNMgaymen/stonewall.msnw
And here is a web page from Columbia University on the riots:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/eresources/exhibitions/sw25/case1.html
And if you're generally interested in Gay History, please stop by the thread dedicated to it:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=20158.0
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How can the American Family Association be so dishonest? This is beyond my comprehension.
They do not provide a link to the proposed bill, they provide a link to yet another stupid interpretation of it.
Are their members blind? They would sign a petition based on bias? JHC this is mind bogling!!
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Loved today's TDS -- a great mix of stories, info, pics and whimsy!
(Miltary history story was fascinating.)
I searched a bit, myself, but I wonder if any member can find a
pic of the poster referenced in the Key Art Awards story!
The Key Art Awards has a special Student Awards category...
The winner, Magaly Sanchez from California State University Northridge created a Brokeback poster that the Hollywood Reporter publisher John Kilcullin said "did an excellent job of conveying the movie's story line, and invites viewers to experience the film."
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Lyle, Marge_Innavera searched and searched for a picture of the poster to no avail. If it later comes to light, we'll post a follow-up story.
Thanks,
- KH
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Lyle, Marge_Innavera searched and searched for a picture of the poster to no avail. If it later comes to light, we'll post a follow-up story.
Thanks,
- KH
I found her email address on the college web site and emailed her, I'll let you all know if she answers back.
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Good question, Stilllearning - the raid took place during an election campaign when there was talk of 'cleaning up' Sheridan Square. There were a number of people in drag at the bar and people in drag were normally arrested at bar raids. There's a good write up on it here:
http://groups.msn.com/farmingtonNMgaymen/stonewall.msnw
And here is a web page from Columbia University on the riots:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/eresources/exhibitions/sw25/case1.html
Thanks, I read both article and learned a lot, I appreciate the references.
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The inscription on that tomb stone of the Vietnam vet was so powerful:
"They gave me a metal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one."
My goodness.
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Thank you for yet another fine DS
Whitman seeing the cart full of soldier's limbs just broke my heart.
The photos of men together put it back together again.
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The inscription on that tomb stone of the Vietnam vet was so powerful:
"They gave me a metal for killing two men and a discharge for loving one."
My goodness.
Interestingly, there in Congressional Cemetery, Matlovich's grave, upon which that inscription lies, is just a few plots down from where J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson are buried. Not together, but in adjacent plots. (The former longtime FBI director and Tolson were partners in every sense of the word, for those who are too young to remember).
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Amazon may list the book as unavailable, but now carry three really nice reviews of the book :D
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Oh, Chris, thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't seen the third very nice review.
I just checked the book on amazon.co.uk and at least it doesn't say unavailable. It says four to six weeks. And we have Dr. Pullen's very nice review there.
- KH
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Oh dear, whien I try just now it says unavailable :(
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I just wanted to let you know how much I liked the profile of tfferg in the July 6th edition of the Daily Sheet. I particularly loved the picture of him with Somphong. It was great to get to know him better - thanks so much!
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The “Brokie Express” Train Trip – Sunday 07/22
On Sunday 07/22, a few of us Brokies from the forums are taking my friend Burt’s private CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR rail car, The Silver Lariat, up the California Coast! We will attach onto the back of Amtrak’s Coast Starlight train and travel from Los Angeles Union Station up the coast to San Jose and Oakland (San Francisco)! You are invited to join us on “The Brokie Express”!
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=23241.0
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Happy holidays Martina! (and all the TDS team of course).
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I didn’t create Jack’s hats; I just re-posted the pictures. I’m not sure who did the photoshopping or even if all the hat pictures were made by the same person.
Many of the pictures posted in Photoshopped BBM Images were not made by the persons who posted them.
The sentence was replaced with one just referring to who posted them.
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RE: Vanity Fair Online poll...
Y'all have a link that leads to an English version?
This here West Coast American redneck can't read no German!
I "upped" both Heath and Jake, I'm thinking, and wondering "how on earth can Michael Jackson top our boys on ANYTHING?"
(Except dancing, maybe!)
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Hi Rob -- well, I did look for English, but couldn't find it. This German link is the one the 'lashers are using.
LOL who knows WHAT we're voting for?
Sounds to me like you got the gist of it -- you vote for someone by "topping", and you vote against someone by "flopping"
;D
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Cool!
I'll be watching the results!
;D
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I'm just saying... you all deserve kudos for getting another good issuee of TDS written, formatted and posted in face of all the technical difficulties throughout the night and day.
Congrats, gang.
- Lydia
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You seem to be able to keep clicking on that Vanity Fair thing indefinitely.....
Vanity indeed :D
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Great Sheet yet again!
Thanks for the fine work.
You all ROCK!!!
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You seem to be able to keep clicking on that Vanity Fair thing indefinitely.....
Vanity indeed :D
I noticed that, too, Chris!
I gave the boys my share of clicks and more, as well as a couple of down clicks on the guys above them!
-KH
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Further to the comment about our XXXXX of a Prime Minister ruling out same sex marriages. We have had this XXXX for 11 years so be thankful your Presidents cannot go beyond 8. He is trying for another 3 years and there are some signs he may fail, please God. However Australians may profess support for human rights but when they get to the ballot box, it is their interest rates or other economic affairs that matter and they believe this guy's lies about the opposition.
We have a judge, Justice Kirby, on the High Court who is openly gay. He is about 5 or 6 years older than me, went to the same primary and high school. I was in the same class as his brother also a judge. We went to the same university but he studied law and went to the top and I studied arts and education and became a non-descript teacher-librarian :). At least I have retired first, Judges can stay to 70. However in the news this week, the parliament is debating conditions for High Court judges and Justice Kirby has asked that in the event of his death, his superannuation be given to his over 30 years male partner as would happen if he was a heterosexual. This XXXX Pime Minister Howard has ruled it out. For XXXXX insert the worst expletive you would use. I would not like to be thrown off the forum for what I use about him ;D
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:D
thanks to John, or whoever has been sweating blood over this - seems to be working again
:D
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Thank you for providing a link to the Movie Locations Thread. I'd like for more people to know about it, and maybe to post their pictures during the upcoming Pilgrimage there. Really appreciate it!
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Further to the comment about our XXXXX of a Prime Minister ruling out same sex marriages. We have had this XXXX for 11 years so be thankful your Presidents cannot go beyond 8. He is trying for another 3 years and there are some signs he may fail, please God. However Australians may profess support for human rights but when they get to the ballot box, it is their interest rates or other economic affairs that matter and they believe this guy's lies about the opposition.
We have a judge, Justice Kirby, on the High Court who is openly gay. He is about 5 or 6 years older than me, went to the same primary and high school. I was in the same class as his brother also a judge. We went to the same university but he studied law and went to the top and I studied arts and education and became a non-descript teacher-librarian :). At least I have retired first, Judges can stay to 70. However in the news this week, the parliament is debating conditions for High Court judges and Justice Kirby has asked that in the event of his death, his superannuation be given to his over 30 years male partner as would happen if he was a heterosexual. This XXXX Pime Minister Howard has ruled it out. For XXXXX insert the worst expletive you would use. I would not like to be thrown off the forum for what I use about him ;D
Brian, I do hope that there will be a strong enough and widespread feeling in the marginal electorates that it's time for a change. Maybe a new government would legislate for same-sex partners to be treated equally with wives in Commonwealth superannuation and other matters so that dear Michael Kirby's wish could be fulfilled. I reckon it would take some campaigning to get the ALP moving on it - they may not see it as an urgent priority.
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Great TDS feature on SamChez's epic journey. The pic of Childress cemetary with the caption about Lureen putting a stone up stopped me in my tracks. I've never thought much on that part of the story but now I have a view of a couple of cars making their way through those gates that symbolise grief so well & perhaps a small sombre gathering, Bobby & Lureen returning by themselves on the anniversary. Very sad. :( but thanks for the interesting trip report. Looking forward to Pt 2 :)
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Great story on the travel up to Lightning Flat, can't imagine actually being there, it evoked emotions just seeing the pictures and hearing about the trip.
Also, the story about bullying was really good, great info.
Thanks
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Below is a post about a possible BBM play. It could be a rumor, but wouldn't it be nice if it came to pass?:
http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/14121817.html
Great job as usual, TDS rocks!
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I don't know where to post this, but I'm going to LA in September, and I know the West has numerous wild fires. I'm an asthmatic, and I'd like ask, if I go, how much smoke will I encounter?
If anyone on the Forum lives in LA or the area, please PM me. I will be very grateful!
Thanks!
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I don't know where to post this, but I'm going to LA in September, and I know the West has numerous wild fires. I'm an asthmatic, and I'd like ask, if I go, how much smoke will I encounter?
If anyone on the Forum lives in LA or the area, please PM me. I will be very grateful!
Thanks!
I would check here:
http://www.aqmd.gov/smog/
And here:
http://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=airnow.showlocal&CityID=130
{psssst...come to the bay area...we have much better air quality.... ;) :D}
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Many thanks for the links, Michael! And by the way, it would not take much to persuade me to move to San Francisco or the Bay Area. I'm sick to death of Miami and the heat! But I'm disabled, and your fair city is far too expensive. But if you have any ideas for outlying areas that are less costly, I would sure sure like to hear it!
Thanks again!
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Below is a post about a possible BBM play. It could be a rumor, but wouldn't it be nice if it came to pass?:
http://community.livejournal.com/ohnotheydidnt/14121817.html
Great job as usual, TDS rocks!
Another story on the same rumor
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/07/24/142404.php (http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/07/24/142404.php)
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BayCityJohn, I sure would love to see it. There's been talk--and a thread on this very Forum--about BBM being turned into an opera. And the themes do lend themselves to a melodramatic, operatic treatment.
Whatever happens, play or opera down the line, I'm there!
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Seems to me a well scripted play would be the first step... and would attract a much wider audience. Then, let operas and ballets follow.
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There has been a play staged in a European city earlier this year, on a much smaller scale than a Broadway show. It was well received I believe & I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in TDS at the time.
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TB, the play to which you refer was performed in Holland. Our member, Conny, saw it and really enjoyed it.
In today's TDS, it was wonderful to read that the bookstore, Lambda Rising, has contacted KittyHawk about acquiring our book. Neat. Way to go, goaboydc. :-*
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Here are two threads from over in Bettermost about people who were planning to see the play, saw it and commented on it. You can find a link to the website of the theater group which performed it in the pages too, but the link and play are in Dutch.
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,8306.0.html
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,8004.0.html
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How did Heath come in at #20 and Jake made #1 on that AfterElton Hot 100 poll? :(
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Lola --
If you go to the AfterElton link -- I think they explain the voting. It was not very scientific -- I'm not sure but something like people could vote for multiple guys, like their top 5, and then I think they were just tallied. I have no idea if it was weighted (whether people voted in order of their favorites).
The initial news I read about this said simply "Jake G is #1 on AfterElton's top 100 list" but when I read that the guys seemed to prefer actors who had played gay, I looked for Heath and sure 'nuff found him!
20 isn't so bad, on a list of 100!
:D
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It certainly isn't, there was alot of hot guys on that list! I hate polls where you can vote as much as you want though, they are kind of pointless, fun, but pointless.
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I was glad to read the article today about the Outfest Legacy Project, that is restoring gay themed films.
I feel like babbling about that a bit...
As a film lover, it is really interesting how fragile the medium really is.
Some examples:
I've read that 50% of films made before 1950 are completely lost.
I read that many movies and tv shows that were filmed on a certain color film stock popular in the early 60's may be lost forever because the original negatives have faded into almost red colors and it would be way too expensive to restore most of them.
Even though Clara Bow saved Paramount Studios in the late 20's with her popular films, some of them no longer exist. Including one called "Red Hair" that had the opening scenes of her in color... Recently, some of that color footage was found and restored and showed at UCLA's film archive theatre... Amazing when things thought lost are discovered and brought back to life...
That is the one thing we CAN thank ampas for. They put alot of expense into film restoration and are especially careful to preserve films that have made their mark on the academy with awards and nominations. BBM will undoubtedly always be around because of that...
If you have not seen the film mentioned in the TDS article, Parting Glances, I would recommend it. Although I haven't seen it in quite along time, it was always one of my favorites. It was released the same year as another gay favorite--Maurice. Interestingly enough, on the special dvd edition of Maurice, there is a thirty minute section of deleted scenes, some of which are only in existence because James Ivory had compiled some of them on a vhs tape for review and had kept that tape. Otherwise, the film elements were destroyed... (FYI: James Ivory will be at ampas for a q&a after a screening of Howard's End on August 20th).
If anyone is interested in this topic--film preservation--may I recommend a film called "Keepers of the Frame".
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thanks for babbling, lyle!
very interesting about the lost films... how utterly unfortunate. i mean, really.... all that work,,, gone. :(
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Found this London ad on joemygod.blogspot.com:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi140.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr13%2Fneatfreak_1%2Fcestsoparis.jpg&hash=c7e75326b4997fd75cf401ce0b15c2dd69ed4e18)
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WOW! Neatfreak, what a find!!!
I love it!!
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If I could respond to the Daily Sheet's notification of "length of time before posts cannot be altered or deleted": I would recommend giving people much more than an hour. In heated discussions, people often come to their senses and wish to edit or retract comments. I'd say at least 8 hours, time to "sleep on it". Edited posts should always be marked that way. It's frustrating on some boards (not this one, so far) to post something, realize your error, and then be unable to fix it because someone else has already posted and your edit/delete chances are gone. This is the same if you post a factual error or an embarrassing comment. Since revisionism hasn't been a huge problem, I would ask for a reasonable amount of time for someone to post, walk away, think, and return to revise.
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Backtobrokeback - just to clarify, currently the time to modify is set at one week, and you are suggesting it should stay that way. When I first read your post I thought -- mmm, did I miss something? one hour?
So for others, I am just clarifying, the time frame has not been tightened to one hour, but in many cases it is that short on other forums.
IMO backtobrokeback you have a good point.
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I was glad to read the article today about the Outfest Legacy Project, that is restoring gay themed films.
I feel like babbling about that a bit...
As a film lover, it is really interesting how fragile the medium really is.
Some examples:
I've read that 50% of films made before 1950 are completely lost.
I read that many movies and tv shows that were filmed on a certain color film stock popular in the early 60's may be lost forever because the original negatives have faded into almost red colors and it would be way too expensive to restore most of them.
Even though Clara Bow saved Paramount Studios in the late 20's with her popular films, some of them no longer exist. Including one called "Red Hair" that had the opening scenes of her in color... Recently, some of that color footage was found and restored and showed at UCLA's film archive theatre... Amazing when things thought lost are discovered and brought back to life...
That is the one thing we CAN thank ampas for. They put alot of expense into film restoration and are especially careful to preserve films that have made their mark on the academy with awards and nominations. BBM will undoubtedly always be around because of that...
If you have not seen the film mentioned in the TDS article, Parting Glances, I would recommend it. Although I haven't seen it in quite along time, it was always one of my favorites. It was released the same year as another gay favorite--Maurice. Interestingly enough, on the special dvd edition of Maurice, there is a thirty minute section of deleted scenes, some of which are only in existence because James Ivory had compiled some of them on a vhs tape for review and had kept that tape. Otherwise, the film elements were destroyed... (FYI: James Ivory will be at ampas for a q&a after a screening of Howard's End on August 20th).
If anyone is interested in this topic--film preservation--may I recommend a film called "Keepers of the Frame".
Yes, I love it when you babble, Lyle. ;)
I believe I have seen the film you recommend. It is a documentary - right?
I've always wondered at the swift deterioration of films, even from the sixties.
I mean, that was not before the dawn of time - right?
And yet, blessed Technicolor, in many cases, has lasted longer than the odious Eastmancolor that
doomed the sixties and seventies. Fragile film stock from the twenties and thirties, you'd expect to be lost,
especially given its propensity to burn or turn to red rust dust...But films from the sixties?
As much as I quibble with AFI's choice of Hundred Best Films, I have to give them credit and thanks
for being one of the first to bring this problem to the forefront.
It is amazing to note the difference between LAWRENCE OF ARABIA left to languish and the restored version
which is bright and beautiful and might have been filmed yesterday.
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Oh Rose, I saw the restored 'Lawrence of Arabia' on the big screen and I have no words to say how grand it was. A masterpiece, in my book anyway.
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Oh Rose, I saw the restored 'Lawrence of Arabia' on the big screen and I have no words to say how grand it was. A masterpiece, in my book anyway.
Yes.
I love the scene atop the train with Lawrence flapping his robes and the crowds
chanting 'Awrence, 'Awrence! I mean, you can understand in that one spectacular moment,
the 'why' of what he did. I mean, who wouldn't? For a moment like that, anyone of us
might be willing to trade a lifetime.
Or at least, think about it. ;)
Also love the best edit EVER: the lit match to the desert landscape - know the one I mean?
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Also love the best edit EVER: the lit match to the desert landscape - know the one I mean?
Of course! And that scene when he sees Omar Sharif as a shimmering dot on the desert horizon and waits for him to make what was to be his very first appearance on screen ever!!!
I love it!
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Backtobrokeback - just to clarify, currently the time to modify is set at one week, and you are suggesting it should stay that way. When I first read your post I thought -- mmm, did I miss something? one hour?
So for others, I am just clarifying, the time frame has not been tightened to one hour, but in many cases it is that short on other forums.
IMO backtobrokeback you have a good point.
My apologies! I read the following two sentences in TDS:
On most sites, a post can only be modified or deleted for a few minutes, or sometimes half an hour--to fix typos, or clarify ambiguity.
We have initially set a limit of one week to modify posts, but we will probably bring that closer in line with other forums, once we work out a few kinks with links threads.
and came to the incorrect conclusion that we were moving toward a half hour or so here at UBB too. A week is ample time, and it would be good to keep it that way. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
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first of all, i want to clarify the exchange between ellen and BTB above. we have moved the timeframe to modify/delete to one week, but we are planning to shorten it significantly. we're still discussing the pros and cons of how long to make it.
If I could respond to the Daily Sheet's notification of "length of time before posts cannot be altered or deleted": I would recommend giving people much more than an hour. In heated discussions, people often come to their senses and wish to edit or retract comments. I'd say at least 8 hours, time to "sleep on it". Edited posts should always be marked that way. It's frustrating on some boards (not this one, so far) to post something, realize your error, and then be unable to fix it because someone else has already posted and your edit/delete chances are gone. This is the same if you post a factual error or an embarrassing comment. Since revisionism hasn't been a huge problem, I would ask for a reasonable amount of time for someone to post, walk away, think, and return to revise.
thanks for that, btb.
that's an interesting question about heated discussions, and whether people should have the chance to sleep on it.
i've thought about that for awhile, and i've been discussing it for a couple weeks, and the conclusion that i have been heading toward is that we have actually been giving people a false sense of security that they can sleep on it. what i'm suggesting is that you never had a chance to sleep on it. and i feel irresponsible if i contributed to the illusion that you did. let me explain:
a lot of arguments go on real time or close to it, and i think that the person who says something regretable and later retracts it often does so after the slighted person has seen it, or heard about it. at the very least, lots of other people have seen it, including people who have been involved in the discussion. much of the "audience" heard the insult.
if any angry person has a chance to vent to others in the room--and possibly the person he's mad at--and then sleeps on it, thinks better of it, deletes the angry post and feels a sense or relief that he corrected his mistake . . . well, frankly, he's kidding himself. you can't have your cake and eat it too. you can't have the satisfaction of blowing your top and yelling the angry remark, and the satisfaction that you held your tongue. you didn't. and destroying the visible evidence that you said it, doesn't unsay it.
if anyone here insults someone and regrets it, and have options--the same options you have if you did it in person or my email, or any other manner. you can apologize. you can say you slept on it and you regret it and you won't say it again. you can say that by PM or preferably on the thread. but no matter what venue you chose to say it the first time, it's impossible to erase it and pretend it didn't happen.
i also wonder how much the delete/modify button acts as an enabler for people who consciously or unconsciously know they can get away with saying something awful, venting out loud to an unknown number of people who will hear it, and then delete it like it never happened. (even if you leave it up just five minutes, you know several people will see it. who knows how many, or whom?)
when you're mad at your girlfriend or you dad or your brother in Rl, and you want to tell them off, you often hold your tongue, because you know that has consequences. you can never unsay it. i think people on our forum in the situation described above should be feeling some of that same reserve: they can say it if they want, but if they choose to say it, it's said.
i don't think we're changing that by shortening the timeframe. i think that has always been true. what we're taking away--or limiting--is the pretense that you can unsay something.
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well, in the few minutes since i posted that, i've been thinking about it and talking about it, and the whole thing is extremely troubling to me.
i have a feeling that my perspective is different from a lot of people here, because i have had a blog for about five years, and run a forum, and have had to face some blunt realities. and for anyone on my forum who has not faced those realities, i feel a responsibility to bring you face to face with them.
i vividly recall a conversation a few years back with a friend who runs a very large blog that gets several hundred thousand readers a day. in our early days, we had both posted a few times after coming home after a few drinks, and we had both regretted it. we had not said anything too awful, but mainly we were afraid to be responsible for the words in print of a drunk or even slightly drunk version of ourselves.
both of us had set ground rules for ourselves that we were strictly forbidden from posting after drinking. (this actually put me in a tight spot the night of the brokeback oscar debacle. i had been working my ass off on the forum, as had most of the mods, and we had discussed in advance who was going to work through the telecast and who was going to take the night off and go play. we had plenty of volunteers, and i was taking the night off. i was cohosting an oscar party at a friend's house, where we expected to be celebrating. i had several cosmos. i was checking in throughout the oscar show, but not posting. then disaster hit, and i felt like i needed to be there, but it was against my rules to post after drinking. i felt like an off-duty cop coming home from a party and spotting a crime.)
anyway, in that case, i did not post for awhile, and talked things through with meli and the other mods privately. after an hour or some period of time, i felt like i had my wits about me enough to start responding. but it was a very tough call.
the point i'm getting to, is that i had several situations where i had to face the fact that i change anything on my blog or on this forum as many times as i want, but if i convinced myself i was actually getting rid of the first thing i posted, i would be in deep denial. it has been cached on servers all over the world. someone has saved it. maybe i'll be lucky and no one will save it this time, or they'll never find it. maybe i won't.
(i think several government officials have also learned this the hard way. you can delete the emails. but they're not gone.)
my blogger friend was the one who said to me, "there is no eraser on the internet." i'm sure she was not the first to say it, but it is a crucial truth to face if you're doing anything on the internet. and that including emailing your mom (especially if you're doing it on your work computer). all those emails you thought you deleted years ago live on.
i vaguely recall trying to hedge after she made the "no eraser" comment "with a "yeah, but . . . " and she cut me off. no. there is no but. who was i kidding? there is no eraser. period. once you hit the enter button, you have said it. forever. and the presence or absence of a delete button or a modify button on your screen does not change that. the best those buttons can do is reduce the number of people who may see it. but if one or more of the primary people involved in the argument have already seen it--there is no delete key to erase it from their mind.
if people are really equating either the delete button or the modify button with a retract button, that seriously worries me.
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ok, hopefully most people know this and remember it most of the time. but don't let that harsh reality get away from you. no eraser.
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I used to work in the Pentagon, where we had a saying: "Don't put anything in an email unless you are willing to see it the next day on the front page of the Washington Post."
I think the same advice goes for blogging, only more so.
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I used to work in the Pentagon, where we had a saying: "Don't put anything in an email unless you are willing to see it the next day on the front page of the Washington Post."
I think the same advice goes for blogging, only more so.
ah, thanks. i've heard that, too. and you know a whole lot of people had to learn that the hard way. what some of them meant was "i have put it in an email and seen it on the front page of the Post."
of course posts on this forum are much less likely to reach the Washington Post. but they are VERY likely to reach the person you may have been arguing with.
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Since Dave brought it up......How long are we talking about?
Of course nothing disappears from the net, however we are talking about posts on a blog and not the specs for the B2 bomber.
An hour is much too short. If a deadline needs to be imposed, what's wrong with a week to ten days? Sometimes posts need to be changed. Sometimes people don't go back every day. To tell the truth, I'm wondering why it needs to be imposed at all; is there an over-riding technical reason? I know that very recently another poster and I removed an entire series of posts which were contrary to the spirit and topic of the thread we had put them on. Why? We didn't want to set a bad example.That series of posts discussed what happened when Ken ditched Barbie for GIJoe after Joe was discharged from the military for sexual misconduct. The boys now own a gay muscle-gym together in Bakersfield, CA. Ken is happily being bottomed by Joe, while Barbie has taken up a big blonde lifeguard with pecs and a big whistle.I think it took about 3 weeks for us to remove the conversation..
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{modified by dave to remove grossly off-topic post, as well as a critique of moderators of a different thread which belongs in a private conversation--particularly where the poster was tossing out conjecture about what happened offline that he stated he did not know about. that's not close to being fair to the mods, nor is it something for a group discussion on an unrelated topic.}
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Jack, that was beautifully put. Thank you.
(Modified to add that I was referring to what was removed from bb_1's post, not what was left. Otherwise my post looks rather stupid.)
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first of all, i want to clarify the exchange between ellen and BTB above. we have moved the timeframe to modify/delete to one week, but we are planning to shorten it significantly. we're still discussing the pros and cons of how long to make it.
This has been an interesting discussion, and I agree that we ought to be required to take responsibility for what we post. It's very easy on the Internet to just be seeing words on a screen and be only half-aware that there's a real person behind them. Here's my $.02:
I'd suggest having two different time limits for deleting and modifying, if that's technically do-able in this format. My forum experience prior to the 'BBM obsession' was mainly with forums concentrating on religion and politics, and some of them were just a conversation in a 24/7 war zone. The moderators strongly discouraged deleting posts, and the preferred method of removing one that you had second thoughts about was to modify it with text like "message removed by (author or name) for inappropriate content." If there's a very narrow window for deleting posts but a slightly broader one for modifying them, it might give people more of a chance to do the right thing when they post something they regret. Just a suggestion.
(MESSAGE MODIFIED TO ADD) Could we treat thread closures as a cooling-off period at times; i.e., closing them for a specific length of time and having them on "probation" after that?
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Jack, re the 'ban' post above: Thank you for speaking up publicly. Very well stated.
I hope your post is allowed to stand.
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I'm just adding my $0.02 in regards to the "modify/delete" function on posts.
Please keep in mind that what I'm saying now is my own experience, and not reflective of anyone here at DCF.
DCF is not the only site that I've modded for. I was involved on a music site for some time, and was a "SuperMod" there (what we call Global Mod here).
That music forum had threads on it that were just as volatile as some of the threads here, with name calling going on as well.
When it came to deleting and editing posts, the administration had set a time limit of 5 minutes for users to modify or delete posts. And all moderators were under instruction to NEVER modify or delete a post at the request of the original poster, without the admin's consent.
His policy was, if you put it up there, stand by what you've said and forever hold your peace. If you don't want it online, you shouldn't have posted it in the first place.
Other forums where I am a member have those same policies, and to be honest, I was very surprised at the relaxed policy about editing and deleting here.
In my opinion, a week is excessive.
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Hi all --
On the subject of the time to "modify" posts - that is in response to the daily sheet, so carry on if you have constructive input, for a reasonable period, but maybe it belongs in the tech thread.
On K/NK, that is not in response to the daily sheet, although it could be considered a "letter to the editor." :)
Further discussion on that should be directed in PMs to the chief moderator, Melisande.
brokeback 1, phone call is long overdue. CSI, we can discuss it off-line in our unofficial capacity as forum mates.
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Thank you, Jack :).
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Re: the limit on modifying posts - I'm not in favour. There are all sorts of reasons why someone might want to change a post - on one of the forums I'm on, it's usually because the post is informative and new information needs to be added. I think I've deleted posts a couple of times just because I've later realised that nobody answered, or they were off-topic. I also was planning to delete a couple of posts here from way back when I got round to it - the posts didn't affect anyone else but me - but the option has now been removed. I can quite easily imagining people regretting posting personal information, personal stories, etc. and later wanting to remove them. I do realise that once something's posted it could be saved somewhere, but I don't see that that's a reason to make it even harder for people to try to put things right.
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Well said brokeback_1 in Re: Respond to The Daily Sheet « Reply #1293 » (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=8377.msg961168#msg961168). Did I detect some self moderation there? Other issues arise as a result of that outcome. Should plebiscites of forum members be the final arbiters of disputes.(My apologies to all for the flippancy that was deleted. Of course deletion doesn't negate my having written it, but hopefully it will stand as sufficient retraction. My thanks go to the volunteers who make this site possible.)
On the delete/modify time-limit question:
One problem with any modification or deletion is that the post may have been quoted. Obviously a PM to the quoting poster could rectify the problem posed by the post with the quote, but what if they are not amenable?
(MESSAGE MODIFIED TO ADD)
There is also the point to which Dave seemed to be alluding in Re: Respond to The Daily Sheet « Reply #1289 » (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=8377.msg961106#msg961106) which I understood to be that we should think first and post later. Also if any of the posts on this prior to Dave's are deleted then it might no longer be Reply #1289 and I will appear a bit of a goose, as we say in my part of the planet. I tend to agree with Marge_Innavera in Re: Respond to The Daily Sheet « Reply #1295 » (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=8377.msg961266#msg961266) and suggest that the delete button should made unavailable to a poster once another post has been added to a thread after their post.
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I'd suggest having two different time limits for deleting and modifying, if that's technically do-able in this format. My forum experience prior to the 'BBM obsession' was mainly with forums concentrating on religion and politics, and some of them were just a conversation in a 24/7 war zone. The moderators strongly discouraged deleting posts, and the preferred method of removing one that you had second thoughts about was to modify it with text like "message removed by (author or name) for inappropriate content." If there's a very narrow window for deleting posts but a slightly broader one for modifying them, it might give people more of a chance to do the right thing when they post something they regret. Just a suggestion.
thanks. that's a really useful idea. we'll look into that.
come to think of it, the salon forum TableTalk, which was a brilliant success, and my biggest model for how i wanted to see this place develop allowed no deletions. when a member regretted something within the allowed time (maybe 45 minutes), he/she could post a one-liner saying they had decided to remove it for whatever reason. but there was a record that they had said something.
i think that an in-person discussion is the best model for how a forum should operate. obviously, there are differences online, but generally the more we can make it approximate the real world, the better. when you're talking to someone in a group setting, you can't unsay anything. you can say, "oh, that makes sense, nix what i said before." but you can't unsay it.
in my experience on this forum, i have gotten far more complaints from people frustrated that a member said something nasty and then erased it, essentially disowned their action. on the salon site, people really appreciated that when they got into a scuffle and someone said something bad and then decided to pull it, there was still a record that they had spoken. that seemed very fair to everyone.
i think that once people find themselves on both sides of the situation, most of you will be happy with the outcome. that's my experience from other sites. bottom line, we all need to take responsibility for what we say. and most members tend to be most happy when everyone does take ownership of their statements.
i think you should give it a try and see. if that is not your experience, let us know.
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{psssst...come to the bay area...we have much better air quality.... ;) :D}
Michael, my plans for Los Angeles fell through, and I'm seriously considering going to the screening of BBM at the Castro. But my question is the same as Los Angeles: is the air fit to breathe for asthmatics? Your quote above agrees with The San Francisco Chronicle on line, which lists the air quality as "good".
I'm 90% sure I'll go...but what does your nose tell you? Do you sniff any wildfire smoke in the air? Sorry to be a pest with this subject!
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Hi all --
On the subject of the time to "modify" posts - that is in response to the daily sheet, so carry on if you have constructive input, for a reasonable period, but maybe it belongs in the tech thread.
On K/NK, that is not in response to the daily sheet, although it could be considered a "letter to the editor." :)
Further discussion on that should be directed in PMs to the chief moderator, Melisande.
brokeback 1, phone call is long overdue. CSI, we can discuss it off-line in our unofficial capacity as forum mates.
Tx, Ellen. I was praising another post, not seeking further discussion regarding it, but you're on, anytime, friend! :)
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I'd suggest having two different time limits for deleting and modifying, if that's technically do-able in this format.
I've not discovered a way that it can be done [possibly there is an obscure way to do it, but I've not seen it.] as the software only has one setting for ''edit'', which apparently also includes deletion. The time is set in a text entry box that is calibrated in minutes, so I had to set it at 10,080 to get a week's delay. On most forums, the admins choose to limit allowed edit period to 3 to 5 minutes, but do not allow members to delete at all. A forum where I'm a global mod does not allow even the global mods to fully delete a post, but only to remove it from public view; this is, however, an admin set option on the commercial vBulletin software that forum uses, rather than being the only software behaviour possible.
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i think that an in-person discussion is the best model for how a forum should operate. obviously, there are differences online, but generally the more we can make it approximate the real world, the better. when you're talking to someone in a group setting, you can't unsay anything. you can say, "oh, that makes sense, nix what i said before." but you can't unsay it.
in my experience on this forum, i have gotten far more complaints from people frustrated that a member said something nasty and then erased it, essentially disowned their action. on the salon site, people really appreciated that when they got into a scuffle and someone said something bad and then decided to pull it, there was still a record that they had spoken. that seemed very fair to everyone.
In conversations, however, the words said aren't there in B&W to be analysed or mulled over by someone else. I've occasionally written something in good faith then read it later and winced because I can see that it could be misconstrued.
I'd be inclined to have no deletions once someone else has posted, and modifications for, say, 24 hours, and if someone takes offence or whatever during that time, so be it.
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well, i do subsrcibe to the idea that people have to be aware of what they are saying, even if it is in an online forum. the fact that we only sit in front of our screens and can't look into the eye of the person we are talking to sometimes misleads people to being much more unpolite that they would be in real life. but words in an online forum can also hurt, and everybody has to be aware of that.
on the other hand, if i consider the amount of typos i make and how long it sometimes takes my until i discover and correct them all...i guess i'm in favour of keeping the long modifying times ;D
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Can I second that. We should all bear in mind that our words can hurt and upset, as well make each other laugh and inform.
As to the typo's, oh my goodness yes, sometimes you do not pick them up for days, so I think a week is just about right
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I don't know - the more I think about it the more it bothers me. I think it's because it seems that the option to modify/delete posts is the default option, and that's being changed. It feels to me like tape-recording meetings or telephone conversations so that people stand by what they said - fine if it's something where it's necessary and important, but it doesn't feel right for a forum where people are 'chatting'. There are other reasons to delete posts than them being offensive or mis-spelked. And even if posts were only deleted by the poster because they're offensive - well, isn't that a good thing? Whatever the reason - typos, offensiveness, revealing too much personal info, inappropriate posts, embarrassingly stupid posts, etc. - people may take more than an hour, or a week, before they realise they'd rather delete/modify the post. Why deny them that option?
I checked another forum that I use, and found that I had the ability to modify all my posts, even the ones from months ago. On that forum, people have used the 'edit' option to update information in the original post, which is a useful feature, and there have been absolutely no problems with inappropriate or offensive posts. Nobody is abusing the 'edit' option. It's just a useful feature. I don't know if there HAVE been problems with people causing offence by editing posts here - if so, I haven't noticed.
I will take on board that I should be more cautious about posting - I do think it's good advice - and I will be posting less. But I think it's a shame that the forum feels less of a comfortable place to be.
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TYPOS?
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''On that forum, people have used the 'edit' option to update information in the original post, which is a useful feature, and there have been absolutely no problems with inappropriate or offensive posts. Nobody is abusing the 'edit' option. It's just a useful feature.''
Then that forum is quite different from this one; we have had members delete hundreds of posts in a fit of pique, destroying the sense of threads, even when those particular posts were not in parts of conversation that caused the person to be angry. They've just taken out everything they could. That's abuse of the edit option. Post editing is certainly a useful feature, but it can also readily be abused, so there should be some limit on how far back edit/deletion can go. If there is truly a good reason, like having information in old posts that could threaten the member's real-life security, then they could ask a mod to do it for them. I have to think, though, that if the info has been there for very long that it's already too late to prevent damage. The info will be in search engine caches within a day of its initial appearance on the net. Often within minutes. Not to mention if it's been quoted by someone else.
To address another point: Information that requires updating can always be quoted from an older post and brought up to current status by addtion of the new or revised material. This would actually be better than revising an old post that's buried several pages back; it would be upfront for current attention.
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Whatever the reason - typos, offensiveness, revealing too much personal info, inappropriate posts, embarrassingly stupid posts, etc. - people may take more than an hour, or a week, before they realise they'd rather delete/modify the post. Why deny them that option?
Don't forget, the moderators always have the ability to delete. If there is a good reason to delete someting beyond the time limit, the member simply needs to talk to a mod.
To address another point: Information that requires updating can always be quoted from an older post and brought up to current status by addtion of the new or revised material. This would actually be better than revising an old post that's buried several pages back; it would be upfront for current attention.
Yes, Lance, this is it for me. Why would you want to go back and edit a post from weeks ago -- on a forum that is primarily chat? Who goes back to re-read threads? No one I know. In fact, when we do have a need to share more or less static information that may evolve over time (the reunion threads where we post itineraries, hotel information, etc), it is always done as a separate locked thread or else all of that information gets lost. So if you really want to revise what you said, presumably you want the other participants in the discussion to realize you are revising your statement -- then it only seems relevant to quote it and bring it back into the current discussion.
Monica
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Great edition, TDS Crew, as always.
Loved the NY Times story about [asinine & over-used] emoticons. (-;
Resistance is futile. I must commit emoticon abuse.
:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( >:D
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It is my great pleasure to announce that Forum stalwart and moderator Ellen (tellyouwhat), who has played a significant role in the production of The Daily Sheet for so long, has graciously agreed to become a co-moderator of these threads. As she really needs no introduction to regulars here, I will simply say I am honored to be paired up with her, and know that all of you will join me in extending to her a very warm welcome!
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Congrats to Ellen (TellYouWhat)
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Thanks guys!
Des, looking forward to the partnership. :)
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Very well done, Ellen!
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desertrat--
As a result, the city has set up a 24-hour hot line for victims of gay-related hate crimes, and a network of 30 gay agents within the city's police force to focus on hate crimes. Another idea is getting discussed at the moment - a new law similar to those banning convicted hooligans from soccer stadiums. If passed, the law would allow judges to bar gay bashers from approaching areas surrounding gay bars and pickup spots.
The above quote from TDS has made me a little sad...I wish the US had an attitude as pro-active and progressive toward hate crimes as that in the Netherlands. It's very, very clear what the US position is toward these crimes, and that's that they DON'T CARE about gay people, otherwise they would take the steps necessary to safeguard them. They don't value gay people, or our contribution to the world. Instead, they value "family values"--don't gays have families?--code for "anti-gay". It's just so tragic.
(As proof that we DO have families, and we ARE good parents, take a gander at the film, "We Are Dad" http://imdb.com/title/tt0447538/
about a couple who are pediatric nurses who adopt several special-needs kids, of all races, including an HIV-positive child who required enormous special attention. The love and attention these men gave these children qualifies them for multiple Nobel Peace prizes. Seeing this film should put to rest the notion that gays are "unqualified" to adopt or raise foster children.)
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Did any of you notice that on the call sheet Ennis is played by Keith Fletcher and Jack by Teddy Carrol? Who are these guys?
They can't be stand-ins because of the character numbers, Ennis being 1 (fist role) Jack 2(second role) and Alma 3 (third role).
Michèle Williams is rightly identified as Alma.
Weird huh?
Edited for typo
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desertrat--
As a result, the city has set up a 24-hour hot line for victims of gay-related hate crimes, and a network of 30 gay agents within the city's police force to focus on hate crimes. Another idea is getting discussed at the moment - a new law similar to those banning convicted hooligans from soccer stadiums. If passed, the law would allow judges to bar gay bashers from approaching areas surrounding gay bars and pickup spots.
The above quote from TDS has made me a little sad...I wish the US had an attitude as pro-active and progressive toward hate crimes as that in the Netherlands. It's very, very clear what the US position is toward these crimes, and that's that they DON'T CARE about gay people, otherwise they would take the steps necessary to safeguard them. They don't value gay people, or our contribution to the world. Instead, they value "family values"--don't gays have families?--code for "anti-gay". It's just so tragic.
(As proof that we DO have families, and we ARE good parents, take a gander at the film, "We Are Dad" http://imdb.com/title/tt0447538/
about a couple who are pediatric nurses who adopt several special-needs kids, of all races, including an HIV-positive child who required enormous special attention. The love and attention these men gave these children qualifies them for multiple Nobel Peace prizes. Seeing this film should put to rest the notion that gays are "unqualified" to adopt or raise foster children.)
yes, it is very sad indeed. :-\ well, i guess the only thing we can do today is wait...give it a little time. the netherlands are a great place to live (i have lived there for a little more than a year and i loved it. people are very open mindend and have a laid-back attitude about things that are "different"). but they haven't been "born" that way, it was a long development. let's hope the same will happen in the US over the years....i won't give up hope. :)
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Did any of you notice that on the call sheet Ennis is played by Keith Fletcher and Jack by Teddy Carrol? Who are these guys?
They can't be stand-ins because of the character numbers, Ennis being 1 (fist role) Jack 2(second role) and Alma 3 (third role).
Michèle Williams is rightly identified as Alma.
Weird huh?
Edited for typo
John john, I don't know the real explanation, but after pondering this for a while I realized Keith Fletcher rhymes with Heath Ledger.
Teddy Daniel I have no theory for, however! a code I can't crack
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John john, I don't know the real explanation, but after pondering this for a while I realized Keith Fletcher rhymes with Heath Ledger.
Teddy Daniel I have no theory for, however! a code I can't crack
Yes but why?
I've seen plenty of call sheets in my life and never have I seen this. A call sheet is made to make sure everybody on the production is on the same 'page' for that day's work. I can't see why the two first roles' names should be 'hidden' to a crew they work with everyday.
Imagine Heath's dresser when he sees this guy Keith on the call sheet instead of Heath. I'm sure he'd have a heart attack! The clothes won't fit!!!
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Perhaps no scene was shot which directly involved those actors other than Williams? Another person would be there to have someone there with whom the actor involved can interact. I remember hearing that, in a crucial scene, one of the main actors (I forget which) who did not have to show up for a scene, did show up that day to that the other lead would have him to act to.
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I remember hearing that, in a crucial scene, one of the main actors (I forget which) who did not have to show up for a scene, did show up that day to that the other lead would have him to act to.
I think that was that touching scene at the Twist house when Ennis and Mrs. Twist were talking with each other. Imagine trying to do that acting job when the other person isn't there!
- Lydia
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Dersertrat--
I really, really hope you're right!
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Perhaps no scene was shot which directly involved those actors other than Williams? Another person would be there to have someone there with whom the actor involved can interact. I remember hearing that, in a crucial scene, one of the main actors (I forget which) who did not have to show up for a scene, did show up that day to that the other lead would have him to act to.
Those are stand-ins, or a spot on the wall (or a crew person) the actor has to play to to make sure the eye alignments are consistant.
On the call sheet, if these guys were stand-ins the numbers next to their names couldn't have been 1 and 2, the space would be left blank.
All speaking roles have number according to the character hierarchy. This helps for instance for wardrobe: actors 1,2,15 and 23 are to be dressed by 6am, and actors 5 12 8 and 18 by 9am etc it makes the call sheets shorter.
At the back of the call sheet, you find the list of all actors and their corresponding numbers.
The sheets are made by the first assistant director and is distributed to all the crew at the end of every day. That's when people go crazy, like WHAT? they need a snowstorm for tomorrow 7 am? ???
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Gosh, that picture made to show Jack standing in Ennis's kitchen really grabbed me, it was hard to look at (the what could have been feeling) while at the same time I couldn't stop staring at it. Seeing that - I still so miss them being together. Bittersweet was right.
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Ah!!! Rosewood!
I knew you had wings!! You draw as well as you write.
Loved your profile.
JJ
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Indiantelevision cited Mumbai Aamchich and The Da Vinci Code as other films that did not have a smooth ride with censors. Chief film censor Sharmila Tagore told Reuters that state censorship was "preferable to street censorship enforced by angry mobs or political groups."
Yes, there were violent mob attacks when an Indian film centred on a lesbian relationship was shown.in Indian cinemas. And unlike most films featuring a lesbian theme, it was not made to titillate male audiences.
Homosexuality is still illegal in India, thanks to the legacy of the British Raj. Maybe BBM is so unthinkable it doesn't even register on Indians' outrage meters, but a sensitive non-Bollywood portrayal of the oppression of women is likely to hit a lot of reactionary hot buttons.
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What a pleasure to see Yvette's profile on the Daily Sheet! She is a lovely, lovely ,intelligent, insightfull & downright brilliant person. Yvette is a true wordsmith. One either has' it' or doesn't .... Yvette has it. Check almost any post she has ever written and that natural elegance shines through.
Have we ever met? Unfortunately... no, not yet. But someday I hope to have that honour.
Yvette has brains and heart in equal measure, even those who disagree with her look forward to her replies. How many of us can say that?
To hear about her RL was a wonderful treat, for all of us.
Keep up the good work, TDS!!
The quote of the day --Napoleon, of all people!--was a riot Marge, where in God's name did you find it????
__________________________________________________________________________
Re the 'delete button':
If this has been posted somewhere, well, like many others I don't have the time to hunt. How much time can elapse before we can no longer modify a post? I never use spellcheck lololol and never will, sometimes I see things the next day and fix them.I frequently write and modify after posting because it doesn't read well.
Also, what is the exact time period we now have in which posts can be completely deleted? Not simply modified, but totally deleted. I know the policy has been implemented--both Lydia and Ellen told me about it. We spoke after I unsuccessfully tried to delete my forum posts, only to find that I couldn't. However, I never asked either lady how much time we now have to delete a CURRENT post.
So what is it? A day? A week? I would hope it's a week: not everybody comes here on a daily basis.
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At the risk of being wrong, (every day when I get out of bed) -- I believe it is currently set to 1 week.
But not set in stone.
Members who have concerns about future policy might post in the "forum upgrade thread" -- I'll find the link.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=23839.75
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Thanks for the kind words, jj and member.
I hope my homage to Jack (the hat and feather)
wasn't TOO obvious. ;)
In reality (you know, that place we are all forced to dwell in
on a day-to-day basis, like it or not...) I NEVER wear hats.
Well, metaphorically, I do.
The butterfly wings aren't real either. ;D
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Shouldn't today's Daily Sheet be for Monday, August 13th?
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^^^^^
Date corrected. Thanks.
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Reading the candidates' responses re marriage/civil union brought this question to mind... do the statutes already written on civil unions state SPECIFICALLY that the two (or more?) parties be of the same sex? That is, could an unmarried man and woman apply to be recognized legally as a couple under those statutes? (It is my understanding that most states no longer deal with common law 'marriages.')
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Hi doodler --
I have been waiting for someone with more specific knowledge of this to reply, but so far nobody -- anyway I feel safe to say that this question has been very much visited, and therefore many religions-- and states-- have taken care to define marriage as "between a man and a woman."
But I think they have been backed into a corner requiring them to include that language.
There is variation between courts in different states here in the U.S. Supposedly, the federal government under George Bush would prefer not to intervene in state's rights, but there was a lot of talk about a constitutional amendment on this exact subject. It hasn't happened, and is unlikely at this point.
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That's not what I'm asking. I understand that most religious groups and therefore many states want to define 'marriage ' as the union of a man and woman. My question is about the wording of 'civil union ' and/or 'domestic partners ' laws which many people are touting instead of actual marriage. IF those two are are not specifically defined as the property, environment, right, only resort for same sex couples, what's to keep any ol' straight couple from opting for that? Marriage is way down in the US and I think more than 50% end in divorce... hence the joke that in a few years the only folks that will be married are gays and lesbians (and not to each other!)
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Those states and countries who use the term "civil union" or words to that effect are distinguishing it from marriage because it instills different and fewer rights to the parties involved. Yes, it is only for couples of the same sex. No heterosexual couple would consider a civil union; why would anyone want to opt for a partnership that excludes the rights that come with a marriage? Even when hetero couples never marry, in court they may be considered married when their long-term relationship contains all the characteristics of marriage except the certificate. The unfairness of it all just begs justice.
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I know the purpose of civil union legislation. I am not asking about that. Are you sure, as in positive and can refer me to an actual statute, that the wording specifically excludes opposite sex couples. And no, unmarried heterosexual partners are NOT automatically given the same benefits of legally married ones. I can easily see some straight couples opting for a less confining legal union than marriage depending on what benefits a civil union would confer. For instance, if it would give partners health benefits but not require an equitable division of property upon separation.
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In regard to Doodler's question on Civil Unions. A new category of union law called "Domestic Partnerships" is coming into increasing useage. These arrangements include BOTH same sex and opposite sex couples in defining benefits and responsibilities. In California, this was seen as a rallying point to get opposite sex couples to support these arrangements as they could avail themselves of them without some of the more onerous provisions of traditional marriage (like property distribution). In today's society, there is little if any stigma regarding a couple "living together", so it works out well for straight couples as well if that is what they want. You might want to visit this web site for further information:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922609.html
richchan
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At last! Thank you for the information.
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and to the best of my knowledge, limited but well read, no civil union or domestic partner arrangement has EXCLUSIONARY sex provisions, and, several of the newer ones make a point of including non-spousal unions, like interdependent seniors or siblings with property or health care concerns.
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Wayne (Mountain Boy) startled every coyote up in The Big Horns last year. He and Shakestheground commenced to dancin' round the campfire. Or maybe they got lost lookin' for the outhouse!
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:D :-[ Hey O'dog! Yeah, that was a fun time wasn't it. Hope we can do it again sometime ... :)
Thanks Ellen, Dawn, et al for the profile! :)
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Wayne (Mountain Boy) startled every coyote up in The Big Horns last year. He and Shakestheground commenced to dancin' round the campfire. Or maybe they got lost lookin' for the outhouse!
You sure they weren't just travelin' 'round the coffeepot, lookin' for the handle? ;D
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I loved that line in the movie!
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You sure they weren't just travelin' 'round the coffeepot, lookin' for the handle? ;D
;) :D
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Vote in Poll: Do you support gay marriage?
An on-line article titled Democratic Hopefuls Tackle Gay Rights by Michael R. Blood, AP, summarizes the statements made by Democratic candidates last week, and includes an interactive poll. At this writing, 55% of participants have voted “No.”
I never trust most on-line polls as they are either weighted with opinions of a specific group or always weighted with those that use computers the most, which are young males. Even so, it's at 55%! Ah, progress. lol?
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In regard to Doodler's question on Civil Unions. A new category of union law called "Domestic Partnerships" is coming into increasing useage. These arrangements include BOTH same sex and opposite sex couples in defining benefits and responsibilities. In California, this was seen as a rallying point to get opposite sex couples to support these arrangements as they could avail themselves of them without some of the more onerous provisions of traditional marriage (like property distribution). In today's society, there is little if any stigma regarding a couple "living together", so it works out well for straight couples as well if that is what they want. You might want to visit this web site for further information:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922609.html
richchan
Thanks for this, I head not heard about it. Over here in the UK people are now talking about gay couples as being married even though strictly speaking they are not. And maybe I am being silly here, but in my mind the main reason why a young cohabiting couple get married is to protect their children. Until they have children they may be quite happy to be domestic partners.
The more I see of the difference it seems to actually make to same sex couples to be able to describe themselves as married (boring, respectable, but nonetheless desirable) the more I think this is an important issue.
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Good for Jordan and her family! However, I did laugh when I read this...
Standing Up To Bullying.... By Teachers
...but after the treatment their daughter had received, the family moved to a new school district and Jordan now attends Normal Community West High School.
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I wrote to Mike and Marsha re their ratings of BBM and Crash and posted the response I received from Mike in the Awards Aftermath thread. A few emails from other people might get his attention.
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And maybe I am being silly here, but in my mind the main reason why a young cohabiting couple get married is to protect their children. Until they have children they may be quite happy to be domestic partners. The more I see of the difference it seems to actually make to same sex couples to be able to describe themselves as married (boring, respectable, but nonetheless desirable) the more I think this is an important issue.
That isn't the only reason.
Two years ago in the US, a young adult woman in Florida had been in a vegetative state for over a year; she could open her eyes but didn't really respond to anything and was dependent on a feeding tube; tests had indicated that her brain was starting to deteriorate. The husband decided to stop the life-support and her family created a national media circus in trying to prevent that. They tried to morph the whole thing into an effort to "murder" someone because they were "disabled" and before it was all over every knuckle-dragger in American political life, including The White House Occupant, weighed in on it and Jesse Jackson journeyed to Florida for a flurry of photo-ops. But in the end, the husband's wishes were carried out. If they'd been living together and not married, the family could have kept him from even visiting her.
My nephew and his long-term girlfriend, both in their 30s, had been living together for over 10 years and since they didn't plan to have children no one in the family thought they would ever get married if they hadn't by now. But at about that same time, he got a severe case of the flu and landed in the hospital. No problem with her seeing him as much as she wanted but it occurred to both of them how vulnerable they were as an unmarried couple. They got married just four months later.
As far as marriage being 'boring, respectable, but nonetheless desirable' goes, it does mean considerably more than that to some of us, straights and gays both.
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Re: The Crime Writer
A number of years ago... several dozen, I think... I started reading Joseph Hansen's novel's about gay insurance investigator/private detective Dave Brandstetter. Sadly, there won't be any new ones because Mr. Hansen passed on in the Fall of 2004. But for people who like fiction, I recommend his stories.
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Re: The Crime Writer
A number of years ago... several dozen, I think... I started reading Joseph Hansen's novel's about gay insurance investigator/private detective Dave Brandstetter. Sadly, there won't be any new ones because Mr. Hansen passed on in the Fall of 2004. But for people who like fiction, I recommend his stories.
I do remember this series, doodler.
But only vaguely. I believe I read several of them years ago.
Hard to find, but not impossible. Worth looking for.
Here are a couple of other series for those that might be interested:
The Jack Caleb and John Thinnes books by Michael Allen Dymmoch.
Caleb is a gay psychiatrist and Thinnes is a straight homicide cop.
Over the course of the series, the two become friends though
never lovers. The hesitant establishing of the friendship is what
makes these books stand out in my mind. The cop is portrayed
as being very wary and unused to being around gay people, so
the friendship has that hurdle to overcome. Good books.
The series opens with THE MAN WHO UNDERSTOOD CATS
(The books have NOTHING to do with cats, but for whatever reason
the word is used in various of the series' titles. Go figure.)
I've liked this series very much and recommend it highly.
Primarily because they focus on the simple idea of friendship between
two very different men. Nothing is over dramatized and the stories
don't try and hide the fact that Caleb is gay and has relationships
with men and that he is not, in any way shape or form, embarassed
or ashamed or otherwise encumbered by his 'gayness'.
I've also read and enjoyed the late George Baxt's mysteries with gay
protagonist Pharaoh Love. These are a lot of fun.
If you can find them.
And let's not forget Jonathan Kellerman's thrillers with straight child
psychiatrist/police consultant Alex Delaware as the hero whose best friend is a gay L.A.
police detective.
Though Milo (the detective) doesn't play a HUGE role in the series, he is there in almost
all the books in a realistic capacity. He is also involved, as the books go along, in a long
term relationship with a medical doctor so he has a stability that a lot of gay characters
in books, for whatever reason, lack. Milo is described as a big gruff bear of a man
who is given a rough time by fellow cops and the department he works
for, although for various reasons, he can't be fired. He takes all this is stride mostly
because of his stable home life, I think. In actuality, I like him much better than I
do Alex and in later books, I kind of wish Kellerman would focus more on Milo.
Maybe one of these days he will.
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An opinion from columnist James Kurchick in USA Today:
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/08/a-magazines-out.html#more
Not specifically BBM-related; but it talks about the easing of pressure for those who "out" themselves by reading The Advocate magazine.
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Don't know if anyone else has encountered this, but when I try and load TDS--the one with Marc--I get a message about an invalid URL. Maybe it's just my computer, or operator error. If it's just me.....never mind!
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Thanks to neatfreak for posting that story about The Advocate's "Privacy Wrappers". Sometimes change is long overdue, but eventually it happens.
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Don't know if anyone else has encountered this, but when I try and load TDS--the one with Marc--I get a message about an invalid URL. Maybe it's just my computer, or operator error. If it's just me.....never mind!
You are right. There is an error, although it worked okay a few days ago.
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Hey, you all, try this URL for the edition with Marc's profile.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=26117.msg981677#msg981677
I'm not sure why the link quit working! :-\
- KittyHawk
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Don't know if anyone else has encountered this, but when I try and load TDS--the one with Marc--I get a message about an invalid URL. Maybe it's just my computer, or operator error. If it's just me.....never mind!
Actually, I get that message a lot. In fact almost every time I try to log into the forum I get it. Then I try again and the forum comes up. Sometimes I get that message after posting, or sending a PM, then I have to check and see if the post went through. About half the time it will post, and the other half I have to write it over. >:(
Maybe, in this case, the link really stopped working -- or maybe it was just the weird glitch. I have been reluctant to bring this up to the tech team but I bet if others are getting this message, especially new people, it might be slowing down forum participation. Not everyone is willing to try multiple times like I am. But, in case any of you are like me -- I suggest that if you get that message, just try again.
Also, you can always get to the Daily Sheet by looking for the thread under "Forum News and Events."
I hope that helps.
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Don't know if anyone else has encountered this, but when I try and load TDS--the one with Marc--I get a message about an invalid URL. Maybe it's just my computer, or operator error. If it's just me.....never mind!
Actually, I get that message a lot. In fact almost every time I try to log into the forum I get it. Then I try again and the forum comes up. Sometimes I get that message after posting, or sending a PM, then I have to check and see if the post went through. About half the time it will post, and the other half I have to write it over. >:(
I also get that message intermittently. More at night than during the day for me.
(And is spellcheck inoperable now?)
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I was very interested to see the Daily Sheet item about the book Life of Unlearning, brought to our attention by brianr on the Masculine and Gay thread, with some of his observations. Very interesting observations they were, too, I appreciated hearing about them.
After seeing BBM, one of my main interests was to see whether it was found to be authentic by gay men. Of course once I found this forum, I haven't looked back. But this article once again shows the "life" behind the work of fiction, and furthers the necessary work of having all the difficult conversations we need to have.
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Hey, you all, try this URL for the edition with Marc's profile.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=26117.msg981677#msg981677
I'm not sure why the link quit working! :-\
I'm not sure when it stopped working, but when I tried it Monday morning, it didn't work and when I checked "properties", I discovered that the only thing there was "http://" I know it worked Friday, but somehow it was erased over the weekend. ???
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It is probably wrong to say that I "enjoyed" the little bit in the Daily Sheet about Miss South Carolina (as one should rather weep over that).
If it's any consolation, German "Miss"es are not necessarily any better, as shown by this video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9JKOz4zq2F4). It's in German language (duh!) and shows several candidates for "Miss East Germany" who had been asked to pencil in East Germany on a map of Germany. One even hung up the map the wrong way round. Basically they had no clue, neither on the directions of East, West, North and South, and one of the girls even located Poland in the middle of Germany.
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Fabulous profile on Betty (neatfreak.) Thanks for another wonderful issue.
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I loved Betty's profile, too! So glad I got a chance to meet her at Estes Park--wish we'd had more time to talk.
(One of these days I'll get around to answering the questions Dawn sent me. The PM is still in my In box. ... :-[ )
I will, however, disagree with one part of Betty's public service announcement. ;D Although I've never been an English teacher, I have spent most of my working life as a researcher, writer, editor, and proofreader, and I'll go along with the 15th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style, which finds it perfectly acceptable to make an abbreviation plural without an apostrophe: the three Rs, IRAs, ABCs, CDs, DVDs, ATMs, VCRs, URLs, MP3s, pdfs.
Pick your preferred style, but then, please, be consistent in your usage. :)
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Betty, what a wonderful profile! Yes, it was great to meet you in Estes Park, and I hope we'll see each other again soon.
On the question of apostrophes, I stopped using them for things like "CDs" some years ago. That is also the style used at my department, and it was the style we used in preparing the text of Beyond Brokeback.
Hey guys, I think this is my 30th post. So you can stop nagging now, KittyHawk! ;D
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:D I have to agree with Jeff and Jonathan that abbreviations look fine without apostrophes. Most kids are taught in public school to use them so that the "s" is separated from the symbol or abbreviation. It is this usage, I think, that causes the confusion of using apostrophes to make whole words plural. It is the most common mistake by far. (Let's leave its/it's for another day.)
Frankly, I find the British punctuation rules overall more consistent; they just make more sense. Doesn't help me here, though.
Thanks for the kudos, all of you. *blush* ::)
So Jeff, when are we going to see your profile?
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Wonderful edition, Marcia and all the TDS Team. Thank you all for the hard work that goes into each issue. 'Those In High(point) Places' was wonderfully written, yet still a painful reminder that bashing isn't confined to the living. :'(
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And maybe I am being silly here, but in my mind the main reason why a young cohabiting couple get married is to protect their children. Until they have children they may be quite happy to be domestic partners. The more I see of the difference it seems to actually make to same sex couples to be able to describe themselves as married (boring, respectable, but nonetheless desirable) the more I think this is an important issue.
That isn't the only reason.
Two years ago in the US, a young adult woman in Florida had been in a vegetative state for over a year; she could open her eyes but didn't really respond to anything and was dependent on a feeding tube; tests had indicated that her brain was starting to deteriorate. The husband decided to stop the life-support and her family created a national media circus in trying to prevent that. They tried to morph the whole thing into an effort to "murder" someone because they were "disabled" and before it was all over every knuckle-dragger in American political life, including The White House Occupant, weighed in on it and Jesse Jackson journeyed to Florida for a flurry of photo-ops. But in the end, the husband's wishes were carried out. If they'd been living together and not married, the family could have kept him from even visiting her.
My nephew and his long-term girlfriend, both in their 30s, had been living together for over 10 years and since they didn't plan to have children no one in the family thought they would ever get married if they hadn't by now. But at about that same time, he got a severe case of the flu and landed in the hospital. No problem with her seeing him as much as she wanted but it occurred to both of them how vulnerable they were as an unmarried couple. They got married just four months later.
As far as marriage being 'boring, respectable, but nonetheless desirable' goes, it does mean considerably more than that to some of us, straights and gays both.
Sorry Marcia, I'm thinking that I didn't take in what was implied by domestic partnerships. I think I missed the point here (married nearly 37 years to the same man, too :))
And many thanks for the excellent TDS today.
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Betty, loved your profile!
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Betty, ditto Chuckie and the others on a great profile! I fondly remember our chats in Estes Park.
I have never used apostrophes after CDs, DVDs etc. Perhaps that's because one of my English bibles in school was H.W Fowler's A Dictionary of Modern English Usage. Since it is still close at hand, I find a section on "The non-possessive 's. It says "[To avoid confusion] we may reasonably write dot your i's and cross your t's but there is no need to put an apostrophe in......such plurals as MPs, ADCs, NCOs, the 1990s etc." Makes sense to me!
John
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Wow! I had no idea that apostrophes engendered such passion in others! And I thought I was alone; an island no more. ;D
Seems that one's stylebook and preference guide the day when it comes to pluralizing symbols and abbreviations. And shouldn't they? English is a fluid language, constantly changing as we find easier, faster ways to communicate. Dropping unnecessary apostrophes is certainly in keeping with the efficiency we prize.* Unfortunately, using them on whole words actually changes the meaning of the word.
I too use plural apostrophes only where not using them makes it confusing. But Warriner's Grammar and Composition insisted on that apostrophe when I taught so long ago. And therein begins the confusion which makes people put apostrophes on million-dollar billboards ("three location's!"), expensive commercial signage at every location ("Discount Vacuum's") and everywhere in print that doesn't employ proofreaders—and some places where they do. *groan*
Apostrophe apostolates unite! I love you guys.
*In the interest of said efficiency, I have coined the word "edress" to shorten the awkward term "email address." Says it all with only two syllables. Use it often! See if it shows up in the lexicon in future years.
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Just make sure your eslip isn't showing.
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"Edress." I like that! :)
As far back as my college days (when we still wrote with sticks on wet clay tablets), I concluded that within reason, it often didn't matter so much what style you chose for things like apostrophes, as long as you were consistent.
I had one professor who would fail papers if they weren't done according to Kate Turabian (remember her?) to the letter. I had another professor who insisted we follow the Modern Language Association's style book. So what was up with that? Was one better than the other? No. So pick one and then be consistent.
And if you think apostrophes rile people, let's not start on commas. ... :D
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I like to use apostr. to show possession, although I would never use it in the word possessions unless it ITSELF denoted possessions. And to denote plural in certain cases.
Jack's Hat
Ennis' Saddle
That pompous drama queen So-And-So's nasty PM's
Hannibal Lector's Liver and Fava Bean Salads
The 'dangling apostrophe' as in ENNIS' Saddle confuses me, so I tend to look at what writers such as The Great Goddess or Gibbon have done, although the latter is well over 200 years out of date...
At any rate "Ennis's Saddle" is bad written English. It's fine as spoken English, but to write that??? No way!
The entire business has been a lifelong confusion. I was taught UK usage by an Irish nun--s for z, use the classical dipthongs [aerchaeology]-- ou for o. [Honour instead of honor].
People think I misspell. Charlotte figured out the why of it when she saw UK usage throughout a letter, albeit mixed with US usage to add to the confusion. Marian figured it out instantly. Others tell me to use spellcheck, but that's a program which is simply annoying. And if they dislike what i write, to hell with 'em [lol]
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The 'dangling apostrophe' as in ENNIS' Saddle confuses me, so I tend to look at what writers such as The Great Goddess or Gibbon have done, although the latter is well over 200 years out of date...
But just try saying Ennis's Saddle three times, very fast. It sounds like steam escaping! ;D
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Speaking of spelling, although Heath is frightfully healthy for us, his name is Heath not Health as per the article headline.
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I like to use apostr. to show possession, although I would never use it in the word possessions unless it ITSELF denoted possessions. And to denote plural in certain cases.
The 'dangling apostrophe' as in ENNIS' Saddle confuses me, so I tend to look at what writers have done...
At any rate "Ennis's Saddle" is bad written English. It's fine as spoken English, but to write that??? No way!
Ennis's -- That's the way Annie Proulx does it all through the short story. She also doesn't put apostrophes after any "ing" word she leaves the "g" off. So it's bringin instead of bringin'.
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oh yeah Lyle -- well she is writin in colloquial speech, that is sumthin all teachers advise against for us non-geniuses. Only Annie, and possibly Mark Twain have dun it and gotten awaaaay with it.***
But then, it is also true that many readers find Huck Finn and Brokeback Mountain hard to read.
*** ha ha and maybe James Joyce sometimes, but no one is completely sure.
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I like to use apostr. to show possession, although I would never use it in the word possessions unless it ITSELF denoted possessions. And to denote plural in certain cases.
The 'dangling apostrophe' as in ENNIS' Saddle confuses me, so I tend to look at what writers have done...
At any rate "Ennis's Saddle" is bad written English. It's fine as spoken English, but to write that??? No way!
Ennis's -- That's the way Annie Proulx does it all through the short story. She also doesn't put apostrophes after any "ing" word she leaves the "g" off. So it's bringin instead of bringin'.
That was also the "house style" for the highly regarded center for study in Early American history, where I worked while I was in graduate school. It resulted in what I felt were infelicitous constructions, such as "Jonathan Edwards's Moral Philosophy," instead of "The Moral Philosophy of Jonathan Edwards" (phrasing used in a book title), but that was the style--words that ended in "s" were made possessive by adding "'s."
I got used to it, so Annie's "Ennis's saddle" seems normal to me, but her lack of an apostrophe in "ing" words where she leaves off the "g" does annoy me--in that case because my understanding is that in something like "bringin'," even if it is reproducing colloquial speech, the apostrophe is replacing--or holding the place of--the missing "g"--as, for example, the apostrophe in "don't," which is replacing the missing "o" of "do not."
I wonder whether the editors at The New Yorker tried to get her to put in that apostrophe? ;D
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^^^^^
They must have recognized artistic license when they saw it!
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I'm French and those shortcuts were very difficult to learn and get used to. There's nothing comparable in French. We're stuck with all the long words :D
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Gotta say that "la selle d'Ennis" sounds almost as weird as Ennis's saddle. :D
And I bet Betty has read "Eats, Shoots and Leaves".
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Thank you for another wonderful TDS. I was stopped short by the article on National Coming Out Day...
I did not participate in the 1987 Gay and Lesbian March on Washington, but I was there at the quilt...*sigh*...a sight which I shall never forget, as long as I live. :'(
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And I bet Betty has read "Eats, Shoots and Leaves".
Of course I did! Just for Spellcheck: Of core sighed id.
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I like to use apostr. to show possession, although I would never use it in the word possessions unless it ITSELF denoted possessions. And to denote plural in certain cases.
The 'dangling apostrophe' as in ENNIS' Saddle confuses me, so I tend to look at what writers have done...
At any rate "Ennis's Saddle" is bad written English. It's fine as spoken English, but to write that??? No way!
Ennis's -- That's the way Annie Proulx does it all through the short story. She also doesn't put apostrophes after any "ing" word she leaves the "g" off. So it's bringin instead of bringin'.
dialect!!!
the very idea makes me cringe, there is no way I can write dialect lyle lololoo. Oh, look at Shipping News; her use of punctuation etc in there is extraordinary.
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oh yeah Lyle -- well she is writin in colloquial speech, that is sumthin all teachers advise against for us non-geniuses. Only Annie, and possibly Mark Twain have dun it and gotten awaaaay with it.***
But then, it is also true that many readers find Huck Finn and Brokeback Mountain hard to read.
*** ha ha and maybe James Joyce sometimes, but no one is completely sure.
'Dialect' writing is always open to debate. For some readers, myself included, text renderings of colloquial speech, which IMO is what AP did in Brokeback, are easy enough to read but outright text renderings of dialect are irritating enough to abandon a story after the first page. Awhile back I listened to an audiotape of Stephen King's Dolores Claiborne, which was written in a Maine dialect. Easy to understand when you were listening to it but I couldn't get to base one reading the book.
"Ennis's " puts me in mind of an old movie called Monkey Business, where Jimmy Stewart (I think!), under the influence of a mythical youth-inducing drug, answers an office phone with "hello, Snake Department! sssssssssssssssssssssssss!" And when you think of it, Ennis's saddle isn't how most English speakers would say it. In speech, you'd run the two esses together -- i.e., Ennis' saddle would come out as Ennissaddle.
(edited to remove grammatical error)
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Folks, below is a link to an article stating that Heath Ledger and Michele Williams have called it quits. Don't know if it's true or not, but the folks at Planet Heath at least will want to know.
http://trent.blogspot.com/2007/09/here-and-now.html
Jeremiah
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marcia would that be ennisszssaddle???
lol
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marcia would that be ennisszssaddle???
Only if you're doing a Doctor Freud impression. ::)
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a snippet from the daily sheet and a question:
"Then, on a more personal level, came the rebirth of my creative writing -- after more than a decade of an unbreakable writer’s block -- with a fanfiction Brokeback sequel that’s still in progress."
....
~ Marcia (Marge Innavera)
what fic is this?
and thanks to moving-on-marcia for all the good work, now you'll have time to write, as well as to read slash and do all the other things of life, best wishes
kj
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Thanks Marcia for all your great work on TDS, and best wishes with your continued endeavors! :)
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Marcia, thanks for all your hard work here on TDS!
and great profile on JuliaCat!
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Marcia, THANKS for all your work on TDS! Good luck, whatever you do next.
Jeremiah
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Thanks, everybody!
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I'm delighted that we'll be getting more regular updates of The Gift of Exile. (Won't we?)
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Marcia, thank you for all your hard work on TDS. The consolation is that you are not leaving completely. Good luck with your writing.
I LOVED the article on Juliacat! Thank you very much. :-*
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Marcia, best wishes for you in your writing endeavors. Many thanks for all your hard work on TDS the past few months. I read it every Mon/Wed/Fri and enjoy it immensely.
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Can I just second everyone's good wishes for the future and in your writing career. Thank you for being such an excellent, kind, considerate, and hard working editor! :) :) :)
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I'm delighted that we'll be getting more regular updates of The Gift of Exile. (Won't we?)
Sure will -- I've learned enough about Duluth in the past few months that I'm starting to forget I've never lived there!
Thanks everybody for the kind words and encouragement. The leads and links forum members have provided have been essential to producing these issues, and Janjo has gone a lot of extra miles over the past months.
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Marcia
thank you from the bottom of my heart
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I'm delighted that we'll be getting more regular updates of The Gift of Exile. (Won't we?)
Sure will -- I've learned enough about Duluth in the past few months that I'm starting to forget I've never lived there!
Thanks everybody for the kind words and encouragement. The leads and links forum members have provided have been essential to producing these issues, and Janjo has gone a lot of extra miles over the past months.
Well, thank you for that. That is very kind of you!
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Hi. Roco posted some brilliant fanart by an un-named artist who I think deserves a credit. The artist is Nass and is one of the very best I've come across so it would be nice to link the drawing to the name. The watercolours are quite remarkable also.
Janie
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Marcia:
My very belated, but no less enthusiastic, good wishes for your future endeavors.
And a a long overdue THANK YOU for all your hard work on TDS.
Please forgive me for playing the usual role of caboose. ;)
Yvette
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What a great daily sheet today--thanks to everyone.
DeTina
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Hi. Roco posted some brilliant fanart by an un-named artist who I think deserves a credit. The artist is Nass and is one of the very best I've come across so it would be nice to link the drawing to the name. The watercolours are quite remarkable also.
Janie
I added a credit - thanks.
And thanks, everybody, for all your kind words and support, not just in this thread but over the past nine months.
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Better late then never:
I have found Marcia to be a person with great talent, who also knows how to use her talent.
She has a keen journalistic eye for a good story, She is an editor who searches out good stories. She always manages, with sometimes slender resources, to put together a TDS you WANT to read.
Another TDS editor is one of my most cherished buds. I know how hard the job of TDS Editor can be, how time consuming, how much dedication is necessary to continually produce a first class news sheet.
All in all I know a lot about the joys and pitfalls of being a Daily Sheet Editor.
Tact and grace are needed, as well as iron-clad fairness.
Marcia is first rate at her job.
Thanks for doing it for us!
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As mentioned by Ellen a few days ago, Rodney is being treated here in Colorado.
Ellen's notice concerning the situation in TDS was a lovely gesture from a lovely and thoughtfull person. Every phone call, every PM sent by his friends here on the Forum has helped to lift his spirits. He appreciates the love and support more then words can say.
Rodney does have computer access, but it is not regular. So this is a big Thank You With Love posted to all of you tonight on Rodney's behalf. When he can, he will thank you personally.
He has now had 5 of the 15 scheduled treatments. Cautiously, it might be said they may actually be working: the terrible headaches which first indicated his problem have apparently lessened.
On my own, I want to say it is not easy for him. This situation--having a very serious illness while far from home, and being unable to return to that home because of that illness--would be difficult for anyone. Yet he is holding up under pressure with grace, with the continuous, unfailing courtesy of a born gentleman.
Through it all, he has been accepting.
He voices NO complaints. Ever.
He remains one of the wittiest, most charming companions possible.
All of us...Monica and Dave, Adam, John, Laura, Lee, Katrina...every one of us consider his presence here to be a great privelege, and a great inspiration.
His behaviour humbles us. To put it as simply as you can, Rodney is a gentleman.
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and holy crap, the 911 TDS is OUTSTANDING.
You've outdone yourselves!!!!!
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Jack, thank you for the information on Rodney. I just talked to him on the phone, and read to him what you posted. He is, indeed, a gentleman. I, like many folks here, love him very much. He is so grateful for all the Denver/Boulder Brokies who are his family there. I am grateful to all of you, as well. :-* :-* :-*
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Really appreciate the link to the Dialect Survey, thank you! I checked my home state of Louisiana, and find myself pronouncing things the majority or near-majority way.
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A terrific Fri issue, folks, especially the Profile of Katiebrie, and Brokeback's dialect coach. I wonder if that Russian film will make it over here. Might be interesting.
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Such an entertaining DS today, thanks all...
I read the link to the "pink shirt" story and they, in turn, have another link
titled:
Pink shirts legend grows
Valley students’ anti-bullying success reaches CBS, Spanish newspaper
About all the attention they've been getting, in "that" article one of the boys remarks, as Ennis might have:
"I’ve talked more in the past couple of days than I have in my whole life," Travis said.
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Re: What the Hell is Going On with OJ? I have another question...
What the hell is going on with China?
While the ongoing OJ saga is entertaining and mind boggling (Mike Vick should take a good look!) his antics aren't a danger to us on a grand scale. However the problems this country is having with all kinds of Chinese imports (sans human, of course) affects most of us personally.
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Ellen, love your avatar; you look adorable!
Nikki
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thx, ma'am! it was fun dressin' up!
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Nikki, loved reading your profile!
So -- are you saying the forum is also like heaven, minues the snacks?
*****************
I also loved the quotes from the actors about their roles. Some of them I've seen before, but some were new to me. Great illumination on the movie.
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Nikki, loved reading your profile!
So -- are you saying the forum is also like heaven, minues the snacks?
...well, I guess the Forum could serve virtual snacks ! LOL
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We serve virtual snacks all the time in the Diner.
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An' virtual hugs and virtual kisses... between the real ones at our get-togethers!
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We serve virtual snacks all the time in the Diner.
..maybe I should drop in! LOL
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Thanks for the little article about my new camera... I've been asked what kind of camera Nicky gave me as a present...
It's a Canon PowerShot A570 IS. I took about 500 pics in San Francisco, posted in the Reunion thread. I was there just 2 1/2 days, from Sunday pm to Tuesday pm. Definitely NOT long enough!
I'm missing each and every one of you I bumped into while there!
Let's do it again something soon, K?
Hugs,
Rob
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Let's do it again something soon, K?
Hugs,
Rob
UK08! YOU'll be there, right Rob? ;D
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Thanks so much for the story of Boris (Jari's) history-making post! It was so much silly fun to be part of it. And thanks to BCJohn for capturing the moment! ;D ;D ;D
As Tellyouwhat (Ellen) put it so well, NONE of us expected this Forum to be here, for US to be here now, and I am so grateful that it is!!!!!!!!!
(HOW MANY posts do I have? Sheesh!) 8)
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Let's do it again something soon, K?
Hugs,
Rob
UK08! YOU'll be there, right Rob? ;D
Of course!
You too, Monica?
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Rob, thanks for the info on your camera. I was curious myself but wasn't going to ask as I figure the photogapher is more important than the camera! Thanks for sharing all those great shots - looks like you guys had a wonderful time.
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More than welcome, Des...
San Francisco was fantastic... too cool... too short.
Never enough time, never enough. ;)
Longer next time, though!
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This was posted by the NY Daily News:
"Brokeback Mountain" writer Annie Proulx has given the go-ahead to an opera based on her story about two gay cowboys, we hear. Fellow Pulitzer Prize winner Charles Wuorinen will compose. Producer Beckett Swede, whose Future Music has mounted Gordon Getty's operas, is also creating "Popra: Famous for 15 Minutes ... My Years With Andy Warhol," written by former Warhol superstar Ultra Violet.
Here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/r_m/2007/09/25/2007-09-25_charlie_sheen__denise_richards_its_war.html
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I loved reading the "BBM Primer" in Friday's (09/21) TDS. Thank you. What a great find.
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The website Boyscape.com reminds us: “It should also be remembered that it wasn't all that long ago that gay boys, men and their friends were unable to dance together in public. Accordingly, many of the roots of today's circuit events and related activities derived from the gay community's struggle for equality and civil rights.”
Good point.
With homophobes, even guys who aren't gay can't dance together.
In Melbourne in about 1992, I was a guest at the wedding reception of a young Vietnamese couple. The groom was one of my ex-students. He had rented a room in my house for over a decade. He asked me to go with him when he went back to Vietnam to find the girl he'd fallen in love with when he was preparing to escape from the country and I did go with him and support them. He married her and was able to bring her to Australia two years later.
At the wedding reception in Melbourne, I guess because I was single and not a Vietnamese speaker, I was seated at a table of my friend's co-workers who were non-Vietnamese telecom technicians and their wives and girlfriends. The groom's brothers, who are not gay, asked me to dance so I gladly danced a set with them. When I went back to the non-Vietnamese table, you could cut the atmosphere with a knife and I was snubbed for the rest of the evening by them. (I don't recall any of them having a dance with their wife/girlfriend, either.) Dreary lot!
(Among Vietnamese men and Chinese men from Vietnam, dancing is not necessarily a sexual or romantic activity, but social. My Vietnamese male students, most of whom were straight, would partner other males to teach them to cha-cha or tango, much to the astonishment of straight Australians who happened to see them. At socials and parties, there was always at least one straight Vietnamese male who would invite me to dance with him. I was quite often invited to have Christmas dinner and other celebrations with the extended family of a Sino-Vietnamese student, who would always come and say "Teach me to waltz" and we would waltz among all the assembled relatives and friends.)
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Tfferg,
Not to get off topic... but your write up reminds me of many occasions I've experienced. In 1995 I found myself knocking at the doors of a Korean Buddhist temple in Tacoma, Washington. Within several months I had joined the temple as first a lay person, then ultimately as a "novice monk". I traveled from temple and monastery with my teacher, an American monk who had been given the name Seu Gong. (My dharma name, Ban-ya.) He being senior tended to sit with the abbots (those in charge) at the other temples while I would frequently sit with the junior monks.
Most of our visiting was spent at Vietnamese and Khmer (Cambodian) monasteries. I fondly recall the genuine warmth these men showed us, the kindness of them. Reading your story reminded me especially of a young monk called Moun Hoot (my spelling). When introduced to him I bowed, then offered my right hand to shake his. Before I knew it he had me sitting on the floor next to him, he holding my hand through my entire visit, a good half hour.
There are many societies around this tiny world of ours not so "stuck" on stereotypes. Many not fearful of being openly affectionate with those of their own gender.
I hope one day that American men might be as open as these monks...
Rob
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That's really interesting, Rob, I was not aware that you'd had those experiences. Not to stay off-topic (!) but I was in India earlier this year, and was struck by the sight of young men in their teens walking down the street and holding hands, or even arm in arm. It was very sweet and natural, but while such an open expression of friendship or brotherly love is quite accepted in societies there, I was told that homosexuality most definitely is not.
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Could be how it is... I remember my friend, "Sati" (a novice monk who was staying at the Khmer temple) telling me that he asked Muon Hoot about the gay lifestyle in Cambodia.
Seems Muon Hoot had never heard of such a thing...
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Could be how it is... I remember my friend, "Sati" (a novice monk who was staying at the Khmer temple) telling me that he asked Muon Hoot about the gay lifestyle in Cambodia.
Seems Muon Hoot had never heard of such a thing...
^^^ I'm sure Tony (tfferg) will have information on this.
Des - did you see any hijra in India?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_%28South_Asia%29
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Could be how it is... I remember my friend, "Sati" (a novice monk who was staying at the Khmer temple) telling me that he asked Muon Hoot about the gay lifestyle in Cambodia.
Seems Muon Hoot had never heard of such a thing...
^^^ I'm sure Tony (tfferg) will have information on this.
Des - did you see any hijra in India?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_%28South_Asia%29
I don't have any firsthand knowledge of gay life in Cambodia, but there is a very interesting account here:
http://www.globalgayz.com/g-cambodia.html (http://www.globalgayz.com/g-cambodia.html)
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That's really interesting, Rob, I was not aware that you'd had those experiences. Not to stay off-topic (!) but I was in India earlier this year, and was struck by the sight of young men in their teens walking down the street and holding hands, or even arm in arm. It was very sweet and natural, but while such an open expression of friendship or brotherly love is quite accepted in societies there, I was told that homosexuality most definitely is not.
This is all very interesting for me too, it pretty much describes what I saw in Morocco (Marrakesh) just a few weeks ago - lots of good looking young men, treating each other much the way girls treat each other here, I'm sure it has nothing to do with being gay. I saw a quite separate incident in the hotel lobby where we were staying which might have been a gay pick-up, but the boys on the street, just something normal and natural for them, I was charmed.
I would have taken photos, but the guidebooks warn you that that won't be culturally acceptable.
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Thanks for the daily sheet today Stilllearning. One suggestion, you might want to change the subject line in the thread so that it show that it is now Oct 1st.
Thanks,.....hb
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Well I don't know how many other people have been putting texts into that gender genie but here are a few of my experiments :-
an exam question I set was called male
an email from a straight male colleague all about scientific matters was classified as female
en email the same man sent to another man, and the response, was correctly! classified as male
- but I gave up when I found a classic text, the last few pages of James Joyce's 'The Dead', a famous story from 'The Dubliners', came up as female.
OK, he's Irish, but he was a straight male. ;D
So, did anyone else find that it was able to pick up how (straight) men write for men but nothing else??
It seems I can write like that if I have to
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I got mixed results, too, Chris. Has anyone found what difference it makes whether you check fiction, nonfiction, or a blog entry?
- KH
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I got mixed results, too, Chris. Has anyone found what difference it makes whether you check fiction, nonfiction, or a blog entry?
- KH
Yes - wondered about that, I think an email is a blog for this purpose. However we could try a few tests. (Seemed a bit of a crude tool to me), please post any result you get!
OK, this is male whatever way you try it
http://www.poetry-online.org/yeats_a_prayer_for_my_daughter.htm
and so is this
http://www.shakespeare-online.com/sonnets/94.html
but, interesting, when I try Wilfred Owen's 'Strange meeting', by a very famous (in the UK) anti-war poet who is now known to have been gay, I get this :-
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu143%2Fchriswilson1_2007%2Fstrangemeeting.jpg&hash=7bdab421005788091b80b7e520e269fce7882133)
and
Words: 507
(NOTE: The genie works best on texts of more than 500 words.)
Female Score: 857
Male Score: 450
The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: female!
- interesting, I chose that because it was an antiwar poem.
and if you want to read the poem (recommended) - here you are
http://illyria.com/owenstr.html
- he lived just a mile away from here at one stage in his short life- he was killed just before he end of the war, in 1917.
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Female Score: 857
Male Score: 450
The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: female!
- interesting, I chose that because it was an antiwar poem.
and if you want to read the poem (recommended) - here you are
http://illyria.com/owenstr.html
- he lived just a mile away from here at one stage in his short life- he was killed just before he end of the war, in 1917.
Thanks for sharing the poem. It's meaningful regardless of the M-F thing. ;)
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Female Score: 857
Male Score: 450
The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: female!
- interesting, I chose that because it was an antiwar poem.
and if you want to read the poem (recommended) - here you are
http://illyria.com/owenstr.html
- he lived just a mile away from here at one stage in his short life- he was killed just before he end of the war, in 1917.
Thanks for sharing the poem. It's meaningful regardless of the M-F thing. ;)
Language! Language! :D ;)
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Thanks for sharing the poem. It's meaningful regardless of the M-F thing. ;)
- Wilfred Owen is on the school syllabuses here, may be little known in the US. That text is the culmination of Britten's War Requiem. I only recently realised that Britten know quite well what he was doing (as a well known gay composer) when he set that text (Strange Meeting) for two men, one English, one German to sing together. He would have known, back iin the fifties and sixties, that Owen was a gay man, most people hearing it would not have known. I didn't. It adds to the poignancy, though.
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Errrr.... is it me or has nothing been mentioned about the UK 2008 gathering in TDS- we need to canvas opinions.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=20185.0
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- interesting, I chose that because it was an antiwar poem.
and if you want to read the poem (recommended) - here you are
http://illyria.com/owenstr.html
- he lived just a mile away from here at one stage in his short life- he was killed just before he end of the war, in 1917.
Thanks for sharing the poem. It's meaningful regardless of the M-F thing. ;)
Language! Language! :D ;)
;D Hmmm. M/F? no. M:F? probably not. M|F. nope.
OK, maybe M or F will work.
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Errrr.... is it me or has nothing been mentioned about the UK 2008 gathering in TDS- we need to canvas opinions.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=20185.0
Neil, will you ask a member of your planning committee to send us what they'd like to be in TDS? I hesitate for us to jump into the planning thread on our own - we might pick out something that's not quite a final decision.
Thanks,
- Lydia
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Odd - I seem to be pretty consistently male.
My generation 'did' Wilfrid Owen at school - I hadn't realised his popularity was limited to the UK. He's known as a war poet, but didn't get the chance to be much else - he was killed in action before the war he wrote about ended.
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I used gender genie on part of a story I wrote.
1968 words in that section
Female score was 2058, male score was 2754.
I'm male, and the most used words are:
the 77x's
to 51
it 40
a 38
Male words. Who'd a thunk it? Since the section was a male's view....I can live with it
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I just used the Gender Genie on a post I did to the 'Masculinity' thread:
Words: 542
(NOTE: The genie works best on texts of more than 500 words.)
Female Score: 774
Male Score: 660
The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: female!
;D ;D ;D ;D
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Now I see why it is named "genie" --
I had an evil urge to apply it to all the posts in the masculinity thread. 8)
and no one can get this genie back in the bottle!
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Odd - I seem to be pretty consistently male.
My generation 'did' Wilfrid Owen at school - I hadn't realised his popularity was limited to the UK. He's known as a war poet, but didn't get the chance to be much else - he was killed in action before the war he wrote about ended.
We did some poems by some of the First World War poets when I was at school in Australia in the 1960s. I don't know if they're still in high school courses.
It was about the time of an Australian play, The One Day of the Year, and I think together they influenced a number of our generation who developed anti-war attitudes epecially when the Australian government supported the American War in Vietnam.
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Now I see why it is named "genie" --
I had an evil urge to apply it to all the posts in the masculinity thread. 8)
and no one can get this genie back in the bottle!
Yeah, following your brilliant thought I suggested it: they don't want to do it because someone said the Guardian's female writers all came out male.
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Errrr.... is it me or has nothing been mentioned about the UK 2008 gathering in TDS- we need to canvas opinions.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=20185.0
Neil, will you ask a member of your planning committee to send us what they'd like to be in TDS? I hesitate for us to jump into the planning thread on our own - we might pick out something that's not quite a final decision.
Thanks,
- Lydia
Did this today -- sorry for not thinking ahead sooner!
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No problem. We've got it now and i've voted! ;)
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Hey, I know Cantara, met her here last winter, we talked and she said to send her some stories. I might even do it, she liked one of the things i quoted [I'd just written it and it was fresh in my head]
Nice lady, VERY California. Surprised the hell out of me to read that article.
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Folks, here is a mention of Jake's next project, courtesy of Variety:
http://www.variety.com/VR1117973661.html
And he appears opposite Tobey Maguire...I'd love to see a love scene with those two!
Jeremiah
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And he appears opposite Tobey Maguire...I'd love to see a love scene with those two!
Not if the film's called Brothers! lol...
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And he appears opposite Tobey Maguire...I'd love to see a love scene with those two!
Not if the film's called Brothers! lol...
Boy, that would be kinky...and kind of hot, in a naughty way.
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Bravo on TDS for profiling Vic!
His posts are so insightful and full of knowledge, and he has a wicked sense of humor to boot! I'm a great admirer of his and you couldn't have picked a more fitting subject. Thanks!
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Hi, just wanted to pick up on a point Vic made in his (great) profile - the point about this forum having a heavy American slant: it's been one of many things about this forum that has been transforming for me: through this forum, I have seen some Americans "up close and personal", and this has forced me to deal with some of my preconceived notions - alright, prejudices - about Americans. Guess what, Americans are people, too! ::) And more important, it's been a place where some of our international differences have actually been put on the table and discussed, generally in a mutually respectful (if sometimes passionate) way. I've seen people change through this interaction, on both sides of the Atlantic, on both sides of the Equator. I don't think this will make our differences go away, but I believe it has the power to change the way we see our differences, and I really believe this in turn has the power to change the world.
On a related note, I'm very interested in that movie, For the Bible Tells Me So, that was also noted in TDS, but I'm not sure how it would speak to a non-American audience; I'm looking for any and all comments on it from folks who see it, but I'm particularly looking for opinions on how it might be viewed outside the States, say in Canada.....
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Quithammerin,
I'm thinking when you get to know an American or two in person, you'll see that we're no different than people anywhere else! Work, pay bills, mow the lawn, walk the dog, eat, go to bed, get up, go back to work and start it all over again...
Hugs,
Rob
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Quithammerin,
I'm thinking when you get to know an American or two in person, you'll see that we're no different than people anywhere else! Work, pay bills, mow the lawn, walk the dog, eat, go to bed, get up, go back to work and start it all over again...
Hugs,
Rob
Hi, Rob, thanks for letting me get to know you - virtually, that is. Your story and all the others have been life-changing for me. As far as my prejudices are concerned, the embarrassing thing about it is, I saw myself as someone who didn't pre-judge people, and I had to deal with the fact that I do. I learned never to underestimate my capacity to misjudge a person! I guess this whole experience started with Annie Proulx seeing a lone old cowboy in a bar in Wyoming, wondering what his story was, whether it might be something that no one might have thought, seeing him there...
And also I just have to say that this entire forum feels like one big hug, so, inhibited as I am, I'm giving one back...
QH
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You're not alone, QH, we all pre-judge to some degree!
:-*
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Would just like to add that, as an American who has been living in Europe for many years, this forum has been a very nice way for me to reconnect with my compatriots living all over the country. It's interesting to read some of the exchanges between Americans and (mainly) Europeans because I can get where each side is coming from. What people from smaller countries don't often understand is that many Americans seldom have contact with others living in a distant region. Before I moved to Europe, I was visiting London and met an American from Kansas sitting next to me on a subway car. I was from Massachusetts and we each admitted we'd never met anyone from the other's state and just kind of stared at each other like we were space aliens. ::)
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Great TDS today, congrats all :D
About those kissing coppers, you might like to know that this splendid Russian artwork was apparently based on the graffiti artist Banksy's kissing coppers
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu143%2Fchriswilson1_2007%2Fcoppersbrighton.jpg&hash=fe90daf56aced6ed8a57f9ed7844ed3d8fb4d182)
and that is in Brighton, Sussex, UK,
- apparently it is still there, now under perspex
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leonski/459054956/
and btw, agree with the preceding comments by chapeaugris, Rob, QH - I could say the same. It's great to be interacting with this big cross-section of people from all over the world and discovering our commonality.
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Link is fixed now, Monte, thanks :)
And thanks for the bonus pic!
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Bansky is wonderful! If only all graffitti artists were this talented our cities could become museums.
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Bansky is wonderful! If only all graffitti artists were this talented our cities could become museums.
JJ, I love Banksy!
The New Yorker (of course) did a fabulous profile on him a while back, but
damn if I can remember the title or issue. It was my first intro to this
unique artist.
Here's another of my favorite Banksys:
http://studio.st/wp-content/banksy.gif
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Oh - thanks for that :D
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The Bay Area is broadcasting public service announcements telling the gay community to stay away from the Castro district on Halloween because it's dangerous:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnKq4f1Wrmc&NR=1
Here's the Web page Home For Halloween that has this spot and more:
http://www.homeforhalloween.com/
An article from the local ABC affiliate:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=5691485
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I was surprised to read the the following sentence in TDS:
"The hate groups haven't given up, however. Read the full story by Michelle Cole of The Oregonian."
I for one am in favour of both civil partnership and marriage. To be against it, sorry, does not put one in a hate group. Or make one a hater. There are people who consider themselves very liberal who pause when expanding the idea of marriage, in particular, into anything other then it's traditional aspect. We may not like it one bit yet that has validity.
In another story, I take issue with what was posted concerning the matter in Australia. Where tfferg was quoted as saying it would be hard to pass "because the party includes many Catholics and the leader is religious.”
That is nothing but a religious slur. How would people feel if the word Jew was used instead of Catholic?
They wouldn't care for it one bit.
Australia is a British foundation; I have heard so many anti-catholic slurs in the UK that I can't even begin to number them, so I put it down to historical ties. It is a part of life there and the Brits don't even get they're being bigots.
Where I was brought up the hierarchy might be conservative but there is NOBODY so liberal as a voting Catholic.
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Hey, Jack, I was brought up Catholic and also democrat -- but in recent years I have seen my relatives body snatched over one issue, abortion. Oh, and if there is a second issue, it is probably gay marriage.
So that reference to Catholics did not bother me at all -- plus, I don't think it is a slur to call a Catholic a Catholic, do you know of any other term?
Lots of times I do get upset with jokes that stereotype catholics, and I am pretty sensitive (even though now a Unitarian), but I think outside of New York -- in the U.S. -- many Catholics have gone ultra-conservative over abortion.
I don't know what the prevailing religion in Australia is; from the article quoted it definitely seems to suggest Catholics are the most numerous, not the most conservative.
I agree with you that in the U.S., Catholics are not the most conservative. Here in Texas most of the big abortion protests are led by Baptists.
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I was surprised to read the the following sentence in TDS:
"The hate groups haven't given up, however. Read the full story by Michelle Cole of The Oregonian."
I for one am in favour of both civil partnership and marriage. To be against it, sorry, does not put one in a hate group. Or make one a hater. There are people who consider themselves very liberal who pause when expanding the idea of marriage, in particular, into anything other then it's traditional aspect. We may not like it one bit yet that has validity.
Jack you are for both, and so am I, but neither one of us would actively pursue STOPPING either civil unions or marriage through legislation. IMO that would take a great deal of motivation.
But probably they don't think of themselves as motivated by hate, but love, love of God and love of families and tradition and their own version of morality. So you are right, to say "hate group" is a judgment that may not be accurate.
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I don't like abortion. Unfortunately the only thing that might replace it is personal responsibility, and with men not wanting to use condoms and many women not insisting, and others who can't take the pill for health reasons, we are stuck with it. I'd like to see an accepted alternative, one accepted by women. It's their body. Not mine. If women support abortion I will. Men shouldn't have that much to say about it anyway, we don't have children. And how many of those abortions are caused by irresponsible men?
OK, OK, lolol, I was just surprised to see the Catholic comment on TDS. One has the impulses one grew up with and you and I both know how liberal they are in that region. I was just listening to an anti-Catholic tirade out of Kansas which left me--churchgoing or not, primarily not--rather ticked off. Catholic parents do not willfully give their children to priests as bedmates, as was claimed .
One tires of this.
I feel a lot of the most motivated antigay-marriage people believe they're right, have motivation, and are not motivated by hate so much as traditional viewpoints. They can't think out of the box, when i don't even know a box is there....I do respect their defense of the traditional position yet DON'T agree at all. I just respect it and think they will lose. Devoutly hope they DO lose.
But the ones who 'hate' are in another category completely and deserve neither respect nor toleration. They deserve nothing. It's a fine line to walk, I know....
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OK, OK, lolol, I was just surprised to see the Catholic comment on TDS. One has the impulses one grew up with and you and I both know how liberal they are in that region. I was just listening to an anti-Catholic tirade out of Kansas which left me--churchgoing or not, primarily not--rather ticked off. Catholic parents do not willfully give their children to priests as bedmates, as was claimed .
One tires of this.
Absolutely. There is a lot of misunderstanding -- and no shortage of groups who are discriminated against -- Catholics, GLBTs, women over 50 -- and men too, but in different ways.
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WOMEN OVER 50?????
Don't even START. I came close to pushing this guy out a window when he said women over 50 were useless for anything etc and etc and etc, and who needed them, just ditch them and get younger ones, not as if they matter as PEOPLE, etc.. Won't even repeat his comments. I wanted to KILL the guy.
My mother, aunts, favorite author, you name it..are all women over 50. THIS guy was well over SIXTY. I'm serious. I asked him how he could possibly think any 20 something woman would be so deranged as to put herself in the same car, let alone the same BED, as anybody his age unless she was a sickie with a grandpa complex or HE had megabucks and put her in his will, and he turned beet red and stalked out with his nose in the air.
{ It's the cowboy hat. Makes me do things...}
ANNIE PROULX didn't effectively put pen to paper until she was over 50.
Nuff said
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Jack,
If the word hate can't be used would condescension do? If someone denies someone's rights is it because he is superior?
I'm sorry but I can't find a proper word to identify this. Maybe dislike would do or distate? Intense hostility? Detestation?
'Moral' correctness?
I'm open to any other suggestions.
Oh! and about Catholics.
Up here in the boomdocks no religion has the upper hand on civil rights. So when they start moralizing on people they are kicked in the pants. Catholics or no. No need for slurs just slaps on their pompous wrists.
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Maybe they just think they are right. Who knows...Me I think they're wrong.
People into tradition always think they're right. Because that's the way it's always been done, and the way it must be done.
'If it was good enough for granny.....' has been around forever.
But it's not good enough for me.
I think they're misguided.
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Maybe they just think they are right. Who knows...Me I think they're wrong.
People into tradition always think they're right. Because that's the way it's always been done, and the way it must be done.
'If it was good enough for granny.....' has been around forever.
But it's not good enough for me.
I think they're misguided.
Tradition? I'd say ignorance.
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In another story, I take issue with what was posted concerning the matter in Australia. Where tfferg was quoted as saying it would be hard to pass "because the party includes many Catholics and the leader is religious.”
That is nothing but a religious slur. How would people feel if the word Jew was used instead of Catholic?
They wouldn't care for it one bit.
Australia is a British foundation; I have heard so many anti-catholic slurs in the UK that I can't even begin to number them, so I put it down to historical ties. It is a part of life there and the Brits don't even get they're being bigots.
Where I was brought up the hierarchy might be conservative but there is NOBODY so liberal as a voting Catholic.
Your last statement is probably correct. I received a lot of support from other teachers and even brothers coming out as gay in a catholic school and I am Anglican. However the original quote by tfferg probably refers to attempts by the hierarchy particularly Cardinal Pell, the Archbishop of Sydney to tell Catholic politicians how to vote. There was a great uproar recently when he said Catholic politicians who voted for stem cell research should not go to communion. To their credit a number of Catholic politicians told him where to go. Cardinal Pell is particularly homophobic but I have heard many ordinary Catholics say "Pell smells" :)
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You know John John and Brian,it wouldn't have bugged me if I hadn't heard someone from the Westside Baptists--yeah, THAT bunch, the ones who protest dead servicemen's funerals and anything gay--- on the radio just before reading TDS. Ellen and I were discussing what he was saying just a few hours ago, after I posted. This fellow came out with some incredible things which really got me going, churchgoing or not.
It started with a remark that all gay men are pedophiles, which was linked to all priests being gay, thus all priests are gay pedophiles. And then of course, what I quoted above:
Catholic parents willingly give their children to priests as bedmates, in full knowledge they will be used for sex. They will all burn in hell.
All linked. Impeccable logical progression, too, if the logic is from Alpha Centauri.
When my now-son's biofather walked, the man who instantly stepped in was a young gay man sharing the house with the 2 of them. The trust was implicit. He--and 99.9% of gay men IMHO--would never have even thought of 'doing anything'. Gay men as a group abhor and despise pedophiles IMHO, more passionately then any other group. Pedophiles are criminals. I also think there are a LOT of gay priests. Those Priests who abuse are a small number and are bad priests as well as criminals. And not many if any of those criminal bad priests say they are gay! Classic abusers, corrupted and on power trips. I know gay priests and their reaction to it all was total nausea.
My 6 year old nephew's baby sitter is gay and 15; he would fight to the death to prevent someone from hurting that boy. He intends [God help the church if he really does it roflmao] to become a priest.
All that was in my head, if explanations are necessary, when I read TDS.
Illogical, i admit it.
Start with one group and it inevitably bleeds into every other.
That particular Hate Group member really really bugged me.
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I couldn't find the (old) discussion about Larry Craig. Would someone either put this link in the correct thread -- or perhaps include it in The Daily Sheet? Thanks
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/10/watching-larry-.html (http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/10/watching-larry-.html)
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Hey, JD, the Senator Craig hot topic is strangely located and difficult to find! You may want to post your message here yourself:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=26246.new#new
- KittyHawk
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{snip}
I for one am in favour of both civil partnership and marriage. To be against it, sorry, does not put one in a hate group. Or make one a hater. There are people who consider themselves very liberal who pause when expanding the idea of marriage, in particular, into anything other then it's traditional aspect. We may not like it one bit yet that has validity.
In another story, I take issue with what was posted concerning the matter in Australia. Where tfferg was quoted as saying it would be hard to pass "because the party includes many Catholics and the leader is religious.”
That is nothing but a religious slur. How would people feel if the word Jew was used instead of Catholic?
{snip}
Where I was brought up the hierarchy might be conservative but there is NOBODY so liberal as a voting Catholic.
Perhaps that was true when you were growing up. It's not true any longer. As an ex-Catholic who has flirted with rejoining the Church in my weaker moments, I can tell you what I know from my own family - Catholics are routinely advised to vote against gay marriage amendments. In Michigan, my former home state, they were advised to vote for the measure that eliminated both the possibility of gay marriage and domestic partnership. And in the 2004 election 52% of Catholics in the U.S. voted for George Bush.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
And there are those who maintain that the reason that Catholics turned out for Bush in the majority was due to gay marriage.
http://www.allacademic.com/one/www/www/index.php?cmd=www_search&offset=0&limit=5&multi_search_search_mode=publication&multi_search_publication_fulltext_mod=fulltext&textfield_submit=true&search_module=multi_search&search=Search&search_field=title_idx&fulltext_search=The+or+Religion+or+Card%3A+or+Evangelicals%2C+or+Catholics%2C+or+and+or+Gay+or+Marriage+or+in+or+the+or+2004+or+Presidential+or+Election
http://polisci.msu.edu/sppc2005/papers/fripm/dtsp_sppc05.pdf
The switch you suggest - Jew for Catholic - is not an accurate switch. There are Reform Synagogues, Conservative Synagogues, Hasidic Synagogues and atheist Jews who are unaffiliated with religion. Being a Jew is an ethnic designation as well as sometimes (not always) being a religious designation. And there are varieties within Judaism. As one synagogue says in our annual LGBT parade here 'we'll marry you!'
I was once a young child in a home where I was told that if I did not change my sexual orientation I would spend eternity burning in hell. I was put in 'therapy' to correct my sexual orientation. I was told I couldn't be a practicing Catholic and an active homosexual. I agreed at age 16. Is it hateful to tell children that they are damned? I tend to think so.
Of course not all Catholics believe this. There are Catholics who are affiliated with Dignity much as there are Catholics who are involved with Catholics For a Free Choice. Then there are Catholics who follow the teachings of the church.
Pope Benedict wrote a document entitled 'Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons' when he was Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. That document described homosexual actions as 'intrinsically disordered' and that the inclination of homosexual persons is 'a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil' and 'the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.' Regarding gay bashing the document says 'The proper reaction to crimes committed against homosexual person should not be to claim that the homosexual condition is not disordered. When such a claim is made and when homosexual activity is consequently condoned, or when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other disordered notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent reactions increase.' So, to summarize, the Pope thinks that gay people are intrinsically morally evil, they are objectively disordered and that if we attempt to get gay rights we shouldn't be surprised if we get gay bashed.
It's worth noting that Pope Benedict wrote that document in 1986 - nearly 20 years before he ascended to the throne of St. Peter in 2005. The letter to the bishops has not been repudiated - in fact it is still considered an active document - and so we must accept that this notion is the accepted notion behind the hierarchy of the Church.
As I said I don't believe that individual Catholics are necessarily anti-gay - just like I don't necessarily believe that individual people of other religions are anti-gay. When (during one of those backslides I mentioned) I asked a priest how I was to come to terms with a church which was funding anti-gay initiatives (the Church in San Francisco had just sent over $20,000 towards Prop 22 which prevents California from recognizing same sex marriages) he told me that I just had to realize that they weren't Christ. I'd say he was correct.
There are even Catholics who actively work with gay people like the Rev. Robert Nugent. Rev. Nugent ministered to gay Catholics until 1999 at which time he was "permanently prohibited from any pastoral work involving homosexual persons."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/daily/aug99/nugent07.htm
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In another story, I take issue with what was posted concerning the matter in Australia. Where tfferg was quoted as saying it would be hard to pass "because the party includes many Catholics and the leader is religious.”
That is nothing but a religious slur. How would people feel if the word Jew was used instead of Catholic?
They wouldn't care for it one bit.
Australia is a British foundation; I have heard so many anti-catholic slurs in the UK that I can't even begin to number them, so I put it down to historical ties. It is a part of life there and the Brits don't even get they're being bigots.
Where I was brought up the hierarchy might be conservative but there is NOBODY so liberal as a voting Catholic.
My comment was not an anti-Catholic slur. The current Opposition party in the Australian Federal Parliament is the Australian Labor Party, whose membership historically has always included a very significant proportion of Catholics as well as other social groups. ALP politicians have always been sensitive to the perceived views of conservative, traditional Catholic supporters and the church hierarchy on issues relating to sexuality, birth control and family planning, euthanasia and recently stem cell research. A famous Catholic Cardinal led the successful anti-conscription movement during the bitterly divided campaigns twice during the First World War and good on him. Brianr has mentioned Cardinal Pell's recent intervention on the stem cell research issue in New South Wales. (The ALP was kept out of power for over 20 years from the 1950s onwards when many Catholics left the ALP to support the Democratic Labor Party which fought a campaign against communist elements in the trade union movement, which was the main financial and policy base of the ALP. The ALP was never Communist - it was a social democratic party with an evolutionary socialist platform that grew out of the defeat of the trade unions in the industrial struggles of the 1890s. The DLP was backed by the Catholic hierarchy. The DLP always supported the conservative Liberal and National Party governments which repeatedly used scare campaigns about Reds under the beds and the danger of a Communist invasion of Australia. The DLP has since dwindled into political insignificance, but some politicians have long memories of the bitterness of The Split of the 1950s.)
I know many Catholics in Australia who do not accept the dogma of the church hierarchy. They practise birth control, many of them divorce, live in de facto relationships, re-marry and they include gays and have what Americans call liberal views on most issues. (In Australia we call liberal views 'small l liberal' because the Liberal Party is a conservative party more like the American Republicans.)
In the last several decades, even when the ALP has had policies of reform on certain issues related to sexuality, etc, they have rarely made legislating them a priority when voted into government at either State or Federal level. They usually see other issues as being more important.
In Australia public opinion polls show the majority of the population is pro same-sex marriage. The opposition is highest among the old. On these sorts of issues, Australian politicians tend to be more conservative and slower to respond than the general public. A significant number of politicians are public about their religious beliefs and practice whereas the general population in Australia is much less religious than Americans and regard religion as a private matter. Most Australians would regard it as inappropriate and undemocratic for legislation to be based on religious beliefs.
A number of municipal councils, the Melbourne City Council, the State of Tasmania have set up same-sex civil union registers. It was known that that the Attorney-General in the ALP State government in Victoria wanted the State government to set up a same-sex civil union register and he had previously pushed through legislation to remove most of the forms of legal discrimination against gays and lesbians and same-sex partners. However, the Premier, who is a Catholic, would not support a civil union register at the State level. He resigned a few weeks ago. It is now expected that the State government will move to set up a state civil union register. They would probably support same-sex marriage, but marriage comes under federal jurisdiction in Australia.
The ALP consists of a number of factions which range from left to right wing. The right wing has been politically dominant within the party in recent decades. So even if it wins the Federal election next month, I wouldn't expect much in the way of real reform.
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This is the last I'm posting on the subject, as something like this can turn into the Everready Bunny of thread topics and cause hard feelings. I'll hold to that too, AFTER saying this....
Re the RCC, I don't judge an ancient institution of that size--or people in general--on their stand on any one issue. I look at all of it. I understand the anger felt by many gay men, oh yeah. My brother is gay, he made his peace with the institution as an institution a long time ago, goes to a friendly church with friendly priests. The one he was baptized in as an infant. He said for him to not go because he disagrees so much with the hierarchy would deny him what he finds at the personal level. Cause him more of a loss. He likes what it stands for behind the BS. That is his choice, I bring it up cause it is his gay choice and a valid one.
Again, thanks for all the comments and commentary, it is always good to hear what others say. And tfferg, :-*
Thanks to TYW as well.
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Again, thanks for all the comments and commentary, it is always good to hear what others say. And tfferg, :-*
Thanks to TYW as well.
Same to you, Jack.
I doubt that a bigoted broadcast of the type you heard the other day would ever be heard in Australia, unless some ranter somehow slipped through to one of the shock-jock talkback programs, which are not popular or widespread outside of Sydney. There would certainly be complaints to the Broadcasting Standards Council at the very least.
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My most sincere congratulations to Ellen!!!!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu143%2Fchriswilson1_2007%2Fbloomingrose.gif&hash=fb3270e94718a1ee9e674eb204b75455ee83e4b3)
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
(as long as we don't lose her altogether)
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Congrats, kudos and WOOT, Ellen - git 'em cowgirl!
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Fantastic news, Ellen!
Did the paper say why they chose your piece? And why did you choose that particular one to submit? It's actually quite encouraging that a review of a Rufus Wainwright concert won the competition.
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Thanks everyone for your nice comments. About mid-morning kittyhawk told me to check TDS carefully -- I went in fearing to see an embarrassing mistake, and nearly jumped out of my chair when I saw my picture-- like, how did THAT happen! The TDS team and Dave and Kittyhawk really surprised me!
As far as your question, chapeaugris -- I have written a few op-eds for the Dallas Morning News before, the editor does know me (by e-mail submissions -- many of which were NOT accepted) and I got lucky this year, about four of my letters were published. In the application process it was important to show that 1) you could write, and 2) you were active in the community.
Without previously having written for them, I would not have gone so far afield with a writing sample, but it was a stretch to show them something unexpected. ;) >:D :)
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Ellen,
Congrats and best wishes for an exciting writing career. Couldn't happen to a nicer person!
Nikki
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Congratulations Ellen on the writing gig!!!! ;D ;D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi24.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc16%2Fnikki8541%2FCongratulations0.jpg&hash=fc5d74b5cb92589aeb0c2b9607985b70c3eadcf7)
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I told you last week Ellen, this is the News Of The Month!!!!!
Very interestin, what E. Annie Proulx inspired within you.....
Much Love!
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Ellen, sincerest Congratulations. I couldn't be happier for you, honey. :-* :-* :-*
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Ellen, my pal, WAY TO GO! Isn't it wild and crazy that it was a TDS column that propelled you on to bigger and better things!?! Just goes to show the impact of BBM still goes on and on.
I'm saving all those old TDS's of ours, so when you make even bigger splashes, I can pull 'em out and tell "remember when" stories!
I'm hoping you'll be sharing these new columns with all your Brokie friends! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!! Jan
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Wonderful news, Ellen!
Congratulations and More power to your elbow!
Tony
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congratulations, ellen ! i wish we could read your articles here in europe as well....is there an online version ?
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Thanks again for all of your wonderful encouragement and good wishes. :-*
To answer desertrat, yes, the paper is on-line, I think available to all readers.
I go to an orientation next week and I'll know more then.
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I am THRILLED for you. Just THRILLED!!
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Congratulations, Ellen!!! :)
And I loved jnov's profile on TDS 19 October! Way to go, jnov! :)
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Re: Dumbledore
We discussed this news around the dinner table tonight. Younger daughter had not heard and was quite surprised. "But he doesn't dress gay," she exclaimed (like how would a gay wizard dress, anyway?) I pointed out that most gay people don't dress any particular way. I reminded her of when we met Ingmar in Nice this summer -- she couldn't tell he was gay by the way he dressed, could she? "Well, his sunglasses were kind of Chanel." ??? "And he was wearing a Hawaiian shirt." ??? ??? ::) The discussion eventually circled back around to Dumbledore and the last line belonged to my husband, who said "Well, at least Dumbledore didn't force the pupils to watch Brokeback Mountain." (He knows the days are counting down to November 7th -- my birthday -- when he will be forced to watch it if he hasn't already done so. :D )
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OMG - that story about light bulbs and the forum was PRICELESS! That's the funniest thing I've read in a while. And doesn't it beat all - that it's so true!! :D Great story.
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Who wrote the lightbulb/light bulb/lamp story? Brilliant! 8) (pun intended)
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And three people to say how funny the light bulb joke was!! thank you
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tellyouwhat - and crew,
Thanks for the interesting statistics about where all the visitors to this forum are coming from.
So much about this whole BBM Experience has been so personal, but seeing the scope of participation & reaction from a global community puts it all in a new, wider perspective. Yet another interesting facet to consider, and I have been spending time here for a year and a half now.
Thanks for all the work you put into this Forum. It has become an important part of my routine - a touch stone.
Jay
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And three people to say how funny the light bulb joke was!! thank you
LOL
The lilght bulb piece is written by ANONYMOUS -- and believe it or not, it wasn't written specifically for our forum, although it seems custom made. It is one of those things people send around the internet. ;D
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tellyouwhat - and crew,
Thanks for the interesting statistics about where all the visitors to this forum are coming from.
So much about this whole BBM Experience has been so personal, but seeing the scope of participation & reaction from a global community puts it all in a new, wider perspective. Yet another interesting facet to consider, and I have been spending time here for a year and a half now.
Thanks for all the work you put into this Forum. It has become an important part of my routine - a touch stone.
Jay
Great post Jay, thanks. The stats help to enlighten the big picture. Also, IMO it is a myth to think of the forum as only "virtual" in our lives. It has become another part of RL.
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And three people to say how funny the light bulb joke was!! thank you
LOL
The lilght bulb piece is written by ANONYMOUS -- and believe it or not, it wasn't written specifically for our forum, although it seems custom made. It is one of those things people send around the internet. ;D
Oh - that explains why there aren't 10 Forum members to write terrible photocaps about changing lightbulbs in tents or whatever ;D
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^^^^well, now you've done it, montezumae! :D
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I'm really confused today. you have me listed as a contributor on TDS, and I can't figure out what I did.
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A new "mini" Boston Slash Get-Together is being planned. Other than the date, not too much has been finalized yet, but could a thread be started for it? The dates are Nov. 30th, Dec 1st and 2nd. Ted, DontwanttosayGB is organizing it.
Thanks!
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As long as someone tells me they've created the thread so I can update the site map, I'm happy ;)
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I'm really confused today. you have me listed as a contributor on TDS, and I can't figure out what I did.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Ok. Now I see the light :)
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First, congrats Ellen!
Below is a link to Entertainment Weekly, there's an article about why BBM didn't change anything as far as bringing a flood of new gay-themed movies to the big screen. Prominently mentioned are The Front Runner and The Dreyfuss Affair, two of my favorites:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20153963,00.html
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Below is a link to a story from Time magazine titled, "Gay Men Earn Less. But Not Lesbians.":
http://time-blog.com/work_in_progress/2007/10/gay_men_earn_less_but_not_lesb.html
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Ok the "lamp" example of forum posts really made me laugh! I think that is EXACTLY how it goes! I still love it and I am sure I have an example of every type of post in my posts! Thanks for making me smile today!
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Great profile Tammy--it is always fun to read about someone you know! You rock! Even though it has been awhile I do think about you and hope that you are doing great!
A
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Below is a link to and Entertainment Weekly article about the Harry Potter character who's been revealed as gay. It's a very gay-positive article, and it deserves a wider audience:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20154416,00.html
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Telagraph.co.uk, reporting on a recent interview with Jake, gives us a peak into some of Jake’s personal thoughts. [...] Jake discusses his recent cameo for a Saturday Night Live skit, and some of his views about actors and politics. He also explains how, in Brokeback Mountain, he feels that having two straight actors helped with the authenticity of portraying the struggles of two gay cowboys.
That was a dumb thing to say.
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Here's what I think must be the quote:
OK, having established that he is not bisexual, was he being quite calculating when he allowed people to think he was? 'It was meant as a way of saying it was important for Heath [Ledger, his co-star in Brokeback Mountain] and I to have the movie exist as the movie, but also to have people know it was two straight actors playing those parts.'
I think I follow. The chemistry and tension wouldn't have worked as well if two gay actors had been playing those roles, and because they were both straight it made their sexual awkwardness more convincing, more like it might be for two cowboys. 'Exactly. Here are these two lonely people who find themselves through love. Love has no bounds and these two people found a connection in this massive, lonely landscape of Wyoming.'
I'm not sure why it was important to let people know that the actors were straight. But it looks as if Jack himself didn't 'explain' why having two straight actors helped - he just answered 'Exactly' to an interviewer's suggestion. I suppose it's possible that he was being polite or maybe he misunderstood. I disagree with the interviewer - why do you have to be straight to be able to act sexual awkwardness?
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That was a dumb thing to say.
Lyle, when I read this bit of strange analysis (quoted by Desecra above) I got the feeling they were re-visiting something said in the past -- that the logic was a bit naive and tortured -- furthermore, Jake goes on to say (in this interview) that he got some hate mail for saying that, and he learned a lot about homophobia.
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:) Great TDS today TYW! The Halloween pic was funny :D
Thanks in particular for the note on the Hollywood closet. That's been bugging me for a long time.
Hollywood is great with a lot of issues I care about like the environment and human rights. But with the closet they seem to be stuck in the 1950s! :-\
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:) Great TDS today TYW! The Halloween pic was funny :D
Thanks in particular for the note on the Hollywood closet. That's been bugging me for a long time.
Hollywood is great with a lot of issues I care about like the environment and human rights. But with the closet they seem to be stuck in the 1950s! :-\
It still makes me think of the speech that George Clooney gave the year that BBM should have one the Oscar (in my opinion), about how forward thinking Hollywood was, how they tackle the tough issue. Then BBM lost the Oscar, and as the article says, there has been little from Hollywood related to gay issues/relationships since then :-\
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You all I am so glad you like today's TDS --
Don't miss the Wanda Sykes video -- LOL it's the way she SAYS things.
(But it isn't work safe, unless you wear headphones. ;) )
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Great Sheet! As usual.
I couldn"t get to the Ultimate Amazon Connectionfor the book on Ang Lee, maybe it's my browser...
I never saw Fox News and didn't know who Bill'o was/is. I'm so glad I only have basic cable...
Can this guy be for real?
What he says is so mind blowingly ridiculous it's beyond comprehension. This guy actually has a show on TV?
He's actually wondering what fictional characters are doing on their spare time!!! Man o man.
I read the comments on the site and I never laughed so much, one commented that what the wizards did in their spare time is hide under Bill"O' bed!!!!!!!!!!!
So now I have to live with the fact that there is yet another nutcase on TV.
Thanks Daily Sheet.... ;D
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The Halloween pic was funny :D
On the topic of gnash's Bamboo comic, Jake went to a concert last night by the Jack Bambis (http://wetdarkandwild.blogspot.com/2007/10/jake-out-with-robert-downey-jr-and-yet.html) !! :D
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You all I am so glad you like today's TDS --
Don't miss the Wanda Sykes video -- LOL it's the way she SAYS things.
(But it isn't work safe, unless you wear headphones. ;) )
OMG - that was great!
SPOILER:
Kind of made you think - what's all the fuss about " If you don't believe in same sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex." So simple!
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I never saw Fox News and didn't know who Bill'o was/is. I'm so glad I only have basic cable...
Can this guy be for real?
What he says is so mind blowingly ridiculous it's beyond comprehension. This guy actually has a show on TV?
He's actually wondering what fictional characters are doing on their spare time!!! Man o man.
I read the comments on the site and I never laughed so much, one commented that what the wizards did in their spare time is hide under Bill"O' bed!!!!!!!!!!!
I recently read a very funny blog discussion; if I can find the link again I'll send it to you. One poster quipped that O'Reilly may have a point: "who knows what fictional characters are doing when we're not reading about them?" Another said that he used to sneak up on his GI Joe set in the middle of the night to see what the soldiers were up to, "but I couldn't get through their sentry system."
Kinda reminds me of the heated E&J arguments, come to think of it. >:D
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I haven't had the chance to see the Wanda Sykes video, for some reason the audio on YouTube videos isn't coming through. When I next visit the public library, I'll check it out.
But I've seen a stand-up show of Wanda, and she is hysterical! She had a recurring role on a sitcom called New Adventures of Old Christine, but they don't know how to use her properly. Haven't seen the show lately, I hope it hasn't been cancelled. Love the writing, and maybe it will be back later.
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I've loved Wanda Sykes since I saw her in Curb Your Enthusiasm.
The video was hysterical & it got better & better towards the end.
Thanks for posting the link on TDS :D
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Love this picture, I think I found our Halloween costumes for next year! :D
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Thanks for the Halloween pix! Loved the one with Jake and Ennis on the broom!
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...and the "Bewitched" capture was priceless! I've printed it out to keep for future Halloweens. I love that show!
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Milo so nice to see you buddy - what a wonderful profile!
And I love this;
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." --Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
That is a keeper! ;)
Tellyouwhat great daily as usual - keep up the good work, we all appreciate it!
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Here's a link that will please everybody, but especially Jake's fans:
http://www.towleroad.com/2007/11/gyllenhaal.html
From the mew book, "Let Me In".
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Like the cartoon characters too. Bugs Bunny is a definite.
My Dad was a big cartoon fan, and we had a stuffed Bugs Bunny figure on a table of memorabilia at his funeral -- probably one of the few memorial appearances Bugs has made. :)
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Milo so nice to see you buddy - what a wonderful profile!
And I love this;
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." --Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
That is a keeper! ;)
Tellyouwhat great daily as usual - keep up the good work, we all appreciate it!
Today's TDS was edited by Stilllearning. She does all the profiles. Thanks, Stilllearning!
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hello stillearning - or do i mean still earning!! - anyway thanks for this lovely profile of Milo, he has made so many thoughtful and wise posts, and thanks Milo!
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hello stillearning - or do i mean still earning!! - anyway thanks for this lovely profile of Milo, he has made so many thoughtful and wise posts, and thanks Milo!
Well I am "still earning" for about 20 more years until the mortgage is paid off :D, but my name here is "Still learning" - I've learned so many incredible things through this BBM experience, it's been quite a ride, and I always look forward to learning more!
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Still learning...
This movie and our forum put us all on a new learning plane.
No doubt about it!
;)
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Milo's profile was interesting and fascinating! Fantastic!
As was Tammy's some days earlier.
Bravo to such brilliant people everywhere here amongst us!
And thx to the editors for finding them!
;)
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Loved the profile of Milo. Some days, I just can't get over how lucky I am to be here, and be part of a community that includes such interesting folks.
And anyone who pays respect to their old music teachers is a great person in my books.
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You know what's really funny, almost everyone that I talk to about the profiles says "oh my life really isn't that interesting, I don't know if people would be interested?" And there hasn't been one that I've read that hasn't made me think "we have the most fascinating people in the world on this forum."
I still remember an exchange with Vic, thinking "how cool is this?- here I am in my little house, PM'ing with a new friend whose currently sitting on his 2nd story deck over-looking Athens Greece!"
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Loved the profile of Milo. Some days, I just can't get over how lucky I am to be here, and be part of a community that includes such interesting folks.
Yes -- after a year and a half on this forum, I'm still amazed at the variety of people here - all with at least one thing in common, namely a fascination with BBM.
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I don't post here often, but I really liked Milo's profile. So positive and insightful. Especially what was said about the 'regrets' and about the price paid for staying in the closet. One of the better ones I've read.
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Ditto, CSI
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Milo, that was a cool profile, makes me feel i know you better.Keep up the good work, man!
Liked tammy';s profile too. very cool
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The "deleted scenes" stories look great! There are a couple of those that I didn't know about(what kind of a BBM fan am I?). And although I knew Jack gave Ennis a gift, I never knew he rejected it, nor that the guys declined the free love the hippies offered. Can't wait for the installments!
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I'd love to see a DVD with deleted scenes as a separate feature, but IMO it's just as well those scenes were deleted. Jack trying to give Ennis a gift he rejects is a bit much -- the truck scene was devastating enough -- and the hippie scene just doesn't seem to fit somehow.
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I'd love to see a DVD with deleted scenes as a separate feature, but IMO it's just as well those scenes were deleted. Jack trying to give Ennis a gift he rejects is a bit much -- the truck scene was devastating enough -- and the hippie scene just doesn't seem to fit somehow.
I know, when I saw Ennis rejected the gift, it just gave me this sinking feeling. And to be honest, I don't want to see Jack and Randal together, but I am anxious to get some insight into why those scenes didn't make the cut, so to speak.
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I have a DVD of Mists of Avalon, and it has a separate section for deleted scenes, with a caption on each scene explaining why it was deleted. IMO, that would be a good approach for subsequent versions of Brokeback DVDs, as it would leave the original intact but still let fans look at the scenes.
The "Theocracy Now" story was especially relevant this morning, with Pat Robertson 'endorsing' Rudy Giuliani. We might not have to wait till Chinese New Year or Independence Day to see some fireworks. >:D
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I'd love to see a DVD with deleted scenes as a separate feature, but IMO it's just as well those scenes were deleted. Jack trying to give Ennis a gift he rejects is a bit much -- the truck scene was devastating enough -- and the hippie scene just doesn't seem to fit somehow.
I know, when I saw Ennis rejected the gift, it just gave me this sinking feeling. And to be honest, I don't want to see Jack and Randal together, but I am anxious to get some insight into why those scenes didn't make the cut, so to speak.
I can't say how glad I am that the "Jack and Randall" scene was cut. It gives the character so much more "presence" than he ever had in the book, where we are given the option of regarding him as a fiction, or as a reality, as is our own wish.
This further uncertainty is an asset to the plot, which having him in the film to an even greater extent, and for my money he is in the film too much anyway, would take away.
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I know those of you who put together our Sheet don't get nearly enough thanks. So:
THANK YOU.
There's always something interesting, and I really enjoyed (duh!) the Deleted Scenes discussion at Finding Brokeback. The links are always wonderful.
We really do appreciate your hard work.
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Seconded :).
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Hey, thanks. ;D and speaking for Stilllearning as well, she has really come up to speed quickly.
I feel like I should tell you, though, I am taking a break this weekend, and with my new gig I'm not sure how much I can be devoted in the future, although I am committed to keeping the Wednesdays run with the deleted scenes series. We'll see how it goes.
I say it over and over, the TDS team is so fabulous --um dare I say this? -- I don't know how to quit them!! :D ;D ;D
They are great, and much more reliable than Ennis. But I do need to turn my attention to some other things---
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Dommage, Ellen! :-\
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Seeing Jack and Randall in yet another, more explicit scene - that would be a big NO NO for me!
Never ever, I hope.
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I have always had mixed feelings about those deleted scenes making into the public domain. Inevitable, I suppose. They do underscore, however, the brilliance of the editing and the depth of understanding Ang Lee had for the story.(in that they did not make it into the final cut) The hippie scene was, of course, written by Schamus and it shows in that the tone and dialog are so totally out of sync with the original story and balance of the film.
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I agree with you Gary -- there are a lot of small things (like, the meaning of Mexico, and "the ranch foreman's wife") that we get a chance to mull over in the short story, some of it we have to guess at, the implication is so cleverly woven into the dialogue or the narrative.
Even the dirty punch, when it is finally explained, took me quite a few readings to realize the importance of the flashback.
IMO Ang Lee attempted to fill in just enough information (and the scene with Randall made it clear "ranch foreman's wife" probably didn't mean a woman) -- but not so much information that we really know for sure if anything happened with Randall, specifically. And anybody recognizing the two of them would have taken all the doubt away from the tire iron question (real, or not?)
Truly an amazing job.
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I used to wish the deleted scenes would someday be included in the DVD extras but I've changed my mind. I would be interested to see stills of those scenes and read an explanation of what happened in each scene and why it was not used, but seeing actual footage would inevitably bleed into and contaminate my memory of the film.
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I used to wish the deleted scenes would someday be included in the DVD extras but I've changed my mind. I would be interested to see stills of those scenes and read an explanation of what happened in each scene and why it was not used, but seeing actual footage would inevitably bleed into and contaminate my memory of the film.
I tend to agree. For example, I wish I didn't know that it wasn't Jake who jumped off the cliff, it sort changes the feel of that scene for me a bit.
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Recently I wandered into one of the Elements and Scenes threads for the first time and saw a new member asked about the scene where Jack is washing clothes in the stream, which is one of my favourites. A regular on that thread replied with a long explanation linking it a scene in the short story that isn't in the film, as well as to a couple of other things in the film and I really regretted reading it. It just sucked the mystery and beauty out of the moment for me (temporarily -- I watched it again). Obviously some people love deep analysis but it can sometimes spoil a scene for me. So I'm all for deleting scenes if they would have provided too much information.
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Seeing Jack and Randall in yet another, more explicit scene - that would be a big NO NO for me!
Never ever, I hope.
I knew I could rely on you, Ing! :-*
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Recently I wandered into one of the Elements and Scenes threads for the first time and saw a new member asked about the scene where Jack is washing clothes in the stream, which is one of my favourites. A regular on that thread replied with a long explanation linking it a scene in the short story that isn't in the film, as well as to a couple of other things in the film and I really regretted reading it. It just sucked the mystery and beauty out of the moment for me (temporarily -- I watched it again). Obviously some people love deep analysis but it can sometimes spoil a scene for me. So I'm all for deleting scenes if they would have provided too much information.
When entering "elements and scenes" be afraid, be very afraid. I just read a series of posts over there concerning Ennis "lying" to himself and it literally, actually, gave me a headache. Nothing, however, compared to the root canal like pain brought on by the posts disucussing the symbolism of the word "a" and "the".
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I can't help but think that while filming the stupid hippie scene Ang knew he would never include it in the final cut.
I still wonder why Shamus thought of such a scene, it has nothing to do with the SS.
I too would not like to see it.
There are two scenes that intrigue me though, the one where we see J and E in the truck together and the one where we see E at the cemetery.
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Recently I wandered into one of the Elements and Scenes threads for the first time and saw a new member asked about the scene where Jack is washing clothes in the stream, which is one of my favourites. A regular on that thread replied with a long explanation linking it a scene in the short story that isn't in the film, as well as to a couple of other things in the film and I really regretted reading it. It just sucked the mystery and beauty out of the moment for me (temporarily -- I watched it again). Obviously some people love deep analysis but it can sometimes spoil a scene for me. So I'm all for deleting scenes if they would have provided too much information.
When entering "elements and scenes" be afraid, be very afraid. I just read a series of posts over there concerning Ennis "lying" to himself and it literally, actually, gave me a headache. Nothing, however, compared to the root canal like pain brought on by the posts disucussing the symbolism of the word "a" and "the".
Hey, that's nothing compared to what it does to us, and we write the stuff! :D :D ;)
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I would love to see the deleted scenes but only as outtakes.
I love FindingBrokeback.com, it's an amazing site.
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I can't help but think that while filming the stupid hippie scene Ang knew he would never include it in the final cut.
I still wonder why Shamus thought of such a scene, it has nothing to do with the SS.
Some time back someone found a site with an audio interview of Heath Ledger by a journalist for a Philadelphia newspaper in which Heath explained the background to the hippies scene. He said that Shamus wanted to show E&J being heroic cowboys in some way. Heath said that everyone working that scene -- except for the actors playing the hippies -- just knew that Ang would never use it. That interview was removed from the site not long after we discussed it (in the French thread as well, tu te souviens, Jean?) so I guess it was pounced on by a lot of people. :D
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I can't help but think that while filming the stupid hippie scene Ang knew he would never include it in the final cut.
I still wonder why Shamus thought of such a scene, it has nothing to do with the SS.
I too would not like to see it.
There are two scenes that intrigue me though, the one where we see J and E in the truck together and the one where we see E at the cemetery.
The rationale, as I have been led to understand,is that Schamus felt, very strongly, that the film needed to contain a scene that depicted the boys as capable men in the vein of typical film Western heroes, ie. John Wayne, James Stewart etc. Note that in the script the hiippie, dear lord protect us. even calls the two of them" Western heroes". All the subtlety of a Paul Haggis script. ;D
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Some time back someone found a site with an audio interview of Heath Ledger by a journalist for a Philadelphia newspaper in which Heath explained the background to the hippies scene. He said that Shamus wanted to show E&J being heroic cowboys in some way. Heath said that everyone working that scene -- except for the actors playing the hippies -- just knew that Ang would never use it. That interview was removed from the site not long after we discussed it (in the French thread as well, tu te souviens, Jean?) so I guess it was pounced on by a lot of people. :D
Geez!! I must be getting old, I don't remember that.
Merci Kim :-*
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The rationale, as I have been led to understand,is that Schamus felt, very strongly, that the film needed to contain a scene that depicted the boys as capable men in the vein of typical film Western heroes, ie. John Wayne, James Stewart etc. Note that in the script the hiippie, dear lord protect us. even calls the two of them" Western heroes". All the subtlety of a Paul Haggis script. ;D
Man Oh Man!!! That's awful ???
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seeing actual footage would inevitably bleed into and contaminate my memory of the film
that's EXACTLY it, Kim
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I knew I could rely on you, Ing! :-*
(((janjo))) :-*
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Michael's profile on today's TDS is outstanding, refreshing, wise and funny - simply fantastic !!
Bravo, Michael.
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I want to know what kind of dance lessons Michael thinks he needs to take before visiting the UK. ??? :D
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Yeah! Whoooo Michael!! ;D ;D ;D
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OMG Michael !!! :-* :-* :)
Sorry to hear you'll be setting the book and film clubs aside, but fantastic news on the Diamanda book writing!!! We are so proud of you!!! :) :-* :-*
I've always thought you reminded me of her ... maybe it was that Grace Jones costume?!? ;D
Anyway I'm so glad to hear about this - congrats and best wishes!!
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Thanks Ingy, Nick & Widge!
So far as the clubs go - it's been a good run! And I hope someone else takes it up.
The dancing - if you visit the 'what are you listening to now' thread you'll see that we've been going through about every form of music - my dance card's full! :D
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Great profile in The Daily Sheet, Michael.
And as for the other article about the changes in your life -- you will be sorely missed in the book club, but please know I'm hoping that you get to do everything else you've wanted to do, now that you'll some free time. Good luck on that book project.
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Thanks Debbie! I'm working on it!
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I loved reading your profile Michael!
Your favorite BBM scene?
Well - of course I like the tent scenes, but I really like the phone conversation between Ennis and Lureen too.
:'( I did too!
And WOW you met Bob Marley, I am impressed!
See ya on Dancing with the Stars! ;)
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Best uncut scene from the movie: Michael Flanagan and Jack Twist fightin' for "grazing rights" with Ennis in the tent!
Short of that, a three ring circus comes closest to being Michael Flanagan. He ain't no can of beans!
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Thanks for the profile of Michael in the current TDS! Another winner. Michael, you rock!
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Michael, enjoyed your profile in TDS -- very interesting -- then again, everything about you is interesting!!
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Your favorite BBM scene?
Well - of course I like the tent scenes, but I really like the phone conversation between Ennis and Lureen too.
:'( I did too!
Thanks Lola - in that part of the film I always get the feeling that Jack wasn't the only one waiting around for 'something she don't hardly never get' - and the moment when she realizes who Ennis really is - it's one of the most riveting points in the movie.
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Thanks Nikki and Jer - as I said, you'll see me around in the 'What are you reading now' thread - which now included 'Dhalgren' as Jim (jim.grrr) recommended it.
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Enjoy your extra 'free time', Michael!
baa
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Great profile Michael!
Liked every bit of it ;)
and know that you are loving finishing up your writing and hope it leads to other things.
I get this visual of you in a kilt doing a jig!! ::) ;D
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I just wanted to add another thanks for your work on the threads, Michael. Best of luck for the future :).
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I just wanted to add another thanks for your work on the threads, Michael. Best of luck for the future :).
Thank you! I'm so glad you were able to stop by the last film club that I was mod for - I've always appreciated your comments.
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Michael, thank you for everything! This will be a much poorer place w/o your--let us call it what it is---wisdom.
and point taken dude!
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Recently I wandered into one of the Elements and Scenes threads for the first time and saw a new member asked about the scene where Jack is washing clothes in the stream, which is one of my favourites. A regular on that thread replied with a long explanation linking it a scene in the short story that isn't in the film, as well as to a couple of other things in the film and I really regretted reading it. It just sucked the mystery and beauty out of the moment for me (temporarily -- I watched it again). Obviously some people love deep analysis but it can sometimes spoil a scene for me. So I'm all for deleting scenes if they would have provided too much information.
When entering "elements and scenes" be afraid, be very afraid. I just read a series of posts over there concerning Ennis "lying" to himself and it literally, actually, gave me a headache. Nothing, however, compared to the root canal like pain brought on by the posts disucussing the symbolism of the word "a" and "the".
On the other hand, I would LIKE to see those scenes, so long as they were not edited into the film. They would be fascinating>>>>all the 'what ifs....'
And hey gary, wait a moment....while the words the and a have no symbolism, they DO have a tremendous importance in understanding certain sentences of the short story. It is the only tale I have ever read where placement of the and a can completely alter the meaning of an entire paragraph....
It's a true masterpiece,what AP wrote... no doubt of that.
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And WOW you met Bob Marley, I am impressed!
They were probably JAMMIN' together... ;) :D
(I'm impressed too.)
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I just came in to say, belatedly, how much I loved the link to the deleted scenes and there's all kinds of things happening here!
To those of you that had kind words to say about my profile, thank you so much! It was definitely sweet and very appreciated.
I love reading the profiles here. Milo and Michael - the latest two - were wonderful! The Bob Marley pic blew me away! Milo - you're a gem. Michael - I'd love to find a nice, quiet café somewhere and talk about books. One of my favourite past-times!
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Michael
I'll miss the great work you did on the book and film clubs - thank you for all the challenging discussions.
Best of luck with the Diamanda book - I'm looking forward to reading it.
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I agree with you Gary -- there are a lot of small things (like, the meaning of Mexico, and "the ranch foreman's wife") that we get a chance to mull over in the short story, some of it we have to guess at, the implication is so cleverly woven into the dialogue or the narrative.
Even the dirty punch, when it is finally explained, took me quite a few readings to realize the importance of the flashback.
IMO Ang Lee attempted to fill in just enough information (and the scene with Randall made it clear "ranch foreman's wife" probably didn't mean a woman) -- but not so much information that we really know for sure if anything happened with Randall, specifically. And anybody recognizing the two of them would have taken all the doubt away from the tire iron question (real, or not?)
Now this has really piqued my interest, how is the dirty punch related to the Flashback? And is it the dozy embrace flashback?
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What a great Nov. 9 TDS! Neatfreak's challenge to us & great book recommendation, very thought-provoking posts by Cletis [I love the "Is society as accepting.." thread] and Bcatjr ...AND profile and wonderful pics of Michael Flanagan.....it's true, Michael, you rock!
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Jack - I'll still be around, I'm just not moderating!
Tony/QH - one of these days I hope to wander by your parts of the world.
Tammy - thanks! See you in the UK!
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I agree with you Gary -- there are a lot of small things (like, the meaning of Mexico, and "the ranch foreman's wife") that we get a chance to mull over in the short story, some of it we have to guess at, the implication is so cleverly woven into the dialogue or the narrative.
Even the dirty punch, when it is finally explained, took me quite a few readings to realize the importance of the flashback.
IMO Ang Lee attempted to fill in just enough information (and the scene with Randall made it clear "ranch foreman's wife" probably didn't mean a woman) -- but not so much information that we really know for sure if anything happened with Randall, specifically. And anybody recognizing the two of them would have taken all the doubt away from the tire iron question (real, or not?)
Now this has really piqued my interest, how is the dirty punch related to the Flashback? And is it the dozy embrace flashback?
Stilllearning -- In the story, we don't see it happen (the punch) -- it is only mentioned as a bruise on Jack's face from a punch while they are saying goodbye. Ennis already feels bad about it. We have no idea why he would punch Jack, it is a painful thought, even to the reader. Then he mentions it again in the motel (like in the movie) and Jack answers, he never figured Ennis to throw a dirty punch. Ennis blames it on how he grew up having to defend himself against his older brother.
It's only later, at the moment when Ennis finds the shirts, when Annie P. explains a confusing scene with "contortionistic grappling" and Jack's knee caused the nosebleed, the staunching of the blood with his sleeve, and Ennis laid the ministering angel out in the wild columbine.
Took me forever to figure out that was the punch! It is a flashback when Ennis finds the shirts.
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Michael, I am so glad you filled out those profile questions at last!
:D :D :D
And so glad you will still be here on the board commenting.
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I agree with you Gary -- there are a lot of small things (like, the meaning of Mexico, and "the ranch foreman's wife") that we get a chance to mull over in the short story, some of it we have to guess at, the implication is so cleverly woven into the dialogue or the narrative.
Even the dirty punch, when it is finally explained, took me quite a few readings to realize the importance of the flashback.
IMO Ang Lee attempted to fill in just enough information (and the scene with Randall made it clear "ranch foreman's wife" probably didn't mean a woman) -- but not so much information that we really know for sure if anything happened with Randall, specifically. And anybody recognizing the two of them would have taken all the doubt away from the tire iron question (real, or not?)
Now this has really piqued my interest, how is the dirty punch related to the Flashback? And is it the dozy embrace flashback?
It is hard because the whole picture is not as clear without both SS and film at your service, IMO. There are differing interpretations based on each, and I doubt any of us has the same ideas we had originally, before discussion of all this at length. It indeed has so many layers, it takes a while to absorb.
One thing Ellen reminds us of is the mention of the punch at the Reunion; Ennis also attributes the punch to his father telling him that there's nothing like hurting someone to make them hear good, in the SS.
IMO, that alters the perception of the punch as simply an angry verision of 'see ya around'. It tells us something transpired between them at that moment-and we don't know what, until we get to the fact that Jack 'ministered' to Ennis, as remembered by Ennis, at the end, when he sees the shirts. He connects Jack's love and his ministering with his needing to make him hear good-ie, 'I'm not no queer'-in the act of the punch. So he kind of sees where he went really wrong, in terms of what it did to Jack.
There are other POVs on this, ad infinitum, in the Themes and scenes threads, too.
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Farewell, Michael, and thanks for all of it.
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Jack - I'll still be around, I'm just not moderating!
Tony/QH - one of these days I hope to wander by your parts of the world.
Hope so, Michael. I'd love to meet you in person.
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thank you Michael, for the profile and for so much else
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu143%2Fchriswilson1_2007%2Fgomaith.jpg&hash=abc8f026d222fcc454cff67b849981fd9c1694e1)
added later - and of course I should have said - let me wish you much inspiration for the writing, which can be a lonely business, I guess, but you won't be lonely :D
(nearly typed lovely, lol)
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Ta' failte romhat!!!
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Recently I wandered into one of the Elements and Scenes threads for the first time and saw a new member asked about the scene where Jack is washing clothes in the stream, which is one of my favourites. A regular on that thread replied with a long explanation linking it a scene in the short story that isn't in the film, as well as to a couple of other things in the film and I really regretted reading it. It just sucked the mystery and beauty out of the moment for me (temporarily -- I watched it again). Obviously some people love deep analysis but it can sometimes spoil a scene for me. So I'm all for deleting scenes if they would have provided too much information.
I wouldn't want to see them incorporated into the movie: from what I've read they didn't fit, for various reasons. But I'd look at them in a separate DVD section -- for that matter, I'd be willing to sit for hours and look at all the outtakes!
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I agree with you Gary -- there are a lot of small things (like, the meaning of Mexico, and "the ranch foreman's wife") that we get a chance to mull over in the short story, some of it we have to guess at, the implication is so cleverly woven into the dialogue or the narrative.
Even the dirty punch, when it is finally explained, took me quite a few readings to realize the importance of the flashback.
IMO Ang Lee attempted to fill in just enough information (and the scene with Randall made it clear "ranch foreman's wife" probably didn't mean a woman) -- but not so much information that we really know for sure if anything happened with Randall, specifically. And anybody recognizing the two of them would have taken all the doubt away from the tire iron question (real, or not?)
Now this has really piqued my interest, how is the dirty punch related to the Flashback? And is it the dozy embrace flashback?
It is hard because the whole picture is not as clear without both SS and film at your service, IMO. There are differing interpretations based on each, and I doubt any of us has the same ideas we had originally, before discussion of all this at length. It indeed has so many layers, it takes a while to absorb.
One thing Ellen reminds us of is the mention of the punch at the Reunion; Ennis also attributes the punch to his father telling him that there's nothing like hurting someone to make them hear good, in the SS.
IMO, that alters the perception of the punch as simply an angry verision of 'see ya around'. It tells us something transpired between them at that moment-and we don't know what, until we get to the fact that Jack 'ministered' to Ennis, as remembered by Ennis, at the end, when he sees the shirts. He connects Jack's love and his ministering with his needing to make him hear good-ie, 'I'm not no queer'-in the act of the punch. So he kind of sees where he went really wrong, in terms of what it did to Jack.
There are other POVs on this, ad infinitum, in the Themes and scenes threads, too.
The "punch", I get. Once we get all of the informtion, it becomes an exquisite combination of event and motivation.
I dont' know how many of you have actually had your nose bloodied by being hit, but it hurts like hell.
Your first, and strongest, reflex is to strike the offender (no matter how much "ministering" may be going on.)
So, this first motivation for the punch is classic human nature.
Then we learn, later, the remaining context.
This is their last day on the mountain.
Ennis is pissed (losing a month's pay).
But it is more than than.
He is losing control.
He later blames the punch on a lesson about control his Dad taught him. (What a guy)
We know of course, and later so does Ennis, that he is about to go totally out of control.
(The "irreversible" free fall down the mountain, the disorientation, the beastial sounds,
and finally, literally becoming sick to his stomach.)
Schamus, of course, wanted to spell this out in the film,
hence the "gift of a rifle sequence" in which Ennis says
"I don't need you ". (Again, blessedly, not used in the final cut)
Here is the dilemma, at least for me, however.
In the motel, Ennis says, "I shouldn't a let you outa my sights". This
is a fairly big confession for Ennis to make, don't you thinK?. (Even if he does cover his
tracks by saying, "Too late then by a long, long, while").
Of course, this gives Jack hope in that he figures he might be
able to convince Ennis that it is not too late.
Still, Ennis, in that scene is being remarkably honest about his feelings
and even his sexuality.
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gary I agree, the things Ennis said at the Reunion, (l'il darlin) and in the motel, in the short story, were a big part of what made the Reunion so satisfying.
And yes, with our hindsight, the punch looks like something completely different than it probably FELT to Ennis at the moment it happened. But then he worried about it for the whole four years. Also strange how he blamed their four year separation on Jack (forebearing to ask whose fault that was.)
You have given me the perfect opportunity to post this link to the Brokeback STORY discussion (which is no longer active, but still there to read) in the Close Range (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=12416.msg592702#msg592702) thread.
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Thanks, Ellen. Yes, I remember that thread from about this time last year. I did not participate but very much enjoyed reading it.
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seeing actual footage would inevitably bleed into and contaminate my memory of the film
that's EXACTLY it, Kim
I feel the same. I wouldn't mind seeing the extension of the scene at their final meeting when Ennis greets Jack with a hug (actually, I'd love to see that live hug) and Jack tells him that the father-in-law has died; I actually wouldn't mind seeing the hippie scene, if only to see them in another context, but I could do without that too. Having once watched it, I might just shrug--but it does explain how Jack loses his signature black hat (down the river) ;)
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After all these many months (years) of seeing your name, it was great to see your profile, Michael. I love that pic of you with the Rocky Mountains in the background. So that's you !
:-*
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After all these many months (years) of seeing your name, it was great to see your profile, Michael. I love that pic of you with the Rocky Mountains in the background. So that's you !
:-*
Thanks! I really like that picture too. ;) :D
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Yee-haw! There are photos of Michael riding a frisky horse in Colorado, spurring his guts out (?) Wavin' to the boys (an' hunky wranglers) in the stands! No way Flanagan was gonna be dashboarded! Yee-haw! (Eye witnesses and other desparados included Killersmom, so it's gotta be true. I ain't lying.)
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Bravo, Bobby19in1963!
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Bravo, Bobby19in1963!
Amen!
Bobby, you are an inspiration! :-*
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GREAT letter from Bobby. If you haven't already done so, chime in with a comment at the bottom of the page. Young people with similar struggles need to see those affirmations in print.
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Good article, Bobby, and great picture. I for one am proud to be in the same community as you, if this forum can be considered a community...
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Bobby you know I am so proud of you! :-*
But you have to check this out :D ;
http://mormonsexposed.com/faq.php
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I feel the same. I wouldn't mind seeing the extension of the scene at their final meeting when Ennis greets Jack with a hug (actually, I'd love to see that live hug) and Jack tells him that the father-in-law has died; I actually wouldn't mind seeing the hippie scene, if only to see them in another context, but I could do without that too. Having once watched it, I might just shrug--but it does explain how Jack loses his signature black hat (down the river) ;)
I wouldn't mind seeing extra scenes in a separate "deleted scenes" section; hey, they're Ennis-Jack scenes. Most viewers don't let the differences between the film and SS to totally derail their enjoyment of the movie; >:D if the scenes aren't edited back in IMO most viewers could certainly handle it.
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The link to the article about Bobby isn't working. Have they shut it down?
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GREAT letter from Bobby. If you haven't already done so, chime in with a comment at the bottom of the page. Young people with similar struggles need to see those affirmations in print.
I hope a lot of Forum members go to that site and leave a comment. There are the usual messages about “special rights”, “natural law”, one letter praising “a wonderful article from Jeffrey R. Holland regarding same gender attraction and how it is not a sin as long as the thought and feeling is not acted on.” There was also, God/dess help him, a letter from a guy who was in “reparative therapy.” But the overwhelming majority of them have been very positive and encouraging, and the letters take up over 10 pages now.
There was recently a big flap over the newspaper in the County seat of my county printing an engagement announcement for a gay male couple. No marriage/civil unions in Missouri but they were planning a commitment ceremony. A number of people were enraged and wrote to the paper threatening to cancel their subscriptions and three advertisers actually cancelled. But for over four weeks, these letters were followed up by people expressing support for the couple and the newspaper, and it thoroughly demolished the claims of some of the earlier letter-writers that the majority of people in the Midwest wanted gay people to essentially be invisible. Your letters count.
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The link to the article about Bobby isn't working. Have they shut it down?
This one works, as of this morning:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/101942
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I tried it again, it just won't load for me. Iternet Explorer cannot display this page. Perhaps it's me?
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I hope this is okay with Bobby -- here is the full text of his column.
But the link, if you can get it to work, has a good picture of him too.
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/101942
Gay Mormon calls on church for acceptance
Robert Parker, Commentary
For 30 years, I have been a leader in my church and community of Mesa. I announce to the world in this column that I am a gay Mormon. Putting those two words together in print is the hardest thing I’ve had to face.
Perhaps this article will shed some light on one of the key issues in our society today — gay rights and religious conservatism.
Coming from a gay man in a church whose members are, for the most part, conservative, my announcement will surely cause discomfort among many because of the tension that exists between science and religious policy on this issue. Some may not know what it is like to be a gay Mormon; hopefully, this column will shed some light and open a door to serious, well-directed discussion. Up until now, I have kept secret my sexual orientation. “Coming out” has now allowed me to embark upon a more intense journey toward inner spiritual peace. I realize that this will seem ironic to most.
For my fellow Christians, I want you to know that Jesus is my best friend. It is wonderful to have his love with me, His assurance that he loves me just the way I am. I have been taught that I am made in the image of God. Yet even with his help, I realize that the future holds many trials for me as an openly gay man in a conservative religion.
My predicament is not unique in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. By some estimates there are as many as 500,000 gay Mormons. For us, the church has erected a crippling series of obstacles which have driven many gay Mormons to suicide. Utah has the highest rate of suicides among males age 15-24. Hardest hit by church policies are younger gay Mormon men who have had to create “anti-suicide pacts” to help each other live until they can eventually cope with a church that denies them life-affirming relationships. Many of us are living a life of closeted denial and secrecy as our leaders and fellow members compare our “condition” to Down syndrome, autism, alcoholism or drug addiction.
In a church that teaches constantly about marriage and family, we are told that to be accepted we must remain celibate as gays, without the blessing of a companion. We are denied respect for our God-given feelings for one another and the spiritual aspect of our devotion to a companion. I am convinced that, just as for straight people, gay people too get nearer to God through life-affirming, enduring relationships.
I find it puzzling that in a church that emphasizes intellectual attainment and education and boasts leaders in academia, the weird practice of so-called “reparative therapy” is still the treatment often recommended by some church leaders to gay members of their congregations. This therapy is not only unscientific and ineffective; it can be damaging and has been debunked by both of the leading professional societies in psychiatry and psychology. I told the therapist I was referred to that I didn’t want anything to do with reparative therapy because there was nothing wrong with me that needed repairing. It is clear to me, as it must be to most literate people, that homosexuality is simply a human biological variant, an immutable trait appearing in an ever-present segment of the human population.
With the continuing advance of scientific knowledge, particularly in the area of genetics, I believe that the church’s policy on gays will eventually change. I understand that the church wishes to remain in the mainstream in the eyes of our society. When a tipping point comes in social enlightenment about the situation of gays, as it surely will, the church will undoubtedly respond as it did to the civil rights movement when the priesthood was allowed to men of all races in 1978, or as it did when the practice of polygamy was discontinued in the 19th century in response to social and governmental pressure. Until that future day, I remain saddened that some families may be torn apart, and many of my gay brothers and sisters will grieve and be denied a loving companion.
After being in denial my whole life — denial which was encouraged by a policy that I consider unfair, a policy of a church I have loved and served — I am now allowing myself to be free, and to be me. It is my prayer that my church will move quickly toward that day when its policies will change.
If I help others through this column by encouraging kind and tolerant discussion and not rancor, I will be pleased and know that I am advancing God’s will in helping others who have lost faith in their church but wish to remain true to their God and his son and to themselves. I will stay true to the person I was from the beginning, a gay man, a good man, with a better future and a God who doesn’t make any junk.
Robert Parker has been a community activist
and church member for more than 30 years.
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The link to Bob's article works but one has to be patient and try a few times. I commented there already under my real name so i won't do here :)
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Jimmy's photocaption (Troy/baseball) is just priceless! I'd have chosen it too! :D
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Hi! All:
Need some help. You guys/gals are familiar with others on the Forum and may have more time than I at present. Bite off what you can chew and I'll do the rest. All I need is for you to shoot me the info, I'll put together an email and attach my article and make a plea for them to run it in their papers.
I have the word from Dave and Lydia about how I should go about doing this. I need some help finding the Op-Ed Editors of the various papers we might approach with my article. http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/101942?cp=18#comments BTW, I'm doing a video interview for the Tribune Website this afternoon at 4 p.m. and will post a link here to that when it happens. Be thinking of me. Hope I do it justice.
Anyway, here's the advice from Dave. If you can help, or can pass it on to someone who can help, please do. I want the article to be seen by as many Mormons and others as possible around our land and the world. It has generated lots of interest in the past 24 hours and I want to keep it up. The GOAL? To help young gay Mormon boys especially find solutions to their challenges outside of suicide. Another one hung himself Friday in a hotel room in Las Vegas, added to one who hanged himself the week before in Draper, Utah. Every five hours a GLBT youth commits suicide. That's OUTRAGEOUS!
Thanx! for your help.
Bobby
Bobby, I just talked to Dave about the best way to get word out about your story. This is his advice as a person who has written many newspaper and magazine articles himself.
• First of all, as the author, the pitch SHOULD come directly from you. They'll have much more interest than if the Forum or various friends send it on your behalf.
• Second, you should send the pitch to the op-ed editor or the feature editor specifically. Not the news editors that appear on our media list from the Variety ad. That list wom't help.
• Third, you (and your friends) do the research and find the newspapers, correct editors and email addresses. (Dave didn't say this, but if I were you, I'd ask various friends to help find this info for you in their local papers. That saves you from having to do so many.)
• Fourth, send an email to that person (one editor at a time - not a mass email) with the subject line "op-ed pitch: controversy on AZ Mormon coming out" or something else that short. Then write one very brief paragraph describing your article and note that there have been x pages of responses to it and give them the link.
• Fifth, include your contact info, of course.
Dave says that's the best way to do it and it sounds to me like it's the most professional and effective way to go. I hope this helps and I hope the video went well.
- Lydia
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Lola: My computer won't go to that link. I'll check it out at home later. Thanx!
Bobby
Bobby you know I am so proud of you! :-*
But you have to check this out :D ;
http://mormonsexposed.com/faq.php
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I have notice that those who live overseas cannot open the link to the Story.
Those who live in England have been able to open it, but I have seen that those in France, Sweden, Finland and I think Japan, cannot open it. I do not know why this is the case, but it is.
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Jimmy's photocaption (Troy/baseball) is just priceless! I'd have chosen it too! :D
I agree Ing, this explains why Ennis could not accept that Alma Jr. had broken up with Troy. ;D
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I have notice that those who live overseas cannot open the link to the Story.
Those who live in England have been able to open it, but I have seen that those in France, Sweden, Finland and I think Japan, cannot open it. I do not know why this is the case, but it is.
No I am in England and I couldn't open it. But thank you for printing the article folks!
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Anyway, here's the advice from Dave. If you can help, or can pass it on to someone who can help, please do. I want the article to be seen by as many Mormons and others as possible around our land and the world. It has generated lots of interest in the past 24 hours and I want to keep it up. The GOAL? To help young gay Mormon boys especially find solutions to their challenges outside of suicide. Another one hung himself Friday in a hotel room in Las Vegas, added to one who hanged himself the week before in Draper, Utah. Every five hours a GLBT youth commits suicide. That's OUTRAGEOUS!
Religion has done a lot to "encourage" self hatred among gay folks, Bobby. I left religion (and religous people for the most part) years ago because of that.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=3482.msg1076715#msg1076715
Best wishes,
Hugs,
Rob
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I have notice that those who live overseas cannot open the link to the Story.
Those who live in England have been able to open it, but I have seen that those in France, Sweden, Finland and I think Japan, cannot open it. I do not know why this is the case, but it is.
I had no problem opening it from France.
ETA: Well, that was yesterday. Now I can't get on.
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I tried to post a comment but I'm not sure it let me - Bravo Bobby!
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Following the apology, Jackson then added, "If I've offended any horses, Texans, cowboys or gays, I apologize.”
To me, this makes it worse. How can I take his apology seriously when he ends it with this line?
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Hooray, Trigger!!! :-* :-*
Enjoyed reading the profile - Haven't talked w/you in a while - we love you!! :)
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YAY YAY YAY, Nick!
A wonderful profile and most beautiful tribute to your love. :-*
Thanks for your sharing with us. ;)
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Hooray, Trigger!!! :-* :-*
Enjoyed reading the profile - Haven't talked w/you in a while - we love you!! :)
Thanks wdj, miss you!
hopin' you're ok.
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YAY YAY YAY, Nick!
A wonderful profile and most beautiful tribute to your love. :-*
Thanks for your sharing with us. ;)
Was so difficult writing it, but now having read it, wish I'd written more. Realised I left out saying I used to post here on the forum as Nick_F; guessing some people may think I am a new boy here... ;D
Wished I had said more about Rob, the forum and the film....ho hum!
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well Nick - better late than never, surely you are allowed an addendum.
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well Nick - better late than never, surely you are allowed an addendum.
There's a thought! Maybe that would put me at the top of the Newsbox, like previous profiles.......................
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Nick, my friend, I loved your Profile..it's hard to believe that we first met over 1 1/2 yrs ago at BradInBlue's home....I think I love you and Rob more now. ;D :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Nick, my friend, I loved your Profile..it's hard to believe that we first met over 1 1/2 yrs ago at BradInBlue's home....I think I love you and Rob more now. ;D :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
:-*
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Loved reading your profile Nick! Big hugs to you and Rob from Chuck and me. ;D
Also great to see that lovely entry by dejavu. I fondly remember the hours Debbie, Chuck and I discussed the wonders of Brokeback Mountain amongst all our new friends at Estes Park.
Can't wait till we all can get together again. ;D
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Been remiss in posting here, just wanted to say I loved the recent profiles of Vic, Milo, MichaelFlanagan, and Nick!
Always great to read the profiles!
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To atruant (our posts got separated):
Nice to see you here, John, and thanks. Hope we meet again soon.
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Comment on Bobby's interview; I heard him speak it, and was deeply touched. To see it in writing is a great thrill, for having been allowed to witness his journey from nearby.....He is totally classy in how he is handling the 'backlash' as well. I praise him for his courage and clear will. I think he has already helped many people, just by speaking out...
Comment on Phil:
Damn, I always liked him-now he goes and not only makes that dumb joke, but gets another shot in with his apology. To me, there is hate drumming underneath the surface. Bye-bye, Phil.
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Nick - a great profile - but you're even more charming in person! :-*
mf
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I just want to comment generally on how much I enjoy the profiles. This community now is more about the people and less about the movie that brought us together. As we form our circle of friends, it's always great to add another when you find something in common besides this great movie.
