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OUR COMMUNITY => Hot Topics => Topic started by: killersmom on July 26, 2013, 04:08:49 PM

Title: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on July 26, 2013, 04:08:49 PM
Well, a new thread should have been opened up at the beginning of 2013, but since it wasn't and we have filled up this thread to 500 pages, it is time to close the previous one and open a new one. So, as the title says, this thread is for the remainder of 2013 and as far as we can go into 2014.

I will leave the previous thread unlocked for a few days, in case anyone wants to quote from that thread and discuss it here. Just hit the quote button like usual, and cut and paste the quote and bring it to this new thread. Make sure to do it this way so that the discussion may be brought forward to the new thread and not posted in the old one.

Same rules apply.
News and current events discussions.
Be neighborly to one another!!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on July 28, 2013, 05:25:07 PM
Hi Linda --

Thanks for the new thread, and I just want to say that I am also sorry to hear of JJ Cale passing. I liked is records, he had a good sound.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on July 28, 2013, 05:38:14 PM
Sounds great about the meteor shower! Unfortunately over here it's one of the haziest times of the year, so the skies will not be very clear.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on July 28, 2013, 07:52:25 PM
Thanks Linda
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on July 29, 2013, 03:20:25 AM
Best times for the meteor shower will be midnight, and I'll be in bed both nights.  Work the following days.

Oh well.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on July 29, 2013, 10:22:32 AM
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Hastings-01_zpseb63ce21.jpg)

Was journalist Michael Hastings murdered?
Let's recap.
A journalist, with a history of taking down major figures and royally pissing off the powers that be, sends an email to his editors warning them that federal agents have been interviewing his associates and that he has to go off-radar to finish a big story.
What was the big story? For some reason the subject line of the email, which read "FBI investigation, re: NSA" has been persistently ignored. It certainly seems to suggest that his "big story" was related to the National Security Agency.
Shortly thereafter he dies in a fiery car crash. This crash is swiftly ruled an accident, however there are no skid marks to indicate braking, an eyewitness says he saw flames and sparks before the car left the road and video appears to show his car exploding into a fireball before it goes out of control and hits a tree.

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/ethan-cox/2013/07/was-journalist-michael-hastings-murdered#.UfWjNZgqoAQ.facebook

The answer: Yes, he was murdered.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on July 29, 2013, 12:36:23 PM
.....The answer: Yes, he was murdered.
   It looks like that is true, and also, that it was an act of state terrorism.

*******
  Meanwhile, de Pope has made some historic remarks about gays.  "If a man is gay and seeks God, who am I to judge him?". He also said gays should not be marginalized or suffer discrimination.  But then said the problem was "lobbies".  Gays, Freemasons, corporate interests.  What's up with the Freemason bit, dunno.  Do know, the pope is a Jesuit, and should have known that he would be misunderstood about lobbies.  He well knows people have a right to organize for personal rights and has encouraged that. But the "lobbies' was probably a reference to a single-minded agenda that is sold for personal convenience or, as he said, for profit. He'll figure out he got that one wrong.
  As for homosexual acts being a sin, he'll never be understood by non-Catholics, there.  Everything non-spiritual is, by church tradition, sinful, as being materialistic. And, yes, that could include Bingo  :).  He did NOT say sexual acts barred one from the Church or from God.  He was upholding the spiritual versus the carnal, while accepting, that we are always unable to meet that goal.  Straights get the same tap on the wrist.
 The story should be on HuffPo soon, and, taken in context, is signalling an historic shift, with reservations, towards support of gay rights.  It is BIG news. But misunderstood all too easily.  He will condemn even more forcefully, gay bashing.  He has before, and, he will very likely, soon, blast the African and Russian atrocities.
  IMO, where it is possible, people should take "yes" for an answer. In Catholic lingo, he has said "yes".
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on July 29, 2013, 01:08:41 PM
 Yeah, HuffPo has picked up the story: "Pope OK with gays".  Over-simplification.
 He's NOT happy with Freemasons and Haliburton  ::).  Oy-vay, what an interview.
Also, the joke about not seeing anyone yet, in the Vatican, with a name-tag "I'm gay", was probably an Argentinian yuk-yuk.

  Bradley Manning gets his verdict tomorrow.  I hope the pope gets into condemning those who are trying to enforce the Orwellian-state lobby/agenda.  Now THAT would be a great help, in another direction.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on July 29, 2013, 03:08:42 PM
 I hope it's a 3 post limit, or else, am over the line.
Anyway, there's much more going on with the Pope's shifting tone and substance.  There are political implications in the U.S., as this may be the end of Pat Robertson's grand political alliance of Catholics and fundamentalist Protestants. The pope had already said (and I didn't know this), that abortion and gay marriage, as Big No's, were not on his agenda.  The theological issues there, he said, were understood.  Instead, he said the church must move to service and inclusion, and brotherhood.  I also didn't know he'd ruffled feathers by saying atheists could go to heaven (sorry, Gil,  :D ). The  impertinence !
  Very interesting, his saying the door was closed to women in the priesthood, but that it was urgent to include women in the leadership, and not as tokens. There had to be change.  Where is he going with that?
 And, in other news, I just heard who the Israeli negotiator is for a peace treaty: Tzipi Livni !  My sweetheart  :). I had her page on Facebook but had to cancel it (unending Hebrew news releases).  She has a conservative background but is now a peace activist, and Bibi's worst nightmare in their last election.  This could mean, there are stronger chances of a peace treaty!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on July 29, 2013, 03:22:00 PM
The supposed reason for not ordaining women is that the faithful cannot see Jesus if they look to the altar and see a non-male there.

It will still take decades or centuries, but at some point even the most misogynistic priest won't be able to look at a woman and not see the image of Jesus in her.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on July 29, 2013, 04:15:28 PM
  I hope it is sooner, rather than later.  Otherwise, we'll all end up Episcopalians  :D.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on July 29, 2013, 04:59:52 PM
 :D  :D  :D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on July 30, 2013, 02:00:35 PM
The supposed reason for not ordaining women is that the faithful cannot see Jesus if they look to the altar and see a non-male there.ee the image of Jesus in her.

Really?  That's the reason?
I never heard that before.

(Sounds like an excuse, too.)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on July 30, 2013, 02:37:03 PM
The answer: Yes, he was murdered.

It looks like that is true, and also, that it was an act of state terrorism.

I occasionally wonder why people feel they have to have definitive answers and so choose one.
The truth is, neither of you really know what happened.

Even the person who wrote the article says:

"I have no idea what happened to Michael Hastings, and it's certainly both possible and reasonable that
his accident was solely due to his own error or a mechanical fault. In fact, that's probably the most likely
explanation."


The article keeps talking about the improbability of cars catching on fire so quickly and/or exploding and yet
they do all the time. Here's one:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLoF99LYdts

A guy saw a car on fire outside his apartment and took cellphone video of it.  The car exploded.
Then, of course, you see commenters on the video writing that it's fake. The firemen were in on it.
Etc. (That wasn't you two, was it?) Google Los Angeles car fires and pages of photos pop up.


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on July 30, 2013, 04:20:55 PM
Really?  That's the reason?
I never heard that before.

(Sounds like an excuse, too.)


I've always heard that it was "because" Jesus picked 12 male apostles, so that's why all priests are male.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on July 30, 2013, 04:54:57 PM
  Lyle, I had supposed cars exploding in fireballs were not absolutely unique.  I can't believe, though, that this is a routine occurrence in L.A., as otherwise the residents, there, have acclimated themselves to the odd ka-boom, semi-routine, and very annoying during tv or skateboarding, or whatever.
 So, given the millions of autos there, it must be a matter of %'s.  And so, maybe the likelihood somewhere at .0000000001?
But then, what % for reporters that break unusual stories?
And what % for reporters saying something was up and they gave warning of the same, 24 hours before?
.0000000000000000000000000000000000000.......1?
This strains credulity.
But.  The Flat Earth Society could still be right  :).  Statistical possibilities, however remote?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on July 30, 2013, 07:40:10 PM
  I hope it is sooner, rather than later.  Otherwise, we'll all end up Episcopalians  :D.

And what's wrong with being an Episcopalian?  >:(

 :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on July 30, 2013, 08:34:29 PM
I occasionally wonder why people feel they have to have definitive answers and so choose one.
The truth is, neither of you really know what happened.

Even the person who wrote the article says:

"I have no idea what happened to Michael Hastings, and it's certainly both possible and reasonable that
his accident was solely due to his own error or a mechanical fault. In fact, that's probably the most likely
explanation."


The article keeps talking about the improbability of cars catching on fire so quickly and/or exploding and yet
they do all the time. Here's one:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLoF99LYdts

A guy saw a car on fire outside his apartment and took cellphone video of it.  The car exploded.
Then, of course, you see commenters on the video writing that it's fake. The firemen were in on it.
Etc. (That wasn't you two, was it?) Google Los Angeles car fires and pages of photos pop up.




cars don't explode .
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on July 30, 2013, 08:37:30 PM
  Oops.  Nothing, Jeff.  Episcopalians are just fine.
But for me, in Virginia, it would mean different clothes, and scrumbling up more money somewhere.  Also, back to golfing and yachts.  It's a Southern Virginia thingie  :P....
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on July 31, 2013, 07:07:15 AM
 Oops.  Nothing, Jeff.  Episcopalians are just fine.
But for me, in Virginia, it would mean different clothes, and scrumbling up more money somewhere.  Also, back to golfing and yachts.  It's a Southern Virginia thingie  :P....

Oh, I'm sure! That reputation isn't limited to Southern Virginia. It's why I try very hard to ignore that the church I go to on Sundays is Episcopal.  >:D  I was just pulling your chain. I apologize for that.  :">
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on July 31, 2013, 09:52:55 AM
The supposed reason for not ordaining women is that the faithful cannot see Jesus if they look to the altar and see a non-male there


“The faithful” pretty much see whatever they're told to see.  
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on July 31, 2013, 10:24:57 AM
cars don't explode .

A woman who was awakened by this and came outside told a reporter it
sounded like an explosion which turns into it WAS an explosion.  Even if it
was an explosion doesn't mean it was foul play. There's a median there after
Melrose that he careened into scraping the undercarriage over the cement, a
fire hydrant, watering pipes and perhaps traffic signs, not to mention hitting a
tree. If any of that caused gas to leak and sparks to ignite, why is an explosion
impossible to believe? Truth is, I don't know and you don't know. At least I don't
know enough for a definitive answer which leads me not to make one.

In the cars don't explode department:

LA Car Chase: Car Explodes Into Flames In Boyle Heights On 10 Freeway (VIDEO)
by John Stephens   Posted: 02/07/2013

A DUI suspect who fled Los Angeles police late Wednesday night crashed on the 10 freeway east of Crenshaw Blvd. after losing control of his vehicle. As shown on a live broadcast of the chase on KTLA 5, the car spun out, hit a sidewall and exploded into flames.

The station reported that the car -- identified as a red Ford Mustang -- was occupied by a single driver and had been pursued through downtown Los Angeles before the accident. KTLA reporters, who followed the chase until its fiery end, were heard saying it was "unbelievable how fast he was going" and that "I can't ever recall seeing anything like this."

Link HERE (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/06/la-car-chase-car-explodes-boyle-heights-10-freeway_n_2636211.html)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on July 31, 2013, 03:50:42 PM
......The article keeps talking about the improbability of cars catching on fire so quickly and/or exploding and yet
they do all the time. Here's one:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLoF99LYdts

..... Google Los Angeles car fires and pages of photos pop up.
 Lyle, as I said before, this does seem to possibly be an L.A. thing, and I rather think it is way too strange.  There don't seem to be fireballs "all the time" (see above quote) anywhere else.
 I mean, doesn't this interfere with normal, everyday life?
  Is it maybe related to the La Breya tar pits?  All I know is, Mr. Hastings was driving, possibly, in the wrong town.  It's like Portland has the Grimm monsters, and L.A. gets all the routine explosions of reporters and others cars  :P.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on July 31, 2013, 04:27:13 PM
In Plain Sight
   
  Well, it kind of just hit me. The supposed revelations of Edward Snowden were that the NSA, through various programs, was storing all internet and phone communications of everyone.  Considered ok, supposedly, because accessing that info required a warrant.
  Bull crap.  What Snowden said (and I didn't get it) was that any of the millions of IT computer smurfs could get into anything stored by those super-computers.  With or without using the Navy-developed Tor portal.  He did.  And said anybody could.  Forget warrants and secret courts.  The NSA data leaks like a sieve to anyone who wants it. THAT'S the social and political armeggadon.
 Businesses spying on businesses? Tap into the NSA.  Taking out a political opponent? Call in an IT specialist.  The NSA is, apparently, a whore to anyone.
  Consider, also, police and federal agencies, that don't wanna get a warrant ? Plug into the NSA.  Consider also, the physical safety of our leaders.  Want to target them?  Wheee..... track them through the always easy...NSA.
  If anything, Snowden was NOT just a hacker, he was, in plain view, showing that the extreme danger, past constitutional abuse, was that the system is flawed to such an extreme, that it is a clear and present danger to the United States, its political process, and the safety of our leaders. And filing a warning to his superiors?  Seriously? Snowden would have been guilty of criminal non-feasance, if he DIDN'T jump past the dum-dums and report them.
 And anyone who doubts our tech-crazy intel people are collapsed and dangerous morons, should review the Boston Bombing, where normal tracking of terrorist web sites AND warnings from a foreign government, were met with a huge Duhhh.
 It's in plain view.  Snowden exposed a physical safety threat to our people, not just a constitutional issue. They need to shut the damn programs down, NOW, before hostile IT specialists use the NSA whore.....to attack our safety, or domestic political extremists destroy our electoral process by tapping in and then leaking everything to Fox news or MSNBC.
 And basically, we just ignored this threat, because Snowden is so soft-spoken, he just said this plainly, and it went over our heads.  We were too interested in his poor choice of shirts, and his sexy girlfriend  :P.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on July 31, 2013, 08:34:49 PM
A woman who was awakened by this and came outside told a reporter it
sounded like an explosion which turns into it WAS an explosion.  Even if it
was an explosion doesn't mean it was foul play. There's a median there after
Melrose that he careened into scraping the undercarriage over the cement, a
fire hydrant, watering pipes and perhaps traffic signs, not to mention hitting a
tree. If any of that caused gas to leak and sparks to ignite, why is an explosion
impossible to believe? Truth is, I don't know and you don't know. At least I don't
know enough for a definitive answer which leads me not to make one.

In the cars don't explode department:

LA Car Chase: Car Explodes Into Flames In Boyle Heights On 10 Freeway (VIDEO)
by John Stephens   Posted: 02/07/2013

A DUI suspect who fled Los Angeles police late Wednesday night crashed on the 10 freeway east of Crenshaw Blvd. after losing control of his vehicle. As shown on a live broadcast of the chase on KTLA 5, the car spun out, hit a sidewall and exploded into flames.

The station reported that the car -- identified as a red Ford Mustang -- was occupied by a single driver and had been pursued through downtown Los Angeles before the accident. KTLA reporters, who followed the chase until its fiery end, were heard saying it was "unbelievable how fast he was going" and that "I can't ever recall seeing anything like this."

Link HERE (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/06/la-car-chase-car-explodes-boyle-heights-10-freeway_n_2636211.html)


Sigh, I meant cars exploding are relatively rare.  Of course this was a pretty serious crash so it could have exploded even though it was a high end Merc.  Hastings, as far as I know did not have a history of unsafe driving so that, along with the statistically rare car explosions, some witness accounts saying they saw an explosion before the crash and the car expert claiming that hacking a car's system is pretty easy, are compelling evidence that this was not an accident. Not to mention that he was working on a hot story and was being investigated by the FBI.  All these factors taken together  should at least warranr further investigation in the tragedy.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 01, 2013, 07:46:11 AM

National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden has been granted asylum in Russia.

He left the Moscow airport where he had been stranded for more than a month, according to his Russian lawyer, Anatoly Kucherena, who said that Snowden was issued papers that allowed him to leave Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, where he had been stuck since his arrival from Hong Kong on 23 June.

“I have just seen him off. He has left for a secure location,” Kucherena told state broadcaster Russia 24.

“Security is a very serious matter for him. I cannot tell you where he is going. I put him in a taxi 15 to 20 minutes ago and gave him his certificate on getting refugee status in the Russian Federation. He can live wherever he wants in Russia. It's his personal choice.”

He said Snowden was not going to stay at any embassy in Moscow, although three Latin American countries have offered to shelter him.

Reports in Russia said Snowden had been granted temporary asylum for one year.

According to the Associated Press, Kucherena said Snowden had accepted a condition laid down by the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, to stop leaking US secrets in return for asylum.

Read more:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/01/edward-snowden-asylum-russia-nsa
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/01/edward-snowden-leaves-moscow-airport-live


It’s good to see that things are moving at last  :)


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 01, 2013, 08:50:15 AM
Today, August 1st, two states held their first legally-recognized same-sex weddings.

In Rhode Island:

" Officials around Rhode Island began issuing licenses when clerks' offices opened at 8:30 a.m., making marriage an option for gay couples everywhere in New England.  A couple that have been together for 41 years, Federico Santi and John Gacher, arrived first thing at the Newport City Clerk's office. They previously were joined in a civil union and immediately married after getting their license.

"Newport City Clerk Kathleen Silvia calls Thursday, in her words, "a day of smooching" in Rhode Island."

full story at http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sex-marriages-begin-rhode-island-19836120


In Minnesota, accounts differed as to whose wedding was first.  A Facebook post showed a wedding on the (nicely decorated marble) steps in Minneapolis' City Hall's rotunda; the Pioneer Press covered the wedding of Bradley Weber and Ryan Pfeifle at their home in Eden Prairie:

"At 12:01 a.m. on Thursday, Bradley Weber and Ryan Pfeifle's backyard in Eden Prairie was crowded with people and aflame with candlelight, lanterns and camera flashes: They were there to witness history, they were there to get married.
'
" 'It is worthwhile to contemplate that there are moments in history when together we take a step forward into freedom and into life," said officiant Annamarie Ronning. 'And this is one such moment."

http://www.twincities.com/life/ci_23770751/eden-prairie-grooms-will-be-among-states-first

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/217858401.html  (includes photo gallery)


One couple decided to tie the knot at the Mall of America's wedding chapel: they had met there at one of the giant mall's food courts.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 01, 2013, 11:14:57 AM
Hastings, as far as I know did not have a history of unsafe driving

He did have a history of drunk driving, which is unsafe.

some witness accounts saying they saw an explosion before the crash

Which could have occurred because the undercarriage of the car ripped over the median, traffic signs, fire hydrant and such...

and the car expert claiming that hacking a car's system is pretty easy,

So -- anyone could have done it? Just curious, everyone says "it's easy to do" - so why haven't I even seen
this in a movie - they're usually first with things that seem a bit improbable to do...

Not to mention that he was working on a hot story and was being investigated by the FBI.
All these factors taken together should at least warrant further investigation in the tragedy.

Someone he worked with said he was "always" working on a hot story.  I don't disagree it should be
investigated further, is anyone doing it?  Has anyone ever said what he was doing out driving around
at 4:30 in the morning? That's what I want to know.  Why don't we even know those things? L.A. is not
a particularly "late night" town, or even an "all night" town.  Bars close at 2am here, they aren't 4am or
all night rules.  Where was he, was he with anyone, what was he doing, coming from...no one knows or
has reported these things?  Any other time of day, as I said, I wouldn't be as interested, but 4:30 am in
L.A. is pretty much the zero hour for "anything" going on.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 01, 2013, 11:19:56 AM
Today, August 1st, two states held their first legally-recognized same-sex weddings.

Now it's 13 states and D.C.!

(http://traveltomarry.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MapOfEquality_sm1.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 01, 2013, 11:54:38 AM
More! More!

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 01, 2013, 12:16:12 PM
Now it's 13 states and D.C.!

(http://traveltomarry.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/MapOfEquality_sm1.jpg)

Including two states in the Midwest.  Maybe it will "spread" directly south, like a weather front?   :)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 01, 2013, 12:46:34 PM
I'm surprised we've had no comment on the Bradley Manning verdict. ...  ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 01, 2013, 02:11:21 PM
I'm surprised we've had no comment on the Bradley Manning verdict. ...  ::)

I'm waiting for the sentencing.  ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 01, 2013, 02:14:49 PM
National Security Agency whistleblower Edward Snowden has been granted asylum in Russia.

He left the Moscow airport where he had been stranded for more than a month, according to his Russian lawyer, Anatoly Kucherena, who said that Snowden was issued papers that allowed him to leave Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport, where he had been stuck since his arrival from Hong Kong on 23 June.

“I have just seen him off. He has left for a secure location,” Kucherena told state broadcaster Russia 24.

“Security is a very serious matter for him. I cannot tell you where he is going. I put him in a taxi 15 to 20 minutes ago and gave him his certificate on getting refugee status in the Russian Federation. He can live wherever he wants in Russia. It's his personal choice.”

He said Snowden was not going to stay at any embassy in Moscow, although three Latin American countries have offered to shelter him.

Reports in Russia said Snowden had been granted temporary asylum for one year.

According to the Associated Press, Kucherena said Snowden had accepted a condition laid down by the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, to stop leaking US secrets in return for asylum.

Read more:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/01/edward-snowden-asylum-russia-nsa
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/01/edward-snowden-leaves-moscow-airport-live


It’s good to see that things are moving at last  :)





Dead man walking.  We'll see how long he lasts before his car explodes. ;)



Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 01, 2013, 03:36:35 PM
...... Has anyone ever said what he was doing out driving around
at 4:30 in the morning? That's what I want to know.  Why don't we even know those things? L.A. is not
a particularly "late night" town, or even an "all night" town.  Bars close at 2am here, they aren't 4am or
all night rules.  Where was he, was he with anyone, what was he doing, coming from...no one knows or
has reported these things?  Any other time of day, as I said, I wouldn't be as interested, but 4:30 am in
L.A. is pretty much the zero hour for "anything" going on.
 
    I do have a different belief as to what happened in this tragedy (and it was one), than you, Lyle.  But you have seemed to keep an open mind, and I really appreciate the map you posted, and also, the info above, about what's normal in L.A. after midnight.
Thanks much !
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 01, 2013, 05:07:03 PM
Including two states in the Midwest.  Maybe it will "spread" directly south, like a weather front?   :)

Not a chance. Not only is the South unwilling to accept gay marriage, the Boy Scouts will soon be a thing of the past.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 01, 2013, 05:15:05 PM
 About Bradley Manning's sentence.  Let's see.  Ariel Castro gets  life in prison for torturing 3 teen-aged girls.  Manning gets a life sentence, minus 127 days (for having been tortured). Sounds fair....to some?

 Meanwhile, for Mr. Snowden, the following music for encouragement, but also a warning.....watch out for those skinheads in Russia, and always check your car !

http://youtu.be/o0xeETLadI4
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on August 01, 2013, 05:17:01 PM
I'm surprised we've had no comment on the Bradley Manning verdict. ...  ::)

Why? we all knew what the out-come would be.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 01, 2013, 06:33:54 PM
About Bradley Manning's sentence.  Let's see.  Ariel Castro gets  life in prison for torturing 3 teen-aged girls.  Manning gets a life sentence, minus 127 days (for having been tortured). Sounds fair....to some?

 Meanwhile, for Mr. Snowden, the following music for encouragement, but also a warning.....watch out for those skinheads in Russia, and always check your car !

http://youtu.be/o0xeETLadI4

Manning hasn't been sentenced yet, has he?  I haven't seen anything about it.

Also, Snowden, don't eat or drink anything you don't prepare yourself, you know how those ruskies like to poison people. 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 01, 2013, 06:41:47 PM
And speaking of Russia:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Putin-dildo-01_zps44a3906f.jpg)

Send A Dildo To Vladimir Putin: 23, Ilyinka Street, Moscow, 103132, Russia.

Join the Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1386432698247307/
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 01, 2013, 06:46:33 PM
Uruguay votes to create world's first national legal marijuana market
Proposals likely to become law, leading to innovative policies at odds with the 'war on drugs' philosophy

Uruguay's unprecedented plan to create a legal marijuana market has taken its critical first step in the lower house of Congress.

All 50 members of the ruling Broad Front coalition approved the proposal just before midnight on Wednesday in a party line vote, keeping a narrow majority of the 96 MPs present after more than 13 hours of passionate debate.

The measure now goes to the Senate, where passage is expected to make Uruguay the first country in the world to license and enforce rules for the production, distribution and sale of marijuana for adult consumers.

Legislators in the ruling coalition said putting the government at the centre of a legal marijuana industry is worth trying because the global war on drugs had been a costly and bloody failure, and displacing illegal dealers through licensed marijuana sales could save money and lives.

They also hope to eliminate a legal contradiction in Uruguay, where it has been legal to use marijuana but against the law to sell it, buy it, produce it or possess even one plant.

"Uruguay appears poised, in the weeks ahead, to become the first nation in modern times to create a legal, regulated framework for marijuana," said John Walsh, a drug policy expert at the Washington Office on Latin America. "In doing so, Uruguay will be bravely taking a leading role in establishing and testing a compelling alternative to the prohibitionist paradigm."
[...]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/aug/01/uruguay-first-legal-marijuana-market

Homer Simpson discovers Uruguay:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLVJm7QW3dA
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on August 01, 2013, 07:38:59 PM
 
    I do have a different belief as to what happened in this tragedy (and it was one), than you, Lyle.  But you have seemed to keep an open mind, and I really appreciate the map you posted, and also, the info above, about what's normal in L.A. after midnight.
Thanks much !


@ Lyle, it's not that I disagree with your skepticism on the murder -- I think that is wise and healthy.

But even a mild-mannered person like me has been known to drive around in L.A. at 4:30 in the morning.  I did it in the seventies, a few times, and the same in the 80s, and even in the 90s.  -- Until I moved out of the state.

There usually are people on the road.

ETA: -- not that it was a good idea or anything. I was always really glad to make it home safely.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 02, 2013, 04:58:23 AM
I hope it's a 3 post limit, or else, am over the line.
I'm unable to find any reference to a "3 post limit" in the Forum’s rules, Tony.
Or any other form of “limit,” either, apart from “excessive redundancy,” which doesn’t seem applicable to your (merely three) posts.

Although each time your posts related to the Pope (the Bishop of Rome, not the washing machine) you weren’t labouring the point through repetition, but raising three different Pope-related issues.
So, and unless I'm mistaken, your posts couldn’t be described as “redundant.”

Could you elaborate, please?

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 02, 2013, 05:14:18 AM
I'm surprised we've had no comment on the Bradley Manning verdict. ...  ::)
I was going to make a comment but decided to refrain.

I'm tempted to do it anyway, though, despite the reach of the NSA.  :D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 02, 2013, 07:03:01 AM
Why? we all knew what the out-come would be.

Did we? Manning wasn't convicted on all the charges. If I understand correctly, he was acquitted on what the mainstream media I've seen have called the most serious, aiding the enemy.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 02, 2013, 07:06:07 AM
Not a chance. The South [is] unwilling to accept gay marriage.

Eventually it will be rammed down the South's throat by the Damnyankees, just like Emancipation and the Voting Rights Act.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 02, 2013, 07:10:36 AM
I'm waiting for the sentencing.  ::)

Well, we all know that nothing would satisfy you short of complete exoneration, probably with a cash bonus and his own reality TV show thrown in for good measure.

I can see the show now, Being Bradley Manning. I'm sure he'd give the Kardashians a run for the money.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 02, 2013, 07:30:39 AM

Dead man walking.  We'll see how long he lasts before his car explodes. ;)

Will you be disappointed if it doesn't, providing us all with a gory spectacle?

I'm guessing that time will not be on Snowden's side; if he's 30 now he'll spend the next 30 to 50 years dodging.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 02, 2013, 07:31:39 AM
Why? we all knew what the out-come would be.

As I recall, a few people here knew what the inevitable outcome last November would be.  Remember that?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 02, 2013, 07:35:28 AM
Well, here I go, Jeff:

Manning verdict keeps US power in check

Judge Denise Lind's verdict in the Bradley Manning case has struck a blow against the seemingly limitless powers of the US government, writes Ruby Hamad.*

There were two losers in the Fort Meade military court today when military judge Denise Lind found Bradley Manning guilty of 19 of the 22 charges against him, including five counts of espionage.

But in acquitting Manning of aiding the enemy, by far the most serious charge against him, Lind also struck a blow against the seemingly limitless powers of the US government.

Manning has repeatedly insisted that his intent was not to harm America but to "spark a domestic debate on the role of the military and [US] foreign policy in general as it related to Iraq and Afghanistan.


...

If you accept his claims of good intentions, Manning is symbolic of how America imagines itself to be - idealistic, freedom loving, democracy driven - but in reality, the new normal is a culture of self-censorship where you are free to express your opinion as long as it's the right one.

For all its exaltation of the first amendment, speaking freely and contentiously can have severe repercussions.

And yet, so certain is the US of its moral standing that it will seemingly accept no rebuke to its power or its tactics in maintaining that power.

Whilst today's verdict is devastating for Manning and is likely to deter at least some potential leakers, the refusal of Lind to find Manning guilty of aiding the enemy serves to keep something of a lid on this power.

For now.


There’s nothing in Hamad’s analysis with which I disagree. I thought it'd be interesting to know what people think of it.

(My emphases have been added to her opening and closing remarks.)

A link to what I’d describe as her incisive ABC News report of July 31 is included here (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-31/hamad-manning-verdict/4855530) for those who'd like to see what else she said.



As stated earlier, in the previous thread, she's a Sydney-based writer and film maker.   :)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 02, 2013, 08:00:02 AM

P.S. I was particularly taken by Ruby Hamad’s comments that,

“Far from scaling back Bush's perpetual war, Obama has increased America's unchecked power in expanding the drone program, appointing himself the final word on the "kill list" and, most controversially, including US citizens as amongst those who can be targeted for extra-judicial killing.

It is the willingness of the US government to target its own citizens that most clearly spells the new direction of the world's sole superpower."

"In this, the government is aided by the public's ... increasing intolerance of dissent, one of the legacies of 9/11."


           (I’d be interested to know how many American posters on this thread agree with any of the above.)

"Much of the NSA debate centred around the "traitorous" actions of Snowden, an accusation extended to the journalist who broke the story, with calls for Glenn Greenwald's arrest and NSA agents reportedly joking about "disappearing" him.

Which rather tends to foreshadow "a recent comment" here  (i.e. August 2)—no names, no pack drill —(and presumably based solely on a viewing of The International and/or similar conspiracy-based films  :D), considering it was written by Hamad on July 31 (well, published online, anyway) about what Edward Snowden could expect once he'd left Sheremetyevo airport for asylum within territorial Russia.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 02, 2013, 08:24:07 AM
I'm waiting for the sentencing.  ::)

Well, we all know that nothing would satisfy you short of complete exoneration, probably with a cash bonus and his own reality TV show thrown in for good measure.
I can see the show now, Being Bradley Manning. I'm sure he'd give the Kardashians a run for the money.
Do I detect something rather less than 100% respectful appreciation of a non-American opinion here?   ???

Heaven forfend!   ;D


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 02, 2013, 09:13:15 AM
Do I detect something rather less than 100% respectful appreciation of a non-American opinion here?   ???

Heaven forfend!   ;D

Heavens, no! That's a "rather less than 100% respectful appreciation of a" "Free Bradley Manning" opinion.  ;)

Incidentally, I think it's interesting that this Ruby Hamad apparently thinks it's terrible that the President "appoint[ed] himself the final word on the 'kill list.'"  I could say that looks to me like he's accepting ultimate responsibility, which seems only proper to me. Remember "The Buck Stops Here"?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 02, 2013, 09:55:36 AM
But even a mild-mannered person like me has been known to drive around in L.A. at 4:30 in the morning.
I did it in the seventies, a few times, and the same in the 80s, and even in the 90s.  -- Until I moved out of the state.
There usually are people on the road.

Yes, there are always people on the road, even at 4:30am, but even in Hollywood there isn't any reason to be.
There aren't any restaurants or clubs or anything like that letting out or the like.  Supposedly he drove from
Hollywood all the way past Melrose with no incident, so you'd have to admit there was no traffic problem.
If you recall when people were out here for the BBM event in 2008 we could hardly find a restaurant to go
to after the screening that stayed open past 11pm.  So, because it was that time, it makes me wonder what
he was doing at that time.  And what were you doing driving round at 4:30am?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on August 02, 2013, 10:54:17 AM
Lyle, I don't know about the reporter -- maybe the question of where he was, what was he doing, is a clue to the explosion, and I agree with everyone these are questions that probably should be answered in a situation like this, to make sure it either WAS foul play or WASN't -- but --

You know, my dad used to work nights and sometimes was stopped by the Burbank police in the wee hours of the morning because of that thinking -- what reason could there be to be on the road? -- well, he was coming home from work, and not speeding or anything -- just driving while 4:30 a.m.  (We suspected the Burbank cops were more bored than the cops in the Valley, where he worked -- my dad's theory was the Valley cops were busier with a higher crime rate)

Also -- I'm kind of surprised anyone would say "there is no reason to be on the road at 4:30" -- in LA? Anywhere in the entire state of California? Anywhere in the USA or the world?  Unless a curfew is imposed, people can (and they do) use the roads. There is probably even less reason to be on the road in Stockton than in LA, but some people are out there driving.

What are they doing? -- Going home, maybe, going to work. Going home from what? Private things maybe, or maybe just a late night hanging out with Brokies. -- I thought about this later, and even though I don't live in LA AND I lead a mostly boring conventional life, even in the aughties there was ONE night when I was on the road at 4:30 a.m. in Los Angeles because of hanging out late with Brokies!  :D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 02, 2013, 10:56:03 AM

Yes, there are always people on the road, even at 4:30am, but even in Hollywood there isn't any reason to be.
There aren't any restaurants or clubs or anything like that letting out or the like.  Supposedly he drove from
Hollywood all the way past Melrose with no incident, so you'd have to admit there was no traffic problem.
If you recall when people were out here for the BBM event in 2008 we could hardly find a restaurant to go
to after the screening that stayed open past 11pm.  So, because it was that time, it makes me wonder what
he was doing at that time.  And what were you doing driving round at 4:30am?
I distinctly recall, Lyle, when gazing down from my plane's window seat, as my Qantas flight from Sydney was about to land at LAX, that the streets below were full of cars driving around, headlights blazing.
Or perhaps it was the other way around, and my window seat was on a Delta flight from SF to LAX, from where I was to fly back home on Qantas.  ???

Either way I did think to myself, "What a busy little place it is, all those little cars buzzing along, and so very late at night."
And far be it for me to question their reasons for doing so.

But whether I was coming (after a very long trans-oceanlc flight) or going (after a very long "Lost Weekend"-style visit to SF, as far as I'm able to recall, anyway), the sight was imprinted in my memory.

Once seen, never forgotten.  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 02, 2013, 01:43:23 PM

......So, and unless I'm mistaken, your posts couldn’t be described as “redundant.”

Could you elaborate, please?
 
  Am sort of pope-d out, Paul.  Meanwhile, am enjoying your posts !
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on August 02, 2013, 02:01:58 PM
Did we? Manning wasn't convicted on all the charges. If I understand correctly, he was acquitted on what the mainstream media I've seen have called the most serious, aiding the enemy.


There main concern was to put fear in future leeks, so NOT to happen again. So, not to question your GOVERNMENT AGAIN.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 02, 2013, 02:17:11 PM
 
  Am sort of pope-d out, Paul.  Meanwhile, am enjoying your posts !

Too pooped to pope.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 02, 2013, 02:24:52 PM
Eventually it will be rammed down the South's throat by the Damnyankees, just like Emancipation and the Voting Rights Act.

Again, mot a chance.
I know the Civil War is taught ... to some extent... in Northern schools.
Down here, it's a current event.
And perhaps you have forgotten the recent semi-termination of the VRA.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 02, 2013, 02:29:28 PM
I didn't say there wasn't a reason to be out driving at 4:30am, just that it should
be a clue into what he was doing, but I guess my point is being lost.
Okay, there are millions of people driving around L.A. at 4:30 in the morning.
And we should celebrate Christmas in July because then the stores aren't so crowded.
And it's warmer in the country than it is in the summer.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 02, 2013, 02:46:19 PM
Again, mot a chance.
I know the Civil War is taught ... to some extent... in Northern schools.
Down here, it's a current event.
And perhaps you have forgotten the recent semi-termination of the VRA.

No I have not. The point was that the VRA was rammed down Southern throats back in the Sixties, and so will gay marriage be eventually, when all the states, whether they like it or not, will have to accept it as falling under the "equal protection" and "full faith and credit" clauses of the United States Constitution.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 02, 2013, 03:47:20 PM
Jeff, you seem to be saying making it a lfederal law will make it acceptable.
not a chance.
Just take a look at abortion.

And, in another advanced part of the world, there is a couple in GB planning to sue the Church of England because of its stated policy of not performing gay marriages.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 02, 2013, 05:34:34 PM
Jeff, you seem to be saying making it a lfederal law will make it acceptable.
not a chance.
Just take a look at abortion.

And, in another advanced part of the world, there is a couple in GB planning to sue the Church of England because of its stated policy of not performing gay marriages.

Well, there's acceptable and then there's acceptable. Some people will go to their graves never accepting it. But the day will come when they're going to have to accept it--perhaps live with it would be a better way to say it?--whether they like it or not.

I'm sure there are some folks not just in the South but all over the nation who don't accept interracial marriage, for example, but since Loving v. Virginia they have to accept it--live with the fact of it--whether they like it or not.

And the day will come when accepting it/living with it will be crammed down the throats of all the states--North, South, East, West--that have amended their constitutions, or whatever, to state that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

And good for those folks who are going to sue the C. of E. I wish them luck.  :)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: dejavu on August 02, 2013, 07:18:43 PM
I was sorry to hear that JJ Cale died this weekend.
Not really well know, but Rick and I always liked his sound.

"After Midnight"

http://youtu.be/TxuL8BsuWuA


I really love this song, though I mostly know it because of Eric Clapton.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 02, 2013, 09:29:57 PM
Well, there's acceptable and then there's acceptable. Some people will go to their graves never accepting it. But the day will come when they're going to have to accept it--perhaps live with it would be a better way to say it?--whether they like it or not.

I'm sure there are some folks not just in the South but all over the nation who don't accept interracial marriage, for example, but since Loving v. Virginia they have to accept it--live with the fact of it--whether they like it or not.

And the day will come when accepting it/living with it will be crammed down the throats of all the states--North, South, East, West--that have amended their constitutions, or whatever, to state that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

And good for those folks who are going to sue the C. of E. I wish them luck.  :)

I hope you remember that the next time you are on the other side.

American Blacks are constantly complaining that what has been crammed down the throats of American citizens for 1-1/2 centuries is not working for them. If you think discrimination and hatred can be outlawed, you are mistaken.

And how can the government of GB interfere in the practices of a religion? Of course, perhaps it is different in England than here. But here churches have long set their own practices when it comes to their ceremonies... baptism, internment, etc. Why should marriage be any different? Marriage as a civil union is one thing. Marriage as a religious union is another. What's next... MAKE the Vatican ordain female priests?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 03, 2013, 06:25:55 AM
Also -- I'm kind of surprised anyone would say "there is no reason to be on the road at 4:30" -- in LA? Anywhere in the entire state of California? Anywhere in the USA or the world?  Unless a curfew is imposed, people can (and they do) use the roads. There is probably even less reason to be on the road in Stockton than in LA, but some people are out there driving.

I understand the uneasiness over any demand that people account for their whereabouts, if they aren't doing anything suspicious*.  People who work night shifts certainly have a reason to be out at 4:30 a.m.

However, the context here is a conspiracy theory over a cause of death so the circumstance is a legitimate question; despite Los Angeles being a "busy little place."


* "Suspicious" as in breaking into a house, setting fire to a convenience store, etc.  Unfortunate that the venue dictates qualifying that.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 03, 2013, 06:27:43 AM

There main concern was to put fear in future leeks, so NOT to happen again. So, not to question your GOVERNMENT AGAIN.


I prefer fear-free leeks.  They taste better.


another view of Saint Bradley's conviction:

"Whatever we might think about the motives and repercussions of Bradley Manning's actions, one thing we know for sure is that he broke the law. He was apprehended, arrested and, as a soldier, he was given a fair court-martial without a jury of his peers per his own request.  He was able to hire a defense team and was backed up by public advocacy around the world. From there, he plead guilty to breaking ten laws in the face of having pledged an Oath of Enlistment. And on Tuesday, a military judge found him guilty on an additional ten charges.

"Knowing this, I'm not exactly sure why there was such violent garment rending yesterday over the fact that Manning will go to prison per the mandates of the law. He was given due process, he was presumed innocent and he was tried in the plain view of journalists. So, why the angst?

"I'm not clear as to how Manning has been able to attain such a small but vocal following of supporters given his recklessness and naivete in leaking so many documents, many of which revealed information damaging to American diplomatic endeavors. As with Snowden, there's a vindictiveness in Manning's actions -- a destructive blurting of information in order to seemingly exact punishment upon his government and the people from which it's derived. Had he released fewer documents with a more precise goal in mind and done so through more respectable channels, it's likely he wouldn't be facing 136 years in prison. Better yet, he probably wouldn't have as many critics. "

http://bobcesca.thedailybanter.com/blog-archives/2013/07/bradley-manning-lives-in-a-nation-of-laws-and-hero-or-not-he-broke-16-of-those-laws.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 03, 2013, 09:09:57 AM
Eventually it will be rammed down the South's throat by the Damnyankees, just like Emancipation and the Voting Rights Act.

And the day will come when accepting it/living with it will be crammed down the throats of all the states--North, South, East, West--that have amended their constitutions, or whatever, to state that marriage is only between a man and a woman.

American Blacks are constantly complaining that what has been crammed down the throats of American citizens for 1-1/2 centuries is not working for them. If you think discrimination and hatred can be outlawed, you are mistaken.


Y'all, please.  Get a room.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 03, 2013, 12:21:26 PM
Well, we all know that nothing would satisfy you short of complete exoneration, probably with a cash bonus and his own reality TV show thrown in for good measure.

I can see the show now, Being Bradley Manning. I'm sure he'd give the Kardashians a run for the money.

The guy pleaded guilty to 20 charges so I don't expect complete exoneration.  I would be satisfied with a fair sentence, like maybe 5 years at most.  
It's funny how people consider Manning and Snowden to be traitors but have no problem with Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush, (Saint) Obama and all the rest getting away with war crimes.  Who endangers the US more, Manning or that criminal bunch of sociopaths?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 03, 2013, 01:56:40 PM
He did have a history of drunk driving, which is unsafe.
I'll wait for the report re: his blood alcohol level.

Quote
Which could have occurred because the undercarriage of the car ripped over the median, traffic signs, fire hydrant and such...

Possible but rather convenient.

Quote
So -- anyone could have done it? Just curious, everyone says "it's easy to do" - so why haven't I even seen
this in a movie - they're usually first with things that seem a bit improbable to do...
From a two year old NYT article:
Researchers Show How a Car’s Electronics Can Be Taken Over Remotely
With a modest amount of expertise, computer hackers could gain remote access to someone’s car — just as they do to people’s personal computers — and take over the vehicle’s basic functions, including control of its engine, according to a report by computer scientists from the University of California, San Diego and the University of Washington.
Although no such takeovers have been reported in the real world, the scientists were able to do exactly this in an experiment conducted on a car they bought for the purpose of trying to hack it. Their report, delivered last Friday to the National Academy of Sciences’ Transportation Research Board, described how such unauthorized intrusions could theoretically take place.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/business/10hack.html?_r=0[/quote]


Quote
Someone he worked with said he was "always" working on a hot story.  I don't disagree it should be
investigated further, is anyone doing it?
  Has anyone ever said what he was doing out driving around
at 4:30 in the morning? That's what I want to know.  Why don't we even know those things? L.A. is not
a particularly "late night" town, or even an "all night" town.  Bars close at 2am here, they aren't 4am or
all night rules.  Where was he, was he with anyone, what was he doing, coming from...no one knows or
has reported these things?  Any other time of day, as I said, I wouldn't be as interested, but 4:30 am in
L.A. is pretty much the zero hour for "anything" going on.
I think it's telling that the LAPD within hours decided that it was simple accident.  Usually investigations take a little longer than that.

The Obama administration is waging a war against whistleblowers and journalists, Hastings was likely assassinated.

In the movie, I think Casey Affleck would be perfect as Hastings:

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/People/casey-affleck-01_zps17b4aae3.jpg)

[/quote]
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 03, 2013, 02:43:24 PM
12 people who should be in prison instead of Bradley Manning
Who are the real criminals? Here's a preliminary list

On July 30, a judge in a military court found Bradley Manning guilty of 19 of the 21 charges brought against him. Although he was acquitted of “aiding the enemy,” the most serious he faced, Manning could still face a sentence of well over 100 years' imprisonment.

It is absurd that the U.S. government would prosecute Manning, a whistleblower who exposed crimes and secrets that were being covered up by the Pentagon and State Department. It is equally absurd that the so-called justice system allows the real criminals in society—Wall Street drug launderers, CEOs responsible for willful and deadly negligence, racist murderers, killer cops and war criminals—to walk free. Below is a list of a dozen people, in no particular order, who should rightfully be sitting in prison cells instead of Bradley Manning.
[...]

http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/12-people-prison-instead-bradley-manning.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 04, 2013, 05:49:18 AM

My attention was drawn recently to two detailed and informative news articles (in The Guardian and The Age) about Wednesday’s Senate Judiciary Committee hearing into the NSA program and the declassification of documents relating to its bulk surveillance operations.
 
In brief, issues raised included:

a) criticism of

• the truthfulness of statements made to Congress in March by James Clapper, the Director of National Intelligence;
• the conflating to Congress by intelligence officials of the value of phone and internet communications surveillance;
• the NSA argument that “terrorist plots” were successfully “disrupted” by its bulk phone record collection;
• the fact that “technical personnel responsible for NSA’s corporate infrastructure and transmission of metadata” may handle phone records data without the “special training” in court-ordered restrictions undergone by NSA intelligence analysts; and
• the NSA claim that providing information about the number of American citizens whose data was included in its database would violate their privacy.

b) concerns that:

• the bulk surveillance collection program was insufficiently transparent;
• its usefulness for stopping terrorist attacks was overstated by the NSA, despite no evidence that this has occurred;
• Congress had been “deceived and actively misled” about the extent of (so-called “accidental”) abuses of NSA’s databases;
• the program involved massive privacy implications; and
• judges’ definition of the “relevance” of criteria (when asked to authorise warrants for the collection of records by the FBI) was vague.

Hmmm.  8)


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 04, 2013, 05:50:27 AM

US senators rail against intelligence disclosures over NSA practices

The bipartisan leaders of a powerful Senate committee questioned the truthfulness of the US intelligence community in a heated Wednesday morning hearing as officials conceded that their controversial bulk phone records collection of millions of Americans was not "the most important tool" – contradicting statements they previously gave to Congress.

Just before the hearing began, the US director of national intelligence declassified and released documents shedding more light on how the bulk surveillance occurs.
Senator Al Franken, a Minnesota Democrat, denounced the move as "ad hoc transparency."

Senator Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat and chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said: "We need straightforward answers, and I'm concerned we're not getting them."

Leahy, joined by ranking Republican Chuck Grassley of Iowa, criticised director of national intelligence James Clapper for making untruthful statements to Congress in March about the bulk phone records collection on Americans, and NSA director Keith Alexander for overstating the usefulness of that collection for stopping terrorist attacks.

Full report here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/us-senate-intelligence-officials-nsa

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 04, 2013, 05:51:11 AM
The following is from the article (http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/us-declassifies-nsa-program-for-debate-as-a-further-disclosure-emerges-20130801-2r0ff.html), published by The Age on August 1, to which I referred previously.

US declassifies NSA program for debate, as a further disclosure emerges

Washington: The Obama administration on Wednesday released formerly classified documents outlining a once-secret program of the National Security Agency that is collecting records of all domestic phone calls, as a newly leaked NSA document surfaced showing how the agency spies on Web browsing and other Internet activity abroad.

Together, the new round of disclosures shed even more light on the scope of the US government's secret surveillance programs, which have been dragged into public view and debate by leaks from the former NSA contractor Edward J. Snowden.


