LGBTQ related news and issues

[michaelflanagansf]

Thanks Neil, that's certainly true - Kinsey measures absolutes.  And it's also been criticized for fixing people with identities as opposed to dealing with how people are acting at a particular time in their life.  There is an alternative to this, it's called the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_Sexual_Orientation_Grid

Both Kinsey and Klein are interesting as they are sexologists who spent their whole lives researching these topics and attempting to put them in the realm of science.

Thanks Micheal. What I see from bothe Kinsey's and Klein's scales is that it's next to impossible to measure this accurately. All that could possibly be done is evalute the people who consider themselves as definately gay TODAY!

Perhaps, Jean, but I think there is a real bias against the social sciences.  Part of the reason they do blind (and double blind) surveys is to get around peoples fears and biases.  And when survey statistics repeatedly report similar things it seems (to me at least) to add to their weight.  And it's not like these individuals are (necessarily) homophobic - Kinsey himself was bisexual.

[merrobot]

Thanks Neil, that's certainly true - Kinsey measures absolutes.  And it's also been criticized for fixing people with identities as opposed to dealing with how people are acting at a particular time in their life.  There is an alternative to this, it's called the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_Sexual_Orientation_Grid

Both Kinsey and Klein are interesting as they are sexologists who spent their whole lives researching these topics and attempting to put them in the realm of science.

That's very interesting, Michael! 

I would hazard a guess that people might classify people by behaviour not identity because (a) pre-1970s the social sciences (or at least psychology) were dominated by 'behaviourists' and (b) identity is much harder to define - in the same circumstances one person might identify as gay/lesbian while another identifies as bisexual.  There is also a tendency to assume that behaviour (being 'observable') is more objective and measurable than 'identity' which is a set of beliefs/attitudes and therefore 'subjective' and more difficult to conceptualise and measure.  That being said, I think the recent advances in social sciences and again in psychology would probably make a new study in this area a very interesting endevour   

[michaelflanagansf]

That being said, I think the recent advances in social sciences and again in psychology would probably make a new study in this area a very interesting endevour   

I agree!  I also don't know why they haven't tried surveying people while testing physical responses - particularly to stimuli.

[MonteCristo]

You all may be moving on but I seem to be stuck on the Public Displays of Affection idea.  Last night I was thinking about it and recalled that the most negative reaction I've ever experienced from a PDA was something that happened when our family stopped for a bite to eat on a road trip. My granddaughter was 3 years old then---shes 17 now.  At our booth in the restaurant she was crawling all over me because I am/was(he says proudly)her favorite person.  I was cuddling and kissing her which is what I always do.  I happened to look up and a 30ish couple at another booth were watching us with very strong looks of disgust.  It suddenly hit me that they thought I was a dirty old man getting his jollies with a baby.  I suddenly felt sick.  Those dirty minded people turned a perfectly innocent moment into something sleazy.  Later on I realized that I should have just hollered to them:  "It's ok, I'm queer".  Of course I could never do that but it makes me chuckle thinking about it.

Monte

Monte

[lowcountrygirl]

Thanks Neil, that's certainly true - Kinsey measures absolutes.  And it's also been criticized for fixing people with identities as opposed to dealing with how people are acting at a particular time in their life.  There is an alternative to this, it's called the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klein_Sexual_Orientation_Grid

Both Kinsey and Klein are interesting as they are sexologists who spent their whole lives researching these topics and attempting to put them in the realm of science.

That's very interesting, Michael! 

I would hazard a guess that people might classify people by behaviour not identity because (a) pre-1970s the social sciences (or at least psychology) were dominated by 'behaviourists' and (b) identity is much harder to define - in the same circumstances one person might identify as gay/lesbian while another identifies as bisexual.  There is also a tendency to assume that behaviour (being 'observable') is more objective and measurable than 'identity' which is a set of beliefs/attitudes and therefore 'subjective' and more difficult to conceptualise and measure.  That being said, I think the recent advances in social sciences and again in psychology would probably make a new study in this area a very interesting endevour   

Hmm.