I would recommend to our editors to consider adding a PSA to TDS readers to use our link to Amazon as they start their holiday shopping for anything at all. Make a link in the PSA and add a semi-permanent link in the newsbox in the top corner. It's a great way to remind us all that we can help this website just by linking through here. (I am guilty of forgetting myself, doing a headslap after I've placed the order. My bad.)
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PSA? :D
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Public Service Announcement...I hope. ;)
And Betty, that is a terrific idea. :-*
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once again a cool profile.
but we have a cool TDS Sr Editor, why wouldn't it be cool....
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Thx Jack, true loyal friend, and thanks to all who read TDS.
The profiles are ALL the doing of Dawn, Stilllearning. ;) :)
and furthermore, if not for her help, TDS would be off the rails at the moment. :-*
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aaaaaaaaaah
then thank you DAWN!
but we still have a cool Sr TDS editor!
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Regarding the transgender Day of Remembrance, Cold Case last night had an episode called Boy Crazy which addressed a case that resulted in murder back in the 1960s. Very sad.
http://tinyurl.com/ytdv3o (Surely somewhere there is a better web site about this program. This was difficult to find and wasn't much there once you did find it!)
It will be interesting to see if any other TV programs address this issue this week.
- Lydia
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Congratulations to Jeanine and Shelly! ;D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi34.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd145%2Fcccccarol%2Fcelebs%2F23035136.jpg&hash=c177625aa21030233cc219ceb3fa5e901bbce50a)
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Forum members might want to know that if you go to Jeanine and Shelly's web site mentioned in the stsory there's a place to leave them your good wishes.
- Lydia
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I just checked out the "Enchanted" trailer; it looks GREAT. I really enjoyed Kelly's "Blast From the Past" years back. I don't know why it didn't do better at the box office; talented cast and creative story. Go figure. So count me in as one who will check out "Enchanted."
Dave, I don't know if you had any idea what you started here almost two years ago. All of us here are so grateful to you for giving us a place to process what happened to us when we saw "Brokeback Mountain." So allow me to express our thanks to you for your dedication and patience as you dealt with all the issues that owning this forum brings. You've built an entire community the size of a small city that continues to draw new residents. We are meeting and befriending our neighbors all around the world. What an amazing accomplishment.
So, Mayor Dave: thank you.
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I saw Enchanted tonght and it was fabulous! Everyone in the theater sat through the credits. A wonderful story--surprising, touching and Susan S. is a hoot! The whole cast is great. I think you're friend Bill is going to have a hit on his hands, Dave (I hope so, anyway.) The story is very clever, and imaginative, and most important, it has true energy, good acting, and great music. I walked out of the theater humming the main theme. I also thought, what a great stage play this would make in some form or fashion--the music was fabulous, as was the main dance routine. Loved it, as you guessed :D I stayed through the credits to see your friend Bill's name--congrats to him.
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thanks, neatfreak, that made me smile.
and great to hear those results, lauren.
boxofficemojo finally posted the wednesday results, about 11 hours later than normal, which was odd. i've been checking all day.
http://boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/?sortdate=2007-11-21&p=.htm
Enchanted did $8,150,000 on wednesday, which looked to be a bit better than boxofficeguru was projecting. and it will easily win the weekend: nearly double the #2 film, and that will go higher during the matinee days (family-oriented films do much more of their business on saturdays and sundays or holidays like thurs and fri, with lots of matinees.) nice.
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I don't understand, why put up an ad for the book in the first place if we shouldn't click on it?
Congtrats to Royandronnie!!! You lucky girl!!
Loved Hugsuzie's profile, a sculptress AND architect! WOW!
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Hi
Every ad click costs the forum 35 cents or more.
We are looking for clicks from people outside of the forum.
That's why the ads are NOT running here on the forum.
When you click on the ad it takes you to our book page, and forum members can get there for free.
I don't understand, why put up an ad for the book in the first place if we shouldn't click on it?
Congtrats to Royandronnie!!! You lucky girl!!
Loved Hugsuzie's profile, a sculptress AND architect! WOW!
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Wow, suzie had me going for a minute with "the way it SHOULD have been" ;D
And yes, double excitement about royandronnie's adventure into RL Jake encounter.
I hope you will bring The Daily Sheet some exclusive quotes! ;)
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Hi
Every ad click costs the forum 35 cents or more.
We are looking for clicks from people outside of the forum.
That's why the ads are NOT running here on the forum.
When you click on the ad it takes you to our book page, and forum members can get there for free.
Now I get it! It's for 'strangers' :)
Thanks!
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Was sorely tempted to bid on lunch with Jake, myself. Got all bashful thinking about it! Glad Charlotte jumped in there. Nobody but nobody can out-ride her when it comes to Brokeback. Jake will have some food for thought!
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The day I heard that Charlotte had won I received a check in the mail from the executor of my father's will that was for the exact amount that she bid for that lunch. For like 5 seconds I thought, damn! a week too late!
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I got a say this: some of us who knew she had won were waiting for a mass suicide when the news got out
lol
lol
lol
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I got a say this: some of us who knew she had won were waiting for a mass suicide when the news got out
I really don't understand why anyone from here would be more upset that a forum member won it rather than a total stranger. I mean, this is our chance to get answers to the questions that burned up the threads for a time, such as "did Ennis say 'I'm sorry' during the SNIT?" We should seize this opportunity and submit a list of questions for Charlotte to ask. :D
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chapeau.....lol.lol.lol
and Did Jack Quit Ennis??
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and Did Jack Quit Ennis??
No!
Well, that is one woman's opinion, anyway! ;) :D :D :D
Charlotte, you go, girl! Good for you! :-*
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Congratulations, Charlotte - and I think Jake is lucky to be having the chance of lunch with you :).
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hmmmmm.....But what WILL they name their child????
Bobby???
Hmmmmmm
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and Did Jack Quit Ennis??
No!
Well, that is one woman's opinion, anyway! ;) :D :D :D
Charlotte, you go, girl! Good for you! :-*
We needn't dig that old skeleton out of the closet. Anyways, of course he did!
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I was thinking about bidding too, but I knew the auction was probably going to be won by one of those obsessed "brokies" :D
Congratulations Charlotte.
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Naw... Jack didn't quit Ennis... he stepped out and returned with guilt.
The only thing that quit was Jack's life.
He lived on in Ennis's dreams.
Kisses, Nicky
Boo
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I agree with Rob and many others, Jack did not quit Ennis. ;)
Actually, I went to the thread "did Jack quit Ennis" (all 327 pages of discussion) to see if there is a poll, and there isn't!
However, if you would like to weigh in once more, please go to that thread. ;D
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=9841.4890
As this questions was not really posed in the Daily Sheet, it is (thank TPTB) off topic here. :)
(ETA -- hey I hope Rob and Nick's apparent disagreement on this topic is not too serious :-\ :-* )
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LOL!
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hmmmmm.....But what WILL they name their child????
Bobby???
Hmmmmmm
How about "Miracle"--seeing that that's about what my chances are of THAT!
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Who knows, he might like Chanel.
Besides, it's killing them as it is...Little Bobby would just be icing on the cake.
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Another great profile! Thanks Susie!
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Folks, I was reading Towleroad this morning, and they had this piece from dlisted. It's about Heath from the new Batman movie:
http://dlisted.com/node/18836
Jeremiah
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Hi, Ellen and Dawn! I have an item for the Calendar of Events that I would appreciate if you would add! It is the Third Annual Brokeback BBQ: Wyoming Roundup, scheduled for June 1-7, 2008, in Wyoming. Thank you! Best regards, Front-Ranger (Lee)
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Seems to me today's profile is a very special one. Very thoughtful and interesting and non-cliché. AND I can't believe Lauren's been here since the very beginning and I don't know her. My loss. :-\
I also loved the mistake John found on the Academy web site. :D :D :D
- KH
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Great profile on TDS, Lauren!! :-*
I love your answers to the questions "Your favorite BBM scene?" and "What was your take-away message from BBM? What affected you the most?"...
Also, excellent interview with Heath on the Chicago Sun Times :)
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Seems to me today's profile is a very special one. Very thoughtful and interesting and non-cliché. AND I can't believe Lauren's been here since the very beginning and I don't know her. My loss. :-\
I also loved the mistake John found on the Academy web site. :D :D :D
- KH
Thank you very much, kittyhawk! It was fun to do. I love this place, and can't ever stay away for long--I seem to post in spurts (my total count should be about 2 or 3,000, counting dave's old message board :D There are some threads I rarely visit, and folks I don't know there--the board is so big.
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Great profile on TDS, Lauren!! :-*
I love your answers to the questions "Your favorite BBM scene?" and "What was your take-away message from BBM? What affected you the most?"...
Also, excellent interview with Heath on the Chicago Sun Times :)
Thank you freetraveller! I adore the DE scene (and that last scene). I'll have to read that interview with Heath in the Times.
And, I did like that mistake on the Academy web site as well
Oh, and Jack did not quit Ennis :-* :-*
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What a lovely profile Lauren. Great to see your many talents brought to a wider audience!
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Thank you, J. :-* :-*
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R.I.P.: Marit Allen, Brokeback Mountain costume designer.
I don't know if anyone else has taken note of the fact that she passed away on Saturday.
Here's an obituary:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,,2220010,00.html
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So sorry to hear about Ms. Allen's passing.
We have much to be thankful for her existence.
Rob
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So sorry to hear about Ms. Allen's passing.
We have much to be thankful for her existence.
Rob
Oh, that's sad. I just saw "La Vie en Rose" last night
and saw that she did the costumes for that film and
wondered about her chances for some recognition there...
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Hi -- there is a new thread to discuss Marit Allen
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=27924.0
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Folks, the current issue of Entertainment Weekly has a cover article called, "The 50 Smartest People in Hollywood". Gustavo Santaolalla is listed at #48 for his scores for BBM and Babel:
http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20163012_2,00.html
Jeremiah
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Below is a post from Logo via AfterElton. The title is, Homophobia Might Have Cost BBM Best Picture":
http://www.newnownext.com/2007/12/ang-lee-homopho.html
Jeremiah
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Just a quick, but deeply felt expression of gratitude, Dawn, for what is possibly the most wonderful review I've ever received for anything I've written. I'm touched - and virtually speechless.
Thank you so much.
CYN
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Really loving the weekly pieces on the deleted scenes. I especially liked this from today's article:
As Ennis spots a brightly painted VW van, he says to Jack, “If it’s a hippie, we ought to scalp him,” eerily echoing his father’s celebration of Earl’s mutilation some 20 years earlier. Such are Ennis’ delusion and self-loathing that the parallel completely escapes him.
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Really loving the weekly pieces on the deleted scenes. I especially liked this from today's article:
As Ennis spots a brightly painted VW van, he says to Jack, “If it’s a hippie, we ought to scalp him,” eerily echoing his father’s celebration of Earl’s mutilation some 20 years earlier. Such are Ennis’ delusion and self-loathing that the parallel completely escapes him.
IMO that inclusion would have seriously damaged the quality of the movie. We already know at the end what terrible consequences that Ennis' inability to overcome his internalized homophobia has had. For him to have suggested that he'd be willing to participate in a gay bashing would be overdoing it, to put it mildly.
Unless, of course, Ennis had tickets to a Grateful Dead concert and was suggesting making a hefty profit from them. But I doubt it. >:D
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IMO that inclusion would have seriously damaged the quality of the movie. We already know at the end what terrible consequences that Ennis' inability to overcome his internalized homophobia has had. For him to have suggested that he'd be willing to participate in a gay bashing would be overdoing it, to put it mildly.
Unless, of course, Ennis had tickets to a Grateful Dead concert and was suggesting making a hefty profit from them. But I doubt it. >:D
Oh, I didn't even think of Ennis' statement as homophobic (related to gay bashing), I thought of it as an off-the-cuff closed minded statement(like "those damn weird hippies"), that showed the same kind of judgemental thinking that has ultimately kept him and Jack apart. Not that I thought the scene should have been included, it seems clear that everyone thought it was out of syn with the rest of the film, but I did see that line as perpetuating a kind of thinking that has blinders on.
Has there ever been a film where lines, including those cut from the film :D, have allowed for such rich discussion?
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I love knowing about the deleted scenes but I agree with most who have posted that Ang Lee had pretty good instinct when it came to taking out what needed to be out.
IMO this scene (hippies) would have introduced the outside world into their "way the hell in the middle of nowhere" business, which we are better off thinking of as their special time rather than dealing with others, or judging others. And the fact of them being hippies specifically introduces something the movie isn't really about -- admission and acceptance of change.
It would seem to destroy the fabric of the setting, Ennis' Wyoming is Ennis' Wyoming. He may smoke a joint with Jack, which is enough to remind us how much the world has changed, but the relationship has not.
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Absolutely, and also, with Ennis being so paranoid, it would not seem so plausible that he carries on seeing Jack in the middle of nowhere when there is a risk of stumbling upon other people. The whole point, as you say, was that their trips had to be totally away from humankind for Ennis to feel safe.
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I just wanted to say how interesting I find the whole story of Bobby - the excerpt that was in TDS, what a brave man and challenging journey. And how wonderful it is that his story has gotten wider coverage - wow.
Also - Ellen, really liked the title: "Look What Bobby Started" - look what he started indeed! He'll probably never know how much comfort and inspration his story will bring to some people.
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Liked daannzz's profile today very much.
This profile series is great anyway, from the start! I always look forward to it!
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Daannzzz, loved your post! Finally someone who gets a part of me. Although I sing in a couple Choirs, and like Music, I cannot stand having it on in the house, and I don't buy many 'toys' either, I'd rather travel.......
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I can edit TDS if you want. I am a professional writer (20 years).
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miral I will PM, thanks
Ellen
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Ellen, very good assessment regarding why the hippie scenes were deleted; They are unnecessary and irrelvant to the story.
The love between J & E is obviously not bounded by social norms, even though it is hidden; so there is no reason to kind of spoil it's purity by introducing outside interference.
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Oh, I didn't even think of Ennis' statement as homophobic (related to gay bashing), I thought of it as an off-the-cuff closed minded statement(like "those damn weird hippies"), that showed the same kind of judgemental thinking that has ultimately kept him and Jack apart. Not that I thought the scene should have been included, it seems clear that everyone thought it was out of syn with the rest of the film, but I did see that line as perpetuating a kind of thinking that has blinders on.
Sorry, after re-reading the post I realized it didn't make any sense. But the line did suggest that Ennis' reaction to these people was to consider violence, and we already see enough of that in the movie. His acting physically aggressive to people who might be scatterbrained and annoying but aren't any threat to him would be overdoing it.
I'd love to look at any unused footage from the movie including even outtakes; but if that scene had been in the movie, the blatant stereotyping would have annoyed me no end.
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http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/dec/071211a.html
I'm a bit puzzled that this is being promoted as a positive view. I'd go further than saying it's not pro-gay - I think it's quite anti-gay:
As the Catholic Church makes a distinction between homosexual orientation and activity, Ennis and Jack's continuing physical relationship is morally problematic......
....While the actions taken by Ennis and Jack cannot be endorsed, the universal themes of love and loss ring true.
The film contains tacit approval of same-sex relationships....
It's clearly homophobic, I think. I'm not objecting to it being posted - I think it's interesting to read different views. I'm just surprised that it's seen as positive and not homophobic, even considering the Catholic background. It's basically saying that homosexual relationships are wrong and that Jack and Ennis should not have had that relationship, but that the film appeals because of the other themes.
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Desecra, I found it remarkable. The reviewer is speaking to his "audience" there, and he cannot come out and say "hey folks, if you see this movie it will change your mind about homophobia and homosexuality." Because then they would not see it. He is saying, although we are Catholic and we have a pre-conceived viewpoint (based on the Bible or the Pope or both) this movie is worth seeing, and it treats the subject with humanity rather than what you might imagine as a homosexual agenda.
I saw BBM with my ultra-Catholic cousin who came out of it very confused. She was trying to think how she should feel, based on Catholic teachings (the guys would have been better off concentrating on their marriages) but it was clear she did have some compassion for them. She ended up saying "It's a 'thinking' movie." and for that I was proud of her. So if this reviewer could influence any Catholic to see the movie based on compassion or even curiosity by warning them what to expect (or what not to expect) that is his job for that specific audience.
Somewhere (and now I can't find it) Bay City John posted that this reviewer was fired for these so-called "positive" reviews of BBM and also The Golden Compass. But I'm not quite sure if that is true because I can't find the link. ::)
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I didn't really get that from the review - I think many Catholics would find the opinions I put in my post above offensive too. The reviewer doesn't seem to be saying that the viewers will change their minds about sexuality - the way I'm reading it, he's saying that it's a moving film with universal themes and that we'll have sympathy for the characters. Fair enough, but then he goes on to say that sexual relationships between men can't be endorsed. In other words, men who have sex with men are morally wrong, but we can still feel some empathy for them. I don't see the need to make that judgement. The readers (no matter how Catholic or homophobic) are going to have their own opinions on that subject anyway.
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You are right, the reviewer is a Catholic and he is upholding those beliefs, and even he is not saying that he changed his mind about these things overnight.
He is saying, however, that people should have an open mind toward seeing the movie, and he recommends it, despite not agreeing with the themes.
I do understand that, from our end of the spectrum, you can point to elements of homophobia, but from a conservative Catholic viewpoint, he would be remiss if he didn't point out that homosexuality (condemned by the church) was the theme of the movie; but they should see it anyway.
Also, because I was raised as a Catholic, I tend to take these things as "the devil I know." There is a lot of "don't ask, don't tell in the Catholic Church -- and I'm not talking about homosexuality. Most use birth control, for example, but nobody challenges each other on it. I am not saying it's great, and I don't attend Catholic church any more, but I understand where they are coming from and I think it's great the reviewer recommended the movie.
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I really enjoyed the thoroughly embarassing hippie episode that thankfully got deleted from BBM-I seem to recall Heath saying they basically laughed their way thru it, when they weren't cringing.
Sean Penn as Harvey Milk! He'll be awesome......
Loved the nature pics, especially the icicles on the holly berries-I may see how that looks as my desktop background!
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Somewhere (and now I can't find it) Bay City John posted that this reviewer was fired for these so-called "positive" reviews of BBM and also The Golden Compass. But I'm not quite sure if that is true because I can't find the link. ::)
Fr. Euteneuer asks Bishops to Fire Scandalous Movie Reviewer
FRONT ROYAL, Va., Dec. 12 /Christian Newswire/ -- The Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuer, STL, president of Human Life International, (HLI) today called on the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) to fire Harry Forbes, director of the Office for Film and Broadcasting of the Conference, for his positive reviews of immoral or anti-Catholic films on the Conference's Catholic News Service (CNS).
Father Euteneuer said, "I refuse to believe that Harry Forbes, who gave such glowing remarks to the homosexual promo film Brokeback Mountain and the atheist indoctrination flick The Golden Compass, speaks in the name of our bishops. An employee who shames our bishops with reviews of this sort should be fired. He now has a track record and is not worthy to be a public spokesperson for any Catholic let alone the national conference of bishops. I urgently ask the bishops to correct this anomaly at the headquarters and restore the dignity of the conference, which has been sullied by this man.
http://www.earnedmedia.org/hli1212.htm (http://www.earnedmedia.org/hli1212.htm)
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What a rotten person that guy is - to say nothing of him being a priest. Hell is too good for him. And his ilk are destroying the Catholic Church. Neo-fascist.
Yea, I guess that posting really got me started.
Sixteen years of Catholic education (for me, that is) - and this is what is left of "Holy Mother Church!"
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Brothers
If that guy standing next to Toby McGuire is Jake Gyllenhaal, I'm long overdue for new glasses!
Adrian?
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Er, yes. I was going to say. Both pictures are of Tobey, though they do certainly resemble each other strongly--enough so that Jake was considered to replace Tobey in Spiderman for movie two when Tobey wanted a lot more money. Remember that?
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Great profile of Trekfan! Thanks for including it!
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I have hesitated to complain when so many people are doing such wonderful work but why, as the number of daily sheets per week goes down, does the length of time for each page increase? It is now the whole month.
I have broadband but it is not very fast in this country and once I download 1 Gb in a month I go down to dial-up speed. This is happening earlier each month. Today, with a whole month of daily sheets downloading, it took forever to arrive. I would appreciate a new page every two weeks as before.
Happy New Year.
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I have hesitated to complain when so many people are doing such wonderful work but why, as the number of daily sheets per week goes down, does the length of time for each page increase? It is now the whole month.
I have broadband but it is not very fast in this country and once I download 1 Gb in a month I go down to dial-up speed. This is happening earlier each month. Today, with a whole month of daily sheets downloading, it took forever to arrive. I would appreciate a new page every two weeks as before.
Happy New Year.
Brianr - Thanks for letting us know how the current schedule makes it harder to download TDS, I think that we can certainly make that adjustment and go back to every 2 weeks. I'm not the person that makes those decisions actually :D, but I don't think it will be a problem, and will pass on your request to the TDS team.
Thanks,
Dawn
ETA: We'd be happy to make that change, thanks for bringing it to our attention!
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Great to see the profile of Brokeback_1 - who has appeared on this forum as a smart guy, a good guy, a guy with lots to say that's worth a listen - one of the people who have made this forum an inspiring place to return to even after the ''Brokeback Fever" was over.
One more thing, would someone please post something on "How Has the DC Forum Affected You" thread so that it's not my post that shows up as the last one? It's embarrassing me - I know there are lots of folks with interesting stuff to say, though lots of you have posted your comments already.
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QH!
You said some really lovely things, and I want to say thank you.
It sure took me long enough to write it, I first was asked for a profile in 2006.
That picture is a cool one and seeing it surprised me. I even remember what we were talking about when it was taken. Annie was telling me how upset she was. Every time she posted on her website she was personally harassed by a bunch of really crazy religious fundamentalists. She could no longer handle it, and had decided to drop her online involvement.
She's a nice, nice lady
and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!
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Hey Jack! Lovely profile. You really gave a lot of yourself.
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Annie was telling me how upset she was. Every time she posted on her website she was personally harassed by a bunch of really crazy religious fundamentalists. She could no longer handle it, and had decided to drop her online involvement.
She's a nice, nice lady
The harrassment you speak of is really too bad. Maybe there's a New Year's resolution in this. I think it's so important not to let it get to us - or to anyone. In my experience, it's just a few people, and, like terrorists,they succeed when they intimidate us and make us think they represent a greater view. The distortion of perspective recently came home to me in a couple of RL conversations I've had - a couple of times people I thought would be opposed to my push for GLBT affirmation at my church raised the issue with me, I got nervous and mentally prepared to defend myself against an attack, and what actually took place was them giving me support, wishing me luck, and saying they just wish others (husbands, frineds) would see things differently.
At any rate, we keep on keepin' on. And it's definitely easier knowing there are folks like you out there, Brokeback_1. As Ministering angel says, you give a lot of yourself, even if it takes you a while to get to it! (I see a pattern here!)
While I'm here, I'll say thanks to the Daily Sheet folks, and wish all good things in 2008.
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There were reasons for her to be alarmed QH.
I would really like to thank everyone for their kind comments. What I sent in was really long and Ellen did a wonderful job. I was just too crazy over my aunt, age 87, breaking bones in her back>>>which is what it turns out she actually DID It was impossible to concentrate... Yet Tellyouwhat did her usual superb job in cutting away the fat. Still Learning too, apparently doesn't have much left to learn! The issues you do have a great deal of grace, Dawn.
Thanks!
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There were reasons for her to be alarmed QH.
I don't doubt that. I certainly don't want to sound like I'm suggesting Annie Proulx is not a courageous person, I'm merely trying to buck all of us up in the face of harassment and intimidation - and mostly me, the biggest coward of all, and I haven't even been subjected to the kind of harassment and intimidation many of the forum's posters have experienced.
I'll admit something rather superstitious that I do. There's a Canadian quarter that was issued in 2006 - the Brokeback year - that says "bravery/bravoure" on it to commemorate a Canadian medal of bravery. I keep one of those quarters with me all the time as a reminder of the bravery of everyone associated with BBM, not to mention all the stories of personal bravery we read on this forum, which have been humbling and inspiring.
Here's more about the quarter:
http://www.mint.ca/royalcanadianmintpublic/index.aspx?RequestedPath=/en-ca/thestore/shopping/circulationcurrency/coinrolls/9943236.htm
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QH...
Trade ya a quarter for a quarter!!!
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Between the excellent profile of Brokeback_1 on Saturday and Bobbyin1963's 2005 Christmas letter today,TDS continues to raise the bar and remains the Must Read that it's been since it began. (Nevermind that -- because of this two-year anniversary -- my tear ducts were already working overtime.)
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I'm dyin right now at this hotel in NYC:
FART JOKES
In Brokeback. As in Real Brokebackian Fart Jokes by Jack Twist
I brought the laptop down to the desk and showed Schamus's Fart Jokes in TDS to the night clerk, who is also dyin at this hotel in NYC.
Thank You Ang!!!!!
fart jokes.
oh
my
gawd
roflmao
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I'm dyin right now at this hotel in NYC:
FART JOKES
In Brokeback. As in Real Brokebackian Fart Jokes by Jack Twist
I brought the laptop down to the desk and showed Schamus's Fart Jokes in TDS to the night clerk, who is also dyin at this hotel in NYC.
Thank You Ang!!!!!
fart jokes.
oh
my
gawd
roflmao
...and you're not sharing?
Dangy!
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Rob, I very much fear Jack is referring to the unfortunate bit of dialogue in TDS' deleted scenes article. :(
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Rob, I very much fear Jack is referring to the unfortunate bit of dialogue in TDS' deleted scenes article. :(
Oh... duh!
Glad it was deleted too!
(Though nothing's wrong with a good fart now and again, eh?)
;)
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You very much fear raght!
How Schamus could even have considered having Jack make fartjokes at the lake is beyond me, the whole concept is so ludicrous it had me on the floor.
Thank God for Ang Lee, and scissors!
Although I will be the first to admit, with all those beans....
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You very much fear raght!
Thank God for Ang Lee, and scissors!
Although I will be the first to admit, with all those beans....
Maybe that's what set off them coyote yips? Or ran them sheep off? Ennis warned Jack to quiet down. Maybe it weren't just the harmonica!
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You know, I always thought it was a tribute to Ang Lee's genius that I watched the whole movie, major discussion of beans included, and did not untiil months later even think about Blazing Saddles.
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Loved reading Fritz's profile today! Keep the profile series coming - it's always a fascinating read.
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Danke sehr, Ingelengeleinchen!
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CONGRATS TO THE THREE BROKIE BABYS ! ! !
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr308%2FNewport_Beach_Girl%2FJake%2520G%2FFilms%2FBBM%2F045c.jpg&hash=65de60b68bf073c11f461fd3637bedd0f28e9ac7)
Congrats to Carbyville, Drifting_Elfie, and Lfnanna on being part of the great TDS Brokie Baby feature!
Wow, I knew about Lfnanna, but I had no idea that two more Brokie babies were about to make their debut.
Since we can't blame it on the drinking water, I'm guessing there must be something in the Forum pixels. ::) ;)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr308%2FNewport_Beach_Girl%2FHolidays%2FBaby%2520Girl%2F002.gif&hash=0ce2a4abade44b546429e05d95fe50efbeb72f7a)
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Probably nobody knows me here but never mind.
I want to congratulate from my heart Brokeback1 and fritzkep for their profiles. They are both great and Jack’s mainly (whom I know slightly from other threads) moved me very much. Ingmar is right. The DCF members’ profiles are always very interesting.
Also I warmly wish to our three moms the New Year to give them along with their babies, joy and happiness.
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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:) :-* Also from me all the best for the 3 Brokie moms! :-* :)
LOL, on Lashes we are always joking when little Lfnanna will be introduced to jaking... So when will the kids of Carbyville and Drifting~Elfie learn about slash? ;D
Heehee, I just remembered, that I have a baby pic in my PB... ;D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi128.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp163%2Fuligylly%2FDiverses%2Fbunnybaby.jpg&hash=0d05a631094ad11f354db0fdb48d42334b159667)
Oh, and thanks to TDS for the cute idea to post about the 3 to-be-moms :)
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Thanks, everyone. Means a lot! :-*
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Lovely news about the babies - congratulations to all those involved! I wish you all happy and comfortable pregnancies.
(And very very cute baby pic, Uli).
May there always be a public convenience available when you need one!
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;D We love our Fritzl !! Thanks for sharin' your story with us Fritz!!
And congratulations to all the new Brokie moms-and-families-to-be!! :-*
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(And very very cute baby pic, Uli).
Thanks, I have no idea who it is, though... :D
I found it on the internet - can't remember why I posted it the first time... ::) :D
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Thanks, Widge! (I haven't forgotten about your PM, it's just taking me a while to get settled after the holidays!)
And congrats to all the mammas-to-be!
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Folks, below is a link to an article about Comanche Moon, the miniseries by Osana and McMurtry , and prequel to Lonesome Dove:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20168877,00.html
And here's a link to the trailer for The Dark Knight, featuring Heath Ledger. Short review, comments by readers of Entertainment Weekly and the actual trailer:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20168877,00.html
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Thank you, thank you, TDS folks!
Still read it 1st thing when it comes out....looking forward to continuing that in 2008.
Happy New Year to you hard workers!
Great profiles of late. Jack & Fritz!!! Thank you for sharing more of your interesting selves w/ us.
Loved Chuck's Brokie-Baby story, too. And Bubo's perfect BBM-baby pic.
All best wishes to the moms & families! God bless.
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Folks, below is a link to an article about Comanche Moon, the miniseries by Osana and McMurtry , and prequel to Lonesome Dove:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20168877,00.html
And here's a link to the trailer for The Dark Knight, featuring Heath Ledger. Short review, comments by readers of Entertainment Weekly and the actual trailer:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20168877,00.html
Hi, Jer009-I think the same link is posted twice. There are other links also to The Dark Knight in the thread by that name, under the fan threads. There is a really good high-res link on page 25 by Jannis..just click on the green 'here'. Its awesome!
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CANSTANDIT--
Yeah, my boyfriend pointed that out to me, too. Sorry about that! I was trying to send the Comanche Moon and Dark Knight links to both TDS and my boyfriend, and must've mixed them up.(That'll teach me to multi-task!)
I'll look up the link you gave me, thanks. The one I got through Google was in High Def--if that's the same one Jannis has, it's spectacular. It still amazes me that the same actor who completely melted into the role of a gay cowboy could be just as effective as The Joker. Ledger is creepy as hell...I'm sure looking forward to the movie. Not just for Ledger, but for Bale and Maggie, too.
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There is confusion here
"Prince Albert Victor (Eddy) was in line for the throne, but his early death resulted in the succession passing to his younger brother Edward the VIII."
The succession passed to King George V whose son Edward VIII reigned only for a short time before abdicating in favour of his brother George VI
So Edward VIII was nephew of Albert Victor.
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Oh dear! That was a typo and a half wasn't it. I of course knew that perfectly well, but it isn't what I wrote was it. A case of thinking one thing and typing another. Sorry!
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Thanks for using my post in "post of the day"
It's nice to know that some of the nonsense that I write makes some sense.
I think
LOL!
jeeez, I need less sugar.....
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CANSTANDIT--
Yeah, my boyfriend pointed that out to me, too. Sorry about that! I was trying to send the Comanche Moon and Dark Knight links to both TDS and my boyfriend, and must've mixed them up.(That'll teach me to multi-task!)
I'll look up the link you gave me, thanks. The one I got through Google was in High Def--if that's the same one Jannis has, it's spectacular. It still amazes me that the same actor who completely melted into the role of a gay cowboy could be just as effective as The Joker. Ledger is creepy as hell...I'm sure looking forward to the movie. Not just for Ledger, but for Bale and Maggie, too.
Oh, me too...this is a cast that will rock, no question. I look forward to Comanche Moon, if I can get the chance to watch all of it-its doubtful! It's spread out over 3 nights, I believe.
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Congrats, Bobby, on the Daily Sheet Profile-you've been thru so much and still manage to laugh.....
And thanks for starting up the BBB Diet thread; its been wonderful, friend....
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Bobby - just let me say what an inspiration you are!!!!
As one of those hopefully nonjudgemental and mature (=wrinkly ;D) women, yours is the story which can bring tears to my eyes.
More power to your elbow, people like you really can change the world for the better. But I think you know that.
love and hugs
:-*
Chris
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Thank you for using our photo here, the poem so sad, yet beautiful...
Rob
:-*
FanFiction ~ Slash Poetry
Recommended by Stilllearning
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i216/ellenclaire_photos/tdsforjack.jpg
From Jack, For Jack
By Cynical21
The voice that challenged silence
Has now gone dark and still;
I didn’t have time to tell you –
And now I never will;
To show you how you filled my life
With hope and light and laughter,
With new respite from broken dreams,
And morning smiles thereafter.
Sweet slumber undisturbed by fears,
Held fast and anchored in your heart
Where malice never entered,
Where darkness held no part.
I see you gripped in mourning,
In bouts of silent tears –
And ache to speak, to tell you
How much they meant – those years
When you stood close and held me,
In arms so true and strong,
And set my life to music,
My heart, my soul, my song.
FINI
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Oh, I'm glad you didn't mind, I was franticallly looking for a good one, and I saw your sig line, where I stole it! :-*
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Oh, I'm glad you didn't mind, I was franticallly looking for a good one, and I saw your sig line, where I stole it! :-*
Steal away!!!
:)
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Where? Who? What? When?
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Hey, thanks again to the TDS team for continuing to produce a very nice sheet!
I just wanted to say that I loved the piece on Panic at the Disco (yeah, yeah, in my heart I'm a 15-year-old fan girl!) But in all seriousness, how they are among a growing set of young bands/performers/you have it to whom it really makes no difference whether they are thought of as gay or straight.
This is fantastic news!
Monica
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Marcia's chicken ranch must be the envy of the local sheep. Great to see her profile. Also sending up a prayer of thanks for Ellen's great work with TDS.
Hope their husbands have been "dancing" with them on this!
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Great profile about Bobby -- he deserves kudos from the whole forum for that piece that ran in the East Valley Tribune.
And I can't imagine both stopping smoking and losing weight! :o
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I just wanted to let you know that I really loved Marge_Innavera's profile in TDS today. Especially:
being able to honestly give, what is uniquely yours to give, is the foundation of a good life. And that everyone loses when we let ourselves believe that we can make exceptions to that.
What a wonderful thing to say - it really struck a cord with me and I'm going to quote it in my sig line!
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Also, I love the bucket list idea... I'm going to give that some thought and hopefully post here later.
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oh, you guys did it again -- thanks for such a nice goodbye as TDS editor.
As I responded to Dave's nice message -- sometimes when somebody says they are stepping down from a situation due to "personal reasons" it sounds so great -- although whenever I have had to do it, it's been a really tough decision.
My first week writing TDS, the taskmaster (not Dave) was thrilled just to see I could put two sentences together. ;D
I remember when I was even thinking of volunteering to do it, I asked myself a million times, can I make the time for this? Is it worth it?
I decided to go for it, and I am really proud of what it has turned into. It has even fulfilled my goal of building my resume. Amazing.
Thank to all of you who read TDS, and thanks to the absolutely golden team who are still working on TDS. And to Dave, Meli, and KittyHawk who keep this place alive for us all.
Love
Ellen
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On another note -- I loved Marcia's profile. I've been waitin' for that one :D
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Thank you, Ellen, for all your work!
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aw -- and remember the other editors we have had
CactusGal
Elle_ann
Kmich
Marge_Innavera (profile girl)
and --
Stilllearning. :-*
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Good Luck to you Ellen, and thank you all of you!
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Thank all o' y'all!
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Job well done, Ellen. Very well. :-*
<tips hat>
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi93.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl59%2Fcastlehills%2FIMG_0201.jpg%3Ft%3D1200862294&hash=72450c33fc1b0dfbaa15a0d64457bf01feb32f97)
Laredo, TX -- January 2008
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Love the picture Cabin, thanks for posting it!
There really are shades of Brokeback everywhere (a phrase that gnash used, and I borrowed for TDS, and just realized I didn't give credit :().
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On my "bucket list" - I like to ride a motorcycle, there's something about that that seems so "free." I'd also like to learn to ride horseback and play the piano. And maybe - sit in an outdoor cafe in France or Italy, and nearby, cobblestone streets and markets that sell fresh bread and vegetables.
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Does anyone have a link to the fanfic that Marge Innavera mentions, including her own?
Thanks
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Does anyone have a link to the fanfic that Marge Innavera mentions, including her own?
Thanks
Give me just a minute and I'll get them for you.
ETA: Here's the link to Marge_Innavera's Gift of the Nile (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=4664.msg302273#msg302273)
Sorry couldn't find the onces she referenced.
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Thanks!
Is there a way to find the other ones?
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Thanks!
Is there a way to find the other ones?
On Marcia's profile, if you click on her name, it will link you to where you can PM her. I know she'd be happy to give you the info.
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Ellen, I'll miss you. Your enthusiasm and integrity shone through everything you were involved in. Thank you so much. :-*
Janie
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Aw thanks Janie. :-* I love your drawings and your post of the day was right on (two years, damn!)
What a surprise to see my pic again (thanks, picture god, for choosing among my favorites) :P
Thanks again to the lovely TDS team, your personal words have meant so much to me.
But heck, I'm still here. Y'all are waving goodbye so hard I feel embarrassed for not going anywhere. ;D ;D
************
I have managed to post some very inadequate words in the thread for "Jackie's friends." Our forum is a community in vigil for her right now.
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Heath Ledger found dead:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/actor-heath-ledger-is-found-dead/index.html?hp
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What a terrible time for our beloved forum. It is just headline news on our 9am news bulletins here in his home country Australia
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Please take comments on our poor, dear Heath to the new thread. See the News Box for the link.
Thanks,
- KittyHawk
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Thank you to the DS Editors, Mods and contributors for today's Daily Sheet.
It was a beautiful summation of the past few terrible days.
In better times I am so grateful that this Forum is still a vibrant gathering place - two years into "this thing",
but this week and today - even more so. The sense of connection runs strong.
Best wishes, Friends.
Jay
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I am crying now, had avoided the tears for the whole morning. Thank you DS Editors and Mods for that wonderful tribute to Heath.........
Thank you all, and thank you Dave for this place.........
Sue
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Beautiful tribute editions today. :'(
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Beautiful, respectful, moving editions today.
May I suggest that tomorrow's tribute to Jackie be on a separate link from this one? I have a high-speed connection and a pretty good computer, but I have yet to be able to see all the pictures on today's edition. With all the hits that are bound to happen for tomorrow's edition, perhaps a separate link is called for. FWIW.
Thank you to all involved in assembling this wonderful page.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davecullen.com%2Fbrokeback%2Fdaily%2Fbanners%2Ftdsban.jpg&hash=9652d347a72cfe96056bab93e7ff8db169b66c40)
Saturday, January 26th, 2008
A Loving Tribute to Heath Ledger
Man Father Brother Son Lover Actor Friend
(...)
Thankyou so much for managing to put this moving tribute together! Something about the headline words describing all the things Heath was along with that lovely pic moved me especially.
Also fantastic to read the Alberta people BBM memories.
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Thank you for such a fine and tasteful Sheet.
You all are priceless!!
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Beautiful, respectful, moving editions today.
May I suggest that tomorrow's tribute to Jackie be on a separate link from this one? I have a high-speed connection and a pretty good computer, but I have yet to be able to see all the pictures on today's edition. With all the hits that are bound to happen for tomorrow's edition, perhaps a separate link is called for. FWIW.
Thank you to all involved in assembling this wonderful page.
We made adjustments that will hopefully take care of the problem. Thanks for letting us know.
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lovely job, well done, most sincere thanks, Chris x
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What a beautiful, beautiful issue of TDS today! My compliments to the editors!!
I co-publish a newsletter on BetterMost, so I know a little about what it's like. I applaud your dedication!
Front-Ranger Lee
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Today's Daily Sheet is a masterpiece. It is so nice to see the Heath we remember rather than the endless, mindless chatter we get from it seems every news source. My compliments on your efforts; this took a great deal of hard work in a short time.
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Compliments to the entire TDS staff for what must have seemed an impossible task.
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Thank you.
Reading Saily sheet was like hearing Jackie speak...
Winnie the Pooh, the greatest thinker of our times has said: "Promise me you'll never forget me because if I thought you would I'd never leave."
I promise.
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Thanks for Jackie's beautiful tribute today, and for Heath's just yesterday.
They are gone too soon.
Peace,
Jay
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Another beautiful Daily Sheet. What a lovely way to remember our dearest Jackie. Thank you.
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Two lovely memorials to two beautiful spirits.
I am honored that a photo of me with Jackie and Di was included in her memorial page.
Trish
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Stunning memorials to both Heath and Jackie. Well done!
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RE Saturday's DS:
I loved the collection of observations of Heath on the Brokeback set from FindingBrokeback. Sides of him that I'd never read or heard about. Great reading. Thanks!
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Beautiful tribute our Jackie, and I am so moved and humbled to have one of my posts for Jackie included, thank you all!
Jonn (Flyboy)
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Lovely Jackie tribute guys!
Thank You
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The tributes this weekend took my breath away. Thank you.
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My poem was in there and I am sooooooo grateful, because I just loved her so much and I am going to miss her so much!! :'(
I just don't even know what to say, I can't believe she is gone..........but as the poem says she isn't gone, not really! :-
* :-* :-*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miKZ0ncoeLw
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Thanks so much for all the kind words, folks. Stilllearning, gnash, whiplash, and denim girl deserve a standing ovation for creating three special editions for this weekend.
Probably the hardest part was selecting which posts to include since there were so many loving ones to choose from. I'm sure we left out some that would have been wonderful, but had to work within space limitations.
We won't have another regular edition of The Daily Sheet until next Saturday.
- KH
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Thank you so much for two masterful editions of TDS, for Heath and for Jackie: heart-warming, affectionate and tasteful.
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Thank you....... another beautiful tribute.
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Thank you, TDS Team, for the beautiful tribute to "Our Jackie".
You folks have really shown what 'grace under pressure' is all about this past week.
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A huge thank you to everyone who contributed to make the Variety ad possible, and to Jimmy, KittyHawk, Monica and Dave for getting it to happen so soon, and so well.
It is very touching.
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The TDS coverage of Heath and Jackie was fantastic. The Variety ad is perfect. Thank you all very much!
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Thanks again to the folks at TDS (for the tributes to Heath & Jackie) and everyone who worked on the Variety ad! You guys are the best!
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The TDS coverage of Heath and Jackie was fantastic. The Variety ad is perfect. Thank you all very much!
What he said - fantastic it was!! A great read - and emotionally overwhelming, once again...
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What a great idea to make the tribute TDS specials into .pdf:s Thanks (((BayCityJohn)))!
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Elvan, it's so good to see you back on the Forum. It's been a long time since we worked together on the book! Hope you're doing well.
KittyHawk
AKA Lydia
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I've seen the Feb 1st photocaps of the day several times already..but they caught me off guard, and brought tears to my eyes. Brilliant, Bob and Harry, just brillliant.
And to Mouk-thanks for giving us all the lovely tribute for Heath.
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One particular thing that jumped out at me, in the family's tribute to Heath:
You dreamed your dreams and lived them with passion and intelligent commitment.
In one of my favorite movies, a character who has seen most of her ambitions and dreams come to nothing is sitting at the deathbed of her best friend and mentor, and asks him if he thinks she had wasted her life. No she hadn't, the mentor answers, adding that
"Sometimes we were headstrong, but we lived our lives with passion and commitment."
Now I'll never watch that movie without thinking of Heath -- makes me a little misty but that's not a bad thing.
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Where do we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's," from, and what do "P" and "Q" stand for?
I did some research on that a little while ago -- can't remember why other than a passing fancy. From what I recall there is no clear source for this saying. There are several prominent theories:
In printsetting, when the type setter had to layout moveable type -- that was mirror images of course. So the p's and q's were easily reversed if you didn't take extra care.
Another was from pubs, where the common serving of beer were in pints and quarts. The barmaids were told to mind their p's and q's, thereby accurately tracking how many of each size they served.
Either way, it means pay attention to details.
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Well, here's what I found
http://ask.yahoo.com/20031127.html
Where did the saying "mind your Ps and Qs" come from?
Polly Quinn
Pierrefonds, Quebec
Dear Polly:
The Word of the Day site suggests this phrase has more possible origins than any other -- and nobody knows just what to believe. The only thing everyone can agree upon is that the idiom was first cited by the Oxford English Dictionary in 1779 with the meaning of watching your step and being polite.
One simple explanation is that it's a childish abbreviation for minding your "pleases" and "thank yous." Considering how often kids are told to "mind your Ps and Qs" with the goal of being more polite, this explanation makes sense.
Two popular theories revolve around the mirror-image quality of the two letters. The phrase was recorded in 1830 as meaning "to learn one's letters." It was aimed at children learning to hand-write the lowercase letters p and q, which are quite similar. Another explanation along the same lines comes from the world of printing. Typesetters used blocks of type that were mirror images of the letters, so it would be easy to mix up lowercase p and q. This origin would give "mind your Ps and Qs" a connotation of being careful and paying sharp attention.
Another oft-mentioned source of the phrase is old pubs where beer and ale was served in pints and quarts. The barkeeper tracked patrons' drinking totals by marking "P" for pints and "Q" for quarts. Both the barkeeper and the drinker would want to keep careful track of those Ps and Qs so they knew what the final bill would be. Also, the drinker might want to pay attention to how much he drank so as to keep his own behavior under control.
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Great issue, but I have to take very strong exception to the final sentence in "Speaking Up When It Counts", as it seemed to be pressuring readers to just shut up when it counts:
We can voice our thoughts about John Gibson's offensive remarks to Fox News or make our statement by giving our time and attention to a reputable newscaster.
I hope this wasn't a suggestion that people who take the time and effort to make it clear that the kind of contempt and disrespect Gibson showed isn't acceptable are either wasting their time or perpetuating the negative aspects of news coverage. Nor is "voicing yourr thoughts" and giving "time and attention to a reputable newscaster" an either/or choice. In any event, it isn't TDS' purview to dictate that to readers.
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Just wondering... is John Gibson still on the air?
I'm not one who listens to Fox...
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Great issue, but I have to take very strong exception to the final sentence in "Speaking Up When It Counts", as it seemed to be pressuring readers to just shut up when it counts:
We can voice our thoughts about John Gibson's offensive remarks to Fox News or make our statement by giving our time and attention to a reputable newscaster.
I hope this wasn't a suggestion that people who take the time and effort to make it clear that the kind of contempt and disrespect Gibson showed isn't acceptable are either wasting their time or perpetuating the negative aspects of news coverage. Nor is "voicing yourr thoughts" and giving "time and attention to a reputable newscaster" an either/or choice. In any event, it isn't TDS' purview to dictate that to readers.
Hi Marcia, after reading over your post, and the suggestion in TDS, I have come to the conclusion that I think we are all on the same side. (I am only answering as moderator here, not editor.) but it looked to me like a suggestion meant to raise awareness, not to limit or dictate the response of readers.
eta: Rob, I don't know if he's still on the air. I am one of those who looks the other way. :P
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Found this newsworthy link on jack's thread:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=1752.msg1177653#msg1177653
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Great issue, but I have to take very strong exception to the final sentence in "Speaking Up When It Counts", as it seemed to be pressuring readers to just shut up when it counts:
We can voice our thoughts about John Gibson's offensive remarks to Fox News or make our statement by giving our time and attention to a reputable newscaster.
I hope this wasn't a suggestion that people who take the time and effort to make it clear that the kind of contempt and disrespect Gibson showed isn't acceptable are either wasting their time or perpetuating the negative aspects of news coverage. Nor is "voicing yourr thoughts" and giving "time and attention to a reputable newscaster" an either/or choice. In any event, it isn't TDS' purview to dictate that to readers.
Hi – I’m sorry if the wording in the last line indicted to the reader that TDS (me) was dictating something to them, that was never the intent, and I apologize if it came off that way. The intent was to offer the idea that people could respond to the situation by commenting to Fox news or deciding not to watch that newscaster in the future. The words used were “people can” – and was truly just meant to present options for people to consider; it was never the intent to dictate to people what they should do.
And if the article gives the impression that those responding to the harsh comments about Heath, weren’t fully supported, then I missed the mark. Since I wrote the article, I’ll just speak for myself - I thoroughly applaud each and every person who responded. And if something in the article indicated that people shouldn’t have done so - that was absolutely not the intent or belief of myself or TDS team.
Although I had a clear grasp on what I wanted to convey in the article, it certainly doesn’t mean that I was successful in conveying that. So please know that it was not my intent or the intend of TDS to dictate to anyone that they should or shouldn’t do something, and I feel safe speaking for the TDS folks in saying that we fully support those who chose to respond to the newscaster’s harsh comments in defense of having respect for Heath. And again I’m sorry if the article gave the wrong impressions.
Thanks,
Dawn
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Thank you for today's TDS. I really enjoyed learning more about huntinbuddy, whose contributions to our forum are thoughtful and meaningful.
Thank you, too, for that link to Silent Witness. I've PMd them to ask about training (if they do it outside PA). This is something I can do easily and eagerly. Once again, this website has helped me to turn mournful feelings into meaningful action.
Oh yeah: I ordered the DVD "For The Bible Tells Me So." I've been waiting months for it to show in Indiana, and it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Not soon enough for me, anyway. Think maybe I can get my church to show it? We'll see.
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Great profile Charlie, from an Ennis to an Ennis, you are the braver one...... :) :)......nice pic too! Thanks, TDS crew!
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Hi – I’m sorry if the wording in the last line indicted to the reader that TDS (me) was dictating something to them, that was never the intent, and I apologize if it came off that way. The intent was to offer the idea that people could respond to the situation by commenting to Fox news or deciding not to watch that newscaster in the future. The words used were “people can” – and was truly just meant to present options for people to consider; it was never the intent to dictate to people what they should do.
And if the article gives the impression that those responding to the harsh comments about Heath, weren’t fully supported, then I missed the mark. Since I wrote the article, I’ll just speak for myself - I thoroughly applaud each and every person who responded. And if something in the article indicated that people shouldn’t have done so - that was absolutely not the intent or belief of myself or TDS team.
Although I had a clear grasp on what I wanted to convey in the article, it certainly doesn’t mean that I was successful in conveying that. So please know that it was not my intent or the intend of TDS to dictate to anyone that they should or shouldn’t do something, and I feel safe speaking for the TDS folks in saying that we fully support those who chose to respond to the newscaster’s harsh comments in defense of having respect for Heath. And again I’m sorry if the article gave the wrong impressions.
Thanks,
Dawn
I got the meaning you intended from your , Dawn - your meaning was clear to me.
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Where do we get the phrase "mind your P's and Q's," from, and what do "P" and "Q" stand for?
I did some research on that a little while ago -- can't remember why other than a passing fancy. From what I recall there is no clear source for this saying. There are several prominent theories:
In printsetting, when the type setter had to layout moveable type -- that was mirror images of course. So the p's and q's were easily reversed if you didn't take extra care.
Another was from pubs, where the common serving of beer were in pints and quarts. The barmaids were told to mind their p's and q's, thereby accurately tracking how many of each size they served.
Either way, it means pay attention to details.
[/quote
Lower-case b's and d's are also mirror images that can be confused by some early learners and would also probably have to be the subject of caution for typesetters in the past.
On the origin of phrases, there was one that kept discussion going for many weeks in a daily newspaper some years back - "it's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey".
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Having just been corrected on this myself, I'd like to point out that Mitt Romney has merely suspended his presidential campaign. I'm not sure EXACTLY what that means but there it is.
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Having just been corrected on this myself, I'd like to point out that Mitt Romney has merely suspended his presidential campaign. I'm not sure EXACTLY what that means but there it is.
Thanks, its been changed it the reflect that distinction.
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Thank you for today's TDS. I really enjoyed learning more about huntinbuddy, whose contributions to our forum are thoughtful and meaningful.
Thank you, too, for that link to Silent Witness. I've PMd them to ask about training (if they do it outside PA). This is something I can do easily and eagerly. Once again, this website has helped me to turn mournful feelings into meaningful action.
Oh yeah: I ordered the DVD "For The Bible Tells Me So." I've been waiting months for it to show in Indiana, and it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Not soon enough for me, anyway. Think maybe I can get my church to show it? We'll see.
Yes, I enjoyed the info on Silent Witness, and how they intervene.
And the best part of gathering member profiles, truly, is the wonderful people it brings us in contact with, often paths that haven't crossed before, it's a pleasure.
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Having just been corrected on this myself, I'd like to point out that Mitt Romney has merely suspended his presidential campaign. I'm not sure EXACTLY what that means but there it is.
John Edwards also "suspended" his campaign - I think by doing so they maintain their delegates and can theoretically keep their options open.
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Perhaps both are considering the vice presidency and think they could use the delegates they've won as a bargaining chip.
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Folks,
I didn't know where to post this, so someone at TDS can decide. I copied the article rather than posting a link because, in the article, it doesn't mention Quaid's BBM lawsuit. I found this at Toweleroad , originally found at The Huffington Post ,and I hope the link to the original article remains intact:
____________________________________________________________________________
- Actor Randy Quaid has been banned for life from the Actors Union for his behavior during the Chicago production of the Broadway-bound musical Lone Star Love. Quaid is said to have struck another actor on four occasions while on stage, and told another actor not to make eye-contact with him or he'd be fired. Quaid and wife also got into bizarre battles at the Equity office, with his wife accused of kicking their 76-year old receptionist in the shins. And you thought he was nervy for suing the producers of Brokeback Mountain for more salary when the movie made more money than expected.
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The Castro Theatre in San Francisco will show BBM on February 24 and 25 and a tribute to Heath. Check out their website at http://www.thecastrotheatre.com/p-list.html
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The Castro Theatre in San Francisco will show BBM on February 24 and 25 and a tribute to Heath. Check out their website at http://www.thecastrotheatre.com/p-list.html
I'll be there wearing my Heath shirt.
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Good work on the Alvin Ailey profile.
When I was a teenager, companies like Alvin Ailey and Dance Theatre of Harlem were big influences on me. They were heroes of sorts. These companies and their members gave me the hope and courage to pursue my own career as a performer in the classical arts. They showed me that my color need not be a hindrance in an industry segment that is dominated by whites and asians.
I was lucky enough to not only take some classes at AAADT, but also to meet Alvin Ailey in the early 80s. In my mind, the greatest part of his legacy is that he was able to codify and present the unique African-American mode of expression through dance.
Milo
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Les plus beaux films d'amour (pour la Saint-Valentin)
Brokeback Mountain en tête, évidemment :
http://moncinema.cyberpresse.ca/nouvelles-et-critiques/nouvelles/nouvelle-cinema/3036-Les-plus-beaux-films-drsquoamour.html
********************************************************************
This chain of French-Canadian newspapers has Brokeback Mountain at number 1 in their top romantic movies (for Saint Valentine's day)
http://moncinema.cyberpresse.ca/nouvelles-et-critiques/nouvelles/nouvelle-cinema/3036-Les-plus-beaux-films-drsquoamour.html
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Re homophobic laws in so many Asian-Pacific Commonwealth countries, it is bitter that these laws mostly date from British colonial rule and that while Britain has changed so much for the better, the Asian-Pacific regimes have chosen to maintain their repression.
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to testadura:
You forgot to mention your sense of humor.... thanks -- we
were rolling as I was reading it during the Sunday Morning Newspaper
reading ritual over toast and fruit salad.
Alas, no smoked salmon.... ;)
. . . and to top it off, you can also be as serious as the
strip lines dividing highway lanes. ;)
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Great little piece on the bus stop cafe....very touching that there was a tribute to Heath there.
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I remember the piece about Heath's words on Ennis was posted many months ago on some thread or another here (most of this quote, if not all of it,), and there was a discussion about how an actor prepares for a scene, apart from how the scene actually comes across when it's viewed---thanks for posting this again for those who may not have seen it.
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just wanna say that while i missed having a member profile in today's tds, it was such a great issue. i loved the articles, heath's words, and the bus station diner. thanks to the folks at findingbrokeback for the story. that photo of the diner table, with the hat the the roses, is really touching, the wait staff over there sounds like great people... i didn't know they had a looped dvd segment with cassie's line playing over and over, LOL. (btw i think all her lines are memorable!)..
btw, opening images in a new window helps, you get more detail on the diner photos, and the pic that accompanies the story on lesbian lifesavers (i love saying that) looks good too. :D thanks dawn for your hard work on TDS!!
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Doesn't that term make you wonder what flavors those "lifesavers" come in?
This dates me terribly, but I can remember being excited about a Christmas gift - a special box containing rolls of lifesavers in probably a dozen or maybe 20 flavors!
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Doesn't that term make you wonder what flavors those "lifesavers" come in?
This dates me terribly, but I can remember being excited about a Christmas gift - a special box containing rolls of lifesavers in probably a dozen or maybe 20 flavors!
I remember that "book" of Lifesavers in my stocking every Christmas. Butter Rum my favorite flavor!
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WOOT for Ellen! ;D
-
Glenn?
GLENN?!
GLENN???!!!
GLENN???!!!
Where the hell you been?!
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Doesn't that term make you wonder what flavors those "lifesavers" come in?
This dates me terribly, but I can remember being excited about a Christmas gift - a special box containing rolls of lifesavers in probably a dozen or maybe 20 flavors!
I remember that "book" of Lifesavers in my stocking every Christmas. Butter Rum my favorite flavor!
Rob, you're exactly right. The silvery box opened like a book! And that was by far my favorite flavor, too!!! I was thinking it was butterscotch but you're right - it was Butter Rum. Yum!
- KH
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Doesn't that term make you wonder what flavors those "lifesavers" come in?
This dates me terribly, but I can remember being excited about a Christmas gift - a special box containing rolls of lifesavers in probably a dozen or maybe 20 flavors!
I remember that "book" of Lifesavers in my stocking every Christmas. Butter Rum my favorite flavor!
*melts* Deee-lish!
-
here is an exhaustive response to the Question of the Week regarding the purported protocal behind the position of the horse's legs on statues:
http://www.snopes.com/military/statue.asp
The article begins:
"Folk wisdom has it that equestrian statues contain a code whereby the rider's fate can be determined by noting how many hooves the horse has raised. The most common theory has it that if one hoof is raised, the rider was wounded in battle (possibly dying of those wounds later but not necessarily so); two raised hooves, death in battle; all four hooves on the ground, the rider survived all battles unharmed."
But then it goes on to totally debunk this folk wisdom.
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Doesn't that term make you wonder what flavors those "lifesavers" come in? This dates me terribly, but I can remember being excited about a Christmas gift - a special box containing rolls of lifesavers in probably a dozen or maybe 20 flavors!
I remember that "book" of Lifesavers in my stocking every Christmas. Butter Rum my favorite flavor!
*melts* Deee-lish!
I also have this childhood memory!
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Your favorite flavor, Lyle?
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Just reread the Lawrence King piece-it really sickens me. But why should we be surprised? Adults had to have tolerance forced on them at work, right? Why would we expect immature kids to be MORE tolerant at school?. We are after all the teachers, and if we can;t get out of our safe little ruts...
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Your favorite flavor, Lyle?
I remember that butter rum one well because, at least where I lived,
that one was not available all year long. I also remember NOT
liking the wintergreen ones...lol...
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Your favorite flavor, Lyle?
I remember that butter rum one well because, at least where I lived,
that one was not available all year long. I also remember NOT
liking the wintergreen ones...lol...
i vaguely remember that book of lifesavers... and butter rum flavor too.
i think my favorite was tropical fruit. :D
lawrence king.... so sad :( ...i suppose his name will be added to videos like these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw9zJq0QGl0
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Re: Joker action figure
Does the makeup wash off?
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The Advocate!!! That's soooo cool!!!
Great sheet :-*
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The pink shirts against bullying was one of the most refreshing stories that I've read about recently. Not all of this is in TDS but the boy that was bullied was a freshman and the boys that intervened in response were seniors. They went to a bargin story and bought 50 pink T-shirts. Then went home and emailed friends about the idea for everyone to wear pink the next day.
At school the following day many kids wore the pink T's that the seniors bought, but many others came decked out in their own pink. And in none of the stories did anyone feel the need to reveal the name of the boy who was originally harassed, they kept that private.
And now - because those senior boys stood up for what was right, schools all over that area have pink shirt days and the city of Vancouver is flying a pink flag against bullying, this Thursday. The whole story warmed my heart.
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http://justjared.buzznet.com/2008/02/26/remembering-lawrence-king/
I just read about that poor kid now and wondered if had been mentioned in the daily, I see it has. How tragic, just tragic :(
-
Nice to see my home province (Nova Scotia) made it into the DS. First time on the Forum, I think!
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Hey, welcome to the Forum, Bluenoser!
Just wanted you to know that a fellow Nova Scotian (is that the correct term?) was the art director for Beyond Brokeback, the book the Forum published last summer. He had a very big part in making it a success.
- KittyHawk
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Worth at least a line or two in the TDS, I think:
In this week's THE NEW YORKER, a non-fiction article titled THE BISHOP'S DAUGHTER,
A Father, A Faith and A Secret, by Honor Moore.
I know we have a TNY thread (and I'll probably drop a line or two or three thereabouts),
but this article really deserves a bit more wide-spread mention.
Basically it is about a daughter's attempt to decipher and resolve her relationship with
her enigmatic father after his death.
But if that were all, I wouldn't recommend it for TDS, it's just that the father had a
secret life which comes out into the open through a name found in a will and then,
a phone call.
Remind you of anything?
The phone call, described in the story is so touching and so reminiscent of BBM that
I stopped for a moment and had to take a deep breath. Though the reaction of the
daughter is one we would all wish to have under such circumstances, and different
in tone from the one in BBM, it still seems strangely connected. At least in the idea
of discovery and resignation to the fact that secrets left behind by the dead
must be dealt with by the living. I imagined 'Junior', Ennis's daughter, having this
sort of conversation with Jack, had their roles been reversed OR had Jack had a
daughter and the phone call was from Ennis.
Makes no sense, I know, but read the story, you'll see what I mean.
In some odd way, it made me proud to be a woman.
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That sounds really interesting, Rosewood. Thanks for the tip!
(If the TNY were a monthly, I'd probably subscribe, but I can not even begin to keep up with a weekly. I'm impressed with those who can! I'll settle for inheriting a few past issues now and then from a subscribing friend of mine. I'll put in my request for this issue now.)
- KH
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Advocate has published my letter online.
http://www.advocate.com/letters_detail_ektid52411.asp (http://www.advocate.com/letters_detail_ektid52411.asp)
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Advocate has published my letter online.
http://www.advocate.com/letters_detail_ektid52411.asp (http://www.advocate.com/letters_detail_ektid52411.asp)
Gorgeous, heartfelt letter, John.
So beautifully put.
Said everything I might have said, only better.
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John, that indeed was a beautiful letter.
I captured a screen print of that - to print and keep with the issue I just picked up today.
Image of John's Letter to the Avocate (http://www.sunponyranch.com/images/Johns-letter-to-the-Advocate.JPG)
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Advocate has published my letter online.
http://www.advocate.com/letters_detail_ektid52411.asp (http://www.advocate.com/letters_detail_ektid52411.asp)
Beautiful letter, John.
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Bravo John!!!
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Worth at least a line or two in the TDS, I think:
In this week's THE NEW YORKER, a non-fiction article titled THE BISHOP'S DAUGHTER,
A Father, A Faith and A Secret, by Honor Moore.
...Basically it is about a daughter's attempt to decipher and resolve her relationship with
her enigmatic father after his death.
But if that were all, I wouldn't, necessarily, recommend it for TDS, it's just that the father had a
secret life which comes out into the open through a name found in a will and then,
a phone call.
Remind you of anything?...
Correction: I've just realized that this piece is part of an upcoming book by the
author. But still, that shouldn't stop anyone enjoying this very compelling, non-fiction story.
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That sounds really interesting, Rosewood. Thanks for the tip!
(If the TNY were a monthly, I'd probably subscribe, but I can not even begin to keep up with a weekly. I'm impressed with those who can! I'll settle for inheriting a few past issues now and then from a subscribing friend of mine. I'll put in my request for this issue now.)
- KH
KH< the New Yorker is one of the main disfunctions of my life. I go through periods of grace (where I am only three behind-- or so) but currently I am drowning in them. A therapist would say throw them out and start fresh. A feng shui consultant would faint.
I can't move forward because of the New Yorker. For me Christmas is barely over, I am stuck in the month when I fell behind.
So I look forward to these peeks Rosewood gives us of current New Yorkers.
Now, back to my guilty procrastination....
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Thank you TDS, for spotlighting THE ADVOCATE issue that
is a tribute to Heath. It's the first thing I've picked up since
our loss that doesn't feel so sad and that I will like to
look at again from time to time...
The blue & white cover (plus the smile) seems like a breath
of fresh air. The Editor's column and the theme of the tribute
article are something I've not read anywhere else... The photos
are choice (although I'd like a whole book of them!). The side
articles--from our forum related one, to an artists appreciation
and Diana Ossana's comments...all quite nice in my book.
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http://justjared.buzznet.com/2008/02/26/remembering-lawrence-king/
I just read about that poor kid now and wondered if had been mentioned in the daily, I see it has. How tragic, just tragic :(
On Ellen's show today, she made a beautiful statement about this
situation, how wrong it was, and how that's got to change. It was
very nice.
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Jack has a link to a YouTube of her statement:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=1752.msg1210873#msg1210873
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http://justjared.buzznet.com/2008/02/26/remembering-lawrence-king/
I just read about that poor kid now and wondered if had been mentioned in the daily, I see it has. How tragic, just tragic :(
On Ellen's show today, she made a beautiful statement about this
situation, how wrong it was, and how that's got to change. It was
very nice.
Would you believe a friend just e-mailed me about that!!
I guess the boy asked the other boy to be his Valentine........and instead of saying "thanks, but no thanks" or maybe just saying NOTHING, he shot him!! Someone really raised that boy wrong. Two lives lost and for what........:(
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The first TV couple to be shown in a bed together? Too easy.
"Mary Kay and Johnny" in 1947.
On Tuesday, 18 November 1947, a 15-minute program entitled Mary Kay and Johnny made its debut on the Dumont network. Like the more famous I Love Lucy series that followed it, Mary Kay and Johnny starred a real-life couple, actors Johnny and Mary Kay Stearns. Mary Kay had been modeling junior wear on a weekly TV show when her husband pitched the idea of a television-based domestic comedy to a sponsor. (Many such domestic shows, often featuring real-life couples, were playing on radio, but none had yet made the transition to television). Johnny got the go-ahead to produce a single episode, so he wrote a light comedic script about a newly-married couple who lived in a Greenwich Village apartment, just as he and Mary Kay, also a newly-married couple, did. The show caught on, and Mary Kay and Johnny, performed live, became television's first sitcom, eventually running for three years on three different networks (Dumont, NBC, and CBS).
Another foreshadowing of the later I Love Lucy series occurred in December 1948 when the birth of the Stearns' first child was worked into an episode on the same day that Mary Kay herself gave birth, and the infant character was later added to the cast. (Since the show was performed live, obviously Mary Kay's character could not be shown giving birth on television while she gave birth for real in a hospital. That evening's episode instead featured a nervous Johnny anxiously pacing in a hospital waiting room while awaiting news of his off-screen wife.)
Because of the inherent limitations of live television, most of the episodes of Mary Kay and Johnny were set in the couple's apartment. Mary Kay and Johnny's apartment included a bedroom (but not a bathroom), and their bedroom had but a single bed, which they shared. How do we explain this lack of the squeamishness about bedroom (if not bathroom) functions that was soon manifested in the television industry? Who knows? Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that the show was on Dumont, that it was live, or that in those days the production of shows was financed by sponsors rather than by the networks. Perhaps the medium was just too new for anyone to have grown uptight about such concerns yet. All that matters is that Mary Kay and Johnny were there first.
Unfortunately, not even kinescopes of Mary Kay and Johnny have survived, so it exists only in the memories of those who saw the program during its original run half a century ago.
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/marykay.asp (http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/marykay.asp)
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I thought it was Rob and Laura Petrie (Dick V Dyke show...)
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The first TV couple to be shown in a bed together? Too easy.
"Mary Kay and Johnny" in 1947.
Because of the inherent limitations of live television, most of the episodes of Mary Kay and Johnny were set in the couple's apartment. Mary Kay and Johnny's apartment included a bedroom (but not a bathroom), and their bedroom had but a single bed, which they shared. How do we explain this lack of the squeamishness about bedroom (if not bathroom) functions that was soon manifested in the television industry? Who knows? Perhaps it had something to do with the fact that the show was on Dumont, that it was live, or that in those days the production of shows was financed by sponsors rather than by the networks. Perhaps the medium was just too new for anyone to have grown uptight about such concerns yet. All that matters is that Mary Kay and Johnny were there first.
Unfortunately, not even kinescopes of Mary Kay and Johnny have survived, so it exists only in the memories of those who saw the program during its original run half a century ago.
http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/marykay.asp (http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/marykay.asp)
Well, to hear my parents tell it, the real-life houses and apartments were very small, sometimes kids in the bedroom with parents, and yet they had very little knowledge of sex -- how did the parents manage this, I wonder? five kids in my mom's family, and seven in my dad's-- so something must have been going on! But they never knew a baby was coming until the day it arrived. :o
As for Rob and Laura Petrie, I distinctly remember twin beds in their bedroom. ;) unless something changed in later episodes.
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A good book review should do either one of two things--make you want to read
the book, or give you reasons you might not want to. Ellen, you wrote a great
review. I want to read that book!
Sydney's Mardi Gras:
Two friends of mine decided to take an early vacation this year and attend the
Sydney Mardi Gras. They took an Air New Zealand "Pink Flight" and you don't
have to guess what "that" means! The whole flight was hosted by Kathy Griffin
so laughter must've been flying over the Pacific last week. I received a few
pictures, none of Mardi Gras yet, but here's one of Kathy Griffin getting wild on
the flight over and one of the pilots...
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi129.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp228%2FMooskanate%2Fkathygettingwild.jpg&hash=38d5a58e7823307c3109a6f1038b3cdccabf5fa3) (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi129.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp228%2FMooskanate%2Fpilots.jpg&hash=856e77d663005d7e0218882d5ceded95ec02143d)
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P.S.: Congratulations to all the new babies!
And I just had to do this:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa241%2Felfellon%2Fkarel%2Fkarel32.jpg&hash=ac1558904497fe8cd24a2d003a51765670983a5a)
"...smiles a lot...!"
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P.S.: Congratulations to all the new babies!
And I just had to do this:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa241%2Felfellon%2Fkarel%2Fkarel32.jpg&hash=ac1558904497fe8cd24a2d003a51765670983a5a)
"...smiles a lot...!"
Thank you!
Didn't Jack say "eight months old"? This one's eight weeks old. And yeah - he does smile a lot. ;D
~elfie
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Thank you!
Didn't Jack say "eight months old"? This one's eight weeks old. And yeah - he does smile a lot. ;D
~elfie
He is so, so beautiful! Congratulations!
-
It was sooooo great to read about the arrival of all the brokie babies!
Congrats to Elfie, Carby, and Lfnanna!
Oh, btw, Carby, little Elias was born on Jan. 15th, huh? Martin Luthor King Jr.'s bday. And mine. ;)
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Oh, btw, Carby, little Elias was born on Jan. 15th, huh? Martin Luthor King Jr.'s bday. And mine. ;)
He sure was. Looks like he shares his birthday with some great people :)
-
Congratulations on the new babies :).
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Terrific review, Ellen! I'll be eager to see the discussion of it in the book thread.
- KH
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Oh, definitely. :)
I bought it recently and I'm quite engrossed by it.
Patterson brings to the table quite a few interesting ideas that seem to make a lot of sense to me. And the parallels he draws with some aspects of American literature and culture (Walt Whitman, especially), plus the whole pastoral tradition in Greek and Latin literature, are extremely interesting to me.
As you said in your review on TDS, Ellen, although he comes from an academic background, his language is accessible to all, without becoming too simplistic in any way.
I am also very interested in his views on the short story and the movie coming from a gay man, or a "man who loves men" as he prefers to define himself.
He seems to have done extensive background research, given the size of the bibliography.
My only problem is that I get a bit impatient in my reading and I tend to skip around a lot in the various chapters.
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My only problem is that I get a bit impatient in my reading and I tend to skip around a lot in the various chapters.
Excellent comments, freetraveller -- IMO skipping around in this type of book is perfectly legitimate. I would have read it that way if not for wanting to read every word in order for my review. The book really is organized more by subject than chronology.
ETA: Eric Patterson has joined our forum and will participate at some point in our discussion, probably near the end when we have distilled some questions we want to ask him. He doesn't know yet if he can ever do a live chat but we will see if his schedule allows.
:)
-
Thanks, Ellen! :)
Wow, excellent news about Eric joining the forum!
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the book would be perfect for you (CSI) and so many of the member who have discussed the film and story in Scenes. And the book club, Close Range thread. And new members who are looking for enlightenment. :)
Go to the discussion thread and post!
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=29227.0
Oh, yeah, this'll be GOOD! {rubs palms together...}
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I didn't see this on the Daily Sheet. (I did cross post in the thread about getting the book out there)
Got this through my news alerts:
"BEYOND BROKEBACK "" THE POWER OF STORY," a staged reading of "Brokeback Mountain" by Annie Proulx, is set for March 10 at Livermore's Firehouse Bistro and Books.
The event begins at 6 p.m., with a menu of potato and bacon chowder for $8, and wine, beer and other beverages, followed by the reading, which is free.
Actors, including Connie Duke, Tom Darter, Bryant Hoex, Karen Hogan, Kathy Streeter and Clark Streeter, will read Proulx's short story, as well as excerpts from "Beyond Brokeback: The Impact of a Film."
The event is at 2369 First St., Livermore. Tickets may be purchased at the door.
http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_8461640?source=rss
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I didn't see this on the Daily Sheet. (I did cross post in the thread about getting the book out there)
Got this through my news alerts:
"BEYOND BROKEBACK "" THE POWER OF STORY," a staged reading of "Brokeback Mountain" by Annie Proulx, is set for March 10 at Livermore's Firehouse Bistro and Books.
The event begins at 6 p.m., with a menu of potato and bacon chowder for $8, and wine, beer and other beverages, followed by the reading, which is free.
Actors, including Connie Duke, Tom Darter, Bryant Hoex, Karen Hogan, Kathy Streeter and Clark Streeter, will read Proulx's short story, as well as excerpts from "Beyond Brokeback: The Impact of a Film."
The event is at 2369 First St., Livermore. Tickets may be purchased at the door.
http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_8461640?source=rss
Oh, now fortunate for anyone who gets to be there for this.....I bet there will be an interesting Q and A session after it.
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You all have outdone yourselves w/ this week's two issues of TDS! So much good info...news, articles, profile, beautiful pix, laughs, photocaps, etc etc. Excellent reading, all!
I was particularly glad you re-ran the post-Oscar Variety ad, b/c I wasn't a member then. I was sorry I missed both seeing it & being a part of it. Certainly another classy ad that got it's point across!!
Kudos to TDS team, and thank you for all your hard work!
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We have a high-res image of the Variety Ad available here:
http://davecullen.com/brokebackmountain/img/ad-final.jpg (http://davecullen.com/brokebackmountain/img/ad-final.jpg)
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Thank you all so much for all of your very nice comments about TDS - we appreciate them. Each issue is truly a team effort, and what a very nice team it is.
BayCityJohn reminded us of the Variety ad anniversary, and I too was very glad that he did.
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John, many thx for the high-res link.
I was glad to be able to read all the names who voted it "best pic". And there were a lot of them!
-
Congratulations Dawn and team on the Working through Grief article! Really valuable, down-to-earth stuff!
-
(((((((Chris!)))))))
-
(((((((Chris!)))))))
((((((ROB!))))))
- you and gnash already were brave enough to write about this from your own points of view - you're both such an inspiration...
so really it's
(((((((((((Rob and Jimmy))))))))))))
- and some of you may notice that my individual experience is pretty well along the expected lines, as described in the PFLAG piece - but that does not make it any less profound - somewhat like motherhood, this experience has been described many times - but you have to experience it to feel it.
Thanks for all the kind comments :D
-
chris, i really enjoyed your article in TDS! thanks for sharing your "coming out" experience! your son is a lucky guy to have a mom that's so understanding and interested in his life. hugs to you! :) :-* :D
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Great reveiw of Patterson's book, Ellen. Just started it -- very interesting and comprehensive. He brings up a lot of related topics -- films, country music, and politics. This should be an interesting discussion. Look forward to it!
-
Jimmy - an eminent scientist once said 'example is not the main thing in influencing people - it is the only thing'
:-*
- so you and Rob did that a couple of weeks ago by putting your own coming out accounts into TDS. I can only guess how hard that was to do, I am happy to have done my piece, but it's really not like describing your recent holiday or something. And yet, I read the PFLAG piece below it and think - our experience as a family is garden variety stuff, almost banal.
I read yesterday about the use of 'gay' as an insult in schools here, maybe why my son waited till he had finished his undergrad. career before he came out, which means he had 10 years or so of not talking about it, I am sorry he had even this much to bear. And I liked this quote from TDS -
After one mother describes her initial reaction to her son coming out, she then explains her husbands thoughts when she tells him that their son is gay: "As I expressed to my husband what our son had told me he immediately pulled the car into a shopping center and said, "I need to find a phone." The reason he needed to find a phone was to call our son. He said "I don't want Kerry to worry even one more minute about what my response will be." Then Kerry recounts what his Father said to him: "Kerry I just want you to know that everything is going to be fine, everything is going to be OK, you don't need to have any fear, any fear at all."
- the mum had the job of telling the dad, fortunately than man's response was as perfect as anyone could wish for - Kerry was lucky too.
-
Interestingly, that father and son hadn't had the closest relationship up until that time. The film also has a native-American Dad who really touched your heart with his revelations related to his son coming out. It was really a wonderful thing what some of the Fathers had to say.
And with people for whom faith/church is a major part of your life, there was some really powerful things said, especially by Kerry's Mom. Some of the things were heart-breaking, some were so encouraging and enlightening - I was sorry when the movie was over, I wanted to see more.
And montezumae, for every gay child, there are two parents who need to work through that reality. You'll probably never know just how much your courage to open up about your experience in such an honest way, will affect and influence other families to embrace their child for who he or she is. (Just as I’m sure that the stories by Rob and gnash planted seeds that will blossom into hope for other young gay people).
-
Thanks for your comments about the film, it sounds like I should watch that : I haven't,yet.
But the more I read about the use of 'gay' as a derogatory term in schools, the less I like it. (That's in the UK), e.g. computers are 'gay' !
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The March 4th TDS had an article about the Sydney Mardi Gras and I had
mentioned that a couple friends of mine attended. After talking to them
today I found out that after the parade there was an official dance that
was attended by nearly 30,000 people. They did a tribute at the dance
to Heath Ledger, playing one of the Brokeback Mountain remixes,
followed by a song entitled "Missing You". My friend said it was very
touching.
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Thank you so much, Chris (montezumae), for your honest, down-to-earth, insightful and moving contribution to the Daily Sheet. I am sure it will inspire so many other people in similar circumstances.
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Thank you so much, Chris (montezumae), for your honest, down-to-earth, insightful and moving contribution to the Daily Sheet. I am sure it will inspire so many other people in similar circumstances.
thanks, and how nice to read your profile today. My son was born in Ireland, so should have called my piece 'mum, dad, i'm gaelic'
see today's TDS
;D
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Got a big laugh on the locker room piece! Thanks!
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Congratulations Freetraveller on a lovely profile! :D :D
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The March 4th TDS had an article about the Sydney Mardi Gras and I had
mentioned that a couple friends of mine attended. After talking to them
today I found out that after the parade there was an official dance that
was attended by nearly 30,000 people. They did a tribute at the dance
to Heath Ledger, playing one of the Brokeback Mountain remixes,
followed by a song entitled "Missing You". My friend said it was very
touching.
That's good to know. I wondered if Heath would be acknowledged at the Mardi Gras. I was mildly surprised not to see some reference in the parade itself - not that I saw much of it.
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Hey Freetraveller, congratulations on a lovely and inspiring profile, so positive. Striving to live up to your dreams and succeeding because you don't let obstacles in the way deter you. Way to go :) :-*
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Freetraveller, congratulations for the profile!!!!
And thank you!!! :) :) :)
((((((((((((((( Hugs )))))))))))))))))
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Re the Berlin memorial to the homosexuals who were persecuted by the Nazis.
It's good to see Berlin especially catching up with a number of other cities round the world. I doubt that the Nazis actually banned homosexuality - they were just very active in enforcing a law that had been passed in the 19th century or they may have made it even more draconian than it originally was.
When the Allies opened the concentration camps in the process of defeating the Nazis and occupying the formerly Nazi-occupied territories, they released the Jewish, Rom, political and other prisoners of conscience, but they did not release the homosexuals, who were treated as ordinary common criminals - they had to serve out their sentences.
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Thank you so much, Chris (montezumae), for your honest, down-to-earth, insightful and moving contribution to the Daily Sheet. I am sure it will inspire so many other people in similar circumstances.
thanks, and how nice to read your profile today. My son was born in Ireland, so should have called my piece 'mum, dad, i'm gaelic'
see today's TDS
;D
(((Chris))) :)
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Heartfelt thanks to Chris, Mia, janjo, mouk for your kind words. :)
(((you all))) from a rain-drenched London,
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Freetraveller, what a great profile! You are so accomplished at so many things!! I really admire that...
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That was an excellent interview regarding the coming out of our forum member's son....very insightful and informative for me.
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Freetraveller,
Glad to have read your profile.
We have things in common ;-): being a "foreigner" in London, shyness and translation (although I'm only a hesitant beginner).
You've done well, girl 8)
Hugs,
MM
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:) I enjoyed reading your profile Freetravz!! Thanks for telling us all about you :-*
And thx tyw and Dawn for the update on Kazemi. This seems so clear cut - free countries should give gays asylum if they face hanging in Iran or anywhere else.
Glad to see the news about the gay monument in Berlin. This is a welcome change from the way Germany was dealing with this issue several years ago. I went to the museum at the prison camp in Dachau in the 1980s. In the entire camp I could find only 2 indications that gays had been among those imprisoned and killed there.
The first was a photo of a man being tortured, with a caption that said he was a homosexual. The other was a photo of the census of the camp in April 1945. It was difficult to read both because of the quality of the photo and the use of the ancient-looking Fraktur script where all letters look a lot like just vertical lines (it was worse than this example). (http://www.utils.ex.ac.uk/german/abinitio/alphabet/fraktur.gif)
But if you studied carefully you could see that the second largest population at the camp was "homosexuals."
However in the captions at the bottom, in German, English, French and Russian, the details were translated concerning all the other groups (Jews, gypsies, criminals, communists, etc.) but the line concerning homosexuals was left out. They just skipped it. I'm pretty clear the information was being suppressed, even in the 1980s.
In fact Paragraph 175, the Nazi law under which gays were imprisoned and killed, was still the law in (West) Germany until 1994. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph_175) There's a table at the Wikipedia site that shows that tens of thousands of gay men were still being convicted under this same law from 1950 to 1987.
I decided that day at Dachau for the first time that I would have sex with a man, and I did before the day was done. ;)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.germany-tourism.ie%2Fimages%2Fcontent%2Fpic_football_munich2_neu.jpg&hash=71c955f9b388fcfd03f579b2659d97cd86973235) (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2Folmedia%2F1045000%2Fimages%2F_1049335_gay300.jpg&hash=5bd3716f4cf8118be4bcbe949f961a276116461c) (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AvYEyutCkEvxMYM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww2.hu-berlin.de%2Fsexology%2FGESUND%2FARCHIV%2FGIF%2FXWHK1.JPG&hash=c73722631de72731b88e317452b365e1b13db4dc) (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftbn0.google.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AP4FhqvgyUwX0HM%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvwt.d2g.com%3A8081%2Fgay_ahmadinejad.jpg&hash=aab21db135deb6828c8e1050350e469dcb514ab3)
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Freetraveller, what a great profile! You are so accomplished at so many things!! I really admire that...
Thanks so much, CSI :)
And I agree with you about how inspiring was montezumae's account on her son's coming out
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Thank you so much, mountain boy! :)
I also visited Dachau (in '94), but I was so shocked and overwhelmed by the whole experience I failed to notice as many details as you did.
I'm glad things seems to be moving in the right direction, with the latest news about the memorial.
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Freetraveller,
Glad to have read your profile.
We have things in common ;-): being a "foreigner" in London, shyness and translation (although I'm only a hesitant beginner).
You've done well, girl 8)
Hugs,
MM
Thank you so much, MountainMouse, and welcome again to the forum, I'm sure you will feel at home in no time ;)
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i totally agree that it is one of the most important parts of history research and reparation to reveal ALL the victims of the nazis, and homosexuals have been shamefully concealed for much too long. the netherlands, always the first ones regarding tolerance and civil rights, already have a national monument for the gay victims of persecution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homomonument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homomonument).
there's a a small correction that i need to make:
In fact Paragraph 175, the Nazi law under which gays were imprisoned and killed, was still the law in (West) Germany until 1994. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph_175) There's a table at the Wikipedia site that shows that tens of thousands of gay men were still being convicted under this same law from 1950 to 1987.
this law wasn't installed by the nazis, it is a sodomy law passed in 1871, way before the rise of national socialism. sad as they are, similar laws have been (or still are) in place in almost every country (there are some still in place in the US, for example). the original law that prohibited "unnatural acts" was enlarged by the nazis to accomodate their rejection of homosexuality and allowed them to imprison and even kill homosexuals. after the war, however, the law was changed again and now prohibited sex of adults with underage (below 21) same-sex partners. it was repeatedly critisized that other age limits were used for hetero-and homosexuals, and in 1994, it was finally deleted, leaving the same age limits for sex for all sexual orientations.
i'm not trying to defend the nazis or anybody who discriminates homosexuals - it just read as if after the war, homosexuals were still prosecuted on basis of nazi laws, which of course is not true. yet, of course, it was a hard and rocky path to equality. :-\
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There are other memorials to the gay holocaust in Germany.
http://andrejkoymasky.com/mem/holocaust/ho08.html
Mauthausen in 1984 was apparently the first and the one in Frankfurt 1994 appears especialy moving.
I hope to visit it in June and also hope the one in Berlin will be open when I am there in May.
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Freetraveller, what a great profile! You are so accomplished at so many things!! I really admire that...
Thanks so much, CSI :)
And I agree with you about how inspiring was montezumae's account on her son's coming out
-well thanks, if it helps someone I'm more than happy - but please remember also my other aim - to show my thanks to the forum 'itself' - if that means anything - and to thank my forum friends for their kind support. Means a lot. If this happens to you - this forum will help you find the ways through the maze.
I read today about Germany's first care home for gays and lesbians!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/mar/17/longtermcare.gayrights
a propos the Nazis. There must be a generation who came out after the war, I suppose?
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Hi freetraveler,
I loved reading your profile. I'm a Virgo, and since you're a Libra, I think we would get on well I wish I could make it to London soon to meet you and the others there. How wonderful that you've done all that traveling, and that you moved to London to follow your heart. Best thing to do. I love to travel too, so I understand---it's wonderful to see new places, and landscapes. Thanks for sharing your story. It was also great to see a picture of you---now that we've exchanged a few PM messages. Take care, Lauren
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i totally agree that it is one of the most important parts of history research and reparation to reveal ALL the victims of the nazis, and homosexuals have been shamefully concealed for much too long. the netherlands, always the first ones regarding tolerance and civil rights, already have a national monument for the gay victims of persecution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homomonument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homomonument).
there's a a small correction that i need to make:
In fact Paragraph 175, the Nazi law under which gays were imprisoned and killed, was still the law in (West) Germany until 1994. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph_175) There's a table at the Wikipedia site that shows that tens of thousands of gay men were still being convicted under this same law from 1950 to 1987.
this law wasn't installed by the nazis, it is a sodomy law passed in 1871, way before the rise of national socialism. sad as they are, similar laws have been (or still are) in place in almost every country (there are some still in place in the US, for example). the original law that prohibited "unnatural acts" was enlarged by the nazis to accomodate their rejection of homosexuality and allowed them to imprison and even kill homosexuals. after the war, however, the law was changed again and now prohibited sex of adults with underage (below 21) same-sex partners. it was repeatedly critisized that other age limits were used for hetero-and homosexuals, and in 1994, it was finally deleted, leaving the same age limits for sex for all sexual orientations.
i'm not trying to defend the nazis or anybody who discriminates homosexuals - it just read as if after the war, homosexuals were still prosecuted on basis of nazi laws, which of course is not true. yet, of course, it was a hard and rocky path to equality. :-\
Thank you for the corrections, Martina.
In the same way, many homophobic countries which persecute gays and lesbians today use laws that were originally enacted by colonial regimes, especially, the British.
Conventional histories which mention the infamous book burning by the Nazis after they came to power in 1933 usually fail to mention that the Nazis burnt the entire archives and library of the Institute for Sexual Science, the life work of Dr Magnus Hirschfeld, the pioneering researcher of minority sexualities and campaigner for the abolition of the notorious Paragraph 175 of the penal code of Imperial Germany.
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how much one wishes they had digital conservation at this time alreday, right ? :'(
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Very interesting TDS today. I loved all the Heath features and it's so interesting to know how Heath felt about his Joker performance. I have never been much of a Batman fan (at least, not since the days of Adam West) I guess I am more of a Robin fan -- and the Joker is creepiest of all the villains, even when he wasn't so evil-looking like Heath.
But, I guess I will have to see it.
******
Thanks to Bay City John for the great write-up and links to the BBM reading. Thanks for taking the time to make them available to us.
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Hi freetraveler,
I loved reading your profile. I'm a Virgo, and since you're a Libra, I think we would get on well I wish I could make it to London soon to meet you and the others there. How wonderful that you've done all that traveling, and that you moved to London to follow your heart. Best thing to do. I love to travel too, so I understand---it's wonderful to see new places, and landscapes. Thanks for sharing your story. It was also great to see a picture of you---now that we've exchanged a few PM messages. Take care, Lauren
Thank you so much, Lauren, for your kind words.
Yes, I do get on well with Virgo. :)
I still haven't replied to your PM, I will do soon.
Take care,
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Very interesting TDS today. I loved all the Heath features and it's so interesting to know how Heath felt about his Joker performance. I have never been much of a Batman fan (at least, not since the days of Adam West) I guess I am more of a Robin fan -- and the Joker is creepiest of all the villains, even when he wasn't so evil-looking like Heath.
But, I guess I will have to see it.
******
Me too Ellen, I find those movies very dark, not something I would normally watch. But everyone says how wonderful his performance was, so I'll probably make an exception and watch this one.
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I haven't seen a Batman movie since 1966.
Am I going to see The Dark Knight?
You bet!
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I haven't seen a Batman movie since 1966.
Am I going to see The Dark Knight?
You bet!
:D :D :D
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It's ok to like Batman ;D Not every film we see must make us think to be of value. Although, I think Heath's performance will do just that... I loved comics when I was a kid....and I watched Batman on TV. Pure camp and pure pleasure.
You couldn't tear me away from anything with Heath in it, and I find the darkness of the Batman stories classic stuff. I love myth, anyway.
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Just wanted to say, great TDS profile, Dahlia.
So nice to be able to actually meet the person behind the name.
Glad to see you're sticking with the Steve Hamiltons.
One of my favorite authors!
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I wonder if the people at Oklahoma Equality realize that the screening of the movie is on Heath's birthday?
I wish I could be there. thanks for the information.
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Loved Dahlia's profile!
Thanks for keeping the profiles coming! I love reading them!
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Aren't the profiles great - each just as interesting as the next, this forum has the most fascinating people.
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Aren't the profiles great - each just as interesting as the next, this forum has the most fascinating people.
Thanks Dawn. And as I already was asking you, it'd be nice to have all the profiles stored somewhere or, at least, to have an index with dates and names so they could be accessed more easily.
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Just wanted to say, great TDS profile, Dahlia.
So nice to be able to actually meet the person behind the name.
Glad to see you're sticking with the Steve Hamiltons.
One of my favorite authors!
oohhh I love Steve! and thanks a lot darling :)
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Loved Dahlia's profile!
:-* :-*
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Super profile, Dahlia, I really like your way of thinking. If I am around for the Oxford gathering, I will very much look forward to meeting you!
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Aren't the profiles great - each just as interesting as the next, this forum has the most fascinating people.
Thanks Dawn. And as I already was asking you, it'd be nice to have all the profiles stored somewhere or, at least, to have an index with dates and names so they could be accessed more easily.
Let me see what we might be able to do about that (indexing the profiles) - I'll get back to you.
Thanks for the reminder.
Dawn
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Daniela,
I love your profile!
Good to really meet you, looking forward to a hug in Oxford!
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Lovely profile Daniela! I'm sorry we won't be able to meet in Oxford, but sometime soon I hope!
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Great profile, Daniela (dahlia)! ;)
I can relate very well to much of what you said, and I look forward to meeting you in Oxford,
Take care,
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I don't say it often enough either, but I love the profiles
They are the highlight of my week on this forum.
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I too loved Dahlia's profile, thanks so much. Look forward to meeting you in Oxford, Dahlia!
And I'd like to thank all those who responded to my coming out piece in TDS. I will get back to you all soon, I hope. Anyone who is interested can read what I just posted in the 'How Brokeback affected me' thread. A sort of follow-up.
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I read it, Chris... All the best to your son. I hope soon he accepts and allows himself to just be.
I also hope he watches our movie, and makes it his, too!
See you in Oxford!
Hugs,
Rob
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Hello Rob, thanks for reading. Yes, I hope he watches it with his partner. I would like to think it will help them to work out whatever is a problem for them right now.
- and yes, I look forward to meeting you in Oxford!
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Super profile, Dahlia, I really like your way of thinking. If I am around for the Oxford gathering, I will very much look forward to meeting you!
I really hope you can make it to Oxford, Mouk :)
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looking forward to a hug in Oxford!
me too!!! a (((((((((super-hug))))))))))) :-*
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Great profile, Daniela (dahlia)! ;)
I can relate very well to much of what you said, and I look forward to meeting you in Oxford,
Take care,
Grazie. A presto, Paola.
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I'm sorry we won't be able to meet in Oxford
oh yeah....that's too bad :(
let's hope for another chance Sue :)
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And I'd like to thank all those who responded to my coming out piece in TDS. I will get back to you all soon, I hope. Anyone who is interested can read what I just posted in the 'How Brokeback affected me' thread. A sort of follow-up.
Thank you a lot, Chris.
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Hello Rob, thanks for reading. Yes, I hope he watches it with his partner. I would like to think it will help them to work out whatever is a problem for them right now.
- and yes, I look forward to meeting you in Oxford!
Chris, how is it that your son has managed NOT to watch it all this time, knowing how you feel about it? I thought that peculiarity was confined to husbands of Brokies. ::)
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Can you really balance an egg on its end on the vernal equinox?
Yes.
And you can do it every other day of the year as well.
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Alright John - you're too good, your answer was completely correct. I'll have to ratchet up the difficulty level here!
Watch out next week. ;D
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I learned about the egg trick back in 1965. ;D
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Hello Rob, thanks for reading. Yes, I hope he watches it with his partner. I would like to think it will help them to work out whatever is a problem for them right now.
- and yes, I look forward to meeting you in Oxford!
Chris, how is it that your son has managed NOT to watch it all this time, knowing how you feel about it? I thought that peculiarity was confined to husbands of Brokies. ::)
I know, I know...
... when it first came out, I invited he and his partner to come with me to see it. He ummed and aahhed!. Then after a while he said, his friends told him it was not a film you could go to see with your mum ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
.... so that's how I come to end up here, as Ennis del Mar used to say, because after a couple of weeks of this I went by myself, a most unusual event for me.
I imagine he thought it must be semi-pornographic or something???
Since then I have just been waiting...
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Hi, Dahlia/Daniela!
I've read your profile, I liked it. ''I was very radical, very feminist, very naïve and very good at school'': we had (have?) lots in common ;).
And I've already congratulated elsewhere freetraveller and montezumae on their contribution to the TDS, but I can repeat it here. It's nice to know more about the people on the forum.
It will be even nicer to meet some of you in person: I'm already excited about my first gathering in Oxford!
Ciao
Antonella
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Hi, Dahlia/Daniela!
It will be even nicer to meet some of you in person: I'm already excited about my first gathering in Oxford!
Ciao
Antonella
Grazie Antonella....it's gonna be great to meet you ;)
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Ciao Antonella, nice to see you here :)
I also like reading other forum member profiles, I can still remember some profiles I'd read two years ago!
I think Dawn (Stilllearning) has just started a new thread indexing member profiles - I just saw it today...
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=29519.0 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=29519.0)
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bè, ciao Paola ;)
Profile Index! Great....I missed most of them, want to read them all :)
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Ciao Antonella, nice to see you here :)
I also like reading other forum member profiles, I can still remember some profiles I'd read two years ago!
I think Dawn (Stilllearning) has just started a new thread indexing member profiles - I just saw it today...
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=29519.0 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=29519.0)
Thank you for posting this!
In fact the forum is a mine of useful information and threads. The problem is to find time to read and follow them...
Ciao
A
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Thank you Dawn, for the profile index! Good to be able to find people!
Chronological order is good, you can use the browser search function to find an individual name.
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Well you know, I really didn't think about what would be best - chronological or alphabetical order - I just started doing them. Let me think about that and consult with the real experts and see what would be the best approach, easiest for everyone.
Thanks!
Dawn
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Dawn, thank you for doing this, what a really nice idea. It has always been so interesting and inspiring to read about my fellow forum members.
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Thank you, Dawn, for doing this! I can't wait to start reading them all again.
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Hi Elena/Antonella. I just read your profile. I'd like to quote this
What is the greatest gift that you have received? Why? I was the first woman of my quite modest family to go to University. . This was a great gift because it helped me to escape from my village where I was suffocating being a teenager a bit different from the average, and it helped me to expand my horizons.
......same here ;) I know very well what you mean!
thanks for sharing, ciao :)
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Hi Elena/Antonella. I just read your profile. I'd like to quote this
What is the greatest gift that you have received? Why? I was the first woman of my quite modest family to go to University. . This was a great gift because it helped me to escape from my village where I was suffocating being a teenager a bit different from the average, and it helped me to expand my horizons.
......same here ;) I know very well what you mean!
Cara Daniela,
Thank you for your feedback.
I suspect our respective youths had a lot in common and not all positive... But we did manage to grow up and become balanced persons, so there was an happy ending ;)
Ciao
Antonella
PS: Funny like the TDS staff picked up three Italians in a row! I told them, they should state they do not have preferences for Italians.
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I suspect our respective youths had a lot in common and not all positive... But we did manage to grow up and become balanced persons, so there was an happy ending ;)
Ciao
Antonella
PS: Funny like the TDS staff picked up three Italians in a row! I told them, they should state they do not have preferences for Italians.
Si, l'ho pensato anch'io....!!! (exactly my thoughts)
Ciao e grazie
Daniela
A toast to our collective happy ending!!! (....with good Italian wine of course ;))
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Ciao Elena/Antonella, :)
What an interesting profile! I confess I didn't know about Laughter Yoga, I am going to check it out now!
Yes, I think three Italians profiled in a row must be a first for this forum! ;) ;D
Take care,
P
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Ciao Elena/Antonella, :)
What an interesting profile! I confess I didn't know about Laughter Yoga, I am going to check it out now!
Yes, I think three Italians profiled in a row must be a first for this forum! ;) ;D
Cara Paola,
Thank you! (I feel a bit silly writing to you in English instead than in Italian :D)
Laughter Yoga is interesting and funny. But I do it only once a month, because I can't imagine to follow a course once a week (in fact there is no such course around here...).
The thing with the three Italians in a row is even stranger if you think that there are not so many of us around as far as I know.
Ciao
Antonella
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Thanks to all you lovely Italian ladies for these insightful profiles. Congratulazioni! Mille grazie! xxx
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Gotta say... Ennis and Jack's slow-motion kiss moved me to tears...
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I liked the Martha Stewart vs. Maxine feature. I love getting brilliant advice from Martha (flour the cake pan with cake mix!) but since the cakes from the store are better anyway, I follow Maxine's advice, I guess.
Here's another good one:
Martha says you can use leftover wine for cooking and in sauce reductions.
The real woman (or, Maxine, if you like) says -- "Leftover wine?" ::)
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re the pm plea: perfect
kj
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Gotta say... Ennis and Jack's slow-motion kiss moved me to tears...
oh, I know! - thanks to whoever dug that one up. (((Rob)))
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That Clinton vs Bush photoshop stopped me dead in my tracks..... ;D ;D
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Gotta say... Ennis and Jack's slow-motion kiss moved me to tears...
oh, I know! - thanks to whoever dug that one up. (((Rob)))
Tellyouwhat came up with that. It takes your breath away - still.
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Tellyouwhat came up with that. It takes your breath away - still.
It always will for me........
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Gotta say... Ennis and Jack's slow-motion kiss moved me to tears...
oh, I know! - thanks to whoever dug that one up. (((Rob)))
Tellyouwhat came up with that. It takes your breath away - still.
- yes, when I first saw this I did't know what had hit me - now I know, perhaps, and it still hits me, the whole thing defies any rational analysis.
Thanks Ellen.
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Great Daily Sheet as usual, guys!
Forgive a dumb question please, what happened to Jake?
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Thanks for 10 Things We Love About Heath, although we could probably write a hundred things and still be finding plenty more. The occasion of his birthday is a time for reflection on what a great talent and great human being we have lost.
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Great Daily Sheet as usual, guys!
Forgive a dumb question please, what happened to Jake?
That's not a dumb questions - ya know, originally I had in the caption "from what is thought to be an ankle injury" - but then I took it out. Maybe I should put it back in :D. My understanding is he injured his ankle in a basketball game, but I'm not sure (which is why I took out that part), I can't keep up with Jake-news like our Lashers can ;D.
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I saw the film Shelter that you mentioned in TDS today.
My brief review:
At first I was a bit impatient with it--it did not seem to be covering
any new ground that I haven't seen in a gay film before, but I began
to be, and was finally won over by the earnest and believable
performances that made it work. In many a low-budgeted gay
themed film there are a couple good actors and some of the
supporting ones are downright awful. The acting in all departments
was quite good in this one and that was a tremendous boost.
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Thank you so much for 10 Things We Love About Heath on yesterday's TDS :-*
And Serendipity, I liked your profile! Thanks for sharing,
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Rosewood, I liked reading what's in your name.....great name btw.
And....great job, here and in a few other sites I've discovered - ah-ha.........you can imagine how :-X - (book reviews and beautiful drawings).
:-*
great people in this forum ;)
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janjo - thanks for the item about Alan Duncan, I missed all that. US readers please note - I agree with janjo the timesonline link she gives captures quite well the mood here. Duncan comments very positively on the changes in attitudes to same-sex couples in the UK.
My daughter, a young schoolteacher here in the UK, was telling me today there are several openly gay kids in her school. Now that's progress.
and Rosewood - that was nice. I called myself after the montezuma pine - because it seems to be very diifficult to get hold of in the UK, I think it's a wonderful tree and because it comes from Mexico.
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Thank you very much for your kind words Montezumae. I found the whole tone, even of the research, really refreshing.
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Thank you very much for your kind words Montezumae. I found the whole tone, even of the research, really refreshing.
yes, really quite cheering isn't it!!! - you'll see a cross-ref to this in the 'ignorant straight girls' thread. I am still sort-of amazed that we are living to see this acceptance. I have a little quote somewhere which says there are three stages to recognising truth
1. ridicule
2. outright hostility
3. sudden acceptance
- well, something like that.
- gay weddings seem to fit that pattern.
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That was a nice "Thank You" to the moderators.
Four of us were at dinner Sunday night, talking about the forum (among other topics), and all agreed we'd never want to / be able to be a mod...not for love or money. Too tough a job.
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Hooray moderators!!
The sheet is amazing. Thank you all :-* :-* :-*
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I'd like to join the universal praise and thanks for the moderators!
Best Wishes to you all!
Antonella
PS: Serendipity, I've read with interest your profile. You are Irish! I'm absolutely fond of your country (I even did my graduation thesis on Ireland)! My best friend is from Blackrock and I going to see her after the meeting in Oxford in June.
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yes, yes, I echo that! And I've just come back from visiting Dublin, my home for 20 years. I love to hear about/from people with Irish connections.
Blackrock :D
Antonella - where did you do your thesis?
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yes, yes, I echo that! And I've just come back from visiting Dublin, my home for 20 years. I love to hear about/from people with Irish connections.
Blackrock :D
Antonella - where did you do your thesis?
Hi, Chris!
I was in Dublin last year (probably the last time I had been there before was 1999 or so) and I was amazed at the changes. Also the social changes, not only the changes in the city shape.
I studied at the State University of Milano.
Have a nice day!
A
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Nice to see that the mods are being officially recognised and thanked for all their good work. Not an easy task, and they do it with courage, tact and humor. Thank you all!
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Sending a big (((((((hug)))))))) to the mods!
We appreciate the tough work and your time. You rock, guys/girls!!! :-*
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:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
That was a nice surprise from the Daily Sheet, a pat on the back is always a wonderful thing.
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:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
That was a nice surprise from the Daily Sheet, a pat on the back is always a wonderful thing.
Very nice, indeed. Thanks, you guys!
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Please note: past issues of TDS from February 17 to April 1 have been moved to The Daily Sheet Archives.
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Thank you for that wonderful tribute to our hard-working mods!
You guys (mods) are the best and we appreciate all your time and effort!
((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))) to you all!
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Hi, Chris!
I was in Dublin last year (probably the last time I had been there before was 1999 or so) and I was amazed at the changes. Also the social changes, not only the changes in the city shape.
I studied at the State University of Milano.
Have a nice day!
A
Yes Dublin is amazingly different, mainly improved, I think. Sorry, I misread your post, what I was really interested in was the Irish topic, but that's a bit off topic I suppose.
So I'll add my ((((((((((((((((((MOD)))))))))))))))))) hug :D :-* - your unseen collective wisdom is a gift to us all - thanks!
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I was in Dublin last year, and loved it.
I love our MODS too. Thank you for all your hard work in keeping us all in line. It can't be easy.
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Definitely a great big THANK YOU to the Mods! Thanks for putting up with us and keeping us in line when we need it ;) Almost like being parents, hehe ;D
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Yes! A BIG Thank You!...to all of the Moderators, and the Daily Sheet.
I am so grateful to you ALL for the time you have so generously given.
Lives have been changed - and for the better - because of this Forum, Including mine.
Best wishes to each of you.
Jay
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Definitely a great big THANK YOU to the Mods! Thanks for putting up with us and keeping us in line when we need it ;) Almost like being parents, hehe ;D
And so nice to see you in the profile!! :-*
Other than BBM, what movie has impacted you the most? The Green Mile was exceptional – to me it was a movie about compassion and about spiritual strength. About thinking outside the norm and allowing yourself to believe.
I had no idea, one of my favourite movies and book! ;=
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And so nice to see you in the profile!! :-*
Other than BBM, what movie has impacted you the most? The Green Mile was exceptional – to me it was a movie about compassion and about spiritual strength. About thinking outside the norm and allowing yourself to believe.
I had no idea, one of my favourite movies and book! ;=
Why thank ya hon :-*
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cazzyj, what a wonderful Profile!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr308%2FNewport_Beach_Girl%2FHolidays%2FFlowers%2FRoses%2F027.jpg&hash=ad27a6066ce2b6b48b30dc384b0a0da3f6b087f2)
:-*
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Chuck, your poem is absolutely beautiful.
Thank you.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi147.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr308%2FNewport_Beach_Girl%2FHolidays%2FFlowers%2FRoses%2F010L.gif&hash=39a76ab4363a5f90f2b59684810be89d03f9b260)
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Sorry, I didn't have the new album 'Meet Me on the Mountain' available on our forum store until today.
It's available on Amazon as an mp3 dowload.
I love this album.
http://astore.amazon.com/davecullencom-20/detail/B00169SYJ8/002-1602855-8739251 (http://astore.amazon.com/davecullencom-20/detail/B00169SYJ8/002-1602855-8739251)
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Thanks for all the kind words, everyone!
I am proud to be a mod here!
And Bubo, I'm glad you liked the poem! ;D
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Chuck, your poem was absolutely wonderful! :)
Bubo, thanks for the gorgeous flowers, hon :)
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Thank you to all the mods for the hard and delicate work you do here :)
cazzyj, a very interesting profile :)
and thank you so much for the article on Vincent Fantauzzo's portrait of Heath and the wonderful, heart-felt interview from the Art Gallery of New South Wales web page...
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As usual, a great Daily Sheet.
I've not read any fan fiction, but after reading
"Fan Fiction ~ A One-shot
Have you ever wondered about
the second pillow on Ennis' bed?
The Beacon
By gilli_ann
(an After-Jack story)"
I may have to start!!!
Thank you all!
:-*
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I can't believe my caption made it in. THANKS!! Who knew we would all find "condiments" so funny.........but thanks to Ennis we always will. :-*
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I can't believe my caption made it in. THANKS!! Who knew we would all find "condiments" so funny.........but thanks to Ennis we always will. :-*
Hey Lola! Congrats on making the TDS - loved the quote! I musta missed that one when it you posted it :)
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Congrats to everybody contributing to TDS, but especially to Gillian for another of her stunning one shots!
Ciao
Antonella
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I can't think of a greater honour than to have something I posted in TDS anniversary edition. I'm thrilled and a little tearful. Thank you also for all those wonderful memories.
Janie
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It was our pleasure to feature your beautiful work!
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Janie - I was so pleased to see your lovely work featured just now. Great choice by the editor. Thanks to all involved with TDS - my essential reading.
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Mule, congrats on your profile :)
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Thanks to all the TDS staff, past & present,
for the many hours you spend to keep
us informed & entertained!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh86%2FBrokenOkie%2FTDS%2Fanniv.jpg&hash=f0195a0e46d0c342524f5eeb9ba7911aa7037198)
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Janie - I was do pleased to see yor lovely work featured just now. Great choice by the editor. Thanks to all involved with TDS - my essentiall reading.
Dawn and Chris, :-*
Janie
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Janie - I was do pleased to see yor lovely work featured just now. Great choice by the editor. Thanks to all involved with TDS - my essentiall reading.
Dawn and Chris, :-*
Janie
Dear Janie, I had glimpsed at your artwork before, but it was good to get a little reminder of your talent on the Daily Sheet.
Thank you again,
Paola
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Congrats to DCF for 2 great years! And Mule for a wonderful profile, so glad to get to know you friend! And to Janie for an incredible glimpse of your amazing talent, thank you so much for sharing that with us. ;=
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi234.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fee210%2Fx33weirdo%2Fthank-you-3.jpg&hash=bf54d5e05cca10e0e618ede13eda714bd8331aba)
Thank you so much to everyone who has worked on TDS for the past two years.
I appreciate all the hard work you have done and dedication that you have for The Daily Sheet, and the members here who love reading it so much!
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HAPPY ANNIVERSARY TDS
And many, MANY returns of the day :)
Warm thanks to all the contributors, you do a great job.
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This week’s Question: What do these phrases have in common?
Evil olive
Bar crab
Was it a car or a cat I saw?
No lemons, no melon
Rise to vote, sir.
Easy one........they're all palindromes.
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Last Week: Name the US presidents who were elected to office
without winning the popular vote.
The answer: John Quincy Adams, Rutherford B. Hayes, Benjamin
Harrison and George W. Bush .
And what a stellar inspiring group they all were.
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That's pretty funny, Lyle!
And I'm sure everyone got a kick out of the computer jokes But as someone who has done/said all those stupid things, I ask for some compassion! About 15-16 years ago, I had to call in the service technician for the computer at work (this was just for work... no internet service... maybe that was BEFORE the internet?) because the monitor wouldn't come on. Before they sent someone out (it was 45 miles one way!) they ran me through the "have you moved it?" - "no" - "is it plugged in?" - "yes" - "is the surge protector plugged in AND turned on?" - "yes" - "well then, is the monitor turned on?" - "yes" routine. And when the guy got there it took him about a minute to see that the protector and the monitor cords were indeed plugged in and turned on BUT the monitor cord had come loose from the back of the damned thing.
Now, any time I have a problem and call my isp or web host or Apple, the first words out of my mouth are "I'm a complete idiot when it comes to computers so please have patience and speak English." To quote Kermit, "it's not easy being green!"
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Oh that's so funny!
I laughed until I cried reading some of those stories when I was getting the ones for TDS - but you know what they say about paybacks, then I spent 2 hours this weekend having BrokenOkie help me with things I couldn't figure out on my computer....photobucket...DCF settings, they could write one of those stories about me for sure!
I did think it was so funny that one women - about the computer being under a window, and her say "now that's a good point."
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This week’s Question: What do these phrases have in common?
Evil olive
Bar crab
Was it a car or a cat I saw?
No lemons, no melon
Rise to vote, sir.
Easy one........they're all palindromes.
You beat me to it.
Here's one of my favs.
A man, a plan, a canal, Panama.
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Congrats & Happy Anniv to TDS!
Many thanks to all who've kept it thriving, interesting, and as montezumae said, "essential reading" over the years.
I still always check it out first.
Good to see the Tech Team featured this issue! Bravo/a!!
Many thanks to all of you, as well, for your computer skills & hard work. (None of which I can understand :D.)
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You beat me to it.
Here's one of my favs.
A man, a plan, a canal, Panama.
And another one, supposedly what Napoleon said after his first deposition from power. Why he was speaking English has never yet been successfully determined.
"Able was I, ere I saw Elba"
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^^^^
LOL -- oh sure, he spoke English AND made a palendrome.
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A little late to the game, but:
Thanks to the mods for all they do....!
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MiralParis - what a great profile! I really enjoyed reading it and getting to know you a bit better :)
Another wonderful TDS guys! Thanks for all the hard work on it :)
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I can't believe my cat contributed to TDS!!!! It was so cute to see him there and such a surprise - thank you!!
Wonderful profile MiralParis - I loved reading it.
I am also very late in saying thank you thank you to all of you who have made and continue to make the Daily Sheet the success that it is. I appreciate all your work very much. ;D
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MiralParis, nice profile!
Other than BBM, what movie has impacted you the most? Why? I love Almost Famous. The music, the story, the acting are perfection. I love the Lester Bangs quote, “The only true currency in this bankrupt world... is what you share with someone else when you're uncool.”
That was on last night, it is SUCH a good movie!
And I see Reese and Atticus made the daily, yeaaaaa!
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I can't believe my cat contributed to TDS!!!! (snip)
LOL! :D
We know Alton is amazingly talented!
The Pets Thread is such a nice place to hang out. THX for featuring it and w/ such cuties!..Alton, Paddy, Dakota, and our hummingbird family.
I guess everyone must feel the same way about their fav dcf threads ;)!
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I just told Dakota's owner... who is not a member of the forum... about her appearing in the Daily Sheet and she was so impressed!
Dakota lives in Manhatten and sadly, this morning she got out of the dogpark where she goes at least once a day and was hit by a car. She is in intensive care with internal injuries at what Marna (her owner) says is the best animal hospital in the city. It's going to be a long night.
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Well it was a pleasure to feature the furry friends who are so important to us (Killersmom pointed us your way).
I am so sorry to here about Dakota, how terrible.
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Poor Dakota.
My thoughts and prayers are with him and his owner.
Get well, poochy-pup!
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Fun question: cute! answer: yup, that's my phone number!
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Well it was a pleasure to feature the furry friends who are so important to us (Killersmom pointed us your way).
I am so sorry to here about Dakota, how terrible.
A million thanks to Linda. That thread is wonderful.
Sending so many hugs and get well wishes to Dakota and her family.
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it didn't work for me with a UK phone number. It added another digit in the middle of my number. The other 6 numbers were correct tho!!!
BUT - when I added the last number of my area code it worked brilliantly!!!
Sal ;D
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I tried it with 1-800-FLOWERS and all I got was errors. :(
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Sadly, Dakota had to be put to sleep this morning. Marna, Marc and I appreciate everyone's concern and good wishes.
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^^^
That is way too sad. Condolences to her owner. :'(
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NYT Book Review: The Story of a Marriage
What we each create, since whatever is missing is filled in by our imagination, is the person we wish him to be. The less we know him, of course, the more we love him.
Hmmm...while I understand the author's intention with this line, I'd
prefer to think that is not necessarily true...that the less we know of
someone the more we would love them...
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Sadly, Dakota had to be put to sleep this morning. Marna, Marc and I appreciate everyone's concern and good wishes.
How very sad about Dakota, he was such a cute little dog. This must be a hard blow for all of you, so unexpected. I am truly sorry.
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Great profile Annabel!
What is the best piece of advice that you’ve ever receive?
Not to let anyone make me feel like I'm less than I am.
and those are words to live by!
See ya in the AI thread this week.
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Godiva (or Godgifu) (fl. 1040-1080) was an Anglo-Saxon noblewoman who, according to legend, rode naked through the streets of Coventry in England in order to gain a remission of the oppressive toll imposed by her husband on his tenants. The name "peeping Tom" for a voyeur comes from later versions of this legend in which a man named Tom watched her ride and was struck blind or dead.
Sal ;D
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Godgifu -- hey I like that. Godgifu chocolates. :D
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I have to tell you that when I read the Benoit Denizet-Lewis article about gay marriage in the New York Times it gave me the creeps (I read it before TDS profiled it - a friend put it in my inbox at work).
I am not so far removed from my radical feminist past that I still do not have some issues concerning the institution of marriage. I have known women who were battered and friends who have been cast aside as the 'newer model' wife came along. I have also several people who have gotten divorced as they got married early in life because they thought it was 'the thing to do' and made a bad choice.
Although I fully support marriage equality (much as I support the rights of LGBT people to enter the military and to become priests or ministers of their faith) I think we should enter decisions of this sort with considerable thought. Marriage is not a panacea. And I truly hope that (much as heterosexual teens have in the past) that gay youth do not feel compelled to get married - that they realize there are a variety of ways to live one's life. Being single does not equal being a failure - and if there is anything that being gay has taught me it is that we do not all need to live the same way.
I would also note that the article focused on men - I find this interesting as when same sex marriage occured in Oregon it was over 70% female:
http://www.oregon.gov/DHS/ph/chs/order/ssmarry.shtml#table1
And when same-sex marriages were being performed in San Francisco it was 57% female:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_California#Statistics
I have not been able to find statistics for same sex marriage in Massachusetts - but I would guess that the people in the article in question did not look like the majority of people getting married - either by gender or by age (not that the author was trying to make them typical).
However, I would like to thank you for posting the link to the article. It is certainly thought provoking.
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Marriage is certainly not an easy option, and it is not for everyone, but it is at least good news that this option can now be available to all, or at least a version of it.
A single life can be fun when one is young and fancy free, not so much fun in the older age bracket, when loneliness and insecurity can be a factor.
There are plenty of bad heterosexual marriages around in which the people concerned are burned out and disinterested. In the past there were certainly relationships based on fear and dependence.
It doesn't have to be that way though, with or without the piece of paper.
If two people come together as equals, with different contributions to make, there is every chance with love and trust and honesty, that those relationships can last for many years, maybe a lifetime.
I have been with my husband for 40 years, and I don't think we are either bored or boring. We are the closest of friends, trust each other implicitly, and have enormous fun together.
A few days ago Eric Patterson described his relationship with his partner, which has existed for many years, and sounded, with the obvious differences, very similar.
We are very lucky.
It doesn't happen to everyone, it is not for everyone, but even with the many pitfalls, the equality of opportunity must be a good thing.
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A single life can be fun when one is young and fancy free, not so much fun in the older age bracket, when loneliness and insecurity can be a factor.
This is a very common notion. I am single and have been for a while (thankfully - my ex has been through two marriages since me). I am not lonely (far from it - I have more than I can do) and I am not at all insecure.
Marriage is fine and I too am glad that it is an option for all. But I do not think that it is something to get involved in to keep from being alone - I'd suggest joining a club long before marriage to alleviate that. One would hope that people are happy in themselves before they involve another person in their life.
Regarding security - well, I would hope that we are all working on being strong by ourselves - that would help to be strong jointly in a marriage.
I would guess that not everyone can be happy and single - much like not everyone can be happy and married. Currently, however, there are more single people in the U.S. than there are married people - and this has been the case singe 2006:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/15/us/15census.html
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A single life can be fun when one is young and fancy free, not so much fun in the older age bracket, when loneliness and insecurity can be a factor.
This is a very common notion. I am single and have been for a while (thankfully - my ex has been through two marriages since me). I am not lonely (far from it - I have more than I can do) and I am not at all insecure.
Marriage is fine and I too am glad that it is an option for all. But I do not think that it is something to get involved in to keep from being alone - I'd suggest joining a club long before marriage to alleviate that. One would hope that people are happy in themselves before they involve another person in their life.
Regarding security - well, I would hope that we are all working on being strong by ourselves - that would help to be strong jointly in a marriage.
I would guess that not everyone can be happy and single - much like not everyone can be happy and married. Currently, however, there are more single people in the U.S. than there are married people - and this has been the case singe 2006:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/15/us/15census.html
I agree with much that you say, and anyone who gets married or arranges a stable partnership with someone for any other reason than that they cannot live without the other person is mad IMO.
As to the joining of two strong people, I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Marz what a great profile. I hope you get to watch Brokeback with you Mom.
My boys are early twenties, they did see the movie, but we didn't watch it together. I think it would be a nice movie to watch as a family!
See you in the threads, I will keep looking for more pics of Heath's girls!
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Nice profile, Marz, it's great to get to know you better :)
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Marz, I really enjoyed reading your profile! See you in the Diner. :-*
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Janjo and Michael, I enjoyed reading your discussion about the pros and contras of marriage or other living-together status.
I don't think that there are any recipes for either form of happiness, it depends very much on your mentality, personal strongness, longing for independence etc.
I still hope, however, to reach with my partner ONE DAY (before we die, hopefully) a legal status that is totally equal to that of heterosexuals in both countries we come from. France and Germany still deny us this status, which makes us feel discriminated, and that's what it is, as a fact: legal discrimination.
I don't care if the new, totally equal status will be called marriage, civil partnership or whatever. I simply would like to have the option. I can see why many men and women don't want this legal bound, I wish to be able to chose it, that's all.
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Ing, I had no idea that you did not have civil partneships in France and Germany, I thought, in my ignorance that it was EC wide. That is appalling. I do hope that you do get your wish soon.Whilst I really do know that marriage is not for everyone, having found your true soul mate, and wishing, but being unable to declare that publicly, and to give to each other the protection of the law as far as finances and property are concerned, and the even more important right to be next of kin, and to have rights if one or other of you is seriously ill, is disenfranchising you way past the point of reasonableness.
In any campaign to change the law, I will definitely be there with a placard.
:-* :-* To you and Mr Ing.
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(((janjo))) Merci for these encouraging words! :-*
(And certainly you mean "Mr S" and not Mr Ing! LOL)
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(We are together for almost 18 years now.)
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Of course I completely agree with this Ingy. I too look forward to a society of equality with regard to sexual orientation.
I also hope that people are able to be seen as equal and valuable members of society regardless of their marital status. Much like gay people are not less than heterosexual people, people who are single are in no way inferior to those in relationships.
And it is my hope that as we move forward that expectations for young people - of all orientations - will be such that they are seen as valuable in themselves - and not because of their relationships.
Janjo and Michael, I enjoyed reading your discussion about the pros and contras of marriage or other living-together status.
I don't think that there are any recipes for either form of happiness, it depends very much on your mentality, personal strongness, longing for independence etc.
I still hope, however, to reach with my partner ONE DAY (before we die, hopefully) a legal status that is totally equal to that of heterosexuals in both countries we come from. France and Germany still deny us this status, which makes us feel discriminated, and that's what it is, as a fact: legal discrimination.
I don't care if the new, totally equal status will be called marriage, civil partnership or whatever. I simply would like to have the option. I can see why many men and women don't want this legal bound, I wish to be able to chose it, that's all.
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(((janjo))) Merci for these encouraging words! :-*
(And certainly you mean "Mr S" and not Mr Ing! LOL)
Apologies to Mr S, I'm afraid I didn't know his name. I meant it with the greatest respect to you both though!
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(We are together for almost 18 years now.)
God bless you both! We will be married 30 years in November.........and yes you should have that choice!!
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(((janjo))) Merci for these encouraging words! :-*
(And certainly you mean "Mr S" and not Mr Ing! LOL)
Apologies to Mr S, I'm afraid I didn't know his name. I meant it with the greatest respect to you both though!
I was only kiddin'. No apologies needed. You are very sweet. Very! :-*
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(We are together for almost 18 years now.)
God bless you both! We will be married 30 years in November.........and yes you should have that choice!!
Thanks so much, Lola! :-* :'(
Means a lot to me.
And for us, it's November too !! :D
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The NYT young gay marrieds article made me think back to the late 80s when the Quaker meeting I attended in Boston went through a year of debating whether to conduct same sex marriage ceremonies (which would have no legal status at that time). Decisions in the Society of Friends are made by consensus so it took a lot of "threshing meetings" to come to a positive decision. Anyway, there were quite a few gay men and lesbians in the meeting and I was surprised when a year went by and there were no requests. Then one day, I got a lift home from the grocery store with a lesbian from the meeting and she said "Guess what, we had a request for clearness for marriage [a Quaker term]" and she told me the name of the two women, who were in their early twenties. I paused in shock and burst out "But they're too young to get married!" She laughed and said "That's what I said!"
They did get married and everyone said how moving it was (I had left for Europe by then). Well, 10 years later I was in Boston for a visit and met the woman who'd given me the ride. I asked about that couple and they had split up. :-\
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Well, straight married couples split up all the time. In France, close to two thirds almost, by now. In other countries, average is more than 50 per cent.
:-\
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I know. Not one of my younger daughter's friends' parents are together. They all think our family's a bit odd.
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You're a bunch of weirdos... ;D ;)
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Ing, I had no idea that you did not have civil partneships in France and Germany, I thought, in my ignorance that it was EC wide. That is appalling. I do hope that you do get your wish soon.Whilst I really do know that marriage is not for everyone, having found your true soul mate, and wishing, but being unable to declare that publicly, and to give to each other the protection of the law as far as finances and property are concerned, and the even more important right to be next of kin, and to have rights if one or other of you is seriously ill, is disenfranchising you way past the point of reasonableness.
In any campaign to change the law, I will definitely be there with a placard.
:-* :-* To you and Mr Ing.
Congratulations to Ing and Mr S.!!
And I agree with Ing, Michael and janjo.
All your points are very eloquently made for a fairer society, where people are valued for themselves, and not for their sexual orientation, marital status, or whether they have found their "significant other" or not.
And yes, janjo, unfortunately, it's not EC-wide.
I think, so far, in the European Union, only the UK, Spain and the Netherlands same-sex partnerships are recognised by law.
Or perhaps a few more countries? (they escape me right now).
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The NYT young gay marrieds article made me think back to the late 80s when the Quaker meeting I attended in Boston went through a year of debating whether to conduct same sex marriage ceremonies (which would have no legal status at that time). Decisions in the Society of Friends are made by consensus so it took a lot of "threshing meetings" to come to a positive decision. Anyway, there were quite a few gay men and lesbians in the meeting and I was surprised when a year went by and there were no requests. Then one day, I got a lift home from the grocery store with a lesbian from the meeting and she said "Guess what, we had a request for clearness for marriage [a Quaker term]" and she told me the name of the two women, who were in their early twenties. I paused in shock and burst out "But they're too young to get married!" She laughed and said "That's what I said!"
They did get married and everyone said how moving it was (I had left for Europe by then). Well, 10 years later I was in Boston for a visit and met the woman who'd given me the ride. I asked about that couple and they had split up. :-\
oh yes, I knew someone like this too, a few years ago my step-daughters attended the wedding of a friend of theirs to another girl. Today they are all in their late twenties -- none of them are near marriage --
and yes, our reaction to the wedding all those years ago was "They are too young!!" ;D
and -- I don't think the marriage lasted a full year. Splitting up that early is a blessing, I guess, whether with a man or woman (and before kids :o )
Actually I got married too young too. That's why I have a daughter 27 and step-daughters (2nd marriage)
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((freetraveller)) ;)
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Of course I completely agree with this Ingy. I too look forward to a society of equality with regard to sexual orientation.
I also hope that people are able to be seen as equal and valuable members of society regardless of their marital status. Much like gay people are not less than heterosexual people, people who are single are in no way inferior to those in relationships.
And it is my hope that as we move forward that expectations for young people - of all orientations - will be such that they are seen as valuable in themselves - and not because of their relationships.
Janjo and Michael, I enjoyed reading your discussion about the pros and contras of marriage or other living-together status.
I don't think that there are any recipes for either form of happiness, it depends very much on your mentality, personal strongness, longing for independence etc.
I still hope, however, to reach with my partner ONE DAY (before we die, hopefully) a legal status that is totally equal to that of heterosexuals in both countries we come from. France and Germany still deny us this status, which makes us feel discriminated, and that's what it is, as a fact: legal discrimination.
I don't care if the new, totally equal status will be called marriage, civil partnership or whatever. I simply would like to have the option. I can see why many men and women don't want this legal bound, I wish to be able to chose it, that's all.
I completely agree with both of you as well. It is my hope that one day all couples, my son and his partner included, should they choose to do so, be allowed to marry (to be granted equal rights under the law) regardless of gender. That everyone should have the right to make that choice is something that should not be denied.
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I completely agree with both of you as well. It is my hope that one day all couples, my son and his partner included, should they choose to do so, be allowed to marry (to be granted equal rights under the law) regardless of gender. That everyone should have the right to make that choice is something that should not be denied.
I agree completely...and it would be nice if we got to a point where single people were not thought of as broken, pathetic or nutters too.... ;) :D That would make it easier for people to make more informed choices as to whether or not it is time to move in together, get married, etc....
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I completely agree with both of you as well. It is my hope that one day all couples, my son and his partner included, should they choose to do so, be allowed to marry (to be granted equal rights under the law) regardless of gender. That everyone should have the right to make that choice is something that should not be denied.
I agree completely...and it would be nice if we got to a point where single people were not thought of as broken, pathetic or nutters too.... ;) :D That would make it easier for people to make more informed choices as to whether or not it is time to move in together, get married, etc....
Of course. I completely agree!
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it would be nice if we got to a point where single people were not thought of as broken, pathetic or nutters too.... ;) :D That would make it easier for people to make more informed choices as to whether or not it is time to move in together, get married, etc....
Absolutely!
Btw, most of my friends are single, and they are certainly much "less nutty" or pathetic than many people in so-called relationships.
Again, there are no recipes. But what we need is choices. Legal choices, and a variety of equally respected forms of living one's life.
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it would be nice if we got to a point where single people were not thought of as broken, pathetic or nutters too.... ;) :D That would make it easier for people to make more informed choices as to whether or not it is time to move in together, get married, etc....
Absolutely!
Btw, most of my friends are single, and they are certainly much "less nutty" or pathetic than many people in so-called relationships.
Again, there are no recipes. But what we need is choices. Legal choices, and a variety of equally respected forms of living one's life.
Yes!
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Re. CityBayJohn on BBM Foundation
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi273.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj224%2Fminio931%2Fycnytextbigjpg.jpg&hash=415d89b98e89728a308ad949f3961b1a3ebd7745)
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I enjoy reading things I don't know about, like the article linked in TDS
today:
http://www.nssa.us/journals/2007-29-1/2007-29-1-23.htm
But I don't think I'm being too anal to insist on a little more accuracy from an author when complete inaccuracies are not refuted:
Even some Latino groups complained about the movie. However, their concern was over the fact that in the short story Ennis Del Mar was Latino as was his wife as well as the ranch foreman that initially hired the two young men to herd sheep. All three roles in the film version went to Caucasians. “There are 40 million Latinos in the United States, and their numbers are growing faster than any other group,” noted one such Latino group. “Every sector of the Entertainment industry says it wants to ‘reach’ us. Given that, the lack of Latinos in a movie about Latinos is inexcusable, and it speaks to how far Hollywood has to go.” (18)
I've heard this before (Ennis, Alma and Aguirre are Latino according to the short story? Huh?) and not refuting it only gives credence to it.
Then he states something untrue and makes you wonder if he has even seen the film:
Another cartoon, titled "Brokeback Capitol Hill," has one cowboy (labeled as a lobbyist) dancing with another (a politician) with the first stating, "You dance with them that brung you, congressman!" To which the other replies, "God I wish I knew how to quit you!" Both are lines from the actual movie.
Not to mention spelling mistakes:
Leath Hedger
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This week’s Question: Who has hosted Saturday Night Live more times than anyone else?
I have a few choices, but I am going to guess that it is Steve Martin.
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^^^^^^
I was thinking Steve Martin as well. We'll see if we're right.
*******
As for Ennis possibly being Latino -- that was an observation also made by Eric Patterson in On Brokeback Mountain, because of Ennis's last name, del Mar. It is just as Latino as Aguirre's last name.
However, Annie doesn't really write Ennis as a Latino. He doesn't remember his parents speaking Spanish. He doesn't identify with the Basques.
And Alma's last name is Beers. I believe that is probably a German name. If not, it is for sure not a Latino name. "Alma" is a Spanish word (soul or spirit) but Alma in the story has freckles on her arms, she is not depicted as Latina.
In the book club discussion On Brokeback Mountain we talked about this -- that if Ennis were Hispanic, he would have another reason to feel like he had to prove his masculinity. But still, we just didn't feel him to be a hispanic character.
My favorite theory is that he is descended from the Black Irish, somewhat like Eamon de Valera, hero in the early 20th century fighting against the English, who eventually became President of Ireland. :)
******
as for the error of "both lines are from the movie" -- that is unforgivable. :o I hope you will write to the publication.
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Not to mention spelling mistakes:
Leath Hedger
And the mistake happens twice in the article.
He mispells Gyllenhaal as 'Gyllenhall' 3 times.
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The name Beers is most likely of British or Dutch origin:
Beers Surname Origin
Local
From Beer, a town in Dorsetshire, England; so called from bere, grain, barley; a fruitful place. In the Dutch, beer signifies a bear, a boar.
http://www.searchforancestors.com/surnames/origin/b/beers.php (http://www.searchforancestors.com/surnames/origin/b/beers.php)
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a bear? :o :o That's stuff for Symbolism and Imagery
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a bear? :o :o That's stuff for Symbolism and Imagery
I'm not touching that one.
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In German, "Beer" means berry.
(Beer is Bier).
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Beere means berry.
!
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Oh yeah, right. I was thinking of the combining form, like Himbeer.
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Even then (sorry to be so pedantisch!) it can only be written without an e if used in a COMPOSED noun,
like Himbeersirup, Erdbeerkuchen, Blaubeerstrauch.
The fruit itself ALWAYS ends with an e.
;)
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You're right, Ing! :-* :-* :-*
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a bear? :o :o That's stuff for Symbolism and Imagery
So,you could say that Ennis came on a Beer --
(I can't believe you guys left that one just lying out there...)
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I was just waiting to see who would post it first.
Like I said, I ain't touching that one.
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Cute, the S and i stuff...... :D
This week's question: Christopher Walken? Its either him or Alec Baldwin. Or Steve Martin.
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a bear? :o :o That's stuff for Symbolism and Imagery
So,you could say that Ennis came on a Beer --
(I can't believe you guys left that one just lying out there...)
:D :D :D
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a bear? :o :o That's stuff for Symbolism and Imagery
So,you could say that Ennis came on a Beer --
(I can't believe you guys left that one just lying out there...)
How did we EVER not think of this! LOL!
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:D :D :D
I thought John was making a reference to the term bear which I've seen used here to describe a type of gay man. So many possibilities, --
as long as it is a Wyoming bear. there is no evidence the bear was Chilean or Basque.
a bear? :o :o That's stuff for Symbolism and Imagery
I'm not touching that one.
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So,you could say that Ennis came on a Beer --
(I can't believe you guys left that one just lying out there...)
I was tempted.... :D
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well, michael, I"m not surprised. 8)
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a bear? :o :o That's stuff for Symbolism and Imagery
So,you could say that Ennis came on a Beer --
(I can't believe you guys left that one just lying out there...)
:D :D :D
Hate to toot my own horn (yeah, really hate that!) but I used that line in a photo cap a year ago.
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Cute, the S and i stuff...... :D
This week's question: Christopher Walken? Its either him or Alec Baldwin. Or Steve Martin.
My first guess was Alec Baldwin. He's hosted a bunch of times.
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Thank you Alma for one of the best TDS profiles ever. It was a wonderful read. :)
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Hello!
A big fan of TDS here! :)
I just wanted to bring a little bit of good news. As a resident of south Florida, I live next door to Miami, home of the cuban exile community. One of the most significant news on today's Miami Herald (yes, Jake's uncle is editor in chief) is the first ever gathering of openly gay activists in this communist regime, ever since Fidel stepped out, everything is opening up. But the heartwarming and joyful part of this story, for me, was that, last friday, as a celebration of the "International Day Against Homophobia", the goverment public TV station showed Brokeback Mountain to the entire country.
Sorry if this was posted already, I thought you guys might want to mention this on the next TDS. Down here in south Fla. and for all the gays & lesbians living in communist Cuba it is an unprecedented event. (wow, no more hiding!)
http://www.miamiherald.com/915/story/537272.html
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Thank you Alma for one of the best TDS profiles ever. It was a wonderful read. :)
What Tam said! Good to know and to hear more of you, Alma! ;)
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Hello!
A big fan of TDS here! :)
I just wanted to bring a little bit of good news. As a resident of south Florida, I live next door to Miami, home of the cuban exile community. One of the most significant news on today's Miami Herald (yes, Jake's uncle is editor in chief) is the first ever gathering of openly gay activists in this communist regime, ever since Fidel stepped out, everything is opening up. But the heartwarming and joyful part of this story, for me, was that, last friday, as a celebration of the "International Day Against Homophobia", the goverment public TV station showed Brokeback Mountain to the entire country.
Sorry if this was posted already, I thought you guys might want to mention this on the next TDS. Down here in south Fla. and for all the gays & lesbians living in communist Cuba it is an unprecedented event. (wow, no more hiding!)
http://www.miamiherald.com/915/story/537272.html
I just saw this story today..... very good news!
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Agree, Sue! Thanks pattieono...
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It made me think of "Before Night Falls"
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Hello!
A big fan of TDS here! :)
I just wanted to bring a little bit of good news. As a resident of south Florida, I live next door to Miami, home of the cuban exile community. One of the most significant news on today's Miami Herald (yes, Jake's uncle is editor in chief) is the first ever gathering of openly gay activists in this communist regime, ever since Fidel stepped out, everything is opening up. But the heartwarming and joyful part of this story, for me, was that, last friday, as a celebration of the "International Day Against Homophobia", the goverment public TV station showed Brokeback Mountain to the entire country.
Sorry if this was posted already, I thought you guys might want to mention this on the next TDS. Down here in south Fla. and for all the gays & lesbians living in communist Cuba it is an unprecedented event. (wow, no more hiding!)
http://www.miamiherald.com/915/story/537272.html
I really feel like we are in the midst of the winds shifting on this. Not that there isn't still much work to be done against homophobia. But as I research stories for TDS there is more and more encouraging news. And our young people seem to be strong supporters generally, helping to issue in change. I just really feel like there has been a rather pointed change over the past couple years, maybe one that could be traced back to Dec. 2005 when a hallmark movie came out.
Thanks for the story lead!
Dawn
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Hello!
A big fan of TDS here! :)
I just wanted to bring a little bit of good news. As a resident of south Florida, I live next door to Miami, home of the cuban exile community. One of the most significant news on today's Miami Herald (yes, Jake's uncle is editor in chief) is the first ever gathering of openly gay activists in this communist regime, ever since Fidel stepped out, everything is opening up. But the heartwarming and joyful part of this story, for me, was that, last friday, as a celebration of the "International Day Against Homophobia", the goverment public TV station showed Brokeback Mountain to the entire country.
Sorry if this was posted already, I thought you guys might want to mention this on the next TDS. Down here in south Fla. and for all the gays & lesbians living in communist Cuba it is an unprecedented event. (wow, no more hiding!)
http://www.miamiherald.com/915/story/537272.html
I really feel like we are in the midst of the winds shifting on this. Not that there isn't still much work to be done against homophobia. But as I research stories for TDS there is more and more encouraging news. And our young people seem to be strong supporters generally, helping to issue in change. I just really feel like there has been a rather pointed change over the past couple years, maybe one that could be traced back to Dec. 2005 when a hallmark movie came out.
Thanks for the story lead!
Dawn
I was thinking exactly that same thing! I think that time is really starting to show the real repercusions of the movie!
But.......how long until they have the guts to show BBM here in US, on PBS? :-X
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We didn't have time to get the story in yesterday's TDS, but I submitted this morning so it should be in Tuesday's edition.
If anyone has more information on the showing in Cuba, please PM Dawn (Stillearning) or me.
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It made me think of "Before Night Falls"
I thought exactly the same...
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I had a feeling you would.
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Javier...
*sighs*
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yes............ *sighs*
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And the incredibly fine soundtrack !!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Before_Night_Falls
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Thanks! Not much there.........
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(But a first step for information.)
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I quite agree. It's a good start.
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Thank you Alma for one of the best TDS profiles ever. It was a wonderful read. :)
I have to agree, Tammy. I always look forward to the profiles, and Alma's was a wonderful one!
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Loved the profile of Alma..
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Thank you Alma for one of the best TDS profiles ever. It was a wonderful read. :)
What Tam said! Good to know and to hear more of you, Alma! ;)
What Tammy & Ing & others said :D
What an incredibly interesting profile, alma!
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I really enjoyed reading your profile Alma!
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Alma, I enjoyed your profile. Plus I always feel better knowing you're up there in Cinci taking care of Obama business while I do my best with the other volunteers down here in KY!
- Lydia
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Folks, Below is story about good things happening in Cuba, including a showing in prime time of BBM:
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/05/cuba.html#more
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Hinny. (Answer to today's question.)
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Congrats again to the team for continuing to produce reading-worthy TDSs. Additional thanks for expanding the content beyond purely BBM & Gay centric editorial segments, makes it much more interesting and less blinkered.
Hugs
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Bless actor David Trimble (featured in yesterday's TDS), and what he had to say about Ang Lee, Rodrigo Prieto, Heath and Jake! :)
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Great to read The Basque/David Trimble interview!
Esp since there's not much new BBM-related info coming out anymore.
YayYayYayYay for TDS & staff, as always!!
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Much thanks for your kind words about TDS.
I loved reading how hard David Trimble went after that part!
And Trigger Hippie - it's really good to know that you like the news pieces that are more generalized. And if anyone has ideas, just let us know.
Thanks,
Dawn
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The interview with the Basque is fabulous. Yet another example of how everybody gave the best of themselves, and more, to BBM.
Doesn't David Trimble seem to be as endearing and funny in RL as in character ? :D
Thank you Lauren for doing this interview so masterfully, and TDS team, for bringing it to our attention.
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Much thanks for your kind words about TDS.
I loved reading how hard David Trimble went after that part!
And Trigger Hippie - it's really good to know that you like the news pieces that are more generalized. And if anyone has ideas, just let us know.
Thanks,
Dawn
Yes Dawn, great stuff, I understand why the GBLT centric focus is important here, however its nice to get some "exclusive" news rather than always the "inclusive" reports
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Doesn't David Trimble seem to be as endearing and funny in RL as in character ? :D
One of our Canadian members likened him to their version of Nathan Lane!
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Now I'll have to look up Nathan Lane - ignorant me ::)
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Congrats Jenny, very nice profile, I'm glad I read it. :)
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What MM said - interesting and intriguing profile, Jenny! ;)
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I really enjoyed reading your profile Jenny!
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Monument remembers gay victims of Nazis
May 27, 2008 - 10:54PM
http://news.theage.com.au/world/monument-remembers-gay-victims-of-nazis-20080527-2irg.html][url]http://news.theage.com.au/world/monument-remembers-gay-victims-of-nazis-20080527-2irg.html (http://[url)[/url]
A monument with footage of two men kissing was unveiled in Berlin in memory of the thousands of homosexuals persecuted, tortured and murdered by the Nazi regime between 1933 and 1945.
The memorial, near the Brandenburg Gate and a stone's throw from the main Holocaust memorial, consists of an imposing, grey concrete slab around four metres high.
At eye-level inside the monument, designed by Norwegian-Danish duo Ingar Dragset and Michael Elmgreen, is a gap containing a television screen showing two men kissing.
On the facade is a text detailing the suffering of gays under Hitler…
The monument also pays homage to those elsewhere suffering a similar plight, recalling that in many countries homosexuals still face discrimination and persecution, Culture Minister Bernd Neumann said.
"If today, in 2008, 63 years after the end of the National Socialist era, we unveil a monument in the middle of the capital to homosexuals killed ... it is not only in memory of the horrors of the past," Neumann said.
"It is also first and foremost an expression of our conviction that in our country there is no place for the discrimination of homosexuals, of people who think and live differently," he said.
…
Attending the unveiling of the monument were also Berlin's openly gay mayor Klaus Wowereit, as well as representatives of Germany's Jewish and Roma communities.
Absent though were any survivors.
The last known one - Pierre Seel, a Frenchman deported in 1941 aged 17 - died in November 2005. In his memoirs he described how his first love, 18-year-old Jo, was torn apart by dogs in front of other prisoners.
Homosexuality remained illegal until 1969 and was only formally decriminalised in Germany in 1994. For many years, the persecution of gays during the Nazi era was swept under the carpet.
"Homosexuals were excluded from compensation laws in the 1950s because it was thought at the time that they had been persecuted as criminals," said Guenter Dworek from the Federation of Gays and Lesbians in Germany.
"The few who managed to receive compensation got it late."
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This week’s Question: According to the Bureau of Justice statistics, what is the most common form of vandalism?
I am going to guess the answer is graffiti.
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Here's an image of part of the Shoah memorial:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi135.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq135%2Ftalkstocoyotes%2FGayShoahmemorialBerlin.jpg&hash=2cdf4b309d64458087931fc3f0b16fe1e15254a8)
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There has been a scandal concerning the official invitation card. ^^^^^^
It showed two men kissing, the same kissig men you can see in an "endless video clip" inside the monument.
Obviously, although part of the building/artwork, this was way too explicit for the conservative party (Merkel's CDU). It disappeared from the card, the invitations were sent out without any illustration.
The architects remarked with noticism, this simple and grotesque event underlines even more the importance of such a monument and not only its historical, but also current implications, in Berlin.
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This week’s Question: According to the Bureau of Justice statistics, what is the most common form of vandalism?
Littering.
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Thanks BCJ for the Brokeback in the classroom feature.
This is a question for my US cousins - is the short story Billy Budd by Herman Melville on US curricula?
- why do I ask this - read on -
It has strong homoerotic elements and was made into an opera by well known gay composer Benjamin Britten. In fact, a bit like BBM, I have only just read the story, having seen a very good performance of the opera in London a couple of years ago.
The interesting thing may be where I happened by chance to find the book, it was a in a student bookshop in Guangzhou, China, I guess that means it's used in the teaching of English (not gender studies or whatever) - but the introduction, by one Cyrus R K Patell (a Prof in NY) expains quite clearly that this short story is in part about homosexuality. I'm fascinated by the thought that this book, a very good read, is probably being read by Chinese language students.
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We did read it in high school back in New Orleans, along with Hale's Man Without a Country. But back then (mid-60's) no mention was made of homosexuality or any homoerotic element in it.
It was considered daring back then even to read the words "God damn the United States" in the latter book, in a Catholic high school, no less.
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Thanks BCJ for the Brokeback in the classroom feature.
This is a question for my US cousins - is the short story Billy Budd by Herman Melville on US curricula?
You bet! Billy Budd is a very popular story, and I've found it listed in law, philosophy, literature and film classes at several hundred high schools and universities. It's one of the few stories I actually read completely, more than once, in college.
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Thanks, that's very interesting. I only heard about it through the opera but it's a gripping read.
But then, too, I didn't do 'arts' subjects after the age of 16, so I don't really know if it's a standard text in the UK for some third level courses?
I could hardly put it down even though I knew what was going to happen. I did try last year to locate the film with Terence Stamp as Billy, but it wasn't on DVD then, has anyone seen it, and it is any good?
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I've seen the movie probably a dozen times. One of my favorites.
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I've seen the movie probably a dozen times. One of my favorites.
oh, OK, maybe it is on DVD then - I was hoping it was good!
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It is on DVD. B&N shows March 2007 for the release date. It's listed, but not in stock, on Amazon. Target also has it listed online here.
http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?r=1&EAN=85391108016&ourl=DVD%2FBilly%2DBudd%2FRobert%2DRyan (http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?r=1&EAN=85391108016&ourl=DVD%2FBilly%2DBudd%2FRobert%2DRyan)
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Thx John I will check that out...
later..
um - as I feared - that DVD is only available in Region 1 format, i.e. no good in the UK. And there doesn't seem to be another one listed?? Anyway thx, and it's very good to know it's worth seeing.
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Thank you for posting a picture of Orangy in TDS! He looks so droll in that shot!
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Loved seeing Orangy, and Killer & Blitz as well, in TDS!
Thanks for featuring the very fun Pets Thread again!
Appreciate all the updated info about the situation in CA (I've had too much RL to keep up w/ the news like I'd like).
Appreciate TDS!
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The Guardian Interview with Annie Proulx was fascinating. I was not at all surprised to see that she mentions Thomas Hardy, the writer, who to me, she has the most in common. That wry, dark, thread that runs through her work seems to me to have enormous echoes of Hardy. The countryman/woman's fatalism, and closeness to matters of life and death is expressed similarly in both of their writings.
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Thanks for pointing this out, Janjo, I am a longtime fan of Hardy's poetry, but i never saw a connection. He was always writing about lost love, chances missed, the permanence of place agaist the impermanence of people, and suchlike themes. All rooted in a very strong sense of rural life.
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As a gay reader, I found much to identify with in novels like Jude the Obscure and [ii]Tess of the D'Urbervilles[/i]. It's ages since I read them and I don't have my copies here. I remember finding them as devastating as Brokeback Mountain.
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That's another very interesting parallel I never drew. And I've forgotten the details of his plots - but my hubby and I saw together the film o Jude the Obscure, with Christopher Eccleston and Kate Winslet, and came out stunned.
And the poem
The Phantom
Queer are the ways of a man I know:
He comes and stands
In a careworn craze,
And looks at the sands
And the seaward haze
With moveless hands
And face and gaze,
Then turns to go...
And what does he see when he gazes so?
They say he sees as an instant thing
More clear than to-day,
A sweet soft scene
That once was in play
By that briny green;
Yes, notes alway
Warm, real, and keen,
What his back years bring -
A phantom of his own figuring.
Of this vision of his they might say more:
Not only there
Does he see this sight,
But everywhere
In his brain - day, night,
As if on the air
It were drawn rose bright -
Yea, far from that shore
Does he carry this vision of heretofore:
A ghost-girl-rider. And though, toil-tried,
He withers daily,
Time touches her not,
But she still rides gaily
In his rapt thought
On that shagged and shaly
Atlantic spot,
And as when first eyed
Draws rein and sings to the swing of the tide.
(the song by Finzi set to these words is really haunting)
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New Annie interview
http://www.redorbit.com/news/entertainment/1411525/the_richness_of_nearly_empty_places/
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Thank you for the reminder of how different it is to be a creative writer and a reader/consumer of such writing. (And I am pleased to see her enthusiasm for the Dalkey Archive Press and its Irish connections.)
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Students Don't Give Up on The Laramie Project
By BayCityJohn
"Students from John Burroughs High School in Burbank, Calif. are finally premiering their production of The Laramie Project after their principal banned the play from being performed on campus. According to Burroughs’ drama teacher Scott Baily, Principal Emilio Urioste Jr said the play 'would tear this community apart;'" this from advocategenq.com.
Thanks for this article, John. I have to say, the principal thinks a staging of this show
would tear the community apart? What decade is this man living in? I might believe that quote if it came from West Virginia or something, but Burbank, California? Quite surprising. Doesn't the principal know what kids look at on the internet every day? I think they need a new principal. But it also goes to show you why we are nervous about the gay marriage proposition on the fall ballot. If a principal
in the city of Burbank, California believes a play like Laramie Project will tear the
community apart...
"The students did not give up on the production despite their principal's opinion. The school’s Gay Straight Alliance won a $500 California Teachers Assistant Grant, secured a venue, the Colony Theatre, and they even got the show’s creators, Leigh Fondakowski and Kelli Simpkins to fly out and help the cast for the final days of rehearsal."
And Bravo to the students for plowing ahead and ignoring this idiocy. That venue they
have come up with (the Colony Theatre) is a terrific place and not at all near Burbank.
The phrase a child shall lead them comes to mind and today's TDS quote of the
day sure applies to these students: Knowing is not enough; we must apply.
Willing is not enough; we must do. Kudos to all of them!
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^^^^
My alma mater.
"All hail Burroughs High School, to thee we will ever sing..."
;D
good for the students.
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As a gay reader, I found much to identify with in novels like Jude the Obscure and [ii]Tess of the D'Urbervilles[/i]. It's ages since I read them and I don't have my copies here. I remember finding them as devastating as Brokeback Mountain.
Jude The Obscure is one of those novels I can't reread - too painful.
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^^^^
My alma mater.
"All hail Burroughs High School, to thee we will ever sing..."
Ellen! Really? Would you have thought a principal would think like
this nowadays--I realize your opibiob would be from your own time there,
but it seems really off to me a school in Burbank would be THAT upset over this...?
Just curious.
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Hard to say, Lyle.
Actually, I think the drama teacher -- if I have his name right, used to teach at Sacred Heart Academy up in La Crescenta, where my daughter went to HS. ;)
sounds like maybe the principal believes he is erring on the side of keeping "mature" subjects out of the school.
But in this case common sense lost out, in his initial decision. ::)
ETA: "tear the community apart" -- the principal may have worries of dealing with different cultures -- some who are more progressive (like the drama teacher) and some others who are retro, conservative, religious... :(
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Thanks, Ellen!
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As a gay reader, I found much to identify with in novels like Jude the Obscure and [ii]Tess of the D'Urbervilles[/i]. It's ages since I read them and I don't have my copies here. I remember finding them as devastating as Brokeback Mountain.
Jude The Obscure is one of those novels I can't reread - too painful.
True.
But this novel came also to MY mind, immediately after having seen BBM = a somewhat similar tone, dark colours, despair, brilliant heavy language, nature and landscape metaphors, inescapability...
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As a gay reader, I found much to identify with in novels like Jude the Obscure and [ii]Tess of the D'Urbervilles[/i]. It's ages since I read them and I don't have my copies here. I remember finding them as devastating as Brokeback Mountain.
Jude The Obscure is one of those novels I can't reread - too painful.
True.
But this novel came also to MY mind, immediately after having seen BBM = a somewhat similar tone, dark colours, despair, brilliant heavy language, nature and landscape metaphors, inescapability...
- and you know his fictional Christminster is really Oxford, Ingy?
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As a gay reader, I found much to identify with in novels like Jude the Obscure and [ii]Tess of the D'Urbervilles[/i]. It's ages since I read them and I don't have my copies here. I remember finding them as devastating as Brokeback Mountain.
Jude The Obscure is one of those novels I can't reread - too painful.
True.
But this novel came also to MY mind, immediately after having seen BBM = a somewhat similar tone, dark colours, despair, brilliant heavy language, nature and landscape metaphors, inescapability...
- and you know his fictional Christminster is really Oxford, Ingy?
Jude could see, and long for, "the lights of Christminster" and just at the moment, so can we.........................
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- and you know his fictional Christminster is really Oxford, Ingy?
yep I had heard about that... ;)
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Is this old news?
Brokeback Mountain opera being written
http://www.boston.com/ae/music/articles/2008/06/06/in_50_years_as_a_composer_no_compromise/
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Yes it's old news, but it's nice to hear that he is still working on the opera.
Thanks for the link. It's the first time I've read anything about it since the first press release back in Sept. 2007.
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I find it hard to believe that NO photo cap was deemed fit to be highlighted in the Saturday, June 7, edition . . . ???
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Oh there are always great photo Caps! But as we are trying to make TDS a bit more concise and stream-lined, so that its production isn't quite as much work for the team, there is less room. And where as photo Caps are featured twice a week, Life through the Lens (and the beautiful pictures there) aren't featured nearly as frequently - so it was a way to highlight that work too. But Photo Caps in TDS aren't going anywhere, and it truly wasn't that there weren't good ones, it was just a way to keep the issue compact and give Life through the Lens a nod it deserves from TDS.
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Thanks for explaining the process . . .
Bob
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Yes it's old news, but it's nice to hear that he is still working on the opera.
Thanks for the link. It's the first time I've read anything about it since the first press release back in Sept. 2007.
Here's another link, from Sunday - June 8, 2008 - New York Observer and AP:
http://www.observer.com/2008/i-brokeback-mountain-i-opera-coming-new-york
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Thanks for including the candle site link again. Maybe it does nothing beyond giving us a place to express our feelings for Heath but it still feels soothing to do it. It still seems so utterly unreal that this beautiful man, who breathed life into Ennis and who tore our hearts open, is gone from us.
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You're welcome ~ gnash suggested it; we all still grieve with you.
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This week’s Question: Are these all real phobias? arachibutyrophobia, alliumphobia, chrematophobia. For those that are, what are they the fear of?
Yes, all are real phobias - irrational fear of respectively, peanut butter sticking to the roof of the mouth, (a rational fear among vampires at least) garlic, and money.
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From the Philadelphia Inquirer
Charles Wuorinen Talks About His Brokeback Mountain Opera, Music
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.baycityforums.com%2Fimages%2Fimages%2FCW.jpg&hash=b9fa6647371ac02bfdb76156ab06b2b5d8479fbe)
American composer Charles Wuorinen (whose photo as a boy, from his website, was just too wonderful to pass up) has been commissioned by New York City Opera to write a work based on Annie Proulx’s Brokeback Mountain, the company announced. Obviously it's early in the game for firm answers, but we prodded the 70-year-old composer Monday for a few clues to what will be heard when the work arrives on stage in the spring of 2013.
Why did this project appeal to you?
Well, it has the potential to be a very dramatic thing – operatic doomed love and tragedy, the conflict between love and duty if you will. It’s just the basic material out of which many operas and tragedies can be made. It’s just that the circumstances are updated to our time.
Have you done any work on it yet?
We don’t yet know whether Annie Proulx will do the libretto, so I haven’t done anything directly. We have had a few preliminary discussions and I have a number of other works to get out of the way. I see starting in earnest beginning in 2009.
What will determine whether Proulx does the libretto?
It’s a question of time. We are all very busy. I don’t want to speak for her. I think she wants to, but there may be practical considerations that may get in the way.
More: http://blogs.phillynews.com/inquirer/ArtsWatch/2008/06/brokeback_mountain_the_opera_1.html (http://blogs.phillynews.com/inquirer/ArtsWatch/2008/06/brokeback_mountain_the_opera_1.html)
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That Save PMs is a fantastic new feature. I had about 40 I couldn't bear to part with and was too lazy to print out. Now I have them saved and deleted everything in my In box. Thanks John!
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Loved reading the winterbird profile today! ;)
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So is the Tuesday June 12th heading supposed to be a joke? I read all the stuff I hadn't read before, thinking I must a missed Tuesday's Daily Sheet... really confused me because I was SURE I hadn't. And then I tried to scroll down to Saturday June 14th Daily Sheet... but there was no scroll left on the page. So I scrolled up and then back down... I'm on dial up and sometimes it takes a while for the full page to load... but there still wasn't anything after Tuesday the 12th. Then I got to thinking yesterday was the 13th and it was Friday, so the 12th couldn't a been the 12th. And one thing led to another until I finally figured it out. Yeah, I'm a little slow today... it must be the cool weather... here it is 1:30 and only 73 degrees. Just can't handle it!
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I loved your profile winterbird. Thank you. What an interesting life you lead!
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So is the Tuesday June 12th heading supposed to be a joke? I read all the stuff I hadn't read before, thinking I must a missed Tuesday's Daily Sheet... really confused me because I was SURE I hadn't. And then I tried to scroll down to Saturday June 14th Daily Sheet... but there was no scroll left on the page. So I scrolled up and then back down... I'm on dial up and sometimes it takes a while for the full page to load... but there still wasn't anything after Tuesday the 12th. Then I got to thinking yesterday was the 13th and it was Friday, so the 12th couldn't a been the 12th. And one thing led to another until I finally figured it out. Yeah, I'm a little slow today... it must be the cool weather... here it is 1:30 and only 73 degrees. Just can't handle it!
Just seein' if you were paying attention ~ and you were :D !
(It's a template and I missed changing the date - sorry and thanks!)
Dawn
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Great profile, Winterbird! Thanks for doing it!
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yay for the, save PM thing, shame it wasn't about 4 months earlier when it took me 5 days of cut and pasting to do it. But it was better than the 6 weeks (not solid time you understand!) to do it before, when I deleted my old account.
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Great profile, Winterbird! I really enjoyed reading it!
Thanks for the detailed steps to saving our PM's! It will be very helpful!
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Loved loved loved your profile, winterbird! ;) :) :)
Very interesting what you did when you were living in HK and great picture too!
Can't wait to see you again in OXford!
:-*
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yay for the, save PM thing, shame it wasn't about 4 months earlier when it took me 5 days of cut and pasting to do it. But it was better than the 6 weeks (not solid time you understand!) to do it before, when I deleted my old account.
:D :D :D I know the feeling, done that a few times over the past 2 years!!!
Thanks John and Team that was a brilliant idea.
And Winterbird, you already know how much I liked your profile :-*
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what Nick and mouk said... Truly, it's a relief! ;D
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I want to echo my thanks for the new "save your PMs" function button. It works just as easy on my Mac ;)
And thanks to everyone who read my profile *blushes* :-[
I am always amazed by the extraordinary lives and experiences when I read other members' profiles. I am just a nerd who fell in love with two gay cowboys sheepherders ;D
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I am just a nerd who fell in love with two gay cowboys sheepherders ;D
aren't we all?
;) :-*
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I want to echo my thanks for the new "save your PMs" function button. It works just as easy on my Mac ;)
Thanks for letting us know it's Mac-friendly, Winterbird! :)
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Ok to answer the question regarding why the wedding ring is on the left hand.....I believe I read that it was originally thought that viens from that finger/hand run directly to the heart, and that is why wedding bands are placed on that finger.
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yeah thats the reason
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I liked that one-shot a lot.
It was very beautiful and mowing.... :'( :(
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I wrote the following in response to a message from the leader of United Families International. UFI is a rightwing organization led by a wingnut named Carol:
Carol:
Thanx! for reminding me of how wonderful I am as a father! IMHO, I truly am all the wonderful things you describe. I’ve worked extremely hard to provide for my children an example of righteous service and to nurture and encourage them to withstand the vicissitudes of life.
The interesting part of my particular story is that I am gay, and have been my whole life. However, as a gay man, because of Society’s homophobia, which you and your organization perpetuate on a daily basis, and because of the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (along with other churches), I lived my whole life in the closet, as do tens of thousands of my brethren currently. Estimates are that there are 500,000 gay members of the Church, and that number grows daily. Homosexuals are a constant percentage of the population and are going to be here forever.
I lived in the closet because of my age and what the world was like when I was young. To be queer was to be despised and ridiculed, and perhaps even murdered, so no one wanted to be that. I was afraid that by coming out I would lose everything dear to me due to a lack of understanding and true Christian love.
My personal catalyst for change was Brokeback Mountain, and when the movie came out it showed me on the grand scale of a movie screen how important it is for one’s ultimate happiness to be true to oneself. It was based on the brilliant short story by award winning author Annie Proulx. Since it is “R-rated” I doubt that you’ve seen it. A pity, since it has won more Best Picture awards nationally and internationally than any other film in history and was seen by 10,000,000 people in the theaters.