(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20August%202013/senate-w-620x349_zpsc7d888b0.jpg)

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Senator Patrick Leahy
and Senate Intelligence Committee Chair Senator Dianne Feinstein
confer on Capitol Hill in Washington. Photo: AP

Being mindful that extensive quotes from an online news source might be deemed to be excessive I'll refer merely to a few concluding paragraphs in the article:

A key question has been how the judges justified stretching [the term "relevance"] [to encompass collecting records of all calls. Government officials have explained that a subset of those calls will later turn out to be relevant when analysing who has links to a suspected terrorist. By putting them all into a single database, the NSA can preserve the records for later analysis for up to five years; look at circles of callers up to three "hops" removed from the target, even if they are subscribers to different phone companies; and search for patterns that may indicate that a suspect is trying to hide his communications, like cycling through throwaway "burner" phones from different providers.”

Senator Leahy asked whether the government could not obtain "virtually all available commercial data" like a comprehensive database of all Americans' credit card records, website visits, medical records, or firearms ...” the Deputy Attorney General, James Cole. replied that "We're not collecting all their phone records so that we can wander through them. The phone records are being done to look at the connections. If somebody's buying things that could be used to make bombs, of course we would like to know that, but we may not need to do it in this fashion."

When asked by Senator Grassley how the calling records of innocent Americans could be considered relevant, and whether there was any legal precedent to support such a broad conception of "relevance," Cole replied,

"that judges on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court had now signed off on the program 34 times because the orders have to be renewed every three months, and each was such a precedent. The legal precedent comes from the history of all the orders that have been issued."

In other words—it’s legal because we’ve done it before.  ::)

An argument which is, IMO, certainly one for the books.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 04, 2013, 05:52:16 AM

  Am sort of pope-d out, Paul. 
Perhaps you don't have the latest model, Tony.  ;D
Might I recommend this one?
The fine print is well worth reading...
(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20August%202013/NorthernStarPope_zpse12ebdf9.jpg) (http://s412.photobucket.com/user/rasalgethi_photo/media/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20August%202013/NorthernStarPope_zpse12ebdf9.jpg.html)
Quote from: Tony_
Meanwhile, am enjoying your posts !
Thanks, Tony.  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 04, 2013, 11:48:46 AM
I'll wait for the report re: his blood alcohol level.

Me, too, but you said you hadn't heard any history of unsafe driving.  He actually crashed his family's car
at one point.  Now you've heard.

Possible but rather convenient.

It might be convenient but the same type of accident is seen in that freeway crash video
I posted and that one crashed into a retaining wall and did not go over anything that would have
ripped the undercarriage.

From a two year old NYT article:
Researchers Show How a Car’s Electronics Can Be Taken Over Remotely
With a modest amount of expertise, computer hackers could gain remote access to someone’s car — just as they do to people’s personal computers — and take over the vehicle’s basic functions, including control of its engine, according to a report by computer scientists from the University of California, San Diego and the University of Washington.
Although no such takeovers have been reported in the real world, the scientists were able to do exactly this in an experiment conducted on a car they bought for the purpose of trying to hack it. Their report, delivered last Friday to the National Academy of Sciences’ Transportation Research Board, described how such unauthorized intrusions could theoretically take place.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/business/10hack.html?_r=0

I didn't write that it was impossible, only that I've never heard this come up
in any other car crash invesitgation.

If one wants to they could highlight these things from that article:

Although no such takeovers have been reported in the real world

could theoretically

You'd also have to assume that people would know what car MH was going to rent
and where and have video feed of where he was driving so it would look like an accident.

I think it's telling that the LAPD within hours decided that it was simple accident.
Usually investigations take a little longer than that.

I think it's telling that nothing short of murder is what you believe.
If the police investigated for days every car crash that occurs in L.A. that's all they'd be doing.
Did they even know who was in the car when they decided that?

You want to blame authorities, why don't you blame supposed reporters, as MH was, and have
them invesitgate this if all these people believe it was murder. Why aren't they doing that?
Maybe the reporters did it themselves for their own agenda? (Is that not as plausible, or just
an eye roll?)

The Obama administration is waging a war against whistleblowers and journalists,
Hastings was likely assassinated.

Maybe Helen Thomas, too?

In the movie, I think Casey Affleck would be perfect as Hastings:

Agree.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 04, 2013, 12:30:44 PM
It's funny how people consider Manning and Snowden to be traitors but have no problem with Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush, (Saint) Obama and all the rest getting away with war crimes. Who endangers the US more, Manning or that criminal bunch of sociopaths?

So I guess you disagree with that article Marge posted.
It's too bad that you don't run for office as you seem to have everything figured out.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 04, 2013, 02:01:45 PM
So I guess you disagree with that article Marge posted.
It's too bad that you don't run for office as you seem to have everything figured out.

You're getting testy.  ;)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 04, 2013, 03:27:31 PM

Only because you're getting redundant.  :-X
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on August 04, 2013, 04:34:13 PM
Jesse Tyler Ferguson 'Can't Believe There's a Ring on My Finger!'



http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20722200,00.html

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 04, 2013, 09:36:33 PM
Only because you're getting redundant.  :-X

I wasn't redundant, i was responding to your posts.  I guess i could say the same about you.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 05, 2013, 11:43:45 AM

 ...aaaaaand scene.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 06, 2013, 02:57:11 PM
I hope you remember that the next time you are on the other side.

Hunh? I have no idea what this comment means or refers to.

Quote
American Blacks are constantly complaining that what has been crammed down the throats of American citizens for 1-1/2 centuries is not working for them. If you think discrimination and hatred can be outlawed, you are mistaken.

Have you been living under a rock for the last 50 years? Discrimination, at least in some areas, can and has been outlawed, but outlawing something and stopping it from happening are two different things, and I never said otherwise--though I have the sense that you are trying to say that I have.

Quote
And how can the government of GB interfere in the practices of a religion? Of course, perhaps it is different in England than here.

It is different. The Church of England is an "established" church--it's part of the government and government-supported, not separate from it, and the queen is the "supreme governor" of the Church of England, just as she is the head of state of the government.

Quote
But here churches have long set their own practices when it comes to their ceremonies... baptism, internment, etc. Why should marriage be any different? Marriage as a civil union is one thing. Marriage as a religious union is another.

I agree

Quote
What's next... MAKE the Vatican ordain female priests?

I'm sure there are plenty of Roman Catholic women who would love that.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 06, 2013, 03:03:12 PM
I prefer fear-free leeks.  They taste better.

Got any recipes, Marge?  ;)


Quote
another view of Saint Bradley's conviction:

"Whatever we might think about the motives and repercussions of Bradley Manning's actions, one thing we know for sure is that he broke the law. He was apprehended, arrested and, as a soldier, he was given a fair court-martial without a jury of his peers per his own request.  He was able to hire a defense team and was backed up by public advocacy around the world. From there, he plead guilty to breaking ten laws in the face of having pledged an Oath of Enlistment. And on Tuesday, a military judge found him guilty on an additional ten charges.

"Knowing this, I'm not exactly sure why there was such violent garment rending yesterday over the fact that Manning will go to prison per the mandates of the law. He was given due process, he was presumed innocent and he was tried in the plain view of journalists. So, why the angst?

"I'm not clear as to how Manning has been able to attain such a small but vocal following of supporters given his recklessness and naivete in leaking so many documents, many of which revealed information damaging to American diplomatic endeavors. As with Snowden, there's a vindictiveness in Manning's actions -- a destructive blurting of information in order to seemingly exact punishment upon his government and the people from which it's derived. Had he released fewer documents with a more precise goal in mind and done so through more respectable channels, it's likely he wouldn't be facing 136 years in prison. Better yet, he probably wouldn't have as many critics. "

http://bobcesca.thedailybanter.com/blog-archives/2013/07/bradley-manning-lives-in-a-nation-of-laws-and-hero-or-not-he-broke-16-of-those-laws.html

Amen.

Whistleblowers are people who expose outrageous government expenditures for toilet seats. Bradley Manning is not a whistleblower.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on August 06, 2013, 04:54:43 PM
Lyle and Oilgun--play nice, Boys!   >:(
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 06, 2013, 09:03:31 PM
Lyle and Oilgun--play nice, Boys!   >:(


I'm french, I don't mind a little bit of drama.  It's good for the soul.



Why Masha Gessen is leaving Russia

For years, Russian-American journalist and gay-rights activist Masha Gessen has vowed to stay in Russia and continue to fight against the Putin regime.

It's no small deal, therefore, that even she is joining the exodus of those fleeing Russia's "homosexual propaganda" laws.

Gessen tells Q guest host Stephen Quinn that the newly-passed bill, and the hostile climate it creates, are too much for her highly visible family.

"We are the only out same sex family in the country, as absurd as that may sound," said Gessen, who has spent 20 years reporting from Russia.

"LGBT people have become the targets of choice in this xenophobic campaign."

Gessen, a lesbian mother of three and a well-known critic of the Putin regime, also worries about a reportedly planned law that seeks to remove children -- adopted or not -- from same-sex families.

As a result, Gessen has already sent her eldest child to the U.S., where she'll soon be joining him along with the rest of her family.

http://www.cbc.ca/q/blog/2013/08/06/why-masha-gessens-leaving-russia/

Russia is imploding.  I really fear for gays in Russia, it's like Germany in the 30s.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 07, 2013, 12:27:39 PM
......Russia is imploding.  I really fear for gays in Russia, it's like Germany in the 30s.
   There are fearful similarities.

 Unreported much, also, the sexual abuse of country boys gone into the Russian army, by city boys.  Straight-on-straight, same gender rapes.  I have read reports it is a nightmare, one they can't admit or reform.
 Seems to me, they need to start with sexual abuse.  And then leave personal choices alone.  But, like many corrupt countries, denial of crimes is paralleled by tormenting the innocent, and posing as moral.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 07, 2013, 12:31:05 PM
The US has no business preaching about sexual abuse, especially in the military, to ANY other country.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 07, 2013, 12:32:51 PM
 And, speaking of denial..... President Obama on the Jay Leno Show, last night : "We don't have a domestic spying program".

 Mr. President, at that moment, you took ownership.  Of all the Bush/Cheney extremes. It's now your cover-up.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 07, 2013, 12:36:19 PM
The US has no business preaching about sexual abuse, especially in the military, to ANY other country.
  Sorry, Sherry.  There is no presumption of abuse in the U.S. military.  Just much that needs justice and jail terms.  In Russia, there is almost automatic rape of any male in boot camps.  If you can't see the difference, oh, well.... :P.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 07, 2013, 12:55:11 PM
I think you are sadly mistaken. When John McCain says he can no longer encourage women to join the military because of the prevalence of sexual abuse, there is a drastic problem. And those who are investigating the matter say it is as bad if not worse with male members as female. One report about abuse in the Russian military compared to hundreds in the US that have made it to major news outlets and on going Congressional inquiries should tell you that.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 07, 2013, 12:56:16 PM
And, speaking of denial..... President Obama on the Jay Leno Show, last night : "We don't have a domestic spying program".

 Mr. President, at that moment, you took ownership.  Of all the Bush/Cheney extremes. It's now your cover-up.


I watched that interview from start to finish and he said no such thing.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 07, 2013, 01:59:37 PM
   There are fearful similarities.

 Unreported much, also, the sexual abuse of country boys gone into the Russian army, by city boys.  Straight-on-straight, same gender rapes.  I have read reports it is a nightmare, one they can't admit or reform.
 Seems to me, they need to start with sexual abuse.  And then leave personal choices alone.  But, like many corrupt countries, denial of crimes is paralleled by tormenting the innocent, and posing as moral.

That's been a problem with the Russian military since Soviet times. Probably Tsarist too, a way to really put fear of superiors into naive young recruits. Not justifying it by any means, just noting that it's a problem of long standing.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 07, 2013, 02:48:02 PM

I watched that interview from start to finish and he said no such thing.
  Mmmmm.....you probably didn't hear it, because it was buried in a lot of other qualifications.  But the simple declarative sentence WAS said, and CNN, Fox News, and others are continually returning to that sentence today, carrying it on scrawl lines and asking analysts to comment on how he ever could have spoken it.  Even buried in a long this and that, it was an outrage.

 Meanwhile, you should know, Sherry, your dogs have been on the internet for some time.  I get PM's  :).  They generally like me, and so, please reconsider always being in disagreement.....thee should know, they could bite thee  :D.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 07, 2013, 03:04:41 PM
That's been a problem with the Russian military since Soviet times. Probably Tsarist too, a way to really put fear of superiors into naive young recruits. Not justifying it by any means, just noting that it's a problem of long standing.



And apparently the policy works so well for Russia the US military has decided to emulate it. Where is the outrage about that?
And if you think it doesn't affect you, the American taxpayer is paying for it in the form of disability payments to the people getting medical discharges because of it.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 07, 2013, 03:11:42 PM
 Mmmmm.....you probably didn't hear it, because it was buried in a lot of other qualifications.  But the simple declarative sentence WAS said, and CNN, Fox News, and others are continually returning to that sentence today, carrying it on scrawl lines and asking analysts to comment on how he ever could have spoken it.  Even buried in a long this and that, it was an outrage.


Nothing like taking one sentence out of context.
The man said these were policies in effect when he took office and he was sceptical about them until after he reviewed them and put additional safeguards in place.
Where is the cover-up?

And as a matter of personal opinion, collection of phone numbers, email addresses and website urls is hardly spying on people since anybody can get them any time.




Quote

Meanwhile, you should know, Sherry, your dogs have been on the internet for some time.  I get PM's  :).  They generally like me, and so, please reconsider always being in disagreement.....thee should know, they could bite thee  :D.

My policy is ALWAYS to trust my dog.
My second policy is even a single bite results in permanent termination.
Thee should listen up.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 07, 2013, 03:12:19 PM
That's been a problem with the Russian military since Soviet times. Probably Tsarist too, a way to really put fear of superiors into naive young recruits. Not justifying it by any means, just noting that it's a problem of long standing.
 Am sure it has been a long-standing problem, Fritz.  But the evidence of parents badly shaken, and reports of up to a million in the last decade, suggests a quantum jump.
 In tsarist times, the soldiers were mostly rural, the officer corps of the nobility.  But in the Soviet era, there began an admixture of innocent farm boys thrown in with the more jaded city recruits.  
 In the new reports, there was a direct mention of the sexual abuse and the linking of this with contempt for their rural backgrounds and culture. In other words, if you're country, you are beaten and raped, automatically.  If urban, I believe the % drops significantly.
  IMO, this is further evidence of the collapse of the Orthodox Church hierarchy.  They are so busy pushing so-called weaknesses in the last 2 commissions on the possibility of survivors of the slaughter of the imperial family (which plays into Putin's hands, as he therefore can say he's for the restoration of the monarchy, but can't take the collateral branch), that they've got their heads up their asses. There are more serious issues, and the epidemic of rapes in the army of country lads, and the parallel bashing of legitimate gays (yes, I just used that phrase  :P), and the church's silence, is past unacceptable.
  A lot of trouble has come from Putin's manipulation of the Church's historical obssessions. It is the duty of the Patriarch to denounce physical abuse of any kind.  Sheesh. Even the other churches, while anti-gay, denounced physical bashing.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 07, 2013, 03:38:58 PM
President Obama on the Jay Leno Show, last night : "We don't have a domestic spying program".

My local Von's market has a spying program. They know every single thing I buy and recommend things I might
like or not need because of that. They have a record of everything I've ever purchased. Yes, I acqiuesce to using
their card that gives them all of this information because my food bill would be 10-15-20% higher if I did not do it.
It's coercion.

Are traffic cameras to catch speeders a domestic spying program?

Secirity cameras on Government buildings only?  Or all buildings?

Didn't Snowden spy on the Government by looking into aeas he had no authority to do, but that he could?

Just because Snowden or Manning had access to information doesn't mean they were allowed to get it.

I had access to my parents purse or wallet when I was at home, was I allowed to snoop thorugh it.

The basic problem here is that there are two conflicting elements at work that aren't really reconcilable.
Security and privacy.  How much security do you give up for privacy?  How much privacy do you give up
for security?  Everyone's going to have a different sliding scale. But I laugh at the outrage of all this angst
about "the Government spying on everyone" when the whole country is spying on each other.  Before
computers if I had gone to someone's house and asked their neighbors a zillion personal questions and
wanted to see all the photographs they'd taken of their family, that would've been pretty outrageous.
Now you can find out nearly everything about people on Facebook or other internet sites or Google earth
and your empoyer can look at any personal thing you've done on the computer etc. and we are filmed
every single place we go and yet somehow the Government is after us all?  It just seems really silly at times.

Yes, the question of security vs. privacy or vice-versa is one we should have, but let's be realistic.

Somebody who wanted to know a lot about me could just come to this forum and read all my posts and find out
a heck of alot of things.

Are individual citizens really worried about this?  "The Government" was keeping tabs on the Tsarneyev's
for various reasons and yet they did what they did.  Heck, landlords spy on their tenants for any number
of reasons.

Of course news networks are going to rant and rave over this.  The news is in the business of "fear."
If you fear you'll tune in to their news. They want you to be afraid of diseases, and terrorists and spy
programs and germs in your deli food and the weather and any number of things.  A recent report John
Stossell did (on ABC I believe) showed that people who watch less news are happier and less stressed
out than those who watch it continually. They're less afraid of things like flying and driving and being
attacked and of catching diseases and visiting doctors and of being spied on I imagine.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 07, 2013, 05:02:21 PM
 Lyle, if they couldn't stop the Boston Bombing by reponsible monitoring of terrorist sites AND two warnings from a foreign government, then, something's wrong, when basic law enforcement techniques are ignored.
 Over 10 years, a trillion $ on satellites, super-computers and an army of tech people, and with what result?
 It seems to me that this is a collapse of common sense, turning our protection and our liberties over to a money pit, filled with contractors, tech nerds and underwear sniffers.
 Am glad if you feel safe and free.  I don't  :P.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 07, 2013, 05:11:09 PM
...My policy is ALWAYS to trust my dog.
My second policy is even a single bite results in permanent termination.
Thee should listen up.


 Arf  :P.

Canines of the world unite !!!!
  You have nothing to lose except Anthropo-tyranny and patronizing.  Unconditional demands :  Regular pizza !  Freedom to chase squirrels at will ! Tony gets to be unchallenged ! And : No. More. LEASHES !!!!!!
 The relationship is a partnership, not a dictatorship !
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 07, 2013, 05:15:08 PM
Warnings? Nope. Wrong again.
 
There were two inquiries about the older brother. The US responded by looking at his activities here and there was nothing alarming.
After that, he went to Terrorist-ville Russia or Slobania while on a visit to his family wherever the hell they were living and the Russians did not report that back to us.

Some people have a problem understanding degrees. Not everyone or everything is all in all the time. Nothing, absolutely nothing is black OR white.
There are two sides to every coin... and in between them is something else.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: suelyblu on August 08, 2013, 05:52:01 PM




http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/08/obama-fry-russia-olympics-gay-laws?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487




Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on August 08, 2013, 07:01:00 PM



WASHINGTON | Thu Aug 8, 2013 7:39pm EDT

(Reuters) - From Bill Clinton to Ernie Banks to Loretta Lynn, some of the most famous figures in American sports, politics and music were awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom on Thursday by President Barack Obama.

The award is the highest U.S. civilian honour and to mark the 50th anniversary of the medal, Obama chose to honour a group of people who are household names to Americans.
 

These are among the notable names on the president's Medal of Freedom list:

Clinton, president from 1993-2001, was cited for his work at the Clinton Foundation and its global effort to promote health and strengthen economies.

Banks, famously dubbed "Mr. Cub" for his 19 years on the Chicago Cubs, played in 11 All-Star games, hit more than 500 home runs and has been in the Baseball Hall of Fame since 1977.

Lynn, a country music singer who was raised in the coalfields of Kentucky, was the subject of the movie "Coal Miner's Daughter" and was one of the genre's first major female stars in the early 1960s.

Ben Bradlee was editor of The Washington Post during the Watergate scandal that brought down President Richard Nixon in the 1970s. The Post was in the news this week when Amazon's Jeff Bezos purchased the struggling newspaper.

Oprah Winfrey, best known for creating the "Oprah Winfrey Show," the highly rated talk show, is also an actress who starred in the "Color Purple."

Others on the list included former Indiana Republican Senator Richard Lugar, the late Hawaii Democratic Senator Daniel Inouye, former North Carolina basketball coach Dean Smith, feminist Gloria Steinem, civil rights leader Cordy Tindell "C.T." Vivian, jazz artist Arturo Sandoval, chemist Mario Molina and the late astronaut Sally K. Ride.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/08/us-usa-obama-medals-idUSBRE97718820130808
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 08, 2013, 08:40:38 PM
OMG! Starting in 2014 the US government is going to require "black boxes" in every new vehicle so they can track not only where we go but the roads we take to get there, how fast we drive and who we pick up on the way. Will this invasion of privacy never stop?!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 09, 2013, 06:15:32 AM
The Year of Living Stupidly

“It’s true that there are crank doctrines — goldbuggery, the Laffer curve,etc. — that play a substantial role in popular opinion but have no traction with the elite. But the elite itself has spent much of the past five years committed to economic doctrines — the prevalence of structural unemployment, the urgency of deficit reduction and entitlement reform, the destructive effects of “uncertainty” — that may not be quite as contrary to the evidence as fears of hyperinflation just around the corner, but are pretty bad.

“Eric Cantor says that the deficit is growing when it’s actually falling fast; PolitiFact rules this “'half true' because projections suggest that the deficit will rise (modestly) after 2015. It’s as if I said it was raining when it was actually sunny, and you declared my statement half true because (unreliable) weather forecasts call for rain later in the week. The reality, surely, is that the so-called fact checkers thought they were playing it safe, avoiding calling a top GOP official either uninformed or a liar; as it turns out, they’re getting a different kind of grief, and that’s a good thing.”

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/the-year-of-living-stupidly/
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 09, 2013, 10:57:57 AM
And, speaking of denial..... President Obama on the Jay Leno Show, last night : "We don't have a domestic spying program".


I watched that interview from start to finish and he said no such thing.

You might very well have "watched it from start to finish," Sherry, but what Tony said was correct.

Here’s the opening section (less than a minute) of President Obama’s response to Jay Leno's introduction on The Tonight Show:

http://youtu.be/A2oieEyaNKk

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 09, 2013, 11:45:11 AM
I'm on dial up. And I repeat, taken out of context. But that's what spin is all about.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 09, 2013, 01:17:47 PM
I'm on dial up.
...which was why I mentioned the time of the video clip, being mindful of those in situations such as yours, Sherry...  :)

Quote from: doodler
And I repeat, taken out of context.
How on earth can it be "out of context?"  ???

He said it.

Might I remind you that you said that “he said no such thing?”

Quote from: doodler
But that's what spin is all about.
Do I detect a subtle reference to our famous 1950s Australian washing machine?  :D

You know—the one that's advertised as being only £83/10/-  (delivered to your home)—and available on “Very Easy Terms."

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 09, 2013, 02:30:13 PM
 Those with dial-up, can go to HuffPo's story, today, "Did the president really lie on national television?".
As for his news conference today, now that's spin. The so-called reform (maybe within 1 year  ::) ?) that FiSA courts will have an adversarial advocate against government requests.... that means, there never was any.
 Every President, even the best, makes an enduring, catastrophic mistake.  Obama has now made his. He is no better than a lawyer/salesman for cigarettes (think Ken Starr) or the industry lawyers for pollution and no climate change consequences.  He's selling: "What loss of safety and freedom?"
 But, either way, the NSA scandal is the wrong focus. The real problem is the other agencies that can avoid courts, and tap into NSA. The real scam.  And given the extreme access (Ed Snowden did it casually), we have the nightmare of police, federal agencies, and NCIS, and military intelligence, skirting the system.  Millions of punks and goons checking up on ex-wives, neighbors, covering up political scandals, and their own mistakes,and even just helping people get or lose jobs, or get or lose their homes. Stroking the spooks sexually, or being related to them, can even bring their over-arching lawlessness in to play.
 Reform the NSA? NSA is just the spigot from which the others tap for complete lawlessness.
But then, of course, the worst child porn case was not at the Pentagon  ::), and maybe there aren't thousands of personal favors done on the local level, everywhere.  There are, as we know, no dirty cops.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 09, 2013, 04:14:04 PM
 This is an embarrassing post for me to do, but am up for it.  We've seen the high-falutin words tossed around, police state, 4th amendment, loss of rights.  But the reality is much more grubby, glossed over by the intellectual debate.
 I live in a soft police state, and yes, am talking about Norfolk.  And even my miserable neighborhood, surrounded by the naval base.  I didn't leave, until I had a back injury, and had to sell the family home for the cash, to survive.
  Details? The Norfolk Police took pay-offs for the drug trade through the ports. I saw that, at the neighborhood tavern.
And my neighborhood, all the disputes settled by sexual favors for the cops.  One  detective, whose name rhymes with John R. Masterson, had a long-running affair with a friend of mine, and when she had an enemy, he took care of it. Which accidentally sometimes led to deaths. And racism? Get real.  My 2 oldest brothers, born before WWII, were/are right wing, and always pals with the cops.  So, if I got stopped for a traffic offense, I got off. The good old boy network.
 Why no scandals? In Naval towns, NCIS and local police are in bed. They cover for each other. Leading to strange abuses.
As an off-example, an ethnic group I have always liked, Filipinos, decided our neighborhood was to be their most favorable location.  They work primarily on the base. It didn't occur to me until one of them, a friend named Pete, working for Naval Intelligence, was using his power to help the take-over....of people's homes. (They now own 60% of the neighborhood).
 These obviously little injustices and abuses are local, and grubby.  But that's where the rest of you are headed, as the cancer spreads.  Your neighborhood disputes, your jobs, your homes, your families, on the line, depending on your politics and who is giving head to the police or the feds. I'm serious. One of my worst pains in life is having seen what I saw. Authority out of control.  And it can be local, or federal level.  So, we are not just discussing esoteric principles. A real soft police state is a fountain of personal misuse and abuse by the many freaks and goons who go into it for power.
  Oh, yeah. NCIS is a great tv show. But the mark of an Orwellian beginning is the gap between that show and the reality of an agency whose principal past was hunting gay sailors, anti-war activists or sympathizers, and prancing around as secret agents.
  Especially the Bellinger Street office in Norfolk.  Want a political cover-up? Call 'em. Real estate? Settling a score? Call 'em. The price isn't always a blow job. Sometimes it's just stroking their egos.  And THAT is inexorably headed your way.  Discussions of law enforcement abuse are clean.  The reality of a soft police state, backed up by high-tech snooping, is a stinking pit of personal abuses cloaked in a larger historical reality.  Ask the victims of the Nazi's, the Stazi, the commies.  A police state is localized personal abuse, spread to a national scale.
 President Obama doesn't get it.  
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 09, 2013, 04:55:11 PM
Tony, it took me almost 45 minutes to get to the story below. I could NOT get on Huffington Post beyond the huge headline at the very top of the page and after 15+ minutes of my computer spinning its wheels resorted to bing. There I clicked on several links with the same result as most of them led back to the Huffington page. Finally, I did manage to get this to load
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/08/09/huffington-post-front-page-headline-torches-obama-did-he-lie-national



Huffington Post Front Page Headline Torches Obama: 'Did He Lie On National TV?'
By Noel Sheppard | August 09, 2013 | 11:02


Here's a headline you probably never imagined you'd see about Barack Obama at the perilously liberal Huffington Post:
 
DID HE LIE ON NATIONAL TV?
 
Yet there it was:



At issue is what Obama told NBC Tonight Show host Jay Leno Tuesday:
 

"There is no spying on Americans. We don't have a domestic spying program. What we do have are some mechanisms where we can track a phone number or an email address that we know is connected to some sort of terrorist threat."



This was flatly contradicted by a New York Times report Thursday:
 

 "The National Security Agency is searching the contents of vast amounts of Americans’ e-mail and text communications into and out of the country, hunting for people who mention information about foreigners under surveillance, according to intelligence officials.

 The N.S.A. is not just intercepting the communications of Americans who are in direct contact with foreigners targeted overseas, a practice that government officials have openly acknowledged. It is also casting a far wider net for people who cite information linked to those foreigners, like a little used e-mail address, according to a senior intelligence official.

 While it has long been known that the agency conducts extensive computer searches of data it vacuums up overseas, that it is systematically searching — without warrants — through the contents of Americans’ communications that cross the border reveals more about the scale of its secret operations."



As such, the astonishingly liberal Post on Friday asked boldly at the top of its front page if Obama lied on national TV.
 
Makes you wonder if other Obama-loving media outlets will ask the same question or predictably give the object of their affection another pass.
 
Stay tuned.



Here's the deal... I still see no lie. I do not see this policy as spying. Not on me or my family and friends or you or anybody else.
Furthermore, it is no more invasive than any other tracking program in place for just about everything we (Americans) do on a daily basis. From traffic cameras to google, we are being watched 24/7. It has not affected my life at all.

As for your personal experience (the one you related some time back,) I feel your pain and absolutely understand the fear and frustration you went through. It is regretable and cannot be wished away. But I believe it colors your perspective... if it can happen to you, it can happen to everybody and the rest of us are wandering around in la-la-land.

The truth is shit happens. Every time you get in a car you can be in an accident. Every time you get something on line or answer your phone you can be conned. Everytime you buy a product at your local grocery store you can get the one can that has been tampered with. I cannot, I choose not to worry about all the awful things that might happen if I make a phone call or send an email or go to the store or wander around my house stark naked.

The evils of Norfolk as you express them exist everywhere to some degree. In my opinion, it is a small, a minute degree, compared to the way things work in general all over this country. People have been warning us about the bad guys since Columbus landed here. The US was established to get away from the bad guys. But guess what... the bad comes with the good no matter what we're talking about. It boils down to a matter of perception.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 09, 2013, 06:39:59 PM

....As for your personal experience (the one you related some time back,) I feel your pain and absolutely understand the fear and frustration you went through. It is regretable and cannot be wished away. But I believe it colors your perspective... if it can happen to you, it can happen to everybody and the rest of us are wandering around in la-la-land.

....The evils of Norfolk as you express them exist everywhere to some degree. In my opinion, it is a small, a minute degree, compared to the way things work in general all over this country. People have been warning us about the bad guys since Columbus landed here. The US was established to get away from the bad guys. But guess what... the bad comes with the good no matter what we're talking about. It boils down to a matter of perception.
   Sherry, IMO, that was one of your best posts, and very well-expressed.  I get it, that shit happens, and also that my perceptions have been colored.
  I guess what I can't ever explain, is that I have factored in how my perceptions would have been altered, and still see what I had always seemed to me to be impossible.  Yeah, I know, there are regular stories on tv of abuse, but those are the random ones that we just know happen somewhere or other. As you pointed out in what you wrote, above.
  But what I have posted, especially about the Weinmann case, was limited, to preserve at least a shred of credibility.  What actually happened is what I can't file away under "shit happens".  Massive, expensive, skillfully done, and very, very sick.  And then, from what I saw, and experienced, and knew for sure was a total collapse of the federal agencies and also the news media (during those years), there were also solid glimpses into multiple sicknesses that call into question whether we are safe from attack with that much energy put into a political cover-up. And the American people in a coma.
 Yes, I am sensitive about government abuse of widespread domestic electronic spying.  I knew about it 6 years ago.  And technologies much worse. I also have never thought we should toss out these computer-derived scientific advances.  I just saw, they were so powerful, they could alter the political system, as well as metastasize into everywhere, frequent, local abuses. Without accountability. And there IS none.
  I get it, Sherry, that shit happens.  I just have never been able to convey the extreme dangers of what is already here. And, BTW, doesn't anybody get it, in plain sight, that if a tech guy could key in to ANY stored call or e-mail, we are then in a Watergate every day, with even the President having to be subject to the inherent weaknesses of their programs.  And his security. And ours. Sherry, THAT was Snowden's warning: too much stored, and too easily downloaded.
 As to what I caught solid glimpses of, repeatedly, and cannot speak about, well, the ground caved in under me. Am sure those who first saw  first-hand, the wars and genocides of the 20th century had a similar reaction.  But those extremes pass.  The ones I saw, IMO, entirely shut down the future. Not a different perception, maybe, but more having seen the still unexplainable extremes.
 Even so, yours was a good post.  I do understand I should not let my life be governed by what happened, and what I saw, as much as possible. And I do understand, it isn't my fight. Am older, and not willing or able.  Am not sure I would even give testimony in court if any of that stuff were Woodward and Bernsteined by someone.
  I do get it.  And am glad your own life was not hit that hard. But sometimes, I do speak up, and this was one of those times.
Meanwhile, what was that about going around the house naked  :D ?  Seriously ?
 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 10, 2013, 08:35:59 AM
Tony, it took me almost 45 minutes to get to the story below. I could NOT get on Huffington Post beyond the huge headline at the very top of the page and after 15+ minutes of my computer spinning its wheels resorted to bing. There I clicked on several links with the same result as most of them led back to the Huffington page. Finally, I did manage to get this to load
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/08/09/huffington-post-front-page-headline-torches-obama-did-he-lie-national

So did the story ever explain the difference between HuffPo being "perilously liberal" and "astonishingly liberal"?

Some of the people in this neck of the woods would never survive living in our county with its Air Force base.  They'd expire of sheer snitification.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 10, 2013, 12:37:21 PM

There's so many issues one can bring up concerning posts about this topic, so here's
a chip off this block from me, and I don't pretend it makes sense, but in a stream of
consciousness way, perhaps, I am asking questions that arise and sometimes stick and
sometimes evaporate.


At issue is what Obama told NBC Tonight Show host Jay Leno Tuesday:

"There is no spying on Americans. We don't have a domestic spying program. What we do have are some mechanisms where we can track a phone number or an email address that we know is connected to some sort of terrorist threat."

This was flatly contradicted by a New York Times report Thursday:

"The National Security Agency is searching the contents of vast amounts of Americans’ e-mail and text communications into and out of the country, hunting for people who mention information about foreigners under surveillance, according to intelligence officials.

The N.S.A. is not just intercepting the communications of Americans who are in direct contact with foreigners targeted overseas, a practice that government officials have openly acknowledged. It is also casting a far wider net for people who cite information linked to those foreigners, like a little used e-mail address, according to a senior intelligence official.

While it has long been known that the agency conducts extensive computer searches of data it vacuums up overseas, that it is systematically searching — without warrants — through the contents of Americans’ communications that cross the border reveals more about the scale of its secret operations."

The way the word "spy" is being tossed around, and especially on late night shows by comedians, is always
in a nefarious way, in a no good way, a big brother is watching you way...

Here's a question:  Is spying a bad thing?

If we have the technology to do this, other countries have it, too. The question of, if other countries can do
the same thing the U.S. is doing do we not want the U.S. doing it?  Are people saying they don't mind if China
peruses our emails in a perfunctory way, but the U.S. should not?

Here's the thing that I've brought up before.  You have two competing and seemingly irreconcilable
issues here.  Privacy and security.  Everyone wants our Government to keep us "safe."  Everyone says
they want their privacy.  But everyone has diferent ideas about what that means.  No Government wants
to be the one that is in power if something awful happens and the people crying about spying would be
the first to blame them for not doing enoiugh.

How many times on the news do you hear people interviewed at airports say, "well if it keeps us safe then
I don't mind waiting...or being searched...or whatever."  Why not the same attitude about sureveillance?

What about all the satellites mapping the earth.  You can see into every backyard in the U.S.
Is it spying?

Of course, because this issue of security/privacy is nebulous the news media loves it.  If promotes
fear of what's out there and so people will watch and yet no real answer can ever be gotten, so there's
no accountability. And there's really no answer.  Because everyone has their own idea of security and privacy
and it can be argued about relentlessly.

Quote
Makes you wonder if other Obama-loving media outlets will ask the same question or predictably give the object of their affection another pass.

So I guess this particular article comes from an Obama-hating media outlet. This is also why I wouldn't trust this particular
website. This one line infers that the President should always be attacked or vilified and that nothing short of that means
you're in cahoots with him.

If one just reads the single posts above by Doodler and Tony--Doodler is not concerned about this and Tony is sounding
the warning alarm.  But--I ask Tony, if you are sounding an alarm, what should we do about it? Anytime crowds gather
there are Government agencis out taking the temperature of thse crowds, looking for possible troublemakers or the like.
Is that spying?  Is it the same thing as the "extensive computer searches of data" cited?

I certainly am not saying that the security/privacy topic shouldn't be discussed, modified, changed, or whatever
else one believes.  But I lean toward Doodler's attitude about it rather than the opposite extreme, especially when
the question of "what could one do about it" is not answered very well.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 10, 2013, 04:20:38 PM
.

If one just reads the single posts above by Doodler and Tony--Doodler is not concerned about this and Tony is sounding
the warning alarm.  But--I ask Tony, if you are sounding an alarm, what should we do about it? Anytime crowds gather
there are Government agencis out taking the temperature of thse crowds, looking for possible troublemakers or the like.
Is that spying?  Is it the same thing as the "extensive computer searches of data" cited?
 Your post is very thoughtful and is a bulls-eye, IMO, on most of the issues. But you've asked me what we should do about things and so, here goes.
  In my previous posts, I have often said, we do need high-tech.  And we also need tracking of some people.  But even in the intel community, there is a wild debate over too much information, and no common sense.  Again.  The Boston Bombings. Those guilty were going to terrorist web sites, which should be monitored, and we had TWO warnings from Russia.  Wimping out on this....will cause more deaths.  Simple, inexpensive, common sense law enforcement, would have stopped that tragedy.
 But, we are pouring hundreds of billions into super-computer, byzantine, rat-mazes, with that All-American fatal flaw : spend and kill our way out of danger.  It. Doesn't. WORK.
 But it does establish a soft police state (as Der Spiegel termed us).  Which is subject to promiscuous abuse.
What to do about it? Well, finally, there is a push back.  Whether that will succeed or not, I do not know. My own point is that there is too much secrecy, and zero accountability, which is a galactic-sized Petri dish for LESS security and MORE abuse.  Some demotions, some jail terms, would be a good start.
  Finally, Lyle, you know I like you and Sherry.  And respect both of you.  But, where you guys, and many others, are willing to give up and even ignore, invasions of privacy and abuse, please, please, please, avoid the appearance or reality, that you can do that for others.  I don't think you have gone that far.  Am just respectfully asking that you and others never do.
  Again, I am for this high-tech stuff. Am warning that the simplest precautions of oversight and accountability....are not there.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 10, 2013, 05:42:06 PM
There is no more secrecy now than there was before. In fact, I'd be willing to bet just about everyone in the country knows more about what the government is doing than ever before, whether they want to or not. And I don't think people want to know. I don't think they care. I have been making it a point to ask what people think about Obama's spy program and so far, except for a few "What?"s, everyone has just shrugged it off as a non issue. Even my VERY conservative friends, including a couple who are almost as anti-government as oilgun, aren't perturbed... and some of them send out some pretty blunt emails. A report on tonight's national news (on NBC, I think) said they have national poll results saying 56% of Americans think the spy programs MAY go too far... and this was contrasted to the 55% of Americans who were afraid the government wouldn't go far enough right after 9-11. But most of the people they showed in the interviews seemed unworried or supportive.

I have always felt, as Tony does, that there is too little security for all the information on the internet. To me, THAT is the place terrorists should be looking for their next major attack. Blowing up a few buildings, crashing a few planes or trains, poisoning a few water supplies is small potatoes in comparison to shutting down EVERYTHING.
(I know Tony's main concern is power hungry bad guys in our own government, but that's not going to happen overnight.)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 10, 2013, 06:05:39 PM
 Well, once more, into the breach.
Switzerland apologizes to Oprah Winfrey for a racist cashier?  Others may not believe it, or if they did, say it, but...

Oprah Winfrey is a bully and a phony !
  
 As someone who enjoys social history, I do see her as a pivotal figure in our times.  She broke ground on lowering racial tensions, and proving women have a right to a perspective and to bonding, as men have done. And her contributions there have been historic.  On television.
 But in real life?  No way.  She's a phony.  Same-old, same-old, ghetto mentality of making it big, sashaying around with the middle-class whites, and trashing working people.
  The Swiss cashier who suggested a purse was too expensive, and asked to show her other handbags, made a minor, non-racial mistake.  Oprah is known for flouncing around in foreign countries, frumpy-dressed, and expecting that she be recognized and fanned with ostrich feathers.  She's done this before.  Some years back, she demanded that a Department Store in Paris stay open, past closing hours, for....her.  When the manager, very sensibly, said no, she cried: RACISM !!!!  International story.  
  She's ghetto, and she's studied how to get past that by being a phony.  Well-bred people never trash wait-staff, cashiers, or clerks.  Poor people who better themselves, commercially, never get it......you do not jump to accusations and trashing, when you don't get your way.  And if of poor black origins, you don't play sweet to get ahead, and then play the race card if somebody makes the slightest mistake.
 She doesn't get it.  When you trash other people.....you are trash.  She pissed me off the first time she did this. About that time, I broke off with a friend for abusing a fast-food worker, over nothing.  Oprah now has a pattern.
 Anyway, she was in Switzerland for Tina Turner's marriage.  THAT one is, IMO, the major breakthrough in female sensuality. Please, Tina, don't ever show up as low-bred as your friend  :">.
 At any rate, I am glad to see an emerging political force for respecting low-paid workers.  It's been long overdue.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 10, 2013, 06:18:32 PM
....I have always felt, as Tony does, that there is too little security for all the information on the internet. To me, THAT is the place terrorists should be looking for their next major attack. Blowing up a few buildings, crashing a few planes or trains, poisoning a few water supplies is small potatoes in comparison to shutting down EVERYTHING.
(I know Tony's main concern is power hungry bad guys in our own government, but that's not going to happen overnight.)
  Agreed, there, Sherry.  Nothing is going to happen overnight.  In fact, Watergate, where the Attorney General, another cabinet member, and various White House staff, went to jail,  :), and the President was impeached, and resigned before convicted.....that took over 2 years.
  I am more worried about human nature that ignores obvious warnings.  World War I.  The Holocaust. And the emergence of Al-Qaida (there with the cost of a trillion dollars and untold deaths and cripplings).
  Then, it takes decades or even much longer, for the pain to fade.  And we still ignore obvious warnings.  I guess, here we go again.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 10, 2013, 09:24:21 PM
The difference between us, Tony, is I have faith that will never happen in the US. From the very beginning there have been powerful men trying to take over our government and all have failed. Our checks and balances work. And if it should happen that they do not, we are a well armed populace.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 11, 2013, 11:06:15 AM
[...]
You want to blame authorities, why don't you blame supposed reporters, as MH was, and have
them invesitgate this if all these people believe it was murder. Why aren't they doing that?
Maybe the reporters did it themselves for their own agenda? (Is that not as plausible, or just
an eye roll?)
[...]

FBI sued for keeping secret their file on journalist Michael Hastings

Two investigative journalists are suing the FBI after the government failed to respond on time to a pair of Freedom of Information Act requests filed for details on the death of reporter Michael Hastings.
Jason Leopold and Ryan Shapiro filed a joint suit on Friday after the Federal Bureau of Investigation neglected to respond to their FOIA requests within the 20-working day period required by law.
Leopold and Shapiro both sent FOIA requests to the FBI following Hastings’ untimely death last month, and are now taking legal action in an attempt to expedite pleas that have so far been ignored by the bureau.
[...]
http://www.educateinspirechange.org/2013/07/fbi-sued-for-keeping-secret-their-file.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 11, 2013, 11:40:58 AM

Good, if they're not follwing the rules, go after them.

Sort of like NOM keeps getting ruled against for not dislcosing their campaign donors,
but they still have not done anything about it.  Courts rule, but don't enforce. We
shall see what happens.

***

Tony, thanks for your recent posts, and Doodler, too, both of your back and forth
replies were interesting.

And I don't know what to make of your Oprah post, Tony, people are so touchy when
it comes to her.  And the few things I googled baout the incident which I'd heard very
little about all have subtle but pronounced differences so it's hard to know what exactly
occured.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 11, 2013, 12:46:39 PM
FBI sued for keeping secret their file on journalist Michael Hastings

Two investigative journalists are suing the FBI after the government failed to respond on time to a pair of Freedom of Information Act requests filed for details on the death of reporter Michael Hastings.
Jason Leopold and Ryan Shapiro filed a joint suit on Friday after the Federal Bureau of Investigation neglected to respond to their FOIA requests within the 20-working day period required by law.
Leopold and Shapiro both sent FOIA requests to the FBI following Hastings’ untimely death last month, and are now taking legal action in an attempt to expedite pleas that have so far been ignored by the bureau.
[...]
http://www.educateinspirechange.org/2013/07/fbi-sued-for-keeping-secret-their-file.html

I'll believe there is something to your assumption of murder if Leopold and Shapiro die or disappear.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 11, 2013, 02:58:31 PM
...And I don't know what to make of your Oprah post, Tony, people are so touchy when
it comes to her.  And the few things I googled baout the incident which I'd heard very
little about all have subtle but pronounced differences so it's hard to know what exactly
occured.
   I wasn't aware that people were touchy about Oprah, Lyle. Thought I was the only one  :P.
 Anyway, it turns out the handbag was a lobanza $38,000 item.  Clearly, the clerk would have wanted to have her look it over, for the prospects of a very good sale, and, maybe, commission.
 But, since people often like to handle things of considerable value, which wears them out, and also, as a courtesy, the clerk made her mistake.
  A minor one. The real problem is that Oprah has deluded herself that she is widely known outside of the United States. And that NOBODY on this planet, tells her no.  And that's ignorant. As is the immediate playing of the race card. Which she has done, before, in Europe.
 She gets an award, soon, from the U.S. government.  FWIW, am giving her another award today : Phony of the Year.
Billionaires who have zero empathy or respect for working people, are, IMO, garbage.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 11, 2013, 03:11:40 PM
....I'll believe there is something to your assumption of murder if Leopold and Shapiro die or disappear.
  Nah....they're safe.  If murder, the creepies wouldn't risk another 1 or 2.  The usual MO is for the government to buy off the reporters with exclusives, in other areas.  That's what they did with Mike Gooding, of WVEC tv, in Norfolk, who was going to run a story on the Weinmann case, based on my own info.
  Meanwhile, CNN, not referencing the Hastings death, had a segment on how easily new cars can be hacked.  The steering wheel, the brake lines, and the accelerator.  They showed it being done. Sheesh, makes you want to stick to classic cars, if only you can afford them.
******
Where is Paul?  Me like reading his posts  :).  Also Jeff and Brokeback Tom. And others.  Please post, even if it's doodlebugging.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 11, 2013, 03:12:21 PM
BO may be The President
but Oprah's the queen.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 11, 2013, 07:11:22 PM
Well, once more, into the breach.
Switzerland apologizes to Oprah Winfrey for a racist cashier?  Others may not believe it, or if they did, say it, but...

Oprah Winfrey is a bully and a phony !
  
 As someone who enjoys social history, I do see her as a pivotal figure in our times.  She broke ground on lowering racial tensions, and proving women have a right to a perspective and to bonding, as men have done. And her contributions there have been historic.  On television.
 But in real life?  No way.  She's a phony.  Same-old, same-old, ghetto mentality of making it big, sashaying around with the middle-class whites, and trashing working people.
  The Swiss cashier who suggested a purse was too expensive, and asked to show her other handbags, made a minor, non-racial mistake.  Oprah is known for flouncing around in foreign countries, frumpy-dressed, and expecting that she be recognized and fanned with ostrich feathers.  She's done this before.  Some years back, she demanded that a Department Store in Paris stay open, past closing hours, for....her.  When the manager, very sensibly, said no, she cried: RACISM !!!!  International story.  
  She's ghetto, and she's studied how to get past that by being a phony.  Well-bred people never trash wait-staff, cashiers, or clerks.  Poor people who better themselves, commercially, never get it......you do not jump to accusations and trashing, when you don't get your way.  And if of poor black origins, you don't play sweet to get ahead, and then play the race card if somebody makes the slightest mistake.
 She doesn't get it.  When you trash other people.....you are trash.  She pissed me off the first time she did this. About that time, I broke off with a friend for abusing a fast-food worker, over nothing.  Oprah now has a pattern.
 Anyway, she was in Switzerland for Tina Turner's marriage.  THAT one is, IMO, the major breakthrough in female sensuality. Please, Tina, don't ever show up as low-bred as your friend  :">.
 At any rate, I am glad to see an emerging political force for respecting low-paid workers.  It's been long overdue.

Good post, Tony.

I especially like this comment:

Quote
Well-bred people never trash wait-staff, cashiers, or clerks.