I made a little grid based on the Klein scale...




                                                    Present (past 12mos)                          Past (up to 12 mos ago)                          Ideal (future)


Sexual Attraction                                      6                                                             3(?)                                                 7


Sexual Behavior                                       7                                                             2                                                     7


Sexual Fantasies                                      3                                                             2                                                     5


Emotional Preference                              4-5                                                          3-4                                                   5


Social Preference                                     7                                                             3                                                     5


I see the way it creates more choices, so is not as rigid, maybe, as the Kinsey Scale. But I don't really see how you would put all this info together to mean anything.

[sugarcheryl]

You all may be moving on but I seem to be stuck on the Public Displays of Affection idea.  Last night I was thinking about it and recalled that the most negative reaction I've ever experienced from a PDA was something that happened when our family stopped for a bite to eat on a road trip. My granddaughter was 3 years old then---shes 17 now.  At our booth in the restaurant she was crawling all over me because I am/was(he says proudly)her favorite person.  I was cuddling and kissing her which is what I always do.  I happened to look up and a 30ish couple at another booth were watching us with very strong looks of disgust.  It suddenly hit me that they thought I was a dirty old man getting his jollies with a baby.  I suddenly felt sick.  Those dirty minded people turned a perfectly innocent moment into something sleazy.  Later on I realized that I should have just hollered to them:  "It's ok, I'm queer".  Of course I could never do that but it makes me chuckle thinking about it.

Monte

Monte

Awww Monte....that story actually kinda pissed me off. Never have I or would I think something like that about innocent loving between and parent/grandparent and their child. I do however sorta understand what those people might of been thinking. Todays society puts those thoughts into our heads.....even 15 years ago, unfortunatly. Its just too damn bad. But these people also should of noticed the way in which your granddaughter was carrying on. IF she was a victim she wouldnt of been "happy" crawling all over you for loves....she would of been pushing away from you and not a willing participant. So in that case....I would of gave them a "this is none of your damn business, go back to eating your waffles" look. lol!

[shelber]

wow! thats all i can say

i kind of disappeared from my own thread, and now look at it. its been a few pages since i last checked in, lots of posts. to be honest i quit popping by because i didnt like the tense feeling i had, i thought that i had started something that ended with others having hurt feelings, i had debated about whether i should ask a mod to delete the whole thing, but i am glad i didnt. i love how its got so many new thoughts and posts, thanks for keeping it going!

[maidenofthesea]

wow! thats all i can say

i kind of disappeared from my own thread, and now look at it. its been a few pages since i last checked in, lots of posts. to be honest i quit popping by because i didnt like the tense feeling i had, i thought that i had started something that ended with others having hurt feelings, i had debated about whether i should ask a mod to delete the whole thing, but i am glad i didnt. i love how its got so many new thoughts and posts, thanks for keeping it going!

We love you hun! 

[chiaros]

... why civil unions still don't cut it and still count as a "dodge" by reluctant legislatures (and societies?)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/nyregion/13civil.html?ref=nyregion

[chiaros]

Re: the Imus flap and the double standards society has:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/opinion/13fierstein.html?hp

[john john]

Re: the Imus flap and the double standards society has:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/opinion/13fierstein.html?hp

That's very good. Thanks Chiaros.

[lowcountrygirl]

Re: the Imus flap and the double standards society has:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/13/opinion/13fierstein.html?hp

That's very good. Thanks Chiaros.

Fantastic article!!

[michaelflanagansf]

Thought you might all find this article from Salon about the 'Day of Silence' interesting:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2007/04/19/day_of_silence/index.html

[estefue]

And so it goes.  When so much is going on in the world this is what they focus on.

[lowcountrygirl]

That article certainly makes it clear that society is not so accepting! The part that particularly saddens me is the part about the girl being suspended because of other people's reactions to her.

I get the impression that they were not suspended!