Like the main character of the movie, Ennis Del Mar, I lived a lie my whole life, and for that not only I suffered, but so did my family. However, from the closet, as unhappy as I was, along with my lovely wife I persevered and we raised a righteous family in the Church even though I am a homosexual. I taught them well, they are all married in the temple, living active lives in the Church. My daughters are well educated to educated and accomplished men and my son, through his talent and our encouragement, is an accomplished artist, although he has no degree he’s never made less than $50,000 a year since his mission. He was the Set Designer on the new Horton Hears a Who movie that came out this spring. He is currently under contract to the same publisher of the Harry Potter books for two Missile Mouse graphic novels he is writing. My ten grandchildren are all learning the Gospel at their parents’ knees.
When I came out to my Church leaders after having worked with them shoulder to shoulder for decades, their response was the Church line, to send me to counseling to ‘change me back’ in to a heterosexual. How silly and what hogwash that is. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with me! I’m a sinner like everyone else, but my sexual orientation is right and proper in the eyes of God.
The sad part in all of this is that even though I was an exemplary father, the Church has no place of honor or respect for me as a homosexual member. After having served a lifetime in most positions of leadership and followership in the Church, when I came out the best they could find for me, after searching for 10 months, was as Ward Janitor. I would have served there gladly if I had not thought it was a calling out of desperation, rather than inspiration. They just didn’t know where to put the ‘gay guy’ so that he wouldn’t influence anyone in what he said or did. My Home Teachers visited me once in a year. I can’t believe how poorly the ward treated me. I bore my testimony, when I still had one, every chance I had, said prayers, contributed in Priesthood and Sunday School, went to the temple, but in a year that I lived in that ward the only person who made me feel good about being there was a loving bishop’s wife. Most Mormons really aren’t Christians. All you have to do is run around with some real Christians for awhile and the stark difference between them and Mormons is a sad commentary on the LDS religion.
After having trained hundreds of young men and women in the skills needed to be outstanding missionaries as the Director of the Arizona Temple Youth Guides, after serving as Ward Mission Leader five times, in charge of VIP Seating at the Easter Pageant for years, called as an Ordinance Worker at the Temple (where I served for a decade up to 20 hours a week), serving in a bishopric, High Priest leadership, and Elder’s Quorum leadership, teaching Sunday School and Young Men, Gospel Doctrine, serving on the Stake Council and in Ward Clerk positions, after writing the Stake Emergency Preparedness Plan, after serving in the Media Center in the 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City, after spending 1,000 nights in the Gardens watching over the welfare of my Youth Guides, the most precious pre-missionaries in the Church, after having published a missionary newsletter that went to 135 missionaries in 21 countries and all of the United States for ten years…after all of that and much, much more, as soon as I announced I was gay, the Church and my member friends, along with my family, distanced themselves as quickly as they could.
The Church wants me to deny my God-given right to love whomever I choose and to then live with that person on an equal footing with all the other members of the Church. If I deny who I am and live a lonely, unfulfilled life, I can remain a member in good standing. This is definitely not a God-given rule! It was established by…men…who lost their way from the truth as they followed the dictates of a society that cannot accept fully the teachings of Jesus Christ…loving the least of these, your brethren. It was these same men who finally bowed to Society’s pressures and gave the Priesthood to Blacks. Would Jesus discriminate? I think not and that’s why I know that one day homosexuals will have all the rights and privileges of any other member of the Church.
I know a young man who is a mutual friend of yours and mine. He has a beautiful personality, good looks, keeps himself healthy by eating right and exercising, and is gay and in the closet, and you have known him all his life. He has been in your home and played with your children. He served a mission and was educated at BYU. Using his degree he has had a tremendous impact even nationally. While at BYU he had extensive counseling because he was attracted to men and not to women, had been taught all his life how wrong that was and that he was an abomination and wanted so much just to be whole. A BYU counselor finally told him that in order to be happy he should just to go ahead and find a boyfriend. How enlightened that was!
He has been through hell because of people like you who infuse a whole group of people with the kind of hatred you spew towards him in words that are disgustingly anti-Christ-centered. Because of people like you, to save his life he had to form an anti-suicide pact with other young gay members to keep from killing himself because of persecution…just because he was made by God to love men, and not women, and the hatred against him that the Church and members like you direct at him. I wonder how you would have felt and how you would have consoled his parents if he had been successful in killing himself. He tried his whole life so far to live up to the ideal of having and raising a family with a righteous woman, going through the engagement process with several wonderful girls, but coming to his senses at the last minute each time, leaving misery in its wake. He did this because of pressure from his family and the Church to marry and have his own posterity. He wants a family so bad and would be a wonderful father, but to be happy he can only do so in a loving, monogamous, gay marriage to someone of his choosing. I can only imagine the kind of love he would shower on children fortunate to be ‘born’ into that union.
Sadly, he has left the Church and has given up on expecting his parents and their friends to understand and love him and a companion for who they are…children of God.
Further, I want you to know that I firmly believe that civil rights for gay members of our society is proper and righteous and will come to pass, no matter what you do to oppose it. Young men like the one I wrote about here will not have to either kill themselves or live desperate lives of celibacy and loneliness in our country in the future. The fact that they have to now cries out mightily to the God who made us all as wrong, wrong, wrong! Someday you and the gerontologic leades of the Church will see that the alternative family that this young man could create, highly educated and accomplished in life…a family he can make with a same-sex companion…is probably superior to yours and many others who follow your god-less path of discrimination.
The current statistics, not the ones that are 30 years old, out of the Scandinavian countries prove that gay marriage has had a good effect on their countries, with the divorce rate dropping and the number of wonderful gay families growing daily.
I know my letter is not going to change your mind about anything. It might even fuel you to do more. But, in the end, I believe your efforts will be fruitless.
Bobby
__________________________
Below is what Carol sent to all her listserve on Father's Day:
Thank you for being there for your family!
Marvelous things occur because of you being a part of your children's lives.
You are their role model, counselor, teacher and the source of strength that your family needs and enjoys.Your importance in the lives of your children can immediately be seen in their eyes and actions.
Your time and involvement with your children creates an influence that can't be measured - though sometimes we try.
Dad's Are Best - Here's Proof
For example, there is an overwhelming amount of data from social research that tells a pretty impressive story.
For one thing, if you are there and involved, those children are 50% more likely to get A's in high school and go on to college.
Not only that, but just having you around, being their friend, your children are over 60% less likely to get into trouble or see the inside of juvenile hall.
And what about your precious daughters? Well, if you are not around and involved, your daughters are twice as likely to become sexually involved at a young age and they have a 70% higher chance of getting pregnant outside of marriage.
The list of positive things that you bring into your children's life is long. It is clear... you make the difference.
As our special father's day gift to you, we've put together a list of dozens of facts and figures all proving how great it is to be a dad. Take a look. You might be surprised at just how wonderful you are.
Click here now to see the list: UFI's Fatherhood Fact Sheet.
Days With My Dad...
Days with my dad were a pleasure and an adventure.
He taught me the value of a hard day's work, how to deal with adversity and how to handle myself in the outside world. His practical way of dealing with life made me believe that I could accomplish anything - from riding a bike to earning a college degree.
Dads, you bring blessings and balance to the lives of your boys and girls. As you'll see looking at our fact sheet, few things give your children a better chance at being happy, successful, and doing great things in life than having you there for them.
The world is a better place because of your love and commitment to your families.
Happy Father's Day!
Warmly,
Carol Soelberg,
President United Families International
P.S. You've probably already given your dad something special, but here's one more wonderful and inexpensive gift you can give...
Everyday of the year UFI is working hard to defend and empower wonderful dads all around the world.
By making a generous donation right now, you can help us promote dads everywhere, all year round. Strong dads will make families stronger and help raise happier, smarter children. Pick a father's day gift amount now - and thank you!
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A wonderful letter, Bobby.....
I don't know anything at all about your church (I hate missionaries) or this woman, but the letter is very honest and heartfelt and deeply touching.
I wonder what she will answer...?
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Sason:
Thanx! for your kinds words. She really is a crazy woman, and runs a very powerful organization that is nationwide in scope. I, too, wonder if and what she'll answer. I'll be sure to quote her here for your response.
Bobby
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First off, thanks SOOOO much for the DelMar Wedding portrait. I had not seen it before and it moved me to tears. So much promise, so much lost.
And just when I got it back together, there was the one-shot. Beautifully done.
BUT the lead article... well, duh! Sorry, but all that really seems obvious. Very obvious.
Two out of three... great Daily Sheet!
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A digital reconstruction of the del Mar Wedding Portrait is available in Downloads at FindingBrokeback.com here:
http://www.findingbrokeback.com/Downloads/DelMar_Wedding.jpg
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They have swimming pools in England?
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In addition to the mentions in TDS from Entertainment Weekly, here is another that Brokeback Mountain is a part of:
The 100 best reads from 1983 to 2008
#89. Close Range, Annie Proulx (1999)
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Just want to thank royandronnie for that insightful piece, The contrast between the indoor and the outdoor scenes was one of the things which struck me so forcefully at the Oxford screening. That and how amazingly good the women are - and I met so many wonderful women in Oxford :) (and I say that knowing well it's men I like, ;D)
and Lyle - sorry you weren't there, but trust me, I have actually just come back from swimming in an Oxford swimming pool, very nice one, with my son.
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Beautiful article sparked off by the demise of the diner, R&R. Very nicely expressed.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh253%2Fmontezumae_2006%2F102_0603.jpg&hash=f4a0ea3ce91b730c7a2c94b37a518d5806af50c1)
Lovely to see the pic of some of the walking tour group from last week, I was just about to get my very own attack of Brokie Blues but this cured it.
I was back in Oxford today to meet my son, we went to a lovely little place called the Magic Cafe I never knew before (Brokies would have loved it), went to the toilet/restroom/lavatory/whatever, and what did I see on the wall but this picture.
It was great to meet so many last week, hugs all, Chris x
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Ok to answer the question regarding why the wedding ring is on the left hand.....I believe I read that it was originally thought that viens from that finger/hand run directly to the heart, and that is why wedding bands are placed on that finger.
It's exactly the other way around in France (for men). Wedding rings always on the right hand.
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(((Chris))) - love the pic, the words and the mountains behind! ;) :'(
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(((Chris))) - love the pic, the words and the mountains behind! ;) :'(
It just seemed so appropriate - missing you all - and then we walked and came to a splendid viewpoint
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I've loved reading about the Oxford visit, and envy all of you who were there.
I see the topic of global warming has been raised...I don't want to get into a possibly controversial discussion, but I do want to go out on a limb as a Canadian and commend the US mayors for their call to boycott the Alberta oil sands. Yes, oil sands development is adding to the value of my house, and to my children's job opportunities, but the Alberta oil money will not bring anything good in the longterm, and I welcome any international efforts to slow or stop the development. Not only do the oilsands devastate the fragile northern environment, require phenomenal amounts of energy to extract the oil, but they also take over the lives and dreams of many young (and not so young) men who find themselves lost and lonely and vulnerable to addictions and other mental health problems up there in a huge boomtown.
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Mr. Clean's first name is Norman.
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Lovely to see the pic of some of the walking tour group from last week, I was just about to get my very own attack of Brokie Blues but this cured it.
I was back in Oxford today to meet my son, we went to a lovely little place called the Magic Cafe I never knew before (Brokies would have loved it), went to the toilet/restroom/lavatory/whatever, and what did I see on the wall but this picture.
It was great to meet so many last week, hugs all, Chris x
What a wonderful pic, Chris!!!
So appropiate at a time like this!!!!!!
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I've tried to find a discussion of Bravo's showing of BBM last Friday, but can't find any mention of it anywhere on our Forum. I've had to go to BetterMost for any info about it. What gives? If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'll be grateful.
It's highly unusual that the butcher job isn't even being discussed. Even Bravo has issued a statement, but on this Forum, zip.
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I've tried to find a discussion of Bravo's showing of BBM last Friday, but can't find any mention of it anywhere on our Forum. I've had to go to BetterMost for any info about it. What gives? If anyone can point me in the right direction, I'll be grateful.
It's highly unusual that the butcher job isn't even being discussed. Even Bravo has issued a statement, but on this Forum, zip.
We did have some discussion in the BBM General Discussion2 thread starting here:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=28284.210 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=28284.210)
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Chris, I love that pic!
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Chris, I'm so glad to see your profile! Wish I could have come to Oxford and met you in person. Maybe I saw it in the early days, but I didn't remember your beautiful poem! Thanks for sharing all of that. :)
- Lydia
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The Latest on Jake
"Jake’s upcoming film, Prince of Persia: He plays adventurous Prince Dastan
[...]in the film which is based on a computer game...
Even though I have liked a couple movies that were based on computer
games, it always makes me cringe to find out an upcoming movie is
based on one... In my mind it seems like someone is saying my dinner
is based on junk food or something...
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(((Chris))), loooooooved reading your profile!
As much as meeting you the other day in RL!
;)
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Thanks for your profile Chris!
We loved meeting you (with 'we' I mean I and my husband) in Oxford. You're such a lovely person. It is a pleasure to talk with you; hope we can meet again soon.
PS in Oxford at Blackwell's I bought a Murakami too......
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Chris great profile and it was great to meet you, finally, in Oxford. As with many, I wish there had been more time to chat, but I guess we get to do that here.
Your hubby was a great and interesting chap. Had a good conversation with him about organic metallics in the rain at Christchurch College, didn't think i would be doing that when I got up that morning.
Nick
xx
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about organic metallics in the rain at Christchurch College
organic metallics?
*pricks up her ears*
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about organic metallics in the rain at Christchurch College
organic metallics?
*pricks up her ears*
Chris' husband is doing research in that area in Germany currently.
I am sure that Chris can get more information than I am aware of. I was interested only from the very nerdy perspective of loving science, but all I knew of organic metallics was in the context that certain vitamins are organic metallics.
Oh if only I had 5 or 6 lifetimes, I may be able to study all the things that interest me.
***Nick mutters about the inconvenience of the human condition, and leaves the thread****
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all I knew of organic metallics was in the context that certain vitamins are organic metallics.
Thanks. Oh yes, just to make the most common example our blood is red just because of an Iron organometallic (hemoglobin - more precisely a metalloproteine)
ok OT
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Hello all, thanks for all the sweet and lovely comments. Love you all :-*.
Techie bit - optional ;D
Dave and I are both chemists by training. One of our shared interests is the best known natural organometallic - Vitamin 12. If you are interested, it contains a cobalt-carbon bond. It's a standard ingredient of multivitamin tablets and is a pretty red colour.
And since he loves science - he's in Germany right now having fun doing it. I'm going over there next Thursday - but I plan to do no work, visit vineyards, old castles and little towns - and probably have a good time socially too :D :D
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Great, inspiring profile, from Chris (montezumae) today!
And I'd never read that beautiful poem before... it moved me to tears,
Thank you and nice to see you again in Oxford :-*
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Great, inspiring profile, from Chris (montezumae) today!
And I'd never read that beautiful poem before... it moved me to tears,
Thank you and nice to see you again in Oxford :-*
Oh Paola, please don't upset yourself (((((((Paola)))))))) - I suggested that it be posted because it's the only way i ever tried to explain my username on the forum, and of course most people probably never read the poetry thread, I know that now. But also - it highlights what my forum membership has done for me - it really has helped me to understand myself and be a better 'integrated' person.
- lovely to see you in Oxford x
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Regarding John's quote: "I've never been more disappointed than I was last night."
You know...I think I've said this in the past (if I only had a dime...), but rarely about a movie.... ::) :D
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Thanks for your profile Chris!
We loved meeting you (with 'we' I mean I and my husband) in Oxford. You're such a lovely person. It is a pleasure to talk with you; hope we can meet again soon.
PS in Oxford at Blackwell's I bought a Murakami too......
hello Daniela glad you had a good time, it remains to be seen how I'll get on with Murakami, but I like what I read so far. So you're going to read Japanese translated into English as an Italian - good for you!
Sorry you don't think you can make this Swedish trip but someone did say northern Italy was also on the cards - I'd say Dave would come with me to that one. love to all your family, Chris x
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Chris, what a wonderful profile! I can only echo the thoughts of others in saying what an absolute delight it was to meet you in Oxford and to hope that we can meet up again soon.
In reply to Trigger Hippie's comment that he needs six lifetimes to study / find out about all of the things he is interested in, well, I've been saying that myself for years, but as he well knows, we are like that in Essex. ::) ::) ::)
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Dave and I are both chemists by training.
And Mauro and I as well!!!
*this reinforces somebody's theory that chemists have a tendency to couple with another chemist :D - must be because of all those covalent bonds between us*
Sorry you don't think you can make this Swedish trip
oh no I haven't excluded it yet! Only, I can't say 'for sure' right now.
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Dave and I are both chemists by training.
And Mauro and I as well!!!
*this reinforces somebody's theory that chemists have a tendency to couple with another chemist :D - must be because of all those covalent bonds between us*
Sorry you don't think you can make this Swedish trip
oh no I haven't excluded it yet! Only, I can't say 'for sure' right now.
That's very nice , Daniela!
I was explaining to someone yesterday that we met over a vacuum line - perhaps you have used one - they are used for handling substances that would not survive in air - like many organometalllics (((Nick))) - and I'm sure you'd agree that chemistry -a very practical, hands-on subject - is also very sociable, international and non-judgmental about people (on a good day).
You may also know the book by Primo Levi called 'The Periodic Table' in English, I could have cited that as a book that I have reread many times. The 'phosphorus' chapter has a particular resonance for me, but the 'iron' chapter - though it has nothing to do with being gay - is a very powerful description of two young men in the high mountains of northern Italy.
btw this book is quite short, autobiographical, and very accessible, it's also very poetic.
Hope to see you in Stockholm - I worked there at the KTH in the summer of '69 - i was very young then ;D
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Chris, what a wonderful profile! I can only echo the thoughts of others in saying what an absolute delight it was to meet you in Oxford and to hope that we can meet up again soon.
In reply to Trigger Happy's comment that he needs six lifetimes to study / find out about all of the things he is interested in, well, I've been saying that myself for years, but as he well knows, we are like that in Essex. ::) ::) ::)
well said indeed - 'life is too short' is something I say every day, and pretty frequently I say 'you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs'.
- Jess - meeting you was great! And now - must clean up the kitchen and go to meet my daughter in London.
Have a great day everyone and thanks again for all the kind comments.
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What a wonderful profile of montezumae, who is a wonderful person! Her presence on this forum is a significant part of its quality, for me.
And, I'll admit, I had never read the poem about the pine, nor did I know where the user name came from. I, too, found it all deeply moving. So thanks for publishing it.
The poem made me think once again about one of the haunting things of the BBM experience for me, which others (particularly you folks on the other side of the pond..) might not experience, or I should say experience in a different way; that is the fact that so many people in so many different places have in their consciousness the physical landscape of (my) marginal corner of the world...the pines and dusty roads [although not Mexican ones] that are such a part of my own landscape, which I have always thought of as "nowhere", are in people's hearts around the world. Is that worth pondering, or what?
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Congratulations Chris on your wonderful profile on TDS. I'm so glad thht i got to meet you in person at the Oxford Brokies' gathering.
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And it made me sad to read that Brokeback Mountain was treated like that at its premiere on cable tv. I thought that s'thing similar would have happened here, in Greece at its first airing but luckily it didn't-I swear this country has given me the biggest surprises in my life so far but happily it was a good one in this case. I was so thrilled that there was no censorship at all. :)
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Just wanted to say that I always enjoy reading the profiles on everyone here!
Chris, yours was a great read, and I'm very happy I had the opportunity to meet an talk with you in Oxford! You're a delight!
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Regarding John's quote: "I've never been more disappointed than I was last night."
You know...I think I've said this in the past (if I only had a dime...), but rarely about a movie.... ::) :D
Interesting--why don't you start asking them if you can borrow a dime (for the parking meter or something) on the morning after? Only if the above conditions apply. Then you can set up one of those jars where you throw the change -- but never throw in anything other than these special "disappointment" dimes. ;D
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Chris (montezumae)
So great to see your profile, and I am so glad to see your poem again.
I wish I could have met you in Oxford, but you never know what the future will bring.
Ellen
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You may also know the book by Primo Levi called 'The Periodic Table' in English, I could have cited that as a book that I have reread many times. The 'phosphorus' chapter has a particular resonance for me, but the 'iron' chapter - though it has nothing to do with being gay - is a very powerful description of two young men in the high mountains of northern Italy.
btw this book is quite short, autobiographical, and very accessible, it's also very poetic.
Hope to see you in Stockholm - I worked there at the KTH in the summer of '69 - i was very young then ;D
Primo Levi? So glad you know him!
I read almost everything he has written.
I have no words to say how much I love him. A chemist, a Jew, a writer, an atheist, a piedmontese (my husband is piedmontese btw)......and most of all a man.
I love his chemical and sci-fi novels, and of course those about his years of imprisonment in Auschwitz. From where he survived thanks to his speaking German and being a chemist.
His reflections about ethics, science, religion and life in general are fundamental in my cultural background. I also heard many interviews he gave on the Italian radio, and hearing his voice is always such an emotion. He was so intelligent, open and respectful. A marvellous person. We had few Italian intellectuals that can compare to him.
When he commited suicide I was so touched. It was heartbreaking that he was able to survive Auschwitz but, in the end, never could get rid of that weight. And little wonder. What a loss it was. I felt it deeply.
In short, I heartedly recommend him to everybody. And yes 'La tavola periodica' is a must for every chemist, definitely.
If you haven't read his other books, please do :)
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Oh cara, two months ago I just read this monumental biography on Primo Levi, a monumental personality.
Your post brings back a lot for me from my reading experiences.
(Something to share when we re-meet.)
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(Something to share when we re-meet.)
Oh si!!! :-* :-*
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(Something to share when we re-meet.)
Oh si!!! :-* :-*
yesyesyes
It's interesting. I'm a real European - I always like to think - and rereading what I wrote for my profile, it's one of the things which jumps out at me. This Forum seemed so alien at first, what with all these Americans and this new language I had to learn to even communicate, lol etc (gnash explained wtf to me ;D)
- so now the wheel is starting to turn full circle for me. That's quite amazing.
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You may also know the book by Primo Levi called 'The Periodic Table' in English, I could have cited that as a book that I have reread many times. The 'phosphorus' chapter has a particular resonance for me, but the 'iron' chapter - though it has nothing to do with being gay - is a very powerful description of two young men in the high mountains of northern Italy.
btw this book is quite short, autobiographical, and very accessible, it's also very poetic.
Hope to see you in Stockholm - I worked there at the KTH in the summer of '69 - i was very young then ;D
Primo Levi? So glad you know him!
I read almost everything he has written.
I have no words to say how much I love him. A chemist, a Jew, a writer, an atheist, a piedmontese (my husband is piedmontese btw)......and most of all a man.
I love his chemical and sci-fi novels, and of course those about his years of imprisonment in Auschwitz. From where he survived thanks to his speaking German and being a chemist.
His reflections about ethics, science, religion and life in general are fundamental in my cultural background. I also heard many interviews he gave on the Italian radio, and hearing his voice is always such an emotion. He was so intelligent, open and respectful. A marvellous person. We had few Italian intellectuals that can compare to him.
When he commited suicide I was so touched. It was heartbreaking that he was able to survive Auschwitz but, in the end, never could get rid of that weight. And little wonder. What a loss it was. I felt it deeply.
In short, I heartedly recommend him to everybody. And yes 'La tavola periodica' is a must for every chemist, definitely.
If you haven't read his other books, please do :)
Umm, I know we are continuing off-topic here a little, but is "The Periodic Table" a good read? I mean, it's not a text book is it?
**scampers off to check out amazon**
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Periodic Table for the book club, anyone?
:D
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You may also know the book by Primo Levi called 'The Periodic Table' in English, I could have cited that as a book that I have reread many times. The 'phosphorus' chapter has a particular resonance for me, but the 'iron' chapter - though it has nothing to do with being gay - is a very powerful description of two young men in the high mountains of northern Italy.
btw this book is quite short, autobiographical, and very accessible, it's also very poetic.
Hope to see you in Stockholm - I worked there at the KTH in the summer of '69 - i was very young then ;D
Primo Levi? So glad you know him!
I read almost everything he has written.
I have no words to say how much I love him. A chemist, a Jew, a writer, an atheist, a piedmontese (my husband is piedmontese btw)......and most of all a man.
I love his chemical and sci-fi novels, and of course those about his years of imprisonment in Auschwitz. From where he survived thanks to his speaking German and being a chemist.
His reflections about ethics, science, religion and life in general are fundamental in my cultural background. I also heard many interviews he gave on the Italian radio, and hearing his voice is always such an emotion. He was so intelligent, open and respectful. A marvellous person. We had few Italian intellectuals that can compare to him.
When he commited suicide I was so touched. It was heartbreaking that he was able to survive Auschwitz but, in the end, never could get rid of that weight. And little wonder. What a loss it was. I felt it deeply.
In short, I heartedly recommend him to everybody. And yes 'La tavola periodica' is a must for every chemist, definitely.
If you haven't read his other books, please do :)
Umm, I know we are continuing off-topic here a little, but is "The Periodic Table" a good read? I mean, it's not a text book is it?
**scampers off to check out amazon**
I can probably lend you a well-thumbed copy, this is one of those books I kept buying!
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hmmmmm.... mucho considerazione!
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I won't join the literary discussion here (...too stupid for that, I'm afraid ::)) but I just wanted to congratulate you on your wonderful profile, Chris! :) (It was about time one of my favourite persons on the forum got featured in TDS... ;))
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Montezumae, thanks so much for sharing your profile in TDS!
I always knew you were the coolest. ;) Great to hear a little more about you!
And thanks as always to TDS staff! :-*
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Wonderful to read your profile, Chris!
Especially after meeting you in person, it was really special to read it!!!
Like: WOW, the profile of a person I know!!
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hmmmmm.... mucho considerazione!
does that mean yes?
If so, I suggest you PM me your address and I'll see what I can do.
I went through the bookshelves when I got home (that takes a while in this house) and found seven books by Primo Levi. I have read some of them - unforgettably the book which made his name : 'If this is a man' : about how his training as a chemist saved his life in Auschwitz. As Daniela says - these are writings that make a serious impact.
But so far only one copy of The Periodic Table - and no, it's not a textbook.
In 'nitrogen' for example, he describes trying to make a bit of money by extracting a important ingredient of lipstick from chicken shit.
In 'phosphorus' he describes giving a a girl a ride on his bike on a very important errand in wartime Turin.
And the story of an atom of carbon is wonderfully poetic and imaginative.
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The next time we get together, we gotta have a round table about Levi, Chris, Daniela, Nick and myself.
He's such a fascinating subject, such a rich and deep voice, such a masterful personality.
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The next time we get together, we gotta have a round table about Levi, Chris, Daniela, Nick and myself.
He's such a fascinating subject, such a rich and deep voice, such a masterful personality.
I haven't read the book you have, but I'm up for this. Dave and I both found him a gripping writer and were very shaken by his presumed suicide after such amazing courage all his life.
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AfterElton has a good article today regarding the Bravo edit.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=2660.msg1348222#new (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=2660.msg1348222#new)
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The next time we get together, we gotta have a round table about Levi, Chris, Daniela, Nick and myself.
He's such a fascinating subject, such a rich and deep voice, such a masterful personality.
I haven't read the book you have, but I'm up for this. Dave and I both found him a gripping writer and were very shaken by his presumed suicide after such amazing courage all his life.
This is great, I hope you all can do it. Right now the discussion can go to "What good book have you read lately" http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=232.1260 --
or, if you want to discuss the book (or the author) on the forum, I'll start you a thread in the book section. Then you won't have to wait for the next get-together. Just let me know.
Ellen
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Periodic Table for the book club, anyone?
:D
Good idea, Ellen. I'd be interested.
I think I read If This is a Man many years ago.
My memory is a bit confused by later having read Victor Frankl at the request of my Jewish fiancee 26 years ago And Elie Wiesel's Night which I had to teach once in the 90s - several students chose it.
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The next time we get together, we gotta have a round table about Levi, Chris, Daniela, Nick and myself.
He's such a fascinating subject, such a rich and deep voice, such a masterful personality.
Great idea Ingmar. With enormous pleasure.
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This is great, I hope you all can do it. Right now the discussion can go to "What good book have you read lately" http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=232.1260 --
or, if you want to discuss the book (or the author) on the forum, I'll start you a thread in the book section. Then you won't have to wait for the next get-together. Just let me know.
Ellen
That might be just the thing to do! ;)
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And, above all, discuss the excellent Ian Thomson biography on Levi too...
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And, above all, discuss the excellent Ian Thomson biography on Levi too...
OK Ingy I will get that pronto - thanks for the suggestion, good idea :D
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In spite of its density and flood of informations, a true page-turner! ^^^^^^^^
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And, above all, discuss the excellent Ian Thomson biography on Levi too...
I must confess I haven't read it :-[
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Ellen ( ;) ) has created the thread on Levi now, so let's continue over there.
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"We hadn't rehearsed that scene in the hospital. I didn't have that much to do that day in the bed. I just sort of sat there, and Heath did his thing. And once he started doing his thing, I was an actor in the scene, but I was a fan." ~ Aaron Eckhart (Harvey Dent/Two-Face).
I think that was my favorite scene.
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Today's issue of TDS is the best so far.
(((((Ted))))) and (((((Lisa)))))
I've read hundreds of tributes to Heath since January, but this is the one I've been waiting for and the one I will remember for the rest of my life. Thank you for doing this for us.
I said something about Jake back around January 22 when everyone was wondering when he was going to say something about Heath. I said he'd do it when the time was right and it would break our hearts again. Well, here it is.
This story is better than any Jake interview I've ever read, and I've read a lot.
And thank you for giving him that personal invitation to the AMPAS screening. I didn't hear him say "no" :) Keeping my fingers crossed.
Love ya!
JT
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Sphenopalatineganglioneuralgia
BRAIN FREEZE!!!!!!
http://kidshealth.org/kid/talk/qa/ice_cream_headache.html
Sal ;D
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Thanks to Ted and Lisa for allowing The Daily Sheet to have excertps of the meeting!
I've read it in full on Ted's Live Journal, and I recommend it......They way they wrote it (from the very beginning with a bunch of travel mishaps) to the end, it's interesting, and allows us to see sides of Jake we haven't before, as well as Ted and Lisa!
Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed report!
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What BCJ & Chuckie said - yay Ted & Lisa !
;)
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What BCJ & Chuckie said - yay Ted & Lisa !
;)
I will second that!
Many thanks Ted and Lisa!
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What BCJ & Chuckie said - yay Ted & Lisa !
;)
I will second that!
Many thanks Ted and Lisa!
Me too!!
I still haven't finished reading the LJ post yet, but so far it's great!!
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What BCJ & Chuckie said - yay Ted & Lisa !
;)
A third second! It was fantastic - THANKS so much!!!!
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi199.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa29%2Fclshanley%2FFifthThirdpic.gif&hash=f4bdcc3d3baca8a91852e8cb007b1ab2d73eb16b)
Great, y'all!
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This sure was a high time lunch...
Ted, Lisa and Jake were all respectful of each other's opinions.
('Bout needed a quart of whiskey to read it!)
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Hi, everybody! And especially the people I met in Oxford!
Trying to avoid multiple posting here, so I'll jump a bit.
Chris, congratulations on your profile. But of course I already knew what a wonderful person you are.
Lisa and Ted: thank you for all the work you put in the report. In fact I've read only what's in the TDS, but I'm sure it will be a great reading, once I set aside enough time for it.
Primo Levi: Wonderful reading, maybe less known than the rest of his books: ''Se non ora, quando?'' (If Not Now, When?).
Ciao
Antonella
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Thank you Ted & Lisa.
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Thank you Gnash!
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Primo Levi: Wonderful reading, maybe less known than the rest of his books: ''Se non ora, quando?'' (If Not Now, When?).
Ciao
Antonella
elena, now we have a thread on Primo Levi
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=30614.0
I hope you can post there. :)
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Wow, got on here early this morning so I could read The Daily Sheet with my coffee... I picked up TWO by mistake! What a hoot
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Hey West coasters! (And all others interested...)
Our movie is being replayed on Bravo tonight at 8pm, then again at 11pm. I'm hoping to be able to watch it while at work, see if the network replaced the missing parts!
Hugs!
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Bravo kept their word. The SNIT was shown intact tonight.
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Some of the language substitutions were amazing indeed! High altitude flings. Just imagining Jack and Ennis dancing by the lake in kilts.
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High altitude flings.
LOL!
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Wow, got on here early this morning so I could read The Daily Sheet with my coffee... I picked up TWO by mistake! What a hoot
well -- I am curious enough to ask-- two whut? :D
sorry if I'm missing something obvious
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I think what doodler means is that there were two identical TDSs......
I also had that, haven't checked if they are both still there, though.....
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:D :D
I was thinking it may have been a play on TDS -- TWO -- but that didn't work out either!!
Probably the explanation is that Dawn was still working on the post and perfecting it, and some of you logged in before she had it all squared away in the newsbox, etc. My oh my, no getting away with anything in a public forum! I only see one now, unless you-all have the special double vision. ;)
It is a really great TDS, by the way. Thanks Dawn!
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:D :D
I was thinking it may have been a play on TDS -- TWO -- but that didn't work out either!!
Probably the explanation is that Dawn was still working on the post and perfecting it, and some of you logged in before she had it all squared away in the newsbox, etc. My oh my, no getting away with anything in a public forum! I only see one now, unless you-all have the special double vision. ;)
It is a really great TDS, by the way. Thanks Dawn!
I second that!
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Hi there.
I am not used to negotiating through the forum (I stay in one area) but I requested to be friended to readthe account of the Jake Lunch. I never received a response--but I can imagine that wouln't have time to write everyone. But i can't find TDS that listed where I go to see if I can read it. Can someone help--sending me a PM would be great, otherwise I have to try to find this again.
THANKS.
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Exactly! couldn't find it either...
and BTW I am not sure about that link to Somerset House, ticket price should be £12.50 but they want £18.50 - or did I miss something?
Makes Oxford look like good value!
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Jmp and Chris, I'll PM you the link. You have to ask to be friended, though....
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Is this where we put our response to the Daily Sheet question? I think the two posthumous Oscar winners were Peter Finch (Best Actor for "Network") and Howard Ashman (lyricist, "Beauty and the Beast").
The Academy used to be very snarky about not allowing proxies to accept awards (probably due to the Sacheen Littlefeather blow-up when Brando won), but I remember very clearly that Ashman's partner accepted for him and gave a beautiful speech. I watched that ceremony in a San Francisco gay bar, and everyone was silent while he spoke; when he finished, the place erupted in applause.
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I well remember my daughter, who is a musician, used to play a lot of the music written by Howard Ashman and Alan Menken for Disney films when she was in her school band. We even borrowed some CD's once with them talking, singing and writing the music. They were wonderful, and so was much of the music.
Howard Ashman.................another very talented man who died far too young! :'(
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Bravo kept their word. The SNIT was shown intact tonight.
I saw the re-edit on Sunday.
One major problem is the way they handled the Earl incident; by not mentioning what of Earl's was pulled off, they miss the major motivation behind Ennis's fears. It's more than just being killed; its about losing his manhood. So to me, Bravo is still kinda screwed up.
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Here is the link to The Daily Sheet that has the info about the lunch with Jake - click HERE (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=30490.msg1356050#msg1356050).
The past additions are all in the "our Community section" in Forum News and Updates (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?board=56.0) ~ sorry you had trouble finding it. Please let me know if you have any problems!
Yes this is the place for Fun Question of the Week, answers ~ I have to go refresh my memory as to the answer ;D.
And you all are too quick - yes for a short time on Saturday morning, the same TDS was posted twice, while I fiddled with it.
Thanks Everyone,
Dawn
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BayCityJohn--
I was watching very intently to see if they had indeed restored the SNIT scene, and they did! I'm happy about that. Wonder if it took fans like us to force them to make it right?
Maybe it was just an oversight, like they said. I guess we'll never know for sure. Thanks for letting us know, and for raising a fuss when it was called for!
Jer
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Thank you Dawn for being such a wonderful TDS editor!!!! :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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(((((((Chris)))))))
So nice to meet you in Oxford!!!
Thanks for being you, babe!
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(((((((Chris)))))))
So nice to meet you in Oxford!!!
Thanks for being you, babe!
(((((Rob)))))
Thanks for being ***you*** :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
and so great to have met you both, look forward to having you living much much nearer.
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May I second that! :-*
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May I third that!
LOL!
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BayCityJohn--
I was watching very intently to see if they had indeed restored the SNIT scene, and they did! I'm happy about that. Wonder if it took fans like us to force them to make it right?
Maybe it was just an oversight, like they said. I guess we'll never know for sure. Thanks for letting us know, and for raising a fuss when it was called for!
It was definitely the fans that got them to re-think the editing. And I think the people at AfterElton deserve a lot of the credit because they're the ones that actually got through to the right person at Bravo.
I'll raise a fuss whenever the integrity of the film needs to be defended.
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Extra! Extra! Read all about it
Dawn has a birthday, might as well shout it
Brokeback news she keeps out-churning,
'Cause the rest of us are all Still Learning!
:D
to wish Dawn a happy birthday, go to the Happy birthday thread! (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=10814.2415)
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Sidney Howard got the Oscar for the screenplay of Gone With the Wind after his death in 1939.
To my knowledge, the only other one would be to actor Peter Finch for his role in Network
But from all indications, Heath Ledger deserves the third with his performance in TDK.
Oh, and I dedicate this 2,000th post to Heath and the the folks here who believe his performance as Ennis in BBM deserved best actor.
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Hmmm...
The Oscar nominations are scheduled to be announced on January 22, so maybe, just maybe.
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Extra! Extra! Read all about it
Dawn has a birthday, might as well shout it
Brokeback news she keeps out-churning,
'Cause the rest of us are all Still Learning!
and the midnight oil she's burning
To ease our hopeful yearning
and mutual concerning... etc etc
Dawn - a big thank you!
:D
to wish Dawn a happy birthday, go to the Happy birthday thread! (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=10814.2415)
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The UPS article made me laugh today!
I enjoyed laughing.
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The San Diego Rodeo runs from Sept 12-14th. Rodeo Events at Lakeside Rodeo Arena. Social Events at the Handlery Hotel.
http://www.sandiegorodeo.com/rodeo.htm (http://www.sandiegorodeo.com/rodeo.htm)
Bring sunblock and a hat!
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Has anyone answered the posthumous Oscar winners question? In case not, they are:
1. Sidney Howard, Screenplay for GONE WITH THE WIND (1939);
2. Peter Finch, (Lead) Actor for NETWORK (1976).
Hopefully there will be a third next year...do you think Heath should be nominated for Best Actor or Supporting Actor? As I haven't seen TDK yet I can't give an opinion.
Mark
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This isn't BROKEBACK-related but I couldn't let the day pass without saluting, on her birthday, the greatest second banana of all time, and a wonderful, funny lady in her own right: Ms. Vivian Vance. Maybe it IS BROKEBACK-related: I hate that I never met Viv, just as I regret that I never met Heath, but I look forward to meeting both of them one day and telling them how much I love them. Until that day, I just gotta stand it.
Mark
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Hopefully there will be a third next year...do you think Heath should be nominated for Best Actor or Supporting Actor? As I haven't seen TDK yet I can't give an opinion.
I think he should be nominated for Best Actor, but I'm not a member of the Academy so my vote doesn't count.
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He's probably onscreen less than 1/4 of the running time, so Supporting seems logical. However, Anthony Hopkins was barely in "Silence of the Lambs" for 20+ minutes, and they decided he was a Lead Actor contender, so there you are. (Unfortunately, that meant he defeated Nick Nolte's superb work in "The Prince of Tides" and Warren Beatty in "Bugsy.")
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Walk of Fame Facts
*Anyone can nominate a celebrity so long as the celebrity agrees to the nomination.
*One posthumous award is presented each year.
*An application for induction is valid for two years, and if accepted into the Walk of Fame, a celebrity has five years to schedule
his or her ceremony.
In case anyone was wondering, Heath Ledger would be eligible for a
star in five years--unless the committee waives the rule, there is a five
year waiting period after the demise of a celebrity who has not yet
received one.
By the way, it's reported that while the Brokies are in Hollywood,
there'll be two cowboy hats getting a star--Brooks & Dunn.
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Fun Question of the Week
This week’s Question: Celebrities can get more than one star on Hollywood's walk of fame. Who has the most stars? And how many?
Let us know the answer on the response thread.
Hmmm...motion pictures, television, radio, theater and music
Well, the theater one is relatively recent, that wasn't one of the original
designees, but I'm thinking that Bob Hope must have at least 4 of those!
(By the way, I don't think you can get more than one any more, because
they're running out of them!)
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Off topic, but.....
Congratulations to StillLearning (Dawn) on reaching 2,000+ posts!!!!!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg116%2FCellarDweller115%2Fpfireworks.gif&hash=765e0277b240612d5bb326f0a5662106a29ef05d)(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg116%2FCellarDweller115%2Fpfireworks.gif&hash=765e0277b240612d5bb326f0a5662106a29ef05d)(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg116%2FCellarDweller115%2Fpfireworks.gif&hash=765e0277b240612d5bb326f0a5662106a29ef05d)(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg116%2FCellarDweller115%2Fpfireworks.gif&hash=765e0277b240612d5bb326f0a5662106a29ef05d)(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg116%2FCellarDweller115%2Fpfireworks.gif&hash=765e0277b240612d5bb326f0a5662106a29ef05d)(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg116%2FCellarDweller115%2Fpfireworks.gif&hash=765e0277b240612d5bb326f0a5662106a29ef05d)(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg116%2FCellarDweller115%2Fpfireworks.gif&hash=765e0277b240612d5bb326f0a5662106a29ef05d)
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(I can't believe that I'm the first one to comment on the current issue of The Daily Sheet!)
After reading this issue I found myself doubly upset that I couldn't have joined you all in LA... to share the space with Diana who told so much of the screenplay, of Heath and all... I should've been there...
Thanks for that great report, all!
In envy,
Rob
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You were missed Rob.
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And as much as I missed Rob, Rodney, Trish, Lenny, Nellie, and a whole lot of other people, there was 1 person who was missed the most.
I started the discussion for the L.A. gathering way back in December.
The very first response came from Jackie.
I know she wanted to be there with us.
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I wanted to mention that gnash's photocap was inspired by a lady at the
Q&A who told Diana (paraphrasing) something like: "I want to thank you for making the best love story ever. Gay or not gay." :)
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And as much as I missed Rob, Rodney, Trish, Lenny, Nellie, and a whole lot of other people, there was 1 person who was missed the most.
I started the discussion for the L.A. gathering way back in December.
The very first response came from Jackie.
I know she wanted to be there with us.
I thought the same thing John; as I was preaparing to leave for LA last Sunday I was looking at the beginning of the thread to doublecheck details and I saw Jackie's response :'(
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The San Diego Rodeo runs from Sept 12-14th. Rodeo Events at Lakeside Rodeo Arena. Social Events at the Handlery Hotel.
http://www.sandiegorodeo.com/rodeo.htm (http://www.sandiegorodeo.com/rodeo.htm)
Bring sunblock and a hat!
It's a nude rodeo?
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I wanted to mention that gnash's photocap was inspired by a lady at the
Q&A who told Diana (paraphrasing) something like: "I want to thank you for making the best love story ever. Gay or not gay." :)
I'm glad you added that Lyle, I went back and included that in the by-line.
Thanks!
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Excellent article about the discussion with Diana Ossana - thank you to all involved :).
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It's a nude rodeo?
In that case, you and I'd go immediately, n'est-ce pas? :D
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Your Biblical Brokeback series on August 2 is breathtaking. Thank you.
JT/EDM
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Thanks to all who put together the synposis of the Q&A with Diana, and the report on all the fun you had. I wish I could have been there. Next time, Lyle, Mary, Baycityjohn, tellyouwhat, and everyone. You seemed like you had a lot of fun.
Tellyouwhat: I'm so glad you dug a little deeper on the question of why Ennis doesn't reach out by the campfire. It does seem more in character for Heath's Ennis to show his emotions through facial expression and body language at that moment with Jack more than anything else. Heath's Ennis is more introverted than book Ennis. I'm interested in the other ways they tried that scene, as she mentioned. Since she wrote a three-page letter about why Alma should see the kiss, I'll bet she has more thoughts about this scene with Ennis and Jack, but doesn't want to say too much.
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And as much as I missed Rob, Rodney, Trish, Lenny, Nellie, and a whole lot of other people, there was 1 person who was missed the most.
I started the discussion for the L.A. gathering way back in December.
The very first response came from Jackie.
I know she wanted to be there with us.
Hugs, John...
:-*
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Your Biblical Brokeback series on August 2 is breathtaking. Thank you.
JT/EDM
We're they wonderful - I couldn't choose just one, so we ran 3 in TDS, and there are more great ones in the thread.
Thanks!
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I really want a pair of film glasses! I see from the site's press page that they also make eyeglass frames from old vinyl records, and those go for 300+ dollars. No price listed for these, though.
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And as much as I missed Rob, Rodney, Trish, Lenny, Nellie, and a whole lot of other people, there was 1 person who was missed the most.
I started the discussion for the L.A. gathering way back in December.
The very first response came from Jackie.
I know she wanted to be there with us.
Don't feel too bad, John--I just know that Jackie is in heaven with Heath and she's having lots of great talks with him, all to herself! She's probably sad for US!
Well, Tropical Storm Fay is finally approaching my area. Drizzling now but winds and rain are supposed to be VERY strong tomorrow. On the rare chance that something happens to me just remember that I loved you guys! And that I'LL be getting to talk with Heath!
Are the Olympics still going on? I'm glad I am TV-less, as I hate Michael Phelps and the way he's been shoved down our throats just like Tiger Woods. I refuse to buy anything either one endorses.
OK, off of the soapbox, Mark. Save the rage for when the Academy screws over Heath next year (as I'm scared they will).
Hugs and good night,
M.
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Fun Question of the Week
This week’s Question: Celebrities can get more than one star on Hollywood's walk of fame. Who has the most stars? And how many?
Hmmm...motion pictures, television, radio, theater and music
Well, the theater one is relatively recent, that wasn't one of the original
designees, but I'm thinking that Bob Hope must have at least 4 of those!
Bob Hope has 4, only one person has all 5: movies, television, radio, recording, and live performance. I could tell you who it is, but someone else should get a chance.
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Gorgeous Jake playing homely Michael Phelps? I think not! You'd have to do a makeup reconstruction job on Jake that would make the Boulder Dam look like an egg cup! (I don't know what this means; I got it from THE WOMEN.)
I have a script with a great part for Jake, that of a dumb diver who is competing with a lawyer for a lady's hand. Jake in a Speedo and doing comedy--what a smash that would be!
Well, Fay has passed over me and I am now getting the outer bands of wind and rain but I'm back online. No horrible damage here. Hopefully there were one or two of you (at least) who were concerned about me. :-\
Hugs,
Mark
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Fun Question of the Week
This week’s Question: Celebrities can get more than one star on Hollywood's walk of fame. Who has the most stars? And how many?
Hmmm...motion pictures, television, radio, theater and music
Well, the theater one is relatively recent, that wasn't one of the original
designees, but I'm thinking that Bob Hope must have at least 4 of those!
Bob Hope has 4, only one person has all 5: movies, television, radio, recording, and live performance. I could tell you who it is, but someone else should get a chance.
Not Ol blue Eyes?
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What a great write-up on our wonderful diver, Matthew Mitcham. He was breathtakingly brilliant - it was a bit like watching Torvell and Dean skate to Bolero that very first time - and such a sweet lad as well. Did I mention he is gay? :D In a sports-mad country like Australia, it can only help.
And thanks again for including the Candles For Heath link. I get great comfort from lighting those candles.
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Thanks so much Dawn on the great article on Matthew Mitcham.
Just wanted to give a shout out to Johnson & Johnson for sponsoring Lachlan Fletcher, Matthews partner, so he could attend the games to be at his partner's side. I think it speaks volumes for J&J!
Shame on NBC for their lack of coverage on his whole family.
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This week’s Question: In the 1956 closing Olympic ceremonies, it was the first time athletes entered the stadium in in this fashion - how did they enter?
Naked.
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Well if you read TDS early on, I mistakenly posted the unformatted version, so now that BrokenOkie has worked his behind the scenes magic and righted my wrong, please check it out again, as Denim girl did her usual wonderful job formatting this issue and making it look so appealing.
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LOL Dawn at the premature-posting! ;D
Dropped by just to offer my thanks, once again but all too infrequently I'm afraid, for you and the TDS staff. Fantastic issue today. I particularly appreciated the details behind Matthew M's story.
Monica
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Hi Monica. nice sig line -- I think 8)
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This week’s Question: In the 1956 closing Olympic ceremonies, it was the first time athletes entered the stadium in in this fashion - how did they enter?
Naked.
Melbourne 1956? No way, Jose.
The first time athletes entered naked must have been 786 BC and then it continued for centuries until some idiot Byzantine emperor banned the Games completely. A literal spoilsport.
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In 1956 in Melbourne the athletes first marched into the closing ceremony as one intermingled “nation.”
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I might add it was the idea of a Chinese-Australian youth of 17.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug/23/sports/sp-olywing24
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Thank you for your complete coverage of the Ozzie diver Matthew Mitcham!
So happy for him! ;D ;D ;D
Was in a remote area and missed the whole thing.
Knew he was competing, but didn't know how any of his dives turned out.
THX also for all you guys do to bring us TDS twice a week...wonderful!
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This is not exactly a response to the Daily Sheet, but since the Daily Sheet appears in the News Box, I figured this was probably the best place to post this.
Most of last week, Obama and Biden had a big, red headliner declaring their new partnership in the News Box at the top of the Forum. And this week, we get just a regular news bit, standard point size and down the list, that McCain chose Palin. Why is that?
While I think that most Forum members probably lean towards liberal points of view, I feel it’s presumptuous to conclude from these inclinations that the Obama/Biden ticket warrants special attention. Out of fairness to all the candidates, McCain and Palin (or any others in the race for that fact) deserve just as much recognition and emphasis on their campaign happenings. Not doing so paints somewhat of a biased picture if you ask me.
Mind you, I realize that the news items are there for the reading; it's the way it's presented that gets me.
Ennis and Jack had to steal away to the mountains every now and again for 20 years because of the biases they faced from their society. One reason this Forum was created, or so I thought, was to speak out about and combat such societal injustices and inequalities. (The bit on Matthew Mitcham this week is a perfect example.) But, it’s this subtle favoritism that appears from time to time in the Forum that leaves me wondering.
Don’t you think we should practice what we preach? ???
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Joe, you're probably right about the headline in the news box. I'll fix it right now.
I let the fact that most of our folks seem to lean in the Dem direction than toward the Repubs influence me. My own personal opinion also got in the way.
At least I didn't say Republicans are apoplectic about the choice of VP! ;)
- Lydia
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While I think that most Forum members probably lean towards liberal points of view, I feel it’s presumptuous to conclude from these inclinations that the Obama/Biden ticket warrants special attention. Out of fairness to all the candidates, McCain and Palin (or any others in the race for that fact) deserve just as much recognition and emphasis on their campaign happenings. Not doing so paints somewhat of a biased picture if you ask me.
Really, Joe? This forum started because of a film about gay subjects and the
issues that sprang forth from that. This forum is frequented by gay people and
supporters. So you WONDER that we're more interested in the Obama/Biden
ticket than McCain/Palin? I doubt McCain/Palin are more interested in ME than
Obama/Biden are. Since when does everything have to be fair and balanced?
In that regard we should have plenty of discussions about Crash and there
should be anti-gay religious propaganda because they deserve just as much recognition and emphasis on their happenings. Everything does not have
to have an equal response.
But, it’s this subtle favoritism that appears from time to time in the Forum that leaves me wondering.
It's not subtle. Republicans are not particularly gay friendly (that was subtle) so that's why we on the forum are more interested in Obama/Biden. Think about it.
Don’t you think we should practice what we preach? ???
We HAVE a point of view. That's all we need preach. Everything doesn't need an alternative argument. It's not as though what you are talking about wasn't mentioned at all. It was!
I let the fact that most of our folks seem to lean in the Dem direction than toward the Repubs influence me.
- Lydia
Which is exactly appropriate for this forum.
modified to remove personal attack
LYLE SAYS: The moderators say personal attack. It was not. It was satire.
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From the Aug. 30, 2008 TDS......
<<Adoption Ban on Arkansas Ballot
Bill would prevent non-married, co-habitating adults as foster or adoptive parents!
Andrew Demillo of the New York Times writes, "A proposal aimed at effectively banning gays and lesbians from becoming foster or adoptive parents was cleared Monday to appear on this fall's ballot in Arkansas. The measure would prohibit unmarried couples living together from fostering or adopting children.
"Secretary of State Charlie Daniels certified the proposed initiated act for the Nov. 4 ballot after verifying that the Arkansas Family Council Action Committee had submitted 85,389 valid signatures of registered voters. Supporters needed to turn in at least 61,974 valid signatures. 'Arkansas needs to affirm the importance of married mothers and fathers,' Family Council President Jerry Cox said. 'We need to publicly affirm the gold standard of rearing children whenever we can. The state standard should be as close to that gold standard of married mom and dad homes as possible.'" >>
Thank you for another wonderful TDS ! ! !
I read the above article, in its entirety, and I was shocked ! Thinking back, I cannot remember a time when I read or heard a news story about a foster or adopted child being physically, sexually or emotionally abused by a gay or lesbian parent.
Does a male/female couple being married guarantee that a child isn't going to be endangered, neglected or abused by one of those parents? There are no guarantees in life.
This is 2008, WHEN are we all going to grasp the fact that the role of "parent(s)" is not limited to just 1 man and 1 woman?
For the numerous children in foster care it's about loss. So HOW can the Arkansas Family Council Action Committee deny ANY child in their state the right to a caring, nurturing and loving parent, whether it be a single parent or a same-sex couple parenting? Is that in the best interest of the children in their state? Obviously the Arkansas Family Council Action Committee thinks it is.
Everyday, all around our country, there are single parents and same-sex couples providing stability and love to children who are not theirs by birth.
There are also single parents providing stability and love to children who ARE theirs by birth, but one parent is absent. Should those children be taken from those parents?
My husband and I have been foster parents, in OHIO, for the past 15 years and have adopted 4 children. We have 3 older children who are raised and out of the home.
This proposal is outrageous, unnecessary, completely barbaric and in itsself, child abuse!
The Arkansas Family Council Action Committee should be ashamed of themselves. Deeply ashamed.
UGH! I'm so mad I can't see straight ! no pun intended
Trink/Di
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Dawn, thank you so much for your work as a Daily Sheet editor. You've done a really fantastic job. And in this last issue, I was delighted to see the photo of our sweet Matilda legging it up the street with Michelle in hot pursuit. Heath's wild and free spirit lives on indeed.
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Dawn, thanks for all your work at TDS editor!
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I just agree with above, THANKS so much Dawn for all your work on TDS!! Your TDSs have always been interesting to read, every one of them!
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Thank you so much, Dawn, for your excellent work!
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Thank you, Dawn, for everything!
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This is not exactly a response to the Daily Sheet, but since the Daily Sheet appears in the News Box, I figured this was probably the best place to post this.
Most of last week, Obama and Biden had a big, red headliner declaring their new partnership in the News Box at the top of the Forum. And this week, we get just a regular news bit, standard point size and down the list, that McCain chose Palin. Why is that?
While I think that most Forum members probably lean towards liberal points of view, I feel it’s presumptuous to conclude from these inclinations that the Obama/Biden ticket warrants special attention. Out of fairness to all the candidates, McCain and Palin (or any others in the race for that fact) deserve just as much recognition and emphasis on their campaign happenings. Not doing so paints somewhat of a biased picture if you ask me.
[snip]
Thanks to Kittyhawk for answering Joe's question. The best thread for this discussion is the election thread, if anyone has any other comments.
Thanks
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Thank you, Dawn!
And brava! & kudos! for a big, big job very well done..twice a week..week after week!! No small thing happening here.
Now I hope you can enjoy some extra free time! xo
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Folks, I just now saw on the rebroadcast of Larry King on CNN that San Francisco had another earthquake.
I hope all the Brokies in the city are all right! At this point, there are no reports as to intensity or damage.
Here in Miami, we are following news of tropical storm Hanna, and preparing for Hurricane Ike. Best of luck to everyone affected by both events!
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Everything good out here, Jer. Felt it but no damage and haven't reported that there was anything major near the epicenter. A 4 or 4.2.
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Everything good out here, Jer. Felt it but no damage and haven't reported that there was anything major near the epicenter. A 4 or 4.2.
Which just tickles.
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I'm glad to hear that!
I hope everyone thinks it merely tickles!
Killersmom--I hope that ankle is is good as new, and Michael, it's always a pleasure to hear from you!
Jer
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San Diego Rodeo
Sept 12-14.
http://www.sandiegorodeo.com/rodeo.htm (http://www.sandiegorodeo.com/rodeo.htm)
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I'm really looking forward to the new "Topic of the week thread" - what a great idea!
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Dawn, thanks so much for your hard work!
Jim, don't break anything.
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Dawn, what a great job you've done on TDS! I appreciate you even more since we met at the Philly Bash!! :D :D
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Hurricanes west of the International Date Line? They'd be typhoons. There's a vague feeling in US movies that Australian hurricanes are also called typhoons whereas they are, in fact, referred to as cyclones. In New Zealand, where I grew up, the term anticyclone is used to denote an area of high pressure.
And a big round of applause to MissYouSoMuch for stepping into the TDS editor's job. Thank you! I hope Planet Heath still sees plenty of you.
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Hurricanes west of the International Date Line? They'd be typhoons. There's a vague feeling in US movies that Australian hurricanes are also called typhoons whereas they are, in fact, referred to as cyclones. In New Zealand, where I grew up, the term anticyclone is used to denote an area of high pressure.
And a big round of applause to MissYouSoMuch for stepping into the TDS editor's job. Thank you! I hope Planet Heath still sees plenty of you.
Mini - in meteorological minutiae I've always found it fascinating that what a storm is called in the Pacific depends on where it is. For example, they are still called Hurricanes when they are off Mexico or when they are near Hawaii. So the same type of storm has 3 different names in the same Ocean.
And in the South Atlantic (where they were never noted before 1991) they are also called cyclones.
So is it South of the equator that they begin to be called Cyclones?
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Hurricanes west of the International Date Line? They'd be typhoons. There's a vague feeling in US movies that Australian hurricanes are also called typhoons whereas they are, in fact, referred to as cyclones. In New Zealand, where I grew up, the term anticyclone is used to denote an area of high pressure.
And a big round of applause to MissYouSoMuch for stepping into the TDS editor's job. Thank you! I hope Planet Heath still sees plenty of you.
In meteorological circles they're called anticyclones here too, but the term is considered technical and almost never used in the press.
And amen to what you said about the TDS editor!!!
Theoretically, Michael, if a tropical system could pass the equatorial barrier it would be renamed a cyclone, taking the name of the next candidate on the list. Just as a hurricane is renamed a typhoon with a different name when crossing the IDL. The lattermost has been known to happen.
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It probably is the Equator which turns a typhoon into a cyclone. They're typhoons in the South China Sea (north) and cyclones, as I said, here (south) but Indonesia straddles the Equator and I can't recall what they call them there. We don't get cyclones where I live (SE corner of Oz) but we get some pretty good weather up from the Southern Ocean. The system which developed during the sailing of the 1998 Sydney to Hobart yacht race was amazing.
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.marine.csiro.au/yacht-races/Syd_Hob/1998/albedo.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.marine.csiro.au/yacht-races/Syd_Hob/1998/&h=1086&w=632&sz=290&hl=en&start=54&um=1&usg=__Yk-6VLJ0etY4nNg1yC8PSURg8Jo=&tbnid=ddek_bMkL4BMjM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=87&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsydney%2Bto%2Bhobart%2Byacht%2B1998%26start%3D36%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26lr%3Dlang_en%26newwindow%3D1%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26sa%3DN
Death and destruction ensued.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Sydney_to_Hobart_Yacht_Race
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No cyclones/typhoons in Indonesia
"The cyclone will not form closer than approximately 500 kilometres to the equator because the Coriolis Force is too weak. It is the Coriolis Force (an effect that results from the turning of the earth) that initially makes the cyclone spiral and maintains the low pressure of the disturbance."
Take off my Geography teaching hat and return to retirement :)
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That would be why I don't know what the Indonesians call them :D Thanks, Brian. The Coriolis Effect - that's what makes the water go down the plughole one way or the other, isn't it? And it goes straight down near the Equator.
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Hmmm. Perhaps we need a weather thread? :)
- Lydia
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Actually Lydia, there is one.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=30220.msg1318079#msg1318079
It's fairly new, started in June by Charlie (HuntinBuddy).
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And the weather thread is active! 11 pages!
Now that we have all internalized Brokeback Mountatin, are we finally getting around to talking about the weather? :D :D :D
Just human nature, I suspect. Who says weather is small talk? :o
*******
DAWN I want to add my cheers to celebrate your awesome tenure at the Daily Sheet. Thank you for keeping us all on the same page, and bringing such good and interesting stories, and innovations.
I liked the quote of the day, something about how no one person can do it all? That applies to the Daily Sheet, and thanks again to the rest of the team, the formatters and contributors who make it possible for the editor to go on.
The quote reminds me of one I used on TDS about a year ago (attributed to a teacher named Marian____?) anyway, she said "You can't do it all, but you can do a lot."
You have done a lot, Dawn. I am so glad we got to meet in L.A. :-*
*****
Welcome to MissYouSoMuch! I believe I met you in L.A. as well! I know you will do a great job. :-*
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Thank you all very much, it was my pleasure, and we're all so fortunate to have MissYouSoMuch step in without missing a beat and do such a great job!
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i love the daily sheet, but i often don't remember to say so. it is something i look at every time it's up, and it just makes me happy, both the way it was and now, the way it is. i always learn something new, and often enjoy the sharing of other stuff there. thank you for all your hard work, kj
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Dawn - a big thank you from me. Wish I could have met you.
You encouraged me to write my coming-out piece. It turned out that it wasn't so much about my son's coming out - he's well able to take care of that himself - as my own, as a 'fag mum'. That was hard enough. Thank you :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
TDS is always a great read. All the best for yourself and your future plans. Remember John Lennon's ' life is what happens while you're making other plans' - and go for it!!!
love Chris xxx
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Folks--it was right about this time, I think, when we got word of BBM 2008 Wall Calendars. Will there be a 2009 calendar? Anyone know? There would be a lot of orders for the holidays, I expect.
Anyone know?
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Folks--it was right about this time, I think, when we got word of BBM 2008 Wall Calendars.
Will there be a 2009 calendar? Anyone know? There would be a lot of orders for the holidays, I expect.
Anyone know?
I happened to look for it on several calendar sites yesterday
or the day before and I did not see one for this year. Anyone
else find out anything different?
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I don't know if there will be a "Brokeback" calendar, but there will almost certainly be a Heath Ledger one, which might include a couple "Brokeback" shots. Ledger has the potential to be like Audrey Hepburn, Marilyn Monroe, and James Dean, in that he's a cinema icon taken from us too soon. I'd definitely buy it.
Frankly, the 2008 calendar was a little disappointing, only because I double-checked it against the 2007 calendar (or was it 2006? Was the movie popular enough that they had a 2006 calendar ready?), and was surprised and a little disappointed how many of the exact same shots were re-used. Also, they were clearly trying to appeal to a female demographic just looking for the cute guys, with the high number of shots with the actors solo or not touching each other (I think maybe they had the dozy embrace close-up). They avoided the reunion scene in the stairwell, the SNIT, the motel post-sex cuddle with Ennis smoking, etc. I'd only get another "Brokeback" calendar if they're willing to get outside of the little box they've been operating in.
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Could the forum publish one?
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Could the forum publish one?
It would be very expensive.
We'd have to 'buy' permission to use pictures from Focus Features, and I'm sure it would be over $ 1,000.00 per picture, so at least $ 12,000.00
Maybe we could do a forum calendar with some group shots from gatherings. I'm sure we've had at least 12 :D
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Heath Ledger - The Joker (Batman) 2009 Calendar
At megacalendars.com (http://www.megacalendars.com/product_info.php?products_id=9582&osCsid=u196r73s0835k2i79luv1smub7) and at allposters.com (http://www.allposters.com/-sp/Batman-The-Dark-Knight-Posters_i3292776_.htm)
Batman The Dark Knight 2009 Calendar
At danilo.com (http://www.danilo.com/TV_Film_Characters/Products/Batman_The_Dark_Knight_Calendar_)
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Could the forum publish one?
In my dreams -- through Cafe Press.
But, on second thought, there must be some copyright issues.
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Thanks for the replies to my calendar question. If one is available, I'll still buy one. And I don't think there was an '06 wall calendar.
Did anyone notice this news? Annie P. is going back to Brokeback territory:
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/09/annie-proulx-re.html
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Precisely, Ellen. The Cafe Press items made with the slash illustrations of the nude rears of J & E are as close to copyright violations as I want to get. And even then, I surely wouldn't wear the t-shirt in front of Annie P.!!!
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Why are there copyright issues when most of the photographs that would be on it are used on this forum everyday? They are mostly screencaps that people have taken from the DVD or from Striped Wall, IheartJake etc.
Is it because the forum would have to sell it?
Could it be given away in exchange for a donation?
I know copyright law is a minefield!
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Because we would be (ostensibly) making money off of it, without having purchased rights or sharing profits with the creators or actors.
The posts on the forum are not being sold, and fall under "fair use" as I understand it.
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Precisely, Ellen. The Cafe Press items made with the slash illustrations of the nude rears of J & E are as close to copyright violations as I want to get. And even then, I surely wouldn't wear the t-shirt in front of Annie P.!!!
LOL
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Because we would be (ostensibly) making money off of it, without having purchased rights or sharing profits with the creators or actors.
The posts on the forum are not being sold, and fall under "fair use" as I understand it.
Thank you. I thought that would be it.
I'm a great one for protection of copyright, as I don't think it's at all fair for people not to be paid for their work, too many musicians, artists, and now my niece has a partner who is an actor, in this family for me to feel any other way.
Shame about the calendar though!
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Re: today's Daily and the comment on PBR. It is one of my absolute favorite shows and one of the reasons I went to extended basic cable. Several times a week it is preceded or followed by an episode or 2 of Total Bull which gives the background on many of the producers and stock contractors as well as the bulls they've raised, bought or campaigned. Little Yellow Jacket, by the way, is the son of Yellow Jacket. Great bucking bulls, like great bull riders, are often genetically predispositioned.
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Folks,
Here's a link from Strange Maps about Absaroka, which included Wyoming. It's the first time I've ever heard about it, and the Wyoming angle might interest some here:
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/301-look-at-the-state-youre-in-absaroka/
Maybe the fellows from Finding Brokeback will be interested. The original story appeared in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/us/24wpa.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1221591965-sOxIOuQ7UsWHDIaP7Cj1Hw
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This is from Huffington Post--Alec Baldwin comments on Tina Fey as Sarah Palin, and goes on to compare Heath Ledger and Brando in BBM:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/16/alec-baldwin-tina-fey-nai_n_126857.html
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Love the new Obama ad! Thanks for the link!
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Fabulous news about Peter and David getting married. I did most of the 07 Wyoming Roadtrip with them and they were the most wonderful companions a girl could ask for.
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Thanks for the replies to my calendar question. If one is available, I'll still buy one. And I don't think there was an '06 wall calendar.
Did anyone notice this news? Annie P. is going back to Brokeback territory:
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/09/annie-proulx-re.html
I love the e-harmony ad in that link! ;D ;D
I read part of "That's Just the Way It Is" in the bookstore this weekend....Does Ray in the very first story remind anyone of a certain non-loquacious ranchhand?? I get this weird feeling when I read it.
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Here's a link about Annie P. and BBM fan fiction:
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/09/stop-sending-an.html
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I commented on that thread. I found it odd that she said most of the Jack/Ennis stuff she receives is from men--the writers I've met here on the forum have almost all been women, and they've been very clear that they only write stuff as a personal outlet, not to send to Annie P. and certainly not to publish and profit from it. She was a doll when I met her (wearing my "Brokeback got me good" T-shirt), but I guess this stuff makes her cantankerous. Fact is, the story (meaning: movie AND short story) has now grown into part of the pop culture zeitgeist, and is far beyond he original creation. Hopefully she appreciates folks like us, compared to those who're "harassing" her with bad writing and a "See, I improved your story" approach.
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She was a doll when I met her (wearing my "Brokeback got me good" T-shirt), but I guess this stuff makes her cantankerous. Fact is, the story (meaning: movie AND short story) has now grown into part of the pop culture zeitgeist, and is far beyond he original creation. Hopefully she appreciates folks like us, compared to those who're "harassing" her with bad writing and a "See, I improved your story" approach.
dback, I think she does make a distinction between us. Her reaction to the T-shit shows it. And Cactus Gal of this forum had occasion to contact her, and received a very sweet note in reply, which Cactus Gal shared with TDS readers.
And yes, the genie is out of the bottle . Brokeback belongs to history now.
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If most fanfiction/slash writers are women , but most of the writers of pornish "improvements" of BBM are "I'm-not-gay-but" men who send their pieces to Annie Proulx, it suggests to me that these are people who have some kind of agenda. Their behaviour seems to be some kind of harassment.
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And AP knows all about harassment. She's suffered plenty of it for daring to write BBM.
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Maybe it's not meant as harrassment. Maybe the people who write think she will genuinely be interested and feel complimented. I suppose I'm a bit surprised that she's surprised - fanfiction is so popular, and Brokeback Mountain is an obvious subject. I suppose I'm surprised that it's almost all men that write it, as I thought women tended to write more - maybe it's just men who have the nerve to send it to the author?
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Maybe it's not meant as harrassment. Maybe the people who write think she will genuinely be interested and feel complimented. I suppose I'm a bit surprised that she's surprised - fanfiction is so popular, and Brokeback Mountain is an obvious subject. I suppose I'm surprised that it's almost all men that write it, as I thought women tended to write more - maybe it's just men who have the nerve to send it to the author?
I don't think the "I'm not gay, but" men who write pornish "improvements" on BBM are sending them to her as a compliment. There's something fishy about them. I wonder if they aren't homophobic heterosexual men or equally homophobic closeted homosexual men or smart alecs who have completely missed the point of BBM. Other fanfiction pieces written by women may well be intended as sincere tributes to Annie Proulx.
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Giving the story a happy ending seems an odd expression of homophobia though - unless by doing that, it's maybe denying the homophobia in the story? It's all very puzzling.
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Giving the story a happy ending seems an odd expression of homophobia though - unless by doing that, it's maybe denying the homophobia in the story? It's all very puzzling.
Yes, it is puzzling. But the happy ending completely undermines the point of the story and if done consciously sabotages it and denies its validity and the experience of homosexual men like Ennis, the character who was inspired by Annie Proulx's thoughtful observation of an older man in a Wyoming bar who like many others of his time and place might very well not have been able to fix it and just had to stand it.
I wonder how many of the "improving" male fanfic writers bothered to read her other stories and understand her essential themes as summarized so beautifully by garyd over on the Annie Proulx thread. How many bother to find her other gay and lesbian characters, including those who can live according to their nature and those whose homosexuality is an essential part of who they are, but not the source of their problems in life?
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I wonder how many of the "improving" male fanfic writers bothered to read her other stories and understand her essential themes as summarized so beautifully by garyd over on the Annie Proulx thread. How many bother to find her other gay and lesbian characters, including those who can live according to their nature and those whose homosexuality is an essential part of who they are, but not the source of their problems in life?
I get the feeling she is ruffled precisely because she thinks these writers are not serious about exploring her body of work, and also I think she has trouble with the idea that someone can "improve" on her spare writing (as was noted in the other thread -- 60+ re-writes of BBM) --
one point made often by writers who work seriously at their craft is how easy others think it is to write. Georgie Anne Geyer just used this story recently -- she sat next to a general at dinner, someone asked him what he will do when he retires. He answered: "write a book." GeorgieA.G. says she responded -- "and when I retire, I'm going to be a general."
In other words, I presume Annie has a very sophisticated appreciation for good writing.
She also said she detects a faint suggestion from the male writers that because they are male, they can write about Ennis and Jack and the entire subject better than she can.
Which I don't doubt is an issue, because IMO one of the most amazing things about the story is how right she got it -- it almost seems like a miracle. Plenty of men have remarked on this as well.
******
IMHO:
1) The comment seems 1-dimensional -- that is, we all can name some other aspects to this -- other reasons why BBM has impacted AP's personal life, other writers of slash besides men who claim to be straight, etc.
2) The comment seems very much in the moment -- that TODAY this aspect of the aftermath of BBM is uppermost on her mind. Another day, it might be something else.
3) The comment may have been edited by WSJ. They are putting together an interview to enlighten their audience, many of whom have no knowledge of the slash world. Probablhy WSJ found this answer somewhat "sexy" and the closest they can get to any current commentary on BBM from the author.
So many of us are here because we had no choice but to work out the story in our minds. Some have done it by analysis of the scenes and the characters. Some do it by reading AP's other work. Some do it by writing slash and sharing it.
If you're a slash writer, you do what you gotta do, and as long as it's right for you (and doesn't break any laws) you just go on doing what you gotta do. I don't see any controversy.
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The article about Matthew Shepard in today's TDS
prompted me to think if anyone who visited L.A. last
month for the BBM screening, visited the corner of
Santa Monica Blvd. and Crescent Heights (one block
east of the Silver Spoon restaurant). It is officially
named by the city of West Hollywood, the Matthew
Shepard Human Rights Triangle (as it is so shaped)
and there is a small park and a plaque is installed with
information and a tribute to Matthew Shepard there.
I should have thought to point it out to interested parties.
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Definitely have to get back to L.A. so you can show it to me next time, Lyle!
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And that new planet orbiting that sun-like star? I guess it's our very own Planet Heath orbiting our greatly mourned boy. ;)
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That’s a lovely thought, but keep in mind that this is a very unusual planet. The first ever photographed outside this system. The star itself is rather ordinary, by cosmic standards. So it might not be the star that’s...
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That piece about Joan Darrah realizing how Don't Ask, Don't Tell would've affected her partner, had she died at the Pentagon assault, made me think of how society's 'code' when Jack died caused Ennis to not know about the accident for months. What if the postcard had gotten missed? how long would Ennis have waited to call Jack? Would he simply assume Jack quit? What happened was bad enough, what with Lureen lumping him into the category of one of Jack's 'friends.' can you imagine how you'd feel, to have had something so powerful with someone, and it was barely a blip on people's radar? We've been talking about that on another thread, ie, what was the outward evidence to the world of Jack and Ennis? Was there any?
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If Ennis had been in a state where he actually could reflect on what Lureen said in that moment, I'm sure he would have been pleased to hear her refer to him as a friend....
Ennis deepest fear was that anyone should find out about them.
I don't think he really wanted any outward evidence to the world.....
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^^^^^^
Got a think about that....He says, "BBM" 3 x after Jack dies, to different people, when he never said it when Jack was alive-I sense part of him wants the world to know. Too late, of course.
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^^^^^^
Got a think about that....He says, "BBM" 3 x after Jack dies, to different people, when he never said it when Jack was alive-I sense part of him wants the world to know. Too late, of course.
Having realized how deeply Jack loved him and getting in touch with his own feelings, maybe Ennis would even subconsciously want the relationship to be acknowledged and affirmed as he affirms Junior's forthcoming marriage. Perhaps? But perhaps also, he might realize that the words "Brokeback Mountain" don't have much meaning other than the literal geographic sense for most other people - scenic feature, summer sheep pasturage, state forest, hunting and fishing site. But his not entirely unrealistic fear of the homophobic environment would conflict with this wish for validation by others.
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Bonobos and dolphins?
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Great Daily Sheet MissYouSoMuch - a wide array of interesting stories once again.
Thanks so much for all your hard work!
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Yes, wonderful work keeping The Daily Sheet informative and lively! Thanks!
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Bonobos and dolphins?
I was going to guess dolphins too, Fritz... Though I'm not entirely confident of that answer. I know that Dolphins use their sonar to physically buzz each other during mating. Well, they buzz anything they are curious about, but having been buzzed once (!) I can say it tickles and feels nice. I wouldn't be surprised to hear they do this simply for pleasure.
I just don't know about actual intercourse. Do they?
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I've heard that they do it frequently, just for fun. Bonobos (pygmy chimpanzees) too, in all sorts of combinations.
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I thought it would be apes......no?
Re: Clay Aiken-his mother was 'stunned' when he told her? hmmmmm.....
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The article about Matthew Shepard in today's TDS
prompted me to think if anyone who visited L.A. last
month for the BBM screening, visited the corner of
Santa Monica Blvd. and Crescent Heights (one block
east of the Silver Spoon restaurant). It is officially
named by the city of West Hollywood, the Matthew
Shepard Human Rights Triangle (as it is so shaped)
and there is a small park and a plaque is installed with
information and a tribute to Matthew Shepard there.
I should have thought to point it out to interested parties.
Yes, you SHOULD HAVE, young man (and birthday boy)! But we love you so you're forgiven.
But this is yet something else to see on my next trip to Hollywood, and I do intend to return. So many things I want to see that I missed the first time. Goldwyn Theater, another BBM screening, please!
I was noticing the Daily Sheet mention of the Mitcham stamp and wondering if it had been mentioned yet that one of Hollywood's
greatest actresses and gay icons is now on a U.S. postage stamp. Yep, the Bette Davis first-class stamp was released last week. It's a beauty. I cannot believe my p.o. actually got them in--I bought three sheets of them. Makes paying bills a little easier.
If the Bette stamp was already mentioned and is now "old news" please forgive me. Until I get this g--d---- computer fixed and then get off dial-up I just don't have the time to go through dozens of pages at a clip.
Goodnight everyone, and R.I.P., Paul. We lost a good one yesterday.
Mark
mod ~ Fixed quote
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For Jake fans like me, this is bad news. His parents have called it quits:
http://www.celebuzz.com/jake-maggie-gyllenhaals-parents-split-s53571/
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I thought Switzerland also wasn't a member of UN...??
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I thought Switzerland also wasn't a member of UN...??
By unanimous decision, Switzerland became the 190th United Nations Member State this afternoon at the opening of the fifty-seventh session of the General Assembly.
10/09/2002
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^^^^^^^^^
OK... Thanks for the info!!
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THE DAILY SHEET -OCTOBER 7th, 2008
DONATING GAY BOOKS TO WASILLA PUBLIC LIBRARY
“In response to ongoing questions about whether Sarah Palin tried to ban books when she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, activist Michael Petrelis from San Francisco has donated two gay-themed children’s books to the Wasilla Public Library.
“Petrelis sent the library Heather Has Two Mommies and Daddy’s Roommate.
“Library Director KJ Martin-Albright told the local Frontiersman newspaper the books will go through a process, then either be placed on the shelves or sold by the Friends of the Library group.”
A copy of our Beyond Brokeback and a DVD of Brokeback Mountain have been sent to the Wasilla Public Library on behalf of the Forum via Amazon.
Here’s a chance for forum members to get involved: You can order books and other movies, related to GLBT, through the Forum’s link to Amazon and have those items donated to the library.
The library’s contact information is:
Wasilla Public Library
391 N Main St
Wasilla, AK 99654-7021
United States
Tel. (907) 376-5913
(Amazon requires a phone number.)
Tell us what you sent in the Respond to The Daily Sheet thread.
I just send "And Tango Makes Three (http://www.amazon.com/Tango-Makes-Three-Peter-Parnell/dp/0689878451/ref=cm_lmf_tit_6_rsrsrs0)". I'm sorry, it's not in the Forum's store because it's a children's book. I sent this book because I think it's important to raise tolerant and open-minded children (and because I love penguins) ;)
I included a gift note that says:
Donated in memory of Heath Ledger.
SARA**
- Member of the Ultimate Brokeback Forum
** that's my first name
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Thanks, andreavera, for letting us know about your contribution. It’s a wonderful story. What a great choice!
(By the way, there’s a story on penguins in yesterday’s Daily Sheet. :))
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This week’s Question: What street is reputed to be the world's steepest?
Well, my only guess is the street I read was the steepest in
San Francisco, so I took a cab down it to experience it (and
Lombard Street, too). My guess is Filbert Street.
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Thank you for the reference to Diana Ossana's interview. It was worth every minute that it took to read it.
JT/EDM
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Or maybe Snake Alley in Burlington, Iowa? It's described as the twistiest street west of Lombard.
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Or maybe Italienska vägen in Båstad, southern Sweden?
It's very steep!!
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I really enjoyed the interview with Diana Ossana. It seemed to bring back feelings about the film which I thought had finally faded away. And then the question
The steepest street in the world is Baldwin Street, Dunedin, NZ
Important to me as I am going there in 2 weeks to begin a search for a house. I will be fulfilling a dream to move to Dunedin. Have walked up the street, found driving it too scary so won't be buying a house there.
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Sorry but you have got me on my dream city :)
Baldwin Street, Dunedin - obviously the steepest part is a bit further down and hidden
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg218%2Fbrianr44%2Fbaldwin2.jpg&hash=3453c531bd111df2619ec720c17182380994b64e)
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And the proof. Taken in 2006.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg218%2Fbrianr44%2Fbaldwin1.jpg&hash=0aa3c62abb5064b7599ea6babd40820a73fae41e)
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Scary indeed, Brian!
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And the proof. Taken in 2006.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg218%2Fbrianr44%2Fbaldwin1.jpg&hash=0aa3c62abb5064b7599ea6babd40820a73fae41e)
That's just because they haven't seen Italienska vägen in Båstad!! :D :D
(By the look of it, it's actually steeper than the part shown in your pic, Brian!)
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Appreciate so much the D. Ossana transcript!
It's a great read ...as is TDS. Many THX for all your hard work on it.
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Cowboy jokes through the ages--Love it!!! This has gnash written all over it. When I read about stem the rose being changed to Rosebud I nearly choked laughing.
Bravo, Daily Sheet workers!!! You made a crappy day much better.
Mark
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THE DAILY SHEET -OCTOBER 7th, 2008
DONATING GAY BOOKS TO WASILLA PUBLIC LIBRARY
“In response to ongoing questions about whether Sarah Palin tried to ban books when she was mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, activist Michael Petrelis from San Francisco has donated two gay-themed children’s books to the Wasilla Public Library.
snip...
I just send "And Tango Makes Three (http://www.amazon.com/Tango-Makes-Three-Peter-Parnell/dp/0689878451/ref=cm_lmf_tit_6_rsrsrs0)". I'm sorry, it's not in the Forum's store because it's a children's book. I sent this book because I think it's important to raise tolerant and open-minded children (and because I love penguins) ;)
I included a gift note that says:
Donated in memory of Heath Ledger.
SARA**
- Member of the Ultimate Brokeback Forum
** that's my first name
That's a great selection, Sara. The Forum received a thank you note this week from Wasilla saying thanks for the copy of Beyond Brokeback and the DVD of Brokeback Mountain that we sent on behalf of the Forum.
Do you think they're still scratching their heads or that they've figured out why all the donations? :D
- Lydia
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as a wordsmith and former shoe salesman, i speak from experience that today's answer is aiglet (sometimes aglet).
jack
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Cool about Michael Feinstein & his partner.
I had not seen that anywhere else, only here, TDS!
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LOL@ Italienska vägen!!!
I've been trying to find a picture of it, but couldn't find one.... I'll keep on trying...... :D
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I was in a diner this morning called The Square Meal in a dot on the map about 100 miles from my home. It was a place with MCCAIN-PALIN bumper stickers at the cash register and lots of hunters chowing down and the place reminded me of the cafe where Ennis morosely eats his pie when Cassie and Karl walk in. And damned if when I didn't start reading my paper I saw this article on Annie Proulx. It broke my heart to read her quote that she wished she had never written BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN due to all of the plays, stories, and letters she gets with other people's versions of the tale. I hate that this has turned her sour on the story. The story painted her as sort of a bitter outcast, contemptuous of the people in the nearby town to her ranch, and generally unhappy. I have always wanted to write and tell her what the story meant to me but even though I wouldn't have dared to rewrite it or even say what I wished would have happened I don't think now is the time for a fan letter. Maybe one day she will have mellowed. Who knows? I wish her happiness and all the best. And I hope one day I will be able to write that letter.
Mark
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I hope so too, Mark.
I think it will be nice in the future if letters like that can restore some balance in her experience of her story. I mean, that she will come to understand that not all the readers are insensitive nut cases who don't understand her writing and just want to improve it, but that it has had such an owerwhelming impact on people too. And made their (our) lives so much better.
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as a wordsmith and former shoe salesman, i speak from experience that today's answer is aiglet (sometimes aglet).
jack
In crossword puzzles in the Northeast, Jack, it is almost always spelled "aglet" - I say almost because, although I've never seen it spelled with an "i" after the "a," the day I say that will be the day "aiglet" appears...
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Below is a link from Focus features CEO James Shamus re Milk, which includes a mention of BBM and the marketing strategy of both films:
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/10/milk-producer-j.html
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Today's question: where Mark Twain got his name. It's from the old riverboats. A weighted line was thrown over to ascertain the amount of clear water.
"Mark twain" meant there was 12 feet (2 fathoms) of water thus a clear passage. ("Twain" meaning "two". "Mark one" indicated one fathom.)
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^^^
I agree with the above, regarding context, but I always thought the "twain" referred to the "twine" -- which was the line thrown over the side. Mark twine -- which was used as a measure (thus, marked.) So "Mark Twine" is a command.
Are there any more answers than our two? :D
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I have heard that twain, as in two ("Never the twain shall meet") is indeed the mark of enough clearance for a river steamboat, but that the word was used as a unit, namely two fathoms or 12 feet. The word "half-twain" was used to mark 6 feet, and "mark, twain" indicated enough depth to permit passage.
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Thanks for posting the candle site again. I'd not gone there before.
In case anyone is interested, I started a group for Barack Obama. It is under "Barac"
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=barac
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I have heard that twain, as in two ("Never the twain shall meet") is indeed the mark of enough clearance for a river steamboat, but that the word was used as a unit, namely two fathoms or 12 feet. The word "half-twain" was used to mark 6 feet, and "mark, twain" indicated enough depth to permit passage.
yup, what fritz said... and he should know.
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Thanks for posting the candle site again. I'd not gone there before.
In case anyone is interested, I started a group for Barack Obama. It is under "Barac"
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=barac
Cool! I've lit a candle. Thanks!
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Today's question: where Mark Twain got his name. It's from the old riverboats. A weighted line was thrown over to ascertain the amount of clear water.
"Mark twain" meant there was 12 feet (2 fathoms) of water thus a clear passage. ("Twain" meaning "two". "Mark one" indicated one fathom.)
That's what I've heard too.
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I'm a bit behind in my reading here, but iI want to say the Daily Sheet brought back a very intense memory of a long ago evening when I first watched the documentary about Harvey Milk:
Somewhere in Des Moines or San Antonio there is a young gay person who all the sudden realizes that he or she is gay; knows that if their parents find out they will be tossed out of the house, their classmates will taunt the child, and the Anita Bryant’s and John Briggs’ are doing their part on TV. And that child has several options: staying in the closet, and suicide.And then one day that child might open the paper that says ‘Homosexual elected in San Francisco’ and there are two new options: the option is to go to California, or stay in San Antonio and fight.
And didn't it happen, too. Change really does happen - yes we can lick this damn ranch into shape.
Thanks very much for printing that speech.
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Today's question: where Mark Twain got his name. It's from the old riverboats. A weighted line was thrown over to ascertain the amount of clear water.
"Mark twain" meant there was 12 feet (2 fathoms) of water thus a clear passage. ("Twain" meaning "two". "Mark one" indicated one fathom.)
That's what I've heard too.
That's the truth: the paddles on the flat-bottomed, steam-driven riverboats needed a certain depth of water to safely function without scraping the bottom of the river. It was important to check it frequently because the depth of the silt on the bottom of the river was constantly changing, due to the powerful rush of the river and the constant amount of water-borne particles which were continuously settling out or being picked up, carried for a while then deposited elsewhere.
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LOVED what Alec Baldwin said about Heath Ledger and Brokeback Mountain. I still haven't gotten completely over the whole Academy Award thing, so I deeply appreciate this kind of affirmation, especially from someone in the business.
Thanks for printing it, I would never have seen it otherwise, and it put a smile on my face ;D
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Response to TDS question:
From memory and NOT using google:
I think Michelangelo's Pieta is signed on one of the figure's cross ties.
This would have been his first important sculpture, done I believe,
when he was about 20 or 21. An amazing achievement, signed or
unsigned.
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Brokeback Mountain opera production has been suspended:
http://broadwayworld.com/article/Brokeback_Mountain_and_Disney_Opera_Shelved_After_Mortiers_Departure_20010101
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The Prohibition and Repeal Amendments.
Thou shalt not enjoy drinking.
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18th amendment repealed by the 21st
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(off to research more challenging "Question of the week") ;D
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OMG-I thought I recognized Beam in 'Quantum of Solace'-It's Randall!! ;D what an idjit-how could I not realize? What kind of BROKIE am I???? He was really good, too...
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I knew Randall right away. Sort of... I watched the credits at the beginning of the movie and saw the name "David Harbour" and remembered that name from BBM's credits.
Gotta admit I didn't know which role David Harbour played in BBM, though!
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LOL I wish I had seen TDS before I saw James Bond last night. I didn't recognize Randall at all, so what kind of Brokie am I? I agree, Canstandit, he was good. He had some good lines.
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(He looked better with the beard.) :D
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Fritz... he sure did!
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WHOA! Did y'all see this?! Our Jack is featured on Towleroad!
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/fort-myers-flor.html
Way to go, Jack!
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Fritz... he sure did!
Yep, you guys are right--MUCH better with the beard! Facial hair, I mean--not LaShawn! :D
Mark
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WHOA! Did y'all see this?! Our Jack is featured on Towleroad!
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/fort-myers-flor.html
Way to go, Jack!
Amen! Jack, you get a HUGE "Atta Boy!" with this! A lotta guts that took.
Mark
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Next stop, photograph and article in the "Advocate" I hope. It would be very well deserved!
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WHOA! Did y'all see this?! Our Jack is featured on Towleroad!
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/fort-myers-flor.html
Way to go, Jack!
I'm the editor of the gay paper in Miami/Fort Lauderdale--what is the quickest way for me to get in touch with this Jack fellow?
My email is drenzi@southfloridablade.com
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Hi danrenzi --
I'll PM Jack about your post. I don't know if he's on-line right now.
:)
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I'm the editor of the gay paper in Miami/Fort Lauderdale--what is the quickest way for me to get in touch with this Jack fellow?
My email is drenzi@southfloridablade.com
Hello DanRenzi.
I've sent Jack a private message, with a link to this post. He should see it shortly, and reach out to you.
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(off to research more challenging "Question of the week") ;D
hey... if the answer has to do with boots, booze or book lore, i'm there
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my public awaits, mr demille. do i have the right lighting?
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.afi.com%2F100movies%2Fuser-uploads%2Fpost1112.jpg&hash=03325e646969bc9b21287980f4b5dd84d12df7ec)
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Egad, I was just thinking about "Sunset Boulevard" this afternoon--I share my birthday with Joe Gillis (shudder). I'd like to listen to Glenn Close's brauvura performance as Norma in the Webber musical; the creepy climax is a knockout. ("This is the staircase of the palace/And they're waiting for your dance" "Ah yes....now I remember...")
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WHOA! Did y'all see this?! Our Jack is featured on Towleroad!
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/fort-myers-flor.html
Way to go, Jack!
WOW Jack.....!!!
That was a really courageous and brave thing to do!!!!
You really deserve a lot of cred for that!!!!!
To stand alone in the sight of everyone like that, with all the risks that involves in the US.....you're an example to us all.
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my public awaits, mr demille. do i have the right lighting?
:D :D ;D
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my public awaits, mr demille. do i have the right lighting?
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.afi.com%2F100movies%2Fuser-uploads%2Fpost1112.jpg&hash=03325e646969bc9b21287980f4b5dd84d12df7ec)
LMAO! I can just hear you screaming, "Nax! Nax!"
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it seems i have gone viral
http://florida.bilerico.com/2008/11/one_man_one_clear_message.php
http://strelitziamusings.blogspot.com/2008/11/meet-jack.html
http://bamboonation.blogspot.com/2008/11/protest-ofone.html
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Was this covered in the Fort Myers paper, Jack?
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It seems you made yourself a celebrity Jack!
And well deserved...
Congrats! ;)
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Was this covered in the Fort Myers paper, Jack?
nope, i called a nearby tv station with a tip, lone demonstrator, but no one showed. not news enough i guess. :P
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stay tuned, that "celebrity" may have given birth to a grass roots movement.
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For once, a good virus!!!!
jack you're a star :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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saturday i "take lunch" with the editor of the SOUTH FLORIDA BLADE, a local business couple who commented positively on the TOWLEROAD article, a gent who was the only one to stop by to see if there was any demonstration, and a locally based blogger. we will be brainstorming and assessing resources and skills towards building a grass roots marriage equality movement here in sw florida.
who knew ??? :)
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You work it, Jack!!!!
-
saturday i "take lunch" with the editor of the SOUTH FLORIDA BLADE, a local business couple who commented positively on the TOWLEROAD article, a gent who was the only one to stop by to see if there was any demonstration, and a locally based blogger. we will be brainstorming and assessing resources and skills towards building a grass roots marriage equality movement here in sw florida.
You mean there isn't already a movement in SW Florida??
Are you counting Tampa/St. Pete in that region?
I'm a little surprised by that.
But I wouldn't be surprised if it took another 30 years to get to where we are in CA right now.
Florida still hasn't changed their official state song.
Way down upon de Swanee Ribber,
Far, far away,
Dere's wha my heart is turning ebber,
Dere's wha de old folks stay.
All up and down de whole creation
Sadly I roam,
Still longing for de old plantation,
And for de old folks at home.
All de world am sad and dreary,
Eb-rywhere I roam;
Oh, darkeys, how my heart grows weary,
Far from de old folks at home!
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there is definitely political action in the tampa/st pete nexus, and a whimper around gainesville, but naples/ft myers has been relegated to red closeted hell apparently.
perhaps if we have something to offer, a base, we can eventually connect as another point on the network. it amazes me that there is literally NO action here at all.
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best of luck, Jack, have a nice lunch, fingers Xed
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saturday i "take lunch" with the editor of the SOUTH FLORIDA BLADE, a local business couple who commented positively on the TOWLEROAD article, a gent who was the only one to stop by to see if there was any demonstration, and a locally based blogger. we will be brainstorming and assessing resources and skills towards building a grass roots marriage equality movement here in sw florida.who knew ??? :)
That's just great!!!
Good luck with it!!!
That just proves that even a lonely demonstrator can really make a difference!!
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Zone Improvement Plan!
Before the codes, where we lived was New Orleans 14, Louisiana. The 14th postal zone of the city. When the codes were introduced, we became New Orleans LA 70114.
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on an entirely different front...
what a fantastic day i had today. this impression is of course enhanced by the gazillion cups of good columbian coffee i drank and an unfortunate sugar relapse brought on by the arrival of a couple plates of free donut based sugar coated pastries. i am high as a kite on sugar, caffeine and serendipity.
that little spontaneous protestation of mine may very well have generated something much needed in this area, a sense of community NOT based in bars and tricking.
as a result of the publication of that picture of me with the sign, contacts were made locally, and nationally. i asked some of the folks i had met if they would be interested in working towards a response action to the passage of the various propositions, and the complet lack of participation in a nationwide action in this area, despite the obvious presence of an appreciable gay population.
everyone i asked signed on to at least a meet up, and we were joined by the editor of south florida's online news source of record, dan renzi of the SOUTH FLORIDA BLADE, who drove all the way over from the east coast to participate.
it may have been the best brainstorming session in my experience. the different backgrounds and talents seemed to mesh without effort. we have the backing of the BLADE for sources and expertise, and we have a plan going forward.
we are creating a sw florida gay resource and community blog. it will be slow going at first, while we build a readership, but there is plenty to do on the front end to create a product that will interest people and be informative and relevant.
our focus is to provide a place for a real COMMUNITY to coalesce. as unlikely as it seems, i believe its going to happen. serendipity seems to be on our side. the little neighborhood coffee house i selected as a meeting place, in lieu of the more obvious starbucks was revealed after our purpose was discussed to be gay owned, and will offer its facility for meetings after closing time, should we wish it, an has agreed to be our first listing as a gay welcoming business. we will be canvassing area retailers and services and relay our experiences locally as a community service and resource.
we will be busy little campers, and we will hopefully, by our next confab, double our number by recruiting at least one friend or ally each.
it is an exciting time, and i suspect aided by a current not of our making.
(and dan kept referring to me as famous ;D hee hee)
updates and links will follow as available
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Zone Improvement Plan!
Before the codes, where we lived was New Orleans 14, Louisiana. The 14th postal zone of the city. When the codes were introdiced, we became New Orleans LA 70114.
We didn't have a zip code when we lived in Germany.
We had A.P.O. 's
Ours was 09039
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Drat! I finally know an answer but get beaten to the draw before i can post it!
I can add that ZIP Codes began in 1963. My siblings remember that; I do not, as I was only four.
I do remember when zip plus four started--anyone else?
Mark
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I vaguely remember that zip codes were a new thing in the early 60's
When we moved to Germany I was 7 years old, and letter-writing was much more common than making phone calls. And a lot less expensive. We had to use the Trans-Atlantic cable for phone calls, and in the mid-60's it still had very limited capacity. Calls had to be planned way ahead of time. I remember my mother writing back and forth one year to her sister in New Jersey to coordinate the date and time for the Christmas call.
I also remember seeing this guy a lot more often in them earlier days:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2Fzip2.jpg&hash=2f792c5ded64ba42acb8a76cd64b7c7e203bded0)
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I can add that ZIP Codes began in 1963. My siblings remember that; I do not, as I was only four.
Mark
Are you sure? I thought it was 1965.
Last week’s Question: Which is the only repealed amendment to the US Constitution and what did it deal with?
The answer: The 18th amendment, which issued in Prohibition, was repealed by the 21st amendment.
"I'll drink to that!"
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I can add that ZIP Codes began in 1963. My siblings remember that; I do not, as I was only four.
Mark
Are you sure? I thought it was 1965.
I think it was 1963
In June 1962, the Presidentially appointed Advisory Board of the Post Office Department, after a study of its overall mechanization problems, made several primary recommendations. One was that the Department give priority to the development of a coding system, an idea that had been under consideration in the Department for a decade or more.
Over the years, a number of potential coding programs had been examined and discarded. Finally, in 1963, the Department selected a system advanced by department officials, and, on April 30, 1963, Postmaster General John A. Gronouski announced that the ZIP Code would begin on July 1, 1963.
http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blmailus4.htm (http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blmailus4.htm)
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ZIP Codes began on July 1,1963. In an episode of THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW from January, 1964 (thus filmed a month earlier) Rob gets a big laugh by saying that Sally gave a date her address, phone number and even her ZIP code.
Mark (who never thought he'd see his small town go from having one zip code to four)
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What a sweet post, LInda!!! I am so thankful for you, too, and understand many of your feelings. I give thanks for all of the great people I have met via BBM. I love you all and wish for you a happy holiday. Anyone gets lonely just e-mail me. Because I will be doing the same to you! :)
Mark
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When I first visited L.A., I thought of all the places
this would probably be the place I would move.
The second time I went, I realized it wasn’t.
What happened that SECOND time?
Mooska, RickB, Welles, Sparky, Sunspot, WLAGuy, Gnash and
all the rest of us here in Los Angeles say, a la Jack Benny:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fevents.clowningaround.com%2Fimages%2FLookalike%2520Photos%2Fjack%2520benny.jpg&hash=7deeecacc90922dacf419c7b6690885c15c797f9)
"Well!"
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I ♥ L.A.
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ME, TOO! AND ALL OF THE GUYS IN IT! Well, maybe just Mooska, RickB, welles, gnash, sparky, sunspot, WLAguy, and a certain male hustler named Raoul who frequents the IHOP on Santa Monica Blvd... Oops, that just slipped out! (Back in August it just popped up--honk honk!) (Ernestine Tomlin snort)
Mark
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...and Jake.
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Well, of course! That goes without saying! Even though he WASN'T there when I came to visit this summer! >:(
Maybe next time?
Mark
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What happened that SECOND time?
Mooska, RickB, Welles, Sparky, Sunspot, WLAGuy, Gnash and
all the rest of us here in Los Angeles say, a la Jack Benny:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fevents.clowningaround.com%2Fimages%2FLookalike%2520Photos%2Fjack%2520benny.jpg&hash=7deeecacc90922dacf419c7b6690885c15c797f9)
"Well!"
LOL!!
~~Pets Lyle~~
Nothing happened Lyle. I just realized that LA was just too big for this country gal. But then I would have had all of you to get me found!
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What happened that SECOND time?
Nothing happened Lyle. I just realized that LA was just too big for this country gal.
She's right! Here we're just down home country folk. And San Francisco...well, it's just like Dollywood! I see people who look like Dolly nearly every day.
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And of course that means you aren't Jack Benny in this story Lyle...more like Zsa Zsa in Green Acres.
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She's right! Here we're just down home country folk. And San Francisco...well, it's just like Dollywood! I see people who look like Dolly nearly every day.
:D :D :D :D
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And of course that means you aren't Jack Benny in this story Lyle...more like Zsa Zsa in Green Acres.
"Vy, of course, dahling! Shall I makes you some hotscakes?"
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EVA was the Gabor sister in GREEN ACRES, BTW. Her ticket to immortality. She is missed.
The other sister was immortalized in the Looney Tunes cartoon (1959) A WITCH'S TANGLED HARE, in which Bugs Bunny asks Witch Hazel,
"Neeeeeeeeeuh, what's up, Zsa Zsa?" :D
Mark
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EVA was the Gabor sister in GREEN ACRES, BTW. Her ticket to immortality. She is missed.
The other sister was immortalized in the Looney Tunes cartoon (1959) A WITCH'S TANGLED HARE, in which Bugs Bunny asks Witch Hazel,
"Neeeeeeeeeuh, what's up, Zsa Zsa?" :D
Mark
Yeah, I remembered this after posting. But I was sure that someone from Hooterville would point this out. Thanks Mr. Haney.
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I would prefer Mr. Kimball...well, I wouldn't PREFER Mr. Kimball, I'd like to be CALLED Mr. Kimball. Actually maybe I WOULD prefer Mr. Kimball...he's kind of cute. Not like Eb...or is it Flow? No, Flo's the waitress on ALICE. She works at Alice's restaurant. No, Arlo Guthrie was in ALICE'S RESTAURANT. He didn't WORK there, he was just IN there. Or did he SING there? I couldn't tell WHAT he did--he had so much hair. Boy, it'd take a ton of shampoo to wash HIS hair. Well, not a TON--you don't measure shampoo that way. Speaking of hair, Mrs. Douglas sure has a lot, too--or is it one of those Eva Gabor WIGS? Or is it Zsa Zsa who wears the wigs? Maybe I can figure it out over some hotscakes... ;D
Happy Thanksgiving, Michael--and everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love,
Mark
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“There is no actual gay relationship, but the two male leads share a kiss and it is being hailed as a breakthrough in Indian cinema.
As to what kind of a breakthrough this is--one has to realize that men
and women rarely if ever kiss in Bollywood films! Much less share a
bed.
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This week’s Question: Who was the only US president granted a patent, and for what?
The President who came to mind is Thomas Jefferson, because I seem
to recall that he had a couple inventions around his home, but as for what that might be...hmmm. I can't think of anything, so how about
some kind of weather related instrument?
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Abraham Lincoln
As a young man, Abraham Lincoln took a boatload of merchandise down the Mississippi River from New Salem to New Orleans. At one point the boat slid onto a dam and was set free only after heroic efforts. In later years, while traveling on the Great Lakes, Lincoln’s ship ran a foul of a sandbar. These two similar experiences led him to conceive his invention. Abraham Lincoln received Patent #6,469 for "A Device for Buoying Vessels Over Shoals" on May 22, 1849.
http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventors/a/Abraham_Lincoln.htm (http://inventors.about.com/od/lstartinventors/a/Abraham_Lincoln.htm)
"The introduction of patent laws one of the three most important developments in the world's history, along with the discovery of America and the perfection of printing." - Abraham Lincoln, 1858
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You're right ... it was Abraham Lincoln for his 'device to lift boats over shoals' ... which was never built.
-
1st US President to be granted a patent-I'm going to just guess Teddy Roosevelt. I have no idea, of course. LOL
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Response to TDS question:
What was the only sculpture signed by Michelangelo.
From memory and NOT using google:
I think Michelangelo's Pieta is signed on one of the figure's cross ties.
This would have been his first important sculpture, done I believe,
when he was about 20 or 21. An amazing achievement, signed or
unsigned.
So?
Was I right?
I don't like being this COMPLETELY ignored...! :D ;D ::)
I mean, what am I?
Chopped liver??
And by the way Jack, that was a GREAT pix of you.
Very daring as well.
You looked like a man on a mission.
Good work.
(Just stumbled onto it after going back and rereading.)
Where have I been?
In a haze of gluttony.
But that's no excuse. :">
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So?
Was I right?
I don't like being this COMPLETELY ignored...! :D ;D ::)
I mean, what am I?
Chopped liver??
You weren’t ignored! Sorry you missed this. Here’s a reprint:
Last week’s Question: Michelangelo signed only one of his sculptures, which one was it?
The answer: The only one of his sculptures that Michelangelo signed was the The Pieta, completed in 1500; congratulations to Rosewood, who knew without googling!
-
So?
Was I right?
I don't like being this COMPLETELY ignored...! :D ;D ::)
I mean, what am I?
Chopped liver??
You weren’t ignored! Sorry you missed this. Here’s a reprint:
Last week’s Question: Michelangelo signed only one of his sculptures, which one was it?
The answer: The only one of his sculptures that Michelangelo signed was the The Pieta, completed in 1500; congratulations to Rosewood, who knew without googling!
:D ;D
Thank you, m'dear.
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This week’s Question: What do these terms have in common - Sailor, Dead Leaf, Paper Kite, Blue Striped Crow, Great Egg Fly?
Gee, let me think about that one.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FBluestripedcrow.jpg&hash=f81a19ed1238b8c72c2096176d8adae179ffea9c)
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oh i knew that too... :P :P
i was just rather preoccupied this past week.
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Well OK, guys! Are you going to tell us the answer or not?
BTW, beautiful butterfly, John.
I dated a lepidopterist once but we broke up. He couldn't be apart from his MOTHer.
Mark
P.S. Did you know that the original name for butterflies was flutterbys? It's true!!! Now what's the answer to the damn trivia question?
-
Um, maybe that they're names for different types of lepidoptera?
And the name for butterflies in several central African languages translates as "feathers of the wind".
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Well OK, guys! Are you going to tell us the answer or not?
BTW, beautiful butterfly, John.
I dated a lepidopterist once but we broke up. He couldn't be apart from his MOTHer.
Mark
P.S. Did you know that the original name for butterflies was flutterbys? It's true!!! Now what's the answer to the damn trivia question?
I don't know.
Jack says he knows, maybe he'll tell us.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. - Muhammad Ali
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LOT #462
Heath Ledger ‘Joker’ blood-spattered playing card from The Dark Knight
(Warner Bros., 2008) This Joker playing card features a jester standing atop a tiger with a large blotch of studio blood present at the lower right. In Heath Ledger’s amazing performance as Batman’s arch villain, the Joker, he would leave his macabre calling cards at the scene of the carnage he created. This particular prop card, measuring 2 ½ in. x 3 ½ in., was left in the streets of Chicago following a shoot that wrapped in the early morning hours. A wonderful relic from Ledger’s final performance.
$300 - $500
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdavecullen.com%2Fbrokeback%2Fdaily%2FTDS_2008%2FDec%2Ffilm_TheDarkKnight_jokercard1.jpg&hash=072bddef368c343e0c114744a481dabf2b4bd114)
Sold for $ 3500.00
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LOT #509
Heath Ledger’s armor from A Knight’s Tale
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdavecullen.com%2Fbrokeback%2Fdaily%2FTDS_2008%2FDec%2Ffilm_AKnightsTale_armor.jpg&hash=f44a6852df85d7667d41ab94c7d7affedb0e8141)
(Columbia, 2001) The armor worn by the late Heath Ledger as Sir William Thatcher / Sir Ulrich Von Lichtenstein of Gelderland in the 2001 action movie A Knight’s Tale. This is the radical lightweight armor that the character receives from Kate the Farrier (Laura Fraser) late on in the movie. On screen a ‘Nike’ swoosh can be seen but this appears to have been a close up insert shot only, the markings are not present on the full suit when seen during the jousting tournaments. It is fabricated from a very tough, polyurethane which has been detailed to look like metal. This method of armor manufacture is now commonplace in production as it is both durable and lightweight. The material is also ideal for stunt performers as it is soft enough to absorb most impacts. The visor on the helmet is hinged and there is a reasonable amount of movement in the entire outfit for the actor. The most memorable costume from this popular feature film.
$6000 - $8000
Sold for $ 5,000.00
LOT #511
Heath Ledger original screen-worn elk skin jacket from The Lords of Dogtown
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdavecullen.com%2Fbrokeback%2Fdaily%2FTDS_2008%2FDec%2Ffilm_TheLordsOfDogtown_jacket.jpg&hash=5102b82fd7959ebf2a1c28fbf98b28ed973f5a8c)
(Columbia, 2005). Original vintage 1974 custom made elk skin jacket by Robert Warner for Skip Engblom. Lent by the ‘real’ Skip Engblom to Heath who played his on-screen character. Highly detailed blue elk skin with real silver dollars as buttons and Indian head nickels on the sleeves. Detailed with rhinestones on the lapel and sleeves with a lone star on the right shoulder. Accompanied by a letter of authenticity signed by Skip Engblom.
$2000 - $3000
Sold for $ 8,000.00
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unless i misremember a detail, the muskereers were atho, porthos and aramis, .
d'artagnon was to join them as the stories begin.
-
thanks to Chuckie for retelling the BBQ video with his Mom story,
much has passed under my significant bridges since the BBQ, but it is good to remember that hot, hazy weekend.
-
the only time we have been in the same place at the same time, nicky :'(
one of us has got to find a way to get to the other of us, before time runs out.
just a long evening over a bottle of wine for you, and a giant pot of coffee for me.
and perhaps a scrabble board >:D
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coffee and scrabble is absolutely fine with me.
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Yes, the three musketeers were Athos, Porthos and Aramis. The first Brokie friendships I struck up were with a gay man and a lesbian woman in Philadelphia. They didn't know each other at the time but they knew me. We eventually got together last year. I dubbed us the Three Musketeers early on but decided I wanted to be Aramis because the name was the prettiest.
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This sidelining of gay rights into some other sort of category ("Huckabee Says Gay Rights Not Same As Civil Rights") is such a copout. I have a friend whose husband is confined to a wheelchair and only watched films on DVD. I asked her if she was going to get out BBM for him to watch. No, she said, he likes films about social issues. (She meant subjects like indigenous rights, refugees, working class struggle, that sort of thing.) When I pointed out that BBM could be described as a film about social issues she gave me a funny look and very reluctantly agreed that I may have a point. It strikes me that if we don't give consideration to the lives of everyone, we end up as a pretty screwed-up society. Oh wait! We already are!
-
This week’s Question: What are the names of the Three Musketeers?
Was this question inspired by SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE?
-
thanks to Chuckie for retelling the BBQ video with his Mom story,
much has passed under my significant bridges since the BBQ, but it is good to remember that hot, hazy weekend.
Nick, much has passed for me too, but that first weekend was the beginning of a lot of changes for me, more for me in the past 3 years than ever before, if I'm remembering correctly.
And for that, I'm very grateful!
-
This week’s Question: What are the names of the Three Musketeers?
Was this question inspired by SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE?
Umm, no, because I don't know what that is, but maybe THAT could be next weeks question :D
-
Slumdog Millionaire is a movie that is getting award attention this
year. (I have to add--"for some reason".)
Spoiler Alert:
In the beginning of the film the young slumdog boys pretend they are the
three musketeers. Later, part of the plot is that the lead is on the game
show "Who Wants to Be A Millionaire" and your trivia question is involved
in this.
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TwistandShout's Sleep in Heavenly Peace is so beautiful and so touching...great job, tas!
I've been meaning to write that for ages.
Mark
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St. Stephen's day is Dec. 26 on the Roman Catholic calendar, the first martyr. Known as 'Boxing Day' in the UK. Hope I'm right! :D
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi458.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fqq310%2FRONQUILLO18%2Fboxing-topper.jpg&hash=5554e5b50cec8a743825780fafb902020baa57cb)
;) :D
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hmmm, yes, and i didn't notice in the daily sheet the name of the first responder to the 3 musketeers question. i wonder eho THAT might have been? ::)
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^^^^^^^^^
Maybe that's what happens in British families after being forced to spend a whole Christmas day togeter..... ;) :D
In Sweden the name of 26 of Dec is "Second day Christmas" and it's a public holiday.
ETA: oh, you beat me to it Jack! :D I am, of course, referring to Fritz's post! :D
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Come to think of it, I very much doubt the "Swedish origin" of that recipe.......
Peanut butter is very rarely used or known of here......
If someone invents a milkshake like that, it's probably someone with an american connection....
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Boxing Day is a public holiday in the United Kingdom, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, as well as many other members of the Commonwealth of Nations and Greece. It is based on the tradition of giving gifts to the less fortunate members of society. Contemporary Boxing Day in Australia and Canada is a "shopping holiday" associated with after-Christmas sales.
Here we usually just try to recover from the excesses in eating of the day before. And everyone stops to watch the start of the Sydney-Hobart Yacht race either from a vantage point in the harbour or on TV.
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Come to think of it, I very much doubt the "Swedish origin" of that recipe.......
Peanut butter is very rarely used or known of here......
If someone invents a milkshake like that, it's probably someone with an american connection....
Peanut butter is very popular in Minnesota. ;D
I'll bet that's where the recipe originated.
Can't get much more Swedish than that in the U.S.
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Just like German Chocolate Cake is unknown in Germany.
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Just like German Chocolate Cake is unknown in Germany.
What about the German Christmas pickle ornament? Where did that come from?
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Just like German Chocolate Cake is unknown in Germany.
The term "German chocolate cake" was actually derived from German's Sweet Chocolate, a brand name that isn't German either. According to spokespeople from Kraft Foods/General Foods, a man named Sam German, working for the Baker's Chocolate Company, developed a bar of sweet baking chocolate in 1852. The new product bore the name of its inventor: Baker's German's Sweet Chocolate. But the first known published recipe for a cake using German's Sweet Chocolate appeared in a Dallas newspaper in 1957. As time went by, the name of the popular cake recipe—using Baker's German's Sweet Chocolate or Baker's Sweet Chocolate—was shortened to "German chocolate cake."
http://german.about.com/library/blgermyth01.htm (http://german.about.com/library/blgermyth01.htm)
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Probably Wisconsin.
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Just like German Chocolate Cake is unknown in Germany.
When it comes to chocolate cake, I don't care where it's from, as long as it's good.... ::)
"Don't question the origin of a chocolate cake, just eat it"
(newly invented (by me), traditional swedish proverb)
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Probably Wisconsin.
Cheese soup garnished with popcorn.
http://www.cheesesoup.com/recipeDetail.do?id=65 (http://www.cheesesoup.com/recipeDetail.do?id=65)
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What about the German Christmas pickle ornament? Where did that come from?
I think Krampus delivers that one....
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Cheese soup garnished with popcorn.
http://www.cheesesoup.com/recipeDetail.do?id=65 (http://www.cheesesoup.com/recipeDetail.do?id=65)
:o :o :o
Yikes......
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Sonja, some of the regional delicacies in this country are quite exotic.
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Sonja, some of the regional delicacies in this country are quite exotic.
You don't say...... ::) ::)
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One of the regional delicacies I really miss since moving to California is this:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2F099.jpg&hash=12f4c5de3f641f49d41818ab2360ca8f805506a7)
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I miss crawfish, po'boys and muffuletta sandwiches from New Orleans.
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Huh??
What's bologna?
po'boys and muffuletta sandwiches
And what's that?
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Description: A smooth, finely chopped blend of beef and mild spices for that great Koegel taste.
Ingredients: Beef, Water, Salt, Corn Syrup, Spices, Paprika, Sodium Erythorbate, Sodium Erythorbate, Spice Extractives, Garlic Powder, Sodium Nitrite.
http://www.koegelmeats.com/products.cgi?Item=bologna (http://www.koegelmeats.com/products.cgi?Item=bologna)
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In Sweden we have marinated stuff.....herring......salmon..... it's delicious.
And fermented herring, which is a horror..... >:(
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Lutefisk :o
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Description: A smooth, finely chopped blend of beef and mild spices for that great Koegel taste.
Ingredients: Beef, Water, Salt, Corn Syrup, Spices, Paprika, Sodium Erythorbate, Sodium Erythorbate, Spice Extractives, Garlic Powder, Sodium Nitrite.
http://www.koegelmeats.com/products.cgi?Item=bologna (http://www.koegelmeats.com/products.cgi?Item=bologna)
I see....so bologna is not a specific ingredience... if anything it's the name of the mixture of meat and spices?
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yes, it's also called 'Baloney'
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Quote from Garrison Keillor's book Lake Wobegon Days:
"Every Advent we entered the purgatory of lutefisk, a repulsive gelatinous fishlike dish that tasted of soap and gave off an odor that would gag a goat. We did this in honor of Norwegian ancestors, much as if survivors of a famine might celebrate their deliverance by feasting on elm bark. I always felt the cold creeps as Advent approached, knowing that this dread delicacy would be put before me and I’d be told, "Just have a little." Eating a little was like vomiting a little, just as bad as a lot."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutefisk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutefisk)
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No, not lutfisk, that's something different again.... (just looked it up: dried stockfish....)
It's surströmming.....yikes...
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My favorite Swedish delicacy is still 'Hot Dish' ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dish)
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Quote from Garrison Keillor's book Lake Wobegon Days:
"Every Advent we entered the purgatory of lutefisk, a repulsive gelatinous fishlike dish that tasted of soap and gave off an odor that would gag a goat. We did this in honor of Norwegian ancestors, much as if survivors of a famine might celebrate their deliverance by feasting on elm bark. I always felt the cold creeps as Advent approached, knowing that this dread delicacy would be put before me and I’d be told, "Just have a little." Eating a little was like vomiting a little, just as bad as a lot."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutefisk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutefisk)
:D :D :D :D :D
I never tasted it, so I don't know if the above is true or not......
Surströmming, on the other hand, I've had once......and that was more than enough....... ::)
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Hot dish?
Never heard of that one....
ETA: oh, I see you added a link.......hm.....Swedish????
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A po'boy is a large sandwich made on a loaf of French bread (baguette, but we never used that word), using various meats or seafood (particluarly fried oysters), and smothered with dressing, tomatoes, lettuce,pickels and other sandwich vegetables.
A muffuletta is an Italian (probably Sicilian) type of sandwich on a round load of bread, with many layers of meat and cheese thinly sliced, and several sandwich vegetables too, particularly what's called olive salad, finely chopped olives and other things (never exactly knew what went into it), and lots of olive oil to drench the bread with.
Both are delicious!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Po%27boy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muffuletta
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm1.static.flickr.com%2F74%2F217881472_75138104f4_m.jpg&hash=b029bb84b8725230607866853a52de66f6bb3725)
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Mmmm.....those sandwiches do sound delicous Fritz! :P :P
That's more than I can say about the surströmming..... >:( >:(
Isn't thera a rule somewhere that forbids posting a pic like that??? >:(
*seriously considers reporting repulsive pic to mods*
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I've heard of surströmming of course, but I'm afraid I've never had the, er, pleasure. ::)
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If I were you Fritz, I would leave it at that.....
Unless of course, you're some kind of perverted food masochist...... ::)
In which case I would seriously advise you to seek help.....
I'm sure there must be some kind of support group for people who can't stay away from surströmming....who feel the sick pull to the little nasty things all the time..... SA??
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Just like German Chocolate Cake is unknown in Germany.
What about the German Christmas pickle ornament? Where did that come from?
I have one of those! According to the information that came with mine, this pickle ornament is supposed to be hung on your Christmas Tree
and the child who spots it first on Christmas morning gets an extra
Christmas present.
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In 1998, as director Gus Van Sant launched his ill-fated attempt to make Brokeback Mountain, Annie Proulx took him on a tour of potential Wyoming filming locations. She was eager to show Van Sant the house that inspired her memorable Twist Ranch, the “old Childress place” near East Ulm, Wyoming.
Which may be, perhaps, why she had
Jack move to Childress, Texas in her story?
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TDS readers might want to know that the "Star for Heath" project
is a 4 year project because after a star is gone, there is a five year
waiting period before consideration for the walk of fame. There's
also a monetary amount that has to be raised, isn't there? In the
'80's it was $3000, but I think it's up to $10,000 now...
Four years! Damn!
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TDS readers might want to know that the "Star for Heath" project
is a 4 year project because after a star is gone, there is a five year
waiting period before consideration for the walk of fame. There's
also a monetary amount that has to be raised, isn't there? In the
'80's it was $3000, but I think it's up to $10,000 now...
Four years! Damn!
I think it's $ 25,000.00 :o
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That was my mistake - I'm sorry! I really like to acknowledge those who can ask the questions ~ it always impresses me that you all know so much, especially that one, and it's fun.
I've updated TDS to reflect those who were in the know.
Thanks Jack,
Dawn
hmmm, yes, and i didn't notice in the daily sheet the name of the first responder to the 3 musketeers question. i wonder eho THAT might have been? ::)
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In the Uk St Stephen's Day is Boxing Day, 26th Dec, I think, don't know what you call it in the US?
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Boxing Day is a public holiday in the United Kingdom, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, as well as many other members of the Commonwealth of Nations and Greece. It is based on the tradition of giving gifts to the less fortunate members of society. Contemporary Boxing Day in Australia and Canada is a "shopping holiday" associated with after-Christmas sales.
Here we usually just try to recover from the excesses in eating of the day before. And everyone stops to watch the start of the Sydney-Hobart Yacht race either from a vantage point in the harbour or on TV.
And not forgetting the start of the Boxing Day cricket test, Brian. This year it's between Australia and South Africa. We have the big extended family get-together on Boxing Day, down at my in-laws' house.
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There are quite a few traditions associated with Boxing, or St Stephens Day.
This is one of them:
http://www.old-glory.co.uk/index_files/cuttywren.htm
There is a strong tradition of "Hunting the Wren" and "Wren Boys" in the West of Ireland, and also in the Isle of Man.
The tune for the folk song "Hunting the Wren" is known as "Green Bushes" and was used in classical musical pieces by both Ralph Vaughan Williams and Percy Grainger.
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In the Uk St Stephen's Day is Boxing Day, 26th Dec, I think, don't know what you call it in the US?
We call it "December 26", or "The Day After Christmas"
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And not forgetting the start of the Boxing Day cricket test, Brian. This year it's between Australia and South Africa. We have the big extended family get-together on Boxing Day, down at my in-laws' house.
I know, I know, I was born an Aussie but still think cricket must be the most boring game invented by man. You can play for 5 days and still end in a draw.
I was once asked to teach a lesson to teenagers in a high school in Michigan who were just beginning to learn about Australia. After explaining that if I saw a crocodile I would run a mile, they then asked me to explain the rules of cricket. Impossible.
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The Rules of Cricket
as Explained to a foreign visitor
You have two sides, one out in the field and one in.
Each man that's in the side that's in, goes out, and when he's out, he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out.
When they are all out the side that's out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in out.
Sometimes you get men still in and not out.
When both sides have been in and out including the not-outs, that's the end of the game.
Howzat?
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Now try and explain that to a group of 14 year old American boys ;D
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In the Uk St Stephen's Day is Boxing Day, 26th Dec, I think, don't know what you call it in the US?
We call it "December 26", or "The Day After Christmas"
lol!
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The tune for the folk song "Hunting the Wren" is known as "Green Bushes".
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photoshoppix.com%2Fmodules%2Fcoppermine%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10008%2Fnormal_green_bush.jpg&hash=117462ea68942dfe079bf3072151ba34cf8c6aab)
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A po'boy is a large sandwich made on a loaf of French bread (baguette, but we never used that word), using various meats or seafood (particluarly fried oysters), and smothered with dressing, tomatoes, lettuce,pickels and other sandwich vegetables.
A muffuletta is an Italian (probably Sicilian) type of sandwich on a round load of bread, with many layers of meat and cheese thinly sliced, and several sandwich vegetables too, particularly what's called olive salad, finely chopped olives and other things (never exactly knew what went into it), and lots of olive oil to drench the bread with.
Hi Fritz,
You're really taking me back to my roots in NOLA. I still have CDM coffee with chickory shipped to me here in PA.
When I was growing up in NO, that olive salad was called 'wop salad' even on the menus in Italian restaurants. Don't think it would fly today! ;)
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Yes, I remember it being called wop salad. Quite politically incorrect nowadays! :D
And Condoleeza looks rather unhappy in her chapeau.
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The tune for the folk song "Hunting the Wren" is known as "Green Bushes".
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photoshoppix.com%2Fmodules%2Fcoppermine%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10008%2Fnormal_green_bush.jpg&hash=117462ea68942dfe079bf3072151ba34cf8c6aab)
Oh! Well done, Lyle! :D
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In the Uk St Stephen's Day is Boxing Day, 26th Dec, I think, don't know what you call it in the US?
We call it "December 26", or "The Day After Christmas"
Or if you're me--a hardcore Episcopalian--it's "The 2nd day of Christmas." I'm militant about leaving decorations and our (fake) tree up through Epiphany on January 6th. I don't trust people who yank everything down before New Year's, unless their tree's been up since November and is now a fire hazard.
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Regarding http://astarforheath.org
The Heath Ledger book by John McShane
ISBN 9781844546336
could be used for contact information, some
of the people mentioned therein might be able
to provide some of what the Hollywood Chamber
of Commerce requires for a Walk of Fame Star.
Perhaps some of the Heath Ledger fan sites might
want to help with this project also.
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Regarding http://astarforheath.org
The Heath Ledger book by John McShane
ISBN 9781844546336
could be used for contact information,
Thank you!
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i look forward with pleasure to the vernal equinox.
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At Rosh Hashana (the Jewish New Year, celebrated in august-september)
you eat apples and honey to symbolize a sweet new year.
And in some families, mainly with Eastern Europe traditions, you also eat "tzimmes", carrots cooked with prunes, for the same reason.
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At Rosh Hashana (the Jewish New Year, celebrated in august-september)
you eat apples and honey to symbolize a sweet new year.
And in some families, mainly with Eastern Europe traditions, you also eat "tzimmes", carrots cooked with prunes, for the same reason.
THANK YOU...
i looked it up and found vague references to apples and honey, but i was pretty sure from my years living among jews in miami beach that i remembered tzimmes as being served.
i am an eclectic and catholic chowhound. i like ethnic foods from ALL cultures (but not gefilte fish).
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muffuletta
I think I know her!
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(but not gefilte fish).
;D ;D ;D
I LOVE gefillte fish!!
Especially the home made variety, although I never made it myself, it's a helluva lot of work!
And btw, your sig line is from Talmud, isn't it?
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From the book of Ecclesiastes (Sirach). Made especially popular in the 60's when it was used in a song by the Byrds (Turn, turn, turn).
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I've said it before, but it bears repeating: you're an endless source of information Fritz!!! :-*
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Tack så mycket, Sonja!
I'm up so early only because my niece and b-i-l just left here to drive down to New Orleans.
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That piece about "what would your baby look like" in Saturday's Daily Sheet was really cool. I enjoyed playing around with that. It worked really well. :D
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My partner and I did one of those machines in Vegas that takes your picture, then someone else's, then purees them together to create "your" kid. He looked like a drowned-rat version of Joseph-Gordon Leavitt. :o
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Please note that the Book Discussion for 'The Mayor of Castro Street' begins January 12th, not January 5th. Thank you.
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Roxanne by The Police
This is about a man who falls in love with a prostitute. Sting got the idea for this after walking through the red-light district of Paris. He imagined what it would be like to fall in love with one of the prostitutes. Sting chose the name Roxanne because it has a rich history behind it. Roxanne was the name of Alexander The Great's wife and Cyrano DeBergerac's girlfriend.
The laughing at the beginning is Sting. It was recorded when he tripped in the recording studio and fell over the piano.
Sal ;D
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Van Johnson paid a dear price for his homosexuality. Among many indignities he suffered was a forced marriage. Louis Mayer feared that Johnson would be "found out" and required him to marry friend Eve Wynn, or to leave MGM. Their sham marriage lasted until Johnson's career was ruined and he was virtually broke. Most thought he was "done" in the mid 1960s when Johnson was forced to take cruise ship jobs and grovel for guest spots on "The Love Boat."
But Johnson's tragic story has a surprise ending. Late in the Broadway run of La Cage aux Folles, Johnson stepped into the role of Georges (Armand in Birdcage). He finally had the chance to stand on stage as a gay man and bask in the applause of an appreciative audience.
May God bless Van Johnson; we stand on his shoulders.
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While reading Anne Hathaway's description of what her mother was doing to her brother and his husband "beaming straight love into them" my first thought was "what the heck is straight love, is it different than gay love?" Then I reread the sentence and laughed! Funny choice of words by Anne!
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May God bless Van Johnson; we stand on his shoulders.
That is one Hollywood story I am/was unfamiliar with!
Thanks for your post.
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I got a copy of "Clowning Around" yesterday, hoping to get a glimpse of Heath Ledger in his first screen appearance.
It's almost 3 hours long, and I must have spent 5 hours scanning back and forth through the movie.
I couldn't pick him out anywhere for sure. He's listed as an "Orphan Clown" on IMDB.
Van Johnson plays a circus owner in the film. He does a great job.
It's actually a pretty good movie. I'll have to watch it for real sometime.
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From TDS:
Calling for Patience on DADT
“‘(Repealing Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell) ought to be re-examined and it ought to be on the agenda, but it shouldn’t be very high on the agenda,’ said Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI). ‘There are just too many other more important things to do.’
“A cautious non-approach to this was also supported by Brad Luna, communications director for the Human Rights Campaign, the country’s largest gay-rights group. ‘There is a strategically correct way to go about this,’ said Luna. ‘This policy has been in place for a number of years. It’s not going to be repealed overnight.’”
Patience is a code word for go sit in the back of the bus. It irks me when
people say that. ESPECIALLY when they say it without a plan in effect. There
currently is no plan to deal with this issue, just some vague references that it
should be considered. Tell all those people who keep being discharged from
the military to be patient. Sometimes enough is enough.
And I seem to remember that during his campaign Obama said that a President
should be able to do more than one thing at a time. At a time when the services
need all the members they can get, why isn't it the time to try to keep them all
there?
Don't rate me as less than worthy by saying there are more important things
right now. Gay people are always being told to be patient. If you read
all the comments to the article link, you will see that 99% of them are totally
against this not lmow stance. And you expect me to believe that the issue
would be taken up again in 2011 when Obama will be gearing up to run for
President again? Not likely. Then it will be be patient, you'll have to wait until
after the election.
It is my understanding that, whereas before the DADT policy came into being,
the President could have handled this with the stroke of a pen, now the DADT
policy has to be dealt with somehow before it can be gotten rid of. Some of the
replies to the article say that there is an expiration date on it where it will elapse
or something. Does anyone know the particulars of this? When I argue about it
I want to know what i'm talking about.
There is a Gays in the Military thread where this discussion should probably
continune if anyone wants to (and talk about the possible appointment of a
gay man as Secretary of the Navy, as well):
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=4767.150
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I made some screencaps from Clowning Around. I still can't find Heath.
From everything I've read he plays an "orphan clown" in the film.
I suppose this could be him on the left. This takes place in an orphanage.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning.jpg&hash=7466eab0e444154f711558d201c238154e3418a2)
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But I also read that he's in the last 10 minutes of the film and delivers the closing line, which would make him this character
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning9.jpg&hash=011dae201ec092a7a4c0dd7c2bc756ac1b44f54b)
But this is Simon, the main character. There is no other young clown in the last 10 minutes.
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Anyway, it's still a fun film.
And sorta Brokeback
It includes a harmonica
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning2-1.jpg&hash=997ebd12693b390a6b4cba11400f5c2c40dc387a)
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Postcards
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning8.jpg&hash=e0d86ac40a21fb9942c3fdd99355eff603effaa1)
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A phone call
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning6.jpg&hash=fc8ceac0ec66357be66016d58bafc648f5896d0d)
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And her line here is Who is this?
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning7.jpg&hash=3724c10c423cd3628e3ff683ed2133d69da14138)
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Simon meets up with a cowboy named Jack (I am not making this up)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning4.jpg&hash=7da2547be2595426ee216f9a547ef95893443941)
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And of course Jack gets thrown
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning5.jpg&hash=34b13c8425511dd3e944b8ec5ff96afbb9cd2568)
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And I thought at first that might be Heath in the truck (too young though)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning3.jpg&hash=01b3bd96f847b81cb559faceed421a58d48cf692)
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john, that was great!! the postcard, the harmonica, the phonecalls.., who is this? ;D
thanks for posting the shots,,,, i hope you find heath in all those clown faces...!
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I almost forgot about the turkey dinner ;D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FClowning10.jpg&hash=7b5de2f50a1dcef3eb755920ba7733edee5f126b)
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john, that was great!! the postcard, the harmonica, the phonecalls.., who is this? ;D
I am not making this up ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlN5UUaT7KI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlN5UUaT7KI)
Here's the rodeo scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUYEv9zR9PU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUYEv9zR9PU)
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OMG That phonecall brought me to tears. Was that his mother he talked to? :'(
John, I love this new idea of yours. You've founded a whole new field of Brokeback devotion: Finding Brokeback References In Any Other Film! :D
Apart from what you already found, here are some ideas of what we could look out for in all other films we see: sheep, dogs, elks, rifles, beens, campfires, tents, carkeys, babies, horses, gloves, bastards, binoculars, axes, basques, fireworks, runny noses, swings, grocery stores, crayons, shirts, trucks, motels, whiskey.......oh, I could go on.....there's lots! ;D
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OMG That phonecall brought me to tears. Was that his mother he talked to? :'(
Yes she plays Simon's mother.
Other Heath connections:
The actress who plays Simon's mother is Noni Hazelhurst who also plays Candy's mother in the movie 'Candy'
Rebecca Smart is also in the movie, and she was also in 'Blackrock'
Steve Jodrell plays Simon's father, and he directed a couple of episodes of 'Sweat'
And here's your new topic: http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=32051.0 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=32051.0)
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Frisbies!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I loved them--I always got them for presents when I was a child in the mid 60s. Big ones, "professional" models, and small ones. I remember Wham-O manufactured them and I think took the name from Frisbie's Pies which came in a tin plate that was often used for throwing once the pie was gone, the prototype for the Wham-o plastic models.
Nothing more fun than playing frisbee on the beach! We would always play risbee before school and at recess. One sport I was actually good at.
Gosh, do they still make them anymore?
Mark
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They sure do!
http://www.wham-o.com/default.cfm?page=ViewProducts&Category=2
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Thank you, Fritz! If I get to the beach this summer I'm going to get one or two.
Mark
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The hulu website is only available in the US, apparently. :(
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Just watched The Times of Harvey Milk using the hulu website.
Wow! That was good. I was pretty sure I had seen it before, when it was broadcast years ago on PBS, and three minutes into it I remembered many of the faces of the interviewees. But it was well worth seeing again. Powerful documentary. And Mark Isham's score is haunting.
I was surprised that a film from 1984 needed so much in the way of restoration.
That's a neat source for video, and even though you can't pause, you can go backwards and review parts missed while away from the computer, by using the slider at the bottom of the screen.
I'm still astonished what can be done by computer nowadays. It's still magical to me.
Thanks for the link and info!
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I had wondered what happened to Anita Bryant.
Whatever Happened to Anita Bryant starring Tyne Daly.
Brought to you by Marie Callender's.
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The hulu website is only available in the US, apparently. :(
That's what I found too.... >:( :(
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I was surprised that a film from 1984 needed so much in the way of restoration.
I hope Brokeback Mountain doesn't become one of those films needing restoration. I remember how much one of the prints deteriorated in just a few weeks when I saw it back in Michigan several times at the same theater.
I don't worry about it really since it broke out of the art house circuit. I'm sure the studios will take very good care of it.
But I know from working at the State Theater that there are a lot of lesser known films even from the last 20 years that are in danger.
Nowadays we can save movies in digital format, but it's not the same as the reel deal.
The National Film Preservation Foundation has been working to save films since 1997. One of those films was the 1970 Gay Pride Parade, footage of the first gay pride parade in Los Angeles. Another is 1981's Mea Culpa, Bruce Conner’s early music video commissioned by David Byrne and Brian Eno . I know they're not really blockbusters, but they are well worth preserving.
If anyone is interested, here is their website:
http://www.filmpreservation.org/index.html (http://www.filmpreservation.org/index.html)
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yes hulu can only be viewed by residents of the US at the current time, although they are working on rights permissions for global access,with little success so far.
and if i remember correctly, frisbee was the name of a bakery whose pie plates had their name stamped in the center of the accidentally aerodynamic discs that were first sailed back and forth much as frisbees are today, giving the frisbee's creators their inspiration.
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Don't know about that Frisbee. Do know about this Frisbee, however:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Frisbee
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That's a neat source for video, and even though you can't pause, you can go backwards and review parts missed while away from the computer, by using the slider at the bottom of the screen.
Glad you liked hulu! Thanks to KittyHawk for finding it!
Actually, you can pause videos. Move your mouse to the bottom of the video display area until the controller is displayed. At the far left is a pause button. :)
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http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20250862,00.html
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http://blog.nola.com/mikescott/2009/01/benjamin_button_robbed_of_its.html
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http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20250862,00.html
Thanks for posting this Jer. I agree that this is a possibility - and if it were to happen it would be a real shame. For one thing it would give a push to people to learn about Harvey's life if the movie gets an Oscar nod. It would be very, very sad if the person who was the subject of a documentary that won an Oscar in 1985 was ignored in this years Oscar picks. Some would say it shows we are moving backwards, not forwards.
I'm amazed at people under 30 who hadn't heard of Harvey Milk till this film was made. I so hope that it gets a nomination (at least) as it will be more likely that people will learn about this essential period in LGBT history.
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Yes, Michael, it's a shame people under 30 who have never heard of Milk. If it wins it will not only educate younger gay people--who can certainly use it--but give straights an insight into a singular gay hero.
I don't know about you, but my education was totally straight...if anyone we read about in school was gay, it was omitted or minimized. Harvey Milk would've been such a good example for me growing up. Instead I heard about him years later, and then only from the gay press.
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Well actually I'm old enough to have heard about Harvey while he was still alive - and I visited the 'No on Prop 6' headquarters on Market Street (I still have a T-Shirt and button ;D). But yes, when I was in school there was little talk of gay heroes. And even though I read James Baldwin in High School it was 'The Fire Next Time' and not 'Giovanni's Room'.
An important note about 'Milk' is that it is pretty much historically accurate. There have been quibbles here in San Francisco about people who have been left out of the film (Harry Britt is a noticeable exclusion, for example). But from my viewpoint that has more to do with the need for having the film fit within time constraints as anything.
And you can tell how accurate the film is by the number of 'cameos' that appear in the film, including Carol Ruth Silver (a supervisor at the time of Harvey and one of his strongest allies on the board), Gilbert Baker (the creator of the rainbow flag), Tom Ammiano (a former teacher and supervisor and now a member of the California Assembly who knew Harvey), Danny Nicoletta (who worked in Harvey's camera shop), Cleve Jones (who as well as knowing and working with Harvey created the AIDS quilt) and Allan Baird (a labor activist who was one of the first people that Harvey built coalitions with in the city).
This is, of course, important when you consider some of the historical inaccuracies that are in some well accepted films such as Frost/Nixon - for which see here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elizabeth-drew/ifrostnixoni-a-dishonorab_b_150948.html
And here:
http://www.boston.com/movies/display?display=movie&id=11878
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CONGRATULATIONS TO NORWAY AND ALL NORWEGIANS!!!!!!
you have just taken a huge step towards true equality!!
I wish I could say the same about Sweden......
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Stop Minding Anderson Cooper’s Business
Read more here. Source: The Bilerico Project
http://www.bilerico.com/2009/01/stop_minding_anderson_coopers_business.php
There is so much wrong with this opinion piece, but most
of that was discussed in posters replies to it afterwards.
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Thanks TDS for the notice that Brokeback Mountain will be shown and discussed next week at Washington State University, sponsored by the Gender Identity/Expression and Sexual Orientation Resource Center.
If another winter storm don't move in from the Pacific and if snow drifts don't cover the road, am gonna head on over from Portland. Might stop at Hamley & Co. in Pendleton on the way. Check out the saddle catalogs.
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CONGRATULATIONS TO NORWAY AND ALL NORWEGIANS!!!!!!
you have just taken a huge step towards true equality!!
I wish I could say the same about Sweden......
And Happy St Knut's Day!
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CONGRATULATIONS TO NORWAY AND ALL NORWEGIANS!!!!!!
you have just taken a huge step towards true equality!!
I wish I could say the same about Sweden......
And Happy St Knut's Day!
Won't it be wonderful to step back and watch the sky NOT fall in over Norway! You should be able to see it from here.................................!
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The Advocate interviews the widow of director Stanley Kramer in re Producer's Guild Of America award, Milk:
http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid70709.asp
From the article:
Why did you choose Milk to receive this award this year?
Milk was the obvious choice for me. It was my choice for the award even from just seeing the documentary [The Times of Harvey Milk]. Of course, I saw all the other films this year, but nothing was as worthy as Milk.
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In response to the quote in the Anderson Cooper article:
“The fact that people need to declare themselves gay is a huge part of heterosexist privilege in this world; and therefore we are in fact maintaining that when we demand someone admit their sexuality publicly. If we truly believe that all love is beautiful and that it does not matter who you sleep with, this push to out people, or force them to be open about their private lives has got to stop."
I haven't read something so muddle-headed in a long time. First of all it is not the fact that people need to declare themselves gay that is heterosexist - it is the notion that all people are heterosexual in the first place. And to saying that 'all love is beautiful' as a defense of the closet is cowardly.
We live in a world where gay bashing is on the rise - in the United States, in Scotland, in England and in Northern Ireland (for a start - see the gay bashing thread). People are still being killed for homosexuality in Islamic countries and yet we cannot get the United States to support a move to decriminalize homosexuality in the U.N. And we have had 30 states pass laws against gay marriage - many with provisos to prevent any sort of domestic partnership. Laws are being passed to prevent gay people from adopting children. We certainly could use some solid role models in the public eye to combat this trend. Have we forgotten so soon that it was Jack Cafferty on CNN who said (in dismissing 'Brokeback Mountain') that everyone in Hollywood who was interested in coming out had come out?
One thing that the election of Barack Obama has clearly pointed out is that symbolism matters - and that having people that you can admire in the public eye is important for minorities. No less of an authority than Harvey Milk said on Gay Freedom Day June 25, 1978:
"You must come out. Come out...to your parents...I know it is hard and it will hurt them but think about how they will hurt you in the voting booth! Come out...to your relatives. I know that is hard an will upset them but think of how they will upset you in the voting booth. Come out to your friends...if they indeed are your friends. Come out to your neighbors...to your fellow workers...to the people who work where you eat and shop...once and for all, break down the myths, destroy the lies and the distortions.
For your sake.
For their sake
For the sake of the youngsters who are becoming scared by the votes from Dade to Eugene."
What he said then is true today. Break down the barriers and remember the voting booths in California, Arizona, Arkansas and Florida in 2008 - who when America was delivering a message about who we were to the world slapped its gay and lesbian citizens down and told them that they were not equal. And do not hide behind silly politically correct speech by telling us that it is invoking 'heterosexist privilege' to ask you to stand up and be counted.
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i think i would go with egregiously self serving rather than muddle-headed, but outside of that, i agree.
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Folks, below is a link to an interview with Sean Penn. He discuses homophobia in Hollywood, and certain Academy members who were "not interested" to see BBM "because of the subject matter". (Ernest Borgnine and Tony Curtis both said things along these lines.)
http://www.towleroad.com/2009/01/sean-penn-on-mi.html
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Tom Hanks Says Mormon Supporters of Proposition 8 'Un-American'
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480167,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480167,00.html)
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Tom Hanks Says Mormon Supporters of Proposition 8 'Un-American'
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480167,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480167,00.html)
Thank you to a courageous actor who is willing to stand up for what is right and speak his mind. Gay or straight, closeted or not, this is the sort of thing I truly appreciate and find admirable in people in the public eye. People like him, Brad Pitt, Judith Sheindlin and Samuel L. Jackson are worth more than gold.
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I just got my copy of Entertainment Weekly, and Heath is on the cover. It's the Jan. 23, 2009 issue, and there's a VERY long article, and plenty of pics (including one of the Dozy Embrace).
The sub-heading reads, "A year after his tragic death, and on the eve of an Oscar nomination for The Dark Knight, Heath Ledger's friends and colleagues reveal new details about the talented young actor--and share some unforgettable stories."
http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20252991,00.html
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Damn! Wouldn't you know that this is the one week where my EW comes late? I usually get it on a Friday but not yesterday. But something to look forward to, nonetheless!!
Mark
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Answer to both is LBJ!
He was sworn in aboard Air Force One, as soon as possible after JFK was pronounced dead, with local Judge Sarah Hughes presiding. They couldn't find a Bible on the aircraft, so he was sworn in using a Catholic missal in its stead.
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Tom Hanks Says Mormon Supporters of Proposition 8 'Un-American'
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480167,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480167,00.html)
Thank you to a courageous actor who is willing to stand up for what is right and speak his mind. Gay or straight, closeted or not, this is the sort of thing I truly appreciate and find admirable in people in the public eye. People like him, Brad Pitt, Judith Sheindlin and Samuel L. Jackson are worth more than gold.
The last part of that article has the actress Ginnifer Goodwin starring
alongside Heath in BBM? Huh?
Also some generous remarks about Heath from Hanks.
Goodwin starred alongside the late Heath Ledger in “Brokeback Mountain," and was overwhelmed with emotion regarding his Golden Globes win, saying his performance in “The Dark Knight” was “just perfect.”
“I thought it was spot on, but a sad moment nonetheless,” Hanks added. “Every time I saw Heath Ledger, he was a different human being on screen. He was a brilliant actor at least for the handful of things that we are able to see him in for the rest of time, so God rest him, and good job to those people who choose to hand out trophies.”
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Answer to the signature question in TDS of 20th Jan - that line is in Janjo's signature.
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Janjo is the one with "are birds free?" in her sig line.
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http://www.usmagazine.com/photos/stars-inauguration?slideshow_id=989&o=1
ANNE HATHAWAY
"I was kind of afraid of Obama the first time I saw him. I thought, I've been burned by guys like you before," Hathaway has said. "It was around the time that he gave his speech on race that I just said 'I can't deny how I feel about you, Barack Obama. I want you to be the president. I want you in the White House.'"
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Thanks so much for including part of my article on taking care of your mental health and taking care of one another in today's very special Daily Sheet. I cannot help but think of all of the many, many places that Jackie traveled to in the last two years of her life - and all of the people that she met and touched. I also can't help but remember how busy Heath was in the last year of his life. I have no doubt that both of them would want us to remain actively involved in our lives - to live our own dreams, much as they were. We honor them when we continue to be actively engaged in our own lives and it is important to know that there are resources out there to help do that.
Thanks again.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh86%2FBrokenOkie%2FTDS%2FheathAdNew500.jpg&hash=5af3f7af21c649d7f14c5747d4f205f5bde14022)
Here's a little background on a donation we're making with funds we raised from the sale of the Forum's book.
Our book Beyond Brokeback sold well beyond expectations: roughly 1,300 copies. We grossed about $6,800, some of which we plowed back into the marketing the book, some for running the forum the past 18 months (expanding the server size and memory a few times, to improve response time), and we have put some money aside to keep us running for the next year. That leaves us with about $3,600, which we are going to donate to a worthy charity. We also raised money for a tribute ad to Heath in Variety last year, and about $1,400 more came in than the ad cost. We said we would donate the rest to charity.
We asked members for their input on the book funds, and overwhelming consensus was toward helping struggling gay youth in some way. Several organizations were cited repeatedly, including GLSEN, GLAAD, PFLAG and The Point Foundation's scholarship funds for gay youth. We think any of those would be great beneficiaries--they all do great work for the gay community and gay/straight allies, and are closely aligned with the ideas of Brokeback. Of those, the two which most closely fit the central idea of helping struggling gay youth were GLSEN (http://www.glsen.org/) and The Point Foundation's scholarship fund (http://www.pointfoundation.org/). (Click either for their websites, to learn more.)
So, we will take money available from our book proceeds and split it 50/50 between the two groups, and cite the donations in honor of Heath. We would like to hear from the membership about how to use the $1,400 remaining from the Heath ad. We can increase the GLSEN and Point donations, or do something more specifically related to Heath. Let's hear your thoughts.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=32190.0 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=32190.0)
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Thank you for the Heath and Jackie editons of TDS!
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http://www.towleroad.com/2009/01/milk-film-the-t.html
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^^^ Thanks for posting that - I'm going to go post it over in the 'Milk' thread....
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http://www.towleroad.com/2009/01/milk-film-the-t.html
I remember another gay movie from a few years ago where that happened on IMDB, Yahoo, and other movie sites. And it's still happening.
The movie had something to do with 'gay cowboys'
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The sig line belongs to Stars go blue.
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And as for the new Swedish law, I only have this to say, as I've already said in another thread:
About time!!!
That law we should have had many years ago! >:(
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I like the cover of Dave's new book...
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Wondering how come there hasn't been any Photocaps of the Day
in TDS recently? I miss it because it's always the one thing that brings
Brokeback back to mind at the end of the news sheet. Not all things in
TDS are directly BBM related, like gay news or news about the actors
or recipes or political events, but the Photocaption at the end of the sheet
has always brought the reason for this forum back into focus and always
seemes fitting.
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Thanks for your feedback. It’s great to know how much you enjoy TDS. The Photocaptions section will be on hiatus for a little while. There’s only so much space available. Different features will rotate through the Footnotes, to help bring visibility to various areas of the Forum that otherwise might not get noticed by everyone. :)
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I wondered if this might be of interest to TDS?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/world-gets-its-first-gay-head-of-state-1519068.html
Apologies if it has already been posted elsewhere - I wasn't sure where to put it!
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Answer to both is LBJ!
He was sworn in aboard Air Force One, as soon as possible after JFK was pronounced dead, with local Judge Sarah Hughes presiding. They couldn't find a Bible on the aircraft, so he was sworn in using a Catholic missal in its stead.
I saw an installment of Antiques Road Show (PBS) about six months ago where the who was on Air Force One showed up with the original of that picture. It's one of those artifacts that when you look at it, the whole era comes back in an instant if you're old enough to remember it.
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Just for the sake of accuracy, Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir will be the head of government, not head of state. The President of Iceland is the head of state, and his position is mostly ceremonial, much like other presidents (and monarchs) of states with a strong prime ministerial/parliamentary system.
(mod to correct spelling)
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There must be a lot of considerably easier ways to raise 10,000 pounds..... ::) ::)
Personally, I'm willing to make a substantial contribution in order not to have to do my ironing at the bottom of a quarry.....
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There’s only so much space available.
LOL.
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Re: the film I Love You Phillip Morris
“The kissing, of course, was a major topic in interviews about the movie."
I wish the actors in films like these would not answer these silly questions.
They either come off as cutesy which is annoying or if they try to answer it
seriously it comes off as being something "wrong" that they had to overcome.
And for sites like Celebrity Cafe to have a section about it--why? If the interviewers
are so interested in this topic they should all stand in a line and we'll have some
gay men go down the line and give each one of them a smack on the mouth.
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^^^^^^^
Can I watch?? :P >:D
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On a more serious note:
I guess that is what actors do.....they enact things they wouldn't normally do in their RL. That's what their whole profession is about.....and as far as I know they don't have to answer a lot of questions about what it felt like being in a car chase scene, or a shooting scene, or a riding scene, or a wedding scene if they are unmarried, or a daddy scene and so on....
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"When Alma’s famous reaction shot was made, Michelle Williams insisted that the men reenact the kiss, several times, so she could get her expression right."
Yeah. Sure she did. If you believe that was her REAL reason for insisting they keep kissing…I have a pair of Aguirre's ol' binoculars to sell you.
"Hey guys, just one more time. Oooooh. Alma is SO horny…I mean bummed."
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Oh, Michelle... Me and Jake are ready to do our close up again!
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Oh, Michelle... Me and Jake are ready to do our close up again!
good lord,doggie, I haven't seen you 'round these parts in quite a spell?
Great to hear from you.
Where you been?
(or have I just not been paying proper attention)
g
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good lord,doggie, I haven't seen you 'round these parts in quite a spell?
Great to hear from you.
Where you been?
(or have I just not been paying proper attention)
g
Oh, I'm always sniffing around here... Got a taste for camel but its pretty hard to find!
Must add that Brokeback got me interested in literature about Montana. Close to Alberta's film country to the north and Wyoming's short story country to the south. Crave to move under the Big Sky. And I really do have a grade school pal who lives in a trailer in Ennis, Montana. As a matter of fact, on Ennis Street!
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That sig line belongs to andy.
Speaking of collectibles, I have a piece of Brokeback that I cherish but it will never have monetary value because to anyone else it's just a piece of wood. MarkC visited the filming locations in the fall of 2006 and broke off some small pieces of the dead tree Jack and Ennis sat on by the fire. When he came to France a year later he came to stay with us and gave me two pieces. I keep them locked away because we heat with wood and I don't want to risk having a family member think it's a piece of kindling gone astray.
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“the shirts hanging on a nail shudder slightly in the draft.”
The sig line belongs to Nikki.
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Andy and Nikki must have been separated at birth, then. :D
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;)
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Hey, gang, I can't access my email right now, so I'm putting it here:
It appears that Focus Features liked our first ad idea so much that they borrowed the concept for "Milk:"
http://www.kennethinthe212.com/2009/02/tuesday-ad-watch.html
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That's a nice ad, thank you for bringing it to our attention.
I am just wondering, though, if Focus Features actually placed
the ad. The blogger says they did, but the ad makes it seem like
the organizations did. Plus, as of right now I could not find that info
out anywhere else online. Not that it matters, but I am skeptical of
alot of internet info from blogging sources. Especially after I watched
David Denby on Charlie Rose last night! LOL!
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I like Denby--what did he say?
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Denby was talking about his book and mis-information
(or non-information) spead about on the internet as it
appplies to the term Snark.
20th Annual GLAAD Media Awards Nominees
OUTSTANDING FILM – WIDE RELEASE
Brideshead Revisited (Miramax Films)
Milk (Focus Features)
Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist (Columbia Pictures)
RocknRolla (Warner Bros. Pictures)
Vicky Cristina Barcelona (The Weinstein Company)
I was glad to see 'Nick and Norah' nominated here.
People might wonder why--is it a gay film--huh?--but
Nick and Norah is exactly the type of film that treats gay
people the way we envision it. As a part of normal everyday
life. Nick's two friends that he's travelling the city with in
search of love are a gay couple. And they aren't there JUST
for comic relief or comic effect, although they are amusing
at times. They are there because they are Nick's friends.
And that was one aspect of this endearing film that was
surprising, unfortunately surprising, but surprising. I really
liked this film although the current gross-out mentality scene
or two I would have left out. Still, it was good to see this
recognized by GLAAD.
SIDEBARS:
Michael Cera, the lead in that film who was also in Juno, is
up for a BAFTA tonight for their most promising newcomer
award (although a BRIT will usually win it, of course!) and
Sherwood Shcwartz recently announced that he wants him
to play Gilligan in his Gilligan's Island feature film. (He wants
Beyonce to play Ginger!) I doubt, unless they go for an R rating,
that Gilligan's Island will be up for a GLAAD award!
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Would that be The Great Gazoo (voiced as I recall Harvey Korman)?
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It appears that Focus Features liked our first ad idea so much that they borrowed the concept for "Milk:"
I am just wondering, though, if Focus Features actually placed the ad.
I like to think we set the standard, no matter who actually placed the ad. ;)
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LGBT History Month
“Taking place in February each year, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) History Month celebrates the lives and achievements of the LGBT community.
Although looking I haven't found out yet; does anyone know why the UK
celebrates February as LGBT month? In the U.S. February is Black
History month and June is when most U.S. GLBT celebrations are held because that's when Stonewall occurred. (A friend once told me--I didn't know that, I thought it's because the weather was nice.) ! ! ! ! !
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Black History Month is celebrated here in February because both Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass were born in this month.
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LGBT History Month has been welcomed by the government. However, its origins lie with the grass roots.
The idea came from School’s Out!, a campaigning organisation of LGBT people involved in education. They took their inspiration partly from the US, where LGBT History Month has been celebrated since 1994. They also make respectful acknowledgement to the example of Black History Month.
http://www.lgbthistorymonth.org.uk/aboutus/about.htm (http://www.lgbthistorymonth.org.uk/aboutus/about.htm)
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Sydney's famous gay Mardi Gras began as a Stonewall celebration in June. However, as that is the middle of winter down here, it was moved to February, our most humid month. Much better for those whose costumes are very minimal but not so good for those of us who like to wear leather ;D
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Thank you for the link to the Matthew Shepard murder site and memorial in Finding Brokeback. I love that website, and am glad they're finding more and more things of interest to put on it.
After the Estes Park gathering in 2007 I went to Laramie and asked at a couple of visitor centers and eventually the library (but not the police department) about where the murder took place. I didn't encounter any hostility, but people were for the most part uninformed about the details of the murder, and didn't know exactly where it took place. A librarian was especially helpful and friendly in assisting me, and pointed out a site that he thought to be accurate, but he wasn't sure. I went there and took some vids, but that site has turned out to be incorrect. The false site was near a housing development with new houses being built at the time. It wasn't too far from the actual site, but I'm glad to know where it took place now for the next time I return to the city.
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Gelatin in jell-o is made up of animal products. eewwww.
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“Though his face was caked in blood, his face was clean where streaks of tears had washed the blood away.”
Jeeeeeeeeezus.
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Gelatin in jell-o is made up of animal products. eewwww.
hooves and horns in the old days, but i don't think that's how they make it nowadays
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http://www.vegsoc.org/info/gelling.html
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the Enola Gay was the bomber that carried the first Atomic bomb dropped on Japan in WWII. It was named after the pilot's daughter.
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I thought it was his mother.
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LOL.
Why?
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Photo of the Day
As posted in BBM Fanart
Created by LauraGigs, with photo by Mouk
------------------------------------------------------------------------
LauraGigs, thanks for the reinvention of that
beautiful and heartfelt picture taken by Mouk
last year. Just lovely.
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Answers to this week's Fun Question of the Day (scrambled 9-letter words):
announcer
bedspread
beautiful
dimension
breakfast
houseboat
livestock
operation
pronounce
seventeen
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just a quicky, I love the T-Mobile (rhymes with "file" ;)) commercial - there are actually 3 versions that have been shown here on UK tv.
However, I must just point out that Liverpool Street Station is in London, the heading of the item would make one believe that it was filmed in Liverpool.
Thanks for listening to a pedant.
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LOL Nick!!
I'm very content that for once there was something I actually did know......doesn't happen to often around here.... ::)
But I agree, if you've never been to London it can be confusing.... And I also thought about it when watching the video.
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just a quicky, I love the T-Mobile (rhymes with "file" ;)) commercial - there are actually 3 versions that have been shown here on UK tv.
However, I must just point out that Liverpool Street Station is in London, the heading of the item would make one believe that it was filmed in Liverpool.
Thanks for listening to a pedant.
Well, I was there last night and there wasn't anything like that happening! Nick and I have very good reason to know where Liverpool Street Station is, it is the main London Station for the East of England, and most trains from this area end up there. it is in the centre of the financial district, THE City of London.
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Answers to this week's Fun Question of the Day (scrambled 9-letter words):
announcer
bedspread
beautiful
dimension
breakfast
houseboat
livestock
operation
pronounce
seventeen
I was certain there'd not be an answer to this one, Debbie!
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Answers to this week's Fun Question of the Day (scrambled 9-letter words):
announcer
bedspread
beautiful
dimension
breakfast
houseboat
livestock
operation
pronounce
seventeen
I was certian there'd not be an answer to this one, Debbie!
;D
It's all that training from my mother's puzzle magazines, finally put to good use! :D
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"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask and he will tell you the truth" is the sig line of the delightful KayDee, dedicated resident of Planet Heath.
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fan letter --
Great TDS, I liked the square root story -- :D
Also there are a couple of landmarks -- the first story is about someone who is touched by Beyond Brokeback, and he is in Spain :o
The second story is about Dave's book which has been such a long time in the making, and now it's coming out! (I think the cover captures that eerie feeling we all had when this story first broke.)
And I loved the final picture about men being able to show affection. I wish they could do that in our culture in the U.S.
Thanks, MissYouSoMuch!
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I thought it was his mother.
You're right, of course, but I thought they were from West Virginia.
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:D :D :D
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Ellen's fan letter reminded me to say thank you for the Buddhist statement on same-sex marriage the other day and the link. So logical and such a contrast to the irrational statements of religious opponents.
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In answer to today's daily sheet questions:
I think Death Valley is the lowest land point and Lake Superior is the largest lake in the world.
Mark
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^^^^^^^^^^
I thought it was the Dead Sea, but you're probably right. I'm trying to do this without looking it up- :D :D
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The lowest spot on the earth's surface is The Dead Sea at around -400m below sea level. The lowest point on the earth's crust is Challenger Deep in the Marianas Trenchat about 11000m.
The largest lake by surface area and volume is The Caspian Sea. If your definition of lake is only freshwater, then by surface area the largest is Lake Superior, by volume the largest is Lake Baikal in Eastern Russia.
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damn you know it all brits !
i was just heading in for these two (although i did forget the marianas trench as an alternative answer as well as lake superior)
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I made a version of Dick Tauber's Cordial Pie for my book club Tuesday and they loved it. Plus it was easy. They're serious about their chocolate so I used a combination of mostly Creme de Cacao and a little Vandermint.
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"It is no accident that we all lie nestled together in the curves of the universe.
We are tugged by the forces of the celestial tides. Time folds in on itself and outward again in
gladness as we spin around, each of us an utter miracle in a sea of tiny white stars."
~Jamien E. Morehouse~
This sig line belongs to our wonderful Lighthouse Lady Sue - Mainegirl
And it's a great quote IMO!
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damn you know it all brits !
i was just heading in for these two (although i did forget the marianas trench as an alternative answer as well as lake superior)
LOL! If you know it, flaunt it!
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Thanks for the Rupert Everett article.
Never enough Rupert Everett, never enough!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mostbeautifulman.com%2Fnews%2Fwp-content%2Frupert-everett.jpg&hash=af34a0c4ea5dc54168e3c41dae0feb4b7b64de58)
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I read this TDS news item and the linked article:
“After seeing a student wearing a ‘Brokeback Mountaineers’ sweatshirt, Rutgers
University Student Assembly member Ben West was disappointed by the
discrimination and decided to act.
Am I missing something? What exactly was discriminatory about this shirt?
If there was more to it than just the slogan on it, it's not pictured or mentioned
anywhere. There used to be a thread on this site where we called the BBM
followers Brokeback Mountaineers and this article is puzzling to me.
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This Week’s Question: What plant produces the world’s smallest seeds?Let us know the answer on the response thread.
It's gotta be some sort of an orchid... probably an epiphytic species.
What do I win?
;D
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Thanks Lyle for putting my thoughts into words.
I don't get it either, but I thought it was due to
a lack in my knowledge of English.
I'm glad it wasn't, but I'd still like to know why exactly that shirt was discriminatory.
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I'm with Lyle and Sason--what was the problem with the "Brokeback Mountaineers" shirt?
Also, garyd's thoughtful Post of the Day--which definitely refers to their last camping trip and the argument at the trailhead--is illustrated by a screen-cap from the post-divorce scene--where Jack drives 14 hours for 30 seconds of Ennis' time. (Specifically, the shot of Ennis right after Jack drives away again.)