I'd just add bartenders to your list--and also that they say "please" and "thank you" to them.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: chapeaugris on August 12, 2013, 04:57:16 AM
Where is Paul?  Me like reading his posts  :).  Also Jeff and Brokeback Tom. And others.  Please post, even if it's doodlebugging.

OK, since you extended the invitation to "others", I'll contribute a little. I lurk on here sometimes but haven't posted in a long time because it feels kind of like barging in, especially when I don't have time to hang here on a regular basis.

In my opinion, the majority of people are not truly worried about the NSA thing because they can't imagine that their emails and phone calls, representing a few molecules of H2O in that Mississippi-sized river of data, would be of any interest to the government. I think most people are worried about individuals -- an employer, credit-rating service, identify thief, ex-spouse -- checking them out on Facebook, Googling them, Google-Earthing them (where I live, the authorities use GE to see who has a swimming pool, which must have certain expensive safety features, or is building something on their property without a permit) in order to steal from them or wreak havoc on their personal lives.

As for the Oprah incident, for the luxury shop in question it's a similar question of balance -- not exactly between security and privacy but rather between security and bad PR.  Does this person look both rich enough and crazy enough to buy a $40K handbag to risk letting her handle the thing? vs What is the risk of offending this person? For me, the bigger question is, why would Oprah even admit she was contemplating wasting that much money?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 12, 2013, 07:02:57 AM

Where is Paul?  Me like reading his posts  :).
Golly. Have I been missed since Page 8?

Quote from: Tony_
 Also Jeff and Brokeback Tom. And others.  Please post, even if it's doodlebugging.
Even if it's doodlebugging, Tony?

Isn’t that “a seismic method for exploring for oil which sets off explosions at measured intervals, and recording the passage of shock waves through different strata?”  ;)

I’m taking a short break (but have enjoyed the colloquy, especially the issue of morality in “The Intriguing Case of a Handbag”) so will leave that to les autres... until I get back my breath.

(No solecisms for me.)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 12, 2013, 07:17:35 AM
Where is Paul?  Me like reading his posts  :).  Also Jeff and Brokeback Tom. And others.  Please post, even if it's doodlebugging.

Um, if you meant me, I have been staying away deliberately because sometimes this thread just makes me too angry, and I tell myself I really don't need that sort of emotion in my life. I don't enjoy being made angry by posts on a news group.

But I did post a reply to your's about Oprah Winfrey and how well-bred (or well-brought-up?) people behave. See above.  :)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 12, 2013, 12:42:03 PM
....OK, since you extended the invitation to "others", I'll contribute a little. I lurk on here sometimes but haven't posted in a long time because it feels kind of like barging in, especially when I don't have time to hang here on a regular basis.
  I know what you mean, there, Kim, as I go to some of the other threads, but don't hang out, and so don't post, for fear of intruding.  But I do like to go around and see what others are doing.  It's fun, enjoying the company, but staying a little detached.
 As far as extending an invitation to others, I was just wondering about everybody. I feel uneasy, now, over how that was written by me, because it is not my place to extend invitations to this thread (or any other). I probably should be more careful.  Even when I have strong opinions here, I really, seriously, don't want to seem brash. Or over-post. Or, whatever.
 Even so, what you wrote was very level-headed, and gave me a calmer perspective, for which am grateful. Thanks !  Sometimes people show up here, briefly, and that usually tends to re-balance those here often.  Thanks, again !

*****
  Paul, I did see your post.  Was just wondering what else you had to say  :)......

*****
  Jeff, as far as some of what's here being angrifying, that probably is true for all of us.  But it is "Hot Topics".  Maybe some of us do go too far and need to rein ourselves in, as a courtesy to others.  But, it is kind of seductive to let it all hang out.
  Did see your post, and appreciated someone else weighing in about The Oprah. But was upstairs on my cranky computer, when I read it, and couldn't thank you, last night.

 For whatever reason, am feeling a little too conspicuous.  Will be back, toning down whatever posts I make. This can be a fun thread, but, myself, I admit I need to think before typing  :P.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 12, 2013, 12:55:32 PM
  Jeff, as far as some of what's here being angrifying, that probably is true for all of us.  But it is "Hot Topics".  Maybe some of us do go too far and need to rein ourselves in, as a courtesy to others.  But, it is kind of seductive to let it all hang out.

That's the Internet for you!  :D

Quote
Did see your post, and appreciated someone else weighing in about The Oprah. But was upstairs on my cranky computer, when I read it, and couldn't thank you, last night.

NP. You've got a cranky computer and I've got an antique computer!  :D

I guess Oprah thinks she's entitled, or something. I don't mean to demean the woman's accomplishments, which are impressive, but I remember her when she was a not-much-of-anybody in Baltimore.  :D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 12, 2013, 06:12:10 PM
.....That's the Internet for you!  :D
  Amen, there  :P......
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 13, 2013, 12:33:25 PM

Odds and ends.

1.) PBS Newshour had some interesting things on it last night.  It's first segment was about
Eric Holder's speech about new policies concerning how we operate prisons and prison sentences,
etc.

One thing that was mentioned that I found quite astounding is that the United States has about 5%
of the world's population, but has 25% of the prison population of the world.  With a statistic like that
something is wrong somewhere.  (Although one panelist thought that was a good thing.)

***

2.) They also did a segment on the backlash from around the world that Russia is receiving for their
stance and new laws concerning GLBT issues and how the upcoming Sochi Olympics has become a
focal point for the issue. Apparently, everywhere Putin has visited in Europe has become a staging
area for protests against this. Boycotts have been called for all over the world, but that idea is not
gaining traction.  In NYC there were protests at Russia's ambassadors' residence and the ambassador
tried to alleviate any fear of GLBT persons participating in the Olympics or GLBT tourists attending them,
although he added, "...but we expect one to respect our laws."

This issue doesn't seem like it'll go away any time soon (good) and with Obama's support in this
area, I'm hoping more GLBT athletes will come out for the upcoming games. I, personally, am not
for boycotts of the olympics as I've stated previously, but I have no problem with people speaking
out in this area at the Olympics, which would make more impact if you ask me.  THere's also a TDS
news item about this in today's edition.

***

3.) The news hour also had a segment about police departments in the U.S. who are using
electronics to read people's car license plates and track them, store the information and
possibly use it against you.  (Example: The police in one city were reading all the license
plates of cars that were attending a certain Mosque and to subsequently track the places
where these cars were visiting or travelling to.)  Sound familiar?

***

4.) The Governor of North Carolina signed a stringent photo ID law into effect which will also
cut a week off current early voting periods in what the bill sponsors say will prevent rampant
voter fraud, even though NO rampant voter fraud is happening in North Carolina.  I suspect
it's rampant VOTING that they're really afraid of.

***

5.) And Bayard Rustin will receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest possible civilian honor,
from President Obama.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on August 13, 2013, 02:08:48 PM
JOHANNESBURG - A South African police spokesman says Oscar Pistorius will be served with an indictment now that police have completed an investigation into the shooting death of his girlfriend.

Spokesman Lt. Gen. Solomon Makgale said Tuesday the investigation team is convinced Pistorius has a charge to answer.

Pistorius will appear in a Pretoria court Monday. Makgale said it is expected Pistorius will be served with the indictment and a trial date will be set.

Pistorius says he accidentally shot his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Feb. 14. The state alleges the couple may have argued and he intentionally killed her.

The double-amputee Olympian may face a life sentence in prison, with a minimum of 25 years, if convicted of a charge of premeditated murder. He was freed on bail Feb. 22.



http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/police-finalize-investigation-shooting-oscar-pistorius-serve-indictment-145637537.html




Finally, thank goodness!!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 13, 2013, 04:21:08 PM
 Oh, well, here I was, complaining about my having been wildly tormented during the Weinmann court martial, here in Norfolk, as a suppressed witness to false testimony.
 Meh.  I was too young to hear much about the original programs.  Check out COINTELPRO, on Wikipedia. The FBI's long-running program to impose social order by discrediting dissidents, making false arrests, psy-ops to disorient the target, destroying people's jobs, and, yes, murder.  More fully exposed after Watergate, in the Senate Hearings in the 1970's.
 Early targets included MLK, liberals, and social activists.  They tossed in some KKK disruption as a sop to suggest some balance.
  I did notice NCIS took down off their recent web page, the bragging about their constant vigilance against Quakers and the Catholic Workers groups, in Navy towns  ::).  That got on their grid after the Berrigan Brothers (2 Catholic monks), got onto the Navy Base here, and poured blood on a submarine.  I guess NCIS figured out, their persecution of two religious groups, wasn't good PR. Or got a grant for better PR, and that was the first stupid to be cleaned up.
 I wonder, with the new hi-tech, just how many distinct lists they DO have.  On anybody who has expressed a political view.  And how many sealed-off cubbyholes, ready to do the grotesque, with complete deniability.
 BTW, a footnote to my earlier posts.  How did I know it was the Norfolk Bellinger Street office conducting the cover-up of the Weinmann domestic spying case?  Kind of easy, really. 7 years ago, to get their intimidation to stop....I just called their office. Typical, goofy, Tony. They hit me with an ear-piercing screeching noise.  Later, calling them again, one guy threatened to come over and beat me to a pulp.  Yeah, Bellinger street was running the criminal cover-up.  When I moved out of their jurisdiction, near to the Amphibious Base office of NCIS, those guys didn't want any part of the felonies, and left me alone.
  Meanwhile, appealing to the FBI, I did get some help  :).  I know they can have criminal cubbyholes, too, but, in this case, they were as helpful as they could be, without re-igniting the NCIS-FBI feuds and wars.
 Anyway, it's been 7 years.  Edward Snowden's early revelations, I fully believe, are only the tip of the iceberg.
It'll all be ok for those who were never hit,(you guys), unless there's economic or social disorder. Or the emergence of extremist politicians at the top.  Think: the Weimar Republic. And what followed.
 I hope some of you do look up COINTELPRO.  That's the old stuff. And so, perhaps, be less indifferent to what has almost certainly, exploded, since.  And.....wait and hope for another collapse of this creepy stuff.
 Myself, I'll accept, each generation has its challenge.  I met mine.  I have a right to tv, books, and goofing off  :).
And also supporting the younger generation, who have so much more at stake.
 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 13, 2013, 04:31:06 PM
For accuracy's sake, the Berrigan brothers weren't monks, they were Jesuits.

Like Pope Francis!

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 13, 2013, 04:32:15 PM
...they also did a segment on the backlash from around the world that Russia is receiving for their
stance and new laws concerning GLBT issues and how the upcoming Sochi Olympics has become a
focal point for the issue. Apparently, everywhere Putin has visited in Europe has become a staging
area for protests against this. Boycotts have been called for all over the world, but that idea is not
gaining traction.  In NYC there were protests at Russia's ambassadors' residence and the ambassador
tried to alleviate any fear of GLBT persons participating in the Olympics or GLBT tourists attending them,
although he added, "...but we expect one to respect our laws."

This issue doesn't seem like it'll go away any time soon (good) and with Obama's support in this
area, I'm hoping more GLBT athletes will come out for the upcoming games. I, personally, am not
for boycotts of the olympics as I've stated previously, but I have no problem with people speaking
out in this area at the Olympics, which would make more impact if you ask me.  THere's also a TDS
news item about this in today's edition.

 I don't think this is going to go away.  The Russian goverment were already morons for having the Winter Olympics so near to Chechneya.  Now, they go and ignite a direct confrontation with the European Union, American networks (from whence the money derives), and a world-wide movement in the opposite directon.
 Dumb asses.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 13, 2013, 04:35:14 PM
For accuracy's sake, the Berrigan brothers weren't monks, they were Jesuits.

Like Pope Francis!
 Didn't know that, Fritz !  Yay, for the Jesuits  :) !!!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 13, 2013, 05:32:09 PM
Back in the mid 70s, I read a book about subliminal suggestion and was pissed for years. I mean a good deep down gut churning anger. It took a while but I'm over it now.

The guy who invented/owns ORACLE was interviewed on national tv this evening. The only question was how he feels about NSA spying and his answer was it has been going on for far longer than NSA, so no big deal. His "red line" would be the political parties using spying/data collection against members of each other. (As if they don't do that already.)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 13, 2013, 05:47:56 PM
I don't think this is going to go away.  The Russian goverment were already morons for having the Winter Olympics so near to Chechneya.  Now, they go and ignite a direct confrontation with the European Union, American networks (from whence the money derives), and a world-wide movement in the opposite directon.
 Dumb asses.

It should be one of the most interesting Winter Olympics ever.

Now the IOC is on board with Putin:

Olympic Committee threatens to punish athletes who fight for gay Russians
Forget the Russian police, athletes who back gay rights during Sochi’s Winter Games may be punishedby the Olympic Committee

- See more at: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/olympic-committee-threatens-punish-athletes-who-fight-gay-russians120813#sthash.F38Z5MFL.dpuf


The thing is, just being yourself shouldn't be considered political propaganda by the IOC.  I mean if Johnny Weir happens to refer to his husband, who is Russian-American btw, during an interview he could be arrested, fined, imprisoned and deported.  Openly gay Weir is apparently famous in Russia so just showing up might get him arrested.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 13, 2013, 09:06:17 PM
Does "backing gay rights"or "fighting for gay Russians" include a shout out to your husband?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 13, 2013, 10:04:26 PM
Does "backing gay rights"or "fighting for gay Russians" include a shout out to your husband?

Apparently, yes.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 13, 2013, 10:21:25 PM
[...]

2.) They also did a segment on the backlash from around the world that Russia is receiving for their
stance and new laws concerning GLBT issues and how the upcoming Sochi Olympics has become a
focal point for the issue. Apparently, everywhere Putin has visited in Europe has become a staging
area for protests against this. Boycotts have been called for all over the world, but that idea is not
gaining traction. In NYC there were protests at Russia's ambassadors' residence and the ambassador
tried to alleviate any fear of GLBT persons participating in the Olympics or GLBT tourists attending them,
although he added, "...but we expect one to respect our laws."


This issue doesn't seem like it'll go away any time soon (good) and with Obama's support in this
area, I'm hoping more GLBT athletes will come out for the upcoming games. I, personally, am not
for boycotts of the olympics as I've stated previously, but I have no problem with people speaking
out in this area at the Olympics, which would make more impact if you ask me.  THere's also a TDS
news item about this in today's edition.

[...]



(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/Sochi-02_zpsc059b125.jpg)

It's Pride week here in Montreal and tonight there was a candlelight vigil in front of the Russian Consulate which I attended.  It was raining slightly but the event still attracted about 2,000 people.  It was a bit too kumbaya-ish for my tastes but i did enjoy it nonetheless.  For some bizarre reason there was a gospel singer at the end of the (one hour) event.  I think a Pussy Riot like lesbian punk band would have been more appropriate. Gospel?! Sheesh!

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 13, 2013, 10:39:37 PM
Apparently, yes.

Apparent to whom?
And when the Olympics... or anything else... is in the US (or Canada) aren't the competitors expected to obey the laws of the land? Don't female reporters cover their heads and arms and have drivers in some Musim countries? Isn't there some saying like "when in Rome...?"
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: chapeaugris on August 14, 2013, 01:37:14 AM
It's the winter Olympics, right? Then start a campaign to get foreign spectators to wear rainbow caps to events. They'll show up well on TV, everyone knows what they mean, and are the police really going to wade into the crowds and beat up anyone wearing one?

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/soulan09/rainbow-cap_zps7609ff6e.jpg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/soulan09/media/rainbow-cap_zps7609ff6e.jpg.html)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 14, 2013, 06:40:03 AM
And when the Olympics... or anything else... is in the US (or Canada) aren't the competitors expected to obey the laws of the land? Don't female reporters cover their heads and arms and have drivers in some Musim countries? Isn't there some saying like "when in Rome...?"

Watching female skaters and gymnasts doing their thing while wearing burquas or chadors would definitely make for some high-class entertainment.  Even in a country where they could get by dressed basically like Amish women, it would be beyond hilarious.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 14, 2013, 08:04:31 AM
It's the winter Olympics, right? Then start a campaign to get foreign spectators to wear rainbow caps to events. They'll show up well on TV, everyone knows what they mean, and are the police really going to wade into the crowds and beat up anyone wearing one?

(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc178/soulan09/rainbow-cap_zps7609ff6e.jpg) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/soulan09/media/rainbow-cap_zps7609ff6e.jpg.html)

Great idea! Mittens and scarves too.

I supposed it's too late for the US team uniforms to be redone.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 14, 2013, 08:06:52 AM
Watching female skaters and gymnasts doing their thing while wearing burquas or chadors would definitely make for some high-class entertainment.  Even in a country where they could get by dressed basically like Amish women, it would be beyond hilarious.

Un fortunately, those countries don't seem to participate in winter sports.
But haven't there been some women who compete in track or something wearing long outfits and head coverings?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 14, 2013, 08:12:28 AM

American Runner Dedicates Moscow Silver Medal
To His Gay Friends Amid Russia's Anti-Gay Crackdown

by Tony Manfred Aug. 14, 2013

American track and field star Nick Symmonds has become the first athlete to  criticize Russia's new anti-gay
laws while competing on Russian soil.   

"I disagree with their laws and I disagree with their views," he told reporters.

http://www.insider.com/nick-symmonds (http://www.businessinsider.com/nick-symmonds-criticizes-russias-gay-laws-before-olympics-2013-8)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 14, 2013, 08:26:33 AM

So we know what we're talking about, perhaps this article would be in order:

Questions and Answers on Anti-Gay Legislation in Russia

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/questions-and-answers-on-anti-gay-legislation-in-russia/2013/08/12/3371e952-035f-11e3-bfc5-406b928603b2_story.html)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 14, 2013, 08:28:07 AM

And a sampling of headline stories from the past two days:

Russia Anti-Gay Bill: Russia Passes Radical Family Values Bill
FIFA asks Russia to explain anti-gay law
For Sochi's Sake, NBC Can't Ignore Russia's Anti-Gay Laws
Protests, boycott calls as anger grows over Russia anti-gay laws
Pat Buchanan defends Putin on Russia's new anti-gay laws
The Battle Over Russia's Anti-Gay Law
Russia's Anti-Gay Law Sparks Backlash
Russian Sports Official Defends Anti-Gay Law, Compares Gays To Nazis
Russia's anti-gay law inspires new play at King's Head Theatre
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 14, 2013, 02:18:18 PM
So fascinating to have Buchanan and others praising the leader of the Evil Empire. St Ronald must be shaking his head on his heavenly throne.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 14, 2013, 04:38:28 PM
Watching female skaters and gymnasts doing their thing while wearing burquas or chadors would definitely make for some high-class entertainment.  Even in a country where they could get by dressed basically like Amish women, it would be beyond hilarious.

UAE's first female figure skater - Zahra Lari
(http://static.sport360.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/main_image/JJC06_26SahraLary%205%20(Read-Only).jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 14, 2013, 05:50:16 PM
American Runner Dedicates Moscow Silver Medal
To His Gay Friends Amid Russia's Anti-Gay Crackdown

by Tony Manfred Aug. 14, 2013

American track and field star Nick Symmonds has become the first athlete to  criticize Russia's new anti-gay
laws while competing on Russian soil.   

"I disagree with their laws and I disagree with their views," he told reporters.

http://www.insider.com/nick-symmonds (http://www.businessinsider.com/nick-symmonds-criticizes-russias-gay-laws-before-olympics-2013-8)

Way to go, Nick!

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/nick-symmonds-01_zps39731ad6.jpg)

Good to know he didn't get fined, it should encourage Olympic athletes to make statements as well.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 15, 2013, 06:45:59 AM
UAE's first female figure skater - Zahra Lari
(http://static.sport360.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/main_image/JJC06_26SahraLary%205%20(Read-Only).jpg)

Nice outfit!  I stand corrected.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 15, 2013, 06:49:18 AM

This article points out that archeological finds have often been discovered in odd ways.   This 12th century discovery in Germany involved a badger:

"A badger living in the countryside near the town of Stolpe recently uncovered a remarkable site: the 12th-century burial ground of eight people, two of whom were apparently Slavic warlords.

"Two sculptors who live in the area had been watching a badger digging a large sett (den). Upon closer examination, they noticed a pelvic bone inside the sett. 'We pushed a camera into the badger's sett and took photos by remote control,' Hendrikje Ring, one of the sculptors, told Der Spiegel. 'We found pieces of jewelry, retrieved them and contacted the authorities.' "

http://news.yahoo.com/dig-badger-unearths-medieval-treasure-113529491.html


The story stated that the historical period was a transitional one;  "It highlights the time of upheaval when the rule of the Slavic tribes was coming to an end."
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: tfferg on August 15, 2013, 07:16:04 AM
Historic ruling: Judge orders anti-gay Scott Lively to stand trial for crimes against humanity

Extremist anti-gay US pastor is accused of engineering the Uganda 'Kill The Gays' bill, saying LGBT people are the 'new Nazis' and recommending Russia's 'gay propaganda' laws
15 AUGUST 2013 | BY JOE MORGAN

For the first time, a federal US judge has ruled a persecution of LGBT people is a crime against humanity.

This sets a precedent ensuring the fundamental human rights of LGBTI people are protected under international law.

It comes as a Ugandan LGBTI advocacy organization filed a lawsuit against prominent US anti-gay extremist Scott Lively.

Accused of helping to play a part in the persecution, arrest and murder of gay people in Uganda, Lively’s lawyers requested to dismiss the lawsuit.

Michael Ponsor, the US District Judge in Springfield, Maryland, said: ‘Widespread, systematic persecution of LGBTI people constitutes a crime against humanity that unquestionably violates international norms.’

‘The history and current existence of discrimination against LGBTI people is precisely what qualifies them as a distinct targeted group eligible for protection under international law.

‘The fact that a group continues to be vulnerable to widespread, systematic persecution in some parts of the world simply cannot shield one who commits a crime against humanity from liability.’

The lawsuit states Lively collaborated with key Ugandan government officials and religious leaders that allegedly resulted in the introduction of the ‘Kill The Gays’ bill.

The founder of Abiding Truth Ministries, Lively has made a career of stirring up anti-gay feelings in the USA and across the world.

He co-authored The Pink Swastika, which suggests ‘homosexuals were the true inventors of Nazism and the guiding force behind many Nazi atrocities’ and the rainbow flag is a symbol of the ‘end times’.

In 2007, Lively also toured 50 cities in Russia where he is accused of recommending a ban on anti-gay propaganda.

Frank Mugisha, director of Sexual Minorities Uganda, said: ‘Today’s ruling is a significant victory for human rights everywhere but most especially for LGBTI Ugandans who are seeking accountability from those orchestrating our persecution.’

While the court battle is certainly not over, it will allow the Ugandan group to seek justice for what they believe Lively has done.

[snip]

- See more at: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/historic-ruling-judge-orders-anti-gay-scott-lively-stand-trial-crimes-against-humanity150813#sthash.AGkSCB1V.dpuf (http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/historic-ruling-judge-orders-anti-gay-scott-lively-stand-trial-crimes-against-humanity150813#sthash.AGkSCB1V.dpuf)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 15, 2013, 07:26:26 AM
Chinese zoo's 'African lion' exposed when dog substitute barks

A Chinese zoo's supposed "African lion" was exposed as a fraud when the dog used as a substitute started barking.

The zoo in the People's Park of Luohe, in the central province of Henan, replaced exotic exhibits with common species, according to the state-run Beijing Youth Daily.

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20August%202013/TibetanMastiff_zps76a770f4.jpg) (http://s412.photobucket.com/user/rasalgethi_photo/media/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20August%202013/TibetanMastiff_zps76a770f4.jpg.html)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-15/hairy-dog-disguised-as-lion/4890386



Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 15, 2013, 07:27:30 AM
I do wonder why that reminds me of all the hoo-haa about Edward Snowden being on board President Morales’ private jet.    (http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/emoticons/01d752b7.gif)

A “plot device” worthy of the venerable WSG himself, it would appear...

“Things are seldom what they seem,
Skim milk masquerades as cream;
Highlows pass as patent leathers;
Jackdaws strut in peacock's feathers.”

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 15, 2013, 07:56:35 AM
Despite desperate efforts at CPR, California's Prop 8 is officially dead.


SAN FRANCISCO -- The California Supreme Court refused Wednesday to revive Proposition 8, ending the last remaining legal challenge to same-sex marriage in the state.

Meeting in closed session, the state high court rejected arguments by ProtectMarriage, Proposition 8’s sponsors, that only an appellate court could overturn a statewide law. . . .

In its challenge before the state’s highest court, ProtectMarriage argued that a single judge lacked the authority to overturn a state constitutional amendment. The group also contended that Walker’s injunction applied to two counties at most and that state officials had overstepped their authority by ordering county clerks throughout California to issue same-sex marriage licenses.

State officials countered that the challenge was a veiled attempt to persuade a state court to interfere with a federal judge’s order in violation of the U.S. Constitution.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-california-supreme-court-prop-8-20130814,0,1311803.story
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 15, 2013, 10:15:56 AM
The California Supreme Court refused Wednesday to revive Proposition 8, ending the last remaining legal challenge to same-sex marriage in the state.

Like a soft landing...a gentle breeze...you know how soothing that sounds...ending...ending the last remaining
legal challenge
...let it silently blow away into the dustbin of history...

After 4 years, 9 months, 10 days...

...that thorn in my side has finally been removed!

(I always have a happy thought that when we had our Brokie gathering
in Los Angeles in 2008, marriage equality was in effect!)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 15, 2013, 10:47:18 AM

I do wonder why that reminds me of all the hoo-haa about Edward Snowden being on board
President Morales’ jet.

I wonder, too.

***

By the way, in the spirit of TIC--tongue in cheek:    :P

...don't make me work so hard, Paul!  While I was familiar, albeit vaguely,
with the lines you posted, the WSG initials didn't ring a bell, nor did typing them into
google help as what came up was W. S. G. Bateman (Author of Australia's Maritime
Bridge Into Asia) or the Wage Slave's Glossary. But eventually I figured out it was
W.S. Gilbert of Gilbert & Sullivan.

It's enough that I keep having to figure out Internet Acronyms because people can't
type whole words anymore much less trying to figure out the initials of authors, especially
ones usually paired with another person!  INCYDK, The Internet Dictionary has nearly 10,000
acronyms listed! You know, like LOL.  Anyway, No SNH, though I hope my post isn't TLTR.

And in the DID YOU KNOW THIS department:

The TOP TEN slang look ups currently in the Internet Dictionary today are:
(and how many did anyone know?  Me? I actually knew "one" of them!)

1.  DIKY
2.  WBU
3.  HRU
4.  HBU
5.  WBY
6.  HBY
7.  KMSL
8.  TTYS
9.  CIA
10. PREE   

Also, FYI, Re: Internet "Slang Look Ups"
Internet slang is also known as computer slang, slang terms,
acronyms, abbreviations and computer lingo.

http://www.internetslang.com/

Now, FWIW, in deference to WSG, should we "talk about the weather"...?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 15, 2013, 11:51:58 AM

Nick Symmonds needs a gold medal instead of a silver, to match his hair!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 15, 2013, 12:08:02 PM

Russian Jews outraged after Stephen Fry compared gay propaganda ban to Nazi Germany
Link:  http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/

Russia’s Jewish community has lashed out at British actor Stephen Fry after he compared the country’s “gay propaganda” ban to Hitler’s persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany. Fry, an openly gay Jewish-British writer, actor, and television host, urged UK Prime Minister David Cameron and the International Olympic Committee (IOC) to boycott the Sochi 2014 Winter Olympics. The move was in response to a recently adopted Russian law which prohibits the propaganda of homosexuality among minors.

In an open letter to Cameron and the IOC, he accused Russia of “making scapegoats of gay people, just as Hitler did Jews.”  The actor also stated that President Putin “is eerily repeating the insane crime” of Hitler, “only this time against LGBT Russians.”

Russia’s Jewish community said it is outraged by Fry’s rhetoric, calling it a provocation.  “Unfortunately, yet again we see people attempting to use sacred memory about the genocide against the Jews and the Holocaust for their own purposes,” Russia’s Chief Rabbi, Berl Lazar, told ITAR-TASS on Monday. He believes that such cynicism insults the memory of millions of people who were murdered during World War II “because of their nationality and faith.”   The Chief Rabbi emphasized that the gay propaganda ban is in no way aimed at violating the rights of LGBT individuals, but rather serves to protect children “who are open to any kind of influence” from issues surrounding homosexuality.   (See Link for more.)


***********************************

We've seen this reaction from African American groups who don't want their struggle compared
to any GLBT struggle.

The question is, are these groups being homophobic or do they really see no difference or
are they being territorial, as in "my struggle is worse than your struggle?"  Do people really
not see correllating similarities?

Would these same Jeiwish groups in Russia have objected if Stephen Fry had framed it this way
instead?

"...at British actor Stephen Fry after he compared the country’s 'gay propaganda' ban to Hitler’s persecution of Gays in Nazi Germany."

When Jewish groups or African American groups want to separate their struggles with those of the
GLBT community or to distance themselves because they think it tarnishes their own history or they
can't conceive of any comparisons, I always try to point out that they are denying the gay Jeiwsh
people or the gay black people within their own struggles, because it's the dignity of humanity you
are denying if you cannot see any comparisons, gay people can be found within all of the other groups
who have been struggling for thier dignity throughout the world.  To deny an individual within the
group is to deny the whole, the way I see it.  Are we not all Spartacus?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 15, 2013, 12:15:04 PM
Link:  http://rt.com/news/russia-jews-fry-comment-396/

Russia’s Chief Rabbi, Berl Lazar, told ITAR-TASS on Monday he believes that such cynicism insults the memory of millions of people who were murdered during World War II “because of their nationality and faith.”   The Chief Rabbi emphasized that the gay propaganda ban is in no way aimed at violating the rights of LGBT individuals, but rather serves to protect children “who are open to any kind of influence” from issues surrounding homosexuality.

I have to add: I am insulted, Merl, by your territorial ignorance.  Don't compare US to your people?  Are you
saying, Merl, it was okay for Hitler to have murdered gay people?  What about Jewish gay people? And, oh, it's
always the children who get dragged into the conversation when it comes to the dignity of gay people, as though
none of the children they speak of are gay.

Insult indeed.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 15, 2013, 12:32:10 PM
Russian gay ban: Athletes in Moscow wear rainbow fingernails
by Chris Lehourites, The Associated Press
 --  08/15/2013

MOSCOW  — At least two Swedish athletes at the world championships in Moscow competed with rainbow-colored fingernails Thursday, showing support for gays and lesbians in contrast to Russia's new anti-gay law.

High jumper Emma Green posted a picture of her fingers on the social media site Instagram, saying "Nails painted in the colors of the rainbow. This is to show what I stand for. I think sports are about respecting and tolerating each other," Green told the Swedish news agency TT.

Swedish sprinter Moa Hjelmer also sported rainbow-colored nails when she ran Thursday in the 200-meter heats at Luzhniki Stadium. "Some teammates have done the same," Sweden team spokesman Fredrik Trahn said. "The federation has not discussed it. It is all up to the athletes."

http://www.alamogordonews.com (http://www.alamogordonews.com/ci_23868074/russian-gay-ban-athletes-moscow-wear-rainbow-fingernails)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 15, 2013, 12:52:53 PM

Personally, I think Nick Symmonds and Emma Green should get together!

(http://www.all-athletics.com/files/imagecache/photos_big/photos/Nick%20Symmonds%20-%20Berlin%20WCH%20Day%209.jpg)(http://www.womenfitness.net/img2013/artimg/jan/Emma-Green.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 15, 2013, 01:13:40 PM
I do wonder why that reminds me of all the hoo-haa about Edward Snowden being on board
President Morales’ private jet.
I wonder, too.

Hmm. A few Gilbertian thoughts have been providing me with late night feverish dreams since early July
about the topsy-turvy nature of the “rumour” that ES was on FAB-01, not to mention
the logistics related to getting him surreptitiously from one international airport to another,
(i.e. Шереме́тьево and Внуково) let alone those involving Домоде́дово, and
the deliciously conflicting reports about what occurred once it’d landed at Schwechat.

Quote from: Lyle
By the way, in the spirit of TIC--tongue in cheek:    :P

...don't make me work so hard, Paul!  
I apologise, and do so most sincerely.   ;D

Quote from: Lyle
While I was familiar, albeit vaguely,
with the lines you posted, the WSG initials didn't ring a bell, nor did typing them into
google help as what came up was W. S. G. Bateman (Author of Australia's Maritime
Bridge Into Asia) or the Wage Slave's Glossary. But eventually I figured out it was
W.S. Gilbert of Gilbert & Sullivan.
And there I was, thinking it was as clear as day, especially to Americans...

Quote from: Lyle
It's enough that I keep having to figure out Internet Acronyms because people can't
type whole words anymore much less trying to figure out the initials of authors, especially
ones usually paired with another person!  INCYDK, The Internet Dictionary has nearly 10,000
acronyms listed! You know, like LOL.  Anyway, No SNH, though I hope my post isn't TLTR.

And in the DID YOU KNOW THIS department:

The TOP TEN slang look ups currently in the Internet Dictionary today are:
(and how many did anyone know?  Me? I actually knew "one" of them!)

1.  DIKY  (Do I know you?)
2.  WBU  (What's Bothering You?)
3.  HRU    (How are you?)
4.  HBU   (He's Bothering You?... Other words could be substituted for "Bothering.")
5.  WBY   (Who or What's Bothering you?)
6.  HBY    (Hi, Baby?)
7.  KMSL  (Kiss My Sweet Lips?)
8.  TTYS  (I want to say “Titty-Titty-Yang-Sang,” for some obscure reason.)
9.  CIA     (I’ve no idea what that means.)
10. PREE   (Preposterously Ridiculous Extinction Event?)
But wouldn’t it defeat their purported purpose if they have to be “looked up?”

Quote from: Lyle
Now, FWIW, in deference to WSG, should we "talk about the weather"...?
That’s from TPOP, another operetta altogether, Lyle!  STTT. LOL.

I think I'll stick to proper words. I have enough problems expressing myself as it is, Lyle.

ROTFLMHO. KMSL.


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 15, 2013, 01:22:32 PM

... I stand corrected.
(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/emoticons/AddEmoticons04251_zps77342a67.gif)

:)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 15, 2013, 02:35:37 PM
But wouldn’t it defeat their purported purpose if they have to be “looked up?”

Exactly, that's what I keep thinking!

Or E,TWIKT for short!

(i.e. Шереме́тьево and Внуково)

I suppose it could be worse!  We have to learn Russian!

That’s from TPOP, another operetta altogether, Lyle!  STTT. LOL.

Now that I knew, I was in a production of that show!

And in West Hollywood at the Celebration Theatre I saw a decidely gay themed version of a
G&S show slightly retitled:  PMS Pinafore!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 15, 2013, 05:27:28 PM
Personally I don't want any other group comparing its struggle to that of women worldwide.
And none does since persecuting and dominating females is acceptable everywhere.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 16, 2013, 10:53:04 AM

Was that meant to start or end a conversation?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 16, 2013, 12:31:35 PM
And in West Hollywood at the Celebration Theatre I saw a decidely gay themed version of a
G&S show slightly retitled:  PMS Pinafore!

He polished those knockers so carefulee that now he is the ruler of the Queen's navee?  >:D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 16, 2013, 03:02:00 PM
 According the the Washington Post, the audit of the NSA for 2012 showed over 2,500 abuses or irregularities invading our privacy.  Some of which were clearly identfied as breaking the law.  So, my question is, can Diane Feinstein and NSA leaders flee to the Moscow airport ?  After all, they ARE guilty of doing the crimes, not just reporting them.
  Will Putin let them in ?  Can they avoid rainbow-colored clothing?

 Also, with the Prez saying Snowden had other recourses, like going to his superiors.....right.  Would that be like the military sex abuses?  Go to your commanding officer?
Sheesh, what a bunch of bull crap.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 16, 2013, 05:24:55 PM
I've heard today that the U.S. Government has finally admitted that Area 51 actually exists.  ;D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 16, 2013, 08:38:29 PM
I heard about that, I was always under the impression that the general consensus of the public was that Area 51 existed.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 17, 2013, 03:41:06 AM
Now that I knew, I was in a production of that show!

Your use of tenses is a delight.  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 17, 2013, 06:53:22 AM
Oops. Just realised I hadn't logged out.  ::)

Ah well.

Anyway, I think this is just brilliant.

Well done, Amy!

http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/yourcommunity/2013/08/arizona-woman-scams-her-telephone-scammer.html

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 17, 2013, 12:15:26 PM
Your use of tenses is a delight.  :)

I suppose I left out a comma, but it was meant to be read as

Now, that  I knew.,,
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 17, 2013, 03:33:09 PM

But wouldn’t it defeat their purported purpose if they have to be “looked up?”




If you have to look it up, you're too old to use it...
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 18, 2013, 09:33:12 AM
Russian gold medalists kiss on medal stand at world championships to protest anti-gay laws

By Maggie Hendricks


Kseniya Ryzhova and Tatyana Firov won a world championship as a part of the 4x400-meter relay team at the IAAF track championships in Moscow. The edged out the American and British teams for the gold. While on the medal stand, they kissed to protest their own country's anti-gay propaganda laws.

This isn't the first protest of Russia's laws that penalize anyone for talking about homosexuality in front of children, but it's the most visible one done by Russian athletes. U.S. runner Nick Symmonds dedicated his silver medal in the 800 meters to his gay friends back home, and Swedish high jumper Emma Green Tregaro painted her nails in a rainbow in honor of LGBT pride.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/russian-gold-medalists-kiss-medal-stand-world-championships-132337366.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 19, 2013, 08:09:17 AM

Australian gay couple marry in NZ as same-sex marriage comes into force

Two Australian men were among the first gay couples to marry in New Zealand this morning [August 19] as same-sex marriage came into force.
Officials say 31 same-sex couples plan to tie the knot today, following the passing of gay marriage laws by the country's parliament in April.


New Zealand is the first Asia-Pacific country and only the 14th in the world to legalise gay marriage.

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20August%202013/4896228_zpse2c2467e.jpg)
Paul McCarthy (left) and Trent Kandler were married in Wellington.  Photo: Getty Images.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-19/australian-gay-couple-marry-in-nz/4895330

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on August 19, 2013, 10:43:40 AM
^^^^^

Good news :)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 19, 2013, 11:14:14 AM
;D  I had heard that there were Austrailian couples heading to NZ to get married.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 19, 2013, 11:20:13 AM

Yay, New Zealand!

(http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/audience.gif)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 19, 2013, 03:14:41 PM
The war against journalists and whistle blowers escalates.

Glenn Greenwald: detaining my partner was a failed attempt at intimidation
The detention of my partner, David Miranda, by UK authorities will have the opposite effect of the one intended

At 6:30 am this morning my time - 5:30 am on the East Coast of the US - I received a telephone call from someone who identified himself as a "security official at Heathrow airport." He told me that my partner, David Miranda, had been "detained" at the London airport "under Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act of 2000."

David had spent the last week in Berlin, where he stayed with Laura Poitras, the US filmmaker who has worked with me extensively on the NSA stories. A Brazilian citizen, he was returning to our home in Rio de Janeiro this morning on British Airways, flying first to London and then on to Rio. When he arrived in London this morning, he was detained.

At the time the "security official" called me, David had been detained for 3 hours. The security official told me that they had the right to detain him for up to 9 hours in order to question him, at which point they could either arrest and charge him or ask a court to extend the question time. The official - who refused to give his name but would only identify himself by his number: 203654 - said David was not allowed to have a lawyer present, nor would they allow me to talk to him.

I immediately contacted the Guardian, which sent lawyers to the airport, as well various Brazilian officials I know. Within the hour, several senior Brazilian officials were engaged and expressing indignation over what was being done. The Guardian has the full story here.
[...]
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/18/david-miranda-detained-uk-nsa
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 19, 2013, 03:39:28 PM
Geaux Aotearoa!

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 20, 2013, 09:30:51 AM
The war against journalists and whistle blowers escalates.

War on journalists, or just doing their job?  A different viewpoint:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231711/why-does-being-a-relative-of-glenn-greenwald-place-you-above-the-law/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231711/why-does-being-a-relative-of-glenn-greenwald-place-you-above-the-law/)

When I first heard Miranda had been detained at Heathrow for nine hours under anti-terror legislation I thought it was a disgrace. I assumed, as did others, that it was an act of petty vengeance and intimidation aimed at the man who had become a very large thorn in the side of the UK and US governments through his publication of information supplied by former NSA employee Edward Snowden.

But as the Miranda story has unfolded, it’s also started to unravel. First we were told that Miranda was not merely a disinterested observer to the Snowden saga but a journalist himself, who was working with Greenwald on the story. But then it became clear Miranda was not actually a journalist at all. What’s more, he wasn’t even that clear what it was he was carrying for his partner. So Miranda arrives at Heathrow. The UK intelligence services are aware of his movements, because that’s what intelligence services do. What’s more, they know he’s potentially carrying highly classified information that, if it fell into the wrong hands, could seriously compromise UK national security.

We know that the release of this information would be damaging, for two reasons. The first is because Glenn Greenwald boasted that it would. On hearing of his partner’s detention, Greenwald said: “I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.” Whatever Miranda was carrying, it had the potential to make an entire nation sorry.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 20, 2013, 09:55:56 AM
Why is it always the people teasing the big dog who cry the loudest when they get nipped?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 20, 2013, 10:53:38 AM
War on journalists, or just doing their job?  A different viewpoint:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231711/why-does-being-a-relative-of-glenn-greenwald-place-you-above-the-law/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231711/why-does-being-a-relative-of-glenn-greenwald-place-you-above-the-law/)

When I first heard Miranda had been detained at Heathrow for nine hours under anti-terror legislation I thought it was a disgrace. I assumed, as did others, that it was an act of petty vengeance and intimidation aimed at the man who had become a very large thorn in the side of the UK and US governments through his publication of information supplied by former NSA employee Edward Snowden.

But as the Miranda story has unfolded, it’s also started to unravel. First we were told that Miranda was not merely a disinterested observer to the Snowden saga but a journalist himself, who was working with Greenwald on the story. But then it became clear Miranda was not actually a journalist at all. What’s more, he wasn’t even that clear what it was he was carrying for his partner. So Miranda arrives at Heathrow. The UK intelligence services are aware of his movements, because that’s what intelligence services do. What’s more, they know he’s potentially carrying highly classified information that, if it fell into the wrong hands, could seriously compromise UK national security.

We know that the release of this information would be damaging, for two reasons. The first is because Glenn Greenwald boasted that it would. On hearing of his partner’s detention, Greenwald said: “I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.” Whatever Miranda was carrying, it had the potential to make an entire nation sorry.


The info may be damaging but it isn't terrorism. Miranda was detained illegally.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 20, 2013, 12:56:14 PM
Guardian Editor: U.K. 'Security Experts' Entered Offices And Destroyed Hard Drives

Alan Rusbridger, editor of The Guardian, wrote on Monday about an unsettling encounter with "security experts" from the U.K.'s GCHQ intelligence agency.

According to Rusbridger, "a very senior government official" contacted him about two months ago demanding the surrender or destruction of all materials in the publication's possession relating to the surveillance operations uncovered by Edward Snowden.

About a month later, Rusbridger recalls receiving a phone call "from the centre of government" in which he was told, "You've had your fun. Now we want the stuff back." He goes on to explain:

There followed further meetings with shadowy Whitehall figures. The demand was the same: hand the Snowden material back or destroy it. I explained that we could not research and report on this subject if we complied with this request. The man from Whitehall looked mystified. "You've had your debate. There's no need to write any more."
During one meeting, Rusbridger explained to an official that if the British government were to take legal steps in order to roadblock the paper's reporting, the work could simply be done outside of the country. That's when things took a disturbing turn:

The man was unmoved. And so one of the more bizarre moments in the Guardian's long history occurred – with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian's basement just to make sure there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents. "We can call off the black helicopters," joked one as we swept up the remains of a MacBook Pro.
[...]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/19/guardian-hard-drives_n_3782382.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 20, 2013, 01:10:43 PM
Why is it always the people teasing the big dog who cry the loudest when they get nipped?
  Fair enough, as far as that goes, Sherry.

 But, extending the dog metaphor (analogy?), in other directions, sometimes a big dog is supposed to be a Golden Lab, but turns out to be a Doberman on meth.
 And some big dogs are just bullies.
Which leads me to venture, all dogs do NOT go to heaven.  Some may have a different destination  :P.....
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 20, 2013, 01:25:26 PM
FWIW
There is no such thing as a golden Lab. All Labs are Labs. People often describe them by their colors, the three main ones being black, yellow and chocolate. Then there is a Golden Retriever which is a completely different breed (although it is being bred for the same body type and boning as the Lab, a big, unwelcome mistake, in my opinion.) The Doberman Pincher is breed entirely different in every aspect... structure, color and trainability.
NONE of them is inherently a bully, but none should be teased with the expectation that it is safe.
Same goes for smaller dogs, like the Chihuahua and Maltese.

And children and roommates and co-workers as well as strangers on the street.

And same goes for governments and big businesses and any "power" organization.
If you must tease, it is best to do so from a distance and with some form of protection between you.
And if you get bit, take your lumps and admit you started it, without whining.
Proceed at your own risk, but if it is important to you, by all means, proceed.
Just don't tease any dogs while you're doing so.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 20, 2013, 06:06:47 PM
Is the new First Puppy a sign of troubles to come?


What’s the connection between Sunny, the new First Puppy at the White House, and storm clouds on the horizon in Washington? Recent tongue-in-cheek political science research shows there might actually be one.

On Monday, the Obama administration announced the addition of Sunny, a second Portuguese Water Dog, to their family.

The whole issue of dogs and politics got a boost in the 2012 presidential election, when researchers and pundits debated the significance of stories about Mitt Romney’s adventure with his dog.

Romney drove 12 hours in 1983 with his dog, Seamus, on top of the family’s car in a dog carrier. When his opponent, President Barack Obama, joked about the incident, the political fur flew.

But the flap also brought to the public’s attention a July 2012 article in the journal Political Science and Politics, where researchers said the White House has used pets since the 1960s as public relations props during times of political scandal and international tension.

The researchers said more study has to be done on the topic, but called it a groundbreaking “contribution to a research program that will bring the dog into political analysis.”

The Washington Post’s Sarah Kliff broke down the research report about the timing of public appearances made by White House pets.

“They tend to get trotted out during times of international conflict and presidential scandal (no similar effect, it’s worth noting, was found for cats). Conversely, they tend to stay out of sight during tough economic times,” she said.

In an effort to maintain full disclosure, the journal did acknowledge that one of the study’s four authors owned a Portuguese Water Dog. The study is also notable for probably the most use of puns about pets ever  in a research paper.

“We present a theoretical framework and statistical evidence to explore the conditions under which presidents are most likely to trot out their four-legged friends. We show that presidents carefully gauge the best and worst times to conduct a dog and pony show. In times of war or scandal, dogs are welcome public companions, but not so in periods of economic hardship,” said the authors.

“In short, we find significant support for Harry Truman’s famous adage that ‘if you want a friend in Washington, get a dog,’” even if it is occasionally necessary to confine it to the doghouse,” they said.

To test their hypotheses, the researchers built a new data set of mentions of presidential pets between January 1961 and January 2011 in the Washington Post and the New York Times, and correlated them to major news events.

“When inserting public approval in the model, scandal, war, and the economic indicators remain significant variables and signed in the predicted direction,” they said.

The translation: the White House lets the dogs out in times of scandal and war, and sends them back to the doghouse when the economic going is tough.

They also pegged the public appearance of pets to about 50 events from the initial Watergate revelations in the Nixon administration to the Scooter Libby indictment in the George W. Bush administration.

For now, it’s unclear what role Sunny will play as a sidekick to Bo, the Obama’s other dog.

But the Obama administration faces plenty of public issues that might lead some dog-conspiracy theorists to claim the Sunny is just another diversion.

"In its official press statement about Sunny, the White House said it expected Bo to be a good big brother to Sunny and that the puppy was expected to spend time in the Oval Office with the President.



http://news.yahoo.com/first-puppy-sign-troubles-come-124010936.html



One point... the new "puppy" is 14 months old.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 20, 2013, 06:27:39 PM
I was always a cat person.



(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00659/news-graphics-2008-_659207a.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 20, 2013, 06:33:12 PM
Is the new First Puppy a sign of troubles to come?


What’s the connection between Sunny, the new First Puppy at the White House, and storm clouds on the horizon in Washington? Recent tongue-in-cheek political science research shows there might actually be one.

On Monday, the Obama administration announced the addition of Sunny, a second Portuguese Water Dog, to their family.