-
A different picture to go with the Post of the Day might have been a better choice. Since the quote came from the "Other Scenes" thread and not the "last scene together" thread, and spoke to lost opportunities, I picked a picture where Ennis seemed to be contemplating things, after a lost opportunity, but a picture from the last scene - the ultimate lost opportunity - would likely have been a better choice - good to know for next time.
Thanks For Reading!
Dawn
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I'm with Lyle and Sason--what was the problem with the "Brokeback Mountaineers" shirt?
I don't get it either. This one left me really scratching my head. Was the school mascot name the Mountaineers? Even so..........why...........?
Was there some sort of taunting involved in the wearing of those shirts? It's very unclear.
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I'm with Lyle and Sason--what was the problem with the "Brokeback Mountaineers" shirt?
I don't get it either. This one left me really scratching my head. Was the school mascot name the Mountaineers? Even so..........why...........?
Was there some sort of taunting involved in the wearing of those shirts? It's very unclear.
I too, was a a bit mystified.
I found this.
I think it will help.
Read the entire "resolution".
http://rusa.rutgers.edu/meetings/ambr/2009S/brs/09S05.pdf (http://rusa.rutgers.edu/meetings/ambr/2009S/brs/09S05.pdf)
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Thanks for finding that, garyd, now it makes some sense.
-
I'm still not sure I understood it.... ???
The English used in that resolution was a bit too complicated for my understanding.....
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I'm still not sure I understood it.... ???
The English used in that resolution was a bit too complicated for my understanding.....
One of Rutgers Univ. athletic rivals is West Virginia.
The West Virginia athletic teams are the 'Mountaineers"
A website was selling t-shirts to the Rutgers students that had "Brokeback Mountaineers" printed on the front (or back or both)
The Rutgers students thought it was in poor taste at the very least.
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Might not be so derogatory for us Ennis and Jack types climbing out of our own ravines, eh?
If we wear em, I mean...
Like... where can I get one?
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“Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes possibles.”
That would be our resident Pangloss....Dal.
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I'm still not sure I understood it.... ???
The English used in that resolution was a bit too complicated for my understanding.....
One of Rutgers Univ. athletic rivals is West Virginia.
The West Virginia athletic teams are the 'Mountaineers"
A website was selling t-shirts to the Rutgers students that had "Brokeback Mountaineers" printed on the front (or back or both)
The Rutgers students thought it was in poor taste at the very least.
Aha.....and the t-shirts implied that the other team was gay, and thus insulting them?
Now it makes sense. Thanks for explaining!
But.....on second thought......what was the bad taste here.....to insult the other team by implying they are gay?....or the very notion that such an implyment(?) even was an insult....?
Anyhow, it may be very bad taste in that context, but the t-shirt itself.....well, I wouldn't mind one myself..... ;)
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Aha.....and the t-shirts implied that the other team was gay, and thus insulting them?
Now it makes sense. Thanks for explaining!
But.....on second thought......what was the bad taste here.....to insult the other team by implying they are gay?....or the very notion that such an implyment(?) even was an insult....?
Anyhow, it may be very bad taste in that context, but the t-shirt itself.....well, I wouldn't mind one myself..... ;)
Yes, it was definitely meant as a "slur" and the kids at Rutgers did the right thing.
On the other hand, it would be cool to have a shirt.
What would be really cool is if the all the students at WVA bought the shirts are proudly wore them to all of their games.
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The holey dollar and dump, made from Spanish silver dollars worth 5 shillings each were issued by New South Wales Governor Macquarie in 1813 to over come a shortage of currency. The holey dollar was worth 5 shillings and the dump 1 shilling and 3 pence. Another advantage of punching the dump out of the dollar was that the coins couldn't leave the colony, having no value anywhere else.
Incicentally the first generations of non-Indigenous people born in Ne south Wales were called Currrency Lads and Lasses.
At one time in the early years s in NSW, because of the shortage of legal tender, people in the colony used rum as currency.
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I loved the collection of fanart in TDS today.
Thank you for posting it!
-
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said!!
-
I wondered if this would be of interest to the Daily Sheet: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-244X/9/11/abstract - I'm never sure where to post this sort of stuff! It's about a study (postal questionnaire) of "The response of mental health professionals to clients seeking help to change or redirect same-sex sexual orientation", which concluded that "A significant minority of mental health professionals are attempting to help lesbian, gay and bisexual clients to become heterosexual. Given lack of evidence for the efficacy of such treatments, this is likely to be unwise or even harmful". The comments in the pdf are interesting.
Also the 23rd London Lesbian and Gay Film Festival http://www.bfi.org.uk/llgff/ is on at the moment. Looks like an interesting programme.
-
I didn't know where to post it either, so I put the BBC report of it on the "Is Society as Accepting as it Seems" thread earlier.
So I am reposting it here too so that all the information is together.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7963828.stm
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This week’s Question: Who are these people?
Leonard, Minnie, Herbert, Simon, Arthur, Milton, Manfred, Julius
Let us know the answer on the response thread.
They are members of the zany Marx family--Leonard is Chico's real name, Minnie was their mother, Herbert is Zeppo's real name, I have no idea who Simon is (did you mean SAM, the father of the brood?), Arthur was Harpo (he was born Adolph, but changed it when Hitler began his rise to infamy), Milton was Gummo, Manfred was the firstborn Marx son, who died when he was less than two years old, and finally, Julius is the one and only wonderful Groucho!!! (P.S. Arthur was also the name of one of Groucho's sons.)
Mark (as opposed to MARX)
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Re: an article by David Fisco titled Objectivism on Brokeback Mountain
[...]
Were these characters even gay?
People wonder why many gay people have problems concerning
their sexuality or coming out. There's pressure from segments of
society to not be gay. When you come to terms with being gay
some of those same people tell you that you are not gay.
I didn't study this article, but the author seems to express that the
characters are not gay, but are in love with each other. That has
always been something that I feel so-called "straight society" neglects
to consider. They only see gay people or homosexuals in terms of the
sex act. Can you not be gay without the sex? You are not gay until you
have sex? But even in this author's article, his view of the sex is that it
adheres to some heterosexual idea of their being? (?)
Ever since I learned about Kinsey's scale of sexuality, which makes
TOTAL sense to me, the labeling issue has been a moot point to me.
I think it's possible for people to be anywhere on that scale, which
would explain their behaviors. One side of the scale is gay and the
other straight, but you could be anywhere in between as well.
If you want an examination of this idea, watch Russell T. Davies rather
brilliant 6 hour BBC miniseries Bob & Rose. He is the writer of the
original British Queer as Folk series and some of the recent Doctor Who
series. Bob & Rose is about an out gay man, typical in most every sense
one would think of that, who falls in love with a woman. Obviously, that
causes no end of discussion. Some gay friends who see it just refuse to
believe that would be possible. You could think of him as a reverse Ennis.
One woman gay man.
Anyway, the most interesting thing I learned in that article was that
Charlie's Angels was Ayn Rand's favorite TV show. (!)
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This week’s Question: Who are these people?
Leonard, Minnie, Herbert, Simon, Arthur, Milton, Manfred, Julius
Let us know the answer on the response thread.
They are members of the zany Marx family--Leonard is Chico's real name, Minnie was their mother, Herbert is Zeppo's real name, I have no idea who Simon is (did you mean SAM, the father of the brood?), Arthur was Harpo (he was born Adolph, but changed it when Hitler began his rise to infamy), Milton was Gummo, Manfred was the firstborn Marx son, who died when he was less than two years old, and finally, Julius is the one and only wonderful Groucho!!! (P.S. Arthur was also the name of one of Groucho's sons.)
Mark (as opposed to MARX)
Mark, Simon was the dad's real name, but he went by Sam. Sometimes Frenchie, too, as he was from the Alsace/Lorraine area.
-
Thanks for that info, Ms. Dumont. I think I remember also reading this in GROUCHO, an excellent bio by Stefan Kanfer.
Simon, Sam, Frenchie...I ZEPPOse it doesn't matter. I still got the question right!
"Chowgro"
-
Yes you did, Mark and congratulations on this!!! :-* :D
-
Oh Linda, can't you see that I love you? I can see us married and you bending over a hot stove--only I can't see the stove. I suppose you'll think me a sentimental old fluff but could I have a lock of your hair? I'm letting you off easy--I was going to ask for the whole wig! Say, you'd better beat it--I hear they're going to tear you down and build an office building where you're standing! In the meantime I'm fighting for your honor, which is more than you ever did!
Hugs and kisses from your
Groucho Mark
-
Thanks for that info, Ms. Dumont. I think I remember also reading this in GROUCHO, an excellent bio by Stefan Kanfer.
Simon, Sam, Frenchie...I ZEPPOse it doesn't matter. I still got the question right!
"Chowgro"
For once I knew the answer.... But you were too fast for me.... ;)
Congratulations!!!!!
I read about this in 'Harpo speaks'... I recommend that if you haven't read it.
:-*
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Dang, Mark, you beat me to it! You clever boy. ;D Something about "Minnie" triggered the memory of a play or somesuch called "Minnie's Boys" about the Marx Brothers.
Also, a shout-out to Dave C. for his mention in the current NEWSWEEK issue about Columbine, which specifically references (and compliments) his book. CONGRATULATIONS!!
-
LOL at TDS today - thanks for the laughs
Sal ;D
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Indeed. Of all the "Brokeback" parodies I've seen, I'd never seen "Brokeback Mime" before. Brilliant stuff.
-
So true, Dean! Hilarious and oddly poignant all at once. Loved it.
Mark
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Great Daily Sheet! Well done, team!
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OMG --
Just in case anybody thought "click to watch" was a prank --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZjmTFfPTKE
just do it! Watch Brokeback Mime-tain.
******
Thanks to Man from town with huge puddle for finding that (at least, I bet he's the one who found it), but it's been up on you tube since Dec 2007!
Great TDS, thanks
-
They also posted BB-mime bloopers ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmVx95f0iZw&feature=related
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Oh Linda, can't you see that I love you? I can see us married and you bending over a hot stove--only I can't see the stove. I suppose you'll think me a sentimental old fluff but could I have a lock of your hair? I'm letting you off easy--I was going to ask for the whole wig! Say, you'd better beat it--I hear they're going to tear you down and build an office building where you're standing! In the meantime I'm fighting for your honor, which is more than you ever did!
Hugs and kisses from your
Groucho Mark
LMAO!!!
;D ;D ;D
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I agree with everybody, great stuff in TDS this week! :D ;)
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Loved the April Fool's issue...
;)
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It was a real treat. :)
-
I don't come here too often, but do read TDS every Tuesday & Saturday. One of the highlights of my week really.
Can't thank you enough for everyone who takes the time and effort to put each issue together.
A beautiful write up on Rance, and brought tears, yet closure to me that he was properly honored here. In this
new electronic age in which we live, he was one of my best friends the past three years....yet we never met in person.
-
I too thank you for the wonderful write-up for Rance - it was such a nice tribute to a great men.
And MissYouSoMuch, we're going to......miss you so much ;D. Thank you for all your time and dedication in turning out such a top-notch Daily Sheet!
Dawn
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(((Kisses to Misses)))
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Hi folks,
Just wanted to let you know that the Palm Springs Rodeo runs for May 1-3. http://palmspringsrodeo.org/ (http://palmspringsrodeo.org/)
Unless I get hurt on practice bulls next weekend, I'll be a Bullriding Contestant. Hope to see some of you there.
Jim
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Go Jim go!!
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Good morning, all!
I believe that that best-selling car was the Ford Mustang.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2205%2F2233050940_a041f953ee.jpg&hash=1c79634feca1ab07446f27e42d47a4e60c5bc4c5)
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^^^ i won't argue with that! is that lureen's ride? ;) :D
jim -- have fun at bull riding practice -- hang on tight!
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Amnesty International writes to Iraqi PM re murders
of gays
Iraqi leaders attacked over spate of homophobic murders
Dozens of young men and boys killed by death squads in Baghdad
By Nigel Morris, Deputy Political Editor
Monday, 13 April 2009
Gay groups claim the Iraqi government is giving tacit support to the death squads targeting young homosexuals who venture outdoors.
In an unusual move, Amnesty International will today write to the Iraqi President, Nouri al-Maliki, demanding "urgent and concerted action" by his government to stop the killings. Amnesty said the murders appear to have been carried out by militiamen and relatives of the victims, after being incited by religious leaders. Homosexuality has always been taboo in the country, but a surge of killings followed religious leaders' sermons condemning "deviancy".
...
No arrests have been made.Ali Hili, the London spokesman for Iraqi LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender) said it had received reports of at least 63 killings in the last four months. He told The Independent: "Since mid-December we've been getting lots of reports about mass arrests and raids on houses, cafes, barbers shops." He claimed police and the Ministry of the Interior were behind some of the murders.
...
Amnesty's letter to Mr Al-Maliki protests over his government's failure to condemn the killings publicly or to investigate the murders adequately. It also points to statements by police which appear to condone, or even encourage, the targeting of gay men, and calls for officers who incite homophobic attacks to be "held to account and either prosecuted or disciplined and removed from office".
Niall Couper, a spokesperson from Amnesty International, said: "The gay community in Iraq deserves protection and that means their leaders needs to stand up for them. Amnesty International is calling on Nouri al-Maliki to condemn all attacks on members of the gay community, publicly, unreservedly and in the strongest terms possible."
...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraqi-leaders-attacked-over-spate-of-homophobic-murders-1668013.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraqi-leaders-attacked-over-spate-of-homophobic-murders-1668013.html)
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It is so cool that Dave will be on Oprah.
Of course the subject is interesting now. Sadly.
But Dave's fact-finding helps us get a grip on it.
-
Hi folks,
Just wanted to let you know that the Palm Springs Rodeo runs for May 1-3. http://palmspringsrodeo.org/ (http://palmspringsrodeo.org/)
Unless I get hurt on practice bulls next weekend, I'll be a Bullriding Contestant. Hope to see some of you there.
Jim
Good luck Jim! Keep us posted!
-
I want to say public THANKS to Marge_Innavera -- and all the TDS team -- for keeping TDS going.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
-
Good morning, all!
I believe that that best-selling car was the Ford Mustang.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2205%2F2233050940_a041f953ee.jpg&hash=1c79634feca1ab07446f27e42d47a4e60c5bc4c5)
Thats my dream car.
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I want to say public THANKS to Marge_Innavera -- and all the TDS team -- for keeping TDS going.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU
What she said!!!
-
Loved today's article about Michelle. Something that has probably been mentioned many times before, though, (and this is definitely NOT a criticism in any way) is why she apparently always tells interviewers that Montana is her home, and where she grew up. Michelle and her family left Montana when she was very little, three or four I think, (possibly even younger) and moved to San Diego. She grew up in San Diego and appeared in children's theatre productions there. Her mother still lives there (at last report), and it was San Diego that Michelle left at 15 to go to Los Angeles and pursue an acting career. For some reason, she apparently chooses to disown any connection to San Diego.
It was well-reported that the head of the San Diego-area Christian School she attended, a sanctamonious prig, to be blunt, sniffily criticized her career because of the sexual content in such roles as Alma, and the lesbian in "If these Walls Could Talk". Perhaps this is why she disavows her San Diego roots. It would be interesting to ask Michelle.
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I think the two celebrity spokespersons for Westinghouse you're referring to are Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, whose company, Desilu, sponsored (and Desi hosted) Westinghouse Desilu Playhouse from 1958-60 (when the Arnazes divorced).
I don't know how to put the link here but on youtube there is a neat "documentary" about the Arnazes imminent WDP show, with Lucy wanting to meet with the Westinghouse rep and buy lots of great Westinghouse items, much to Desi's displeasure. Vivian Vance and William Frawley (as themselves) also appear in the color film. It's a great curio. Lucy is my all-time favorite, and Viv is right up there, as well. (Good news for fans of them: THE LUCY SHOW's first season will be released on DVD, restored, and full of extras, on July 21!)
Sorry to get off track.
Mark
-
I think you are right, Mark.
Take a look.
http://automaticwasher.org/VID/COMM/Westinghouse1959.wmv (http://automaticwasher.org/VID/COMM/Westinghouse1959.wmv)
-
You can be sure, if it's Westinghouse.
Very good, Mark and Gary.
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i don't know about lucy and desi, but the first thing that came to my mind was an absolute association of betty furness as spokeswoman for westinghouse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTiqcFhPFWI
and DAMN those commercials were long (although at least there was mercifully only one at a time)
i do remember lucy and desi hawking cigarettes though.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/949907/i_love_lucy_cigarette_ad/
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I really liked the photo cap in Saturday's TDS....can't imagine why. :)
-
i do remember lucy and desi hawking cigarettes though.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/949907/i_love_lucy_cigarette_ad/
And remember "A Thinking Man's Filter, A Smoking Man's Taste"? ;) I recall humorist Jean Kerr referring to "A Thinking Man's Filter" as being "gloriously incomprehensible."
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The football huddle originated at Gallaudet College for the deaf in Washington, DC. In the Wikipedia entry, it says that the college's team noticed their opponents were trying to see and read their signs in order to guess their plays. But I'd always heard that the Gallaudet players were reading the lips of their (hearing) opponents, who then formed a huddle to hide their faces. At any rate, that's where it started.
-
I've heard one description of American football as a committee meeting followed by organized violence.
(I really enjoy our football, by the way!)
-
Wow, seen where I was featured today with my extensive posts a couple weeks ago in the Gardening Corner about planting and harvesting based on moon phase and signs of the zodiac. I know it is short notice, but if you are in a frost free zone now, and you want excellent above ground crops, such as tomatoes, zucchini, cucumbers, peppers, etc.....TOMORROW, Wed, April 29th, is the best day you can plant these. I know for myself, I have had the plants for over a week now, in the garage waiting for the best date to plant...watering them every other day....but they go in the ground tomorrow.
The moon is currently in the 1st quarter, and tomorrow, the 29th the zodiac sign is in the last of a three day monthly cycle of Gemini, but moves to the most fruitful sign of Cancer on the 30th. If you want a good crop of above ground vegetables, tomorrow is the day to plant! And as an added bonus, my area is forecast for rain tomorrow evening.....it just doesn't get any better than this! Will try to keep all posted through the summer with photos and reports on my own crop. Best of luck to all other gardeners out there!
-
It's so very wonderful to see TDS honoring Bea Arthur. Not only did "The Golden Girls" give me a lot of laughters and tears, the sitcom was ground-breaking and courageous in tackling serious issues with humor and humaness. Particularly, they had one episode about Dorothy's (Bea) visiting lesbian friend who has lost her partner and finds herself falling in love with Rose (Betty White), one about Blanche's (Rue McClanahan) brother coming out, followed up by Blanche struggling to accept his brother's relationship with another man. They are some of the most hilarious and well-written episodes of the series, and they always bring out the message that love is love. Bea, thank you for being a friend to the LGBT.
-
Possible news for TDS - Carol Ann Duffy has been appointed Poet Laureate:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/it-was-my-daughter--who-made-me-accept-poets-job-1677653.html
Carol Ann Duffy, the Glasgow born poet who achieved the rare double of critical and popular acclaim, smashed through a glass ceiling yesterday by becoming the first woman Poet Laureate.
Duffy is also the first Scot to hold the post, the first mother, and the first "out" gay.
-
I'm so jealous of Linda, Michael, John, etc. at those pix of Dave's book signing. EVERYTHING happens in the Bay Area! Y'all are so lucky to be there!
Sour grapes,
Mark
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I'm so jealous of Linda, Michael, John, etc. at those pix of Dave's book signing. EVERYTHING happens in the Bay Area! Y'all are so lucky to be there!
Sour grapes,
Mark
Well of course. As we said more than once during the evening, San Francisco is the center of the known Universe.
;D
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I have been giving some thought to Annie Proulx's words in this interview, and I think she is being just a little hard on us her audience, when she says:
"They can’t understand that the story isn’t about Jack and Ennis. It’s about homophobia; it’s about a social situation; it’s about a place and a particular mindset and morality."
She says that for her Jack and Ennis developed "a life of their own."
She almost expected at times that Ennis del Mar would appear, when she was out and about in the countryside.
She also says, "they became very damn real."
If this is the effect that Jack and Ennis had on her, she should not be surprised, having written two such powerful and memorable characters, that they have the same effect on us!
From one feisty older lady to another, you understand!
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I think the two celebrity spokespersons for Westinghouse you're referring to are Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, whose company, Desilu, sponsored (and Desi hosted) Westinghouse Desilu Playhouse from 1958-60 (when the Arnazes divorced).
I don't know how to put the link here but on youtube there is a neat "documentary" about the Arnazes imminent WDP show, with Lucy wanting to meet with the Westinghouse rep and buy lots of great Westinghouse items, much to Desi's displeasure. Vivian Vance and William Frawley (as themselves) also appear in the color film. It's a great curio. Lucy is my all-time favorite, and Viv is right up there, as well. (Good news for fans of them: THE LUCY SHOW's first season will be released on DVD, restored, and full of extras, on July 21!)
Sorry to get off track.
Mark
I think Desilu--and Lucille Ball herself--green lit the original Star Trek in the '60's.
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I find Annie's take on Brokeback rewrites understandable. She wrote a story and two of her characters... out of however many she's created over the years... outgrew their need of the environment she put them in. They outgrew their need of HER. It's like watching your children grow up and go off on their own... you're never prepared for it. And it must be very annoying to constantly be reminded of JUST those two characters and having your story changed every time.
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I personally think she's over-reacting a little bit. When you write a story and leave it open ended like that, and you intend it to be "left open to interpretation", then that is what you get and that's what you should expect. And that is what happened. Some folks took their interpretation of it and expanded on it. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think she should feel honored that her characters touched and inspired so many people.
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I personally think she's over-reacting a little bit. When you write a story and leave it open ended like that, and you intend it to be "left open to interpretation", then that is what you get and that's what you should expect. And that is what happened. Some folks took their interpretation of it and expanded on it. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think she should feel honored that her characters touched and inspired so many people.
As I said over on the Annie Proulx thread, I don't think it is innocent fanfic writers who have been sending her their happy-ending fantasy versions of BBM. They are apparently men who claim they are not gay and who are teling her she got the story wrong. Hello ? There seems to be something misogynistic in their tone.
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I think that it's important to remember that Annie Proulx had been having her fiction published for ten years before 'Brokeback Mountain' appeared. She had published novels which were very open ended - including 'Postcards' where we don't know throughout the novel whether or not the reason that Loyal Blood has left home is due to a rape attempt, an accident or rough sex. And no one (to my knowledge) wrote stories where the ghosts of Loyal's girlfriend Billy and Loyal find happiness in the afterlife - or what would have happened to Loyal and Billy if she hadn't died. Likewise, when she wrote 'Shipping News' no one wrote stories about what would have happened to Quoyle and Petal if Petal hadn't died. She'd been at this for a while and had introduced many characters when 'Brokeback' was put in print - so it's easy (for me) to understand that she could find someone using her characters jarring or unusual, at least.
To be upset that Annie gets ornery about anything misses much of who she is, imho. She complained about 'Shipping News' when it came out and said at the time that she would no longer work with Hollywood. She also said that she wrote 'Shipping News' to silence those who thought that 'Postcards' was too bleak - and she disagreed with people who said that 'Shipping News' had a happy ending - she said that it was simply not a bleak ending and that readers had misinterpreted her meaning. Her comments about 'Crash' and the church of Scientology at the Academy Awards were likewise sour. Annie has lived through three failed marriages - so it's easy for me to understand that her attitude toward happy endings is a bit skeptical.
I think that it's also important for people to remember that by the time she wrote 'Brokeback Mountain' she had won the PEN/ Faulkner Award for Fiction, the National Book Award for fiction and the Pulitzer Prize for fiction - all for things written before 'Brokeback Mountain.' She's a character and an amazing woman (and writer). She has a very cynical and wry sense of humor which shows through in many of her short stories.
I think if you're puzzled about her reactions the best thing you can do is read more of her work.
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Absolutely, Michael !
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I don't think it is innocent fanfic writers who have been sending her
their happy-ending fantasy versions of BBM. They are apparently men
who claim they are not gay and who are teling her she got the story
wrong. Hello ? There seems to be something misogynistic in their tone.
I have a hard time believing that straight men are writing any kind
of stories and sending them to her. We know that it's hard to get straight
men to even SEE the film, much less start writing stories about it afterwards
and then sending them off to Annie herself. There's very few gay men that
even write the fanfic. I find this statement of hers very strange in light of my
own knowledge of those things.
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I posted this in the AP thread.
I did meet someone a couple of years ago who was rewriting the story, and he told me he was going to send it to AP. This guy wasn't writing a sequel or a spinoff. He was changing the original story because he thought AP got it wrong.
I also directed him to the slash threads, LiveJournal, and a couple of other fanfic sites. He wasn't interested in those.
I think it's possible that there are a lot more people out there who do not associate with the rest of the fans. What bothers me most is that AP probably doesn't realize that, although I don't remember her ever directing these comments at "the fans' in general. I've seen 'fans' referred to in the titles and bylines of articles, but she never said that.
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I think that it's important to remember that Annie Proulx had been having her fiction published for ten years before 'Brokeback Mountain' appeared. She had published novels which were very open ended - including 'Postcards' where we don't know throughout the novel whether or not the reason that Loyal Blood has left home is due to a rape attempt, an accident or rough sex. And no one (to my knowledge) wrote stories where the ghosts of Loyal's girlfriend Billy and Loyal find happiness in the afterlife - or what would have happened to Loyal and Billy if she hadn't died. Likewise, when she wrote 'Shipping News' no one wrote stories about what would have happened to Quoyle and Petal if Petal hadn't died. She'd been at this for a while and had introduced many characters when 'Brokeback' was put in print - so it's easy (for me) to understand that she could find someone using her characters jarring or unusual, at least.
To be upset that Annie gets ornery about anything misses much of who she is, imho. She complained about 'Shipping News' when it came out and said at the time that she would no longer work with Hollywood. She also said that she wrote 'Shipping News' to silence those who thought that 'Postcards' was too bleak - and she disagreed with people who said that 'Shipping News' had a happy ending - she said that it was simply not a bleak ending and that readers had misinterpreted her meaning. Her comments about 'Crash' and the church of Scientology at the Academy Awards were likewise sour. Annie has lived through three failed marriages - so it's easy for me to understand that her attitude toward happy endings is a bit skeptical.
I think that it's also important for people to remember that by the time she wrote 'Brokeback Mountain' she had won the PEN/ Faulkner Award for Fiction, the National Book Award for fiction and the Pulitzer Prize for fiction - all for things written before 'Brokeback Mountain.' She's a character and an amazing woman (and writer). She has a very cynical and wry sense of humor which shows through in many of her short stories.
I think if you're puzzled about her reactions the best thing you can do is read more of her work.
Even though it was me that first said that she was being a little hard on fans of Jack and Ennis, I agree with you, Michael. She has such a wry, "country" way of looking at things which is what makes her writing so great.
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I have been giving some thought to Annie Proulx's words in this interview, and I think she is being just a little hard on us her audience, when she says:
"They can’t understand that the story isn’t about Jack and Ennis. It’s about homophobia; it’s about a social situation; it’s about a place and a particular mindset and morality."
If that's all readers had seen in the story, I doubt they would have remembered it a month later. And IMO it's not a matter of a failure to 'understand'; it's the reality that people reading a story with characters that captivate them aren't often interested in pleasing the author, nor responding in the way the author might want them to. The characters develop a life of their own in that respect.
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And from her own words, Jack and Ennis even did that for Annie Proulx, so she shouldn't really be cross if they do it for us too!
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I did meet someone a couple of years ago who was rewriting the story, and he told me he was going to send it to AP. This guy wasn't writing a sequel or a spinoff. He was changing the original story because he thought AP got it wrong.
Was he straight?
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I did meet someone a couple of years ago who was rewriting the story, and he told me he was going to send it to AP. This guy wasn't writing a sequel or a spinoff. He was changing the original story because he thought AP got it wrong.
Was he straight?
I don't know. We never discussed it.
He could be like a lot of guys I've had met over the years who say they are straight but still enjoy sex with men.
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I personally think she's over-reacting a little bit. When you write a story and leave it open ended like that, and you intend it to be "left open to interpretation", then that is what you get and that's what you should expect. And that is what happened. Some folks took their interpretation of it and expanded on it. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think she should feel honored that her characters touched and inspired so many people.
I think there is nothing wrong with wishing another ending of the story, and even writing it yourself. After all, that's what a lot of us do. It's a way of healing after the grief and devastation caused by the story or movie.
But to send it off to the author, hence implying she got it all wrong and doesn't know how to write her own story, is very presumptuos!!!!! It's waaaay over the top IMO!!!
I can very well understand her reaction if she got a lot of those letters, telling her how her story should have ended!!
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I did meet someone a couple of years ago who was rewriting the story, and he told me he was going to send it to AP. This guy wasn't writing a sequel or a spinoff. He was changing the original story because he thought AP got it wrong.
Yeah, this is what I mean.
I really don't understand how a person can get themselves to do such a thing.
IMO it's highly disrespectful of the author!!!
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and speaking of authors, here is a big congratulations to all the forum authors who have had their work published!
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TDS is always great, this issue was a really fun read.
I especially loved Melisande's debut as a TDS author -- she has contributed ideas in the past, but she has proved her skill in telling a great story now-- watch out! well, hours of slash practice certainly haven't hurt!
The football huddle, that was great! And now we have links to illustrative videos!
You TDS team are a fabulous bunch!
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Hi there. This is my first post to this place. How did someone make the pix of H and J in the tent look so saturated with color?? Please PM me if you know. Love it, along with the Spring Morning pix.
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I think that was probably done by Jimmy (gnash). He is a graphics guru.
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and speaking of authors, here is a big congratulations to all the forum authors who have had their work published!
Yes indeed!! ......and the best way to congratulate them is to actually read one or two!! Us slashers from the slash thread know that Zero at the Bone is bloody dynamite!! >:D......( and I do mean "bloody")
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Hi there. This is my first post to this place. How did someone make the pix of H and J in the tent look so saturated with color?? Please PM me if you know. Love it, along with the Spring Morning pix.
hi there, well, it wasn't me. that was taken from the original post, but i think it was a result of just lightening the screen shot (which is pretty dark in the movie). or else they increased the saturation in photoshop or something.
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going with the first answer to the trivia that popped into my head... the bay of fundy
eta:
answer confirmed...
http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/highesttide.html
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wow, I made it into TDS *beams*
Thank you, guys. I am glad you liked my pics. I actually lived there but it was kinda like a long vacation (student exchange - lol ;) ). Hence my user name, anyway, thanks again, made me smile to see them there.
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wow, I made it into TDS *beams*
Thank you, guys. I am glad you liked my pics. I actually lived there but it was kinda like a long vacation (student exchange - lol ;) ). Hence my user name, anyway, thanks again, made me smile to see them there.
They're great photos and really deserve the praise! Congrats Acquaalta!
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Highest tides occur in the Bay of Fundy in Nova Scotia.
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This week, forum member neatfreak gave an account of change occurring in her church and how she became part of it. Troubled by the persistent hostility of high-profile churches and other religious groups to gays and lesbians, and "after a couple of years of reading pretty much everything I could get my hands on -- with help from friends here and elsewhere -- I felt confident enough to schedule an appointment with my senior pastor of the church where I am employed as a Sunday School director.
A simple 'thank you' seems woefully inadequate, Betty, but carries a huge debt of gratitude. It's one thing to sit at a keyboard and 'talk' about these issues, and quite another to be out there in the trenches, educating and helping others. You're a gem!
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Just a quick note of thanks to the TDS staff for running the article on Dan Nicoletta in 'The Daily Sheet.' I ran into him yesterday and told him (and sent him the link) and he was over the moon.
Thanks so much!
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Well the Bay of Fundy has the highest tidal range, but where has the highest tide would depend on your definition.
But I guess that was what was meant in the question.
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Much, much kudos to neatfreak for her work with her church, and for her update on developments in her part of the world - geographically and socially speaking.
For those who are not religious, it may appear that working with churches is an inconsequential corner of the struggle for human rights for GLBT folks. I believe quite strongly that it is of wider consequence, however. A religious community's journey from "not excluding" to "tolerating" to "accepting" to "affirming" is work that happens at a deeper level than laws that permit or protect. It parallels the personal journeys that have been chronicled here, as many folks have travelled a similar individual road with respect to their own sexuality and/or that of others. And as many of us know from the BBM/forum experience, it releases an immensely powerful energy, call it what you will. This can grow, and can change the course of events.
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Congratulations, neatfreak!
More power to your elbow!
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Thanks for mentioning the Contest this evening in TDS! If anyone is interested in watching it and discussing it, a link to tonight's webcast can be found here. Also, a plugin from a company called Octoshape must be downloaded in order to watch it.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=35960.msg1588371#msg1588371
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Well the Bay of Fundy has the highest tidal range, but where has the highest tide would depend on your definition.
But I guess that was what was meant in the question.
That's the way I read it ;D
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I'm responding to the question about the women on US currency.
I have a bit of an edge, because I work in a bank.....so I'm putting my answers in white, to give other members a chance to place their answers.
If you want to see my answers, use the mouse to highlight the next post.
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Martha Washington
Susan B. Anthony
Sacagawea
I believe that's right
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Spacer
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I thought instead of
Martha Washington
it was
Lady Liberty in various forms and headdress.
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spacer
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Fritz.....
(highlight)
I'm not sure Lady Liberty counts.....she's not a real woman, but a representation of a woman.
but of course I could be wrong.
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Quite possible, Chuck! We'll have to wait with bated breath for a week!
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well, while you two blow word bubbles, i will name the two i know off the top of my head...
sacajawea and susan b anthony
and then go back and look up who i missed
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i didn't know they honored one of the weather girls :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOhg8YuckZY
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Ok I'll play and I'm not shy about my answers. There are more than 3 women on U.S. coins and currency. I'm including commemorative coins in my list. These women are all depicted on legal tender.
Regular Circulating coins/currency:
Sacagawea
Susan B. Anthony
Martha Washington
Helen Keller
Commemorative coins:
Queen Isabella of Spain
Eunice Kennedy Shriver
Virginia Dare and Eleonor Dare
Abigail Adams
Dolley Madison
Elizabeth Monroe
Louisa Adams
Anna Harrison
Letitia Tyler
Julia Tyler
Sarah Polk
Margaret Taylor
----------------------------------------------
A goddess, so technically not a woman:
Liberty
There is a possibility that James Barton Longacre used his daughter as the model for this portait on a 1 cent coin, but it has never been authenticated:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2F1859_cent_obv.jpg&hash=47658917fa5b82ad386edfaf4029bbf02a8e487f)
Anna Williams has been rumored to be the model for Liberty on the Morgan Dollar, and Theresa Franchesca may have been the model for the Peace Dollar.
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i didn't know they honored one of the weather girls :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOhg8YuckZY
LOVE this! I didn't know about it.
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Susan B anthony
Sacajawea
Queen (of Hawai'i)
Ke Ha Ne Ha Na (sp)
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I see Chuck and Fritz had fun playing secret agents here.
::) ;D
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You found us out!
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I sure did!
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Susan B anthony
Sacajawea
Queen (of Hawai'i)
Ke Ha Ne Ha Na (sp)
were you shooting for queen liliokelani?
or king kamehameha?
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at least they didn't post using their own urine
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Interesting discussion today in TDS about the Pentecost and how it figures into our favorite film. This quote by the author got my curiosity up......
"Neither the original short story nor film version of Brokeback Mountain specify a date for Ennis' and Jack's extended supper followed by the consummation in the tent hours later; however, it was probably close to Pentecost Sunday, which fell on June 2nd in 1963."
So I checked the moon phases for 1963. If you recall in the film, shortly after heading up the mountain with the sheep, we see Jack looking back at the camp below in the dim light of a full moon. Then, it is presumed the next full moon is when we have the FNIT scene. Checking these dates for 1963 reveals there was a full moon on May 8th, and then the next one was June 7th.
In other words, if June 2nd, was a Sunday in 1963 (which it was) the following Friday night would have been June 7th.
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Neat, Charlie!
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In other words, if June 2nd, was a Sunday in 1963 (which it was) the following Friday night would have been June 7th.
The date I gave was based on the date of Pentecost Sunday in 1963 -- Pentecost is 7 weeks after Easter. So by your calculations, the FNIT would have been five days later. Close enough for E&J's own pentecostal fire!
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Yep, pentecostal, coital bliss indeed. ;D
And your dates are solid....in 1963, Easter Sunday was April 14th, and seven weeks later, June 2nd, would have been accession (Pentecost) Sunday.
Here is the link to see a 1963 calendar,
http://www.number-one.org/~rigg/dlr0164.htm
and here is a helpful link for moon phases from 1950 - 2060
http://wise-obs.tau.ac.il/~eran/Sky/MoonPhase.html
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wasn't there a woman secretary of the treasury a few decades back whose signature was on dollar bills? kj
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wasn't there a woman secretary of the treasury a few decades back whose signature was on dollar bills? kj
No. There has never been a woman Secretary of the Treasury.
There have been several women as Treasurer of the United States.
The Treasurer now advises the Director of the Mint, the Director of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, the Deputy Secretary and the Secretary of the Treasury on matters relating to coinage, currency and the production of other instruments by the United States. The Treasurer's signature, as well as the Treasury Secretary's, must appear on Federal Reserve notes before they can become legal tender
Eager to appoint a woman to a prominent political position, President Harry S. Truman appointed Georgia Neese Clark Treasurer in 1949. Since then, every subsequent Treasurer has been a woman, and five of the past nine Treasurers have also been Hispanic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_the_United_States)
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Yep, pentecostal, coital bliss indeed. ;D
And your dates are solid....in 1963, Easter Sunday was April 14th, and seven weeks later, June 2nd, would have been accession (Pentecost) Sunday.
Here is the link to see a 1963 calendar,
http://www.number-one.org/~rigg/dlr0164.htm
and here is a helpful link for moon phases from 1950 - 2060
http://wise-obs.tau.ac.il/~eran/Sky/MoonPhase.html
Thanks a lot everyone, for this, it is yet another indication of why so many things made sense in ways I couldn't at the time account for. I like this particular connection very much, since I never did know what that 'tongues of fire' stuff meant.
And of course - there are those who would suspect that some of the apostles were gay, maybe that's how they too found each other :)
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wasn't there a woman secretary of the treasury a few decades back whose signature was on dollar bills? kj
No. There has never been a woman Secretary of the Treasury.
There have been several women as Treasurer of the United States.
The Treasurer now advises the Director of the Mint, the Director of the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, the Deputy Secretary and the Secretary of the Treasury on matters relating to coinage, currency and the production of other instruments by the United States. The Treasurer's signature, as well as the Treasury Secretary's, must appear on Federal Reserve notes before they can become legal tender
Eager to appoint a woman to a prominent political position, President Harry S. Truman appointed Georgia Neese Clark Treasurer in 1949. Since then, every subsequent Treasurer has been a woman, and five of the past nine Treasurers have also been Hispanic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasurer_of_the_United_States)
When I first started paying attention to currency back in the Eisenhower administration, I was fascinated by the name Ivy Baker Priest, the then Treasurer of the United States.
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When I first started paying attention to currency back in the Eisenhower administration, I was fascinated by the name Ivy Baker Priest, the then Treasurer of the United States.
Priest was the mother of Pat Priest, an actress best known for playing Marilyn Munster in the 1960s television show The Munsters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Baker_Priest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Baker_Priest)
"We women don't care too much about getting our pictures on money as long as we can get our hands on it." - Ivy Baker Priest
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Didn't know that, John! Thanks! Amazing what connections there are!
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Didn't know that, John! Thanks! Amazing what connections there are!
I suppose if I dig a little deeper I'll find the connection to Brokeback Mountain ;D
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That was too easy. Pat Priest was in an episode of the Jack Benny Show.
Say it fast and you'll get the idea:
Jack and Dennis Do Impersonations (1964) TV episode
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0697344/ (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0697344/)
;D
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Oh, you ARE good! Jack and Dennis, Jack and Dennis.
Too funny, John!
Off to bed. Night, all.
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Well, she's from Utah, which borders on Wyoming!
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Ok seriously now.
Pat Priest is in the new movie "Soupernatural" with
Lou Ferrigno, who was in "Frank McKlusky, C.I."
with
Randy Quaid
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Oh, you ARE good! Jack and Dennis, Jack and Dennis.
Too funny, John!
Off to bed. Night, all.
you all are too good! thanks for the info on women, treasuries, and the brokeback connection...and the lively entertainment. i must follow here more closely, and i will be educated.
kj
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Yep, pentecostal, coital bliss indeed. ;D
And your dates are solid....in 1963, Easter Sunday was April 14th, and seven weeks later, June 2nd, would have been accession (Pentecost) Sunday.
Here is the link to see a 1963 calendar,
http://www.number-one.org/~rigg/dlr0164.htm
and here is a helpful link for moon phases from 1950 - 2060
http://wise-obs.tau.ac.il/~eran/Sky/MoonPhase.html
Thanks a lot everyone, for this, it is yet another indication of why so many things made sense in ways I couldn't at the time account for. I like this particular connection very much, since I never did know what that 'tongues of fire' stuff meant.
And of course - there are those who would suspect that some of the apostles were gay, maybe that's how they too found each other :)
I'd been aware of the reference to the 'disciple Jesus loved' and led to believe it was John. But a Welsh minister has written a story based on his studies identifying the disciple Jesus loved as Lazarus, the one he raised from the dead, the brother of Martha and Mary.
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"Reading the book or seeing the movie… which should come first?
It's like the age-old question of the chicken and the egg, and no one
seems entirely satisfied with the answer."
I enjoyed pondering this article this morning.
I like when a book and film are complimentary.
I believe BBM falls into that category, if I can include
a short story here.
I guess the answer is that it's a personal choice. I knew
that Jurassic Park, for example, was going to be made into
a film and I wanted to read the book, but I was sure if I did
that the film would be disappointing. So, I decided to wait
until I saw the film. I know one thing: If I had read the book
first, I would've waited two hours plus for terradactyls to show
up (which never did until the third film) and another scene which
was in the second film.
In the 1980's I read the novel of Wuthering Heights. I then
decided to see the film. I did not know that the film only
covers the first half of the book and I was caught off guard.
It turned me off to the film because I was disappointed. But
I'm giving it a second chance as its in the 1939 series next
month at the academy. And, I have not just finished the book.
For me, if I like a film, it has often inspired me to read the book
afterwards, and usually I find that is best because a novel adds
more to the films by their very nature. The problem with reading
novels first is that you may wait for things that never show up in
the films.
Another film and book that I think compliment each other is
JAWS. The book is a nice summer read with some cerebral
scares in it. The film actually changes the ending a bit and
is hardly cerebral, but they both have their attributes.
I was thinking of the question--what books have you read that
have been better as a film?
I have a couple entries.
I have read three books by James M. Cain. Double Indemnity,
Mildred Pierce and The Postman Always Rings Twice. All three
films in my opinion, are much better than the books.
Another: I was bored to tears reading The Notebook, but I
found the film really wonderful.
Anyonpe else have a selection?
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I was 13 or 14 when I first saw 'To Kill a Mockingbird' on tv.
My aunt Judy owned the book, and I borrowed it from her soon after seeing the film.
Judy belonged to a mail order book club, and after reading the book I asked her to order a copy for me.
I really wanted to see the film again after reading the book, but I had to wait about 20 years.
'Valley of the Dolls' was another book that Judy owned, and I read that before seeing the movie. When the movie came out I couldn't wait to see it. I think I saw it 4 or 5 times in Bay City before the manager of the theater decided I was too young to see it.
Another film that inspired me to read the book would be 'A Christmas Carol', and that story led me to read other Dickens books. 'Oliver Twist' (no relation to Jack) was one of my favorites. I saw the musical film after reading the book, and I was disappointed with the film. Several years later I got the opportunity to meet Cameron Mackintosh while he was in Bay City to help promote the touring show which was opening in Saginaw. I absolutely loved that production. I got to sit through 3 dress rehersals and 5 performances.
I read a lot of 'Pippi Longstocking' when I was a kid, but as much as I loved those stories I was never inspired to see the movie.
I got involved with theater in college, and I bought scripts of my favorite plays for years. A lot of those scripts were for shows I hadn't seen yet. Those scripts led me to see several plays.
The show I wanted to see most was 'Six Degrees of Separation'. I finally got the chance to see the play in London in the early 90's, with Stockard Channing. It was outstanding. A few years later I saw the movie. It was ok, but the stage play was much better. Channing was excellent in both, and I would have loved to see Donald Sutherland doing the play with her. Will Smith played Paul in the movie, but the guy who played the part in London would have been much better. One of my favorite scenes in the play is when Paul delivers his monologue about the imagination:
“The imagination. That’s our out. Our imagination teaches us our limits
and then how to grow beyond those limits. The imagination says listen to
me. I am your darkest voice. I am your 4 a.m. voice. I am the voice that
wakes you up and says this is what I’m afraid of. Do not listen to me at your
peril. The imagination is the noon voice that sees clearly and says yes,
this is what I want for my life. It’s there to sort out your nightmare, to
show you the exit from the maze of your nightmare, to transform the nightmare into dreams that
become your bedrock. If we don’t listen to that voice, it dies. It
shrivels. It vanishes. The imagination is not our escape. On the
contrary, the imagination is the place we are all trying to get to.”
and then later in the story Paul discusses 'Catcher in the Rye' and the 'death of the imagination' :
The aura around Salinger's book -which, perhaps, should be read by everyone but young men - is this.
It mirrors like a fun-house mirror, and amplifies like a distorted speaker
one of the great tragedies of our times - the death of the imagination.
Because what else is paralysis?
The imagination has been so debased that imagination... being imaginative, rather than
being the linchpin of our existence, now stands as a synonym for something outside ourselves.
Like science fiction.
Or some new use for tangerine slices on raw pork chops -
"What an imaginative summer recipe."
And Star Wars - "so imaginative".
And Star Trek - "so imaginative".
And Lord of the Rings, all those dwarves - "so imaginative".
The imagination has moved out of the realm of being our link,
our most personal link, with our inner lives and the world outside that world,
this world we share.
What is schizophrenia but a horrifying state where what's in here doesn't match what's out there?
Why has imagination become a synonym for style?
I believe the imagination is the passport that we create to help take us into the real world.
I believe the imagination is merely another phrase for what is most uniquely us.
Jung says "The greatest sin is to be unconscious."
Our boy Holden says "What scares me most is the other guy's face."
"It wouldn't be so bad if you could both be blindfolded."
Most of the time, the faces that we face are not the other guys', but our own faces.
And it is the worst kind of yellowness to be so scared of yourself that you put blindfolds on
rather than deal with yourself.
To face ourselves - that's the hard thing.
The imagination... that's God's gift to make
the act of self-examination bearable.
I can't say which should come first, the book or the movie, and I guess it doesn't matter. I've enjoyed both experiences.
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I like and admire Adam Lambert, however, the media coverage of him seems so stilted. Is it so rare for a teen/young person in the US to wear black nail polish and eyeliner ("guyliner" - jeez purleeze!), that it's one of the main things written about him?
Half the boys in my school (gay, gay-acting or straight) wore eyeliner and nail polish at some point. That was the early 80's, like 30 years ago. What is the deal? David Bowie was rocking and shocking the US nearly 10 years before that.
It's about time people there moved on. Why is it news worthy? I just don't follow.
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It's about time people there moved on. Why is it news worthy? I just don't follow.
Some of us have moved on. To this:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2Fsusan-boyle.jpg&hash=c38b83812ee39f7afe72e0d122f88635c231f15f)
::) ::) ;D
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I like and admire Adam Lambert, however, the media coverage of him seems so stilted. Is it so rare for a teen/young person in the US to wear black nail polish and eyeliner ("guyliner" - jeez purleeze!), that it's one of the main things written about him?
Half the boys in my school (gay, gay-acting or straight) wore eyeliner and nail polish at some point. That was the early 80's, like 30 years ago. What is the deal? David Bowie was rocking and shocking the US nearly 10 years before that.
It's about time people there moved on. Why is it news worthy? I just don't follow.
I was sitting in an IT session at college the other month, when the teacher, a woman, told the group, 95% male, that they shouldn't go to interviews with CHIPPED nail varnish because it creates a bad impression.
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LOL!
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It's about time people there moved on. Why is it news worthy? I just don't follow.
Some of us have moved on. To this:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2Fsusan-boyle.jpg&hash=c38b83812ee39f7afe72e0d122f88635c231f15f)
::) ::) ;D
If only it was moving on. "national embarrassment" maybe too strong a phrase, but........
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but she does sing that one song well... :D
there rest of the cast of bgt this year is extremely talented. why is it the UK sends such LAME-OS to eurvision?
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but she does sing that one song well... :D
there rest of the cast of bgt this year is extremely talented. why is it the UK sends such LAME-OS to eurvision?
if only we knew!
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I have a couple entries.
I have read three books by James M. Cain. Double Indemnity,
Mildred Pierce and The Postman Always Rings Twice. All three
films in my opinion, are much better than the books.
Another: I was bored to tears reading The Notebook, but I
found the film really wonderful.
I haven't bothered to see the film of the Notebook, because I didn't like the book much. I'll give it a go.
I'd agree about the James M. Cain books/films. I liked the books but the films are outstanding. Another writer who springs to mind is Stephen King - nothing wrong with his books, but they often seem to work better as films: The Shawshank Redemption, Misery, Carrie, Stand By Me, etc.
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I haven't read 'The Notebook', but I agree with Lyle-it was a wonderful film. Definitely worth a go.
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Thanks so much for the excerpt from the article "LGBT Seniors: Out of the Closet and Nowhere to Go." It made me feel less isolated and though a sad article, I know now that I am not the only person to feel fear. That's been one of the scariest things about my life of late, getting ready to turn 50 and being all alone. I think it's one reason why I love THE GOLDEN GIRLS so much. It's nice to see even a fictitious show about older people living together, being there for one another, and helping to ease that crushing loneliness suffered so often by older singles.
One of the reasons I lived at home with my mother is that I didn't want her to be alone in her later life. I was with her till the end, in 2000, when she died at 80. I must confess that sometimes I think all right, dammit, where's my someone to be with me like I was for Mama? Selfish to think that way, I know.
I don't know what life has in store but I hope that companshipship--the good kind, with the right person--will be involved. Reading the SS and seeing Ennis in the film all alone after Jack's death just rips me apart.
Mark
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i'm glad you enjoyed the article, mark. i just got a pm from somebody saying they thought it's already been run in TDS, but it's a good thing it did as you had a chance to read it.
and yes, the golden girls is an example of old people sticking together to make life easier -- and hilarious. :D hopefully you'll find yourself in a similar situation, with friends who provide inspiration and the challenge to go on. who would you be? rose or dorothy? LOL. >:D
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I don't think it was in TDS before today, but I did post a few paragraphs from the article a couple of weeks ago when it was first published at epgn
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One of the reasons I lived at home with my mother is that I didn't want her to be alone in her later life. I was with her till the end, in 2000, when she died at 80. I must confess that sometimes I think all right, dammit, where's my someone to be with me like I was for Mama? Selfish to think that way, I know.
(((((Mark)))) I know just where you're coming from. :'( :'(
I don't know what life has in store but I hope that companshipship--the good kind, with the right person--will be involved. Reading the SS and seeing Ennis in the film all alone after Jack's death just rips me apart.
Mark
Someone will turn up, some source of comfort to fill up those empty spaces.
:-*
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i'm glad you enjoyed the article, mark. i just got a pm from somebody saying they thought it's already been run in TDS, but it's a good thing it did as you had a chance to read it.
and yes, the golden girls is an example of old people sticking together to make life easier -- and hilarious. :D hopefully you'll find yourself in a similar situation, with friends who provide inspiration and the challenge to go on. who would you be? rose or dorothy? LOL. >:D
Definitely Dorothy...
Mark
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^^ you'd probably look swell in a caftan, LOL. ennis del zbornak. :D
it's too bad they got rid of the gay housekeeper (coco) they had in the pilot show.... no doubt from people calling and complaining... ::)
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Shady Pines, Jimmy! >:D
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That would George Orwell's, 1984.
Oh such torture it was.
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That story by jpwagoneer1964 brought tears to my eyes.... :'( :'(
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I very much enjoyed the "Still Blue" article in June 09th's edition of TDS. Thanks. :)
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Strictly speaking, the title is Nineteen Eighty-Four, and not the numerals.
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Strictly speaking, the title is Nineteen Eighty-Four, and not the numerals.
Strictly speaking, that is very pedantic!!!
;D
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:-* :-* :-*
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I very much enjoyed the "Still Blue" article in June 09th's edition of TDS. Thanks. :)
and i very much enjoyed the photo that accompanied the article -- the shadows remind me of the shadow cast in the short story:
They had stood that way for a long time in front of the fire, its burning tossing ruddy chunks of light, the shadow of their bodies a single column against the rock. The minutes ticked by from the round watch in Ennis’s pocket, from the sticks in the fire settling into coals.
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That's a really nice passage, gnash. I'm going to pinch it and use it somewhere else. :D
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another quiz-type question today
only two angels are named in the Bible - Michael & Gabriel also there is Lucifer/who was an annointed cherub prior to becoming Satan.
other angels are named in apocryphal texts like "The Book of Enoch"
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another quiz-type question today
only two angels are named in the Bible - Michael & Gabriel also there is Lucifer/who was an annointed cherub prior to becoming Satan.
other angels are named in apocryphal texts like "The Book of Enoch"
A little further info on this...
Satan as a messenger of the Lord in the OT....
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sat2.htm
And Lucifer in the OT as the planet Venus...
http://www.crivoice.org/lucifer.html
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cool about Ang touring Wyoming to get inspiration for BBM
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Don't forget Raphael, though he only appears in the deuterocanonical Tobit.
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(snip)
Nathan Bailey and Marlene Zuk, biologists at the University of California, Riverside, found that same-sex relationships were a universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, seen in everything from worms to frogs to birds. "It's clear that same-sex sexual behavior extends far beyond the well-known examples that dominate both the scientific and popular literature: for example bonobos, dolphins, penguins and fruit flies," said Bailey.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/jun/17/same-sex-relationships-gay-animals
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I've thought for ages that Jonny Wilkinson looked like Heath, but I get all sorts of stick for saying things like that around here, "Oh you always think someone looks like someone else."
Your list of look-a-likes restores my confidence in my perceptions! :D :D
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I found the comparison of Jake G. and Anne Frank, well.... not very appropriate. :-\
But some of the others were striking!
;)
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The only X-rated film to win the Best Picture Oscar was 1969's MIDNIGHT COWBOY.
Mark
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By the time I saw COWBOY the rating had become an R.
Good movie. Ratso and Joe are partly the Jack and Ennis of an earlier generation.
(Plus, the nominated two actors and supporting actress lost their Oscar bids. Hisssssssssssss...)
Mark
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Good movie. Ratso and Joe are partly the Jack and Ennis of an earlier generation.
Ewwwww. I don't think that at all. I saw it when I was a teen (at the theater) and was overwhelmed by the homophobia of the film - Ratso always calling people 'fag' and Joe beating a man with a telephone after a trick.
It was a decent story about men on the down and out who loved each other as friends and supported each other (even after Ratso ripped off Joe). But a romantic love story? Hardly.
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Folks, I tried to post this item at tds@davecullen.com.as instructed, but it didn't work. I hope you don't mind that I'm posting it this way instead.
"Gay-friendly" people unconsciously feel that two men kissing in public is morally wrong
(snip)
While walking through a park in Budapest a few weeks ago, I spied a very strange sight. In that fleeting moment between sensation and perception, when images settle on the retina but aren’t yet processed in a form fully accessible to conscious awareness, what I saw was a multicolored, gyrating mass of vaguely human substance, squirming and twisting on a park bench in animalistic fervor. My brain, unfortunately, was soon able to peel apart what I was actually observing, which was a particularly corpulent young woman devouring a young man half her size in what can only be described as a feast of open-mouthed, public lovemaking. The expression, “get a room,” seemed wholly inadequate for this carnal scene. “Get a porn studio” was more like it.
And that’s when the sad truth struck me: with the exception perhaps of just a handful of places in the world (and even those are questionable), gay couples are not free to participate in this most basic, mindless and normal exhibition of romantic behavior. In both the UK and the US, for example, I’ve got to first scout out who’s in our immediate vicinity before daring to even brush my pinky finger against Juan’s hand as we’re walking side-by-side.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=unconscious-disgust-gay-behavior&page=1
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Midnight Cowboy showing this week in Los Angeles.
LOS ANGELES FILM FESTIVAL presents:
Jon Voight in person
Midnight Cowboy
Thu Jun 25 at 7:30 PM
Midnight Cowboy is perhaps most famous for its poignant look at the friendship between gigolo Joe Buck and lowlife schemer "Ratso" Rizzo, played by Dustin Hoffman. Rizzo (about whom the word "skuzzy" was reportedly first coined) initially exploits Buck, then takes him under his wing, forging a tender, if volatile friendship. Many have also observed that Midnight Cowboy is a gay love story, forging the road to Brokeback Mountain. Four decades after is release, the film offers fresh insight into the shifting sexual mores and sensibilities of Hollywood and America at large
::)
I agree with Michael. I never saw this as a gay love story.
http://www.tft.ucla.edu/calendar/screening/midnight-cowboy/ (http://www.tft.ucla.edu/calendar/screening/midnight-cowboy/)
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Good movie. Ratso and Joe are partly the Jack and Ennis of an earlier generation.
Ewwwww. I don't think that at all. I saw it when I was a teen (at the theater) and was overwhelmed by the homophobia of the film - Ratso always calling people 'fag' and Joe beating a man with a telephone after a trick.
It was a decent story about men on the down and out who loved each other as friends and supported each other (even after Ratso ripped off Joe). But a romantic love story? Hardly.
I don't think it's a gay love story, either, or one bit romantic! And I said PARTLY Jack and Ennis. I was referring to two lost souls who found a connection with each other and who hardly had a connection with anyone else. Certainly not much with women. So back off, Michael and John. You two are so mean!!!! I feel like Barnard Hughes after being beaten with the telephone.
Funny that the director of MC was gay.
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I was commenting on the article from the film festival.
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I don't think it's a gay love story, either, or one bit romantic! And I said PARTLY Jack and Ennis. I was referring to two lost souls who found a connection with each other and who hardly had a connection with anyone else. Certainly not much with women. So back off, Michael and John. You two are so mean!!!! I feel like Barnard Hughes after being beaten with the telephone.
Funny that the director of MC was gay.
Actually I'm not being mean here - just analytical. But I could be mean if you would prefer. ;D
I don't see Ratso and Joe as even partly Jack and Ennis. When they get together Ratso is trying to rip off Joe and does so repeatedly. Ratso is pretty vile throughout the film and Joe is no prize either. They are indeed two lost souls who find a connection with each other - but it goes through prostitution and gay bashing. I suppose there is an element of pathos that links the two films, but I'd have to point out that since it is Ennis and Joe survive you are comparing Jack and Ratso - which is real geranium in your cranium territory (to quote Ann Landers).
I always saw 'Midnight Cowboy' as being sad because the primary characters are losers who really don't have a chance - Joe is way out of his depth in New York and Ratso is trying every scam he can think of and still can't make it. The sadness (in part) I feel in BBM is because there is a possibility of a positive outcome and moments of bliss in the film. In 'Midnight Cowboy' there doesn't even seem to be that (unless you like Greyhound bus rides to Florida).
John Schlesinger was gay, but I've never really thought of 'Midnight Cowboy' as a gay film (although I know that there are those who do). He was also a British director and films from the UK had been dealing with gay themes in an adult fashion for nearly a decade by this point - since 'Victim' in 1961 - so he didn't feel particularly compelled to give a positive spin on being gay in NYC in the late 60s. Now 'Sunday Bloody Sunday' (released two years later) is much more of a 'gay' film, although in a typically adult and intelligent British manner.
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I've never known quite what to make of Midnight Cowboy.
I first saw it in college on network television. "What the
hell was that about?" I think sums it up nicely. Why even
try to show that cut-up on tv?
Then I saw it on vhs in the 80's. Pan & scan. Not optimal.
I finally saw it on the big screen in April of 2003 when AMPAS
screened it as part of their 75th anniversary restrospective.
Brenda Vaccaro and Jon Voight attended as well as John
Schlesinger's life partner, photographer Michael Childers.
I haven't read much film criticism about Midnight Cowboy
and because John Schlesinger was gay I also wonder about
the homophobic aspect that many feel about it. I don't have
answers.
I, myself, have never viewed it as a gay love story, but there's
definitely a quality of friendship and affection that develops
between the two street people. I also never thought of it as a
romantic love story. (Nor does any of the brief synopses I just
read about it. 'Friendship' is the most often used term.)
The "Oscar Notes" on the program might be of interest here:
John Schlesinger remembers a studio executive's memo that
recommended that "if we could clean this up and add a few songs,
it could be a great vehicle for Elvis Presley." In 1965, the original
screenwriter brought producer Jerome Hellman to an off-broadway
show featuring Dustin Hoffman and he came away convinced he
found his Ratso Rizzo. After the script changed writers and went
through several rewrites, Hoffman had already completed The
Graduate. Executives now thought that Hoffman was too squeaky
clean to play the part. To prove that he wasn't the clean-cut Benjamin
character, he "auditioned" for the disapproving executive by passing
himself off as a pesky homeless beggar on a New York street corner,
before finally identifying himself. Michael Sarrazin and Lee Majors were
both the leading contenders for the role of Joe Buck, but the casting
director championed Jon Voight. (SIDEBAR: The original screen test
of Jon Voight was played at the screening I attended. Don't know if it's
on any dvd's as an extra. Also, I just read Tab Hunter's autobiography.
He unsuccessfully tried to get the role of Joe Buck. John Schlesinger
finally told him: "I agree that you'd be just perfect for the role--if you were
ten years younger.") Filming took place in New York City, Sweetwater &
Big Spring, Texas, Hollywood and Miami, Florida. (SIDEBAR: The way
it's written I don't know if it means Hollywood, CA or Hollywood, Florida.)
In order to maintain his limp, Hoffman wore pebbles in his shoe. John
Schlesinger encouraged the actors to improvise, listened to tapes and
had screenwriter Waldo Salt incorporate bits of their improvisations into
the script. Filming scenes directly among the NYC crowds caused
Hoffman to improvise his "I'm walkin' here!" line when he was almost
hit by a taxi driver who was impatient by the added traffic and went
through a barrier that had been set up to slow down the traffic while
filming on the street. The original "x" rating was meant to imply adult
themes and materials, but was changed to an R rating two years after
its initial release without one frame of film being changed.
I find it ironic that in AFI's salute to the screenwriter a few years ago,
that "I'm walkin' here!" was considered one of their top lines of
dialogue when it was improvised by the actor.
One interesting thing to note in Midnight Cowboy is how New York City
is portrayed. The late 60's and much of the 70's NYC was not considered
a very habitable place to be. When it was sanitized in the 80's and after
9/11, it's almost heresy to say anything negative about the place, but not
so when this film was made. Consider this bit of dialogue: "Mam, I just
want to know, where is the Statue of Liberty?" "She's up in Central Park
takin' a dump."
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"Mam, I just want to know, where is the Statue of Liberty?" "She's up in Central Park
takin' a dump."
:D :D :D
Thank you Lyle - very interesting! And you're absolutely right about NYC not being thought of as being very habitable in the 70s. When I moved to San Francisco (in 1980) I could just as easily have moved to NYC (I had friends living there) but didn't really think twice about it.
Didn't want to be dancing on the street corners to orange juice jingles in freezing weather, I guess. ;)
Hoffman was a true revelation in the film after 'The Graduate' - I had forgotten that part.
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By the time I saw COWBOY the rating had become an R.
Good movie. Ratso and Joe are partly the Jack and Ennis of an earlier generation.
(Plus, the nominated two actors and supporting actress lost their Oscar bids. Hisssssssssssss...)
Mark
Didn't The Boys in the Band have a cowboy street hustler in it, a la Joe Buck?
The actors lost to a, ahem, real cowboy--Marion, I mean John Wayne.
That was a career award that year certainly. Of course, they were all
up against Peter O'Toole and Richard Burton as well. Sylvia lost to
Goldie Hawn.
I don't know the politics of the Oscars that year, but it does seem quite
odd (doesn't it?) that Midnight Cowboy would win the picture award.
Sandwiched in between Oliver! and Patton, MC seems off the charts in
terms of what the academy would've chosen as Best Picture. Anne of
the Thousand Days had the most nominations (10), but it only won one
of them. (There's an episode of the Dick Cavett show on dvd where
Rex Reed is giving his opinions on what will win the Oscars the next
evening and he thought Midnight Cowboy should win, but the academy
would never go for it. He thought Anne would win.) Of course, if you
believe the oscar traditions--Anne didn't have a film editing nomination!
By far the most popular film of the year was Butch Cassidy, another
friendship film between two cowboys... You woulda thought that would
win, but it was around for months and thought of as more of a lark, I guess,
not a heavy oscar boring film for the top prize. (And no editing nom!) Z was
a foreign entry and had no chance. Hello, Dolly! was panned, but ended up
with a best pic nom anyway. Sure would be interesting to know the votes.
Interestingly enough, the film with the second most nominations (with 9)
didn't even get a Best Picture nomination--They Shoot Horses Don't They?
(That DID get an editing nomination.) That film might have been released
too late for a best pic nom -- it was the last film released of the 1960's! If
it had, it might very well have won the Best Pic prize.
For those interested:
Anne of the Thousand Days -- 10 noms/1 win
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid -- 7 noms/4 wins
Hello, Dolly! -- 7 noms/3 wins
Midnight Cowboy -- 7 noms/3 wins
They Shoot Horses, Don't They? -- 9 noms/1win
Z -- 5 noms/2 wins
As in 2005, the awards were pretty evenly divided among the nominees.
-
By the way, the film (Midnight Cowboy) is based on a novel
by James Leo Herlihy. Anyone ever read it? I just read a brief
excerpt of it which includes:
In his new boots, Joe Buck was six-foot-one and life was different. As he
walked out of that store in Houston something snapped in the whole bottom
half of him: A kind of power he never even knew was there had been released
in his pelvis and he was able to feel the world through it. Brand-new muscles
came into play in his buttocks and in his legs, and he was aware of a totally
new attitude toward the sidewalk. The world was down there, and he was way
up here, on top of it, and the space between him and it was now commanded
by a beautiful strange animal, himself, Joe Buck. He was strong. He was
exultant. He was ready.
"I'm ready," he said to himself, and he wondered what he meant by that.
I also had to add, the academy did NOT nominate the wonderful
song "Everybody's Talkin' " that year, the music of which was also
used as much of the score throughout the film. They did nominate the
wonderful title tune of True Grit, though! LOL! The lyrics, I just noticed,
were written by Don Black, who did the lyrics of the Sunset Blvd. musical.
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I don't think it's a gay love story, either, or one bit romantic! And I said PARTLY Jack and Ennis. I was referring to two lost souls who found a connection with each other and who hardly had a connection with anyone else. Certainly not much with women. So back off, Michael and John. You two are so mean!!!! I feel like Barnard Hughes after being beaten with the telephone.
Funny that the director of MC was gay.
Actually I'm not being mean here - just analytical. But I could be mean if you would prefer. ;D
I'd rather you be mean in person, Michael. So I can get the full effect of the venom. :-* Save it for me, Mr. DeWitt.
Truly, I never did link BBM to MIDNIGHT COWBOY, ever. Never thought of MC when I saw BBM or in the years hence. How in hell did the topic even come up? I forget already. Anyway, on second thought I don't see much in common with the films or Joe and Ratso with Jack and Ennis. I guess the main comparison is that each film has two great performances by two brilliant, up-and-coming actors (though HL and JG were in their early-mid 20s and DH and JV were both over 30 when their movies were filmed).
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I was commenting on the article from the film festival.
I know, John--you could never be mean. :-* :-* :-* But I bet you could administer a mean spanking. ::)
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Didn't The Boys in the Band have a cowboy street hustler in it, a la Joe Buck?
Not really the same thing, imho. In 'Boys in the Band' the street hustler is a New Yorker made up as a cowboy, whereas in 'Midnight Cowboy' Joe Buck is actually fresh off the boat (range?) from the country. The 'cowboy' in 'Boys' is a trivial creature, he evokes laughter in Harold. In 'Midnight Cowboy' Joe is a tragic figure and does not evoke laughter in the gay clients.
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Folks, I tried to post this item at tds@davecullen.com.as instructed, but it didn't work. I hope you don't mind that I'm posting it this way instead.
"Gay-friendly" people unconsciously feel that two men kissing in public is morally wrong
(snip)
While walking through a park in Budapest a few weeks ago, I spied a very strange sight. In that fleeting moment between sensation and perception, when images settle on the retina but aren’t yet processed in a form fully accessible to conscious awareness, what I saw was a multicolored, gyrating mass of vaguely human substance, squirming and twisting on a park bench in animalistic fervor. My brain, unfortunately, was soon able to peel apart what I was actually observing, which was a particularly corpulent young woman devouring a young man half her size in what can only be described as a feast of open-mouthed, public lovemaking. The expression, “get a room,” seemed wholly inadequate for this carnal scene. “Get a porn studio” was more like it.
And that’s when the sad truth struck me: with the exception perhaps of just a handful of places in the world (and even those are questionable), gay couples are not free to participate in this most basic, mindless and normal exhibition of romantic behavior. In both the UK and the US, for example, I’ve got to first scout out who’s in our immediate vicinity before daring to even brush my pinky finger against Juan’s hand as we’re walking side-by-side.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=unconscious-disgust-gay-behavior&page=1
Thanks Jer for posting this. The writer's recommendation at the end is encouraging.
Thnaks to TDS too for the photo of pamukkale in Turkey. (BTW, Pamukkkale means Cotton Castle). I remmber taking a dip in one of the pools there in January 1975. The ground was covered with snow, but the water is hot.
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Go on guys, hold hands in public! The right to be accepted as completely normal is yours. Seize the day!
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Right on, Janjo! Speaking of which:
Same-sex hand holding (Sshh): Our silent revolution
(snip)
You don't have to fight to change the world. Promote love and equality by the simple act of holding hands.
http://www.adayinhand.com/
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Yes !
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Good movie. Ratso and Joe are partly the Jack and Ennis of an earlier generation.
Ewwwww. I don't think that at all. I saw it when I was a teen (at the theater) and was overwhelmed by the homophobia of the film - Ratso always calling people 'fag' and Joe beating a man with a telephone after a trick.
It was a decent story about men on the down and out who loved each other as friends and supported each other (even after Ratso ripped off Joe). But a romantic love story? Hardly.
I don't think it's a gay love story, either, or one bit romantic! And I said PARTLY Jack and Ennis. I was referring to two lost souls who found a connection with each other and who hardly had a connection with anyone else. Certainly not much with women. So back off, Michael and John. You two are so mean!!!! I feel like Barnard Hughes after being beaten with the telephone.
Funny that the director of MC was gay.
i am going to chime in with CD. i never thought it a love story, but a story of internalized homophobia, a phenomenon i am all too familiar with, and in that respect it might be considered a precursor to BBM. the violence exhibited actually is a significant indicator of the internal conflict, imho, more than the bromantic caretaking that said little about the nature of the relationship.
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Who the hell is CD? And for the last time, I don't think MC is a gay love story! But there are a few things in it that make me think of BBM. I don't think the two movies are very much alike at all.
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Great articles on Stonewall! For anyone who would like to discuss them we'd love to see you over in the Gay History thread:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=20158.0
And for those who would like to discuss Matthew Shepard and the impact of Gay Bashing the thread is here:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=6854.0
We'd love to see you!
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Oh and a quick correction. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression that Satan was a fallen angel in the Old Testament. He was an angel in the court of God in Job who fulfilled the task of being the adversary - not (in any way) an opponent of God or a demon.
http://www.realdevil.info/5-4-2.htm
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Enjoyed the Stonewall articles in TDS!
I liked seeing the Brokeback Moutaineers team name as well, but
the name that made me laugh out loud was the team called No Regretzkys!
Also the pic of Sidney--lol!
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Kudos to you for 3 odd & beautiful places on Earth I'd never heard of! Fun!
Also, thank you for the Stonewall anniv articles!
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The article about Harold Koh is entitled "Gay-Friendly Obama Appointment Confirmed." Is he straight, or just not saying one way or the other? The article isn't clear on that.
Regarding the site where you can make a cartoon of a photo, there's also a site where you can make a manga version of yourself and it doesn't require uploading a photo. http://www.faceyourmanga.com . I tried it and the result was not far off, although my hair hasn't looked exactly like this since 1985. ;D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg54%2FChapeaugris%2Fkim.jpg&hash=89d4957d68a0f884b317ea99971dbd53701f868d)
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Gay Bob is for sale, under eBay's "Weird Stuff/Totally Bizarre" listings.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davecullen.com%2Fforum%2FSmileys%2Fdefault%2Fundecided.gif&hash=0abcc309ae7d19dd801dfc20cc59715f8e9c6a35)
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This week’s Question: In our solar system most of the planets' moons are named after mythological characters. Which planet has a different criteria for the naming of its moons? What is the source of those names?
Uranus.
The moons are named after characters from the works of William Shakespeare and Alexander Pope.
Shakespeare's Moons
http://www.bobthealien.co.uk/uranusmoons.htm (http://www.bobthealien.co.uk/uranusmoons.htm)
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MyWebFace ???
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2F465150.jpg&hash=c186df750f651ce4666a2fee78571ca6069e9281)
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Gay Bob is for sale, under eBay's "Weird Stuff/Totally Bizarre" listings.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davecullen.com%2Fforum%2FSmileys%2Fdefault%2Fundecided.gif&hash=0abcc309ae7d19dd801dfc20cc59715f8e9c6a35)
I understand the reaction, but actually the listing itself is a tad bit strange. >:D
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An update, and apology, about Tuesday's TDS:
Today is Canada Day, and I'd neglected to put in an item about it. I updated that this morning, including a link to a site with background and events.
Happy Canada Day to our Canadian forum members! :)
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This week’s Question: In our solar system most of the planets' moons are named after mythological characters. Which planet has a different criteria for the naming of its moons? What is the source of those names?
Uranus.
The moons are named after characters from the works of William Shakespeare and Alexander Pope.
Shakespeare's Moons
http://www.bobthealien.co.uk/uranusmoons.htm (http://www.bobthealien.co.uk/uranusmoons.htm)
How long before URANUS gets on the photo captioning thread, I wonder? ::)
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Regarding Happy Canada Day, there's a nice column in today's NY TImes:
Our True North: 11 Canadians living in the United States share what they miss most about home. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/opinion/01canadaday.html)
Here's a sample, from Tim Long, a writer for The Simpsons.
When I was a child, it wasn’t unusual for my 15-minute walk home from school to begin under clear skies and end in a blizzard. I remember once, when I was 8 years old, stumbling into my house, my hair covered in powder and my eyelashes frozen together, and screaming, “Why do we live here?!” My mother took my face in her warm hands and said, “Because it’s where people love you.”
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Marge and Lydia,
Thank you for your posts and inputs re Canada Day!
John
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We almost let it slide by, John, but Marcia saved the day!
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Regarding the site where you can make a cartoon of a photo, there's also a site where you can make a manga version of yourself and it doesn't require uploading a photo. http://www.faceyourmanga.com . I tried it and the result was not far off, although my hair hasn't looked exactly like this since 1985. ;D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg54%2FChapeaugris%2Fkim.jpg&hash=89d4957d68a0f884b317ea99971dbd53701f868d)
LOL!
You're right, the results are not far off.
Here is my avatar pic:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg116%2FCellarDweller115%2Favatars%2FNYCTripOct065.jpg&hash=75f9d0a41188471f1e06c34b23bd3cc987c8f95d)
and here is my "manga me".
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi54.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg116%2FCellarDweller115%2Favatars%2Fcellardweller115yahoo_com_599358f0.jpg&hash=669beb6d641deb47595fc7213f8138ed68667c4b)
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MyWebFace ???
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2F465150.jpg&hash=c186df750f651ce4666a2fee78571ca6069e9281)
LOL - More like the Thing that grabs hold of ya! :D
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^^^ LOL... :D :D it's not even the hat, or the purple shades... it's the frickin EYES!
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Happy 4th of July everyone!
I'm delighted to see India shining proudly on today's TDS. It means an awful lot to me, being the only Indian member of the forum and maybe the only Indian in India to be such a committed Brokie. This will be a very precious edition of TDS for me and I'll save it carefully.
I, like many others in India and outside, had expressed misgivings regarding the countrywide applicability of the new ruling that says we're legal. Here are some further inputs that indicate how and why it has to be applicable countrywide. Good news.
http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2009/07/update-indias-decriminalization-of.html
Hugs everyone
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Proud of India - and happy for you, Maya!
Great report and links.
;)
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Thanks Ingy - I'm so happy I demolished a large slab of chocolate ;D
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Thanks Ingy - I'm so happy I demolished a large slab of chocolate ;D
;D
That's an excellent way of celebrating!!!
CONGRATS to you and all India, Maya!!!!!!!!!!
:-* :-* :-*
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This week’s Question: In our solar system most of the planets' moons are named after mythological characters. Which planet has a different criteria for the naming of its moons? What is the source of those names?
Uranus.
The moons are named after characters from the works of William Shakespeare and Alexander Pope.
Shakespeare's Moons
http://www.bobthealien.co.uk/uranusmoons.htm (http://www.bobthealien.co.uk/uranusmoons.htm)
I guess you all know that 'Uranians' is one term which has been used for gay people, or something similar - perhaps not exactly the way we use the word gay these days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranian
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^^^ LOL... :D :D it's not even the hat, or the purple shades... it's the frickin EYES!
Hey Jimmy...let us know how the memorial goes at the Staples Center, okay?
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I guess you all know that 'Uranians' is one term which has been used for gay people, or something similar - perhaps not exactly the way we use the word gay these days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranian
Time for a new John Gray book - "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, Gay People are from Uranus"?
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Happy 4th of July everyone!
I'm delighted to see India shining proudly on today's TDS.
Yes, Maya, while I was reading that article I was thinking
how "lovely" and "amazing" and how fortunate we are to
have your voice on the forum! Thank you!
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I guess you all know that 'Uranians' is one term which has been used for gay people, or something similar - perhaps not exactly the way we use the word gay these days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranian
Time for a new John Gray book - "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, Gay People are from Uranus"?
:D :D :D
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Enjoyed the design in today’s TDS! The red white and blue masthead
and the "Patriotic Stars & Cartwheels" quilt with a link to some other
interesting quilts! My mom used to make quilts and I’ve always looked
upon them as artwork, not something functional.
Also, check out today’s "Google" design, which I thought was appropriately lovely:
http://www.google.com/logos/july4th09.gif
(Do they have a Gif Gallery of their unique headers?)
Academy Invites 134 to Membership
Among the 134 are names you will recognize from Brokeback Mountain and Milk:
Actors
James Franco – Milk, Spider-Man
Anne Hathaway – Rachel Getting Married, The Princess Diaries
Emile Hirsch – Into the Wild, Lords of Dogtown
Michelle Williams – Wendy and Lucy, Brokeback Mountain
I always wondered why Michelle wasn’t invited when she was
nominated for BBM. Was also nice to see Dustin Lance Black’s name on the list.
It can only help!
'"He was striving to become an 'illusionist' as he called it – able
to create characters that weren't there."'
I loved that idea Heath had about his work…to be an illusionist…
Pohlad Sticks to His Strategy of Making Movies He'd Like to See.
Nice to know there’s some filmmakers who aspire to something more than
"ogling the girl and watching things blow up"…
Sarah Brown to March at Pride London
"…if I were a bell I’d go ding dong ding dong ding…"
Lesbian Albatrosses and Bisexual Bonobos Have Last Laugh
I happened to read an opinion article about this subject which I will recommend:
Confirmed: God is slightly gay
Just ask the animals. As soon as they stop having all that homosexual sex
by Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
Wednesday, July 1, 2009
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/07/01/notes070109.DTL
Why Can’t You Just Butch Up?
"Clearly, a lot of people have a problem with guys who don’t act
traditionally masculine – in other words, with guys who are effeminate.
And you know who you are…lol!
If you were traditionally masculine, wouldn’t you be straight?
A Place Where They're Always Glad You Came...
There's a new café and bar in Bogotá with an old familiar name!
And a copyright infringement lawsuit on the way…lol!
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Enjoyed the design in today’s TDS! The red white and blue masthead
and the "Patriotic Stars & Cartwheels" quilt with a link to some other
interesting quilts!
Like this one:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fquiltgallery.net%2Fstore%2Fimages%2FKits%2FQG%2FCowgirl_Roundup.jpg&hash=55c1c3f89571fa44ee4b74e28f0ddbc381f046fd)
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I guess you all know that 'Uranians' is one term which has been used for gay people, or something similar - perhaps not exactly the way we use the word gay these days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranian
Time for a new John Gray book - "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, Gay People are from Uranus"?
Excellent!!!!! ;D ;D ;D you should write it :D :-*
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Yes, Maya, while I was reading that article I was thinking
how "lovely" and "amazing" and how fortunate we are to
have your voice on the forum! Thank you!
This means a lot to me :) Thank you.
I am fortunate to be here.
That's an excellent way of celebrating!!!
CONGRATS to you and all India, Maya!!!!!!!!!!
:-* :-* :-*
Thanks Sonja :-*
btw had some more!
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Enjoyed the design in today’s TDS! The red white and blue masthead
and the "Patriotic Stars & Cartwheels" quilt with a link to some other
interesting quilts! My mom used to make quilts and I’ve always looked
upon them as artwork, not something functional.
Yes the quilts are beautiful and they are definitely artwork. Do you have any made by your mom?
"Lesbian Albatrosses and Bisexual Bonobos Have Last Laugh
I happened to read an opinion article about this subject which I will recommend:
Confirmed: God is slightly gay
Just ask the animals. As soon as they stop having all that homosexual sex
by Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
Wednesday, July 1, 2009
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2009/07/01/notes070109.DTL
This is an absolutely delightful piece of writing. Not to be missed.
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I do not understand how the article "Why Can’t You Just Butch Up?" made it to TDS. I thought this topic of discussion was prohibited here at DCF back in October 2007 when the thread "Masculine & gay--mutually exclusive?" was shut down for the following reasons:
A reminder: The ''masculinity thread'' was closed precisely to end the argument that had come to a dead end many months ago, with no one convinced that they should convert to the opinion held by anyone else. No new point had been raised for a very long time. No one has any sort of universal Truth that everyone should convert to. Humans do not create universal Truths. One or more people were so incensed that their own opinion was not recognised as incontrovertible fact that they were sarcastically insulting others. It was time for that particular line of argument to cease. It still is that time. It will not be reintroduced to poison any other thread, nor to continue to generate bitterness and anger. I believe that the entire forum staff from Dave on through is in agreement about this, having gone on record in our discussions of it. Please desist from restarting this line of argument.
and
~ basically, the thread had pros and cons:
Pro: some interesting debate
Con: it frequently got extremely heated and divisive and often offensive and destructive in a lot of different ways.
after a year and a half, it was mostly repetition. the pro side of the equation had diminished to very little. the con side was ever higher. so it did not seem wise to keep it.
we have been discussing that situation for a very long time--god, at least a year. (we being mods, other administrators, and countless members who have weighed in for and agaisnt closing it.) for most of that time, meli and i were for keeping it, because our philosophy is generally to ere on the side of keeping discussion and accepting the pain. but as the pros got smaller and the cons bigger, and the discussion had been given more and more time to play itself out, we decided enough was enough.
i think we need to make space for all sorts of discussions, even ones that can get ugly. but discussing them forever i don't necessarily agree with. a year and a half is a long time for a discussion. i think this one had run its course, and the downside was far greater than the up.
Does this article's appearance on TDS mean that the topic is now allowed to be discussed??
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No, Milo. Sorry. We just made a mistake and forgot how inflammatory this topic was. The topic is still NOT to be discussed on this Forum.
My apologies.
- Lydia
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No, Milo. Sorry. We just made a mistake and forgot how inflammatory this topic was. The topic is still NOT to be discussed on this Forum.
My apologies.
- Lydia
OK.
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Very glad to see Reiko's picture of the little green frog in the flower made it to TDS! :)
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Very glad to see Reiko's picture of the little green frog in the flower made it to TDS! :)
That picture is exquisite and it's amazing the way she's captured such a rare sight. The frog is like a gem.
Ingy must be overjoyed. ;)
This time's TDS is one of the most enjoyable ever. I'll go back and savor it in detail now.
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^^^ LOL... :D :D it's not even the hat, or the purple shades... it's the frickin EYES!
Hey Jimmy...let us know how the memorial goes at the Staples Center, okay?
what memorial?
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Very glad to see Reiko's picture of the little green frog in the flower made it to TDS! :)
Likewise!
;)
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That picture is exquisite and it's amazing the way she's captured such a rare sight. The frog is like a gem.
Ingy must be overjoyed. ;)
He certainly is!
And has entered the gem into his collection of precious froggies.
;)
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Do you have any made by your mom?
I don't have any pictures, but I do have a couple!
One I wore out but I still keep it.
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Two continents which have not had major military conflicts:
1. Antarctica
2. Australia - but only if you discount guerilla actions by Aboriginal bands, such as the one led by Pemulwuy in the early years of the setllement of New South Wales; expeditions by groups of squatters to eliminate Aborigines from their sheep and cattle runs and the various punitive expeditions by troopers, Native Police and regular police on the pastoral frontier well into the 20th century. Indigenous societies, being small-scale societies, did not have the political organization to mount major military resistance to colonization, so gueriila actions were correspondingly small-scale campaigns..
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Quote of the Day
“Words were invented by people to describe what they perceive to be "true"
from what amounts to an ant's roadside view of passing cosmic traffic."
~ ~ Frank Schaeffer ~ ~
This reminded me of a Lily Tomlin line:
"Human beings learned to talk because of their deep inner need to complain."
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A gracious good afternoon! Is this the party to whom I am speaking? Honk honk!
-
Corners of History
I enjoyed the Corners of History TDS article today. Any time there's
a "list" I like to know the criteria for making the list, but this "11 Corners
of LGBT History" didn't seem to have one, other than the author thought
it was interesting.
I enjoyed exploring the links and finding other interesting GLBT related
things and noticed that there are some obvious ones that are missing,
such as West hollywood's Matthew Shepherd Triangle and "hunger strike"
remembrance.
I did not know a lesbian wrote America the Beautiful! Just the other night I
was watching a PBS show where I learned that a Chicago resident who wrote
the very famous standard "Pretty Baby", wrote it about his boyfriend! (When
Broadway producer's bought and used it in a Broadway show they actually
sang it about a "baby".)
In the Queerest Places link there was a post about D.C.'s Lafayette Park
which had this item about a statue of Baron von Steuben located there:
<< In 1777, Baron Frederick Wilhelm von Steuben, then a captain in the
Prussian Army, faced charges of taking “familiarities” with young men, and, to
avoid a public scandal, he accepted a commission with the Continental Army,
arriving in the American colonies with a 17-year-old French nobleman whom
he called his “secretary.” Von Steuben, who was well-acquainted with the
rigorous drills of the Prussian Army, is credited with introducing much-needed
discipline into the revolutionary forces and thus aiding immeasurably in the
eventual American victory over the British. The baron is honored by a
monument in Lafayette Park, at the base of which is a statue of two warriors
in an appropriately gay friendly position. >>
The Queerest Places site says: "For my purposes, I define a 'historic site' as
any house, structure, or geographic location with an association to an historic
queer person or event."
What I did not see mentioned in EITHER link about GLBT historical places is
that just north of the town I grew up in, Remsen, New York, is the Baron von
Steuben Memorial Park where there is a monument, log cabin with historical
memorabilia and a huge park grounds. (The information that I always heard is
that while they were building a road on Star Hill around there that his body was
discovered and subsequently the park came into being.) I first knew that Baron
Von Steuben was gay from reading Randy Shilts' book Conduct Unbecoming.
To think that this park which I frequented for twenty years while growing up in
Remsen was in honor of a gay man is truly fascinating and I think knowing that
fact would have made at least one moment of my life growing up there just a
little bit easier.
I forwarded this information to the site links you provided, for what it's worth...
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Two continents which have not had major military conflicts:
1. Antarctica
2. Australia - but only if you discount guerilla actions by Aboriginal bands, such as the one led by Pemulwuy in the early years of the setllement of New South Wales; expeditions by groups of squatters to eliminate Aborigines from their sheep and cattle runs and the various punitive expeditions by troopers, Native Police and regular police on the pastoral frontier well into the 20th century. Indigenous societies, being small-scale societies, did not have the political organization to mount major military resistance to colonization, so gueriila actions were correspondingly small-scale campaigns..
However both the towns of Broome and Darwin were bombed by the Japanese in WWII and there were a number of sea battles in Australian waters.
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No, Milo. Sorry. We just made a mistake and forgot how inflammatory this topic was. The topic is still NOT to be discussed on this Forum.
My apologies.
- Lydia
Footnote: saw an interesting documentary at the SF Gay and Lesbian film fest called "The Butch Factor," about masculinity in the gay community. Not only does it interview gay rodeo-ers, gay prison guards, gay rugby and softball players, a gay electrician, etc., they also interview a transman, a gay little person, one of the "cock warriors" from Portland, several effeminate guys who couldn't "pass" for straight in their younger years and thus came out much sooner, etc. If folks want to pursue the topic on their own, I really recommend this film--it definitely opened my eyes to a whole bunch of issues and subtleties I'd not thought about.
-
<< In 1777, Baron Frederick Wilhelm von Steuben, then a captain in the
Prussian Army, faced charges of taking “familiarities” with young men, and, to
avoid a public scandal, he accepted a commission with the Continental Army,
arriving in the American colonies with a 17-year-old French nobleman whom
he called his “secretary.” Von Steuben, who was well-acquainted with the
rigorous drills of the Prussian Army, is credited with introducing much-needed
discipline into the revolutionary forces and thus aiding immeasurably in the
eventual American victory over the British. The baron is honored by a
monument in Lafayette Park, at the base of which is a statue of two warriors
in an appropriately gay friendly position. >>
~
What I did not see mentioned in EITHER link about GLBT historical places is
that just north of the town I grew up in, Remsen, New York, is the Baron von
Steuben Memorial Park where there is a monument, log cabin with historical
memorabilia and a huge park grounds. (The information that I always heard is
that while they were building a road on Star Hill around there that his body was
discovered and subsequently the park came into being.) I first knew that Baron
Von Steuben was gay from reading Randy Shilts' book Conduct Unbecoming.
To think that this park which I frequented for twenty years while growing up in
Remsen was in honor of a gay man is truly fascinating and I think knowing that
fact would have made at least one moment of my life growing up there just a
little bit easier.
Thanks for the tips -- I'm planning to do features about historic sites throughout July, and of course that's always a relevant topic for stories.
And while I'm here -- I'd appreciate tips on sites outside the US as well.
-
No, Milo. Sorry. We just made a mistake and forgot how inflammatory this topic was. The topic is still NOT to be discussed on this Forum.
My apologies.
- Lydia
Footnote: saw an interesting documentary at the SF Gay and Lesbian film fest called "The Butch Factor," about masculinity in the gay community. Not only does it interview gay rodeo-ers, gay prison guards, gay rugby and softball players, a gay electrician, etc., they also interview a transman, a gay little person, one of the "cock warriors" from Portland, several effeminate guys who couldn't "pass" for straight in their younger years and thus came out much sooner, etc. If folks want to pursue the topic on their own, I really recommend this film--it definitely opened my eyes to a whole bunch of issues and subtleties I'd not thought about.
I had no idea this topic had been banned, too busy arguing whether Jack quit Ennis, I suppose.................... But what this forum has done for me, is to prove to me just how varied gay men are. The effeminate stereotype is so prevalent in the media, and turns out to not really be typical at all, and only a small part of a much larger, much more diverse picture.
I'm sure I knew that before seeing Brokeback, but certainly not to the extent I understand it now.
-
Two continents which have not had major military conflicts:
1. Antarctica
2. Australia - but only if you discount guerilla actions by Aboriginal bands, such as the one led by Pemulwuy in the early years of the setllement of New South Wales; expeditions by groups of squatters to eliminate Aborigines from their sheep and cattle runs and the various punitive expeditions by troopers, Native Police and regular police on the pastoral frontier well into the 20th century. Indigenous societies, being small-scale societies, did not have the political organization to mount major military resistance to colonization, so gueriila actions were correspondingly small-scale campaigns..
However both the towns of Broome and Darwin were bombed by the Japanese in WWII and there were a number of sea battles in Australian waters.
Brian, I remembered these facts after I sent my post, and the Battle of the Coral Sea (off the northeast coast) and the capture of the Japanese mini--submarines in Sydney Harbour during WWII. The extent and severity of the air-raids on Broome and Darwin were kept secret until many years after the war. I visited the bunkers in Darwin in the early 1970s.
We visited the remote historic Cape Otway Lighthouse in Victoria last summer and learnt how an American ship had been blown up by the Germans in Bass Strait. The incident led to the placing of a secret radar station operated by the RAAF at the lighthouse. Some remnants of the little station are still there now that the lighthouse has been overtaken by technological change.
In Victoria there are a number of sites where forts were built and cannons mounted during the 19th century to defend the colony against anticipated attacks by the Imperial Russian Navy.
I was thinking of the fact that there have been no major wars fought on land on the Australian continent comparable with the history of wars fought in Asia, Eurpoe, Africa and the Americas, no sustained foreign invasions after British colonization and no civil wars, and the very short-lived but significant rebellions of Castle Hill and the Eureka Stockade. Which is not to say there hasn't been a good deal of paranoia in modern Austrlaian history, with fears of the "Yellow Hordes" resulting in the White Australia Policy being in force from 1900 to the 1960s and the relevant legislation not being finally abolished until 1972 or 1973 if memory serves. During the Cold war, conservative political parties played successfully on fears of communist invasion to remain in power for decades. Over the last two decades or so and again over the last few months, politicians and media shock-jocks have whipped up irrational fear of boat people, the few thousand people who have been arriving without visas in rickety boats on our northern and northwestern coasts despite the fact that over 90% of these asylum seekers turn out to be genuine refugees according to the tough UN definitions and have eventually and too foten very belatedly been granted permanent residence.
It seems to me that irrational, (as opposed to realistic), fear of invasion is promoted by people who are often also homophobic, racist and misogynistic.
-
well I did try to order one of those condom pillows in case it ever came in useful >:D
-
Sorry I cannot help it. Why travel Qantas to New Zealand? Air New Zealand also flies to most US cities mentioned.
This from an Aussie who never flies Qantas and would prefer to be a Kiwi (perhaps soon)
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Sorry I cannot help it. Why travel Qantas to New Zealand? Air New Zealand also flies to most US cities mentioned.
This from an Aussie who never flies Qantas and would prefer to be a Kiwi (perhaps soon)
If you'll PM or email me a link and some info, I'll do a follow-up. And let us know about your upcoming Kiwi 'conversion'! :)
-
Congrats to all for this week's excellent TDS! The Willie Nelson stories and the homophobia in country music were especially good.
Thanks!
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About the Willie Nelson unreleased recordings on Lost Highway: I don't get how Nelson could have recorded "Cowboys Are Frequently, Secretly Fond Of Each Other" AND "Ain't Going Down On Brokeback Mountain", which includes lyrics like "That shit ain't right".
Is Willie against us or for us?
Maybe I'm missing something, but that clip of the Saddle Sores' performance...it looked like that audience and the singers onstage were mighty uncomfortable with the topic. Nervous giggling from both. Seems like they were agreeing with the sentiments of "That shit ain't right."
Seems to me that song ain't right.
-
Speaking of Oscar Wilde, Michael Flanagan wrote a short essay a couple of years ago for the Oscar Night event in Bay City.
I wanted something to print in the program I made for the screening that night. I had a vague idea of what I wanted, but it just wasn't coming together for me.
I PM'd Michael and asked if he would write something. He knew what I was looking for immediately, I didn't have to explain anything.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbaycityforums.com%2Fimages%2FOscarNight.jpg&hash=c120a27f9505bbde70adf1406f634b043e575b92)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yet each man kills the things he loves
By each let this be heard
Some do it with a bitter look
Some with a flattering word
The coward does it with a kiss
The brave man with a sword
Some kill their love when they are young
And some when they are old
Some strangle with the hands of Lust
Some with the hands of Gold
The kindest use a knife, because
The dead so soon grow cold
When Oscar Wilde wrote ‘The Ballad of Reading Gaol’ while imprisoned in Reading Prison for gross indecency in 1897 he could easily have been describing the world of Ennis Del Mar in ‘Brokeback Mountain’. Who hasn’t found themselves looking back at a world that could have been, only to say those saddest of words ‘if only’?
Oscar himself would become the posthumous victim of Lord Alfred Douglas (affectionately known to Wilde as ‘Boise'). Douglas would call Wilde "the greatest force for evil that has appeared in Europe during the last three hundred and fifty years." Unlike Ennis Del Mar’s feelings toward Jack Twist, Douglas would later say that he intensely regretted having met Wilde.
Had Wilde been prescient he probably would have regretted ever having met Douglas. Wilde (with Douglas’ encouragement) brought suit for libel against Douglas’ father who had called him a sodomite. In court Wilde denied that there was any substance to the allegations - and found himself on trial when several young men were brought to the stand to testify otherwise.
Have we come very far from the world Oscar lived in? In 2006 we found the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences wanted to disassociate themselves from the powerful indictment of homophobia that existed in ‘Brokeback Mountain’ - choosing instead to celebrate ‘Crash’ as the best picture of the year - a film which posits that everyone is racist. So instead of celebrating a film which argues for compassion we found the Academy casting its vote with those who would say that bigotry is part of the human condition. This snub came after a season of vile commentary - from reviewers like Gene Shalit, who called the character of Jack Twist a rapist; from Jack Cafferty on CNN who said ‘there aren't too many closet doors that are left closed in this country’ and from Tony Curtis who told Fox News that he hadn’t see it and that John Wayne wouldn’t like it. Surely these views on homosexuality fit right in to the 19th century world of Oscar Wilde.
We find ourselves in 2007 living in a world where a film about homosexuality has never won a ‘best picture’ award. Of course this has been true for a while, ‘The Color Purple’ lost out to ‘Out of Africa’ in 1986 and ‘Four Weddings and a Funeral’ lost to ‘Forrest Gump’ in 1995. And yet a film about a transvestite serial killer has won (‘Silence of the Lambs’ in 1992) and a film about a schizophrenic man whose homosexual encounters have been conveniently excised from his story has won (‘A Beautiful Mind’ in 2002). Actors and actresses have won for gay roles, of course - Tom Hanks for ‘Philadelphia’ and Philip Seymour Hoffman for ‘Capote’. So to take a broad view the Academy appears to be telling us that if you want to be successful in a gay film you should be dead or obvious - but don’t scare the horses by appearing to be an everyday person, please. Clearly these are views that would make perfect sense to Oscar - thinking like this made him deny his own homosexuality in court.
Gay people and their friends have been fans of the Academy Awards for a long time. It just appears that the feeling isn’t reciprocated. So perhaps it is time for us to kill the thing we loved and move on. We don’t need their Oscar - we have our own. And in his ‘De Profundis’ he says:
“. . . Suffering is one very long moment. We cannot divide it by seasons. We can only record its moods, and chronicle their return. With us time itself does not progress. It revolves. It seems to circle round one centre of pain.”
Can there be any question that he would understand the world of Ennis Del Mar?
Michael Flanagan, San Francisco
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Great piece, Michael. Thanks John, for posting it.
Mark
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FYI, Glenn McCoy, the cartoonist who did the Brokeback penguin cartoon, is NOT a gay friend/ally, and is as right-wing as they come. That cartoon seems funny and cute on the surface, but he's actually probably trying to insult the author of "And Tango Makes Three" as well as BBM.
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About the Willie Nelson unreleased recordings on Lost Highway: I don't get how Nelson could have recorded "Cowboys Are Frequently, Secretly Fond Of Each Other" AND "Ain't Going Down On Brokeback Mountain", which includes lyrics like "That shit ain't right".
Is Willie against us or for us?
Maybe I'm missing something, but that clip of the Saddle Sores' performance...it looked like that audience and the singers onstage were mighty uncomfortable with the topic. Nervous giggling from both. Seems like they were agreeing with the sentiments of "That shit ain't right."
Seems to me that song ain't right.
I've been puzzled about Willie, too. It was mentioned in the link that WIllie is
one country artist who has reached out to gay audiences and I'm assuming
that was written as a positive thing. Although the sentiments of the first song
are cutesy on the surface, it turned me off the very first time I heard it because
it perpetuates the stereotypes of gay men really just want to be women and
dress up in women's clothes.
And I agree about this other song. It really sounds very homophobic. The fact
that southern audiences are turning this into a hit reeks of homophobia in my
opinion. I think the song "ain't right" as well.
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Great piece, Michael. Thanks John, for posting it.
Mark
Agree.
FYI, Glenn McCoy, the cartoonist who did the Brokeback penguin cartoon, is NOT a gay friend/ally, and is as right-wing as they come. That cartoon seems funny and cute on the surface, but he's actually probably trying to insult the author of "And Tango Makes Three" as well as BBM.
Thanks for pointing this out, it's always good to know these things. If he "was"
intending to insult, I like the fact he didn't do a very good job! I like the fact that
I could take something that might have been meant as insulting and not think
of it that way. Think of it in a positive light. I believe I heard the idea that "If
you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change."
Your information has brought up the very real BBM joke tidal wave that hit
while the film was in release and why a lot of gay people were on a sliding
scale of how they felt about it. A lot of people enjoyed the humor because
they thought of it as a sort of celebration of the film and others thought it was
just a homophobic reaction and making fun of it. I suspect that middle ground
was more likely at work. And like this cartoon suggests, opposite intentions
and reactions were also in play.
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I always thought it was common knowledge that Brandon de Wilde
was gay, and although I found a couple sites where he's on a "list"
as a gay or bisexual actor, I didn't find any other written facts about that.
Hud is, in my opinion, his best film. Takes place the same year as
BBM and you can feel BBM taking place while watching it. You can
almost see Jack Twist driving around the roads by the ranch. I
could see Brandon and Newman playing Jack and Ennis as well.
Brandon certainly would have been right for the first hour, he was
20 when Hud was made, the aging scenes mat bot have worked
as well for him. But see HUD if you have not. The actors are all at
their finest, Wilde and Newman, and Patricia Neal (as Alma!) and
Melvyn Douglas actually won oscars for their roles! As did the
cinematography.
I've always wondered why Hud was not nominated for Best Picture.
It was nominated for everything else, acting (3), writing, directing and
a couple others. It is certainly a film that people still remember, still
like and admire and still talk about. America, America was a nominee
that year and most people haven't even heard of it!
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For some unknown reason I remember when Brandon de Wilde died. I was only 13 but I remember thinking how sad it was, not the least because he was only 30. He was performing in the play BUTTERFLIES ARE FREE at the time of his death, in one of the national touring companies. I bet he was great in the role of the blind man trying to make a go of it without his overprotective mom. Ironically Brandon was killed the same day that the movie version (with Edward Albert in the male lead) was released.
I have never seen anything about Brandon being gay or bi. Source(s), Lyle?
Mark
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I'm not sure I've ever seen confirmation of DeWilde's sexuality, either--he seemed more of a gay icon just because he played "sensitive" young men, and died tragically while his youthful beauty was at its peak, similar to River Phoenix. (Also to Heath, of course, who actually played a famous gay part, and James Dean, who was gay/bi in his private life.)
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Mark, I didn't keep the links to those two sites that listed
Brandon as gay or bisexual because there wasn't any other
info than that. If I come across them again I'll link you.
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"To think that this park which I frequented for twenty years while
growing up in Remsen was in honor of a gay man is truly fascinating
and I think knowing that fact would have made at least one moment
of my life growing up there just a little bit easier.”
Thanks for the Steuben article and photos. That site
brought back some memories of the beautiful scenery
that I enjoyed while growing up (and took for granted).
Since the "traveler" page invited comments, I decided to
write the following little comment to post there:
I grew up in Remsen and visited this park so many times and
I agree with you about the visual splendor that is often overlooked
when you routinely see it. Winter and fall hold even more beautiful
sights up on Starr Hill.
Did you know that General Steuben was gay? I mention that because
I am, too, and if I had known that little fact growing up and living in that
area for 25 years, I would've had at least one better moment in my life.
So I mention it that someone else might have a better moment, too.
Even if you were not aware of this fact, what everyone has said above
still holds true and thanks for writing about your visit.
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I think the town was originally spelled RIMS-IN. ;D
Mark
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About the Gay Husband article:
"Many times, both husband and wife have had few other
sexual partners before marriage, are religious, and/or young
when married. For both Louise and Susan, all three were true.
Louise's priest gave her simple advice. "Your husband can't be
gay, and you can't get divorced."
Ahh--leave it to religion.
Making the world a better, more understanding, more enlightened place.
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I just watched the tribute video on utube. Damn, that hurt. Does anyone know about who, what, why etc?
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Hi Andy - foreverinawe (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7852) posted his introduction and video in Film vs Book (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=11908.msg1634571#msg1634571).
I think it's a fantastic choice of song, video and images, along with a wonderful narrator's voice.
Welcome to the forum, foreverinawe! Thanks so much for sharing your inspiration with us. And thank you, TDS, for choosing it as Post of the Day.
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About the Gay Husband article:
Ahh--leave it to religion.
Making the world a better, more understanding, more enlightened place.
Speaking of religion, here's a link to an article on why ex-gay therapy conducted by evangelical religious orgnizations doesn't work. The author is a gay Baptist pastor who has had experienc eof it.
http://www.othersheepexecsite.com/Why_ex-gay_therapy_does_not_work_Gay_and_Lesbian_Review_Parelli.html (http://www.othersheepexecsite.com/Why_ex-gay_therapy_does_not_work_Gay_and_Lesbian_Review_Parelli.html)
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Hi Andy - foreverinawe (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=7852) posted his introduction and video in Film vs Book (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=11908.msg1634571#msg1634571).
I think it's a fantastic choice of song, video and images, along with a wonderful narrator's voice.
Welcome to the forum, foreverinawe! Thanks so much for sharing your inspiration with us. And thank you, TDS, for choosing it as Post of the Day.
I second that, the voice especially, that has really reminded me of how I felt for a long time. Others will indeed feel this (or be numb, I suppose) for the rest of their lives. That's a sobering thought.
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Re: the ever present battle of slow forum speed and too many messages in mailboxes
Is there no way to limit the space alloted to each member and have oldest messages automatically deleted when the limit is reached? Email accounts do it.
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I've often thought the same, doodler. I also realised that I had over 20 pages of outgoing messages stored, but quickly deleted them.
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Hi Andy, I correspond with a couple forum members but usually do it via email. With as slow as the forum is NORMALLY, regular email is a lot faster!
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How amazing! Australia and most of the US left behind by Albania!
Albania used to have a Muslim majority, but there were large minorities of Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania) (http://(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albania)) says now nearly 55% of Albanians are atheist and nearly 16% agnostic. Religion was banned by the former Communist regime after World War II. The combined percentage of various Christian minorities is actually higher than that of Muslim minorities. If the statistics quoted by wiki are correct, it seems there isn't the return to religion seen in other post-commuist countries like Russia. I understand that homophobia is widespread and the proposed same-sex marriage legislation is an attempt to diminish it.
Albania also has what I think is a declining tradition of women taking on male roles and living as men when there is no surviving competent male in a family.
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What are the two most recognizable smells in the world?
I'm guessing coffee is one...maybe the other is bread baking?
Mark
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I thought it was cinnamon or vanilla.
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hmm.... i thought it was sweat and whisky.....
no, wait... old carpet and sour hay...
saddle leather and cheap soap?
;) :D
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Blood and honey? Oh wait, that's a song....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaTNeyWaJD0
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe267%2Fnickjadegreen%2FNickRob%2FYearbookYourself_2000.jpg&hash=0001025424f383f354cbba4b85dc51688d0b542b)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe267%2Fnickjadegreen%2Fmisc2%2FYearbookYourself_1996.jpg&hash=9383498813620e5f5235530b7347531254e4a8e7)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe267%2Fnickjadegreen%2Fme%2FYearbookYourself_19882.jpg&hash=233e804f79e18eb454c7d613751684f4f6efdb75)
LOL!
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Loved that "yearbook yourself" section in TDS!
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OMG! Nick, those pics are tooooo funny!
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Nick, they are so so so BAD!! :D
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The price of being one of Nick's loved ones is very high.................................... :D :D :D
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The price of being one of Nick's loved ones is very high.................................... :D :D :D
and don't they know it!!!!!!!!!!!
But I'm WORTH IT!
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OH MY GOD!! A friend in New York gave me that photo of that sleeping queer kid at the shelter years ago, saying that it reminded her of me for some reason. I think I have it stored in the garage or somesuch. Is this a famous work?
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easter: first sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox. usually snows in vermont; the kids hunt easter eggs with their mittens on. works fine.
kj
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and don't they know it!!!!!!!!!!!
But I'm WORTH IT!
Of course you are, Nick, of course you are......................
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:P
Of course you are, Nick, of course you are......................
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OH MY GOD!! A friend in New York gave me that photo of that sleeping queer kid at the shelter years ago, saying that it reminded her of me for some reason. I think I have it stored in the garage or somesuch. Is this a famous work?
I found it in a Google search for an image -- will see if I can remember what keywords I used and find where it was posted. It got my attention right away.
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Nick, they are so so so BAD!! :D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fyearbook_lin.jpg&hash=ceaf72a4f21f051b5dc2967bbd23e7fe4dc9f608) (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fyearbook_jimm7.jpg&hash=6e125b382a3f33d8273b3c93c5bb7d409a34b0ee)
i think we went to the prom together? :D
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Ash Wednesday is the first Wednesday after the first full moon in spring. Easter is the Sunday that's forty days later.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fyearbook_lin.jpg&hash=ceaf72a4f21f051b5dc2967bbd23e7fe4dc9f608) (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fyearbook_jimm7.jpg&hash=6e125b382a3f33d8273b3c93c5bb7d409a34b0ee)
i think we went to the prom together? :D
TOO FUNNY
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg54%2FChapeaugris%2Fennis19862.jpg&hash=d5a5cd6dce7a63408e9af91693eb820d00105c98)
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Easter is forty days after the first full moon in spring.
Close, but I think a closer description of when the date of Easter is set each spring is this......Easter falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the Spring Equinox.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fyearbook_lin.jpg&hash=ceaf72a4f21f051b5dc2967bbd23e7fe4dc9f608) (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fyearbook_jimm7.jpg&hash=6e125b382a3f33d8273b3c93c5bb7d409a34b0ee)
i think we went to the prom together? :D
TOO FUNNY
I have never laughed so hard in my life!!!
And you know Jimmy I think we did!!!!
Looks so familiar.....................;D
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omg! These are toooo funny!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi327.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk463%2Fdcfmod%2FYearbookYourself_1954.jpg&hash=9fc661fe7ba13d176fa383c9491aa9e8b59ba834)
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg54%2FChapeaugris%2Fennis19862.jpg&hash=d5a5cd6dce7a63408e9af91693eb820d00105c98)
Weird! looks like someone in my class at school.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FBrokeback%2FBrokebackMountainShirts3.jpg&hash=7dfa2ad9bf9fa6e3e8b1bb0e5f92591e3a187729)
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Is that the display at the Autry Center?
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Is that the display at the Autry Center?
I'm not sure.
I found it in an article about the display, but there was nothing saying the pic was the current disply.
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The poster next to it says "młode strzelby", "young gun" in Polish.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FBrokeback%2FBrokebackMountainShirts3.jpg&hash=7dfa2ad9bf9fa6e3e8b1bb0e5f92591e3a187729)
Responding to TDS?
or making the news? :D
eta: I see "Imeriksznski" on the text, which I guess would be pronounced sort of like "americanski"
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Close, but I think a closer description of when the date of Easter is set each spring is this......Easter falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon following the Spring Equinox.
...and to think I used know things like this...
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Just watched the 12Mb movie Jimmy put together of the 3rd anniversery of Linda's BBQ in today's TDS. Very nice!!!!! Remember seeing many of these photos 3 years ago, and now here they are again. Thanks so much!
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Loved seeing all those photo's again Jimmy!! Fantastic, thanks!!
Happy Anniversary!!
Sal :-*
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How long before URANUS gets on the photo captioning thread, I wonder? ::)
that sentence sounds wrong in SO many ways, lolz
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3 years, huh. crap, that means i'm 3 years OLDER...at least!
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3 years, huh. crap, that means i'm 3 years OLDER...at least!
Me too.
I was in my 40's 3 years ago.
Now I'm 52, but all friends say I only look 51.
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This week’s Question: Which two common household cleaners have a dangerous toxic reaction if mixed together?
Bleach and ammonia.
I know this from experience.
I mixed the 2 together when I was 16, and the chlorine gas knocked me on my ass.
Often, one looks at a bottle of bleach and wonders, 'Why shouldn't this be mixed with ammonia?' If you know how dangerous chlorine gas is to humans (it was used as a chemical weapon during World War I and later by Nazi Germany in World War II), this will be very apparent. This entry will tell of a few reactions that can occur when bleach and ammonia are mixed in various proportions - the release of chlorine gas is just one of these. In the following sections, the header will be the name of the most dangerous compound produced in the reaction shown. Please, do not try any of this at home
The Octet Rule states that all elements try to fill in their outer electron shell until they have eight electrons. When a chemical has eight electrons in its outer shell, it is then stable. Being so close to having 8 electrons in its outer shell, chlorine is quite desperate to get that one last electron - and will literally rip other atoms apart to do so. This is what happens to your respiratory system when you inhale chlorine gas. The gas tears into your nasal passages, trachea, and lungs by causing massive cellular damage. Obviously, chlorine gas causes a very painful death.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A795611 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A795611)
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Tapley: Masculinity In Transition
Is it OK now to discuss this topic here at DCF?
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hows about you say what you think about the article, just once?
It's okay to respond to the Daily Sheet.
The topic will not move to any other thread here for discussion.
Thanks
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Tapley: Masculinity In Transition
Is it OK now to discuss this topic here at DCF?
Tapley was writing about a topic that's been a perennial one: how concepts of masculinity have evolved and the consequences of men being, inevitably, conflicted about it. TDS was putting a brief spotlight on one perspective and inviting forum members to read it and draw their own conclusions. What you're referring to has been a very contentious subject of discussion both here and elsewhere, with participants letting emotions take the bit and run away with it. That's a separate issue and not TDS' purview.
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Forgot to write this last week, but re the Easter question: can anyone tell us what the earliest and latest dates are that Easter can fall on? I know the answer, if anyone's curious...
Mark
(still thinking about Auntie's BBQ in 2006)
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POST-MODERN MALE MYTHOLOGY
by Milo Morris
I know that discussions of masculinity have created some heated arguments here at DCF in the past. And the few articles that I have seen posted at TDS that address masculinity, even in passing, do so from a fairly one-sided perspective. So I would like to begin by thanking Tellyouwhat personally for allowing me an opportunity to post this opinion piece.
Post-”Movement” Men
Men in the post-modern era often find the values, modalities, and specifics of traditional manhood at odds with contemporary social trends. Advances in technology are just one paradigm shift that has contributed to the friction between men, modern society, and themselves regarding the specifics of the male gender role. There is no need to hunt when one can find meat in abundance at the grocery store. Masculine values such as strength (of mind, body, and spirit—one could say character), respect, and honor have been made less relevant by a society that has become increasingly pampered and self-indulgent. Male modes of behavior, thinking, and feeling have been analyzed, criticized, and ridiculed—especially in the media. Men of all types and sexual orientations have been facing new challenges since the end of the World War II, specifically with regards to work and suburbanization. But it was the Movement Era of the 60s and 70s when masculinity was challenged most. I’m talking about the Sexual Revolution, Civil Rights, Feminism, Gay Rights, Environmentalism, etc. Now post-modern men find ourselves in a position considered as dinosaurs who want to turn back the clock. We don’t’. We’re preservationists…or conservators of something sacred and highly precious: Our point is that there is a core of traditional masculinity that has never gone away, and has value in our current time.
Feminism
Feminism, as a political movement, brought about necessary significant changes. There is no doubt that the state of affairs of women throughout history was in bad shape. The leaders of the Feminist Movement had some wonderful ideas, and were truly concerned about what society as a whole would be like if women continued to be institutionally restricted throughout society. The way America reacted to the movement on a social level was where things became problematic, and Feminism started to accrue its own baggage. We are now left with some negative fall-out from the movement.
What happened to American culture in terms of the fallout from the Feminist Movement is that men were pushed (some stepped) too far back. It was important and necessary that men learn to share power with women. It was important that women achieved legal parity with men. The oppressive, domineering, and subjugative aspects of male culture needed to change in the name of justice and democracy. Many men understood that. The fear that feminism--sometimes unwittingly, sometimes purposely--instilled in many men and women is that if men are allowed to maintain their traditional values and modes of behavior, the result would be oppression, and domination would continue/return. Why?? Because there is a mythological, fundamental defect in males. Nobody took the care to say, "these 5 things about the way men operate need to change." Instead, the male gender was cast as the villain, and the result is that all masculine behavior was questioned, vilified, analyzed, and/or sublimated. Misandry became the new misogyny, and the baby boy was thrown out with the bath water.
Myths
While American men are saddled with popular myths and stereotypes on various topics ranging from what we eat, to what we might be thinking at any given moment, I’m going to focus on mythical male emotional creature. The myth boils to the idea that men are emotionally inferior to women. Here are a handful of myths about masculine emotions
- Men do not know how to express themselves
- Men are poor nurturers
- Men are poor communicators
- Men are insensitive
- Men are missing some emotions
- Men replace emotions with aggression
- Men are in denial and/or fear of their emotions
While one can indeed find examples of men to whom any of these features actually apply, they are just like any other stereotype: flimsy at best, and not applicable across the board. All of these myths have come about in part from examples of dysfunctional men, and in part due to a lack of understanding of masculine modalities. I’m going to explore the latter.
The Coming Masculinity
Last week, I read the opinion piece The Coming Masculinity by Brendan Tapley that was posted on TDS. Tapley takes the mythical phenomenon of masculine emotional inferiority and runs with it, adding new layers of mischaracterization and misunderstanding. Moreover, he lays the blame for homophobia, and hate crimes against male sexual minorities squarely on the shoulders of this imaginary male pandemic.
You can find Tapley's essay here: http://ebar.com/openforum/opforum.php?sec=guest_op&id=224
The Basics
All humans have the same emotions. We all love. We all hate. We all have joy. We all have sadness. We all experience triumph. We all feel disappointment. We are capable of aggression. We can all give compassion. Unless there is something wrong those parts of our brains, we can all feel all these things. On an individual level, how intently we feel one vs. another might differ.
What differs between men and women is the mode of emotional expression. Women are more overt, men are more subtle. It is matter pitch and amplitude to a large extent. When you walk into a party, you will immediately notice that the women are chatting away, laughing, and gesticulating. At first, the men seem to be standing around, doing little or nothing…until you look a little closer. Men have more understated ways of communicating their emotions. We communicate on a male scale. Part of that scale is an economy of language. The rest comes from inflection, facial expression, and body language. Its all there: and just as deep as it is with women. It just doesn't all come out of the mouth. The lift of an eyebrow. The intake or exhalation of a breath. The angle of the head. This is how men tend to express themselves in real time. If one knows what to look for, and when to look, one will see it all there.
(NOTE: I just want to state for the record that from this point on, most what I have to say will be focused on men specifically. This does not mean that what I say might not apply to some women, or that there are not exceptions among men.)
Platonic Male Affection
Talpey observes, “I was walking in Rome when for the third time that day I noticed two men acting affectionately toward one another.”
American men have ways of being affectionate towards each other too. I’m not going to try to assume what these two Romans were doing, but based on where Tapley takes his essay, it seems that the Romans’ behavior appears to be a step or two closer to that of American women than is the behavior of American men. That is not to say that the Romans’ behavior was necessarily effeminate, but based on his description, the Romans were more demonstrative to his eyes than American men.
Again this comes down to an issue of knowing what to look for, and when to look. I would add that circumstances and company also have some influence over which emotions are expressed, and to what degree. I work in a sales job with 3 other guys, all of whom are married heterosexual men. Whenever one of us makes a sale, we all give that salesman a fist-bump. When we do that, we are showing how happy we are with him, and were are congratulating him. We’re saying, “you’re a good guy.” I have also witnessed, offered, and received great tenderness among men with a gesture as simple as a firm squeeze to the shoulder. American men do have a language of touches, and intimate gestures that they use to communicate with each other on an emotional level. It appears that Tapley is not very fluent in that language. As I said earlier, it’s a matter of subtlety.
While it is true that men have boundaries around the physical affection they show to each other, it should be noted that women in our society have their boundaries too. So I have to disagree that the boundaries which men place on physical affection makes their bonds of friendship any weaker than those of women between themselves. As Tapley asserts, men are “Unlike women, who create rich ties within the sisterhood.” Such rich ties most certainly do exist between men. Just look at the oft-clichéd “poker night.” Men need to spend time just among their male friends.
Any man who has a best friend—any close friends at all, really—knows how mistaken Tapley is when he writes, “From an early age, men in this country are trained to go without love or loving gestures from fellow men.”
What is important to note about masculine modes of platonic love is that a man does not share the most authentic version of his deepest emotions with every Tom, Dick, or Harry. Quite the contrary. It takes time to get past the public man, and inside the private man. And not everyone deserves to go there. Each man sizes up the other men in his life and makes decisions over the course of their time together about how far in to let the other man. No man wants to have his emotions abused. This is why the qualities of strength, respect, and honor are so important to men, and to masculinity. They all contribute to mutual feelings of trust and security between men. Men who are weak, disrespectful, and dishonorable cannot be trusted, and will not be allowed inside. This is one aspect of the expectation dynamic. Men expect each other to prove themselves, and in turn want to prove themselves to each other. The longer a man demonstrates his trust-worthiness, the deeper he will be able to get into the another man. It’s a cyclical relationship process. The amount of love and affection one can experience or observe is directly proportional to how much two men trust each other.
One of greatest examples of platonic love between two men was my shown to me by my grandfather and his best friend “Mr. Bruni.” The two of them served together in the Army during the Korean War. “Mr. Bruni” was, as the name would imply, a second-generation Italian-American. These two men, through their shared experience on the battlefield, broke down the barriers of race years before Rosa Parks decided to take a seat in the front of the bus. “Mr. Bruni” was always coming over to our house on weekends with his wife and his kids. He would sit and drink with grandpa. They would laugh sometimes. They would get real quiet sometimes. When grandpa passed on suddenly at the age of 54, “Mr Bruni” and his family were right up front at the funeral. He was inconsolable that day. Later on, he helped my grandma get a job in City Hall. He’s gone now. The strength and pride I feel from these two men and their love for each other continues to shape my life today.
Homophobia
Tapley is correct when he reminds us that only 12.6% sexual minority hate-crime victims are female. Gender-atypical behavior among women is somehow less heinous in society than the same for men. I don’t think there is a single answer as to why this is, but I have a few ideas of my own…for another time.
While the roots of homophobia are as varied and twisted as is each individual homophobe, I cannot rule out Tapley’s assertion that there is a heterosexual man out there that has a “closeted envy” of homo-active men. Where I disagree is that this malady is widespread among hetero men. I have already explored how men do indeed know how to love each other platonically. And I would say that homosexual men do not relate to each other any differently that heterosexual men do when it comes to their platonic friends. The differences take shape when we look at male sexual minorities who are in romantic relationships with other men. I find it illogical for Tapley to compare platonic relationships between heterosexual men, with romantic relationships between homosexual men. It makes no sense to me that the romantic modes of expression among homosexual men would be “what is a new and coming masculinity.”
If this envy among hetero men is indeed, as Tapley theorizes, the “root of homophobia,” then how does that explain all the homophobic women in society?
It seems that Tapley has an unreasonable, and unnecessary expectation that men will model their methods of emotional expression after women, whom he believes to be “better” emotional practitioners. Tapley prefers the more female-style mode of expression, and he holds up homosexual men as the example of males in our society that are closest to it. He tells us that women and gay men have got it right. This is another case of how effeminacy and male homosexuality are linked. That too—by the way—is a male myth.
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There are many hetrosexual women out there who do understand men. We who have been happily married for many, many years not only understand our men, they are also our best friends.
Men with daughters are usually also very supportive of womens rights, particularly in the workplace.
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Thanks so much for the article on the Flag of Equality! I had noticed the flag in Marge's avatar and wondered what it was - and now that I know it seems very appropriate!
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And thanks as well for the article on Daniel Radcliffe. It's heartening to hear about the Trevor Project and their positive work. There's little enough positive news in the world and especially about people working together on something that they feel a passion towards. It's a truly wonderful thing to hear about positive things that people are doing to work together and help others. Here's to positive thoughts and positive news!
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Thanks so much for the article on the Flag of Equality! I had noticed the flag in Marge's avatar and wondered what it was - and now that I know it seems very appropriate!
Yes, thanks for that information. I'm glad to know the story behind it. ;D
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Strictly speaking, though, the idea that an individual star represents an individual state is not quite factual. The blue canton represents the Union as a whole. Having said that, though, I like the idea of using the stars as if the canton represented the order of admission to the Union to highlight those states which have more fully integrated equal rights into their legal systems.
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re: profiles.
i have to admit being amused by the "shelf awareness" model, even though i rarely read hard copy these days. some of the responses might be quite revealing.
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I slightly modified the list, Jack. After reflecting on it, I decided perhaps that particular question shouldn't be quite so public! I'm sure some sharing of hard copy or electronic can go on through PMs or emails. ;-)
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This week’s Question: What do "D W" and "40" stand for in the spray lubricant WD-40?
(W)ater (D)isplacer. ...and if I recall, I believe the "40" had something to do with the original formulator of the product. Something to the effect he didn't feel had the right product concocted until the 40th attempt.
One of the greatest products since sliced bread! I can't think of a time that I have never had a can of it in the garage.
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A thought:
Maybe the question of the week sometimes could be a little less american-oriented?
Very few of the questions are even possible to answer unless you live in the USA, or know it very well.
It would be nice to have some more international-oriented questions sometimes.
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Good point.
If you have a good question appropriate for all of our members, let us know!
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Sure!
I'll try and think of something.
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Sure!
I'll try and think of something.
If my family ancestry stuff is correct, many generations ago, they came from Noway.....so how about something Norwegian! ;D
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OK.
A special Two specials for you, Charlie:
Who's the most famous painter of Norway?
Who created the fjords of Norway? ;D
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This week’s Question: What do "D W" and "40" stand for in the spray lubricant WD-40?
(W)ater (D)isplacer. ...and if I recall, I believe the "40" had something to do with the original formulator of the product. Something to the effect he didn't feel had the right product concocted until the 40th attempt.
One of the greatest products since sliced bread! I can't think of a time that I have never had a can of it in the garage.
Well it also works on bad knees Charlie. My husband messed his knees up in basic training for the army. Late in life they became a real problem when he was working as an electrician on cement slabs. A friend of ours who was overweight (and had chronic knee problems) told him about WD40. Spray it on, wait about 5 minutes and wipe the excess oil off. Takes care of the pain.
He believed it had to do with the propellant DMSO. You can get DMSO by itself, but it is difficult, so he just used the WD40. It really does work. I've tried it.
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Who created the fjords of Norway? ;D
fjord motor company?
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OK.
A special Two specials for you, Charlie:
Who's the most famous painter of Norway?
Edvard Munch (1863-1944) ??
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fjord motor company?
LOL!
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Edvard Munch (1863-1944) ??
Yep.
Your ancestors would be proud of you!!!
:D
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Re: the ever present battle of slow forum speed and too many messages in mailboxes
Is there no way to limit the space alloted to each member and have oldest messages automatically deleted when the limit is reached? Email accounts do it.
We're thinking about that, Doodler, but are going to try an upgrade first.
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Who created the fjords of Norway? ;D
Slartibartfast. 8)
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I held back to give others a chance, Sonja ;).
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linda -- that's interesting about spraying it on your joints. i found this on a website (http://gomestic.com/homemaking/15-uses-for-wd-40/) about WD-40: Spray it in your dog or cat’s ears to get rid of ear mites. Don’t spray too much, obviously.
one thing i don't like hearing about is how people spray it on fishing lures to catch more fish because they think it contains fish oil... dumbasses are probably doing that right now, mucking up the water in streams and lakes all over the world. :P
also, WD-40 is truly global. (http://www.wd40.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=9) it's marketed in over 160 countries, apparently.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fdame_edna_shhh.jpg&hash=500ff56182674ee3c65e748d87753bbdc68bae1b)
sonja -- dame edna says the famous artist from norway was named edvard scream -- didn't he do a famous painting called "the munch"?? :D ;)
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^^^^^
;D ;D ;D
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Slartibartfast. 8)
Yes indeed.
Slartibartfast created the coastline of Norway.
And well done I say! To both Meli and Slartibartfast!!
;D :D :D
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I held back to give others a chance, Sonja ;).
Very considerate, Sara!
;) :)
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sonja -- dame edna says the famous artist from norway was named edvard scream -- didn't he do a famous painting called "the munch"?? :D ;)
LMAO!!
;D
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Well it also works on bad knees Charlie. My husband messed his knees up in basic training for the army. Late in life they became a real problem when he was working as an electrician on cement slabs. A friend of ours who was overweight (and had chronic knee problems) told him about WD40. Spray it on, wait about 5 minutes and wipe the excess oil off. Takes care of the pain.
He believed it had to do with the propellant DMSO. You can get DMSO by itself, but it is difficult, so he just used the WD40. It really does work. I've tried it.
Hello all
DMSO is a solvent which mixes with water. It is nontoxic and us used to dissolve drugs which won't dissolve in water. For example I think it is the normal way of administering some anticancer drugs. It is a very simple chemical, which is probably used in lots of products, I don't know. But you can read up on it here ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide
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DSMO sounds like an industrial band from the 80's. :)
i think the propellant in WD-40 has changed recently, so it might not have the same effect as before for arthritis. still, it seems a bit dangerous EITHER WAY, as the manufacturer recommends NOT spraying it on skin, and avoiding contact with it entirely. it's mostly petroleum distillates or something... which can cause nervous system damage, i'm sure! :P
oh, and i wouldn't recommend spraying WD-40 in dog or cat ears...
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excellent legal disclaimers above^^^^^
"neither the forum nor TDS is responsible for any injury resulting from the use of wd40 on humans, dogs or cats, or the environment."
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DMSO sounds like an industrial band from the 80's. :)
i think the propellant in WD-40 has changed recently, so it might not have the same effect as before for arthritis. still, it seems a bit dangerous EITHER WAY, as the manufacturer recommends NOT spraying it on skin, and avoiding contact with it entirely. it's mostly petroleum distillates or something... which can cause nervous system damage, i'm sure! :P
I would say, emergency use only :D
and btw I don't think you can call DMSO a propellant, it's not a gas. Has a higher boiling point than water. ::)
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This is starting to sound like Nia Vardolis' father and the Windex obsession in "My Big Fat Greek Wedding." :)
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Mark!
loved your profile in TDS!
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Congrats to Mark for being brave enough to go first in our member profile revival! Thanks, Mark!
Anyone willing to go next?
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Mark, that was a great profile! Really enjoyed reading it.
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^^^^^^^^^^
What they all said, Mark!
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Great great profile, Mark.
Loved learning all the things you wrote about!!
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Good on ya, Mark! Seems like only a few days ago you first called me after reading the TIME letter... ;D
I sent a note to TDS volunteering to do a profile if I haven't already done one--I honestly can't remember. Ah, senility sets in after 40.
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Mark - thanks so much for your profile. I have really missed these, and I really appreciate - especially - that an 'Ennis' is willing to write about himself. As MF said - we're here to be for each other the friends that Jack and Ennis never had. I hope other 'Ennises' will come forward and be equally sharing. :-*
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It was really nice to read your profile (((((((((((((((((Mark))))))))))))))))
Thank you!!!! :-*
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Thanks for all your kind words, everybody! I am truly moved. I value your friendships very much.
I love doing these questionnaires--I like to know what makes my friends tick, their likes and dislikes, etc.
A friend wrote that it was like reading the back page of VANITY FAIR. I love to read those, so I was flattered.
And as today is tennis great Jimmy Connors' birthday, I will share another embarrassing story, from around 1980: There was a tournament in Amelia Island and you can get there from here via insterstate. I was eating with a friend in Pizza Hut by the interstate when I saw a dead ringer for JC in a dark corner with a kid (his son?) and another man (his coach?). I thought, ohmigod! it's my favorite tennis player (plus, I had a huge crush on him) right here! So I walked by his table several times during my meal, always smiling. Finally, convinced it was Jimbo, I knelt at the table by his feet and started in: "Mr. Connors, please forgive me invading your privacy, but I won't make a scene. You're just my favorite tennis player ever, yada yada yada..." but then I got a good close look and it was NOT Jimmy Connors. I was so mortified. I crept back to my table and couldn't even eat. It was something out of I LOVE LUCY, let me tell you. But he was a good sport about it and as he was leaving told me that he was often mistaken for Jimmy C. So I felt a little better. Of course my friend thought the whole thing was hilarious and was laughing so hard that HE couldn't eat. He tells the story to this day. I guess if I ever really meet Jimmy Connors I'd tell it. Good ice-breaker, I would think.
Mark
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Bwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa!! ;D ;D ;D... that is hilarious Mark...........thanks for sharing it..............it happens, it happens..... ::) ::) ::)........
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Ellen Degeneres does a great routine about that, where you think you see someone in the distance that you know: "Nancy...? (Waves cautiously) Nancy! (Waves more enthusiastically) NANCY! (Waving like a fool and yelling!) HI NANCY!!!!!!!! (Both hands waving, jumping up and down...and then the huge gasping intake of breath, bending over, dying 1,000 times:) EEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, that's not Nancy!"
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lmao!
Reminds me of a time my brother did that to someone on purpose as a joke.
A group of us had gone bowling, and a few lanes down, was a guy in a football jersey, with a player's name on the back. My brother tured to us and said "hey, watch this."
He then went up to that guy, and started asking him for his autograph.
Did they look alike? Ummm.......well the player whose name was on the jersey was black, and this guy was white. what does that tell ya?
:D
He asked him over and over, and finally the guy signed a piece of paper just to shut my brother up.
:D :D :D :D
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:D :D :D
Great stories, both of you, Mark and Chuck.
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^^^^^^^^^^^Amen to all that, Mark!
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Heh. When my husband was driving in Sweden on a business trip, women kept smiling at him from their cars. He was getting pretty puffed up about it. Then when he was at rest stop a woman came rushing up and babbling at him in Swedish, calling him Sven, until he told her he was English. She turned on her heel and walked away. He never did find out who Sven was.
ETA: that was in 1990. My husband is tall with brown hair (or it was then -- he was 40) and a beard. Any ideas, Sonja or Mia?
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Heh. When my husband was driving in Sweden on a business trip, women kept smiling at him from their cars. He was getting pretty puffed up about it. Then when he was at rest stop a woman came rushing up and babbling at him in Swedish, calling him Sven, until he told her he was English. She turned on her heel and walked away. He never did find out who Sven was.
ETA: that was in 1990. My husband is tall with brown hair (or it was then -- he was 40) and a beard. Any ideas, Sonja or Mia?
Maybe Sven Wollter
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musikisyd.se%2Fimages%2Fpress%2Fs_wollter_press.jpg&hash=8ce3b22a23907f96e2a69a14ea67d159b0db2bbc)
the only "famous" bearded Swede of the right age I can think of.
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When my husband gets off the phone I'll show him!
ETA: That's probably the guy. He's 16 years older than my husband but this picture is pretty close to what he looked like back then. Mystery solved at last!
While we were talking about this, he told me a story I hadn't heard. When he was in his early 20s his sister got married and the day of the wedding he was dressed in morning clothes (with top hat and everything), walking around town (Dorchester, Dorset) with his girlfriend, who was also dressed to the nines. A teenage boy thought he was Prince Charles (they're close to the same age and T.'s ears were more prominent back then :D) and asked him to sign something so he could prove to his friends that he'd seen him. So T. signed it "Charles Windsor"! Later he found out that the kid was going around town trying to sell it. Prince Charles does have property around there so it wasn't completely implausible that he would be there.
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I'm sure they mistook him for Sven Wollter.
It makes a lot of sense, he was nominated the sexiest man in Sweden..... ;D
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Is he from Lund (wherever that is)?
:D
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Nope.
Too bad, isn't it?
;D
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I'm sure they mistook him for Sven Wollter.
It makes a lot of sense, he was nominated the sexiest man in Sweden..... ;D
52 years ago he wasn't just nominated.... He WAS the sexiest man in Sweden.
;)
..... and he sure was.....
*Sighs*
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Sexiest man in Sweden... no wonder all those women were going nuts. :D My husband says that the first two times were flattering but when it kept happening, he began to suspect it was matter of mistaken identity!
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Sexiest man in Sweden... no wonder all those women were going nuts. :D My husband says that the first two times were flattering but when it kept happening, he began to suspect it was matter of mistaken identity!
He must be really like Sven Wollter then...
:) :) :) :) :)
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Sexiest man in Sweden... no wonder all those women were going nuts. :D My husband says that the first two times were flattering but when it kept happening, he began to suspect it was matter of mistaken identity!
It was probably the happiest day of their life!
;D ;D
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Sven Wollter does have many charms
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So Nick, how is it you have heard of him?
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So Nick, how is it you have heard of him?
I am sure there is a word like "Polyglot" that describes someone that soaks up info and experiences - that would be me.
Was diagnosed with eidetic memory as a child; what was read, experienced or registered generally stuck, and I consumed all and everything.
The eidetic memory faded as I hit my late teens, but my head is still full of crap, although now in a much more disorganised fashion, and with a lot of the indexes missing.
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Thanks guys for another interesting TDS.
Just a point of accuracy (in the same way as terribly bad grammar should be corrected), why the use of "football (soccer)"? Or the explanation of football being soccer....? It is a redundancy! Of course football is soccer - they are one and the same thing.
Football and soccer are both terms coigned in Britain for a sport played mostly with the feet and with a ball (a spherical object). Soccer is a bastardisation of Association Football, a term designed to differentiate it (incorrectly) from Rugby. The worldwide governing body of the sport uses Football in its name, because that is the sport. Unlike the sport played in the US which neither uses a "ball" and is not played mostly with the feet, but is illogically called football.
So please in future can we just leave the word football to describe the sport of football, but use the term American Football (hardly anyone else seriously plays it) to more correctly describe the other thing......you are talking to a broad international audience in TDS after all.
::)
LOL!
that should rattle a few cages
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A new Daily Sheet. So I guess I'm old news now. Oh well, as we said in journalism college, today's headlines are tomorrow's toilet paper...
But I will always relish the experience and thrill of being a Daily Sheet topic! My friends were impressed.
Mark
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Thanks guys for another interesting TDS.
Just a point of accuracy (in the same way as terribly bad grammar should be corrected), why the use of "football (soccer)"? Or the explanation of football being soccer....? It is a redundancy! Of course football is soccer - they are one and the same thing.
Football and soccer are both terms coigned in Britain for a sport played mostly with the feet and with a ball (a spherical object). Soccer is a bastardisation of Association Football, a term designed to differentiate it (incorrectly) from Rugby. The worldwide governing body of the sport uses Football in its name, because that is the sport. Unlike the sport played in the US which neither uses a "ball" and is not played mostly with the feet, but is illogically called football.
So please in future can we just leave the word football to describe the sport of football, but use the term American Football (hardly anyone else seriously plays it) to more correctly describe the other thing......you are talking to a broad international audience in TDS after all.
::)
LOL!
that should rattle a few cages
However in Australia, and I am sure other countries, when you say football we first think Rugby. This is supposed to be an international forum.
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A new Daily Sheet. So I guess I'm old news now. Oh well, as we said in journalism college, today's headlines are tomorrow's toilet paper...
But I will always relish the experience and thrill of being a Daily Sheet topic! My friends were impressed.
Mark
Hey, Mark, most people just get 15 minutes of fame. You got four whole days! :D
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However in Australia, and I am sure other countries, when you say football we first think Rugby. This is supposed to be an international forum.
Brian and Trigger, just as soon as we have some international volunteers working on TDS, we'd be glad to consider revising our terminology. Until then, we'll probably stick with what we know best. :D
As for me, I'm more of a basketball fan. ;)
- Lydia
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Brian and Trigger, just as soon as we have some international volunteers working on TDS, we'd be glad to consider revising our terminology. Until then, we'll probably stick with what we know best. :D
As for me, I'm more of a basketball fan. ;)
- Lydia
To be pedantic, only people in New South Wales and a number in Queensland think first of rugby when seeing the word "football". Most Australians would think of Australian Rules Football, so I am happy with the way TDS team edited the article.
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So please in future can we just leave the word football to describe the sport of football, but use the term American Football (hardly anyone else seriously plays it) to more correctly describe the other thing......you are talking to a broad international audience in TDS after all.
that should rattle a few cages
that's how it was written in the article. you'll have to take it up with wikipedia, friend. >:D :D
damn those persnickety athletic types!
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The theater company here in Portland on whose artistic board I sit is considering scripts for next year, and "The Sum of Us" is one of my faves--3 men, 1 woman, 1 set, lovely writing. However, it's set in Australia, and the slang ("sheilas" "footie" etc.) is very specific. The board president actually said, "Couldn't we just do it without the accents?" Um, no. ::)
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I'm assuming the play is based on the movie, Dean?
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Vice-versa--play came first. (The movie actually does a nice job of "opening up" the story via flashbacks, and gives the Joyce character much more of a moving dramatic arc.)
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Enjoyed the article about our gubernatorial race in Virginia.
I am so looking forward to voting for Deeds in November. Now more than ever.
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A couple things...
first, McDonnell's thesis was pretty much against just about everything remotely extra-maritally sexual, not just gays. He said government should “prefer married couples over cohabitators, homosexuals or fornicators.” And that is pretty much the Republican Party stand anyway. (Left unsaid is the phrase "unless you can do it without getting caught.") Seems to me he is an equal opportunity offender.
Second, MANY years ago a close friend of mine offered to place an ad for my puppies in his "local paper." Since he lived in DC, I thought he meant the Washington Post. However, it was The Blade. The ad didn't sell any puppies for me... but HE made lots of new friends.
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Joseph Gordon-Levitt: the New Heath Ledger?
NO!
I like JG-L, but Heath was unique and irreplaceable. There will never be another.
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Joseph Gordon-Levitt: the New Heath Ledger?
NO!
I like JG-L, but Heath was unique and irreplaceable. There will never be another.
True. But when you hear people talking about "the new _____", it's a sign that _____ has made a pretty big impact. ;)
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Okay, I can name seven of them off the top of my head:
Aldrin and Armstrong Apollo 11
Alan Bean and Pete Conrad Apollo 12
Alan Shepard, Apollo 14
Dave Scott, Apollo 15
Jack Schmitt Apollo 17
There were twelve all together. I think Frank Borman was one of the others, but I can't remember which mission.
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Edgar Mitchell was on the moon with Shepard during Apollo 14. Golfing partner.
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Gasp! You mean they was…"golfin buddies?"
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Jack probably swung a few on the links in Childress... But he didn't dare let on to Ennis!
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Thank you for the piece on Alan Turing. i have known his story for quite a while , but the recent news touches us very deeply again I feel.
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Thank you for the piece on Alan Turing. i have known his story for quite a while , but the recent news touches us very deeply again I feel.
There was an omission in TDS this week -- Nax contributed an article about the apology to Turing and the story branched out from there. His name wasn't listed as a contributor, and I just added it.
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Okay, I can name seven of them off the top of my head:
Aldrin and Armstrong Apollo 11
Alan Bean and Pete Conrad Apollo 12
Alan Shepard, Apollo 14
Dave Scott, Apollo 15
Jack Schmitt Apollo 17
There were twelve all together. I think Frank Borman was one of the others, but I can't remember which mission.
yup definitely 12, two each from Apollo's 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, 17 the last being Harrison Schmidt in Dec 1972 I think.
Neil Armstrong - Apollo 11 - July, 1969
Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin - Apollo 11 - July, 1969
Charles "Pete" Conrad - Apollo 12 - November, 1969 (may have been scheduled to land again on Apollo 20, though unlikely as he had already walked on the Moon)
Alan Bean - Apollo 12 - November, 1969
Alan Shepard - Apollo 14 - February, 1971
Edgar Mitchell - Apollo 14 - February, 1971
David Scott - Apollo 15 - July, 1971
James Irwin - Apollo 15 - July, 1971
John Young - Apollo 16 - April, 1972 (also on Apollo 10, without landing)
Charles Duke - Apollo 16 - April, 1972
Eugene Cernan - Apollo 17 - December, 1972 (also on Apollo 10, without landing)
Harrison Schmitt - Apollo 17 - December, 1972
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Roby, I did enjoy your profile - thanks! :)
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Great profile, Roby!
Thanks for writing it!
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Thanks Cally and Chuck :-*
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Loved your profile Roby!
It was a pleasure to read it!
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Thanks for sharing your profile with us , Roby.
It is always so nice to hear more about folks here on the forum.
I am so glad you like San Francisco, as I live here, so I hope you come visit again!!!
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Loved your profile Roby!
It was a pleasure to read it!
Thanks, I tried to do my best!
I am so glad you like San Francisco, as I live here, so I hope you come visit again!!!
It's my plan but I don't know when :)
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It's my plan but I don't know when :)
Well when you do, please let us know!!!
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Well when you do, please let us know!!!
Of course :-*
My husband is aware that I "need" to return to San Francisco before the world ends in 2012 ;D ;D
So, there is a sort of deadline!
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Of course :-*
My husband is aware that I "need" to return to San Francisco before the world ends in 2012 ;D ;D
So, there is a sort of deadline!
Good!! Maybe you can make it in 2011!!! I'll pm you with some things that are going on that year here!
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Wow! When you said you were going to mention my blog in The Daily Sheet, I expected something like
"Doodler has a blog about 'doodles (which are dogs not drawings.) Check it out at...."
You really put some time into reading it, which I appreciate! Thanks so much for the plug!
Sherry
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Just as a very minor note, just for interest, the Michael Cashman, quoted in the EU law segment of TDS, is a former actor who was one half of the UK first prime-time gay kiss, in the soap opera Eastenders in 1987 I think.
he is a much better politician than actor (not a very high bar i am afraid).
According to Google, the first romantic gay kiss in US prime-time was in Dawson's Creek, between Jack and Ethan, in 2000. There are other earlier instances of same sex kissing, none of them prime-time or in a proper drama, LA Law, Relativity, Ally McBeal come to mind, am guessing there were others.
I always did have a soft spot for Dawson's Creek, not only great music, acting, scripts (more awards than many so called adult dramas) but it was one of those series that is very evocative of its time.
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jack and ETHAN shared the first kiss on TV? wow... hey, that's an awful lot like jack and ennis, lol. and alma in HUD,, etc.... i am just glad the basque was not named gilligan, haha.
doodler, your blog article was in depth, but it was cool. it's a treat so see animals here on TDS too. (and not just sheep or horses ;))
and charlotte, thank you for the reunion article. you and that corduroy jacket, whoo hoo! just so you know, it fits me perfectly. (oddly enough, the sleeves of the shirt were too short.. LOL.) i remember wearing the warm jacket in SF after the castro showing, where i manned the bbm collectible display booth. it did have the foil wrapper in the pocket, which i fondled, but left alone. :D i dunno where it is now, probably shrined off in somebody's room. anyway,,,, the lining! i didn't realize the sleeve lining was vinyl... that seems so uncomfortable. like non-breathable. but it is a comfy jacket for sure. you have one of the true treasures from the film, for sure. :)
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Charlotte,
Many thanks for the article on the shirts and the jacket. I did indeed own a nearly identical jacket in 1967. In the Fall of that year, I was twenty-five and driving west from New York to Tacoma. Passed through NE Wyoming. Wish I still had the jacket. It was a favorite.
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Thanks for the TDS again folks, most interesting, you all should get more praise for your time and efforts.
Needless to say that Jamaica has been off my destination list for years. Reggae/dancehall/regaeton music has also been forever tainted by hatred. Although Bob Marley & the Wailers' - Exodus is still a guilty pleasure, cos it is awesome.
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Thanks for the article on relationship counselling for same-sex couples.
I'm trying to reacall if the Gay Men's Health Centre in Melbourne has a similar service for couples. They certainly provide personal counselling and clients can nominate how much they can afford to pay for it. They also run small-group workshops on relationships. I participated in a series of a few years back - (one of the facilitators turned out to be a former student of mine who'd had an unhappy time when the school was homophobic and he had an uncomprehending and unsupportive Anglo-Austraalian step-father. He had come from a country which is not homosphobic and a school where gay students had no need to conceal their sexuality. He came out to me at school after he'd seen me at a gay film festival over the weekend. He went on to do a master's degree and became very active in peer education).
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Where on the human body is the muscle known as the corrugator? What does it do?
From my very own copy of Gray's Anatomy.....The Corrugator supercilii is a small, narrow, pyramidal muscle, placed at the medial end of the eyebrow, beneath the Frontalis and Orbicularis oculi. It arises from the medial end of the superciliary arch; and its fibers pass upward and lateralward, between the palpebral and orbital portions of the Orbicularis oculi, and are inserted into the deep surface of the skin, above the middle of the orbital arch.
Well OK then....no wonder I never made it to medical school! But if I had to say it in lay terms, I suppose it is how you raise your eyebrows.
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dback!
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed learning about you from your profile! Thanks for doing it!
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^^^^What he said! Thanks!
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I enjoyed hearing about Cleveland hosting the Gay Games!
The only thing that bothers me about the FGG (Federation of
Gay Games) is that I know a woman who is on the Los Angeles
organizing comittee who has tried to get the games for L.A. since
the 80's and she says there is a huge bias against Los Angeles
within the organization, so much so that even in 1986 they gave
them to San Francisco twice...but they submit every year. Someday!
1982 San Francisco United States
1986 San Francisco United States
1990 Vancouver Canada
1994 New York City United States
1998 Amsterdam Netherlands
2002 Sydney Australia
2006 Chicago United States
2010 Cologne Germany
2014 Cleveland United States
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I suppose it is how you raise your eyebrows.
according to wikipedia (lol): The Corrugator draws the eyebrow downward and medialward, producing the vertical wrinkles of the forehead. It is the “frowning” muscle, and may be regarded as the principal muscle in the expression of suffering.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fbbm1106.jpg&hash=99de560a9e52a09f4bbdada2d21356e258739fbc)
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according to wikipedia (lol): The Corrugator draws the eyebrow downward and medialward, producing the vertical wrinkles of the forehead. It is the “frowning” muscle, and may be regarded as the principal muscle in the expression of suffering
If indeed what I bolded above is true Jimmy, this would mean both Jack & Ennis damn near broke their Corrugators over the years :'(
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Thank you for using my photo in TDS. Interesting choice.
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Dback! Loved your profile...I wish we lived closer so we could go to Borders together! Your words about your mom made me tear up and made me step back a minute to think about my mom....who more often than not ...drives me crazy. But I will remember your words and take more deep breaths around her. Thank you!
Also thought you would want to know that Christina just finished her 8th Marathon! The Portland one! Her goal is 10 by 40 and she is 2 away! It is never too late to start working out....I just started and I am feeling good!
Keep up your awesome movie reviews...you keep that thread moving!
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I hadn't seen the actual design and messages on the postcards until I clicked on the link in the "Postcards for Equality" story. (Look for the "Obtain Artwork) in the upper left corner of that web page.) They express their messages very simply and directly. I like them. I hope our Forum can add a few dozen to the ones already flowing into Obama's office.
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quipus: set of knotted cords used to convey info among ancient incas. i think nobody knows how to "read" them any more, though...
kj (textile-head)
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Quipu or khipu in the singular.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu
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dback! Enjoyed your profile in TDS this week, you seem open, honest and funny! thanks! :) :)...Jonn
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quipu is a knotted rope. The language, I believe, is Quechua.
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Awwww, I'm all a-blushing. :-* Back atcha, folks.
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Hello Brokie-friends,
I maybe totally wrong in this section and maybe my note is not justified, but I am following the daily sheet since such long time and I was always amazed by it.
But this time, I actually am a bit sad. I would have love to be mentioned that Stephen Gately has passed away, I even wrote an email to the daily sheet asking nicely to it being mentioned.
Maybe it's not a big thing that he died? Or maybe there is a thread at DC I haven't found yet where his passing away is talked about?
A short mentioning would have been very comforting, because Stephen has been a wonderful person. I have known his former boyfriend Eloy de Jong since I am 13 years old. Yes, I admit, I have been a groupie of his boyband Caught in the act and I have always known that he was gay. But he had a terrible time not being allowed to admit that he is in love with men until he met Stephen. Stephen was a kind of pioneer and one of the first member of a boyband that came out of his closet. In my opinion he just deserved a special place to be remembered, especially in a News Sheet as good as TDS in this community is.
I met Stephen a lot of time. He loved Eloy, he loved animals and he loved his life. After being finally able to walk free with Eloy thorugh the streets, being able to take the same plane, to drive in the same car they became a very lucky couple. Unfortunately it didn't last and each one of them got a new boyfriend / husband but they will be always be remembered as the boyband members that came out of their closest despite their hard contracts.
A small picture of him, just a note in the TDS... but there is nothing at all and it makes me very sad. As I said before: Maybe my sadness isn't justfied and I just missed something. But DC is such a large place that I get lost with all the threads and I only can follow a few of them as my time allows. But I love this community and I love BBM.
Stephen's death nearly touched me as deep as Heath' death did and I really hope that Stephen will find peace whereever he may be now.
Thanks for reading my post and taking the time. I am just a small member.
Hugs to all.
cinimini / cornflake
Edit. Sorry for my English...
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Cimini, hey, don't apologize for reaching out when you are
feeling the pain of loss. I can't speak for the whole forum, but
I know this has been posted about on the Hot Topics thread.
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From today's TDS:
In December 2004, Julie Bogart (forum member Alma was driving home from a Christmas performance of Jacob Marley's Christmas Carol, she wondered "what it would be to study theology not in order to get more clarity about God, but to find a way to aid humans in being exactly what they are - oh so very human. . . "
Wow! Did the stage production inspire all of this or were you
bored? Actually, I was wondering, 'cause of the title, what was
this production about? Is it a version of Christmas Carol, or was
that an inspiration to look at it from Marley's pov? Just curious!
Nice to see a picture of you Julie and read about your blog!
Take care!
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"one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics......"
Plato, I think.
G
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...
I would have love to be mentioned that Stephen Gately has passed away, I even wrote an email to the daily sheet asking nicely to it being mentioned.
Maybe it's not a big thing that he died? Or maybe there is a thread at DC I haven't found yet where his passing away is talked about?
...
hi steffi, sorry for the delay, but we will be including something in saturday's TDS about stephen. thank you for your concern and for your suggestion to TDS. yes, there are threads where you can share your grief ("sharing sad news" in the start your own threads forum and "mourning someone who has died" in the support groups & connections forum).
the music thread ("what are you listening to now?" in TV and music) is a nice place to celebrate what stephen brought his fans musically. since last saturday, some members have been posting his music videos (and boyzone vids) and expressing their sadness over this sudden loss. stephen will be missed. :"> :'( :"> :'(
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"one of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics......"
Plato, I think.
G
"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors?"
Yep! definitely Plato.
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Thank you for including my post in the Diner about St Damien. The more I read about him the more impressed I get. Although I knew about him beforehand, the catalyst for my renewed appreciation was a one-man play about him by Aldyth Morris, produced by Hawaii Public Television and presented on PBS in the late 70's, a very powerful play.
One of the most incredible moments during it was the recollection of an incident when the government of the Kingdom of Hawaii was trying its best to get rid of him so that he wouldn't bring attention to the world of the shortcomings in the government's treatment of those suffering from Hansen's disease. Father Damien wanted to go to confession and receive penance, but the government would not let a priest who was supposed to visit him at the colony get off the boat, thinking that Father Damien would have to board the ship and they would thereby get him off the peninsula. So he was forced to shout his confession from dockside to the priest on board. Many people aboard the ship heard this, and the government was so embarassed by the incident that they had to ease pressure on him, and eventually accepted his ministry there with great enthusiasm.
Ever since seeing this play, I have been trying to read as much as I can about him, and consider him one of my personal heroes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_(play) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damien_(play))
http://theater2.nytimes.com/mem/theater/treview.html?res=9C0CE3DD1E39F930A25757C0A967948260 (http://theater2.nytimes.com/mem/theater/treview.html?res=9C0CE3DD1E39F930A25757C0A967948260)
A prayer card from Belgium on the day of canonization.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi107.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm312%2FBelbbmfan%2FP1030073.jpg&hash=84b51ce02810b272a87fd1007d50605e72e8992e)
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Thanks for the Stephen-Tribute.
Here's mine to him and BBM.
Rest in peace, Stephen. I will miss you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwb6vCoORD8
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Thanks for including the photo of one of my roses in TDS. We have had a few freezes at night now, but the roses I have up next to the house continue to bloom and are doing well. Usually by mid-November, I cut them all back to prevent damage from heavy snow and ice accumulation in the heart of winter, and then in the spring take the canes on down to just a few inches from the ground to simulate spring growth.
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you're welcome, charlie! and i hope readers click on the link to see the other beauties you posted. i know winter is around the corner so i wanted to get them in TDS before before a big freeze. can't wait to see what blossoms next spring!
and thanks also cinimini for posting your gately/heath tribute video. :)
fritz, saint damien certainly seems like a wonderful person to have as a hero. thank you for bring him up in the diner last week.
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Artist Vincent Van Gogh sold just one painting during his life time, which painting was it?
My favorite artist.....he sold just one painting out of more than 900 he produced in his lifetime..... Red Vineyards of Arles , 1888. Oil on canvas, and it is housed at the Pushkin Museum of Fine Art, Moscow, Russia.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi165.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu70%2Fgertie_06%2FCollectibles%2Fvangogh89.jpg&hash=f584e31b6460f675e8aec5628523e900479dfcf7)
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Thanks for that, Charlie! I've always heard that fact about the painting, but had never seen a copy of it till now.
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amazingly gorgeous painting,,, thanks for post it, charlie!
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From today's TDS:
Wow! Did the stage production inspire all of this or were you
bored? Actually, I was wondering, 'cause of the title, what was
this production about? Is it a version of Christmas Carol, or was
that an inspiration to look at it from Marley's pov? Just curious!
Nice to see a picture of you Julie and read about your blog!
Take care!
Oh yes, it's "A Christmas Carol" from the perspective of Jacob Marley, who has been assigned to try to save Scrooge (hence the three ghosts) and thus avoid purgatory. The theater company I work with did it in Portland a couple years ago. It's very dark and trippy, but a nice contrast/bookend to the classic. We did it with all women, which was also interesting.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks! I don't seem to tire of the yearly variations on this
story and somehow I have never come across this one before.
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Do you have any faves? USA TODAY regards "Magoo's Christmas Carol"--with a score by Jule Styne and Bob Merrill, of "Funny Girl" fame--as one of the Holy Grails. "Muppet Christmas Carol" is surprisingly faithful as well as funny. I occasionally get spacey about which TV shows have done "Christmas Carol" episodes and which ones have done "It's a Wonderful Life" episodes--"Moonlighting" had a good version of the latter.
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Do you have any faves? USA TODAY regards "Magoo's Christmas Carol"--with
a score by Jule Styne and Bob Merrill, of "Funny Girl" fame--as one of the Holy Grails.
I remember that version when it first aired, believe it or not, when
I was in the second grade back in 1962. My classmates all
discussed that for a week! It then was aired several years in a
row, but never became a perennial like the Rudolph special or
the Charlie Brown Christmas.
Over the years, though, I always remembered the music and
when it came on vhs in the 80's and I saw it again (the first time
I saw it in color!) I was flabbergasted to find out Styne & Merrill had
done the score! No wonder I remembered the music, I thought.
The song "Winter Was Warm" from that score I have always loved.
I did a photocaption post of those song lyrics using only BBM fan art
pieces a couple years ago.
The idea of using the Mr. Magoo character as Scrooge was an inspired
one, I think, and I agree with USA Today!
It seems every other version of A Christmas Carol--that I like something
about it, but not as a whole. The third ghost always seems to be a problem
in many of the versions, the tone veers wildly from abject horror to just "let's
get this one over quickly".
Many regard the 1951 version with Alistair Sim one of the best. I have never
been completely enamored of it. The 1938 MGM version is too slick. It's not
really involving. And, of course, the Bill Murray update--Scrooged--just isn't
that funny as was intended, it comes off mean. I may have to revisit the
Muppet version--the year I saw it was "after" Christmas and I guess I'd had
enough of the holidays that year and just wasn't into it at the time.
I wrote up a synopsis of a "gay version" of A Christmas Carol once,
which I had hoped would progress into an actual production, but
it didn't happen. In my version, Marley and Eb were gay, lovers (partners)
and Marley had succumbed to aids on Christmas Eve and that had
turned Eb into the "Scrooge" personality. Etc. Heh!
I did a see another version in the 90's on stage--A Gay Christmas Carol--in
which the ghost of Christmas past was Judy Garland. Christmas Present was
Liza MInnelli! I don't remember who the third was! But the actress who played
Judy was uncanny. You'd have thought Judy came in off the street and gave us
a show. Even better than Judy Davis was in the tv version (although the stage
actress only had to play one age).
Anyhoo, the new version coming out with Jim Carrey, I am already off it
because it's filmed in the same creepy way that The Polar Express was
and I did not care for that style of animation at all. The people all looked
creepy, I'll probably see it at some point though.
I read that A Christmas Carol is the most filmed afaptation of any other
story. More films have been made from that book (story) than any other book.
Somebody will get it right someday! LOL!
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Lyle, I totally agree that THE POLAR EXPRESS was creepy--thanks too for the warning that the Jim Carrey version will be done in this same style of creepy animation-like whatever-you-call-it "style."
I like the Alastair Sim XMAS CAROL probably best of all. Don't remember Magoo's Xmas Carol. Maybe I'll watch it this year.
SO many versions of this story.
My favorite Xmas movies remain THE BISHOP'S WIFE and THE CHEATERS.
Gosh, to think Christmas is only two months and two days away! Egad!
Mark
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I like the Alastair Sim XMAS CAROL probably best of all. Don't remember Magoo's Xmas Carol. Maybe I'll watch it this year.
Oh, I love Magoo's Christmas Carol.....particularly the songs "Alone In The World" and "Winter Was Warm".
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Oh, I love Magoo's Christmas Carol.....particularly the songs "Alone In The World" and "Winter Was Warm".
If you guys would permit me an indulgence--I stated that I had done a post with
the lyrics to "Winter Was Warm" and because of the mentioning of the song I
wanted to see that post again. I finally found it (turns out it was in one of the
Laugh-In series of posts) and because of forum formatting changes since
then and having to relocate some of the pictures (and replace a couple) from
almost three years ago--I had to restore it. So, I thought I'd repost it here--if you
don't mind.
Note: One reason I like this post so much is that all of the images used in it
are from the talented people who post on the Fan Art thread. I remember
some of the images are from Pat Sinnot, Gnash, Dennis, Chris Fewa, Mobody,
Niims and others. If you know, feel free to credit them--I love the work from the
posters on that thread!
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Ennis & Jack’s
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2FLaugh-in.jpg&hash=4f7432106ca9aaae5dd9cce164a86e2e79961d51)
Winter Was Warm
(Styne/Merrill)
lyrics & musicWinter Was Warm
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg297.imageshack.us%2Fimg297%2F4307%2Fjackennisbubbleqh0.jpg&hash=2357ce3c36b6c9490743be92178d321c7823f5fa)
"Winter was warm..."
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FWhat-the-fcks-he-lookin-at.jpg&hash=21c887000413a834b1a4a9f42ae9b605aede1124)
"Summer soft that year..."
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FYeah-Im-lookin-at-you-cow.jpg&hash=9655bcd5e9e18e8076ce18f9a53f352836b5c15c)
"...and winter was warm"
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fbbm_truckwatercolor1.jpg&hash=335f984021c8dcb7b08fa099e14fc4a80365769d)
"Without a sign of frost..."
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FRedlined-It-All-The-Way.jpg&hash=13e56b1456077a80f36b621466435cf96c686e19)
"Like winter lost…"
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg324.imageshack.us%2Fimg324%2F4580%2Fwyomingsigntopographyec4.jpg&hash=e7f00b22c2ce286e32eae7d7631c5571e054b371)
"...it’s way that year"
"It seems,"
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FWEBAnything-interestin-up-t.jpg&hash=142d601e614548aa24789158cc5028811ecc76a0)"...as I recall,"
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg179.imageshack.us%2Fimg179%2F372%2Fennishat2sz1.jpg&hash=26a587ead20e80fabe6a1c52ae182f6074ff716d)"No blossoms fell that fall"
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FInTheirDreams.jpg&hash=5c0d933f29c95f1b3bc0e8c37b7517094ac8ff1f)"They didn’t leave at all"
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FGot-im-in-my-sights.jpg&hash=d1f083a6a97822dba30f76b9cdcb2acb50416e15)
"Or did love paint an illusion?"
"Now trees, with a sigh…"(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FJack-and-Dog.jpg&hash=6131c2f0de6562c140ccd30077f03c1bbf538256)
"Stand and shiver...(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FInsides-Coming-Out.jpg&hash=763e934829ebbb42a2725dedf8e1b0c4fd410176)
...while their dreams fall…"
"…I cry"(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv511%2Ftombradysnakedbootleg%2Fbbm%2Fnightmare.jpg&hash=59494d1bf3ba459fd8c6d50ec89841e9a1f8f4c0)
"And all my dreams are there..."
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FCowboys.jpg&hash=0c4b33fe3b0b81e3320b3ae4056ec54c86b513ca)
"...wrapped up somewhere in summer leaves."
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FThe-Embrace-Electrified.jpg&hash=e2fcad1fe27c1e24c2d83463b8f316335b350f28)
"Oh what I’d give to be…"
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2Flildarlin.jpg&hash=b28308f233b4d34b0c84a05195a943f448feff2a)
"To be in love again!"
"This year the winter is cold."(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FEnnis-Memory-1.jpg&hash=5ea84264dde5a4f5e2344b91c05966e2bf1aa3da)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi94.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl113%2FPatSinnott%2FEnnis-Dark-Time.jpg&hash=db52041c2fa21d477b45fbf85225b654e3e63323)"Will it e v e r be warm..."
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Faint_queer2.jpg&hash=90244158c08946b3d28c1f8ebcfdcb039fc38ebe)
"...as it was then?"
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That was beautiful and sad - brought tears to my eyes but they needed to be refreshed. :(
Thank you, HT :-*
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Thanks, Lyle. It's nice to see that again. Sometimes I miss the days when Photo Caps were full of poignant posts. I don't mind the hilarious, irreverent ones currently there but I'm not good at that kind, which is why I rarely contribute to that thread now.
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There are still poignant posts in Photo Caps, Kim - in the minority but not infrequent. These include your own, of course, but here's another.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=36777.msg1696660#msg1696660 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=36777.msg1696660#msg1696660)
I agree, I like a good (dirty) laugh, but it's the ones that touch your heart that are the most memorable.
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Re Jack's 100 kisses: It would appear that you have to be under 30 at least to qualify. ::) ;D
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That leaves out a few of us.
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I wrote up a synopsis of a "gay version" of A Christmas Carol once,
which I had hoped would progress into an actual production, but
it didn't happen. In my version, Marley and Eb were gay, lovers (partners)
and Marley had succumbed to aids on Christmas Eve and that had
turned Eb into the "Scrooge" personality. Etc. Heh!
Funny, I was thinking that someone--maybe me--should write a slash fanfic prequel with "Ben" and "Jacob" as young lovers--but Ben decides that he's going to marry the girl who's in love with him, and renounce Jacob. Jacob, heartsick with love, stays with Ben for years as his business partner, because he can't bear to leave him--but like Jack and Ennis at the beginning of "BBM," they never acknowledge or speak of their love. I really need to finish reading Dickens' original to see how all the pieces might fit together.
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Thanks, Lyle. It's nice to see that again. Sometimes I miss the days when Photo Caps were full of poignant posts. I don't mind the hilarious, irreverent ones currently there but I'm not good at that kind, which is why I rarely contribute to that thread now.
I know what you mean, chapeaugris...even though I post on the photo cap thread every now and then I still feel a twinge of shame poking fun at was such a sad tale of these two men. I loved the poignant posts too, teary as they make me.
Mark
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The piece on The Washington Blade and the profile on Lou Chibbaro, its top crime/political reporter, got me reminiscining.
When the trial was held in Laramie for the killers of Mathew Shepherd, Lou was sent out from Washington by The Blade to cover it. It was said he was the only person in the courtroom wearing a suit and tie! Lou got to know Dave Cullen who was also covering the trial and they occasionally had lunch together.
Lou and I were briefly roommates in the 70s and lived in the same building on Capitol Hill behind the Supreme Court for years. In the early years of The Blade, Lou had to work as a taxi driver so that he could make ends meet as a reporter. Of course things improved. Today, The Blade could be seen as the gay New York Times.
I have kept Lou abreast of this Cullen website. He and I were part of a small group of friends in December of 2005 who saw Brokeback Mountain for the first time together in Bethseda, Md. I could hardly speak afterwards and soon found the forum.
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The Washington Blade was one of those free papers it never occurred to me to pick up when I saw a stack of them. I mean, I'm not gay so why would it interest me? That's one way Brokeback affected me: now I read it whenever I'm back in Washington. Heck, now they have a stack of them at the entrance to the Bethesda public library, which I doubt was the case 20 years ago.
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ok -- just have to throw in my fave version of christmas carol -- "Scrooge" the musical, with Albert Finney. I don't think Lyle mentioned that.
For me that one got all the casting and sets just right.
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Scrooged is my own favorite -- followed closely by the Patrick Stewart version.
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"Winter was warm..."
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Beautiful images Lyle!
Most of which I haven't seen before.
Thanks for posting them!
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Artist Vincent Van Gogh sold just one painting during his life time, which painting was it?
My favorite artist.....he sold just one painting out of more than 900 he produced in his lifetime..... Red Vineyards of Arles , 1888. Oil on canvas, and it is housed at the Pushkin Museum of Fine Art, Moscow, Russia.
I just returned from a 10 day trip to the Benelux countries. I was lucky enough to visit the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam. I fell in love with his work. If you ever have a chance to go to the museum it is very well done with a great selection of work including many of his letters. I had to go through the museum quickly and wondered which painting was the one that sold so thank you so much for posting it here!
Also, every Catholic church we visited in Belgium had a tribute to Father Damien with his story. I didn't know about him until our trip and he had an amazing story!
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Were you In Bruges?
I always thought Benelux was the name of my mother's
old vacuum cleaner.
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Ellen, I, too, think the Albert Finney musical version of Scrooge
is really fine. I had only seen it on television over the years and
when it came out on vhs in the 80's I was surprised to find that
most tv stations, when airing it, had cut out most of the 20 minute
scene involving the third ghost! (Who knew?)
Every year in L.A. I try to go see a Christmas film I had not seen
on the silver screen before. Usually there are one or two playing
and hopefully I haven't seen one of those. Last year, it seems, every
theatre that shows old films had a Christmas film program and I know
that ten or more were playing. I saw a restored version of Miracle on
34th Street (not computer/digitally restored, but the film negative itself
was chemically restored). It was the first showing of the restoration
and quite beautiful. I, alas, did not see the showing of Scrooge at the
cinematheque in Hollywood...or one of my current favorites--Holiday Affair.
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Since we've been discussing A Christmas Carol, I found this wonderful
link on wikipedia that has listed a comprehensive array of A Christmas Carol
adaptations beginning with Charles Dickens own readings of it to
audiences and following with Theatre productions, Film versions, and following
with Television versions, including versions from episodic tv shows like The
Odd Couple, Sanford and Son, Highway to Heaven and Family Ties, among
others. Then there are versions from Radio, Recordings, Opera and a section
called Pastiche sequels. (No ballet versions I wonder?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A_Christmas_Carol_adaptations#Film
A couple of the most interesting things, to me, first, was this
film version from this year, no less, which I obviously haven't seen:
* Ghosts of Girlfriends Past (2009), a contemporary retooling of the tale,
centering around Valentine's Day rather than Christmas.
The Pastiche sequels (or prequel in one case), are versions that
speculate what went on with the characters after the story was finished.
(Slash versions if you will!) One was the TDS mentioned Marley's Ghost.
The several sequel versions all seem interesting and include tv productions,
novels, plays, an online entry and a comic strip. (Graphic novel?)
And, there is a book, probably detailing even more than "I" would want to know:
A Christmas Carol and Its Adaptations:
Dickens's Story on Screen and Television
by Fred Guida, 2000, McFarland & Company.
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Were you In Bruges?
I always thought Benelux was the name of my mother's
old vacuum cleaner.
Wasn't that an electrolux or something like that!!!! Ha!
Yes, I was in Bruges for 5 days and yes....I went there after seeing the movie! I had to see the Fairy Tale City because Ralph Fiennes said so! I also went to Brussels, Ghent, Oostende, Amsterdam and Luxembourg! A very busy 10 days!
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Speaking of vacuums, there's nothing like a Kirby if you're wanting to pick up dirt! ::)
Mark
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Speaking of vacuums, there's nothing like a Kirby if you're wanting to pick up dirt! ::)
Mark
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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There have been sightings of BayCityJohn riding his vacuum... Some worry he's preparing for Halloween! >:D
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LOL.... what kind of vacuum? ;) >:D
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Probably a Red Devil, though I suspect he mainly rides bulls... >:D
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vacuums suck
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HaHa....you all are soooo funny! ::)
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Why am I being picked on this week ? :(
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We gave up beans, that's why. :D
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Calves are castrated for two reasons: to maintain bloodlines (superior breeding - but I bet they won't get into that at the country club, although they might like to for the rest of us...), and it also 'gentles' the males so they're easier to direct to the stockyards (among other places...).
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Calves are castrated for two reasons: to maintain bloodlines (superior breeding - but I bet they won't get into that at the country club, although they might like to for the rest of us...), and it also 'gentles' the males so they're easier to direct to the stockyards (among other places...).
and they are called steers.
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Thank you for the honor of posting my photomontage "Ghost Camp #1 (http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt142/azbbm/ghostcamp1-1.jpg)" in The Daily Sheet.
If you were to ask me, I would tell you that this was without question the most emotional piece I've ever attempted.
I have to tell you, that many of my own tears were wiped from my keyboard and my graphics tablet, many times before I finally stopped burying and resurrecting GC#1 and proceeded to finish it.
Nor was it easy to finally post it.. Fortunately, the late October TOTW's were significantly poignant that I felt it was an opportune moment to send up GC#1 (as well as the preceding montage, "Ashes To Ashes (http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt142/azbbm/ghostcamp1-1.jpg)," finally 'shoving them out the door.'
Once again it is an honor -- especially for an amateur like myself -- to have a work featured on TDS.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Az.bbm
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BTW, here's a must-see fan video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4) by foreverinawe. called Brokeback Dream, that you probably won't soon forget...
I know I won't. It is surpassing.
-Az
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4)
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BTW, here's a must-see fan video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4) by foreverinawe. called Brokeback Dream, that you probably won't soon forget...
I know I won't. It is surpassing.
-Az
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4)
Thanks for this. I thought my Brokeback tears had all been shed until now.
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Friends,
Since that amazing day in 2006 when first I saw Brokeback Mountain, I have been (please forgive the self-serving eponym) forever in awe. I could list a dozen reasons, and with your help a thousand, for that sea change in my soul, but the one that transcends all others is pretty damned simple:
They loved each other.
I think there is a conflict in everyone, between the heart and the mind, the allegiance to the society that sustains us and the inexplicable longings that arise from our souls. I'm not a psychologist, nor a theologist, but I think I have witnessed this struggle endless times, read of it endlessly. While I champion the progress of societies, I come down on the side of the heart. In my final analysis, what matters in life is Love and Hope.
For all of the personal shortcomings we explore in these beloved characters, keep in mind that their demons were real to them, just as yours are to you, and mine to me. To say "if only they had done such-and-such" is to project our own reactions onto them; they did the best they could.
I don't know why they loved each other. All I know is that I came away from that movie convinced and overjoyed that they did. And I felt,
Good for all of us.
~~~foreverinawe
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Loved the Post of the Day - the brick that's dedicated to Jack and Ennis and how they have affected so many of us - just love it.
Dawn
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Ellen, I, too, think the Albert Finney musical version of Scrooge
is really fine. I had only seen it on television over the years and
when it came out on vhs in the 80's I was surprised to find that
most tv stations, when airing it, had cut out most of the 20 minute
scene involving the third ghost! (Who knew?)
Oh, yeah! I first saw this at a preview in Hollywood, and all the footage was there. In subsequent years, much of that footage was missing out of the movie even in theaters!
I'm so glad it was restored in the DVD. I knew I had seen it the first time, and thought it was very imaginative.
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What a surprise and honour to see one of my pictures in TDS!
Thank you so much for including it!!
It was funny, it's a pic I shot on the spur of the moment, while just passing by these boys in a hurry.
I had no time to check it out, and didn't think it would come out any good at all, really.
And then it made it all the way into TDS!!
:D
Thanks!
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BTW, here's a must-see fan video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4) by foreverinawe. called Brokeback Dream, that you probably won't soon forget...
I know I won't. It is surpassing.
-Az
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4)
I've seen this before, and you're right, it's surpassing!!
Don't watch it if you're not in the mood for crying.... :'(
Thanks, Stan, for reminding me of it.
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Thank you, Forever in Awe, for creating this.
Thank you, Stan, for bringing it back to our attention.
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Thank you, Forever in Awe, for creating this.
Bitte schon, Fritz
~~~fia
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Of all the BBM videos I've seen, I think yours is the best, foreverinawe.
It's awesome.
Thanks for making it.
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^^^ I am happy to second that notion!
The best BBM video I've seen.
And there are some very powerful (but distant) 'runners-up' out there..
"Can there really be two kinds of love?" -- So beautiful!
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http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/Beef-castrate.pdf WHY CASTRATE ??? (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1012.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf242%2Fcoal615%2FCOWBOYS6.jpg&hash=504d0e7bcb0db841f71c0a762396d0c947188999)
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why castrate FOOD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZTM8rMrmjg&feature=PlayList&p=4D4258B24EB277FF ::) HOW TOO COOK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s427-0fBpQ0&feature=related Testicle Festival
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http://www.nda.agric.za/docs/Beef-castrate.pdf WHY CASTRATE ??? (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1012.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf242%2Fcoal615%2FCOWBOYS6.jpg&hash=504d0e7bcb0db841f71c0a762396d0c947188999)
Good thing that the holder isn't.
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Ever have one of those Yea/Boo days?
Twenty four hours ago, my beautiful HP computer quit on me, big time: condensers on the motherboard popped. 'Bout as expensive to fix as a brand new one. I felt like the door had slammed shut on my dungeon. BOO
Hello Best Buy. YEA
Goodbye bank account. BOO
'Nuther nice HP. YEA
But it came with Windows 7, and I didn't know which of my old programs would run on it. BOO
Managed to get it set up by midnight. YEA
Too tired to struggle with the Internet. BOO
Next morning, downloaded Firefox and Thuderbird, and they worked! YEA
But all of my old settings, bookmarks and address book were inaccessible, because the old computer wouldn't run. BOO
Got my old hard drive installed inside the new computer, and managed to recover some files YEA
But not the bookmarks. BOO
Still, I managed to connect to DCF again, so things aren't so bad. YEA
Then I discovered Tuesday's Daily Sheet, and my mention in it. Shot my airplane right outta the sky! *One very big time CHOKE*
Probably I shouldn't say anything, but someone went to some trouble over me. I'm honored, but we all know where it started, and her name is Annie.
~~~fia
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Thanks so much for featuring my drawing of Heath as Casanova together with the painting Andy has. It's always such an honour to be included here. I just want to thank trekfan (Linda) for drawing my attention to the wonderful photo of Heath which made me want to try to draw it.
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Thanks so much for featuring my drawing of Heath as Casanova together with the painting Andy has. It's always such an honour to be included here. I just want to thank trekfan (Linda) for drawing my attention to the wonderful photo of Heath which made me want to try to draw it.
You're welcome, but you did all the beautiful work! :-*
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Ever have one of those Yea/Boo days? ...
...Then I discovered Tuesday's Daily Sheet, and my mention in it. Shot my airplane right outta the sky! *One very big time CHOKE*
Probably I shouldn't say anything, but someone went to some trouble over me. I'm honored, but we all know where it started, and her name is Annie.
~~~fia
Yes, we can relate! :)
And the praise is certainly well-deserved!!!
-Az (Stan)
:)
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The write-up about Annie Proulx doesn't answer the question, WHY did she decide to donate her writings to the NY Public Library?
why not the Cheyenne, Wyoming Public Library?
Is this another path to literary immortality?
Are the manuscripts of no further use to her?
Was it just a fun thing to do, or what?
I don't understand. :-\ ???
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Library Lions is The New York Public Library's most important annual event and one of the most anticipated dinners on New York City's social calendar. This year—at a time when Library usage has skyrocketed—we are expanding on our Library Lions tradition. Along with the noted luminaries we are recognizing tonight—Annie Prolux, Pulitzer Prizewinning author of The Shipping News and "Brokeback Mountain" and Hilary Knight, beloved illustrator of the Eloise children's books—we are honoring three members of the Library's extraordinary staff, heroes on the front lines who make a difference in the everyday lives of New Yorkers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIIOLJ3HPbE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIIOLJ3HPbE)
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i have a few words on the witch hunt & malleus malleficarum article in the Nov. 1-5 daily sheet: while it is true that gay men most likely will have ended up as victims of the witch hunt, i have to say that the article is a bit one-sided. the witch hunts are pretty well documented, and therefore, a bit is known about the demography of the victims. it wasn't primarily social outcasts who were denounced as witches, but very often rather well-situated widows - because the money of a witch was given to the local administration. the witch hunts were preceeded by a couple of years with bad weather that left the harvest underdevelopped and small - most communities were struggling, there wasn't enough food. a convenient situation to direct the blame on the so-called witches. and lastly, while i am sure that there was quite a number of men who were killed in the witch hunts, the majority of victims were female. of course it might feel like the male victims are forgotten, because the witch hunts were this one example of a so-called gendercide, and when writing a serious article about witch hunts, one should never forget the male victims. but considering the facts, it would be fair to mention not only the male victims, but also the vast numbers of women who were killed on the basis of a book written by a monk who hated women. i have read the malleus maleficarum (wouldn't recommend it, it is actually a bit boring), and the center of this book is the intrinsic evil in women and why it is women who much more often than men fall for the evil.
just my 5cents, i hope nobody feels offended, but i thought it would only be fair to mention this. :)
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^^^ i don't think anybody will be offended, martina. that was an article i was going to put in the halloween issue of tds and it drifted into yesterday's edition by chance. the main reason it caught my eye was because of the focus on gay men.
i admit i didn't read the whole article that was linked at the end of the linked article in TDS -- the one with the graphic pics. yet i think the perception among "witches" is that they were mostly all female. i understand many of the women in salem, for instance, were accused because of something in rye bread that made them hallucinate or something. i always remembered that it was women being burned at the stake, and never heard of gay "witches." of course, they wouldn't teach us that in the US school system...
i am glad someone read the article though, and that it inspired you to do some thinking. it's very interesting that they often went after the wealthy widows... it figures that it would have to do with money! ::) :P :(
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i agree with you, jimmy, it sure is an interesting thought. unfortunate that we won't be able to get real numbers on the victims. it isn't even possible to give exact numbers of the women who feel victim to the witch hunts, let alone the numbers of gay men. another problem sure is that the concept of homosexuality wasn't that present in the 15th to 17th century - therefore, the inquisitors would not have noted sexual orientation down as a reason for the conviction. anyway, i would not doubt that during the witch hunts, the communities "disposed" themselves from about everybody who fell out of the norm....
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There was no concept of homosexality at the time of the European witch hunts but people were burnt at the stake for sodomy, which was often added automatically to charges of heresy.
There's a mould that grow on rye. If memory serves, it is called ergot and indeed induces hallucinations and what was called St Vitus' Dance. Victims often died from ergot poisoning. At the time, the real cause was not known.
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I remember discussing "witch hunts" with a friend of mine, who was convinced that a lot of the older ladies who were persecuted were guilty of nothing much more than living through the menopause.
Her theory, and she was a biology teacher, so she did know something about the subject, was that an elderly lady, who lived alone, having perhaps lost her husband or partner, could suffer from depression or a loss of confidence caused by hormonal upheavals, would then not go out and about very much, perhaps let herself go a little, maybe be adopted by a cat or two, and there you have it. An old lady, a cottage a cat.................she must be a witch!
I think it kind of hangs together.
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There was no concept of homosexality at the time of the European witch hunts but people were burnt at the stake for sodomy, which was often added automatically to charges of heresy.
There's a mould that grow on rye. If memory serves, it is called ergot and indeed induces hallucinations and what was called St Vitus' Dance. Victims often died from ergot poisoning. At the time, the real cause was not known.
you are right, that fungus is called Claviceps purpurea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claviceps_purpurea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claviceps_purpurea)
The role of different kinds of poisons (ergot as well as datura and other poisonous plants etc.) in the middle ages is not completely clear. ergot has been linked to the salem witch trials, but that's only an idea, there is no historic proof of it. it is very likely, since especially during the witch hunt times in europe (which wasn't the middle ages, but between 1450 and 1750, with the climax between 1550 and 1650), ergot poisoning was a frequent occurence. but it seems those weren't the real incidents or reasons for the witch hunts - just like there was no immediate "reason" for the holocaust.
of course you're right with sodomy - it was something that was associated with the "pact with the devil". the question, though, is in how many cases it was just part of the whole "package" of accusations and where there really was evidence of homosexual practices. to me, no trial protocols or historic evidence of homosexuality being the crime a so-called "witch" was accused for, are known - of course, i'm sure i don't know all historic evidence.
that said, of course i am quite sure that homosexuals have been victims of the witch hunts, too. i'm just not sure in which ways homosexuality really was the kind of crime a "witch" would be accused of - or if they rather were accused for other things (like worshipping the devil). therefore, i believe it will be impossible to determine the numbers of homosexual victims during this dreadful period.
@ janjo: good thoughts, i've heard similar theories. there is good historic evidence that many of the witches were widows - so, yes, living alone, it seems, was something that made you suspicious... :-\
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In Geraldine Brooks' Year of Wonders, a novel set during the plague of the 1660s in England, a book with considerable historical authenticity I think, a single woman and her niece are successively accused of witchcraft and done to death in moments of crisis by their fellow villagers who they had previously often healed. The niece is also a sexually independent and active woman. The two women maintain an ancient, inherited garden of medicinal herbs.
The heroine, a yoing village widow and her employer, the minister's wife, study an ancient Latin medical text from the minister's library and study and use the preserved herbs in the dead women's hut and the plants in the herb garden to treat the villagers for various ailments. Before the onset of the plague, villagers with some money sometimes called male surgeons from the town, but they are depicted as being ineffective and concerned only with making money. The women herbalists and midwives are depicted as having more empirical, early scientific ways of thinking than the male doctors from the town. in any case, the latter are irrelevant when the plague arrives in the village whose inhabitants voluntarily quarantine themselves under the leadership of the minister. (This part of the story is documented fact.)
The heroine ends up in a city in North Africa, where she and he baby are given refuge by a Muslim doctor. (He marries her so that she can live respectably and safely in his household.) He allows her to study his Arabic medical texts and continue to develop her practice. She finds medicine as practised in the Muslim city much more advanced than in 17th century England.
The novel reflects the fact that so-called witches were often wise women who practised traditional herbal medicine and were seen as rivals by patriarchal male barber-surgeons who would hve been much less knowledgeable.
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i do agree...although i wouldn't take a historic novel as a basis for fact-finding about history. there is reasonably good documentation in a broad number of museums and archives to give a good impression about the victims.
i do agree that it was very likely that independent, strong women with knowledge about natural healing would be "suspicious" for being witches, but one has to be careful not to end up in a romantic fantasy about witches..... ;)
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^^^
IMO the lesson is that any group can be demonized unless we take care to recognize this tendency throughout history.
"Witch hunt" is the current shorthand for this phenomenon-- a clear example being McCarthyism (looking for Communists in the entertainment industry and government) and unfortunately that tradition is alive and well today.
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The write-up about Annie Proulx doesn't answer the question, WHY did she decide to donate her writings to the NY Public Library?
why not the Cheyenne, Wyoming Public Library?
Is this another path to literary immortality?
Are the manuscripts of no further use to her?
Was it just a fun thing to do, or what?
I don't understand. :-\ ???
I don't know specifically why, but I do know that in Wyoming there are many locals who do not appreciate that Annie Proulx, as an outsider, has written in what they feel is an unflattering way about their state.
When I visited Casper for a book fair a couple years ago, one of my missions was to try and find a copy of "Close Range" that had the original illustrations (the first printing.)
The library had a fund-raising sale and -- sure enough -- I found what I was looking for. The library in Casper, Wyoming, in the fall of 2006 (the same year the movie had won multiple awards and Annie Proulx was quite famous) was selling off a copy of this book without even realizing it was a collector's item.
It could be that there is no relation between these two events. It is just my observation.
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i do agree...although i wouldn't take a historic novel as a basis for fact-finding about history. there is reasonably good documentation in a broad number of museums and archives to give a good impression about the victims.
i do agree that it was very likely that independent, strong women with knowledge about natural healing would be "suspicious" for being witches, but one has to be careful not to end up in a romantic fantasy about witches..... ;)
Of course a historical novel is not a basis for fact-finding about history, but since my history books are several thousand kilometres away and the descriptions of the women in Year of Wonders echo serious historical material I studied in the past, I drew on the novel which I read recently and my generalized memory in writing my post. I don't take Year of Wonders too literally, being a novel embodying an early 21st century take on the 17th century, but I think the point of view and the chracterizations expressed in it have some validity. I think Brooks takes the historical part of her fiction seriously. She is not a mere romantic fantasist.
Indeed, anyone who is perceived as different from the mainstream and who has knowledge that others do not understand can very easily become the object of witch hunts, as we see happening all around us in various forms today raging from the various literal witch-hunts that are going on in some African countries to the demonization and de-humanization of political and social groups in our own countries.
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The write-up about Annie Proulx doesn't answer the question, WHY did she decide to donate her writings to the NY Public Library?
How does an author get his/her papers into a library's special collection? And why?
An interesting question, and it prompted me to call a public library and a university library and ask. Their answers were remarkably similar.
The second question, Why?, is easy to answer: Prestige, pure and simple. It is a given that the author be famous, and that fame accrues to the library's. In subsequent years, scholars who wish to consult the papers must come to that library (pay homage) to read them. The library's underwriters also accrue some prestige, letting their donors or taxpayers know that their money has secured something unique and valuable.
And the author is elevated to a place of honor in the literary world, now acknowledged as worthy of having their working papers (old trash?) ensconced in a respected library.
Definitely win/win.
Now about How? There is great variation, and it simply boils down to case-by-case.
It is almost always instigated by the library contacting the author (or surrogate) with the proposal. The library's choice can sometimes be obvious: the author is a hometown celebrity, for instance. Sometimes a particular library is accepted as the repository for all the authors papers in a State, simply by custom. (The University of Tennessee has the papers of James Agee, a Knoxville boy (A Death in the Family), and of Alex Haley (Roots) who spent part of his childhood in West Tennessee.)
If the author is living, the library may ask them "Have you ever thought about how you want your private papers handled posthumously?" They may not decide at the time, but the bug is planted, and sometimes reappears in the will.
There may or may not be any payment to a live author, but if the author is deceased and the papers have gone to the estate, it is common for the estate to ask a fee; i.e., the heirs want to cash in. This is common enough; libraries usually have monies set aside for acquisitions of this nature.
There have been cases when a famous person's estate deliberately set out to find a venue, the recent Martin Luther King papers project at Stanford University comes to mind.
And what about Annie Proulx?
Don't know if you ever saw it, but a few years ago she had her own website. It's gone now, but guess who copied the whole thing and has it on his (my) computer. Tee Hee.
Annie loves libraries. I mean, she really loves them. As part of her enormously intense research for any story she writes, she spends literally years combing libraries, part of her French annales literary training. She talked a lot about how she treasured them.
(She also mentioned that none of her four children had read a word she had written! Well, now they aren't going to have to haggle over those papers as part of her estate, are they?)
I am not surprised she agreed to treat with the NY Public Library, and I can see it as an act of respect and practical consideration -- that is, put her papers where they can serve the biggest audience.
Good fer ya, Annie.
~~~fia
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From today's TDS:
Matt Barber, of Liberty Counsel, told conservative website World
Net Daily: 'Anybody who is willing to make these types of comments,
and suggest it is time for acts of terrorism against Christians because
they have a disagreement with the homosexual lifestyle, we have to take
it seriously, in the wake of what we saw at Fort Hood, Texas.' "
A comment from Matt Barber's Townhall piece:
Don't push this too far, gay men. There's a reason why gay men
were brutally repressed in every society until the Western Societies
of the past 20 years -- the potential forces of violence arrayed against
you are infinitely greater than anything you can muster. Everything you
enjoy now is "dependent on the kindness of strangers" Stay tolerant to
get tolerance. You may have pushed things as far as they can go. If so,
live with it. If you break down religion you may also break down the
institutions that restrain violence being visited on you.
I guess you reap what you sow.
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This week's question:
The Bulge, in the Battle of the Bulge: If you
drew a line on a map of the German offensive,
in the winter of 1944-45, there was a "bulge" of
German troops that stuck out (on the map) in a
bulge-like shape around the Ardennes forest.
Hence, the battle of the bulge. A vicious and
uncompromising last stand for Germany and
came as somewhat of a surprise to the Americans.
As far as "What battle is better known as the
battle of the bulge" -- I thought Battle of the Bulge
is better known, because unless I look it up, I do
not really know what the name of the battle it was
a part of--unless you mean World War II of course! :)
-
P.S.: Two really excellent films that deal with this
subject are 1949's Battleground and 1992's
A Midnight Clear. The 1965 film The Battle
of the Bulge is not recommended. By the way,
Battleground can be found in both the original b&w
version and a colorized version. Since most of the
film is in snow with military uniforms providing the color,
it does not detract. (Same with The Longest Day.)
Colorization is another topic, but I have never been
one to pooh-pooh it like some have, saying it's an
abomination of someone's original work that was
not intended to be in color, etc. I just think it's a
different way to see a film. (I watched Brokeback
Mountain in black and white one night, to see what
it was like.) We ALL have the option to watch something
in black and white that was filmed in color, but not the
other way 'round. And the colorizing process--why is that
any different than redoing the sound on a film or digitalizing
the technicolor process with the use of computers? Those
aren't considered alterations to the original? For example,
the new restoration of Wizard of Oz made some scenes so
clear that the wires on the lion's tail and a couple flying scenes
were so obvious that they removed them with a computer's help.
Isn't that as blasphemous as colorization? Just querying.
I have seen episodes from the b&w season's of Bewitched
and I Dream of Jeannie, that were colorized and they are fine.
And interesting, too, if you know them in b&w. Two episodes
of I Love Lucy were colorized. Also quite interesting.
I don't suggest people run out and colorize all b&w movies,
but in some cases it is, or might be, interesting. I doubt
film noirs would be as interesting, although there are a
few that were shot in color. Sometimes it depends on the
colorizing job--choice of colors, etc. Sometimes it is bad.
Just my opinion, it's not something to get all worked up about!
So, "my" question is: "Even if you do not approve of the
notion of colorizing movies, what black and white film would
you like to see in color?"
Who knows, we might all have the computer technology to do it
ourselves some day! Heh!
My answer to the above question is: Some Like It Hot
It was originally intended to be shot in color. The reason
it was not has been stated that Jack Lemmon's make-up
kept showing up as a green color on film. (Nowadays they
would just computer correct it.) I've seen a bit of behind the
scenes film shot in color and also some photos and I would
love to see it in color because of that and because of the
original intent that it was to be filmed in color (In Marilyn's
contract it was stipulated that all her films were to be shot
in color and she had to approve/sign that Some Like It Hot
could be filmed in b&w) and also I think it lends itself to that
notion, with the lovely beach scenes and the red roofs of the
lovely Hotel Del Coronado.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inetours.com%2FSan_Diego%2FImages%2FCrndo%2FHotel-del-Coronado_5746.jpg&hash=f7944d9eef34f15ad5603e8f729a07a68d9ed188)(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aanb.org%2Fhtml%2Fen%2Farchitects_in_the_comm%2Fimages%2Fchasing%2Fchasing-marilyn.jpg&hash=8005d932171e6b040826b600b6bea7979098c546)
Or, they could do a "Wizard of Oz" notion
on it and have the first Chicago based Untouchables/gangster
style set-up be in b&w and the subsequent run to Florida change
to color.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frookery2.viary.com%2Fstoragev12%2F822500%2F822656_98c9_625x1000.jpg&hash=45a0075309a10dd71e8ae06e551ec9804f6028e8)
-
hmmm... i dunno about what would look cool in color as i don't know many old tv shows, but i watched brokeback mountain in black and white once and liked it... it had an old time western feel. :D
-
In response to the Question of the Week:
For those of us in the US, there is a WWII TV series running on The History Channel this week, called WWII in HD. The unreasonableness of the title aside, it is (so far) one of the best retrospectives I've seen, greatly emphasizing the harrowing experiences of real soldiers, sailors and airmen. There are 10 one-hour episodes, and they show two per night. Today's episodes (#5 and #6) ended with the summer of 1944, so tomorrow's episodes are almost certain to cover the Battle of the Bulge (Winter, 1944-45).
I was 12 years old then, fully involved with the war and the news of the day. I can remember the newspapers making soft references to the Nazi counterattack, making it seem like a paltry effort, of little importance. It wasn't until two months later, after the tide had turned, that the general public learned of how hugely threatening it was. Earlier, Antwerp had been taken by the Allies, and was now the main port of entry for all of our men and materiel; the thrust of the German drive was to re-take Antwerp and make it impossible for the Allies to support the huge number of men now on the continent.
That part of Belgium and the Ardennes had been thought unimportant and was occupied lightly by American forces. The secret, enormous concentration of German tanks that attacked was a total shock to Allied strategists, and the winter weather completely stopped both Allied air counter attacks and re-supply. The heroism of the Battling Bastards of Bastogne is legendary, but what really stopped the Germans was far more prosaic: they ran out of fuel.
~~~fia
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Thanks, tellyouwhat and fia !
for the very enlightening discussions on libraries.
-Az :)
-
i've got a story to suggest for tds (hope it hasn't been online already and i missed it): i "met" the leffew family online recently, they are running a youtube program called "gay family values" where they open their doors to let people get a glimpse into the life of their family - the 2 fathers, jay ( a police officer) and bryan (sta-at-home dad), and their 2 kids, selena and daniel. i fell in love with them the moment i saw them. they are most likely the absolutely best role model for gay families and might enchant the forum members just as they did with me. here's some links where one can find them:
http://www.youtube.com/user/depfox
http://www.gay-family-values.com/
http://gayfamilyvalues.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/gayfamily.values?ref=name
http://friendfeed.com/gayfamilyvalues
http://twitter.com/Depfox
i'd be happy to write a short article about the, if the editors want that! :)
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When I visited Casper for a book fair a couple years ago, one of my missions was to try and find a copy of "Close Range" that had the original illustrations (the first printing.)
The library had a fund-raising sale and -- sure enough -- I found what I was looking for. The library in Casper, Wyoming, in the fall of 2006 (the same year the movie had won multiple awards and Annie Proulx was quite famous) was selling off a copy of this book without even realizing it was a collector's item.
Sounds like Annie's archives will be safer in New York.
I looked but couldn't find any comment from herother than the quote in the TDS story; if someone finds one please let me know for a follow-up. IMO she 1) was probably approached by the NYCPL rather than the other way around and 2) might have known that the future of her important papers could be uncertain in Wyoming.
-
RE: the usual hetero (?) anti-gay-steria: boy I sure am glad, as a hetero myself, that no one can accuse US of EVER turning violent where gays are concerned.
I am always struck how the words "gay" and "black" are interchangeable in these "arguments." It's that fear of the different, plus that fear that with a hated (ie, inferior) group given legitimacy, the hating group will lose its "superior" status--very chimp-like thinking.
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This week’s Question: In World War II, which battle is better known as "The Battle of the Bulge"? What was "the bulge"?
In late 1944, in the wake of the allied forces' successful D-Day invasion of Normandy, France, it seemed as if the Second World War was all but over. But on December 16, with the onset of winter, the German army launched a counteroffensive that was intended to cut through the Allied forces in a manner that would turn the tide of the war in Hitler's favor. The Ardennes Offensive, by the Germans, or more officially known as the Ardennes-Alsace campaign, is what the English-speaking public simply refer to as the Battle of the Bulge. The "bulge" refers to the initial incursion the Germans put into the Allies' line of advance.
-
In response to the Question of the Week:
[Tue, Nov 17] For those of us in the US, there is a WWII TV series running on The History Channel this week, called WWII in HD. The unreasonableness of the title aside, it is (so far) one of the best retrospectives I've seen, greatly emphasizing the harrowing experiences of real soldiers, sailors and airmen. There are 10 one-hour episodes, and they show two per night. Today's episodes (#5 and #6) ended with the summer of 1944, so tomorrow's episodes are almost certain to cover the Battle of the Bulge (Winter, 1944-45).
So much for guessing: they didn't get to BotB Wednesday night. But they did announce that the series finishes tomorrow night (Thursday), so it will have to be in there.
~~~fia
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Had a friend in college who had ther little black and white TV on one night, and "Psycho II" came on. She'd never seen it, and found it to be very gripping and faithful to the original. I wonder if the black and white helped her impression.
"A Midnight Clear" is a terrific, tragic movie, with great work from Ethan Hawke and a heartbreaking Frank Whaley. It also introduced me to Sam Phillips, who sings a haunting version of "It Came Upon A Midnight Clear" over the end credits.
Oddly, I'm not sure "Some Like It Hot" would've worked as well in color--it might've come off as garish. The black-and-white gives it an extra sheen of nostalgia.
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LOL.... what kind of vacuum? ;) >:D
Probably not a Kirby, dammitall...sigh
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
But BCJ is welcome to try out the machine anytime he wants (Ernestine Tomlin snort)
-
Jimmy, that covered wagon in Sat.'s Daily Sheet is a hoot!
Should be in a museum!
-
thanks lyle, i thought so too...! wouldn't it have been a trip if jack and ennis had a sheep wagon? it could have been FNIW and SNIW instead! ;)
-
The first Morse code message brings up an interesting
thought--that "Morse" and others would have had to come up
with the idea of the ...'s and ---'s beforehand and then people would
have to learn it before an actual demonstration could happen.
Otherwise I picture someone in a room saying
"What the heck is that beeping and tapping?"
Not sure I ever heard what the answer to this question
is, unlike the first reported telephone conversation, as
Lily Tomlin noted:
"Dr. Watson. Come here. I want you."
And Lord only knows what happened after that.
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Just a note to say I really enjoyed Martina's article in TDS!
Thank you!
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What hath God wrought. The first telegraph line was 45 miles long.
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Just a note to say I really enjoyed Martina's article in TDS!
Thank you!
so glad you enjoyed it, chuck! we hope to have more articles from her ~ look for something coming up in the future. :)
...and as a general reminder, we are still accepting submissions for "Member Profiles"... we haven't had a member profile in TDS for a while!
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Just a note to say I really enjoyed Martina's article in TDS!
Thank you!
Martina did a great job of introducing this family. :)
In fact, Jay has stirred up some smoke when openly criticizing the part of the gay community who does not care about marriage equality because they think homosexuals should not lead a “conservative” life with family and religious values. He has called the whole community to stand together and fight inequality as one.
Something that's sorely needed, IMO. Aside from controversies among LGTB people, I'd guess that people like the Leffews pose a much bigger threat to the anti-gay industry than any "radicals." The very ordinariness of their lives is a contradiction to homophobic assumptions.
-
thank you for your nice words! i guess that's why this family has impressed me so much....they are so "normal" ;)
(just to make sure: i don't have anything against any other lifestyle, i think everybody should do what makes him/ her happy ;)).
but for me, living a life that is centered around my family and friends, i of course felt an instantaneous sympathy and understanding with this family. btw., i linked our tds in facebook to show them - they sent a thank you, they liked it! :)
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btw., i linked our tds in facebook to show them - they sent a thank you, they liked it! :)
very cool, Martina! Thanks for that!
-
This week’s Question: In Alfred Hitchcock’s 1960 movie Psycho, what substance was used to simulate blood in the famous shower scene featuring Janet Leigh?
wasn't it ink from newspaper?
-
Or dark chocolate syrup?
-
I remember reading years ago, that it was indeed chocolate syrup used to simulate the blood in the shower scene.....also took over seven days to shoot the shower scene!
-
And Janet Leigh refused to let herself be photographed nude, so Hitchcock got a model for most of the body shots, carefully excising any shots of body parts that couldn't be shown during that period of time, but editing in such a way that the audience thought it saw a lot more than it did. Any censor examining the film frame by frame had to admit that everything was up to code, but Hitchcock knew that the audience would not be limited in imagination to what it actually saw.
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Of course it was chocolate syrup!! We're talking about one of my Top 3 all-time favorite movies, I'm a font of trivia about it. ;D BTW, the sound of the knife stabbing was actually taken from stabbing melons.
According to her autobiographical book "The Making of 'Psycho,'" Leigh did most of the shots in the shower, but tried to maintain her modesty when there were more than a couple of crew members present; however, during the infamous shot where the camera cuts from the drain to her eye and pulls back, she had to remain very still and not blink for almost a minute, and even though the towel slipped and she knew she was exposing herself for the crew, she still went through with it so they could get the shot. (However, in the Hitchcock trailer for the film, when he pulls back the shower curtain, the screaming woman we see for an instant is NOT Janet Leigh, but Vera Miles in a short wig.)
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This week’s Question: In Alfred Hitchcock’s 1960 movie Psycho, what substance was used to simulate blood in the famous shower scene featuring Janet Leigh?
wasn't it ink from newspaper?
You made me think of the spoof of this scene in High Anxiety
where the girl is being smacked with a newspaper and the ink
is what we see in the water instead of blood.
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Fritzkep was right on the money with this one: "What hath God wrought. The first telegraph line was 45 miles long."
Which also reminds me of this joke:
"What hath God wrought?"
God hath wrought iron.
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TDS: Saturday's Daily Sheet editor gnash has now opened his
own store, James of Silverlake (http://www.etsy.com/shop/jamesofsilverlake).
Jimmy offers "hand painted earthenware, hand built stoneware, plus fine art paintings and some miniature items too. Be sure to check back as we are adding more artwork all the time." The newest offerings are Watercolor Paintings and Studies & Drawings, "which are chock full of paintings and field studies of the California landscape."
Jimmy, there is so much beautiful stuff there!
Good luck with the venture!
I'll be linking that site to my emails!
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agreed! jimmy, those are truly pieces of art! i browsed through the page and the etsy- store....wow!!! :)
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"I didn't see it and I don't care to see it . . . If John Wayne were alive, he'd be rolling over in his grave,"
Remembering how often I read Ennis or Jack tell each other to roll over in fan fic I couldn't help but wonder if we just misunderstood Ernest Borgnine all those years... Maybe he was trying to tell us a big secret about John Wayne :D :D :D
Another thing: Poor John Wayne if he were alive and still had to roll over in his grave... :D
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Helvetia = Switzerland (my father was Swiss ;D )
ETA: the type font Helvetica was designed in Switzerland
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And Janet Leigh refused to let herself be photographed nude, so Hitchcock got a model for most of the body shots, carefully excising any shots of body parts that couldn't be shown during that period of time, but editing in such a way that the audience thought it saw a lot more than it did. Any censor examining the film frame by frame had to admit that everything was up to code, but Hitchcock knew that the audience would not be limited in imagination to what it actually saw.
Just saw this and wanted to mention that Hitchcock was clever in the way he got around the censors at the time. You weren't allowed to show an unmarried couple in an extended passionate kiss. So in Notorious, he has Ingrid Bergman and Carey Grant in a clinch but talking about a meal she was going to cook in between sighs and nuzzles. It was fairly erotic but they censors had to let it pass because the script didn't say anything explicit and they weren't quite kissing.
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Helvetia = Switzerland, of course.
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It also introduced me to Sam Phillips, who sings a haunting version of "It Came Upon A Midnight Clear" over the end credits.
I love Sam Phillips. Her album "Martinis and Bikinis" is SO Beatles-esqe. Here's a capsule review by EW magazine for the uninitiated:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,301361,00.html
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Confoederatio Helvetica, to use the full name.
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I'll join in the chorus here: Helvetia is Switzerland.
(which btw was very puzzling to me when I found out as a child, since "hell" in Swedish is "helvete" :D)
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Helvetia is also a public library in West Virginia.
The Helvetia Public Library opened as an "outpost" library in 1984 for the residents of Middle Fork District in Randolph County, West Virginia. Built to blend in with the rustic aesthetics of the little Swiss village, the library is located in the "Historic Square" which also houses the museum, log school and gazebo. We are a small library, approximately 1,000 sq-ft, but we are vital in this rural area. We have an amazing community with talented people of Swiss heritage and a huge variety of readers.
They do have "Brokeback Mountain" in their catalog, but I couldn't find "Beyond Brokeback"
http://helvetia.lib.wv.us/ (http://helvetia.lib.wv.us/)
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The town of Helvetia is one county over from Earl's cabin.
It's a neat place.
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I love Sam Phillips. Her album "Martinis and Bikinis" is SO Beatles-esqe. Here's a capsule review by EW magazine for the uninitiated:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,301361,00.html
That's my fave of hers, too. Met her doing an in-store concert/meet-and-greet, and introduced her to my partner; she was SO nice. Another plus.
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The British Museum has just launched a gay and lesbian themed web-trail through its collections (http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/themes/same-sex_desire_and_gender/introduction.aspx). Nothing Brokeback in it, but the Museum did include a still from the film in its show about ancient sex and sexuality in 2006!
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Thank you Dick. We'll get that in TDS very soon.
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And congratulations on your first post Dick :D
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Thanks for the painting of the Blue Mountains where I have lived for the last 28 years and am now leaving. The view from my house is good but not so dramatic. The hills are more gentle at my elevation. However Trollope's description
"But to look down on a place which cannot be reached, – into a valley full of trees, through which a stream runs, a green, dark, crowded valley, – and to feel that you are debarred from reaching it by sheer descent of four or five hundred feet of cliff all round, is uncommon … I never saw before so vast a gaping hole on the earth’s surface." --
is a bit dated. I have climbed down those cliffs several times in my life (there are steel ladders) As I lay gasping on the ground after the last time, about 3 years ago, I declared "never again" :)
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you are very welcome, brianr. i had no idea you lived in that area.. the blue mountains are so beautiful!
and thanks ya'll for the comments on my etsy stuff. :) :-*
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Gladiators also used shields, and some used nets with a trident.
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Never realized before reading the website of the Cowboy Church that it is actually located in Alma, Texas.
Alma is just under south of Ennis.
-
;D
Legendary dancer and actress Ginger Rogers lived in Ennis, TX for a few years in her early childhood. Today's trivia.
P.S. Her first husband's name was Jack!
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Oh wow!
All these coincidences!!!!
I'm slowly starting to believe that everything is Brokeback related!!! ;D
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Oh wow!
All these coincidences!!!!
I'm slowly starting to believe that everything is Brokeback related!!! ;D
Yes.
It was a ::) universal ::) love story.
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That's it! These two inhabitants of the planet Kuwinda, though they are obliged by biology and tradition to copulate simultaneously with six others of all six sexes, find that they love each other exclusively and will only mate with each other....
-
Study: Accurate Gaydar Is Nearly Instant
"A new study by Tufts University shows that people can
identify others' sexual orientation after looking at them
for just seconds."
Then why do we argue about it so much? :)
-
We received this from Gregory Hinton today:
---------------------------------------------------------------
I loved your recap of Out West on the site.
Below is the list of the 41 media hits from the Autry publicist for Out West including LA TIMES, VARIETY, NPR and Conan O'Brien. I hope you are pleased with the results. I will be on NPR (KPCC) again this week on Air Talk with Larry Mantle.I tape on Tuesday. I will tell you when it airs. So happy we have met.
---------------------------------------------------------------
41 media hits, plus two examples of the Autry’s Facebook page and their tweets. E-blasts were also sent by GLAAD and HRC who also posted it on their Facebook page.
Angeleno magazine editor Degen Pener has responded to our pitch for “Hidden Histories” for consideration in the May issue.
Sirius Satellite Radio Michelangelo Signorile’s national LGBT talk show, The Gist will feature an upcoming interview with Gregory Hinton. Date to be announced.
(NPR) KPCC “Air Talk” with Larry Mantle, Monday Dec. 21 with Gregory Hinton. (1:30 p.m. interview)
NBC Ch 4 Reporter Cary Berglund with Autry curator Jeffrey Richardson, Gregory Hinton and IGRA rep.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/station/as-seen-on/Gays__Lesbians_Finally_Get_Their_Due_in_a_Western_Museum_Los_Angeles.html
NPR – All Things Considered on KPCC FM –89.3 12/10 @5:40 p.m. Alex Cohen interviews Gregory Hinton in the Autry’s Imagination Gallery.
http://www.scpr.org/news/2009/12/10/out-west-series-autry-national-center/
KPFK – IMRU LGBT show, 90.7 FM. Monday, December 14, 7 – 8 p.m. Steve Pride interviewed Gregory Hinton (last 20 minutes of the one-hour show- set at 39 minutes into show time. http://archive.kpfk.org/parchive/ (http://archive.kpfk.org/parchive/)
NBC Tonight Show with Conan O’Brien. 12/14/09. Seven minutes into the monologue Conan says, "A museum in Los Angeles is putting on an exhibition called Homosexuals in the old West. I can't believe it. They're calling it 'You don't need a horse to ride.'" Audience laughs.
Variety, Ted Johnson’s Wilshire and Washington column, 12/18/09
http://www.wilshireandwashington.com/2009/12/the-brokeback-vote-reconsidered.html
Huffington Post:
Tom Gregory Brokeback Mountain Reclaims the American West (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-gregory/embrokeback-mountainem-re_b_393662.html&ct=ga&cd=sOi0v0HJoXc&usg=AFQjCNEL0xvX0qEWJEvdxejzyZi2g0TqvA)
Los Angeles Times (David Ng’s article on the Culture Monster blog and in the Calendar section:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2009/12/autry-national-center-looks-beyond-brokeback-mountain.html
'Out West' at the Autry examines the history of homosexuals and ...
Los Angeles Times - CA,USA
If "Brokeback Mountain" helped to open the frontier's closet door, the Autry is taking the next step by rummaging through the closet's contents and sharing ...
News: Dominick Dunne, Elephants, Waterworld, James Duke Mason ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.towleroad.com/2009/12/if-youve-watched-the-documentary-food-inc-youve-heard-of-monsanto--the-evil-seed-company-forcing-smaller-farmers-out-of-bus.html&ct=ga&cd=DtEggGIcFr0&usg=AFQjCNFa5-nCfYMdOm5IDjSUpiFEpXj3jw)
By Andy Towle
The L.A. Times looks at the Autry museum's current exhibition about gays and transgender people in the American West: "So far, the Autry hasn't received any complaints about the series either from the public or internally, according to museum leaders. One trustee they wouldn't name voiced concern that the program might portray conservatives as bigots in the vein of the character played by Randy Quaid in 'Brokeback Mountain.'" Posted 2:49 PM EST by Andy Towle in Andrew ...
Towleroad News #gay - http://www.towleroad.com/
LA Museum revisits Brokeback :: EDGE Los Angeles
(http://www.towleroad.com/)
The Autry National Center, the first major American museum to recognize the ... he shirts from Brokeback Mountain are on display at the nearby Autry Museum. ...
"Whatever Happened to Ennis del Mar?" panel in LA!
Dec 14, 2009 ... Re: "Whatever Happened to Ennis del Mar?" panel in LA! « Reply #60 on: December 11, ... The 'Out West' Series at the Autry National Center ...
Patricia Nell Warren’s piece in The Bilerico Project:
http://www.bilerico.com/2009/12/out_west_event_at_the_autry_its_my_history_too.php
According to Patricia Nell Warren, Now that Rex Wockner has found out about "Out West," EVERYBODY will hear about it. He has probably the biggest, most diverse personal news-list in the LGBT world. Rex sent out the following email:
From: wockner@panix.com
Sent: 12/15/2009 3:05:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time
Subj: NC25647: So you like gay cowboys...?
L.A. Times
15 Dec 09
'Out West' at the Autry examines the history of homosexuals and transgender
people in the Old West
Museum officials say the series may be the first of its kind.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/arts/la-et-out-west15-2009dec15,0,2323794.story
http://www.examiner.com/x-25267-Anaheim-Cultural-Events-Examiner~y2009m12d16-LAs-Autry-Museum-begins-Gay-Cowboy-series
LA Daybook, Dec. 13, Sunday, 2009 (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.fox11az.com/news/national/79155397.html&ct=ga&cd=77CoEFbKTN8&usg=AFQjCNEIF2Vaz37EoP3VRqRvV3Cg5ETGHw)
FOX11AZ.com - Tucson,AZ,USA
... Convention Center, 1201 S. Figueroa St., Los Angeles 3 pm GAY COWBOYS — The Autry National Center hosts the event "What Ever Happened to Ennis del Mar? ...
Get Out: LACMA's Art with the Artist, Sunset Hike, Inappropriate ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://laist.com/2009/12/13/get_out_70.php&ct=ga&cd=77CoEFbKTN8&usg=AFQjCNF4f-JpXYx3LyuIcnOsOrbrkUvomQ)
LAist - Los Angeles,CA,USA
Out West Series: What Ever Happened to Ennis del Mar? This free panel discussion program at the Autry focuses on the representation of the LGBT community in ...
http://glaadblog.org/2009/12/10/autry-national-center-holds-free-out-west-panel-sunday-december-13/
Autry National Center Holds Free “Out West” Panel Sunday, December ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.pinkbananaworld.com/content-detail.cfm%3FID%3D305358&ct=ga&cd=7hFyGijtGNs&usg=AFQjCNH6OqfZmr3nDidQLzQTdq7c5FyggA)
By glaadBLOG.org via PinkBananaWorld.com
The shirts are worn, with a slight red dust caked on the exposed areas that are not protected by the entwine, highlighting Out West's focus on the LGBT community's toil for safety and inclusion in the rural Western communities. The panel, titled after Ledger's ... Category: Entertainment, EntertainmentAutry National Center, Autry National CenterBrokeback Mountain, Brokeback MountainGregory Hinton, Gregory HintonHeath Ledger, Heath LedgerJake Gyllenhaal, Jake Gyllenhaal ...
PinkBananaWorld.com - http://www.pinkbananaworld.com/
The New Gay » The Autry Museum (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://thenewgay.net/2009/12/the-autry-museum.html&ct=ga&cd=l2VQzGGW5ck&usg=AFQjCNGHRLmZgMzdCnUWBLVVgZoBVi3xOg)
By raphael
In the contemporary films display, alongside the hats and holsters from ¡The Three Amigos! and outfits from a number of Clint Eastwood's recent flicks are the two iconic shirts from Brokeback Mountain. Jake Gyllenhaal's and Heath ...
The New Gay - http://thenewgay.net/
"Whatever Happened to Ennis del Mar?" panel in LA! (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php%3Ftopic%3D37874.msg554337%3Btopicseen&ct=ga&cd=LcJKUnOASsc&usg=AFQjCNFKVyqx-KxS-zPU1EnR40r7PgzlVA) (group photo of the Brokies with Tom Gregory and Gregory Hinton at Out West 12 /13/09 scroll down blog) Dec 14, 2009 ... Re: "Whatever Happened to Ennis del Mar?" panel in LA! « Reply #60 on: December 11, ... The 'Out West' Series at the Autry National Center ...
Out West Event at The Autry: "It's My History Too" | The Bilerico ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.bilerico.com/2009/12/out_west_event_at_the_autry_its_my_history_too.php&ct=ga&cd=dGgbwZ0QkdM&usg=AFQjCNGV-p-c_n32xJjcbxVMQJC5qz8Lbw)
Meanwhile, Rolling Stone has cited Brokeback Mountain among the 10 Best Films of the ... My August 2009 article on the shirts' installation at the Autry ...
WeHoNews.com: (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://wehonews.com/z/wehonews/archive/page.php%3FarticleID%3D4224&ct=ga&cd=dGgbwZ0QkdM&usg=AFQjCNGCL7OPypV-kdpsHgZ7-ZNoHl67qQ)
The shirts from Brokeback Mountain are on display at the nearby Autry Museum. ... At the installation of the iconic shirts, the Autry National Center's ...
The Gay Buzz - Robert Polzoni ran news of Out West on his SF-based blog site: http://thegaybuzz.blogspot.com/2009/12/what-ever-happened-to-ennis-del-mar.html
Howie Klein’s, Down With Tyranny blog (friend of Norman Lear, straight, political blog).
DownWithTyranny!: What Ever Happened To Ennis Del Mar? The ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2009/12/what-ever-happened-to-ennis-del-mar.html&ct=ga&cd=5zWoltNqyrA&usg=AFQjCNFZBOJ-iC5dSLDxoUL97F_el7sLnw)
By DownWithTyranny
Like a molten branding iron, the acclaimed Laramie Project and the groundbreaking Brokeback Mountain seared into the collective national consciousness the notion that it might not be so easy to be Gay in the West. ... Six months later, with Mrs. Gene Autry presiding, the Brokeback Shirts were installed in the contemporary westerns case in the gallery of imagination. At the same event, the Autry Library announced its intention to include the archives of the International ...
DownWithTyranny! - http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/
the tattler: Gene Autry Museum...Out West series to explore gay ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://ijulian.blogspot.com/2009/12/gene-autry-museumout-west-series-to.html&ct=ga&cd=RRcASrZhIxE&usg=AFQjCNFa5MZpm67o1ne85rvLcmV196Yy0g)
By Julian Ayrs
Conceived by Gregory Hinton, consulting producer for the series, Out West was inspired not only by the Autry's recent installation of the iconic shirts worn by Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal in the film Brokeback Mountain but also by ...
the tattler - http://ijulian.blogspot.com/
Gene Autry Museum…OUT WEST series to explore gay cowboys ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://julian1st.wordpress.com/2009/12/06/gene-autry-museum-out-west-series-to-explore-gay-cowboys-brokeback-mountain/&ct=ga&cd=cbHzsrigzBI&usg=AFQjCNFvjiZCWRadlAPKBp9_dS0rWUGtvA)
Dec 6, 2009 ... Panelists will also discuss Brokeback Mountain's impact as a ... At the installation of the iconic shirts, the Autry National Center 's ...
Twitter / Autry Nat'l Center: Come to "Out West: What Ev ...
Come to "Out West: What Ever Happened to Ennis del Mar?" Sunday, December 13 from 3:00 pm to 5:00 pm. Please join... http://bit.ly/68sNwz.
ASNCAlert : Message: Multi-media artist Sandra Horse's A New Earth ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASNCAlert/message/16711&ct=ga&cd=fllw9txkH0k&usg=AFQjCNEZ4MqBAgb1Q6hhRfRJXvQGbcprsA)
Autry as part of the Nadine Carson Forum. Her most recent book, Dorothea Lange: ... Out West Series: What Ever Happened to Ennis del Mar? ...
News: Tel Aviv, Sonia Sotomayor, The Situation, Hubble's Deep ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.towleroad.com/2009/12/gy-newsgay-news.html&ct=ga&cd=fllw9txkH0k&usg=AFQjCNF3p0q4RGXvDHe5947LPJQElOjIag).
Whatever happened to Ennis Del Mar? The Autry National Center of the American West takes a look at LGBT representation in the American West at a panel ...
Los Angeles Events (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.laweekly.com/events/search/%3Fdate%3D2009-12-13&ct=ga&cd=PYll286hYyo&usg=AFQjCNEbzzcs3lOs80xXGlZcDRmFwU4oSA)
Whatever Happened to Ennis del Mar? Autry National Center, Sun., December 13, 3: 00pm ... Sun., December 13, 7:00pm-10:00pm, Venice/ Marina del Rey ...
http://laglc.convio.net/site/PageServer?pagename=OUT_on_the_Town
06 « December « 2009 « Julian Ayrs & Pop Culture
Gene Autry Museum…OUT WEST series to explore gay cowboys & Brokeback Mountain! ... “What Ever Happened to Ennis del mar?” (as seen through the eyes of the ...
http://californiastudiesblog.wordpress.com/2009/12/04/autry-launches-new-out-west-series-dec-13/
http://la10.cityspur.com/2009/11/24/out-west-series-what-ever-happened-to-ennis-del-mar/
http://www.bobbozebellart.com/blog/?p=267
http://www.americantowns.com/ca/losangeles/news/out-west-series-what-ever-happened-to-ennis-del-mar-236438
From the Brokies:
DaveCullen.com (Brokies)– initially ran press release, then captures ongoing blog with members, the Autry and Gregory Hinton http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=37309.msg1719385
Bettermost (Brokies) http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=37874.msg553149
Torchwood Forum - View topic - Brokeback Mountain (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.torchwoodforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D7%26p%3D371958&ct=ga&cd=e19PxwvkAk8&usg=AFQjCNHpFJDB8mOrJ5qNSFYVYIHWxn5eKA)
This week, the Autry National Center will explore the LGBT Community in the ... "What Ever Happened to Ennis del mar?" (as seen through the eyes of the film ...
Bermuda Rocks - From brendalana's Archives... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.bermudasucks.com/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,29/topic,3038.msg85879/topicseen,1/&ct=ga&cd=-GtzwhZixno&usg=AFQjCNHhDhPmyHS7H_J9X2JoF6PBrF4jaA).
'Out West' at the Autry examines the history of homosexuals and transgender people in the ... /2009/08/brokeback-mountain-shirts-on-display-at-autry.html >. ...
'Out West' at the Autry examines the history of homosexuals and ... (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.boxxet.com/Heath_Ledger/news:out-west-at-the-autry-examines-the-history-of-homosexuals-and-transgender/&ct=ga&cd=-GtzwhZixno&usg=AFQjCNFlCHhxP3Ioi88sDAFnUsmospJwBg)
The 'Out West' Series at the Autry National Center external link. source: 89.3 KPCC. Shirts worn by Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger in "Brokeback Mountain ...
Other bloggers picking up Tom Gregory’s Huff Po column:
Tom Gregory: Brokeback Mountain Reclaims the American West (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.tt5tt.com/vb/t204611.html&ct=ga&cd=A4lkfIpaG1s&usg=AFQjCNHruFw2g3ylibxyfGW8meHfliqUqw)
By K.7
Yes, the shirts from Brokeback Mountain are proudly on display at the Autry --That's what a progressive, modern institution of learning (a museum) does. They propel conversation and incite questions while pushing society to learn, grow, ...
توب نت - http://www.tt5tt.com/vb/
Tom Gregory: Brokeback Mountain Reclaims the American West (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://www.ma3hd.net/vb/ma3hd3/arab138878/&ct=ga&cd=A4lkfIpaG1s&usg=AFQjCNHxDUNi0vsQf-po2Sn1PyYSf525tw)
By مراسل المعهد
Tom Gregory: Brokeback Mountain Reclaims the American West - اخبار المعهد العربي. In July, at the Museum of the American West, The Autry National Center (The Autry) installed the iconic intertwined shirts from Brokeback Mountain (BBM). ...
المعهد العربي - Random... - http://www.ma3hd.net/vb/
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Then why do we argue about it so much? :)
Because the students were wrong 40 percent of the time.
Fast, but inaccurate. Musta been heterosexual students. :g
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Marsh-whorts are another name for Cranberries. Hence, the Christmas food made from them would be cranberry sauce.
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Richchan- Your Christmas tree brought tears to my eyes. That is one very special tree and I know your mom would have loved it. Thank you for sharing with us.
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Study: Accurate Gaydar Is Nearly Instant
"A new study by Tufts University shows that people can
identify others' sexual orientation after looking at them
for just seconds."
I don't get that study.....
They were right in - what - 60% of the cases??
Yeah, big deal. If they'd plain guessed it woulda been 50%.
So why the fuss??
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That Youtube video is a DELIGHT!!!!!
I have never seen it before.
Thank you so much for pointing it out!!!
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I don't get that study.....
They were right in - what - 60% of the cases??
Yeah, big deal. If they'd plain guessed it woulda been 50%.
So why the fuss??
If someone were just guessing how would it be 50%?? It's not the same as flipping a coin.
You could guess and easily be wrong 90% of time.
50% is actually a pretty high rate of accuracy.
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Well, statistics is not one of my stronger capacities LOL,
but 50 or 60% still doesn't seem a lot to me.
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That Youtube video is a DELIGHT!!!!!
I have never seen it before.
Thank you so much for pointing it out!!!
you are welcome!! i take it you mean foreverinawe's posting of the video gift, and not the youtube of faith on two legs, or lady gaga and homeless kids. :D merry christmas, sonja!
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you are welcome!! i take it you mean foreverinawe's posting of the video gift, and not the youtube of faith on two legs, or lady gaga and homeless kids. :D merry christmas, sonja!
Yes, that's exactly what I meant, Jimmy!! How did you know? ;) :D
Merry Xmas to you too (i hope it was), and a happy new year!!
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There have been six: Connery, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan, Craig, and Lazenby. Also, David Niven starred in a sendup of Casino Royale.
Call me sentimental, but Sean is still the best.
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Well, I was going to include David Niven and say seven.
I think I will stick with that.
The "OO' designates the agent has a "license to kill". They are several "OO"s and others are mentioned in the books and short stories.
Maybe the films, too, I don't know.
Connery is my favorite , I suppose, though I think Daniel Craig does a fine job in the
re-start of the franchise in "Casino Royale". He is also good in the second one, "Quantum of Solace", though the film itself ain't much.
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I didn't start seeing the James Bond films until
Moore was in them, so I don't have a particular attachment
to any of them. To me it just depends on the particular film.
The one I dislike the most is Pierce Brosnan. The guy is a
real jerk and unless he's playing a jerk I cannot watch him.
One of my favorite James Bond moments is in Goldfinger
when the bomb is counting down and he's trying to stop it,
020...017...010...009...008...and it stops at 007! Laugh out loud.
I remember on some Bond documentary it was said that it was
not written that way, while filming someone just had a light bulb
go off and said "Why don't we have it stop at 007!" And everyone
smiled and was like, yes, do it! Apparently in movie theatres it got
a huge laugh.
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There have been six: Connery, Moore, Dalton, Brosnan, Craig, and Lazenby. Also, David Niven starred in a sendup of Casino Royale.
Call me sentimental, but Sean is still the best.
I agree. The Connery films from 62-67 were the best. He was so suave, not to mention just downright hot in looks!
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I'm loving the Ocean to Outback paintings you're showing each week - this week's Sidney Nolan is wonderful.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi528.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd329%2Fsalmackenzie%2Fnolan.jpg&hash=8ed278eb2e71ac6423a59345bcced8ff70c2166e)
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glad you enjoyed the series, cally! be sure to visit the website for more paintings. one of my faves is on the nepean. (http://nga.gov.au/Exhibition/OceantoOutback/Detail.cfm?IRN=102172&BioArtistIRN=25169&)
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glad you enjoyed the series, cally! be sure to visit the website for more paintings. one of my faves is on the nepean. (http://nga.gov.au/Exhibition/OceantoOutback/Detail.cfm?IRN=102172&BioArtistIRN=25169&)
Oh yes - beautiful.
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I agree. The Connery films from 62-67 were the best. He was so suave, not to mention just downright hot in looks!
Trivia: does anyone know who played James Bond the first time? (Reword: who was the first actor to play James Bond?)
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Re TDS item about Vail: I wonder if there are any vales in Vail? I e-mailed the chamber of commerce, but to no a-VAIL. I wonder if nuns there have to take the VAIL.
Just curious (to say the least! I know...)
Mark
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Oh yes - beautiful.
A copy of 'On the Nepean' hangs in my lounge room. The location is about 20 miles away.
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I gotta say, after all this time, that it's sad that Nick and my story wasn't included in our book, 'Beyond Brokeback'.
Come January 27th we've been a couple for 4 years.
The two of us met here, in this forum.
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I know, Rob. I had hoped my story would have been included in the book, also. Maybe a volume 2, one day?
Congrats again to you and Nick. You each picked a winner.
Hugs,
Mark
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I think the softest mineral is talc and the hardest is diamond.
I don't know the scale, oh wait it's mohs?, morhs?
Something like that. Best I can do without resorting to "google'.
G
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I gotta say, after all this time, that it's sad that Nick and my story wasn't included in our book, 'Beyond Brokeback'.
Come January 27th we've been a couple for 4 years.
The two of us met here, in this forum.
There should definitely be a written account of your remarkable meeting and relationship.
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I think it was David Niven.
Talc is the softest mineral, #1 on the Mohs scale of hardness. Ennis and Jack on FNIT are up there at 10, with diamond.
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Re: The Variety ad mention in TDS
That ad is something that becomes sweeter and
more profound as the years go on. The idea behind
it couldn't have been better, a statement of generosity
in the midst of the ampas aftermath. I remember that
rainy morning I ran down to the newsstand to see that
issue and how glorious it was. Still is. Kudos to all.
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I think it was David Niven.
Talc is the softest mineral, #1 on the Mohs scale of hardness. Ennis and Jack on FNIT are up there at 10, with diamond.
I never thought of talc as being a mineral, but guess it is. Often referred to as softstone, if talc is indeed classified as a mineral, then it would be very soft. As for the hardness in the FNIT....off the chart! ;D
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Re: The Variety ad mention in TDS
That ad is something that becomes sweeter and more profound as the years go on. The idea behind it couldn't have been better, a statement of generosity in the midst of the ampas aftermath. I remember that rainy morning I ran down to the newsstand to see that
issue and how glorious it was. Still is. Kudos to all.
I was given a copy of that issue as a gift a few years ago, and it's still one of the best gifts I've ever received!
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A copy of 'On the Nepean' hangs in my lounge room. The location is about 20 miles away.
That's nice, Brian. (Think you're moving to NZ?)
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That's nice, Brian. (Think you're moving to NZ?)
Update - after my very organising sister ;D spent the day here yesterday, that picture and all my others are now stacked against the wall awaiting the removalist next Tuesday.
Thinking of you and Mr M, Cally.
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Thanks, Brian :).
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Upon reflection, I have removed my post, not to withdraw what I said, but because the forum is very important to Rob, and I do not want anything , especially things in the past, to change anything here for him.
Thanks for all those who indicated support.
Perhaps the consequent posts can be removed too.
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moderator is fact checking ^^^^ as she recalls this differently
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Yes Boo, our omission seemed to be one of the politics of personality, rather than an oversight. The same holds true of the other relationship that was prominent in the early months of the forum that of Heidi and Carol (the imjackshesennis/imennisshesjack twins), who are still fine and happy for all those that are interested.
Both relationships were all over the forum at the time of the books creation, but not a mention was to be found in the literary tome.
I think along with John and Chuck (atruant and wanderer) we are the longest lasting product of the forum. I seem to remember that when we met with them last year, I think we were maybe a month or so ahead of them - but I can't really remember.
Although I was miffed at the omission at the time (as were Heidi and Carol), I hadn't really thought about it until your post. I do not have the book, probably won't get it - I read and "enjoyed" all the tales therein as they were relayed in real-time, so to speak, so not having it doesn't detract from what I gained from the forum. However, it is an incomplete record.
That's not the way I remember it, Nick and Rob. I remember corresponding with one of you and failing to get your permission to publish your story. It was a wonderful story, even in those early days, before you had four years to your credit, and heaven knows we needed a happy story in Beyond Brokeback. It was certainly not politics nor was it an oversight. We needed permission to publish each story and we didn't get it for yours. There were many other stories we would have liked to include, but if we didn't receive written permission, we didn't publish the story. I hope you understand the need to do that.
We have had three members send us updates to their stories and they're posted in the thread called "The Rest of the Story." (http://www.davecullen.com/brokeback/book/rest_story.html) So if you'd like for members to read about your four-year story together, then send me the story and we'll be glad to post it there. I'm sure there would be many members interested in knowing how it all started.
- Lydia
(By the way, for those who weren't around then, I was managing editor of the book project.)
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Heidi and Carol's story is in the book. Page 45.
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Upon reflection, I have removed my post, not to withdraw what I said, but because the forum is very important to Rob, and I do not want anything , especially things in the past, to change anything here for him.
Thanks for all those who indicated support.
Perhaps the consequent posts can be removed too.
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Re TDS item about Vail: I wonder if there are any vales in Vail? I e-mailed the chamber of commerce, but to no a-VAIL. I wonder if nuns there have to take the VAIL.
Just curious (to say the least! I know...)
Mark
Quoth "Private Lives": "Certain people should be struck regularly, like gongs." ;D
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Anytime, Dean. ;)
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WHERE CAN I GET A COPY OF THE PICTURE, "POLISH ARMY AT THE BEACH" which was featured in the current Daily Sheet.
I have googled around but have been unable to find it. Does anyone know a website or a museum store that may have copies for sale ??
Thanks,
Rich
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I feel very honoured to be credited for having taught Jack and Ennis Swedish!!!
;D :-*
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Thanks so much for featuring my artwork. ;)
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You're welcome! It was difficult picking out just two items to feature from your deviantART page.
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:) Just a response from me - I'm so sad about Heath, as all of us are. Still can't believe he's not here; I know he's in Heaven, as my beloved Daddy is (I love & miss him so terribly), but I miss his just being in the world! So awfully sad and unfair. Love you, dear Heath. Your passing saddens me so much. I'll start bawling now for both of you. It never stops. :(
The drawing by Janie of The Kiss is so verygood! We really don't see their faces, but the love and emotion is so intense. I've seen many very fine drawings on-line of both Heath and Jake from BBM.
Guess I'll close for now. Bye.
p.s. "See anything interesting up there in Heaven.....?"
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TDS Question:
The first best actor oscar winner to win for playing a gay man?
Well, Charles Laughton was probably the first gay man to do it,
although I wonder about George Arliss!
As for a character, hmmm, I know the the book
of The Lost Weekend has the Ray Milland character
delve into deviancy (!) but the movie didn't. And Bing
Crosby was a catholic priest in Going My Way...
...and I personally think Ernest Borgnine was closeted
in Marty...lol...would Peter O'Toole have counted if he won
for Larry of Arabia? I'm guessing it would be William Hurt in
Kiss of the Spider Woman.
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From TDS:
Britain's Sight & Sound magazine devoted a special issue to
Brokeback Mountain as one of the decade's most significant films."
When did they do that and does anyone have it?
Can you get back issues?
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TDS Question:
The first best actor oscar winner to win for playing a gay man?
Well, Charles Laughton was probably the first gay man to do it,
although I wonder about George Arliss!
As for a character, hmmm, I know the the book
of The Lost Weekend has the Ray Milland character
delve into deviancy (!) but the movie didn't. And Bing
Crosby was a catholic priest in Going My Way...
...and I personally think Ernest Borgnine was closeted
in Marty...lol...would Peter O'Toole have counted if he won
for Larry of Arabia? I'm guessing it would be William Hurt in
Kiss of the Spider Woman.
Maybe Charlton Heston as Judah Ben-Hur in BEN-HUR. I always thought there was something between Judah and Messala (Stephen Boyd).
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So did Gore Vidal. :D
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When did they do that [Sight and Sound] and does anyone have it?
Can you get back issues?
They have a website where you can find out, at www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/
A quick Google search didn't turn up anything about the special issue, but the site does have an 'archives' section. It was probably sometime in 2006, so they might still have back issues available.
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Almost sounded like you could find out what was going on between Judah and Messala at the BFI website! :D
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So did Gore Vidal. :D
You bet.... it was one of the few parts of the movie that was even vaguely historical. The culture Messala came from wouldn't have had any problems with an 'arrangement' between him and a childhood friend as long as he did his duty via marrying and producing children. But if he'd grown up in Judea he would have known his friend would have a low startle point.
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I wondered if Dirk Bogarde was the answer for Victim or The Servant (was he playing a gay character in The Servant, or am I imagining that? It's years since I've seen it).
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He was gay in VICTIM, Des, but I've never seen THE SERVANT. I want to--I've heard he is superb in that one..
Dirk never won an Oscar though--never was nominated, which is a shame. And sad to see the death of another performer who Oscar ignored--the beautiful and talented Jean Simmons.
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RE: Answer to TDS question. I've always thought the first guy to win for acting as a gay character was T. Hanks in "Philadelphia".
Of course, Peter O'Toole certainly should have won best actor for his immortal performance as "Lawrence of Arabia", and everyone knows it. But there is so much question about the real TEL's sexuality that I don't think it should qualify here. (I've loved Peter so long, since first seeing him in LOA, that he's my unrequited love).
There's been a lot of speculation about Charlton Heston's (another favorite of mine) Judah Ben-Hur. I've read several times that director Wm. Wyler mentioned the question of a past relationship to Stephen Boyd (Messala). But he said "don't tell Chuck".
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I too have read that both William Wyler and Stephen Boyd knew that Judah Ben Hur and Boyd's character Massala were supposed to have had a homo-erotic relationship but that Charlton Heston didn't know.
If one watches the film with an eye to these things then it is also made obvious, (as the very perceptive Mr Janjo pointed out to me), that after the break up with Judah Ben Hur, Massala goes on to have a relationship with another character, Drusus, who in the later sections of the film is always at Massala's side, and is actually with him after the chariot race when he is dying a particularly bloody and grisly death.
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I'm sure for the TDS question, the answer is clear and not
debatable!
Of course, Peter O'Toole certainly should have won best actor for his immortal performance as "Lawrence of Arabia", and everyone knows it.
Kathy, I know you love Peter O'Toole and probably no one would
have quarreled with him winning for Larry, but certainly Gregory Peck
in To Kill a Mockingbird was also a worthy winner that year. It was
one of those years where it's apples/oranges.
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I too have read that both William Wyler and Stephen Boyd knew that Judah Ben Hur and Boyd's character Massala were supposed to have had a homo-erotic relationship but that Charlton Heston didn't know.
If one watches the film with an eye to these things then it is also made obvious, (as the very perceptive Mr Janjo pointed out to me), that after the break up with Judah Ben Hur, Massala goes on to have a relationship with another character, Drusus, who in the later sections of the film is always at Massala's side, and is actually with him after the chariot race when he is dying a particularly bloody and grisly death.
Yes, Mr Janjo is perceptive as is Mr atruant! Chuck was aware of the supposed homo-erotic relationship in Ben Hur, so we watched it recently and observed of what you speak.
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Yes, I'm sure Charlton knew. He wasn't stupid. And he had to have known that he had a big gay following, with those looks and that physique. He did nude modelling, played lots of shirtless roles. My gosh, look at him in only a loincloth in PLANET OF THE APES! Those big, beautiful pecs alone can make me start to shake.
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Yes, I'm sure Charlton knew. He wasn't stupid. And he had to have known that he had a big gay following, with those looks and that physique. He did nude modelling, played lots of shirtless roles. My gosh, look at him in only a loincloth in PLANET OF THE APES! Those big, beautiful pecs alone can make me start to shake.
He wasn't stupid.
Maybe he was.
Actually, in the documentary THE CELLULOID CLOSET, Gore Vidal talks
about this. He says, if I remember correctly, that the director talked about
this with Boyd, but specifically told him not to tell Heston--that he wouldn't
get it.
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I still think Heston may have known. We'll never know as Wyler, Boyd, and Heston are dead, and Vidal I think has lost it.
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:) Hi - Just a note to Lyle re my post of yesterday. We are just at opposite ends here. G. Peck won because he had been nominated 4 times before and they ("academy") (!?>!) thought it was just time to give him one. My brother went to see G. Peck when he gave a lecture about his career in CT some yrs. ago, and couldn't wait to inform me what Greg said about his win in 1963: "I really didn't think it was my best. I thought I did better work in other films (e.g. The Yearling, Cape Fear...)". So do I! Anyway, the legend LOA and Peter's performance became are classic and will always be so.
P.S. Re Chuck Heston. Perhaps he did get the lowdown about a past relationship between his Judah and S. Boyd's Messala. And, yes, Chuck was really built; he did many beefcake shots in his younger days; real handsome man.
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Yes, Mr Janjo is perceptive as is Mr atruant! Chuck was aware of the supposed homo-erotic relationship in Ben Hur, so we watched it recently and observed of what you speak.
That is so interesting. I see it as clear as day now, but I didn't before. Our husbands obviously don't miss much.
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At a VSDA convention in Washington, D.C. in 1985 I met
Charlton Heston. I was not impressed. He was like a puppet.
Had to be told everything--do this--sit here--do that--I really think
you're all giving him the benfit of the doubt. I am leaning that he
was on the dumb side. I have no reason to doubt Gore Vidal from
a 1990's documentary.
Besides, atruant misread what Janjo wrote, that she had
read Charlton didn't know, and posted that he did after that.
Janjo wrote:
I too have read that both William Wyler and Stephen Boyd knew that
Judah Ben Hur and Boyd's character Massala were supposed to have
had a homo-erotic relationship but that Charlton Heston didn't know.
atruant posted right after that:
Yes, Mr Janjo is perceptive as is Mr atruant! Chuck was
aware of the supposed homo-erotic relationship in Ben Hur, so
we watched it recently and observed of what you speak.
Just because he did beefcake doesn't mean he was cool with
anything close to gay people. His politics were far right.
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Charlton Heston used to stay at my hotel in Michigan back in them earlier days. He would stop in for a night on his way up north where he owned some property.
I only met him a couple of times, can't say anything bad about him because we only talked about what type of room he wanted.
He always paid his bill before leaving.
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Not trying to change your opinion, Kathy--both
Lawrence of Arabia and To Kill a Mockingbird are
considered great films, both upon their release
and still today. That's why I say it's apples/oranges
for that year. If Peck thinks he did better work in
Cape Fear, that may be another reason he won. It
was released the same year as To Kill a Mockingbird
so he had two performances of note in one year.
Other actors of note that year probably pulled votes
away from both of them as well, Burt Lancaster gave
one of his signature performances in Birdman of Alcatraz,
as did Jack Lemmon in Days of Wine and Roses.
Marcello Mastroianni I don't know, I have not seen
Divorce, Italian Style. I still think O'Toole should have
won for the magnificent film The Lion in Winter over
Cliff Robertson.
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Charlton Heston used to stay at my hotel in Michigan back in them earlier days. He would stop in for a night on his way up north where he owned some property.
I only met him a couple of times, can't say anything bad about him because we only talked about what type of room he wanted.
He always paid his bill before leaving.
Did he have firearms with him?
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Did he have firearms with him?
I wouldn't doubt it.
But probably not. this was in the late 80's and he flew in to Tri-City Airport and then drove to the hotel.
I'll bet he had some guns at his place up near St. Helen. It's a hunting paradise up there.
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At a VSDA convention in Washington, D.C. in 1985 I met
Charlton Heston. I was not impressed. He was like a puppet.
Had to be told everything--do this--sit here--do that--I really think
you're all giving him the benfit of the doubt. I am leaning that he
was on the dumb side. I have no reason to doubt Gore Vidal from
a 1990's documentary.
Besides, atruant misread what Janjo wrote, that she had
read Charlton didn't know, and posted that he did after that.
Janjo wrote:
atruant posted right after that:
Just because he did beefcake doesn't mean he was cool with
anything close to gay people. His politics were far right.
A misunderstanding I think Lyle. Atruant's husband is called Chuck. That was who he was referring to, not Mr Heston.
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Hi Lyle - Responding to your comments of yesterday. Well, we will NEVER agree about the best actor award in 1963. (I'll get to that later on). As for the others: J. Lemmon said in an interview, "I thought Peter O'Toole" would win; this was back in '63, after the awards; I saw the interview. I don't think B. Lancaster or M. Mastroanni were worthy at all.
As to Peter & Gregory: My beliefs are the same as written previously. LOA is a masterpiece; the 1988-89 beautiful restoration was practically a miracle, and it showed again to viewers how great Peter's performance (and the film) are and will always be. He WAS voted #1 performance of all time by Parade Magazine in 2006, you know.
I thought Cape Fear was made in 1961; don't know about the release date. Robt. Mitchum was always overlooked. I just can't agree w/the thought of to kill a mockingbird being a classic, and, well, I even thought Peck was better in his first film, Keys of the Kingdom. When my brother saw him in CT, he did mention other performances and nominations.
Yes, Peter definitely should have won for The Lion in Winter. (He portrayed Henry the 2nd twice; first in l964 in Becket). And as far as all the other eight nominations up to 2006, well that's just the rotten "academy's" just not giving him to him over & over. The "honorary" award in 2003 was just B.S. They know when he should have won - and more than once too.
I've got to say this: It is really a coincidence that my favorite before Peter was Charlton Heston! And this daily sheet response mentions Chuck so much - wow. But I always did like him; I think in The Big Country he really showed his physique and of course also in The Ten Commandments and Ben Hur. And, yes, he did a LOT of beefcake at the start of his career.
But I have to stress my original point - that Heath was robbed of best actor for BBM (too young), and of course we know BBM was -- everyone does and why. I just feel Heath, because he was just young (Jake too), was and is a comparison to Peter's situation as a young man in 1963. No matter how great their performances and films were, well to that rotten "academy", they were just too young. That's their continuing, unending stupidity.
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The Bible (or a reasonable - is that word appropriate? - facsimile thereof) appears on the Vatican flag, in front of the Pope's bonnet.
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Hi Lyle - Responding to your comments of yesterday. Well, we will NEVER agree about the best actor award in 1963.
I guess the disagreement is just that I see either of them as
a good choice, not that one should've won over the other. That's
not a bad disagreement.
I just can't agree w/the thought of to kill a mockingbird being
a classic
Both films are on AFI's list of best 100 films ever. (Even though
British films aren''t technically eligible.) Atticus Finch of To Kill a
Mockingbird was voted #1 movie hero, so there's a lot of like for
that film. I'll pose a question, would you rather O'Toole had won
for actor and To Kill a Mockingbird won Best Picture?
If we post too much more about this we're going to have to move
to the film threads!
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:) Hello Lyle: NO!! I would never have wanted Lawrence of Arabia not to be chosen best picture of 1962! It definitely deserved it, winning 7 Oscars total in Apr. 1963. (Things were different then)! I just believe that Peter deserved it as much for best actor; Lawrence really is his immortal role, although he has done many fine things since. And the director is David Lean!
As far as the AFI and their "lists" go, I'm as down on them as I am towards the "academy". They started out very well w/their "achievement awards" in 1974, (J. Cagney, J. Ford, B. Davis, etc.), and the greatest films back in 1979, but those endless "lists" of theirs are getting ridiculous. I mean, for heaven's sake enough already! Now they are busy lowering the true classics in the first 10 down to put inferior ones above them.
P.S. My brother recently refreshed my memory as to when he saw G. Peck in CT: Someone in the audience asked Gregory if he really thought his performance was better than Peter's LOA. He answered something to the effect that "Well, as a fellow Irishman (?), I wish the best to Peter O'Toole. He is great as Lawrence...that's the way things turned out".
But, Lyle, pls. remember my original thought: Just as Peter lost when he was a young man, so did Heath for his terrific role as Ennis. But there was such opposition to BBM in many ways by that "academy",
it is just a damned shame.
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If we post too much more about this we're going to have to move
to the film threads!
;)
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Well, you are going back a bit with this one.
The lyric is from a song entitled "Part of the Plan" by Dan Fogelberg from the 1975 (maybe 1974) album "Souvenirs".
The guy loved women but he didn't know "how" to love them. He was a good musician and a very good lyricist.
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Well, you are going back a bit with this one.
The lyric is from a song entitled "Part of the Plan" by Dan Fogelberg from the 1975 (maybe 1974) album "Souvenirs".
The guy loved women but he didn't know "how" to love them. He was a good musician and a very good lyricist.
Beat me to it! Yes indeed it is from Fogelberg's song "Part of the Plan"
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I had forgotten. Thanks for reminding me that I loved his music...once upon a time. :)
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Spoiler alert:
Highlight only if you want to know what I think the answers are.
#1 Scrambled eggs
#2 no one understands
#3 one foot in the grave
#4 repeat after me
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YEAH!!!! The Daily Sheet is back! Thanks everyone for all your hard work on one of my favorites to read here in the fourm
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Yes, a hearty thanks for a good read today!
Thank you, everyone!
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YEAH!!!! The Daily Sheet is back! Thanks everyone for all your hard work on one of my favorites to read here in the fourm
I second that!!
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May I third it?
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This week’s Question: Keeping in mind the ancient Olympics, what are the origins of the words "stadium" and "gymnasium"?
Well, it's only taken me the past three hours ::), but I think I have the answers:
o_er_t_o_ = painless operation
XQQQME = EXCUSE ME
yaplayrd = play in the yard
death life = life after death
bow/ bow = crossbow
cl ud = partly cloudy
thougth an = an after thought
minl'llbethereute = I'll be there in a minute
to rn = torn in half
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you did the word puzzles, charlie, but what about the stadium name? :D
yep, TDS is back, at least on a weekly basis. maybe it should be TWS... ;)
The Daily Sheet is still looking for forum members to help with production. If you'd like to help with editing or formatting, please feel free to PM. maybe we can go back to twice a week, or two editors could help compile an edition every other week.
btw, donna's great fanfic articles and reviews will continue as a monthly feature, and we look forward to more contributions from the folks at www.findingbrokeback.com
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you did the word puzzles, charlie, but what about the stadium name? :D
Oh I didn't actually answer the question! Well, lets see....gymnasium in ancient Greece was a training facility for competitors in public games. It was also a place for socializing and engaging in intellectual pursuits. The name comes from the Greek term gymnos meaning naked. Athletes competed in the nude, a practice said to encourage aesthetic appreciation of the male body and a tribute to the Gods worshiped by the ancient Greeks.
Gymnasium is a Latin and English derivative of the original Greek noun gymnasion. Gymnasion (γυμνάσιον) is derived from the common Greek adjective gymnos (γυμνός), meaning "naked", by way of the related verb gymnazein (γυμνάζειν), whose meaning is "to do physical exercise". The verb had this meaning because one undressed for exercise. Hence the noun, which appears to mean "place to be naked", means "place for physical exercise". Historically, the gymnasium was used for exercise, communal bathing, and scholarly and philosophical pursuits.
Stadium originates from the Greek word "stadion" (στάδιον), a Greek measure of length roughly 180 - 200m. The oldest known stadium is the one in Olympia, in western Peloponnese, Greece, where the Olympic Games of antiquity were held since 776 BC. Initially 'the Games' consisted of a single event, a sprint along the length of the stadium.
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YANK! opened last night.
Here is a link to the Variety review.
I think the AP review appeared in the SF Chronicle.
http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117942304.html?categoryid=33&cs=1 (http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117942304.html?categoryid=33&cs=1)
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A Portland theater company did "Bare" here last year, so I'm hoping "Yank" will be coming along sometime around 2011-2012.
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A Portland theater company did "Bare" here last year, so I'm hoping "Yank" will be coming along sometime around 2011-2012.
Short term memory issues here...
I didn't know that we're, like, neighbors, almost!
(And why is it that I can't see your avatar?)
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This week’s Question: What was unique about the Top Five spots on
the April 4th, 1964 Billboard singles chart - something that has never
yet happened again?
I don't know for sure, but it must have something to do
with the Beatles, being 1964. Maybe they occupied all
five spots?
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That is correct, Sir Lyle. Not even Madonna (or Yourdonna) has equaled this record.
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The answer to this week's question was that bank hostage thing in Sweden in 1973 brought about the term "Stockholm Syndrome"--a psychological condition in which a person taken hostage synpathizes with and/or becomes emotionally involved with his or her captors. Reminds me of the PLAYBOY cartoon where a woman says (she and a man are in bed, surrounded by guns and cash), "If I'd known being a hostage was this much fun I'd have never made such a fuss when you kidnapped me."
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I wonder what the doctors would called it had the incident happened in Lund (wherever that is--my Swedish friends will get the joke).
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Yes, it's called the Stockholm Syndrome, way to go Mark!
I remember those very dramatic days in 1973 clearly.
The hostages in the bank at Norrmalmstorg, and at the same time king Gustav VI Adolf was lying on his deathbed in his summer castle in Helsingborg.
The nation was biting its nails, collectively.
Every news broadcast included nothing but updates from the situation at Norrmalmstorg, and the latest bulletin from the court physician.
How it ended?
Well, the hostages were released (thankfully), and the king died!
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Screenwriters drop from Tucson Festival of Books lineup
Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana will not participate in this weekend's Tucson Festival of Books.
McMurtry has been in the hospital with a "cardiac event" for the past few days and is now home resting, Bill Viner, one of the festival's founders, wrote in an e-mail.
http://www.azstarnet.com/news/local/article_be225514-2d52-11df-bb8e-001cc4c002e0.html (http://www.azstarnet.com/news/local/article_be225514-2d52-11df-bb8e-001cc4c002e0.html)
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what a summer that must have been, sonja! we had our own little stockholm syndrome incident the following year, when patricia hearst was taken hostage. she later joined her captors in robbing a bank in san francisco. my friend lived across the street from her, near college avenue in berkeley. he said she always had "scary black guys" coming over to her place, and wasn't surprised that she ended up being kidnapped and held ransom. the ransom was food for the needy. it was an odd request, when you think about it. :D
stockholm syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_Syndrome_(band)) is also a rock band from athens. not in greece, but in georgia. not the european georgia, either. ;)
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what a summer that must have been, sonja! we had our own little stockholm syndrome incident the following year, when patricia hearst was taken hostage. she later joined her captors in robbing a bank in san francisco. my friend lived across the street from her, near college avenue in berkeley. he said she always had "scary black guys" coming over to her place, and wasn't surprised that she ended up being kidnapped and held ransom. the ransom was food for the needy. it was an odd request, when you think about it. :D
stockholm syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_Syndrome_(band)) is also a rock band from athens. not in greece, but in georgia. not the european georgia, either. ;)
Jimmy, I have a faint memory of that too, but don't think I understood much of it at the time.
I didn't know there was a rock band called Stockholm Syndrome! That's funny!
But OTOH, why not? There are rock bands with the oddest names imaginable, so this is just one of them! ;D
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Bolero was written by Maurice Ravel, and has the nasty habit of staying with you for hours after you've heard it. :D
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Bolero was written by Maurice Ravel, and has the nasty habit of staying with you for hours after you've heard it. :D
Thanks for setting it off, Andy! DAH da-da-da-da-da-da....
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi410.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp185%2Fsam2mol%2F_584410_torvill_dean_300_jpg_w180h1.jpg&hash=c469c66112b933f63f91eb8869a8c0c79642c5e5)
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi410.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp185%2Fsam2mol%2F_584410_torvill_dean_300_jpg_w180h1.jpg&hash=c469c66112b933f63f91eb8869a8c0c79642c5e5)
Saw that live! Our gold medal :).
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I'm replying on behalf of the amorous frogs in my pond who starred in "Croakback Mountain", the featured image this week. Thank you on behalf of them all, particularly Ennis-frog who had the broadest grin ever seen. ;)
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I'd like to hear the a Bolero verison by your frogs.
Torville & Dean, one of the things Bolero brings to mind!
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I'm replying on behalf of the amorous frogs in my pond who starred in "Croakback Mountain", the featured image this week. Thank you on behalf of them all, particularly Ennis-frog who had the broadest grin ever seen. ;)
and TDS thanks you for posting such a novel treat! :D
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and TDS thanks you for posting such a novel treat! :D
You're welcome! I'm glad it amused. They've all gone now so presumably the FNIP is over for another year. :D
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Well, Ravel of course. Almost too easy....No, OFFICIALLY too easy.
Recently watched Torville and Dean (easy enough on youtube) and
was again impressed by their atheletecism and artistry. Still beautiful
after all these years.
Call me crazy, I've always liked Ravel's signature work.
I understand 'Bolero' came about when Ravel heard someone whistling the melody
in the street from his window in a house somewhere in Spain.
Could be.
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He probably couldn't get it out of his mind, either. ;)
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He probably couldn't get it out of his mind, either. ;)
LOL
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It has to be the Kalahari Desert.
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It's the !Kung people! Pronounced (click with your :P) kung! :D
OMG! I never got one of these answers before!
What do I win?!! ::)
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Sorry news for Rufus Wainwright. My mother died in 2004. The start of the darkest days of my life...
I'd hug him if I could.
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From an article in today's TDS:
Gay men have always fetishized masculinity and seen straight guys as real guys, says Jeffrey Escoffier, the author of the book "Bigger Than Life: The History of Gay Porn Cinema from Beefcake to Hardcore" and a visiting scholar at the New York University Center for the Study of Gender and Sexuality. “It’s a marketing opportunity for producers,” he says. “A large percentage of gay men see heterosexual men as more masculine than gay men.”
There is something wrong about this whole idea that I'm not willing to take the time to think about at the moment.
According to Higgins, gay men want to see straight guys but imagine them as gay, which is partly why 90 percent of the Czech men he uses in his films are heterosexuals, or at least “that's what they like to call themselves.”
William Higgins is full of crap, so to speak. He's an old queen who still is like the guys who write ads saying they are "straight acting." The only reason this ever got to be a notion is that the more effeminate gay guys are the ones who came out or had to come out because of straight notions of what it is to be gay. The "straight acting" so to speak homos are all the ones who were passing, hiding or stayed in the closet.
In all the years I was a video buyer who also bought the x-rated videos for our customers, not ONE guy in all that time asked if any of the guys in the pornos were straight or not. This notion is from gay men of another era. Like Higgins, and from googling info on Jeffrey Escoffier, him, too.
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Also:
If you're not familiar with "Damn Yankees," we don't blame you. The successful Broadway musical, that was also made into [a] 1958 feature film, is about a middle-aged baseball fan who makes a deal with the devil to turn his favorite team's young star into home run hitting slugger. The film will have a contemporary setting and Carrey is still being eyed for the role of the devil, while Gyllenhaal will don pinstripes as the ballplayer.
...the guy who wrote this quoted article apparently isn't so familiar with Damn Yankees, either! The baseball fan who makes the deal with the devil doesn't want to turn his favorite team's star into the hero, the fan turns himself into said slugger.
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Sorry news for Rufus Wainwright. My mother died in 2004. The start of the darkest days of my life...
I'd hug him if I could.
Rob: I agree. My beloved daddy passed in Feb. 2007; seems like yesterday. I was in denial. The start of my darkest days too...
kathy :'(
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Is it the Kalahari desert?
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Yep. You beat me to it, Andy!
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Yes, I'd say Kalahari too.
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It's the !Kung people! Pronounced (click with your :P) kung! :D
OMG! I never got one of these answers before!
What do I win?!! ::)
LOL. i thought it was the koi san until i reread the question. :D
the kalahari... isn't that a new sports sedan from volkswagen?
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I really enjoy "Fun question of the week"!
The questions are diverse and always interesting!
Thanks to the TDS team for putting them together!!
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This week’s Question: There have been several discontinued Olympic sports, can you name any of them?
I know that golf was a discontinued Olympic sport, but I read
it's coming back for the London Olympics. Also, baseball,
which was an official sport since 1988 is now going to be
dis-continued for the London Olympics.
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:) Hello to TDS --
Thank you for putting a post of mine (re BBM's impact on women) in The Daily Sheet today! I can't tell you how proud and happy this makes me feel. I really do try to put my feelings into words; and I'm so happy to be here.
The photo of the DE makes me want to weep; I have it as my avatar picture!
Again, my thanks.
kathy :-*
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hi kathy, thank you for writing such heartfelt words! it makes a wonderful Post of the Day. :)
sason, your encouraging words and participation in FQOTW are appreciated, thank you. :-*
and lyle... wasn't the discus discontinued too? not to mention wrestling in the nude. :D
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:) Hello to TDS --
Thank you for putting a post of mine (re BBM's impact on women) in The Daily Sheet today! I can't tell you how proud and happy this makes me feel. I really do try to put my feelings into words; and I'm so happy to be here.
The photo of the DE makes me want to weep; I have it as my avatar picture!
Again, my thanks.
kathy :-*
That was a terrific post Kathy, As always, it came straight from the heart. :-*
Thanks to TDS for featuring my drawing. It was posted by kind permission of Sason (Sonja) and it was a real pleasure to see it here.
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Thanks to TDS for featuring my drawing. It was posted by kind permission of Sason (Sonja) and it was a real pleasure to see it here.
Yes, I agree. It was a real pleasure to see the beautiful drawing that I now own, thanks to Janie's wonderful generosity.
It made me very proud, and I had to go check that it was actually the same! :D
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The Seven Deadly (or Capital) Sins are: Envy, Pride, Greed, Sloth, Lust, Anger (sometimes called Wrath), and Gluttony.
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:) Hi gnash and janie-g --
Thx so much for your kind comments about my post. It makes me very happy. :-*
kathy
p.s. I've been wanting to send this msg. for almost a week!!
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The 7 deadly sins are: pride, covetousness, lust, anger, gluttony, envy and sloth.
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I think it is aspirin that was derived from willow leaves and bark. They were a traditional remedy.
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Yup, it's aspirin. And valerian herb is the the botanical source of the drug Valium.
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After several great years of service, Lydia has decided to retire as Administrative Director (initially called Projects Director). We will miss her, but she's done a hell of a job, tackling a long list of projects, but most importantly taking the vague idea of a book and making Beyond Brokeback into a reality. I still can't believe we published it. It would never have been possible without her.
She has also become a good friend and confidant, and I am grateful to know her. She has graciously agreed to stay on as Senior Adviser.
Linda has agreed to take her place, and will shift over a spot to take over as Administrative Director. She will be in charge of everything technical, finances, TDS, and any other non-mod items that come up from time to time (eg, the play Greg Hinton is working on. Misc stuff like that pops up unexpectedly--who knows what will be next.)
To fill Linda's shoes, Meli has agreed to come back out of retirement, to take over again as Chief Moderator.
It's nice to be working with people we all know and trust.
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Whatever their position in the admin group, I'm so grateful to y'all for the hard work you put into making this place what it is!!! :-* :-* :-*
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And thanks to the TDS team for hightlightning my post about the wedding cake decorations!!
I should have taken a pic.... but didn't have my camera with me.
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Whatever their position in the admin group, I'm so grateful to y'all for the hard work you put into making this place what it is!!! :-* :-* :-*
Ditto. Thanks to you all. :-*
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Thank you to everyone who makes this Forum possible.
Jay63
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^^^ it wouldn't be possible without members like you. :)
and thanks for reading TDS.
sonja, highlightning flat? ;) thank you for posting about what you saw in the bakery shop window. i think it's cool that the whole gay thing is becoming more casual, ya know? gay is good, that's what the children should learn as they grow. gay is good, gay is normal, and gay is understood.
i aint so sure about those damn furries, dressing up as cartoon animals when they make love.... that's not right. you could claw an eye out or something....... ::) :D
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sonja, highlightning flat? ;)
Ooops..... ;D ;D ;D
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i think it's cool that the whole gay thing is becoming more casual, ya know? gay is good, that's what the children should learn as they grow. gay is good, gay is normal, and gay is understood.
I totally agree. One important thing to teach is that less common is not the same as less normal.
A lot of things are less common; left handed, green eyed, red haired, black (in Sweden), being 100 years old..... doesn't make them less normal in any way, only less common.
furries???
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it's good to know that being gay is not common. ;)
i will let you image google furries. that's i'm gonna say about that. :D
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oh, I can google them....
but I fail to see the connection with the rest of your post, that's all... ;)
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Andy Warhol coined the phrase '15 minutes of fame'.
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Andy Warhol coined the phrase '15 minutes of fame'.
Rats!! Tony, I was just ready to post, but you beat me here. Congrats!! :D
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Just luck, Nikki. ;)
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Thae answer to the question is: lkjtp.
(That was for Jimmy!)
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Wow about We Need to Talk About Kevin becoming a movie! Dave....did you ever read the book?
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^^^
it sounds like it would be right up his alley! :D
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And for an animated movie,
We Need to Talk About Kevin Keller.
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Hasn't ARCHIE always had a gay character, i.e., Jughead?
And I must say that I have always had a crush on Reggie, oh my, that body and evil grin of his! And I always thought Jughead was kinda cute.
Sorry TDS, but putting a picture of Jake by the "Smoking Ruins Your Looks" heading sort of negates THAT topic.
Wish I knew the answer to the trivia question but I don't. Drat!
Mark
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LOL.... i guess we could have used a pic of ennis at the mail box. :D
i wasn't much into archie comics.... but i guess MOOSE would have done it for me. ::)
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Yikes! I can't believe this got through!
In the May 4th TDS, this was the Fun Question of the Week
This week’s Question: Who is recognized for coining the phrase "15 minutes of fame" (paraphrased)? This person also designed the classic Campbell's Tomato Soup label.
Children, Mr Warhol DID NOT design the classic Campbell's Tomato Soup label!
He merely reproduced it as a sample of "modern art", for which he was thoroughly reviled by art critics worldwide. The label itself had been in stores for decades prior to the event (and still is).
Warhol was only a commercial illustrator at the time, but avant-garde fans seized on the travesty and beat the drum so fiercely that an entire generation of consumers came to believe that it really was art. Nevermind that it eventually became an American icon and eventually sold for millions. That only shows the power of advertising.
Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia about Warhol:
A pivotal event was the 1964 exhibit The American Supermarket, a show held in Paul Bianchini's Upper East Side gallery. The show was presented as a typical U.S. small supermarket environment, except that everything in it – from the produce, canned goods, meat, posters on the wall, etc. – was created by six prominent pop artists of the time, among them the controversial (and like-minded) Billy Apple, Mary Inman, and Robert Watts. Warhol's painting of a can of Campbell's soup cost $1,500 while each autographed can sold for $6. The exhibit was one of the first mass events that directly confronted the general public with both pop art and the perennial question of what art is (or of what is art and what is not).
The article is at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Warhol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Warhol)
I'd have protested sooner, but I was sure someone else would not let this pass.
~~~fia
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My apologizes.
I misunderstood what I read about the Campbell label, thanks for the clarification! ;D
Dawn
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The 3 most popular languages in the world
1. Chinese (Putonghua/Mandarin)
2. English
3. Spanish
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I think I may be the nearest Brokie (about 25 miles) to the gay swans at Abbotsbury (UK) - perhaps I should go and give them my support :D.
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Geaux Sara!
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Geaux swans!
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:D those swans are beautiful.
hopefully someone will go see BBM at the Eden Court theatre!!
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"going commando" is going without underpants, the expression comes from military commandoes who, upon occasion, may consider the time it takes to put on this addtional part of the wardrobe as a life-threatening nicety that can easily be eliminated. Expediency can be a life-saver, although (despite impressions) there actually are very few life-threatening situations which could be affected by the boxers, briefs, or nothing at all dilemma some social animals face...
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Exactly Fofol! In fact I'm going 'commando' right now! LOL....... ::) :o ;D
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Forgive me if this sounds cynical but I guess Wahlberg's priest would have no objection to him doing a movie about child molestation within the Catholic Church? This article makes me wanna puke.
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Forgive me if this sounds cynical but I guess Wahlberg's priest would have no objection to him doing a movie about child molestation within the Catholic Church? This article makes me wanna puke.
:)Hi Andy: What article are you referring to - I remember posts printed about this in this forum, but can't find an article. (But I can imagine what it says - I've read before about that rotten so-called actor wahlberg and his derogatory remarks re BBM, also about his "priest" advising him against it.
WELL - thank the movie gods for that. Just the thought of him in it makes me sick to my stomach.
kathy
p.s. Your first sentence above - I feel exactly the same. What a joke those two are. >:D
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kathy, the article about Wahlberg's priest is referred to in the lower region of the current Daily Sheet.
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Thanks, Ellen.
kathy :)
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:) Hi --
I read The Daily Sheet article about no-talent jerk wahlberg. I could never stand him and of course for years now it has become greater. The article made me sick. This so-called "actor" (?) is nothing, a judgmental jerk who follows insructions always from his "priest" about roles. ??? Besides, he can't "act" his way out of a paper bag.
I remember the rotten, snide remarks he made about our beloved BBM. Well, wahlberg, you and your priest are a couple of jackasses. >:D
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Just have to mention the beautiful photo of the chocolate lab. He is adorable. Labs are the most loyal and loving breeds. This one just melts my heart. Look at his loving expression. :-*
kathy
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Exactly Fofol! In fact I'm going 'commando' right now! LOL....... ::) :o ;D
I'm nearly always commando. Who the hell needs all that material where it just gets in the way? ;D >:D ;D
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if you ever had occasion to sit on your "junk" while going commando, or getting fleshy parts caught in zippers, or other less seemly accidents more often experienced by older folks, the efficacy of undergarments might be more apparent.
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One's jewels must be regarded as semi-precious at least, Jack. :D
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I found the article about country music (and the line dancing at Woody's) rather interesting, even though the author prioritizes what country music can do for his sex life.
I remember the good ol' days when commercial radio was an AM-only medium. Back in the 60's there wasn't all that much on the radio in terms of music. And I remember my great-grandfather listening to country because he didn't like the up-and-coming Motown sound. I also remember my grandmother turning up the volume and "shush"--ing everyone whenever Charlie Pride made an appearance on one of the old variety shows that aired back in those days.
Somewhere along the way, country music faded out of the background of my life, and was replaced with other forms of music. Much more insidious than that were the messages that I got--much like Gerry Christopher Johnson--that country music was for racist rednecks. I was also fed messages that it was not the kind of music that fit an educated, urban person of any color.
Again, much like Mr. Johnson, Brokeback changed all of that for me. Gustavo Santaolalla's score utilized elements of country music, and applied them to genre of film scoring in such a masterful way that those elements were able to penetrate me on an emotional level commensurate with that of the story itself. Oddly enough, the following summer, a neighbor had moved into my apartment building. This neighbor (a young white guy) was almost instantly absorbed into my circle of friends, and hung out with us in our unofficial corner of the pool deck on weekends. "Jim" liked to listen to country music, and one day I went to the pool and it was just he and I. He had his portable stereo tuned to WXTU (Philly's country station). After I got myself settled into my deck chair, the music caught my attention. I started to have an odd, undefined emotional attraction to the music. When I asked "Jim" what station he was listening to, he apologetically said, "oh..we can listen to something else if you want." I said that he should keep it on, then I asked again what the station was. He finally answered my question and asked if I liked country music. My response was, "its OK."
Over the last 5 years, my interest in and attraction to country music has grown significantly. Not only do I still feel a connection to Brokeback when I hear it, but that connection has expanded. Now I feel like the music connects me to people that grew up and live in a very different reality than mine, but share the same humanity. And this is one of the biggest things that about Brokeback: if I look below the white, Wyoming surface of Jack & Ennis, I could see deep, fundamental elements of myself. As Johnson puts it in the article, "It dawned on me: Hicks are humans too."
Another big attraction for me is the style of vocalism in country music. Among all the other forms of contemporary popular music, country utilizes the male singer's natural voice. Much of pop music asks the male singer to do unnatural things to create affected sounds. Being an opera singer, the natural vocal style appeals to me. Like opera singers, country singers connect with the rest of the body to create a solid, earthy sound.
At this point, the radio in my car is tuned to WXTU. I visit their website and listen online when I'm alone at work. I turn it on before I go to bed at night. Recently, I contacted Andie, of the WXTU morning show Doc & Andie. I explained (briefly) that I was ready to come out of the country "closet," and was looking for a place that does country karaoke. I also told her how important I think Darius Rucker is to country music and to black children. Unfortunately, she didn't know of any places in the Philly area that did country karaoke specifically (go figure). But she did want to follow up on the urban black/country angle. She said that would be interviewing Darius that Friday, and that she wanted to know if it was OK for her to read my e-mail as part of the interview. Naturally, I consented.
The more I thought about the country color barrier, the less sense it made to me. If you listen to country music--the vocals particularly--you will hear a very close relationship to gospel music. And many musical "family trees' used in teaching the history of popular music show country on a branch that stems out of the gospel/sprituals roots. (Other branches include jazz, blues, R&B, and rock.) Moreover, much of what we call country music is the music of the American south. The roots of African-American culture are part of the broader culture of the south, and as such, black and white southerners share many common cultural elements. Closer to home, my generation was the first in my family to be born in the north. During my childhood (and still today if I'm lucky) I heard countless stories of life in the south from my relatives. So listening to the music brings back the nostalgia of sitting at my great-uncle Pete's feet listening to him tell tales about how he would get into trouble out among the pecan trees on his folks land when he was my age.
So I have come to the conclusion that country music belongs to me just as much as belongs to any redneck.
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I adore Country music and I'm from the UK. Don't line dance though. Think thats just a "step" too far for me !!
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^^^ i thought it was two steps too far.. ;) but hey.... my mom is full blooded japanese, and she loves line dancing!
milo, thanks for sharing such a wonderful post. great insights, and your contact with the radio station sounds exciting. i too enjoy the "natural" sound of the male voice, and while i am not a big country music fan by any means, i do appreciate the genre. i also love bluegrass and folk music. my dad was a country music fan, and man, was he tickled pink when he found out i bought a dwight yoakam cassette way back in the 80s. i think it was called Hillbilly Deluxe. :D
here's something interesting that dwight said, from his wikipedia page: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_Yoakam)
In one interview, Dwight explained his "hybridization" of rock and soul with country:
I was exposed to all forms of music. I liked the Stones, a lot of the Memphis and Motown stuff, I used to love Marvin Gaye's Pride and Joy-- and that's not that revealing, because it's so closely aligned in an emotional sense with rural white music. It comes from rural black music, and they both started as an articulation of working people's emotions. And I always loved Smokey Robinson's stuff; I was a huge Wilson Picket fan..
music brings people and cultures together in wonderful ways... i gotta admit that brokeback mountain was key in getting me back into the country groove. since then, i have been listening to nickel creek and donna the buffalo (okay, more bluegrass maybe) and other bands i might have overlooked completely.
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Milo and Jimmy, interesting stuff. Brokeback did something I never expected for me musically too. As a child my parents listened to a lot of country and folk music. I adored always the folk music, particularly the real traditional British and Irish kind, the more basic, unnaccompanied etc the better. I still do. The country? I hated it. I always said I liked all music except country and wetern. I would cross the street to avoid hearing it.
But.......... Brokeback Mountain later, do you know a lot of it is very good.
I don't hate it at all now.
Just another fundamental change brought about by our favourite film.
By the way, Milo, I see a real connection between folk singing and really good classical singing. The direct communication between singer and audience on an emotional level seems to me to be very similar.
There is not much difference for instance between a traditional unnaccompanied ballad say, and German lieder, for my money, other than vocal technique.
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music brings people and cultures together in wonderful ways... i gotta admit that brokeback mountain was key in getting me back into the country groove. since then, i have been listening to nickel creek and donna the buffalo (okay, more bluegrass maybe) and other bands i might have overlooked completely.
Country music is very, very popular among Australian Aboriginal people. And Aboriginal people have written great songs like 'My Brown Skin Baby They Take'im Away' about mixed-blood children being stolen from their Aboriginal parents to be brought up away from their Aboriginal families, languages and culture in government and church mission schools remote fom their parents. (This went on until the 1960s. Prime Minister Kevin Rudd mada an apology to the Stolen Generations at the first session of parliament aftr he took office.) Another hit song was 'My Island Home' which I played to my students in East Timor in 2000. They loved it.
Another wonderful song was 'From Little Things, Big Things Grow'.
There has also been a development of rock music among Aboriginal people including songs with lyrics in indigenous languages. 'Treaty" was a hit.
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By the way, Milo, I see a real connection between folk singing and really good classical singing. The direct communication between singer and audience on an emotional level seems to me to be very similar.
There is not much difference for instance between a traditional unnaccompanied ballad say, and German lieder, for my money, other than vocal technique.
I agree. There is an intimacy in the music, and often in the performance settings with both of these genres. Also, unlike opera, the lied/art song is all about the artist's ability to convey the meaning of the song, and less about vocal virtuosity.
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Country music is very, very popular among Australian Aboriginal people. And Aboriginal people have written great songs like 'My Brown Skin Baby They Take'im Away' about mixed-blood children being stolen from their Aboriginal parents to be brought up away from their Aboriginal families, languages and culture in government and church mission schools remote fom their parents. (This went on until the 1960s. Prime Minister Kevin Rudd mada an apology to the Stolen Generations at the first session of parliament aftr he took office.) Another hit song was 'My Island Home' which I played to my students in East Timor in 2000. They loved it.
Are you telling me that Aboriginies are currently writing original music in the C&W genre? That is fascinating!!
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I also enjoyed the article on country music, and much like Milo, I've reconnected (in a way) to it since Brokeback. I say "in a way" because I wasn't a big fan as a kid, but I remember a number of artists my dad listened to, so when he would drive, that's what I would hear.
At this point, the radio in my car is tuned to WXTU. I visit their website and listen online when I'm alone at work. I turn it on before I go to bed at night. Recently, I contacted Andie, of the WXTU morning show Doc & Andie. I explained (briefly) that I was ready to come out of the country "closet," and was looking for a place that does country karaoke. I also told her how important I think Darius Rucker is to country music and to black children. Unfortunately, she didn't know of any places in the Philly area that did country karaoke specifically (go figure). But she did want to follow up on the urban black/country angle. She said that would be interviewing Darius that Friday, and that she wanted to know if it was OK for her to read my e-mail as part of the interview. Naturally, I consented.
The more I thought about the country color barrier, the less sense it made to me. If you listen to country music--the vocals particularly--you will hear a very close relationship to gospel music. And many musical "family trees' used in teaching the history of popular music show country on a branch that stems out of the gospel/sprituals roots. (Other branches include jazz, blues, R&B, and rock.) Moreover, much of what we call country music is the music of the American south. The roots of African-American culture are part of the broader culture of the south, and as such, black and white southerners share many common cultural elements. Closer to home, my generation was the first in my family to be born in the north. During my childhood (and still today if I'm lucky) I heard countless stories of life in the south from my relatives. So listening to the music brings back the nostalgia of sitting at my great-uncle Pete's feet listening to him tell tales about how he would get into trouble out among the pecan trees on his folks land when he was my age.
Milo, I think it's great you mention Darius Rucker. I think he's going to break down a lot of doors for black performers of country music.
For readers who may not know, Darius Rucker was the lead singer for "Hootie & The Blowfish". Last year he released a solo CD that was country music.
His singles "Don't Think I Don't Think About It" and "It Won't Be Like This for Long" both hit #1 on the country music chart. A third single, "Alright" got to #3 on the chart.
His country CD "Learn To Live" sold over 1 million copies, and he won a Country Music Award in 2009 as best new artist.
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Are you telling me that Aboriginies are currently writing original music in the C&W genre? That is fascinating!!
I know that they listen to and play country music songs a great deal. I'm not sure how much original country music they compose. I've never been very interested in country music, but have been more open to it since I learnt how important it is to Aboriginal people and since BBM.
It's interesting. Thais have a country music genre called luk thung (child of the rice-fields) which I think has a good deal in common with American country music though it sounds nothing like it. Apparently it developed from Thai folk music mixed with elements from popular music genres from the Western world. Bands play electric guitars and electronic keyboards and some bands have a brass section. It doesn't sound like other traditional forms of Thai music and the vocal style sounds less "oriental". Luk thung is very, very popular among ordinary Thais and epecially people from the northeast, I think, less so among the urban middle classes and the elite. There are always luk thung talent competitions, outdoor concerts that combine songs and comedy - the comedy routines always have characters in drag - and ubiquitous karaoke bars feature luk thung.
There is a Buddhist temple in Suphanburi province in the central rice-growing plains north of Bangkok where there is a shrine to an immensely popular luk thung singer who died prematurely of cancer many years ago. Luk thung shows are given at temple fairs arranged by their communities, though the monks are not allowed to listen to or play music. (A film was censored a couple of years ago because of a scene where a monk character plays a guitar.)
A few years ago, someone took me to a luk thung nightclub with a big roster of singers. Lots of men invited me to dance with them. Some turned away from their female partners to dance with me for a while.
My partner is luk thung crazy, buys luk thung CDs and makes his own cover versions of the ballads to play in the car and give to friends and family. He says he finds the uptempo numbers too difficult. He also loves Western classical and choral music.
I hate most of the videos because the visuals are unrelentingly heterosexual. His brothers have some which are close to horrible hetero soft porn. But the music is very melodic and the uptemp numbers are very cheerful. Apart from the romantic stuff, there are also songs and videos which deal with rural life and problems in the northeast and the experience of rural migrant workers in Bangkok.
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Milo, I think it's great you mention Darius Rucker. I think he's going to break down a lot of doors for black performers of country music.
So do I. I'm hoping like hell that I'll have time to get to see Darius (with Brad Paisley) at the Susquehana Center in a few weeks. I think that guys like Darius say more to blacks than "you can be a country singer if you want to." I think seeing him in an "unusual" role opens up the possibility that a black person can literally do anything they want. I discovered this reality when I was a kid, and it frustrates me that there are still blacks right within earshot who don't believe it. They themselves are holding on to old barriers that now exist only in their own minds. If they see only whites doing something, they cross it off their list of things to do.
Here's an interesting article on the color divide in country music:
http://www.theroot.com/views/yee-haw-rise-black-country
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I loved that story/picture of the 'almost' riderless horse - the jockey crossing the finish line clinging to the horse's neck.
Wow. I think I'd heard or read about this before, but still it is a WOW!
Mostly I wonder what the horse was thinking all the while this was going on.
I mean, should I stop? should I go on? Should I stop? Should I go on? This can't be right. He's never done this before. WTF?//!!!
Horses are so gallant.
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Hi RW:
I love the beauty and nobility of horses. To me, the Arabian horse is the most beautiful and noble in all of history. Just think of how long and distinguished that history is. :-*
kathy
p.s. any painting or drawing of a "riderless horse" can bring me to tears.
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This week’s Question: Going by time as we know it on Earth, a year on the planet Mercury lasts 88 days, how long is a day?
Well, in case I'm horribly incorrect I won't divulge
my computations, but I tried out my math skills from
some vague recesses of past arithmetic classes, and
came up with approximately 5 hours and 45 minutes.
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It's a trick question.
Going by time as we know it on Earth, a day is 24 hours.
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smartypants. :D
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Fun Question of the Week
This week’s Question: Going by time as we know it on Earth, a year on the planet Mercury lasts 88 days, how long is a day?
Mercury takes 87.969 earth days to orbit the sun. By definition, one orbit means one year. However, in Mercury's case, TWO years (175.938 earth days) is highly significant.
Why? Because Mercury only rotates 3 times in two years. A rotation means a day (like the Earth rotates once every 24 hours). It's hard to believe, but Mercury has only three Mercury days in two Mercury years.
So one Mercury day is a third of 175.938 earth days, or 58.646 earth days.
~~~fia
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Thank you so much for putting two of my pics in TDS!!
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I'm happy to read about the book "Queer Questions Straight Talk." I am a firm believer that the only way to foster understanding between different types of people is through open dialogue. You just don't know what is bothering a person until you start talking to them.
What is interesting is that many times a straight person apologizes before they even ask their question. They think that by asking they are being offensive or homophobic. I think that sexual minorities would do themselves and heteros a big favor by helping to make it OK to ask. If people think that we will take offense or ridicule them, they won't bother to ask...and who knows what kind of messed-up stuff they might continue thinking.
Its important.
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1) The "Peanuts" character Peppermint Patty is always falling asleep in class.
2) I think Ang Lee is just wonderful!
kathy :)
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I'm happy to read about the book "Queer Questions Straight Talk." I am a firm believer that the only way to foster understanding between different types of people is through open dialogue. You just don't know what is bothering a person until you start talking to them.
What is interesting is that many times a straight person apologizes before they even ask their question. They think that by asking they are being offensive or homophobic. I think that sexual minorities would do themselves and heteros a big favor by helping to make it OK to ask. If people think that we will take offense or ridicule them, they won't bother to ask...and who knows what kind of messed-up stuff they might continue thinking.
Its important.
It's why I love the Ignorant Straight Girl thread. (The only problem is, the gay friends in my real life don't realize how knowledgeable I really am...)
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oh, the knowledge/acknowledge gap. a new age problem
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Thank you so much for putting two of my pics in TDS!!
thanks for posting such great images, sonja! you captured a part of brokeback in those shots. :-*
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I believe the award from the National Cartoonists is the Reuben. And isn't Peppermint Patty always falling asleep in class? (Closest competitor: Sally)
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you made it in just in time, mark! :D
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I would warn anyone considering reading Christopher Pullen's book 'Gay Identity New Storytelling and the Media' featured in the June 8th Daily Sheet that it is filled with academic language that renders it practically unreadable. It's a relatively short book (264 pgs) and yet it took me over a month to read it. It is so dense as to be painful. Here is an excerpt:
"From Peter Wildblood admitting his homosexual identity within the Montagu trial, to George Michael expressing his identity without shame in his response to arrest and trial, media focus has been intensely interested in homosexual social performers. Here attention is drawn to the periphery of dominant identity where homosexual identity is usually placed, and new foci reflect new visions of change for lesbians and gay men. I have argued that such potential for change is not enabled through confrontational dissident engagement, but through subversion from within. This involves the projection of recognisability and the value of citizenship: Crisp, DeGeneres and Michael appear as outsiders, but in essence they are 'intimate citizens' (Plummer, 1997, 2003). Through the display of their intimate selves, making connection to their citizenship potential, they present themselves as powerful forces for change."
If you are thinking of buying this book (from whatever source) please do yourself a favor and do a search in the book on the Amazon site (you don't need to buy it there to read excerpts) on such terms as 'performativity', 'reflexivity', 'public sphere' or 'narrative engagement' to see if you would find this to be an enjoyable read. For my part I found reading it to be a chore and that there was little payoff for this chore. It is a tedious wordy piece of puffery, in my opinion, and the reader who would buy it because of the connection to the forum should consider this piece of writing:
"Whilst the book 'Beyond Brokeback' (based on the discussion board) reveals many instances of personal live which we may verify with regards to the expression of ages, professions and locations of living, due to the casual nature of web contributions and the lack of indexical evidence we are unable in every instance to authenticate actual identity (see Turkle, 1995; Gauntlett and Horsley, 2004). Consequently my focus here is on the discursive possibilities produced, outside of needs to ascertain the actual identity of contributors. I argue that the discursive potential is enabled by the web producers and editors (such as Lydia Wells Sledge and Dave Cullen) relating the content of the original forum and that discovering the actual identity of the various contributors is less important."
Let the buyer beware!
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The book is also a bit expensive, $ 72.00 (down from $ 90.00). ^^^
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The book is also a bit expensive, $ 72.00 (down from $ 90.00). ^^^
As I said when you posted those wordy pieces online recently, they remind me of this book. And that's not a good thing.
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I would warn anyone considering reading Christopher Pullen's book 'Gay Identity New Storytelling and the Media' featured in the June 8th Daily Sheet that it is filled with academic language that renders it practically unreadable. It's a relatively short book (264 pgs) and yet it took me over a month to read it. It is so dense as to be painful.
OMG Michael, my eyes began to glaze over just reading your excerpt. Who is this guy? Is he an academic? A gay academic? My eyes began to glaze over just reading your excerpt. It is painfully dense if this is an example. And the cost -- is he being paid by the word or the syllable? At least you gave it a month! Thanks for the warning.
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He is a British academic at Bournemouth University. Here's what his bio says:
"Dr Christopher Pullen is Lecturer in Media, Gender and Performance at The Media School, Bournemouth University.
His research interests relate to the depiction of minorities within contemporary drama and performative documentary, specifically focusing on the progression of homosexual social identity.
He has published articles on gay identity and reality television. He has forthcoming publications on gay identity and French queer cinema, documentary and contemporary AIDS narratives, and the representation of non heterosexual characters in (post-war) British television drama."
http://media.bournemouth.ac.uk/people/profiles/media/chrispullen.html
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The price, btw, is due to the publication being from basically an academic press. Books of this sort get a short press run (for rather obvious reasons) and are (generally speaking) of interest only to people in their field. They have little impact or interest, in my opinion, to those of us living in the real world. Dr. Pullen does not consider himself a 'queer theorist' as such, due to differences he sees between his theories and those who hold to that name, but he certainly holds much in common with those writers and writers in critical theory in the density of his texts.
Here is a seminar series from Roehampton University where Dr. Pullen appeared (Wed. March 12th, 2008) which gives you an idea where his writing and speaking fit, academically speaking:
http://www.roehampton.ac.uk/researchcentres/segs/seminarsevents/
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OMG Michael, my eyes began to glaze over just reading your excerpt. Who is this guy? Is he an academic? A gay academic? My eyes began to glaze over just reading your excerpt. It is painfully dense if this is an example. And the cost -- is he being paid by the word or the syllable? At least you gave it a month! Thanks for the warning.
Christopher Pullen also put up a fab review of our forum's book, Beyond Brokeback, on Amazon, just to thicken the plot a little bit here.
;)
I also find a lot of the academic language of gay studies very obscure and dense. Also it changes very quickly, so if you put in the energy to learn what it means, in a year the profs may have moved on to new terminology.
Lucky we have the forum and the "ignorant straight girls" thread here for quick answers to emergency questions.
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Ellen, I don't think he's a bad guy. His heart is in the right place (although I don't agree with all of his conclusions - he's way more assimilationist than I am). His writing, on the other hand, is dense beyond belief. It's headed in the Foucault, Derrida and Lacan area (or for queer theorist readers toward Judith Butler and Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick).
And there is no doubt from the book that he's interested both in the forum (or, more accurately, what the forum was about 3-4 years ago) and the book.
But unless you're interested in going back to school (and a very dull dry mind numbing school) I do not recommend this book.
-
He is a British academic at Bournemouth University.
Oh that explains it.
Careful with the use of words like assimilationist, you'll be accused of being on the periphery of dominant identity where homosexual identity is usually placed, and where new foci reflect new visions of change for lesbians and gay men.
;D
-
Oh that explains it.
It certainly does!
kathy
-
Oh and I have to say the Brokeback at Brooklyn Bridge sounds a real treat (not to mention the start of a new tongue twister - someone should complete it!)
Shame I am 3500 miles away. I hope someone goes and takes pics.
Could it be much more iconic?
-
Careful with the use of words like assimilationist, you'll be accused of being on the periphery of dominant identity where homosexual identity is usually placed, and where new foci reflect new visions of change for lesbians and gay men.
EEEK!
But yes...periphery...that's where I'll be. Meet me there for a drink?
-
Back when I was considering reviewing Dr. Pullen's book for the forum I actually did write a little review. Here's what I came up with - it's not complete, but it'll give you an idea of what I thought:
For those of us that have spent much time reading a wide array of literature there is a moment when we stretch ourselves and try something different - whether it be a version of the Welsh 'Mabinogion' or the Irish 'Táin Bó Cúailnge' or something more modern like Comte de Lautréamont's 'Chants de Maldoror' or De Sade's '120 Days of Sodom.' Regardless of how dense and difficult these works may seem we push through to glean the kernels of wisdom or elements of beauty that may be contained therein. I found myself reflecting on these sorts of works repeatedly while reading "Gay Identity, New Storytelling and the Media" by Christopher Pullen. Pullen's book is written in a dialect of English I like to think of as 'academese' which is unrelated to the language spoken or read by the majority of the population on a daily basis. It is favored by readers of authors like Foucault, Lacan and Derrida and contains concepts like antistructure, discursive space, liminoid potential, intimate citizenship and self-reflexivity. Often while reading works of this sort I will reflect that all of the elements of a sentence are in place but somehow meaning seems to struggling mightily with the structure. For example, in his conclusion to the chapter on Commodity and Family the author says:
"The case studies reveal the progressive agency of openly gay and lesbian new storytellers, extending narratives of self-identity to wider public arenas. Debra Chasnoff, Derek Jarman and Russell T Davies construct iconic representations of family, community and partnership, forgrounding homosexual ideals. Whilst I have discussed their work within various generes, such as documentary and fiction, within film and television, I argue that their self-reflexive storytelling produces discourse beyonds the limits of form."
Which basically means that good role models from lesbian and gay writers, regardless of the media they are working in, carry over into our lives and inspire us. Fair enough - but it takes us a long while to get from the concept to the conclusion. And lurking in that paragraph the notion that there is one 'homosexual ideal' is somewhat troubling - and the sort of thing that gave me pause throughout the book. Are the construction of families - married families with children sanctified by religious institutions 'homosexual ideals'? Or do the represent the aspirations of people with particular ideologies and viewpoints which leave others out?
One basic problem that I have with the book is that that two of the primary concepts in the book - 'gay identity' and 'new storytelling' remain undefined in the work. It may seem as if I am quibbling to point this out, but the lack of a definition does have consequences. Is 'new storytelling' simply new stories that have not been told before? He does offer this:
"This chapter explores a potential framework for new storytelling within the media, revealing instances of narrative progression where gay men and lesbians reject imposed mythic identities of the past and create new, optimistic and self-focused constructions."
But again - are we rejecting imposed mythic identities - or are these 'optimistic and self-focused constructions' styles of living that support 'family, community and partnership' just another form of mythic identity - the type of of identity which (on this side of the Atlantic, at least) is couched in terms like the 'American dream' or 'American family.' Before we switch out styles of living that have served some of us well for the last few decades we should closely examine what it is we are buying into and decide whether or not these are identities we wish to incorporate into ourselves.
Throughout the book I found myself searching my internal catalog of works to make comparisons. Why is Gore Vidal used as a representative of performance and partnership instead of Gertrude Stein and Alice B. Toklas? Why is k.d. lang seen as having 'offered new visions of a confident gay and lesbian life' with the release of 'Ingenue' in 1992 – nearly a decade after the work of Bronski Beat?
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1) The White Mountains are in New Hampshire.
2) The Black Hills are in South Dakota.
(2 out of 3!)
kathy :)
p.s. the story of the adorable cat named "Brokeback" is so sad. How "people" can beat & mistreat an innocent little animal, who is just like a little child, is mean and evil.
-
Back when I was considering reviewing Dr. Pullen's book for the forum I actually did write a little review. Here's what I came up with - it's not complete, but it'll give you an idea of what I thought:
For those of us that have spent much time reading a wide array of literature there is a moment when we stretch ourselves and try something different - whether it be a version of the Welsh 'Mabinogion' or the Irish 'Táin Bó Cúailnge' or something more modern like Comte de Lautréamont's 'Chants de Maldoror' or De Sade's '120 Days of Sodom.' Regardless of how dense and difficult these works may seem we push through to glean the kernels of wisdom or elements of beauty that may be contained therein. I found myself reflecting on these sorts of works repeatedly while reading "Gay Identity, New Storytelling and the Media" by Christopher Pullen. Pullen's book is written in a dialect of English I like to think of as 'academese' which is unrelated to the language spoken or read by the majority of the population on a daily basis. It is favored by readers of authors like Foucault, Lacan and Derrida and contains concepts like antistructure, discursive space, liminoid potential, intimate citizenship and self-reflexivity. Often while reading works of this sort I will reflect that all of the elements of a sentence are in place but somehow meaning seems to struggling mightily with the structure. For example, in his conclusion to the chapter on Commodity and Family the author says:
"The case studies reveal the progressive agency of openly gay and lesbian new storytellers, extending narratives of self-identity to wider public arenas. Debra Chasnoff, Derek Jarman and Russell T Davies construct iconic representations of family, community and partnership, forgrounding homosexual ideals. Whilst I have discussed their work within various generes, such as documentary and fiction, within film and television, I argue that their self-reflexive storytelling produces discourse beyonds the limits of form."
Which basically means that good role models from lesbian and gay writers, regardless of the media they are working in, carry over into our lives and inspire us. Fair enough - but it takes us a long while to get from the concept to the conclusion. And lurking in that paragraph the notion that there is one 'homosexual ideal' is somewhat troubling - and the sort of thing that gave me pause throughout the book. Are the construction of families - married families with children sanctified by religious institutions 'homosexual ideals'? Or do the represent the aspirations of people with particular ideologies and viewpoints which leave others out?
One basic problem that I have with the book is that that two of the primary concepts in the book - 'gay identity' and 'new storytelling' remain undefined in the work. It may seem as if I am quibbling to point this out, but the lack of a definition does have consequences. Is 'new storytelling' simply new stories that have not been told before? He does offer this:
"This chapter explores a potential framework for new storytelling within the media, revealing instances of narrative progression where gay men and lesbians reject imposed mythic identities of the past and create new, optimistic and self-focused constructions."
But again - are we rejecting imposed mythic identities - or are these 'optimistic and self-focused constructions' styles of living that support 'family, community and partnership' just another form of mythic identity - the type of of identity which (on this side of the Atlantic, at least) is couched in terms like the 'American dream' or 'American family.' Before we switch out styles of living that have served some of us well for the last few decades we should closely examine what it is we are buying into and decide whether or not these are identities we wish to incorporate into ourselves.
Throughout the book I found myself searching my internal catalog of works to make comparisons. Why is Gore Vidal used as a representative of performance and partnership instead of Gertrude Stein and Alice B. Toklas? Why is k.d. lang seen as having 'offered new visions of a confident gay and lesbian life' with the release of 'Ingenue' in 1992 – nearly a decade after the work of Bronski Beat?
Hey, this is very readable.
I think you just reviewed the book.
I'm glad you shared!
(Tain Bo-- the path of cows? well clearly I haven't read that one.)
-
There are quite a few Gray Mountains, maybe the one you're referring to is the highest one at 7038' in Coconino County, Arizona? (north of Flagstaff)
Or do you mean the little molehill near San Diego where westbound I-8 climbs?
-
...
Here is a seminar series from Roehampton University where Dr. Pullen appeared (Wed. March 12th, 2008) which gives you an idea where his writing and speaking fit, academically speaking:
http://www.roehampton.ac.uk/researchcentres/segs/seminarsevents/
oh! we missed this, i think:
Wednesday 21st January 2009, 1-2pm
Rachel Ryder, PhD student in Film and Television and English Literature, School of Arts
‘One True Pairing: Slash Fiction as Romance’
i hope she mentioned jack and ennis. ::) :D
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There are quite a few Gray Mountains, maybe the one you're referring to is the highest one at 7038' in Coconino County, Arizona? (north of Flagstaff)
Or do you mean the little molehill near San Diego where westbound I-8 climbs?
AZ is the one! between you and kathy, we have our answers. :D
and apparently there are a few "black hills", some right in southern california. i did not know there was a gray mountain there too.
...and why do i get the feeling that you've actually driven up that molehill? ;)
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Now I have to go watch the beautiful "Black Hills of Dakota" number in CALAMITY JANE, my favorite musical!
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EEEK!
But yes...periphery...that's where I'll be. Meet me there for a drink?
Sure no problem. I think you will find, probably like you, I have been there all my life. In fact I think most of the forum teeters on the edge of Periphery.
(I think I have eaten crevettes in Periphery in France, or somewhere similar sounding. But I digress - it's the vodka)
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wasn't Edge of Periphery a soap opera on NBC? got cancelled because it got too racy. ::) :D
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thanks for posting such great images, sonja! you captured a part of brokeback in those shots. :-*
*blushes*
:-*
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There's also a range called "White Mountains" in beautiful, lush green eastern Arizona...
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi606.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt142%2Fazbbm%2FWhiteMTNs-SummitPan2_small.jpg&hash=d87f40829224b391eefd7e0b8d861fa9ea8307e0)
The highest peak is Mount Baldy, which is considered one of the Apache Indians' four most sacred sites in Arizona.
-Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Mountains_%28Arizona%29)
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that's a pretty picture, stan.
you were a week late in your response... but right you are, anyway ;)
and there's a mount baldy in california, too! :D
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Last week's question and answer: What it written on Ennis's trucker cap in the road worker/laying asphalt scene? Farmers State Bank, Pittsfield
Why have I never noticed that before???
A couple of years ago I found a census record for my grandfather. I never knew much about him, and neither did my mother. He died when she was about 7. We only knew that he was orphaned at 5 and ended up on one of the "Orphan Trains" out of New York.
The 1910 census shows my grandfather and his sister living in Pittsfield, IL, and his occupation is listed as a farmer.
Here's a link to the bank: http://www.farmersstate.com/about/history.php (http://www.farmersstate.com/about/history.php)
Now I'm wondering where Ennis got the hat. Pittsfield is in Illinois, about 1000 miles from Riverton. As far as I can tell there is no Pittsfield, Wyoming.
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Would that be "Honest Abe" Lincoln?
-
:) I wonder if it might be Jimmy Carter - his name is James Earl Carter, but I don't ever remember him being called "James"...
kathy :)
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:) Hello - Just a couple of comments from kathy:
1) RE: Hayward - should be tarred, feathered and driven from the U.S. The damage done by BP >:( is now overboard and impossible to imagine. All of the victims: 11 men dead, thousands of wildlife buried in the oil filth, the beautiful pristine beaches on to FL caked in oil soaked trash. The photos of that oil spilling, still spilling, and the poor little creatures covered in oil filth - I'm so furious. Oh - we must remember Hayward went to see his yacht race in England. The audacity of that condescending, superior looking, constant liar is beyond the pale.
2) RE: Overrated films - I was amazed that TDS editors would show a beautiful poster of Peter O'Toole as Lawrence of Arabia, which this blog jerk rates as "#10" :o of the "overrated" films. WHAT?? Is he crazy?? (Also, this is the only film from the early '60's that dumb jerk mentions. All of the others are quite recent). Most likely he did not even see it.
Who the hell is this guy >:( anyway - why should his "picks" be printed as gospel? Oh, of course TRASH is right at #1 and I agree wholeheartedly, but so does anyone with an ounce of sense. Noone will ever forget that this piece of Haggis trash stole Best Picture from our beloved BBM. And we are aware of how and why.
Pls. bear with me. I know I get emotional about LOA, which certainly deserves its praise as one of the greatest films of all time, with one of the greatest performances of all time. To see this dumb jerk put it on the same footing as TRASH makes me ill. Peter - at his most beautifully handsome - gives his iconic performance in this iconic film. (It should be noted that it was voted the #1 performance of all time by Parade Magazine in 2006).
Well, I know you get my point. LOA won 7 oscars in April 1963 (maybe there were better ampas members then?) including of course best picture; Peter should have won too but he was only 30 yrs. old. He lost to a sentimental favorite, but everyone thinks he won anyway. And - LOA's place in film history is always assured, as is GWTW, as one of the greatest films ever made.
kathy
p.s. The poster shown :-* is beautiful; I have it. It was created for the wonderful restoration of LOA of 1988-'89, a tremendous effort on the part of many many people.
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Last week's question and answer: What it written on Ennis's trucker cap in the road worker/laying asphalt scene? Farmers State Bank, Pittsfield
Why have I never noticed that before???
A couple of years ago I found a census record for my grandfather. I never knew much about him, and neither did my mother. He died when she was about 7. We only knew that he was orphaned at 5 and ended up on one of the "Orphan Trains" out of New York.
The 1910 census shows my grandfather and his sister living in Pittsfield, IL, and his occupation is listed as a farmer.
Here's a link to the bank: http://www.farmersstate.com/about/history.php (http://www.farmersstate.com/about/history.php)
Now I'm wondering where Ennis got the hat. Pittsfield is in Illinois, about 1000 miles from Riverton. As far as I can tell there is no Pittsfield, Wyoming.
:) Hi john - just a note from kathy:
Your story above is amazing. Talk about a coincidence - your grandfather once living in Pittsfield, IL, and Pittsfield on Ennis' cap. I watched a documentary about the "Orphan Trains" a while back. It was sad. Young children were sent from NY (orphans, foster children, sometimes even children who had parents (?) to states out west. People out west took in one of them or more, and some were treated well - others not so well.
I hope your grandfather was one of the lucky ones.
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I hope your grandfather was one of the lucky ones.
actually, no he wasn't so lucky from what I've heard. He and his sister were adopted by a family with a very abusive father.
-
I was going to say something like that, but hesitated to do so. It's not surprising. What a shame for him and those kids.
This is what was said in the documentary re "orphan trains".
kathy
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I wish I knew more about my grandfather.
Everyone who knew him is dead now, and my mother never told me much about him either because she was so young when he died.
I'm going to contact the Orphan Train Society soon to see if they might have any records.
-
BUT I do know that his real mother, Matilda Rose, is buried in Brooklyn.
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Oh - another big coincidence - your grandfather's mom's name is Matilda Rose!
Yes, do contact the orphan train society. Since he originally was from Brooklyn, I think you have a good chance to find out some information; NYC must have kept the best records, i.e. if they were really "kept". The documentary was vague at times re the fates of the children, but it is very good. I bet they'll fill you in on it. It is sad.
best,
kathy :)
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My grandfather wasn't from Brooklyn. He was born in Manhattan in 1875 in the Five Points neighborhood or what is now Chinatown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Points,_Manhattan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Points,_Manhattan)
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FFivePoints.jpg&hash=a7dcc5284866880c07e2b4e435386ca4a412c3a4)
A Five Points scene, part of a stereoview mounted on cardboard, circa 1875
Robert Dennis Collection of Stereoscopic Views, The New York Public Library
His parents are buried in Calvary Cemetery Brooklyn, NY
Here's where it gets fun.
On August 4, 1848, the new cemetery called Calvary Cemetery received its first interment, one Esther ENNIS.
:o :o ;D
http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/Cemetery/Calvary.hist.html (http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/Cemetery/Calvary.hist.html)
I am not making this shit up :D
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the Five Points neighborhood
Which is where the movie Gangs of New York takes place.
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Which is where the movie Gangs of New York takes place.
I never finished watching that movie. It just seemed a little depressing.
I don't know how long my grandfather's family lived in Five Points, but I know they moved from Five Points to the East Village sometime between 1875 and 1880.
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one Esther ENNIS.
:o :o :o
If you look for it, there are BBM references everywhere!! :)
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To bcj:
"The first interment at Calvary Cemetery - one Esther ENNIS".
This is getting more and more interesting. Truth is always stranger than fiction. :o
I hope you find out more & more re your grandfather. He must have been one of the true "orphans".
kathy
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Most fast food outlets in North America:
Subway
-
Hmmm, I would have said McDonald's. Haven't they been at it longer, with outlets just about everywhere?
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Congrats to Martina (DesertRat) and Florian on their recent wedding. ;D
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Hmmm, I would have said McDonald's. Haven't they been at it longer, with outlets just about everywhere?
Yep, McDonald's has been at it longer, but Subway surpassed them in a big way!
Interesting note about the first subway restaurant from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subway_(restaurant)):
"On the radio advertisement they had promoted the name as Pete's Submarines, which sounded like "Pizza Marines", so they changed the name to "Pete's Subs"; eventually it adopted the "Subway" name and [began] decorating the store with maps of the New York City subway system..."
Pizza marines! (Not to be confused with Marina Pizza, in San Francisco!) ;)
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Congrats to Martina (DesertRat) and Florian on their recent wedding. ;D
YES! i thought martina's wedding dress was amazingly cool. so different from what i'm used to here in the US. ...and i must say, florian looks a little like heath in Brothers Grimm in that pic! ;) :D
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squeeeeeeeeeee!
i'm in the daily sheet! :D :D :D :D
thank you!!
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YES! i thought martina's wedding dress was amazingly cool. so different from what i'm used to here in the US. ...and i must say, florian looks a little like heath in Brothers Grimm in that pic! ;) :D
thank you! i knew this dress was special from the very first moment i saw it....
and jimmy, you were right with the period style of flo's suit - it is taylored in the style lof the 1800s. :)
-
.... hey, aren't you supposed to be on your honeymoon? ;) :D
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.... hey, aren't you supposed to be on your honeymoon? ;) :D
no, we'll have a delayed honeymoon in autumn! i just started a new job and can't take off that much time immediately ;)
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thank you! i knew this dress was special from the very first moment i saw it....
and jimmy, you were right with the period style of flo's suit - it is taylored in the style lof the 1800s. :)
Congrats Martina!
I agree with Jimmy, very nice dress, fabulous costumes on both of you. :D
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Which Shirtless Guy Would You Take to a Fourth of July Beach Party?
At the end of the day on the Fourth of July, Jakey
was the winner in this POPSUGAR poll:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Ftds_shirtlessjakepoll.jpg&hash=8596fa6439199d9d548e1e9f30835c60ce9bf919)
First I would have to get invited to a beach party which I would probably decline because I burn too easily and i usually end up feeling sick.
Second, I don't know any of the guys in the poll, so I would end up going alone anyway.
-
Hm, I'd take Jake even if he were an unknown. Nice combination of hair and muscles.
The flag of Libya is a rectangle of solid green. Gaddafi wanted to purify Islam at the time, and green is the color of the prophet.
-
Re TDS story:
There's something about Jonathan Rauch's ideas that just don't sit right.
A ‘Kagan Doctrine’ on Gay Marriage
Rauch says:
She seems to be saying that protecting minority rights is the Supreme Court’s job description, but also that a civil rights claim doesn’t automatically trump majority preferences. This is something absolutists on both sides of the gay marriage debate don’t like to hear, but it has the virtue of being right.
[...]
Viewed in that light, the argument for upholding California’s gay marriage ban has merit — not because the policy is fair or wise (it isn’t) but because it represents a reasonable judgment that the people of California are entitled to make. Barring gay marriage but providing civil unions is not the balance I would choose, but it is a defensible balance to strike, one that arguably takes “a cautious approach to making such a significant change to the institution of marriage” (as the lawyers defending Proposition 8 write in one of their briefs) while going a long way toward meeting gay couples’ needs. I say this knowing how deeply it stings gay Americans to let states make invidious choices.
If Mr. Rauch was paying attention to the Prop 8 trial in California, he might have seen how that "reasonable judgment Californians were allowed to make" was based on a lot of lies and animus about gay people. It was in the trial. That is NOT reasonable. And Mr. Rauch himself is married to a gay man and he writes from some strange notion that we have to let the rest of America catch up with what he even thinks is right. What kind of courage is that? Isn't that like saying to Rosa Parks that she could sit in the front of the bus when WE feel comfortable with it. I think Martin Luther King would slap Mr. Rauch across the face (non-violently of course) if he proposed ideas like that to him in the 60's. Really, I'm at a loss for words after reading that article by so (supposedly) a learned and notable personage.
If Maggie Gallagher (from that awful NOM organization) is agreeing with you, you should really be ashamed of yourself.
Jonathan Rauch Urges Kagan to Uphold Prop 8
[Maggie Gallagher]
The column by Jonathan Rauch is a real act of integrity: How many men in a legal same-sex marriage would publicly call on the Supreme Court not to strike down Prop 8, at least not yet? He calls Prop 8 unfair and unwise policy, but a judgment the people of California are entitled to make. Rauch [...] recognizes that what he and others seek is not access to a merely legal construct, something created by government alone, but recognition by society of the value of his union as a marriage. Don’t short-circuit the conversation now taking place, he urges. On that we agree.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/ (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjI5YjY3NDg2YTAwODAzYWExNjRmYz
FmYTcxOGJkNGY=)
I am sure any minority wants to wait for their rights while everyone else catches up so they feel more comfortable about it. Tell that to civil rights activists in the 60's and woman suffragists in the last two centuries. Mr. Rauch, I rebuke you.
-
Hm, I'd take Jake even if he were an unknown. Nice combination of hair and muscles.
The flag of Libya is a rectangle of solid green. Gaddafi wanted to purify Islam at the time, and green is the color of the prophet.
flag: you are correct... you'd think it belonged to greenland!
poll: was anyone surprised that jake won? i mean, really. ::) :D
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poll: was anyone surprised that jake won? i mean, really. ::) :D
I don't know, I saw Kellan Lutz on a talk show this week and
he was quite mesmerizing...
K.Lutz!
(I know he's in those Twilight movies, but I've not seen any of those.)
-
Re TDS story:
There's something about Jonathan Rauch's ideas that just don't sit right.
This article I found does a great job of explaining the above sentiment.
This is Why They Build Courthouses
by Robert Cruickshank
http://prop8trialtracker.com (http://prop8trialtracker.com/2010/07/06/this-is-why-they-build-courthouses/)
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In response to TDS' (of July 13) question re Marilyn Monroe's last public appearance: I think it was her last day of work on SOMETHING'S GOTTA GIVE (June 1, 1962, two weeks after singing to JFK at his birthday party). But whatever...I am proud that I guessed that the silhouetted picture of the two men was Cary Grant and Randolph Scott! What a beautiful picture of them...and the other picture of them is, too. They evidently were so much in love. What a shame they couldn't have been allowed to stay together. (Yes, I know they COULD have...don't start--it's 3:30 in the morning and I'm too cranky over loss of sleep to quibble!)
Mark
-
Hi - Just got to TDS now:
1) M. Monroe died in early August, 1962. Her last public appearance was on the set of 20th Cent. Fox's Something's Gotta Give; because of her constant unprofessionalism and tardiness she was finally fired in mid-late July.
(JFK's b-day was in late May; that was when the the Madison Square Garden appearance occurred).
2) The silhouettes are of C. Grant and R. Scott. They lived together in the early '30's when both were under contract to Paramount, and many photos of them were taken "at home" and in other locations. I always thought they were both sooo handsome, very good actors too.
3) This two guy "tongue-in-cheek" video you mentioned of BBM - does it make "fun" of it? I really despise making fun/jokes about our beloved BBM. I hope this so-called video is NOT like this. And - no way are they close to good-looking in any way.
4) And Heath as The Joker. Irreplaceable, yes. Oh, how I miss him. Now I'm thinking of his and Jake's great performances in BBM. How perfect they are. :-*
kathy :)
p.s. I don't like the fact of those two guys (or anyone) making facetious "videos" about BBM. I hated it back then and I hate it now. It is such a great film and I love it so much.
-
The story on the beheading in Uganda has proved to be a hoax:
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24070
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Re: TDS question. I'm pretty sure public appearance means some kind of planned or public event
or gathering, something official, a public appearance instead of an appearance in public, so to speak,
so I don't think going to work qualifies, besides the clue is "MD" which I can't figure out how it
relates to that... A doctor's appointment? LOL!
-
Or Maryland?
-
Lyle, I thought the same thing too, so I'd guess her last public appearance (like Lucy's last public appearance--how's that for a TDS question?) was singing to JFK. Now tell me where the MD comes in.
Maryland--good one, Fritz!! ;D
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BTW, Lucy's last public appearance was not singing to JFK.
Just thought I may have some 'splainin' to do with that earlier comment......................
-
LOL, Mark!!
Glad you clarified it!!! ;) :D
-
Marilyn Monroe's last public appearance was at Dodger Stadium for a Muscular Dystrophy benefit on June 1, 1962
-
The story on the beheading in Uganda has proved to be a hoax:
http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/07/07/24070
thanks for the update, betty! i will make a note of it in TDS and link the story you provided.
-
... 3) This two guy "tongue-in-cheek" video you mentioned of BBM - does it make "fun" of it? I really despise making fun/jokes about our beloved BBM. ...
time will tell what the "shame" video with robbie williams and gary barlow will be like... i think the release date is december. hopefully it won't poke too much fun at BBM. :)
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Marilyn Monroe's last public appearance was at Dodger Stadium for a Muscular Dystrophy benefit on June 1, 1962
Thanks for that info, John! I had not known that (obviously).
Goodbye, Norma Jean...
-
(like Lucy's last public appearance--how's that for a TDS question?)
I was "AT" Lucy's last public appearance. It's a good question.
Should I answer it?
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Well, Marilyn was into baseball. Players, anyway.
Coo, coo, ca-choo...
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I was "AT" Lucy's last public appearance. It's a good question.
Should I answer it?
Let's see if it can be a TDS question first...
Hugs!
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I was "AT" Lucy's last public appearance. It's a good question.
Should I answer it?
Oh, yes, please answer it!!
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well shoot... if lyle knows the answer already, than what's the point of putting it in TDS? ;)
go ahead, lyle, i wanna hear where it was too!
maybe it was when lucy got her star on the walk of fame?
that was dennis hopper's last public appearance, right? oh shoot. another question already used up. ::)
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Sorry, Mark!
Lucy's last public appearance was at the Academy Awards in 1989 where she
was a presenter along with Bob Hope. She was in a great mood that night and
she and Bob laughed it up while presenting, I recall. (I recall Dan Quayle jokes.)
Because of a customer where I worked that let us (me and another employee)
commandeer his oscar tickets (we paid whatever the price of them were
back then) I was fortunate enough to attend! It was the year that Allan Carr
produced them and had that controversy over the "Snow White" sequence.
It was something! Walking down the red carpet. The guy I went with was a
budding photographer and brought his camera with him. When we were at
the end of the red carpet walkway and just standing there, cause he wanted to
take a picture, a security guard came over and told him that "press photographers
must remain behind the roped off area." Well, he wasn't from the press, but he
was in heaven. He stood there for two hours taking pictures up close and personal,
behind the "roped off area!" I have copies of many of them.
Some things I remember: Seeing River Phoenix, who was nominated that year,
and soon to be gone. Talking to Pedro Almodovar, who said he didn't know any
English, but introduced me to Carmen Maura. Telling Glenn Close I liked her dress
and hoped she would win. She didn't. Peeing next to Karl Malden in the rest room.
Sitting behind Lanie Kazan and Tab Hunter who came together. (Wish Tab had been
MY date!) I remember it was very hot. 90* or thereabouts. (They had the show on
a Wednesday that year, "Oscar Wednesday," trying to shake things up a bit.) Standing
outside afterwards next to Bob Hope who was chatting with people while waiting for his
limo. That year the show was at the Shrine Civic Auditorium which is in the USC, Coliseum
area of Los Angeles. (Some of Garland's A Star is Born is filmed there.) Rain Man was the
movie of the year. (Remember when everyone was decrying how few nominations there
were in the Brokeback Mountain year, which was supposed to mean no one really liked
any of the films because the most any film got was BBM with eight? No one said anything
like that in the Rain Man year, in which Rain Man was the top nominee with eight.
Biggest regret: Doris Day, who had been considering returning to show business a bit
at this time by doing the tv film of the play West Side Waltz, was scheduled to appear
on the oscars that year, but over the weekend she had cut her foot while gardening and
was unable to make it. Of course, that's the story and they're sticking to it. Maybe she
got cold feet. She didn't do that movie, either.
I was happy to see Lucille Ball in person that year...two legends, Lucy & Bob Hope!
Here's a video: Lucy & Bob Hope at the Oscars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9iPvfAtFCA
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Lucy used to get her hair
colored done at a salon across the street from Beverly Hills Porsche on Wilshire where I worked in 1980. I saw her there a couple of times.
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That's OK, Lyle--your wonderful story of Oscar night 1989 makes up for you blabbing the secret! ;)
I have read in many places how Lucy thought she was hated by the public after the twin fiascoes of MAME and LIFE WITH LUCY. How in hell she could think this I don't know. But Kaye Ballard said that Lucy was fascinating because she had a huge ego and yet was always surprised when realizing how many fans she had, and some famous ones, too, like Queen Elizabeth II. I remember the loud and long ovation Lucy and Bob Hope got on Oscar night. It was obvious that she was genuinely moved and surprised as the clapping went on and on. And then three weeks later after her heart surgery she had that week before she died where she saw via TV and papers the reports of tons of flowers and cards and letters people were sending to her and sending their love and desire for her to get well. I truly think God gave her Oscar night and that last week of life so she'd know for sure how much she meant to so many.
One of the biggest regrets of my life is never getting to meet her. I think I will one day, though. I can't wait!
And now back to watching my new LUCY SHOW: SEASON 2 DVD! Oh Lucy and Vivian Vance were magic together!
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lyle, i love your oscar night story... wow!
my friend nikki is the hugest lucille ball fan, and i remember when lucy died. omg. she was devastated. :(
lucy deserves all that applause! she really did have/does have scores of fans the world over.
and i love the story about how she could hear the radio "in her mouth" when driving out of the hollywood hills into the valley... :D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Flucy_phone.jpg&hash=b69bd7789edd0d03a175fd6b12a21a5543719cab)
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No, Jimmy--I'M the biggest Lucille Ball fan! But I'd love to meet Nikki and talk about Lucy. I cried buckets when she died. Viv, too!
Just watched six episodes of my new DVD--THE OFFICIAL SECOND SEASON of THE LUCY SHOW. Lucy and Viv--always heaven!
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and i love the story about how she could hear the radio "in her mouth" when driving out of the hollywood hills into the valley... :D
Yes, that is an odd story isn't it? Where did you hear it?
And people thought that episode of Gilligan's Island was absurd!
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I heard it in the book LUCY IN THE AFTERNOON, by Jim Brochu, now appearing in a one-man show as Zero Mostel.
(Hi, Lyle! Mwaaa!)
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I've heard that story about the radio too, but I can't remember where. It might have been on a talk show in them earlier days.
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:) Hello --
Lucy is just wonderful. But - people - please don't forget an extremely important person - Desi Arnaz!! He was one of the most innovative men (so funny too) while filming I Love Lucy and the Lucy-Desi comedy hour. The first person to use three cameras - from all angles. This was not done before.
Last weekend there was an I Love Lucy (half-hour shows) marathon. Sooo funny; could not stop laughing.
I was a child when they divorced and remember asking my mother "why did they get a divorce"? It was front page news.
I was upset; it was shocking. I have read so often that both of them bitterly regretted it to the end. And - they always, always loved each other.
kathy
(wish I had a "heart" emoticon)!
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mark, you are definitely not a bigger than nikki. trust me... let's just say she is the first black girl i know that dresses up as lucy on halloween. and her home is like a lucy museum. i think she has an i love lucy toilet paper holder. i know she has a lucy paper towel holder. :D
lyle, i heard that story from you. i'd never heard if before, but i am glad to hear that because once, when i was in bed, i heard an AM talk show. and i found that by shifting my jaw slightly i could tune it in or out and almost adjust the volume. it must have been my fillings or something. it's only done that once.... but my bf was doing watercolor out by the hayward shoreline a while ago, and there was a gate on a chain link fence that was also emitting am radio. he found that it was coming from the area of the padlock and handle. i guess it was just perfectly positioned. maybe there were salt crystals on the metal components, there were salt marshes close by.
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:) Hello --
Lucy is just wonderful. But - people - please don't forget an extremely important person - Desi Arnaz!! He was one of the most innovative men (so funny too) while filming I Love Lucy and the Lucy-Desi comedy hour. The first person to use three cameras - from all angles. This was not done before.
Last weekend there was an I Love Lucy (half-hour shows) marathon. Sooo funny; could not stop laughing.
I was a child when they divorced and remember asking my mother "why did they get a divorce"? It was front page news.
I was upset; it was shocking. I have read so often that both of them bitterly regretted it to the end. And - they always, always loved each other.
kathy
(wish I had a "heart" emoticon)!
oh, i forgot they got a divorce! i am not too big a lucy fan, though. but i know two developmentally disabled identical twins who are HUGE lucy and desi fans. they are so amazing because they've literally memorized the lines from nearly every episode. it was fun to watch the show with them. one would play lucy, the other ethel, and they would lip sync the lines perfectly, and add their own twist, usually gay and somewhat perverted. :D they were usually very creative in coming up with the ad-lib lines. instead of, "waaaah, i was baking a cake and it fell!" they might say, "waaaah, i was fucking my date and he smelled!" ...and then "ethel" would respond with the appropriate comeback. :D
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Oh, not to sound disrespecful because they are developmentally disabled, but this is so funny.
Sometimes I remember all the lines too - Lucy, Desi, Ethel and even Fred! But my favorites are when they all went to Hollywood, then Europe and met all the big stars. The one w/John Wayne is hilarious. Wm. Holden too.
kathy :)
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Well, since we’re on a Lucy roll, in Los Angeles Lucy is popping up everywhere at the moment. There was just a concert staging of a musical in the works called "Dance with Me," which is also the name of the RKO movie that Lucy and Desi met on, I think, or something like that. The plot basically concerns the meeting, courtship and marriage of Lucy & Desi. There is also a small 4 person musical playing in a theatre in Hollywood called "The Cuban and the Redhead" aka "Redhead, Cuban, Hausfrau, Husband" and is about the behind the scenes relationships of the I Love Lucy days. In addition, the El Portal Theatre in North Hollywood has just begun auditions for casting live stage versions of I Love Lucy episodes, and this has the backing of Lucie Arnaz and Laurence Luckinbill.