The whole issue of dogs and politics got a boost in the 2012 presidential election, when researchers and pundits debated the significance of stories about Mitt Romney’s adventure with his dog.

Romney drove 12 hours in 1983 with his dog, Seamus, on top of the family’s car in a dog carrier. When his opponent, President Barack Obama, joked about the incident, the political fur flew.

But the flap also brought to the public’s attention a July 2012 article in the journal Political Science and Politics, where researchers said the White House has used pets since the 1960s as public relations props during times of political scandal and international tension.

The researchers said more study has to be done on the topic, but called it a groundbreaking “contribution to a research program that will bring the dog into political analysis.”

The Washington Post’s Sarah Kliff broke down the research report about the timing of public appearances made by White House pets.

“They tend to get trotted out during times of international conflict and presidential scandal (no similar effect, it’s worth noting, was found for cats). Conversely, they tend to stay out of sight during tough economic times,” she said.

In an effort to maintain full disclosure, the journal did acknowledge that one of the study’s four authors owned a Portuguese Water Dog. The study is also notable for probably the most use of puns about pets ever  in a research paper.

“We present a theoretical framework and statistical evidence to explore the conditions under which presidents are most likely to trot out their four-legged friends. We show that presidents carefully gauge the best and worst times to conduct a dog and pony show. In times of war or scandal, dogs are welcome public companions, but not so in periods of economic hardship,” said the authors.

“In short, we find significant support for Harry Truman’s famous adage that ‘if you want a friend in Washington, get a dog,’” even if it is occasionally necessary to confine it to the doghouse,” they said.

To test their hypotheses, the researchers built a new data set of mentions of presidential pets between January 1961 and January 2011 in the Washington Post and the New York Times, and correlated them to major news events.

“When inserting public approval in the model, scandal, war, and the economic indicators remain significant variables and signed in the predicted direction,” they said.

The translation: the White House lets the dogs out in times of scandal and war, and sends them back to the doghouse when the economic going is tough.

They also pegged the public appearance of pets to about 50 events from the initial Watergate revelations in the Nixon administration to the Scooter Libby indictment in the George W. Bush administration.

For now, it’s unclear what role Sunny will play as a sidekick to Bo, the Obama’s other dog.

But the Obama administration faces plenty of public issues that might lead some dog-conspiracy theorists to claim the Sunny is just another diversion.

"In its official press statement about Sunny, the White House said it expected Bo to be a good big brother to Sunny and that the puppy was expected to spend time in the Oval Office with the President.





http://news.yahoo.com/first-puppy-sign-troubles-come-124010936.html



One point... the new "puppy" is 14 months old.

Yeah, quite the hot topic, lol!  ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 20, 2013, 07:01:59 PM
Isn't this "News and Current Events?" Is my browser so old it's not even getting the "subject" line correct?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 21, 2013, 05:47:44 AM

I was always a cat person.

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00659/news-graphics-2008-_659207a.jpg)


Me too, Chuck.

I didn't realise my boy was a jet-setter.   :D


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 21, 2013, 05:53:48 AM
Why is it always the people teasing the big dog who cry the loudest when they get nipped?

Pardon me for saying so, but I do think that that trivialises the issue under discussion.

Not to mention that "teasing" is an inappropriate description of what whistler blowers set out to do.  ::)

I will now put on my armour.  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 21, 2013, 06:10:31 AM
Your use of tenses is a delight.  :)

I suppose I left out a comma, but it was meant to be read as

Now, that  I knew.,,

Or even better, "Now, I knew that, because I was once in a production of TPOP!"

But somehow I preferred your original comment, Lyle.

With revision, it could have read as: "I now know that I knew that I was once in a production of TPOP, but then I forgot that I knew."  :D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 21, 2013, 06:18:13 AM
;D  I had heard that there were Austrailian couples heading to NZ to get married.

According to the report, Chuck, “There has also been overseas interest from Russia, the United States, Hong Kong, Britain, Singapore, Malaysia, Guyana and Belgium.”  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 21, 2013, 06:23:42 AM

I'm thinking of posting something about the Morales/Snowden/Moscow issue which has puzzled me for some time.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 21, 2013, 06:24:51 AM
I’m still thinking about it....  :D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 21, 2013, 06:51:02 AM
I guess this as good a time as any...

Something about the rumour that Edward Snowden was on board the Bolivian Presidential jet doesn’t ring true.

A number of online news sites# repeated information provided by Russia’s news agencies ITAR-Tass and Interfax that Edward Snowden (according to “an unnamed Aeroflot official”)
was on board Aeroflot Flight SU213, due into Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport (SVO) at 17:05 Moscow time (13:05 GMT) on Sunday June 23, and which landed on time at Terminal F.

Although the airport could not verify reports that Snowden was on board both ITAR-Tass and Interfax had confirmed that he was booked on a flight to Havana, Cuba the next day (again citing “unnamed airline officials”). Flight SU213 was the only direct flight from Hong Kong to Moscow on that day, and “upon his arrival Snowden did not leave Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport.”



# Sources:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57590647/u.s-to-russia-give-us-snowden/
http://planefinder.net/about/news/whistleblower-edward-snowden-heading-to-moscow/
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/790954.shtml#.UeP__-AuAUU
http://articles.philly.com/2013-06-25/news/40168088_1_ecuador-asylum-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-asylum-request

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 21, 2013, 06:54:09 AM
However, other sources regarding Snowden’s whereabouts in Moscow differed:

• On July 15, Sterling Beard’s report in the National Review Online stated that “Snowden, currently believed to be living in the transit terminal of Moscow’s Domodedovo airport...”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/353445/greenwald-snowden-has-nsa-blueprints-sterling-beard

• And, in its July 16 report on the leader of Germany’s Opposition Party’s comments of June 29 (that Europe should grant asylum to former CiA operative Edward Snowden), Press TV included this statement:
"Snowden is currently in a transit zone at Domodedovo International Airport in the Russian capital, Moscow, after the United States revoked his passport to prevent him from travelling further."

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/07/01/311692/europe-should-give-asylum-to-snowden/


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 21, 2013, 06:58:02 AM
However, on June 25 PRI’s The World (Global Perspectives for An American Audience) created further confusion.

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20August%202013/PRI_zps55540c63.jpg)

The site broadcast a three minute and a half minutes' long radio interview (https://soundcloud.com/theworld/snowden-still-at-moscow-airport) between Carol Hills and The Guardian’s Moscow correspondent Miriam Elder, who was “covering the Snowden drama from Moscow” and included a transcript of that interview.

In the transcript (http://www.theworld.org/2013/06/snowden-moscow-airport/) Carol Hills states that “Edward Snowden is in Russia, although technically, he’s not. That’s the message from Russian President Vladimir Putin today. Putin confirmed that Snowden, whose leaks revealed the National Security Agency’s secret surveillance program is [in] the transit area of Moscow’s Domodedovo Airport, which means he hasn’t officially set foot on Russian territory yet...”

What Ms Hills says at the start (http://youtu.be/dGFSSk89PZw)# of her interview is identical to the transcript—apart from a one word change, where she says that Snowden is “in the transit area of Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport.”

To be continued...


# The link is to the first 24 seconds of the broadcast.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 21, 2013, 11:13:51 AM

Maybe he's with Matt Laurer and Carmen Sandiego.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 21, 2013, 11:26:15 AM
Anybody see anything about those three knuckleheads from Oklahoma who shot and killed that student from Australia allegedly just because they were bored and had nothing to do?  :(

Does Oklahoma still have and impose capital punishment? I can think of three good candidates for it.  >:(
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 21, 2013, 11:28:14 AM
I was always a cat person.

(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00659/news-graphics-2008-_659207a.jpg)

 Moi, aussi!

My favorite episode of Murphy Brown was when she was at the White House covering a press event after
having been banned from there awhile for bad behavior (ha!) and while there, Socks the cat crawls into
her purse which she discovers upon returning to the newsroom.  Hilarity ensues.  I thought that was such
a clever idea and very funny besides! Anyone else remember that?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Socks_cat_1.JPG/300px-Socks_cat_1.JPG)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 21, 2013, 11:38:07 AM


Just for amusement, what baseball team is this:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/Bo_official_portrait.jpg/250px-Bo_official_portrait.jpg)(http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2009/02/20/socks.jpg)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 21, 2013, 11:42:38 AM
Bosox  ;D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 21, 2013, 11:43:59 AM
Too easy.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 21, 2013, 11:49:33 AM
Anybody see anything about those three knuckleheads from Oklahoma who shot and killed that student from Australia allegedly just because they were bored and had nothing to do?  :(

Does Oklahoma still have and impose capital punishment? I can think of three good candidates for it.  >:(

I saw that the black kid's father says he's innocent because he was just along for the ride.
Man, peer pressure is something else in Oklahoma.
(I was going to say "birds of a feather..." but figured Paul  would think it trivialized socio-economic influences of growing up in the southwest.)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 21, 2013, 11:58:33 AM
Anybody see anything about those three knuckleheads from Oklahoma who shot and killed that student from Australia allegedly just because they were bored and had nothing to do?  :(

Yes, I did and it is so disturbing that it's incomprehensible. Weren't they law abiding citizens with guns, though,
until they weren't?  Reminds me of this: (Angie is a guy, for those who don't know.)

MARTY (1955)

Angie: What do you feel like doing tonight?
Marty: I don't know, Ange. What do you feel like doing?
Angie: We ought to do somethin'. It's Saturday night. I don't want to go bowling like last Saturday.
How about calling up that big girl we picked up in the movies about a month ago up in the RKO Chester?
Marty: I don't know, I didn't really like her.
Angie: Well, what do you feel like doing tonight?
Marty: I don't know, Ange. What do you feel like doing?
Angie: We're back to that, huh? I say to you, 'What do you feel like doing tonight?' And you say back to me, 'I dunno. What do you feel like doing tonight?' Then we wind up bored sitting around your house with a couple of cans of beer watching the Hit Parade on television.

MARTY (2013)

Angie: What do you feel like doing tonight?
Marty: I don't know, Ange. What do you feel like doing?
Angie: We ought to do somethin'. It's Saturday night. I don't want to go bowling like last Saturday.
How about calling up that big girl we picked up in the movies about a month ago up in the RKO Chester?
Marty: I don't know, I didn't really like her.
Angie: Well, what do you feel like doing tonight?
Marty: I don't know, Ange. What do you feel like doing?
Angie: We're back to that, huh? I say to you, 'What do you feel like doing tonight?' And you say back to me, 'I dunno. What do you feel like doing tonight?' Then we wind up bored tracking a random guy down the road and
shooting him in the back.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 21, 2013, 12:07:05 PM
The info may be damaging but it isn't terrorism. Miranda was detained illegally.

I guess England doesn't have Miranda rights,  ;) .
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 21, 2013, 12:10:05 PM

P.S.:  In West Hollywood we're required to be read our Carmen Miranda rights.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 21, 2013, 12:20:30 PM

I'm sure people are aware of this now:

Bradley Manning's court-martial reached an end today, with Army Colonel Denise Lind sentencing him to 35 years in prison. She also ordered a reduction in rank to private, a forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and a dishonorable discharge. He will receive credit for 1,294 days for time served. According to an Army spokesman, Manning would be eligible for parole after serving 1/3 of his sentence; with additional credit for time served, he could face 8-9 years. Manning also has the possibility of a clemency finding that would reduce his sentence.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/21/4642816/bradley-manning-sentenced-wikileaks-case
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 21, 2013, 12:36:18 PM
Anybody see anything about those three knuckleheads from Oklahoma who shot and killed that student from Australia allegedly just because they were bored and had nothing to do?  :(

Does Oklahoma still have and impose capital punishment? I can think of three good candidates for it.  >:(

I heard about them on the way to work, what assholes.  The guy they killed was a 25 year-old Austrailian student/basketball player.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 21, 2013, 12:42:03 PM
I saw that the black kid's father says he's innocent because he was just along for the ride.
Man, peer pressure is something else in Oklahoma.

I haven't as yet seen any photos of the accused, just of the victim. Poor guy.  :(
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 21, 2013, 12:55:28 PM
I wonder which country's laws are tougher in this kind of case, ours, or Austrailia's?  Perhaps since they were so bored some time to a foreign country might do them well.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 21, 2013, 01:14:17 PM
I haven't as yet seen any photos of the accused, just of the victim. Poor guy.  :(

You have heard, haven't you, that they're all teenagers? The black kid is 15, the two whites a few years older.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on August 21, 2013, 02:02:36 PM
That shouldn't matter a whit.  They should be tried as adults. 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on August 21, 2013, 02:04:24 PM
Anybody see anything about those three knuckleheads from Oklahoma who shot and killed that student from Australia allegedly just because they were bored and had nothing to do?  :(

Does Oklahoma still have and impose capital punishment? I can think of three good candidates for it.  >:(

Amen.  Put these three bored pieces of scum criminals out of their misery.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 21, 2013, 02:29:13 PM
Oh, and they were caught because of traffic cameras. Damned infringement on our right to privacy.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 21, 2013, 02:36:51 PM
You have heard, haven't you, that they're all teenagers? The black kid is 15, the two whites a few years older.

Yes, I have heard that they are teenagers. I had not heard any specific ages.

That shouldn't matter a whit.  They should be tried as adults. 

I think I remember hearing this morning that they are going to be charged as adults.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 21, 2013, 04:48:55 PM
Wentworth Miller, "Prison Break" Star, Comes Out As Gay, Declining Russian Film Festival Invite

Chris Geidner - BuzzFeed Staff


Actor Wentworth Miller, of Prison Break, came out as “a gay man” in a letter sent Wednesday to the St. Petersburg International Film Festival, declining his participation because, he writes, “I am deeply troubled by the current attitude toward and treatment of gay men and women by the Russian government.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/wentworth-miller-prison-break-star-comes-out-as-gay-declinin
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 21, 2013, 06:28:18 PM
Wentworth Miller, "Prison Break" Star, Comes Out As Gay, Declining Russian Film Festival Invite

Chris Geidner - BuzzFeed Staff


Actor Wentworth Miller, of Prison Break, came out as “a gay man” in a letter sent Wednesday to the St. Petersburg International Film Festival, declining his participation because, he writes, “I am deeply troubled by the current attitude toward and treatment of gay men and women by the Russian government.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/wentworth-miller-prison-break-star-comes-out-as-gay-declinin

He comes out every five years, but good on him for boycotting Russia.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 21, 2013, 06:35:09 PM
Sadly, not from The Onion:

More Louisiana Republicans Blame President Obama for Hurricane Katrina Response than Bush.

According to a Public Policy Polling survey, 29 percent of Louisiana Republicans say President Obama is more to blame for the botched executive branch response to Hurricane Katrina while just 28 percent blamed George W. Bush. A plurality of 44 percent said they were unsure who was more responsible, even though Hurricane Katrina occurred over three years before Obama entered the presidency when he was still a freshman Senator.
[...]

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/08/21/2503281/louisiana-republicans-blame-president-obama-katrina-response/
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 21, 2013, 07:00:15 PM
Is there no news in Canada? Ever?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 21, 2013, 07:13:52 PM
Is there no news in Canada? Ever?

We have plenty but why would you care about Canadian news, you're "American", lol!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 21, 2013, 07:16:48 PM
I often watch CNN, especially AC350 and Piers Morgan Tonight but man, tonight they are pretty much exactly the same. 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 21, 2013, 10:07:12 PM
I'm sure people are aware of this now:

Bradley Manning's court-martial reached an end today, with Army Colonel Denise Lind sentencing him to 35 years in prison. She also ordered a reduction in rank to private, a forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and a dishonorable discharge. He will receive credit for 1,294 days for time served. According to an Army spokesman, Manning would be eligible for parole after serving 1/3 of his sentence; with additional credit for time served, he could face 8-9 years. Manning also has the possibility of a clemency finding that would reduce his sentence.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/21/4642816/bradley-manning-sentenced-wikileaks-case


(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/War-crimes-01_zps52497770.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 22, 2013, 02:16:51 AM

Funny:

He comes out every five years, but good on him for boycotting Russia.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 22, 2013, 02:18:10 AM

 Funnier:

Is there no news in Canada? Ever?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 22, 2013, 02:20:54 AM

 Funniest:

Tea Party Darling and Republican Presidential Hopeful Texas
Senator Ted Cruz Was Born in Calgary and Is a Canadian Citizen


http://www.slate.com/ted_cruz_calgary_born_texas_republican_has_dual_us_canadian_citizenship.html (http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/08/19/ted_cruz_canada_calgary_born_texas_republican_has_dual_us_canadian_citizenship.html)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 22, 2013, 02:24:40 AM
And we all remain silent.

 I laughed when I read that part.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 22, 2013, 05:42:26 AM
Re: Bradley Manning; If Manning was, as it was stated on our news last night, a somewhat disturbed individual who was in conflict with himself regarding his sexuality and gender, amongst other problems, don't the US Army bear some responsibility for his misdeeds by giving him such a high security clearance?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 22, 2013, 06:08:01 AM
Not if he hid his problems and lied to get where he wanted to be, to get access to military secrets.

And what the HELL does his sexuality have to do with it?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 22, 2013, 06:10:01 AM
That shouldn't matter a whit.  They should be tried as adults. 

I agree with that; this isn't one of those sad incidents you occasionally hear about where a 2-year-old kills a sibling or playmate.

Just my POV: I can remember how, as a teenager, some really hairbrained things absolutely look like good ideas at the time.  So I'd be for some creative sentencing in the case of kids filching a car and taking it for a joy ride, or holding an underaged keg party in a county park.  But deliberately killing someone goes way beyond that.  If by age 15 you don't know better than to kill someone, you'll never be anything but a curse and a menace to anyone around you. 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 22, 2013, 06:11:09 AM
I laughed when I read that part.


I did a lot earlier than that!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 22, 2013, 06:21:53 AM
I saw that the black kid's father says he's innocent because he was just along for the ride.
Man, peer pressure is something else in Oklahoma.
(I was going to say "birds of a feather..." but figured Paul would think it trivialized socio-economic influences of growing up in the southwest.)

I stand by my comment that you trivialised what Greenwald had done in publishing Edward Snowden’s revelations about NSA surveillance by describing it as “teasing the big dog.”

You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but I doubt that Greenwald would agree that his work amounted merely to “teasing.”

Regarding your reference to the Oklahoma killers, perhaps you didn’t realise that there’s a world of difference between describing three arrested felons (Chancey Luna, James Edwards and Michael Jones) as “birds of a feather” and Glenn Greenwald as one of the people who “tease the big dog” and then “cry the loudest when they get nipped.”

You seem to have conveniently overlooked the fact that Greenwald’s partner, a citizen of Brazil, was in transit to Rio de Janiero (so wasn’t even in England) when he was detained without a lawyer for nine hours at Heathrow Airport, had his laptop, cellphone, video game consoles, DVDs and USB sticks confiscated “under Schedule 7 of the UK Terrorism Act of 2000” and was eventually released without charge.

If you believe that there isn’t such a difference between Greenwald and the three men charged with the murder of Chris Lane, I’d be interested in hearing it.

Preferably in the form of a direct post to myself, rather than in another snide parenthetical comment in a post to someone else.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 22, 2013, 06:41:31 AM
Not if he hid his problems and lied to get where he wanted to be, to get access to military secrets.

And what the HELL does his sexuality have to do with it? Tv

Nothing, apart from the fact that he was apparently psychologically troubled about it, which might have made him vulnerable to exploitation.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 22, 2013, 07:15:08 AM
Re: Bradley Manning; If Manning was, as it was stated on our news last night, a somewhat disturbed individual who was in conflict with himself regarding his sexuality and gender, amongst other problems, don't the US Army bear some responsibility for his misdeeds by giving him such a high security clearance?

Not if he hid his problems and lied to get where he wanted to be, to get access to military secrets.

And what the HELL does his sexuality have to do with it?

Nothing, apart from the fact that he was apparently psychologically troubled about it, which might have made him vulnerable to exploitation.

As far as I've heard, "Chelsea" wasn't exlpoited by anybody. And now I hear from this morning's TV news that this convicted felon--and her lawyer--are expecting the U.S. taxpayers to pay for her gender reassignment surgery while she's incarcerated at Leavenworth.

N-o-o-o-o.

She may want to lose her balls, but she's sure got'em now.  ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on August 22, 2013, 07:42:07 AM
I agree with that; this isn't one of those sad incidents you occasionally hear about where a 2-year-old kills a sibling or playmate.

Just my POV: I can remember how, as a teenager, some really hairbrained things absolutely look like good ideas at the time.  So I'd be for some creative sentencing in the case of kids filching a car and taking it for a joy ride, or holding an underaged keg party in a county park.  But deliberately killing someone goes way beyond that.  If by age 15 you don't know better than to kill someone, you'll never be anything but a curse and a menace to anyone around you. 

Exactly--taking a life because they were bored.  I have no patience with that crap. Get rid of their worthless asses now.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 22, 2013, 07:49:33 AM
Exactly--taking a life because they were bored. ...
I heard today that the killing was somehow connected to initiation into a gang of some kind...

Duncan, Oklahoma: Chris Lane was murdered as a part of a gang initiation, according to James Johnson, the father of a boy who was also allegedly targeted by the three youths accused of killing Mr Lane.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/chris-lane-shooting-a-gang-initiation-says-father-who-called-police-20130822-2sdud.html#ixzz2choAJ1hw

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 22, 2013, 08:57:38 AM

I thought this extract (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/19/glenn-greenwald-journalism-david-miranda-detention)from The Guardian's article of 19 August ("Is Glenn Greenwald's journalism now viewed as a 'terrorist' occupation?") was worth posting, as it encapsulates my thoughts about the issue of the nine-hour detention at Heathrow Airport of Glenn Greenwald’s partner, David Miranda:

“Greenwald himself is not known to have committed any offence, unless journalism is now a "terrorist" occupation in the eyes of British and American politicians.
As for Miranda, his only offence seems to have been to be part of his family. Harassing the family of those who have upset authority is the most obscene form of state terrorism.

Last month, the British foreign secretary, William Hague, airily excused the apparently illegal hoovering of internet traffic by British and American spies on the grounds that "the innocent have nothing to fear," the motto of police states down the ages.
Hague's apologists explained that he was a nice chap really, but that relations with America trumped every libertarian card.

The hysteria of the "war on terror" is now corrupting every area of democratic government.”#


I understand that some people might think, “Well, covert surveillance of citizens in western democracies has been going on for years.”

Although I do wonder whether they’re aware that, in America, for one, it occurred as early as the 1950s, well before computers and the internet were created.
So I suppose that, all in all, they couldn’t care less about what goes on at Heathrow Airport (or Sheremetyevo Airport, for that matter), just as long as they’re not personally affected.

Which brings me to an interesting exchange in Forster’s Maurice:

     “Mr Borenius says they want love,” said Anne after a pause.

     “I've no doubt they do, but they won't get it.”

     “Mr Hall! You're horrible.”

     "One gets used to anything...”

     “Well, good gracious me, I scold Clive for being cynical, but you outdo him.”

     “I get used to being horrible, as you call it, as the poor do to their slums. It's only a question of time.
      After you've banged about a bit you get used to your particular hole.”


# (My emphases added.)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 22, 2013, 10:17:24 AM
I understand that some people might think, “Well, covert surveillance of citizens in western democracies has been going on for years.”

Although I do wonder whether they’re aware that, in America, for one, it occurred as early as the 1950s, well before computers and the internet were created.

I clearly remember this being a very hot topic during the 1960s, especially on college campuses.

So now you can wonder no more, although I doubt that was the answer you wanted.  But I was just born here; what do I know?   ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 22, 2013, 10:21:27 AM
If you thought the Obamas just got another dog, you're not paying attention.

"Tucker Carlson's Daily Caller spilled the beans. First, they inject a meaningless statistic into a mention of Sunny's birthplace:


Quote
It’s a dog named “Sunny.” Apparently it’s a girl and it was born in 2012 in Michigan, where the unemployment rate was 8.8 percent last month. It is the Obamas’ second dog, after “Bo.”

"Did the birth of a puppy in Michigan somehow contribute to the unemployment rate, the reader wonders? Or was it just a way for Tuckie's cohorts to stick it to the President while reporting a cute puppy story. Either way, it's not really the gist of the article. No, dear readers. HERE is the gist:"

Quote
With the addition of Sunny, the Obamas now have two black Portuguese water dogs.

The Obamas do not have any white dogs.


BEEEEEEEEEEENGHAZI !

rest of the breaking scandal at  http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/terrible-obama-black-dog-conspiracy

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 22, 2013, 10:29:44 AM
“Greenwald himself is not known to have committed any offence, unless journalism is now a "terrorist" occupation in the eyes of British and American politicians.

Journalism cannot be a buzzword to do anything one wants.
If Person A steals something and Person B receives the stolen item.
Person B cannot go about claiming that he has a right to sell it because he's a journalist.

If Snowden stole KFC's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices and gave it to
Greenwald, does Greenwald have a right to publish it?

If I wanted to know the exact vote totals for the year BBM was up for Best Picture
and I somehow had access to that information, even though I signed agreements
not to disclose the information, but I did to a journalist, I would not expect to be
without consequences even though there are many people who'd like to know that
information.

As for Miranda, his only offence seems to have been to be part of his family. Harassing the family of those who have upset authority is the most obscene form of state terrorism.

Of course, then you must disagree with this article I posted earlier:

Why Does Being a Relative of Glenn Greenwald Place You Above the Law?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231711/why-does-being-a-relative-of-glenn-greenwald-place-you-above-the-law/)

When I first heard Miranda had been detained at Heathrow for nine hours under anti-terror legislation I thought it was a disgrace. I assumed, as did others, that it was an act of petty vengeance and intimidation aimed at the man who had become a very large thorn in the side of the UK and US governments through his publication of information supplied by former NSA employee Edward Snowden.

But as the Miranda story has unfolded, it’s also started to unravel. First we were told that Miranda was not merely a disinterested observer to the Snowden saga but a journalist himself, who was working with Greenwald on the story. But then it became clear Miranda was not actually a journalist at all. What’s more, he wasn’t even that clear what it was he was carrying for his partner. So Miranda arrives at Heathrow. The UK intelligence services are aware of his movements, because that’s what intelligence services do. What’s more, they know he’s potentially carrying highly classified information that, if it fell into the wrong hands, could seriously compromise UK national security.

We know that the release of this information would be damaging, for two reasons. The first is because Glenn Greenwald boasted that it would. On hearing of his partner’s detention, Greenwald said: “I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.” Whatever Miranda was carrying, it had the potential to make an entire nation sorry.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 22, 2013, 10:34:01 AM
I agree with that; this isn't one of those sad incidents you occasionally hear about where a 2-year-old kills a sibling or playmate.

Just my POV: I can remember how, as a teenager, some really hairbrained things absolutely look like good ideas at the time.  So I'd be for some creative sentencing in the case of kids filching a car and taking it for a joy ride, or holding an underaged keg party in a county park.  But deliberately killing someone goes way beyond that.  If by age 15 you don't know better than to kill someone, you'll never be anything but a curse and a menace to anyone around you. 


Some creative mental health expert will blame it on video games.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 22, 2013, 10:35:04 AM
I understand that some people might think, “Well, covert surveillance of citizens in western democracies has been going on for years.”

It goes on every week on the TV show CHEATERS.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 22, 2013, 10:38:04 AM
If you believe that there isn’t such a difference between Greenwald and the three men charged with the murder of Chris Lane, I’d be interested in hearing it.

Preferably in the form of a direct post to myself, rather than in another snide parenthetical comment in a post to someone else.



PAUL (please, no one else read this)
I believe there isn't a differenc between Greenwald and the three teens. In fact, Greenwald's actions could cause many more deaths than the kids in OK did.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 22, 2013, 10:39:56 AM
Nothing, apart from the fact that he was apparently psychologically troubled about it, which might have made him vulnerable to exploitation.

The military isn't responsible for the psychological problems they CAUSE, why would they be responsible for problems individuals bring in with them?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 22, 2013, 10:47:49 AM

“Greenwald himself is not known to have committed any offence, unless journalism is now a "terrorist" occupation in the eyes of British and American politicians.

As for Miranda, his only offence seems to have been to be part of his family. Harassing the family of those who have upset authority is the most obscene form of state terrorism.”

Journalism cannot be a buzzword to do anything one wants.
—etcetera, etcetera—

If you’re going to quote me please use my actual words—and not those of Simon Jenkins.


You know how to do that, don’t you?


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 22, 2013, 11:16:02 AM
So I suppose that, all in all, they couldn’t care less about what goes on at Heathrow Airport
(or Sheremetyevo Airport, for that matter), just as long as they’re not personally affected.

Despite the fact that my degree of caring or not won't change one thing about what is happening
to Snowden or Greenwald or Miranda, why is it that you do and what is it that you and oilgun want
us to do about it?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 22, 2013, 11:21:25 AM
If you’re going to quote me please use my actual words—and not those of Simon Jenkins.
You know how to do that, don’t you?

Bossy, aren't we?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 22, 2013, 11:28:36 AM
The military isn't responsible for the psychological problems they CAUSE, why would they be responsible for problems individuals bring in with them?

They have sentenced Bradley manning to 35 years in jail when they have some culpability themselves for putting him in that position. I would contend that he was somewhat unstable and was exploited further by Julian Aussange, who in my opinion is a waste of space.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 22, 2013, 11:35:45 AM
We're ALL exploited by someone. No one goes through life without being bullied or abused or used or tricked at some time.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 22, 2013, 11:39:12 AM
what culpability do they have?  why not put the responsibility on him?  he said he did it, and that he was sorry for hurting the country.  why must everything be excused due to his poor upbringing, or his confused sexuality, or because he didn't get a bike for Christmas when he was 8....everybody has bad things happen to them in life, he is not an exception...why doesn't anyone have to take responsibility for their actions? 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 22, 2013, 12:15:57 PM
what culpability do they have?  why not put the responsibility on him?  he said he did it, and that he was sorry for hurting the country.  why must everything be excused due to his poor upbringing, or his confused sexuality, or because he didn't get a bike for Christmas when he was 8....everybody has bad things happen to them in life, he is not an exception...why doesn't anyone have to take responsibility for their actions?  

That is a very good question.

Because somewhere along the line, it became in the interest of somebody--lawyers? shrinks? both?--to foster the notion that nobody is responsible for anything because we're all victims of someone or something, and it all went downhill from there?  :(

They have sentenced Bradley manning to 35 years in jail when they have some culpability themselves for putting him in that position. I would contend that he was somewhat unstable and was exploited further by Julian Aussange, who in my opinion is a waste of space.

He certainly seems like a supreme narcissist, anyway.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 22, 2013, 02:24:30 PM
  FWIW, those supposing non-Americans should not remark upon U.S. news.........could they at least consider waiting until the U.S. gets its troops out of everywhere else, and its nose out of everyone else's business?  Xenophobic/parochial tendencies might then be more supportable  :)......
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on August 22, 2013, 02:30:36 PM
 And, hey, how about that Antoinette Tuff?  Here comes a guy with an AK-47 into a school, and she talks him down !
It bordered on hilarious, the Southern motif:
 "Now you just put that gun over there, and lay down on the floor, before dem helicopters start comin' in."
Which, he did, after asking could he keep his cell phone.
She's on CNN tonight, at 8 P.M. EST.
  Is she available for Syria  :-\ ?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 22, 2013, 04:23:26 PM
what culpability do they have?  why not put the responsibility on him?  he said he did it, and that he was sorry for hurting the country.  why must everything be excused due to his poor upbringing, or his confused sexuality, or because he didn't get a bike for Christmas when he was 8....everybody has bad things happen to them in life, he is not an exception...why doesn't anyone have to take responsibility for their actions? 

Of course, Bradley Manning is ultimately responsible, but what I was trying to suggest was that there was mismanagement by the US Army. If there wasn't, this breach of security wouldn't have happened.
Gender confusion is not easy to live with, and causes much suffering. I should know, I have a nephew who is a female to male transsexual. He had depression, anorexia, and much mental torment before he had his treatment, since when he is much happier.
A person with such serious issues should not have had access to high security material, unless the USA really doesn't care about its secret information.
This is not to suggest that someones sexuality should be an issue, only when it causes mental ill health.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 22, 2013, 04:33:26 PM
And once again, the Army is supposed to be a mind reader? The guy hid his problems. If he was capable of that, he is capable of accepting responsibility for what he did. Which, sincere or not, is what he has done.

I think mental health experts should be forced to accept responsibility for all the misery, pain and death caused by the creatures created by their "treatments" who go forth and act out. People with contagious physical illnesses are confined, often against their will, and no one bitches about that. It is done to protect society at large, but all anyone has to do is cry mental illness and all is forgiven.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 22, 2013, 04:36:07 PM
Of course, Bradley Manning is ultimately responsible, but what I was trying to suggest was that there was mismanagement by the US Army. If there wasn't, this breach of security wouldn't have happened.
Gender confusion is not easy to live with, and causes much suffering. I should know, I have a nephew who is a female to male transsexual. He had depression, anorexia, and much mental torment before he had his treatment, since when he is much happier.
A person with such serious issues should not have had access to high security material, unless the USA really doesn't care about its secret information.
This is not to suggest that someones sexuality should be an issue, only when it causes mental ill health.

What horrible thing has your nephew done, due to his "gender confusion"?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 22, 2013, 04:47:12 PM
As I was reading the above postings a national newspaper editor on TV which I am watching desribed the Bradley Manning affair as "crass mismanagement by the US Army."
I think that is the point I was trying to make.
Blame has to go to the right places.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 22, 2013, 04:57:34 PM
Well of course that settles it. Some British "journalist" has decided. Amen.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 22, 2013, 04:58:10 PM
but you do know it sounds like you're saying don't blame the poor one who did wrong.....poor boy, hard life, it is not his fault...
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 22, 2013, 04:59:25 PM
And, hey, how about that Antoinette Tuff?  Here comes a guy with an AK-47 into a school, and she talks him down !
It bordered on hilarious, the Southern motif:
 "Now you just put that gun over there, and lay down on the floor, before dem helicopters start comin' in."
Which, he did, after asking could he keep his cell phone.
She's on CNN tonight, at 8 P.M. EST.
  Is she available for Syria  :-\ ?

Yeah, she is something, ain't she? Talk about grace under fire.
Of course, since the gunman had mental problems, he was easy to talk down and control.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 22, 2013, 05:03:19 PM
I'm sure it wasn't his fault......
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 22, 2013, 05:07:47 PM
Fine! I am sure you are right, but don't blame me if it happens again.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 22, 2013, 05:10:06 PM
and speaking of guns...APD is being sued by a man who was pulled over at 7am on a Tuesday on a fairly busy street.  He got out of the car holding his wallet, with his hands over his head, to provide ID...maybe should have stayed in the car....but the cop started screaming to get back in the car, then fired at the guy and, thankfully, missed and hit the truck.  

The guy had to be taken to the hospital, thought he was having a heart attack, was a panic attack, then they ARRESTED him for god knows what, maybe running the light...but he was let go later that day.

Now the guy is suing...imagine that...for false imprisonment and using deadly force when unwarranted, or something like that...why isn't it attempted murder?

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 22, 2013, 05:19:50 PM
Of course, Bradley Manning is ultimately responsible, but what I was trying to suggest was that there was mismanagement by the US Army. If there wasn't, this breach of security wouldn't have happened.

While I'd be the last person to exculpate Bradley/Chelsea Manning, I think you might have a point here. Doesn't the US Army do any checking of the people it gives access to the sort of information Manning had access to? One would hope so, but clearly the checking process needs to be reviewed, or perhaps the people who do the checking.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on August 22, 2013, 05:35:04 PM
One of my favorite West Wing episodes has a fighter pilot suddenly breaking formation with his group and ultimately crashing his plane into a mountain, his last radio transmission: "It wasn't the plane".   Pilots of his caliber go through intense psychological testing before being trusted with an $18m aircraft...so was it the Air Force's fault?  How did he pass the intense scrutiny?  He hid his reality, until he couldn't.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 22, 2013, 05:53:48 PM
  FWIW, those supposing non-Americans should not remark upon U.S. news.........could they at least consider waiting until the U.S. gets its troops out of everywhere else, and its nose out of everyone else's business?  Xenophobic/parochial tendencies might then be more supportable  :)......

Do we have a lot of troops in Canada, GB and Oz?  ;D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 22, 2013, 05:54:54 PM
Fine! I am sure you are right, but don't blame me if it happens again.

Thanks for this afternoon's laugh... uh, that wasn't a threat, was it?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on August 22, 2013, 06:29:58 PM
Re: Bradley Manning; If Manning was, as it was stated on our news last night, a somewhat disturbed individual who was in conflict with himself regarding his sexuality and gender, amongst other problems, don't the US Army bear some responsibility for his misdeeds by giving him such a high security clearance?

Thats what I was thinking.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 22, 2013, 10:47:04 PM
Is there no news in Canada? Ever?

Well to be fair , last year I posted about Rocco Magnota who killed and decapitated a Chinese university student in Montreal and posted a video of the crime online.  He was eventually arrested in Germany.

Someone also posted about the horrific runaway freight train disaster that killed 48 people and destroyed the downtown of a Quebec town.

Here are a few more recent Canadian News Items:

Funeral today for two New Brunswick brothers killed by African rock python

Four-year-old Noah Barthe and his six-year-old brother Connor were found dead Monday morning after a 45-kilogram African rock python escaped its enclosure in the apartment.
Police say the snake slithered through a ventilation system located above the tank and fell through the ceiling into the living room where the boys slept.
[...]

http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/08/10/funeral-today-for-two-new-brunswick-brothers-killed-by-african-rock-python/

Sinkhole swallows backhoe in downtown Montreal
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2013/08/05/montreal-sink-hole-ste-catherine.html

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/Montreal-Sinkhole-01_zps809b44b8.jpg)

Justin Trudeau admits smoking marijuana as MP
Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau tells the Huffington Post he last smoked marijuana three years ago after becoming an MP.

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/People/justin-trudeau-02_zps7919864c.jpg)

www.thestar.com/news/canada/2013/08/22/justin_trudeau_admits_smoking_marijuana_as_mp.html

Proposed 'Quebec Values' could ban all religious symbols in public buildings

The QMI article states burqas, turbans, hijabs, yarmulkes, and crosses would not be permitted in any public office, including courts, police stations, hospitals, or government offices. Staff members in public schools, including large daycares, CEGEPs and universities would fall under the same rules, while those in private schools and family-run daycares would be exempt.

Read more: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/proposed-quebec-values-could-ban-all-religious-symbols-in-public-buildings-1.1418860#ixzz2clQ1MlSq

Police chiefs suggest tickets for pot possession instead of criminal charges

Canada’s police chiefs say they want to end the practice of criminally charging every person found with small amounts of marijuana, voting to give officers the option of issuing tickets akin to the ones people receive for driving infractions or jaywalking.
[...]

 ;D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: BillyBobcat on August 23, 2013, 12:10:39 AM

Sinkhole swallows backhoe in downtown Montreal
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2013/08/05/montreal-sink-hole-ste-catherine.html


Dang!  I miss the good stuff through bad timing.  I was in Montreal a week before this happened and enjoyed a couple of coffees at the Second Cup on that corner.  A sink hole outside would have been an added perk (since we're talking coffee...).

--Bob/BillyBobcat
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 23, 2013, 01:51:55 AM
Do we have a lot of troops in Canada, GB and Oz?  ;D

Have you been to East Anglia?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 23, 2013, 06:50:52 AM
  FWIW, those supposing non-Americans should not remark upon U.S. news.........could they at least consider waiting until the U.S. gets its troops out of everywhere else, and its nose out of everyone else's business? 

No; then there would be bitching and moaning about isolationism and the fact that the Great Satan doesn't caaaaaaaaaaaare.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 23, 2013, 06:53:48 AM
Do we have a lot of troops in Canada, GB and Oz?  ;D

Never in Canada.  We've tried that twice in our history and it didn't end well.   >:D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: BillyBobcat on August 23, 2013, 10:10:03 AM
Never in Canada.  We've tried that twice in our history and it didn't end well.   >:D

The Pig War isn't usually counted among our reciprocal conflicts, perhaps because pigs can't make their case, but you might say it didn't end all that badly for either side.  The only casualty was a pig, and it led to fixing a boundary dispute:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War)

--Bob/BillyBobcat
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 23, 2013, 10:59:57 AM
The Pig War isn't usually counted among our reciprocal conflicts, perhaps because pigs can't make their case, but you might say it didn't end all that badly for either side.  The only casualty was a pig, and it led to fixing a boundary dispute:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War)

Cute.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 23, 2013, 12:36:15 PM
Never in Canada.  We've tried that twice in our history and it didn't end well.   >:D

Actually because of WW2 we had two major bases and a few smaller ones in Newfoundland, where troops remained for quite a while (until 1994) after the colony became a province, because of lend-lease.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/us_pres.html

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 23, 2013, 01:03:22 PM
Came across this article, from September 2011. Whenever it seems that violence is increasing everywhere, it's frequently useful to take a longer view.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904106704576583203589408180.html

Steve Pinker, "Violence Vanquished"

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 24, 2013, 03:49:35 AM
I believe there isn't a differenc between Greenwald and the three teens.
That you believe there’s no difference “between Greenwald and the three teens” ignores the fact that there’s a difference between a journalist doing his job and three bored men randomly killing someone.

And not only as regards actions (publication of revelations about covert NSA surveillance versus the murder of Chris Lane) but also as regards intentions/motives (journalistic integrity versus boredom/just something to do to fill in time).

Quote from: doodler
In fact, Greenwald's actions could cause many more deaths than the kids in OK did.
That Chris Lane is dead is an empirical fact, and his death was a direct result of their actions.

That Glenn Greenwald’s actions could directly “cause many more deaths” is speculative fiction.


PS The neat way in which you’ve avoided making a direct response to my Reply #199 (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=47165.msg2425757#msg2425757) is duly noted.  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 24, 2013, 03:51:15 AM
I clearly remember this being a very hot topic during the 1960s, especially on college campuses.

So now you can wonder no more, although I doubt that was the answer you wanted.  But I was just born here; what do I know?   ::)

My comment was rhetorical, but nevertheless thank you for demonstrating that your ability in the provision of constructive commentary hasn’t declined one iota.  ;D
 

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 24, 2013, 04:05:34 AM
Despite the fact that my degree of caring or not won't change one thing about what is happening
to Snowden or Greenwald or Miranda, why is it that you do and what is it that you ... want
us to do about it?
These are two interesting questions.

Some topics on this thread warrant serious discussion because they involve issues beyond those of mere personal interest, and they deserve to be treated as such.

I’m as concerned about the way that Snowden, Greenwald and Miranda have been and are currently being treated as I was about the way that President Morales was treated in July, and presenting my thoughts on this is a matter of principle.

It’s ethically repugnant to me that contemporary western democracies can treat individuals as if the world had returned to the age of the Spanish Inquisition.

What is it that I “want us to do about it?”

Do you mean apart from serious discussion about the way that your government treats it citizens, about the way it tramples on the Fourth Amendment under the guise of “national security” and about the way an American citizen risked life and limb to expose government lies and corruption and had to seek asylum in Russia for fear of retribution?

This is, after all, a discussion thread. I was unaware that taking direct personal action to counteract such contraventions of civil liberties was a pre-requisite of participation.


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 24, 2013, 04:06:56 AM
If you’re going to quote me please use my actual words—and not those of Simon Jenkins.

You know how to do that, don’t you?
Bossy, aren't we?
It’s important that posted quotes are the words of those to whom they’re accredited, and not those of someone else.

Doing otherwise creates a false impression.

I’m surprised, though, that you didn’t recognise my allusion to To Have and Have Not....

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 24, 2013, 04:08:38 AM
Journalism cannot be a buzzword to do anything one wants.
If Person A steals something and Person B receives the stolen item.
Person B cannot go about claiming that he has a right to sell it because he's a journalist.

If Snowden stole KFC's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices and gave it to
Greenwald, does Greenwald have a right to publish it?

If I wanted to know the exact vote totals for the year BBM was up for Best Picture
and I somehow had access to that information, even though I signed agreements
not to disclose the information, but I did to a journalist, I would not expect to be
without consequences even though there are many people who'd like to know that
information.
I doubt that the examples you mention would satisfy the criterion of “overriding public need” in order to warrant publication.
Unless of course, Snowden offered his culinary secrets’ scoop to some supermarket tabloid.

The same would apply, I suspect, to your divulsion of secret votes by members of AMPAS.
Both examples are hardly newsworthy, and even questionable regarding “entertainment value.”

Of course, if on the other hand you really believe that a secret herbs&spices recipe and secret votes for the Best Picture Oscar are equivalent to information about the covert surveillance of US and overseas citizens by the NSA in the interests of national security, then your argument is absolutely flawless, and I’ll bow to your impeccable logic.


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 24, 2013, 04:51:09 AM

In reference to my quote of Simon Jenkins’ statement (that Greenwald himself is not known to have committed any offence, unless journalism is now a "terrorist" occupation in the eyes of British and American politicians) you suggested that,

Of course, then you must disagree with this article I posted earlier:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100231711/why-does-being-a-relative-of-glenn-greenwald-place-you-above-the-law/

Dan Hodges not only plays fast and loose with facts but draws invalid conclusions from premises he himself presented—that David Miranda’s detention was justified because “at the time of his arrest he had been in the process of carrying potentially sensitive information to Greenwald from one of Greenwald’s contacts, the film maker Laura Poitras.”

Leaving aside the issue that Miranda was not a “relative” of Greenwald, but his partner, Hodges states that:

“The UK intelligence services are aware of [Miranda’s] movements, because that’s what intelligence services do.
What’s more, they know he’s potentially carrying highly classified information that, if it fell into the wrong hands, could seriously compromise UK national security.”


[i.e. Intelligence services already know that Miranda is “potentially carrying highly classified information” which could “seriously compromise UK national security.”]

This is followed by Hodges saying that “We know that the release of this information would be damaging, for two reasons.”

(Never mind that at this stage there’s no evidence to support Hodges’ claim that Miranda was carrying “highly classified information,” let alone that “we”—however they are—"know" it.)

But let’s look at his “two reasons” for this so-called “knowledge:”

a) that Glenn Greenwald had boasted that the information carried by Miranda “would be damaging;” and

b) that “two ‘GCHQ security experts’ had been invited into the Guardian basement to watch as hard drives containing the Snowden files were voluntarily smashed to pieces.”

To support his first reason Hodges writes:

On hearing of his partner’s detention, Greenwald said: “I am going to publish many more documents. I am going to publish things on England too. I have many documents on England's spy system. I think they will be sorry for what they did.”
Whatever Miranda was carrying
(writes Hodges), it had the potential to make an entire nation ... sorry.”

Greenwald’s actual “boast” is directly quoted in a separate Telegraph article by others (reached via a link conveniently provided by Hodges himself).
So there’s no excuse for Hodges' false conclusion that the documents referred to by Greenwald were those (if any) carried by Miranda.
Even a cursory reading of Greenwald’s words would indicate that Greenwald was referring to documents already in his possession.

Let’s look now at Hodges’ second (and similarly flawed) reason for his claim that Miranda was in possession of information which was dangerous to UK national security if it “fell into the wrong hands.”

Hodges thoughtfully provides a link to a report (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-schedule7-danger-reporters) in The Guardian, written by its editor, Alan Rusbridger, who describes how, during meetings with “shadowy Whitehall figures” over a period of some months he was instructed to either “hand over the Snowden material or destroy it” or that governmental-approved court action would be taken for its surrender.
Agents from GCHQ (Government Communications Headquarters, “a crucial part of the UK’s National Intelligence and Security machinery”) subsequently oversaw the destruction of The Guardian’s hard drives to ensure that “there was nothing in the mangled bits of metal which could possibly be of any interest to passing Chinese agents.”

Here we have demonstrable proof of Hodges’ bias inability to draw valid conclusions from information he himself has presented.
The information about which GCHQ was so concerned already existed within The Guardian’s hard drives, not carried by David Miranda during his flight from Berlin to Rio de Janeiro via Heathrow.

And Hodges’ conclusion?
“It’s clear David Miranda wasn’t stopped because he was Glenn Greenwald’s partner. He was stopped because he was suspected of carrying classified information highly detrimental to the UK national interest."

So, yes, Lyle—I “disagree” with the article you posted; and there seemed little point in reading further simply to discover further errors.