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Good news about the auction mess:
An auction house selling Lucille Ball memorabilia says it is returning the actress' lifetime achievement awards to her daughter.
Heritage Auction Galleries says a deal reached Saturday will return the awards to Lucie Arnaz Luckinbill, Ball's daughter with first husband Desi Arnaz.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/07/14/entertainment/e193122D88.DTL#ixzz0u6jbMmkp
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Oh, not to sound disrespecful because they are developmentally disabled, but this is so funny.
Sometimes I remember all the lines too - Lucy, Desi, Ethel and even Fred! But my favorites are when they all went to Hollywood, then Europe and met all the big stars. The one w/John Wayne is hilarious. Wm. Holden too.
kathy :)
oh no, they really are funny and they know it.... they are great guys, i love them. :)
bill holden... that was a great episode! with the nose LOL.
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Well, since we’re on a Lucy roll, in Los Angeles Lucy is popping up everywhere at the moment. There was just a concert staging of a musical in the works called "Dance with Me," which is also the name of the RKO movie that Lucy and Desi met on, I think, or something like that. The plot basically concerns the meeting, courtship and marriage of Lucy & Desi. There is also a small 4 person musical playing in a theatre in Hollywood called "The Cuban and the Redhead" aka "Redhead, Cuban, Hausfrau, Husband" and is about the behind the scenes relationships of the I Love Lucy days. In addition, the El Portal Theatre in North Hollywood has just begun auditions for casting live stage versions of I Love Lucy episodes, and this has the backing of Lucie Arnaz and Laurence Luckinbill.
:) Hi Lyle - continuing the Lucy/Desi roll:
Wasn't the movie called Too Many Girls when Lucy and Desi met? It was made in 1940; they married the same year. Desi was six yrs. younger than Lucy, but they both admitted it was a lot of love at first sight.
I'm so glad to read the information above; it is always wonderful to see anything re Lucy & Desi. I always wished they would get back together.
kathy :)
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Kathy,
They met during pre-production on TOO MANY GIRLS, but Lucy was still filming (a fight sequence with Maureen O'Hara) DANCE, GIRL, DANCE the day she met Desi.
I remember every time if I would be watching I LOVE LUCY with my grandmother and she saw L & D she'd say, "They separated, didn't they?" EVERY time, God bless her.
And God bless Miss Ball. Oh, I hope to make it to the Lucy-Desi Museum in honor of her centennial next year! And certainly hope to meet her in the afterlife.
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In response to this week's question, I think Moose's real name (no wonder he goes by Moose!) is Marmaduke Mason. And his girlfriend is Midge (last name either Klump or Klumf, I think). Moose is nice, but he's no Reggie, or even Jughead (must be their blue-black hair). ::)
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Where is the museum, Mark? In Jamestown?
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Hi, Fritz! Yep, it's there. I've never been to that part of the country so I'm doubly hoping I get to visit there.
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Kathy,
They met during pre-production on TOO MANY GIRLS, but Lucy was still filming (a fight sequence with Maureen O'Hara) DANCE, GIRL, DANCE the day she met Desi.
I remember every time if I would be watching I LOVE LUCY with my grandmother and she saw L & D she'd say, "They separated, didn't they?" EVERY time, God bless her.
And God bless Miss Ball. Oh, I hope to make it to the Lucy-Desi Museum in honor of her centennial next year! And certainly hope to meet her in the afterlife.
Hi Mark --
Thank you for the information. I appreciate it. Oh, your grandmother!
The Lucy-Desi :-* Museum - this is not the one in Jamestown, NY, is it? Where lucy was born? Or is it in CA? I'd love to see it too. I believe they both are very happy again in the afterlife because they are where they should always have been - together.
No divorce. This upset me so much when I was so young.
kathy
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In response to this week's question, I think Moose's real name (no wonder he goes by Moose!) is Marmaduke Mason. And his girlfriend is Midge (last name either Klump or Klumf, I think). Moose is nice, but he's no Reggie, or even Jughead (must be their blue-black hair).
mark, i do believe you are correct! ...and not one guess that it might have been Lyle "Moose" Ka ;)
i read somewhere that in a poll asking archie fans and readers who they felt archie andrew should marry, they voted for veronica first, then betty.
guess who came in 3rd? JUGHEAD! :D
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Lyle Moose-ka! I love it!! :D You must tell him!
I always thought that Reggie and Betty would make a good couple! They did a story on this once, where they dated awhile. He actually showed a different side with her. Archie is nowhere good enough for Betty.
And Veronica is way too stuck on herself to love anyone...
Oh well, in comic books as life so few people we think would go well together actually GET together...
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Betty!! Betty!! Betty!!
you're right, sadly -- Archie just can't appreciate Betty, more's the pity for him. >:( After all this time he deserves either Veronica or Jughead.
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I believe the Vatican is the only country in the world without coin or currency.
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Laos uses paper money, but no coins
~~~fia
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I believe the Vatican is the only country in the world without coin or currency.
the vatican does rely on euros, but apparently issues its own coins, according to their wikipedia page. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City#Economy) it looks HUGE.. showoffs.. :D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fextremecatholic.blogspot.com%2Fimages%2Fvatican-euro.jpg&hash=1ac94340e7ad7f3382e7df4cf55ef4f6a3d6e9a3)
http://extremecatholic.blogspot.com/images/vatican-euro.jpg
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Greetings:
I am Fletcher Rhoden, the writer/director, composer and lyricist of REDHEAD CUBAN HAUSFRAU HUSBAND the new musical about the making of television's greatest sitcom. I'm glad you're all showing an interest in the show, now playing at the Mt. Hollywood Theater in Los Angeles, CA. But I have to make a correction: Although the titles are similar, my REDHEAD CUBAN HAUSFRAU HUSBAND is NOT the play also known as (aka) THE CUBAN AND THE REDHEAD. That play follows the early love story of the two tv greats, ending when the tv series begins. My play follows the creation of the tv show and the arcs of the relationships of the four stars during its decade-long run. REDHEAD CUBAN HAUSFRAU HUSBAND features 12 new songs and is a 90 stage musical in two acts. We were called, "Another great night of theater in Los Angeles" and "Filled with inspiration and humor" by local and online press, plus much more! I have never seen THE CUBAN AND THE REDHEAD, although I would like to put a double-feature together for next year's Lucy centennial. Any backers out there interested?
Any fans of these tv icons should come see the show while it lasts -- must end Sept. 4!
http://www.fletcherrhoden.com/redheadcubanhausfrauhusband.htm
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Welcome to the forum Fletcher, and thank you for the information.
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^^^ i just watched the ladies man clip from "redhead cuban hausfrau husband".... derek rubiano looks quite festive, as does "husband" in his WAC uniform!
looks like a fun show! :D
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Glad you liked that clip! It is a fun show -- lots of drama, too. So here's an offer for any and all forum readers out there, MENTION THIS FORUM FOR $5 OFF THE TICKET PRICE for REDHEAD CUBAN HAUSFRAU HUSBAND, now playing through Sept. 4!
http://www.fletcherrhoden.com/redheadcubanhausfrauhusband.htm
Thanks for having me aboard!
Fletcher Rhoden
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okay, ennis del mark and kathy.... you have until sept 4th to get out here to LA to see RCHH live on stage~ ;) :D
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okay, ennis del mark and kathy.... you have until sept 4th to get out here to LA to see RCHH live on stage~ ;) :D
Hi jimmy -- ;D
What is the name of the other play that is going on now too; the one about lucy & desi before they started I Love Lucy and before the real success. (I just can't find the post that says it).
I do remember yrs. ago when they had a TV movie about her parents' marriage before I Love Lucy, which their daugher Lucie did not approve of at all. I saw it and thought it was good though, nothing negative about either of them.
kathy :-\
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H Mark -- ;D
What is the name of the other play that is going on now too; the one about lucy & desi before they started I Love Lucy and before the real success. (I just can't find the post that says it).
The Cuban and the Redhead.
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The Cuban and the Redhead.
Thx, lyle, for the answer. I'd love to see this.
kathy ;D
p.s. I first addressed my question to mark - and it is jimmy who posted. Here I am again, getting my names mixed up!
Sorry for my mistake in names - again. :">
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ai-yi-yi! so many plays, so little time!
i am con-fu-zed! :D ;)
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And now there's another one, in Azusa, called "FRED! FRED!" a look at the Mertz marriage through Ethel's eyes.
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RE: HOME PLATE: Heath LA + Skid Row Housing Trust
BayCityJohn works for the new H2Hotel in Healdsburg. Guest rooms feature Heath Tile made in Sausalito:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2F20612_h2h_model_bath_slideshow_main.jpg&hash=02e6104681deddbf3cec889536d27385ecf5e8c6)
http://www.h2hotel.com/home/ (http://www.h2hotel.com/home/)
http://www.dbarchitect.com/project_detail/109/h2hotel.html (http://www.dbarchitect.com/project_detail/109/h2hotel.html)
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Seeing RoyandRonnies article about her trip to some Brokeback film sites, let a panel of the dream slide forward, a dream I have had since seeing the film, to visit those places. From what I read here, I should make it sooner rather than later. Although the mountains themselves will most likely be there long after we are all gone. (Unless oil is discovered beneath them !)
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Charlotte, your film site piece is wonderful - felt like I was there with you folks!
Thanks for sharing...
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Regarding the question of the week, the culinary instrument is a Mexican chocolate stirrer. Forget the name, but it's probably something realted to mole (mo-lay).
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:) Hi - Just responding to the article on Ang Lee:
It says that Hulk was AL's biggest grosser.
Brokeback Mountain was definitely his biggest grosser; much, much higher than Hulk.
kathy :)
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Here are the figures from Box Office Mojo for Ang Lee's films:
Ang Lee
Title (click to view) Studio Lifetime Gross
Taking Woodstock Focus $7,460,204
Lust, Caution Focus $4,604,982
Brokeback Mountain Focus $83,043,761
Hulk Uni. $132,177,234
Crouching Tiger SPC $128,078,872
Ride with the Devil USA $635,096
The Ice Storm FoxS $8,038,061
Sense and Sensibility Sony $43,182,776
Pushing Hands Lions $152,322 5
Eat Drink Man Woman Gold. $7,294,403
The Wedding Banquet Gold. $6,933,459
http://boxofficemojo.com/people/chart/?view=Director&id=anglee.htm
[sorry, I can't get the columns to line up - but you get the picture. you can click on any of the films from the link for complete details.]
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**But - isn't it always reported that Brokeback Mountain earned a grand total of $178 - $180 million?
I've always read this; and it certainly deserved it.**
kathy
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The WORLDWIDE total for BBM is: $178,062,759
The worldwide total for the Hulk is: $245,360,480
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A well deserved break for y'all. Thank you so much!
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Oh, yes, the worldwide gross is $178 million+.
I remember. Wonderful.
kathy :">
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Hiya TDS staff, thanks so much for all the hard work you do, and I hope you enjoy your well deserved break.
See you when you get back!
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What Chuck said!
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Charlotte sure caught the spirit of our visit to Brokeback country.
Just will add that a black bear was fooling around not far from the FNIT.
We found his startle point quick!
And finally, the rainbow. Heaven's belt buckle!
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There are definitely friendlier bears to come upon.
The ones who enjoy slightly sticky fur.
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R&R's description of the disintegrating stairs at the reunion scene site......wasn't that being discussed on another thread? I've tried to find it but so far can't.
If the stairs are still passable, but have wood rot, I don't understand why the owner just doesn't use a chemical anti-fungal (Behr has a fine product), and then paint and/or seal? Hiring that out would cost less than 1K, mostly labor.
I do see the point of raising money to dis-assemble it and remove it to safety, but surely it would be cheaper to store it somewhere on the West Coast? And also, isn't the site itself where it should be?
I wish someone would actually start a thread, post photocaps of the stairs from the film and photos from forum members, along with discussions of what might be done. Surely 1,000 Brokies, contributing $5-$20, could make a difference.
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I wish someone would actually start a thread, post photocaps of the stairs from the film and photos from forum members, along with discussions of what might be done. Surely 1,000 Brokies, contributing $5-$20, could make a difference.
You can always start a thread here:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?board=4.0 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?board=4.0)
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R&R's description of the disintegrating stairs at the reunion scene site......wasn't that being discussed on another thread? I've tried to find it but so far can't.
We were discussing it in the BBM General Discussion topic:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=28284.msg1898573#msg1898573 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=28284.msg1898573#msg1898573)
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Thanks for the links, BCJ ------ it is a serious issue, as iconic props for all the other historic films seem to get preserved. I would hope someone else would start a thread, though. Someone who knows more people than I do. Also, I think if one of the earlier forum members did that, it would be taken more seriously. I lack gravitas around here :D.
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Thanks for the links, BCJ ------ it is a serious issue, as iconic props for all the other historic films seem to get preserved. I would hope someone else would start a thread, though. Someone who knows more people than I do. Also, I think if one of the earlier forum members did that, it would be taken more seriously. I lack gravitas around here :D.
You do NOT lack anything around here. You've been here for almost 3 years. You might think you don't know a lot of people here, but a lot of people know who you are.
I've started plenty of threads and projects that fizzle due to lack of interest. Longevity guarantees nothing.
If you start a topic, send PM's to people you think might be interested and ask for help. I did that a few years ago when I wanted to have a gathering in Bay City and the results were good.
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Ok. Thanks for the encouragement; will check around, and probably go for it, tomorrow. Thanks again :).
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I've been looking for this play one of you mentioned called "Fred! Fred!" but I can't find it anywhere on the internet. Is that for real?
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Dear Fletcher,
It was me who wrote that, and yes, it is a joke. Although I have made some notes...
Mark
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^^^oh, I thought you were serious about that, too.
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That Mark! Leading us on! :D :-* :-*
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Thanks for the links, BCJ ------ it is a serious issue, as iconic props for all the other historic films seem to get preserved. I would hope someone else would start a thread, though. Someone who knows more people than I do. Also, I think if one of the earlier forum members did that, it would be taken more seriously. I lack gravitas around here :D.
No, you don't, Tony.
kathy :)
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I just want to thank the editorial staff of the Daily Sheet for including my article. You are very kind for sharing it here, where it all started four and a half years ago. Who'd a thunk, huh?
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The item featured in Question of the Week is a molinillo. It is used to beat hot chocolate into a delicious froth. I have one, bought in the market in Oaxaca, Mexico. As to the origin, opinions differ. Various stories have it invented by the Maya centuries ago, by the Spanish colonists in the late 1700s, or by the French again in the late 1700s after Europeans developed a taste for the New World treat. Don't know who is right. I'd vote for the Spanish colonists.
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^^^ ;D
I want one of those hot chocolate beaters!
neatfreak I love your sign and your message! Good for you.
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Photo Caption of the Day
Posted by Paul029. Part 1 of 6; see them all in Photo Captioning Fun 5 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=36777.msg1911672#msg1911672)
1. (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp201%2Frasalgethi_photo%2FPhotoCaps%2520July%25202010%2FAVON%2FJane-Avon-1.jpg&hash=6a8491728ffa81c150d9670138988ad81877cffe)
Many thanks to whoever (Linda?) put this on August's TDS!
I'm very flattered. :) :) :)
PS I didn't see it until tonight. :">
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you're very welcome, paul.
i've picked your caps to be featured in TDS before! it pays to read The Daily Sheet! :D
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^^^^^^^
Aw, shucks (((Jimmy))). Thank you! :)
*blushes*
I'd better read it more often, then!
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I hope all involved have enjoyed their vacations - thank you for coming back! The daily sheet was sorely missed. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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Yes! Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove our daily sheet!
I think the answer to this week's question about the shortest movie title nominated for a Best Picture Oscar is Z.
Great movie from 1969!
Mark
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Welcome back Daily Sheet! ;D
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Yay!
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This week's question: What is the shortest film title to be nominated for a Best Picture Academy award? Let us know your answers in the Response Thread. (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=8377.msg1877847#new)
[url=http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=8377.msg1877847#new]Response Thread.[/url]Small suggestion/request, please. Could this code get updated? It's still sending clickers to June 1 on page 238!
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Part of the article on Wahlberg in TDS -- 8/24/10:
"It's too bad a film about two men in love wasn't good enough, but we're not complaining: if Wahlberg was in Brokeback, it probably would have been excruciating, even if he once posed with Crisco."
Answer from kathy today:
To TDS: Your article on this no-talent hypocritical self-righteous jerk Wahlberg (whom I've more than disliked immensely way before his (and his "priest's") denigrating comments re BBM is so right on target!
Well, this is how low he's sunk to, posing for a pic like this (in a film re a porn "star"). All he's good for. HA!!
kathy
p.s. how's your priest's advice now, you self-righteous no-talent jerk?
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[url=http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=8377.msg1877847#new]Response Thread.[/url]Small suggestion/request, please. Could this code get updated? It's still sending clickers to June 1 on page 238!
Thanks Sid. I changed it and I will update it every time now. Thanks for pointing it out!
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Shelby Carpenter's article in the Anchorage Press manages somehow to miss the point of BBM completely by inferring it was about lifestyle choice. Has he seen the film?
In spite of this, he does make the valid point that discrimination against gays and lesbians has a serious effect on our livelihoods. For Ennis in particular, it is about his livelihood and for both him and Jack, their very lives.
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I'll bet you a million bucks he never even saw BBM; if he did he most certainly missed the point of that beautiful film.
Lifestyle choice - what? ???
kathy >:(
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RE: Guess Who's Doing Porno (Again)?
Mark Wahlberg is a coward and an idjit.
And I bet he couldn't have gotten the part even if he'd wanted it.
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Hi!!
RE: TDS question of the week - August 31:
I believe Haagen-Dazs ice cream was started in the '20's or '30s in the Bronx, NY.
kathy :)
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Great TDS again, loved the articles.
Jimmy does not like to place his own photocaptions in the
Photocap of the Week section, being TDS editor, but some of us
wanted him to and told him so, but he is too modest, I guess.
Here is one that many of us wanted him to feature, kudos Jimmy!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fbbm1471.jpg&hash=2648dd71add310762af8b3ac5c375b13dffb3a29)
ennis: c'mon now, yer sleepin on yer feet like a kangaroo.
ang: CUT!!
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Hi!!
RE: TDS question of the week - August 31:
I believe Haagen-Dazs ice cream was started in the '20's or '30s in the Bronx, NY.
kathy :)
Yep. It's marketed as if it were a Danish product, but even the name Häagen Dazs goes against the rules of Danish orthography.
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Yep. It's marketed as if it were a Danish product, but even the name Häagen Dazs goes against the rules of Danish orthography.
You're so right, Fritz.
The word (name?) Häagen Dazs is nowhere near anything even remotely Danish, or any Scandinavian language for that matter.
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And you know Sonja knows her stuff! If she jumped out of her window, she'd land in Denmark. ;) :-* :-*
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Change.org is appealing for action to support ant- homophobic bullying in schools in Minnesota
One suicide is one too many.
But three suicides in one year, within one school district, all by students who are gay or lesbian? That's nothing short of an epidemic, and it's the problem currently facing Minnesota's Anoka-Hennepin school district.
The most recent incident occurred in July, when a 15-year-old student took his own life. A concert cello player in his school's orchestra, the student was incessantly bullied because of his sexual orientation.
"I'm not asking you to accept this as a lifestyle for you," his grieving mother recently said in testimony before the Anoka-Hennepin school board. "I'm only asking that you please make the school safe for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender students still alive and in this district today."
Statistics underscore the danger to LGBT students. Nationwide, gay youth are four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual classmates, in large part because of toxic environments where anti-gay bullying can thrive. Nearly 90% of gay students have experienced harassment in school, and almost two-thirds say they feel unsafe at school because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.
Yet in the Anoka-Hennepin school district, a "neutrality" policy has tied the hands of school administrators and teachers to combat homophobia. This policy was put in place due to the influence of anti-gay groups such as the Parents Action League, which believes homosexuality is a behavior that can be cured, and it requires teachers and school officials to remain silent about subjects pertaining to sexual orientation.
Because of this anti-gay influence, the school board turned down a request by Minnesota's largest gay rights organization to conduct a district-wide anti-bullying program. And it prevented the district from taking action against two teachers who harassed a student believed to be gay until an investigation by the Minnesota Department of Human Rights intervened and punished the teachers.
(snip)
http://sn125w.snt125.mail.live.com/default.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0 (http://sn125w.snt125.mail.live.com/default.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0)
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I am very concerned about Focus on the Family and their attitude towards bullying of gay students in schools and colleges. Far from LGBT information being available to all pupils in schools being a way of persuading students to "turn gay," it is essential to the physical and mental well being of gay students, and just as essential to the non gay students in teaching tolerance of difference, and getting along with ones fellow man and woman.
The suicide rate amongst young gay people speaks for itself.
They say:"Public schools increasingly convey that homosexuality is normal and should be accepted," where is their evidence that this is not the case?
If homosexuality is not normal, why has it been around for as long as mammals of all kinds have been on the earth?
It is OK to hold crackpot ideas providing that they don't affect anyone else.
This does.
The idea that it is good for families to reject and bully their own gay children, or to subject them to some kind of psychological de programming system which it has been proved does not work and can often cause great harm is too appalling to even think about.
I despair of what their intolerant, bullying god must be like, if they are being instructed by faith to behave in this way to their own fellow man.
It certainly isn't any god I recognise.
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Question of the week:
Well, that is the Trinity College in Dublin library.
(Is that what you meant in the clue about "one above two"?//).
Anyway, I am also pretty sure that the photograph is by the amazing Candida Hofer.
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Hi - just an answer to TDS re the Rudolph Valentino article from kathy:
"The actor's sexuality -- which has been the subject of considerable discussion over the last few decades -- is examined at length in Emily Leider's 2003 biography, Dark Lover: The Life and Death of Rudolph Valentino (Farrar, Straus and Giroux). After critiquing another book which claimed Valentino was gay, Leider presciently states, "Valentino exerted and continues to exert enormous power as an object of desire for both sexes. Lusting after him, imagining him as your lover, telling somebody that he was, isn't the same as bedding him."
'Nuf said."
------------------------------------------------------------------
**Yes - 'Nuf said. Emily Leider's "Dark Lover" is the definitive biography of Rudy - at last. The above paragraph from her book says it all. For so many many yrs. there was so much trash written about Valentino, so many lies. During his life, the male "journalists" were merciless towards him, constantly printing insulting comments questioning his "manhood", and creating the infamous "pink powder puff" comment. Naturally, he was extremely hurt by this; and I firmly believe his unhappy personal life caused him much sadness.
Rudolph Valentino deserves all and more of his legend. He was a beautifully handsome man and an excellent actor. Noone ever equalled him. In his films he engulfed women during a love scene. Just his staring look at a girl and his walking towards her make me weak. He was an object of desire by both sexes, and I don't blame them. I admit to the same feeling.**
kathy
p.s. I apologize for the "bolding" of this reply. I don't know how to "un-bold" anything.
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** 1) Erika's portrait of Heath & Jake in the DE scene is beautiful, capturing all the love they have for each other.
She captures the passion wonderfully.
2) The post of the day is beautiful.**
kathy
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"Leider presciently states, "Lusting after him, imagining him as your lover, telling somebody that he was, isn't the same as bedding him."
'Nuf said."
------------------------------------------------------------------
**Yes - 'Nuf said.
Well, not quite enough. Just because Ms. Leider wrote this does not also mean that Samuel Steward
and Valentino did NOT share a bed together. S.S. said he did and has some evidence to back it up.
So I don't have to stretch my imagination too far for me to believe it. Valentino may have been
bothered by the press's name calling of him, too, but that doesn't mean "where there's smoke, there's fire"
isn't true. It usually is.
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**Yes, lyle, this is true too. Still, I wish you would read Ms. Leider's excellent biography of Rudy, "Dark Lover". This book is excellent. And it took almost 70 yrs. to have a definitive biography because so much trash had been published for so so long about Rudy. And his legend as the great lover and cinematic sex god of his time has never been forgotten.
Valentino was so gorgeous and talented, with such charisma not often seen. He was lusted after by both sexes (I include myself in this) and honestly I don't care whether he went both ways, even though I (personally) think he was straight with an attraction to men. During the flming of "Monsieur Beaucaire" in 1924, there was a lot of talk regarding his relationship with Andre Daven, a close friend of his in the film. (Even though his bitch wife Rambova was keeping eagle eyes on him).
But - as far as S. Steward goes, I put no truth in anyone who would document his 746 partners in a "stud file". He seems to be nothing but a male tramp. Why anyone would write a book about this sort of person amazes me. I mean come on!!
kathy
p.s. I could say that I had a very long relationship with my unrequited love Peter O'Toole, but stating this doesn't make it true - no matter how badly I want it to be...**
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But - as far as S. Steward goes, I put no truth in anyone who would document his 746 partners in a "stud file".
He seems to be nothing but a male tramp. Why anyone would write a book about this sort of person amazes me.
I mean come on!!
Well, maybe you need to be amazed.
I've known some guys who make lists. I know one who has/had a "guest book" next to his bed and
partners who signed in (or out). And I had college roommates who kept every copy of Playboy that they jerked off to.
There was a guy who was married who named all of his kids after prostitutes he slept with. Kinsey documented all sorts of things.
And "why would any one write a book about a person like this?" -- to show that gay people have had lives in the past and to unearth
these people, instead of keeping them in the closet, including Valentino in the case of Steward. It's one of the tactics used by those against
glbt people--that there aren't that many-it's an aberration, so this type of thing is useful. Always downplay the numbers. Maybe Valentino was
gay with an attraction to women, to look at your statement in the reverse. Why should I believe Ms. Leider's book any more than I should believe
Steward? Maybe Ms. Leider has her own agenda for all I know. Adela Rogers St. John certainly did. And when you say that "so much trash" has
been written about Valentino, what are you saying? If Valentino was gay then the trash is how he was treated, not that he was. There's always been
trash written about celebrities, but your posts hint of the same reasons we aren't to wonder about Jake's sexuality on the forum, that some just don't
want to go there. To me, that's homophobia, otherwise, why not? Think about it, on a forum dedicated to a love story between two men, one of the
rules is that we cannot speculate about someone being gay. (?) Frankly, gay men do it every day.
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**Oh, no, lyle, it never even entered my mind of my post being homophobic in the least. Would I love BBM so much and be on the DC forums at all if even 1% of that existed in me? Unfortunately, too much of that is still evident in many ways. Actually, would I care so deeply for Ennis & Jack, their lousy lives apart, and the unhappiness existing in their hearts?
All I wanted to state was that I don't care whether Valentino was straight, gay, bi- or any way. He is a legend like no other, continuing to this day, and there has been so much speculation about his life that I feel bad for him. He was also gorgeous, an excellent actor, and not really happy. Whatever Rudy did or didn't do is his business.
I will admit, though, I was startled that a book would be written about a guy who kept a "stud file" of sex partners-all [/i]746 [/i] of them. I don't know if guys keep record books, scores, or any of that stuff.
In summary, though, if I gave a wrong kind of message, it was not intentional.**
kathy
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I don't think it is homophobic not to want to continually debate Jake Gyllenhaal's sexuality either. He says he's straight, he appears to be straight. It's his business. As long as he makes good films and seems to be happy, it is no concern of ours.
Calling him a liar or a hypocrite might be though.
I certainly wouldn't be here, or have so many friends on this forum if I was a homophobe, I don't think.
I care deeply for all of my friends, straight and gay, and offer only true respect and love.
I wouldn't ever do anything to intentionally offend or hurt any of them.
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And you know Sonja knows her stuff! If she jumped out of her window, she'd land in Denmark. ;) :-* :-*
LOL Fritz!! ;D
:-* :-*
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{snip}...trash written about celebrities, but your posts hint of the same reasons we aren't to wonder about Jake's sexuality on the forum, that some just don't
want to go there. To me, that's homophobia, otherwise, why not? Think about it, on a forum dedicated to a love story between two men, one of the
rules is that we cannot speculate about someone being gay. (?) Frankly, gay men do it every day.
I posted this recently in Lashes in regard to the forum speculation rule:
"For those of you who weren't here for the first years of the forum, I'll tell you why we have that rule. It's because people were simply unable to be civil to each other when discussing it. There was never any serious discussion about it that I remember, it was all sniping and snarking and ugliness, on both sides. It took a lot of moderator time - really, you have no idea - and after a few years of that, Dave and I decided that enough was enough.
Nothing we've seen has given us reason to change our minds."
If you'd like to discuss the rule with forum admin, please PM me. Thank you.
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FWIW, I think it was perhaps not uncommon for homosexual men of Samuel Steward’s generation to keep lists and other memorabilia of sexual partners.
I don’t know what his particular motivation was, but I think in some cases, the habit was a response to living in a homophobic society where there wasn’t much chance in the minds of many men of forming a permanent relationship with a same-sex partner. Souvenirs, polaroids and “stud lists” were for some men perhaps a substitute for the heterosexual wedding or family photo album.
I have known homosexual men who often tell stories of their sexual encounters.
For others, I guess it had to do with their concepts of sexual freedom, which must have been a least partly a reaction against the general sexual repressiveness and hypocrisy of English-speaking countries up until the 1960s.
I remember reading a novel by John Rechy published in the 1960s – I think it was Numbers. It was an account of a single weekend of the narrator’s anonymous sexual sexual encounters in public parks and other homosexual beats in Los Angeles. If recall rightly, the tally was scores, if not hundreds. But it was fed by defiance and rage against homophobic laws and especially by the extreme violence and the entrapment tactics of the LA Police Department. One of Rechy’s other books was The Sexual Outlaw.
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I have deleted a string of off-topic posts that in some cases:
continued a personal conversation of bickering, or chimed into that conversation weighing into one side or the other.
Now that Meli has posted, and we have all affirmed we are sincerely glad the policy has helped to stop some of the bickering so we can move onto other discussions, I hope there won't be any more references to it in this thread.
Thanks.
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FWIW, I think it was perhaps not uncommon for homosexual men of Samuel Steward’s generation to keep lists and other memorabilia of sexual partners.
I don’t know what his particular motivation was, but I think in some cases, the habit was a response to living in a homophobic society where there wasn’t much chance in the minds of many men of forming a permanent relationship with a same-sex partner. Souvenirs, polaroids and “stud lists” were for some men perhaps a substitute for the heterosexual wedding or family photo album.
I have known homosexual men who often tell stories of their sexual encounters.
For others, I guess it had to do with their concepts of sexual freedom, which must have been a least partly a reaction against the general sexual repressiveness and hypocrisy of English-speaking countries up until the 1960s.
I remember reading a novel by John Rechy published in the 1960s – I think it was Numbers. It was an account of a single weekend of the narrator’s anonymous sexual sexual encounters in public parks and other homosexual beats in Los Angeles. If recall rightly, the tally was scores, if not hundreds. But it was fed by defiance and rage against homophobic laws and especially by the extreme violence and the entrapment tactics of the LA Police Department. One of Rechy’s other books was The Sexual Outlaw.
Notches on bedposts, or variations thereof, certainly do exist.
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RE: OUT WEST: Brokeback Mountain and Beyond Brokeback
Tickets go on sale Wednesday, September 15.
This screening is expected to sell out.
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The only reason for the word 'hamstrings' that I can think of,
is that the tendon attaches to the muscle gluteus maximus, which sort of gives the butt it's shape.
Like a ham, (more or less :D)
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The commonly accepted origin is that legs of ham used to be hung by a hook through the space between the thighbone and the tendons behind the knee. Ham/pork used to be more common in England than beef and lamb.
Also the word 'hamstrung' meaning 'blocked', 'unable to move' derives from the cutting of the hamstring tendons of an opponent in battle with swords, which left him helpless. For mobility this area could not be fully protected.
Sal ;D
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In connection with the firing of the gay French soccer player, I'm reminded of an Dear Abby column, a paraphrase of which reads:
One of my favorite Dear Abby quotes -- and this one came from the actual Abby -- was the famous answer to a reader who wrote in asking advice on how to deal with a gay couple moving in next door to her, thereby destroying the values of the sacred little neighborhood and scandalizing the neighborhood children.
Abby's advice? "You could move."
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Notches on bedposts, or variations thereof, certainly do exist.
Mozart > Don Giovanni > Leporello list :D
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The commonly accepted origin is that legs of ham used to be hung by a hook through the space between the thighbone and the tendons behind the knee. Ham/pork used to be more common in England than beef and lamb.
Also the word 'hamstrung' meaning 'blocked', 'unable to move' derives from the cutting of the hamstring tendons of an opponent in battle with swords, which left him helpless. For mobility this area could not be fully protected.
Sal ;D
OW :o
ETA: and I have enough trouble stretching them
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i love the daily sheet, always have. and can i just say, the latest one was great. wide ranging, well illustrated, funny, sad, and just all around delightful. it was so good, i don't even mind that it's not really daily any more. i'll enjoy one this good, whenever i get it! so thanks, editors and contributors. kj
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thanks, kj, for your kind words about our little BBM newsletter! it's a lot of fun putting them together for the forum members.
LOL. i have to chuckle at your "daily" remark. we went from daily (not including weekends, but still grueling) to twice a week, then it finally went down to once a week, where it looks like it will stay indefinitely, unless we suddenly go bi. ;)
despite being a weekly, i doubt we'll change the title over to TWS, even though that's pretty close to TWIST. (what about The Weekly Ledger?)
jimmy
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OW :o
ETA: and I have enough trouble stretching them
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.icanhascheezburger.com%2Fcompletestore%2F2008%2F4%2F25%2Ffirststretchin128536165587291608.jpg&hash=6ce2fc17518cc7bfc910df8486d89f2a25258ac1)
:D
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^^^^
LOL Jimmy, I LOVE that :D
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...despite being a weekly, i doubt we'll change the title over to TWS, even though that's pretty close to TWIST. (what about The Weekly Ledger?)
jimmy
well, jimmy, i say: if it ain't broke, don't fix it! kj
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And if you can't fix it, you gotta stand it! ;)
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yup. i think that's where we are right now. :D
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I put a comment in the memorabilia thread, regarding wardrobe memorabilia used in the film, in TDS last week. Any comments would be appreciated.
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"In Europe after World War II, General Dwight D. Eisenhower told his clerk, WAC Sergeant Johnnie Phelps, that he'd heard rumors there were lesbians in the WAC battalion and asked her to prepare a list naming them so he could discharge them. Phelps bravely told Eisenhower that she'd do as he asked, but that her name would be at the top of the list. A more junior clerk then spoke up saying, "Begging the general's pardon, but my name will be above Sgt. Phelps' because I'll be typing it."Realizing he'd be getting rid of most of his file clerks, typists, and a large share of his headquarters' support staff, Eisenhower withdrew the order."
Tigs ;D
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I put a comment in the memorabilia thread, regarding wardrobe memorabilia used in the film, in TDS last week. Any comments would be appreciated.
Take a look at the jacket that is for sale on that site for $ 4.100.00 :o:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FLMCjacket.jpg&hash=e84e0c094b63252ced5c1c604120ce28e7f1e5d5)
http://www.leadingmencollection.com/catalog/item/6732853/6322273.htm (http://www.leadingmencollection.com/catalog/item/6732853/6322273.htm)
Just a quick look at the pockets tells us that this isn't even the same design as the jacket that Heath wore.
The buttons are also totally different than the original. I have a full front photo of Heath wearing that jacket, and the one on the LeadingMenCollection site is very different. The real jacket has 5 buttons, the fake one has 4.
I do not trust that company.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FB_2_Brokeback.jpg&hash=9ec249b35b9864be00c88a0542f408aa51e6082f)
This is the jacket Heath was wearing in the poster shot.
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BUT I MIGHT BE MISTAKEN :o
The company is saying that the top part of the jacket is different than the rest of the jacket - that the poster shot is a composite photo.
I'm trying to verify that with the photographer.
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Here's the area in question, the collar/shoulder area.
The photo I'm using for comparison was taken about the same time as the poster photo.
LMC is saying that their jacket was used to touch up the area around the face.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2Fpostercomp.jpg&hash=b427d0e8c74690e55ea6696472f859837113f125)
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Thank John!
The discussion is in the memorabilia thread (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=10907.msg1939613#msg1939613) now.
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Thank you, Jimmy, for selecting my cap for PhotoCap of the Day:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=40313.msg1936249#msg1936249
I'm very flattered. :)
Paul
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^^ you're very welcome, paul!
Thanks for voting!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fbbmposter.jpg&hash=636079b1afec1d116108ef50b9848701a0dd5eed)
After Elton says Brokeback Mountain is Number One!
According to their Top 50 Favorite Gay Films 2010 Poll Results
#1 Brokeback Mountain (2005) (http://www.afterelton.com/movies/2010/9/favorite-gay-films?page=0,10)
Rank last year: 1
Summary: In the 1960's two Wyoming ranch hands embark
on a beautiful but ultimately doomed lifelong romance.
Based on the short story by Annie Proulx.
Read more: http://www.afterelton.com/node/36337
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Thanks for voting!
After Elton says Brokeback Mountain is Number One!
According to their Top 50 Favorite Gay Films 2010 Poll Results
#1 Brokeback Mountain (2005) (http://www.afterelton.com/movies/2010/9/favorite-gay-films?page=0,10)
Rank last year: 1
Summary: In the 1960's two Wyoming ranch hands embark
on a beautiful but ultimately doomed lifelong romance.
Based on the short story by Annie Proulx.
Read more: http://www.afterelton.com/node/36337
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FBM_1322.jpg&hash=38288850d6503f821d010baba7c0f3252315afd4)
... I know that
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Thanks for voting!
After Elton says Brokeback Mountain is Number One!
According to their Top 50 Favorite Gay Films 2010 Poll Results
#1 Brokeback Mountain (2005) (http://www.afterelton.com/movies/2010/9/favorite-gay-films?page=0,10)
Rank last year: 1
Read more: http://www.afterelton.com/node/36337
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi73.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fi216%2Fellenclaire_photos%2Fdiana.jpg&hash=6b61524eadffe498e266b9fac086f0154c8bfe42)
But we all know it was the BEST…and it will be remembered that way, and reaffirmed every time someone watches it for the first time…
All good things,
Diana
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"But we all know it was the BEST…and it will be remembered that way, and reaffirmed every time someone watches it for the first time…
All good things,
Diana"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This touched me to the heart. #1 - Brokeback Mountain. Always.
kathy
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Thanks for voting!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Fbbmposter.jpg&hash=636079b1afec1d116108ef50b9848701a0dd5eed)
After Elton says Brokeback Mountain is Number One!
According to their Top 50 Favorite Gay Films 2010 Poll Results
#1 Brokeback Mountain (2005) (http://www.afterelton.com/movies/2010/9/favorite-gay-films?page=0,10)
Rank last year: 1
Summary: In the 1960's two Wyoming ranch hands embark
on a beautiful but ultimately doomed lifelong romance.
Based on the short story by Annie Proulx.
Read more: http://www.afterelton.com/node/36337
Yay!!!
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Yay! Blazy is famous!
And Dorothy Parker left her estate to the NAACP, despite having had no connection with the organization previously.
And she was referring to the incomparable, unpredictable Tallulah Bankhead!
Of whom another reviewer remarked at her playing the role of Cleopatra, "She barged down the Nile, and sank."
(John Mason Brown, drama critic)
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yes, blazy in living color!
ok, you're half right, but fully right on, because it was funny. :D
tallulah as a barge.... ::)
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:) Hi!!
1) Answer to Question of the Week: Dorothy Parker said this about Katharine Hepburn.
2) Bush hugging Long (?!?)
3) R. Quaid - how could anyone let himself go like this? Ugh!
4) What a beautiful thing a rainbow is! This painting is lovely.
kathy :)
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Linda - what a heartbreaking TDS today!
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This week's question: What (and where) is the world's largest banana?
Answer: It's right here.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi295.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm156%2Fbbmuppslukad%2Fpostade%2520bilder%2Fphoto%2520caps%2FPro-Banana-Riding-Rodeo--34110.jpg&hash=ff30857b2cbd72259cb5331e065c01bb5e3f9465)
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When I was growing up (a long time ago), it was always claimed that the world's largest banana was at Coffs Harbour on the North coast of NSW 540 km north of Sydney. Googling now does not show any other answer. It is a tourist attraction The Big Banana opened in 1964 standing 11 meters long, 5 meters high and 2.4 meters wide. I have driven past if often on the way to Queensland but do not remember ever stopping.
Australia went through a period of building these rather kitsch tourist things. large Pineapple, large Merino etc. Not a thing I am proud of and not the sort of thing I add to my travel itinerary. ;D
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This week's question: What (and where) is the world's largest banana?
Answer: It's right here.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi295.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm156%2Fbbmuppslukad%2Fpostade%2520bilder%2Fphoto%2520caps%2FPro-Banana-Riding-Rodeo--34110.jpg&hash=ff30857b2cbd72259cb5331e065c01bb5e3f9465)
you are SO bad. :D :D
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you are SO bad. :D :D
Who? Me?
I'm totally innocent!
;) :D >:D
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I have to say I was very touched by the latest TDS. I was bullied in school, I find very few people who were not bullied. It didn't take much, first it was because my mom took me to school. OR when I started wearing glasses in 7th grade. Or later when I had problems with acne. They made me feel like there was something wrong with me, and I couldn't figure out why they didn't like me. Luckily I did make some friends in school, we were all not the POPULAR kids or in the IN crowd.
I guess because my mom knew how to lift my low self-esteem I never considered ending it all. I thought once I graduated school and entered the work force all that bullying crap was behind me. But nope, the 'mature' adults' I thought I'd find on my entry into the 'adult' world must have been hiding. The same juvenile attitudes were there in the work place too. Only the stakes were higher. In school you could get suspended or expelled. At work being fired is no joke, especially when you lose that paycheck.
In fact I had my first encounter with an anti-semetic at the first place I worked for. I also had a comment about my being Jewish and not needing my paycheck from my manager. I was shocked to say the least.
I think something has to be done to teach kids from the time they enter school and into high school about what happens when you are bullied and how you should handle it. And where to get help.
I hope the cycle of suicides among bullied people can come to and end.
oh and I loved this quote
“Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made
a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life, but define yourself.”
~ Harvey S. FIrestone ~
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:) RE: PHOTO IMAGE (((((( :-*))))))))
Oh, Mia, Birger is one of the most beautiful babies I ever saw; he looks like a little baby angel. You must be so proud. He is just so adorable! And his little baby boy clothes are the cutest things.
Love & Kisses to him from
kathy :-* :-*
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:) Hi!! RE: Fun Question of the Week --
I believe the Colonel's Kentucky Fried Chicken came before Eggo Waffles. Right??
kathy
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I hope the cycle of suicides among bullied people can come to and end.
oh and I loved this quote
“Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made
a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life, but define yourself.”
~ Harvey S. FIrestone ~
exactly, trekfan
hugs
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Yes, that is a great quote.
Warm hugs from me too (((Linda)))
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Thank you for making me and my newborn grandson Birger a part of this TDS!
And thank you ((((Kathy)))) :-*
He really is a beautiful baby.
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That interesting eyeview letter and response (a somewhat longer response) was also included in Slate's Dear Prudence column last week.
Clearly, somebody is plagiarizing...
I l Love You, Man (http://www.slate.com/id/2270172/)
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**I don't like that Prudence at all. As for her response, why did Prudence even bring up BBM, Ennis and Jack at all?? For heaven's sake, that doesn't fit in with the "third wheel" question at all; moreover, there are entirely different circumstances. It infuritates me when a great film like Brokeback Mountain and Heath's and Jack's great performances as Ennis & Jack are so wrongly taken to be included in such a dumb/ridiculous Prudence answer. >:(
And - for everyone's information - Michelle Williams was NEVER married to Heath Ledger. They had a daughter, yes, but there was never a marriage. They separated in Sept. '07; our beloved Heath was taken on 1/22/08. Poor Heath, so troubled and ill; so totally preventable.
kathy
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...why did Prudence even bring up BBM, Ennis and Jack at all??...
As a non-judgmental, non-accusatory, more-or-less-supportive way for the woman to ask her husband if he's having an affair with his friend?
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I agree Sid, the poor woman really does seem to be in a "Brokeback" situation, almost to the letter. It sounds to me as if she has real problems, and that the advice she was given was a good way in.
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Thank you for making me and my newborn grandson Birger a part of this TDS!
And thank you ((((Kathy)))) :-*
He really is a beautiful baby.
**Oh, ((((((Mia))))), you're so welcome. He is such an adorable little baby boy and so beautiful.** :-*
kathy :-*
p.s. hugs & kisses too to little Birger - xoxoxoxoxoxo
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That interesting eyeview letter and response (a somewhat longer response) was also included in Slate's Dear Prudence column last week.
Clearly, somebody is plagiarizing...
I l Love You, Man (http://www.slate.com/id/2270172/)
Go Prudence!
I have always liked Prudence. She is the daughter of Ann Landers. I appreciate that she knew not only Jack's and Ennis's names but also their last names. Ain't no reins!
I think you're right Sandy, she is telling the woman to face up to what she already knows. It is what it is.
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“Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made
a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life, but define yourself.”
~ Harvey S. FIrestone ~
Of course this has been attributed to just about everyone from Winston Churchill to Robert Frost but
it is:
Harvey Forbes (no S.) Fierstein.
To my knowledge no one associated with rubber is involved.
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**I don't like that Prudence at all. As for her response, why did Prudence even bring up BBM, Ennis and Jack at all?? For heaven's sake, that doesn't fit in with the "third wheel" question at all; moreover, there are entirely different circumstances. It infuritates me when a great film like Brokeback Mountain and Heath's and Jack's great performances as Ennis & Jack are so wrongly taken to be included in such a dumb/ridiculous Prudence answer. >:(
And - for everyone's information - Michelle Williams was NEVER married to Heath Ledger. They had a daughter, yes, but there was never a marriage. They separated in Sept. '07; our beloved Heath was taken on 1/22/08. Poor Heath, so troubled and ill; so totally preventable.
kathy
Kathy:
Everyone appreciates being set straight regarding the marital status.
Furthermore, while I had always assumed Heath was preventable, I never actually discussed the situation with his parents.
Again, thank you.
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:) Hi gary - you're welcome.
I guess I'm out-voted on the "Prudence" answer thing. I was relating it to Ennis' and Jack's situation.
What "third wheel" wrote about isn't in the same league at all as the sad situation of E&J, who met when they were 19 yrs. old and loved each other all their lives.
They did not hang out with each other and touch each other, etc., right in front one man's long-term wife.
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exactly, trekfan
hugs
For everyone's consideration - statement of Oct. 12, 2010, of openly gay Ft. Worth city councilman Joel Burns regarding Gay suicide:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ax96cghOnY4&feature=player_embedded
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As for "The Muppets"
"The Muppet Show" was perhaps the favorite TV show in our house for a very long time. So I went to the kids and Mrs. D and this is their take:
Juliet Prowse was probably the first guest but Joel Gray may have been the first one to actually air.
On the other hand, there is a contingent which insists that Mia Farrow was actually the first guest host as part of a pilot way back in somewhere around 1974.
Miss Piggy's "full" name is probably "Piggy Lee". However she, herself, as given more "ornate " first names like Pigathia or some such.
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Interesting link to the author panel with Annie Proulx at the New Yorker festival. Thanks!
yes, you have to pay $4.95 for the whole program which is an hour and 20 minutes, with much rambling by E.L. Doctorow-- but all interesting stuff. Annie Proulx was not wordy. Kind of like her writing.
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I'd love to read more of the Rabbi's comments about homosexuality and Jewish perspective. Only problem is that when I get to the Wall Street Journal page I have to log in or subscribe. something I don't want to do. I had wondered what a rabbi might have to say about it. I liked the way he put it, looking at the bigger picture and trying to be compassionate.
Does anyone have the rest of this article. maybe you can post a link?
thanks
My Jewish Perspective on Homosexuality
I tell gay couples they still have 611 of the Torah's 613 rules to keep them busy.
SHMULEY BOTEACH
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-- TREMBLING BEFORE G-D
If you're interested, this is a documentary about the topic of
gay Jews and their religion. It was released in 2001, I believe.
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-- TREMBLING BEFORE G-D
If you're interested, this is a documentary about the topic of
gay Jews and their religion. It was released in 2001, I believe.
I saw that film, very well done.
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I'd love to read more of the Rabbi's comments about homosexuality and Jewish perspective. Only problem is that when I get to the Wall Street Journal page I have to log in or subscribe. ...
sorry about that, linda. when the article was gathered for TDS it was shown in its entirety.
try this link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tFgn9xIDPBYJ:online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704361504575552203494330686.html+My+Jewish+Perspective+on+Homosexuality&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
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I had the same problem as you, Linda. So thanks for the new link Jimmy.
And thanks for including the article in TDS in the first place. It's very interesting to me.
I'm appalled by the opinions on homosexuality many orthodox Jews have, just like many other religions.
I'm ashamed of them. They certainly don't represent me and my religion, the way I see it.
We should do better, IMO. I've always thought that Jews and gays have a lot in common, not least historically.
The hiding, the persecution, the alienation from the rest of society, the risk of death by hateful and prejudiced people.
And, of course, the Holocaust.
There's no room for homophobia in a Jewish community! We should reach out to one another instead, sharing much of the same experiences.
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I don't see anything about this astonishing story yet on our site and I'm not sure where to post it. Since I imagine it might be worth a mention in the next The Daily Sheet, I've put it here.
"Randy Quaid seeks refugee status in Canada"
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/10/22/bc-randy-quaid-vancouver-arrest.html (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/10/22/bc-randy-quaid-vancouver-arrest.html)
Apparently, Randy Quaid is claiming that Heath Ledger was murdered. Local lawyers commenting in the press here in Vancouver suggest that Quaid is unlikely to win his refugee claim.
--Bob/BillyBobcat
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Fun Question of the Week
This week's question: What Hollywood film was the first to show a woman wearing only a slip and bra?
Let us know your answers in the Response Thread.
I'm pretty sure it's PSYCHO (1960), and if so, the lovely lady in question was Janet Leigh.
Mark
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You're sure she didn't wear SPEEDOS ?
;D
(just kiddin')
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Fun Question of the Week
This week's question: What Hollywood film was the first to show a woman wearing only a slip and bra?
Let us know your answers in the Response Thread.
I'm pretty sure it's PSYCHO (1960), and if so, the lovely lady in question was Janet Leigh.
Mark
Can't remember the details, but A Streetcar Named Desire in 1951 raised a ruckus because of Vivian Leigh scantily clad. But I may be confusing the play with the movie.
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You're sure she didn't wear SPEEDOS ?
;D
(just kiddin')
I wouldn't mind seeing Tony Perkins or John Gavin in a pair! ;)
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But not the other (FRC) Tony Perkins. Lord save us.
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I love the speech that mother held.
I hate the fact that such a speech is even needed.
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A profound thank you to fofol for his lovely writing about our bookmark.
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:) Hi!
Just wanted to comment on fofol's remarks about janjo's beautiful photo of the SNIT and the beautiful poem that accompanies it. I love it.
Some time back, jess was kind enough to send this to me via e-mail. I was so touched/moved by the photo of the boys AND the verse, that I was brought to tears. I think it is beautiful, and I have always kept it.
kathy
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Excellent job on TDS this week everyone!
***
The trivia question about the first U.S. drive-in--I haven't
researched anything, but something rattling around my mind
is telling me it was in New Jersey. Was it Camden? Don't know,
but I'll stick with NJ as the state.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FBBM2-1.jpg&hash=d697fc5d6a2d0f2807a4918996f18910e22b6f6a)
"Brokeback Mountain"
Acrylic on canvas
Steve Walker
http://theunbearabletruthfeareatsthesoul.blogspot.com/2010/11/artists-corner_11.html (http://theunbearabletruthfeareatsthesoul.blogspot.com/2010/11/artists-corner_11.html)
http://stevewalkerartist.com/gallerybarebackmountain.html (http://stevewalkerartist.com/gallerybarebackmountain.html)
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I'd guess California as the state with the first drive-in. Seems very Disneyland to me.
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What a great Daily Sheet - thanks so much for all the hard work and effort in producing it. Such an interesting, wide array of topic. A great read.
Dawn
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Wow -- I just read that Q & A with Annie Proulx -- that blogger wrote it up as if he had asked all those questions! That was the reading Annie Proulx did in Kyle TX on Oct 22, I drove to Austin to see her. It was a large group. The blogger is pretending he asked all those questions but he listened to many other people ask questions. One of the questions, about the Shipping News, was my question! I posted about it in the Annie Proulx thread.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=629.msg1958924#msg1958924
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'Jake is a sweet boy'
Not sure I like this answer at all!! It sounds like he did his best but was not up to the character she had created.
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**I know. I didn't care for that statement at all either. It's as if Jake's performance as Jack was not enough to mention.
It's strange, but I don't remember AP ever saying anything like that re Jake in past years. She had always praised both boys' performances in BBM.
Of course, Heath's Ennis did have her heart. He IS beyond great as Ennis, and she has said this and more. But she never faulted Jake as Jack in any way.
Anyway, they are both great. If we say, e.g., Heath is 100% plus (and he certainly is), then Jake is 100%. Noone else could ever have the electrical chemistry these two have as Ennis & Jack. It jumps right out at you from the screen.**
kathy
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'Jake is a sweet boy'
Not sure I like this answer at all!! It sounds like he did his best but was not up to the character she had created.
I would agree with her.
I like Jake, and some of his acting in the film was very good, but overall he was just not in the same league as Heath. He has always been the weak link in the film for me.
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'Jake is a sweet boy'
Not sure I like this answer at all!! It sounds like he did his best but was not up to the character she had created.
Quite honestly, as I was there -- this is only a paraphrase. She didn't say "Jake is a sweet boy" in this dismissive way. She said she had corresponded with him as well.
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He is a sweet boy :)
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Quite honestly, as I was there -- this is only a paraphrase. She didn't say "Jake is a sweet boy" in this dismissive way. She said she had corresponded with him as well.
**I certainly believe this.**
kathy
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I only just read about the Jack Kerouac film in the daily sheet, and can't wait for this. "On The Road" is a book that cries out to be filmed. Let's see if this works as well on the screen as BBM the short story did. The actor chosen to play Dean has the same long-faced handsome features as Neal Cassady did. Photos of Neal in his prime are still fixed in my memory from a book I read about 10 years ago. He was gorgeous.
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Last state to officially celebrate Thanksgiving on the fourth Thursday.
Texas.
Lord only knows why but I am willing to bet it had something to do with football. (UT vs. A&M?).
We also celebrated twice, on consecutive Thursdays, for a while. Again, who knows?
Texas has always, it seems, been in a bit of a snit regarding Thanksgiving.
If my 7th grade Texas history memory is correct, the state also claims to have held the truly
"first" Thanksgiving back in the 1500's (?) between native Indians and Mexicans?
In addition Sam Houston, I think, added to the confusion by declaring what became Texas Independence day
as "Thanksgiving".
I am sure there must also be a claim somewhere regarding "size" as well. :D
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very good, gary! i was hoping somebody from texas would be able to answer correctly! amazing about celebrating twice! that must have worn out the real housewives of dallas. :D
thanks for the extra info... but i gotta know... do ya'll drink coffee? ;)
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very good, gary! i was hoping somebody from texas would be able to answer correctly! amazing about celebrating twice! that must have worn out the real housewives of dallas. :D
LOL, yeah but "Dallas" housewives back then were a hardy bunch. Actually it only occurred on those rare occasions when November actually had 5 Thursdays and I really don't remember too much about it, (I was but a teeny, tiny, tot ;)). And we had just moved to Texas so until the early sixties we always migrated back to Illinois for the holidays to be with my grandparents.
Texas was definitely a Democrat stronghold back then but Roosevelt was never very popular. I think we preferred our wealthy Democratic leaders to be a bit "shadier". By 1956, however, I imagine Stanley Marcus,(the first "Fortnight" was in 1957, I think), the Sakowitz brothers, and the powers that be at Sanger-Harris convinced the legislature to honor the fourth Thursday idea. After all, it was "good for bidness".
(Which reminds me.....how I miss Molly Ivins..sigh.)
thanks for the extra info... but i gotta know... do ya'll drink coffee? ;)
"Texas Tea". ;D
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If I remember my history correctly, before it was nationalized by FDR, The Thanksgiving holiday
was mostly celebrated in every state the same day, but over the years different states had it
on different days and the holiday had been celebrated as early as September in the U.S. and as
late as December.
I always recommend this film to watch, but no one ever says they've done it:
"What's Cooking?"
There's another film being shot right now for release next year, called A Thanksgiving Engagement.
It's being directed by out (and married) gay director Jim Fall, who directed the gay themed film TRICK.
(This film is not gay related, although I know there's a brief gay character in it. "What's Cooking?"
has a couple gay characters in it.)
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In the first article in this TDS you quote veteran gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell.
Mr Janjo and I, many years ago, and before we gave the matter much thought or considered fully the implications of gay rights, thought him an odd lad; however, since we've grown up a little, and Mr Tatchell has stuck to his guns and his agenda, we now find him completely admirable, and think he probably ought to get a knighthood for his contribution to gay rights.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
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In the first article in this TDS you quote veteran gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell.
Mr Janjo and I, many years ago, and before we gave the matter much thought or considered fully the implications of gay rights, thought him an odd lad; however, since we've grown up a little, and Mr Tatchell has stuck to his guns and his agenda, we now find him completely admirable, and think he probably ought to get a knighthood for his contribution to gay rights.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?
I wonder what he'd think of the idea?
He certainly has a record of great courage, determination, unrelenting perseverance. I believe he is also not well.
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perhaps you can get this info out to your readers. it is dire.
PLEASE, help somehow to stop this heartless action, a virtual death sentence for many glbt homeless kids.
http://bit.ly/flqdkd
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I wonder what he'd think of the idea?
He certainly has a record of great courage, determination, unrelenting perseverance. I believe he is also not well.
He doesn't seem too bad when he is on TV, but I believe he has a certain amount of brain damage due to being hit over the head too many times in protest demonstrations.
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b. CSLewis, the Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.
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Could this information be added to The News Box?
Rodney Alan Giles, "The Voice of Brokeback" passed away on Saturday December 4. A service will be held in Overland Park (Kansas City area) at 11 a.m. on December 11. We're inviting all Brokies and friends who aren't already going to the Fifth Anniversary screening in Los Angeles to join us. We may be renting a house on Friday evening and want to come together for breakfast on Saturday morning. Contact Front-Ranger or EDelMar for more details and to let us know of your interest.
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Rodney's obituary has been published
He kept a home in Cherry Grove, NY, where he played for summer church services and acted in plays, including his 2007 solo show, "Brokeback Mountain and Me." From 2001 he spent winters in FL, where he served as minister of music for First Congregational Church of Fort Lauderdale. In 2008 he moved to Aurora, CO; and to Overland Park in 2009. Everywhere Rodney lived, he made dear friends. He enjoyed traveling, sailing, going to movies, and collecting classic television comedies.
Read more: http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kansascity/obituary.aspx?n=rodney-alan-giles&pid=146998650#ixzz17VbDgjqn (http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/kansascity/obituary.aspx?n=rodney-alan-giles&pid=146998650#ixzz17VbDgjqn)
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He doesn't seem too bad when he is on TV, but I believe he has a certain amount of brain damage due to being hit over the head too many times in protest demonstrations.
Yes, and he was beaten up by Robert Mugabe's thugs when he tried to make a citizen's arrest in London.
As I recall, he was found a few months ago in need of medical attention in the tiny flat where he lives alone. I think there was also a suggestion that he may not be eating properly.
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He is certainly a hero to me these days, I hope he starts to look after himself properly now, because we need brave men like him.
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I just got the flyer for Bill Handley's upcoming book.
Check it out. I love the cover art.
http://www.davecullen.com/john/Handley_Flyer-1.pdf (http://www.davecullen.com/john/Handley_Flyer-1.pdf)
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I just got the flyer for Bill Handley's upcoming book.
Check it out. I love the cover art.
http://www.davecullen.com/john/Handley_Flyer-1.pdf (http://www.davecullen.com/john/Handley_Flyer-1.pdf)
It's really beautiful. Thanks for posting this.
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It's really beautiful. Thanks for posting this.
Yes, he is :D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf110%2Ftootsiemom%2FAutry%2520Panel%252012-13-09%2FAutryPanel12-09078.jpg&hash=12af75c63bb5e02e23ff90acb85b3bb57d649dd3)
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Oh, you mean the book?? :">
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I just got the flyer for Bill Handley's upcoming book.
Check it out. I love the cover art.
http://www.davecullen.com/john/Handley_Flyer-1.pdf (http://www.davecullen.com/john/Handley_Flyer-1.pdf)
John, did you see the flyer at the Autry? They had a stack of them in the gift shop.
They also had a couple other Brokeback books in there and the film on dvd.
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John, did you see the flyer at the Autry? They had a stack of them in the gift shop.
They also had a couple other Brokeback books in there and the film on dvd.
Yes. Bill gave me a flyer and also emailed the pdf.
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Yes, he is :D
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi998.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faf110%2Ftootsiemom%2FAutry%2520Panel%252012-13-09%2FAutryPanel12-09078.jpg&hash=12af75c63bb5e02e23ff90acb85b3bb57d649dd3)
Agree very much! :)
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Oh, you mean the book?? :">
Well, initially, yes. ;)
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The Oz books were my favorite reading as a kid! Read The Marvelous Land of Oz before reading the Wonderful Wizard, though, because my sister had the former book. My mother got me the Wizard as a present not long after seeing the movie on TV during its first showing there.
The shoes were silver, and not slippers!
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And they were lost forever on Dorothy's trip back to Kansas from Oz...
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My response to the Daily Sheet -- great edition!
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And they were lost forever on Dorothy's trip back to Kansas from Oz...
Yep! But at least she later had the magic belt to get back and forth. Then again, after Aunt Em and Uncle Henry moved to Oz, there was no need for her to go back.
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My response to the Daily Sheet -- great edition!
Amen to that, Ellen!
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thank you, ellen and fritz!
fritz, thanks also for your wonderful train pic, and the correct answer on the silver slippers boots cha cha heels ugg boots shoes. :D
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Thank you for using it, Jimmy! I'm quite fond of the way that came out, myself!
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:) Hi Fritz --
Your beautiful pic of the train tracks and the mountain in the distance reminds me so much of the beginning of BBM. The train and its accompanying noises rushes by Ennis, then Jack comes in his truck.
Like we know their lives are going to be forever changed...
kathy
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Another wonderful edition of TDS! Thank you Linda and all who put so much effort and time into it. I enjoy every edition, and look forward to them each week.
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What Charlie said!
And I agree with the rest: Fritz' picture is stunning!
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:) Hi Fritz --
Your beautiful pic of the train tracks and the mountain in the distance reminds me so much of the beginning of BBM. The train and its accompanying noises rushes by Ennis, then Jack comes in his truck.
Like we know their lives are going to be forever changed...
kathy
Thanks, Kathy!
Tack, Sonja!
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**You are very welcome, my friend.**
kathy :)
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I know this! It's Astoria, Oregon. (I didn't cheat and look it up, either--I've been to Oregon twice.)
Mark
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yes, it'a astoria..... but how old is it gonna be? huh? huh? ;) >:D
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200 years old?
:-*
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the peace sign represents an "N" and a "D" which stands for nuclear disarmament. The symbols have something to do with semaphore flags but I can't remember the sequence. I think the triangle thingie at the bottom is supposed to be two flags pointed down forming an upside down "V" representing an "n" but I can't remember what represents the "d". Is it two flags held on top of one another vertically? HELP!!)
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Jake Gyllenhaal: Natalie Portman Is the 'Audrey Hepburn of Our Generation'
Sorry, Jake, not even close!
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:) Hi to everyone --
I'd like to make a couple of comments:
1. All of the photos are beautiful.
2. RE: the STAR Magazine article regarding Sarah Jessica Parker purchasing the apt,. in SoHo where Heath passed away.
I've never liked this magazine, so I am not surprised that they would print a sentence like "where Heath Ledger died of a
drug overdose in ...."
Drug overdose is a lie, giving a definite wrong impression of hard drugs. Heath passed away due to a toxic combination of physician-prescribed and over the counter drugs. The jerks @ STAR magazine are so often incorrect.
Sadly, Heath was the victim of a toxic cocktail, which included THREE prescribed benzodiazepine drugs, along with other physician-prescribed drugs. This should never be prescribed by any reputable physician. So sad..."
kathy :'(
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If this is the place to answer the Fun Question of the Week about what's in the peace pin:
The words are Nuclear Disarmament.
And they're represented by the semaphore flags for N and D. I don't know my semaphore, but that pin became really famous when I was in junior high.
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The 2 costumes that Heath Ledger wore in Four Feathers sold for £400 each
http://www.dnfa.com/search.asp?view=lotno&auction=20446&lotno=152&uniqueid=431009-3 (http://www.dnfa.com/search.asp?view=lotno&auction=20446&lotno=152&uniqueid=431009-3)
http://www.dnfa.com/search.asp?view=lotno&auction=20446&lotno=142&uniqueid=431009-1 (http://www.dnfa.com/search.asp?view=lotno&auction=20446&lotno=142&uniqueid=431009-1)
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Linda was too modest to bring it up herself, but all should see her wonderful 42,000th post!
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=41712.msg2024797#msg2024797
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=41712.msg2024844#msg2024844
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wow! what a moving post! ;) :D
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Thanks for the links, Fritz. I'd missed them!
Great Job (((Linda)))!! :-* :-* :-*
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The post is beautiful, linda. So many things - it's just great!!
kathy :)
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wow! what a moving post! ;) :D
HA HA Jimmy! ;D
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Thanks John and Kathy. It was a lot of fun to put together!!
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What a sweet post, Linda--both of them!
xoxo,
Mark
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Thanks Mark. :-*
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I cannot even think of a guess for the KFC Jazz singer, but didn't
Aretha Franklin once use the bucket for a hat? :)
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I cannot even think of a guess for the KFC Jazz singer, but didn't
Aretha Franklin once use the bucket for a hat? :)
LOL, probably.
Ella Fitzgerald,of course, did those famous "Memorex" commercials but I think she also did KFC.
Some sort of "scat" on their "we do chicken right" slogan.
For some reason I remember her and a very young Shanice appearing in a KFC commercial.
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This isn't the answer but wouldn't you have loved to see Tina Turner do a KFC commercial?
Secret herbs and SPICES!
Herbs and SPICES!
In the Colonel's chicken...
Now I'm dying for a bucket...
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Aretha Franklin once use the bucket for a hat? :)
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LOL!
I love those ladies!
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I remember a joke that Greer Garson (yes, Greer Garson) said on a variety
show once: "If Ella Fitzgerald married Allen Funt she'd be an Ella Funt."
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's funny! :D
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You probably all know that the two photos of Richard Wheatcroft as a young man, served as an inspiration when costume designer Marit Allen created Ennis’s look.
"A tribute to Brokeback costume designer Marit Allen
The Daily Telegraph has published an obituary of British costume designer Marit Allen who died on November 26 2007. Among other projects, Marit was the designer of the iconic wardrobes of Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist. 'Marit Allen was the only costume designer to have worked on more than one of Ang Lee's films. She worked with him on Ride with the Devil, Hulk and, in 2005, Brokeback Mountain. For Brokeback Mountain she, Lee and the cinematographer, Rodrigo Preito, studied Richard Avedon's book Photographs of the American West. Marit Allen said: "Heath (Ledger) was deeply involved with his character. He worked with his clothes, using everything he wears to convey Ennis' repression - the jackets, done up; the cowboy hats, to hide behind. Between him and Jake (Gyllenhaal) the hats became an integral part of what they were doing."' It's difficult to imagine how the clothes worn by Jack and Ennis in Brokeback Mountain could have been more evocative of time, place or character, or how any actor could have used the clothing - especially the hats - with any more feeling for their characters' questions and struggles than Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger."
With all due respect, I do not agree with Annie Proulx about the two portaits of R.W.
I think, contrary to what she wrote, that dresses are the same - sure, he has got a new shirt, same style - but his face is certainly not the same.
One is a big teenage puppy, the other a young hunk man.
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:) So great to read Ms. Allen's views on Heath's and Jake's interpretations, by wardrobe, of Ennis and Jack.
Their participation went far beyond the call of duty; and I thank Ms. Allen, Heath and Jake for everything they did.
kathy
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There is one more interesting aspect to Avedon’s book.
Look where it all started. In Ennis, of all places
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^^^^^^^^^^
That's one helluva coincidence!
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^^^^^^^^^^
That's one helluva coincidence!
**I know. I could hardly believe it when I read this.**
kathy
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thanks, FoS, for the wonderful info and jpg about wheatcroft, avendon, and allen! i have been to ennis, MT. it is a lovely little town. i guess it's a fishing town, as a lot of folks go there to fish the madison river, which snakes right through the town.
also, i don't know who lives there, but below the town of ennis on the west side of the highway that sort of follows the river south was a ranch/homestead called Lonesome Dove.
LOL chuck, on the chicken bucket. :D
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^^^^
My pleasure
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Duh.............................................................I dunno
But I got one fer you....down here.
.
.
.
.
...............an' I LUV this one ;D ;D ;D
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That beautiful pic of Mike Hartman should be in the cowboy thread, too! Beautiful looking man!
Great job on the sheet as usual, y'all!
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In the first article, .....And WTK is Fracking??, I learned about
fracking last year and one of the CSI episodes did an story about it!
Look for the re-run!
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Bird Cloud is being serialised on BBC Radio 4 at the moment. It is nothing less than wonderful.
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I have heard some of it, and I agree. I might try and listen to the bits I've missed on "catch up" tomorrow if I can.
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I LOVE Topo Gigio!
Keees me, Lyle! :-*
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Don't remember the artist involved, but he was big on The Ed Sullivan Show waaay back when!
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Topo Gigio sings "Funiculi-Funicula" on The Ed Sullivan Show
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=garNxavx8gY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=garNxavx8gY)
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The Convergence Winter 2011 Issue that contains this article is available for puchase on the Autry website. The cost is $ 5.00 plus $ 7.50 shipping.
http://shop.theautry.org/browse.cfm/convergence-winter-2011/4,490.html (http://shop.theautry.org/browse.cfm/convergence-winter-2011/4,490.html)
Artifacts of Love and Violence:
From Riverton to San Francisco
by Gregory Hinton
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Howdy from the top of the Santa Monica Mountains. Can't tell you how pleasantly surprised I was when The Autry magazine arrived in my mailbox! The Museum membership has been worth every penny!
Up coming event of interest to SoCal Brokies: "Hot Rodeo," the IGRA Rodeo in Palm Springs runs from April 29th thru May 1st. (It's lookin' like I'll be ready to ride by then.)
http://palmspringsrodeo.org/ (http://palmspringsrodeo.org/)
Hope to see some of you there!
Jim
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Rita Wilson:
Well this one is kinda tricky. She played a recurring role, as an adult, as a nurse on "Mash".
However, I think, and she talks about this, her "TV debut" was on the "Brady Bunch" in an episode in which she played a high school cheerleader.
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The March 29th TDS has one of the most gorgeous photos of Elizabeth Taylor, ever!
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Iconic Castro Bookstore Going Out of Business
It looks like the final chapter has arrived for one of the cultural landmarks of San Francisco’s gay community.
The Castro’s A Different Light Bookstore, one of the few remaining LGBT bookstores in the United States, is apparently closing. This comes on the heels of the closure of the Mission's Modern Times, another independent progressive bookstore.
I hate when any bookstores are going out of business lately and this
one hurts alot...
(I used to be privy to dozens of Indie and chain bookstores within a mile
radious of where I live...now, I can think of 3.)
There is so much value to people gathering together at bookstores and sharing
things there, with customers, authors and the employees...I really hate what is
being lost...
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When we went shopping in Chelmsford yesterday we noticed that one of the Waterstones branches, the biggest one, had closed down. It was obviously because they had taken over another chain, and didn't need to have two branches in one town. Waterstones is also owned by HMV which is in all kinds of trouble financially, because people download music and films on line.
I wonder where all this is going to end really.
A lot of libraries are threatened here because of government / council cuts.
I don't see how it can be otherwise really when so much of the information which used to only be available through research in books, is now available on line through computers and smart phones.
I feel sure that books, as such, will survive, at least to some deegree, even if we do all read from our "Kindles" too, I am not so sure about CD's / DVD's, it is still nice to be able to buy them ready prepared if one wants to give either music or a film as a gift.
So it isn't just LGBT book shops that are closing, it is pretty universal, and I am not too sure what we can do about it.
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Is there also a move in Britain to keep the electorate uneducated like there is here?
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No, I wouldn't have said so. There are a large group of young people who think it isn't cool to know anything, and if you have actually read a book, you are a "boff" and beneath contempt, but we do try to change their attitudes.
Our TV is of a much higher standard typically than that we found in the USA, although of course many American programmes are superb, but even so a lot of British TV is still dire.
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Montgomery Clift is the subject of the song "The Right Profile" on The Clash's album "London Calling".
He is referred to in the Jets to Brazil song, "Conrad" on their album, "Orange Rhyming Dictionary".
And he is the subject of R.E.M.`s song "Monty Got a Raw Deal", from their LP "Automatic For the People".
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^^^^
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**Just a comment to TDS re the beautiful "Forever Heath" photo:
I love/miss him more and more. There are times I cannot believe he's gone; I wish I could have saved him.**
kathy :-* :'(
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^^^^
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Montgomery Clift was around when I was quite a young child, but whenever I see him in old films I think he was absolutely gorgeous.
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no takers on the fun question of the week?
here's a clue: the british drag-wearing star was cast somewhat recently opposite a young star sporting sparkling blue eyes.
:D
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^^^^^
Entirely thanks to google: Ian McKellen in a school production of "The Beauty Contest"
Whose are the sparkling blue eyes then?
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Sparkling blue eyes?
Gotta be Jake. 8)
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Ian is correct!!
wishful thinking Sonja!
Ian Mckellen starred with Elijah Wood in those hobbity movies..... gandalf and frodo. :D
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Oh, those sparkly blue eyes....!!
Why didn't you tell us he had curly hair on his feet?
Would've been a lot easier.... ::) :D
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Thanks, y'all! Hope those interested in reading the interview will enjoy it!
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Very cool interview, Fritz!!! I'm glad you got the chance to do it!
;D
TDS staff, thanks for highlighting the trip to Alberta and the movie filming locations that BetterMost is planning. As someone who was on the trip in 2009, I can totally recommend it. The accomadations are comfortable, the hiking is great, and you will really be struck by the beauty you will see.
Here is a tip for those who do opt to take the trip, it's helpful to print out 8 X 10 versions of screen caps, so you can hold it up to compare to the real area you are standing in, it helps.
Here I am at Ennis & Alma's apartment.
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Thanks, Chuck!
And much to Brandon de Wilde's disappointment, Alan Ladd kept riding away, not even looking back to his pleas. When I was very young, I sympathized more with the kid, but in later life realized the wisdom of Shane's not responding.
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**My brother loved the film Shane (at that time drive-ins were still in operation, so that's where the family went to see it, me with my teddy bear and in pajamas). I saw it again later & loved it. Alan Ladd gave such a great performance, the best in his life. Such a good actor, sooo good looking, who was another one of the "taken for granted" very big stars. Of course, "ampas" never even nominated him for Best Actor. They were/are jackasseses.
I was never sure if Shane was mortally wounded when he rode away from Joey; it was so sad.**
kathy
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Thanks, y'all! Hope those interested in reading the interview will enjoy it!
loved the interview, fritz. It really gave much more insight into your fascinating quest! the numbers are staggering, just like the blogger said... the border stories were interesting, LOL. they probably saw you in their binocs going back and forth and thought,,,,what in sam hell?? i guess you're lucky they treated you nicely!
geaux counters! :D :D
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Very cool interview, Fritz!!! I'm glad you got the chance to do it!
;D
TDS staff, thanks for highlighting the trip to Alberta and the movie filming locations that BetterMost is planning. As someone who was on the trip in 2009, I can totally recommend it. The accomadations are comfortable, the hiking is great, and you will really be struck by the beauty you will see.
Here is a tip for those who do opt to take the trip, it's helpful to print out 8 X 10 versions of screen caps, so you can hold it up to compare to the real area you are standing in, it helps.
Here I am at Ennis & Alma's apartment.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi327.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk463%2Fdcfmod%2FBrokeback%2520Locations%2FJackFuckinTwist3.jpg&hash=fd8fe6f311b599eeabf0a7c025e14be89207f453)
great pic! wish this was in the daily sheet zone! the trip sounds like a blast, chuck. please provide fun details in the coming weeks and keep us updated on how the event is shaping up! last I heard, those stairs were needing work. I do hope those iconic locations are preserved somewhat.
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**My brother loved the film Shane (at that time drive-ins were still in operation, so that's where the family went to see it, me with my teddy bear and in pajamas). I saw it again later & loved it. Alan Ladd gave such a great performance, the best in his life. Such a good actor, sooo good looking, who was another one of the "taken for granted" very big stars. Of course, "ampas" never even nominated him for Best Actor. They are so stupid.
I was never sure if Shane was mortally wounded when he rode away from Joey; it was so sad.**
kathy
great drive in story, Kathy. sounds like you were about shane's age!
I saw this just now, the SHANE movie in 3 minutes,,, it made me chuckle... ;) :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9piQu2TDvEA
that little kid is so cute, wow!
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**Well, we sure know the name of the title character Alan Ladd played!
Ahem. I should have mentioned that I saw SHANE at the drive-in on a RE-RELEASE (!) showing. Honestly, I wasn't nearly as old as Joey, with my teddy bear & in my pajamas.
Reminds me of the time when KING KONG was shown at the same drive-in on a RE-RELEASE showing. It was so mobbed; my daddy didn't like parking the car in the next to last row!
Such classic films; they really do last forever (as we know of others too...)
kathy :)
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OOPS
sorry kathy! I meant the age of the KID in Shane.... not Shane, ...and the kid in the movie, not the actor. cuz I could picture him clutching s Teddy bear. and a bb gun, lol...
It's too bad drive in movies are so darn rare,,, there are a few down here in LA, I think. one in riverside, maybe. I used to go to them too, in the seventies, in Colorado. the theatre was across from an army base (Fitzsimmons) on east colfax avenue. great fun for sure! i spent most of the time outside of the car as they had a playground for kids up front. it was neat to swing or climb around with that huge screen looming overhead, the smell of popcorn, soda, and beer in the air. cigarette smoke too, as I recall. I can almost hear the crunch of gravel, and can definitely picture the snack bar. I remember having to wait a while to let my eyes adjust from the snack bar's bright interior glare before making our way back to the car. and finding your vehicle in the dark could be an ordeal! we had a cream colored ford Torino wagon back then.
One movie I remember seeing was "the sting"... even at my age, I thought Robert Redford was dreamy and cute, and I bugged my dad to take me to the store later that week for scott Joplin piano sheet music. ;)
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It warms my heart to read folks talking about Shane. I saw it when it first came out, and it was received as a masterpiece right from the start.
The question of whether Shane rode off with a soon-to-become fatal wound was never answered by any of the movie principals...at least not publicly. Jack Schaefer was author of the book Shane, but A. B. Guthrie, Jr was the writer of the screenplay, and he (and George Stevens) made several significant changes to the book. I'd love to read the screenplay, but dumb me, I don't know how to find it.
In the meantime, I checked the book out of the library, and found out Schaefer left the question unanswered in his book also. If you're interested, here are a few of the differences I discovered between the book and the film.
(In the movie the boy was named Joey. In the book he was named Bob, sometimes called Bobby.)
In the book, as Shane confronts Wilson (Jack Palance), they both shoot virtually simultaneously. Shane's shot shatters Wilson's right arm (he is right handed) causing him to drop his revolver, but as he staggers back against the wall behind him, he attempts to draw his left revolver with this left hand (he is an ambidextrous killer; that's why he carries two guns). Shane shoots again, hitting Wilson in the chest, killing him.
Bobby says, "...I noticed the dark brown of his [Shane's] shirt, low and just above the belt to one side of the buckle, the darker spot gradually widening." Wilson's only shot hit Shane in the gut.
In the book, that is the only shot to hit Shane. Fletcher fires from the balcony behind Shane, but misses, shattering the front window. As Fletcher attempts to aim his second shot, Shane whirls and shoots him dead. (Bobby does not cry out a warning in the book; Fletcher's wild first shot is what warns Shane.)
The gunfight over, Shane reloads his pistol as he backs away from the bystanders toward the saloon door. He speaks to them in that gentle voice with that quiet inflexible quality: "I'll be riding on now. And there's not a one of you that will follow." None of them do.
Shane leaves, mounts his horse, and Bobby, previously hiding and silent but now filled with unstoppable urgency, races to catch him and does. Shane does what he can to calm the boy, saying a few things he knows Bobby needs to hear. Finally,
"There no going back from a killing, Bob. Right or wrong, the brand sticks and there's no going back. It's up to you now. Go home to your mother and father. Grow strong and straight and take care of them. Both of them."
"Yes, Shane."
"There's only one thing more I can do for them now."
And Shane slowly rides away.
We read Bobby's thoughts:
"He was riding away, and I knew that no word or thought could hold him"
...
"I strained my eyes after him, and then in the moonlight I could make out the inalienable outline of his figure receding into the distance. Lost in my loneliness, I watched him go, out of town, far down the road where it curved out to the level country beyond the valley."
...
"A cloud passed over the moon, and he merged into the general shadow and I could not see him and the cloud passed on and the road was a plain thin ribbon to the horizon and he was gone."
**********************************
That's some damned good writing, I think. It would be almost fifty years until I encountered its equal. And when I did, I found that some new great screenwriters had changed some new great story lines into another new great masterpiece.
~~~fia
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OOPS
sorry kathy! I meant the age of the KID in Shane.... not Shane, ...and the kid in the movie, not the actor. cuz I could picture him clutching s Teddy bear. and a bb gun, lol...
It's too bad drive in movies are so darn rare,,, there are a few down here in LA, I think. one in riverside, maybe. I used to go to them too, in the seventies, in Colorado. the theatre was across from an army base (Fitzsimmons) on east colfax avenue. great fun for sure! i spent most of the time outside of the car as they had a playground for kids up front. it was neat to swing or climb around with that huge screen looming overhead, the smell of popcorn, soda, and beer in the air. cigarette smoke too, as I recall. I can almost hear the crunch of gravel, and can definitely picture the snack bar. I remember having to wait a while to let my eyes adjust from the snack bar's bright interior glare before making our way back to the car. and finding your vehicle in the dark could be an ordeal! we had a cream colored ford Torino wagon back then.
One movie I remember seeing was "the sting"... even at my age, I thought Robert Redford was dreamy and cute, and I bugged my dad to take me to the store later that week for scott Joplin piano sheet music. ;)
**Oh, you're forgiven. I knew what you really meant regarding Joey's age. :D
The drive-in where I saw SHANE and KING KONG is still in operation here! I think it's the only one around for miles. It has been written up in newspapers articles as "one of the last ones" still in business. And I share your memories re the surroundings of the drive-in too. I remember the playground in front of the huge screen. But my parents wouldn't let me go 'cause they thought I was too small. What a lot of fun; my daddy was always the one to get snacks at the famous snack bar. One time he spilled all the contents before getting in the car. Oh, what a night that was! And if the lights went out before someone got back to the car before the next film started and all was dark - well, you were walking around for a long time looking for the car. (!)
kathy
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:) Hi fia -- Re: SHANE
What a great film. So many things remind me of BBM: Wyoming, (two) tragic heroes, one speaking only when needed, very sad stories and endings...What I'm trying to say is that BOTH SHARE IN COMMON THE "CLASSIC FILM MASTERPIECES" title.
Your post brought back so many things I'd forgotten. I didn't remember A.B. Guthrie, Jr. writing the screenplay (what a good job that was)! I do recall my brother having the paperback version of the novel and his telling me the film was different in some ways.
Thx also for the info about the novel vs. the film. It brings back a lot. That was a real bad shoot-out and the ending was so sad; I thought for sure Shane was dying, the way he rode away with his arm just hanging down - barely.
Yup. It took a very long time (though I have to say there are many great westerns in the meantime) to have great screenwriters change a ss into another screen masterpiece, another one film that will last forever.**
kathy :)
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it all makes me wish i'd seen Shane at the drive-in!
and now, I would like to read the book as well...!
:::looking to see if it's available as a free download:::
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:) :)
kathy
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This week's question: What American film classic did actor John Wayne call "the most un-American thing I've ever seen in my whole life"?
Hmmm...without doing any research I'd like to offer up some ideas on this one.
I know Mr. Wayne was very outspoken about his politics, especially in the 60's. I was
wondering, as many thought High Noon was a communist manifesto if it was High Noon,
but I'm going to guess it was something later than that. Although nothing from the 60's
is coming to mind right now. I heard he wasn't too thrilled with The Deer Hunter, but
that doesn't seem so polarizing. Maybe it was an off the wall choice like The Graduate.
Well, now that I've started I can't come up with a choice... Maybe Brokeback Mountain?
I just think High Noon was too early...although it sparked a lot of controversy and that
cost it the best picture win, so that an inferior film won--The Greatest Show on Earth.
Sound familiar? I don't have a guess now!
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**I believe it was High Noon, but I'm not sure; director Howard Hawks objected strongly to it and several yrs. later in 1958 he directed Rio Bravo, with John, Dean Martin, and Rick Nelson to offset the "tone" of High Noon. Mr. Hawks mentioned this many times; he directed John many times (I loved him in Red River), as did John Ford as we know. Great directors.
John accepted the Best Actor Award for Gary Cooper's performance in High Noon; Gary had asked him to and they were friends. He deserved the Best Actor award. (I think they are the two greatest western stars of all time).
And the Greatest Show on Earth was made in 1952, not 1951.
But there was a lot of friction anytime stanley kramer produced a film (High Noon) in the early '50's; he was not very popular with a lot of people. I heard a story too that John objected to The Deer Hunter, but was not too vocal about it. He was in poor health at that time but still gave the award for Best Picture (correct ?) to it. It was very sad to see him so ill.
Now to get to 1950: The film that won Best Picture for 1950 was All About Eve, a very good film. But there was great competition that year, first w/Bette Davis' and Anne Baxter's roles in All About Eve both nominated for best actress, and with Billy Wilder's great Sunset Blvd.(my favorite), and Gloria Swanson's and Wm. Holden's performances up for the best; they deserved it, but of course ampas just couldn't decide. Plus, Mr. Wilder had had a lot of grief from the aging moguls due to the truth portrayed in Sunset Blvd.
Soooo, they did what they usually do - picked some other actor's and actress' inferior roles for best actor & actress. (Jose Ferrer and Judy Holliday).
Some things never change w/them. I'm not surprised. What a bunch of jackasses.
kathy :)
p.s. Today is John's b-day, born 5/26/07. He passed away in June 1979; the "big C" that he thought was licked in the '60's was the cause.
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**Brokeback Mountain should definitely have been #1 in the Stonewall poll.
I just can't see it coming it at number three, below the other ones mentioned. It's superior in every way. Heath and Jake ... everything about it... is perfection.**
kathy
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**p.s. It's me again -- with just a question --
That BBM "get together" in AU - is it derogatory in any way? It just doesn't seem to be depicted as, well...respectful of our film.
Don't you agree?**
kathy >:(
p.s. I know, I know - I get very defensive of Brokeback Mountain whenever something like this type of "ad" appears. Doesn't look good to me.
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It's a gay club in AU.
Looks like a drag show.
I'm sure they'll have some BBM jokes in the show, but I wouldn't call it derogatory. Maybe some tacky jokes, but like I said, it's a drag show. :D
It looks like fun to me.
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Drag is a part of Western gay culture; it is often noted that the Stonewall riots on June 27, 1969 in New York City were inspired and led by drag queens, and, in part for this reason, drag queens remain a tradition at gay pride events. Prominent drag queens in the gay community of a city often serve as official or unofficial spokespersons, hosts or emcees, fund-raisers, chroniclers and community leaders.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_queen)
Here's a good site with some drag history:
http://www.queermusicheritage.us/drag.html (http://www.queermusicheritage.us/drag.html)
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It is a shame though that the general public often think that "drag queens" is what being gay is all about. I have a felling that one of the things that so upset the more bigotted types about Brokeback Mountain was that it showed that a man could just be an "ordinary joe" and still be gay.
What do other people think?
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Gee, this is an eye-opening Fun question.
The movie was High Noon, but the story behind Wayne's disdain leads to a whole 'nuther world, and the communist witch hunt in the early 50s. But it began in the 30s.
Many young Americans entering adulthood during the depression grasped for answers about why the American economy stifled their aspirations. Many wondered if Communist Russia had a better answer. Franklin Roosevelt publicly praised Stalin's Russia as an amazing attempt to transform a peasant society into a 20th century state. A lot of young people wanted to know if the Russians knew something we didn't.
It appealed especially to young intellectuals. They wanted to do something about the depression, and they were willing to explore anything that might improve things. Many went to neighborhood meetings to hear communist speakers explain their philosophy. Many of the speakers promised Utopia, and some of the youngsters joined the party "just to see if it really worked". Some joined only to accommodate their naive friends.
But the vast majority that signed up soon tired of it and quit attending. Word was getting out that things were not all that good in Russia. In some areas there was mass starvation.
WWII overwhelmed American interest in Russian economics; they were suddenly some of our best friends, helping us defeat Hitler. But when the fighting stopped, we realized that the Russian armies were occupying half of Europe. And they stayed there. All of a sudden, they were a menace. Heck, they might decide to sweep across the rest of Europe and own it all. Except for one small detail.
We had the atomic bomb. They didn't.
What about economics? Fugitit. The war and our fantastic natural resources had made us the Kings of Capitalism. Everyone found work, everyone had a house and a car. Who needed to consider communist economics anymore? Certainly none of those kids who had looked for answers 15 years earlier.
But we did have one important problem. The Russians wanted the A-bomb, and any nuclear physics they couldn't figure out for themselves, they determined to steal from whoever had it. That meant the US and England. They recruited moles and spies. We knew it and fought it, but eventually they got the bomb also.
So the idea of a Cold War and Russian spies became reality. There were some, of course, but we started imaging them everywhere.
Some political "intellectuals" thought they perceived communist propaganda in movies. These movies, by and large, were movies that essentially dramatized the inequalities in American society. But just to be safe, the politicians decided to take a look into the communist influence in Hollywood.
So the House Un-American Activities Committee set out to nail commies in the film industry (whether there were any or not). Any person's previous association was regarded as damning evidence.
John Wayne was the loose-cannon president of the "Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals", a small, short-lived group of screen people who wanted the country to see how patriotic and God-fearing they were, as they plunged knives into the backs of others who they didn't like. They happily passed the names of "possible commies" to the HUAC, who ultimately tortured those people under oath. If the victims refused to turn in their "communist contacts" by taking the 5th amendment, they were declared "an uncooperative witness;" not a felony, but an infuriating escape from justice, in the eyes of the Committee.
The Committee was not interested in whether an individual had innocently explored communism when they were young. They did not ask "Are you a Communist?" They asked, "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?" A youthful exploration 15 years earlier (and in a different milieu) was no excuse. They wanted bodies to pillory today.
Ten were eventually proven to have lied to the Committee when asked about whether they actually joined (the old membership lists magically turned up). They got jail sentences. But the Committee was miffed about "uncooperative witnesses." The Hollywood Moguls came to their rescue. The Moguls drew up the infamous "Blacklist", a pact by the major studios not to hire anyone who defied the Committee.
The studios, desperate to demonstrate their unbounded love for the American way of life, hoped to earn the gratitude of the Committee and the country. Dozens of actors, writers, producers and directors who refused to betray youthful friends wound up on the list, their careers ruined.
Eighteen year-old Carl Foreman joined the Communist Party while in college (1932).
He quit about 10 years later, served honorably in the US Army during WWII.
John Wayne "turned in" Carl Foreman, High Noon's screen writer.
(Foreman was nominated for an Oscar for Best Screen Play)
Carl Foreman refused to "turn in" any of his old friends to the Committee.
They labeled him "an uncooperative witness"
Hollywood blacklisted him
Within a year, he had to move to England where his writing talents could earn a living.
He came back to the US 30 years later, the blacklist long forgotten by then,
only to die of cancer two years later.
In 1952, John Wayne was the acknowledged Hollywood Hero of American values. A movie war hero, and a movie western hero, he was always the hero. (In real life he was never in the military, even during the war. He never shot an indian or an outlaw or anyone else. Alas, he was only an actor.)
Carl Foreman was a behind-the-scenes screen writer with liberal ideas and the ability to adapt them to the screen. He also had a jaded view of heroism and the reluctance of ordinary people to confront drawn guns. Ironically, he also had a jaded view of authority, whether Congress's or Stalin's. But he did think loyalty was a virtue.
Wayne was offered the starring role in High Noon. Contemptuous, he said (paraphrased) "No thanks, it stinks. Those good old American folks are shown as wimps and the Sheriff comes to hate the law". The role went to Cooper.
I don't know if this is what caused the animosity between Wayne and Foreman, or whether it already existed. But it was real.
Years later, when asked about it, Wayne said (in Playboy, May 1971):
“It’s the most un-American thing I’ve ever seen in my whole life. The last thing in the picture
is ol’ Coop putting the United States marshall’s badge under his foot and stepping on it.”
“I’ll never regret having helped run Foreman out of the country…”
Our hero.
Gee, be careful with those Fun Questions of the Week, huh?
~~~fia
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I was interested in the report that said that gay men suffered higher rates of cancer than straight men. If as it states there is a higher incidence of anal cancer because of the Human Pappiloma Virus then there are measures that can be taken striaght away. All teenage girls are routinely given a vaccination against HPV here, just give it to the boys as well, and the incidence of this cancer should lessen dramatically.
Also, why not give it to gay men, on request.
It would do no harm, and would potentially do much good in saving lives.
After that it would be easier to see what other differences are apparent in cancer rates due to other less understood causes.
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It is a shame though that the general public often think that "drag queens" is what being gay is all about. I have a felling that one of the things that so upset the more bigotted types about Brokeback Mountain was that it showed that a man could just be an "ordinary joe" and still be gay.
What do other people think?
I think the bigger shame is people thinking there's anything shameful about drag. That's something that has been done more than a few times even here on the forum. And all I have to say on that subject is kiss my Brokeback Fuckin' Ass.
When my 'ordinary joe' friends were dying there were a lot of drag queens who stood up to raise money, collect food, obtain medicine, and clean up the shit and the blood and the vomit.
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I wasn't suggesting that there was anything wrong with drag queens, John, just that there is so much more to being gay than that, and many straight people don't realise that and expect all gay men to fit that stereotype, which they don't.
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**John Wayne is one of the greatest actors the screen ever had. So is Gary Cooper. Greatest western actors ever (and in all other ranges too). Legendary stars, tall and handsome in the saddle, who along with so many others of the past, deserve all the fame and praise that are given them.
Why John is picked on is because he was a legend and one of the largest stars films ever had. Robt. Taylor too; one of the handsomest men on screen ever, enormous star in his time, did testify and did not want to one bit. (And - John's name is John Wayne, not just "Wayne", as disdainfully posted, and he is "our hero" to a great many).
I disagree completely with the reply re the HUAC in the late '40's. The press picked on major stars who were part of a group that supported the HUAC Committee and were on the conservative side. Robert Taylor was FORCED by MGM to appear in a pro-Russia film that he did not want to do. He was also FORCED to go to Wash., DC to testify - which he did not want to do.
C. B. DeMille was one of the committee's most fervent backers, as were Adolphe Menjou, Ronald Reagan, Walt Disney (whom I love), Ward Bond, director Sam Wood, director Howard Hawks, Mrs. Lela Rogers (Ginger's mom), even Gary C. testified. I don't know if they "named names" and I don't care. Some of the so-called "Hollywood 10" that were blacklisted were the biggest Russia/Communist lovers (e.g. C. Foreman and D. Trumbo) in the business with long histories of being Party Members for many many years, so let's be fair about everything. Even the biggest moguls, the heads of the studios, were all for the HUAC on un-American activities in the motion picture industry.
I do not give a damn about anyone's views on politics. It should be remembered that the U.S. in the late '40's and early '50s were under the Red Scare for years. Seems like everyone was looking over their shoulders.
What I definitely don't like is the derogatory nature in which John is pictured. This was later done to Charlton Heston for his views on politics in the '80's and '90's. It was awful - the things they said about him.
Yes, John is a legend and a hero; there is noone like him and never will be. This is said on behalf of his acting, his enormous presence on screen, his personality - well, I can go on and on. I say the same for Charlton. I don't care what their political views are. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion(s).**
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^^^
just go ahead and call him the Duke, like his friends did.
Or else call him Marion, his real first name.
;)
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haha, marion!
i knew a guy named marion, but he went by mac... and not just because his wife's name happened to be marian too. ;)
It is a shame though that the general public often think that "drag queens" is what being gay is all about. I have a felling that one of the things that so upset the more bigotted types about Brokeback Mountain was that it showed that a man could just be an "ordinary joe" and still be gay.
What do other people think?
you may be onto something. i don't recall so many people getting upset over "to wong fu" or "the birdcage", but then again, BBM is apparently the highest grossing, and probably the most widely popular "gay" film. "gay" in quotes because.... it's not really about the gay scene at all. the gayest it got, really, was the mexican alley.)
anyway, we have to remember that the whole concept of drag queens in hollywood has been around much, much longer than gay cowboys. :D
what surprises (or doesn't surprise) me is that disney and other animation houses seem to love incorporating drag queen or effeminate characters into their animated movies.... often followed with looks of disgust or disdain, or even a verbal "UGH!" or "YICK!" from the mouths of "normal" characters. :P
as far as people thinking that all gay people are drag queens, or pansies or sissies, is also partly because, i think, the way they are portrayed in the media. i remember, when i had TV, that whenever they covered the gay pride parades on the news, even in the SF bay area, it was always about the transvestites and the bondage/S&M scene, or the sexuality. they never focused on more ordinary gays! >:(
of course, there are many people, including gay men, that think even having a parade to celebrate diversity is "too gay" or otherwise inappropriate or offensive, no matter what they people look like... there could be gay football players (or gay cowboys) marching by, and they'd still think it was disgusting. most straight people, IMO, want to keep the whole concept of "gay" shoved in the closet.
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Gee, be careful with those Fun Questions of the Week, huh?
~~~fia
LMAO.
well, it's not like you don't say much, but you get your point across...
and you did get the question right! ;)
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I think the bigger shame is people thinking there's anything shameful about drag. That's something that has been done more than a few times even here on the forum. And all I have to say on that subject is kiss my Brokeback Fuckin' Ass.
When my 'ordinary joe' friends were dying there were a lot of drag queens who stood up to raise money, collect food, obtain medicine, and clean up the shit and the blood and the vomit.
and don't forget, it was a high heel shoe tossed through the air at the police that started the stonewall riots. that single shoe marked the beginning of change, kick-starting the whole gay rights movement in the USA.
i would love to see a movie, directed by ang lee, showing that high heel in slo-mo, flyin through the air,,, either windmilling toe over heel, or spiraling like a football, in all it's glittery rhinestone glory. ;D
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^^^
a stonewall movie directed by ang lee, and also starring jake gyllenhaal as a kick-ass drag queen.
a gay drag queen, too. not just your ordinary straight guy that likes to dress in panty hose. (like joe namath, lol)
:D
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haha, marion!
i knew a guy named marion, but he went by mac... and not just because his wife's name happened to be marian too. ;)
you may be onto something. i don't recall so many people getting upset over "to wong fu" or "the birdcage", but then again, BBM is apparently the highest grossing, and probably the most widely popular "gay" film. "gay" in quotes because.... it's not really about the gay scene at all. the gayest it got, really, was the mexican alley.)
anyway, we have to remember that the whole concept of drag queens in hollywood has been around much, much longer than gay cowboys. :D
what surprises (or doesn't surprise) me is that disney and other animation houses seem to love incorporating drag queen or effeminate characters into their animated movies.... often followed with looks of disgust or disdain, or even a verbal "UGH!" or "YICK!" from the mouths of "normal" characters. :P
as far as people thinking that all gay people are drag queens, or pansies or sissies, is also partly because, i think, the way they are portrayed in the media. i remember, when i had TV, that whenever they covered the gay pride parades on the news, even in the SF bay area, it was always about the transvestites and the bondage/S&M scene, or the sexuality. they never focused on more ordinary gays! >:(
of course, there are many people, including gay men, that think even having a parade to celebrate diversity is "too gay" or otherwise inappropriate or offensive, no matter what they people look like... there could be gay football players (or gay cowboys) marching by, and they'd still think it was disgusting. most straight people, IMO, want to keep the whole concept of "gay" shoved in the closet.
Thanks, Jimmy.
I can only speak from the point of view of the straight community, but I think there is an element that says, "these people are all weirdos who dress up as women, and therefore it is OK for us to despise them."
Brokeback pointed out that, in fact, your friend down the road, who seemed just like anyone else, and didn't wear dresses or lipstick, could be gay too, and you hadn't realised it.
I think it unsettled them.
(Just must point out again, that is not my view, everyone should be whatever they are, and if that includes dressing up, so be it).
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^^^
just go ahead and call him the Duke, like his friends did.
Or else call him Marion, his real first name.
;)
**I know, Ellen. Marion Michael Morrison; he always said it. He said to Johnny Carson once: "How about that name?" Ha!
(I call him John only because John was my daddy's name; it's just sentimental for me to do it, though he was always Jack or Jackie).
But you are right, everyone calls him Duke, and I like that you said "like his friends did". That makes me happy.
kathy :)
p.s. just a note - thx for your answer.
And - grrr - it's known over here - Heaven forbid anyone says anything against Peter O'Toole, the Duke, or Charlton Heston... ;)
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LMAO.
well, it's not like you don't say much, but you get your point across...
and you did get the question right! ;)
**How about "not right?**
kathy :)
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^^^friends can differ!
I respect your loyalty to your favorites, regarding their acting careers.
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:) :)
kathy
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a stonewall movie directed by ang lee, and also starring jake gyllenhaal as a kick-ass drag queen.
There "was" a movie made about Stonewall from 1995. It was called Stonewall.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.mymovies.ge%2Fposters%2F431%2F4d3430e35e73d6334d005431%2Fstonewall-original.jpg&hash=d77e78cd5331578cfda754b3e3c6c42a13e62d8b)
And FYI--Ang Lee's film Taking Woodstock touches on the Stonewall riot. The lead character comes
back from college in New York City to his family during the summer and there's a phone conversation
with him and one of his friends where they talk about it.
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As for John Wayne and Charlton Heston, when they become public speakers and
activists in the political arena, and you disagree with their advocacies, it becomes
harder to accept them in their roles when you see them in films. Not impossible,
but I cringe at times when seeing Heston in a film. I saw him on stage in the
Ahmanson production of Detective Story and I met him in person in Washington,
D.C. and I have to tell you my impression of him in person was not a favorable
one.
I came across Charlie Sheen in the film Eight Men Out today and I couldn't
stop thinking about what a sad idiot he's become. It affected my watching
his performance.
In the late 70's a gay artist painted a picture of John Wayne with lipstick on
and captioned it "It's a bitch being butch." The Wayne family sued the guy
for appropriating and demeaning his image. It made me wonder why they never
sued the 7-Up company when they had a John Wayne impersonator in drag on
a commercial. This was before the above. But Wayne was still around and I do
believe he had a sense of humor. He wouldn't have spoofed himself on variety
shows like Bob Hope's specials, Red Skelton, and Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In.
I don't think Heston had much of a sense of humor.
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Marion Michael Morrison; he always said it.
Wayne was born Marion Robert Morrison in Winterset, Iowa. His middle name was soon
changed from Robert to Mitchell when his parents decided to name their next son Robert.
According to imdb.
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**Dear Lyle:
Gosh, I never heard Duke say anything other than his name was "Marion Michael Morrison". I know his younger brother was named Robert, but this is the first I heard of anything like "Mitchell". This is a new thing to me.
I remember Duke being on the shows you mentioned. Remember that pink bunny suit on "Laugh In?" I could not believe he'd do that. I have to say, he did have such a sense of humor.
As for watching great actors in films, I never saw or viewed them by their political or personal beliefs. I just watched them give the performance. But Charlton's Moses is classic; so is The Ten Commandments; I love it. He was very good in Ben Hur, but he's always the best Moses ever. That Chuck - always half-dressed in a lot of his films to show off his physique; in The Big Country he had his shirt off and ...wow. And Duke - what a physique, what a walk. My brother has this calendar of him. In the younger pics, he had his shirt off too and...wow. And when he walked across the screen in Hondo - wow.
But still, anyone says something against my Peter O'Toole (talk about a great actor!; he's on the lean side but oh how beautifully handsome he was), Duke or Chuck and...well...grrrr
kathy ;)
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This week's question: What four 1939 Hollywood classics were honored on 25-cent stamps issued by the U.S. Postal Service in celebration of their 50th anniversaries?
Aah...nostalgia! For 25-cent stamps I mean! LOL!
Okay, I am going to take a stab at it!
Gone with the Wind
This has got to be one of them. No question.
The Wizard of Oz
I would imagine this to be a definite one, too. It's become such an
iconic film for many.
The other two, hmmm...that's going to take some more thinking...
Stagecoach
Although this film has never caught "my" fancy--I even saw an ampas screening of
it a couple years ago in all it's glory on the big screen, it just doesn't send me. But
many love it and consider it a forerunner of western filmmaking to follow.
My last choice could be any number of films from 1939!
Wuthering Heights
Something tells me it might not be as the other three films have distinctly American
components, but it's a film still thought of so highly, although that Capra film...(!)...is
a good possibility...
I was thinking it must have been a film popular enough to be nominated for best film,
but I suppose it doesn't have to be...although nothing that wasn't is coming to mind.
Judy G. was in Babes in Arms, but I doubt she'd be in two of the stamps honored.
Well, those are my guesses. Thing is, I think I bought a book of these stamps when
they came out and that I kept the booklet with one page with all 4 of them...somewhere...
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Thank you so much for putting my picture in the TDS! I feel very honoured. :-*
And thanks a lot for providing the designs for the brokie gifts!!
Best regards
The Official European BetterMost Bean Can Label Representative. ;) :D
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**The four 1939 classic films honored with a stamp on their 50th anniversaries --**
1. Gone With the Wind
2. Stagecoach
3. Beau Geste
4. The Wizard of Oz
Classics all, of course, but my always favorite is #1.
kathy
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Really, Beau Geste? I don't think I'd have ever thought of that one as
being more representative of 1939 film making than others of that year to be
honored with a stamp. Interesting. I like that film, but as I said above, it's not
really in line with the components of Americana as the other three. I really do
wonder why they chose that one?!
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:) Hi lyle --
I believe it was mostly because of Gary Cooper; not certain though. He was so popular; Beau Geste was a big success and directed by one of the best, Wm. Wellman, who gave Gary his big break in the silent Wings (first Best Picture winner; 1927-'28, I think.
The other directors were of the best too: Victor Fleming (#1 and most of #4; he was taken off it because D. Selznick wanted/needed him for GWTW); and last but not least John Ford (#2), giving the Duke his very big break.
kathy
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This week's question: What unique money-saving attachments did
Greta Garbo have installed in her Duesenberg automobile?
I know "John Steed" had a tea serving thing in his automobile, but I
don't know what Garbo had in hers to save money...
I am stumped! Unless it is some kind of grass cutters, 'cause didn't
Greta always say: "I vant to be a lawn."
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:D :D :D
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I was interested in the piece about different authors favourite books. Do any of our members have favourites that they would reccommend?
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Yes, Jess.
E M Forster's short stories, which I don't have to hand in BKK:The Celestial Omnibus (and other stories) (1911)
The Eternal Moment and other stories (1928)
Collected Short Stories (1947) a combination of the above two titles.
The Life to Come and other stories (1972) (posthumous) containing stories written between approximately 1903 and 1960.
While some of the stories published in his lifetime deal with internalized homophobia or heavily coded gay themes, others, especially the posthumously published ones, are very positively gay and good fun.
Lars Eighner Gay Cosmos, a collection of very thoughtful articles, one of which surveys some history of gay and lesbian relationships and same-sex marriage in a number of societies around the world and speculates about gays and their roles among our earliest ancestors. The evidence of his survey of the historical and anthropological literature makes absolute nonsense of claims about "traditional marriage".
(Patrick Gale's novels and short stories often include straightforwardly positive gay characters. I've just been re-reading his short story collection, Dangerous Pleasures and especially liked 'Old Boys'.)
On our book thread, I've mentioned in the past a couple of Colm Toibin's short stories which I like even more than his novels. I'm thinking of two stories set in Catalonia.
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^^^ "the obelisk" by e m forster is one of my most fave-ever short stories. it's a good fun one :)
gosh, i hope it's forster, it's been years since i read it. pretty sure it was in a collection of short stories (and excerpts) with gay themes, called "calamus". part of the wonderful robert musil story, "young torless", which was mentioned in the article, is in there too.
**it's surprising only one author mentioned BBM, but then again, it is a short story, not a book.
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The Obelisk is indeed one of Forster's wonderful short stories.
I have several anthologies of gay/homosexual literature or short stories back home in Melbourne. Most of them include some gems.
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I was surprised not to find David Leavitt on the panel, nor any of his titels on the list.
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Thank you for those suggestions, I haven't read much Forster. I am keen to read some of these stories because I feel it will help me to undertand better the gay perspective on life. Since coming here to the forum I have read and much enjoyed lots of Christopher Isherwood's books, and also one of my absolute favourites which I read and re-read, The Mayor of Castro Street by Randy Shilts, about the life of Harvey Milk.
Any further suggestions will be gratefully received.
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I think many of Forster's short stories are more accessible than his novels. Some are serious, some are fantasies, others are comic. He seems to have had a sense of humour that doesn't get much play in the novels, apart from some comic moments in books like A Room with a View.
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Tales of the City series by Armistead Maupin. I loved these books so much, back in the '80s. There was a TV series in the '90s, I think, with Olympia Dukakis. Maybe it's time to reread them.
The Perks of Being a Wallflower by Stephen Chbosky. A coming of age, Catcher-in-the-Rye type story. Maybe more of a teen book, and nobody seems to mention it now. My teenage son loved it.
Dream Boy by Jim Grimsley. Disturbing, magical story. It was later made into a film, but I felt the film lost something in translation.
Now and Then by William Corlett. Another story involving young love (schoolboys), this time from the perspective of one of the lovers looking back from middle age.
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Oh, the trivia question from last time actually meant safe literally! LOL!
From the new TDS:
Utah Democratic party elects openly gay chairman
“The whole gay thing just simply did not surface as an issue,” he told the Salt Lake Tribune. “People are broad-minded in Utah, and they want to know if you can do the job or not.”
Um, does he know that the Mormon church is located in Utah and how much
money they poured into CA to defeat Prop 8? Or maybe he doesn't consider
Mormons "Utahns".
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In a ‘quiet moment,’ gay judge makes history Really important moment.
Conservatives Blaming Obama For Penis Size Study Approved Under Bush If it's not a bad joke, it's an insulting and sad reality.
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Might as well be a gay Democratic chairman in Utah, since the church will tell its members to vote Republican anyway.
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What Hollywood movie star's contract included a morals clause that forbade "adulterous conduct or immoral relations" with men other than her husband?
I remember reading some article a number of years ago about this. It was Gloria Swanson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Swanson
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**I don't think it just Gloria. Will Hays in the 1920's (The Hays Code) along with the major movie moguls instituted a "morals clause" warning that actors & actresses should behave morally off the screen.
In the 1930's when Jos. Breen and the Breen Organization took over - boy did he take over - the morals clause still existed. In the later '30's some very famous couples were thought to be living together - e.g. C. Gable and C. Lombard, R. Taylor and B. Stanwyck, L. Olivier and V. Leigh, C. Chaplin and P. Goddard - and soon after they were "told" to get married. All did; but there was always confusion as to whether Chaplin & Goddard ever married. IMO they did not.**
kathy
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Regarding Rockmount western wear...if you're ever in the Denver area, be sure to stop by their retail store and museum. I spent several hours there one day back in 1998, and would love to visit again.
http://www.rockmount.com/our_story.htm
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**The first western to win a Best Picture Oscar is "Cimarron" (1930-1931). It stars Richard Dix and Irene Dunne. Wesley Ruggles was the director; RKO Radio pictures released it.
I always liked Cimarron a lot. Richard Dix is so handsome, we always saw his chest, and his name in the movie is "Yancey Cravat" - what a name! And it was Irene Dunne's first movie; she looks very pretty. I saw it again recently on TCM and it is as good as I remember.**
kathy :)
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Thanks for a spotlight on the "Queens & Cowboys" documentary. I can't wait to see this completed. According to the website there's going to be a story in The Advocate as well.
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The last 2 months of TDS have really been disappointing.
After spending nearly 3 years and a lot of money on the S.F. show I thought I could have expected AT LEAST a link at the bottom of each issue.
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Just a note to the editors and researchers of TDS in the current edition:
**Thx so much for posting the original poster for Cimarron. I love seeing it in color; it looks great.**
kathy :-*
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RE: Beyond Brokeback's Chicago Premiere
see message:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=42167.msg2136972#msg2136972 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=42167.msg2136972#msg2136972)
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Thanks for that, John! :)
Diana is such a classy woman!
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This week's question: Which of these female recording artists was the first to achieve 32 consecutive top ten hits in the UK?
A. Kate Bush
B. Dusty Springfield
C. Madonna
D. Annie Lennox
E. Mariah Carey
I'll give this a try. I don't believe it would be Kate Bush. She is definitely talented, but in her career has only released like 10 albums, so not really enough material there to yield 32 top ten hits. Dusty, another very popular musical artist in the U.K. as well as the U.S. She made the top 100 many times, but I don't believe she cracked the top 10 enough times to make the cut in this question.
Madonna has released like a dozen albums, but unlike the other artists listed above, most of her albums produce several hit singles. I know as of five or so years ago, she had more top 10 singles than Elvis Presley, and several of her albums debuted at #1, not just here by in the U.K. and dozens of other countries.
Annie Lennox, I love her work, especially with the Eurythmics, and she is highly respected in the U.K, but simply not enough recorded material released to achieve 32 top 10 singles. Carey, the youngest of the set and a great performer, but has had only 2 or 3 hit singles in the U.K.
I'm going to go with C., Madonna....final answer. :D ;D
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Madonna has released like a dozen albums, but unlike the other artists listed above, most of her albums produce several hit singles. I know as of five or so years ago, she had more top 10 singles than Elvis Presley, and several of her albums debuted at #1, not just here by in the U.K. and dozens of other countries.
I'm going to go with C., Madonna....final answer. :D ;D
I'm gonna have to back you up on this one, Charlie. ;D
I'm a huge Madonna fan, and while I'm not sure of her successes overseas, I can tell you that here in the US, Madonna has managed to accumlate 37 Top 10 hits, although not consecutively. Her last one ("4 Minutes") was in 2008, and it broke Elvis' record of 36 Top 10 hits.
Here are the songs:
Borderline, Lucky Star, Like a Virgin, Material Girl, Angel, Crazy For You, Dress You Up, Live to Tell, Papa Don't Preach, Open Your Heart, True Blue, Who's That Girl, Causin' A Commotion, La Isla Bonita, Like A Prayer, Express Yourself, Cherrish, Keep It Together, Justify My Love, Rescue Me, Vogue, Hanky Panky, Erotica, This Used To Be My Playground, Deeper and Deeper, I'll Remember, Secret, Take A Bow, You'll See, Don't Cry For Me Argentina, Frozen, Ray Of Light, Music, Don't Tell Me, Die Another Day, Hung Up, 4 Minutes.
The songs bolded above represent an unbroken streak of songs that hit #5 or higher on the charts. In between "Cherrish" and "Keep It Together", Madonna released the single "Oh Father" from her Like A Prayer CD, and it peaked at #20 on the Top 100 chart, breaking a 16 song streak of Top 5 hits.
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I don't recall the week's question, but one of the wrong answers was The Oxbow Incident. This movie is EXCELLENT!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036244/
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Just noticed the article about Ang Lee vs. Lee Ang. If the author of the Reuters article had asked a linguist instead of writers, he might have gotten a clearer picture.
And that picture depends on the word order of the language in which you are speaking. That English puts given names before last names actually corresponds with the fact that English puts modifiers before things modified and, a bit more remotely, that verbs generally precede their objects. In a language where those orders are reversed, you get the opposite order in names. And you need not go quite as far as the far east. The composer Bela Bartok, for example, has that order in English, French, German, but the order Bartok Bela in his native Hungarian. It's not a 100 percent correlation, but it is much, much better than chance.
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Just noticed the article about Ang Lee vs. Lee Ang. If the author of the Reuters article had asked a linguist instead of writers, he might have gotten a clearer picture.
And that picture depends on the word order of the language in which you are speaking. That English puts given names before last names actually corresponds with the fact that English puts modifiers before things modified and, a bit more remotely, that verbs generally precede their objects. In a language where those orders are reversed, you get the opposite order in names. And you need not go quite as far as the far east. The composer Bela Bartok, for example, has that order in English, French, German, but the order Bartok Bela in his native Hungarian. It's not a 100 percent correlation, but it is much, much better than chance.
Thank you, Sandy, for such an insightful point.
The way the names of people from other language backgrounds is treated by speakers of a particular language seems to reflect their society's degree of ethnocentrism and often ignorance about other languages and cultures.
In English, Vietnamese names are often horribly mangled. Vietnamese commonly have three names, consisting of a surname, a gender-specific clan name and a given name in that order. The second name in the sequence is not a middle name like middle names in English that it is optional to cite for everyday, non-formal purposes. I often see in Australian media this gender-specific clan name cited as the given name,which is ridiculous when it is Thi which simply indicates the person is female. The identities of Vietnamese-background students in a Melbourne school where I taught were confused and records made invalid by the refusal of teachers and administrators to use the three names in order, even reverse order, let alone even attempt to pronounce them correctly.
The Thai government passed legislation in 2008 requiring District Offices to register foreign residents. (All Thai citizens must be registered and the heads of households have a household registration book which is one of the documents Thais always have to use in addition to their national ID card to identify themselves in dealings with the bureaucracy.) As far as we know, our District Office did nothing about it. I found out about it a few months ago when I read a letter to the editor in an English-language newspaper about foreigners' access to hospital treatment. I had other reasons for wanting to be registered. When we went to the District Office, the official there refused to even look at me and spoke exclusively to my Thai partner. I think if it wasn't just bureaucratic arrogance, she may have been afraid I would speak to her in English. I had to go to the Australian Consulate and pay a high fee for a certified copy of the ID page from my Australian passport, pay to have it translated into Thai which meant in effect transliterating my name into Thai script, everything else being numbers and dates, then I had pay a high fee to wat for hours to have the transcribed document certified by the Thai Department of Foreign Affairs. The District Office apparently wouldn't or couldn't cope with my name in the Roman alphabet, though the Immigration Bureau does so routinely. English words in Roman script are ubiquitous in Thailand and English is compulsory in schools. My given name is Anthony, but it can't be transcribed accurately into Thai because there is no"th" sound in Thai and no way to represent it. Anthony rather than Antony is the result of the cultural and intellectual history of English. Even though I prefer to be called Tony, I don't want to be Antony for official purposes. I feel Antony is not me.
I guess it may not matter much to Thais, many of whom change their official formal given names and surnames on apparent whims or on the advice of fortune-tellers in an attempt to change their luck. Thais are usually known to each other by their nicknames which usually have no relation to their formal name.
Mind you, there is no universally agreed system for transliterating Thai into the Roman alphabet and Thais are inconsistent to the extent that for example, street names in Roman letters may confusingly be spelt differently at opposite ends of the same street, directional signs along highways are misspelt in transliteration and signs are often inconsitent in the way they separate words (in Thai script, there are no spaces between words, which makes me wonder if this is a factor in making reading very unpopular among Thais.)
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hi tony,
that's funny. there's no TH sound in the thai language, yet there is a TH in the word thai! why not just tai-land instead?
also, nam phrik num -- i notice with that dish, the word "phrik" is pronounced prick, not frick.
NO SPACES, EITHER? omgthat'smoreannoyingthanallcaps! :o
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I'm gonna have to back you up on this one, Charlie. ;D
I'm a huge Madonna fan, and while I'm not sure of her successes overseas, I can tell you...
...
:D :D
i tell you! ;) :D
thanks for the info, guys! yes, it's madonna, for sure! it was also her birthday on the day the question was posed. :)
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Just a note to the editors and researchers of TDS in the current edition:
**Thx so much for posting the original poster for Cimarron. I love seeing it in color; it looks great.**
kathy :-*
you're very welcome, kathy! those old movie posters really do look great in color!
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hi tony,
that's funny. there's no TH sound in the thai language, yet there is a TH in the word thai! why not just tai-land instead?
also, nam phrik num -- i notice with that dish, the word "phrik" is pronounced prick, not frick.
NO SPACES, EITHER? omgthat'smoreannoyingthanallcaps! :o
Thai is written in an Indic alpha-syllabic script, ultimately derived from Ashokan Brahmi. Those scripts distinguish between aspirated consonants (ph) and nonaspirated consonants (p), because there was a real distinction in Indo-Aryan languages. However, when the script spread eastwards through Southeast Asia, Indonesia, Sulawesi, it encountered languages with very different sound systems. Many of the Tai-Kadai languages lack distinctive aspiration, but have something almost no Indic language (apart from Kashmiri) has, tone distinctions. So the alphasyllabic characters were reinterpreted to match the phonology of the host language. Not unlike the German and English pronunciations of the letter z.
Also complicating the matter is that folks transliterating Thai, Cambodian, etc. scripts (mainly British scholars in the 19th century) gave the letters the phonetic values they had in Indic languages, not the ones in Thai, etc.
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I worked with a woman from Thailand once. Her name was
Khampou Sissouphanthong. Or was it Sissouphanthong Khampou.
WHich reminds me of the name of a producer on the Family Guy
tv series: Cherry Chevapravatdumrong.
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hi tony,
that's funny. there's no TH sound in the thai language, yet there is a TH in the word thai! why not just tai-land instead?
also, nam phrik num -- i notice with that dish, the word "phrik" is pronounced prick, not frick.
NO SPACES, EITHER? omgthat'smoreannoyingthanallcaps! :o
Good question!
The Th in Thai doesn't represent the sound represented by the th spelling in English. The Thai language has two t sounds represented by separate letters in the Thai alphabet. One sound is the same sound as the English t at the beginning of a word like tie, that is a t with a puff of air after it. The h in the transliteration represents the puff of air. The second t sound in the Thai language has no puff of air afterwards and is often transliterated into Roman script as t. It is the sound of the t in the English word stop.
Also the Thai people and language belong to a wider group of ethnic groups and languages known as Tai, conventionally spelt that way to distinguish them from the Thai subgroup in Thailand. Tai peoples and languages include the Lao in Laos and the northeast of Thailand, the Shan in Burma, Tai peoples in the southwest of China and Assam in India and various distinct Tai tribes and languages in mountain areas of Thailand (distinct from the Thai of the Central Plains), Laos and Vietnam.
The ph in phrik (chilli) represents the p with the puff of air, the same as the p at the beginning of a word in English. Thai words transliterated with a p have the sound without the puff of air the same as the p in the English word sport. Again the two p sounds are representd by different letters in the Thai alphabet.
(Thai also has two k sounds, spelt with different letters in the Thai alphabet, one with the puff of air as in the English word key and one without as in the English word ski).
In Thai, the differences are important as words that sound very similar to English ears with or without the puff of air sound different to Thai speakers and have different meanings.
There are other languages written or printed with no spaces between words and Latin and Greek were written as scripta continua for millennia. Alberto Manguel says that the the literate European elite used to read aloud or move their lips silently when reading in order to make sense of manuscripts and work out the separate words, so libraries and monasteries used to be very noisy places.
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H as a puff of air.... fascinating! thanks for the info, guys. ;)
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The Thai language has both aspirated and unaspirated consonants and the difference is phonemic, ie they affect the meaning of words. Central Thai has five tones. As a result, the logical and pretty consistent Thai alphabet has 44 consonants.
Thai words tend to be short with one or two syllables, but words in the religious, administrative, technical and formal domains are often polysyllabic terms derived from Sanskrit and Pali. Some formal names and titles are of Indic origin and they are often transliterated into roman script with letters reflecting this etymology (eg, bh and dh) even though they are not pronounced. The Thai alphabet has a special superscript accent mark over letters which are not pronounced, but these are not shown in transliteration. As in English, the length of vowels is phonemic, but long vowels are rarely shown as such in transliterations into roman script.
Western 19th century scholars were also working before the invention of the International Phonetic Alphabet with its standardized symbols for sounds.There is no universally used system of transliterating Thai into roman script and the Thais themselves are inconsistent even in official documents, official signs, newspapers and so on. The name of the current ruling party is transliterated in English language newspapers in Bangkok as Pheu Thai or Puea Thai (meaning For Thais). The vowels (eu and uea) are different ways of transliterating a sound that doesn't exist in English.
The frustrating thing for non-Thais wanting to learn Thai is that very few bilingual dictionaries and books for learning the language use the International Phonetic Alphabet or accurate descriptions or diagrams of how the sounds are articulated. They all use their own different and sometimes inconsistent ways of transliterating Thai letters
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The frustrating thing for non-Thais wanting to learn Thai is that very few bilingual dictionaries and books for learning the language use the International Phonetic Alphabet or accurate descriptions or diagrams of how the sounds are articulated. They all use their own different and sometimes inconsistent ways of transliterating Thai letters
What's an Indo-European product / Renaissance-enthusiast to do?
???
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Aww! I love that first gentle kiss in Shelter (not so sure about that loop though!). Love the whole film in fact.
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yes, the loop is very quirky.
the video clip is a bit murky, too, but you can definitely see what's going on,,, much more than FNIT! their tumble lasts way longer than SNIT as well. :D
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Luckily I've got the dvd!
This is a nice 'summer series' - hope it'll carry on.... I'm a romantic.
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Gay People Are More Dangerous Than Terrorists
Oklahoma state Rep. Sally Kern (R) argues that homosexuality is "more dangerous" than terrorism because "It's something they have to deal with every day. Fortunately we don't have to deal with a terrorist attack every day, and that's what I mean."
All I have to say is that we have to deal with it every day because people like SALLY KERN are
terrorists to "us".
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxine.com%2Ffullerspicer%2Ftds_mattjakebald.jpg&hash=548c5de31f3b475669309bddb3775204b02da8d1)
I think Jake should play the villain "Egghead" in a Batman film!
(And I ain't jokin'!)
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^^^
I never heard of an egghead villain!
Their bald heads look pretty much identical there, I dunno why matt said that. I would love to feel either fuzzy orb on the inside of my legs. >:D ;D
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All I have to say is that we have to deal with it every day because people like SALLY KERN are
terrorists to "us".
I second that! And everywhere, too.
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I don't know how you guys can keep talking to us straight ladies everyday, pretending to be normal and no risk to the state and all that.
You are shameless the lot of you.
:D :D :D >:D :D :D
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^^^
I never heard of an egghead villain!
Their bald heads look pretty much identical there, I dunno why matt said that. I would love to feel either fuzzy orb on the inside of my legs. >:D ;D
Fuzzy or prickly? :P
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The article on Apple CEO Tim Cook is unsubstantiated. Cook has never said that he is gay.
This rumor broke back in January:
Romantic interests: After Cook was profiled as a "lifelong bachelor" and "intensely private" elsewhere, we wondered if he might be gay. We've since heard from two well-placed sources that this is indeed the case, and it sounds like Cook's sexual orientation has been the topic of at least some discussion within the company. One tech executive who has spoken to multiple Apple management veterans about Cook was told executives there would support Cook if he publicly acknowledged his orientation, and even would encourage him to do so as he steps up his leadership role, but that they also had concerns about whether his coming out would impact the perception of the Apple brand.
Cook would be, by far, the most powerful openly gay executive in tech, trailed by Microsoft's openly lesbian HR chief Lisa Brummel and by Megan Smith, the former PlanetOut CEO now working as Google's vice president of new business development.
Relationships: If Cook is in a long term partnership, he's kept it well hidden. Given his brutal work schedule, though, it's hard to imagine how he'd find time. Still, he's got enough experience to have developed some preferences; our tech executive source claims Cook is into Asian guys, a tidbit that prompted another tech observer, with whom we shared the item, to propose some strategic matchmaking that would pair Cook with Google hotshot Ben Ling. It's an inspired match: Perhaps the coupling could build a bridge between two corporate nemeses.
http://gawker.com/5834158/tim-cook-apples-new-ceo-and-the-most-powerful-gay-man-in-america
I think outing someone is a horrible thing to do.
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**RE: New Review of Brokeback Mountain --
This is one of the very best - reviews I've ever read of our beloved film. It captures it perfectly. I, too, have always had the feeling that the tragedy of Ennis' and Jack's story is so much like a tragedy of Shakespeare.
I love the sentence when the author states BBM is the best picture of 2005, and the overwhelming backlash against the so-called "Academy"(?) for giving the best picture award to a piece of TRASH.
Thank you so much for printing it; it is wonderful to read.**
kathy :)
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I don't know how you guys can keep talking to us straight ladies everyday pretending to be normal and no risk to the state and all that.
You are shameless the lot of you.
:D :D :D >:D :D :D
-I read that, twice, Jess, now I'm really confused......
So, why are you 'straight ladies' pretending to be normal, anyway? And how come you're a risk to the State..?
Oh, never mind.. :D
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I'm guessing, Whitney Houston's Saving All My Love for You. was the best-selling debut album of all time.
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I don't know how you guys can keep talking to us straight ladies everyday, pretending to be normal and no risk to the state and all that.
You are shameless the lot of you.
:D :D :D >:D :D :D
...all I can say is a thank you to the fates that you straight ladies are pretending to be no risk to the state, if that's what it takes - please understand that this comment comes from a member of another tribe the 'state' doesn't regard as 'normal.' Some parts of our lives may be decriminalized, but we're not equally legal everywhere, not even with each other, and of course 'legal' means neither 'recognized' nor 'accepted.' p.s.: 'Shameless' is, like love and tapdancing, a talent which must be exercised daily to grow and thrive.
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Mike,
Good point, but Jess' remark was meant to a (delightfully) sarcastic response to Sally Kern's "homosexuality is 'more dangerous' than terrorism" shibboleth.
The predicate, "...pretending to be normal..." I think was really aimed at the subject "guys" ( i.e., "gay guys"), rather than at "straight ladies." -I deliberately mis-parsed the sentence for comedic effect, sorry.
-Stan
[This message will self-destruct, in 5:00 minutes.] ;)
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The article on Apple CEO Tim Cook is unsubstantiated. Cook has never said that he is gay.
If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around...in other words...is someone gay ONLY if they "say" so?
I'm not gay...but my boyfriend is.
I think outing someone is a horrible thing to do.
The trouble with that is that there are degrees of being out. You can be out only to yourself.
You can confide in a friend or two. You can be at college and the whole college/college town knows.
You can move to New York and New York knows, but no one you knew in California. You can be a celebrity
and celebrities know, but not the public.
If any one of these people happens to tell someone or a group that someone is gay, then they are
outing them when they might not even know they are. To me, outing is something that an individual
cannot ultimately control because either you are or you aren't. If someone is outed it's not like there
is a lie being told, but rather lies uncovered.
Yes, there can be reasons to not be out, but to me, in general, the curve bends toward being
yourself, even if one is dragged into it. I mean, we all know people who are gay that might not have
been out at one time or another, so why should others be forced to also lie for them?
It is a faceted argument.
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...all I can say is a thank you to the fates that you straight ladies are pretending to be no risk to the state, if that's what it takes - please understand that this comment comes from a member of another tribe the 'state' doesn't regard as 'normal.' Some parts of our lives may be decriminalized, but we're not equally legal everywhere, not even with each other, and of course 'legal' means neither 'recognized' nor 'accepted.' p.s.: 'Shameless' is, like love and tapdancing, a talent which must be exercised daily to grow and thrive.
Well, I certainly know that you are all completely normal and of no more risk to the state than I am! :D (mutters and plots the downfall of the state) If I had anything to do with it the state would not just recognise your status it would love and appreciate you all as much as I do.
Lets all be shameless, or at least without shame.
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She became close to the Australian on the set of the film, and they dated until 2007, having a daughter Matilda Rose in 2005. The cast had become so close they asked Jake Gyllenhaal to be her stepfather.
The mind boggles! :o
In the kiss scene from the French TV show, the nervous rambling by one of the characters in the very beginning is about how to make a beef stew. :D
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^^^
I never heard of an egghead villain!
G. Gordon Liddy did a stint on Miami Vice as "Captain Real Estate" but I'm not sure I'd rrank him as one of the show's villains.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi135.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq135%2Ftalkstocoyotes%2Fliddy-miami-vice.jpg&hash=ecbc2ca3d487a891a72872213f686a8d4756bd5b)
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It's so telling that Mr Frothy Santorum is afraid of gay men showering with PEOPLE! Shows what he thinks about fellow humans. In the 1850's his definition of walking, talking nonhumans would include slaves and all black people, probably.
An article in Philadelphia magazine suggests his fear of gay soldiers.
http://blogs.phillymag.com/gphilly/2011/10/12/santorums-afraid-gay-soldiers/
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She became close to the Australian on the set of the film, and they dated until 2007, having a daughter Matilda Rose in 2005. The cast had become so close they asked Jake Gyllenhaal to be her stepfather.
The mind boggles! :o
In the kiss scene from the French TV show, the nervous rambling by one of the characters in the very beginning is about how to make a beef stew. :D
thank you for the brief synopsis for the chatter in the stairwell! i wasn't sure if they were talking about a swim meet on thursday or WHAT. i do wish there were more kiss scenes like that on american TV, though.
you caught the mistake! they must have meant fairy godfather :D
i often leave the typos in when compiling TDS. lyle is always telling me to remove the extra vowels in words like "favour" but i think it adds a certain... charme. ;)
thanks again!
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first of all, captain real estate has one hell of a murse, there! :D
It's so telling that Mr Frothy Santorum is afraid of gay men showering with PEOPLE! Shows what he thinks about fellow humans. In the 1850's his definition of walking, talking nonhumans would include slaves and all black people, probably.
An article in Philadelphia magazine suggests his fear of gay soldiers.
http://blogs.phillymag.com/gphilly/2011/10/12/santorums-afraid-gay-soldiers/
that's for that, fritz... i think that basically these hater types are afraid of straight soldiers turning gay, if only for a couple of minutes a day. one day they will realize that camaraderie between soldiers is key to a tight knit group of men that function well as a unit... physically, emotionally, and otherwise.
fear kills. love overcomes. why is that so difficult to swallow?
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thank you for the brief synopsis for the chatter in the stairwell! i wasn't sure if they were talking about a swim meet on thursday or WHAT. i do wish there were more kiss scenes like that on american TV, though.
you caught the mistake! they must have meant fairy godfather :D
i often leave the typos in when compiling TDS. lyle is always telling me to remove the extra vowels in words like "favour" but i think it adds a certain... charme. ;)
thanks again!
The "u" in favour is not an extra vowel if you normally speak and write UK English. :D
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^^^^^^^
Same with Canadian English! :D
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If it's a british (or canadian) website i'll leave the U intact. And I certainly won't be adding it to words in articles from US soil ;)
The article that called jake a stepfather corrected their mistake so I straightened it out in TDS as well. Jake is now a godfather again.
it does boggle the mind, tho. One review a while back even said something about the boys going fishing in the "mountains of texas." ::) :D
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thank you for the brief synopsis for the chatter in the stairwell! i wasn't sure if they were talking about a swim meet on thursday or WHAT. i do wish there were more kiss scenes like that on american TV, though.
I gathered that previously the barefoot guy A had been at a dinner thrown by the visitor B. B apologized for the quality of the tagine, that he's not a great cook. A said he liked it, so B says if he wants to make it himself, here's what you do... and then he goes into detail about how much beef to buy from the butcher, the marinade, browning the onions... It cracked me up because it's not an implausible scenario over there. ::) (I say 'there', because I'm in CO now, Jimmy.)
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Re the picture--we know who the boy is, who's the girl?
Who's the BOY??? Evidently I should know, but I don't.
Still trying to figure out that 1970 gay Western film. Not THE BOYS IN THE BARN, I guess. ;D
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I don't know who the boy is. Or the girl. ???
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The "u" in favour is not an extra vowel if you normally speak and write UK English. :D
I'm all in favour of candour if the colour's right, right? ;)
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As long as the colour is grey! :D :D
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Exactly! :-*
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^^^^^^^
Same with Canadian English! :D
They speak English in Canadia?!?
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LOL!
I must say I was surprised about honour, colour etc in Canada though.
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This week's question: What no-budget 1970 film, with a cast of unknowns, revolves around a male homosexual romance set in the American West?
At first I thought you meant it was a western. I was looking for cowboys--there's a character
called Cowboy in Boys in the Band--lol, but it's New York centric. Then I thought it must be one
of Andy Warhol's forays into cinema, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Is it a porno?
I can't even come up with a guess on this one right now, even with The Celluloid Closet as
a companion!
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I'm still trying to figure it out! Lyle, if you think of it, let me know.
I haven't a clue.
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"Song of the Loon"
Google-aided, but I have actually heard of it before and seen an excerpt. (Possibly mentioned on the forum?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95cDKfiqyw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95cDKfiqyw)
All I can find - with Spanish subtitiles :).
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Oh, my GOSH!!! I've got to see this one! Wonder if it's on DVD?
Thanks, dear Cally.
The loons, the loons, they're calling us!!
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Oh, my GOSH!!! I've got to see this one! Wonder if it's on DVD?
Thanks, dear Cally.
The loons, the loons, they're calling us!!
I've remembered now - the film was mentioned in Patricia Neil Warren's "The Front Runner", which I read a few months long ago - I must have looked it up on YouTube at that time.
It's from a novel written in 1966 by Richard Amory - lots of 5-star reviews on Amazon. Looks rather interesting.
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Cally is correct, Song of the Loon was set in the American West!
Come on, guys... look closely and you'll see the woman in that girl... ;)
Kim, tagines rule! I hope you are enjoying your time in my home state, the aspens must be golden and quaking about now. :)
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In the 80's that film was always in video stores pornography sections.
Is it x-rated?
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lyle, you've never seen song of the loon? for some reason i thought you were familiar with the film.
i don't know anything about the movie. :(
but...
what kind of underwear did richard amory wear?
fruit of the loon, of course!
;)
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"Song of the Loon"
Google-aided, but I have actually heard of it before and seen an excerpt. (Possibly mentioned on the forum?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95cDKfiqyw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95cDKfiqyw)
All I can find - with Spanish subtitiles :).
Thank you very much!
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Looks pretty strong stuff for 1970!
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1970 was not for wimps, as I recall. ;)
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lyle, you've never seen song of the loon? for some reason i thought you were familiar with the film.
i don't know anything about the movie. :(
but...
what kind of underwear did richard amory wear?
fruit of the loon, of course!
;)
The most popular erotic gay book of the 1960s and 1970s, Song of the Loon was the inspiration for two sequels, a 1970 film of the same name, at least one porn movie and a parody novel called Fruit of the Loon
http://astore.amazon.com/davecullencom-20/detail/1551521806 (http://astore.amazon.com/davecullencom-20/detail/1551521806)
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I'm intrigued - and have ordered a cheap copy from Amazon.
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"Song of the Loon"
Google-aided, but I have actually heard of it before and seen an excerpt. (Possibly mentioned on the forum?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95cDKfiqyw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95cDKfiqyw)
All I can find - with Spanish subtitiles :).
thanks for this, sarah! yes, it was probably mentioned in TDS before... i definitely remember this clip! or i may have put it in the gay cinema thread... idk....
looking forward to hearing what you think of the entire movie!
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No, it's the book I've ordered - not yet arrived. :)
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^^^ oh! well, let's hope it's as good as the movie. ;) :D
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hint: she'll have to curb her white wine intake for a while
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Just a guess on the most popular (ratings-wise) BATMAN villain:
Tallulah Bankhead as The Black Widow?
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Don't know but based upon the fact we are here at the DCF my guess would be the episodes that featured the Joker played by Cesar Romero.
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^^^ oh! well, let's hope it's as good as the movie. ;) :D
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hint: she'll have to curb her white wine intake for a while
Im confused. Why would we all know Alex? Is Weeds that popular or is there something else I don't get?
She is really familiar but I can't place her.
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Re: BATMAN
Question of the week--RIDDLE ME THIS! LOL!
For some reason, I always thought Roddy McDowall as "The Bookworm" was a fascinating
villain. But I am sure that's not the answer!
My particular favorite was Cat Woman as played by Julie Newmar.
(And the Penguin!)
Speaking of Tallulah, I remember when the first Batman film (with Keaton) was out
twenty years ago that the Batman TV series was being shown here and I waited
for weeks to catch that Tallulah episode and the day finally came it was to air and
I taped it. I eagerly awaited watching it that evening and the tape started, there
was the opening scene and then the credits and then -- the station switched to
coverage of raging fires happening in L.A. county the rest of the day. I never did
see it and as far as I know, Batman hasn't aired much, if at all, in the last 20 years.
I read an article once that it's the most requested tv series to be released on dvd, but
that there are so many issues with "who owns the rights" that it may never be released.
Who owns it? You can't believe how convoluted that issue can get and because it's
popular everyone wants a piece of the bat-pie!
I'd begun to think we'd never see it again even aired on tv because if they did, people
who are interested will surely tape them. But then, I discovered that new, or relatively
new, broadcast channel ME-TV has started airing the series this October for one hour
each week on Saturday evenings! I watched a couple weekends. They've been starting
with the third season episodes--and not in order (which are stand alone or non-continued
episodes) when Batgirl appeared and, boy, is it a hoot!
I guess you had to be around in the winter of 1966 to appreciate what a sudden
phenomenon that show was for awhile. Everyone wanted to star as a villain or make
a cameo appearance sticking their head out of a window when they were climbing a
building! The people they got to be in that show is astounding when you think about
it--the episodes I just watched had Joan Collins, Milton Berle, Ethel Merman, Eartha Kitt,
not to mention Mike Mazurki!
As for the highest rated villain episodes? Hmmmmmmmmmmm. :)
They had 4 villains that were pretty regularly rotated over all the seasons:
Joker, Riddler, Cat Woman and the Penguin. There were a couple that did
a few, like King Tut, Mr. Freeze and Egghead. And a lot of one shots like
Art Carney as The Archer (probably my least favorite)! They even went to
London for a three parter!
My first thought was Tallulah Bankhead because she might have brought another
group of audience members to the show, but as I remember who else appeared
in the series, that doesn't seem to be as big a consideration.
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hint: she'll have to curb her white wine intake for a while
CASSIE!! Linda Cardinelli!!! (I have no clue who the boy is ::))
Do I win???!!!
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CASSIE!! Linda Cardinelli!!! (I have no clue who the boy is ::))
Do I win???!!!
yes, you win!!
that is Linda C. on the tv show, Freaks and Geeks. she's soon to be a mother in real life!
prize for donna. ;D
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Re: BATMAN
Question of the week--RIDDLE ME THIS! LOL!
...
The people they got to be in that show is astounding when you think about
it--the episodes I just watched had Joan Collins, Milton Berle, Ethel Merman, Eartha Kitt,
not to mention Mike Mazurki!
As for the highest rated villain episodes? Hmmmmmmmmmmm. :)
My first thought was Tallulah Bankhead because she might have brought another
group of audience members to the show, but as I remember who else appeared
in the series, that doesn't seem to be as big a consideration.
wow, lyle, you're a virtual batman encyclopedia!
who is mike mazurki? that totally doesn't ring a bell... but no, no, no, no, and no... the answer hasnt' been mentioned yet.
here's a hint: rhinestones.
(no, not glenn campbell.) ::)
i hope that when your station DOES finally play the tallulah episose, that your vcr is set to record and there aren't any fires or hillslides in los angeles!!!
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who is mike mazurki?
I am not much aware of his background, but Mike Mazurki was a character actor
who was 6'5" and had a gruff face which usually got him parts playing heavies and
gangsters and such. He worked a lot!
He did dozens of movies and a lot of them pretty high profile, like:
The Shanghai Gesture, Donovan's Reef, Murder, My Sweet, Kismet,
Davy Crockett. He was in Around the World in 80 Days and even
Some Like It Hot! He was in at least one of the 1940's Dick Tracy
films and I believe also in Warren Beatty's Dick Tracy film.
He also worked a lot on television shows like My Friend Flicka, Perry Mason,The Munsters, I Dream of Jeannie,
Bonanza and Gunsmoke. He was also a regular on a short-lived sitcom, The Chicago Teddy Bears. He's in a
B-Picture I like a lot from John Wayne's production company, called The Man in the Vault. And for fans of
Gilligan's Island, he's in the amusing episode where a mad scientist switches everyone's personalities with
each other and Mike Mazurki becomes Ginger Grant! LOL!
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CASSIE!! Linda Cardinelli!!! (I have no clue who the boy is ::))
Do I win???!!!
Someone tell us--who is the boy?!?
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**The picture of Elvis on the album cover made me tear up. I loved him since I was 10 yrs. old.**
kathy
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here's a hint: rhinestones.
It can't be Carolyn Jones as Marsha, Queen of Diamonds--can it? :-\
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I forgot about that villain.
Villainess.
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ennis, I mean del Mark, the boy was Linda cardellini's costar in "freaks and geeks",,, never saw the show, myself. ;D
and
no, not Carolyn Jones, but that's a great guess! :o
that's cool you love Elvis, Kathy! I am a big fan of his early rock a billy stuff! :)
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**Oh, yes, jimmy. I have always loved Elvis. :-* I was just a little girl when I started. Remember - he was only 20 years old when he recorded Heartbreak Hotel; isn't that amazing? And the next year of course was his first movie, Love Me Tender. I think my favorites of the first four classic films are King Creole and Jailhouse Rock. He choreographed the famous jailhouse scene with all the cons dancing in front of and behind bars. Still, his 2nd film, Loving You, was very good too.
When his "stamp" came out years back, I was so glad the "young" Elvis stamp won out as the favorite. To me, that is always
really him. His great talent never left him. Yet it's just so sad he was taken young, due to damned physician-prescribed meds. [Doesn't this sound familar??] So sad.**
kathy
p.s. At least the personal physician was charged.
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^^^ oh! well, let's hope it's as good as the movie. ;) :D
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hint: she'll have to curb her white wine intake for a while
I'm a bit late at this, but it looks like Cassie.
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"Song of the Loon"
Google-aided, but I have actually heard of it before and seen an excerpt. (Possibly mentioned on the forum?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95cDKfiqyw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z95cDKfiqyw)
All I can find - with Spanish subtitiles :).
Omg..... the great outdoors, a campfire, a whisky bottle, two best buddies talking, pouring their hearts out to each other.... sounds familiar?
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Dear Friends of Beyond Brokeback:
I am so looking forward to meeting everyone this coming weekend in Chicago for the debut of Beyond Brokeback and also for all of you to meet each other. A year ago at this time, we were rehearsing for our first performance at the Autry National Center Romance Gallery in Los Angeles. I never dreamed that a year later Beyond Brokeback would make it to Chicago at a venue as spectacular as the Auditorium Theater.
At the Autry there is a beautiful painting by Thomas Moran called "Mountain of the Holy Cross," 1875, intended to inspire migration to the far reaches of the American West.
http://theautry.org/press/thomas-morans-mountain-of-the-holy-cross-returns-to-the-autry (http://theautry.org/press/thomas-morans-mountain-of-the-holy-cross-returns-to-the-autry)
When I first saw images of the vast and beautiful Auditorium Theater, I was reminded of this painting, and others like it. As we perform Beyond Brokeback and look out from the stage and up to " The Gods," a theater term for the highest, least expensive seats in a theater, as humbling as this may feel, remember that the West belongs to everyone and there's a place for everyone on the West!
I am so grateful to all of you for lending your time and talent to Beyond Brokeback in Chicago, to the Members of the Ultimate Brokeback Forum, some who will be traveling as far as Sweden and France for our performance, and to Brett Batterson and David Zak for producing and directing Beyond Brokeback, to Shawn Kirchner and his beautiful music, and the staff of the Roosevelt University and the Auditorium Theater for the all hard work they have done in making this production a reality.
I will attend each rehearsal and look forward to saying hello. Please contact me if you have any questions.
Sincerely,
Gregory Hinton
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Chandell! Ha!
Holy pianist envy Batman!
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TDS--I always love me some gay penguins!
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TDS--J. Edgar film:
Bill Weir, on Nightline, was talking last night to Clint Eastwood and Leonardo.
Weir called the film a love story, set in the context of their world. (Tolson/Hoover.)
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I certainly hope that the Mormon church's turnaround on homosexuality means that when Prop 8 comes up for a vote again, they won't be pouring millions into the YES vote…
Don't ya think Michelle looks like Kes from Voyager? And yeah, long hair is better--but if Heath loved it, hey. So you'll know when she's ready to move on: she'll grow it out again.
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Fat chance about the LDS church, unfortunately. One bishop (a very minor position in that denomination, the equivalent of a pastor of a parish) doesn't have much influence.
I expect that the leadership would be afraid about losing big bucks if they changed their position.
And money is extremely important to them. Far more so than with many other churches.
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Singer song-writer Mary McBride and the band dropped into the CityFM89 studios!
With Paul Carbonara on guitar, Greg Beshers on guitar, Dan Carr on bass and Bobby Llyod Hicks on drums. Here they are performing a song written for Mary for the soundtrack of Brokeback Mountain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaoVjRYhdrQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaoVjRYhdrQ)
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I certainly hope that the Mormon church's turnaround on homosexuality means that when Prop 8 comes up for a vote again, they won't be pouring millions into the YES vote…
Don't ya think Michelle looks like Kes from Voyager? And yeah, long hair is better--but if Heath loved it, hey. So you'll know when she's ready to move on: she'll grow it out again.
**When MW and Heath were together (they had not been together at the time of his passing for months) she wore her hair many, many ways: long, medium, short, whatever. How do we really know Heath loved it short anyway?
And honestly, I don't care when she moves on. You can say anything you want to the "press" to put yourself in a better light.
And what's this bit where she says: "I wear it short/straight because of the 'straight guy' who loved it that way. What does that have to do with anything? Why bring that into the article anyway?**
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When I saw heath and michelle together in los angeles, her hair was mia farrow short.
I think she said "straight" because she noticed that only gay men liked her hair short. And lesbians, too! (Probably) ;) :D
It's true, tho: straight men seem to like their women (and their lesbians) with long hair!
Sigh... there's always wigs to the rescue. ::)
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No bites on the fun question? Here's a hint: SUCKERS! >:D
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Where's the fun question, Jimmy???
Can't find it!! :-\
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No bites on the fun question? Here's a hint: SUCKERS! >:D
Tree frogs is all I can come up with.
Northern California salamanders, maybe, but my best guess is tree frogs.
sigh
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It's in forum footnotes, mark! Look for chandell and aunt harriett.
Nope, not tree frogs or north american salamanders. Wrong species of animal.
They are limited to the western hemisphere, though. ;)
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Vampire bats?
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Sloth?
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Fat chance about the LDS church, unfortunately. One bishop (a very minor position in that denomination, the equivalent of a pastor of a parish) doesn't have much influence.
I expect that the leadership would be afraid about losing big bucks if they changed their position.
And money is extremely important to them. Far more so than with many other churches.
Hmmmm...maybe not: the Pope continues to let tens of thousands of people die of starvation while he prances around in only the finest of handmade dresses, among an art collection that has been called 'truly, uniquely priceless,' not to mention not for sale...go figure. ...and he still hates fags! (What's the German equivalent of 'Phelps?')
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Hummingbird?
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^^^^ hot dog! we have a winner! :D yes, the nectar sucking hummingbird!
technically, they lick the nectar with their long, fringed and forked tongues.
I thought vampire bats were from transylvania.. >:D
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Thank you. 8)
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You're welcome!
Well, that was painless... for some reason I expected some heat for lumping birds together with animals. :D
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Hmmmm...maybe not: the Pope continues to let tens of thousands of people die of starvation while he prances around in only the finest of handmade dresses, among an art collection that has been called 'truly, uniquely priceless,' not to mention not for sale...go figure. ...and he still hates fags! (What's the German equivalent of 'Phelps?')
I hate to say it, because I love the wonderful art in the vatican, but that is soo true.
Plus the millions (billions?) of dollars wasted on that gaudy spanish cathedral. :P
Omg... I would love to see the pope in a GOD HATES FAGS t shirt.
Made of the finest silks and satins, of course. ;)
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You're welcome!
Well, that was painless... for some reason I expected some heat for lumping birds together with animals. :D
We know our biological kingdoms :D.
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TDS is on vacation this week, but we'd like
to wish those that celebrate a very
Happy Thanksgiving!
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A Roar from the Bunkhouse
Nary a thing to eat Thanksgivin'
Only tin can truck!
Gettin' tired of such a livin',
Blame the orn'ry luck!
Nothin' only beans an' bacon—
Pard, excuse these tears!
Seems jest like we've been fursaken—
Darn this punchin' steers!
Folks back home are jest a-stuffin'
Turkey-meat an' pie;
At them feed-fests there's no bluffin';
Gosh, it makes me sigh!
No sich dinner for us fellers
In this camp appears;
Turkey ain't fer cowboys' smellers—
Darn this punchin' steers!
~~~
by E. A. Brininstool, from Trail Dust of a Maverick, 1914
Read more about E. A. Brininstool and his poetry here (http://www.cowboypoetry.com/brinin.htm). Source: cowboypoetry.com (http://www.cowboypoetry.com/thanksgiving.htm)
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Oh what a treat! A new TDS and just in time for Christmas! Thank you Linda, Jimmy, and everyone else who takes the time to put this together. We all have our favorites here at DCF, but for me the TDS is mine! Love every new edition!
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I came here to also send up a prayer of thanks for the new TDS.
Thanks for the gift! The Victor Borge quote made me laugh--they've
been featuring him on PBS quite frequently this fall. I got to see him
perform many years ago at the Huntington Hartford theatre!
Happy Holidays y'all.
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Many thanks, Jimmy, Linda and everyone concerned, for the nice Christmas edition and all your work on TDS during the year. :)
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you guys are all very welcome! and thank you for providing posts and pics and other good stuff for inclusion in forum footnotes!
it's always fun putting TDS together, when i find time. i will try to keep up with the bimonthly schedule... the holidays sort of took it out of me, so to speak, but hopefully, it'll be the monthly sheet, at the very least!
hope everybody has a warm and safe holiday season!
stay hydrated, as well! :D
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"The Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire" was the first "episode", but it was really a special, so don't know if that counts.
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I'm guessing "The Homecoming," which was the pilot for "The Waltons."
Thanks for this and for ALL the Daily Sheets, Jimmy, Linda, Lyle, and all who tirelessly work on them!!! Your efforts are always much appreciated, and I hope you know that! :-*
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More thanks and best of the season from me. I don't often comment but I do like to read TDS and am grateful to those who put the work in.
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I love the cute little monkey at the end of TDS!
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:::waves at sonja:::
that monkey is me :D
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"The Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire" was the first "episode", but it was really a special, so don't know if that counts.
I do believe it does, nick!
:D
lyle has been kind enough to help out with QOTW as of late, and I think he'll agree.
I never saw this particular episode, but I do remember seeing snippets of the Simpsons on the Tracy Ullman show, decades ago!
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*waves back at Jimmy*
You look really cute there, Jimmy! :D
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I love the cute little monkey at the end of TDS!
Awwwww, me too! I had to save it immediately!
So, that means now I have you saved on my compouter, Jimmy! :D
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Many thanks, Jimmy, Linda and everyone concerned, for the nice Christmas edition and all your work on TDS during the year. :)
What Sara said! Thank you all for the amazing job you do ! I haven't said it nearly enough, but your work is very much enjoyed and appreciated. :-)
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Amen to that!
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...and I think he'll agree.
I do agree! The Christmas episode was considered the pilot for the series which they did show
in December and then the series began regularly a month later in January. Sort of like
when they showed the pilot of Glee in May to tease everyone. Before that, the Simpsons
segment was a feature on the Tracey Ullman Show.
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I do agree! The Christmas episode was considered the pilot for the series .
Yeah, I guess, though I would have said "Frosty vs. Santa" (South Park)
The Simpson Christmas episode was not really the 'pilot" but it was the first full length show the public viewed so I suppose it counts. (The actual "pilot' was not shown until about 8 or 9 weeks into the first season if I remember correctly.
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I got 9 out of 15 on the sheep quiz. My granddad was a shepherd but I obviously don't know too much about American sheep!
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I don't specificaly know what the answer to the trivia question is,
but of those answers, I like to think it is Boinging!
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Geaux limericks!
The one I quoted is as old as the hills, though!
I remember hearing it the first time on an old PBS poetry TV program (!) Anyone for Tennyson back in the 70's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anyone_for_Tennyson%3F
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Well, it's stotting if it's antelopes. I don't know what it is in sheep.
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I was going to vote for jouncing. :D
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I love the sheep theme of this month's TDS!
The Daily Sheep...? ;D
I can see future TDS's being e g Basque themed, Chilean themed, bean themed, spuds-and-powdered-milk themed, piss-ant themed, blue parka themed..... the possibilities are endless!! :D ;D ;)
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LOL--you are so baa-d! (I say sheepishly.)
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^^^^^^^^
:D :D :D
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I don't specificaly know what the answer to the trivia question is,
but of those answers, I like to think it is Boinging!
...on 'Moonlighting,' with Cybil Sheppard and Bruce Willis, it was boinking...<insert smileyface here>
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Well, it's stotting if it's antelopes. I don't know what it is in sheep.
LOL, I'm pretty sure it is "stotting". Lambs do it, antelopes do it, even horses do it. (if they have a "high startle point". :D)
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Even educated fleas do it?
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LOL!
You reminded me, because in MIDNIGHT IN PARIS, Cole Porter plays and sings
a lot of this song that I wanted to see all the lyrics to it, so I looked them up:
Cole Porter - "Let's Do It" Lyrics
When the little bluebird
Who has never said a word
Starts to sing Spring
When the little bluebell
At the bottom of the dell
Starts to ring Ding dong Ding dong
When the little blue clerk
In the middle of his work
Starts a tune to the moon up above
It is nature that is all
Simply telling us to fall in love
And that's why birds do it, bees do it
Even educated fleas do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love
Cold Cape Cod clams, 'gainst their wish, do it
Even lazy jellyfish do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love
I've heard that lizards and frogs do it
Layin' on a rock
They say that roosters do it
With a doodle and cock
Some Argentines, without means do it
I hear even Boston beans do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love
When the little bluebird
Who has never said a word
starts to sing Spring spring spring
When the little bluebell
At the bottom of the dell
Starts to ring Ding ding ding
When the little blue clerk
In the middle of his work
Starts a tune
The most refined lady bugs do it
When a gentleman calls
Moths in your rugs they do it
What's the use of moth balls
The chimpanzees in the zoos do it,
Some courageous kangaroos do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love
I'm sure sometimes on the sly you do it
Maybe even you and I might do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love.
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HOWEVER:
There seems to be no end of varying lyrics to this song and how
many of them are attributed to Cole Porter himself, I do not know
for sure, but here's a delightful sampling, with a bit of repetition from above:
In Spain, the best upper sets do it
Lithuanians and Letts do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love
The Dutch in old Amsterdam do it
Not to mention the Fins
Folks in Siam do it - think of Siamese twins
Some Argentines, without means, do it
People say in Boston even beans do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love
Romantic sponges, they say, do it
Oysters down in Oyster Bay do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love
Cold Cape Cod clams, 'gainst their wish, do it
Even lazy jellyfish, do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love
Electric eels I might add do it
Though it shocks 'em I know
Why ask if shad do it - Waiter bring me shad roe
In shallow shores English soles do it
Goldfish in the privacy of bowls do it
Let's do it, let's fall in love
The draggonflies in the reeds do it
Sentimental centipedes do it
let's do it it, let's fall in love
mos-qui-to's heaven forbids, do it
soon as every katydid do it
let's do it, lets' fall in love
The most refined lady bu-u-ugs do it
When a gentleman calls
Moths in your rugs do it
What's the use of moth balls
locusts in trees do it
bees do it
even over-educated fleas do it
let's do it, let's fall in love!
let's do it le-e-et's fall in love
let's do it, let's fall in love!
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Even more!
The song lyric we now associate with the song--birds do it, bees do it, etc.
was originally:
Chinks do it, Japs do it,
up in Lapland little Laps do it...
But was changed a couple years after written, obviously, when it was
known or found to be offensive.
Several early recordings of the song contain those lyrics though, such as ones
by the Dorsey Brothers & their Orchestra featuring a vocal by a young Bing Crosby,
Rudy Vallée, Mary Martin, and Billie Holiday.
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Even educated fleas do it?
LOL, well I don't know how Cole knew but I guess we might as well take his word for it.
On the other hand, educating or even attempting to communicate with a flee appears to be a rather futile endeavor
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Moths in your rugs they do it
What's the use of moth balls
oy the moths!
LOL, well I don't know how Cole knew but I guess we might as well take his word for it.
On the other hand, educating or even attempting to communicate with a flee appears to be a rather futile endeavor
it's true gary, the fleas flee when you try to teach them anything (when a flea jumps with all four, or is that six legs, is it called, sproinging, jouncing, or playing hookey?)
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it's true gary, the fleas flee when you try to teach them anything (when a flea jumps with all four, or is that six legs, is it called, sproinging, jouncing, or playing hookey?)
LOL, maybe it's called self absorbed or, perhaps, intimidation.
"Even intimidated flees do it". :D
I dunno.
I find the art and science of "education" to be illusive.
Hell, communication, (as we have experienced) is difficult enough.
"Education is not the filling of a vessel, but the kindling of a flame." - Socrates
But then, the flame attracts the moth and the "kindler" is left to hemlock.
ETA: I don't know what in the world I did to screw up the "quote" function on this post but, for the life of me, I can't figure out how to fix it.
oh, I just did... hmm.
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LOL, well I don't know how Cole knew but I guess we might as well take his word for it.
On the other hand, educating or even attempting to communicate with a flee appears to be a rather futile endeavor
A flea and a fly in a flue
Were trapped! So what could they do?
Said the fly, "Let us flee"
Said the flea, "Let us fly"
So they fled through a flaw in the flue
-
A flea and a fly in a flue
Were trapped! So what could they do?
Said the fly, "Let us flee"
Said the flea, "Let us fly"
So they fled through a flaw in the flue
LOL, thanks Fritz.
And since we are on the subject of fleas perhaps we should all take a break and
revisit Feydeau. ;)
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Ernest-Aimé or Georges? ;)
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Ernest-Aimé or Georges? ;)
:) :) :)
Well, I was thinking of the "younger".
-
I thought two films received best pic on February 29th.
Perhaps one had been announced in advance?
ETA:
ORRRR, it is quite possible one of them was actually announced after midnight.
-
^^^^ hi gary, thanks for bringing that up. we have changed the question to include two films. :D
-
GONE WITH THE WIND in 1940 and THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING in 2004.
-
Mark, there you are!
-
ETA:
ORRRR, it is quite possible one of them was actually announced after midnight.
Not on the West Coast!
-
GONE WITH THE WIND in 1940
and
THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING in 2004.
In honor of the oscars this month,
that it's a leap year
and
Valentine's Day, I will just stick with GWTW! LOL!
(I don't think LOTR is very romantic.)
-
^^^^no crush on Frodo?
-
By the way, under events, it's so far only on FB, but would it count if some Brokies are planning, or at least thinking, of being in Albuquerque NM on 20 May to see the annular eclipse of the sun that's taking place that afternoon?
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^^^^no crush on Frodo?
Lord of the Wedding Rings, maybe.
The "Two Towers" are rather phallic as well.
-
To Lyle:
Oh, yes - GWTW! Wow, do I love :-* it...
kathy
-
hi mark!!
By the way, under events, it's so far only on FB, but would it count if some Brokies are planning, or at least thinking, of being in Albuquerque NM on 20 May to see the annular eclipse of the sun that's taking place that afternoon?