Rusbridger’s report, for those who wish to understand the lengths to which governments will go in order to stifle the freedom of the press, is worth reading in its entirety.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 24, 2013, 04:55:21 AM
As I was reading the above postings a national newspaper editor on TV which I am watching desribed the Bradley Manning affair as "crass mismanagement by the US Army."
I think that is the point I was trying to make.
Blame has to go to the right places.

Well of course that settles it. Some British "journalist" has decided. Amen.

Would you have used quotation marks, Sherry, had the journalist been American?

Better yet, why did you feel the need to mention the journalist's nationality at all?

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 24, 2013, 07:14:51 AM
My comment was rhetorical, but nevertheless thank you for demonstrating that your ability in the provision of constructive commentary hasn’t declined one iota.  ;D
 



Yes, I am amazing (which can cover a lot of territory).
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 24, 2013, 07:19:49 AM
Yes, I am amazing (which can cover a lot of territory).

I couldn't agree with you more, Marge, and that's saying something.  ;D

What's your secret?  :D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 24, 2013, 11:03:59 AM
I couldn't agree with you more, Marge, and that's saying something.  ;D

What's your secret?  :D

But if she tells us, then it won't be a secret anymore.  ;D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 24, 2013, 11:28:37 AM
It’s important that posted quotes are the words of those to whom they’re accredited,
and not those of someone else. Doing otherwise creates a false impression.

We've had this discussion before. Unless a poster prefaces it with something different, I assume
people who are quoting the opinions of others in their posts agree with what those people are saying,
otherwise why are you posting them in the first place?  And since I assume you are agreeing with the
sentiments, I see no reason not to quote them as your own if I so desire. Seriously, the very fact you're
quoting people means nothing in particular to you?

I doubt that the examples you mention would satisfy the criterion
of “overriding public need” in order to warrant publication.

Oh, so there's certain criteria for journalists and whistleblower's to consider?
My examples were unworthy of this criteria and deserve dismissal, even though
the ethical principles are the same.  I see.  It has to be "worth it" in some way.
But then there's the rub.  Who decides if it's worth it or not?  You?  A company?
A Government?  A journalist? Who decides overriding public need? Snowden?
Greenwald? Mayor Bloomberg?

Both examples are hardly newsworthy, and even questionable regarding “entertainment value.”

While I agree that the Manning and Snowden sagas are very entertaining, very little of the press
coverage the average person is seeing or hearing about is related to what YOU consider newsworthy
about it.  It's about the fact they stole Government secrets they were entrusted with and swore oaths
not to reveal.

Of course, if on the other hand you really believe that a secret herbs&spices recipe and secret votes
for the Best Picture Oscar are equivalent to information about the covert surveillance of US and overseas
citizens by the NSA in the interests of national security, then your argument is absolutely flawless, and I’ll
bow to your impeccable logic.

I did not realize there were equivalency tests related to ethical behavior.

Rusbridger’s report, for those who wish to understand the lengths to which governments
will go in order to stifle the freedom of the press, is worth reading in its entirety.

Does freedom of the press to you mean freedom to do anything the press wants to do, including
publishing stolen Government secrets? Then cry foul when the Government steps in their way?

It’s ethically repugnant to me that contemporary western democracies can treat individuals as if the world had returned to the age of the Spanish Inquisition.

But you have an equivalency test depending on what it's about. One person's "ethically repugnant" seems
to depend on certain criteria.  It seems you have no problem with ethically repugnant whistleblowers if the
criteria suits your needs.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 24, 2013, 11:39:59 AM
Actually because of WW2 we had two major bases and a few smaller ones in Newfoundland, where troops remained for quite a while (until 1994) after the colony became a province, because of lend-lease.

American troops also built The Alaska Highway (also known as the Alaskan Highway, Alaska-Canadian Highway, or ALCAN Highway) that was constructed during World War II. It begins at the junction with several Canadian highways in Dawson Creek, British Columbia, and runs to Delta Junction, Alaska, via Whitehorse, Yukon. Completed in 1942 at a length of approximately 1,700 miles. The highway was opened to the public in 1948.

On February 6, 1942 the construction of the Alaska Highway was approved by the United States Army and the project received the authorization from the U.S. Congress and President Franklin D. Roosevelt to proceed five days later. Canada agreed to allow construction as long as the United States bore the full cost, and that the road and other facilities in Canada be turned over to Canadian authority after the war ended.

There's a PBS Program about it, too:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/alaska/
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 24, 2013, 11:47:06 AM
Do you mean apart from serious discussion about the way that your government treats it citizens, about the way it tramples on the Fourth Amendment under the guise of “national security” and about the way an American citizen risked life and limb to expose government lies and corruption and had to seek asylum in Russia for fear of retribution?

This is, after all, a discussion thread. I was unaware that taking direct personal action to counteract such contraventions of civil liberties was a pre-requisite of participation.

   ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 24, 2013, 02:13:14 PM
What's that old saying about being part of the solution or the problem?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 24, 2013, 02:37:44 PM
Would you have used quotation marks, Sherry, had the journalist been American?

Better yet, why did you feel the need to mention the journalist's nationality at all?



I don't think that Doodler realises that what happens in the US security services affects us here. Our troops, our security operatives all work hand in glove with those in the USA.  GCHQ here works with the US authorities all of the time. These failures to check who is given security clearance can, and sometimes do, lead to loss of British lives.
We also have huge US airbases here in the UK.
Lakenheath in Suffolk is probably the most well known, and we have had forum members over the years who have been stationed there.
I, and other British people are involved in this, and we have every right to express an opinion, and for our news and media organisations to keep us informed.
I didn't realise that only the American members of this multinational forum were allowed an opinion. 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 24, 2013, 04:06:57 PM
I don't think that Doodler realises that what happens in the US security services affects us here. Our troops, our security operatives all work hand in glove with those in the USA.  GCHQ here works with the US authorities all of the time. These failures to check who is given security clearance can, and sometimes do, lead to loss of British lives.
We also have huge US airbases here in the UK.
Lakenheath in Suffolk is probably the most well known, and we have had forum members over the years who have been stationed there.
I, and other British people are involved in this, and we have every right to express an opinion, and for our news and media organisations to keep us informed.
I didn't realise that only the American members of this multinational forum were allowed an opinion. 

Seems to me what you are describing is an internal problem. Perhaps instead of trying to talk Americans into your way of thinking and doing your bidding, you should try addressing the issue where your opinion might have some influence. MY suggestion, for what it's worth... start by throwing the Colonials out of your baliwick. Of course, that might affect your economic situation....
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 24, 2013, 05:06:31 PM
The illogicallity of this reply leaves me speechless. Is this one world or not?  What country can completely go it's own way without interconnections?
If what you are suggesting is that we have no more to do with the USA and throw all your nationals out, then I am afraid I can't see how that would be at all useful. I doubt however that it would do much harm to our economy, most of our trade is with the EU.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on August 24, 2013, 10:02:40 PM
Did anyone see this in their local news?  It was REALLY local for me: Lake Butler is in the next county, only 25 miles away from the town where I live.


3 dead, 2 wounded in Fla. truck company shootings


Aug 24, 9:45 PM (ET)


LAKE BUTLER, Fla. (AP) - A longtime employee of a Florida trucking company drove around Saturday shooting former co-workers and his onetime boss, killing two and wounding two, authorities said. The gunman then killed himself.

Hubert Allen Jr., 72, shot the men at several locations around Union County, including the headquarters for Pritchett Trucking Inc., according to a Union County Sheriff's Office news release.

Authorities said Allen shot and killed former co-worker Rolando Gonzalez-Delgado, 28, around 9 a.m. then went a short distance and fatally shot his former employer, 80-year-old Marvin Pritchett.

A few minutes later, he pulled over where another former co-worker was driving a farm tractor, exchanged words with him and then fired one shot from a shotgun, authorities said. That victim, 66-year-old Lewis Mabrey Jr., was in good condition and receiving surgery for a broken arm and other injuries.

Not long after that, Allen went to the company's headquarters in Lake Butler and shot 44-year-old David Griffis in the stomach, the release said. Griffis was in critical condition.

Authorities say Allen then returned to his home nearby and killed himself. Authorities said he was a longtime employee of the company.

With a population of about 2,000, Lake Butler is located about an hour's drive southwest of Jacksonville.

Investigators were working at the five shooting scenes late Saturday and interviewing witnesses and company employees. The news release said they were working to determine a motive.

Messages seeking further comment from the sheriff's office weren't immediately returned.

The trucking company's website says it employs 400 people and owns hundreds of vehicles that operate around the country. It said Pritchett started the trucking company in 1980, ten years after purchasing a Florida timber business.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with all of their families, and at this time our sole focus is on those impacted by today's events. Words cannot express the pain and sorrow felt by so many yet we are comforted by the memories of those lost," the company said in a statement.

The company's chief financial officer, Steve Perez, didn't immediately respond to an email seeking further comment.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on August 24, 2013, 11:30:07 PM
Seems to me what you are describing is an internal problem. Perhaps instead of trying to talk Americans into your way of thinking and doing your bidding, you should try addressing the issue where your opinion might have some influence. MY suggestion, for what it's worth... start by throwing the Colonials out of your baliwick. Of course, that might affect your economic situation....

What an unpleasant tone. Whatever happened to open-minded discussion?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 25, 2013, 05:53:47 AM
Did anyone see this in their local news?  It was REALLY local for me: Lake Butler is in the next county, only 25 miles away from the town where I live.


3 dead, 2 wounded in Fla. truck company shootings


Aug 24, 9:45 PM (ET)


LAKE BUTLER, Fla. (AP) - A longtime employee of a Florida trucking company drove around Saturday shooting former co-workers and his onetime boss, killing two and wounding two, authorities said. The gunman then killed himself.

Hubert Allen Jr., 72, shot the men at several locations around Union County, including the headquarters for Pritchett Trucking Inc., according to a Union County Sheriff's Office news release.

Authorities said Allen shot and killed former co-worker Rolando Gonzalez-Delgado, 28, around 9 a.m. then went a short distance and fatally shot his former employer, 80-year-old Marvin Pritchett.

A few minutes later, he pulled over where another former co-worker was driving a farm tractor, exchanged words with him and then fired one shot from a shotgun, authorities said. That victim, 66-year-old Lewis Mabrey Jr., was in good condition and receiving surgery for a broken arm and other injuries.

Not long after that, Allen went to the company's headquarters in Lake Butler and shot 44-year-old David Griffis in the stomach, the release said. Griffis was in critical condition.

Authorities say Allen then returned to his home nearby and killed himself. Authorities said he was a longtime employee of the company.

With a population of about 2,000, Lake Butler is located about an hour's drive southwest of Jacksonville.

Investigators were working at the five shooting scenes late Saturday and interviewing witnesses and company employees. The news release said they were working to determine a motive.

Messages seeking further comment from the sheriff's office weren't immediately returned.

The trucking company's website says it employs 400 people and owns hundreds of vehicles that operate around the country. It said Pritchett started the trucking company in 1980, ten years after purchasing a Florida timber business.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with all of their families, and at this time our sole focus is on those impacted by today's events. Words cannot express the pain and sorrow felt by so many yet we are comforted by the memories of those lost," the company said in a statement.

The company's chief financial officer, Steve Perez, didn't immediately respond to an email seeking further comment.



Yikes, Mark!

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 25, 2013, 10:44:55 AM
Seems it's all open minded as long as we're talking about what is wrong with the US. Change the subject and it becomes unpleasant.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 25, 2013, 12:14:30 PM
Oh! I don't think so. I love the USA and in the UK we are always only too glad to complain abuot our governments. It is part of the British character.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 25, 2013, 01:50:24 PM
THINK about what you just said.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 25, 2013, 02:42:02 PM
But if she tells us, then it won't be a secret anymore.  ;D

(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/talkstocoyotes/dogandBushbeans_zpsa06ca0f5.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 25, 2013, 02:45:41 PM

Do you mean apart from serious discussion about the way that your government treats it citizens, about the way it tramples on the Fourth Amendment under the guise of “national security” and about the way an American citizen risked life and limb to expose government lies and corruption and had to seek asylum in Russia for fear of retribution?

Oh, by all means, let's have a serious discussion about the way a government treats its citizens.  There's been a lot of discussion about that lately that will intensify next year.   ::)

Not that it's going to happen in this venue, uv cawss.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 25, 2013, 02:47:46 PM
THINK about what you just said.


Why?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 25, 2013, 03:40:49 PM
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/talkstocoyotes/dogandBushbeans_zpsa06ca0f5.jpg)

Batteries not included. ...
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on August 25, 2013, 06:41:08 PM
Well it looks like it's that time again.

Discussions had been fine, but the thoughts are veering off into the "personal attacks" tone again, so it looks like a time out is needed again. (I am not referring to the Bush's beans comments, but numerous previous ones.)

You all know that the topics are interesting, and everyone has their own thoughts about them. Some garner more emotions than others, but that does not give license to belittle fellow posters. They are just as passionate about their beliefs as you are. I have told everyone in the past, to respect one another, answer someone back as you would like to be answered.

All these accusations that someone is attacking you, your beliefs, your country, your government, your citizens, or any other topic has got to stop. Each and everyone of us is going to have a different opinion about everything. This is not just limited to people being from a different country, but divisions happen in the same country about the exact same things we discuss here daily. EVERYONE is entitled to their OWN opinion, and NO ONE has the right to put them down for those beliefs.

Quit picking fights.
Quit thinking someone is wrong if they don't believe in what you are stating.
Quit thinking the longer you argue about something the more right you are.
Quit thinking that the longer your posts are, or the most links you post, will convince people who disagree, to suddenly agree.

Do respect everyone here.
Do realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you are in agreement or not.
Do realize no one is all right or all wrong.
Do respect everyone here.

Each and every person on this forum is an individual. Each one has a different background, different life's experiences, different genders, different everything. Think about this when you are posting. If you do not agree with someone, make it simple and say you don't agree and here is why. Leave it at that. More words, more arguments are not going to convince anyone of anything.

Think about all of this in the next couple of days. Try to come back and when you post about some current issue, remember all of this.
It does no one any good when good honest and interesting discussions of topics degenerates into name calling and accusations. Be adults in your thinking and once again, RESPECT.

To each and every one, if all of this is not possible, then don't post here.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on August 28, 2013, 12:06:18 AM
Just remember when you are posting here that you are just writing words. No one can hear the inflections of your words, see your facial expressions, or the tone of your voice. What you post here are your thoughts in words, and it isn't like you are sitting across from someone at a coffee shop.

I say this because none of us can interpret, just by the words written here, how someone is presenting their thoughts and opinions because we are not hearing or seeing them, we are just reading words on a screen. We cannot assume or interpret that they are being judgmental, angry, sarcastic, or any of the emotions we see and hear when we are sitting across from someone.

Remember this when you are posting here.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 28, 2013, 06:46:08 PM
So, about the Syria thing...

I'm not convinced that there is irrefutable proof that Assad was responsible for the chemical attack.  Bush Obama's explanation was not very convincing. I'm glad to see that a majority of Americans are not convinced either.  I guess when you are lied to time after time by the government & media, after a while you stop believing them.  A lot of Syrians also have doubts about Assad being responsible considering that the attack happened in an area that the government controlled with, I understand, people who are mostly pro-Assad.  He would have nothing to gain by gassing supporters.  I think there is more evidence that the NATO & US backed rebels were responsible. The false flag attack provides the perfect reason for the West to invade/attack the country which would force Iran to get involved which would then give the US a reason to attack/invade THAT country as well. Oh and the chemical weapons were probably supplied by the U.S. via Qatar. I mean the U.S supplied Iraq with chemical weapons during the Iraq/Iran war.  I also saw a video where a four star general claims that months afters 9/11 the U.S had a plan to invade not only Iraq, but other middle eastern countries, including Syria & Iran,  (I'll try to find the link). It's a sad state of affairs. My two cents. 

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/Syria-02_zps54a81bb5.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 28, 2013, 06:58:20 PM
So, about the Syria thing...
Oh and the chemical weapons were probably supplied by the U.S.

Another one of your sleazy slanders.

But, oh, how clever you are! You can't prove it, and by throwing in that "probably" you don't have to.

 ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 28, 2013, 08:12:17 PM
So, about the Syria thing...

No coffee shop need, no equivocation...
the US should stay out of Syria. Period.
It doesn't matter to me which side gassed those people. It is an internal problem and ABSOLUTELY none of our business.
Barring a direct attack by Syria on US soil, we should not get involved.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 28, 2013, 08:33:21 PM
Another one of your sleazy slanders.

But, oh, how clever you are! You can't prove it, and by throwing in that "probably" you don't have to.

 ::)

The west can't prove Assad was responsible, so shouldn't accusing him be considered slander as well?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 28, 2013, 09:30:30 PM
The west can't prove Assad was responsible, so shouldn't accusing him be considered slander as well?

I don't give a rat's ass what anyone says about Assad.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 28, 2013, 09:39:35 PM
I have yet to speak with anyone who does care about Assad. Or Syria. Or any possible lies our government is telling us.
If those 12 Arab nations are so concerned about what's going on in their neighborhood, they should handle it.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 29, 2013, 05:11:59 AM
The MP's here have all been recalled from their summer holidays for a debate in the House of Commons this afternoon, 2.30 to decide what to do about Syria. There doesn't seem to be much support for a military strike, and Mr Cameron looked worried!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 29, 2013, 06:23:18 AM
Lyle, I’ve been trying to sort out the threads of our recent discussion, and I’d now like to look at some of the issues you mentioned and along the way, clarify a few points of mine which might have been less than clear.

The issue I initially raised related to Jenkins’ comments about David Miranda’s detention at Heathrow, which he described as “the sort of treatment western politicians love to deplore in Putin’s Russia or Ahmadinejad's Iran.”

The thrust of his article was that even though Greenwald is not known to have commited any offence in reporting Snowden’s NSA material for The Guardian, Miranda’s offence, under the UK 2000 Terrorism Act, was that he was Greenwald’s partner and so Jenkins asked whether journalism was now to be seen “as a terrorist occupation.”

We moved from this to the issue of “newsworthiness” and I’d like to now revisit some of your posts and make some further comments.

Journalism cannot be a buzzword to do anything one wants.
If Person A steals something and Person B receives the stolen item.
Person B cannot go about claiming that he has a right to sell it because he's a journalist.

If Snowden stole KFC's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices and gave it to
Greenwald, does Greenwald have a right to publish it?

If I wanted to know the exact vote totals for the year BBM was up for Best Picture
and I somehow had access to that information, even though I signed agreements
not to disclose the information, but I did to a journalist, I would not expect to be
without consequences even though there are many people who'd like to know that
information.

I think there are some issues here which I could have addressed before I responded to your points about KFC’s culinary recipes and AMPAS votes.

  First, the idea that being a journalist entitles someone to “do anything they want” surely depends upon whether or not what they did conformed to what’s described as “news” otherwise, I feel, there’d be little point in being a journalist.

In the 1960s the Norwegian media researchers Johan Galtung and Mari Ruge analysed international news stories to find out what factors they had in common, and what factors placed them at the top of the news agenda worldwide.
They came up with a seminal list of twelve criteria or factors which defined “newsworthiness,” all of which had to be present to “heighten the probability that a given event would become news.
Three of these were the criteria of “Threshhold” (which an event had to reach before it became news), “Intensity/Absolute Intensity” (e.g. the more violent the murder, the bigger the headlines) and “Uniqueness” (e.g. any story which covers a unique or unusual event).

More recent scholarship (McGregor, J., Restating News Values, UNZ, 2002) suggests that three new criteria be incorporated:

   - Visualness (e.g. A bias towards a good picture on TV as opposed to a worthy story, the hypothesis being that an earthquake killing 1000 people in remote Siberia will be not covered as well as an earthquake killing ten people in London, unless by some chance the Siberian disaster was captured in film or a survivor had access to a television studio);

   - Emotion (e.g. Some forms of news, particularly television magazine news, have mutated into a passing parade of “tear jerker” stories that are variations on the theme of grief); and,

   - Conflict, for without a conflict format the event cannot be news (e.g. Political and controversial events are driven by a conflict format in which there is little ambiguity in the opposing positions being represented; if ambiguity arises the otherwise potential story will become too complex to be news).


   Next, you said that “Person B cannot go about claiming that he has a right to sell [stolen information] because he's a journalist.

Well, I disagree with you there, Lyle. It’s precisely because Person B is a journalist that he can publicise that information—if it satisfies the definition of “news.”

(Although I admit I’m a little confused by your reference to Person B “selling” the information; is that what you think Glenn Greenwald did?)


   I’d now like to take a fresh look at your two scenarios.

The first one is unusual because although it supposes a situation in which someone stole something and then gave it to someone else to publish, the two people you named
not only exist but actually did these things in real life (except that the information involved wasn't that of your scenario), so the question’s answer is obvious:
“Yes, as a journalist he (Greenwald) did have the right to publish it (but only if he thought it was newsworthy, which he did).”

The second one, though, is more effective because it involves (presumably) an actual hypothetical situation, one in which the consequences of certain actions for the persons involved (the breaking of a confidentiality agreement, the theft of AMPAS voting secrets and the publication of those secrets) are to be considered. The answer in this case would also be “Yes, they could expect consequences.”


All of that said, I’m unsure how your points related to the treatment David Miranda received because he was Glenn Greenwald’s partner.

Sorry, mate.  :)



Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: malachite45 on August 29, 2013, 06:23:55 AM
I bet nobody's even considered that this is the perfect scenario to lure the US and its allies into yet another unwinnable conflict on Arab soil. What better way to further weaken your enemies and draw more support from radicalized supporters than this. Splitting the U.N's a bonus.  I should think Al Qaeda must be delighted they all fell for it.
Nobody with any sense would get dragged into this in a million years. It absolutely stinks.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 29, 2013, 06:26:50 AM
 
When I said that "I doubt that the examples you mention would satisfy the criterion of “overriding public need” in order to warrant publication," you replied:
Oh, so there's certain criteria for journalists and whistleblower's to consider?

My examples were unworthy of this criteria and deserve dismissal, even though
the ethical principles are the same.  I see.  It has to be "worth it" in some way.

Firstly, Lyle, you didn’t actually ask me about whistleblowers—only journalists—and I answered accordingly.

My comment was in reference to the intrinsic value of your revealed “secrets” and not to the way in which they had been obtained.

In my mind there’s no comparison between your scenarios’ secrets and those to do with covert NSA/governmental surveillance of US and overseas citizens.
The ethical principles involved in the acquistion and publication of culinary recipes and AMPAS votes might indeed be the same as those underlying the acquisition and publication of NSA material, but all information is not equally ”newsworthy.”

But yes, in the end it has to be “worth it.”

Incidentally I didn’t “dismiss” your examples as being “unworthy” ... as I said, some supermarket tabloid would probably snap them up.

Quote from: Lyle (Mooska)
But then there's the rub.  Who decides if it's worth it or not?  You?  A company?
A Government?  A journalist? Who decides overriding public need? Snowden?
Greenwald? Mayor Bloomberg?

It’s a chain, Lyle, one in which someone presents something he/she considers to be worthy of being news, then the person who’s approached makes the decision that it’s important enough to be made public.
Decisions about the “worth” of any information which was presented would be up to the the editorial staff of the publications which were approached.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 29, 2013, 06:29:35 AM
Both examples are hardly newsworthy, and even questionable regarding “entertainment value.”

While I agree that the Manning and Snowden sagas are very entertaining, very little of the press
coverage the average person is seeing or hearing about is related to what YOU consider newsworthy
about it.  It's about the fact they stole Government secrets they were entrusted with and swore oaths
not to reveal.

I’m unable to comment on what “the average person is seeing or hearing,” Lyle.

What he/she decides to be of importance in “press coverage” is up to them, certainly not myself—what I believe to be “newsworthy” is a personal matter.

“Newsworthiness” is a fascinatingly complex issue, far more so than ethical journalistic behaviour.

(The Society of Professional Journalists’ website, for instance, outlines a detailed Code of Ethics—simply as a set of voluntary guidelines—for what it considers to be the principles of journalistic ethics).


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 29, 2013, 06:48:30 AM
We've had this discussion before. Unless a poster prefaces it with something different, I assume
people who are quoting the opinions of others in their posts agree with what those people are saying,
otherwise why are you posting them in the first place? 
And since I assume you are agreeing with the
sentiments, I see no reason not to quote them as your own if I so desire.

Seriously, the very fact you're
quoting people means nothing in particular to you?

That’s not so, Lyle. I quoted from Simon Jenkins’ article because (as I said) it “encapsulated my thoughts
about the issue of the nine-hour detention at Heathrow Airport of Glenn Greenwald’s partner, David Miranda.”

While you’re free to quote Jenkins’ words as my own I wanted to make it clear to others that they weren’t.
It’s called correct accreditation ... a moot point, perhaps.  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on August 29, 2013, 06:55:19 AM
No coffee shop need, no equivocation...
the US should stay out of Syria. Period.
It doesn't matter to me which side gassed those people. It is an internal problem and ABSOLUTELY none of our business.
Barring a direct attack by Syria on US soil, we should not get involved.

I agree, Sherry. (Yes, really ;))
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on August 29, 2013, 06:58:42 AM
I have yet to speak with anyone who does care about Assad. Or Syria. Or any possible lies our government is telling us.
If those 12 Arab nations are so concerned about what's going on in their neighborhood, they should handle it.


I do care very much about people being gassed in Syria. But I don't think outside intervention often achieves what it ostensibly sets out to do.

But then.... "What about Hitler and the Nazis?"  I just don't know.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 29, 2013, 10:02:39 AM
Hitler's biggest offense was not the extermination of Jews... the world would have just tsk tsked over that. But Hitler wanted to rule the world and made his intentions clear.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on August 29, 2013, 10:18:36 AM
I suspect that the world always feels that someone should intervene whenever genocide happens, but what can effectively be done?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 29, 2013, 10:22:40 AM
Hitler's biggest offense was not the extermination of Jews... the world would have just tsk tsked over that. But Hitler wanted to rule the world and made his intentions clear.

You (indefinite "you") could make a case for the nation-state of Israel never having gotten off the ground if it weren't for the Shoah.  That's certainly a dilemma for the favorite dodge of neo-Nazis.

Otherwise, it's back to business as usual at Hot Topics.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 29, 2013, 11:18:33 AM
I suspect that the world always feels that someone should intervene whenever genocide happens, but what can effectively be done?

Where is that interest when it comes to Africa?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Lyle (Mooska) on August 29, 2013, 11:49:15 AM

 I have a dream.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 29, 2013, 11:50:29 AM
Where is that interest when it comes to Africa?

I think quite possibly it's because no one intervened in Rwanda that everyone now is a little hypersensitive about intervening in alleged cases of genocide.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on August 29, 2013, 01:52:55 PM
IRS ruling on same sex marriage tax returns.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/08/29/irs-to-treat-same-sex-marriages-equally-for-tax-purposes/?wpisrc=al_comboPN_p (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/08/29/irs-to-treat-same-sex-marriages-equally-for-tax-purposes/?wpisrc=al_comboPN_p)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on August 29, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Thanks, Gary.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on August 29, 2013, 02:15:40 PM
Here is an article on the NSA/Snowden topic. It is long but worth the read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/black-budget-summary-details-us-spy-networks-successes-failures-and-objectives/2013/08/29/7e57bb78-10ab-11e3-8cdd-bcdc09410972_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/black-budget-summary-details-us-spy-networks-successes-failures-and-objectives/2013/08/29/7e57bb78-10ab-11e3-8cdd-bcdc09410972_story.html)

And  her is a related article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/to-hunt-osama-bin-laden-satellites-watched-over-abbottabad-pakistan-and-navy-seals/2013/08/29/8d32c1d6-10d5-11e3-b4cb-fd7ce041d814_story.html?wpisrc=al_excl (http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/to-hunt-osama-bin-laden-satellites-watched-over-abbottabad-pakistan-and-navy-seals/2013/08/29/8d32c1d6-10d5-11e3-b4cb-fd7ce041d814_story.html?wpisrc=al_excl)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on August 29, 2013, 02:40:32 PM
IRS ruling on same sex marriage tax returns.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/08/29/irs-to-treat-same-sex-marriages-equally-for-tax-purposes/?wpisrc=al_comboPN_p (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/08/29/irs-to-treat-same-sex-marriages-equally-for-tax-purposes/?wpisrc=al_comboPN_p)

Earl just told me about that. Yay!!!!

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 29, 2013, 05:52:54 PM
I think quite possibly it's because no one intervened in Rwanda that everyone now is a little hypersensitive about intervening in alleged cases of genocide.

I don't understand what you are saying... no one stepped in so now no one wants to step in?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 29, 2013, 05:54:19 PM
Another big Snowy reveal... the CIA and other so called intelligence agencies have big budgets.
Wow, imagine that. Whoda thunk?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 29, 2013, 05:55:03 PM
Yea, good on ya, Brits!
(Yeah, I said it.)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 29, 2013, 08:04:42 PM
I don't understand what you are saying... no one stepped in so now no one wants to step in?

No, I'm saying that because no one stepped in there, now everyone--everyone being heads of governments, of course, not people in coffee shops--dithers about whether they should step in other places.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 29, 2013, 08:10:00 PM
Thanks, Jeff.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 29, 2013, 08:14:09 PM
Thanks, Jeff.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 29, 2013, 08:16:58 PM
I'm certainly no fan of Assad but the other side doesn't seem much better. They shot a 12 or 14 year old boy in the head in front of his family because he “blasphemed””.  They are violent islamists and I find rather ironic that the west supports them.  We’ve been lied to about the reasons for invading Iraq so it’s understandable that some of us question the reasons for attacking Syria.

Sorry if I upset you yet again, i keep forgeting how nationalistic United-Statesians can be.

Violent islamics, violent mennonites, violent buddists, violent agnostis. Six of one half a dozen of another. Mankind is by nature violent. You pick your pony and saddle up.

The point should be no one but Syrians have a pony in this race and they should deal with it by themselves.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 29, 2013, 08:59:23 PM

Syrian rebels used Sarin nerve gas, not Assad’s regime: U.N. official
Testimony from victims strongly suggests it was the rebels, not the Syrian government, that used Sarin nerve gas during a recent incident in the revolution-wracked nation, a senior U.N. diplomat said Monday.
Carla del Ponte, a member of the U.N. Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss TV there were “strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof,” that rebels seeking to oust Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad had used the nerve agent.
[...]


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-not-assads-regi/#ixzz2dPwEPOOj
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on August 29, 2013, 09:55:43 PM
Syrian rebels used Sarin nerve gas, not Assad’s regime: U.N. official
Testimony from victims strongly suggests it was the rebels, not the Syrian government, that used Sarin nerve gas during a recent incident in the revolution-wracked nation, a senior U.N. diplomat said Monday.
Carla del Ponte, a member of the U.N. Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria, told Swiss TV there were “strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof,” that rebels seeking to oust Syrian strongman Bashar al-Assad had used the nerve agent.
[...]


Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/6/syrian-rebels-used-sarin-nerve-gas-not-assads-regi/#ixzz2dPwEPOOj
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

nice try.
The alleged attack in current discussion occurred on August 21.  This article is dated May, 2013 and concerns a different alleged attack. 
Obfuscation, no matter what the source, does not assist in arriving at the truth...whatever that truth may be.
Oh, and "The Washington Times"...Sun Myung Moon... self proclaimed messiah. 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on August 29, 2013, 09:57:40 PM
nice try.
The alleged attack in current discussion occurred on August 21.  This article is dated May, 2013 and concerns a different alleged attack.  
Obfuscation, no matter what the source, does not assist in arriving at the truth...whatever that truth may be.
Oh, and "The Washington Times"...Sun Myung Moon... self proclaimed messiah.  

You got me, I didn't read past the headline, lol!  

But then again, it just shows what the 'rebels' are capable of.  Especially when they get support from countries like the USA.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on August 30, 2013, 01:23:59 AM
Yea, good on ya, Brits!
(Yeah, I said it.)

And I read it.

Thank God common sense prevailed for once. (Parliament's, not yours of course)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on August 30, 2013, 03:16:32 AM
If my posts piss you off so much then just put me on ignore.

Just for the record, DCF does not have an ignore feature like BetterMost does.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 30, 2013, 05:23:06 AM
Just for the record, DCF does not have an ignore feature like BetterMost does.
Or like IMDb has, either—and considering the vitriol its Message Boards contains I'm not surprised.

Although both IMDb and DCF are moderated I suspect the former uses the term "rather loosely," to put it mildly.
(Members here generally seem to be more civilised in their exchanges.)

But DCF does have Ignore for PMs, Chuck.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on August 30, 2013, 06:02:38 AM

Oh, and "The Washington Times"...Sun Myung Moon... self proclaimed messiah. 

ROFL, I missed the Moonie Paper thing.  Thanks.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on August 30, 2013, 06:13:13 AM

A little while ago, Lyle, you asked me why I cared (about “what is happening to Snowden or Greenwald or Miranda) and what it was that I wanted “us” to do about it.

Although you actually addressed your post to me you asked both myself and oilgun these questions, and I was a little unsure why you considered us to be a couple, and
whether you wanted me to consult with him in order to ensure that our joint answer was mutually acceptable.
In the end, though, I decided against it as I suspected he could answer for himself if he so desired...

And while I admit I was a little non-plussed about the use of “us” (perhaps it was intended in the sense of a Royal plural, or that it referred to all of humanity, or to American citizens, whose government was, after all, responsible—either directly or indirectly—for what happened to Snowden, Greenwald and Miranda) I deduced that you were really only referring to participants in the News and Current Events thread.

Anyway, I answered as follows:

Quote
Some topics on this thread warrant serious discussion because they involve issues beyond those of mere personal interest, and they deserve to be treated as such.

I’m as concerned about the way that Snowden, Greenwald and Miranda have been and are currently being treated as I was about the way that President Morales was treated in July, and presenting my thoughts on this is a matter of principle.

It’s ethically repugnant to me that contemporary western democracies can treat individuals as if the world had returned to the age of the Spanish Inquisition.

What is it that I “want us to do about it?”

Do you mean apart from serious discussion about the way that your government treats it citizens, about the way it tramples on the Fourth Amendment under the guise of “national security” and about the way an American citizen risked life and limb to expose government lies and corruption and had to seek asylum in Russia for fear of retribution?

This is, after all, a discussion thread. I was unaware that taking direct personal action to counteract such contraventions of civil liberties was a pre-requisite of participation.

As I believed your questions were asked in all sincerity I responded in the same way.

So I’m at a loss to understand why your response was to simply roll your eyes:

   ::)

I'd now like to ask you a fair question: Would you elaborate on that response, please?

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on August 30, 2013, 07:36:23 AM
I don't understand what you are saying... no one stepped in so now no one wants to step in?

I'm sorry. When I elaborated, I should have apologized for not being clearer in the first place, and, re-reading my reply, my tone strikes me as sharper than it should have been.

Mea culpa.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 30, 2013, 09:44:26 AM
I thought your reply was fine. You answered the question. No need to elaborate or candy coat.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 30, 2013, 09:45:32 AM
And I read it.

Thank God common sense prevailed for once. (Parliament's, not yours of course)


I just hope you guys are able to stand your ground.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on August 30, 2013, 09:48:51 AM
A little while ago, Lyle, you asked me why I cared (about “what is happening to Snowden or Greenwald or Miranda) and what it was that I wanted “us” to do about it.

Although you actually addressed your post to me you asked both myself and oilgun these questions, and I was a little unsure why you considered us to be a couple, and
whether you wanted me to consult with him in order to ensure that our joint answer was mutually acceptable.
In the end, though, I decided against it as I suspected he could answer for himself if he so desired...

And while I admit I was a little non-plussed about the use of “us” (perhaps it was intended in the sense of a Royal plural, or that it referred to all of humanity, or to American citizens, whose government was, after all, responsible—either directly or indirectly—for what happened to Snowden, Greenwald and Miranda) I deduced that you were really only referring to participants in the News and Current Events thread.



While your post is addressed to Lyle, I have to admit I think of you and Oily as a duo.
And I totally understood Lyle's "us."
Perhaps it is a dialect difference since we all supposedly speak the same language.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Melisande on August 30, 2013, 10:00:36 AM
Thread locked until further notice.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on August 30, 2013, 02:22:47 PM
If all of you notice, I went back and deleted the, ONCE AGAIN, personal attack posts. I deleted people across the board, so don't pm me and tell me you have been picked, because I did not play favorites.

I just don't get it. You are all adults and you just can't seem to understand what the rules are here on the this forum, or don't want to.

So as Meli posted, we're done here for the time being. Don't pm me and ask when it will be opened back up, because I have to talk to Dave and Meli about it.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 04, 2013, 10:18:31 PM
OK. I am going to open the thread back up now. Just realize that if I have to close it again due to personal attacks on one another, it will probably be permanent. So remember this:

when you post a news item and then denigrate the person, country, situation, etc. you are purposely lighting a fuse that you know will cause issues - DON'T DO IT! The discussion does not need to be a blow torch to be interesting.

to those who post to cause arguments - DON'T DO IT!

quit picking on one another. If you don't agree, say you don't, but quit baiting.

In the past when discussions were on the verge of getting out of hand, I let it go, for the sake of discussion. You've proven that I can't do that any more.

So it is up to each and every one of you as to the fate of this thread.
Keep it civil and it stays opened, go back to the type of posts that have gotten the thread closed several times recently, and it will be permanent.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 04, 2013, 11:00:23 PM
Danny the blind rescue puppy sees again

Last month, the Austin Humane Society rescued a 5-month-old hound mix named Danny — along with 29 other dogs — from a hoarding situation at a farm near Waco, Texas.
Shortly after his arrival at the shelter, Danny started losing his vision. Veterinarians diagnosed with him with juvenile cataracts. Without eye surgery, the pup would be blind for the rest of his life.
While Dr. Lynsey Wagner at Eye Care for Animals offered to donate the $4,000 surgery, funds were still needed to ensure Danny would have the testing, medication and after care required for the surgery's long-term success.
"We don't just take away their lens, we give them a new one. So he should have normal focused vision for life,” Dr. Wagner told KVUE a few days before the scheduled two-hour procedure.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/good-news/danny-blind-rescue-puppy-sees-again-175346541.html

Hot topics get people riled up, what's wrong with that?  I agree that personal insults should not be tolerated but banning the critizing of countries, that's a bit much. Seriously.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 05, 2013, 07:01:43 AM
"MOSCOW — A Russian lawmaker has proposed a bill that would deny gay parents custody over their children.

"The draft bill, published on parliament’s website on Thursday, would make the 'fact of nontraditional sexual orientation' a basis for denying custody. Other grounds include alcoholism, drug use, and abuse.

"The proposal comes in the wake of a bill banning homosexual 'propaganda' among minors. Authors of the bill have justified it as a measure aimed at protecting children, and not suppressing the LGBT community."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russian-lawmaker-proposes-bill-that-would-deny-gay-parents-custody-over-children/2013/09/05/a3a8b318-1606-11e3-961c-f22d3aaf19ab_story.html


If Syria is considered an international issue, this certainly should be as well.  The usual dilemmas over the boundary between respecting someone's culture and supporting human rights are present.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 05, 2013, 07:23:06 AM
OK. I am going to open the thread back up now....
Thank you, Linda.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 05, 2013, 07:24:06 AM
Hot topics get people riled up, what's wrong with that?
People being “riled up” means that they become angry, annoyed, resentful and very irritated, not to mention vexed...
(None of which, by the way, applied to me when you referred to me as “someone” who had posted about “the horrific runaway freight train disaster that killed 48 people and destroyed the downtown of a Quebec town.” I just took it on the chin.)

But how does your “what’s wrong with that?” accord with Linda’s request for future posts to “keep it civil,” I wonder?
How can one be “politely angry” or “respectfully irritated” ?


I guess the “devil is in the details.”

Quote from: oilgun
I agree that personal insults should not be tolerated ...
There’s a difference between posts containing outright “personal insults” and those having subtle intonations, Gil.

That’s what’s given me pause in the past, and is sometimes why I asked questions about “what was meant.”

Quote from: oilgun
...but banning the critizing of countries, that's a bit much. Seriously.
It seems, I think, to depend on the context—the difference between being critical of a country’s behaviour and the posts of someone who’s from that country.

Not to mention the posts of someone from the country whose behaviour is being criticised—but who also feels that such criticism is unjust and/or unwarranted.

It's a veritable minefield...

I suppose we should be grateful that DCF contains no members (as far as is known, anyway) of a “global militant Islamist organisation.”

That would certainly get things "hopping," wouldn't it?

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on September 05, 2013, 07:27:08 AM
Hope this doesn't sound too naïve or saintly, but if I was in anyone's home I would think it rude to criticise their country: discussing aspects of that country, yes - but not making adverse comments. And I feel here we are visiting each other's countries.

I swear I have made a point of not doing this, and to anyone who has read criticism in any of my posts - it has never been intended as such. :)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on September 05, 2013, 01:36:04 PM
Hope this doesn't sound too naïve or saintly, but if I was in anyone's home I would think it rude to criticise their country: discussing aspects of that country, yes - but not making adverse comments. And I feel here we are visiting each other's countries.

I don't think that's "naive or saintly." Once upon a time that would just have been considered good manners.  :)

when you post a news item and then denigrate the person, country, situation, etc. you are purposely lighting a fuse that you know will cause issues - DON'T DO IT! The discussion does not need to be a blow torch to be interesting.

to those who post to cause arguments - DON'T DO IT!

quit picking on one another. If you don't agree, say you don't, but quit baiting.

Thank you, Linda.

FWIW, I feel there is a difference between "criticising a country" and criticising its foreign policy, or the actions of its incumbent government, or of individuals in the government. There is also a difference between criticism and unsupported inuendo.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ennis Del Mark on September 05, 2013, 05:34:57 PM
One of the first rules of manners my parents taught me was about tact.  To wit, It's very bad manners to criticize someone or something a person likes.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 05, 2013, 06:12:21 PM
People being “riled up” means that they become angry, annoyed, resentful and very irritated, not to mention vexed...
(None of which, by the way, applied to me when you referred to me as “someone” who had posted about “the horrific runaway freight train disaster that killed 48 people and destroyed the downtown of a Quebec town.” I just took it on the chin.)

I'm mystified that you took my, what to me was a completely innocuous, comment "on the chin".  Did you feel slighted because I couldn't remember who had posted about the train disaster? You are right, what a minefield!
 
Quote
But how does your “what’s wrong with that?” accord with Linda’s request for future posts to “keep it civil,” I wonder?
How can one be “politely angry” or “respectfully irritated” ?
A thread about Hot Topics/News & Current events is bound to provoke heated discussion.  It's possible to be angry and irritated and still be civil.  I know I've been guilty of incivility, maybe it's my Latin blood but I do get carried away at times but always try to avoid personal insults.

Quote

I guess the “devil is in the details.”
There’s a difference between posts containing outright “personal insults” and those having subtle intonations, Gil.

That’s what’s given me pause in the past, and is sometimes why I asked questions about “what was meant.”

The thing about perceived subtle intonations is that they are often projections by the reader.   Like Linda mentioned a while back, we read the words without visual and aural cues so it’s easy to do, i do it all the time. Like you say, when we sense a subtle insult we should ask for clarification.
 
Quote
It seems, I think, to depend on the context—the difference between being critical of a country’s behaviour and the posts of someone who’s from that country.
 
Not to mention the posts of someone from the country whose behaviour is being criticised—but who also feels that such criticism is unjust and/or unwarranted.
 
It's a veritable minefield...

I know I’ve been very critical of the U.S ‘s foreign policy, and I also know that I occasionally ;) go overboard.  I will make an extra effort to tone down my vehemence and I sincerely apologize to anyone I may have offended. However, there's no way I can stop criticizing the US, or Russia, or Canada and any other country that pisses me off.  Hopefully I can manage to be more tactful.
 
Quote
I suppose we should be grateful that DCF contains no members (as far as is known, anyway) of a “global militant Islamist organisation.”
 
That would certainly get things "hopping," wouldn't it?

I'd settle for any run of the mill muslims especially if they were from the middle east.  ;)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 05, 2013, 06:40:00 PM
Well, I take note of the disagreement of one portion of my post and I appreciate the support from folks, which makes me believe I have gotten my point across to most of you. My post is definitely not news or current events, so I thank everyone for their input, but let's get back to news and current events.

I hope everyone gets along.

Thanks.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 05, 2013, 08:39:58 PM
Thank god. I saw Linda's name on a post and figured we were already relegated to the archives.

Isn't this like "hate the sin, love the sinner?" When you're the sinner, the whole thing feels like hate.

But back to current events and Snowy's latest big reveal...
the NSA has the power to overcome any and all internet encryption.
Once again, a big so what?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 06, 2013, 02:46:22 AM
the NSA has the power to overcome any and all internet encryption.
Once again, a big so what?

IMO, there's a huge "so what?" in terms of how they're using the ability.  However, much of the reporting has a "OMG! WHO KNEW?" tone to it, a kind of faux naivete that has a passive-aggressive odor about it.  Anyone who hasn't spent the last three decades or so in the proverbial old mine or missile silo knows that this ability is out there, and that any powerful government is going to be using it.

The gorilla/elephant/whale shark in the room is the use of this technology by employers and insurance providers to control employees' and clients' private lives, and that's what's getting too little attention.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on September 06, 2013, 11:49:58 AM
The thing about perceived subtle intonations is that they are often projections by the reader.

I think this is a wise observation. I quote it here because I believe it's something we all, myself included, need to keep in mind and be reminded of from time to time.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 06, 2013, 03:21:50 PM
"MOSCOW — A Russian lawmaker has proposed a bill that would deny gay parents custody over their children.

"The draft bill, published on parliament’s website on Thursday, would make the 'fact of nontraditional sexual orientation' a basis for denying custody. Other grounds include alcoholism, drug use, and abuse.

"The proposal comes in the wake of a bill banning homosexual 'propaganda' among minors. Authors of the bill have justified it as a measure aimed at protecting children, and not suppressing the LGBT community."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/russian-lawmaker-proposes-bill-that-would-deny-gay-parents-custody-over-children/2013/09/05/a3a8b318-1606-11e3-961c-f22d3aaf19ab_story.html


Masha Gessen is a Moscow-based writer, journalist and activist who's been speaking out in recent months on Russia's anti-gay propaganda law. Though she's an American citizen, she's from Russia and has lived in Russia for many years, raising three children with her lesbian partner, a Russian citizen. Gessen hoped Western pressure in recent months would help change the course of Russia's crackdown on its LGBT citizens, but now she believes that that's not going to happen, and that it's time to for Russian LGBT people to flee the country to escape what she says has now become "all-out war" against LGBT people in Russia. And she's calling on the United States to allow political asylum for LGBT Russians, and for LGBT activists here to focus on making that happen.
[...]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/russian-gay-activists-plea-get-us-the-hell-out-of-here_b_3881059.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 06, 2013, 05:33:31 PM
I think this is a wise observation. I quote it here because I believe it's something we all, myself included, need to keep in mind and be reminded of from time to time.

I'd be interested in knowing how a poster can protect himself from someone else's thought process (or lack thereof.)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on September 06, 2013, 06:12:54 PM
I'd be interested in knowing how a poster can protect himself from someone else's thought process (or lack thereof.)

You can't really, I guess, but you can think carefully about what you've written, and how it might be interpreted by others, and try to put yourself in a reader's place, before you hit "Post."
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 06, 2013, 06:17:46 PM
The gorilla/elephant/whale shark in the room is the use of this technology by employers and insurance providers to control employees' and clients' private lives, and that's what's getting too little attention.

Last week, a 60 Minutes report was on facial recognition technology and how far it has come in the hands of non-government organizations (read that commercial enterprise) and how far it is lagging IN government use because of privacy laws. It was NOT used to identify the Boston bombers, for instance. I don't get it. Banks and stores and google can use all this stuff willy-nilly but the FBI, CIA and other law enforcement initials can't. People have their backs up about DNA collection,  voter id laws, traffic cameras, etc. Seems overly paranoid to me.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on September 07, 2013, 01:55:34 AM
You can't really, I guess, but you can think carefully about what you've written, and how it might be interpreted by others, and try to put yourself in a reader's place, before you hit "Post."

And conversely think carefully about what the writer has said and the ways in which it could be interpreted....
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 07, 2013, 06:07:58 AM
I'm mystified that you took my, what to me was a completely innocuous, comment "on the chin". 
I was tempted, once upon a time, to change my online name to either "Someone" or “Another Poster.”  :)
Then I decided that I might be held accountable for any number of horrors, so refrained. 

Quote from: oilgun
Did you feel slighted because I couldn't remember who had posted about the train disaster?
No, Gil, I didn’t feel slighted, nor was I “angry, annoyed, resentful, irritated or even vexed.”
I accepted that you had no idea who’d posted something about what’d happened in Lac Mégantic, so it was water off a duck’s back—no worries, mate.

Quote from: oilgun
The thing about perceived subtle intonations is that they are often projections by the reader.   Like Linda mentioned a while back, we read the words without visual and aural cues so it’s easy to do...
The choice of words, and the way they’re put together to form a sentence (if they are, that is), is usually a good clue, irrespective of visual issues.
Emoticons, although ostensibly used to help convey and/or clarify meaning, can also be employed sarcastically.
I’ve wondered what purpose the Devil icon, for instance, is meant to fulfil; are we meant to interpret it as something whimsical and facetious, or as evil incarnate?


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 07, 2013, 06:08:43 AM
And conversely think carefully about what the writer has said and the ways in which it could be interpreted....
Exactly, Sara.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 10, 2013, 12:15:22 AM
Iowa grants permits for blind residents to carry guns in public

Sheriffs and advocates are divided on whether that's a good idea.

Here’s some news that has law enforcement officials and lawmakers scratching their heads:

Iowa is granting permits to acquire or carry guns in public to people who are legally or completely blind.

No one questions the legality of the permits. State law does not allow sheriffs to deny an Iowan the right to carry a weapon based on physical ability.

The quandary centers squarely on public safety. Advocates for the disabled and Iowa law enforcement officers disagree over whether it’s a good idea for visually disabled Iowans to have weapons.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130908/NEWS/309080061/Iowa-grants-permits-for-blind-residents-to-carry-guns-in-public?Frontpage&nclick_check=1
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 10, 2013, 04:29:24 AM

"Wastewater from the controversial practice of fracking appears to be linked to all the earthquakes in a town in Ohio that had no known past quakes, research now reveals. . . . A furious debate has erupted over the safety of the practice. Advocates claim fracking is a safe, economical source of clean energy, while critics argue that it can taint drinking water supplies, among other problems.

"One of the most profitable areas for fracking lies over the geological formation known as the Marcellus Shale, which reaches deep underground from Ohio and West Virginia northeast into Pennsylvania and southern New York. The Marcellus Shale is rich in natural gas; geologists estimate it may contain up to 489 trillion cubic feet (13.8 trillion cubic meters) of natural gas, more than 440 times the amount New York State uses annually. Many of the rural communities living over the formation face economic challenges and want to attract money from the energy industry.

"Before January 2011, Youngstown, Ohio, which is located on the Marcellus Shale, had never experienced an earthquake, at least not since researchers began observations in 1776. "


http://www.nbcnews.com/science/fracking-practices-blame-ohio-earthquakes-8C11073601
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 10, 2013, 09:44:06 AM
The latest national poll shows
85% -- For
  9% -- Against
  6% -- Undecided
Should Congress be sent to Syria
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 10, 2013, 11:10:09 AM
Iowa is granting permits to acquire or carry guns in public to people who are legally or completely blind....
Interesting article, Linda.

Quote
No one questions the legality of the permits. State law does not allow sheriffs to deny an Iowan the right to carry a weapon based on physical ability.

The quandary centers squarely on public safety. Advocates for the disabled and Iowa law enforcement officers disagree over whether it’s a good idea for visually disabled Iowans to have weapons.

The National Federation of the Blind does not track states that require vision tests as part of weapon permit processes and has not taken an official stand on the issue.

But its members are generally opposed to such laws, said Chris Danielsen, director of public relations for the group.

“There’s no reason solely on the (basis) of blindness that a blind person shouldn’t be allowed to carry a weapon,” Danielsen said. “Presumably they’re going to have enough sense not to use a weapon in a situation where they would endanger other people, just like we would expect other people to have that common sense.”
The presumption that blind people would have “enough sense” to use a weapon where it wouldn’t endanger people seems to miss the point, mainly,
 • why would blind people need to carry weapons in public at all; but also,
 • how would they even know whether there were people around when they were shooting at things in public? Would it be because they were moving? What if they're not moving?

Does Danielson mean that a "sensible" blind person would be entitled to shoot at something in public which wasn't a person?
And what if they missed such a "non-person thing" and hit a person?

Quote
Jane Hudson, executive director of Disability Rights Iowa, who says blocking visually impaired people from the right to obtain weapon permits would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act...believes [that] changing the state law to deny blind people or others with physical disabilities the right to carry arms would violate federal disability law.
I agree with Jane. It would be a terrible violation of their rights if Iowans with other physical disabilities (such as being without arms) were denied the right to carry arms.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 10, 2013, 12:13:18 PM
Once again some do-gooder organization is crying foul before anybody has claimed to be discriminated against.
Has any blind Iowan applied for and been denied a permit?

As for how reasonable it is to let visually impaired people carry guns, in this state you must take and pass gun handling classes to get a permit. Accuracy at shooting targets is part of the test.

I wonder what kind of tests drone operators, blind or otherwise, have to pass.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 10, 2013, 12:58:16 PM
The latest national poll shows
85% -- For
  9% -- Against
  6% -- Undecided
Should Congress be sent to Syria

Not that I am disagreeing with the authors of this poll, but I guess I have been discussing the Syrian situation with the 9%.
I had not realized the numbers had fluctuated so much from a couple of weeks ago.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 10, 2013, 01:02:52 PM
Anyone have any thoughts about the latest George Zimmerman debacle?

Did he do all the things his soon to be ex wife claimed he did in the 911 call, that she is now recanting?
Can't they arrest her for filing a false police report?

I am not defending him. It seems he is either acting weirdly to attract the attention or he is being watched more closely since the acquittal.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 10, 2013, 01:14:15 PM
Not that I am disagreeing with the authors of this poll, but I guess I have been discussing the Syrian situation with the 9%.  I had not realized the numbers had fluctuated so much from a couple of weeks ago.

Linda, I believe that's a "joke poll"...the last line says 'should Congress be sent to Syria'.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 10, 2013, 01:14:54 PM
Oh I just thought that was part of the poll.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 10, 2013, 01:17:04 PM
Sunday, September 8, 2013

President Obama’s Brilliant Strategy No One Seems To Recognize

By Wayne Bomgaars

As the media interprets recent events as Obama’s march to war, America and the world falls for it hook, line and sinker. Say what you want about Obama but he is a very smart man. He would never ask permission he did not need from Congress to launch a strike on Syria unless he knew beyond a doubt he could get it. That is if his real intentions were to actually carry out military operations. But why on earth does it appear he wants this war?

- See more at: http://freakoutnation.blogspot.com/2013/09/president-obamas-brilliant-strategy-no.html#sthash.HZqf3vWy.RvFjNFdS.dpuf

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 10, 2013, 03:49:08 PM
Anyone have any thoughts about the latest George Zimmerman debacle?

Did he do all the things his soon to be ex wife claimed he did in the 911 call, that she is now recanting?
Can't they arrest her for filing a false police report?

I am not defending him. It seems he is either acting weirdly to attract the attention or he is being watched more closely since the acquittal.

One of the things most of us Zimmerman "supporters" said from day one... "His life is over regardless of what happens from here on out."
I am not excusing his bizarre behavior... or that of his wife... but who didn't see it coming after everything they went through?
The US justice system at work.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 10, 2013, 03:51:13 PM
Sunday, September 8, 2013

President Obama’s Brilliant Strategy No One Seems To Recognize

By Wayne Bomgaars

As the media interprets recent events as Obama’s march to war, America and the world falls for it hook, line and sinker. Say what you want about Obama but he is a very smart man. He would never ask permission he did not need from Congress to launch a strike on Syria unless he knew beyond a doubt he could get it. That is if his real intentions were to actually carry out military operations. But why on earth does it appear he wants this war?

- See more at: http://freakoutnation.blogspot.com/2013/09/president-obamas-brilliant-strategy-no.html#sthash.HZqf3vWy.RvFjNFdS.dpuf




Actually, this has been discussed on several tv programs, some of them news, some of them entertainment masking as news.
And Kerry's supposed candid comment... candid, right.
Sometimes you have to spell the way out for people.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 10, 2013, 05:00:23 PM
So is Obama being played?  He has to back down from military action (which few here want) because of a deal brokered by Putin, Assad’s BFF?  I can't wait to hear how he tries to talk to this...
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 10, 2013, 05:02:55 PM
You got it backwards. BO is doing the playing.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on September 10, 2013, 05:08:45 PM
I think Putin is doing the playing. You can't trust that guy.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 10, 2013, 05:11:25 PM
You got it backwards. BO is doing the playing.

how?  this isn't his idea...his hand is being forced.  Unless he draws another "red line" timeline for Syria to turn over chemical weapons, we're just sitting back watching....and his main goal - to show Syria and other "rogue" (sorry) nations that they're very bad, and they mustn't kill their own citizens w/chemicals - is forgotten.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 10, 2013, 05:42:49 PM
It's called bait and switch.
And the red line wasn't his. Chemical weapons use has been universally banned for years.
BO is one of the few politicians who actually IS smarter than Joe Public.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 10, 2013, 05:58:57 PM
of course they've been banned, but he drew the line in the sand for Syria and had to put up or shut up......so he used reverse psychology?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 10, 2013, 07:05:20 PM
Did you miss the memo?
The US is the leader of the World and BO is the Chief Enforcer, which is his second job after Chief Persuader. The rule is no chemical weapons. Assad used them to kill 1000 people. Never mind the 100,000 killed before that, the rule is no chemical weapons. BO put the word in Putin's ear and eventually it made it through all the vodka and he suggested to Assad that the way to avoid any US interference in his little civil war was to turn over a few dirty bombs and bath salts to UN inspectors, then get back to business as usual. Game over.
Everyone happy and uninvolved.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 11, 2013, 02:40:07 AM
I believe that's a "joke poll"...the last line says 'should Congress be sent to Syria'.

Either that, or it's a 'national poll' taken in some alternate universe:

Nearly sixty percent of Americans want Congress to vote no on Syria

President Barack Obama faces a “tall order” in convincing Americans on Syria with nearly 60 percent who say they want their member of Congress to oppose the use of military force there, according to a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/09/20409207-nearly-sixty-percent-of-americans-want-congress-to-vote-no-on-syria?lite


CNN poll: Public against Syria strike resolution

Washington (CNN) -- As President Barack Obama presses his case for a strike on Syria, a new national survey shows him swimming against a strong tide of public opinion that doesn't want the United States to get involved.

The CNN/ORC International poll released on Monday shows that even though eight in 10 Americans believe that Bashar al-Assad's regime gassed its own people, a strong majority doesn't want Congress to pass a resolution authorizing a military strike against it.

More than seven in 10 say such a strike would not achieve significant goals for the United States and a similar amount say it's not in the national interest for the country to get involved in Syria's civil war.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/09/politics/syria-poll-main/

poll at http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/09/09/6a.poll.syria.pdf


Analysis: Obama seeks trust of American people even if he lacks their support for strike

(excerpt) More than 60 percent of Americans want Congress to vote against authorizing a military strike against Syria, according to a new Associated Press poll. And the opposition cuts across party lines, with 53 percent of Democrats, 59 percent of independents and 73 percent of Republicans saying Congress should vote against the plan to strike Syria.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/analysis-in-syria-address-obama-seeks-americans-even-if-he-lacks-their-support-for-strike/2013/09/10/c737ba8a-1a85-11e3-80ac-96205cacb45a_story.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 11, 2013, 05:10:38 AM
... The US is the leader of the World ...
Are you joking or being serious, Sherry?

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 11, 2013, 05:42:33 AM
It's interesting how everyone seems to have forgotten that the US has used White phosphorous and depleted uranium in Afghanistan and Iraq resulting in a 20% rise in birth defects in the case of depleted uranium.  Damn, here I am bashing the US again, I'm evidently incorrigible.  ::)
Your pointing out something which people have forgotten suggests, unless I'm mistaken, that there's a discussion underway about the use of chemical weapons. If there is it’s intermittent, but anyway...

Am I correct in thinking that the issue is that President Obama feels that direct US military action is warranted regarding the [alleged] use of chemical weapons against civilians in Syria because it “undermined US national security?”

I ask this simply to confirm what we’re talking about to avoid going off in another direction.

Anyone?


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 11, 2013, 07:27:39 AM
It's called bait and switch.

IMO more like a geopolitical game of chicken.  Sort of like in 1962, a replay of which we could certainly do without.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 11, 2013, 08:37:24 AM
Right.

I am amazed at the seeming total lack of understanding at how this could escalate into something major. BO may be right about the US military not doing pinpricks but all it takes is a pinprick for all the little sperm to escape from the rubber.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 11, 2013, 08:44:56 AM
He did not convince me that a strike was necessary for natiional security.  

And what is the expected outcome?  That they just go back to ordinary rape and torture and murder?  Yeah, that's better.......
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 11, 2013, 09:48:12 AM
He did not convince me that a strike was necessary for natiional security.  

And what is the expected outcome?  That they just go back to ordinary rape and torture and murder?  Yeah, that's better.......

Didn't convince me either, especially since the Govt is constantly poor-mouthing: whining about the cost of Social Security and Medicare, can't address our crumbling infrastructure, energy costs, can't afford to maintain or expand the National Park system BUT they always have plenty of money for the latest stupid war.

As for rape, torture and murder continuing, that will continue regardless of what we do so we might as well stay out of it.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 11, 2013, 10:08:01 AM
I hate it when the whole country agrees on something.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 11, 2013, 11:23:35 AM
2 Colo. lawmakers ousted in gun control recalls
2 Colorado Democratic lawmakers ousted in gun control recalls promoted by activists, NRA

DENVER (AP) -- Two Democratic state lawmakers who backed tighter gun laws in the aftermath of mass shootings have been kicked out of office in a recall election promoted by both grassroots activists and the National Rifle Association.

Senate President John Morse lost by just 343 votes Tuesday in a swing district in the Republican stronghold of Colorado Springs but Sen. Angela Giron lost by a bigger margin in a largely blue-collar district that favors Democrats.

The NRA said the election sent a clear message to lawmakers that they should protect gun rights and be accountable to their constituents, not to "anti-gun billionaires" — a swipe against New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who supported Giron and Morse.

Democrats will still maintain control of the state Legislature and the laws are expected to remain in place.

"The loss of this senate seat is purely symbolic," Morse said.

However, Republicans hope to build on the wins in next year's elections, when they'll try to unseat Democratic Gov. John Hickenlooper, who signed the gun legislation.

"It's a shot across the bow to prove that Colorado isn't a colony of Michael Bloomberg or John Hickenlooper. We are a people who believe in personal freedom, including the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms," potential Republican gubernatorial candidate Tom Tancredo said Wednesday.
 
- - - - - -

Reported contributions to Morse and Giron totaled about $3 million, dwarfing the amount raised by gun activists who petitioned for the recall, though some independent groups didn't have to report spending. Both the NRA and Bloomberg contributed more than $300,000 to the pro- and anti-recall campaigns. 


more:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/2-colo-lawmakers-ousted-gun-154628488.html 



bolding mine
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 11, 2013, 03:28:58 PM
 This is really tragic, the story of the feral young man discovered in Russia, the so-called Siberian Mowgli, and a real heart-breaker. His parents were hermits and he was raised with no contact with, or understanding of the outside world.  They abandoned him this summer, and moved far away.  He was discovered by a village woman nearby, and she has been fearful how he can survive the coming winter.
  He speaks slowly and has few social skills.  But the real problem is that there is no help for him since he was not registered at birth, and so has no right to medical care or social services. The village widow is too poor to support him.
  I am getting the impression that the Russian media are covering this for entertainment value only, and that no one is doing anything to see that he survives.
 I wish there was something we here could do, a facebook page, anything, to get some attention drawn, and some help. Maybe he would be homesick leaving Russia, but maybe if they have no decent care for his safety, he should be given asylum in a civilized nation. As soon as possible.
  He has no family, now, and no understanding that there are other people, who might care.  Anybody?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 11, 2013, 05:23:41 PM
A sex scandal concerning the deputy speaker of the House of Commons.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24042797
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 11, 2013, 07:21:52 PM
This is really tragic, the story of the feral young man discovered in Russia, the so-called Siberian Mowgli, and a real heart-breaker. His parents were hermits and he was raised with no contact with, or understanding of the outside world.  They abandoned him this summer, and moved far away.  He was discovered by a village woman nearby, and she has been fearful how he can survive the coming winter.
  He speaks slowly and has few social skills.  But the real problem is that there is no help for him since he was not registered at birth, and so has no right to medical care or social services. The village widow is too poor to support him.
  I am getting the impression that the Russian media are covering this for entertainment value only, and that no one is doing anything to see that he survives.
 I wish there was something we here could do, a facebook page, anything, to get some attention drawn, and some help. Maybe he would be homesick leaving Russia, but maybe if they have no decent care for his safety, he should be given asylum in a civilized nation. As soon as possible.
  He has no family, now, and no understanding that there are other people, who might care.  Anybody?

From what I can gather, he's not very feral, He self taught himself to speak English from a dictionary and would like to spend a month with a native English speaker to improve. In his free time he paints and reads books. Of course he should be given citizenship papers but at 20, he's an adult and can make his own choices as to where he wants to live.  He even says he's happy there.  To be honest, I find the story a bit fishy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2417818/Siberian-Mowgli-Odzhan-raised-wilderness-refuses-polluted-city-life.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 11, 2013, 07:55:43 PM
 Following up on my post, above, the feral boy found in Siberia, is getting more media attention.  Doing a search on Siberian Mowgli gives basic reports from Al Jazeera, to UK newspapers, and Yahoo news.
 There are already some photos, and he appears to be more like 15 y.o., rather than 20.  Also in good health.  The problem there is that wildnerness children have little immunity to illness, and the few that are found often die of pnuemonia and similar ailments.
  
  FWIW, this story brings up haunting memories from my own past.  I was living in a small efficiency in Charlottesville, and behind it were woods where a feral hillbilly teen lived, completely alone, and possibly deaf/mute.  He was terrified of males, but had taken to me, and would follow me around at a distance. And I  began to set out food for him.
 Just as I had to leave suddenly, for Norfolk, as both of my parents were ill unexpectedly (and terminal), he fell out of the tree where he strapped himself in at night, to avoid animals.  And neighbors said he had a terrible gash in his leg, with the bone showing. And they said I was the only one who could get close enough to help him. I HAD to leave, but luckily, he had also come to notice (and trust) a girlfriend who often visited me, and she was able to get him to the U.VA medical center.  But I never knew what became of him.  He was nowhere to be found, when I returned 1/2 year later.
 There is an unusual cruelty, when orphans live in the wild, and while there are many grotesque or sad events every day, there is at least some grieving or outrage.  These rare cases, of wild children, who have no understanding of the rest of the world, are a special case.  No foundations or social pressure militating for them.
 I do grieve the children gassed in Syria.  But, somehow, this rare case has gotten me haunted, yet again.  I hope it is true he will have help before the winter sets in.  I'll try to post a picture of him tomorrow.
 As for the relevance, in a world full of tragedy, it is that if we abandon interest in one, because of disinterest, we are just that much more prone to dismiss the many.
 ***Gil, I just caught your post. Any chance you could post a link for that info?  The fact, BTW, that he doesn't have citizenship papers, kind of jumps out.  I hope your source is reliable. **** Ok, I do see your link.  Thanks !!!!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 11, 2013, 08:15:41 PM
Tony, I have no idea how trustworthy The Mail is.  :-\
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 12, 2013, 04:34:11 AM
Your pointing out something which people have forgotten suggests, unless I'm mistaken, that there's a discussion underway about the use of chemical weapons. If there is it’s intermittent, but anyway...

Am I correct in thinking that the issue is that President Obama feels that direct US military action is warranted regarding the [alleged] use of chemical weapons against civilians in Syria because it “undermined US national security?”

I ask this simply to confirm what we’re talking about to avoid going off in another direction.

Anyone?

Yes, Paul, the discussion is about the use of chemical weapons in Syria, and you’re correct in thinking that President Obama feels that direct military action is warranted because the use of chemical weapons against civilians in Syria undermines US national security. I know this because I listened to the President’s Address to the Nation...

Great—when did he make it?

Just a few days ago.

I guess I’d better track it down, then—and thanks for the response.

My pleasure. :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 12, 2013, 04:38:13 AM

Well, I’ve just listened to President Obama’s fifteen minute Address to the Nation (http://www.npr.org/2013/09/10/221186456/transcript-president-obamas-address-to-the-nation-on-syria) of September 10, in which he said that “it is in the national security interests of the United States to respond to the Assad regime's use of chemical weapons through a targeted military strike,” which he explained would be a “limited strike” with the “objective: [of] deterring the use of chemical weapons [in Syria] and degrading Assad’s capabilities.”

I thought he put forward some convincing arguments to support his claim that the national security of the US was involved, such as that, if nothing is done the dictator Assad is likely to continue to deploy chemical weapons, that “other tyrants” will follow his lead and US troops “would again face the prospect of chemical warfare on the battlefield” and, if “fighting spills beyond Syria’s borders” allies of the US, such as Turkey, Jordan and Israel, could be threatened; but also that failing to “stand against the use of chemical weapons would weaken prohibitions against other weapons of mass destruction and embolden Assad’s ally, Iran, which must decide whether to ignore international law by building a nuclear weapon or to take a more peaceful path.”

These are some of the reasons he decided (even though he’s Commander in Chief, with the authority to order military strikes) to take the debate to Congress, because a united America will act more effectively than one in which the President sidelined the people’s representatives from the critical decisions of when to use force, as occurred during the previous decade, when progressively greater war-making powers were put in the hands of a President.

He also said that should such a targeted, direct strike be agreed to, it wouldn’t involve American soldiers being sent to Syria.

An impressive Address to the Nation, I thought, and one in which Obama also said that he didn’t believe in removing another dictator with force (a reference to Saddam Hussein’s removal) and that peaceful, political/diplomatic solutions are preferable, to which end he’s asked Congress “to postpone a vote to authorize the use of force” while discussions occur with Russia (“one of Syria’s strongest allies”), France,  the United Kingdom and China regarding resolutions in the United Nations which would require Assad to relinquish and destroy the chemical weapons his regime has admitted to possessing.

He also mentioned that the regime had consented to joining “the chemical weapons convention, which prohibits their use.”

I found this comment to be particularly interesting, and one which will bring me back to the issue (previously mentioned here) of white phosphorus.


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 12, 2013, 05:46:21 AM
Tony, I have no idea how trustworthy The Mail is.  :-\

Reasonably reliable, but from a very right wing perspective.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 12, 2013, 06:55:42 AM
Yes, Paul, the discussion is about the use of chemical weapons in Syria, and you’re correct in thinking that President Obama feels that direct military action is warranted because the use of chemical weapons against civilians in Syria undermines US national security. I know this because I listened to the President’s Address to the Nation...

From the Oh Right, Like No One Else Was Thinking This dept.:


Sorry, But Fuck Syria

"Across this America, city after city and state after state, the basics of daily life (and death) are being wrecked, in part, by our failure to spend on things that matter to Americans, things that actually would make this a great country. A nation that has a city [Detroit] that, even briefly, couldn't provide death or birth certificates because it didn't have paper is a nation that has absolutely no business spending millions, perhaps billions of dollars to bomb Syria just because the mad president there did something insane.

"No, sorry, but fuck Syria. When we don't have to tell schoolteachers to take a pay cut and we can assure the children of Chicago they won't get shot, we can talk about being the moral authority in the world."

http://www.rudepundit.blogspot.com/2013/09/sorry-but-fuck-syria-last-week-detroit.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 12, 2013, 07:19:51 AM
Is everyone writing/emailing their reps to get their voices out there?  Please do.  Everything is online, it's too easy to make your opinion heard, not to do it.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 12, 2013, 11:13:03 AM
Tony, I have no idea how trustworthy The Mail is.  :-\
  It was a good lead, Gil, and, again, many thanks for finding it (and thank-you Jess, for the appraisal of The Mail).   But their source was The Siberian Times.  Huh? Who knew they even had a rag?  You can read it, in English, at siberiantimes.com.
 Yes, the story is fishy, but, IMO, from various directions.  I was, myself, obviously bat-crazy because the story reminded me of the personal story I posted. Yet in fact, a starting problem was the use of the word "feral" in news stories. They have had actual feral children, in Siberia, raised by dogs, eaten by wolves. Clearly, The Times wanted that corrected and Siberia's image untarnished. Odzhan, is clearly not feral, but, IMO, is a product of parental abuse.  And in danger, as he thinks too simplistically, has had no vaccinations, and no state papers.  Also, his parents had abandoned him, briefly, leaving him confused enough to wander to the nearest town.
 My own take comes from the words he used, which, in the original Russian, would convey just a little more. Supposedly he said "cultured".  But an accurate translation is more complex. There is an incredible social division by many, in Russia, of "Kulturnii" vs. "Nyekulturnii".  It's a bug word. Not snooty, so much as clinging to a sense of being above the herd by reason of education in literature or the arts, or music.  And his parents seem to have taken Kulturnii to a cult level, rejecting civilization, and going to live in a mud hut, there to survive off of selling mushrooms and an occasional painting.
 He doesn't know when he was born, as his parents are too elitist to bother with anything other than a year (1993). Of course a baby born into that isolated mind-set, would seek to identify with his parents in any way possible, and try very hard to puzzle out the English alphabet, and dream of learning to paint. And also simplistically adopting their attitudes towards polluted cities he had never seen.
 This really has been abusive.  They live off of selling mushrooms?  To occasional hunters? Well, there must be some income, as he had managed to have an Edward Snowden shabby shirt.
 As for his speech patterns, in the Russian, they are too innocent, too formulaic.  And I have a sneaking suspicion his parents dumped him, as he wasn't fulfilling the Kulturnii mode. And outsiders (the Nyekulturnii) would have little sympathy for what would seem to be elitism, if he gets abandoned again.
  May God help this kid.  As for his claiming to be happy, that smacked too much of the attitude of the woods-boy behind my apartment.  Proud, surviving, and hopeful.  Until he fell out of the tree.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 12, 2013, 05:43:00 PM
Nothing says "remember this most terrible day, and the horrible loss of life" like mini muffins.  I hope the marketing genius behind this one got canned...


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BT5LCvSIYAECqIK.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on September 12, 2013, 06:26:22 PM
WTF??   ???


That is crazy!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 12, 2013, 06:35:29 PM
That's not the only one.


(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1347334/thumbs/o-ATT-911-TWEET-570.jpg?6)


AT&T claimed they were doing a tribute to 9/11, but not long after this pic was put up, Facebook & Twitter was flooded with angry replies about how AT&T was using 9/11 to push their product.  The photo was quickly pulled by AT&T and they issued an apology, claiming it was a tribute and not 'product placement'.

By that time it was too late, the image had been copied and reposted all over the 'net.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 12, 2013, 06:36:54 PM
I think it was a nice gesture. They wanted to mark the day. What should they have done... comp'd all the rooms?

And I see nothing wrong with the ATT ad either.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 12, 2013, 06:40:40 PM
It was a hideous gesture.  Saying nothing and "giving away" nothing would have been better....
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 12, 2013, 06:46:50 PM
Fire Ravages Jersey Shore Boardwalk Rebuilt After Hurricane Sandy

By KATE ZERNIKE Published: September 12, 2013


A Jersey Shore boardwalk barely rebuilt after Hurricane Sandy was ravaged by fire on Thursday, as flames that began in an ice cream shop quickly engulfed businesses along a stretch of beach in two towns.  Video footage showed flames and black plumes of smoke shooting high above the Boardwalk in Seaside Park. Within hours, strong gusts of wind had swept the fire north along the adjoining Boardwalk of Seaside Heights, where a roller coaster that had sat mangled in the ocean for months became a symbol of the storm’s damage. Reports from the scene said that the fire had swept through Funtown Arcade and Carousel Pier, apparently damaging a carousel that had been painstakingly restored after the storm.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/nyregion/fire-ravages-jersey-shore-boardwalk-rebuilt-after-hurricane-sandy.html?_r=0
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on September 12, 2013, 07:18:45 PM
I heard about the fire, but didn't put 2+2 together to realize that it was in the same area affected by Sandy. Bad news.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 12, 2013, 08:15:44 PM
It was a hideous gesture.  Saying nothing and "giving away" nothing would have been better....

Saying nothing will happen in another 10-15 years. All over the US.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 12, 2013, 08:34:11 PM
Saying nothing will happen in another 10-15 years. All over the US.

In 10 to 15 years we''ll all be China's bitch.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 12, 2013, 08:50:32 PM
Meanwhile, in Quebec, Canada:

Charter of Quebec values would ban religious symbols for public workers

Public employees would not be allowed to wear overt religious symbols at work under the proposed charter of Quebec values, released by the Parti Québécois today.

A diagram from the charter of Quebec values website illustrating banned overt religious symbols for public employees. (http://www.nosvaleurs.gouv.qc.ca)A diagram from the charter of Quebec values website illustrating permitted religious symbols for public employees. (http://www.nosvaleurs.gouv.qc.ca)
The minister in charge of the charter, Bernard Drainville, announced at the national assembly that if the charter were adopted by the legislature, the wearing of kippas, turbans, burkas, hijabs and "large" crosses would be banned for civil servants while they are on the job.

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/Carte-des-valeurs-pctogram-01_zpsc27bad56.jpg)

The top three pictograms show what would be acceptable and the five bottom ones show what would be banned if the charter is accepted.  I doubt that it will be because the PQ government doesn't  have a majority.

A big demo is planned for Saturday by the people opposed to the charter, should be interesting.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 12, 2013, 08:58:44 PM
What is the difference between the cross in the first row and the cross in the second?
Yamakas would be forbidden?
What about the hats worn by male and female Amish?
And what about beards? Dredlocks?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 13, 2013, 03:04:15 AM
What is the difference between the cross in the first row and the cross in the second?

The size and style.  They're saying (I assume) that the smaller cross is less "in-your-face" and therefore acceptable in the workplace.

It was my understanding (and I could be wrong) that the Muslim headwear and Jewish Yamakas are required by their religion, so how can they be forbidden?    Sherry also raises a good point with the beards and dreadlocks.   That would also include the Pe'ot, the two curls that come down in front of the ears.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 13, 2013, 04:21:44 AM
Wales votes for women bishops:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24064398
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on September 13, 2013, 04:39:27 AM
Yay!  Come on C of E! :D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 13, 2013, 04:39:37 AM
Fire Ravages Jersey Shore Boardwalk Rebuilt After Hurricane Sandy

By KATE ZERNIKE Published: September 12, 2013


A Jersey Shore boardwalk barely rebuilt after Hurricane Sandy was ravaged by fire on Thursday, as flames that began in an ice cream shop quickly engulfed businesses along a stretch of beach in two towns.  Video footage showed flames and black plumes of smoke shooting high above the Boardwalk in Seaside Park. Within hours, strong gusts of wind had swept the fire north along the adjoining Boardwalk of Seaside Heights, where a roller coaster that had sat mangled in the ocean for months became a symbol of the storm’s damage. Reports from the scene said that the fire had swept through Funtown Arcade and Carousel Pier, apparently damaging a carousel that had been painstakingly restored after the storm.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/13/nyregion/fire-ravages-jersey-shore-boardwalk-rebuilt-after-hurricane-sandy.html?_r=0

We have "the longest pier in the world" here in our town, and although it is sound and working well at the moment, it has caught fire on numerous occasions.

(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k189/skinnjes/03-Southend_1_zps7c9b2377.jpg) (http://s88.photobucket.com/user/skinnjes/media/03-Southend_1_zps7c9b2377.jpg.html)

(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k189/skinnjes/article-1317794-0B7B4543000005DC-707_634x360_zpsb19eb9be.jpg) (http://s88.photobucket.com/user/skinnjes/media/article-1317794-0B7B4543000005DC-707_634x360_zpsb19eb9be.jpg.html)

I think these seaside structures get so dry in the winds that always blow in coastal ares, so they are very prone to catch fire.
Unfortunately, they also seem to take a long time to re build, because they are also hard to insure.
I do hope you get your sea front re built quickly and efficiently.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 13, 2013, 05:35:24 AM
I think it was a nice gesture. They wanted to mark the day. What should they have done... comp'd all the rooms?

And I see nothing wrong with the ATT ad either.

IMO some of those gestures might be well-meant but still in very bad taste.

However, I do remember that as shortly after as the one-year anniversary this kind of thing was going on.  A restaurant in the town where I work offered any meal at 9.11 percent off on the anniversary.  There was little to no adverse comment at the time.  It wouldn't have been convenient.

But now that we're 12 years out, some very delayed Righteous Indignation is spilling all over the Internet over these images.  Over the past three or four days people have been sprucing up their progressive images by proclaiming how sick they are of the whole thing: why should we remember a terrible day in history when Apple's new product is out?

One person related, as if she was describing the accomplishment of a prodigy, how bored her whiny middle-schooler was that they had to pay attention to this in school for one em-effing day and she had to endure a couple of hours during which the adults failed to provide the illusion that all learning can be fun.  Oh, the brutal honesty!  the wisdom that drools out of the mouths of babes!  the nightmare of endurance when one's Facebook "friends" fail to pretend they don't remember it!  oh, the -- um, well not humanity but we're being detached and ironic anyway!

Of course, it's fairly universal when you're a child or adolescent to regard anything that you don't directly remember as an event in the last geologic age; that's become something of a Boy Scout badge of "realness" to many adults as well.  But in the case of the middle-schooler, that's probably all it was.  It's not like the kid figured out how to square the circle or tie up sand with a rope.

[finished with rant now   ::) ]
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 13, 2013, 06:22:16 AM
In 10 to 15 years we''ll all be China's bitch.

This may be the first thing you've said with which I totally agree....
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 13, 2013, 06:26:36 AM
This may be the first thing you've said with which I totally agree....

Being China's bitch would, of course, be so much worse than being Monsanto's, Walmart's, or Exxon Mobil's bitch.  (We were supposed to be Japan's bitch by now, but everyone knows how that turned out.)

It would certainly be bad news for the Duggars and the "full quiver" set.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 13, 2013, 06:38:19 AM
Following that concept, Monsanto, Apple, or Exxon Mobil tell us to think in a way that’s acceptable to us…or it’s what we’ve come to accept over years.  China?  After the fall, maybe toward the end of this century, people will knuckle under and accept the routine imprisonment of academics, of people who think and question…the “only 1” baby law, the treatment of the oceans as a sewer  (and as bad as the US is, if you think for 1 minute that the US is as bad as china on the environment, you’re wrong), the theft of IP, not only from companies but individuals…they may strike that word (individual) from the chinese dictionary…is there a Chinese word for individual?

個性
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 13, 2013, 07:14:21 AM
But whatever happened to becoming Japan's bitch?  Not so long ago that was the accepted statement of obligatory despair.

Following that concept, Monsanto, Apple, or Exxon Mobil tell us to think in a way that’s acceptable to us…or it’s what we’ve come to accept over years.

I'm sure a lot of people would find that acceptable.   They deserve whatever they get.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on September 13, 2013, 11:47:06 AM
Wales votes for women bishops:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24064398

Nice to hear.  :)  Of course, the primate of the Episcopal Church is a woman, and now the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has elected a woman as its presiding bishop as well. Less than two generations ago, neither of those denominations even had women clergy.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 13, 2013, 03:28:13 PM
Wales votes for women bishops:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-24064398

YAY!!!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 13, 2013, 03:40:30 PM
Nice to hear.  :)  Of course, the primate of the Episcopal Church is a woman, and now the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America has elected a woman as its presiding bishop as well. Less than two generations ago, neither of those denominations even had women clergy.

Now if the Catholic Church would follow suit...........................

(And yes I know it will never happen in my lifetime.) :P
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 13, 2013, 04:25:34 PM
Perhaps God is not calling women to the Catholic priesthood. If He is, you'd think He'd mention it to the Pope.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 13, 2013, 04:27:53 PM
LOL! Sherry.

God is calling women to the Catholic priesthood. it's the supposed representative of God on earth who is having problems hearing God, as it has been for centuries.

I think they are afraid of being shown up by women.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 13, 2013, 05:06:46 PM
Now you don't know that. God may think women have enough crap to deal with.

Speaking of which, I'm sick of all the news stories trying to guilt us into stepping in to the Syrian situation. Piece after piece, at all hours of the day, on tv and the internet, we get glimpses of how bad things are in Syria... the hospitals are being attacked specifically to keep the rebels from using them, neighborhoods are being bombed specifically to drive the rebels out, people are migrating in droves to refugee camps in Jordon where conditions are horrendous. That's a shame.

BUT this started with a bunch or parents upset because their kids were arrested after placing graffiti on building walls. The kids broke the law and the parents didn't like the punishment. So now 100,000+ people are dead, millions are displaced and god knows how many lives are ruined. Assad may not be a nice guy. He may actually be the devil incarnate. But he didn't start the uprising.

And the world has no business stepping in.

Let's just imagine a group of people here (in the US) decided, for whatever reason, to take on the federal government, not within the rules, but with all the firearms we have in our possession. Does anyone believe that group wouldn't be countered with greater force? And if our revolt continued, even though there was no chance of success, would any country in the world take our whining about the situation seriously? Would the UN order the American government to cease and desist?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 13, 2013, 05:56:53 PM
Would the UN order the American government to cease and desist?

Yeah they probably would,
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 13, 2013, 06:20:30 PM
At whose suggestion? Another civil war here is almost worth it to find out the answer to that question.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on September 13, 2013, 06:34:59 PM
LOL! Sherry.

God is calling women to the Catholic priesthood. it's the supposed representative of God on earth who is having problems hearing God, as it has been for centuries.

I think they are afraid of being shown up by women.

Amen.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 13, 2013, 07:04:09 PM
At whose suggestion? Another civil war here is almost worth it to find out the answer to that question.

By all those countries on the Security Council who vote against the US just because they can. They would be the ones to order the US to cease and desist.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 13, 2013, 07:14:32 PM
Oh, no. THEY would sit and wait for the smoke to clear, while rubbing their hands together and high fiving each other.
Our "allies," on the other hand, would tsk tsk and moan something "should be done to stop the madness" and then realize the guys who usually stepped in were the ones killing each other, so THEY would sit and wait for the smoke to clear.
No, the UN and "the world" are only interested in this kind of thing when it is a small and let's face it, backwards, country. And then, only if the fighting might affect oil prices.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 14, 2013, 07:12:40 AM
Perhaps God is not calling women to the Catholic priesthood. If He is, you'd think He'd mention it to the Pope.

Maybe he's too busy chatting with Pat Robertson. 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 14, 2013, 07:24:59 AM
... (President Obama) also mentioned that the regime had consented to joining “the chemical weapons convention, which prohibits their use.”
I found this comment to be particularly interesting, and one which will bring me back to the issue (previously mentioned here) of white phosphorus.
I've discovered that on the first full day of Obama’s presidency (January 20 2009), the United States deposited its consent to be bound by the United Nations Protocol on the use of incendiary weapons.

So it’s a little confusing that he would, in his 2013 Address to the Nation on September 10, 2013 refer to an event which occurred four years earlier as if it had occurred only recently.

The “chemical weapons convention” to which he referred is the UN 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons (CCW), to which the US Government was a signatory, in force since December 1983, and which aimed to provide new rules for the protection not only of military personnel, but also, and particularly, of civilians and civilian property from injury or attack.

The CCW has five separate Protocols that, in order, encompass weapons with fragments undetectable by x-rays; landmines and booby traps; incendiary weapons; blinding lasers; and explosive remnants of war.
 
While the US Government was a signatory to the CCW in 1982 and consented to be bound by Protocols I, II and III in March 1995, in January 2009 it presented to the UN an official reservation to being bound by Protocol III, as follows:

The United States of America ... reserves the right to use incendiary weapons against military objectives located in concentrations of civilians where it is judged that such use would cause fewer casualties and/or less collateral damage than alternative weapons, but in so doing will take all feasible precautions with a view to limiting the incendiary effects to the military objective and to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.”

This drew objections from seventeen member nations of the UN in 2010, of which that of the Government of the Republic of France put it in a nutshell:

“this reservation [is] contrary to the object and purpose of the Protocol since, despite the assurances given by the United States of America, it cannot guarantee the protection of civilians, which is the raison d'être of the Protocol.

The US argument appears to be that munitions containing white phosphorus are not considered to be incendiary weapons when they’re employed to provide smokescreens and flashes of light, which is precisely what Protocol III allows:

[Protocol III specifically prohibits, in all circumstances,] "making the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects, the object of attack by any weapon or munition which is primarily designed to set fire to objects or to cause burn injury to persons through the action of flame, heat or a combination thereof, produced by a chemical reaction of a substance delivered on the target [but] it also prohibits the use of incendiary weapons against military targets near concentration of civilians.
Protocol III lists certain munition types like smoke shells which, even if they contain white phosphorus, only have a secondary incendiary effect; these munition types are not considered to be incendiary weapons.

So what was Obama actually saying in his Address on September 10?

That, while the US reserves the right to use incendiary weapons against military objectives where civilians are located it’d cause fewer casualities than other weapons, but feels itself free to describe such weapons as non-incendiary as the need arises?

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than myself on this issue could offer some clarification.

My fingers are crossed that this time I’ll actually receive a response.  8)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 14, 2013, 08:55:50 AM
LOL! Sherry.

God is calling women to the Catholic priesthood. it's the supposed representative of God on earth who is having problems hearing God, as it has been for centuries.

I think they are afraid of being shown up by women.

I think that they are just afraid of women!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 14, 2013, 09:03:15 AM
yeah, right.  I think most men want things to go back to the way they were....like in Mad Men...

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 14, 2013, 09:07:11 AM
I agree with that, Nancy, but I wonder how they would cope of it really happened. All that "breadwinner" crap was a great responsibility.


   
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 14, 2013, 09:45:38 AM

US, Russia agree on plan to destroy Syria's chemical weapons by mid-2014.

The United States and Russia have agreed on a proposal to eliminate Syria's chemical weapons arsenal, averting the possibility of any immediate US military action against president Bashar al-Assad's government.
US secretary of state John Kerry and Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov announced the agreement on Saturday after nearly three days of talks in Geneva.

Under the pact, Syria must submit a "comprehensive listing" of its chemical weapons stockpiles within one week, Mr Kerry said.

He told a news conference with Mr Lavrov that UN weapons inspectors must be on the ground in Syria no later than November.
The goal, he said, was the complete destruction of Syria's chemical weapons by the middle of 2014.

Mr Kerry said that if Syria did not comply with the agreement, which must be finalised by the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), it would face consequences under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter, the part that covers sanctions and military action.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-14/us-russia-agree-plan-on-syrias-chemical-weapons/4958432

That’s all very well, but are they aware how long the task of safely detroying chemical weapons will take?

First, the chemical weapons’ sites have be located, identified, verified and sealed, and either moved to a designated destruction site in Syria itself, which is highly unlikely during a civil war, or transported out of Syria, equally dangerous in the midst of a country at war, and also a solution which would contravene the Chemical Weapons Convention’s ruling on the shipping of chemical weapons outside state borders.

Not only that, but the process of checking that what was declared by Syria was a full and complete declaration of its chemical agents, both in weapons and in bulk storage, will be time-consuming, and could take years.

Some extracts from the following article (http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/09/11/comment-russias-plan-syrias-chemical-weapons-wont-work) reveal the complexity of the issues involved:

"This isn't simply burning the leaves in your backyard," said Mike Kuhlman, the chief scientist for national security at Battelle, a company that has been involved in chemical weapons disposal work at several sites in the U.S.
"It's not something you do overnight, it's not easy, and it's not cheap."

The decades-long U.S. push to eliminate its own chemical weapons stockpiles illustrates the tough road ahead.... The Army organization responsible for destroying America's massive quantities of munitions says the effort will take two years longer than initially planned and cost $2 billion more than its last estimate. The delay means an effort that got underway in the 1990s will continue until roughly 2023 and ultimately cost approximately $35 billion.

To be fair, the U.S. stockpiles were far larger than Assad's. At its height, the American military possessed 30,000 metric tons of mustard gas, VX and sarin, the nerve agent Assad is alleged to have used to kill more than 1,400 civilians late last month. Assad has similar weapons, but his arsenal is thought to be significantly smaller. On the other hand, the U.S. chemical weapons were stored at just a handful of sites. Assad's have been disbursed across dozens of sites, many of them moveable, so locating all of the facilities would require the complete cooperation of the Assad regime. That, to put it mildly, is far from guaranteed.
...
Finding and securing all of Assad's sites would be the first major challenge of implementing the Russian plan, but it would be far from the only one. The U.S. and allied personnel would then have to separate the chemical substances themselves from the warheads of his rockets, artillery shells or missiles that had been designed to carry them to their targets. The work itself would be carried out by either robots, contractors or specially trained troops, but it would still be time-consuming and dangerous.

The next step would be to physically destroy all of chemical weapons, which can be done through one of two basic options. The first involves spraying the chemicals themselves into specialized furnaces and then burning them at around 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit for one or two seconds. Nerve agents like sarin can also be rendered largely harmless by the addition of liquid sodium hydroxide, while mustard gas can be made safe with alkaline water.
...

Kuhlman and other experts say that either type of destruction would have to be done at individual Syrian weapons sites because it wouldn't be safe to move the munitions to a centralized collection point inside Syria while the fighting was raging. That would mean either building a new permanent disposal facility at each Syrian compound or bringing in newly fielded mobile disposal units from the U.S. The mobile systems have not been tested in an active warzone and may not have the capacity to deal with Assad's huge quantities of weapons.

"Do you really want to have truckloads of chemical weapons driving around Syria during the current situation?" Kuhlman asked.

A senior Defense Department chemical weapons specialist raised a different concern.
The official said the biggest security challenge would be keeping the weapons safe while they were in storage waiting to be destroyed, not while they were being moved.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 14, 2013, 12:32:32 PM
I think that they are just afraid of women!

Good point, Jess! I agree.

Having a long history with the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, it is the ultimate misogynistic system. As in most situations there are a few priests and bishops who support woman religious, but not in the positions where it would do any good, (the Pope and cardinals).
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 14, 2013, 02:46:50 PM
The late Kennedy Shultz, of the Atlanta Church of Religious Science, used to point out that if it were not for the bias against women, Mary Magdalene would have been the first Pope, since "she was the first to see the living Christ."   Rev Schultz was raised Catholic, although Religious Science is not a Christian group.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 14, 2013, 04:22:19 PM
A couple of weeks ago we went to Hampton Court Palace, (just west of London), we were looking at the priceless tapestries, and I mean priceless, from the time of Henry VIII which were worked with gold thread. The curator explained to us that they were made by men because the work was too heavy for women as the gold is very difficult to pull through the fabric.
Also, women were thought not to have souls, and were therefore unable to create a thing of beauty, as they were not human beings.
In fact, he said, "did we know that women were not classed as human beings until the 1850's in Spain, because of the residual effects of the Inquisition."

I was stunned by all this, as was Mr Janjo.

The church is starting from a very low point as far as the inclusion of the rights and obligations of women is concerned.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 14, 2013, 05:09:33 PM
Seems to me, this bias against women started before any Christian (as in Bible beliving) church or organization. God created woman second and only as a companion for man. There are a number of passages in the Bible that place woman in the subordinate position.

As for personal history with Catholicism, I converted early in my teens. Most of my family (Madamas, Pinzas, Vegas, McFees, MacDogals and Lowes) and all my friends (except for those I was in Job's Daughters with) were Catholic. A number of my female relatives are nuns. One of my best and longest friendships is with a man, now in his 80s, who left the priesthood to marry a woman he fell in love with. I was a "practicing" Catholic for 20 or so years... and back then we practiced 7 days a week. I have never, not even once, had a conversation with anyone, male or female, who expressed the opinion that women should be priests. Actually, I've never had a conversation with any Catholic about theology (except for during the conversion process and then only with the priest who taught me my "instructions.")
The only time the idea of women Catholic priests comes up is in the non personal... like "ain't it a sin Catholics don't allow women priests."
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 14, 2013, 06:32:04 PM
A couple of weeks ago we went to Hampton Court Palace.....
The curator explained to us that they [tapestries] were made by men because the work was too heavy for women as the gold is very difficult to pull through the fabric.
Also, women were thought not to have souls, and were therefore unable to create a thing of beauty, as they were not human beings.
In fact, he said, "did we know that women were not classed as human beings until the 1850's in Spain, because of the residual effects of the Inquisition."

I was stunned by all this, as was Mr Janjo.