I think so, I have to get clearance first. maybe we'll get a thread started, too!
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Not on the West Coast!
...they don't have midnight on the West Coast?
-
They can't tell. They're all wearing sunglasses. ;)
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Really great to see TDS back -- I've missed it! Thanks for taking it on, Chuck. I hope you won't regret it. :D
I was completely unaware of that travelogue thread. Thanks for starting that, Ingmar -- those pix of Myanmar are amazing.
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Glad to see the TDS back. Thanks, Chuck :)
Thanks Jimmy for keeping the TDS interesting for so many years. Wishing you all the best in your life :-* I do hope we'll meet some day.
-
Thank you (((Chuck))) for taking on the TDS. Yes, we were missing it! I think a more manageable format is a great idea.
And huge thanks to you (((Jimmy))) for the years you have lent your incredible talent to the TDS. Looking forward to seeing you again at another Brokie gathering!
-
Well done, Chuck, for taking on the TDS, and I look forward to reading it when ever you feel like getting it together.
And many many thanks to Jimmy for all your work on TDS and your delightful posts in so many other areas. Hope you may come back soon, with fewer responsibilities :-*.
-
Yes, thank you, Chuck, for taking on the task of TDS, this first edition proves you're the right man for the job!
I've missed TDS, glad to have it back!!
And thank you so much, Jimmy, for all your hard work on TDS throughout the years!!!
Your editions have always been so informative and interesting, and I've always been looking forward to them!
-
I would like to second Sonja and Sara's remarks, well done Chuck, and thank you and look forward to seeing you back with us again, Jimmy.
-
Same here! Thank you Jimmy for all your work, hope to see you around again when time and tide permit!
And thanks for continuing the work, Chuck!
-
I was completely unaware of that travelogue thread. Thanks for starting that, Ingmar -- those pix of Myanmar are amazing.
You're most welcome, Kim.
Hope to see your comments and also your PICS from your numerous travels there.
This would be a pleasure!
:)
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Thank you (((Chuck))) for taking on the TDS. Yes, we were missing it! I think a more manageable format is a great idea.
And huge thanks to you (((Jimmy))) for the years you have lent your incredible talent to the TDS. Looking forward to seeing you again at another Brokie gathering!
What John said!
(((Chuck))), good luck and thanks!
(((Jimmy))), bravo for everything you have done for us and shown to us. You're an amazing guy, a great artist and so much more!
I so hope I'll see you here again, one of these days, and wish you loads of luck with everything you're planning and doing right now
Hugs and a froggy smoochie,
Ing
:-*
Miss ya !!
:'(
-
Huge thanks to Jimmy for all the great work on TDS, absolutely years of dedication!
And of course Chuck has been dedicated to the forum all that time in other ways. Thanks for taking on TDS.
-
Chuck - Bravo for picking up TDS! I'm sure you will be taking it new directions - surprise us!
Jimmy - Thanks so much for the wonderful job you have done over the years as well as the very entertaining posts you are famous for. I'm not sure some of these threads will survive without your humor, and raw candidness. I am sorry you cannot spend time with us as much these days. Yes, our lives can become busy and sometime things have to give - hopefully things will re-arrange themselves and you can drop in from time to time. Wishing you well in all your pursuits. The next time I get to LA, I hope we all can do dinner again - Thai for sure. Later, Vincent
-
Thanks Chuck (hugs) for taking on TDS good luck
And {{{{{{Jimmy}}}}}}} thanks for all the hard work you put into it. I hope you might return to the forum when you're able. I will especially miss your Photo caps they were hysterical.
-
Miss you Jimmy, but well done on your first issue Chuck!!
Sal ;D
-
Thanks for the article on McMurtry downsizing his book stores. I visited Archer City last summer and I couldn't stop myself from buying about 5 books. Every one of them turned out to be an excellent purchase and I have no regrets.
His book stores in Archer city take up at least four buildings, maybe more-- it is a huge collection of wonderful books. I'm glad I got to see it before this inevitable downsize.
-
Thanks for putting the link to the AIDS walk donations in TDS!
It gained at least one more donor to the cause!
-
Thank you ((((((Jimmy))))) for all your hard work on TDS! Good luck in all you plan to do. Miss seeing you around here....
Thank you (((((Chuck))))) for taking it on! It's great to have TDS back!
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Oh, yes, I agree so much.
I've missed TDS's question of the week. Can you do this chuck or prefer not to?
kathy :)
-
For the new question of the week, I'm going to say The Beatles. I really don't know :D
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For a while there was a gathering in Albuquerque on 20 May for the solar eclipse, organized on Facebook, but unfortunately this appears to have fallen through. But I'll be there!
In fact, I even made a reservation at a Super 8 Motel, which is unusual for me! :D
-
Q of the week --
ha! I think the Jackson 5 did it, but I don't know if they were first. It's not an easy thing to do. The Beatles? maybe, depending on which 1st album where (UK or states)
eta: I will NOT google this
-
RE: Question of the week --
I'll say the Beatles. (I want to hold your hand; She loves you - the top two)?
kathy :)
-
or the Monkees
;D
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I love that picture you chose to symbolize brokie gatherings, Chuck!
Because of the combo of suitcases and cowboy hat, obviously -- but even more because the red suitcase happens to be mine! :D
I love to see it in a pic as a symbol of brokies meeting and having fun together!!
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I love to see it in a pic as a symbol of brokies meeting and having fun together!!
That pic was a happy accident. ;D
The hat and case it's on are mine. I put the hat down on top of the bag, and then looked at it and thought "That makes a good pic!" so I took it, and now (like you said) I use it as a symbol of Brokies gathering together.
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Happy accident indeed! ;D
-
OK before the Q of the week is answered, I'm going to throw out one more Motown guess.
The Supremes.
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This Week's Question: The Billboard Magazine Hot 100 chart debuted in 1958. Starting from that date, and going to the current year, can you name the first group (not solo act/performer) that was able to get four Top 10 Hot 100 hits from their debut album?
I'm usually pretty sharp on these Q's of the week, and even as a self proclaimed trivia nut of musical groups, this one has me stumped. I think Ellen might be on the right track with the Beatles, and which of their albums is considered 'debut'. I have always considered the album 'Please Please Me' as their debut album, but it didn't produce the hits needed to answer the question.
If I'm not mistaken, 'Please Please Me' was the debut album for the Beatles in the U.K. in 1963, and 'Introducing...The Beatles' could be considered their debut album in the U.S. in early 1964. But neither of these produced four hit singles.
If I'm not mistaken, there was a female, trio group who went by the name of Expose in the late 80's and early 90's, and they were wildly popular in the dance clubs at the time, and I recall they set the Billboard Charts on fire with their debut album. But I'm not sure of the number of hits their debut album generated, but it was more than two; and I don't even know the name of the album, but do remember hearing a lot about Expose back in those days when freestyle was the big thing at the dance clubs.
-
Just a wild guess to this week's Question: Lady Bird Johnson?
-
Just a wild guess to this week's Question: Lady Bird Johnson?
A guess for me also, but I'm going to say it was Bess Truman.
-
My guess is Eleanor Roosevelt.
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Hi Chuck,
Thanks for posting the synopsis for "Handsome Harry" !!
I watched the film again this past weekend and it remains firmly on my top 5 "must see" films.
Folks, do not let the title dissuade you from giving it a chance! THIS film was solely overlooked when it was released in April 2010 and I'm not sure why - unless it was the subject material...navy guys, the 1960/1970's, homophobia, ... ?
Handsome Harry has a great male cast: Steve Buscemi, excellent as always, Aidan Quinn, Campbell Scott (oh my...), Jamey Sheridan (nice..) , John Savage, ... The film makes great strides to develop each of Harry's "navy buddies" as they are visited by Harry during his attempt to grant a dying buddy's wish and for himself to learn the truth about something awful - a dark haunting memory none of the men want to talk about it but all have been living with in guilty shame for 30+ years - eating away at their souls.
Bette Gordan's film, released in April 2010, shows us a familiar journey with several twists which we glimpse thru flashbacks. Some of these are wonderful snapshots into a younger, carefree but rose-colored past while other views are filled with hate, anger, betrayal and love which cannot be...
Below are links to reviews and a link to my original posting:
http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-04-13/film/bette-gordon-s-variety-and-handsome-harry-at-ifc/
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126174228
Gay Cinema Thread --> http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=277.msg2140758#msg2140758
I encourage you to grab your favorite beverage, some popcorn and plant yourself one evening and WATCH THIS FILM!!! Consider carefully how BBM is presented, the haunting musical notes throughout, the tone and tempo and you will hear parallels with Handsome Harry. Not only will the the score, reverberate, which I perhaps like a bit better due to the Jazz elements, but also the dialog will make your skin crawl. See if you can find those BBM lines. Trust me, they are there! And of course, I'd love to know your thoughts on the ending and how it plays.
Whenever I watch this, all I can think is karma baby karma!
If you would like to discuss the film, we've love to have you over in the Gay Films thread or you can PM me if prefer something more personal.
Cheers, Vincent.
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I did wonder whether the flashbacks in HH could have had a little more detail - something more meaty. But on the whole, a very commendable movie.
SPOILERS
As to the ending, I'd caught a glimpse of it in my mind just before the rerun of the shower scene where the true nature of their navy relationship becomes clearer. A fascinating journey for Harry's memory though I do wonder at the lapses from which he suffered, even though they had had a skin full that night.
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My guess is Eleanor Roosevelt.
What was the question? I can't find it.
"I've been in war, and I've been in Eleanor! And frankly, I prefer war..."--Franklin Roosevelt
-
The question is always at the end of the current TDS.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=45260.msg2267684#msg2267684
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I'm guessing one of the earlier ones...Mrs. Ulysses S. Grant.
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What was the question? I can't find it.
"I've been in war, and I've been in Eleanor! And frankly, I prefer war..."--Franklin Roosevelt
I don't blame you, Mr. Roosevelt.
kathy
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What was the question? I can't find it.
"I've been in war, and I've been in Eleanor! And frankly, I prefer war..."--Franklin Roosevelt
I don't blame you, Franklin.
kathy
I would delete these except now that there are two comments I'll tell you why, instead, the comments are disrespectful to women.
On this board, gay and bi men express a desire not to be judged for superficial reasons.
I don't know whether Mark and Kathy believe all of Eleanor Roosevelt's activities were wrong politically, but if so that would belong on another thread.
If you are talking about her looks, and I believe that is what the "joke" refers to, then it's a superficial and IMO wrong judgment of a woman because -- perhaps -- she is a woman?
And finally, it's not a quote from Franklin Roosevelt, although kathy's response makes me wonder if some people might believe it is.
So I'll leave it up for now, but it's not a response to the daily sheet and in addition to being disprespectful to women reading this board, it's also off-topic.
-
I, for one, won't mind of you delete them, Ellen.
They are, as you say, disrespectful to women and don't belong on a forum that's all about tolerance, imo.
-
Nice reminder of the fun had in Oxford!!
;D
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Speaking of the gay prom date in the daily comics, I heard yesterday
that the X-Men comic book is featuring a gay wedding soon, if not
all ready, and not to be out-done Marvel comics is revealing that one
of it's already known superheroes is coming out of the closet. Some
of the Marvel superheroes are Batman, Robin, Superman, Wonder Woman,
Aquaman, The Flash, Spiderman...?
Robin seems an easy choice perhaps. Or Wonder Woman as the teen
boys and older men might get into that. I always thought of The Flash as
gay becasue the actor who played him in the tv series is. John Wesley Shipp.
My personal favorite choice would be The Green Arrow, but I don't know if he's
Marvel or not. I know he's Marvel-ous!
-
Hey Lyle. X-Men is part of Marvel Comics.
The Green Arrow is part of DC Comics.
Marvel Comics:
The Avengers
Team Leader-Maria Hill
Members:
Protector (Noh-Varr)
Hawkeye (Clint Barton)
Iron Man (Tony Stark)
Spider-Man (Peter Parker)
Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew)
Thor (Thor Odinson)
Wolverine (James Howlett)
Red Hulk (Thaddeus Ross)
The New Avengers
Team Leader-Luke Cage
Members:
Squirrel Girl (Doreen Green)
Iron Fist (Daniel Rand)
Jewel (Jessica Jones-Cage)
Mockingbird (Bobbi Morse)
Spider-Man (Peter Parker)
The Thing (Ben Grimm)
Wolverine (James Howlett)
Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers)
Victoria Hand
"Secret" Avengers
Team Leader-Steve Rogers
Ant-Man (Eric O'Grady)
Beast (Henry McCoy)
Black Widow (Natasha Romanoff)
Moon Knight (Marc Spector)
Nova (Richard Rider)
Sharon Carter
Valkyrie (Brunnhilde)
War Machine (James Rhodes)
DC Comics:
Aquaman
Batgirl
Batman
Cyborg
Green Arrow
Green Lantern
Plastic Man
Robin
SHAZAM!
Supergirl
Superman
Swamp Thing
The Flash
Titans
Watchmen
Wonder Woman
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The only food I can think of that doesn't spoil is salt.
-
Honey!
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Liked the story about Green Lantern, but I believe he was portrayed by Ryan Reynolds, not Ryan Gosling, in the movie. Gosling would not have been a bad choice, either. ;)
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I don't know how far patents go (when they were started), but
Thomas Jefferson invented several things so he's my choice.
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Last Week's Question: What is the only food that does not spoil?
The correct answer is honey.
Well, that's good to know, I have a teeny tiny promotional jar of honey--a movie item
that was promoting Ulee's Gold and I've had it for years!
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl543%2Fjakeheathfan%2FHarvey-Milk-Street.jpg&hash=358f8abf0f3b159821f852583ac6f12cf96ceb40)
Is this at the corner of Kurt and Blaine? :)
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Well, that's good to know, I have a teeny tiny promotional jar of honey--a movie item
that was promoting Ulee's Gold and I've had it for years!
here is a question, don't know if Chuck can answer it --
How long will a can of Bettermost (not really) Beans last? The kind you get at a BBQ in TX in 2006?
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Liked the story about Green Lantern, but I believe he was portrayed by Ryan Reynolds, not Ryan Gosling, in the movie. Gosling would not have been a bad choice, either. ;)
Hello Sandy! Thanks for the correction. I knew it was Ryan Reynolds, I have no idea why I put Gosling there. I made the correction to TDS.
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Well, that's good to know, I have a teeny tiny promotional jar of honey--a movie item
that was promoting Ulee's Gold and I've had it for years!
I'm sure honey is correct, but has anyone ever heard of spoilt salt?
I'm sure salt is correct too.
-
I'm sure honey is correct, but has anyone ever heard of spoilt salt?
I'm sure salt is correct too.
Salt, also known as table salt, or rock salt, is a crystalline mineral that is composed primarily of sodium chloride (NaCl), a chemical compound belonging to the larger class of ionic salts. It is essential for animal life in small quantities, but is harmful to animals and plants in excess. Salt is one of the oldest, most ubiquitous food seasonings and salting is an important method of food preservation. Salt is an additive to food, but not classified as a "food".
Honey is a mixture of sugars and other compounds. With respect to carbohydrates, honey is mainly fructose (about 38.5%) and glucose (about 31.0%), making it similar to the synthetically produced inverted sugar syrup, which is approximately 48% fructose, 47% glucose, and 5% sucrose. Honey's remaining carbohydrates include maltose, sucrose, and other complex carbohydrates. As with all nutritive sweeteners, honey is mostly sugars and contains only trace amounts of vitamins or minerals. Honey also contains tiny amounts of several compounds thought to function as antioxidants, including chrysin, pinobanksin, vitamin C, catalase, and pinocembrin. The specific composition of any batch of honey depends on the flowers available to the bees that produced the honey.
Typical honey analysis:
Fructose: 38.2%
Glucose: 31.3%
Maltose: 7.1%
Sucrose: 1.3%
Water: 17.2%
Higher sugars: 1.5%
Ash: 0.2%
Other/undetermined: 3.2%
Honey has nutritional value, and is considered a food.
-
Additive......hm.....
-
Honey is sometimes used by doctors to help heal wounds, because of its property of keeping forever. Bacteria etc can't live in it.
-
Awww... Sonja, honey!
:-*
Sorry, I'm not trying to rub salt in your wounds :D
Actually, one of my best friends did a school project on bees and honey production, and that's the only reason I knew the answer to that question.
-
seems unbelievable...it took until 2012?
Adam just released his new CD, Tresspassing, and it debuted on the Billboard Top 200 at #1, making Adam the first openly gay man to hit #1 on the Billboard Album chart. Elton John and George Michael both hit #1 as well, but they were not out at the time of their chart runs.
-
This came in too late to make it into TDS:
Focus Features anniversary screening, followed by a conversation with Ang Lee and James Schamus.
Thursday, June 7, 2012 | 7:30 pm
The Los Angeles County Museum of Art
5905 Wilshire Boulevard Los Angeles, CA 90036
http://www.lacma.org/event/brokeback-mountain (http://www.lacma.org/event/brokeback-mountain)
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Awww... Sonja, honey!
:-*
Sorry, I'm not trying to rub salt in your wounds :D
Actually, one of my best friends did a school project on bees and honey production, and that's the only reason I knew the answer to that question.
Additive, schmadditive...
Hmpf.... >:(
If you eat it, it's food! That's the way I see it, and I'm sticking to it!
However, I'd be willing to share first prize with you, coz I'm very generous! 8)
Where is first prize anyway?
I was expecting a red carpet and a brass band to celebrate the winner!
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Additive, schmadditive...
Hmpf.... >:(
If you eat it, it's food! That's the way I see it, and I'm sticking to it!
However, I'd be willing to share first prize with you, coz I'm very generous! 8)
Where is first prize anyway?
I was expecting a red carpet and a brass band to celebrate the winner!
You are so sweet! And I would definitely share my prize with you!
<cough> There is a prize... right?
::)
-
You two have been spoilt by the Slash Discussion prizes..... :D
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You two have been spoilt by the Slash Discussion prizes..... :D
In general, there are too few prizes in this thread! 8)
-
We'll see what we can do about prizes as soon as mods start getting a paycheck!! ;D
-
I'm fairly certain Bill Clinton has a patent on the phrase "I don't remember" :D :D ;D
-
I was given an alloted budget for prizes, so you'll just have to tough it out.
;D
*waits for guesses on the current question of the week*
oh, on a side note, I'm in Boston for the AIDS Walk this weekend, it may delay the next TDS by a day.
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What is the only bird that can fly backwards?
Hummingbird?
-
I'm fairly certain Bill Clinton has a patent on the phrase "I don't remember" :D :D ;D
Well, along with about half of all defendants in criminal trials; but never let a chance go by to demonize a Democratic POTUS.
-
Hummingbird?
Hummingbirds for sure! Just tonight I was watching several of them at one of my feeders, and they were flying in circles, forwards, backwards, up, down.....and I love how they can just hover in the same spot. Many times, a group of them will fight over the feeder, and I have even seen them fly upside down!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi165.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu70%2Fgertie_06%2FNature%2FIMG_0642.jpg&hash=a49cfa96ceeec56feb4434936fc6e697f3b45e33)
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And they've got such relatively weak legs that they fly from one perch to another, even one less than an inch down a branch or feeder device. They can grip with their feet, of course, but lateral motion other than flying is impossible for them.
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I know the answer to the new question, because I did research on the topic while writing one of my stories!
It's Gay Related Immune Deficiency, I think. Which is totally messed up because it doesn't just affect gay people ::) In the movie Forrest Gump, the character Jenny dies of what is widely believed to have been AIDS, and it was about that time.
-
Yep. Also known then by its acronym GRID.
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Dear Friends of Out West:
This coming Saturday, on June 23rd at 2:00 PM, I will present my workshop, “On Staging LGBT History: Laramie, Brokeback & ‘8’”in the West Hollywood Library Community Room. This will be my third Out West program for One City One Pride. www.weho.org/pride (http://www.weho.org/pride)
Staging public testimony is an effective, efficient, and dramatic way to tell a story and preserve LGBT oral history. A brief lecture on how the documentary play is developed will be followed by Diversity Day, a staged reenactment—with audience participation— of recent Montana LGBT history which I adapted from an actual Missoula City Council Journal of Proceedings.
After Mayor John Engen of Missoula declared April 12, 2010 “Diversity Day”, six hours of powerful public testimony was heard prior to a Missoula City Council vote to add sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression to the city’s existing antidiscrimination ordinance – a first in Montana state history.
Footage of the original hearing will be screened as 45 minutes of redacted testimony is read by volunteers from the audience. The Missoula City Council has blessed this project.
"Diversity Day" is an opportunity to meet the Montana LGBT community and their friends who I have gotten to know and come to love- through the courage and power of their own words.
Please join me, if only to read a short passage, as a shout-out to Missoula from WeHo. I would be so grateful.
Thank you.
Gregory Hinton,
Creator and Producer of Out West
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Thanks for a great new TDS.
The answer to this weeks question, what European country first allowed full rights to same sex couples I believe is Denmark.
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I thought it was somewhere like that, Mia. Sure I read that...so I'm going to say the same :)
-
I'm thinking, octopus--as the most intelligent invertebrate.
-
I was so appalled at the story about the couple who's engagement picture was used for a Republican attack add. What a disgusting thing to do, stealing a personal image and using it for such a purpose.
Family values........none...............moral values none.
-
My reaction exactly, Jess.
-
Regarding the question yesterday.....who are the four Kings represented in a deck of playing cards....The King of Spades is said to be David, the ancient King of Israel; the king of Clubs is supposed to be Alexander the Great; the king of Hearts, the French King Charlemagne (some say Charles I); and the king of Diamonds is the Roman, Caesar Augustus.
On a side note, The king of hearts is sometimes called the "suicide king" because he appears to be sticking his sword into his head.
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Damn! When I saw on the daily sheet banner that Michelle Williams would be open to a DC reunion I thought DAVE CULLEN, not DAWSON'S CREEK! I was thinking maybe she'd attend a forum reunion somewhere!
>:(
-
London in November Michelle..........bring Matilda! :D :D :D
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Damn! When I saw on the daily sheet banner that Michelle Williams would be open to a DC reunion I thought DAVE CULLEN, not DAWSON'S CREEK! I was thinking maybe she'd attend a forum reunion somewhere!
>:(
That was my first reaction too, Mark. Although I found it hard to believe.
-
Dave will be interviewed several times today.
Dave Cullen
FYI I'll be on TV several times today, grim subject. Andrea Mitchell, Hardball, Sean Hannity & BBC.
-
Good thing Dave moved to New York. Very convenient for the news shows that want him on when there's another mass shooting. :-\
When I watched him on those, he looked older than I remembered. Then I realized this forum's over six years old -- we've all gotten older. ::)
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"If There I haven't Found It Yet" is not in fact Jake's stage debut, only his American one. In 2002 he performed very successfully in "This Is Our Youth", at the Garrick Theatre London. Here's part of a review from "The Guardian".
"As a result, the focus in Laurence Boswell's production is very much on the performances. Hayden Christensen, looking like a taller Martin Amis, exhibits a fine rangy sulkiness as Dennis. Jake Gyllenhaal as Warren is naturally comic and engagingly defenceless. And Anna Paquin as Jessica combines prim formality of speech with an argumentative sexual ardour. All three are highly talented, instantly beguiling young actors even if Lonergan's study of subsidised social rebels leaves you wanting more."
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Good thing Dave moved to New York. Very convenient for the news shows that want him on when there's another mass shooting. :-\
When I watched him on those, he looked older than I remembered. Then I realized this forum's over six years old -- we've all gotten older. ::)
Yes it is that old and we all have gotten older. :D
Plus the fact that he has gone none stop since Friday, with little sleep. He did a total of 16 news talk shows and radio shows on Monday alone, starting at 6 am.
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I was proud to say to friends," You know that web forum I write on, well Dave Cullen who runs it was just on the news!"
-
NEWS BOX
The Daily Sheet - July 24: Dave Cullen's interviews in response to Aurora shootings, active duty military members in San Diego pride parade, Stephen Ira Beatty discusses being a trans man, Roberta Maxwell takes to the stage, Jake Gyllenhall's stage debut.
...ummm...
Shouldn't that be "Gyllenhaal"
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^^^^check.
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I was that delayed member
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
it certainly was not a fun day - till we got to Texas.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe267%2Fnickjadegreen%2FBBQ%2Fbbq272.jpg&hash=b262c0abb15d85140602b25463e9c1818cc1304a)
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I was that delayed member
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
it certainly was not a fun day - till we got to Texas.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe267%2Fnickjadegreen%2FBBQ%2Fbbq272.jpg&hash=b262c0abb15d85140602b25463e9c1818cc1304a)
That's hanging in the video..I've watched often. V
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I was that delayed member
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
it certainly was not a fun day - till we got to Texas.
And I (and many more) were so glad you made it!!!
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Yeah!
Because of various security scares at that time, a number of people from Europe were late, as well as some from other places in this country.
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I was that delayed member
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
it certainly was not a fun day - till we got to Texas.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi41.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe267%2Fnickjadegreen%2FBBQ%2Fbbq272.jpg&hash=b262c0abb15d85140602b25463e9c1818cc1304a)
I stood in my living room crying that day, thinking so many people were not going to be able to make it, because of the delay. I am so very glad everyone made it, although somewhat late.
I look at this picture everyday as it is hanging in my living room, a housewarming gift from Nick when I moved from Texas to California. Thanks, so much, Nick! :-*
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Yay! Good times it was, kind of a tiredness, heat, happy induced haze for days.
We should all do it again. Hey Linda can you get 60+ people in your house there? ;)
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That's hanging in the video..I've watched often. V
Certainly is....an emblematic snapshot of that weekend.
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Oh gosh, That was Nick (triggerhippie) and myself. The security was sooo bad I had to hide a cigarette under each of my girls so I could smoke when we had to change planes, I even had to send my glasses case home by post, I wasn't allowed to take them on the plane. We had left home very early AM, I know I was dead tired, but with everyone there that day I know I sat and nattered for hours!! I even had the energy to pick Glenn (my angel) off the floor and swing him round ;D
A wonderful time, never to be surpassed. You had to be there to get it...........................
A big thank you to Linda, it wouldn't have happened without you and to the 80 odd other members who were there. Those, WERE the days my friends
:-*
edit: Yes I know I've come out of lurkdom to post here, but I'm here virtually every day, just reading and occasionally posting ;D
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Whoops, I see I was late, Nick got there first ;D
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Yay! Good times it was, kind of a tiredness, heat, happy induced haze for days.
We should all do it again. Hey Linda can you get 60+ people in your house there? ;)
Not in my house but there is a City Park that would fit the bill just fine!! And several Motels right down the street!!
Maybe I should start planning..............
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Oh gosh, That was Nick (triggerhippie) and myself. The security was sooo bad I had to hide a cigarette under each of my girls so I could smoke when we had to change planes, I even had to send my glasses case home by post, I wasn't allowed to take them on the plane. We had left home very early AM, I know I was dead tired, but with everyone there that day I know I sat and nattered for hours!! I even had the energy to pick Glenn (my angel) off the floor and swing him round ;D
A wonderful time, never to be surpassed. You had to be there to get it...........................
A big thank you to Linda, it wouldn't have happened without you and to the 80 odd other members who were there. Those, WERE the days my friends
:-*
edit: Yes I know I've come out of lurkdom to post here, but I'm here virtually every day, just reading and occasionally posting ;D
Thanks, Sal!! It has always been my pleasure to be able to do it for everyone! I was so glad and relieved you and Nick and Conny made it despite them having the audacity to try to put a kink in the works with the security scare that weekend!! :P >:( WHEW!
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff211%2Fkillersmom%2FBBQ%25202006%2FBBMBBQ2006073.jpg&hash=378f6ca7e61790a1f4a54c630799a2b85cecacdb)
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi48.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff211%2Fkillersmom%2FBBQ%25202006%2FBBMBBQ2006150.jpg&hash=8d30d5c0c99432954b1cf3d67dbfe35a4d28437b)
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;D
:-*
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A wonderful time, never to be surpassed. You had to be there to get it...........................
A big thank you to Linda, it wouldn't have happened without you and to the 80 odd other members who were there. Those, WERE the days my friends
80? I would have guessed more!
Do you have an official count, Linda?
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Ellen my official count was 88, including those who just came for the day and such.
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Was amazing and about 3 days too short. :)
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Was amazing and about 3 days too short. :)
And how. Even for those who arrived early and stayed late.
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Excellent about the contribution to the It Gets Better project. A worthy organization.
And boo on the Gay Hate Day. The citizens of 1984's Oceania would be proud, few others.
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Out West creator Gregory Hinton reports from the road . . .
Had a great experience in Indianapolis. We had a terrific turnout. John Vanausdall, president of the Eitlejorg Museum introduced the day-long program including Hidden Histories (gallery tour), Brokeback Mountain, and Beyond Brokeback (staged reading). Zach Adamson, the first openly gay city councilman of Indianapolis read the part of Dave Cullen. Standing ovation!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FBB1-1.jpg&hash=7be247a398af8f3e4ac48de1b12cea0a65fc2172)
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FBB2.jpg&hash=7b956b9a10a918bdb0ecffebbc64f7dc8dd697fc)
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It is wonderful to honor our beloved Heath in any way. If only he were here. Sigh...
kathy
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we were very successful with our self-published book Beyond Brokeback, recovering our publication costs and then some.
It was great to read Dave's message in TDS, and to know that Beyond Brokeback was not only a successful effort, but also a financial success.
Very happy to know our forum has made a donation to an organization that will use it wisely -- it's great to know all of our forum energy has turned into a tangible, positive influence for a good organization.
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It's wonderful to see concrete benefits going to help others. This forum has helped so many members, including myself, but the donation is a wonderful way to honour the short story, film, and Heath. He would have been pleased by this. My copy of Beyond Brokeback is treasured. I do laugh though, at the back-to-front way I went about it all. Found the book during my search in late 2006 for anything about the film, through that, came to the forum. Better late than never.
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re the contribution, don't think it could be better than that! thanks.
kj
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Thanks for all the positive feedback on the contribution to It Gets Better.
They are really doing amazing work.
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Out West creator Gregory Hinton reports from the road . . .
Had a great experience in Indianapolis. We had a terrific turnout. John Vanausdall, president of the Eitlejorg Museum introduced the day-long program including Hidden Histories (gallery tour), Brokeback Mountain, and Beyond Brokeback (staged reading). Zach Adamson, the first openly gay city councilman of Indianapolis read the part of Dave Cullen. Standing ovation!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi275.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fjj282%2FSanFranciscoJohn%2FBB1-1.jpg&hash=7be247a398af8f3e4ac48de1b12cea0a65fc2172)
This is so good to hear. (And to hear that there IS a gay councilman in Indy. It tickles me every time I hear someone playing the part of Dave Cullen. Still can't wrap my head around that. Hehe.
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Now that must be really odd, Dave.
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I remember in the intro to the reading in Chicago, they introduced the first person to speak as "Dave Cullen", and not realizing that it was already part of the acted reading, we were wondering if you might be making a surprise showing, Dave!
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Yeah, I remember that too. It took me a while to realize it was part of the performance.
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Thanks for posting the news (and the Amazon link) that The Front Runner is available for Kindle. It's been one of the books on my to-read list, so one click and five minutes later I was reading it -- and am enjoying it very much.
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I am so glad you were able to get it and read it, Kim. It is really a good book. I read it a few years ago, shortly after I joined the forum. Let me me know what you think when you finish.
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FORUM OUTAGE ISSUES
As most of you are aware, the forum has been offline intermittently over the last few days. BayCityJohn/John has been putting in many hours fixing things and getting us back online. This is not a simple thing, and really is very time consuming. Simply put, we had run out of disk space on our host server, and with 6 years of posts and the required daily backups, (to make sure we don't lose any of it) we had used up the amount of space we pay for each month.
So Dave and John have added extra disk space that we buy monthly. We hope that this will alleviate any future problems. Dave wanted me to apologize to everyone for the downtime, and even though we try to keep things moving along, sometimes, shit things like this happen!
Thanks for your patience and understanding and please send big thank yous to John, for all this extra work and for keeping the hundreds of spammers the forum gets bombarded with daily. There is a lot of 'behind the scene' things that need to be taken care of on a regular basis on a forum this size.
Thanks everyone
killersmom/Linda
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I'm sure there is a lot of behind the scene stuff that needs to be done every single day!
Thanks to everyone who takes this on, and extra big thanks to John for all your work for the forum and for all of us!!!
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I agree with Linda, Dave and Sonja.
I'm extremely grateful for all the energy and time invested to keep our forum alive and working.
DANKE (((JOHN)))
:) :) :)
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Thanks so much for the update. I really appreciate you-all taking the extra time, after fixing the problems, to let us know what happened.
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Thanks John, and thanks Dave!
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Yes, thanks John, Dave and all who work here behind the scenes.
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I can't begin to imagine what all goes on behind the scenes here. My regular daily job is doing this same sort of work, along with other duties for my employer, and it is monumental. A lot of it is automated, such as the daily backups, but many other tasks require 'getting the hands dirty' and figuring out just what is causing the problem.
Considering the age and size of this forum now, it has to be quite a chore. Thanks to all who keep this place going.
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After the backup is finished tonight I am going to restart the server, so the forum may be down for about 15 minutes around midnight Pacific time.
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Would deleting PMs help? We haven't been asked to do that for a long time.
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Would deleting PMs help? We haven't been asked to do that for a long time.
It wouldn't hurt, but it's not causing the problem. I think we have plenty of space now.
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I'll be shutting the forum down a few times today for some maintenance.
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Thanks to everyone who works so hard to keep the forum running problem free. You all do an incredible job.
Now, there is plenty of space... hate to ask, but what about money?
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We had extra funds that were donated to the "It Get's Better" program, and some was kept back for the running of the forum.
I think at this point, though, Dave is paying for the server out of his pocket.
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So, are we fund raising? Better get me before the holidays....
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Not yet, but Meli and I were talking about it today at lunch.
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Well, I know Dave is rich and famous now, but why should he have to support the habit for all of us?
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I am so glad you were able to get it and read it, Kim. It is really a good book. I read it a few years ago, shortly after I joined the forum. Let me me know what you think when you finish.
I've read the Front Runner and enjoyed it. How do the sequels match up?
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I'm sure there is a lot of behind the scene stuff that needs to be done every single day!
Thanks to everyone who takes this on, and extra big thanks to John for all your work for the forum and for all of us!!!
And very much ditto from me!
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Not yet, but Meli and I were talking about it today at lunch.
The forum has an Amazon partnership account, right? If there isn't a thread that lists all the books and movies that have been recommended here over the years, with a link to the Amazon page, there should be. I indulge in much more impulse book-buying now that I use an iPad with a Kindle app and would readily buy some with one click if the titles were gathered in one place here. The forum would get a little money from it.
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Would deleting PMs help? We haven't been asked to do that for a long time.
true!
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The forum has an Amazon partnership account, right? If there isn't a thread that lists all the books and movies that have been recommended here over the years, with a link to the Amazon page, there should be. I indulge in much more impulse book-buying now that I use an iPad with a Kindle app and would readily buy some with one click if the titles were gathered in one place here. The forum would get a little money from it.
good idea
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Thank you to John, to Dave, and to everyone, for all of your efforts and hard work.
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I'll be shutting the forum down a few times today for some maintenance.
BCJ, I didn't know about this - have been offline due to comp. problems and not feeling very well on top of that.
Thanks to you and all who do maintenance.
kathy
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I've read the Front Runner and enjoyed it. How do the sequels match up?
I read both "Harlan's Race" and "Billy's Boy" and enjoyed them both, Sara.
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The forum has an Amazon partnership account, right? If there isn't a thread that lists all the books and movies that have been recommended here over the years, with a link to the Amazon page, there should be. I indulge in much more impulse book-buying now that I use an iPad with a Kindle app and would readily buy some with one click if the titles were gathered in one place here. The forum would get a little money from it.
I like this idea a lot, Kim, but I am just not sure anyone has the large amount of time it would take to pull all these recommendations together.
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The forum has an Amazon partnership account, right? If there isn't a thread that lists all the books and movies that have been recommended here over the years, with a link to the Amazon page, there should be. I indulge in much more impulse book-buying now that I use an iPad with a Kindle app and would readily buy some with one click if the titles were gathered in one place here. The forum would get a little money from it.
I like this idea a lot, Kim, but I am just not sure anyone has the large amount of time it would take to pull all these recommendations together.
You can still contribute to the forum through Amazon. Look at the bottom of the page, there is a little postage stamp icon you can click on that will take you to Amazon. From there, you can go to any section of Amazon and order anything -- anything at all -- and the forum will receive a small percentage. If we all made that a habit (I admit I have forgotten lately) -- we could make a big difference in the cash flow and really support the running of the forum.
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I've read the Front Runner and enjoyed it. How do the sequels match up?
Hey Cally this is a great discussion for the "Book I read lately..." thread -- but while we are here I will say that a group of us read The Front Runner and had a discussion about it when we used to do the book club. The thread is archived but you can still read the discussion here. (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=12775.0)
The second book in the series, Harlan's Race, is very engaging if you enjoyed Front Runner.
I read the third one as well, Billy's Boy -- and that got a little weird, but it was entertaining.
And finally -- one of the coolest things that happened since I got involved in the forum -- when we were at the Autry Museum in Los Angeles to see the first staging of Beyond Brokeback -- Patricia Nell Warren was there! I said hello to her and Debby (dejavu) was also there, it was great because Debbie is probably the biggest fan of the Front Runner series on the face of the planet. :D ;)
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I also had the honor to meet Patricia Nell Warren last year at The Autry, when she did a reading out of her newest book, "My West" and then had a book signing in the gift store afterwards.
She is truly an amazing woman and author. It was wonderful to hear her speak her written words!
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Hey Cally this is a great discussion for the "Book I read lately..." thread -- but while we are here I will say that a group of us read The Front Runner and had a discussion about it when we used to do the book club. The thread is archived but you can still read the discussion here. (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=12775.0)
The second book in the series, Harlan's Race, is very engaging if you enjoyed Front Runner.
I read the third one as well, Billy's Boy -- and that got a little weird, but it was entertaining.
And finally -- one of the coolest things that happened since I got involved in the forum -- when we were at the Autry Museum in Los Angeles to see the first staging of Beyond Brokeback -- Patricia Nell Warren was there! I said hello to her and Debby (dejavu) was also there, it was great because Debbie is probably the biggest fan of the Front Runner series on the face of the planet. :D ;)
Yes, I remember reading about you all meeting her :). Thanks for the recs, Ellen and Linda - I might wait for the Kindle editions of the later books (see Book thread :D), or check the library.
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You can still contribute to the forum through Amazon. Look at the bottom of the page, there is a little postage stamp icon you can click on that will take you to Amazon. From there, you can go to any section of Amazon and order anything -- anything at all -- and the forum will receive a small percentage. If we all made that a habit (I admit I have forgotten lately) -- we could make a big difference in the cash flow and really support the running of the forum.
Ages ago I remember looking into this and seeing that you could also do this via Amazon.co.uk, but I never followed it up and now can't see how it would work. I buy a lot from Amazon, not just for Kindle, so it seems a pity not to be including the donation.
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^^To the user, it's invisible, other than the fact that you enter Amazon from the forum. Over the past year the forum has received some money from Amazon so it must be working.
I actually don't know if it works via Amazon uk, but if you can access Amazon from the forum icon at the bottom of the page, possibly it will work. It's worth a try.
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Concerning the Hinsdale English teacher.
What grade level is she teaching?
Freshman?....usually British literature , "Great Expectations" , "David Copperfield". The idea is to introduce the student to a certain style of storytelling, language, dialect, character development.
Sophomore...usually American literature. "The Scarlet Letter". Expand the student's understanding of the above and introduce specific American social topics.
Senior...World literature... Shakespeare, "Les Miserables", "Huck Finn", "Brothers Karamazov". Use foundation prepared in Freshman and Sophomore curriculum to introduce global elements, style, characterization, social and political issues.
What is the Hinsdale teacher attempting to teach? Why use film? Is she conversant in film and how it is produced as an art form? (Is she conversant in literature and how it is produced as an art form?) Even the screenwriter and director can not specifically discuss the themes and motivations and characters in "American Beauty". What is the underlying purpose in using this film in an English course other than to simply be provocative?
Why not read the SS of "Brokeback Mountain" rather than the film? At least she could use the SS to elucidate the intricacies, restrictions, and beauty of the SS form when it is at its best and in the hands of a master. Of course there are literally thousands of other authors and stories she could use to the same end.
Both films are "R" rated. If this is a Senior English class, in which most of the students might be 17, how do these films fit in with World literature curriculum?
Both films are excellent, even superb, examples of their art form. Why not employ the English class curriculum to educate the students in the art of literature and storytelling and then let them discover these very mature films on their own.
Finally, Hinsdale is a VERY conservative, high income demographic community. Is this English teacher simply attempting to stir up needless controversy when her objectives, whatever they might be, could just as easily be obtained by employing alternative literature and leaving film study and analysis for another day?
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Re " "Scout denied Eagle badge." How awful, petty and cruel. A young man of this age getting denied the badge after all he put into earning it, is unbelievably nasty. I just think back to the sense of achievement and pride on my brothers face when he earned his wood badge. I hope the young man fights this all the way.
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Starfish usually have an eyespot, that can differentiate between light and dark, at the end of each "arm"! So the answer to your question depends on how many arms a starfish has. A five armed star fish will have 5 eyes and a 40 armed starfish will have 40 eyes
Sal ;D
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This Week's Question: What was the first album to be released on CD format?
I know a little bit about this as I have a huge CD collection, and have read the history of it's development, which was mainly in Germany starting in 1980. A company there played around with a number of albums in the classical genre, and then moved on to contemporary artists. I know they pressed some early Bee Gees, and ABBA albums into CD's but don't believe they were ever marketed...at least at that time. I think it was Billy Joel's 52nd Street , that was the first to be commercially released.
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This Week's Question: In China, animals are not allowed to use human language. This belief cause the ban of what book of which famous writer?
Oh this is an easy one....just read the book again last week! One of my favorites, but to give others a chance with a more complete answer, I will give just a couple of clues for now....it was written by Charles Lutwidge Dodgson in 1865. ;D ;D
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:D Not much of a disguise!
I was wondering Winnie the Pooh, but your answer goes back earlier.
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McTernan had planned to host a prayer meeting tonight (29 October), which would be streamed online on his website, however, he states that the services/meetings may be cut off as his house is in the path of Sandy, and he may lose power.
Good! >:( Moron.
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This Week's Question: In China, animals are not allowed to use human language. This belief cause the ban of what book of which famous writer?
Oh this is an easy one....just read the book again last week! One of my favorites, but to give others a chance with a more complete answer, I will give just a couple of clues for now....it was written by Charles Lutwidge Dodgson in 1865. ;D ;D
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TDS's weekly question:
"Alice in Wonderland".
Heath's WHO shoot:
He looks so young, happy and beautiful. I didn't know these pics were taken in Perth.
He never did like LA, never. I feel so bad...
kathy
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Rather than homosexuals being responsible for Hurricane Sandy, it struck me as more likely, if you believe in these things, as God, or nature, instructing us that no man can completely fend for himself, and that we have to co-operate and work together or we will not survive.
It should also teach us to be more humble in the face of forces which are so much stronger than we can ever be.
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Lewis Carroll - Alice in Wonderland.
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And as a result of the positive election news, recounted in TDS,
progress continues:
Obama nominates out African-American man to Florida judgeship
By Jacob Combs
Yesterday, President Obama submitted seven nominations to the federal bench, among them his first prospective gay African-American appointee. Judge William Thomas, who has been a member of Florida’s 11th Judicial Circuit since 2005, would be the first gay black man on the federal bench in history. Before his time on the bench in Florida, Judge Thomas worked as an assistant federal public defender in the Southern District of Florida, as well as an assistant public defender in Miami-Dade County. From Metro Weekly:
“These individuals have demonstrated the talent, expertise, and fair-mindedness Americans expect and deserve from their judicial system,” Obama said in a statement. “They also represent my continued commitment to ensure that the judiciary resembles the nation it serves. I am grateful for their willingness to serve and confident that they will apply the law with the utmost impartiality and integrity.”
More HERE (http://www.prop8trialtracker.com/2012/11/15/obama-nominates-out-african-american-man-to-florida-judgeship-2/)
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Happy Days.
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Yep, the Fonz literally jumped the shark!
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My recollection is that the Happy Days cast went to Hawaii, where Fonz, still wearing his leather jacket, goes out on a surfboard and jumps--on the board--over a shark.
I wonder, does anyone ever ask Ron Howard, who as we know went on to a relatively decent career, about the show being crystallized in that phrase? (It was a good show, usually!)
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Only now got around to read this latest issue of TDS.
Really enjoyed it.
Just one thing: what does "jump the shark" mean?
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It refers to a TV series that has gone on so long that the writers do bizarre things to retain viewers.
There was a series in the 70's called Happy Days, which capitalized on nostalgia for the 1950's back then and was set in that era. Several years into it, the writers had one of the actors, who played a "bad boy" and who always wore a leather jacket, water skiing in Hawaii while wearing his jacket, and jumping over a shark in the water there. After that point the series went downhill and was eventually cancelled.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
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Thanks, Fritz! New to me too....
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Thanks, Fritz.
I've heard it before, but never knew what it means.
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That makes at least three of us, Fritz - vielen Dank!
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Bitte sehr, y'all!
There's even a website discussing various series in reference to when or whether they have engaged in shark-jumping or not.
http://www.tvguide.com/jumptheshark
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Re: Nolan offering Heath the role of Batman: Wow. Does that mean Nolan was looking to replace Christian Bale for the second movie? That certainly seems to be the implication. The article isn't very clear, though--Nolan saying to Heath he wanted to do a more realistic take suggests it's before Batman Begins, but Heath accepting the Joker role could only be movie two.
Batman is really not the meat role in movie two--I'm so glad Heath did the Joker!
Wonder what Bale thought about Nolan replacing him…?
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RE: Box Office Mojo - Brokeback Mountain:
The $83+ million figure is just for the domestic gross. The world figure is way above $100+ million. I tried to find the site which states this, but just couldn't.
And BBM is Focus Features' #1 film in box-office grosses. Tried to find this site too...
kathy :)
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Hello TDS readers.
I apologize for the lack of a new TDS this week. I generally work on it Sunday and Monday, having it ready for Tuesday. I went out Sunday, and planned to spend Monday evening getting it ready.
I didn't expect to get a stomach flu on Sunday night. I was hoping that it would be the 24 hour kind, but I'm going on 48 hours now, I'm starting to feel better, but not where I should be. Since it's already mid-week, I'll pass on this week, and return next week.
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You deserve a vacation!
Hope you feel better soon!
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Is this where we put our best guesses about "Question of the Week?"
For the last Daily Sheet (December 11), the 4 candles of a 4-candle advent wreath represent each of the four Sundays prior to Christmas (one candle per week). On the 5-candle advent wreath, the "extra" fifth candle is usually in the center, is white, is sometimes called the "Christ Candle," and is lit on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.
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Thank you, darling Heath :-*, for Ennis and for Brokeback Mountain. I still can't believe you are not here. We will never forget.
"So sleep, silent angel; go to sleep".
So much love & missing always,
from kathy :'( :'(
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Thanks for the link to the memorial candle site. It's five years now, and the world had Heath such a short time.
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It's so hard to believe it's been 5 years already. I remember that afternoon so vividly, the devastation I (we all) felt when I saw the red headline on TDS, and the complete shock of it on top of knowing that Jackie was desperately ill and not long for this world. It was a terrible week, but it brought me a lot closer to my friends here as we shared our sorrow and grieved together for both Heath and Jackie.
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It was a terrible week. Our cat Felix had to be put down that week too, Mr Janjo had just recently lost his father...................
Not something I would want to go through again.
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Yes just terrible, Heath and then poor Jackie. :'( We have all lost so many people since then, I am sure. Where do the years go?
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2013/01/29/wdr-kathleen-wynne-gay-windsor-pride.html
I was happy to see Premier Wynne in the Daily Sheet (of course you could have posted a pic of her grey haired partner :D)
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Catholics Deliver One Million Anti-Gay Marriage Postcards
This is abhorrent.
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Yeah.
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Ditto
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TRIVIA QUESTION: I was going to guess, but I can't even think of a good one.
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In today's TDS:
A lesbian couple was turned away when they approached a local bakery looking to buy a cake for their wedding ceremony. The owner (Aaron Kline) said that he never intended on hurting anyone, but had to stand by his religious beliefs.
I was wondering if anyone had been turned away from buying a gun because
of religious beliefs?
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In today's TDS:
A lesbian couple was turned away when they approached a local bakery looking to buy a cake for their wedding ceremony. The owner (Aaron Kline) said that he never intended on hurting anyone, but had to stand by his religious beliefs.
I was wondering if anyone had been turned away from buying a gun because
of religious beliefs?
Never happen. The mindset that would turn away business because it would clash with religious tenets is too heavily associated with the type that would think that too many guns are not enough.
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DATE CHANGE
Thursday, MARCH 7, 2013
6:30 PM
Beyond Brokeback
Beyond Brokeback is a staged reading based on more than 500,000 posts from the Ultimate Brokeback Forum, capturing perspectives young and old, male and female, gay and straight. Directed by Marshall Shore and featuring music by Shawn Kirchner.
This is part of Out West, which is an ongoing series through March of programs that explores the contributions of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community to Western American history and culture, Out West will be held at the Burton Barr Central Library, 1221 N. Central Ave., Phoenix, AZ
http://www.phoenixpubliclibrary.org/branchinfo.jsp?bid=BBB (http://www.phoenixpubliclibrary.org/branchinfo.jsp?bid=BBB)
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In today's TDS:
A lesbian couple was turned away when they approached a local bakery looking to buy a cake for their wedding ceremony. The owner (Aaron Kline) said that he never intended on hurting anyone, but had to stand by his religious beliefs.
I was wondering if anyone had been turned away from buying a gun because
of religious beliefs?
Is there such a thing as a lesbian wedding cake?
http://www.people.com/people/gallery/0,,20220768_20499562,00.html
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Could they just go and buy one from whatever the US equivalent of Marks and Spencer's is, and put a model of two ladies on the top?
If the bakers don't want their money..................................
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This Week's Question: Approximately how many heart-shaped boxes of chocolate will be sold for Valentine's Day, and how much money will be spent on them?
Somewhere north of 36 million heart shaped boxes. Not sure of the money involved as some are small boxes and others are huge....with every other size in between.
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Could they just go and buy one from whatever the US equivalent of Marks and Spencer's is, and put a model of two ladies on the top?
If the bakers don't want their money..................................
Of course. But the fact that the incident occurred.....
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It's good to have The Forum Image back. And what a wonderful example from Nick.
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Just a little remark: the two last TDSs from Feb 12 and 19 still show (in the title line) the year 2012 instead of 2013...
;)
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Thanks Ing!
I quoted an older version for those two editions, and must've forgotten to change the year. When I checked now, it has the right date, so I assume that Linda took care of it.
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Tell you what, if I had been a member of eHarmony, I would be deleting my account right now. Homophobic prick >:(
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Geaux Bobby!
(And of course, the real name of the holiday is Washington's Birthday!!!!)
Happy Boitday George dawlin hawt!
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James Bond Themes: Nobody Does It Better, Live and Let Die, You Only Live Twice, For Your Eyes Only, Skyfall--I'm pretty sure of those.
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Well, if that pastor goes to prison, he will certainly have to keep himself open to new experiences.
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Well, if that pastor goes to prison, he will certainly have to keep himself open to new experiences.
::) >:D
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The Autry National Center in LA's Griffith Park (home of the shirts) presents "The Wilde West: Oscar Wilde and Buffalo Bill Cody" on Saturday, Mar 30, 2013, 2:00 p.m. Free with museum admission or membership.
http://theautry.org/programs/lectures-seminars-discussions/the-wilde-west (http://theautry.org/programs/lectures-seminars-discussions/the-wilde-west)
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RE: Reply to the TDS's question of the week:
I think the TV series is Charlie's Angels.
kathy :)
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I'd like to make a guess at this week's question; the first reality TV show...
Was it New Faces?
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What TV show is the longest running hour-long television series featuring all female leads?
Charmed
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First Reality Show: The Real World
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Well, I got last weeks question right!
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Well, I got last weeks question right!
Nice job!
I'm staying tuned to see if you get this week's answer right... next week ::)
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From today's TDS:
[At the GLAAD Awards] Former President Bill Clinton (pictured with daughter Chelsea) was given the first Advocate for Change Award, which surprised many people considering that it was during his terms as president that the Defense Of Marriage Act (DOMA) was signed into law, as well as the Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) policy.
I guess you just have to be an ADVOCATE for change and not change anything, but what he did was change matters for
the worse for gay people for two decades. I know people really like Bill Clinton but I'm on the side of "he shouldn't
have been awarded it." And it's the first one!
When it was reported that Clinton was would be honored at the GLAAD Awards, many criticized the decision - especially after the president was under fire for an op-ed piece he wrote for the Washington Post in which he urged the Supreme Court to overturn DOMA. Many political pundits, bloggers, and activists echoed the heckler’s sentiments and rejected Clinton’s piece as a political expediency.
Clinton signed DOMA because "he refused to be leader on a civil rights issue, irrationally fearful of the ramifications of vetoing the bill and rationalizing the damage caused by signing it," Michelangelo Signorile wrote in The Huffington Post. The Washington Blade’s editor-in-chief, Kevin Naff, opined that Clinton’s late apology is a "typically cynical, desperate bid to rewrite history." He wrote that Clinton’s op-ed is "a naked attempt to get on the right side of history before the Supreme Court strikes down DOMA. He sounds desperate, highlighting the fact that ’DOMA came to my desk, opposed by only 81 of the 535 members of Congress.’"
The organization should probably brace itself for blowback. Typical were the commentson gay blogsite JoeMyGod.
"Yet another example of the zero accountability culture in Washington DC.," wrote one. "Is this organization trying to self-destruct and become a laughing stock?" wrote another. "To my gay eyes it appears to exist solely to have glitzy awards ceremonies."
"This seems about par for the course, honoring someone who signed the most discriminatory act against gay and lesbians in history," wrote a commenter on Towleroad. "If he doesn’t acknowledge the damage DOMA has caused to millions of people and apologize for it then I hope he gets booed," wrote another.
The more I think about this, the more it angers me.
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Regarding the article concerning NBA player Jason Collins:
I found out on the local news here in the San Francisco (big news out in this area) about Jason Collins.
His silent gesture of solidarity with gay men is his jersey number 98 to remember the year Matthew Shepard was killed.
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A plea on behalf of 'foreign' readers: please could American acronyms and abbreviations be explained? This week we have NOM, PAC, AUP, even NBA (in the article - ok, I guessed "American sport, probably baseball" :)). Some of them I half know or guess at, but if space allows I'd appreciate a brief reminder!
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Sorry Sara! I hadn't thought of that.
NOM is National Organization for Marriage.
NBA is National Basketball Association.
AUP is American Unity Pac.
PAC is Political Action Commitee.
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I only knew NBA - that's why god created google :D
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I know and I do! :)
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Sara, I had the very same reaction to this week's TDS!
Thanks, Chuck, for your quick response.
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Just for accuracy's sake, Messiah College in Pennsylvania is (German) Brethren in heritage, not Catholic. Though officially nondenominational.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_College
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From today's TDS:
Milestone for Gay Athletes as Rogers Plays for Galaxy
Wow, the whole galaxy? That's some territory!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl543%2Fjakeheathfan%2F1-59.jpg&hash=6a5b048c7d889f91df67075ebd5fd804418315f8)
Personally, I don't like to go out with soccer players.
They're not allowed to use their hands.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl543%2Fjakeheathfan%2F3-23.jpg&hash=16d4f1ed221df4b4d2b42f5ff504a4f9c0051435)
This headline reminds me of one from the 1990's that I noticed.
I think I still have it somewhere. It was in USA TODAY. The two
headlines positioned near each other were:
NAVY TO REINSTATE GAY SAILOR
HOW SAFE IS OUR MEAT?
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SIDEBAR: After a week of disturbing headlines in 1992 during the L.A. riots,
the Los Angeles Times next Monday edition had the headline:
CITY RETURNS TO WORK, SCHOOL
I kept that paper in my office and on occasion when someone was visiting
I'd pull it out as though it was whatever day it was and say, "Boy it sure
must've been a slow news day yesterday!
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Hello everyone!
I won't be doing a TDS this week. Having just got back from the AIDS Walk, I have a bunch of stuff to do. I'm thinking next week's issue will be a "big issue" with stuff for what would've been tomorrow's issue, and the following issue.
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Appreciate your work, Chuck!
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From todays TDS:
Larry McMurtry & Diana Ossana Honored
This story originally was posted online in February of this year, but I only just found it.
The 25th-annual USC Libraries Awards were held, and authors Joshuah Bearman and Antonio J. Mendez and screenwriter Chris Terrio received the Scripter Award for their work on Argo.
The USC Libraries also honored Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana with the Literary Achievement Award for their body of work to date. USC President C. L. Max Nikias presented the honor.
Interesting--they didn't give them their Scripter Award for Brokeback Mountain, though.
It didn't even come in second:
The Hollywood Reporter
13 January 2006
Two films have tied for the 17th annual USC Scripter Award, which honors the year's best film adaptation of a book, novella or short story and the only award that honors both the author and screenwriter. The writers of Capote and Syriana received an equal number of votes in the Scripter selection committee balloting. A runoff vote will determine this year's winning film, with the final results to be announced Wednesday.
The Wednesday announcement proclaimed Capote the winner of that year's award.
???
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I believe the quote in the current Daily Sheet is from Harvey Milk? Sadly prophetic.
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I believe the quote in the current Daily Sheet is from Harvey Milk? Sadly prophetic.
I just saw the question and I'm really sure it was Harvey Milk. I can hear him saying it in my mind (from the soundtrack of the movie "Milk.")
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I just read the new Daily Sheet...and I've gone bright red
:o :o :o
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Answer to June 25 TDS question:
The ancient Greek lyric poet Sappho was born on the Greek island of Lesbos, from which the modern-day word "lesbian" is derived.
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One of many artist conceptions....
Image of Sappho of Lesbos, an artist's conception published in World Noted Women, 1883. Sappho lived and wrote poetry in about 600 BCE.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F0.tqn.com%2Fd%2Fwomenshistory%2F1%2F7%2FG%2FK%2Fsappho.jpg&hash=61ff25091513c4eb777598b30fa5d2c33576de39)
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Answer to June 25 TDS question:
The ancient Greek lyric poet Sappho was born on the Greek island of Lesbos, from which the modern-day word "lesbian" is derived.
Yes, Debbie,(and now Morrobay) I am sure this is the intended answer. However,(sorry Linda), the question is a bit ambiguous. Arion is also from Lesbos and just as famous in that the concept of tragedy is attributed to him.
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I only post it Gary.
Chuck is the editor of TDS.
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I only post it Gary.
Chuck is the editor of TDS.
:D :D :D
Well, I am not casting aspersions either way. And considering the context, it is not ambiguous at all. I am just sort of a "tragedy" freak. Bless both you and Chuck for keeping TDS alive.
g
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One of many artist conceptions....
Image of Sappho of Lesbos, an artist's conception published in World Noted Women, 1883. Sappho lived and wrote poetry in about 600 BCE.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F0.tqn.com%2Fd%2Fwomenshistory%2F1%2F7%2FG%2FK%2Fsappho.jpg&hash=61ff25091513c4eb777598b30fa5d2c33576de39)
She'd make a beautiful bride!
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Answer to June 25 TDS question:
The ancient Greek lyric poet Sappho was born on the Greek island of Lesbos, from which the modern-day word "lesbian" is derived.
I agree with Debbie.
That's my answer to this weeks quetion, too.
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Great issue of TDS this week!
Horrible about the fire in Upstairs Lounge.... :( :( :(
About the 'Twinkie defense' (never heard of it before): did it work? Did the killer get off the hook by it? I sure hope not!
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No pic of our UK gathering(s) in today's TDS?
(Just wondering...)
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Great issue of TDS this week!
Horrible about the fire in Upstairs Lounge.... :( :( :(
About the 'Twinkie defense' (never heard of it before): did it work? Did the killer get off the hook by it? I sure hope not!
It was all over the news at the time, and the tactic was ridiculed by the public.....
At the trial, psychiatrist Martin Blinder testified that White had been depressed at the time of the crime, and pointed to several behavioral changes indicating White's depression: he had quit his job; he shunned his wife; and although normally clean-cut, he had become slovenly in appearance. Furthermore, White had previously been a fitness fanatic and health food advocate, but had begun consuming junk food and sugar-laden soft drinks like Coca-Cola. As an incidental note, Blinder mentioned theories that elements of diet could worsen existing mood swings.
The fact that White had killed Moscone and Milk was not challenged, but – in part because of the testimony from Blinder and other psychiatrists – the defense successfully convinced the jury that White's capacity for rational thought had been diminished; the jurors found White incapable of the premeditation required for a murder conviction, and instead convicted him of voluntary manslaughter. Public protests over the verdict led to the White Night Riots.
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^^^^^^^^^^
I see. Thanks Nancy.
I don't know a lot about the case, but it seems like a failure for the legal system. :(
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No pic of our UK gathering(s) in today's TDS?
(Just wondering...)
The pictures have been posted in places that are "member only", but I'm not sure if TDS is member only or not (I think it's not) and since not everyone in the group shot is a DCF member, I didn't want to possibly make anyone uncomfortable.
If Sara can verify that they're fine with their pics possibly being public, I can include it next week.
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ok
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TDS is a public thread.
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Answer(s) to TDS question:
1. The poet's name was Sappho and she lived on the Island of Lesbos.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Just a remark to kk on her photo caption:
I love the motel scene(s). The boys look so completely in love, almost desperately, after 4 yrs. apart. :-* :-*
Kathy
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Answer(s) to TDS question:
1. The poet's name was Sappho and she lived on the Island of Lesbos.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Just a remark to kk on her photo caption:
I love the motel scene(s). The boys look so completely in love, almost desperately, after 4 yrs. apart. :-* :-*
Kathy
:-* :-* :-*
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Just a note re a caption about Heath's firework sequence in BBM:
1. I'm happy it was included in the list.
2. I don't think the m/c bums in this scene were questioning E's sexuality; I think Heath as Ennis was so mad, so angry at the bums' slop bucket mouths continuing in front of the girls and Alma, as well as their not stopping after Ennis tells them to, he just wouldn't let them get away with it.
Also very important: His pent-up thoughts & feelings for Jack inside of him made him so conflicted, he just couldn't stand to have those bums get away with anything. Ennis is so conflicted; always thinking of Jack and remembering...
kathy
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Tears in my eyes reading about Jim and John's wedding.
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Same here. I hope it changes a few hearts and minds in Ohio.
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Happy to report that the Trekcetera museum in Vulcan is up and running. We visited it the day after it opened, and it was a great experience.
Of course our only reason to visit was the BBM collection. It's a small but wonderful collection. They have Ma Twists outfit including her shoes, her ring and her watch. I've always liked the clothes she wears, so fitting!, and it was wonderful to see them for real.
They also had Jack's black hat and a pair of his boots.
The next installment had a pair of Ennis' jeans and white T-shirt in it.
And then..........The Table!!!!!!
Yes, the museum owners bought Ennis's apple pie table that was for sale on E-bay! Including a piece of the wall it's attached to and four chairs, it's all there in the museum!
We were so thrilled to see it! And we could actually sit down on Ennis' chair, at Ennis' table!
The owners were equally thrilled to see us as we were to see them and their collection. A really nice couple, and yes Fritz, they bat for your team. :)
We told them about all the Brokie trips to the movie sites that have taken place, and about our forums and how the movie has had such a profound impact on so many people. They didn't know any of this, and they were truly appreciative of it all.
They intend to expand their BBM collection when they get a chance, but even now it's so worth the visit!
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Yay!!!
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funny, i just came by to say thank you for keeping the daily sheet going and found out i am just the latest in a string of expressions of gratitude. i am such a news junkie that i rarely find something new, but every community should have its own newspaper, and i find it very comforting to know that this is here, and is read by so many of my friends and acquaintances.
it may be a time consuming job, but no one can say it is a thankless task...
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Cory Booker is so comfortable in his own skin, it's delightful to see him say that it doesn't matter whether he's gay or straight.
And the nerve of Lonegan, to say that smoking a cigar makes one more of a man than rescuing someone from a burning building. Grrr.
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funny, i just came by to say thank you for keeping the daily sheet going and found out i am just the latest in a string of expressions of gratitude. i am such a news junkie that i rarely find something new, but every community should have its own newspaper, and i find it very comforting to know that this is here, and is read by so many of my friends and acquaintances.
it may be a time consuming job, but no one can say it is a thankless task...
Thanks Jack!
I was really unsure about taking on TDS, but when I saw people were missing it, I made an effort to step in. My first issue was 4/24/12, and it's been 16 months, and I've enjoyed putting them all together.
I do have a request for the TDS readers. I see the replies here, but in general I don't get very many PMs from people regarding what they would like to see in TDS, if there is a post that they feel deserves exposure, or if they saw something on the 'net that they feel is a good story for TDS.
Please feel free to send me PMs, I'm more than happy to hear about what you want to see in TDS, and I'll do my best to make it happen, and give you credit.
;D
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Yes, Chuck, we should all keep that in mind.
I know from long-ago experience (high school newspaper, and office newsletter) that there's nothing harder about writing/editing/publishing a publication like TDS than trying to come up with good stories to write/edit/publish, especially on a regular schedule.
You've been doing a great job.
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Amen to that, Debbie! Thanks, Chuck!
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RE: Kevin Swanson: anyone want to bet on him getting caught in flagrante in a bathroom stall, etc? Doesn't it seem like so many of these virulently anti-gay men turn out to be gay? I bet he had a violently anti-gay father…
Of course the one I REALLY want to hear about getting caught with a rent boy is Fred Phelps. Preferably a three-way with two men of whatever races he professes to hate most.
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Am I the only one on here with a mad crush on James Lipton? ::)
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Of course the one I REALLY want to hear about getting caught with a rent boy is Fred Phelps. Preferably a three-way with two men of whatever races he professes to hate most.
:D :D :D
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I've got a little list myself.
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Box Office Mojo has adjusted their numbers, dropping the weekend total for "Prisoners" to $20,817,053.00 but it still surpassed the $20 million mark for the weekend, and was still #1.
Since the weekend, it continues to be the #1 movie, and it's total intake is currently $26,255,777.00.
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Am I the only one on here with a mad crush on James Lipton? ::)
:D :D
Isn't that the host of Inside the Actors Studio? I watched Jake's episode online earlier this week :)
I know from long-ago experience (high school newspaper, and office newsletter) that there's nothing harder about writing/editing/publishing a publication like TDS than trying to come up with good stories to write/edit/publish, especially on a regular schedule.
You've been doing a great job.
I agree. I haven't responded in this thread yet (I think), but I just want you to know I always read TDS!
Dejavu's right - it's one thing to start it, but to maintain it after so many years...
Same goes for the whole forum, I guess. If it wasn't for the mods, where would we be? I've been a member for nearly a year now, and although most discussions have moved on to other subjects, rather than just BBM - for newer members like me this forum is still an inspiration.
I still feel privileged to be part of it.
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I agree. I haven't responded in this thread yet (I think), but I just want you to know I always read TDS!
Dejavu's right - it's one thing to start it, but to maintain it after so many years...
Same goes for the whole forum, I guess. If it wasn't for the mods, where would we be? I've been a member for nearly a year now, and although most discussions have moved on to other subjects, rather than just BBM - for newer members like me this forum is still an inspiration.
I still feel privileged to be part of it.
BlueJean Darlin' --
This post makes it all worthwhile! I remember how important it was to me back in 2006 when I needed, NEEDED to discuss BBM in depth, and there was no place to turn but this forum.
But I might have missed BBM back then-- I really didn't have any intention of seeing it, just somehow got interested due to the Oscars. So I knew there would be lot of people coming to BBM fever in later years, and probably more will be in the future. I'm so happy the forum can still be a good place for you and other new members who need to share the love (and tears.)
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And you are a very welcome addition to the forum, Sonja! :)
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Thanks for your kudos, Sonja. It is so worth all the work knowing that those of us who are still around and folks like you appreciate what is going on here. We try very hard to make everything here welcoming to everyone.
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I love bubba's depiction of the boys and "Lonely Boy".
It is so true, so sad.
kathy
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First, Trigger_Hippie showed us some pics from various locations around London.
This cliff is a mere 130 miles or so from London!
Gorgeous series, Nick and Jess :).
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Oh, Steve Grand's arms!!!! *thud*
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This cliff is a mere 130 miles or so from London!
Oooops!
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Thank you so much for including me in the Daily sheet, Chuck.
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Any time, Jess! ;D
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They conclude their list with The Joker, from The Dark Knight, portrayed by Heath Ledger. When they go into their reasoning behind picking this character, this is what they say: Heath Ledger’s Oscar-winning performance makes Jack Nicholson’s turn in the same role nearly 20 years earlier look ridiculous. Sure, it’s a comic book story, but Ledger makes a sociopath all the more frightening because there’s no reason behind the trail of murder and destruction. As Michael Caine says during the film, “Some people just like to watch the world burn.”
Why he’s scary: “Do you want to see a magic trick?”
I honestly think maybe next to Anthony Hopkins in Silence of the Lambs, Heath's portrayal of the Joker is the scariest film villain to date.
I don't like to see them put Jack's performance down though, it wasn't the same type of character, not even the same type of movie.
Back then the Batman movies were cartoonish, so were all the villans in those movies!
Jack should actually rate up there for The Shining, he was very scary in that.
And it wasn't even that Heath was just scary, he was just "incredible". It is the only movie (performance) I can think of where I saw the movie and took my husband back the next week, I said "you have to see this performance and you have to see it on the big screen" and we went and he was stunned.
And then I remember my son (who is a big movie buff) going to see it and just raving about Heath's performance! I felt so proud! :D
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Hello TDS readers.
Just a quick message to let you know that there will not be a new TDS for this week.
I was in Boston for the weekend, and had intended on doing one today for tomorrow. While I was in Boston, I got word that my Uncle Jackie (Angelo) died on Friday night. He was in his late 80s and didn't take care of himself as well as she should've, so it wasn't a real surprise.
I came home today at 1:00, but I had to shower and run out to the wake, which was 4-8. I just got home from the wake a few minutes ago (7:20) so I'm not going to have enough time to complete a new edition. It will return next week.
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Hello TDS readers.
Just a quick message to let you know that there will not be a new TDS for this week.
I was in Boston for the weekend, and had intended on doing one today for tomorrow. While I was in Boston, I got word that my Uncle Jackie (Angelo) died on Friday night. He was in his late 80s and didn't take care of himself as well as she should've, so it wasn't a real surprise.
I came home today at 1:00, but I had to shower and run out to the wake, which was 4-8. I just got home from the wake a few minutes ago (7:20) so I'm not going to have enough time to complete a new edition. It will return next week.
Very understandable, Chuck. Sorry about your uncle.
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So sorry to hear about your uncle, Chuck.
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Sorry about the passing of your uncle, Chuck.
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There are two lawsuits in Virginia, one of which has the legal team which successfully overturned most of DOMA in the Supreme Court. But no idea how long it will take. Earl and I are running out of time.
Anyone planning to see the costume exhibit in Richmond at VMFA? Let me know and I can meet you down there!
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A follow up on a story in last week's TDS.
Couple: We tipped gay waitress, did not criticize her 'lifestyle'
Scott Stump TODAY contributor
A New Jersey waitress' claim that she was denied a tip because she is gay is being disputed by the couple she allegedly served.
Former Marine Dayna Morales, a server at Gallop Asian Bistro in Bridgewater, N.J., posted a photo on Facebook earlier this month of a receipt with the area for the tip crossed out and the words, “I’m sorry but I cannot tip because I do not agree with your lifestyle and how you live your life” written in the margin. Her story became one of the most popular stories ever on TODAY.com, and the media storm sparked $3,000 in donations from strangers.
However, the family who Morales served told WNBC that they left an $18 tip, providing their copy of the check and a credit card statement. Both receipts have the same date and time stamp, but the totals are different, according to WNBC. The couple’s check indicates the bill totaled $111.55, not the $93.55 on Morales' receipt.
The couple told WNBC the derogatory message on the receipt posted by Morales is not something they would ever write and it's not in their handwriting. Morales is sticking with her story.
“That’s not my handwriting,’’ Morales told WNBC. “I don’t know. Again, I don’t know.”
http://www.today.com/news/couple-claims-they-tipped-gay-waitress-did-not-leave-note-2D11657476
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However, this is better news:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25119158
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There are two lawsuits in Virginia, one of which has the legal team which successfully overturned most of DOMA in the Supreme Court. But no idea how long it will take. Earl and I are running out of time.
Anyone planning to see the costume exhibit in Richmond at VMFA? Let me know and I can meet you down there!
For those wondering why you may want to see this exhibit?
The Richmond VMFA is the ONLY east coast location for this exhibit. "The exhibition contains costumes that have never left private and archival collections in California, and most have never been publicly displayed or seen beyond the secure walls of studio archives. " There are costumes from the Kobal collection / Focus Features which include Brokeback Mountain. From the photos, it looks like it might be some of all of the items in the iconic 'truck' photo.
http://www.vmfa.state.va.us/exhibitions/hollywood-costume.aspx#tabs-2
http://www.timesdispatch.com/entertainment-life/attractions/museums/vmfa/hollywood-costume-exhibit-at-vmfa/collection_5e2846e4-44b1-11e3-9042-0019bb30f31a.html
V
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Do you think you might have a chance to get up there, Vincent?
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I can't believe it's not going to go to NYC.
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That is odd that VMFA should get it to the exclusion of all other places in the East.
Glad to see they give a senior discount!
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The story continues....
Restaurant suspends gay waitress accused of lying
A New Jersey restaurant says it has suspended Dayna Morales, the former Rockland waitress accused of lying about being passed up for a tip due to her sexual orientation.
Gallop Asian Bistro, the Bridgewater, N.J., restaurant where the alleged incident occurred, posted to its Facebook page Friday that Morales no longer was on its employee schedule pending an investigation into the allegations.
Last month, Morales, 22, formerly of Stony Point, posted on Facebook a restaurant receipt containing a note she claimed was written by a family she had served who said they could not tip her because she is gay and they did not approve of her lifestyle. Her post went viral, and she began collecting donations and large tips from all over the world.
The family that Morales accused later went on television with their copy of the receipt, which shows a tip and is backed up by a credit card statement.
http://www.lohud.com/article/20131203/NEWS02/312030047/Restaurant-suspends-gay-waitress-accused-lying?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage%7Cs
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Very strange story indeed.
I fear it may hurt the fight for equal rights and non-discrimination. :-\
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He went on to say that the family had gotten together on their own to discuss who they would want to play Maria, and the unanimous choice was Anne Hathaway.
I hadn't heard this before, but that would've been great if she had wanted to do it.
Never been a fan of Carrie Underwood. What people have decribed as her not having
any "acting ability" goes for her singing too, as far as I'm concerned. It always sounds
bland to me. There's nothing behind it. It's like muzak. Great singers make you feel the
songs. I always feel like Carie Underwood's a Stepford Wife kind of person.
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TDS wishes all the members of the Ultimate Brokeback Forum a Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
We'll return the first full week of January.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!
Thanks to all on the forum this past year!
Lyle (Mooska)
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Hi everyone, and Merry Christmas to all of you! :-*
Don't really know where to post this, so I might as well post it here.
A friend of mine posted this story on her Facebook page yesterday and it actually made me cry - and made me think of Jack & Ennis :'(
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/sleep_well_my_love_goldfrapp_bases_song_on_tender_letter_from_one_world_war (http://dangerousminds.net/comments/sleep_well_my_love_goldfrapp_bases_song_on_tender_letter_from_one_world_war)
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Hey guys,
Just to let you know of a small typo regarding the story on the Utah Mormon who starved himself rather than staved. ;D
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You may want to correct the date in the news box. It says "TDS - Dec 24".
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Thanks Sonia -- now the date is correct
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Yeah, I noticed. Thanks. :)
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Hmm just noticed Sherri Shepherds comments now. Not sure what to say on that, she is entitled to her opinion. She was obviously brought up in a church that had a strong anti gay agenda. I have been Catholic since I was 40, so 14 years and I have "never" once heard homosexuality discussed during mass.
I am not exactly sure where in the bible it condemns it, no more than everything else is condemned, according to the bible we are all going to hell.
Guess we will see her there! :o
Also I believe she has one child, a son, her words could come back to bite her in the butt one day!
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Spouting something in the Bible that you believe is not a crime even if it is not politically correct. Sherri Shepherd IS entitled to her opinion. It's not as if she's suggesting gays be rounded up and burned at the stake. Same for the Duck Dynasty guy. The Bible lists a lot of things that people agree... and DISagree... with. Baptism varies from doctrine to doctrine and many churches teach THEIR way is the only way a person can get to heaven and everyone else is going to hell. I'm sure Sherri Shepherd chooses to disagree about slavery which, in the Bible, is acceptable or at least not disallowed. A lot of people believe abortion is a crime against God. Conscientious objectors think war is against God's plan. And then there's the Catholic objection to divorce, although the Bible allows divorce in certain circumstances... but Catholics are not big on the Bible anyway. Let's not get started on non-Christain beliefs....
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I had a relatively long reply to post, but my computer shut off and I lost it all.
Fate? (Turns out this is relatively long also!)
But the gist of what I was writing is that I wasn't sure the intent of your
post above? Are you advocating the right of people to spout opinions, any opinions,
without being challeneged by others, especially if those spouting them have a public
sphere of influence?
There seems to be this notion nowadays, especially in journalism, that for any fact out there,
there is an opposite view (opinion) that needs to be aired on the same topic. If there's a gay
issue on the news, the Rev. Lou Sheldon needs to be aired giving his opinion, for example.
The fact is that some things are just facts and don't need an alternate viewpoint. People may be
entitled to their opinions, but all opinions are not equal. The biggest example of this is the debate
about climate change/global warming. You'll hear any number of people, especially politicians, debate
whether or not this is occuring. As this article I just read points out, those who find this to be a real
problem have published evidence that this is so. The ones who don't agree have opinions only.
From the article:
One of the most fascinating aspects of climate change denial is how deniers essentially never publish in legitimate journals, but instead rely on talk shows, grossly error-laden op-eds, and hugely out-of-date claims that were never right to start with. In 2012, National Science Board member James Lawrence Powell investigated peer-reviewed literature published about climate change and found that out of 13,950 articles, 13,926 supported the reality of global warming. Despite a lot of sound and fury from the denial machine, deniers have not really been able to come up with a coherent argument against a consensus. The same is true for a somewhat different study that showed a 97 percent consensus among climate scientists supporting both the reality of global warming and the fact that human emissions are behind it.
Powell recently finished another such investigation, this time looking at peer-reviewed articles published between November 2012 and December 2013. Out of 2,258 articles (with 9,136 authors), how many do you think explicitly rejected human-driven global warming? Go on, guess! One. Yes, one. Huh? Here’s the thing: If you listen to Fox News, or right-wing radio, or read the denier blogs, you’d have to think climate scientists were complete idiots to miss how fake global warming is. Yet despite this incredibly obvious hoax, no one ever publishes evidence exposing it. Mind you, scientists are a contrary lot. If there were solid evidence that global warming didn’t exist, or that CO2 emissions weren’t the culprit, there would be papers in the journals about it. Lots of them.
http://www.slate.com/they_don_t_publish_actual_papers.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/01/14/climate_change_another_study_shows_they_don_t_publish_actual_papers.html)
And that's the risk of giving opinions equal weight. You get what is essentially a discussion of a topic with equal weight given to both sides,
when one side is heavily opinionated without facts to back it up and the other side has to argue inanity. So, people like Sherri Shepherd might
have the right to her opinion, but it seems we also have the right to nip inane opinions in the bud by speaking out against them before they
grow into beliefs without merit. Especially if said "spouters" have a public sphere of influence.
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Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. It's called freedom of speech and it works because everyone has the same right to express an opinion whether I agree with it or not.
I don't think anyone denies things are warmer than they have been for quite some time. What the so-called deniers are saying is so what? I]/b] believe it is a normal part of the earth's cycle and getting excited about it is useless. In a couple hundred years, everyone will be out of sorts because the climate is getting colder.
And Lyle, unless you have some kind of in with God that the rest of us do not, you don't know if gays... or adulturers or gluttons or murderers or people who work on the Lord's day or eat meat on Fridays or keep the cream right next to the shellfish or etc... are going to heaven or hell or even if there IS a heaven or hell. And THAT's a fact.
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Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm saying. It's called freedom of speech and it works because everyone has the same right to express an opinion whether I agree with it or not.
Opinions are not facts and so people can be called out on them, too, is what I'm saying.
I don't think anyone denies things are warmer than they have been for quite some time. What the so-called deniers are saying is so what? I believe it is a normal part of the earth's cycle and getting excited about it is useless. In a couple hundred years, everyone will be out of sorts because the climate is getting colder.
If human emissions are behind the reality of global warming, then it is NOT a normal part of the earth's cycle. So what? So humans can try to fix it:
The same is true for a somewhat different study that showed a 97 percent consensus among climate scientists supporting both the reality of global warming and the fact that human emissions are behind it.
And Lyle, unless you have some kind of in with God that the rest of us do not, you don't know if gays... or adulturers or gluttons or murderers or people who work on the Lord's day or eat meat on Fridays or keep the cream right next to the shellfish or etc... are going to heaven or hell or even if there IS a heaven or hell. And THAT's a fact.
I didn't think I purported to have the inside scoop on religious facts, but what you wrote is precisely why I, and like minded folks,
can speak up when those like Sherri Shepherd and the duck people spout harmful rhetoric and not just let it go as harmless opinion.
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Humans are not CAUSING climate change. They are speeding it up, but this has happened before and it was long before humans polluted the air. Why is THAT so hard to understand?
It's like people who don't think I can believe in God AND in evolution. Who are they to say God had to create the universe according to THEIR plan?
And you are certainly entitled to you interpretation of the Bible... Koran...Torah...whatever, but you have no authority to say YOURS is the correct and only interpretation. You have the right to speak up. As do I.
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Sherri Shepherd is entitled to her opinion and if her opinion is controversial, it may very well be posted in The Daily Sheet and people who disagree with her may very well comment on it and disagree with her.
The posts here are where you, the poster, express your opinion. Agree? Disagree? say so if you're moved. Everyone already agrees she has a right to her opinion.
Thx
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OK probably there is a thread for the global warming stuff somewhere-- but I looked at the Daily Sheet and didn't see anything about global warming.
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Church Membership Revoked for Being Gay
The ignorance displayed in these situations seems almost mind boggling on occasion.
he is still welcome to attend as long as he does not cause division or speak contrary to scripture.
I don't know about this church's policies, but any time I know of where a membership is revoked,
you're not allowed to partake of whatever benefits the membership entails. Or maybe it's only an
opinion and not a fact so the young man should let it go? And telling others about it? How hateful!
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Actresses Saoirse Ronan and Kate Mara (House of Cards, Brokeback Mountain) are testing for the role of Susan Richards, The Invisible Girl.
When you read this line above you just have to chuckle. As in:
***
Kate: "What should I wear to the audition?"
***
Casting Director: "Girls auditioning for the Invisible Girl line up over here. I said over here.""
Girls: "We are lined up."
***
Director: Saoirse for the Invisible Girl? I just can't see it."
***
:)
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From todays TDS:
"Ireen Wüst, a female Dutch speed skater who identifies as bisexual, has won a gold medal in Sochi.
Wüst took to the medal podium, and held up three finges, each painted to match a color of the Dutch flag. Had she painted gold, it would've worked as well. This is her third gold medal, she also won in 2006 (Turin) and 2010 (Vancouver).
After her win many sites proclaimed an "out lesbian" won the gold medal, but the truth is that Wüst identifies as bisexual. She is one of only 7 LGBT athletes who are competing in the Games in Sochi amid the political scene set by Russia with an anti-gay propaganda law."
As a fellow Dutchie I'm proud of her! The whole of The Netherlands is proud! ;D
Go Ireen! :-*
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^^^^
" Go girl " :)
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Yay!!!!
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As a follow up to the article in this week's TDS.
Dave Cullen wrote an article in The Daily Beast, about Michael Sam, the Mizzou football player, coming out as gay.
Michael Sam Is Not a ‘Distraction’
The only detrimental thing this Missouri defenseman could’ve done to his football career was keep his mouth shut. With the truth, brave Michael Sam can now see, run, tackle and win with clear eyes and a full heart. See? Can’t lose.
The NFL was thrust into the 20th century Sunday. Its old guard pushed back Monday, and I felt a powerful jolt of deja vu: Didn't the Pentagon just run this experiment? And abandon it after 17 counter-productive years?
Michael Sam, the bravest football player in America, handed the NFL a gift when he came out Sunday night, four months before the draft. Most of America cheered and the NFL outwardly heaped on the praise with a glowing public statement. But back in the executive suites, the old guard running the league anonymously grumbled. Sports Illustrated quoted eight anonymous executives and coaches issuing one tired dig after another. "In the coming decade or two, it's going to be acceptable, but at this point in time it's still a man's-man game," one said. "To call somebody a [gay slur] is still so commonplace. It'd chemically imbalance an NFL locker room and meeting room."
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/02/12/michael-sam-is-not-a-distraction.html
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RE: the article about 'Transgender opponents fail to turn out vote'.
On a sad note, here in a small town in the Bay Area, 15 yo transgender female who identifies as male was physically and sexually assaulted by 3 males, age 16-17, in the male restroom of their school.
I will update as more information is released.
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Yay Matt! Geaux Irish!
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Yeah, and Sandy Rios can want the Blue Fairy to do cartwheels in Charleston harbor. But it ain't gonna happen.
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Chuck, regarding your question in the March 25 Daily Sheet, I don't think there's any reason to keep the newsletter exclusively about gay issues. That's a good place to bring attention to them, but if something else interesting comes up that might be of general interest to the people on the forum, I think it could have a small story, too.
Meanwhile, congratulations on your upcoming second anniversary as editor. You are doing a great job.
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Yeah! Geaux Chuck!
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It's nice to see the forum back up. (If I understand the technical stuff correctly, it began as a rare hardware failure at our hosting company, which then led to problems reloading our database once they restarted everything.)
We're very grateful to our tech volunteers John and Neil for working their butts off the past few days. I was cc'd on an endless slew of emails back and forth with the tech people at the hosting company. I won't pretend that I understood most of those exchanges, but I can see how much effort it takes.
It actually takes all sorts of effort on John's part to keep the forum up and running on a regular basis, and he doesn't get thanked nearly enough, so please pop him a note when you get a chance. Thanks.
Also, Linda's FB page is a good place to go for information if/when the forum goes down again in the future. Obviously we can't communicate with you here when that happens. It's here:
https://www.facebook.com/lindahandrews?fref=ts&ref=br_tf
Dave
Additional Note from Linda:
John is going to do some more error checking later tonight, so he will be putting the forum in Maintenance Mode and you won't have access to it, but he will have it back up after he does his checks.
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Thanks for the explanation, Dave.
Glad we are up and running!!
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Thank you Dave
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Thank you Dave
I just tried to "Like" this too. Haha. (I really had the urge to hit the Like button, after just commenting on that elsewhere.)
Maybe we need to get one of those. :)
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I hear they cost a lot more, even though they're basically just the lazy man's "reply" button.
Thanks, Dave, Linda, John and Neil for ALL your hard work.
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I agree with Doodler!
THANKS D. - L. - J. & N. !
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A relief to see the familiar page appearing this morning! Thanks everyone. (I'd Like a LIKE too :))
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call me lazy, i would like a like button as well. i often appreciate what someone has said, but not enough to type up a whole reply. >:D
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I know I'm lazy. :D
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Good to see everyone back!
Many thanks to John, Neil and Linda for all their hard work.
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fun-pinata-party-ideas.com%2Fimage-files%2Fmany-thanks.jpg&hash=7dc42a28840a3506670ed4b664ec814707123a71)
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There are many members who do and have over the rapidly approaching 10 years since it's inception, committed to keeping "The Ultimate Brokeback Forum" community alive and not just on life support. There were those who worked tirelessly on the Variety Ad campaign, those who donated DVDs in libraries, those who moderate in the many threads - maintaining civility. Far too many to name. Far too many I know only from our community. Far fewer met at events I attended (or wish I had attended....) Far too many no longer with us by choice or life's demands and struggles. A few only with us in spirit now.
I am guilty as charged of not saying "THANK YOU" to the souls making, and have made, our connections possible. Would our lives be the same without our wanderings within this community? Would I have met many of you at the LA 5 year Beyond Brokeback celebration or the Chicago Beyond Brokeback reading and dinner? Would we feel these strong connections? Would we cringe as we consider alternatives?
This was but a wake up call to cherish "The Ultimate Brokeback Forum"; the many volunteers past and current and for us not to take any of it or them for granted. I am sorry.
John, Linda, Neil, Dave, Chuck, all the mods, all the silent partners, all the understating partners, all the lurkers who stand amongst the crowd but are here none-the-less - THANK YOU for the blood, sweat and tears you have selflessly given supporting what ultimately will recognized as another pivotal point in our history. Non-members may wonder, "...all this?" for a discussion, swirled with emotions, around a "gay cowboy movie?" Thing is, your work maintaining "The Ultimate Brokeback Forum" earns you great Karma and my sincere respect.
To all of you - THANK YOU SO MUCH! V.
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Yaaaaaaaay! The Forum's back! :) :) :)
And I agree with all the above posts: thank you ever so much! :-*
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Good to see everyone back!
Many thanks to John, Neil and Linda for all their hard work.
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^^^^What Chuck said!
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Thank you all!
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It's wonderful to have the forum back again!
Thank you so much to John, Linda and Neil for your hard work.
And to everybody else who participate one way or the other in keeping the forum going.
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Nice to see what an impact it has on everyone. :)
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You had no idea what you started that time, Dave! :D
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With regard to Chuck's request for input on TDS input: I think there are enough general news sources out there. This site was started in appreciation for a movie about two gay men, and the social climate that doomed their love, so it seems only appropriate that the focus of its newsletter should be on stories and issues of special interest to gays and the gay-friendly community, plus news about the ones we love for starring in that little movie ever so long ago.
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I echo everyone's comments above giving thanks to those who work so hard to keep the forum up and running!!
Like Dave and others, I keep looking for the "Like" button on posts...guess a whole bunch of these might suffice....
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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With regard to Chuck's request for input on TDS input: I think there are enough general news sources out there. This site was started in appreciation for a movie about two gay men, and the social climate that doomed their love, so it seems only appropriate that the focus of its newsletter should be on stories and issues of special interest to gays and the gay-friendly community, plus news about the ones we love for starring in that little movie ever so long ago.
Ditto... and maybe a weekly sheet, short of "hot breaking news..." is better fit now with the mass hoopla receded while the controversy remains. V
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Thanks, Dave, Linda, John and Neil for ALL your hard work.
Yes, thanks to all of you.
We don't often stop to think about how much work it takes on your part to keep the forum running, but times like this really make us aware of how much we appreciate it and appreciate your efforts.
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With regard to Chuck's request for input on TDS input: I think there are enough general news sources out there. This site was started in appreciation for a movie about two gay men, and the social climate that doomed their love, so it seems only appropriate that the focus of its newsletter should be on stories and issues of special interest to gays and the gay-friendly community, plus news about the ones we love for starring in that little movie ever so long ago.
I agree for the most part. What I think I was getting at wasn't "general news" about the world, but "general news" about the forum and the forum threads and people. For example, I appreciate that some of my travel photos have been shown in TDS. Forum members come here to talk about a wide variety of topics, not all gay-related, and I'm just suggesting that we leave the door open to referring to some of those discussions in TDS if they ever seem particularly interesting. For example, if forum members had a general off-beat question (about time zones? the weather? those are just quick examples), and TDS found out the answer from someone else on the forum. Or if a forum member had some noteworthy accomplishment. We wouldn't have to make a point of looking for these things, but I think the editorial policy shouldn't exclude them, in case something like this should arise. A newsletter is generally more interesting with a little variety.
That said, I think the focus has been pretty good just where it is.
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Our obsessive guide to the heartbreaking yet oddly universal story of two gay cowboys in love
Universal, anyone could and did identify!
I agree with you I think it is fine how it is, but I don't expect everything to be related to gay issues and it hasn't been!
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Thanks everyone for the feedback.
When I started TDS two years ago, I wanted it to be a feature here that would be of interest to many. I never wanted it to be "Chuck's views for everyone". I'm glad you all feel it is being done properly.
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Really appreciate your work, Chuck!
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LIKE!!
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You had no idea what you started that time, Dave! :D
i sure didn't. :)
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Thanks everyone for the feedback.
When I started TDS two years ago, I wanted it to be a feature here that would be of interest to many. I never wanted it to be "Chuck's views for everyone". I'm glad you all feel it is being done properly.
thanks, chuck.
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I'm glad you all feel it is being done properly.
I think you do a great job on TDS, Chuck.
(And today's is especially interesting!)
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I agree, you do a great job on TDS, Chuck.
Today's edition is great fun! ;D
Such creativity!! ;D ;D
Kudos, Chuckie!
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Thanks everyone for the feedback.
When I started TDS two years ago, I wanted it to be a feature here that would be of interest to many. I never wanted it to be "Chuck's views for everyone". I'm glad you all feel it is being done properly.
Well, I feel it had become "Chuck's Views" which is one reason I stopped coming to the forum.
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April fool, Chuck!
(Two can play at this game)
Love ya!
:-*
EDM
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:D
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lmao @ Mark!!!!
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Oh, please tell me where I can vote to help give "Crash" the recognition it so truly deserves! I mean, come on, Brokeback was good, but "Crash" was about an issue that's even more pressing--race. (It was, wasn't it? If anyone has seen it, please tell me if I'm wrong.)
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I reckon Crash has had just about all the recognition it deserves, right? Or was that another April 1st thing? ::)
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I reckon Crash has had just about all the recognition it deserves, right? Or was that another April 1st thing? ::)
I reckon you didn't click the link for the story. ;D
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Oh, please tell me where I can vote to help give "Crash" the recognition it so truly deserves! I mean, come on, Brokeback was good, but "Crash" was about an issue that's even more pressing--race. (It was, wasn't it? If anyone has seen it, please tell me if I'm wrong.)
Where has the thread gone wrong? :'( :'( :'(
;) :D
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I clicked on the "Are Jake & Michelle an item?" link just now... :D
... and I feel a bit stupid ;) ;D
:-*
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Well I figured the Crash thing was a joke, but honestly Lyle may have had a small stroke! :D But Michelle and Jake, hmmmm that may not be as far fetched as you think! ;)
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What did everyone think of the fictional stories in TDS this week?
I really liked how Chuck did this!!
I really enjoyed it Chuck!! ;) :D
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I really liked how Chuck did this!!
I did, too, because they were real enough to believe at first glance--or more glances!
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I really liked how Chuck did this!!
I did, too, because they were real enough to believe at first glance--or more glances!
I'm glad everyone is enjoying it. Lyle, I went for the 'realness' factor of the stories. I tried to think of what would be believable enough to make people click the links.
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They were all very clever thought out, Chuck!
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Oh, please tell me where I can vote to help give "Crash" the recognition it so truly deserves! I mean, come on, Brokeback was good, but "Crash" was about an issue that's even more pressing--race. (It was, wasn't it? If anyone has seen it, please tell me if I'm wrong.)
HA!! What a true and exact April Fool's Day joke...
Kathy :)
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HA!! What a true and exact April Fool's Day joke...
Kathy :)
I immediately thought of you when I read that joke, Kathy. I know how much you like 'Crash' - ahem ;) ;)
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i'm up on tech enough to know what i like, if not to always find the best ways to say so: and to know what i miss when it's not functioning. i don't want to fall into taking it for granted. i so much appreciate the formation of this forum, and all the places it has led me and all my friends here: thank you for all the work from sung heroes and unsung heroes and also persistent lurkers and participants...it takes a community to make a community, but the work put in by the people who keep it up and running? thanks especially for that.
kj
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LOL, yes, Chuck's stories were really well done... I was fooled on a few of them and realized only after the first suspicious one that they were all fake! :D :D
Not sure if any of you saw this:
http://www.thebacklot.com/brokeback-mountain-tv-series-miley-cyrus-cw-greg-berlanti/04/2014/?xrs=synd_twitter_backlot
;D
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LOL Uli! Haven't seen that one before!
Sounds like the plot to your average BBM teenage fan fic.... ::) ;D
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I immediately thought of you when I read that joke, Kathy. I know how much you like 'Crash' - ahem ;) ;)
Oh no!! Never in the whole wide world...
Kathy ;) :o
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Not sure if any of you saw this:
http://www.thebacklot.com/brokeback-mountain-tv-series-miley-cyrus-cw-greg-berlanti/04/2014/?xrs=synd_twitter_backlot
Where / how did you find that? Excellent! :D
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The only one of the " 35 Things.................about Heath" I didn't know was the one where it was Matilda's name on the name badge on the nurses uniform he wore in "The Dark Knight" !! I hope she finds it amusing when she see's the film when she is older. ! :)
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LOL Uli! Haven't seen that one before!
Sounds like the plot to your average BBM teenage fan fic.... ::) ;D
I thought so, too... Was wondering if they had been looking at Brokebackslash for inspiration... Sienna maybe? :D
Where / how did you find that? Excellent! :D
On Twitter - I am following this Backlot thing - and there it was... :D
Great, that not only in a place like this people (=Chuck) think of Brokeback related April fools, but also in the rest of the world, isn't it?
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Regarding Canada's first Stupid Law School: I'm not sure how to interpret those rules. The way I read them, they prohibit not only gay sex, but all extramarital sex, also between men and women.
But I'm not used to reading that kind of formal English, so I may be wrong.
Can someone help me here, please?
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Hiya Sonja.
This first rule says: 'sexual intimacy that violates the sacredness of marriage between a man and a woman', and yes, you could say that pre-marital sex between a male/female couple could fall under that.
the next part says: 'Further, according to the Bible, sexual intimacy is reserved for marriage between one man and one woman, and within that marriage bond it is God’s intention that it be enjoyed as a means for marital intimacy and procreation.' This rule is stating that sex is reserved for male/female couples during marriage, to purposes of intimacy and to create children. This rule targets gay students, as the way it's worded, it means the gay students shouldn't have sex, as they can't reproduce.
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Thanks Chuck, that clears it up.
So, in short, no pre-marital sex for anyone; and no sex at all for gays, even married ones.
Well, isn't that nice...
Welcome to the 19th century ::) ::) ::)
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They are discriminating against anyone who is having sex outside of marriage. My question is - if you knew their rules - why would anyone want to go there, unless of course you agreed with them?
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Sounds like Bill O'Reilly has a case of sour grapes.
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He added: 'Now there are threats and demonization. And that unfortunately, has put gay marriage
over the top. That is the technique that turned the tide - intimidation and harm. That's what won it.'
Despite his contradictory reasoning, O'Reilly's harangue reminds me of the line from Harry Truman,
when someone shouted "Give 'em Hell, Harry," And he replied, "I just tell them the truth and they think it's hell."
Gay people and their supporters are not demonizing people, they're just standing up for themselves
and disagreeing with those with opposite views by pointing them out. If those people feel demonized,
then that is their problem. And tell that to all the gay people who's jobs are on the line or terminated
because of legalities in their particular states. Like th South Carolina police chief who was terminated.
Bill O'Reilly makes a living out of demonizing people with opposite viewpoints.
Isn't that what his patriot or pinhead segment is all about?
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Bill O'Reilly makes a living out of demonizing people with opposite viewpoints.
Isn't that what his patriot or pinhead segment is all about?
Well said. It also applies to the entire Fox "news" channel... Cheers, V.
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Heath4Ever:
Right. Nobody could ever be so hot as Heath and Jake as E&J.
Nobody.
Kathy
xoxoxo
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Well said. It also applies to the entire Fox "news" channel... Cheers, V.
You are sooo right.
Kathy >:(
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Sorry about the lateness of the posting of this week's TDS. Chuck had it ready last night and told me about it, but I fell asleep really early and forgot about. But it is up now. :P
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No problem, Linda!
Just glad to have it there!
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...and nobody said that a Jamaican reggae singer had to have a brain in her body to sing. This proves it.
I moved this post here from the TDS thread, as that thread is only for the posting if TDS editions, and the comments for the editions are to be posted here.
Thanks.
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Such a beautiful, handsome pic of Heath in this week's TDS. Just had to tell you.
Sigh...
Kathy :-* :'(
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Hello TDS readers!
I was away this past weekend, my Aunt Vi passed away, Sunday was the wake, and Monday the funeral. As a result, I had no time to work on TDS. It will return next week.
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Not to worry, Chuck.
We'll patiently wait.
And again: thanks for all you hard work to entertain us! :-*
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Welcome back Chuck!
Great TDS, thanks for mentioning Counting for Thunder (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/350445268/help-counting-for-thunder-cross-the-finish-line), fun project!
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Is Jack Gyllenhaal a new member of the Gyllenhaal clan ?? !! ;D
See todays Daily Sheet...." Gyllenhaals on Broadway"
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Is Jack Gyllenhaal a new member of the Gyllenhaal clan ?? !! ;D
See todays Daily Sheet...." Gyllenhaals on Broadway"
Suely, both Jake and Maggie will be on Broadway this year. :)
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Welcome back Chuck!
Great TDS, thanks for mentioning Counting for Thunder (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/350445268/help-counting-for-thunder-cross-the-finish-line), fun project!
Ellen, feel free to post up more information here!
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Suely, both Jake and Maggie will be on Broadway this year. :)
I know Jake and Maggie will be on Broadway this year......but who is this Jack Gyllenhaal you reported on ? ;)
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In response to the questions in TDS: I would guess California has the most gay couples, followed by New York and maybe Oregon? And Mississippi and Alaska dead last.
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In response to the questions in TDS: I would guess California has the most gay couples, followed by New York and maybe Oregon? And Mississippi and Alaska dead last.
I wondered the same thing, here is what I found, doesn't seem to be cut and dry though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States
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Ellen, feel free to post up more information here!
This is not Ellen, but it is Sparky!
Thank you so much, Chuck, for putting our project up here.
If it were not for the DC Brokeback Forum, I never would have met welles (Phillip) or tellyouwhat (Ellen). And this movie would simply never have been made.
For you old timers, when we had our historic BBQ at Linda's in San Antonio, a good sized Los Angeles contingent showed up. I was part of that, as was Phillip, Sydney, Sunspot, JoeWLA and a number of others. We had also become close friends with our lovely pal Jan who used to be in charge of TDS.
This little group we called the LA Posse met every week for about 4 years and became very dear friends. The members have scattered due to work over the years but we still meet periodically. Linda, Fritz, Michael, and a few other DCF friends have luckily been in LA more than once in December for Forum events and I have been lucky enough to have them as guests at my annual holiday party.
It isn't apparent from the Kickstarter video or our summary, but this story does have a major gay subplot. It isn't Brokeback - in fact the play it is based on was written before the movie came out. In working on our editing, etc, we haven't focused on the marketing or PR. We haven't gotten there yet! This isn't a movie that is going to have a poster with 2 naked guys on it. It is a family drama that includes a lead character that falls in love with another man. It isn't the crux of the story - it is a matter of fact part of his life. As it is in many of our lives. So it is in no way a movie that would have an explicitly sexual campaign. Frankly, it is a classier project than that. This is a movie about life. All of our lives. And the struggles and triumphs we all encounter in becoming ourselves and discovering who we are and who we were supposed to be all along. If you didn't see that gay aspect in our video, I am telling you now that yes, it relates to us on many BBM levels. Including the dude on dude part.
Way more than that, however, the story of the genesis of this project is indicative of the power of all us - people who came to this place on the web. It would not be here without BBM, or this place where the creative heads of this movie intersected. Our movie has been fueled by miracles. Not only logistical and human miracles, but others that none of us have been fully able to comprehend or explain. I could not begin to go into the sequence of events that enabled us to get this far. This post, already too long by half, would go on for another 7500 words. Simply stated, the creation of this film will go down as the most inexplicable and charmed event of my career and life. We aren't done yet, though. We do still need some help. If you can simply watch our video and like it on Facebook, or share it with friends, that will help us. If you can support us financially, that will help us. I know not everyone is in a position to do that, but simply tossing this movie further into the web is invaluable to us as well. Spreading the word is so important. Any support you can give us is appreciated and will reverberate in ways you cannot imagine.
Our movie wouldn't have happened without this place. So I am just trying to let everyone here know how powerful your voices are, and the unexpected and transformative changes that can take place when human beings come together. I have seen it. I am living it. I think everyone here knows exactly what I am talking about.
Thank you for reading this. And thank you for anything you may be able to do to help us. I will keep you all posted on the progress of our project. We will get to the finish line. I believe everyone new to this place, and everyone who was here from the beginning of this forum will soon be able to say that they are proud that Counting For Thunder has some roots in this place.
Sincerely yours,
Sparky
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Hello Sparky, it's good to see you back!
I'm glad you came and gave more information, as TDS gives me limited space to share. Please do keep us updated on the progress of Counting For Thunder, and feel free to share any information!!
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Counting For Thunder
Thanks for posting this... Good Luck w/ the KS.. Count me in. V
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Hey everyone!
I remember those days (hell, those years) when not a day went by that I didn't at least peek in here once a day. But for the past year and a half of writing, directing, producing and performing in this film, I've not had the time to peek in anywhere. But after Ellen (tellyouwhat) told me she'd posted about our film here I knew I had to stick my head in and say that I am indeed still alive, and happy to see that you all (well, most of you, oy!) are as well. We're all on the Counting For Thunder team so touched by the support we've received on Kickstarter from many of you in just the past couple of days. The insanity of jumping on a plane several years ago with a bunch of people I'd never met, flying to Texas to Linda's to attend a party with a swarm of folks I'd never laid eyes on, I will never forget. This place had, and still has for many of us, a surreal sort of power that's hard to shake.
Best to you all.
Phillip (Welles)
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Hello Sparky, it's good to see you back!
I'm glad you came and gave more information, as TDS gives me limited space to share. Please do keep us updated on the progress of Counting For Thunder, and feel free to share any information!!
Thanks Chuck!
The boys backed me into a corner and made me do a bit of a video update for our site. I wasn't able to be in the other, as DWTS kept me away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvAULwVo904&feature=youtu.be
Thanks to all of you here for your support!
We are making strides toward our goal and we appreciate the help.
Spk
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Great video, Sparky.
Thanks for all the updates, and please keep them coming!
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I was also reminded today that DCF member Desperadum, someone I also met for the first time at Linda's Texas BBQ, introduced me to Paul, another producer on our film, at the diner gathering in LA after the Academy screening of BBM a few years later. So technically that's four of us producers joined from that hot August weekend.
That was some party, Linda!
Phillip (Welles)
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I aim to please, Phillip!!!
Congratulations on your dream coming true!!
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Congratulations on passing your goal!!! I just looked at the kickstarter page, the total (so far) is $20,450.00, and you still have to the end of today.
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Everybody on Counting for Thunder team is so excited!
Thanks Chuck for being part of this, and thanks to you wonderful forum friends for helping us!
We'll keep you updated on post-production progress.
Can I just say -- squeeeeeee!
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I saw this myself today and am so very glad the goal was met!!
I am so excited for everyone!!
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Just wanted to add my thanks for everyone who supported us, it was indeed a very good week! And grateful to Chuckie and Linda for giving us space here! Stay tuned...
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I aim to please, Phillip!!!
Congratulations on your dream coming true!!
you notice, linda, that no one who was there has forgotten the heat! it was almost the uninvited guest.
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Hiya TDS readers!
I will be away for the weekend, so TDS is off for the week. It will return the following week.
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Thanks as always for your great work on TDS, Chuck.
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What Sara said!
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Same here! Enjoy, Chuck! Say hi to a certain Vårensdotter!
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Love this week's edition, Chuck.
One thing that caught my eye - a bookstore called 'Giovanni's Room'?
I've just read 'Giovanni's Room' by James Baldwin (1956). If there's one book where Annie Proulx could've gotten her inspiration from to write BBM, it's that one.
Currently reading 'Another Country', also by James Baldwin. Really impressed so far. His writing is like poetry sometimes.
Also, do you mind if I share the Heath link on Planet? The article might get more views there.
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I reread "Another Country" recently - it still impressed deeply.
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Also, do you mind if I share the Heath link on Planet? The article might get more views there.
You're absolutely welcome to share the link on Planet, but make sure you state that the discussions are going to take place on "Let's Get Serious About Heath", since that is where TDS guides them.
THanks!
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I was happy to see this item: "GOP Super PAC Plans Gay-Rights Push" and the USA Today story it linked to.
Oddly enough, I took my first ever trip to the Hamptons this weekend, and one of the guys in our house/car was a republican operative who did most of the legwork (from the PAC's side) of making that story happen. And it went live on the drive to dinner Sunday night, at his boss's house, who is leading communication for the PAC.
Both are straight Republicans, both devoted to helping us. So great to see, and to talk to them at length (I know the woman), and know how completely sincere they are. They think the whole anti-gay situation in their party is ridiculous.
But it's changing. (Few R leaders are still homophobic. Most acting that way are doing it as a performance for the worst parts of their base.) That's changing, too.
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The fact that they know better makes their pandering even more heinous.
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Hello TDS readers!
Due to the technical issues with the forum this weekend, I wasn't able to work on a new TDS for tomorrow, and I won't have time to complete one tonight.
TDS will be on a 'break' this week, but will return next week.
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40% of China Textbooks Classify Gayness as Mental Illness
Robert Mugabe: I Prefer Aid From China
I'm guessing the anti-gay industry in the US will now allow China to share "newest best friend" status with Russia. Cold Warriors from five or six decades ago -- on both sides -- would be slack-jawed.
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But it's changing. (Few R leaders are still homophobic. Most acting that way are doing it as a performance for the worst parts of their base.) That's changing, too.
Apparently none of them listened to Mom when she told them to be careful of the company they keep. In this case, it says something about them and not anything even remotely flattering.
Of course, we probably shouldn't rule out blackmail. ;)
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:D :D :D
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The straight guys who got married, I wonder if the promo company will pay for their divorce, or whether they'll have to pay out of their own pocket. If either decides to get straight married, the government will look upon them as bigamists if they don't.
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Maybe the Lord can spring them with $150K.
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Maybe the Lord can spring them with $150K.
I wouldn't be surprised if people donated money to them.
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True. The martyrs' circuit can be quite profitable.
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Sadly these 2 clowns live here in Dunedin. I just checked. An uncontested divorce in NZ will cost $211.60. I do not think that will be much of a problem as they have both won return tickets to England plus to the games and I guess accommodation in London. However I am more annoyed at the radio station who ran the competition
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Yeah, don't blame you at all, Brian.
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By the way, just for the sake of completeness, the picture on the article Different States, Different Rights is of Erwynn and Will Umali-Behrens, who live in New Jersey near McGuire AFB. I know them from Facebook.
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If Mr Frothy considers his rants silence, I'd hate to think of what he thinks of as noise.
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Good point, Fritz!! Sometimes I think they talk just to hear themselves, or put themselves back in the limelight. The more out in left field the better as far as they are concerned.
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Perhaps his rants are both, silence AND noise.
He perpetuates another falsity in his statement that those of his ilk like to do. He says,
"I really believe in this subject matter at hand with the gay community that a Judeo-Christian worldview cannot survive with a worldview that is as rabidly secular as this movement is.”
The most common definition of secular is: denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have
no religious or spiritual basis, not spiritual; of or relating to the physical world and not the spiritual
world. His statement implies that all religions have the same attitude that he states about this
issue and that gay people are not spiritual. Both of those things are inaccurate, of course. He also
insults young people saying that that, in effect, they've been brainwashed into thinking differently
because "the other side of the argument" isn't heard.
Which is ludicrous. That argument's been heard for how long? (His statement also shows that
strange right-wing mentality that thinks "if they only hear our side of things they'd agree." That
"our messaging" just isn't effective, Not "what they're saying is ineffective, just how they are
messaging it." Sheeesh.)
_________________
And then there's the segment about Douglas Mackinnon wanting states to secede and become
the country of Reagan? And he thinks this is not amusing? Imagine what those pundits would say
if Liberals wanted to secede and become the state of Obama? "They should separate from the US
due to the ‘fiscal insanity and moral decay’ that is evident in America." 1%-er's always think about
fiscal inanity in ways most others do not. However, sometimes it takes them a lot longer to see that
what they think of as "moral decay" is actually enlightenment.
I don't know what you think, but I think even Reagan would be appalled at a lot of these people.
_________________
Whenever people like these two speak I take what they say and insert "black" instead of "gay"
into their sentences and you see how ludicrous their sentiments really are.
SANTORUM: "I really believe in this subject matter at hand with the black community that a
Judeo-Christian worldview cannot survive with a worldview that is as rabidly secular as this
movement is.”
MACKINNON: "If you happen to refuse to bake a cake for a black couple because it goes against
your religious beliefs, you can be driven out of business. If you're a football commentator and
you happen to just say innocently that maybe I wouldn't have drafted a black football player
because I wouldn't want to deal with the distraction, many people on the left will try to drive
you out of your job as well.’
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Reagan would have been appalled, Goldwater would have been livid. He did not appreciate the takeover of the GOP by the Religious Right at all.
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A follow up on the article: Dallas Passengers Stop Gay Bashing
SUSPECT IN DRUNKEN ANTI-GAY ASSAULT IN DALLAS WILL NOT FACE HATE CRIMES CHARGES, JAIL TIME
A drunken traveler at Dallas Fort-Worth Airport who assaulted a man he believed was gay while shouting anti-gay epithets will not face jail time and will not face hate crimes charges, Lone Star Q reports. The suspect is identified as McCleish Christmas Benham:
Benham is charged with public intoxication and simple assault, both class-C misdemeanors each punishable by a maximum $500 fine, but no jail time.
However, if prosecutors choose to utilize Texas’ hate crimes law, they could enhance the assault charge to a class-B misdemeanor. Class-B misdemeanors are punishable by 180 days in jail and a $2,000 fine per offense.
READ MORE HERE:
http://www.towleroad.com/2014/10/suspect-in-drunken-anti-gay-assault-in-dallas-will-not-face-hate-crimes-charges-jail-time-read.html
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That slap on the wrist will just encourage him.
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Reagan would have been appalled, Goldwater would have been livid. He did not appreciate the takeover of the GOP by the Religious Right at all.
IMO Goldwater would have been livid. Reagan, it would have tickled his ego. He was an actor; the Presidency was the role of a lifetime for him.
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That slap on the wrist will just encourage him.
Absolutely. Fritz!!
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Reagan would have been appalled, Goldwater would have been livid. He did not appreciate the takeover of the GOP by the Religious Right at all.
President Reagan would have been appalled. He never appreciated takeover of the GOP by those fanatics or any kind of fanatics.
Kathy
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"The cowboy couple lives in North Queensland, Au and their names are Dan and Miki"
Great story but they do not live in North Queensland. Apparently Dan grew uo in North Quensland and I gather they met there but they now live in Northern NSW near Lismore, a long way south. A great area and far more accepting. It was the hippy and pot growing region when I was young. I may be wrong but I doubt they would find life so easy up in North Queensland.
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A couple of typos in the latest TDS:
Rosa is a teacher is a teacher - to safe Rosa's job.
Aside form Chandler and Cardelini
Thanks to all for the input over the years. :)
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thanks for catching those, Andy. I made the corrections.
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Reagan would have been appalled, Goldwater would have been livid. He did not appreciate the takeover of the GOP by the Religious Right at all.
Goldwater might have been livid; Reagan wouldn't have cared. The Presidency was just his ultimate role as an actor; he was the Washington DC version of Ronald McDonald.
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Well, I think he was a very good actor and 1000% better as President over the present ... uh ... occupant who has brought this country so far down in every way possible that it's nothing but a joke, just like "Britain" is a joke. He's so damned stupid that as long as his and cheney/bush's unnecessary wars continue, the military/industrial complex reigns completely supreme now.
But that's been so since Bush 1 (and of course his unnecessary war) anyway. And the famous quote from lyin' Lyndon way back in '63 (mark the year) "you want a war; I'll give you a war". He sure did.
Talk about Ronald MacDonald ...
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Thanks a lot, Kathy. You can say that about your own country if you want to, as can I about mine, but I wouldn't dream of insulting someone else's country on this multi-national forum.
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I reckon the whole world is something of a joke - but maybe I can get away with being general, Kathy. ???
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I just read the "Real Life Ennis & Jack?" story. What a sweet life.
:)
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I just read the "Real Life Ennis & Jack?" story. What a sweet life.
:)
Yes, good to read that.
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Well, I think he was a very good actor and 1000% better as President over the present ... uh ... occupant who has brought this country so far down in every way possible that it's nothing but a joke
I'm sorry you think that President Obama's support for gay people and marriage equality is considered
a part of "bringing this country down" and is a joke. For one.
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I'm sorry you think that President Obama's support for gay people and marriage equality is considered
a part of "bringing this country down" and is a joke. For one.
Good Lyle.
As Cally says, it is best not to criticise countries other than one's own and I have 2 governments to complain about, the one of my birth and citizenship and the one where I have chosen to live (and vote).
However from what I read, I admire Obama immensely. It seems he has done his best against continual opposition and is a million times better than his predecessor trying to clean up the mess he was left in the middle east. To most of us the health situation in the USA is deplorable and Obama was trying to improve that. I do not need any health insurance in Australia nor New Zealand.
I was uncomfortable, keeping quiet, when travelling in the States recently when people criticised Obama.
To say Reagan was better is laughable from the gay perspective. See the Huffington post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-staley/ebola-vs-aids-obama-vs-reagan_b_6008652.html
I well remember that time and was grateful that we had a more proactive government on the AIDS crisis. It is possible that I am still alive due to that.
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I do, of course, agree with your statements above!
I personally don't like when individuals or groups are completely lopsided
in their praises or demonization of the totality of any, in this case, President
and their years in office. I've often said, "Watch the PBS documentaries about
individual Presidents and you'll find the ones you hated aren't totally hateful
and the ones you liked shift around on their pedestals more than you might
wish."
I cannot say the same for the last couple terms of our Congress, though. The
opposition has been completely lopsided in their demonization of our current
President and any policies of the democrats.
For example, in the eight years President Eisenhower was President, there were
only TWO fillibusters in the U.S. Senate about bills that the opposition was opposed
to. So far, under President Obama, the Republicans have offered up 475.
2 / 475
And while our electorate was electing a lot more Republicans to office this week,
in ballot propositions across the country they were voting for Progressive policies
and the like that all of the people they've elected oppose! Things like minimum
wage hikes (4 out of the 5 that passed this were in deeply red conservative states
and Repulicans oppose this idea fiercely), and medical marijuana or legalizing it, less
or no prison time for drug misdemeanors, even gun control measures passed in a
few places. And yet people voted for those who will oppose these very things.
It's very frustrating.
For example: Kentucky has a Health Care setup called Kynect which is in existence
because of the AFA, Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare. Surveys in Kentucky show
majority support for Kynect and what it does for it's population in Kentucky, and it's
all happening because of the Affordable Care Act. But ask those same people if they
support Obamacare and the same state is overwhelmingly against it.
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It is hard to say from here in the UK, even though we did spend a month in the USA earlier in the year, but it does seem to me, as a great admirer of Obama, that he has tried to do all sorts of things, and some of them he has succeeded with, but mostly he has been prevented from changing things by the stranglehold that has been put on him by the Republicans.
Therefore, the people who have been preventing change have now been elected by those disillusioned by Obama, on complete false pretences.
But hey, I'm in the UK!
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^^^ I find that a very accurate statement, Jess. It's been the plan of the GOP all along. They didn't expect him to be reelected in 2012, but that didn't divert them from their long-range plan.
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It looks as if some people are having problems getting on the forum and others are not. Chuck has not been able to get on the Forum, so he has not been able to work on TDS for this week. It will either be late getting posted or he will wait till next week.
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Thanks Auntie!
Yes, a new TDS will be posted next week.
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^^^ I find that a very accurate statement, Jess. It's been the plan of the GOP all along. They didn't expect him to be reelected in 2012, but that didn't divert them from their long-range plan.
Agree.
And, yes, I was one having trouble getting on the forum all day yesterday.
I kept getting this:
Fatal error: Call to undefined function: str_split() in /home/davecull/public_html/forum/index.php(1) : regexp code(1) : eval()'d code(1) : regexp code on line 1
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Agree.
And, yes, I was one having trouble getting on the forum all day yesterday.
I kept getting this:
Fatal error: Call to undefined function: str_split() in /home/davecull/public_html/forum/index.php(1) : regexp code(1) : eval()'d code(1) : regexp code on line 1
It was only affecting people who are on IE, Lyle. It is fixed now, obviously.
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Doing my proof reading again: is there always meant to be an 's' in thanksgiving or do they get dropped sometimes? :)
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There's always an "s", I don't recall ever seeing it dropped.
There was once a hyphen between the two words, it would be considered old-fashioned now, though the square named after the celebration in Dallas retains it. Beautiful stained glass in the chapel.
http://www.thanksgiving.org/
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In which case, this below is not correct and is likely a slip of the finger... :)
TDS staff wishes you all a healthy and happy Thankgiving!
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Thanks for the opportunity to appear in the Daily Sheet! I hope readers here enjoy the article on the old west. What I found certainly surprised me!
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Thanks proofer Andy!! I fixed it!!
And everyone read proofer correctly!! :D
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Technically "American Thanksgiving", we had ours long ago! ;)
Transgender Woman's Family Buries Her As a Man After Sudden Death
That is just an awful story, I mean how could they do something like that?? Coronation Street did a story line about a transgender person, her name was Hayley and she use to be Harold, she was sick and dying and her worst fear was that she would someone resort back to Harold and die as Harold, so she took her own life so she could die as Hayley.
It struck me then, watching that, we just have no idea what these people go through and how difficult life is for them!
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It was unbelievably cruel. And to violate her dead body by cutting her hair....
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Also just reading that story about the Duggars! They have what 150, 000 signatures, the show has 4.4 million viewers!
What exactly did the Mother say and in what context, are we sure??
http://www.wnd.com/2014/11/is-michelle-duggar-guilty-of-lgbtq-fear-mongering/
Here is another spin on it, on what she said and what she may have meant!
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Bubba, it's not just the mother and what she said.
Their son Josh is now a member of the Family Research Council. They're an anti-gay organization, and Josh is leading an anti marriage equality rally in Arkansas.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/josh-duggar-lead-rally-against-marriage-equality-arkansas
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You might want to be careful quoting World Net Daily, Bubba. They don't exactly have a great track record. Here's what the Southern Poverty Law Center (one of the civil rights organizations that tracks hate groups) says about them:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/fall/world-nuts-daily
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Just a few samples:
"WorldNetDaily founder and editor Joseph Farah writes today that President Obama 'appears to be doing everything in his power to spread the Ebola virus' as part of a nefarious plan to grow the size of government.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/wnd-editor-obama-has-kind-thinking-led-gas-chambers
"Tomorrow, people in much of the world will have the opportunity to witness a rare 'total lunar eclipse,' which could turn the moon a deep shade of red. But, be warned: such a 'blood moon' isn’t just an astronomical curiosity. According to a story that WorldNetDaily has been pushing for months, it’s also potentially a message from God warning of the impending Last Days."
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tomorrow-s-lunar-eclipse-warning-about-end-times-probably
"In a WorldNetDaily column today, Joseph Farah came up with a creative argument for exempting businesses that deny services to gay couples from nondiscrimination laws. Opposing same-sex marriage, Farah argues, is itself a 'sexual orientation' and therefore a law prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation is actually discriminatory against the sexual orientation of marriage equality opponents."
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/joseph-farah-being-against-same-sex-marriage-sexual-orientation
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Well thanks for the education guys (seriously I mean that) did a little more digging and found this:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3KYqUyIcAABlFL.jpg)
https://twitter.com/memeographs/status/536659158997958656/photo/1
Maybe this is a better way to go, because I doubt being the cash cow that The Duggars show is that it will get taken off the air.
I guess it doesn't come as any real surprise, considering where they live and how crazy religious they are. But they seem like such compassionate people, they really do!
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Well thanks for the education guys (seriously I mean that) did a little more digging and found this:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3KYqUyIcAABlFL.jpg)
https://twitter.com/memeographs/status/536659158997958656/photo/1
Maybe this is a better way to go, because I doubt being the cash cow that The Duggars show is that it will get taken off the air.
I guess it doesn't come as any real surprise, considering where they live and how crazy religious they are. But they seem like such compassionate people, they really do!
That's the problem with "reality" TV.......they either skew their shows so that people look like raging bitches (Real Housewives) or Sugary-sweet good. (The Duggars, the Roloffs).
Most people tend to have a pretty good mix of "sane" and "insane" or "good" and "bad" in them, but the shows focus on the side that best suits their programing.
For what it's worth, I do agree that their show will never be cancelled over this, and I do like the idea of making a donation to an LGBTI charity. It seems more productive.
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I totally agree, although the Roloffs, never seemed perfect (they seemed crazy at times) :D
http://www.christianpost.com/news/petition-calling-for-duggars-to-remain-on-tv-passes-200000-signatories-tlc-refuses-comment-on-issue-130406/
Looks like TLC is refusing to comment on the whole matter.
Well all I can say is with all those children and now Grandchildren, what three....and one or two on the way... maybe they will have a gay child in their family one day, wonder how they will react??
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Well all I can say is with all those children and now Grandchildren, what three....and one or two on the way... maybe they will have a gay child in their family one day, wonder how they will react??
You are not the only one to raise that question.
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Thanks for a really interesting issue. Some very positive stories: the fact that the appalling 'Ass Hunters' game even came into existence is horrifying, but at least the online campaign against it helped to get it banned.
The 7 facts about HIV/AIDS were chilling, especially the one about rates of infection in USA still being at nearly 40% of the peak figures in the 80s.
Some facts about Europe (from the Terrence Higgins Trust):
The UK had more new diagnoses than any other country in Western Europe or the EU/EAA in 2012. However the rate of increase in the UK has remained relatively stable compared to countries like Spain and Italy which have had significant increases since 2004. British HIV testing and surveillance is thought to be particularly well promoted and monitored which may also add to the higher number and rate here in the UK.
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I loved this particularly in today's TDS:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl543%2Fjakeheathfan%2FHappy_Chrismahanukwanzakah.jpg&hash=ada05bf751296b69aa7d0703d2c375ef6127f9dd)
Also the report about the Polish mayor.
Thanks!
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I loved this particularly in today's TDS:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl543%2Fjakeheathfan%2FHappy_Chrismahanukwanzakah.jpg&hash=ada05bf751296b69aa7d0703d2c375ef6127f9dd)
Also the report about the Polish mayor.
Thanks!
i loved it too. all of it. but did we leave out the solstice in the graphics and word above? or am i just not seeing it? maybe the night's too long and dark in the northern hemisphere these days?
salubrious solstice to all,
kj
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The item re Jim Marjoram the NZ Author was lead item on our National news last night.
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/gay-one-reporter-labelled-filthy-auckland-pastor-video-6196085
Robertson was interviewed. He refused to be interviewed by one of the station's leading reporters who is openly gay. He stated that as a Christian he would not kill anyone (how nice of him) but believed the Government should. Although claiming to be Baptist, the National Baptist Organisation say his church is not affiliated and they are appalled at his statement. I was pleased to see a priest from my own Anglican church also condemning him. It turns out his "church" meets in his house and may consist of just his family.
Jim Marjoram said it will probably help advertise his book. Actually I had not heard of it but may buy it now. ;D
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Westover Baptist in Topeka KS is basically the same, a dysfunctional family disguised as a church.
And that one pastored by Steve Anderson in Tempe AZ (Faithful Word Baptist) seems to be headed in that direction.
Any group of people can call themselves a Baptist Church, if they so desire.
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Kudos to the parents for that birth announcement!!
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I really hope we get to see some pictures of the mural Vincent Fantauzzo has painted of Heath as "The Joker" .....at The Backlot Studios"....in Perth. If it's as good as the 3 panel painting he did of Heath.....it must be something special.
I have had a search on line to see if there are any pictures of it yet. Sad to say I have found none.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2F9af944119465af51194011e9ab47241b%2Ftumblr_inline_nexfd61APm1rdzrgr.jpg&hash=1248b8aa49f2444d19816eff5b72f70ce2c6d1a4)
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Heath Ledger honoured in studio mural
Stephen Bevis Arts Editor November 12, 2014, 5:23 am
Vincent Fantauzzo, dubbed the people's painter for his record-breaking success in the Archibald People's Choice Award, has completed a mural of the late Heath Ledger to mark the opening of a Perth film facility.
Fantauzzo, a friend of the late Oscar-winning star and his family, said he hoped the wall painting of Ledger in his defining role as The Joker would inspire local emerging filmmakers to reach for the heights.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/entertainment/a/25489801/heath-ledger-honoured-in-studio-mural/ (https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/entertainment/a/25489801/heath-ledger-honoured-in-studio-mural/)
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2F9af944119465af51194011e9ab47241b%2Ftumblr_inline_nexfd61APm1rdzrgr.jpg&hash=1248b8aa49f2444d19816eff5b72f70ce2c6d1a4)
Thanks for this Morrobay. Doesn't it look great ??
Brilliant that Heath is still remembered so lovingly...and is so highly thought of...that he could inspire
young talent to reach for the stars.
Sometimes I think that he is just a distant memory ...by people who
once said they would never forget....except for his close friends and family.
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That is marvellous, what an inspiring tribute.
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If it's as good as the 3 panel painting he did of Heath...
I searched for it, as I had never heard of it before :">
Wow. That guy's talented!
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1347.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fp706%2Fwuppie1968%2FHeath%2FHeathpainting_zps95703051.jpg&hash=27f0669391f3fdec646f158bbe5d9630d74d5bbc)
It's good to know Heath is still remembered.
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Love the "New Year, New Me." And who better to embody this sentiment than Tony Stark? I can hear him saying it.
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The Mattachine Society which created the ONE publication was founded by communists.
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And at a time when it was quite dangerous to be a Communist, or even to know one.
Some details about the FBI's attempts to shut the magazine down, and the collaboration of the Post Office:
"ONE’s debut coincided with a major push to rid the U.S. civil service of homosexuals. President Dwight D. Eisenhower would sign Executive Order 10450 in April of that year, which barred gays and lesbians from federal employment with its “sexual perversion” clause. This followed a highly-publicized purge of more than 400 gays and lesbians from the civil service some three years earlier. . . . So when ONE caught the eye of the FBI, they immediately launched an investigation to try to shut it down. They went so far as to write to the employers of ONE’s editors and writers (they all depended on their day jobs for income), saying that their employees were 'deviants' and 'security risks.' Fortunately, no one lost their jobs, the FBI decided it wasn’t worth their time, and ONE continued publishing.
"The job of shutting down ONE then fell to the U.S. Post Office. Since its inception, Los Angeles postal authorities vetted each issue before deciding whether it was legal to ship under the Post Office’s stringent anti-obscenity standards. And since homosexuality was illegal in most states, ONE had the added problem of possibly being guilty of promoting criminal activity. The Post Office finally acted in August 1953, holding up that month’s issue for three weeks while deciding if it violated federal laws. (Ironically, the cover story for that issue was on 'homosexual marriage,' an issue that is still contentious more than fifty years later.) Finally, officials in Washington decided the magazine didn’t violate federal laws and ordered the LA Post Office to release it for shipment."
That was about five years before the Supreme Court case that Mother Jones mentions.
rest of the story at http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/01/13/1273
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The Mattachine Society which created the ONE publication was founded by communists.
And let's be thankful they did.
While communism has been proven to not work (largely due to human nature) , it is not the bogeyman you seem to think. Pure communism is seen in the early Christian church and there were problems even then. Capitalism has many many problems too.
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The Mattachine Society which created the ONE publication was founded by communists.
Indeed it was! That's not entirely surprising since homosexuality was decriminalized in Russia after the Russian revolution:
http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/19929/Russia%E2%80%99s+sexual+revolution+after+1917
It is actually the second time that a revolution brought about change in laws regarding sexuality. The French revolution lead to the Napoleonic Code with decriminalized homosexuality in France, the first country in Europe to do that:
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/napoleonic_code.html
Thanks for reminding me, Milo!
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Indeed it was! That's not entirely surprising since homosexuality was decriminalized in Russia after the Russian revolution:
http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/19929/Russia%E2%80%99s+sexual+revolution+after+1917
It is actually the second time that a revolution brought about change in laws regarding sexuality. The French revolution lead to the Napoleonic Code with decriminalized homosexuality in France, the first country in Europe to do that:
http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/napoleonic_code.html
Thanks for reminding me, Milo!
While all of that is true, the Communist Party here in the US did not allow gays to be members, and Harry Hay (Mattachine founder) went and asked them to expel him.
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl543%2Fjakeheathfan%2Fdavidsonacad.jpg&hash=c3fb44931607c4f0a40dc8be40e0accf27a11f97)
I clicked on this article, hoping to read a little more. I don't normally read the comments section (I mean almost never) but I glanced down and almost every person was asking the same thing "why in the world would they even want to send their children to this school?
I mean they would probably fill their heads with who knows what, confuse them and maybe turn them against their own family.
Beautiful family by the way!!
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While all of that is true, the Communist Party here in the US did not allow gays to be members, and Harry Hay (Mattachine founder) went and asked them to expel him.
Yes indeed. That was during the 50s and both anti-communist and anti-homosexual feelings were the spirit of the day. Harry asked to be expelled because he thought his activity with Mattachine would reflect poorly on the party. They didn't expel him, however. The declared him a “a life-long friend of the people.”
http://www.workers.org/2005/us/lavender-red-40/
The interaction between communism and homosexuality in Russia is interesting as well. After Stalin re-established penalties for homosexuality they existed in the Soviet Union till the fall of communism. The were removed in 1993 and have gradually been reintroduced under the nationalist and Orthodox influenced policies of Putin:
http://ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/orthodox-church-s-role-russia-s-anti-gay-laws
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1123.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl543%2Fjakeheathfan%2Fdavidsonacad.jpg&hash=c3fb44931607c4f0a40dc8be40e0accf27a11f97)
I clicked on this article, hoping to read a little more. I don't normally read the comments section (I mean almost never) but I glanced down and almost every person was asking the same thing "why in the world would they even want to send their children to this school?
I mean they would probably fill their heads with who knows what, confuse them and maybe turn them against their own family.
Beautiful family by the way!!
I just assumed it was because the dads have a strong faith, and wanted their children to experience the same.
Another, more practical reason might be that the public schools in the area aren't very good. I remember back in the 80s many parents were sending their children to Catholic schools to escape the public school system in Philadelphia--which was, and still is downright dangerous. Plus Catholic school tuition was lower than most of the other private schools in the city.
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Yes a strong faith and want their children to experience the same... but based on that rejection letter, I doubt that would ever be provided at that school.
My children attended Catholic school, from Junior Kindergarden (in the 80's) to Grade 12, I never considered sending them to public school.
If we had been same sex Parents then, would they have been accepted, I am not sure to tell you the truth. I would want to say yes, I live in Ontario by the way.
My daughter in law teaches Private school and I know there are many many same sex Parents and the tution is not that expensive. I think I would go that route if I were these parent and leave the religious upbringing to them. JMO
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" Apropos of nothing", I did quite the double-take when I saw "The Doodler Murders" in that upper-right-hand corner box this week. ::)
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Me too! ;D
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" Apropos of nothing", I did quite the double-take when I saw "The Doodler Murders" in that upper-right-hand corner box this week. ::)
Me too! ;D
Yep! I went, "Hunh?!?!?" :D
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About Bruce Jenner, I don't know what any of you think of all this, but I have
to say--does anyone remember The Hollywood Kids? They were a small group of
guys that were sort of TMZ or Perez Hilton types of their time, before the internet
and it was the late 80's, maybe into the early 90's. They would appear on many chat
shows in the afternoons and basically do what TMZ or Perez Hilton do now, only on a
much smaller scale because there was not the media infusion like there is now.
Well, even back then they were doing stories about Bruce Jenner. The "What's up with
him?" type of stories and "Is he wanting to be a woman," etc. They used to frequent
the place I worked at and talked about that on occasion. When it was fresh in my
memory one time I attended a show at the Pantages and Bruce Jenner was in the
audience and I remember thinking they were right about that, he is looking like a
woman. And that was like twenty-five years ago! Why it's taken him so long, I do
not know.
The first time I came to California I attended a taping of the Tonight Show and he was
a guest. This was one year after he won his decathlon medal at the Montreal Olympics.
In 1985 I met him at a Video Software Dealers convention in Washington, D.C. where he
was promoting an exercise video. Even by then, on hindsight, he was a much different looking
person than he had been a decade earlier, but it wasn't anything you could put your finger on.
For what it's worth.
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I don't remember "the Hollywood Kids". Talk about Bruce Jenner transitioning has been around that long, huh?
I will admit that I was reluctant to put the story there, because everything I've seen has been 'a source' close to the family. Whenever I hear about an unnamed source, I'm wary.
Apparently there are reports that his mother is confirming it now.
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Jenner: I really, really, really want to believe that Jenner is showing us his truth. But I am more than skeptical ONLY because we're talking about the Kardashians here, and Mama K is a brilliant PR person. She built an entire TV empire on a video of her daughter screwing a black man.
Pew research: I've always known that my POV on same-sex marriage was shared with other sexual minorities. Its nice to have some numbers on it.
Huckabee: As a rather active Republican, I can tell you that nobody in my area is taking him seriously. Besides, SCOTUS is probably going to settle the same-sex marriage issue in the spring, so it will not be an issue in the 2016 presidential campaign at all.
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Jenner: I really, really, really want to believe that Jenner is showing us his truth. But I am more than skeptical ONLY because we're talking about the Kardashians here, and Mama K is a brilliant PR person. She built an entire TV empire on a video of her daughter screwing a black man.
Yep, you gotta give her credit for that--and I mean that, seriously.
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But I doubt she foresaw that accident.
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Thanks for the article about Alabama. Here's an article that has maps in it giving the breakdown of what counties are doing in the state:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/alabama-judge-stakes-out-defiant-stance-against-same-sex-marriages/2015/02/09/a1be2de4-b06f-11e4-854b-a38d13486ba1_story.html
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Amos Lassen reviews the opera:
"No matter how striking the music is, it sometimes recalls late Schoenberg, sometimes serial Stravinsky, but it rarely transcends the text enough to enhance the drama rather than just adding rather terse punctuation and commentary to it. The tenebrous opening certainly signals the tragedy that is to come, but when it does, with Jack’s death almost two hours later, there’s nothing to deliver the gut wrench needed; Ennis’s final monologue merely hints at the expressive world the music might have explored."
http://reviewsbyamoslassen.com/?p=34568 (http://reviewsbyamoslassen.com/?p=34568)
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Yes, I'd go along with that review - there was only the odd moment where the music touched me. I did like the ominous opening though.
I still haven't heard anything about the Aachen production of the opers and how it compared with the Madrid one.
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Hiya Everyone!!!
Got caught up in some personal stuff this weekend (nothing major) but lost track of time, and I didn't get time to take care of TDS.
It will return next week!!
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Thanks, Chuck! Appreciate it!
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No worries, Chuck!
We'll patiently wait.
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Thanks, Chuck! Appreciate it!
We do!
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^^^
Ditto.
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I still haven't heard anything about the Aachen production of the opers and how it compared with the Madrid one.
I've looked into travelling to Aachen, but ultimately decided not to go. I had already watched the Madrid opera online over a year ago and it left me with mixed emotions, I must say. I'm not an opera person at all - so to sit through an opera I had already watched and didn't particularly like all that much... I didn't really feel like going.
I have been keeping an eye on German reports, but there doesn't seem to be anything.
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Auntie asked me to say "hello" to everyone, her internet is down, so she can't get here.
Regarding tomorrow's TDS, it is ready to go, we're going wait and see if Auntie gets access later, and can post it. If not, I'll post it tomorrow morning when I wake up.
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I had to Google GOP. :)
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Guys, the picture you posted to go with the Michelle Williams story in this weeks' DS is the wrong one ;D
That's a pic I posted in the MW thread to show readers the resemblance between Michelle and British singer Kim Wilde - and that's the Kim Wilde picture you posted! :D
I think it's rather funny, actually ;D And it shows I was right: the resemblance between them is striking! ;)
:-*
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I was just about to say, ummmmmmmm that's not Michelle! :D There were some beautiful pictures of Michelle in the Elle article that I posted.
That lady does look a bit like her, well more than a bit, lot older than Michelle though!
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That lady does look a bit like her, well more than a bit, lot older than Michelle though!
Kim Wilde is now 54, so she's 20 years older than Michelle. That photo is from the late 80s. I was a huge fan of Kim back then! :)
Maybe it's possible to replace the pic with one of Michelle's pictures from the Elle article?
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lmao! I can't believe I did that! That's what happens when you try to multi-task.
The good thing about an online sheet is I can edit after it's been published. :D :D Where as a paper would have to print a retraction.
I've corrected the image, and have slapped my hand with a wet noodle. As a fan of 80s music, and the 2002 duet of "Anyplace Anywhere Anytime" with Nena, I can't believe I didn't recognize her.
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"Veteran" Republican politicians. Meaning none in office, at least none in primarily Republican states. They know which side their bread is buttered on, or they're beyond pandering for votes.
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As a fan of 80s music, and the 2002 duet of "Anyplace Anywhere Anytime" with Nena, I can't believe I didn't recognize her.
Do Americans actually know who Nena is? I'm very impressed - didn't know you knew her! :)
We have a connection in being 80s music fans, Chuck! :-*
Thanks!
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Do Americans actually know who Nena is? I'm very impressed - didn't know you knew her! :)
We have a connection in being 80s music fans, Chuck! :-*
Thanks!
I'm sure most American's don't know who Nena is. Those who love 80s music do. In 1983/84, "99 Luftballons" was a huge hit here, getting to #2 on our Hot 100 singles chart. Although the group did release other songs, "99 Luftballons" was the only one to hit our chart.
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^^^^^^
You sure know your facts! Respect! *applauds*
:)
*hums '99 Luftballons'*
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Love the cartoon with driving the snakes!
And Schock has resigned his seat in Congress.
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Aaron Schock resigns after new questions about mileage expenses
Illinois Rep. Aaron Schock resigned Tuesday, less than 12 hours after POLITICO raised questions about tens of thousands of dollars in mileage reimbursements he received for his personal vehicle.
Schock billed the federal government and his campaign for logging roughly 170,000 miles on his personal car from January 2010 through July 2014. But when he sold that Chevrolet Tahoe in July 2014, it had roughly 80,000 miles on the odometer, according to public records obtained by POLITICO under Illinois open records laws. The documents, in other words, indicate he was reimbursed for 90,000 miles more than his car was driven.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/aaron-schock-resigns-116153.html#ixzz3Ug5eQVCJ
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I wonder if his
boyfriend photographer will still remain on his payroll.
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My thoughts exactly, Fritz!! ::) 8)
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I'm a little confused about the prescription drug article. I thought Heath simply made a mistake and mixed his meds to get to sleep. Was he actually abusing the meds?
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When you are found with that many prescription drugs in your system, you are abusing those drugs. Here is an article from that time..
Heath Ledger's death on Jan. 22 was due to an accidental mixture of prescription drugs, New York City's Chief Medical Examiner has concluded.
"Mr. Heath Ledger died as the result of acute intoxication by the combined effects of Oxycodone, Hydrocodone, Diazepam, Temazepam, Alprazolam, and Doxylamine," said an announcement released Wednesday morning by office spokeswoman Ellen Borakove.
"We have concluded that the manner of death is accident, resulting from the abuse of prescription medications," the two-paragraph statement said in its entirety.
Oxycodone is a painkiller, Hydrocodone is also known as Vicodin, Diazepam is commonly called Valium, Temazepam treats anxiety or sleeplessness, Alprazolam is known as Xanax, and Doxylamine is a sedating antihistamine often used as a sleep aid.
Dr. Michael Hunter, a prominent forensic pathologist not involved in the Ledger matter, tells PEOPLE that the combination of the powerful drugs most likely caused "poly-drug intoxication" which led to respiratory arrest. "His breathing probably got slower and slower until it stopped all together," he said.
Hunter also said it is highly unlikely a doctor would have allowed Ledger to take all the different types of drugs in his system (though another doctor, Vatsal Thakkar, a psychiatrist at NYU Medical Center, tells PEOPLE that it could be "sloppy prescribing"). Either way, "This is a dangerous mixture of drugs," said Hunter. "We are seeing more and more people dying of poly-drug intoxication from prescription drugs and it usually a combination of the narcotic-type drugs seen here."
Hunter said it's important to note that the Medical Examiner officially ruled the death an accident, which means they must have ruled out suicide. He also said they officially determined his death was caused by the "abuse" of prescription drugs, which is telling.
"When they use the term abuse it tells us that he used drugs to obtain an intoxicant effect and not for a therapeutic reason. They must have determined through their investigation that the drugs were not for therapeutic use."
The actor, 28, was found dead in his Manhattan apartment on Jan. 22. Authorities said at the time that they did not suspect foul play but that medication was found near the body. (Six medications, including anti-anxiety medications and sleeping pills, were found near the body.)
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20176284,00.html
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It is hard to say from here in the UK, even though we did spend a month in the USA earlier in the year, but it does seem to me, as a great admirer of Obama, that he has tried to do all sorts of things, and some of them he has succeeded with, but mostly he has been prevented from changing things by the stranglehold that has been put on him by the Republicans.
Therefore, the people who have been preventing change have now been elected by those disillusioned by Obama, on complete false pretences.
But hey, I'm in the UK!
John Boner - deliberately misspelled - stated quite publicly right after the president was elected the first time that Republicans would never co-operate with this president. After years of stonewalling Mr. Obama they now claim he's causing all the one-sided politics in Washngton, the lying bastards.
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:) :) :)
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Cruz really doesn't have much of a chance at getting the GOP nomination. But watching the Birther thing is amusing.
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Cruz really doesn't have much of a chance at getting the GOP nomination. But watching the Birther thing is amusing.
It is funny to watch them praise their own guy for something which they condemn in the other.
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StoryCorps is on the news program Morning Edition on NPR every Friday, I listen to it then all the time. Great show!
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What about all the other RFRAs that have been passed by various states and the Federal government? I never heard anyone bitching about them. What makes Indiana so special?
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The last straw?
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What about all the other RFRAs that have been passed by various states and the Federal government? I never heard anyone bitching about them. What makes Indiana so special?
Please Read:
LA Times
3 factors that make Indiana's religion law different from other states'
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0331-chemerinsky-indiana-religion-law-20150331-story.html
The Atlantic
What Makes Indiana's Religious-Freedom Law Different?
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/what-makes-indianas-religious-freedom-law-different/388997/
ThinkProgress
The Big Lie The Media Tells About Indiana’s New ‘Religious Freedom’ Law
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/30/3640374/big-lie-media-tells-indianas-new-religious-freedom-law/
The Washington Post
Answering five questions about Indiana’s new discrimination law
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/03/30/answering-five-questions-about-indianas-new-discrimination-law/
I linked non-homosexual specific publications for your perusal.
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Please Read:
LA Times
3 factors that make Indiana's religion law different from other states'
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0331-chemerinsky-indiana-religion-law-20150331-story.html
The Atlantic
What Makes Indiana's Religious-Freedom Law Different?
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/what-makes-indianas-religious-freedom-law-different/388997/
ThinkProgress
The Big Lie The Media Tells About Indiana’s New ‘Religious Freedom’ Law
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/30/3640374/big-lie-media-tells-indianas-new-religious-freedom-law/
The Washington Post
Answering five questions about Indiana’s new discrimination law
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2015/03/30/answering-five-questions-about-indianas-new-discrimination-law/
I linked non-homosexual specific publications for your perusal.
Nevermind. If I have to read 4 articles to figure it out, its not worth it.
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Reading only one of those would suffice, but for your convenience, here it is in a nutshell:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2015%2F03%2Freligiousfreedom-read-638x478.png&hash=44d4c1dc735853d42f58286a6beade1033dbfbf8)
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http://thefederalist.com/2015/03/30/your-questions-on-indianas-religious-freedom-bill-answered/
Easy read here!
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Nevermind. If I have to read 4 articles to figure it out, its not worth it.
Well, it must not be a very important issue for you.
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Well, it must not be a very important issue for you.
Actually, it is an important issue for me. The most important part of this, IMO is the idea that a business can have religious beliefs. To me that could have a huge effect on how business is conducted, which in turn has fiscal and economic implications.
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Actually, it is an important issue for me. The most important part of this, IMO is the idea that a business can have religious beliefs. To me that could have a huge effect on how business is conducted, which in turn has fiscal and economic implications.
Thanks for your input on this.
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Hiya Daily Sheet readers!
This weekend was a busy one for me, on the run on Saturday, and Easter with the family on Sunday. End result, TDS is not ready.
It will return next week!
I appreciate that you all are so relaxed regarding me 'publishing' TDS, sometimes time just is short.
Like I said, we'll be back next week!!!
:-*
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Appreciate all the effort you put into it, Chuck! Thanks!
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Glad to see Anne make the Daily! I feel like I am keeping her thread going alone, no one responds. I think the Wrecking Ball video was the last one I posted, I thought it was excellent.
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Another neat story about proms is the following:
http://instinctmagazine.com/post/gay-west-virginia-high-school-athletes-go-prom-couple
I'm somewhat familiar with both of these high schools, because the son of a coworker has played on the basketball team against Mussleman, and his father showed some vids of the game. And the mother of my friend from Frederick used to live in Hedgesville.
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The prom date couple from TDS were on ELLEN yesterday and after sharing their story
she presented them each with a check for $10,000 to help with their college tuitions.
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Yay! Love that link about the history of marriage equality. Amazingly concise in such a short time.
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Hello everyone.
Busy holiday weekend here, and as a result, no TDS for this week! Sorry!!! It will return next week!
Hope everyone had a great weekend!
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Thanks as always, Chuck!
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What Sara said!
No worries Chuck, we'll just wait until you're ready.
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What Sara said!
No worries Chuck, we'll just wait until you're ready.
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What Sara said!
No worries Chuck, we'll just wait until you're ready.
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What Sara said!
No worries Chuck, we'll just wait until you're ready.
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Re terrified_irishman_fears_divine_anti_sodomitic_asteroid
That's funny. I'd heard that God had an anti-bigots asteroid lined up next.
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LOL Sara!
My reaction was, why is god so obsessed with gay marriage that he'll even send a divinely-targeted, anti-sodomitic asteroid?
Why not send a divinely-targeted, anti-IS asteroid instead? I'm sure that would do a whole world of more good to humanity.
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I don't recognise the name David Harbour.
What part did he play in BBM?
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I don't recognise the name David Harbour.
What part did he play in BBM?
I had to look it up, :) Randall Malone.
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Oh, I see!
Thanks, Brian!
He seems to have gotten rid of his beard! :D
(above sentence is free for interpretation 8))
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FWIW.. my notes say --> Brokeback started filming today, 14 Jun 2004! 11 fracking years... ago. Cheers to all! V.
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Cool, Vincent!! Another anniversary!
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Indifference as to gay and transgendered soldiers is definitely a good thing.
Also, I wonder if Jimmy minds being an editor emerita?
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Indifference as to gay and transgendered soldiers is definitely a good thing.
Also, I wonder if Jimmy minds being an editor emerita?
How would you suggest we solve the issue?
emeritae/us ??
emeritae-plural female
emeritus-single male
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we could just say "former, honored editors"
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That's a good possibility, as well as editors emeritae and editor emeritus.
Of course, if Jimmy doesn't mind, who am I to object? :D
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I don't think he has even noticed it.
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Well, you know me and Latin. ;)
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West Point Grads
I saw this posted on Facebook yesterday. I think that if there were more straight guys with bloody noses, there would be fewer gay bashings.
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West Point Grads
I saw this posted on Facebook yesterday. I think that if there were more straight guys with bloody noses, there would be fewer gay bashings.
i tend to agree, but that's how some feel about cops...
less police brutality if there were more cop killings.
enough is enough,,, we can't take it any more.
it's time to change what we cannot accept.
but violence is not the answer. try love.
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I don't think he has even noticed it.
whut?
:D
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i tend to agree, but that's how some feel about cops...
less police brutality if there were more cop killings.
enough is enough,,, we can't take it any more.
it's time to change what we cannot accept.
but violence is not the answer. try love.
That's apples and oranges. Police brutality is an institutional problem that cannot be solved by individual intervention. Gay bashing is an interpersonal problem than cannot be solved by institutional intervention. If someone wants to beat my face in because I'm with another man, all the love in the world is not going to stop his fists. Fighting back gives me a chance at survival and reducing bodily injury.
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whut?
:D
Your name is at the end of TDS as an Editor emeritae, which Fritz pointed out is the female spelling, and so we were debating as to how to correct it. In the end, I made the comment that you probably had not noticed it.
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Actually, editor emerita. ;)
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we could just say "former, honored editors"
Hey! Nice translation!
TDS lookin' good, Chuck!
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That's apples and oranges. Police brutality is an institutional problem that cannot be solved by individual intervention. Gay bashing is an interpersonal problem than cannot be solved by institutional intervention. If someone wants to beat my face in because I'm with another man, all the love in the world is not going to stop his fists. Fighting back gives me a chance at survival and reducing bodily injury.
oh... bloody noses in self defense. yes i agree.
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Your name is at the end of TDS as an Editor emeritae, which Fritz pointed out is the female spelling, and so we were debating as to how to correct it. In the end, I made the comment that you probably had not noticed it.
o i c... keep the feminine, i don't mind! ;) ;D
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Famazingworld.com%2Faw-reg-email-ws%2Fimages%2Fcongrats.png&hash=de1e0ee73e01945326d0eeaa6a2d2e972e691385)
Congrats to Counting For Thunder and everyone involved with the project, they were named Grand Prize Winner Best Picture Alternative Spirit Award
(https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/s960x960/11872277_973873109300872_8783086782104408520_o.jpg)
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(https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/11878971_973871282634388_1971568120701785214_o.jpg)
DCF member/Mod TellYouWhat (Ellen) with the award.
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Wow! Congrats Ellen, Phillip and company!
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Regarding this in the Daily Sheet today:
Studio executives didn't think Ledger was “macho” enough for the role of ranch hand Ennis Del Mar.
This isn't the first time I have read something like that. Not about Heath, but about other instances
where the person chosen to play a gay character wasn't liked by unnamed "studio executives"
because they felt they weren't macho enough or too feminine.
What I think happens is that when someone is chosen/considered for a gay role, the unnamed studio
executives start looking at the person with a feminine outlook. That is to say they start noticing
things about them they wouldn't ordinarily notice because they are conditioned in certain ways and
looking at someone differently makes you see them differently, even though they aren't changed,
you are.
It's a bit harder to explain than I figured, but I can give an example. When John Ritter was cast as
Jack in Three's Company, a role that required him to be thought of as gay by his landlord, and as
the landlord had stereotypical notions of what that meant, Jack would play on those stereotypes,
the executives at ABC didn't really want him in that role because they thought John Ritter was too
effeminate.
That sounds really ridiculous to me. John Ritter was nothing but the typical late 70's young straight
male when it came right down to it. I never thought he was effeminate in any way.
In another interesting take on this idea, when John Abbott, the long-lived Broadway producer, who
also dabbled in a few films, was involved in casting Damn Yankees for the screen, he did not want
Tab Hunter to play the role. He wanted the original Broadway actor. (Tab Hunter writes about this
in his book.) Now in this case, John Abbott knew that Tab Hunter was gay and felt that he wasn't
masculine enough for the role and wouldn't be believable. Sort of an opposite idea. He knew Tab
Hunter was gay and didn't want him playing the straight masculine role. Whereas in the Heath/Ritter
scenarios they were projecting the opposite in terms of thinking about the straight actors playing gay
roles. In both cases it's the perceptions of the "executives" that were coloring the situation. In other
words, it's the straight man's perception that gay men must be feminine (or want to be) that they
look for it to be the case.
I can't tell if I've explained myself properly, but I'll leave it at that for the moment.
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Way to go, Ellen!
Congrats to you all!!
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Congratulations, y'all!
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I can't tell if I've explained myself properly, but I'll leave it at that for the moment.
No I totally get what you are saying, they probably did it with Sean Penn in Milk.. Al Pacino in Dog Day Afternoon, you do start to look at them and their body of work in a different light.
Dare I say Philliip Semour Hoffman in Capote? ;)
I wonder if the director or executive himself is gay, that may make a difference!
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(https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/t31.0-8/11878971_973871282634388_1971568120701785214_o.jpg)
DCF member/Mod TellYouWhat (Ellen) with the award.
Congrats!! AND you look great!
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Regarding the Brokie meet up in Arizona, both Linda (KillersMom) and Diana Osanna posted information on FB regarding hotel information.
That new information has been posted in the Gatherings thread. Click the link below for information.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=48810.msg2578540#msg2578540
P.S. If you are thinking about making the trip, you should make hotel reservations ASAP. The weekend of the Brokie event is the same weekend as the Arizona University home game. Hotels near the stadium are already FULLY BOOKED. Hotels near the theater for our event still have openings.
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What Gay Men Should Do Next??
Sure, our society needs to do some work when it comes to equality for women, but sexual minorities still have an uphill struggle when it comes to employment and housing discrimination. That is what they should do next.
Right here in Pennsylvania, there is no state-wide anti-discrimination law to protect sexual minorities. Each city and township gets to make their own decision to include us or not. This issue needs to be addressed on a federal level, and my opinion is that it has always been far more important for us to protect our jobs and homes than it was for us to be able to marry. Without protections from housing and job discrimination, our equality is really rather lopsided.
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The story on Tab Hunter was very interesting. I saw the documentary (it's very good and he's charming). Henry Willson, the man who "discovered" him was a piece of work. Mr. Willson did not publicly identify as a homosexual (he had several fake engagements) and when it came he was very opposed to the gay rights movement (he identified as a conservative Republican). He also "discovered" Rock Hudson, Guy Madison and several other male stars and was on good terms with another right wing man who did not publicly identify as homosexual but had lots of sex with men, Roy Cohn.
There's an interesting book on him as well entitled "The Man Who Invented Rock Hudson" by Robert Hofler. Here's a link to a review of the book:
http://www.popmatters.com/review/180975-the-man-who-invented-rock-hudson-the-pretty-boys-and-dirty-deals-of-/
The only caveat I would give to people interested in this is that this is very much a pop biography (Kirkus reviews called it a "bedroom biography") so don't go there expecting to read Churchill or Boswell.
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Very true, Michael. I just got the book yesterday, and am about 40 pages in. It is definitely a tell all and not heavy reading.
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That's a very good review of the book, Michael. I read this book several years ago and then read
Tab Hunter's book afterwards. Those inspired me to read a couple books written by some other
actors of the time who were less famous, but still had success compared to most. It all makes for
fascinating pieces of the puzzle of what it was like to be a gay movie star, or actor in times when it
was expected for things like this to be hidden and then discover how people dealt with this. Hidden
in plain sight often comes to mind.
Even today actors and many others in Hollywood are living lives with convoluted and distorted ideas of
how they should do that as gay people in terms of the closet and openness and business and personal
situations. We know so much now about film stars who were gay from the 1950's and 60's and yet
right now in an age where those same people could never have envisioned the progress we have in
that area we have no openly gay Hollywood movie actors of the same caliber? Did I say progress?
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I don't think we have movie stars like we use to........Clark Gable, Rock Hudson, we don't have those kind of guys. We have Shia LaBeouf! :D
Not sure it is relevant, but was just reading this about Nathan Lane:
A reporter for Us Weekly once asked Lane if he was gay; he replied, "I'm 40, single and work a lot in the musical theater. You do the math."[17] When, at age 21, he told his mother he was gay, she replied, "I would rather you were dead,"[3][18] to which he replied, "I knew you'd understand." Lane, who came out officially after the death of Matthew Shepard,[3] has been a long-time board member of and fundraiser for Broadway Cares/Equity Fights AIDS,[19] and has been honored by the Human Rights Campaign,[20] Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation,[21] and The Trevor Project[22] for his work in the LGBT community. Lane resides in New York City with long-time partner Devlin Elliott.[23]
I think the people that our out and gay in Hollywood are doing amazing things in and for the gay community. Maybe we just don't hear about that much.
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There is much more openness and acceptance in the Broadway community than there is in the Hollywood community.
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I think you are right, so maybe if they get the acceptance there......then they just slide on over to TV and movies and it all goes with them! Love Nathan Lane, he can do no wrong in my book.
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I don't think we have movie stars like we use to.
We never have anything like we used to. And familiarity breeds contempt, so the adage goes.
Clark Gable and Rock Hudson once thought TV would ruin their movie images and/or careers.
Imagine what they'd think of the 24 hour TV coverage and entertainment related "news"
programs every day (is TMZ a news program?) not to mention iPhones and computers and
youtube and tweeting, instagram, SnapChat, Apps, ad infinitum that they might not participate
in, but where anyone else can to talk about them etc.
I cannot imagine Clark Gable wanting anything to do with all of that.
I could, though, imagine Rock Hudson using Grindr.
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Moved from the Daily Sheet thread to this thread.
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=49012.0
Dear moderators,
I don't know if this an appropriate place to put this post, if it isn't, please let me know. I feel the need to say something about this specific news excerpt. Nobody is denying Kim Davis the right to practice her religion as she sees fit, Christopher Ciccone. Nobody is seeking to "destroy" her, but people want to let her know that discrimination against other human beings on the basis of one's chosen religious beliefs is not okay. No one is making her "betray" her religion. By the way, why is she in a profession that would create conflicts with her religious beliefs in the first place? Is it okay in your eyes, Christopher, for a Roman Catholic judge to not allow divorce amgonst a couple who are unhappy with each other because the Vatican believes the Bible condemns divorce, even if the couple are not Roman Catholics? Does a heterosexual man who happens to have an abusive personality have the right to brutalize his wife on the basis of his belief that Yahweh made women to be subservient helpmates to men? I don't think that a church is a "sanctuary", considering all of the hypocrisy and hidden moral corruption that exists within houses of worship. Recently the Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia faced legal issues after the Royal Commission in the country discovered that the denomination has a database that contains 1,006 known cases of child molestation since 1950 that were never reported to the police. What does that say about the "superiority" of "religious morality" in today's world?
How many well-meaning JW's who know of a child who was molested by a fellow Jehovah's Witness, are scared to go to the police over this incident for fear that their religious leaders will accuse them of " bringing reproach on Jehovah's name and His chosen organization" ? A church largely isn't a "sanctuary" for LGBT people, at least in many cases. Countless organized religious groups vilify and dehumanize the very existence and worth of LGBT individuals as human beings. The romantic lives and sexual behavior of consenting adults isn't anyone else's business. Unmarried couples also face the same sort of demonization. LGBT youths are often thrown out of their homes by their religious families and left to fend for themselves on the streets. A significant portion of homeless youth in Utah are LGBT , and many of them were from orthodox Mormon households.
Churches aren't "sanctuaries". Moral corruption exists in religious houses of worship, just as moral corruption exists in the secular world. Unfortunately, cases of moral corruption are often covered up in religious institutions who refuse to such information about unlawful acts to secular authorities. Those religious persons who speak out against it are often punished for speaking out. The Roman Catholic Church has had numerous priests accuses of molesting children and teenagers, and how many of them are caught and punished in a secular court of law? Very few of them are ever convicted for their crimes. The Bible does not address the issue of child molestation, does not take a stance on the issue, or or how to handle such an issue, at least not that I am aware of. Excommunicating adult persons from religious groups for having sex with other consenting adults of the same gender is quite absurd when you thin about it. Gay dating, marriage and sexual relationships amongst consenting adults are victimless crimes, pedophilia is not.