The church is starting from a very low point as far as the inclusion of the rights and obligations of women is concerned.
  Jess, that must have been a wonderful excursion.  Hampton Court, I believe, was bullied out of Cardinal Wolsey, and has ever had a rich history.
  But, with every apology, that curator is a ding-bat.  Might be ok for art; not remotely for history and theology.
Women were supposed not to have souls? Ridiculous. The cult of the Virgin Mary excludes that. Not to mention the off-again, on-again, sovereign queens of England, as well as other European countries. John Knox, of course, railed against the governing of Scotland and England, by Mary Stewart (Stuart, after marrying Lord Darnley), and Elizabeth Tudor. But that was sexism, not denial of women having souls.
 Extending that to Spain and the Spanish Inquisition is equally ludicrous.  Was Ferdinand presumed to be married to a zombie Isabella?
 Finally, in the 16th century, the secular Spanish invaders of America questioned whether the natives had souls.  The Vatican shot back: yes, they do, and spreading the gospel was urgent.  No mention of females excluded. Which doth explain the entrenched Catholicism of the lands south of the American border.
 Jess, de curator was an inventor, and had, I think, an agenda of argument by distortion.
Still, you got to see Hampton Court, and we have no easy day trips like that, here in Norfolk  :D.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 14, 2013, 06:47:16 PM
No comment necessary.

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/Time-01_zps78bd16a8.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 14, 2013, 07:08:04 PM
....Seems to me, this bias against women started before any Christian (as in Bible beliving) church or organization. God created woman second and only as a companion for man. There are a number of passages in the Bible that place woman in the subordinate position.
 Exactly, Sherry, and we see in the Old and New Testament, a reflection of the prejudices of male priests, disciples, and scribes. There was a female Israelite judge (Deborah?). And also, Jesus over-ruled the disciples who complained of a woman learning his teaching, in private company. So, if one is a faith-believer, it is possible to suggest that God has dealt with us, as best as He could, given our primitive prejudices (many supported by women).
  Meanwhile, we can not rule out female priests for the Catholic Church.  The Church evolves, and has the authority, allegedly, to adapt (the Keys to the Kingdom option:  "What thou shalt bound....or loose..etc.").
  Privately, Pope John Paul II considered accepting primus inter pares, if that would end the historical schism with the Eastern Churches. A powerful bumping down of the papacy.
 Just recently, the Vatican has said it is now open for discussion for priests of the Western rite to marry. And Europe was agog over the story of the French intellectual who wrote to Pope Francis about the pain of the church's teaching against gay sex, and claimed Pope Francis called him, and said, amongst other things: "What difference does your being gay make? Stay with God." Which story sent the Vatican staff into damage control. But no denial by the Renault-driving, dogma-bashing, Italian/Argentinian, Jesuit pope with an advanced degree in chemistry.
 As far as women priests, he said the door was closed there, but also added, the current status was unacceptable.  And we should also remember that when the Church of England began ordaining women, Pope John Paul broke precedent by stating that that created obstacles to re-unification of the two churches, allowing for an Anglican rite.
  It is noteworthy that that pope did NOT say it was a deal-breaker.  The remaining impediments to re-unification, of any consequence, are the Anglican ordination of female bishops, but, more seriously, the Vatican's decision that there was a break in apostolic succession under Edward VI, and the consequent need for Anglican priests to be re-ordained.  Which has the Anglican clergy baffled, miffed, and more than a little dubious.
  In these discussions, it might be helpful to remember that we, in the West, want vending-machine answers.  Put in the quarter, pull the lever, and out comes the product.  The Catholic Church has not endured for 2,000 years by public opinion polls, and vending-machine theology.  It takes time, but, we may yet see change.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 14, 2013, 08:19:38 PM
Seems to me, this bias against women started before any Christian (as in Bible beliving) church or organization. God created woman second and only as a companion for man. There are a number of passages in the Bible that place woman in the subordinate position.

Going on that topic, wasn't marriage originally set up as a way for men to "own" women?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 14, 2013, 09:06:32 PM
    In these discussions, it might be helpful to remember that we, in the West, want vending-machine answers.  Put in the quarter, pull the lever, and out comes the product.  The Catholic Church has not endured for 2,000 years by public opinion polls, and vending-machine theology.  It takes time, but, we may yet see change.

I have never wanted nor accepted vending machine answers to anything and I am part of the West, and I know a lot of people who won't accept them either. What few women who were powerhouses in the Old Testament, and what Christ preached and supported is a far cry from what is taught and supported in today's church, and the hierarchy of that church. Since the early translations of the Catholic Bible, it has always been what the MALE hierarchy SAID God and Jesus MEANT, not actually what was written.

One of the prime examples of this is the condemnation of the LCWR (Leadership Conference of Women Religious) of the US, for the sin of preaching the Gospel through thought and action, as Jesus meant them to. Support of the poor, feeding the starving, teaching and supporting the "working" form of birth control. This is things the priests should be doing but don't mainly because there are not enough to do the job.

Pope Benedict started it and Pope Francis has supported it.

The image of the dance was offered in the current context of the strained relationship the LCWR now has with the Vatican, after the release by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) last year of a doctrinal assessment calling for reform within the LCWR — a superiors’ organization of about 1,500 sisters who lead orders that include 80% of the sisters in the country — and placing the group under the direction of Archbishop J. Peter Sartain of Seattle. While Archbishop Sartain delivered a brief public address at the start of the LCWR’s Aug. 13-16 conference, his specific discussions with the LCWR with respect to the doctrinal assessment occurred only during closed meetings. The LCWR leadership announced earlier that its board would meet privately for three days afterward, before making a public response to the Vatican initiative.

Referencing Perfectae Caritatis (Perfect Charity), the decree on the renewal of religious life issued in 1965 by the Second Vatican Council, Sister Florence added, “It called on religious to undertake a ‘radical renewal’ in the sense of a return to the roots or sources of Christian life, including the vision of our founders; and to listen to the promptings of the Holy Spirit as we adapt to the changing conditions of our times.”


Read more: http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/lcwr-leader-describes-its-relationship-with-the-church-as-delicate-weaving/#ixzz2evXDEB7f

As I said in the previous post, change will not take place in my lifetime. If the Catholic Church wants to continue in to the future, the male hierarchy will have to allow women a greater role in the future  of this Church.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 14, 2013, 10:20:49 PM
Well, back to the beginning... as it was and ever will be. Evolution is not always an improvement. Like I said, I don't know anyone, Catholic or otherwise, who is upset by the lack of female priests, if they ever think about it in the first place. I personally can't see that having a woman in that position would change anything. What's next... a female wide receiver on the Green Bay Packers?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 15, 2013, 02:01:46 AM
The size and style.  They're saying (I assume) that the smaller cross is less "in-your-face" and therefore acceptable in the workplace.

It was my understanding (and I could be wrong) that the Muslim headwear and Jewish Yamakas are required by their religion, so how can they be forbidden?    Sherry also raises a good point with the beards and dreadlocks.   That would also include the Pe'ot, the two curls that come down in front of the ears.

There is nothing in the koran that says women must wear a hijab or any other headwear.  I suspect the same is true with jews.  I don't think dreads are considered religious symbols by most people, they are just cool, lol!

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on September 15, 2013, 04:26:11 AM
Meanwhile, in Quebec, Canada:

Charter of Quebec values would ban religious symbols for public workers

Public employees would not be allowed to wear overt religious symbols at work under the proposed charter of Quebec values, released by the Parti Québécois today.

A diagram from the charter of Quebec values website illustrating banned overt religious symbols for public employees. (http://www.nosvaleurs.gouv.qc.ca)A diagram from the charter of Quebec values website illustrating permitted religious symbols for public employees. (http://www.nosvaleurs.gouv.qc.ca)
The minister in charge of the charter, Bernard Drainville, announced at the national assembly that if the charter were adopted by the legislature, the wearing of kippas, turbans, burkas, hijabs and "large" crosses would be banned for civil servants while they are on the job.

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/Carte-des-valeurs-pctogram-01_zpsc27bad56.jpg)

The top three pictograms show what would be acceptable and the five bottom ones show what would be banned if the charter is accepted.  I doubt that it will be because the PQ government doesn't  have a majority.

A big demo is planned for Saturday by the people opposed to the charter, should be interesting.

It's just so difficult to know where to draw the line, and I suspect everyone would draw it slightly differently.

My own feelings are that for a woman to feel the need to cover her face in the presence of men is deeply offensive to all parties, as well as the security angle which would could apply in some workplaces. (And on a slight tangent, for some Orthodox Jewish women to cover their hair with realistic wigs seems nothing short of bizarre - just what is that supposed to say?)

I am not criticising Islam or Judaism - just some of their manifestations. And I know that there are endless "But what abouts?......"
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on September 15, 2013, 05:08:21 AM

Former diplomat Richard Butler welcomes Syria weapons agreement

In a seven minute   interview (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-15/former-diplomat-richard-butler-welcomes-syria-weapons/4958830) on ABC News today Richard Butler, who was also Chief UN Weapons Inspector in Iraq, says the US and Russia's Chemical Weapons Agreement with Syria is a model for how these things should be done—politically, legally and in technical terms.

Considering his experience in Iraq—and that it was an off-the-cuff interview rather than the presentation of some prepared speech—I thought his comments were interesting enough to transcribe, for the benefit of those with only dial-up, what I believe to be his pertinent comments:

The Agreement asks the Syrians to declare everything they hold, it provides a mechanism for verification of that declaration and then for the destruction of all chemical weapons—and chemical labs—in Syria. This is a model, and if we think about the politics which went behind it we should all be pretty pleased.

Will it be done? I suspect it’s going to be hard, and harder than it was in Iraq, because it’s taking place in a country that’s at war...

The first step to watch, in the days immediately ahead, because Syria’s been given one week in which to declare all of its holdings, will be will Syria do it, does it actually know how much of this stuff that it’s got? Will its declaration accord with what intelligence sources know to be the case? That’ll be the first really sharp test. Syria would be crazy if it doesn’t try to make a credible declaration, but stranger things have happened...

The Agreement takes the whole issue of CW out the hands of two big powers demonstrating their muscularity to each other; they have, instead, put this where it should be:

right in the centre of international structures and the law, the organisation for the prevention of chemical weapons is involved, [and] the UN’s involved and the Security Council under Chapter 7 will be involved.

This is the international system working in the way that it should, not the will of any individual state, but under the rules, under the principles of international law...


[Regarding the use of “military strikes,” Butler thinks, as he says do many others, that there’s too much ready recourse to military threats when there’s more complex problems to solve (i.e. 2 million people in refugee camps, 7 million internally-displaced people) and it was of interest to him that “the Agreement has in it an agreement between Russia and the United States that if this project starts to fail they will consider taking action under Chapter 7 of the UN Charter, which provides for the use of military force in certain circumstances.”]

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on September 15, 2013, 05:50:40 AM
  Exactly, Sherry, and we see in the Old and New Testament, a reflection of the prejudices of male priests, disciples, and scribes. There was a female Israelite judge (Deborah?). And also, Jesus over-ruled the disciples who complained of a woman learning his teaching, in private company. So, if one is a faith-believer, it is possible to suggest that God has dealt with us, as best as He could, given our primitive prejudices (many supported by women).
  Meanwhile, we can not rule out female priests for the Catholic Church.  The Church evolves, and has the authority, allegedly, to adapt (the Keys to the Kingdom option:  "What thou shalt bound....or loose..etc.").
  Privately, Pope John Paul II considered accepting primus inter pares, if that would end the historical schism with the Eastern Churches. A powerful bumping down of the papacy.
 Just recently, the Vatican has said it is now open for discussion for priests of the Western rite to marry. And Europe was agog over the story of the French intellectual who wrote to Pope Francis about the pain of the church's teaching against gay sex, and claimed Pope Francis called him, and said, amongst other things: "What difference does your being gay make? Stay with God." Which story sent the Vatican staff into damage control. But no denial by the Renault-driving, dogma-bashing, Italian/Argentinian, Jesuit pope with an advanced degree in chemistry.
 As far as women priests, he said the door was closed there, but also added, the current status was unacceptable.  And we should also remember that when the Church of England began ordaining women, Pope John Paul broke precedent by stating that that created obstacles to re-unification of the two churches, allowing for an Anglican rite.
  It is noteworthy that that pope did NOT say it was a deal-breaker.  The remaining impediments to re-unification, of any consequence, are the Anglican ordination of female bishops, but, more seriously, the Vatican's decision that there was a break in apostolic succession under Edward VI, and the consequent need for Anglican priests to be re-ordained.  Which has the Anglican clergy baffled, miffed, and more than a little dubious.
  In these discussions, it might be helpful to remember that we, in the West, want vending-machine answers.  Put in the quarter, pull the lever, and out comes the product.  The Catholic Church has not endured for 2,000 years by public opinion polls, and vending-machine theology.  It takes time, but, we may yet see change.

Although, from what I've heard, many Anglican installations of bishops during the twentieth century have included Orthodox bishops who, at least up to the time of ordination of women, were on friendly relations with the Anglican communion and saw their participation among other things as a way to poke Rome in the eye. As a result many, though not all, Anglican bishops can be seen as borderline valid in the eyes of the Catholic Church.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 15, 2013, 06:14:55 AM
  Jess, that must have been a wonderful excursion.  Hampton Court, I believe, was bullied out of Cardinal Wolsey, and has ever had a rich history.
  But, with every apology, that curator is a ding-bat.  Might be ok for art; not remotely for history and theology.
Women were supposed not to have souls? Ridiculous. The cult of the Virgin Mary excludes that. Not to mention the off-again, on-again, sovereign queens of England, as well as other European countries. John Knox, of course, railed against the governing of Scotland and England, by Mary Stewart (Stuart, after marrying Lord Darnley), and Elizabeth Tudor. But that was sexism, not denial of women having souls.
 Extending that to Spain and the Spanish Inquisition is equally ludicrous.  Was Ferdinand presumed to be married to a zombie Isabella?
 Finally, in the 16th century, the secular Spanish invaders of America questioned whether the natives had souls.  The Vatican shot back: yes, they do, and spreading the gospel was urgent.  No mention of females excluded. Which doth explain the entrenched Catholicism of the lands south of the American border.
 Jess, de curator was an inventor, and had, I think, an agenda of argument by distortion.
Still, you got to see Hampton Court, and we have no easy day trips like that, here in Norfolk  :D.


I suspect he was referring to arcane points of law, which often linger for centuries after society has moved on.
Hampton Court, is absolutely fabulous. We were there all day and never got to see all of it, or to go in the maze.
I would like to go back.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 15, 2013, 09:29:16 AM
It's just so difficult to know where to draw the line, and I suspect everyone would draw it slightly differently.

My own feelings are that for a woman to feel the need to cover her face in the presence of men is deeply offensive to all parties, as well as the security angle which would could apply in some workplaces. (And on a slight tangent, for some Orthodox Jewish women to cover their hair with realistic wigs seems nothing short of bizarre - just what is that supposed to say?)

I am not criticising Islam or Judaism - just some of their manifestations. And I know that there are endless "But what abouts?......"

It is difficult to know where to draw the line and this proposed charter is incredibly controversial here.  However it seems to have the support of a majority of Quebecois.  I think it's because Quebec was essentially a theocracy up until the sixties.  The Catholic church controlled every part of people's lives. Some were actually excommunicated for refusing to have more children.  Nuns & brothers ran hospitals and schools, people in tunics and habits were everywhere. That may be a reason why so many here feel threathened by religious symbols.  We managed to free ourselves from Catholic oppression so we don't want religion to creep back into our secular government. I also think that where people live is another factor, people in cities who are often in contact with religious minorities tend to be more accepting while those living in small towns and suburbs who rarely see them, feel threatened. Which is kind of ironic when you think about it. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered if my doctor wore a kippa or the person at the licence bureau wore a hijab, but I'm apparently in the minority. On the other hand seeing a woman with her face covered does creep me out.  In fact as a gay person, ultra orthodox/fundamentlist religious people do make me uneasy because they tend to be very homophobic.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 15, 2013, 09:59:46 AM
Costa Concordia salvage operation to go ahead Monday

The Italian island of Giglio made final preparations Sunday on the eve of an unprecedented attempt to raise the 114,500-ton Costa Concordia cruise ship from its watery grave.

Salvage workers could be seen fixing the giant metal chains and cables that will hoist up the 290-metre (951-foot) wreck, which is roughly the length of three football fields.

The civil protection agency, which is overseeing the project, gave its final go-ahead on Sunday, saying the weather forecast looked favourable.

The biggest rotation of a passenger ship ever attempted is set to begin shortly after 6:00 am (0400 GMT) on Monday and could last up to 12 hours.


more

http://news.yahoo.com/costa-concordia-salvage-operation-ahead-monday-134446321.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on September 15, 2013, 12:50:55 PM
Hampton Court, is absolutely fabulous. We were there all day and never got to see all of it, or to go in the maze.
I would like to go back.

Hampton Court is on my "bucket list" if, indeed, I ever do get to England. I have checked a couple of group tours, thinking that might be my best bet, but none of them have included Hampton Court, and with my love of Tudor history, not including Hampton Court was a deal breaker. If I ever get across the pond, I have three "must-sees," the Abbey, the Tower, and Hampton Court. (Anything else will just be "gravy.")
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 15, 2013, 12:55:32 PM
Miss Uzbekistan mystery: Rakhima Ganieva competing in Miss World, called an 'imposter'

While the Miss America 2014 competition takes place Sunday (Sept. 15), offering its own share of entertainment outside the actual pageant, the Miss World 2013 competition has a bizarre mystery at the center.

One contestants' background is currently unknown, and officials are unaware how she made it all the way to Miss World.

According to officials from Uzbek Culture and Sports Ministry and the National Committee on Women, Uzbekistan didn't hold a Miss Uzbekistan competition and anyone saying they represent the country is an "imposter" ... a.k.a. 18-year-old Miss Uzbekistan Rakhima Ganieva.

The Tashkent native gained fame this summer when she was named Uzbekistan's first-ever representative in the Miss World competition, although now many are wondering how she even made it to the competition.

Ganieva seems to believe she belongs at the Miss World competition. "On 20 of July, I took part in a beauty contest, and I won the title of Miss Uzbekistan 2013 and I am very happy of this event," Ganieva says in her Miss World introduction video.

Zhavlon Komolov, a representative of the Tashkent-based Pro Models modeling agency where Ganieva briefly trained as a 15-year-old, said, "Rakhima Ganieva never passed through any special selection process in Uzbekistan. If there had been a process to choose a young lady for this competition, I can assure you that a much more beautiful model would have been chosen. I'm sorry that Ganieva is choosing to build a career on lies."

While this mystery is ongoing and she hasn't been kicked out of Miss World yet, officials have more important issues to handle -- they are currently looking for a new location to host the competition in Indonesia because some Islamists in Jakarta say the capital city would be disgraced by hosting a "pornographic" contest.


http://blog.zap2it.com/pop2it/2013/09/miss-uzbekistan-mystery-rakhima-ganieva-competing-in-miss-world-called-an-imposter.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 15, 2013, 02:30:17 PM
Evolution is not always an improvement.

Indeed.  In almost any public place you can see it happening:

http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/2013/09/14
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 15, 2013, 02:35:05 PM
Seems to me, this bias against women started before any Christian (as in Bible beliving) church or organization. God created woman second and only as a companion for man.

That's one of the two creation stories in Genesis.  In the other, God's creation of human being is referred to in the plural (assuming the translations are accurate).

The "woman from a Kansas City BBQ" version might have reflected very early beliefs about how developing life started.  The male was assumed to have contributed everything necessary for the new life, with the female's contribution being environmental; i.e., providing the nourishment and the place for the embryo to develop.  For "Eve" to have been created out of "Adam" fit perfectly with both the norms of the time and the science -- which was, needless to say, incomplete.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 15, 2013, 03:51:13 PM
I don't care what people believe, but the truth is the world is divided by different creation and spiritual beliefs, including the non religious ones. Catholics fall into the Christian category of religions and therefore, the Bible is the general roadmap for them. And the Bible puts females in a secondary position to males. Also, the old testament has several scriptures about women not preaching. Both ideas would preclude female priests. Of course, the old testament rules were put to rest with the coming of Christ, but then, that depends on what translation your particular religion chooses to follow.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 15, 2013, 04:02:51 PM
However, genetically speaking, woman is the "original" type, whilst men are, biologically speaking, more of an experiment.
Sexual reproduction was developed in this way.
Could this be why men feel threatened by women?
Why some men feel that women have to be kept in a subservient position, (generally, not personally, speaking)?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 15, 2013, 05:02:07 PM
And of course, there is no explanation needed for why some women feel threatened by men.
Biology not withstanding, if your belief is Bible oriented, God created woman as a helper for man. He didn't say helper around the house or helper in the workplace or helper in government or helper in presenting His word to the world. Just plain ol' helper as in assistant.
And you can compare it to Hamburger Helper... the helper part is everything that is needed for the single hamburger part to work.

And personally speaking, you are the rarest of women if you have never been around a man who felt you needed to be kept in a subserient position. Congratulations.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on September 15, 2013, 07:13:19 PM
I don't care what people believe, but the truth is the world is divided by different creation and spiritual beliefs, including the non religious ones. Catholics fall into the Christian category of religions and therefore, the Bible is the general roadmap for them. And the Bible puts females in a secondary position to males. Also, the old testament has several scriptures about women not preaching. Both ideas would preclude female priests. Of course, the old testament rules were put to rest with the coming of Christ, but then, that depends on what translation your particular religion chooses to follow.

You're welcome to come to my church some Sunday. I'll find out for you when our lesbian assistant minister is preaching and consecrating Communion.  ;)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 15, 2013, 08:29:07 PM
I love women preachers, lesbians or not.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on September 16, 2013, 07:22:41 AM
I love women preachers, lesbians or not.

The Roman Church doesn't know what it's missing by forbidding the priesthood to women. Based on my own experience, I feel that women who have borne and raised children are much better equipped by their own life experiences to be pastoral counselors than men are. I've had better counsel, comfort, and advice from a woman pastor than I've ever had from a man.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 16, 2013, 10:51:39 AM
It's the nature of the beast and why so many really strong preacher-men have made great wife choices. But counselling is only part of the job. Honestly, I don't think I've ever been in a church, Catholic or otherwise, where one person was better than average at everything required of THE spiritual leader.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on September 16, 2013, 11:00:04 AM
Our rector (Church of England) is pretty good on all fronts - I've never heard one word of complaint about her in the two years she's been here, which must be fairly unusual.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 17, 2013, 01:14:56 PM
 Yesterdays Navy Yard shooting was yet another in a series of tragedies.  But, am glad it may bring some attention to the poor clearance habits for the, what is it, 1.5 million private contractors?  They can retrieve a telephone pizza order from 3 years ago, but they can't track 2 incidents of gun violence before granting clearance?  What are the super-computers doing, watching Ozzie and Harriet re-runs  ::) ?
  Meanwhile, I nearly fell out of my chair over an early CNN interview with one Navy commander.
He goes: "Well a lot of us run to the rooms for when people come in shooting....". Suggesting routine  ::).
And then asked if he was traumatized by a friend being shot in the head near to him, he looks blank and says, "Am sure glad it wasn't me !"
 CNN began editing those parts out of the interview, later in the day. Probably someone alert in the Navy PR office.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 17, 2013, 03:30:00 PM
How 'bout screen for mental illness, including PTSD? The guy just got out of the Reserves AND was trying to get help with the voices in his head at the VA hospital a couple weeks ago.

Yep, no natiuonal health service needed in THIS country.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on September 17, 2013, 04:07:36 PM

Yep, no national health service needed in THIS country.

Well, we can't have that its Socialism. We can't have that here in USA. It leads to Communism.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 17, 2013, 04:50:25 PM
Right. Plenty of examples of that.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 17, 2013, 04:59:13 PM
Or not.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 17, 2013, 08:53:28 PM
Exactly!

[sarcasm]Don't you just love how America is going to hell in a hand basket because of socialized medicine and gay marriage??[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 17, 2013, 10:29:59 PM
Damn, Linda. Is nothing safe with you?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on September 17, 2013, 10:41:38 PM
Nope! ;)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 18, 2013, 08:01:14 AM
The Roman Church doesn't know what it's missing by forbidding the priesthood to women. Based on my own experience, I feel that women who have borne and raised children are much better equipped by their own life experiences to be pastoral counselors than men are.

And for women who have not 'borne and raised children', I guess there's always that Hamburger Helper option.   ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 18, 2013, 10:48:48 AM
There are any number of ways the Church can avail itself of female "pastoral" services without allowing women priests.

On the other hand or knee, if there was a huge outcry from within the Church membership FOR female priests, the powers that be might have to pay attention. But I doubt there is much interest anywhere but in the "civilized" world.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on September 18, 2013, 03:11:45 PM
Well, male or female, religious or secular, I have always maintained that it is vital to have an advocate nearby when trouble strikes.

Years ago a now fairly famous actor, but not then, fell from a fake tree during the performance of a play.  
It was a long drop and he hit his head and fell awkwardly on his ankle.  
He was able to finish the act, but as the lights went on for the intermission, he was hobbling off stage.
(This was at Circle in the Square, so there was no stage curtain.)

The stage manager helped the actor offstage, and the lead, (then an already very famous actor) made an announcement to the effect of
"Mr. X seems to have injured himself, so if there is a doctor in the house, would you please come to the stage door."

They took the injured actor to the lead actor’s dressing room, where there was a
couch he could lay on. He was lying there with a group of us around him, when suddenly a man appeared in the doorway.

"ARE YOU A DOCTOR?" snapped the lead actor.

The man, apparently stunned by the intensity of the words, stammered, "Well, I'm a therapist..."

The lead said, "HE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT HIS FUCKING CHILDHOOD - HE FELL OUT OF A TREE!!"

This event is not "news", of course, but somehow it feels "current".
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on September 18, 2013, 05:40:33 PM
Pope Francis appears to be open to the idea of women appointed to the permanent diaconate. Not enough to please many people, but it would be a huge step forward.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 18, 2013, 06:35:19 PM
Well, as a former catholic I haven't the faintist idea what a diaconate is but I'm sure the outfit is fabulous, lol!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 18, 2013, 06:38:47 PM
  So, they could diaconate, but not transubtantiate  :D ?

 Well, it's a start.  And we should remember the progressive changes in the Church of England were gradual, over, what, a decade or so?
  BTW, isn't there a theory of the Universal Priesthood, which the Catholic church concedes, but fears?  Meaning, if one has been confirmed (with the laying on of the hands), then one has apostolic succession?  Egads, if Doodler was confirmed, (and little girls and adults are, routinely), does this mean..... oh, heck, I don't wanna go there  :D  !!!
 Thou art a priest of the order of Melchizedek...., said at every Mass.
  Sorry, but I'm picky as to who hears my confession  :).  Sherry wouldn't want to endure that anyway.  It's too boring. I don't get around much, and also am too mundane.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 18, 2013, 06:48:43 PM
I hear enough confessions already and I never wear a collar. Even total strangers want to tell me all their secrets.
As if I was interested in anybody's problems but my own.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 19, 2013, 05:42:52 AM
Speaker Boner calls on Obama to help him defeat The Affordable Care Act "Obamacare":

“It’s a shame that the president could not manage to rise above partisanship today.  Instead, he should be working in a bipartisan way to address America’s spending problem -- the way presidents of both parties have done before.  He should work with us to delay his health care law for everyone – just as he’s done for big businesses – expand energy production, simplify our tax code, and more.  The president is right that we’re ‘not yet where we need to be,’ which is why Republicans will stay focused on growing our economy and expanding opportunity for all Americans.” 

http://www.speaker.gov/press-release/speaker-boehner-responds-president-obama-s-speech

video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5ncRVfJ2y8
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 19, 2013, 11:17:01 AM
We have 3 - 4 RAM clinics here a year, including the largest in the US and yet the Republican Congresspeople... I think they're all men... from VA and TN are working to push Phil Roe's new health care plan which will terminate Obamacare before it starts and will do nothing to provide health care for people who can't afford it. There is also a plan before the TN state legislature to make SNAP (food stamp) recipients use the benefits on HEALTHY food only, as if there aren't enough restriction on their use already. Healthy food costs more than run of the mill canned and processed foods, but hey, if they have to eat less it will also help with the obesity problem, eh?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 19, 2013, 11:26:06 AM
so our gov't isn't quite as smart as the UK, where universal healthcare coverage has been around since 1948...we just can't seem to get it right...
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 19, 2013, 01:10:01 PM
Four dozen countries have universal health care for their citizens, with varying success, but even the worse of them are better than what passes for health care in the US. I simply do not understand the resistance.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 19, 2013, 01:25:12 PM
 Something of a news overdose today.
   * Pope Francis has warned the Catholic church that being obsessed with abortion, gays, and contraception will cause the church to collapse like a house of cards. While not undermining church teaching, he said the church should be like a field hospital after a battle, and mindlessly focusing on theological decisions of the church reduces everything to bureaucratic rule-enforcing.  Besides, he said, no one should interfere with someone else's spiritual journey.
   He also said women MUST enter into places of authority.  He could not consider altering the rules against female priests at this time, but step-by-step discussions must begin. This was on Yahoo news, and am sorry I can't provide a link, but this sounds like the rumblings of the biggest revolution in church history.  And it's in plain sight.
 
 * From Facebook, supposedly, Russian President Medvedev said, off-mike, that the Russian secret police are tracking extra-terrestrials there, but they can't give out numbers to avoid panic.  Huh?  Is this new urban legend, or did this dude actually say that? Either way, it will become a source for the Area 51 crowd.
  
 * Somebody detained at the Norfolk Naval Base, with suggestions vaguely of a pre-emption of something like the Navy Yard shooting.  Little news given out, so far.  It's 1 mile from me, at that location.  I hope it was over-caution.
  
 *  The YouTube video of the "Crazy Toledo Cop", looked to me to be a prime example of being cautious even about what you see.  Looking more closely, it is possible this was a case of defying a police officer, on a traffic stop, and the usual: "We're white; and you DON'T tell us no."
 Too much news in a rapidly changing world.  I can't keep up  :P......
  
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on September 19, 2013, 01:54:46 PM
REALLY hopeful about that interview with Pope Francis.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-churchs-obsession-with-gays-abortion-and-contraception-means-it-could-fall-like-a-house-of-cards-8827784.html

The full text of the interview.

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

dated 30 September, curiously enough.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 19, 2013, 03:40:52 PM
REALLY hopeful about that interview with Pope Francis.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-francis-churchs-obsession-with-gays-abortion-and-contraception-means-it-could-fall-like-a-house-of-cards-8827784.html

The full text of the interview.

http://www.americamagazine.org/pope-interview

dated 30 September, curiously enough.

 Fritz, thank-you so much for providing these links !  Whenever someone does that, it is so very helpful.  It's already a lead story on CNN, but I think the story is so important, people should read the original.  And I wonder if some of us will take "yes" for an answer.
 
  I do think the Pope is trying to find a balance between a call to spiritual strictness, and condemning people.  Promiscuity, for example, is contrary to a spiritual life, IMO. He's not giving a blessing to all forms of anything goes.  But that would be for another thread.  Here, the news is that NONE of this Pope's attack on Pharasaical ways, can be retracted. He's said them, they stand, and he's just getting started.
  This has enormous implications for the gay community.  Pope Francis has repeatedly brushed to the side "intrinsic disorder", condemnation, and disinclusion.  In the above articles, he said he does not want gays to be or even feel injured by the church.  This is in line with the fact that straights have stuff going on, a LOT of stuff, and picking on one group is phony and un-Christian.
  
  There are also, believe it or not, huge political implications for the U.S.  For decades, the bishops have been the patsy of the fundamentalists, placing theological dogma above social justice, and aligning with them.  Pat Robertson has been one to play this card heavily. And so a huge swing vote, Catholics, now have to ponder the Pope's message the next time they go vote.  And conservative Catholic political leaders are really up the creek without a paddle.
  Anyone who doubts political implications to papal statements should remember, a mostly Protestant U.S., was stomping on the emerging labor unions in the 1860's era.  Pope Leo XIII issued the encyclical Rerum Novarum, (Of New Things), which included a condemnation of suppression of worker's rights as sinful.  The pressure to outlaw unions vanished.
  Habemus Papem  :).  And the worst he's done so far, is to annoy atheists, by suggesting they are welcome in heaven, too. Gosh, the audacity  :D.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 19, 2013, 03:51:01 PM
 On the other news story, still no proof Medvedev has the Russian secret service tracking extra-terrestrials amongst us  ::).

 In yet other news, CNN is reporting that the Navy Yard shooter's first major psychotic episode, believing he was being followed, happened at the Norfolk airport.
 Local news is reporting he was working at the Amphib Base, here, several months ago.  Very creepy.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 19, 2013, 04:17:30 PM
Creepy? Odd choice of words. The mentally ill walk among us, unnoticed, undiagnosed, unfettered. Then shit happens. Creepy? Criminal is more like it. But on whose part? If the nutjobs were noticed, diagnosed and fettered with either forced medications or confinement, it would be a violation of their civil rights. So the rest of us can kiss OUR civil rights good-bye.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on September 19, 2013, 07:55:48 PM
Fritz, thank-you so much for providing these links !  Whenever someone does that, it is so very helpful.  It's already a lead story on CNN, but I think the story is so important, people should read the original.  And I wonder if some of us will take "yes" for an answer.
 
  I do think the Pope is trying to find a balance between a call to spiritual strictness, and condemning people.  Promiscuity, for example, is contrary to a spiritual life, IMO. He's not giving a blessing to all forms of anything goes.  But that would be for another thread.  Here, the news is that NONE of this Pope's attack on Pharasaical ways, can be retracted. He's said them, they stand, and he's just getting started.
  This has enormous implications for the gay community.  Pope Francis has repeatedly brushed to the side "intrinsic disorder", condemnation, and disinclusion.  In the above articles, he said he does not want gays to be or even feel injured by the church.  This is in line with the fact that straights have stuff going on, a LOT of stuff, and picking on one group is phony and un-Christian.
 
  There are also, believe it or not, huge political implications for the U.S.  For decades, the bishops have been the patsy of the fundamentalists, placing theological dogma above social justice, and aligning with them.  Pat Robertson has been one to play this card heavily. And so a huge swing vote, Catholics, now have to ponder the Pope's message the next time they go vote.  And conservative Catholic political leaders are really up the creek without a paddle.
  Anyone who doubts political implications to papal statements should remember, a mostly Protestant U.S., was stomping on the emerging labor unions in the 1860's era.  Pope Leo XIII issued the encyclical Rerum Novarum, (Of New Things), which included a condemnation of suppression of worker's rights as sinful.  The pressure to outlaw unions vanished.
  Habemus Papam  :).  And the worst he's done so far, is to annoy atheists, by suggesting they are welcome in heaven, too. Gosh, the audacity  :D.

Exactly. Here's hoping to an end of the Pharisee era, having begun perhaps in 1978, or at the end of the Second Vatican Council, for at least a little while since it will always return sometime. May he live healthily and long.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 19, 2013, 10:19:01 PM
House Republicans approve deep cuts to food stamps

By Chris Casteel

WASHINGTON — The U.S. House narrowly approved Republican legislation on Thursday that would cut nearly $40 billion from the federal food stamp program and require more people to work in order to receive the assistance.

Democrats charged that the bill would cut nearly 4 million Americans from the program — including 170,000 unemployed veterans — and mean 210,000 children will no longer qualify for free meals at schools.

“This legislation is preying on people,” House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, of California, said.

The bill passed 217-210; every Democrat in attendance and 15 Republicans voted against it.

http://newsok.com/house-republicans-approve-deep-cuts-to-food-stamps/article/3884659
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 19, 2013, 10:21:15 PM
Hundreds of snakes found at man's suburban NY home
 
September 19, 2013

SHIRLEY, N.Y. (AP) — An animal-control officer had hundreds of snakes, including two 6-foot Burmese pythons, at his home, where he ran an illegal side business selling them, authorities said Thursday.

There were 850 snakes worth half a million dollars in a detached garage at the Shirley home of Richard Parrinello, including the Burmese pythons, which are illegal in New York state, officials said.

"There is a reason why Burmese pythons are illegal," said Suffolk County SPCA Chief Roy Gross, citing the deaths of two young boys in New Brunswick, Canada, who were killed by an African rock python while they slept last month.

http://www.chron.com/news/crime/article/Hundreds-of-snakes-found-at-man-s-suburban-NY-home-4827539.php
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on September 20, 2013, 04:46:05 AM
House Republicans approve deep cuts to food stamps

By Chris Casteel

WASHINGTON — The U.S. House narrowly approved Republican legislation on Thursday that would cut nearly $40 billion from the federal food stamp program and require more people to work in order to receive the assistance.

Democrats charged that the bill would cut nearly 4 million Americans from the program — including 170,000 unemployed veterans — and mean 210,000 children will no longer qualify for free meals at schools.

“This legislation is preying on people,” House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, of California, said.

The bill passed 217-210; every Democrat in attendance and 15 Republicans voted against it.

http://newsok.com/house-republicans-approve-deep-cuts-to-food-stamps/article/3884659


Fuckin' pigs. Who are hurt most buy these cuts are CHILDREN. Fuckin' Pigs.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 20, 2013, 06:28:11 AM
If the nutjobs were noticed, diagnosed and fettered with either forced medications or confinement, it would be a violation of their civil rights. So the rest of us can kiss OUR civil rights good-bye.

You know, there are quite a few people here who have made quite a few 'nutjob' statements over the years.  And all of us know people in RL that we just can't figure out.  People who are introverted are often suspect in Western culture where gregariousness and the ability to run one's mouth 24/7 are close to sacred obligations.  And, as everyone here knows, "nutjobs" included gay people for a long time.  There are radical atheists who will be very quick to tell you that they consider anyone with a religious belief to be delusional.

It is not a "violation of our civil rights" to fail to arrest, imprison and "treat" people on the grounds of not conforming to a norm.  Humankind has a ghastly history of brutality to those who are 'different', including but not limited to burning alive and destruction of the victim's brain via electricity used as "therapy"; when the Nazis started pruning their population they started with the developmentally disabled and yes, the mentally ill.  It's quite likely that some of the people they murdered were undoubtedly potentially dangerous but I doubt anyone would argue today that this form of population 'cleansing' is defensible  --  especially since it's now at a safe distance of several decades.  In St. Joseph (MO) there's a psychiatric museum about the history of mental illness; everyone who thinks that anyone peculiar should be locked up should visit it.

If a noticeable dangerously deranged people slip through the cracks, it's not because of civil rights laws.  And it shouldn't be in the least surprising considering the loss of community in the Western world and especially in the US.  People literally don't know their neighbors anymore and sometimes not even family members; so mental illness is now able to fly under the radar until it reaches a lethal level, just as physical illnesses have long been able to do.  
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 20, 2013, 09:23:31 AM
And the beat goes on.
The next time some poor misunderstood badly raised unloved guy on Twinkies shoots up an office or runs his car into a crowd or slips some poison in the church supper's potato salad, we'll hear the same weeping and wailing about why it happened.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: morrobay on September 20, 2013, 10:52:56 AM
Typhoon hits Fukushima and weakens containment even more

By JG Vibes
September 18, 2013

On Tuesday, the operator of the Fukushima nuclear power plant said that over 1,000 tons of contaminated water was dumped into the sea after a typhoon hit the area.

Typhoon Man-yi hit Japan on Monday, causing heavy rains and uncontrollable floods.

“Workers measured the radioactive levels of the water collected in the enclosure walls, pumping it back into tanks when the levels were high,” said a TEPCO official.

“Once finding it was mostly rain water they released it from the enclosure, because there is a limit on how much water we can store.”

The Tokyo Times reported that:

 

The utility said the rainwater was discharged from barriers at seven locations and contained strontium 90, which can cause bone cancer if ingested. The beta radiation given off by the strontium did not exceed the government’s limit of 30 becquerels per liter, it said.

Tepco said the radiation level of the water overall, including strontium 90, which accounted for about half of the beta ray emissions, maxed out at 24 becquerels per liter.

In areas where water samples were highly toxic, however, Tepco took a different approach and transferred it elsewhere through makeshift pumps. One of those areas contained rainwater that was emitting 170,000 becquerels per liter, far higher than allowed.

Additionally, both TEPCO and the UN continue to raise the acceptable levels of radiation, so just because the government says its healthy, doesn’t mean that it actually is.

This is still small when compared to the 300 tons of contaminated groundwater that has been leaking into the sea every day for years.

 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 20, 2013, 11:44:43 AM
Not that there is anything that can be done, but is this site being monitored only by Japan?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 20, 2013, 01:44:29 PM
.... People who are introverted are often suspect in Western culture where gregariousness and the ability to run one's mouth 24/7 are close to sacred obligations.  ......  
   This post, in its entirety, really spoke to the dilemmas we have, and the regular cruelties of the present and past. Including the decline of family and friendship relationships preventing any sensible warnings.
  All of it spoke better than I ever could.  I just quoted the above, as there are few who would have said that part. People ARE anti-introvert, and we are tending towards being an extrovert-blob society, easily manipulated.  Towards what, I do not know.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 20, 2013, 02:34:15 PM
And the beat goes on.
The next time some poor misunderstood badly raised unloved guy on Twinkies shoots up an office or runs his car into a crowd or slips some poison in the church supper's potato salad, we'll hear the same weeping and wailing about why it happened.

How do you know it won't be you?
One in four people suffer from mental illness at some time in their lives..
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 20, 2013, 02:45:49 PM
People may be introverted... we used to call it shy but the psych-experts have to have a less plain talk label... but no more these days than ever. These days ,more  are stupid and lazy, not to mentioned entitled. So called "social" media is what passes for human interaction, even within families. Anyone who doesn't know a son or brother or father is "disturbed" is either not paying attention or in denial. It may be more more difficult with neighbors, since most people don't have interaction, except in the negative, with those who live next door or down the block. Co-workers fall between those two groups, but even then, people usually have some idea someone's a little "off." Of course, in all circumstances, it is not polite or politically correct to mention it.

Believe me, if these mass murderers were women or teenage girls, something would have been done about it already.

But, sigh, boys will be boys and they are more aggressive than girls.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 20, 2013, 03:01:12 PM
It's one thing to be introverted and another if you admit that you "hear voices".  I think that's an obvious red flag and your right to "bear arms" should be immediately revoked.  I mean you can lose your driver's licence if your doctor determines you are an alcoholic.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 20, 2013, 03:49:40 PM
How do you know it won't be you?
One in four people suffer from mental illness at some time in their lives..


Mental illness is the excuse we give everyone who doesn't "fit in." There is a mental illness category for everything.

And it won't happen to me because
1) I'm female and females do not murder groups of people
and
2) if I ever put a bullet in someone, they will see it coming and deserve it and I won't pretend I didn't mean it.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 20, 2013, 03:51:36 PM
It's one thing to be introverted and another if you admit that you "hear voices".  I think that's an obvious red flag and your right to "bear arms" should be immediately revoked.  I mean you can lose your driver's licence if your doctor determines you are an alcoholic.

Gee, not here. And losing your license sure doesn't mean you stop driving.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 20, 2013, 03:55:15 PM
NOT going back! Why does she have to defend her decision?


Amanda Knox on Retrial: 'Everything Is at Stake'
ABC News

American student Amanda Knox on Friday defended her decision not to return to Italy for a new appeals trial over the 2007 killing of her British roommate, Meredith Kercher

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/amanda-knox-retrial-stake-20315901
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 20, 2013, 04:07:23 PM
NOT going back! Why does she have to defend her decision?


Amanda Knox on Retrial: 'Everything Is at Stake'
ABC News

American student Amanda Knox on Friday defended her decision not to return to Italy for a new appeals trial over the 2007 killing of her British roommate, Meredith Kercher

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/amanda-knox-retrial-stake-20315901

Her Italian ex-boyfriend doesn't have that choice unfortunately.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 20, 2013, 04:46:54 PM
Perhaps he should have moved.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on September 20, 2013, 05:14:56 PM

Mental illness is the excuse we give everyone who doesn't "fit in." There is a mental illness category for everything.

And it won't happen to me because
1) I'm female and females do not murder groups of people
and
2) if I ever put a bullet in someone, they will see it coming and deserve it and I won't pretend I didn't mean it.

What about if the voices tell you to?
To say that you could never become mentally ill is like saying you will never get pneumonia.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 20, 2013, 06:06:28 PM
Since I don't hear voices, that's not a problem. If someone IS hearing voices, I suggest they seek help immediately, not that it will make any difference, but at least there will be a record of it and someone to blame.

I've been thinking about your "1 in 4" statistic and I think it's bull.
Just for instance, let's take my family. There's me, my two sisters and 7 maternal cousins. (We were not raised around my father's family, so I don't have much of an idea what has happened with them the last 50 years or so, although a cousin from that side got in touch a couple years back and brought me up to date.) In the next generation, my sisters and I have 4 biological and 5 adopted children. (Not going to get in to the cousins since they're all Catholic and have flocks of kids. And I'm not going to discuss adopted kids because, contrary to popular belief, there is a HUGE difference between biological and adopted children raised in the same family and that difference is genetics.) Of the 4 bio-kids, there are 9 (third generation) grandchildren. Without talking about the add-ons, that's 23 adult people. I don't know what happened to us but nary a one has been institutionalized in a jail or mental hospital. As far as I know... and as I said a few posts back, I'm the Mother Confessor... none of us has sought psychiatric help although we have made use of a couple divorce lawyers and I can speak only for my own kids, but we  don't take prescription aids to get through the day or night. If you insist on adding in the cousins' kids and the adoptees, it doesn't change the rate of incarceration or mental health problems one iota... except for my adopted niece who is a drug addict or as everyone likes to say, a recovering addict, which is only a mental health issue when it's needed as an excuse for bad behavior.

Poor Grayson. We're so overdue for our 1 in 4, we should just lock him up now and throw away the key.


And Igot the pneumonia shot two years ago.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 20, 2013, 10:36:21 PM
 :D

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/putin-dog_zps4618c3ab.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on September 20, 2013, 11:01:31 PM
:D

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/putin-dog_zps4618c3ab.jpg)


I feel sorry for the dog. Looking like that Evil man is sad.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on September 21, 2013, 12:24:13 AM
Doodler, how very lucky you and  your family have been.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: tfferg on September 21, 2013, 04:42:53 AM
Exactly. Here's hoping to an end of the Pharisee era, having begun perhaps in 1978, or at the end of the Second Vatican Council, for at least a little while since it will always return sometime. May he live healthily and long.



This evening's news is of a Melbourne priest who was excommunicated by the pope in May. The priest openly supports the ordination of women and same-sex marriage.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 21, 2013, 06:34:26 AM
What about if the voices tell you to?
To say that you could never become mentally ill is like saying you will never get pneumonia.

In a way, mental illness is like suicide in that people still want to believe that "it won't happen in our family".  So many people never get any help from professionals or from their own families and if they're not violent, who notices?  It's easy to imagine that a problem can be solved via a good talking-to or a slap upside the head; and if no troubled person in a family has ever been treated, then 'it doesn't happen here' is an automatic option. 

I assume that's why people in politics don't openly seek help; don't want to be on the record as being tainted with what a lot of people still deem weakness.  Which might answer a lot of questions, come to think of it.   >:D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 21, 2013, 11:39:34 AM
Doodler, how very lucky you and  your family have been.

Absolutely. Generation after generation of luck. Probably has nothing to do with being taught, and teaching the next generation, that you have to be strong and face up to your disappointments and accept that you and you alone are responsible for your own happiness and unhappiness. Knowing that shit happens to everyone many times, but you have to fight through it, learn from it and go on with your life. Figuring out that it is okay to cry, even to whine, for a short time, but then you have to let it go because it's a temporary situation and won't matter to anyone, including yourself, in a hundred years. Realizing that taking a pill or a drink or paying someone to say "There, there, it's not your fault" doesn't change anything. You're right. It's all about luck.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 21, 2013, 11:48:04 AM
In a way, mental illness is like suicide in that people still want to believe that "it won't happen in our family".  So many people never get any help from professionals or from their own families and if they're not violent, who notices?  It's easy to imagine that a problem can be solved via a good talking-to or a slap upside the head; and if no troubled person in a family has ever been treated, then 'it doesn't happen here' is an automatic option. 