Kim Davis not a "modern-day Rosa Parks". Rosa Parks was being forced to give up her sit to a white man because she had black skin. She was physically exhausted from Christmas shopping and understandably tired of being pushed around because she was a black woman. She was standing up for herself to people who thought that she was lesser than them because of her physical appearance. Rosa's actions helped many blacks fight to have equal city on public transportation. We owe Rosa a lot for her bravery, just as we do for Martin Luther King Jr., for helping people to see that a equality helps bring about a better world for all, regardless of their ethnicity or other background. In the 1960's many blacks, especially in the South couldn't eat a the same restaurants or attend the same educational institutions as white people because of their skin color. Some blacks were even the victims of racial terrorist acts for merely wanting and peaceably fighting for equal treatment under the law.
Kim Davis, she wants the privilege to deny people basic human rights because their personal lives bother her and conflict with the organized belief system that she has chosen to join. Christians are hardly discriminated against in this country for their religious beliefs, when they do face discrimination, such acts usually seem to be perpetrated by their fellow Christians who disagree with their theological views and practices. Have you ever studied the various Inquisitions that occurred in Europe between Roman Catholics and Protestants for centuries over religious disputes? That is an example of religious intolerance. Is it okay for a landlord who thinks it is morally wrong to date or marry a person of a different skin color to deny housing to an interracial couple? Is it okay for a cab driver to refuse to drop a person of color off in a predominately white community because that would be helping the races to mix, an idea that the cab driver finds to be "unethical"? Would it be okay for an employee at a public store that receives tax dollars to a put up a sign in their shop saying that Jewish persons are forbidden to enter the shop, because by allowing ethnic, religious or cultural Jews to stop in the store, it would offend the employee's anti-Semitic beliefs?
People like you, Christopher Ciccone, excusing the bigotry of hateful individuals is one of the reasons why the world is a more difficult place to live in. It is one reason why black youths are being murdered by policemen who largely go unpunished for their crimes. As for a Muslim woman wanting to wear a scarf over her face, she can do that in privacy of her own home and house of worship, she can even do that in certain public instances, but not allowing her to drive without a male chaperone, that is not much more than an example of woman-hating men who seem to be suffering from a control freak factor. A person is entitled to their religious beliefs, but they are not free from having their religious beliefs criticized or challenged. You can practice your religion, but you don't have any right to force people to abide by your religions rules whether it be legally, politically or socially. We have separation of church and state in the U.S., and for a very good reasons. All citizens are required to abide by the laws of the land, if Kim Davis cannot do her job properly, then surely her county can find some else who can do her job more properly.
Religious institutions are not exempt from following any secular laws in the U.S. If they refuse to obey secular laws, then their tax-exempt status can be taken away. Why is it okay to allow discrimination on the basis of a person's chosen religious beliefs, but it is not okay for other kinds of beliefs? Why is it okay for people to treat their fellow human beings unfairly in the social sense because of their religious beliefs? What if a person refused to carry out a certain task that their job requires because Napoleon Bonaparte or Julius Caesar wouldn't like it? Can't you see how plain irrational that is, Christopher? Nobody is preventing Kim Davis from practicing her religion in the privacy of her own home or denominational house of worship, people are merely saying that she shouldn't be allowed to refuse to do her job because it conflicts with her religious beliefs. If she can't do her job, then she should be replaced by someone who is willing to treat all couples fairly, which by the way, is a part of her job. I don't believe in sore winners, only people who cannot handle losing. Same-sex couples and LGBT people in general have every right to be glad about this woman being punished for not carrying out the requirements of her job in a fair and just manner. Religiously-based discrimination is not special, and should not be treated as such.
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...
I cannot imagine Clark Gable wanting anything to do with all of that.
I could, though, imagine Rock Hudson using Grindr.
:D robert reed too. and john travolta. >:D
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There is much more openness and acceptance in the Broadway community than there is in the Hollywood community.
It's always been this way, for some reason.
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uhhhhh, could it be because there are soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many gay men in theater?
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And yet, from what I've heard, the Shuberts, who owned quite a number of the theaters in the Broadway area, were quite antigay and fostered prejudice, back in the heyday.
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ha! i can see them, up in arms, after a very gay cast would bring the house down with a sold out show!
geaux gay!! :D
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Hiya DCF members.
I'm having some sort of technical difficulty with TDS.
I'm able to post everywhere on the forum, but the thread I use for TDS isn't responding. I don't know why.
I'll try to update tomorrow and post a day later than usual.
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Update - Dave Cullen Forum
Hello DCF members. We have another update to give you.
Regarding the forum's migration, the first two steps will be taking place this coming Monday (9/28). The forum will be taken offline, a final back-up will be performed and then the update will take place.
We don't have an exact time that the forum will be down, but we don't expect it to be longer than one day.
Once the back-up and update are complete, the forum will be online again we can begin to prepare for the migration to the new server. When this takes place, the forum will be offline again while the migration takes place. We are not sure when this will be, but will let you know when and how long.
Regarding the set up of the banking and PayPal accounts, they are both done. The account had to be opened in my name, because DCF doesn't have an actual EIN number. The PayPal account is set-up, and just needs to be confirmed. Once the confirmation takes place, we are able to accept donations. If you are unable or would prefer not to use PayPal, a check can always be mailed to me. Just contact me via PM, and I'll give you my mailing addresses. I have already received one donation this way.
We will be keeping a list of donations and donors, as basic recordkeeping, but this will remain private.
Monthly statements will be published for members to view.
Just as a reminder, there will be a cost for the back-up & update, and a cost for the migration. After that, the cost for keeping the forum up and running will be approximately $40.00 a month.
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At the bottom of the page is a box that says "Donate Via Paypal". DO NOT USE THAT BUTTON. If you do, funds will go to an inactive account, and we will have to work with PayPal to get your funds back.
OMG!
that is crucial information!
can't the account be deactivated? or the button removed? wtf.
and wtf with INDONESIA too... >:( why do we even deal with countries with such abhorrent human rights records? boycott that shit!
also, why is hillary focusing on transgendered rights? it seems to affect such a small portion of the general population. seriously? why not focus on larger problems? like corporate taxes, welfare, immigration, healthcare... to me, it seems a focus on transgender issues would actually cause her to lose some supporters.
thank you chuck for all your hard work on TDS. :-* :-* :-*
now somebody get rid of that faulty paypal button!
oh, and line them up on one line already, lol. ;)
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Will TDS get back to the top of the page eventually? I'd hate to miss it by forgetting to look for it.
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Which is more helpful - a one-off donation, or a small monthly one?
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Will TDS get back to the top of the page eventually? I'd hate to miss it by forgetting to look for it.
sara, it seems the newbox has changed. each time you refresh the page it should cycle and present you with new information.
for instance, right now it is saying links appreciated for dave's lucia berlin event that happened last week :D
keep clicking and checking that space. TDS will show up soon enough.
i kinda like it because you don't necessarily need to scroll down to see all the stuff.
hope this helps! 😁😀
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Thanks, Jimmy, but it's not there. ATM I've only got Ultimate Brokeback Guide and Beyond Brokeback. And that's on my iPad and on my computer. Though I'm sure I've seen more up there on other days.
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oh!! well make sure the tiny little arrow in the upper right corner is pointing up. ^
that should open up the pane to include the rotating news box.
then lather, rinse, repeat. 😅
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opening up that pane will
also reveal the fabulous
new soon-2-be-up and-
running search box....
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Which is more helpful - a one-off donation, or a small monthly one?
I was just about to ask that.
Can we use the "Donate via PayPal" button or not? I'm confused.
Edit: Uhm :) I've read TDS now - but you need to make clear the PayPal button shouldn't be used, or remove the button altogether if that's possible. People might not read TDS and might use the button and it's a lot of hassle to get your money back.
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Which is more helpful - a one-off donation, or a small monthly one?
Well we have to pay the IT contractor for his work on the clean up and upgrade. And then for the migration. But we will continue to have monthly charge around $40 as long as the forum is running. So in the long run, a small monthly donation would be great.
At the end of every month I will publish a simple Balance sheet showing the donations and the payments.
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Thanks, Linda.
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Can we use the "Donate via PayPal" button or not? I'm confused.
Edit: Uhm :) I've read TDS now - but you need to make clear the PayPal button shouldn't be used, or remove the button altogether if that's possible. People might not read TDS and might use the button and it's a lot of hassle to get your money back.
I'm not sure if we can remove the button. TDS does state, in all caps, not to use it.
At the bottom of the page is a box that says "Donate Via Paypal". DO NOT USE THAT BUTTON. If you do, funds will go to an inactive account, and we will have to work with PayPal to get your funds back.
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Well we have to pay the IT contractor for his work on the clean up and upgrade. And then for the migration. But we will continue to have monthly charge around $40 as long as the forum is running. So in the long run, a small monthly donation would be great.
At the end of every month I will publish a simple Balance sheet showing the donations and the payments.
I can't see how to send a monthly payment, though I've done it before...
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if you can't remove the button right away, can you insert a line of type?
like a warning pointing to the button? for instance:
DO NOT USE THIS BUTTON ----->
it looks like you disabled some emojis, so you might at least be able to do that!
😀😅💋😉😳😀🍰😁😏😐😧😸👲🏿👲🏿👳🏾👹👽💑👃🏾👆🏼👌🏼👐🌸🌾🐁🐄🐰🐅🐰🐃🐁🐰🙈🐊🔥🌙⛅️🌄🌊🗻🌒🌽🍊🍓🍣🍣🍪🍷🍯☕️🍻🎂🎑🎆💖🎱🎡🚄🇨🇩🇭🇰🇬🇺🇬🇺🇮🇳🇮🇩🇰🇼🇰🇬🇰🇮🇱🇻🇱🇹🇲🇽🇲🇸🇳🇷🇲🇳🇲🇲🇶🇦🇵🇾🇹🇴🇸🇷🇹🇬🇹🇴🇹🇨🇿🇼⌛️💻⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️🇿🇲🇿🇲🇿🇲🇿🇲🇿🇲🇿🇲🇿🇲⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️📱⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⌚️⏳⌚️⌚️💽💽💾💿✉️📦📬📫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫🔫💣💣💣💣💣💣💣💣💣💣📫📑📆📭📯📄📙📗📇📍🚩🔉🔊📣✏️📏🈺🈁🈯️🏧🅰📴📴✅♋️♒️🚰🔼⏬⏩⏪↙️↗️↔️↘️➖🎦➗🔃💲➰💢♻️♠️⚫️🔴🔴🔸◻️⬛️◽️
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oh weird, they didn't show up in the preview but they do in the post!
😄👍👍👍👍👍👍✨✨✨✨
sara could u ever get the newsbox to show up?
the new forum seems more streamlined... i like it.
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It seems to appear randomly! I think it's just when I press Reply actually.... :-\
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how weird!
i can make it appear or disappear by clicking the arrow up top.
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This 'reply' didn't do it! At the moment I've got FAQ and rules etc.
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try refreshing the page!
mine has TDS!
;)
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Seems to cycle - randomly?
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yes, I sometimes get the same thing twice in a row
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Daraprim is NOT an “AIDS drug.” The drug has no effect whatsoever on HIV. AIDS patients take it in combination with other compounds to treat toxoplasmosis.
The major use of Daraprim worldwide is for the treatment of malaria. Daraprim is a malaria drug.
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I got both "Search" methods to work! Thanks so much :).
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I want a t-shirt with "Inherently Disordered" on it.
Either that or "Intrinsic Moral Evil" - that one is nice too.
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Both are equally good!
I'll have to see what I can do!!
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Now Mack is saying that he's bisexual.
After 10 children, he might be right!
http://www.joemygod.com/2015/11/02/boxer-yusaf-mack-comes-clean-i-am-a-bisexual-man/
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One isolated Chick-Fil-A is supporting a gay film festival, and the former supporters of the chain are saying it's gone completely gay.
Their supporters are rather fickle.
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Most of these issues are crazy anyway.
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That's for sure!
Mack apparently didn't think that the film maker would fight back.
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They must have "forgotten" to teach us in middle school that Queen Kristina was a lesbian...
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Mack is saying that he's bisexual.
After 10 children, he might be right!
;D
What would MACK THE KNIFE say...?
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Er schweigt.
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Und zeigt seine Zähne.
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The Mormon Temple shown in TDS is just outside Washington DC in the Maryland suburbs, and for a short space the Beltway looks like it's heading straight to the building. Because of the way it looks, a railroad bridge has frequently been painted with the words "Surrender Dorothy".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/surrender-dorothy-painted-on-a-beltway-overpass--whats-the-story/2011/06/23/AGduf6kH_story.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrender_Dorothy
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It would be nice to know where we're standing financially.
Are there enough funds to pay for the work done so far?
And what about the monthly fee, is it covered for now?
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I got the last bill for the upgrade and have to pay it when Chuck gets back. So once we have that paid I will post a balance sheet. There is still one more site to move over and once that happens and we get the bill for that it will get paid.
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Good to know. Thanks, Linda.
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Hello.
There won't be a Daily Sheet tomorrow, as I only got back home from a trip today at 4:30. It will be back next week.
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Thanks so much Chuckie and Linda for the Daily Sheet shout-out re our movie Counting For Thunder. We'll keep you all posted in the new year about upcoming screenings, festivals, etc. Always appreciate the support from the folks on our initial stomping grounds!!
Phillip Irwin Cooper
Writer/Director, Counting For Thunder
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If Cruz isn't a gay basher, he's doing a splendid imitation of being one.
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Does anybody know if and when these idiots are going to take an actual look at the Middle East and see what happens when you mix religion and poitics?
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Gay Actor Lands Role in ABC Sitcom
A producer for ABC's new sitcom "The Real O'Neals" wanted a gay actor for the role of a teenager who comes out to his shocked Catholic family but was prevented by a law designed to protect gays and lesbians from asking those auditioning about their sexual orientation.
"It was very important to me and I was in a panic," said Todd Holland, an executive producer for the series that debuts March 2 before settling into a regular Tuesday time slot a week later.
It's interesting that Todd Holland is that producer. He's openly gay and directed a lot of television, including much of "Malcolm in the Middle"
and a pilot for a resurrection of The Time Tunnel, but in 2009 at an Outfest panel discussion in Los Angeles he was criticized for advising young
gay actors they should stay in the closet if they wanted a career. (You can google articles about it.)
Anyway, that was back in the dark ages of Prop 8 and marriage equality was in only around two states.
I hadn't heard about this show and will like to see if it's any good. Although, there was a sitcom that premiered fall
of 2014, titled The McCarthy's (religious Irish Catholic Boston family) and the gay son, played by Tyler Ritter, was pretty
much the lead and most every episode revolved around something he was doing, and I couldn't even get people on
the TV thread to give it a shot. It was very amusing and found its niche. Joey McIntyre and Laurie Metcalf were also
in it. There are 15 episodes. Not sure it's on dvd, but it is on Amazon video/streaming etc. If you want a laugh or two!
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Thanks Lyle, I'll look for it on Amazon.
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I hadn't heard about this show and will like to see if it's any good. Although, there was a sitcom that premiered fall
of 2014, titled The McCarthy's (religious Irish Catholic Boston family) and the gay son, played by Tyler Ritter, was pretty
much the lead and most every episode revolved around something he was doing, and I couldn't even get people on
the TV thread to give it a shot. It was very amusing and found its niche. Joey McIntyre and Laurie Metcalf were also
in it. There are 15 episodes. Not sure it's on dvd, but it is on Amazon video/streaming etc. If you want a laugh or two!
I didn't know about The McCarthys, but I will give it a try. I am absolutely not interested in anything even remotely associated with Dan Savage, so I doubt I will tune in to watch The Real O'Neals.
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Here are links to both Hillary's and Bernie's gay platform planks:
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/hillary-clinton-released-her-plan-protect-and-expand-rights-lgbt-community/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=fb&utm_campaign=20151220feed-lgbt
https://berniesanders.com/issues/fighting-for-lgbt-equality/
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In last week's TDS article Church offers 'Transgender Baptisms' for Preferred Sex the accompanying photo actually comes from a different news story. It is of Jo Clifford, the transgender author and performer of a play about Jesus returning to earth as a transgender woman.
Play attacked by bishops (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/02/15/play-attacked-by-bishops-for-featuring-jesus-as-a-transgender-woman/?utm_source=PNFB&utm_medium=SocialFB&utm_content=FBN&utm_campaign=PNFacebook)
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Re: Rebel Wilson's Transgender Joke
This year, though Eddie Redmayne is nominated for multiple awards -- including an Oscar -- for playing a trans woman in "The Danish Girl," the transgender members of the acclaimed indie film "Tangerine" were not recognized by the Academy, despite a promotional campaign aiming to make them the first-ever openly trans people nominated for an Oscar for acting.
The Oscars (Academy) are constantly being singled out, but this article was about a joke made at the BAFTA's and
BAFTA did not nominate the Tangerine actors, either. This film has not garnered that attention from most award
giving groups, so to pick out ONE group who didn't seems decidedly unfair.
Everyone wants "their" favorite movie to be awarded. The nerds of the world decry that movies like
Batman Returns and Star Wars: The Force awakens never get recognized and we all know that comedies
are nearly always excluded. When it comes right down to it, most everyone's favorite movie doesn't get
that attention.
The joy of awards shows is that you get to see and talk about all the movies people are watching.
The trick is to not mind so much if your particular favorite isn't awarded.
And, yes, it's a trick, because once in awhile there's a reason to be peeved.
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Like when Lily Tomlin is snubbed for GRANDMA. That's why I'm boycotting the Oscars this year. Every ten years Oscar REALLY fucks up.
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Hiya guys!
I've been trying to get TDS done, but photobucket isn't making it easy.
Since I have to be in bed in three hours, and I haven't even started TDS yet, I'm thinking we won't have a new issue this week, but it will be back the following week.
Sorry about that!!!
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Don't worry, Chuck! It'll just be nice when it does arrive. :)
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What Sara said...
Take your time.
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Nice article about the South Dakota rodeo rider coming out! This past week this headline--the Republican Governor of South Dakota did this:
South Dakota's Governor Just Vetoed an Anti-Transgender School Bathroom Bill.
Sometimes, you're pleasantly surprised. According to the HRC, Human Rights Campaign, there's
nearly 200 pieces of anti-LGBT legislation in statehouses across the U.S. trying to deny rights to
LGBT people, several about this issue and others concerning "religious liberty".
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^^^Yes! Slowly, slowly.
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Nice article about the South Dakota rodeo rider coming out! This past week this headline--the Republican Governor of South Dakota did this:
South Dakota's Governor Just Vetoed an Anti-Transgender School Bathroom Bill.
Sometimes, you're pleasantly surprised. According to the HRC, Human Rights Campaign, there's
nearly 200 pieces of anti-LGBT legislation in statehouses across the U.S. trying to deny rights to
LGBT people, several about this issue and others concerning "religious liberty".
Are the 'religious liberty' people ever going to wise up and understand that people who actually do think about what they say are not saying that it's Christianity that's fucked up, it's the ignoramuses who bend and twist it (SORRY) bass ackwards, and abominably and stupidly, at that...
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It seems to me that whenever an individual or group is trying to stop anyone from
doing things they find objectionable (for whatever reason) and things that are not
hurting anyone else, it's just fear based and usually irrational. Hard to change that.
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From today's TDS: Tattoo Fixer "Sketch" Devastates Transgender Model
...yet another reason NOT to get tattooed.
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I hadn't heard about this show and will like to see if it's any good. Although, there was a sitcom that premiered fall
of 2014, titled The McCarthy's (religious Irish Catholic Boston family) and the gay son, played by Tyler Ritter, was pretty
much the lead and most every episode revolved around something he was doing, and I couldn't even get people on
the TV thread to give it a shot. It was very amusing and found its niche. Joey McIntyre and Laurie Metcalf were also
in it. There are 15 episodes. Not sure it's on dvd, but it is on Amazon video/streaming etc. If you want a laugh or two!
Hey! I watched it. >:( Or, at least I had the TV tuned to it when it was on. ::) But I've never seen Laurie Metcalf in anything that I didn't think she was good in.
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From today's TDS:
Harvey Levin Gives an Honest Account of Growing Up Gay
Back in the 80's I used to talk to Harvey Levin all the time where I worked, when he
was working for the local CBS News station in Los Angeles.
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What a moving story the gay twin told.
I'm glad his mom got to see him as a dad.
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I also found the twin story moving. A bit surprised he did not realise he was gay until he was actually propositioned. At first I thought the other guy had mistaken him for his twin, We do not know if they were identical.
Such stories always depress me. In my time no-one would have propositioned another guy outside of a gay bar and I did not even find them until I was in my 30's. One only met through (disreputable) newspaper adverts. And of course marriage and adoption was beyond a gay man's wildest dreams.
Even today, men my age do not make their sexuality too obvious away from gay bars and there are none in my town. However as I mentioned on Diner I was gobsmacked when walking through the reading room of the local university library to see one guy blatantly advertising on his computer cover.
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Regarding the movie discussed in TDS this week, I've found a copy of "Dream Boy" posted to You Tube, in full, that you can watch for free.
foreverinawe wrote a great post about the movie here:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=1423.msg2616219#msg2616219
If you'd like to watch the movie and give your views as well, watch it here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8l3wla4L-k
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Nobody has replied to the TDS invitation to watch Dream Boy. That surprises me, but I know a lot of folks aren't eager to repeat the anguish of Brokeback Mountain. And indeed, Dream Boy does exactly that.
"No replies" doesn't mean that it didn't get watched: it just means nobody posted about their feelings. So I really don't know if it was watched or not, but I would like to express my own feelings, for what they're worth.
I wrote a synopsis of the plot in order to make what I thought were significant points. But it's too long, I won't put it here. I wanted to tell how their love grew, but the main point I wanted to make was about the ending.
In BBM, Annie deliberately gives us the ambiguity of Jack's death: accidental or by gay bashing. In the movie, Nathan is raped and killed pitilessly by Burke, one of Roy's unexpectedly homophobic buddies. And here, the movie diverges profoundly from the book. Director/screenwriter Bolton steps into fantasy, but only long enough to let us see Nathan's spirit, made flesh again for just a day, revisit Roy.
In the barn where Roy had hidden him from his abusing father, Nathan finds a sobbing Roy, sitting on the bed of straw. Silently, Nathan walks to Roy, who does not sense him until they are almost touching. The startled Roy can only gasp "Nathan!" and stands to hug him.
In their surreal last embrace, their faces tell us that they understand the finality of their loss, they recognize the hopelessness. Unlike BBM, we see the love that had filled both their souls since they first met. Each tries to tell it, but no words come forth. For us, all that remains is to share their unutterable heartbreak.
In the last scene of the movie with Roy driving the school bus and imagining Nathan's shy smile in the mirror, a distant passage takes shape: "...around that time Jack began to appear in his dreams...", and we are back on familiar ground, familiar agonizing ground.
Why, dear God, why must life ever be like this?
~~~fia
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Not reading your post above now, since I plan to watch it one of these days.
Will get back when I've seen it.
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fia, I watched the film today, I intend to post up my feelings on it at one point tomorrow.
If anyone else wants to see it, you can watch it on YouTube for free here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8l3wla4L-k
anyone who does want to watch the film and add their own impressions, can do so here:
http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=1423.msg2616219#msg2616219
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From today's TDS: The Gay Subtext of Batman & Robin.
The linked article is a hoot to read and I recommend it.
___
In a way, it made me start thinking about a correlation to another article today:
Ang Lee Slams Oscars Over Chris Rock's 'Racist' Joke About East Asians
He's one of 24 East Asians who were offended by stereotyping in a joke at the Oscars this year, feeling it's racist and demeaning.
(Occurs to me that black men have no problem with anyone stereotyping them with the idea that their penises are larger than other races.
The oscars joke implying Asians are smart and into technology--is that racist? Is it a bad idea? It's interesting that the joke about the kids
made the cell phones that people might call in on to complain was taken to mean that "they--Asians--invented the technology when I took
it to mean young Asian kids made them in sweatshop type factories. ?
I'm not sure my thoughts are about to be written in a coherent simplified manner, but I'll put them out there.
My first thought is that people have been distorting the meanings of two words over time: stereotype (stereotyping) and racism (racist).
I suppose I should put the dictionary definitions of these two words out there first:
STEREOTYPE:
A widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing.
Often exaggerated.
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RACIST:
Well, now, look up this word in any number of dictionaries and you'll find the basic idea, but written in so many
subtleties that one can come to different conclusions about what it actually means.
In fact, if you look up a website called Diversity Inc., you will find this:
The two most contentious issues on this website are the definition of racism and the concept of white privilege.
The concept that racism is power based—and flows from power to lack of power—is hard to grasp for majority
people (defined in this country as white, male, heterosexual, Christian and with no disabilities). I can understand
the frustration: Racism is hard to grasp. But white privilege is almost impossible for a majority person to truly
understand.
So, if I understand that correctly, if I'm a majority person as defined above I am automatically racist? (Unless I'm gay?)
That's what some insist on that site which had this:
"Is that what you’re saying? If you have "white privilege" you are automatically racist? Or is the Oxford definition of racism too “white” for you?"
The reply:
"Actually, it is. If you look up who runs the Oxford University Press, which publishes the Oxford English Dictionary, you’ll find that the staff fits the very definition of “too white” (as do the top editors of the OED). Therefore, the definition of racism found there lacks nuance and is incomplete."
Again--does this mean or imply that whites who fit under the white privilege definition are all racists?
I guess so...if you look up the meaning of "racism" in the online Urban Dictionary, the most agreed upon definition is this:
RACIST: If you're a white man, this is what you are. It doesn't even matter if your wife is black and you have an adopted child from India, or how many black friends you have, somehow you're going to end up being a racist according to how the media portrays the white man as "racist whities".
All of this is funny because the white man is the one that is stereotyped as being racist, which is hypocrisy at its best. It's racist to assume that white men are racists.
If you don't get offended by racial insults, then you're apparently racist too, but an actual racist would get offended by it. When you hear a certain word too much (I'm sure we've all heard "cracka" hundreds of times thanks to standup comedy) then you become desensitized to it.
___
Well, I've written too much already and haven't even started trying to make a point. So what to do? What IS the point?
I guess what I'm wondering, with all of the Oscar controversy concerning black issues, the Trump issues of demeaning Mexicans
and targeting Muslims and Asians venting about the jokes at the awards show and politicians targeting LGBT people with "religious
liberty" legislation, religions feeling under siege, women feeling disenfranchised, not to mention a myriad of other things including
this group being blamed for everything: "white, male, heterosexual, Christian and with no disabilities" -- I'm wondering what?
I guess I'm wondering WHY? What's happening to make everyone feel like they're being attacked, or being discriminated against
or being dissed or being under valued or unloved or that someone else is getting something you should be getting etc.? Conversely,
why is everyone looking for each and every opportunity to be offended about something? Looking for offense in everything is a sure
time waster and quite exhausting, (Has the internet turned a whole new generation, and many previous ones, into a society who
looks for offense about anything online? Just look at what Twitter has wrought: People feel the need to put out so much crap and
then others feel the need to respond to it. Look at the comment sections of most any internet article or youtube video which allows
commenting. It's a cesspool of name calling and "I am right you are wrong" venting and worse.
We are somewhat spoiled here on the BBM forum because right from the start we've had moderators who will not allow much of this
free for all.
If you think about it, being offended by anything is an actual choice. And you can find any particular offense you want to find if you look for it.
To what avail? Did Ang Lee and George Takei and Sandra Oh and the 21 others who sent a letter to AMPAS complaining about the Chris Rock
joke on the Oscars really feel dissed and offended and victims of or by it? Or did they feel the Oscar controversy was too black oriented and were
leaving out other people of color and they wanted to draw attention to it? The stereotype they apparently were offended by is that Asian kids
are very smart and into technology.
Stereotypes in and of themselves are not bad things. It's in the eye of the beholder. There's the stereotype of black people as lazy and trying
to get out of work and slow and uneducated. The "Steppin Fetchit" type of character. It's why the NAACP has effectively banned the Amos 'n Andy
tv series from the airwaves or other media. Years ago I saw a couple dozen or more of these episodes on bootleg copies traveling around video circles.
It is true that the Kingfish character possesses a lot of these traits, but the others do not. Andy, for one, is a hard working cab driver and the Christmas
episode of him trying to work an extra job to get his family gifts is not only hilarious, but heartbreaking. The other people in the show, doctors, lawyers,
etc. are all played by black people and are not offensive. The wife and mother-in-law might be considered over the top, but could also be any white
characters on many a sitcom. The two part episode Getting Momma Married (Momma being the mother-in-law) should be on lists of the funniest TV
episodes ever. (It's a shame the talents of these actors are being tarnished for political reasons. I often wonder if the show got demolished by the
NAACP in the 60's because they were more offended of it's origins, the radio show with two white guys playing these characters. And also a film of it
with them in blackface. And the TV series probably had little black talent behind the scenes, like the writers and such.)
And George Takei might take offense to the Chris Rock Oscar joke, but guess what? Since George Takei has come out of the closet he has appeared
in several movies, tv shows and commercials as one of the worst stereotypes of gay men--the leering sexualized gay man predator type. The type of
character that riled a lot of gay people in the 90's when In Living Color had the Blaine & Antoine characters reviewing movies.
The truth is, some stereotypes are very amusing. Some are appealing. Stereotypes are not all bad. What's bad is if people think negative
stereotypes apply to everyone in the group being stereotyped -- or -- if people in the group think others think THEY are like that.
Okay, I guess I've stumbled into areas that volumes can be written about. I'd just like to hope that people stop actively looking for
reasons to be offended. It's time wasting. It's tiring. It's negative energy.
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Well, Lyle, it will come as no surprise that I agree with your post. What you have written with regards to these Asians being "offended" by Chris Rock is an overview of the problems created by political correctness. Too many people seem to think that they have the right to live in a world where everyone will cater to their emotional needs, and nobody's feelings will get hurt for any reason whatsoever. Someone says something mean about a member of a group, and BANG, the speaker has an instant "-ism" against all members of that group. Except hetero, white, able-bodied, Christian males. Apparently they are not a group.
Its total bullshit. And what makes it worse is that there are organizations, media producers, and other voices that are telling group X how they should feel about speaker Y because he made statement Z. Frankly, I don't need anyone to tell me who is racist and who is not. I'll find out myself and make my own determinations, thank you. This whole Chris Rock debacle is ironic because lots of every-day, average black folks think that Asians are just as likely to be racist as whites...if not more so. Let's not forget that George Takei called Clarence Thomas a "clown in blackface." And now that hypocrite has the nerve to play the race card against Chris Rock?? Give me a break!!
What makes matters even worse is that the purveyors of this type of discord cannot distinguish between their feelings and opinions and actual facts. It they feel that someone is racist, then that someone is in fact racist. There is no room for any difference of opinion. This kind of social rigidity and the self-censoring it engenders has given rise to a groundswell of what is being called cultural libertarianism. People want to be free to say what is on their minds without being labelled with an "-ism" or "phobia." And increasingly, they are doing just that. Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, 4chan, 8chan, and thousands of blogs and websites are now full of people just saying whatever is on their minds with no regard for who might be "offended." I say good for them.
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From today's TDS: The Gay Subtext of Batman & Robin.
The linked article is a hoot to read and I recommend it.
Yes, it was a hoot to read, and there are a number of pics that show Batman and Robin having more than a 'hero' relationship.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/bf/b5/b5/bfb5b58b90b853c23c1b3985b1c80cfa.jpg)
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I think people enjoy seeing "heros" being involved in a behavior you wouldn't suspect. Most heros today have a 'dark side', but back in the day they were pretty much paragons of virtue.
There used to be a cartoon called "Space Ghost", a hero who could turn invisible, and he traveled through space with his teen sidekicks Jan and Jayce, and their monkey Blip.
There's an image going around the 'net now with the Space Ghost characters meeting The Super Friends. They are all around a pit, placing bets as Blip fights the Super Friends' pet, Gleek. Aside from the illegal animal fight, on the right of the pic you can see Batman propositioning Space Ghost's sidekick, Jayce. Then, bringing incest into it, the Super Friends' trainees, siblings The Wonder Twins, are pictured on the left, making out.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_hN7X5gUktas%2FTE84rGKmYrI%2FAAAAAAAADJk%2F3U9uFKdH_3s%2Fs1600%2Ffightclub.jpg&hash=bd2c57c19e46d5f1d441ce606c83d683508d1ca3)
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How time passes--when Gloria Vanderbilt--famous in her own right--gets identified foremost for being Anderson Cooper's mother! Even I know who Gloria Vanderbilt is. I feel old. ... :(
Speaking of Anderson, he and Andy Cohen are appearing together for some sort of conversation thing at Philadelphia's Academy of Music. Might have been interesting. It's sold out. Doubtless you won't be able to swing a cat in the audience without hitting a gay guy. :D
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The show is supposed to be very very good, Jeff. A combination of funny things and very important issues of the day. If they were coming anywhere close to me, I would try to get tickets. The closest to me is Austin, TX, which is not undoable.
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There's an image going around the 'net [...] Aside from the illegal animal fight, on the right of the pic you can see Batman propositioning [...] Jayce.
Then, bringing incest into it, the Super Friends' trainees, siblings The Wonder Twins, are pictured on the left, making out.
Yes, lol, not to mention gambling, smoking and drinking!!!!!!!
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What makes matters even worse is that the purveyors of this type of discord cannot distinguish between their feelings and opinions and actual facts. It they feel that someone is racist, then that someone is in fact racist. There is no room for any difference of opinion. This kind of social rigidity and the self-censoring it engenders has given rise to a groundswell of what is being called cultural libertarianism.
And I believe this is why some comedians say they won't play colleges anymore...because of this new world where almost
any joke is subject to instant revision by the audience. I mean, one of these comedians who won't play college dates any
more might be the least offensive of any of them out there--Jerry Seinfeld. And another, ironically, is Chris Rock.
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1. If switching to a plan that includes the surgery is going to cost the library and/or the employees more $$, then I don't see any reason for them to comply. Dovel has other insurance options including a plan on the Affordable Care Act Marketplace, or her state's Health Insurance Marketplace if they have one.
2. Bryan Adams is a hypocrite. He has toured in countries in the Middle East that imprison sexual minorities...or worse. Yet he's going to "take a stand" in Mississippi. That's bullshit with a capital B.
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Just curious about the donations to keep the forum going.... 33 dollars a month? How would that work if everyone gave say $5.00 (which isn't a lot)... 6,000 members, $30,000 dollars!
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You have to remember bubba, that most of those 6000+ members are no longer active. If you went through the member list you'd see that less than .5% of registered members are still active. So we have to call on those of us who are still active to contribute to the forum if you still want a place to post.
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Yea I have to say I don't see 6,000 people posting here! lol
So is that .5 % or 5 %..... do we have 300 active members or just 30!!
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.5%
30 active members sounds about right.
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.5%
30 active members sounds about right.
Well that's great, you only need to get a dollar from everyone! That would cover the month, everyone gives 12 dollars, you can cover the whole year.
I can't imagine with the daily regulars that are on here every single day, that it would be a big issue.
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The monthly fee to run the forum is $33.99, not $30.
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The monthly fee to run the forum is $33.99, not $30.
Okay if we want to get down to the "penny"...........everyone gives $1.13
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That's going on the assumption that everyone who posts here will give. Not everyone will feel like they want to, which is why we stated when we started that it's voluntary and not a mandatory fee for each member.
Some members may not have the money to donate. You mention a $1.13, for someone out of work, even that small amount may not be possible. That's why I try to be as "gentle" when asking for donations. Yes, we need the funds to keep the forum here, but I also don't want other to feel guilty for not donating, especially if they can't.
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So we have to call on those of us who are still active to contribute to the forum if you still want a place to post.
Thanks for answering Chuck! But it sounded like if we don't cough up, we won't have a place to post! :D
I can see how money may be tight for people, but I can't see it being that tight - a dollar a month... if you have a computer and the internet, you have a dollar a month.
Not even the price of a coffee...
Anyway good luck and I really had no idea we only had about 30 active members, long way from 6,000 plus..
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Very true, Bubba, as you said, not even the price of a coffee for you.....so??
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Why is there no permanent link to TDS at the top of the page as there used to be? It just seems to appear randomly when you renew the page, quite frustrating when you want to go there quickly. In my bleary early morning state it took me quite a long time to work out how to do it through the menu... :D
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I really do want to make a contribution to the forum, but this time it's PayPal that has slowed me down. I would rather give a small regular amount every month, and I know this is possible as a 'recurring payment' as I've done it before, but I just cannot find out how to do it this time.
Oh well, you'll get it in the end!
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30 active members sounds about right.
Only 30? :'( I thought it was a lot more. A lot. Where did everyone go? ;)
OK, seriously. In all honesty, I think the "re-do" of the forum didn't do a lot of good. People were used to a certain lay-out, colours, fonts, you name it. And suddenly it's changed and... It seems to me that a lot of people left after the forum update and never came back.
I can't imagine with the daily regulars that are on here every single day, that it would be a big issue.
I had been wondering about the same thing, Bubba - but I had no idea we have only 30 active members :( That may not be enough to keep the forum going.
I donated $15 last November - so that's (roughly) $1 per month over a 12-month period. I hadn't planned on donating again until November 2016, to be honest. A monthly small amount is too much of a hassle for me, I'm sorry - and I don't see how a monthly amount is so different from one larger amount a year. It's all money.
Also, someone from Europe may wish to donate, but doesn't use PayPal. Cheques won't work, because of the currency (Euros, Pounds, whatever)...
*thinks* Boy, I'd hate to lose this place :-\
What happens if the money runs out? Will the forum close down or will it still be online, as "read-only", so it can still be used for reference, for instance? We won't be able to post, but there such a lot of information on here - it would be such a shame to let it go. All those years of dedication from everyone involved...
Isn't there another way? A cheaper way? So many people are blogging all over the place, have their own websites and all. I can't imagine they all pay a monthly fee - or do they? Isn't there such a thing as "free hosting", which uses ads to cover costs? I don't know how these things work, and maybe you've looked into it already, but...
Questions, guestions...
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Very true, Bubba, as you said, not even the price of a coffee for you.....so??
Well seen as I have been made to feel sooooooooooo welcome around here, maybe I should pay the whole thing! 8) I don't think you have ever answered/responded to a single post of mine.
I have to agree with Jeannie though, if there are only 30 active members there has to be an easier way.
I have a board of my own and I don't pay any fees, I have a friend who blogs and she makes money, quite a bit of money actually.
And Jeannie if you donated what would amount to a years worth already, why would you donate again, while some regulars are obviously not donating at all, that hardly seems fair.
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Sonja, I just thought that if a couple of dollars a month went out automatically, a. I wouldn't have to think about it, and b. the administrators would know that they could expect a certain amount each month from those involved. Though I too felt that my donation last November was intended for the year - I'd consider what to do next after that.
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Sonja, I just thought that if a couple of dollars a month went I automatically, a. I wouldn't have to think about it, and b. the administrators would know that they could expect a certain amount each month from those involved.
OK, that makes sense. But...
Though I also felt that my donation last November was intended for the year - I'd consider what to do next after that.
Exactly.
What if I donated another $15 right now, just to keep the forum going. Then I would've paid for one month worth of fees. One month which I paid for. It's not so much the money, but where does it end? And it doesn't change the fact that there's not enough money coming in on a regular basis.
I'm not blaming anyone - just stating a fact. And I wouldn't know how to solve this problem.
And Jeannie if you donated what would amount to a years worth already, why would you donate again, while some regulars are obviously not donating at all, that hardly seems fair.
I don't know why they're not donating, Bubba - it could be a number of reasons. But I'm actually quite sad that so few people are willing (or able?) to make a donation to this wonderful forum.
I've never met any of you in real life - but I have "met" some wonderful, lovely, funny and generous people in particular threads (you know who you are!) who I love to "talk" to - and I'd miss them if the forum was to close down. Not everyone is on Facebook.
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OK, that makes sense. But...
Exactly.
What if I donated another $15 right now, just to keep the forum going. Then I would've paid for one month worth of fees. One month which I paid for. It's not so much the money, but where does it end? And it doesn't change the fact that there's not enough money coming in on a regular basis.
I'm not blaming anyone - just stating a fact. And I wouldn't know how to solve this problem.
I don't know why they're not donating, Bubba - it could be a number of reasons. But I'm actually quite sad that so few people are willing (or able?) to make a donation to this wonderful forum.
I've never met any of you in real life - but I have "met" some wonderful, lovely, funny and generous people in particular threads (you know who you are!) who I love to "talk" to - and I'd miss them if the forum was to close down. Not everyone is on Facebook.
I REEEEALLY don't want this Forum to bite the dust. As with you jeannie...I have "met" ...for real and on line some fabulous friends....some not so fabulous !! No names.....no pack drill !!!!!
I offered to send cheques when donations were first asked for but was told it would be to difficult to change ££ to $$. I have asked Linda for suggestions. Not keen on PayPal.....so we will see what can be sorted out. Whats wrong with putting a few $$ notes in a envelope ....like granny used to ?? :D :D
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I have "met" ...for real and on line some fabulous friends....some not so fabulous !!
:laugh: Who are they? The "not so fabulous" ones? I want names! I'm actually curious now ;) :laugh:
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^^^^
Some you would think "well that's obvious"...others you would think "reeeally"?? :o
:D
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. Whats wrong with putting a few $$ notes in a envelope ....like granny used to ?? :D :D
Oh heck don't do that, it will be nipped by the post office! I am actually not comfortable sending money at all, there is just no system here, it's just random donations......and as we can clearly see (by funds running out already) that is not working.
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[...] ... there is just no system here, it's just random donations......and as we can clearly see (by funds running out already) that is not working.
No, it's not working. Random donations never work. Many people will think: "Oh, someone else will donate", or they just forget about it - and yes, then the money "dries up", so to speak. But I wouldn't know how to solve it.
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You can hear the crickets chirping in here now...........a few of us are talking in PM and we are wondering if we are expected to donate, what the plan is, so that we don't end up in the same position??
8)
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donations are meant to be kept private, but I can tell you that since the post went up about "passing the plate" I've had 6 donations given to me that will carry the forum through the beginning of 2017.
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donations are meant to be kept private, but I can tell you that since the post went up about "passing the plate" I've had 6 donations given to me that will carry the forum through the beginning of 2017.
Well that's great, crisis averted for now and thank you to those 6 people! :-*
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donations are meant to be kept private, but I can tell you that since the post went up about "passing the plate" I've had 6 donations given to me that will carry the forum through the beginning of 2017.
That's great, Chuck! Thanks for the update.
I understand about the privacy, but I used my donation as an example - not to upset or judge anyone. Whether or not people would want to donate is their own choice, of course.
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Well that's great, crisis averted for now and thank you to those 6 people! :-*
and that's why I didn't want to post that information. Anyone who was still thinking of donating, should still do it, no matter what the amount. I didn't want people to say, "oh well, he's got enough now" and stop donating until we need it again, which then starts this discussion again.
If 8 more people were to donate a one-month amount of $34.00, we won't need to ask for donations again until the end 2017.
when I make a post about fundraising, we still have a surplus of funds, so the forum wasn't going to disappear within a few days.
Oh, and just to be clear, I'm not angry with anyone who posts about the fundraising, or wants to make a statement about what they donated. I just work on the assumption that most people want that matter to be private, so I don't discuss it.
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when I make a post about fundraising, we still have a surplus of funds, so the forum wasn't going to disappear within a few days.
And is that what would happen? I mean would David just let it go? Honestly I would check into other options, just in case everyone isn't always so generous..
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Oh heck don't do that, it will be nipped by the post office! I am actually not comfortable sending money at all, there is just no system here, it's just random donations......and as we can clearly see (by funds running out already) that is not working.
You are really confusing me here.
You are urging people not to send money through the mail, even though a check is perfectly safe and mail theft is rare.
PayPal is also perfectly safe.
You refuse to donate yourself, even though you spend a lot of time on the forum, yet you are pm- ing with other people about what should be done to finance the forum. If you don't want to donate, why are you so interested?
I think the system of asking people for donations is working fine. I see no crisis.
What you said earlier is true, if everyone chipped in a few bucks a month, there would be no issues.
It' s always easier to sit on the sidelines and kvetch at the people who are actually doing the work, than to take action yourself.
All these "yes, buts..." are just chipping away at the work Chuck and Linda are doing to keep the forum alive for all of us.
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You are really confusing me here.
You are urging people not to send money through the mail, even though a check is perfectly safe and mail theft is rare.
first lets get our facts straight:
Whats wrong with putting a few $$ notes in a envelope ....like granny used to ?? :D :D
I replied to putting CASH in the mail, it is not safe, not sure where you live, but mail theft is common place, I don't know anyone who would put money in the mail anymore ..... a cheque, sure..
And the system isn't working fine, that is why people who paid......and thought they were paid up until the end of the year (or whatever) were surprised to find they weren't.
Anywhoo I have said all I have to say on the subject!! 8)
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^^^
How about a cheque from the UK that is in ££'s ?
I was told it is too difficult to process into $$'s.
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Sue, since I work for a bank, I can find out what the process is. I do know the funds wouldn't be readily available as they'd have to be converted.
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Just let me know the workings Chuck. I have money here for you !!!! :laugh:
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Oh, and I didn't even have to dance from the pole for it!
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(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lyJwqxYGLpI/maxresdefault.jpg)
you can delete if inappropriate for the thread :D
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I should be so thin!!!
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I didn't want people to say, "oh well, he's got enough now" and stop donating until we need it again, which then starts this discussion again.
"oh well, he's got enough now" :laugh: :laugh: Yes, you have! ;D So maybe it's a good thing we were having this discussion.
I have thought about deleting some of my posts, or edit them - but I won't. I still don't think the "random donations" thing is the best way to handle the financial part of the forum, but since this is the chosen way to do it, we'll have to make the best of it. I was just pointing out some other possibilities, and so was Bubba - so maybe it's worth considering them in the future.
I think the system of asking people for donations is working fine. I see no crisis.
I saw it! :laugh:
All these "yes, buts..." are just chipping away at the work Chuck and Linda are doing to keep the forum alive for all of us.
Again, we were just discussing other possibilities - a different hosting service, some other way of setting it up... I don't know. There's nothing wrong with throwing in some ideas for the future of the forum.
I have run a forum myself in the past, so I know how much work it is and how ungrateful the work can be sometimes, and also how hard it is to keep it going - so no disrespect there.
By being here and posting and hopefully donating (!!!!!) we're ALL keeping the forum alive, I think 8)
And that's my final word on it. Peace, guys :D
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By being here and posting and hopefully donating (!!!!!) we're ALL keeping the forum alive, I think 8)
And that's my final word on it. Peace, guys :D
And a perfect way to end it, I think we should get a bit of credit for posting, for starting threads and "answering people's threads" for keeping this forum going...
:D
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I was happy to donate, especially since I post so many pics of Emmett, he has become an internet sensation here (that’s what I tell him).
And I was taught, whenever possible, to donate to good causes, and to help the poor, downtrodden, hopeless or pathetic in our midst. It’s a good feeling to help the forum go on, and to enable others who are in dire circumstances (or even just freeloaders, leeches and moochers) to continue to express their opinions, no matter how twisted those opinions are or how distasteful they may be to me.
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"oh well, he's got enough now" :laugh: :laugh: Yes, you have! ;D So maybe it's a good thing we were having this discussion.
I have thought about deleting some of my posts, or edit them - but I won't.
For the record, I don't see any reason for you to delete/edit any of your posts.
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For the record, I don't see any reason for you to delete/edit any of your posts.
OK, good :)
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^^^
How about a cheque from the UK that is in ££'s ?
I was told it is too difficult to process into $$'s.
Hello Suely!
Anyone who was thinking of sending a check in a foreign currency, DO NOT!
I was looking up the policy for a depositor to take a foreign check, and it turns out the bank won't do it unless the check is at least the equivilent of $250.00. THe reason being is that a lot of fees to associated with sending the check through collections, that if the check is of a small domination, the fees will "eat up" what the check is actually worth,, and then you would've sent a check that would end up being worth %0
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It's so great to have a black gay senior class president at West Point! And all the haters can do is steam.
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Re: the article about the Padres and the Gay Chorus incident:
Something doesn't sound quite right here. Obviously a mistake was made and it
wasn't handled very well. The Perez Hilton site has a video of them performing
last year at the first ever Out at the Park event and nothing seemed to have gone
wrong:
From the Perez site:
Hmm…
For what it's worth, the chorus DID perform at a Padres game last summer at the team's first ever Pride Night, and it appears everything went off without a hitch (see video).
So the reaction from the chorus seems a bit weird, I don't know.
The part about the Padres wanting them to buy tickets for the game,
whether or not they were going to stay, is something that sounds wrong,
that shouldn't be the case, so I'm not sure what is actually going on here.
(I have to admit that someone in the crowd saying, "You sing like a girl,"
when the tape of women singing got played, though, sounds like something
I myself would yell out!)
Maybe it's a case of making some publicity out of a bad situation, I don't know,
but it's weird and I wish the DOdgers hadn't been there that night. At least they'll
know to act properly (heh!) when the L.A. Out at the Park happens nect month!
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The gay website OutSports has this to say: (from The Advocate)
Cyd Zeigler, the cofounder of Outsports, believes the Padres' side of the story. He points out that the male chorus was supposed to sing to a prerecorded track, which may explain the mistake.
"This is not homophobia," Zeigler tells The Advocate. "What the chorus hasn't told you is that one of the guys who runs the whole in-game experience was out that night because of a car accident. The Padres have been very, very good on LGBT issues." The San Diego team hosted one of Major League Baseball's first Pride games.
As far as why the incorrect tape wasn't stopped, Zeigler says, "That's the ultimate question, and the Padres don't have a good answer. Maybe it's because it's [on] TV."
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I'm inclined to believe the DJ that it was an honest mistake, though I'd certainly want to check his past and future actions to see if there has been any pattern.
The club handled the explanation quite poorly, though.
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Apparently the DJ was fired over this, and the chorus is asking the Padres to give him his job back.
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It would be charitable for the club to give him his job back, and the chorus comes off looking much more forgiving. But I'd still keep an eye on the DJ's future actions.
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Having not been on the forum for a few weeks, I come back here and am truly amazed at the donation discussion that's been going on.
I can't see what the problem is?
If you can't afford to donate - don't donate. No one has asked that of you.
If you can afford to donate but don't want to for whatever reason - don't donate and keep on freeloading as much as your conscience allows.
The rest of us will donate as much as we can afford and see fit. I'm sure peope will step up if there ever were a crisis and the forum was in danger of shutting down.
Personally, I donated in cash last October when I met Chuck in Arizona. The sum was meant to last for a while, for myself and some other forum member who may not be able to afford it. If the forum is ever short of money, I will happily donate again, probably through PayPal.
I was about to find out how PayPal works, but after my hiatus I found that others have already donated to last for now.
DCF has been such an important part of my life for years, it goes without saying that a couple of donations now and then is a small price to pay to keep it going.
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Thanks Sonja!! Very well said!!
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Just to confirm, we had a great response to the last round of requests.
KillersMom will be posting the statement once my bank has it ready, but we've raised enough funds to keep the forum up to January or February of 2018. So, for the rest of this year, and most of next year, we won't need to ask for funds.
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Having not been on the forum for a few weeks, I come back here and am truly amazed at the donation discussion that's been going on.
I can't see what the problem is?
If you can't afford to donate - don't donate. No one has asked that of you.
If you can afford to donate but don't want to for whatever reason - don't donate and keep on freeloading as much as your conscience allows.
The rest of us will donate as much as we can afford and see fit. I'm sure peope will step up if there ever were a crisis and the forum was in danger of shutting down.
Personally, I donated in cash last October when I met Chuck in Arizona. The sum was meant to last for a while, for myself and some other forum member who may not be able to afford it. If the forum is ever short of money, I will happily donate again, probably through PayPal.
I was about to find out how PayPal works, but after my hiatus I found that others have already donated to last for now.
DCF has been such an important part of my life for years, it goes without saying that a couple of donations now and then is a small price to pay to keep it going.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ce/e2/48/cee248405a0ba4350d6f3af59c59dde3.jpg)
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Thanks Sonja!! Very well said!!
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ce/e2/48/cee248405a0ba4350d6f3af59c59dde3.jpg)
:) :)
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Just to confirm, we had a great response to the last round of requests.
KillersMom will be posting the statement once my bank has it ready, but we've raised enough funds to keep the forum up to January or February of 2018. So, for the rest of this year, and most of next year, we won't need to ask for funds.
That's the true Brokie spirit!
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Hello TDS readers!
Just a quick post to let you know there will be no TDS this week. I had way too much going on this weekend to even get one started.
We'll be back on 06/21
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Take your time, Chuckie!
We very much appreciate the work you do!
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I think if you can afford to donate and don't and just keep kvetching, it might be better to just stop talking about it.
There are always a dozen reasons not to do the right thing.
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That's the true Brokie spirit!
That's wonderful
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:)
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For tomorrow.. my calendar's reminder --> Filming began on Brokeback Mountain - 14 Jun 2004 V.
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To Be Outed in the Worst Possible Way
Worst...Because you can't move on from there.
A lesson for those still IN.
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Just to confirm, we had a great response to the last round of requests.
KillersMom will be posting the statement once my bank has it ready, but we've raised enough funds to keep the forum up to January or February of 2018. So, for the rest of this year, and most of next year, we won't need to ask for funds.
Well done, everyone. Thanks.
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To Be Outed in the Worst Possible Way
Worst...Because you can't move on from there.
A lesson for those still IN.
I would certainly not want to die that way.
Linda linked me to a great WSJ article this weekend, where they actually found lots of the people in hiding. Sad stuff.
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I would certainly not want to die that way.
Linda linked me to a great WSJ article this weekend, where they actually found lots of the people in hiding. Sad stuff.
Linda sent me the same article as well, but when I tried to read it, it said I needed to subscribe to the WSJ to continue reading.
I managed to find a similar article to use instead, because I felt the topic was important and could bring out some discussion.
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Really, as a fan of the National Parks for as long as I can remember (I once dreamed of becoming a Park Ranger), it's truly astonishing that we now have our own historical monument.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/a-quiet-campaign-is-placing-gay-people-and-their-rights-struggle-in-us-history/2016/06/26/ece05a46-0bd0-11e6-bfa1-4efa856caf2a_story.html
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It is really great that this has happened, Fritz!! ♥
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Three, post 1 of 2
The movie Three begins in London, in the apartment of Americans John, Gary and Kris. There are a series of short interviews with each of them, as they explain how they got together. About :15 minutes into the video, the action changes as the three drive to Heathrow Airport to welcome their dear friend and mentor, photographer Howard Roffman.
Roffman has come to make still photos for his new book, and also to video record the reunion. Halfway into the video, we actually get to watch him photograph Kris. (I suspect you will be impressed.) Later we will see clips of all three of them. These are interspersed with short scenes of their daily routine, joking, teasing, cooking, bathing, quiet banter, bedtime -- and telling how they feel about each other and their arrangement.
They love each other. It's as simple as that. Menage a trois are automatically difficult, and so is theirs. But they talk about it, and voice their fears. They are honest, but they also honestly feel love as they work their way through the problems.
At the end of his visit, they have a Farewell dinner for Howard, and he returns to the U.S. Later, when he puts the video together, he finishes it with a cornucopia of brilliant clips, showing the boys' love, their passion and the beauty of caring.
* * *
While the video portraits are beautiful, the story is too, but you have to understand the dialog to truly appreciate it. (I read that even the Russian translation gets it all wrong.)
Now I want to ask for some help. I'll do so in Three, post 2 of 2
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Three, post 2 of 2
I have the original DVD, and would love to upload it to youtube, but I certainly don't want to jump into legal chaos. I know this much: To legally upload copyrighted material, one must get permission from the copyright owner. And so I began my search for the current owner...
The DVD itself identifies "10% Productions" of Los Angeles as the copyright owner at the time of production, 1997. (Greg Nimer was the CEO.)
In 2002, Village Lighthouse sued 10% Productions for fraudulent loans:
http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/2sdf4wltw/superior-court-of-california-county-of-los-angeles/ronald-m-miller-v-greg-nimer/ (http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/2sdf4wltw/superior-court-of-california-county-of-los-angeles/ronald-m-miller-v-greg-nimer/)
(It was subsequently dismissed on 01/31/2003.)
On June 10, 2003, 10% conveyed to Village Lighthouse the "entire interest and goodwill" of 10% Productions' Trademark.
http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/assignment-tm-4164-0701.pdf (http://assignments.uspto.gov/assignments/assignment-tm-4164-0701.pdf)
(Please read the Transfer Statement, page 2.)
I am not a lawyer, and honestly I don't know the implication of these actions. Does it mean that VL became owner of all the assets of 10%? Did they become the copyright owner of the DVD Three?
Even if that is the case, I realize that VL could have sold/transferred ownership later. But at least they might be a starting point in searching for the current owner. Someone still owns the copyright.
Does anyone in DCF have experience in these legal matters? If so, could you suggest how I should proceed in trying to find the current owner?
~~~fia
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Pence doesn't scare GOP gays because they all think that they'll receive first places in his Kingdom. They're quite delusional.
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Pence doesn't scare GOP gays because they all think that they'll receive first places in his Kingdom. They're quite delusional.
He's already responsible for some of the most bigoted "rigorous freedom" laws in the country... make no mistake... he's about as anti-LBGT as it comes hiding behind his "religious rights". V.
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I saw "Indignation" on Sunday afternoon at the International Film Festival in Dunedin. I was surprised to see it had not been mentioned here after I discovered the producer was the same as for BBM. It was very confronting and I "enjoyed" it although I felt quite stunned at the end.
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David Harbour is so handsome with a beard, but in the pictures I've seen him in without, meh.
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Fritz, did you read the part about maybe being a sex symbol in the bear community?
Well, you’re bound to become a sex symbol in the bear community.
I’m a bear, huh? That’s nice. I like that.
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David Harbour (yay, English spelling :D) starts off in Stranger Things as rather unsympathetic, but soon turns into the good sheriff, and an interesting character.
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Fritz, did you read the part about maybe being a sex symbol in the bear community?
Well, you’re bound to become a sex symbol in the bear community.
I’m a bear, huh? That’s nice. I like that.
Yes, I did! And he is!
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Geaux Sparky!
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Hadn't heard about the initiative to host lone soldiers for the holidays in Israel. Very impressive!
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Yes, Fritz. Isn't this great??
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Israelis in general care a lot about their soldiers.
People often give them rides and such.
In fact, one tactic the terrorists have been using, is to dress up in uniform and go hitchhiking with the soldiers. When they get a ride they kill the driver >:( :( :'(
When my brother was a lone soldier he was invited home to one of his comrade's family for the holidays.
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Yes, I saw many soldiers hitching in northern Israel, not far from Haifa.
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Yes, they do it all the time. Or take the bus.
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And they were so gorgeous!
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Oh yeah! :D
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People often give them rides and such.
Yes, I saw many soldiers hitching in northern Israel, not far from Haifa.
Apparently, this happened in the US too. I have a friend and her name is Tina Laraine. Her father was in the Navy in world war 2, and he often told the story of hitch-hiking, and a large car pulled over, and offered him a ride. He got in, and found himself next to MGM actress Laraine Day. She was a very active actress, starring in films from 1938 through 1960.
To honor her, and the ride she had given him, he named his last daughter Tina Laraine, using her unusual spelling.
When Tina's dad was sick with cancer, she took the time to track down and write to Laraine Day. In the letter she told Ms. Day about her father's story, and how he named her Tina Laraine, after her.
She didn't expect an answer, but a few months later, an autographed picture of Laraine Day arrived, along with a hand written letter. In the letter, Ms. Day stated she could not specifically remember Tina's dad, however, she always gave rides to servicemen in need, so there was no doubt in her mind that her father was actually in her car.
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The problem with the Billy Flynn movie is that all of the attention it's going to get is because of
the new, or newer, technology involved in it's filmmaking, but: "Few theaters around the U.S. will
have the capacity to show “Billy Lynn” in its native format."
I also didn't understand this about the film's "native format", which is: 3D at 4K resolution and 120 frames per second for each eye.
"For each eye?" ???
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I liked the Rolling Stone article linked in TDS about gay identity being strengthened by exclusion from
the military. There was some interesting things I had not come across before. They mention a 1947
Newsweek article that they've linked within and I read it. It's supposedly some general characteristics
about gay people gleaned from statistics of military discharges from WWII. Some assumptions seem
true, but others seem wildly fanciful. It also says that to screen out possible gays from the military that
psychiatrists in induction-station interviews would try to detect them "by repeating certain words from
the homosexual vocabulary and watching for signs of recognition." I wonder what words those were
and how exactly that was done. I've spent some time here thinking up several very comical sketches
based on this idea!
I liked the Rolling Stone article linked in TDS about gay identity being strengthened by exclusion from
the military. There was some interesting things I had not come across before. They mention a 1947
Newsweek article that they've linked within and I read it. It's supposedly some general characteristics
about gay people gleaned from statistics of military discharges from WWII. Some assumptions seem
true, but others seem wildly fanciful. It also says that to screen out possible gays from the military that
psychiatrists in induction-station interviews would try to detect them "by repeating certain words from
the homosexual vocabulary and watching for signs of recognition." I wonder what words those were
and how exactly that was done. I've spent some time here thinking up several very comical sketches
based on this idea!
_________________________
;D ;D
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I'm looking forward to reading the Rolling Stone article. Sounds quite fascinating!
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Individual gay zillionaires may be supporting T, but the Log Cabin Republican group has withheld their support.
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He also helped start PayPal with Elon Musk. Peter Thiel's also the guy who secretly
funded Hulk Hogan's lawsuit against Gawker which helped to bring down that news
site. He was peeved at Gawker for, he claims, outing him and sought revenge on them.
Does that action in any way remind you of the candidate he's supporting?
It's one thing to support a Republican candidate, but supporting Donald Trump is
a whole other kettle of fish. Thiel has told friends that Donald Trump told him he
would nominate him for the Supreme Court if elected.
From HuffPo:
It’s not clear whether Trump has indeed offered to nominate Thiel ― only that Thiel has said Trump would nominate him and that Trump’s team has discussed Thiel as a possible nominee. Both sources requested anonymity, given that Trump and Thiel have each demonstrated a willingness to seek revenge against parties they feel have wronged them. In Thiel’s case, he secretly financed lawsuits against Gawker.com with the intention of destroying the publication. He succeeded, and his role in the assault was only revealed in the final stages.
Having a lot of money does not mean you are intelligent, smart, moral or anything else in particular.
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Is that ever for sure.
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Hiya DCFERS!
Been super busy this weekend with shopping and baking, so I wasn't able to get TDS done.
It will return after a week's "vacation".
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Thanks for all you do, Chuck!
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No problem! Thanks Chuck!!
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(https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi327.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk463%2Fdcfmod%2Fwere%2520moving.jpg&hash=8442f4cd686104f27f4cb22f9c3658f8d258bdce)
Hello members!!!! The Admin/Mod/Tech team is coming to you with news for the new year.
When this forum was originally founded, it was under the URL we all know, www.DaveCullen.com, however, it was often referred to as the "Ultimate Brokeback Forum". Dave's website had a link to the forum, and the two entities were joined as one.
For a host of technical reasons beyond Dave’s technical ability, he needs to turn his website over to a service that can handle much of the work—and it can’t support the massive forum database. Dave really wants the forum to proceed, so the solution is simple: just split Dave’s personal pages and the forum to two separate web addresses. Everything else remains the same.
To continue to follow Dave Cullen, you can use the existing address, www.DaveCullen.com .
To access the Ultimate Brokeback Forum, you will need to bookmark this new address: https://www.UltimateBrokebackForum.com/forum.
We expect this change to take place within a week's time, and there should be no major disruption to the forum. While the UBF will no longer be linked to DCF, Dave Cullen will retain his ownership of both sites.
Please continue to watch the threads/newsbox for further updates! We will attempt to give you all 24 hours notice before the change takes place. However, you should make note of the new address now. If you try to log in at the old address and you are unable to, try to use the new address. Thanks for your continued participation in this community!
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NOTICE FOR DOMAIN MOVE:
We are waiting on a few technical confirmations from the hosting company, but hope to initiate the move within 24 -36 hours.
If you have not bookmarked or written down the new URL, please do so before the change over.
https://www.ultimatebrokebackforum.com/forum
FYI from Dave: We initially put capital letters in UltimateBrokebackForum for readability, but it makes no difference. You save yourself the shift key if you like.
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Hi members. Hopefully this will go smoothly and be nearly "invisible to the user." In theory, it should be, aside from a new bookmark and a short outage, but all things technical are unpredictable. We think we've thought of everything, but we'll find out soon--and address it if not. Sorry about the disruption. We probably should have done this 8-10 years ago, or maybe from the start, but I sure did not foresee these 11 years. I sure have enjoyed them, though.
Happy posting.
Please thank Neil/Naxman for doing all the work when you see him.
NOTICE FOR DOMAIN MOVE:
We are waiting on a few technical confirmations from the hosting company, but hope to initiate the move within 24 -36 hours.
If you have not bookmarked or written down the new URL, please do so before the change over.
https://www.ultimatebrokebackforum.com/forum
FYI from Dave: We initially put capital letters in UltimateBrokebackForum for readability, but it makes no difference. You save yourself the shift key if you like.
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We have initiated the move just now.
Everyone should be here within 48 hours, but usually much faster.
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In the course of the conversion to our new home, we discovered a rare but permanent issue with certain links within the forum. Any post that contains a user-generated link to a post or thread within the forum is going to be broken--though easily fixable on an individual basis.
It seems to be limited mainly to old TDS issues (which Linda is fixing), and slash author links (which Donna is fixing). Those were a lot of links to fix, but they are mostly done (Thank you both!), so it should be fairly rare. We just want you to be aware so that you understand when it comes up, and can easily deal with it.
The error:
The link will be the OLD format below, when it should be the NEW:
OLD: http://davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=48378.msg2648929#msg2648929
NEW: http://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=48378.msg2648929#msg2648929
Everything non-red is exactly the same. (And I only made it red here to illustrate. It won't be red in real life.)
To fix it:
If you click on one of these old links and want to get to the right page: Make the same swap in your address bar (red OLD for NEW), hit enter again, and you'll get to the right page. (When you first click on the bad link, your screen will display what we're calling the forum landing page at davecullen.com, which says we've moved--because it sees a bad address and tries to get you to the closest thing at davecullen.com. But the full address to the page you're looking for will be up there in the address bar, just with that bad segment. So swap it out, and you're on your way.)
Not affected:
1. Any posts created after the move. So you'll notice this less and less over time, unless you take a deep dive into our old history.
2. System-links (the vast majority of links. The system corrected all the myriad links it created and maintains to let you navigate, like the link from one page to the next of a thread, from a topic page to the threads, and to user profiles and so forth. All of that works fine.
Misc:
Any links hand-created by a mod will be wrong and can't be globally fixed without inviting catastrophe. (It's possible to attempt a global fix, but this endangers corrupting the forum data and we don't want to take that chance.) The most common example is when a popular thread like The Diner fills up with 500 posts, the mod creates a new thread, links to it in the final post and then closes down the old thread. So if you wander back through old threads, keep in mind the simple work-around above.
Sorry about this situation. It looks to be pretty rare that it will actually affect anyone.
Let a mod know if you encounter other situations with it, or issues.
And other than that, let us know how the move went. It looks good from my vantage point, but I'm sure I'm not objective. Happy posting.
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During Future technical issues: Check the landing page at:
davecullen.com/forum
In the past, we've had occasional technical issues bringing the site down, and could not communicate with you then, because when the forum database crashed, it took my site down with it. (Which was actually a major problem for me professionally sometimes. It also knocked my email address out without me knowing it at other times, which was far worse.) Linda got to many of you on a popular FB page, but not everyone is on FB, or knows the page. Now we have an independent site, so if there are ever issues bringing the forum down, check in there.
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Re: Why Bisexual Men Are Still Fighting to Convince Us They Exist
Pete Gardner, a character on Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, comes out to his office staff
on the show and sings this song: "Getting Bi."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUDab9piv_U
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Hiya TDS readers!
Photobucket is down, so I can't put any pics up with TDS, so we're taking a brief vacation, and will return next week.
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Ah, that explains things on photo captioning.
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People like Yiannopoulos always think that they're invulnerable until the very end.
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I was thinking the same thing, Fritz. He thinks he is invulnerable, but this has proven not to be the case. I can't think of a more deserving person.
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Well I saw Brokeback (obviously) and did see Moonlight and really enjoyed it, but never even thought about Brokeback while watching Moonlight.
I actually googled that to see if there were any other articles comparing the two and got a kick out of some of the feedback.
With one person saying "La La Land is the gayer film between it and Moonlight" and with many agreeing and apparently La La Land is very popular with the gay community.
Will be interesting to see how Moonlight does come Oscar time..
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...
Will be interesting to see how Moonlight does come Oscar time..
INDEED! it certainly deserves some wins, after all those nominations.
i hope it takes every one home...
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INDEED! it certainly deserves some wins, after all those nominations.
i hope it takes every one home...
We will see. My gut and fear is we will see another repeat of 2005's debacle. However, with the ousting of some of the older, non-participating academy members and the nasty little "all-white" awards last year, I have my fingers crossed the new members will "do the right thing..." this time. V.
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I'm rooting for La La Land.
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I am not hoping for a sweep this year, not for Moonlight or La La Land. There were so many good films and good performances, I hope it gets broken up. But I bet La La Land does win best picture..
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We will see. My gut and fear is we will see another repeat of 2005's debacle. However, with the ousting of some of the older, non-participating academy members and the nasty little "all-white" awards last year, I have my fingers crossed the new members will "do the right thing..." this time. V.
that's exactly why the show fails for me. the notion that they would have to make up for past "mistakes" or manipulate audiences (and filmmakers) by orchestrating the results.
i'm happy about all the wins for MOONLIGHT tho. well deserved.
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I bet La La Land does win best picture..
Now we know the answer. ;)
(Sort of it did...)
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Was "Moonlight's" Win an Antidote for Brokeback's Snub?
http://www.scmp.com/culture/film-tv/article/2074766/was-moonlights-best-picture-win-perfect-antidote-brokeback-mountains
No.
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Geaux David Strachan!
And I guess it was just the luck of the draw, but I'm a bit surprised it took the Canadian Navy so long to have two guys as the first return to port kiss! Both the US and Canada had the first same-sex couple women kiss.
The US Navy had its first male kiss back in 2015.
Better late than never!
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Of course sexuality is infinitely complex, but I've never really understood why some people find it so difficult to comprehend bisexuality.
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Of course sexuality is infinitely complex, but I've never really understood why some people find it so difficult to comprehend bisexuality.
I try but I guess it comes from growing up in a time when homosexuality was illegal and had to be hidden. I was often propositioned by married guys and remember clearly when one asked why I would not meet him again (secretly out of our area as he was Principal of the local High School). He had a married life with 2 sons. I would have given anything to be able to have that sort of life but I must be about 95% homosexual. He said "You say you are lonely yet do not want to meet." I had to go out alone and was just expected to meet him secretly for sex. I felt if I was in a married life, acceptable to society, with companionship and a family and presumably getting some sex, I would be happy. Still today when I get online messages from guys stating they are bi and often married I just say "Sorry but no thanks".
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being married and wanting/needing sex with men doesn't equal bisexuality, does it? Seems more like the Ennis syndrome.
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An interview with David.
http://interactadvocates.org/a-conversation-with-david-strachan-intersex-and-non-binary-pioneer/
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Re: The OutVets article.
I never heard of a St. Patrick's Day Parade being held on March 19th.
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The one in Alexandria VA was held on March 4! ;D
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Really? Strange. Don't dates...anniversaries...history...matter any more?
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Apparently not! I know in Alex it has to be on a weekend, and I think the city had something else planned on the two bookend weekends surrounding the day.
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My diary says the actual St Patrick's Day is March 17th.
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That would be correct.
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which is why a Cardinal somewhere issued a decree that Irish people would be able to eat meat on Friday even though it's Lent, as Friday is St. Patrick's Day.
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Our bishop has done the same.
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Bro Comedies Making Fun of Gay Men
This article topic is always interesting, largely because it's in the eye of the beholder,
it's not easy to explain, often misunderstood and, as the title of a Steve Martin album
proclaims, "Comedy is Not Pretty."
A lot of comedy is based on stereotypes. It always has been. Someone once advised to
not take something personal, unless it is. Comedy is not offensive, in and of itself, it's what
someone brings to it.
Personally, I'd rather see people laughing at anything than not. Someone genuinely laughing is
not a threat.
The age old joke of someone slipping on a banana peel is actually based on someone else's pain
and misfortune or happenstance.
There are several comedians like Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock who have stopped doing their comedy
acts at colleges and universities because the internet/media generation has come to judge every little
thing as being appropriate or not. It's almost like they're afraid to laugh at anything without being called
out on it in some way, without being sure it's not going to offend anyone first. I'll give them a clue: there
is someone somewhere who will find something offensive. There are people out there willing to tell you
that almost everything you've ever laughed at is offensive in one way or another to someone.
I forget why this ever happened, but do you remember when President George H. W. Bush one time
came out and expounded on his hatred of broccoli, a vegetable he never liked, and he adamantly put
it into words? I thought that was quite amusing because we all have something like that we do not
like to eat. Then there were people criticizing him for doing that, saying the President shouldn't give
permission to children to hate all vegetables etc.
So, is the fact that the two straight CHiP's officers in this film being discussed are finding discomfort in things
gay men would not be, is that offensive or is it amusing to watch straight dudes in such a situation without judging
them for it? Is it making fun of Gay Men or of the Straight Men's discomfort? Is it the context of how that's presented
or inherently one way or the other?
There is a learning aspect not always apparent in humor. (The old adage: There is truth in humor.) So, we may
laugh at something one time and not another. There's a reason why "adolescent humor" is a phrase we've all
heard before. Humor is a learning tool. So I say, don't worry too much about what people are laughing about
(not to be confused with "making fun of") and just be happy when people are laughing.
It's always seemed to me that the most enlightened people have a good, if not great, sense of humor, and who
is one of the least enlightened people in the news now who exhibits none of that? Take a guess.
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I totally agree with you Lyle. Comedy is comedy, you will always offend "someone". People need to lighten up and laugh a little more.. and not always worry about being so politically correct all the time.
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Examining the Issue of Bisexual Visibility
This article is interesting because I am not sure how bisexual
people want to see themselves portrayed in art. Mostly, if any
characters in a film or tv series have a relationship, they have
them one at a time. So, I can't imagine, for instance, you'd have
a bisexual character in a relationship, let's say a woman in this
case, and then do they keep bringing up that they are also interested
in men? Is that fair to the partner they're in a relationship with? That
would be telling them that they aren't satisfied with that person alone.
The article has a 12 minute video where the guy talks about bi representation,
but all he talks about is that. HOW is not discussed. What h does discuss is that
almost any way someone would want to portray bi people is probably incorrect
because one thing doesn't necessarily mean another.
I looked at another couple videos this guy has made and he is quite adept at pointing
out why everything that is or should include bi representation isn't correct. I come
back to asking "how" do you want to be represented and is there any portrayal in
art that is good or accurate or pleasing to bi people?
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The Dutch response to hate is excellent!
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Hello everyone!
With all my usual chores, and the Easter holiday here, I had no spare time to work on TDS, so it will be on vacation this week. ;)
TDS will return next week, as usual.
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Thanks for all you do, Chuck!
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What Fritz said!
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Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!
To all our moderators! V.
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Love the use of superglue on the rainbow cross to prevent the owner from moving it again uninvited!
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Beautiful story about the Kenyan midwife.
And I love love the artwork!
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Police Officer Hailed a Hero
Crystal Griner! This is the first I heard that she is an LGBT person.
What is the news media's policy on sharing that information, if they know,
nowadays. Do they still tend to hide it? I don't really care if straight people
know or not, but it's important for young LGBT people, IMO.
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Billboard Magazine's Top 50 Gay Anthems
That was interesting. As promised, there were several on there I've never heard of before.
At least the titles didn't ring a bell. My personal favorite on the list was at #23.
My usual complaint with LISTS like these is that they never say what the criteria for the list is,
and I'm guessing they do not because then it's harder to argue or have an opinion about a list.
In any case, the list has only one song on it prior to the 1970's and that is Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
Surely the 1960's must've produced one song that would have fit the list. To me, though, the most egregious
omission was a song from the 1950's: Secret Love. I mean, just read the lyrics:
Once I had a secret love
That lived within the heart of me
All too soon my secret love
Became impatient to be free
So I told a friendly star
The way that dreamers often do
Just how wonderful you are
And why I'm so in love with you
Now I shout it from the highest hills
Even told the golden daffodils
At last my heart's an open door
And my secret love's no secret anymore
[Interlude]
Now I shout it from the highest hills
Even told the golden daffodils
At last my heart's an open door
And my secret love's no secret anymore.
K.D. Lang even recorded a version of it for the end credits of The Celluloid Closet documentary. George Michael was
among the dozens of artists who have recorded this tune which was #1 on the charts and it also won an Oscar for
Best Song.
IMO.
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I was wondering, perhaps the title Secret Love, sounds like being in the closet,
but look at the lyrics again. It's actually about "coming out" and being free.
Even if one wasn't out, imagine just singing those last lines, even if you still
had to hide in reality:
Now I shout it from the highest hills
Even told the golden daffodils
At last my heart's an open door
And my secret love's no secret anymore.
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Police Officer Hailed a Hero
Crystal Griner! This is the first I heard that she is an LGBT person.
What is the news media's policy on sharing that information, if they know,
nowadays. Do they still tend to hide it? I don't really care if straight people
know or not, but it's important for young LGBT people, IMO.
so does every news story need to start with ID'ing the person's sexuality?? C'mon, Lyle...
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The fact has been made known in the DC area local news, not as a headline but in the context of the story, including mentioning her wife.
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That's what I was getting at, Fritz. I've heard Rep. Steve Scalise's wife
Jennifer mentioned visiting him numerous times in the course of events.
In the context of this story it's also a fact to note that Cristal Griner stepped
in to protect people who don't even think she has a right to be married, among
many other things in that regard.
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Yeah. Hope that people like him will slowly, slowly, see the hypocrisy of his position.
Or at least his successors if he's too far gone.
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Organizers of a Chicago lesbian march banned rainbow flags bearing the Star of David, also known as the Jewish Pride flag, from their event held Saturday because some marchers claimed it made them "feel unsafe."
[...]
Rainbow American flags were also censored as "signs of oppression," according to the Windy City Times.
So much for inclusivity.
I didn't read this article, but when you start down the road of exclusion...you might end up back where you started,
or have a very small march.
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Chicago Lesbian March Bans Jewish Pride Flag
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Totally agree with you, Lyle.
There's only one word for it, and it's ugly: Anti-semitism.
I'm very saddened to see anti-semitism acted out so blatantly among the LGBTQ community which I normally support wholeheartedly.
Maybe I have to start questioning that support, at least when it comes to certain groups within the community.
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hello,
there will be no TdS tomorrow.
With the change in status that Photobucket issued, all photos will appear as broken links. rather than continue to add useless pics around the forum, I'm going to hold off on TDS until photobucket goes back to what it was before, or I have a new photo hosting site.
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Understandable, Chuck. That was so sudden what they did.
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Hello forum members!
there will be no TDS tomorrow. I had no time during the weekend, and then today was in the hospital to see my sister-in-law, who was having back surgery. TDS will return next week.
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Gute Besserung for your s-i-l!
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Wishing your s-i-l a positive recovery! :-*
And thanks for all you do with TDS!
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That story in today's TDS about the waitress getting a note that said the family couldn't "give a tip to
someone who doesn't love Jesus" is just sad. What kind of people go around passing judgment on everyone
else as though they are superior? It also assumes a gay person could not "love Jesus" just because of their
orientation. Plus, a tip isn't about loving Jesus, it's about the service you got from your waitress. I can think
of a whole lot of religious doctrine that would go against what they did.
P.S.: Don't get tattoo's! LOL!
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I agree with everything you said, Lyle.
I'm following that story to see if there is more to it. The last time a story like this made news, it was proven to be a scam.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519575/Dayna-Morales-Lesbian-waitress-accused-anti-gay-note-hoax-finally-starts-refunding-gullible-wishers-gave-thousands-dollars.html
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Hello TDS readers!
TDS will not be published this week, but will return next week.
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Annie Proulx's latest novel is called BARKSKINS – not Bearskins.
I know that the text was lifted directly from The Guardian and pasted to TDS, so not your fault.
Excellent book, by the way.
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Annie Proulx's latest novel is called BARKSKINS – not Bearskins.
I know that the text was lifted directly from The Guardian and pasted to TDS, so not your fault.
Excellent book, by the way.
Thanks for the correction! I hadn't noticed the error, but I've corrected TDS to reflect the correct title.
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It's always curious how religious marriage officiants seek additional laws to protect their ability to reject same-sex couples in particular, when they have since time immemorial never been obliged to perform a ceremony for any group or individual, for any or no reason whatsoever. They have tried to do the same over here.
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Hello!
With the holiday falling as it did, there was no TDS this week. It should be back next week!
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Gus Kenworthy is dreamy!
And then there are his puppies!
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Today's article about Ang Lee (‘Brokeback Mountain’) being voted top Best Director Oscar winner of the 2000's is very heartening.
I think that BBM's loss in the Best Picture category had a lot to do with that. People who still feel strongly about it had a reason to
put his name on that list over, say, fanboys who feel Scorcese can do no wrong. (By the way, Ang Lee has more Oscars than Martin
Scorcese. FYI!)
Now I have to record this info in the Awards Aftermath thread, heh!
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Today's column about LGBT Movies begins with this observation about LGBT films:
However, it’s worth noting that the vast majority of these releases either take place in an utterly depressing setting or conclude on a tragic note.
Then almost at the end of the article is this:
An example of positive LGBT storytelling is the BAFTA-nominated film God’s Own Country, which depicts the story of a gay relationship without pandering to negative themes.
I love that film...I liked it even more than Call Me by Your Name, but...it does take place in a depressing setting, I have to say, so probably not the best example.
What the article fails to do is to provide (m)any examples of what would be considered a happy film in comfortable settings, I guess. I think PRIDE is an example of a great positive film in a setting far from depressing. However, another person could look at the film and say, "yeah, but a couple characters are painfully closeted, there's gay bashing, the AIDS crisis is dealt with, discriminatory attitudes are prevalent. So when you write an article like this you need to be more explanatory with the theme of it, it my opinion.
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I was going to mention "God's Own Country", as hopeful but that beat me to it. As for being a depressing setting, well it is starkly beautiful and possibly culturally an unlikely place for love to thrive. But that makes it all the more joyful when it does. Light and shade.
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Re: The Rain Pryor comments about Quincy Jones's remarks...
On the one hand, I suppose none of us want to really think about our parents sex lives
and to have it in the news would be problematic for most people. Why Rain decided to lash
out the way she did might be worth a look into. I don't know her at all, but Quincy Jones
has always been thought of in the best of lights, from what I know about him.
Another thought, isn't it always the case that if someone makes a remark like this that
someone will always say it's unfair because the person in question isn't around to defend
themselves. As though it would be perfectly fine to make accusations while they still are
around. And, if they were, they would deny it?
I remember a great deal of talk about Marlon Brando hooking up with Wally Cox. Anyone
recall that?
All I can say is good for Wally Cox and Richard Pryor!
I am quite sure there are a whole lot of things we don't know. People are still trying to figure out
what happened with Natalie Wood. No one wants to accept the simple explanation...that she lost
her footing, fell into the water and drowned becasue no one noticed. No, it was too tragic, so the
reason must be something else. It must be sinister. It must be a conspiracy, it must be something
other than simple, other than mundane, other than an accident.
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Swiped the Adobe Acrobat Reader!
And the Kansas GOP does not have a corner on such legislation.
http://www.joemygod.com/2018/02/18/south-carolina-republican-lawmakers-file-bill-seeking-classify-sex-marriage-parody-marriage/
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That Kansas GOP statement doesn't make sense to me:
The Kansas Republican Party has voted to "oppose all efforts to validate transgender identity," but said
"it recognizes the dignity of those who are gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender."
How can you recognize the dignity of something you don't believe in?
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They subscribe to other Orwellian concepts.
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That Kansas GOP statement doesn't make sense to me:
The Kansas Republican Party has voted to "oppose all efforts to validate transgender identity," but said
"it recognizes the dignity of those who are gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender."
How can you recognize the dignity of something you don't believe in?
Maybe they didn't mean to include transgender in recognizing dignity.
Besides, bigots never said they have to make sense.
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It's so deeply satisfying to see the Irish prime minister marching with his boyfriend and with other state and city political officials. Apparently even Cardinal Dolan didn't raise a stink, a bit surprising. It was not that long ago that parade officials refused to let any gay people identifying themselves as such march in an organized manner. Thank goodness that the old leadership finally gave up and quit, and that new leadership has been far more accommodating.
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Being Irish out weights being gay with the hierarchy of the church........ :laugh:
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:D
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Heath ....the prankster.
I love ....that even now after the years without Heath....stories still find
their way out about him. :)
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Re: Cynthia Nixon running for Governor:
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Cynthia Nixon's qualifications to be Governor, and Trump has opened the door for a n y o n e thinking they would, could or should run for some office, I can tell you having lived in upstate N.Y. for so long that her New York City centric video announcing her candidacy is not going to play well outside New York City. To a great many upstaters, NYC is the behemoth that sucks up all the attention and tax revenue from the rest of the state. NYC is akin to upstaters hearing, "All I ever hear about is Marcia Marcia Marcia."
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"All I ever hear about is Marcia Marcia Marcia."
:laugh:
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Diana Ossana: Who Was Almost In Brokeback Mountain
I have to admit that when I read this title the other day, before reading the
article, I was thinking... "now who would Diana have played?"
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Please do this for me...
Turn your volume way up,
When youtube starts, use Full Screen (Shift F)
You won't regret it
May 19 will mark the sixth anniversary
It was a pleasant summer afternoon in this traditional Catalan square.
A musician placed his hat upside down on the pavement before him.
A little girl dropped a coin into the hat.
What happened next lifted the hearts of hundreds of lucky spectators
and of 76 million (plus) viewers, including mine,
to one of life's treasures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg)
~~~fia, soy Sabadell
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I love the idea of a flash mob, but I've never experienced one in real life. I would dearly love to have such an experience.
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<<< Did you ever have an unexpected event in your life that showed you how wonderful
life could be, something that you have treasured ever since? >>>
I guess I'm the first to answer this! I didn't want to think of something for the sake of it, I wanted
it to be that idea you were talking about -- that you feel something in the moment that always lingers
on when it comes to mind, and it just took only a few seconds to remember these two moments.
[After I wrote this, below, I realized both things happened during this same week of May, exactly twenty
years ago.]
I visited New York City in 1998 and spent each day visiting some tourist attractions. Often when one is
traveling, you get overloaded by these things and you're often tired while doing many of them because
it can be physically exhausting after awhile. Sometimes you appreciate them more on hindsight when
you have time to contemplate what you've done and seen, rather than while you're actually there.
I was in tourist mode one morning and quickly ate some breakfast, traveled to lower Manhattan and got
on the ferry. I was sitting outside on the ferry on a hard bench in the rather cool air, with misty almost
rain in my face and the wind blowing. I stood up and walked to the front of this craft and then looked
straight up...the Statue of Liberty was there, seemingly out of nowhere to me and sprawling up to the
top of the sky and just looking so beautiful and awesome and I got a surge of gratitude for being right
there in that place to see such a magnificent thing in person. I remember thinking how lucky I was to
be there in just that moment and actually thought how beautiful life can be. I couldn't avert my gaze
from the wondrous sight.
___
On the opposite scale of things, is a minute or two of complete silence. It turned out to be my last trip
home to visit my mother, and it was the week before the above mentioned trip to NYC. One afternoon
I went into the living room where I found her sitting quietly on the couch. We looked at each other, but
didn't say anything. I went over and sat down next to her and took her very aged hand, really looked at
her visage and how many years she'd seen...listened to her breathing and felt the life in her and the spirit
in her eyes. We sat there quietly for what my memory thinks was a few minutes. No words. I was overcome
with the sense of beauty and a feeling of spirituality of the two of us just sitting side by side. It's a memory
I treasure and is often a comforting one, though right now I may need to go shed a brief tear or two.
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What happened next lifted the hearts of hundreds of lucky spectators
and of 76 million (plus) viewers, including mine,
to one of life's treasures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg)
~~~fia, soy Sabadell[/b][/center]
~~~fia
That was marvelous! And you were there! Ode to Joy is one of my favorite pieces of music.
I got to see it played live by an orchestra and full chorus at the closing ceremony of the 1984
Olympics in Los Angeles! This video was so lovely! I don't know if this was ever the intention
of the composer, but one reason I love this music is that the music builds and is so joyous, but
it comes to a part (at around 3:55 on this video) where the music becomes briefly tentative,
uncertain, and even sorrowful, but then comes back to full happiness and "joy." I always think
of that part of the music as knowing that you can't feel the full experience of joy without having
known the sorrow and I feel it gives this piece of music all the more power.
Thank you so much for sharing that and inspiring this idea for people to post their own experiences!
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I love the idea of a flash mob, but I've never experienced one in real life. I would dearly love to have such an experience.
I agree, Fritz, I think that would be fantastic.
Even seeing them on youtube is wondrous.
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I love the idea of a flash mob, but I've never experienced one in real life. I would dearly love to have such an experience.
^^^^^^^^^^^
What Fritz said.
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I guess I'm the first to answer this! I didn't want to think of something for the sake of it, I wanted
it to be that idea you were talking about -- that you feel something in the moment that always lingers
on when it comes to mind, and it just took only a few seconds to remember these two moments.
Lyle, they were both beautiful, and exactly what I hoped for. Endless thanks.
Here are a few things I've opicked up from the Internet about Som Sabadell.
It was a planned effort, produced by the Bank of Sabadell which (they say)
badly needed some good publicity at the time. It was a stroke of genius, I think.
The Orchestra Simphonica del Valles was local, but excellent. There were three choirs,
Amics de l'Opera de Sabadell, the Coral Belles Arts and Cor Lieder Camera, all from
local communities. The conductor is Ruben Gimeno, now famous across Europe and
an alumnus of the University of Maryland (Master in Orchestra Conducting).
Who chose Ode to Joy? I don't know, but it is the anthem of the European Union.
The photography amazes me: except at the very end after the music has stopped, I don't
see a single movie camera. But look at the amazing variety of people's faces -- old, young,
knowledgable, surprised, smiling, appreciative... The photographers had to be experts
(perfect framing and no jitters) and virtually invisible. Later, when the video was edited,
someone had to select just which clips to show and when. A superb job!
The little girl atop the street lamp? One of the commenters says she is the conductor's
daughter. I don't know for sure, but she certainly favors him.
When the final chorus bursts forth and the joyful man reacts "Oh wow!", I'll bet
you did, too.
I could go on, but I'll leave you with this thought:
Eighty years ago, a young radio announcer named Herb Morrison,
witnessed the Hindenburg catastrophe. His voice wavering and choked with angst,
he said to his radio listeners, "Oh, the humanity..."
Today, with my own voice wavering but inspired by love and hope
and Som Sabadell, I rejoice and say, "Oh, the humanity!"
~~~fia
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I'm pressed for time, but I do have two stories to tell, and will share them later this week.
Lyle, loved your post!
fia, I've seen that video a number of times, and each time has made me tear up a little.
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Because my naval father was working in different places I was at boarding school in Switzerland for 5 years. So many good memories, but one that stands out was a summer walk when I was about 14 or 15, up past the village through the alpine fields. Yes,it was idyllic - mountains, spring flowers, warm sun, cowbells - and I was struck by this sudden moment of incandescent happiness. But it wasn’t so much that I was happy: it was, I think for the first time that I was KNEW that I was happy, and that I was experiencing a new awareness, of myself in my environment.
After that it used to happen from time to time. Less often now, but I still get the occasional glimpse.
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Flash mobs (only experienced on YouTube) always make me want to cry - in a good way. I think it’s watching people's faces suddenly light up, and seeing the music or dancing grow from one solitary player to a mass of them.
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My response to the question in this week's Daily Sheet, about an unexpected moment of happiness in your life:
When I used to visit my mother in Colorado, she would be awake all night watching the stock market scroll on the TV in the living room, because she was uncomfortable sleeping in her own bed. She wanted to see the reports about the overnight Asian or European stock markets; those special reports start at 3:00 AM Colorado time (which is 5 AM in New York). It was mostly a way for her to keep occupied during the wee hours.
On the mornings when I would leave for the airport, to return home, my taxi would come at about 6:00 or 6:30 AM. Depending on the season, the sky might be dark or light, or there might be the beginnings of a sunrise. Mom would still be awake, because she'd had the stock market scroll to keep her company while I ate breakfast and made sure I'd finished packing.
One morning, I saw a beautiful sunrise over the roofs of the houses across the street, with the darker tree limbs silhouetted against it. I would have called my mom to come look, but she was comfortable in her chair, and didn't feel like standing up with her walker, and then getting into her wheelchair to come to the door. So I ran to get my camera and stood out on the porch, snapping photographs to the east, the north, and the south. Then I took my camera back inside and let my mother view the sunrise on its display window. This was a moment of happy sharing, unplanned, but not totally surprising.
Eventually those sunrise photos got posted on my computer here, and one is now my screen saver. My mother has since passed away, and although I own her old house, and I have some nice people renting the house now, it's not our family home any longer. When I catch a glimpse of that sunrise screen saver now, I often take it for granted as just a pretty picture.
But now and then, the screen saver will bring back some unexpected memories, memories of the happiness which I shared with my mom that long-ago morning. I will remember what it felt like to stand in the cool air that morning, on the front porch in Colorado, looking for the best angle from which to snap photographs for Mom to see. And I will remember Mom finally making it across the room in her wheelchair, and sitting just inside the front door to make sure I got safely into my taxi. And then to say, "Be sure to call when you get home."
Maybe this memory is particularly strong this weekend because Sunday is Mother's Day.
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I'm not sure if these stories fit what you are looking for, fia, but it's what I have to share.
Years ago, not long after I had first come out, I had developed a crush on a friend who lived in another state. We had a lot of great conversations via phone or email, but he viewed me as a friend only.
I was going to be spending time in his area for an event, so he invited me to stay the weekend with him. I thought that perhaps he was starting to change how he saw me. In reality, he was being friendly, and then proceeded to spend a good part of the weekend talking about a new guy he had met. I put up a good front, but was crushed when I drove home. I was living with my parents at the time, and when I got home, I got to my room to see my mom had re-decorated it. My stuff was still where I put it, but I had new carpeting, new curtains, new bedding. She left a note explaining that she wanted a surprise for me, in case things didn't go the way I wanted that weekend.
The second story took place not long after the loss of my friend, Rich. Rich and I were pretty close, and spoke via phone and PMs almost daily. He had come up to the NYC area to visit, and I went down to Georgia to see him. One thing he wanted to do was go to Canada and see the BBM filming locations. Unfortunately, Rich was killed in an accident in 2010. UBF member Sue (then SuelyBlu, now BlueAmber63) was going to visit the locations, so I asked her if she would leave a picture of Rich at one of the locations for me. She replied she would, and I sent her a pic of him.
When she got back, she sent me a picture of herself at the Basque Bridge, holding the pic of Rich. She had written a message on it for me.
"He was a friend of mine......RIP, from Chuck"
After both of these events, things went from feeling so bad,to being OK.
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I love everyone's stories...love that these simple things can end up having so much meaning.
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I think that your stories are perfect, Chuck.
They show how small physical objects (the new bedroom decor, and the picture of Rich) can be tied to so many meaningful emotions, whether memories you want to hang onto, or just feelings of relief that things are still okay despite disappointments.
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Beautiful heartfelt stories, y'all.
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I’d wanted a horse since I was 4. I have pictures of me on my aunt’s horse when I was that age. I finally got my own when I was 29. I treasure every moment I had him, but one in particular I’ll never forget.
I had him stabled in Mt. View in California, and one horrible, no good, very bad day I found out the land had been sold to Bill Graham to build the Shoreline Amphitheatre. One day we were out for a ride and I saw a field that used to be grass and was now all turned over for building. I decided we were going to have a run. Most of the work I did with him was in an arena, working on jumping and some dressage flat work.
I rode him about a half mile into the field, just walking...I was looking for holes in the ground or any really uneven footing that might cause a problem. Everything looked good, so we walked back to the edge and I got set, and then we just took off. I can't describe the way it felt...it was the best feeling in the world for me, and I could tell he was happy, too. It really was like we were flying.
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Great story, Nancy.
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Wonderful reading everyone's posts...from people I know!
I love everyone's stories...love that these simple things can end up having so much meaning.
Agree! Sometimes I've found that the most mundane or rouitine day can be overwhelming in its pleasures.
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The "Lesbian Teacher Claims Discrimination" story...
I read the whole article linked to this story. The school she teaches in does
seem to be more progressive than one might think in terms of these things,
so I wondered what the real problem is here. From looking through the article
a second time it seems to me the real issue is that when straight people hear
an LGBT person talk about getting married or having a wife (or husband) they
think about the "sex" component of such a relationship and then surmise
that the children are thinking about this, too. So then you are "pushing a
lifestyle. In other words, "the sins of the parents visited upon the children."
But straight people talk about getting married all the time. Do they think of
sex immediately? Do they think that's what children think about when they
talk of that aspect? Obviously, they think something is wrong about it or it
would not even be an issue, really.
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Please do this for me...
Turn your volume way up,
When youtube starts, use Full Screen (Shift F)
You won't regret it
May 19 will mark the sixth anniversary
It was a pleasant summer afternoon in this traditional Catalan square.
A musician placed his hat upside down on the pavement before him.
A little girl dropped a coin into the hat.
What happened next lifted the hearts of hundreds of lucky spectators
and of 76 million (plus) viewers, including mine,
to one of life's treasures.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg)
~~~fia, soy Sabadell
Wonderful!
Love the little girl in the lamp post, conducting.
Thanks for posting it, Bob.
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I love the idea of a flash mob, but I've never experienced one in real life. I would dearly love to have such an experience.
Me too.
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Lovely stories everyone shared. Thank you.
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Perhaps the time has come to remove for now the “Brokeback Mountain play coming soon” post at the bottom of TDS. As far as I can see, there has been NO further information since August last year. :(
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Perhaps the time has come to remove for now the “Brokeback Mountain play coming soon” post at the bottom of TDS. As far as I can see, there has been NO further information since August last year. :(
True, Sara, there's been crickets chirping. The "only sign of life after all these years" is just that the
play website's copyright was updated to 2018. Small potatoes.
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I can do that. If we do get some sort of update, we can reinstate it.
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As for the opera:
What Do Critics Think of the U.S. Premiere of the Brokeback Mountain Opera
http://www.playbill.com/article/what-do-critics-think-of-the-us-premiere-of-the-brokeback-mountain-opera
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A couple comments on today's TDS stories:
<<< Michelle Williams will star in “This Is Jane,” Amazon Studios’ historical drama that follows women who provided abortion services in the years before legalized abortion. >>>
Sounds like a really niche audience for a film like this, no matter the quality of the final product.
<<< Might This Become the New Pride Flag? >>>
I hope not.
<<< Katie Hill, a bisexual Democrat, could be the person to unseat anti-LGBTQ lawmaker Steve Knight in the U.S. mid-term election later this year. >>>
Let's hope so.
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A reminder to all BBM fans and members about what today marks... V.
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A reminder to all BBM fans and members about what today marks... V.
OK... I'm actually terrified / shocked no one here remembers the significance of today...
On 14 Jun 2004 is when BBM began filming.
V.
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OK... I'm actually terrified / shocked no one here remembers the significance of today...
On 14 Jun 2004 is when BBM began filming.
V.
Sorry, Vincent. I never knew this date.
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8) LOL NP.. i just thought all the brokies here had that date tattooed in places where the sun don't shine! :) V.
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I do have a few tattoos, but not that one! And certainly not there! :laugh:
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Jeez, guys! What a visual!! :o 8)
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Hopefully not too far off topic.. wasn't sure where to post b/c I know we have a lot of MIAOS fans here..
A reminder from our Bettermost friends... Man In An Orange Shirt (MIAOS) is airing in the US on PBS Sunday 17 June 18 at 22:00/10:00 PM EDT. (Check your local times for the listing). Try not to miss it. It is the full 2 hour run. Many homages to BBM (if you are paying close attention!!) and a story which rips to your core (stops typing now) We discussed in several threads. I really like this one! V.
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Hopefully not too far off topic.. wasn't sure where to post b/c I know we have a lot of MIAOS fans here..
A reminder from our Bettermost friends... Man In An Orange Shirt (MIAOS) is airing in the US on PBS Sunday 17 June 18 at 21:00/09:00 PM. Don't miss it. Complete 2 hour run. Lots of homages to BBM (if you are paying close attention!!) and a story which will rip to you to your core (stops typing now) We discussed in several threads. V.
Thanks, Vincent. I have recorded it, so I make sure I don't miss it. I'll have the tissues ready.
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I had to look up this word from a TDS article, applied to Heath Ledger:
lar·ri·kin / ˈlerəkən /
noun
a boisterous, often badly behaved young man.
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I often applied it to a student. They were the types who would drive you mad in class but you could not dislike, in fact often liked. Not bad but mischievous.
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Re: "Heath Ledgers life in art." from the Daily Sheet.
Don't know how it could be arranged ...but how I wish...WISH the display of Heaths
things could be bought to England and other places. I know he was a Perth boy....
but he is so loved and missed in so many places in the world ...we would all love to
be able to be a part of "his" world that once was....just for a moment.
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Lizzo is one of the few people in that music genre that I am familiar with, at least her name and one of her pieces. The NPR program On Being closes each Sunday morning with her hip-hop delivery of the show's credits!
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When I went to read todays TDS I realized I had not read last week's yet! So, from that one I would like to say:
Thank you Stacey Bailey for just continuing to be yourself and taking the challenge on that was meant to try and stop you from teaching.
Unfortuantely I CAN believe there are people that try to erase even the smallest of facts, like someone is gay or not in the guise of "protecting
children."
I'd also like to thank you for teaching me something...
"...she taught her students about gay artist Jasper Johns..."
I didn't know Jasper Johns was gay, so you taught ME something! Several years ago I had seen a segment on the
Charlie Rose show when he interviewed someone about Jasper Johns and talked about his work and many other things.
That simple fact that he was gay never entered the conversation at all. Just a short time later I visited the Bing Theatre
at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art to see a film there and your ticket to that place allows you to see current exhibits.
I was early, so I went in and to my surprise there was an exhibit of Jasper Johns works for which I'd had a superb introduction
from that program I watched! I Can't believe I didn't know this personal information about the artist previously.
At that same time the museum had an exhibition of Art Deco costumes that the gay designer Erté had produced for productions
in Paris. I knew that Erté was gay and have always been a huge fan of his work. Two gay artists having exhibitions at the same
time at LACMA!
Fabulous!
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Linda Cardellini (Cassie) in New Horror Film
She is also in the soon to be released film "Green Book."
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When this edition of TDS hits, it will be Election Day in the United States. There are 22 candidates running for House seats that identify as LGBT, and they could be elected in states that are turning from 'red' (Republican) to 'blue' (Democrat).
There has been much talk about a "blue wave" during this election cycle, and there appears to be a 'rainbow wave' as well, as the LGBT candidates are getting a lot of exposure and support. The only two bi candidates with significant media coverage are Katie Hill, running for California’s 25th district, and Kyrsten Sinema, a U.S. representative for Arizona’s 9th district who is running to replace Sen. Jeff Flake (R-AZ).
While I've heard of both Katie Hill and Kyrsten Sinema, I didn't know they were bi. I've seen Katie Hill's commercials for several weeks locally, though she's not in my district, but adjacent, and have been very impressed. I do hope she pulls out a convincing win tonight!
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^^^
TIght races, but it looks like both of them aren't going to previal. :">
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^^^^^^
CORRECTION: I mixed up Katie Hill with Katie Porter. Katie Hill DID narrowly win her seat
against longtime incumbent Steve Knight! Yay! Katie Porter did not win against incumbent
Mimi Walters in her close election.
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TDS - The interview with Cullen is nice. I wonder if we will see an uptick in hits to the site? Funny thing is BBM changed a lot of people's lives. That "You Know That Scene" is one of those iconic clips which they will be showing and referencing for a while... it's that powerful. V.
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In reference to the election, the one who painted the house across from Westboro Baptist in Kansas in rainbow colors, Davis Hammet, had a role to play in turning Kansas around.
https://www.indy100.com/article/davis-hammet-pro-lgbt-westboro-baptist-church-laura-kelly-governor-kansas-facebook-8630471?fbclid=IwAR2bDvU1nOaCt91LVczPq8x5IRWqgmw_EMoPWqmMOq2oC2DMzcsdbnZT0Kw
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When I went to read todays TDS I realized I had not read last week's yet! So, from that one I would like to say:
Thank you Stacey Bailey for just continuing to be yourself and taking the challenge on that was meant to try and stop you from teaching.
Unfortuantely I CAN believe there are people that try to erase even the smallest of facts, like someone is gay or not in the guise of "protecting children."
It seems that it’s not only children who need to be “protected.”
In an article in Slate five years ago, Mark Stern questions why the Museum of Modern Art’s 2013 exhibition, “Johns and Rauschenberg,” put Johns and Rauschenberg “back in the closet,” and argues that,
Museums have a responsibility to acknowledge and consider the sexuality of artists in their collections when it is relevant to the work they are displaying. That’s the real tragedy of “Johns and Rauschenberg”: not that it puts gay artists in the closet, but that it keeps viewers in the dark.
https://slate.com/culture/2013/02/moma-closets-jasper-johns-and-robert-rauschenberg-why.html
I'd also like to thank you for teaching me something...
"...she taught her students about gay artist Jasper Johns..."
I didn't know Jasper Johns was gay, so you taught ME something! Several years ago I had seen a segment on the
Charlie Rose show when he interviewed someone about Jasper Johns and talked about his work and many other things.
That simple fact that he was gay never entered the conversation at all. Just a short time later I visited the Bing Theatre
at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art to see a film there and your ticket to that place allows you to see current exhibits.
I was early, so I went in and to my surprise there was an exhibit of Jasper Johns works for which I'd had a superb introduction
from that program I watched! I Can't believe I didn't know this personal information about the artist previously. [snip]
Well, I knew about Jasper Johns—and also about Robert Rauschenberg (1925-2008) and Cy Twombly (1928-2011). :">
Johns is now 88, but in 1949 he moved from South Carolina to New York City, and lived in downtown Manhattan between 1954-1961, where he and fellow artist, the Texan Robert Rauschenberg, were not only painting collaborators but also full-time lovers
They parted after just six years because of their uneasiness with being recognized as a couple publicly. Their breakup was so acrimonious that they both left New York City and didn't speak to one another for more than a decade.
They were mentored by long-term lovers choreographer Merce Cunningham and composer John Cage at the center of a clique of New York City gay artists who pioneered most of what is now taken for modern art, dance, and music.
Rauschenberg, prior to meeting Johns, had had a previous sexual relationship with another artist, painter Cy Twombly, which included them living and traveling together extensively in Europe and Africa.
Here’s an informative 2016 BBC documentary on Rauschenberg, with segments on both Johns and Twombly, which you may find of interest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yELmPbQNx9M
My apologies for the lateness of this response, Lyle. ::)
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^^^
Thanks for the response, very informative! I appreciate it.
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I'm sure you'll want to put this in next week's.
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/12/12/brokeback-mountain-library-congress/
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Every week!
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I read The Well of Loneliness a very long time ago when I was probably in my teens. I must admit I wasn’t all that moved by it, although it was a subject I was wanting to find out all I could about. I can’t remember now whether I even found it very informative. I wonder what I’d think of it now?
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Hello TDS readers!
I have a very busy weekend ahead of me, and due to that, I won't be able to produce an issue of TDS for 1/29. It will be back the following week.
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Thanks for all you do, Chuck!
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From a January TDS:
New York City Adds Gender-Neutral Option to Birth Certificates
New York City now offers a gender-neutral option on birth certificates for residents who don't identify as male or female. It's called "X." As of this week, adults over 18 can alter their birth certificates to "X" so long as they attest via a form that the change "is to reflect my true gender identity." New York Mayor Bill de Blasio signed the move into law Tuesday, ABC reported.
I thought of the above this week when I was watching a 1973 aired episode (forty-six years ago!) of "Laugh-In." They had a joke where a couple who'd just had a baby was returning the birth certificate to the hospital official who says, "You didn't mark Male or Female, which is it?" The father says, "Oh leave that unmarked. We're going to wait until they grow up and then the child can decide."
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--Ang Lee
The TDS article about Ang makes me wonder where his mind is at right now. I used to look forward to each film he made,
but lately his choices are just not interesting to me and the two most recent, his "Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk" and the
upcoming "Gemini Man," Lee seems more interested in the technology of the filmgoing experience, than the actual storytelling.
That Billy Lynn movie was not only a misfire, but a train wreck. And these are to be followed by yet ANOTHER boxing film, and
this one (yet again) about Muhammed Ali, "Thrilla in Manila." Sorry, Lee, I am just not interested. I don't care about the frame
rates and 3-D has been on the wane in terms of people's interest.
___
As for the laugh of the day: Why would you put lucky charms in your underwear? :P
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The article with David Harbour in the TDS reminds me that he's on a talk show tonight.
I don't know if I can recall ever seeing him on one. (?)
JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE, ABC
Tues. 3/26: David Harbour
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I saw he's on Kimmel tonight, can't remember if I'm recording it or not!!?? :o
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Our hosters are moving this site to a new data centre on Sunday 31st and there may be an outage of a couple of hours between 3am - 11am GMT and 4am -noon for Europe.
Our current DC provider is moving to a new location.
Equinix is one of the most prestigious global colocation providers. We have had many requests by our loyal client base over the years to expand into foreign and domestic markets. By adding Equinix’s services to our offerings we can now do more for our clients., As with any quality data center Equinix offers N+1 power with multi utility feeds & generators, N+1 on all cooling system, along with the highest quality onsite security in the business, and so much more.
No IP will be changed. GC servers will take between 2-4 hours to be moved.
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Re: Dismissing the Gay Teacher From
Cathedral School.
It has always been my sincere thought...that there should be no religious schools.
They cause more problems than what they solve.
Could say sooo much more re: these institutions...(which they ARE) but I will
leave it at this.
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What has happened to the link to the Daily Sheet on the top right of the page? The only link now seems to be to Beyond Brokeback, and I keep missing the DS.
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Unfortunately although Israel Folau's GoFundme account was closed down, he was able to raise $2 million from other online sources.
"The former fullback also crowdfunded over $2 million to pay his legal fees, with the help of a $100,000 donation from the Australian Christian Lobby."
There is a big discussion about freedom of religion in Australia. Makes me glad I left the country and also this whole thing has been the final thing that has turned me from calling myself Christian and having been a teacher for over 20 years in Catholic schools where, although gay and protestant, I, was generally supported, I now only go to church for the music and do not believe a word of it anymore.
So I tend to agree with BlueAmber although I found discipline much better in religious schools and was not persecuted. I know churches do a lot of good charity work but I try to donate to charities which is do not have Christian in their name such as Medecins sans frontiers (Doctors without borders)
An interesting comment from Penny Wong who is a leader in the Australian Opposition party (leader in the Senate), has a same-sex partner and child and is one great lady.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-09/penny-wong-delivers-an-emotional-message-to-israel-folau-on-q&a/11290650
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What has happened to the link to the Daily Sheet on the top right of the page? The only link now seems to be to Beyond Brokeback, and I keep missing the DS.
Hello Sara,
It seems that the link appears on various windows, not on all the windows all the time.
I believe you would just have to navigate the forum as you usually do, and each time a new page opens, check the upper corner where the link has been in the past. It will be there on one window.
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What I do is click on the HOME button until the link to TDS appears. It's just how the forum is set up.
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Chuck and Linda, I know - that’s what I’ve always done. But now it’s never there. I’ve just tried 20 clicks!
This is on my iPad, as I have a computer problem atm. But doubt that makes any difference? Can other people see the link?
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Hello Sara!
I have a solution for you. TDS gets published either Monday night or Tuesday morning. Every Tuesday, I'll come here and post a link to TDS, that way, you and others who are having this issue will be able to find it.
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That would be good! Thanks, Chuck.
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For anyone having difficulty locating TDS, I will post a link to the most recent edition each Tuesday.
Here is the first link.
TDS - 07/16/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49457.msg2809603#msg2809603)
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One Million Moms Are Boycotting ‘Toy Story 4’
Both of them?
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:laugh:
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Both of them?
Too too funny Fritz!! :laugh: :laugh:
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TDS - 07/23/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49457.msg2811186#msg2811186)
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Thanks Chuck - it’s a big help. Otherwise Tuesdays (or whenever) can come and go without my noticing!
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Love the cat with tan lines!
And had a happy cry over the New Zealand dads’ baby in last week’s.
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One Million Moms Are Boycottiong 'Toy Story 4'
Both of them?
LOL! In that TDS post it says: You probably wouldn’t notice it if you weren’t looking for it, but an interracial lesbian couple is seen dropping their kid off and later picking her up from school.
I have to say, after seeing this film last Monday, I was actually looking for it, and I didn't even see it!
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TDS - 07/30/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49457.msg2812142#msg2812142)
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TDS - 08/06/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49457.msg2813508#msg2813508)
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Saw both the movies and read the novels of Lonesome Dove and Field of Dreams, absolutely enthralled by both.
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TDS - 08/13/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49457.msg2814903#msg2814903)
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TDS - 08/20/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49457.msg2816259#msg2816259)
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Saw both the movies and read the novels of Lonesome Dove and Field of Dreams, absolutely enthralled by both.
FoD is in my top 5...It gives me chill bumps to this day. The novel is good too. V.
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TDS - 08/27/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49457.msg2817549#msg2817549)
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TDS - 09/3/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2819337#msg2819337)
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TDS - 09/10/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2820210#msg2820210)
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TDS - 09/17/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2821381#msg2821381)
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TDS - 09/24/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2822783#msg2822783)
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TDS - 10/01/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2824572#msg2824572)
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https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/09/29/pastor-apologizes-and-leads-church-in-cleansing-prayer-after-gay-mans-speech/
What a truly horrible response from a pastor who professes to be “Christian”, about someone who is trying to deal with LGBTQI teen suicides. And if you read the text of his actual sermon, with its nasty innuendo, it’s even worse. (Probably better not.)
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^^^^ I sure hope there's something to karma. It's in line with the old verse they should be very familiar with about "...reaping what you sow. karma, karma, karma...
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TDS - 10/08/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2826576#msg2826576)
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TDS - 10/15/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2828682#msg2828682)
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Hello everyone!
Just a quick post, I had a busy weekend and will be busy tomorrow as well, so I won't have the opportunity to make a new edition of TDS, so we're on a break this week.
It will return next week.
Thanks for understanding!!!
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Thanks for all your work on it, Chuck!
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TDS - 10/29/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2832734#msg2832734)
[/quote]
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TDS - 11/05/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2835767#msg2835767)
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TDS - 11/12/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2838227#msg2838227)
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TDS - 11/19/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2840828#msg2840828)
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TDS - 11/26/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2843081#msg2843081)
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TDS - 12/03/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2844936#msg2844936)
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TDS - 12/10/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2847008#msg2847008)
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TDS - 12/17/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2849081#msg2849081)
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TDS - 12/24/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2850524#msg2850524)
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TDS - 12/31/2019 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg2851987#msg2851987)
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TDS - 01/06/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2853357#msg2853357)
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TDS - 01/14/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2854345#msg2854345)
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TDS - 01/21/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2855353#msg2855353)
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TDS - 01/28/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2856322#msg2856322)
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TDS - 02/04/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2857722#msg2857722)
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TDS - 02/11/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2859079#msg2859079)
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TDS - 02/18/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2860561#msg2860561)
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TDS - 02/25/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2861796#msg2861796)
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TDS - 03/03/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2863202#msg2863202)
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TDS - 03/10/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2864385#msg2864385)
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Today's TDS...
I'm all for Joe Biden's announced LGBTQ plans, but I have to say...everyone is focused on beating the current White House occupant. I think he should stick to two or three agenda items that the most number of voters will be happy to support. Don't get into controversial subjects that people can argue about for months. Eyes on the prize. We know he'll be an ally.
As for: Former GOP Rep. Aaron Schock Says He's Gay...duh. Anyone that's read LGBT newsie sites like Joe My God or Queerty or Towleroad the last decade knows this. He's been at Palm Springs "white parties" and photographed dancing half naked with guys and at wild parties etc. All the while NOT supporting LGBT issues in congress and using the office as an ATM. He's a piece of crap. He was a true Trump republican before Trump.
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TDS - 03/17/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2865963#msg2865963)
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TDS - 03/24/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2868489#msg2868489)
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TDS - 03/31/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49483.msg2870460#msg2870460)
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I didn't know Michelle asked the 'boys' to repeat the kissing for the reunion scene until she felt it looked real.......interesting.......wonder how many times they had to do it over??!! :o :o :o.....now THAT would be an outtake worth seeing....... ;D
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Bruised lips ;)
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^^^ Yeap... I mean that's the scene that drew audible gasps from the viewers... first for she seeing that and second because it was so intensely passionate - good call on her part! :)
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TDS - 04/07/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2871951#msg2871951)
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Holy Swipe, Batman! Stole the laugh for FB, Chuck!
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LOL! Glad you liked it!
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TDS - 04/14/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2873471#msg2873471)
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TDS - 04/21/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2874725#msg2874725)
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TDS - 04/28/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2876144#msg2876144)
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TDS - 05/05/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2877904#msg2877904)
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Swiped the Twilight Zone pic for my FB page!
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TDS - 05/12/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2879928#msg2879928)
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The Australian Federal Parliament paid tribute this afternoon to the four police who were killed by a truck on the Eastern Freeway in Melbourne last month.
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TDS - 05/19/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2881455#msg2881455)
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TDS - 05/26/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2883345#msg2883345)
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Swiped the Laugh for FB!
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TDS - 06/02/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2885134#msg2885134)
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TDS - 06/09/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2886773#msg2886773)
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How nice it was of Eric Roberts to say all those lovely things about Heath.
Heath may have been gone for quite a while now...but it seems he left
a wonderful unforgettable impression of himself with them.
I'm so happy that even now ....little pieces of news about him still leak
out about him. Long may it keep happening.
Thankyou Eric. :)
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I guess I didn't post this in the best thread... maybe here. ---> Just a reminder - BBM Filming Began - 14 Jun 2004... V.
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TDS: Full Circle Pride: ‘Brokeback Mountain’ Review
Some of what this author had to say left me thinking, "What are you talking about?" Anyone else?
TDS: The Trump administration will scrap ObamaCare's nondiscrimination protections for sex and gender identity under a final rule released Friday.
I was reading today that the just released Supreme Court Decision may render this illegal.
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^^^^ Yeap. But rest assured, TOM and his GOP bigots already have plan B...
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TDS: Full Circle Pride: ‘Brokeback Mountain’ Review
Some of what this author had to say left me thinking, "What are you talking about?" Anyone else?
This photo (CLICK on it) was in that review and for some reason it seems new to me. Was this in the movie?
Am I forgetting/not remembering something?
(https://i0.wp.com/fullcirclecinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/fullsizeoutput_da8.jpeg?resize=1100%2C458&ssl=1)
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^^^ No. I do not think so at all. The night before they have the "I wish I knew how to quit you!" confrontation. This may have been then and cut for the later evening shot? Just a guess.
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TDS - 06/23/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2890527#msg2890527)
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The pride shirt is hilarious! Hadn't seen that cartoon before!
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The pride shirt is hilarious! Hadn't seen that cartoon before!
Oh my.. I've seen that shirt and album (Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon) 1000x and never even considered that context! WOW, damn I must be sleeping. I wonder if that was Floyd's intent? WTH knows?
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That really is just brilliant.
It personifies a saying I heard once, that most people entrenched in a particular way of thinking about something don't really get:
"If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change."
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From the 6/23 TDS:
Captain Kirk As Bisexual
The possible move to make Captain Kirk bisexual might well alienate fans, given that no other Star Trek canon indicates that he is anything other than straight. However, depending on the way he’s portrayed, if CBS goes down this route, the character could end up alienating the bisexual community.
I kinda was alienated when I read the article title and then find out they're calling this: "Star Trek: Strange New Worlds."
::)
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And comments about this, too:
Lee Daniels Couldn't Watch ‘Brokeback Mountain’
For those of us on this forum...has ANYONE ever heard this before? That he "was the original director of this?" We've heard about other directors attached to this at one time or another, but I've never heard that Lee Daniels was.
Daniels produced 2001's "Monster's Ball," which made history as Halle Berry became the first woman of color to win best actress at the Oscars, so "Brokeback Mountain" would have been his second producing credit but his first directing credit.
I know so many people that don't just "not like" Monster's Ball, but they have angry visceral dislike for it. I don't like it, myself, but not to that level. Makes you wonder, since Heath was in Monster's Ball, if Daniels would've considered Heath for Brokeback Mountain? Larry McMurtry said seeing him in Monster's Ball made him think he'd be right for Ennis. So we can thank Daniels for eating him in that, for one thing, I guess.
"When [Jack and Ennis] first had sex in the tent, I saw that scene how I would direct it, so I just couldn't imagine any other filmmaker doing it justice. Especially a straight filmmaker taking it on."
1.). After hearing Daniels say that first part, wouldn't any person, much less an interviewer, ask "How would you have directed that scene?" Indeed, how?
2.) An acquaintance of mine (he's gay and he's Asian) who I knew from the Video establishment I worked at and had met him because he was a customer there and also because he worked for Columbia Pictures Home Video in the publicity and promotions departments and I was the buyer for the stores (I actually first met him in Washington, D.C. at a VSDA convention where Columbia was promoting a release of Ghostbusters at the time) ...he stands by what he told me that Ang Lee is not straight, but gay.
Around the time Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was going to be released by Columbia on home video I was talking to him in the store and we were talking about the movie. I mentioned to him that I'd heard* speculation that Ang was gay and he forthrightly replied, "Oh, yes, he's one of us." I was surprised of his quick direct response, I guess I expected some correlating speculative wonder, so I asked him how he knew that. He said he'd spent a weekend with him when he came to his offices where they were forming a home video release plan for the film, and they'd spent time dinner together and went out somewhere for drinks. (When you're working you don't always have time to ask follow up questions, you have to get back to work.) This was before Brokeback Mountain was upcoming. So years later, when Brokeback Mountain was in the news and you'd hear that same thing about a straight director helming the film, I asked him what that was all about and he was like, "why do you think?" "He's got a wife, so they equal being married you're straight."
*I wonder now where I heard that at the time and why?
A friend of mine once said he thinks that a straight director might do one gay film, but wouldn't be inclined to do another. Ang Lee has done three. And he's always referred to his The Hulk film as "a coming out story," and told Charlie Rose he likes films where the characters have secrets. Wonder why Ang would like these sorts of things?
Eventually, however, Lee Daniels did see it.
"I saw it, like, 15 years later."
So...THIS YEAR?
Daniels went on to direct "Precious" as his second feature film.
A film that wallows in misery. One reviewer called it "torture porn".
I think that if a straight man wants to play a gay role, sure, why not? And if gay men want to play straight men, sure, why not? It's called acting."
Wonder how far he would go in other areas of race, sex, age, nationality, etc. etc etc.?
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TDS - 06/30/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49492.msg2892556#msg2892556)
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I liked the interview with Daniel Newman! We surely need to spread awareness about the fact that many people don't open up about their bisexuality.
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This forum has provided the best story i really like the content I have also been writing some stuff about Captain Kirk Check here: Captain Kirk as Bisexual (https://pickpaint.co.uk/)
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This forum has provided the best story i really like the content I have also been writing some stuff about Captain Kirk Check here: Captain Kirk as Bisexual (https://pickpaint.co.uk/)
Hello pickpaint01.
I'm glad you liked the story about Captian Kirk, but I would like to be clear that this is not my story. I search the 'net for the stories I want to highlight in TDS, and link to them so the original article is read by the author.
None of the stories I post in TDS are written by me. I'm not saying that's what you were suggesting, I just wanted to clarify.
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7/7 TDS: Queer Directors say 'Brokeback Mountain' is Still the 'Quintessential LGBT Movie' 15 Years On, But...
Because this TDS edition has another INSIDER article that repeats their other recent article about Lee Daniel's directing BBM and his other statements about it and Ang Lee, I refer to my June 24th post above ^ as comment on that.
On the other hand, the rest of this article...anyone want to discuss it on the Awards Aftermath Thread: HERE (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=27999.msg2895058#msg2895058)!
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TDS - 07/14/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2895847#msg2895847)
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TDS - 07/28/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2899080#msg2899080)
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Re: 2018 Interview With Jake Church
Wow, that was an eye opener. Good for him, and he gew up to be very handsome!
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^^^ ditto, I remember that line and the look his mother gave him... Thanks for sharing that. You always wonder what happened to...The adults are easier to find, the kids change so much!
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TDS - 08/03/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2900706;topicseen#msg2900706)
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A new study makes clear what we already knew to be an absolute truth: Male bisexuality exists.
Was somebody having doubts? Sounds like reinventing the wheel. :)
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LOL. Any # of bible-thumpers readily deny anything other than straight has ever or ever will exist as long as they breathe. >:(
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TDS - 08/11/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2902491#msg2902491)
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Hiya TDS readers!
After posting TDS for this week, KillersMom got some information regarding a great story about Gregory Hinton, the man who gave us the Beyond Brokeback experience.
We will be featuring a story on this in next week's TDS, but in case you want to mark your calendars now, check out these links, the same story, once posted in the Gay History thread, and in the Films & Theater thread.
https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=20158.msg2902553#msg2902553 Gay History
https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=5493.msg2902552#msg2902552 Theatre
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TDS - 08/18/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2903841#msg2903841)
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Hiya TDS readers!
After posting TDS for this week, KillersMom got some information regarding a great story about Gregory Hinton, the man who gave us the Beyond Brokeback experience.
We will be featuring a story on this in next week's TDS, but in case you want to mark your calendars now, check out these links, the same story, once posted in the Gay History thread, and in the Films & Theater thread.
https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=20158.msg2902553#msg2902553 Gay History
https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=5493.msg2902552#msg2902552 Theatre
Due to a 14 day Covid quarantine of a company principal, our planned live streaming of More Sky has been postponed until Thursday, September 17th at 7 pm CDT. In the meantime,the link to the More Sky Facebook Live Streaming has been updated. Sorry for the inconvenience
https://www.facebook.com/events/dennis-r-neill-equality-center/more-sky-the-story-of-lynn-riggs/720644015382829/
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TDS - 08/18/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2905262#msg2905262)
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That's a great story about the gay fairy tale, Chuck. I saw that it was available on Amazon.UK, but the looked it up on Amazon.US and it is available as well. YAY!
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I know. I may have to look into that myself!
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It's kinda pricey.
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Linda and Chuck,
There’s an online virtual gallery showing some of the illustrations for The Dog and the Sailor created for an English language version of the original mid-1800s Danish folk tale here (https://bodegabijou.com/pages/the-dog-and-the-sailor), plus an accompanying 16-minute audio/visual presentation of the story, with narration and music, at the bottom of the page.
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Linda and Chuck — there’s an online virtual gallery showing some of the illustrations for The Dog and the Sailor created for an English language version of the original mid-1800s Danish folk tale here (https://bodegabijou.com/pages/the-dog-and-the-sailor), plus an accompanying 16-minute audio/visual presentation of the story, with narration and music, at the bottom of the page.
Oh, liked that a lot!
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Linda and Chuck,
There’s an online virtual gallery showing some of the illustrations for The Dog and the Sailor created for an English language version of the original mid-1800s Danish folk tale here (https://bodegabijou.com/pages/the-dog-and-the-sailor), plus an accompanying 16-minute audio/visual presentation of the story, with narration and music, at the bottom of the page.
Thanks so much, Paul. I loved it!!
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Thanks Paul! I'll have to check it out later tonight!
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TDS - 09/01/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2906637#msg2906637)
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Shakespeare bisexual? Not much surprise there!
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TDS - 09/08/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2908160;topicseen#msg2908160)
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Richard Grenell: What an embarrassment he's been.
I'm not sure I understand the first paragraph of that article:
Out former Trump administration official Richard Grenell had some stern words for journalists who tried to ask him about his failed global initiative to decriminalize homosexuality.
If he's a "former TA official", what has he got to do with a Kosovo-Serbia deal and answering questions about it at the White House now?
The article says: Grenell is currently working for an anti-LGBTQ Christian conservative organization and helping the Republican party with LGBTQ outreach.
Only in Trump's Republican party would that above sentence make any sense at all. This POS spoke at the RNC last week and during his "outreach to gay people" he implied that LGBTQ rights come “at the expense of others”. Trump finds the worst of humanity in every sector of it.
I like that the one reporter said to Grenell: “I don’t think any of us came here for a lecture about our questioning.”
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TDS - 09/15/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2909658#msg2909658)
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TDS - 09/22/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2911293#msg2911293)
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From TDS:
Since the year before the U.S. Supreme Court legalized same sex marriages,
the number of married same-sex households has increased by almost 70%.
It's true what the right wing fear mongers said, if gay marriage passed the country would go
to hell in a handbasket. Except that it wasn't because of marriage equality, it's because of their
voting preferences.
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Very true, Lyle.
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TDS - 09/29/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49498.msg2912988#msg2912988)
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I was wondering about his book about gay soldiers before and during DADT, so I went to his website and see that it's been pushed back to 2022. Looking forward to reading that.
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TDS - 10/06/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2914684#msg2914684)
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I'd heard about that Francis and the Godfather film, but I was wrong...
I just assumed Jake was playing Coppola and Isaac was playing Evans.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/b3/6b/5cb36bbcf04c18078e843b78ca121517.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTMG9wwqd_h0_1pv8l3BULyqQ0LfHb-7MTWqw&usqp=CAU)(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTQ2ODE2NDQ5OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTU3OTM1OQ@@._V1_.jpg)
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TDS - 10/13/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2916788#msg2916788)
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TDS - 10/20/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2918614#msg2918614)
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From a TDS story today:
Some LGBTQ advocates in the Tampa Bay region are alleging that the Hillsborough County sheriff has been targeting gay and bisexual men in a sex sting. In September, Hillsborough Sheriff Chad Chronister announced the arrests of 11 men with a series of sound bites posted in a YouTube video.
It sounds to some degree like the Sheriff IS using this as a kind of stunt to show he's fighting crime while he's up for re-election. Otherwise, if it is illegal then just do your job and don't politicize it. It didn't have to be made public and published in news sources.
I will say one thing: While the TV show COPS was on Fox for thirty years, the Florida Hillsborough County Sherriff's Department seemed to be a regular location for COPS episodes. Perhaps they miss the limelight.
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TDS - 10/27/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2920418#msg2920418)
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About the article today concerning the new Cary Grant biography:
The 2017 documentary titled Becoming Cary Grant delves into his psychiatry visits where he underwent "LSD therapy," and this documentary consists of audio from taped sessions from those visits.
I looked up the new biography on Amazon to see if they had the "Look Inside" feature. I wanted to see if the index included Orry-Kelly, the famed costume designer. There's a book and a 2015 documentary called Women He's Undressed where Orry-Kelly described his longtime relationship with Grant in their early days and I wanted to see if the new biography touched on that. As of now, that Look Inside feature isn't available.
I never saw Cary Grant in person, but I was at an event he was also at, but there were about 100,000 other people there, too, at the Los Angeles Coliseum! Heh!
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TDS - 11/03/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2922136#msg2922136)
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TDS - 11/10/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2924187#msg2924187)
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TDS - 11/17/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2926107#msg2926107)
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It's lovely to read about the LGBT films that are coming! Also I am impressed by the filmographies of the cast of Brokeback Mountain. Even some of those who had smaller roles in the film have since starred in many films and TV series.
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TDS - 11/24/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2927893#msg2927893)
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TDS - 12/01/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2929881#msg2929881)
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TDS - 12/08/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2931643#msg2931643)
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TDS - 12/15/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2933215#msg2933215)
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Re: Confrontation in Wyoming article in latest TDS.
Not surprised. Of all the states in the U.S., Wyoming had the largest vote percentage for Trump:
Wyoming
Cretin: 69.9%
Biden: 26.6%
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^^^ The Confrontation in Wyoming
The article chilled me to the core. Wyoming will always be remembered, by me at least, as responsible for creating the killers of Matthew Shepard. My gut wrenched and my spine chilled as I read the article. A lesbian couple threatened by an organized group of loud, hateful "neighbors" who I have no doubt have been encouraged and gaslit by the GoS's divisive rhetoric and hate speech. Of all places in the US, Wyoming, some 22 years after Shepar's killing, still has no hate crimes legislation - unbelievable. It's clear from the article, that many people in those wide expanses, are in the "live-and-let-live" category but it only takes a few loud, hate-spoken bigots to make one feel daily not welcome, not safe. That's no way to live your life - "ain't none of nobody's business but ours..."
“We can’t be protected by weapons,” Shannon said. “We have an alarm system, surveillance cameras, all of that, but that can only help so much. It gives you a small sense of reducing the risks. But the courts aren’t going to protect us. … It’s just a simple trespass. I guess I just never realized before how vulnerable we are.”
I just don't know what to think about the folks that voted for the GoS anymore and the hateful messages being loudly projected by the GoP. How these so-called "Christian" people can spout, promote and silently endorse such indecency, disrespect and vileness is beyond my understanding. Have they been absolutely and totally brainwashed? I just shake my head and wonder if we will be able to move past this in my lifetime with all the damages done without significant change of hearts, minds and attitudes that we've not seen in a generation.
^^^ The article about the skier Hig Roberts coming out is another reflection of what the Wyoming lesbian couple (above) is feeling. When what ought to be "live-and-let-live" gives way to the deep impacts of fear for your life, fear for your being and seeing hate expressed by people you respect - it's hard to just be. We need to always be aware of these impacts. Even what could have been a slight passing comment, which people make, has lasting, significant impact. My hat's off to this young man.
"[Being in the closet] took away a lot of the experience and the joy I could have experienced during this life and that’s a shame,” Roberts tells Out. “I had moments of standing on the podium with national titles and still feeling depressed. I was almost in a daze because of the mental anguish I would feel. I had sleepless nights. I had anxiety attacks. I had big bouts of depression. I had to closet all of that from my teammates and my coaches.”
:(.... V.
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^^^ The story linked in the above TDS on BBM impact on cinema is well written and is worth the read. They did get 1 thing wrong, most here will agree that our study says Jack's death was not accidental and not as conveyed by Laureen.
"However, when Ennis reflects on this information, the brutal scene of Jack being bludgeoned to death creeps into his imagination due to the traumatic events witnessed in his childhood. "
Gyllenhaal's quote is succinct and accurate. IDK if I've seen this quoted before.
Jake Gyllenhaal has been quoted saying, “That what ties these two characters together is not just love, but loneliness. I think primarily it was a deep loneliness. And what I always say about that movie [Brokeback Mountain], which I think maybe over time is more understood, is that this is about two people desperately looking for love. To be loved. And who were probably capable of it. And they just found it with someone of the same sex. And that does not dismiss the fact that it is about, really, primarily, the first kind of very profound gay love story. Hopefully, it can create equality of an idea: that is, it’s possible that you can find love anywhere. That intimacy exists in so many places that convention and society won’t always allow us to see. And we won’t allow ourselves to see, because of what criticism — and danger, really — it might provoke.” V.
From -> https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/brokeback-mountain-impact-on-cinema/ (https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/brokeback-mountain-impact-on-cinema/)
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TDS - 12/22/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2935050#msg2935050)
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TDS - 12/29/2020 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49505.msg2936666#msg2936666)
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Hello Everyone.
I'm taking a break from TDS this week. It should return next week.
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Thanks for all you do, Chuck!
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^^^ !!! Yes, TY!
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TDS - 01/12/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2940454#msg2940454)
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TDS - 01/19/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2942350#msg2942350)
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TDS - 01/26/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2944126#msg2944126)
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TDS - 02/02/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2946255#msg2946255)
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TDS - 02/09/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2948172#msg2948172)
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The Internet debates of Harry Styles' new film role are pretty interesting to read. While I don't feel that a celebrity owes it to the public to disclose what is his or her sexuality, it is fascinating that many of the Internet discussions show how important Harry's image is to the further discussion. The number of times I have seen people mention "queer baiting", oh my.
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TDS - 02/16/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2950184#msg2950184)
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The Internet debates of Harry Styles' new film role...
On TDS:
The film is being directed by Tony and Olivier Award winner Michael Grandage, and featuring a script from Oscar and Emmy nominee Ron Nyswaner.
Ron Nyswaner's script for Philadelphia, for which he was nominated for an Oscar, was not well received at the time by the gay community, which felt it was full of pandering to straight people's sensibilities. How much of that was due to the others involved in the making of the movie...the director, producers, actors, we may not know, nevertheless I recall many things written about this in gay media of the day and is what I remembered when I saw his name attached to this project.
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Thanks for elaborating on that, Lyle (Mooska)! I have learned something new from reading what you wrote.
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Værsågod!
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Veldig bra, Lyle!
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Is this a Veldig bra? ;)
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/cc/7f/ad/cc7fadf64d32d023b2346d278ce95879.jpg)
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;D
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TDS - 02/23/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2952468#msg2952468)
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Didn't notice the following comments until now.
Haha! Thanks for making me laugh out loud, Lyle (Mooska) and fritzkep! :laugh:
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;D
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Værsågod!
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TDS - 03/02/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2954200#msg2954200)
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TDS - 03/09/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2955981#msg2955981)
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TDS - 03/16/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2957941#msg2957941)
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TDS - 03/23/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.msg2959957#msg2959957)
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TDS - 03/30/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49516.new#new)
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Thank you Chuck for the writeup about Larry McMurtry.
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TDS - 04/06/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2963788#msg2963788)
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Thanks, Chuck!
___
Student Watches Brokeback Mountain, and Decides to Come Out
Diana would love this story.
And this guy's in Alabama of all places!!!
How times change; he says in one paragraph: "I was a freshman in high school and still closeted." Still! In times past it would be, I was out of college and still closeted.
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Oh, Lyle! What a great idea!
I'll post it to her Facebook page.
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^^^
Thumbs up! :)
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TDS - 04/13/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2966001#msg2966001)
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TDS - 04/20/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2968010#msg2968010)
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TDS - 04/27/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2969763#msg2969763)
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The article on intersex people, I was wondering what city they were talking about, it was only well into the referenced article that I found out it was NYC!
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TDS - 05/04/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2971645#msg2971645)
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TDS - 05/11/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2973604#msg2973604)
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TDS - 05/18/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2975552#new)
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TDS - 05/25/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2977389#msg2977389)
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TDS - 06/01/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2977389#msg2977389)
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TDS - 06/08/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2981542#msg2981542)
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TDS - 06/15/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2983577#msg2983577)
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TDS - 06/22/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2985033#msg2985033)
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TDS - 06/29/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49524.msg2987032#msg2987032)
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TDS - 07/06/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.0)
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TDS - 07/13/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg2990214#msg2990214)
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TDS - 07/20/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg2991916#msg2991916)
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TDS - 07/27/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg2993507#msg2993507)
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TDS - 08/03/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg2994907#msg2994907)
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So, I went to post today's TDS, and realized I never posted last week's TDS, even though it was finished!
How the hell did I do that? ??? ??? ???
So, here are links to last week's TDS, and this week's TDS! Sorry!
TDS - 08/10/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg2998307#msg2998307)
TDS - 08/17/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg2998309#msg2998309)
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TDS - 08/24/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg3000116#msg3000116)
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TDS - 08/30/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg3001828#msg3001828)
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TDS - 09/07/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg3002927#msg3002927)
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I had never heard the word audism before.
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I have to be honest, me neither.
Audism, belief that the ability to hear makes one superior to those with hearing loss. Those who support this perspective are known as audists, and they may be hearing or deaf. The term audism was coined in 1975 in an unpublished article written by American communication and language researcher Tom L. Humphries as a way to describe discrimination against persons who are deaf.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/audism
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What a moving story about Barbara Kannapell who passed away! Thanks for sharing it in the TDS. I would not have accessed it otherwise.
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TDS - 09/14/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg3003916#msg3003916)
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TDS - 09/21/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49529.msg3005005#msg3005005)
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TDS - 10/05/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49540.msg3007560#msg3007560)
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Hello Daily Sheet readers!
I didn't work on TDS this weekend, because I'm on 'Stay-cation' this week, so I figured I would have today to get this done. Well, this morning my computer started to act up, I have tech help scheduled later this evening, not sure what will need to be done.
So TDS is taking a hiatus this week, and will return next week!
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Thanks for all your work on it, Chuck.
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TDS - 10/26/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49540.msg3011704#msg3011704)
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I knew Ben Whishaw, the actor who plays Q in the old films, was gay, but it’s nice that Q has now been revealed as gay too. Not that I usually watch the Bond films nowadays, though I might see it eventually on television.
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^^^ Thanks for the tip. I've not seen the new "Bond" film... I'm saving my theater risk factor for "Dune" next weekend. I like most of Whishaw's work which expands way beyond "Q"... Stay safe, stay alive! V.
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I like BW a lot too.
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I have met Ben Whishaw (and seen him perform on two continents!) and he is an absolute love!
I love that Ben plays Q!
For LGBT friends, may I point out that in Skyfall, Javier Bardem's villainous Raoul Silva holds Bond (Daniel Craig) captive.
Silva strokes Bond's thighs and says, "First time for everything."
To which Bond replies, "What makes you think this is my first time?"
Here's the clip! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OfpsKemIWI)
Fanfic authors ate that up!
Also, I saw No Time to Die already and it was awesome!
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^^^ Gotta love IT! That scene was so well played.... 8)
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I liked that too!
Donna, what did you see Ben in?
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The Crucible on Broadway and Mojo in the West End. <3
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I have met Ben Whishaw (and seen him perform on two continents!) and he is an absolute love!
I love that Ben plays Q!
For LGBT friends, may I point out that in Skyfall, Javier Bardem's villainous Raoul Silva holds Bond (Daniel Craig) captive.
Silva strokes Bond's thighs and says, "First time for everything."
To which Bond replies, "What makes you think this is my first time?"
Here's the clip! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OfpsKemIWI)
Fanfic authors ate that up!
Also, I saw No Time to Die already and it was awesome!
I don't watch Bond films, I know, I know, odd! ::) Thanks for that clip though, great acting by both of them! ;D
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I used to love them. Whenever a new one came out it was a big event in our young lives! But I just don’t watch that sort of thing any more. Even though my name is Bond……. Sara Bond. ;)
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I used to love them. Whenever a new one came out it was a big event in our young lives! But I just don’t watch that sort of thing any more. Even though my name is Bond……. Sara Bond. ;)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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IMO, the Bond films used to be a lot of fun. Now they're a lot of angst and filmed in grays and blues or browns and yellows. Like a lot of movies, they use computers too much instead of filming in camera. That's one reason I've grown to like Tarantino's movies more. He likes to film in camera whenever possible.
What role did Ben play in The Crucible?
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IMO, the Bond films used to be a lot of fun. Now they're a lot of angst and filmed in grays and blues or browns and yellows. Like a lot of movies, they use computers too much instead of filming in camera. That's one reason I've grown to like Tarantino's movies more. He likes to film in camera whenever possible.
What role did Ben play in The Crucible?
John Proctor... the same role he played in a school production when he was 15 years old :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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TDS - 11/02/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49540.msg3013241#msg3013241)
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TDS - 11/09/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49540.msg3014607#msg3014607)
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TDS - 11/16/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49540.msg3016028#msg3016028)
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TDS - 11/23/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49540.msg3017310#msg3017310)
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I still think that David Harbour looks so much better with a beard!
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TDS - 11/30/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49540.msg3018541#msg3018541)
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TDS - 12/06/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49540.msg3020086#msg3020086)
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TDS - 12/14/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49540.msg3021497#msg3021497)
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(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/muscatinejournal.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/c9/9c94f0d2-1a3b-11e1-ad66-001cc4c002e0/4ed453b907def.image.jpg)
Ok, not really......I hate fishing!
But TDS is officially on break for the holidays! See you in 2022!
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Thanks, Chuck!
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Yes, thanks, Chuck and enjoy the respite!
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Enjoy your Christmas break, Chuck, and thanks as always! :-*
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^^^ Thanks so much for everything you (and many other do) to sustain UBF! Have a great, safe, holiday and New Year! V.
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Thanks everyone!
I hope there is a lot of good news to tell in 2022!
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TDS - 01/11/2021 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3027627#msg3027627)
Here is your first TDS of 2022! ;D
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Some comments:
--About: Banning certain surgeries performed on intersex children under the age of 12
“For three years, we’ve worked to advance legislation, and it’s become apparent that we continue to lack the votes to pass a meaningful bill — one that actually protects intersex people — through committee,” said the Senator in a statement on Tuesday. “Pausing medically unnecessary genital surgeries until a child is old enough to participate in the decision isn’t a radical idea. Rather, it’s about basic human dignity. I’m not giving up, and I stand in solidarity with the intersex community in its fight for bodily autonomy, dignity and choice.
I think it should be even older than 12. As people have always noted: Teenagers are not the best at THINKING through situations or problems they have no experience about. Typical parent throughout teenage years: "What were you thinking?"
--About: Anne Hathaways new film
Based on the 2015 novel, Eileen.
Set in Massachusetts at Christmastime 1964.
Centers on a depressed 24-year-old woman who is trapped between two roles: taking care of her alcoholic father and working at a boys' prison.
Eileen gets pulled into a crime that surpasses her wildest imaginings.
Something tells me Hallmark passed on this one.
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TDS - 01/17/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3029636#msg3029636)
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TDS - 01/25/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3031321#msg3031321)
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TDS - 02/01/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3033035#msg3033035)
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TDS - 02/15/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3036782#msg3036782)
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TDS - 02/22/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3037799#msg3037799)
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TDS - 03/01/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3038986#msg3038986)
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TDS - 03/08/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3040131#msg3040131)
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TDS - 03/15/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3041674#msg3041674)
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TDS - 03/22/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3043004#msg3043004)
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TDS - 03/29/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49548.msg3044337#msg3044337)
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TDS - 04/05/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3045780#msg3045780)
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TDS - 04/12/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3047178#msg3047178)
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TDS - 04/19/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3048235#msg3048235)
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TDS - 04/26/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3049376#msg3049376)
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TDS - 05/03/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3051126#msg3051126)
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TDS - 05/10/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3052584#msg3052584)
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TDS - 05/17/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3053713#msg3053713)
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TDS - 05/24/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3055498#msg3055498)
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It only makes sense that Batman would be bisexual:
https://mariness.livejournal.com/317670.html
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TDS - 05/31/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3057083#msg3057083)
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TDS - 06/07/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3058800#msg3058800)
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TDS - 06/14/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3060217#msg3060217)
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TDS - 06/21/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49553.msg3061717#msg3061717)
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My remembrance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1CzvPxLGs4)
~~~fia
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Thanks Bob! This is a great vid!
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TDS - 07/05/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.0)
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TDS - 07/12/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3066430#msg3066430)
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TDS - 07/19/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3068163#msg3068163)
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TDS - 07/26/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3069663#msg3069663)
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Proulx's comments are direct and succinct. 2 min read. TY! V .
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TDS - 08/02/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3071168#msg3071168)
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TDS - 08/09/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3072493#msg3072493)
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TDS - 08/16/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3073836#msg3073836)
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TDS - 08/23/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3075274#msg3075274)
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TDS - 08/30/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3076885;topicseen#msg3076885)
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TDS - 09/06/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3078308#msg3078308)
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TDS - 09/13/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3079920#msg3079920)
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TDS - 09/20/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3081396#msg3081396)
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^^^ Bros (2022) Certainly looks very interesting!! Thanks for posting. Macfarlane and Eichner look well matched!! :o V.
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Thanks Vincent! I thought it looked interesting too.
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TDS - 09/27/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49561.msg3082737#msg3082737)
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Regarding your article on Dietrich, here's my 2021 article on her:
https://www.ebar.com/story.php?ch=bartab&sc=barchive&id=300492
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thanks for the link, Michael. I really enjoyed the article.
I loved this quote.
"The announcement [that she was coming to Montreal] unleashed a frenzy of excitement that only a concert combining C�line Dion and Madonna might match today," recalls Banks, now 67. "The night itself — well, it was Halloween and there were more Dietrichs to be seen on the streets of Montreal [in the city's then-downtown Gay Village] than men in trousers, though quite a few of the Dietrich impersonators were wearing trousers too!"
I wonder if the young gay community of today knows how much of an icon she was.
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I wonder if the young gay community of today knows how much of an icon she was.
Thanks Chuck! I rather doubt that they do. I discovered quite a bit more than I initially knew while researching that article. What I really wanted to convey is that she kept alive the spirit of sexual experimentation that existed in prewar Germany. I think people miss that about her too!
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TDS - 10/11/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3085406#msg3085406)
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Swiped the Laugh For the Day!
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;D Glad you liked it!
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There was an interview with Annie Proulx about her new book on NPR this morning.
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/11/1127959575/annie-proulx-book-wetlands
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Thanks for the link, Fritz!
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TDS - 10/18/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3086761#msg3086761)
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^^^ Very good articles Chuck... hard to believe it's been 25 years since BBM was published.... WTF is our time going? The story on Eleanor Roosevelt is also intriguing... there's always been hearsay swirling around her and Lorena Hickok. When we toured the Roosevelt homeplace a few years ago... we got to see Eleanor's cottage and that point, I recall, it may have been briefly mentioned them as "very, close friends...." Hurray for them both - back then - with those spotlights. People then may have been more willing to accept them in the "live and let live" spirit though there was still violence toward GBLTQIA peoples and no laws to protect minority groups at all...
We need more folks like FDR and Eleanor these days. Worthy read. Thanks. V.
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Thanks, Vincent! I'm glad you liked them!
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TDS - 10/25/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3088378#msg3088378)
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TDS - 11/01/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3089934#msg3089934)
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Thanks for the link about the gay mountain climbers, posted that to my FB page!
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You're welcome, Fritz!
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TDS - 11/08/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3090877#msg3090877)
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Well that was a pleasant surprise Chuck! Thank you!
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Well that was a pleasant surprise Chuck! Thank you!
You're welcome!
From the comments on the forum, members enjoy reading your articles, so they deserve a spotlight.
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TDS - 11/14/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3092002#msg3092002)
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TDS - 11/22/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3092979#msg3092979)
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TDS - 11/22/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3094669#msg3094669)
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So...regarding lesbian bars...the old saying has always been that when gay men catch a cold that lesbians get pneumonia - meaning that whatever affects us affects them more. And the number of gay bars (and the gayborhood generally) has been shrinking since the 90s. To a certain extent with gay men that is because there was a demographic dive caused by the AIDS epidemic. But because there were less older gay men around there was less "enculturation" going on. In other words cultural habits didn't get passed on.
But with lesbians there is probably something economic involved as well. Lesbians are more often involved in child rearing, so they have to watch their budgets more. And anytime there is an economic downturn there have been problems with the "lesbian community" (such as it is).
The whole theory of "nesting" makes a little sense if you consider that more people might be getting married and not going out as much now. There are also other considerations. If you're going out to a bar now you either have to make accomodations to have someone drive or Uber/Lyft/taxi home. And that can add up. Lesbian bar owners that I have known often have said that there is less of an economic base there - that women can nurse a drink for hours.
The other thing generally happening is that urban commercial rents have gone up. Unless you own your building that makes it difficult to select your client base. Years ago (about 10 now) I was doing an article about a bar and I said something about it being a gay bar and the (gay male) owner said: "oh, don't call it a gay bar - straight people won't come in and we need their business to say open - you can say we're gay friendly."
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- that women can nurse a drink for hours.
Men doctor them, according to many straight women.
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TDS - 12/13/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3097894#msg3097894)
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TDS - 12/20/2022 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49566.msg3099075#msg3099075)
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(https://i.etsystatic.com/10175083/r/il/e2f50a/2783713959/il_340x270.2783713959_sslm.jpg)
TDS is taking a vacation for the holidays.
The next new edition will be posted for January 10th.
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TDS - 01/09/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3102201#msg3102201)
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^^ Succinct summary. TY for posting -> " The story explores the consequences of not outgrowing a tendency to escape from what makes one truly happy due to societal factors." What a helluva consequence.
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Sorry to be picky, but you’d think they could spell Ennis’s name correctly! And it’s “whose”, not “who’s” (in this case).
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;D ;)
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TDS - 01/24/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3105567#msg3105567)
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TDS - 01/31/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3106910#msg3106910)
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TDS - 02/07/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3108490#msg3108490)
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TDS - 02/14/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3109918#msg3109918)
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TDS - 02/21/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3111191#msg3111191)
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^^^ TY for posting about President Carter and his work for the GBLTQIA+ community. Few realize all the works he accomplished while in and _since_ leaving office. I hope history will be kinder to him than just recalling the "hostage" saga that essentially cost him the election. V.
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TDS - 02/27/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3112798;topicseen#msg3112798)
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^^^ Well stated by Williams, "“My experience maybe is that the perception that the film could change was for men to see themselves in love with each other,” the actor said.
“That that was a perception, that that love, I think, offered a kind of self-love that hadn’t been given to them in cinema before.” Williams went on to praise Ledger and Gyllenhaal, telling Vanity Fair:
“I think that what the two boys did was at the time incredibly brave. And maybe even now still would be considered brave. I don’t know. But I know that that wasn’t really on my shoulders … like in the way that it was on theirs.”"
TY for posting that link!
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You're welcome!
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TDS - 03/07/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3114103#msg3114103)
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TDS - 03/14/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3115057#msg3115057)
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Chuck! Thank you for doing TDS so tirelessly after all these years!! :-*
I really enjoyed the brokeback revisited article by James Hughes. Well, look what the wind blew in.
I’m always curious as to who is discovering BBM for the first time now that it’s no longer new. For us it was a revelation. Could it be that others are feeling that way too? I’ve yet to meet anyone that has seen it for first time, in recent years. I have met a TON of people that have never seen it before, and some that have never even heard of it! Boggles the mind.
I’m hoping to find it again on the big screen. Maybe during pride month they’ll play it at one of our local old theaters. Sacramento has the great Tower Theatre, and they screen classic movies all the time. If Brokeback plays, I’m rounding up a whole bunch of BBM newbies for sure. :laugh:
(The Tower Theatre, built in 1938, is a Sacramento, California landmark and the oldest remaining, continuously running picture palace.)
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Chuck! Thank you for doing TDS so tirelessly after all these years!! :-*
Amen to that, Chuck!
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^^^^ x 1000! TY Chuck! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thoughts and karma your way! V.
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It's good to know that TDS still has readers! :) As long as you come around, I'll put a new one out each week.
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Chuck, The first link on "Brokeback Mountain Revisited" is a REALLY good read. The article surfaced a few things I'd NEVER noticed in the film, even after seeing all these times..., but will certainly now go look for now! It reflects on and reminds me again what makes this film so powerful, telling and true-to-our-lives.
Highly recommended reading -> https://www.filmink.com.au/well-look-what-the-wind-blew-in-ang-lees-brokeback-mountain/ (https://www.filmink.com.au/well-look-what-the-wind-blew-in-ang-lees-brokeback-mountain/) V.
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Chuck, The first link on "Brokeback Mountain Revisited" is a REALLY good read. The article surfaced a few things I'd NEVER noticed in the film, even after seeing all these times..., but will certainly now go look for now! It reflects on and reminds me again what makes this film so powerful, telling and true-to-our-lives.
Highly recommended reading -> https://www.filmink.com.au/well-look-what-the-wind-blew-in-ang-lees-brokeback-mountain/ (https://www.filmink.com.au/well-look-what-the-wind-blew-in-ang-lees-brokeback-mountain/) V.
Thanks, Vince - an excellent article!
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TDS - 03/21/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3115971#msg3115971)
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TDS - 03/28/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49576.msg3116874#msg3116874)
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TDS - 04/11/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3116876#msg3116876)
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TDS - 04/18/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3121413#msg3121413)
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TDS - 04/25/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3123172#msg3123172)
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TDS - 05/02/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3124554#msg3124554)
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^^^ Chuck, THANKS for posting! The "gay cowboy" article was a GREAT read! (Recommended). Below it was another by her WRT "Strange Way of Life"
https://www.themarysue.com/strange-way-of-life-release-window-trailer-cast-plot-and-more/
Thanks! V.
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There were NO April SHOWERS here, so we'll see if MAY flowers arrive!! :o :o :o
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TDS - 05/09/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3126125#msg3126125)
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In spite of all it's good work supporting LGBTIQA+ people, the Victorian government is dragging its feet on one essential measure: outlawing hate speech against us.
There has been a string of actions by far-right groups who have adopted the tactic of American groups to shut down community-based events such as drag queen story time for families. Municipal councils have cancelled events because of death threats and concerns about public safety.
Anti-discrimination laws have long since criminalised racial and religious hate speech. A minor party member of the Legislative Council who was not re-elected last yearned a bill ready to go and a parliamentary committee came up with a set of supportive recommendations which have not been published. The Attorney-General has said her department is too busy with working on other important legislation to outlaw anti-LGBTIQA+ hate speech for I think another 18 months.
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Hope no one gets killed in the mean time.
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"Over the past decade, The Game Awards' orchestral performances have become a fan-favorite part of each year's program, and we're so excited to bring that experience to life, in-person, at the Hollywood Bowl with the LA Phil to commemorate our 10th Game Awards show."
I didn't know video games had scores that were anything but background filler until the movie Tár came out and I found out the concert she was conducting in the end scenes was from a video game, nor that Gustavo had delved into this, albeit it was connected to the series he worked on.
I didn't even know the Hollywood Bowl has been having these concerts for a decade! Also, I don't think I care about any of this, LOL!
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TDS - 05/16/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3127341#msg3127341)
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TDS - 05/23/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3128399#msg3128399)
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Hello members!
There will not be a new TDS this week. What originally started as a quiet weekend, got packed with invites to different gatherings, so I haven't had the time to work on one this weekend.
It will return next weekend.
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Thanks once again for all the work you do for us, Chuck!
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TDS - 06/06/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3130434#msg3130434)
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TDS - 06/13/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3131470#msg3131470)
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TDS - 06/20/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49583.msg3132525#msg3132525)
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TDS - 07/04/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3134458#msg3134458)
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TDS - 07/11/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3135300#msg3135300)
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TDS - 07/18/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3136225#msg3136225)
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I still think that a musical with the music of Shawn and Ryan would be wonderful. Maybe with a few additional pieces.
And swiped the laugh for FB!
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I still think that a musical with the music of Shawn and Ryan would be wonderful. Maybe with a few additional pieces.
I agree with you, Fritz. I've thought that since the first time I listened to it.
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I think that would work!
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TDS - 07/25/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3137171#msg3137171)
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TDS - 08/01/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3138508#msg3138508)
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It would seem that the library pride protesters who proclaimed in writing that they intend to keep the items checked out from the library have opened themselves to a charge of stealing public property.
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^^^ At this point, there's a "Fox Lies" basket case in every corner... I hope the library sends them a bill for the books they've "permanently borrowed" SOBs.. Maybe the counter should be to removed all the damn religious books from the shelves - especially the "Holy" Bible.. ;) Two can play at that game.
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TDS - 08/08/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3139961#msg3139961)
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TDS - 08/15/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3141509#msg3141509)
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TDS - 08/22/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3142668#msg3142668)
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TDS - 08/29/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3143942#msg3143942)
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TDS - 09/05/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3145792#msg3145792)
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TDS - 09/12/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3147759#msg3147759)
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TDS - 09/12/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3147759#msg3147759)
I don't get the "ace bear." If he's asexual, why is he sending somebody a dick-pic? Why is he flirting? Why does he care if other men find him attractive? And how can you be ace and still have sex in situations that sound to me very much like tricking?
As I was reading what he had to say about himself, sending the dick-pic and flirting, a very unpleasant term popped into my mind (fill in the vowels): c _ c k t _ _ s _.
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^^^ Yeah that article seened a bit OFF too! V
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^^^ Yeah that article seened a bit OFF too! V
Thanks. I appreciate knowing that someone else found it a bit off, too.
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TDS - 09/19/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3148929#msg3148929)
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TDS - 09/26/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49586.msg3149821#msg3149821)
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I remember one of the characters in the Howdy Doody Show back in the early days of TV, an "Indian princess" named Summerfall Winterspring.
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I vaguely remember her as well
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TDS - 10/03/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3150841#msg3150841)
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TDS - 10/10/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3152519#msg3152519)
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Moved Jeff's post here.
That French-Swiss "polemicist" AB/AS is clearly an A _ _ h _ _ _, but it looks to me like he's being sent to jail for name-calling. I find that concerning, not a "victory."
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TDS - 10/17/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3154057#msg3154057)
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Hello everyone!
I got caught up in watching the figure skating this weekend, so I didn't work on TDS. It will return next week.
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Thanks for all your work on it, Chuck!
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Thanks for all your work on it, Chuck!
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;D
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TDS - 10/31/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3156823#msg3156823)
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TDS - 11/07/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3158522#msg3158522)
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TDS - 11/14/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3159889#msg3159889)
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TDS - 11/21/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3161718#msg3161718)
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TDS - 11/28/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3163540#msg3163540)
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TDS - 12/05/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3165048#msg3165048)
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^^^ 18 years! WOW! Just WOW! ... "Ain't no reins on this this one....?" V.
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Astonishing. Where did the years go?
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^^^
After that linked article about the BBM Premiere, did you notice the next article?
Charles Melton on Channeling Heath Ledger’s ‘Brokeback Mountain’ Performance
for ‘May December’ and Wearing a Prosthetic for Nine Hours
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^^^ I did now! I scrolled thru many of the photos below the original artcile. Those were worth a look too! By the end of that shoot, he had to be dehydrated - not drinking the proper amounts of water for 9+ hours. V.
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TDS - 12/12/2023 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49589.msg3166135#msg3166135)
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(https://www.reachoutoregon.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/istockphoto-1333471675-170667a.jpg)
Hello TDS readers!
TDS offices will be closed for the holidays. ;D TDS will return to you all at the start of 2024!
See ya then!
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Thanks for all your work, Chuck! Enjoy the Christmas season and have a peaceful New Year!
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^^^ TDS / Chuck THANKS SO MUCH! Always a great job! Enjoy the holidays! V.
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TDS - 01/02/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.0)
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TDS - 01/09/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3170260#msg3170260)
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TDS - 01/16/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3171000#msg3171000)
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TDS - 01/23/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3172400#msg3172400)
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TDS - 01/30/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3173882#msg3173882)
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TDS - 02/06/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3175340#msg3175340)
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TDS - 02/13/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3176840#msg3176840)
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TDS - 02/20/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3178166#msg3178166)
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TDS - 02/27/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3179742#msg3179742)
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TDS - 03/05/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3180960#msg3180960)
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TDS - 03/12/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3182546#msg3182546)
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TDS - 03/26/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49596.msg3185588#msg3185588)
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TDS - 04/02/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49600.msg3187518#msg3187518)
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TDS - 04/09/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49600.msg3189011#msg3189011)
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^^^ Thanks so much for posting the Oliver Stark link. Loved the context and his words ring too true. Yeah, I agree b/c I thought 9-1-1 has been "queer baiting" the fans for years - a bit anyways. His post provides more context.
"“And I think that’s kind of the story that we’re able to start to tell here, is that Buck isn’t consciously aware of the thing that he’s looking for or what’s lacking in his life,” Stark shared with Us. “And as he hopefully starts to discover that it’s this cathartic, liberating feeling of just being able to ease into it and breathe out this big sigh of relief at last.”
And a message for the haters: "“If you are one of the smaller group of people commenting on my posts about how this has ruined the show, I would like you to know that I truly don’t care,” he wrote. “This is a show about love and inclusion. It’s featured queer relationships from he very beginning including a beautiful Black lesbian marriage played out by two of the best actresses I’ve ever watched.” Later, V.
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I'm glad you liked the story on Oliver Stark.
;D
Just dropping a quick note to say I won't be posting a TDS this week, it will be back next week.
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TDS - 04/23/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49600.msg3191351#msg3191351)
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TDS - 04/30/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49600.msg3193030#msg3193030)
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TDS - 05/07/2024 (https://ultimatebrokebackforum.com/index.php?topic=49600.msg3194602#msg3194602)