I assume that's why people in politics don't openly seek help; don't want to be on the record as being tainted with what a lot of people still deem weakness.  Which might answer a lot of questions, come to think of it.   >:D

Ninety percent of "mental illness" IS weakness. It is coddling. It is treated, but never cured, with a pill. And of course, there is no way to make people take their pills. The other ten percent is actually a physical illness or "imbalance," also treated with a pill and again, there is no way to make people take their pills. People have to learn to get along, to survive, with PHYSICAL issues, why are mental ones any different? If you have a communicable disease, you are isolated. But if you have a mental problem, you're free to inflict on everyone in your world.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 21, 2013, 02:13:13 PM
Ninety percent of "mental illness" IS weakness. It is coddling. . . But if you have a mental problem, you're free to inflict on everyone in your world.

This is my last post on the subject: I rest my case.  

I come from a family where mental illness is an embarrassment that people would never even talk about, and that's no more constructive than dismissal on the grounds of "coddling".  Both types of family cultures are bombs waiting to go off, in more ways than one.

http://www.stjosephmuseum.org/glore.htm
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 21, 2013, 02:24:06 PM
Perhaps instead of waiting for a bomb to go off, it might be best to detatch the fuse. If mental illness is a problem in a family, members of it should not produce another generation. Genetics has a way of trumping environment time and time again.


The Chicago woman whose 3 year old grandson was shot in the face in the park on Thursday night said it was time for parents to stop being afraid of their children.
Amen to that.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bentgyro on September 21, 2013, 05:23:27 PM
When I was young my cousins and I used to joke to each other the old adage
"Everyone in the world is crazy, except thee and me and I am starting to wonder about thee!"
 ;)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 22, 2013, 10:48:32 AM
North Dakota town ready for trouble as white supremacists stake claims

By Dave Thompson
 
BISMARCK, North Dakota (Reuters) - Grant County Sheriff Steve Bay is ready for fireworks if clashes break out between a band of neo-Nazi white supremacists and protesters determined to keep them from taking over the tiny North Dakota town of Leith.
 
With a population of just two dozen in a mostly white county, Leith is an attractive destination for members of the U.S. National Socialist Movement, who recently revealed that they are joining plans to turn the disintegrating town into an all-white enclave.
 
Group members plan to be in town on Sunday and Monday to introduce themselves to the community in what their organization's leader, Jeff Schoep, calls an "act of good will and faith."
 
"We have every intention of legally assuming control of the local government," Schoep said in a statement.
 
The group is America's largest neo-Nazi organization, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks hate groups.
 
According to the center, for more than a year, white supremacist activist Craig Cobb has been buying up properties in Leith and inviting his fellow supremacists to move in and set up a "Pioneer Little Europe," as some supporters have called it.
 
In an interview with WXMB-TV in Bismarck, Cobb said he had gotten a lot of offers to buy up land from what he termed like-minded people who believe white people should not be punished for wanting to live near each other.
 
"It's fine for all these other minorities, but not us," he said in the televised interview. "If you merely speak about it, you're going to be defamed in this country."
 
Schoep said that the visitors would inspect the new property, raise ceremonial flag poles, and hold a town meeting and a news conference.
 
"We know that opinion is divided in the town and in the media," Schoep said in the statement, adding that the trip was "a symbolic gesture of good will and faith."
 
Schoep will be met by a grassroots group organized through social media to protest the National Socialists' presence in the time. Organizers are hoping several hundred will attend.
 
"We are planning a true grassroots peaceful protest to demonstrate that we are united in a stance against hatred, violence and prejudice," reads a statement by UnityND, an anti-racism group organizing the protest, on its website. "Join us as we take to main street rural America to fight against racism."
 
Sheriff Bay said does not expect any trouble to break out among the 350 people expected at the event and protest, but he is prepared.
 
He has his officers, members of the North Dakota Highway Patrol and others coming to Leith on Sunday to help in crowd control.
 
"Both sides say they plan on having their demonstrations," Bay said. "They have both indicated to me that they will be peaceful demonstrations. They may be a little loud, but peaceful."
 
Cobb's plans were revealed in August after the Montgomery, Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center published a report detailing his land purchases in Leith, which is located in a county that is 97 percent white.
 
The center's report also cited county tax and property records showing that other leading supremacists, in addition to the National Socialists, had followed his lead, including Tom Metzger, leader of the White Aryan Resistance, and Alex Linder, who runs the Vanguard News Network, an online forum for the neo-Nazis.



http://news.yahoo.com/north-dakota-town-ready-trouble-white-supremacists-stake-120240693.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on September 23, 2013, 07:58:07 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2429784/Terror-Kenya-Massacre-mall-ablaze-Islamic-terrorists-blew-Fierce-gunfire-heard-inside-Kenyan-shopping-centre-militants-holding-dozens-hostages.html


I honestly think the world is going to hell, I really do!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on September 23, 2013, 08:15:08 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/us/obama-to-attend-memorial-service-for-victims-of-navy-yard-shooting.html?_r=0


And President Obama, mad as hell!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 23, 2013, 09:09:42 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/us/obama-to-attend-memorial-service-for-victims-of-navy-yard-shooting.html?_r=0


And President Obama, mad as hell!

I'm glad somebody is.  What predictable treacle these regular shootings attract.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on September 23, 2013, 09:14:26 AM
Like he said something has to be done, it just has to be!  I honestly feel his hands are tied, which is incredible.  He is the frigging President!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 23, 2013, 05:34:10 PM
John Kerry said the Kenya terrorists were, and I quote
"... ruthless and completely reckless."
I guess they haven't yet received the newest addition of the Universal Law of Terrorism manual.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on September 24, 2013, 06:38:37 PM
Why are piglets sent to slaughterhouses?

(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w197/oilgun/Miscellany/yoda-the-piglet-01_zps7a5c8941.jpg)


Piglet rescued after fall from slaughterhouse-bound truck
Animal sanctuary adopted the piglet, now named Yoda

Falling off a transport truck may be the best thing that could have happened to a piglet who was on his way to be slaughtered, but will now live the rest of his life in an animal sanctuary.    

Last Wednesday evening, Quebec provincial police found the month-old piglet wandering along Highway 30 near Brossard.

It seems he had tumbled from a truck that was taking him to a farm, where he would be prepared for slaughter.

"The people who were following that trailer saw the piglet sneak through a hole and fall off the trailer," says Sûreté du Québec spokeswoman, Joyce Kemp.

Kemp says police called animal control officers, who came to pick up the piglet.


Brenda Bronfman from the Wishing Well animal sanctuary says the piglet had some scrapes an bruises when he fell from a truck heading to the slaughterhouse, but is otherwise unhurt. (Facebook)

Through an online network of animal lovers, the piglet ended up getting a ride to the Wishing Well animal sanctuary north of Toronto.

Brenda Bronfman — who is originally from Westmount and opened the sanctuary two years ago — named him Yoda.

"He just loves to crawl into people's laps and be held. He's a little angel," says Bronfman.

Bronfman says Yoda has a few bumps and scrapes, but the vet gave him a clean bill of health last night.

She says Yoda is doing everything a little pig should be doing, and she's even bought him a little sweater to keep him warm.

The Wishing Well Sanctuary permanently adopts animals, meaning that Yoda never has to leave the farm.

"He's just going to live the rest of his, god willing, long life. And will be happy with the other pigs and all the attention. There is always somebody on the farm, and he will just be loved for the rest of his natural life," says Bronfman.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/piglet-rescued-after-fall-from-slaughterhouse-bound-truck-1.1866257
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 26, 2013, 04:40:52 AM
Deadly flesh-eating 'Krokodil' drug hits the Valley

By: Pete Suratos


PHOENIX - It’s a deadly drug out of Russia that’s now hit the Valley.

"In the 12 years that I've been doing substance abuse and prevention education, it's probably the most destructive drug I've ever seen,” said Shelly Mowrey, a substance abuse and prevention expert in the Valley.”

They call the flesh-eating drug “Krokodil.” Mowrey says it started in Siberia in 2002 and quickly spread across Russia’s transient and prostitute populations

"What they started noticing was all these horrendous, flesh-eating types of wounds on people,” said Mowrey.

It’s a deadly mixture of codeine, red phosphorous, iodine, and paint thinner. Users of the drug see their skin turn green, bumpy, and scaly.


http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_phoenix_metro/central_phoenix/Deadly-flesh-eating-Krokodil-drug-hits-the-Valley#ixzz2fzh9zMDL

If you Google Image search "Krokodil" you can see what it does to the body, but bear in mind, the pics are disturbing.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 26, 2013, 06:06:43 AM
If the previous pattern set by meth is still operating, law enforcement will chase the purveyors out of cities and congratulate each other on "solving" the problem.  Of course, all they'll do is chase the producers and sellers into rural areas.  Out of sight, out of mind when either marginal or rural populations are concerned.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 26, 2013, 10:13:36 AM
Since I live in a rural area, I can tell you you have it backwards.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on September 26, 2013, 01:31:34 PM
with apologies to Antoinette Tuff....

911:  What is your emergency?
caller:  Dey dis strange crooky-face man done come in here to de Capital Building.  He say he gonna shut down de government, stop food to de hungry, kick old peoples around.
911: Has he identified himself?
caller:  He say he Eric Cantor, and is of de 'Publicans Al-Shaboobs.
911:  Does he have any weapons?
caller:  He got a laptop dat look funny.  He callin somebody called AIPAC, and Bibi, and he say de Logan Act don't never apply to him.
911 : Does he say why he doin dis?
caller:  something about we got to stop medical and food aid to some Palestinians or something.  And he gonna bite de Speaker's hind parts until we stop.
911:  We sending somebody out.  Keep him calm.
caller:  Ok.  Eric, we ain't gonna hate on you, baby.  Just lay flat on de floor, and put yo hands out flat....
caller:  What, can you have a drink of water?  Why sure, honey, just put dat laptop down, before dem helicopters come...Dese 'Publican Shaboobies, dey told you bad, das all.  I'll get de water.

....to be continued.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 27, 2013, 07:49:35 AM
Since I live in a rural area, I can tell you you have it backwards.

I live in a rural area too, and I can tell you I have it exactly right. Whether it's something people like hearing is another matter.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on September 27, 2013, 10:43:29 AM
You always think people are ignoring "facts" when they disagree with you. Around here, people have a habit of reporting things to the cops rather than sitting on their behinds and ho-humming about the world going to hell. One of our local newscasts has summaries and photos of the area's "most wanted" a couple times a week and they are usually picked up because of tips on their whereabouts the same day or day after they're featured. Bath salts were banned several years ago, and the shops that sold them shut down, long before I heard anything about it on the national news. The manufacturing of meth has pretty much moved out of here because there were so many busts... instead of individual stories, they were just listed in one report (again on the news,) and I don/t think I've heard about any meth labs being found in the last couple months. Last week there were two fatal car crashes within the same block inside the "city" limits and there's already an investigation to see what changes, if any, are needed in the area. Perhaps it's different in THIS rural area because we're in the South and people are interested in their surroundings... nosy, if you will. Problems are dealt with right away rather than waiting to see if the state or feds have any ideas or want to fund it. Oh, and on the interstate, locals move over so people coming up the on ramps can get on easily.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on September 27, 2013, 04:38:02 PM
Judge legalizes same-sex marriage in New Jersey; Christie vows to appeal

By  Salvador Rizzo/The Star-Ledger   

A state judge today ruled to legalize same-sex marriage in New Jersey, saying gay couples would be denied federal benefits if the state kept allowing only civil unions.

Superior Court Judge Mary Jacobson granted an emergency request by six gay couples, ordering state officials to begin officiating same-sex marriages on Oct. 21.

"Same-sex couples must be allowed to marry in order to obtain equal protection of the law under the New Jersey constitution," the judge wrote in a 53-page opinion.

But Gov. Chris Christie, who opposes gay marriage, vowed today to appeal the ruling all the way to the state Supreme Court.


http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/09/nj_superior_court_gay_marriage_ruling.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bentgyro on September 28, 2013, 10:53:48 AM
^^^^^^
Does flogging a dead horse come to mind? :(
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on September 28, 2013, 12:41:50 PM
But Gov. Chris Christie, who opposes gay marriage, vowed today to appeal the ruling all the way to the state Supreme Court.

In the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy I'd temporarily forgotten how much I loathe Chris Christie.

The governor is entitled to his personal opinion on same-sex marriage, but when the state legislature, presumably speaking for the people of New Jersey, passes a bill legalizing same-sex marriage, he shouldn't allow his personal opinion on a social issue to stand in the way of the people of New Jersey.

He's acting like a brat on this issue, being obstructionist just because he can because he doesn't like same-sex marriage.

I'm glad he's not my governor. Tom Corbett is bad enough.  ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on September 28, 2013, 12:46:35 PM
I'm glad he's not my governor. Tom Corbett is bad enough.  ::)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Corbett,_Space_Cadet

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on September 28, 2013, 02:03:11 PM
The governor is entitled to his personal opinion on same-sex marriage, but when the state legislature, presumably speaking for the people of New Jersey, passes a bill legalizing same-sex marriage, he shouldn't allow his personal opinion on a social issue to stand in the way of the people of New Jersey.

He's acting like a brat on this issue, being obstructionist just because he can because he doesn't like same-sex marriage.

What we hear in weeks (hopefully not months) to come might illustrate why "civil unions", useful in 2008 for politicians who opposed same-sex marriage but wanted to appear all progressive-y, are a stopgap measure at best

On August 2nd, Christie had filed a brief defending New Jersey's Civil Union Act of 2006.  Slate referred to it as " the most incoherent defense of heterosexual supremacy yet" and compared it to "a student paper written during an all-nighter".


Christie's first argument was that civil unions are sufficient: the language, reasoning of Windsor [Windsor v. United States] all mandate that civil union partners are entitled to the same federal benefits as married couples" and that the lawsuit was therefore "unripe". (pg 8).  The "same as" wording, of course, emphasizes the separate-but-equal distinction that the institution of civil unions makes between same-sex and opposite-sex couples.   The second argument is that federal post-Windsor policies are "in flux and non-uniform" (a statement repeated later in the brief) and the third is that the lawsuit should have made the Federal government the defendant because the Feds could not "refuse to extend marital benefits to civil union couples without running afoul of constitutional principles, violating the historic practice of deferring to state-law policy decisions concerning domestic relations, and ignoring precedent regarding essence and labels.  (emphasis added)

Christie also argued that Federal law could not trump a provision of the New Jersey state constitution on the basis of "the vagaries of federal policy or the actions of federal officials over whom the State has no control."  Christie also described the defendants' position as New Jersey's "presumptively rational decision to reserve the name of marriage for heterosexual couples."

The brief spends several pages arguing that civil unions convey the same rights as legal marriages, but later notes (p. 28) that "there does not yet appear to be a uniform federal policy regarding the extension of federal benefits to civil union spouses".  And after quoting that US v. Rivera (pg 25) regarding the unimportance of labels ("Shakespeare wondered what's in a name?; for purposes of federal criminal law the answer is 'nothing'"), but later (pg 44), quoted Lewis v Harris (2006 and 2010) as stating that "the State's presumptively rational decision to reserve the name of marriage for heterosexual couples is still valid".  It also uses Lewis to point out the "reality that the shared societal meaning of marriage -- passed down through the common law into our statutory law -- has always been the union of a man and a woman."

I'd assume this will be the basis for Christie's defense.  It sounds rather flimsy (e.g., 'things should stay the same because they've always been this way') and hints at regarding the Federal government as something akin to a foreign government, and hopefully he won't be pulling any of the cutesy delaying tactics that were used in California.  But he might think it's in his political interest to do just that.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/08/chris_christie_s_legal_brief_on_gay_marriage_pure_nonsense.html

brief at http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/samesex/Garden%20State%20Equality_Defendants%27%20Opposition%20to%20Summary%20Judgment.pdf
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on September 28, 2013, 04:06:15 PM
I'd assume this will be the basis for Christie's defense.  It sounds rather flimsy (e.g., 'things should stay the same because they've always been this way') and hints at regarding the Federal government as something akin to a foreign government, and hopefully he won't be pulling any of the cutesy delaying tactics that were used in California.  But he might think it's in his political interest to do just that.

That thought had occurred to me, too. In the end, New Jersey will get marriage equality, and he can throw up his hands and tell the Right-wing Republicans that it's not his fault.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 01, 2013, 03:28:29 PM
  It is looking to me that there is more than a little whiff of similarity to the disaster caused by differing mobilization timelines before WWI, and the approaching battle over raising the debt ceiling.
  Am working from memory (Barbara Tuchman's The Guns of August), and may get it wrong, but the principle is the same.  As the nations blustered, the technical problem existed of differing timelines for mobilizing troops, to be ready for war, as well as to signal standing their ground.  But Russia had a much longer time needed than Germany or France.  German troops were massed to invade France, but the Tsar was advised that he needed to issue orders for mobilization against Austria-Hungary.  He gave the order to prepare for that front, and then, 2 days later, for the German front.  The reponses were declarations of war.  Even so, Nicholas II was still in touch with his cousin, the Kaiser, both believing they could fend off actual war.  We know what happened there.  Once the blustering starts, it is very difficult to pull back.
 And that seems to be the timeline similarity over the debt ceiling increase this month.  The leaders of the 2 parties have different timelines, each assuming a run-out of time would or could be reversed afterwards.  The GOP has already mobilized, and therein lies the problem.
  As for the government shutdown, which is far less serious, it turns out enough Republicans were willing to join the Dems, but were blocked by Speaker Boehner.  And yet the Speaker originally said he didn't want to play brinksmanship and supported a clean bill.  Why the change? 30 members of the Tea Party?  No way.  It is Eric Cantor who is holding the Speaker hostage, and lusting to take his place.
 And, given Cantor's intimate relationship with the Prime Minister of Israel, if this goes too far, and we suffer a great crash,  I think we would begin to see the unravelling of American support for an Israel governed by right-wing expansionists and funded by real-estate developers.
 Cantor, IMO, is the greatest threat to the safety of our economy and the historic ties between Israel and the U.S. I really believe he is the new Gavril Princeps.  One man.  With a gun. And no conscience.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 01, 2013, 05:01:52 PM
Newt's temper tantrum 17 years ago shut down the government for 28 days and we all survived that. Only 18% of government agencies is affected by THIS shut down and the percentage of affected individuals working for those agecies varies greatly.

According to the nightly national news which I just heard on CBS, only 8 (EIGHT) Republicans deserted to the other party. Only 224 to go. OR... 9 if we're going for a simple majority.

As for the unravelling of the US-Israeli relationship, the bell is tolling. Iran and Syria are pulling the cord.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on October 01, 2013, 05:43:09 PM
Point is why does the U.S. not have a Universal Health Care System?   ???




The Soviet Union implemented universal health care in 1937 and extended equal access to its rural residents in 1969.[2][3] New Zealand created a universal health care system in a series of steps from 1939 to 1941.[2][4] On July 5, 1948, the United Kingdom implemented its universal National Health Service. Universal health care was next introduced in the Nordic countries of Sweden (1955),[5] Iceland (1956),[6] Norway (1956),[7] Denmark (1961),[8] and Finland (1964).[9] Universal health insurance was then implemented in Japan (1961), Saskatchewan (1962) followed by the rest of Canada (1968–1972),[2][10] and twice in Australia (1974 and 1984). Universal national health services were then introduced in the Southern European countries of Italy (1978), Portugal (1979), Greece (1983), and Spain (1986), followed by the Asian countries of South Korea (1989), Taiwan (1995), and Israel (1995). From the 1970s to 1990s, the Western European countries of Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, and Luxembourg expanded their social health insurance systems to provide universal or near-universal coverage, as did the Netherlands (1986 and 2006) and Switzerland (1996).

Most current universal health care systems were implemented in the period following the Second World War as a process of health care reform, intended to make health care available to all, in the spirit of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948, signed by every country doing so. However, the USA did not ratify the social and economic rights sections, including Article 25's right to health.[11]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 01, 2013, 06:20:41 PM
Capitalism and self sufficiency.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on October 01, 2013, 08:31:54 PM
Point is why does the U.S. not have a Universal Health Care System?   ???




The Soviet Union implemented universal health care in 1937 and extended equal access to its rural residents in 1969.[2][3] New Zealand created a universal health care system in a series of steps from 1939 to 1941.[2][4] On July 5, 1948, the United Kingdom implemented its universal National Health Service. Universal health care was next introduced in the Nordic countries of Sweden (1955),[5] Iceland (1956),[6] Norway (1956),[7] Denmark (1961),[8] and Finland (1964).[9] Universal health insurance was then implemented in Japan (1961), Saskatchewan (1962) followed by the rest of Canada (1968–1972),[2][10] and twice in Australia (1974 and 1984). Universal national health services were then introduced in the Southern European countries of Italy (1978), Portugal (1979), Greece (1983), and Spain (1986), followed by the Asian countries of South Korea (1989), Taiwan (1995), and Israel (1995). From the 1970s to 1990s, the Western European countries of Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, and Luxembourg expanded their social health insurance systems to provide universal or near-universal coverage, as did the Netherlands (1986 and 2006) and Switzerland (1996).

Most current universal health care systems were implemented in the period following the Second World War as a process of health care reform, intended to make health care available to all, in the spirit of Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948, signed by every country doing so. However, the USA did not ratify the social and economic rights sections, including Article 25's right to health.[11]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care


I agree with you and I actually think a majority of people here probably do. But the loud minority seems to be in charge.  They won't let us have any sensible discussions about health care nor about guns. No matter how much sense you throw at them, they say it backwards and stand on their heads and pretend they are making sense just to stop any progress. You would think it couldn't go on or get any worse, but so far, no letting up.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 01, 2013, 09:09:25 PM
And finally BO is standing his ground. No deals. Works for me. I've already seen most of the national parks and the monuments AND been to the National Zoo. None of that stuff is going away.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: royandronnie on October 01, 2013, 09:53:07 PM
The problem is that for an awful lot of people, this was their only chance to see--well, my personal example!--the Grand Canyon. They've come from Australia or Britain, etc, and they won't get to come back. Thousands of workers from rangers to maids are suddenly out of work. River running companies rely on these final trips of the year to make their profits, which aren't fat to begin with. And the big parks--GC, Yosemite, and Yellowstone for sure--rely on fees, concessions and lodging for a substantial part of their operating budgets. And for those of us who can, yes, come back later, maybe we forfeit weeks of intense training to hike, or a year's wait for a raft trip or reservations at Phantom Ranch.

I'm not looking to be critical of you, not at all. It meant nothing to me when the gov't shut down back in the Clinton era. But it means something to me now, because I realize, just in the example of one national park, just how many people can be hurt by the utter and intractable stupidity of the Republicans.

PS. I myself got fantastically lucky. For the first time in ten years, I did not have any hiking scheduled in October, but I was insanely lucky and was suddenly able to spend four days there in perfect weather doing dayhikes. Last week.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: royandronnie on October 01, 2013, 09:56:18 PM
What I actually came in here to post was this: I see that YET ANOTHER public figure, in this case the CEO of Barilla Pasta, has decided to discriminate. You know what? As much of an idiot as he is, it's not his homophobic stance that pisses me off. It's the fact that, like nearly every other person who gets caught saying something he actually meant, HE APOLOGIZED.

You know, if you're going to have beliefs, the least you can do is have the courage of your convictions. That's what I despise him most for--he ran like a cockroach in a flashlight beam at the first sign that his "beliefs" might hurt his bottom line.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on October 01, 2013, 10:06:38 PM
We have a forum member here from Australia who had a tour scheduled to see all the National Parks out here in the West starting in San Francisco going east then south and ending up in LA. He is already here, so he cannot cancel. It looks as if the company is not going to give their money back and is taking them somewhere, but not any of the places he or anyone on the tour want to see.

He saves up for two years to come visit, and this is what he is met with.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 01, 2013, 11:26:08 PM
Yep, that is regretable. And the fact that my daughter HAS to go to work and one of my sons has been "furloughed" and most likely neither will be paid when the government gets its shit together is also regretable. But it is time to stop this crap. How many years has this government been without a budget? Every three months we have to listen to these stupid arguments about the debt ceiling but we go on spending millions on non essentials like wars and donations to foreign governments and buying naval vessels the Navy says it doesn't need and funding research into how pythons got into the Everglades. Our infrastructure is falling down. People all over the country are hungry. We are having our fourth RAM clinic this weekend, the fourth in six months. Yep, too bad that one person... or a million people's... vacations are messed up. I hope it pisses people off enough for them to FINALLY make their voices heard. The madder EVERYONE gets, the better.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 02, 2013, 04:03:14 AM
The tour we did in May, took us to eight National Parks, and cost us over £2,000 pounds each. The effect of this lockdown on people taking that tour this week must be awful. For people visiting from abroad, for whom this is the trip of a lifetime, this is neither trivial or funny.
However, Obama does have to stand up to these right wing nutters. I can only hope it gets sorted out soon for everyones sake.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 02, 2013, 06:53:19 AM
The problem is that for an awful lot of people, this was their only chance to see--well, my personal example!--the Grand Canyon. They've come from Australia or Britain, etc, and they won't get to come back.

But that touches on one of the most intractable aspects of the situation: the encouragement and enshrinement of "I've got mine; to hell with everyone else".  The result is a group of elected officials representing about 18% of the US population holding our economy and the economy of much of the world (once we get to about mid-month) hostage.  And that 18% enthusiastically supports their actions because they imagine that they're not among the hostages. 

Ibsen spotlighted this aspect of human nature and its potential to produce monsters in Peer Gynt, with the lines he gives the troll characters.   Essentially, their philosophy is "to hell with the rest of the world" [Rollo May].
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 02, 2013, 06:56:42 AM
We have a forum member here from Australia who had a tour scheduled to see all the National Parks out here in the West starting in San Francisco going east then south and ending up in LA. He is already here, so he cannot cancel. It looks as if the company is not going to give their money back and is taking them somewhere, but not any of the places he or anyone on the tour want to see.

He saves up for two years to come visit, and this is what he is met with.

And the people who work at those national parks, and those who own, manage or work at businesses nearby are pretty much screwed as well.  That applies to just about everything that's closed.

Moreover, the longer this goes on the more people will be hurting financially because everyone's economy at present depends on consumer spending.  That's why "downsizing" has profitable for a very small group but has been corrosive over time for everyone else.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 02, 2013, 10:52:33 AM
Ok, ok, I'm convinced. It is better that everyone in the country be screwed every time the GOP has a stick up its collective ass than getting this thing settled now. Who needs Obamacare or any socialized medicine anyway?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bentgyro on October 02, 2013, 03:37:41 PM
As Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory would say
"Was that sarcasm?"
 ;) :D :D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 02, 2013, 06:09:30 PM
Government Shutdown causes massive effect in Norfolk Area :

*The Great Dismal Swamp....is closed !  In this ghastly turn-away of non-furry primates, there are no targets for mosquitoes and ticks....and they will starve !  Brown bears will be unable to approach cars for treats, and occasionally claw over-enthusiastic, but Darwinially-challenged, children.  Fish will swim about in peace.  And NO beer cans can be tossed onto the roadsides and forest paths !

*Naval Intelligence (and hopefully NCIS) have suffered massive furloughs, which will temporarily end the daily clogging of restaurants on Hampton Boulevard, and cause serious deprivation symptoms for those rushing about, imitating tv shows.  The super-secret grungy wardrobe centers (heavily guarded by marines with semi-automatic guns)....must shut down.

*In related news, the NSA  has been forced to furlough 70% of their employees, which means....at least for now, they will never know if you order pepperoni and sausage on your pizza orders !!!

This is a crisis. It must end !!!!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 02, 2013, 10:57:00 PM
AEG cleared of any responsibility in Jackson's death.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 03, 2013, 02:46:19 AM
Government Shutdown causes massive effect in Norfolk Area :

*The Great Dismal Swamp....is closed !  In this ghastly turn-away of non-furry primates, there are no targets for mosquitoes and ticks....and they will starve !  Brown bears will be unable to approach cars for treats, and occasionally claw over-enthusiastic, but Darwinially-challenged, children.  Fish will swim about in peace.  And NO beer cans can be tossed onto the roadsides and forest paths !

*Naval Intelligence (and hopefully NCIS) have suffered massive furloughs, which will temporarily end the daily clogging of restaurants on Hampton Boulevard, and cause serious deprivation symptoms for those rushing about, imitating tv shows.  The super-secret grungy wardrobe centers (heavily guarded by marines with semi-automatic guns)....must shut down.

*In related news, the NSA  has been forced to furlough 70% of their employees, which means....at least for now, they will never know if you order pepperoni and sausage on your pizza orders !!!

This is a crisis. It must end !!!!


[channeling Rocky the Flying Squirrel] Here's something you'll really like: [/channeling Rocky the Flying Squirrel]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/vladimir-putin-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-8853349.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 03, 2013, 04:55:04 AM
This should inspire some hilarity:

"The Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC) will not issue new payments to states, meaning that any state that has already spent all its federal food assistance money will be without recourse. Utah’s WIC program shut down suddenly on Tuesday, leaving 65,000 residents without nutrition assistance. WIC administrators in Chicago and Wisconsin told Forbes they do not know how much of a funding cushion they have and fear a surprise cutoff to services. In Tennessee, contingency funding may or may not last into next week."

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/10/02/2716921/bill-kristol-shutdown-wic/


and check out this one for additional giggles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEy5i5Yqlgc


(in the interest of perspective) Kristol famously predicted that the Iraq war would be a 'short and easy' one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONm4myKwY8
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on October 03, 2013, 09:40:12 AM
AEG cleared of any responsibility in Jackson's death.

But I hope the lawyers will stop hoarding his estate and meanwhile diminish it before it goes to the Jackson family.

Meanwhile, it probably makes sense that AEG was cleared.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/business/media/concert-promoter-found-not-liable-in-death-of-michael-jackson.html?_r=0
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 03, 2013, 01:03:41 PM
Well, I guess somebody is mad as hell and isn't gonna take it any more.
Shots fired at the Capitol after a car tried to run the auto barrier at the White House.
Two cops injured... one shot, the other after hitting a barrier in his car.
Woman driver either dead or in custody.
Capitol now clear and reopened.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 03, 2013, 02:01:26 PM
[channeling Rocky the Flying Squirrel] Here's something you'll really like: [/channeling Rocky the Flying Squirrel]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/vladimir-putin-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-8853349.html
  Vladimir Vladimirovich is a piece of work.  He has dissidents in the UK poisoned, but calls Edward Snowden "a strange man", and grants asylum.
   His biggest tap dance is saying he favors a constitutional monarchy, but can't support the Spanish collateral branch of the Romanovs since the Russian Orthodox Church is still dubious about the DNA results of two successive inquiries into the remains from the slaughter in Ekaterinburg. [There is, in fact, some disinformation there, as the first had 2 children missing and the second conveniently found some remains elsewhere, which were upped to a high probability. Very swift work, there.  Especially since Israeli scientists have discovered how to fake DNA results].  All of this allows him to move towards allowing no checks and balances from a monarchy, and, establishing a Putin dynasty.
 Nobel Peace Prize? Rocky and Bullwinkle have more qualifications.  But we should be careful what we say as this guy has a long reach for bumping people off. Almost as advanced as U.S. intel agencies with dissident reporters and potential whistleblowers.  And we have more exotic secrets to protect, in order to enforce the New World Rule: zero accountability.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 03, 2013, 02:17:31 PM
LOL, that one flew right over like a flock of pigeons.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on October 03, 2013, 05:13:56 PM
  His biggest tap dance is saying he favors a constitutional monarchy, but can't support the Spanish collateral branch of the Romanovs since the Russian Orthodox Church is still dubious about the DNA results of two successive inquiries into the remains from the slaughter in Ekaterinburg.

Sorry, I'm confused here. I thought the R.O.C. had given its stamp of approval to the burial of the remains of Czar Nicholas and Empress Alexandra?  ???
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on October 03, 2013, 05:47:31 PM

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/vladimir-putin-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize-8853349.html


Well, why not. Obama got one for just getting elected.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 03, 2013, 05:55:22 PM
Sorry, I'm confused here. I thought the R.O.C. had given its stamp of approval to the burial of the remains of Czar Nicholas and Empress Alexandra?  ???
 Yeah, Jeff.  There was no doubt of their remains, and they were buried, with full state ceremony, at a cathedral in Moscow. As for those presumed to be the children, I do not know whether they were also interred.  It's not something I followed that closely. At any rate, that ceremony occurred after the first inquiry, which left some doubt whether two of the children were accounted for.  And so, the stubborn refusal of the Church to give up on possible survivors.
  Then, conveniently, a new commission found another site, several years later, accounting for the missing two.  The DNA, there, said to be 98% certain. Where those remains were interred, I don't know. But, what with the dubious, and all-too-convenient discovery of a second site, and debate over the probability of the DNA evidence there, the Church has only grudgingly conceded there were no survivors.  But, I believe that is unofficial acceptance.
 All of this has been to Putin's advantage, especially since public opinion favoring a monarchy has waned.  The whole subject is a mare's nest of improbability and disinformation.  I only brought it up to show the ways of Putin in manipulating the public and the Church.
 I've been a lukewarm student of this issue.  But I tend to believe the Grand Duchess Tatiana was a survivor, and all the clap-trap (the mysterious "Rescuing the Czar" book, of the 1920's, and the phony pretenders, all of it has all been disinformation.
 As it happens, my father's cousin, Admiral Earnest Eller, was a history buff, and the head of our Naval Archives. [He's on Wikipedia]. It's my understanding he favored the survivor theory.  But all of this is nothing but fodder for years of foolishness.  The real issue is Putin.  The guy is a jerk.  At the very least.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 03, 2013, 06:07:40 PM
 Moving right along, with the latest, and now almost routine, shooting in Washington, Orwellian lingo has taken another great leap forward.
 D.C. Police Chief, Cathy Lanier, was unable to say the suspect was pronounced dead.  Four times, she said the subject was "pronounced".
 So, now, is this a matter of convenience for law enforcement? Avoid the word "dead" ? Will there be rallies protesting the Pronouncement penalty for murder?  Will hospitals change their jargon?
 Gosh, words around the world, are running for cover, in hopes of not being ---- pronounced  :P.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on October 03, 2013, 07:37:28 PM
 Yeah, Jeff.  There was no doubt of their remains, and they were buried, with full state ceremony, at a cathedral in Moscow. As for those presumed to be the children, I do not know whether they were also interred.  It's not something I followed that closely. At any rate, that ceremony occurred after the first inquiry, which left some doubt whether two of the children were accounted for.  And so, the stubborn refusal of the Church to give up on possible survivors.

Thanks, Tony. I seem to recall that one or two of the children were unaccounted for at the time of the funeral, but I didn't know the R.O.C. was sticking to the possibility of a survivor or survivors--and I suppose by now descendants.

I agree with you about Putin.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on October 04, 2013, 04:08:04 AM
SHOCKER! Peter Schlessel Takes Over Focus Features

By MIKE FLEMING JR

Another shoe has dropped at Universal Pictures, as former top Sony exec Peter Schlessel has taken the reins of its prestige film label Focus Features in an effort to beef up the company’s output. James Schamus, the bow-tied erudite writer/producer who has run Focus, will leave to produce the 3D boxing movie that will be directed by his regular collaborator, Oscar winning Life Of Pi director Ang Lee. FilmDistrict, which was launched by Schlessel, Graham King and Tim Headington, will have its films absorbed into the new Focus Features. Focus has always had a strong executive team and a good record of profitability under Schamus and Andrew Karpen’s leadership–they won world rights for $6 million for one of Toronto’s most coveted films, the Jason Bateman-directed Bad Words–but it is too early to say what the new structure will be until Schlessel gets settled in January. He will report to Donna Langley, who became Universal Pictures chairman in the recent shakeup that left Adam Fogelson packing, and Jeff Shell in command at the studio with Ron Meyer becoming vice chairman of NBC Universal.

http://www.deadline.com/2013/10/shocker-peter-schlessel-takes-over-focus-features/
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 04, 2013, 01:17:34 PM
D.C. Police Chief, Cathy Lanier, was unable to say the suspect was pronounced dead.  Four times, she said the subject was "pronounced".
 So, now, is this a matter of convenience for law enforcement? Avoid the word "dead" ?

If that's the worst thing that happens when a wingnut starts shooting, I'd take a pass on the linguistic indignation.  Especially if I was in the vicinity.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 04, 2013, 02:44:45 PM
Well, the pronounced woman didn't do any shooting. She didn't have a gun.
Obviously, though, she was a wingnut.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on October 04, 2013, 03:37:47 PM
Man Lights Himself On Fire On National Mall In D.C.
by DAVID BADASH on OCTOBER 4, 2013

A man this afternoon around 4:00 PM ET reportedly lit himself on fire, possibly with gasoline, on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. There are no reports detailing who he is or why he did it. He reportedly is alive and a witness said passersby put the flames out.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/breaking-man-lights-himself-on-fire-on-national-mall-in-d-c-photos/news/2013/10/04/76328#.Uk80BSSsim5
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on October 04, 2013, 04:18:40 PM
Well, the pronounced woman didn't do any shooting. She didn't have a gun.
Obviously, though, she was a wingnut.

I guess, these days,  all "wingnuts" must be killed. I'm surprised they didn't also kill the wingnut's child, just to be on the safe side. ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 04, 2013, 05:04:47 PM
I'd love to hear about any alternatives you have in mind.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on October 04, 2013, 06:45:39 PM
I'd love to hear about any alternatives you have in mind.

Blow out the tires and arrest her.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 04, 2013, 07:37:12 PM
I guess, these days,  all "wingnuts" must be killed. I'm surprised they didn't also kill the wingnut's child, just to be on the safe side. ::)


Blow out the tires and arrest her.

First off, your first post spoke of all wingnuts and the second was specific to the CT woman.
I take it you didn't see any of the videos of her racing around town?

Or for that matter, you didn't see the video of the NY SUV racing away on flatten tires from the motocycle gang (a different incident, not involving cops, but involving uninflated tires.)

I wish you could go on a day's ride-along with cops to see what the job was really like.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 05, 2013, 06:59:11 AM
A lot of fantasies about use of firearms are products of over-consumption of cop shows.   No righteous shooter ever misses his target and hits an innocent bystander in TVland; any more than bullets fired into the air ever hit and kill anyone.  And a person can be shot with blanks at close range and suffer nary a scratch.

This woman tried to ram the White House gates with her car and led the police on a high-speed chase that could have gotten people killed, even if the police hadn't chased her.  She supposedly had "mental health issues", and unstable people are bound to be affected by the current attack in Congress.  But apparently the absolutely worst aspect about this is that someone repeatedly said "pronounced" instead of "pronounced dead".   Now, how could any possible consequences of an insane person attacking the White House come close to measuring up to that?

Of course, in some countries such behavior might be considered perfectly sane.  Who are we to judge?    ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 05, 2013, 07:12:45 AM
"Which plan to fix America’s ailing health care system to do you like more, the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare? That’s the question that correspondents from Jimmy Kimmel Live asked unsuspecting pedestrians on Hollywood Boulevard Monday. As Jimmy Kimmel explained to his audience, 'as you may know Obamacare is just a nickname for the Affordable Care Act, they’re the same thing.'

"Apparently not too many people walking the streets of Hollywood are aware of this fact. Even in liberal Los Angeles, Kimmel’s crew found plenty of people who think Obamacare is 'un-American' but are all for the Affordable Care Act. "

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jimmy-kimmel-asks-people-which-they-prefer-the-affordable-care-act-or-obamacare/

video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 05, 2013, 07:46:55 AM
I only hope to God that "affordable healthcare" covers people with "mental health issues."I
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on October 05, 2013, 07:52:32 AM
A lot of fantasies about use of firearms are products of over-consumption of cop shows.   No righteous shooter ever misses his target and hits an innocent bystander in TVland; any more than bullets fired into the air ever hit and kill anyone.  And a person can be shot with blanks at close range and suffer nary a scratch.

Boy, howdy! And (unless it serves the purpose of the drama) nobody ever needs to reload, either.  ::)

"Which plan to fix America’s ailing health care system to do you like more, the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare? That’s the question that correspondents from Jimmy Kimmel Live asked unsuspecting pedestrians on Hollywood Boulevard Monday. As Jimmy Kimmel explained to his audience, 'as you may know Obamacare is just a nickname for the Affordable Care Act, they’re the same thing.'

"Apparently not too many people walking the streets of Hollywood are aware of this fact. Even in liberal Los Angeles, Kimmel’s crew found plenty of people who think Obamacare is 'un-American' but are all for the Affordable Care Act. "

That's about what I would expect.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on October 05, 2013, 10:33:25 AM
"Which plan to fix America’s ailing health care system to do you like more, the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare? That’s the question that correspondents from Jimmy Kimmel Live asked unsuspecting pedestrians on Hollywood Boulevard Monday. As Jimmy Kimmel explained to his audience, 'as you may know Obamacare is just a nickname for the Affordable Care Act, they’re the same thing.'

"Apparently not too many people walking the streets of Hollywood are aware of this fact. Even in liberal Los Angeles, Kimmel’s crew found plenty of people who think Obamacare is 'un-American' but are all for the Affordable Care Act. "

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jimmy-kimmel-asks-people-which-they-prefer-the-affordable-care-act-or-obamacare/

video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE

That's about what I would expect.


Me as well.  I remember the 2008 voting day, and there were people doing exit poling in heavy Republican areas, asking political questions, and they were getting crazy answers in return.  Things were no better in Democratic areas.   They were asking for politician names and platforms, but were getting a lot of stupid answers.

The one question that got steady answers was "What candidate said "I can see Russia from my house."?   Everyone answered "Sarah Palin", which wasn't correct, it was  Tina Fey as Sarah Palin that said that.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on October 05, 2013, 10:55:12 AM
She did say this:

Quote
Palin responded: "They're our next door neighbors. And you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska."

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/11/18/abc-brings-i-can-see-russia-my-backyard-palin-interview#ixzz2grouB0tH


So evidently Tina Fey was playing that up.

Nor, when given the chance, did Palin deny it in this interview later, when Barbara Walters asked her about it:

Quote
BARBARA WALTERS: On the business of “I can see Russia from my backyard,” what you did say to Charlie Gibson was that there were places in Alaska where one could see Russia. Do you still feel that Alaska’s proximity to Russia from whatever place you can see it, is significant foreign policy experience?

SARAH PALIN: Very significant, and we are a gatekeeper for the continent, so far national security reasons, and for energy independence and resource development reasons, Alaska should be recognized for strategic location on the globe.
Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2009/11/18/abc-brings-i-can-see-russia-my-backyard-palin-interview#ixzz2grph44Zi


And there are quotes from the original interview in which she goes on to talk about perceived problems with Putin, and her supposed ideas of foreign policy. So it's true the SNL quote is what sticks in our minds, but it was based on a set of statements she made in more than one interview.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 05, 2013, 11:37:38 AM
I only hope to God that "affordable healthcare" covers people with "mental health issues."I

Well, the way they are coming out of the woodwork, they'll all have been taken care of by the time Obamacare is really in force.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 05, 2013, 11:46:25 AM


This woman tried to ram the White House gates with her car and led the police on a high-speed chase that could have gotten people killed, even if the police hadn't chased her.  She supposedly had "mental health issues" [quotes because there were no details], and unstable people are bound to be affected by the current attack in Congress.  But apparently the absolutely worst aspect about this is that someone repeatedly said "pronounced" instead of "pronounced dead".   Now, how could any possible consequences of an insane person attacking the White House come close to measuring up to that?



Well, I don't know how many details you need, but she had fallen and suffered a head injury, then suffered from post partum depression and in the last year or so been diagnosed as bi-polar and schizophrenic and was reportedly having a problem dealing with that. Recently, she had several times called her local cops to report that Obama was having her watched. As far as I know, no one has released her blood pressure history.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 05, 2013, 01:39:35 PM

Thanks for the info; I updated my post.  Very thoughtful of you.

In some circles, her fantasy would be taken seriously, fur shurr.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 05, 2013, 01:41:34 PM
Quote
SARAH PALIN: Very significant, and we are a gatekeeper for the continent, so far national security reasons, and for energy independence and resource development reasons, Alaska should be recognized for strategic location on the globe.

So I guess she could see Russia from her gate.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 05, 2013, 02:28:16 PM
Elizabeth Warren speaks out against civic nihilism:

"So Mr. President, to those who have forced us to the brink, to those who rail against a make-believe government, to those who seem to rejoice in anarchy, to those who salivate at the chance to shut down our government because of their extremist views have left them disconnected from the experiences of the American people, it is time to hear a simple message.

"You can do your best to make government look like it doesn't work when you stop it from working.

"You can do your best to make government look paralyzed when you paralyze it.

"You can do your best to make government look incompetent and ineffective through your incompetence, and ineffective through your ineffectiveness.

"But sooner or later, the government will reopen. Because this is a democracy, and this democracy has already rejected your views.

"We have already chosen to do these things together because we all know that we are stronger when we come together. "


http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/why-government-good-elizabeth-warren

video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTxWMkW8s_c
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 05, 2013, 04:13:59 PM
.....  But apparently the absolutely worst aspect about this is that someone repeatedly said "pronounced" instead of "pronounced dead".   Now, how could any possible consequences of an insane person attacking the White House come close to measuring up to that?
   Oh, well.  I guess you never heard of the movie "A Beautiful Life", where a father jokes with his son as they are being transported to the Nazi concentration camps.  Sometimes, when you are powerless against the madness and cruelty in life, focusing on the absurd is all that is left.
  Then, too, an advance in jargon, to describe someone's death, is worthy of mention, and even some gentle prodding can go to stopping it.  Sorry you were offended.

*****
  Doodler, you asked what was anyone supposed to do?  This one question hit me hard.  Her family should have intervened, at the first sign of serious trouble.  I had a mentally ill parent, of danger only to herself, and fought a 20 year war to see her treated and safe.  That's why I have no family now.  My 5 older siblings were ashamed of her, found her inconvenient, and fought me every step of the way.  Since I was the youngest, and arrived when she was 45 years old, she was always, to me, like a troubled grandparent.  I do have this:  She passed on, in peace, at home, at an advanced age.

Families are responsible.  Mine were looking out for themselves.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 05, 2013, 05:00:50 PM
Yes, Tony, families SHOULD accept responsibility (although there are some here who don't like the idea of SHOULD.) However, mentally ill or not, the sick (diseased? injured? wounded?) person also has to accept responsibility and it is a violation of an individual's civil rights to force treatment and/or medication. Confining them against their wills is also a violation of their civil rights. So too bad for society at large. AND, in my opinion, mental health "experts" are just as, if not more, guilty of any crimes committed by mentally ill individuals as the family.

MY experience was with my first husband who was, apparently, mentally ill only in my opinion and that of his family. Trying to burn down his mother's house, blow up his pastor's church, tampering with the brakes of his sister's car were, and I quote, "A cry for help" as we were informed by his medical doctor. A cry that, again, only I and his victims acquaintances could hear. Time and again he was pronounced "competent" by VA and civilian doctors. One of the things I am most grateful for in my life is that I managed to get away, with my children, and raise them without his presence, an opinion they have all agreed with as they met him, individually, once they were adults.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 05, 2013, 08:02:10 PM
A lot of fantasies about use of firearms are products of over-consumption of cop shows.   No righteous shooter ever misses his target and hits an innocent bystander in TVland; any more than bullets fired into the air ever hit and kill anyone.

This comment is really intriguing. Do you have statistics on or maybe links to stories about real life innocent bystanders being hit by bullets from righteous shooters or killed by bullets falling out of the sky?

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 06, 2013, 08:02:35 AM
Well, the way they are coming out of the woodwork, they'll all have been taken care of by the time Obamacare is really in force.

Presumably the people with the guns and mental health issues will have shot themselves, shot other people, or have been shot by the police before Obamacare gets going.
But actually, this is not funny.
For the sake of public safety the US must do something about its care of the mentally ill, and i am not at all sure it shouldn't happen here in the UK too.
When families ask for help for a loved one they should be taken very sriously, not fobbed off with nonsense.l
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 06, 2013, 10:17:26 AM
Why do you mental health experts continue to ignore the fact that there is no way to force someone who "has issues" to seek, accept and continue treatment... as if anything but drugging them is going to "work" anyway? The rights of the single individual, as usual, supercede the rights of society in general. But let's go on blaming it on law enforcement and the family's failure to handle the problem.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 06, 2013, 01:41:50 PM
I wouldn't call myself a mental health expert, except in as much as I have worked with people with mental health problems and learning difficulties, and I have suffered from problems myself.
However, here, at least in theory, people who are at risk of harming themselves or others, are "sectioned" under the Mental Health Act.
Of course it fails all of the time, and people are wandering around in a psychotic state doing all sorts of unspeakable things.
The intention is failed by the lack of money, hospital beds in the system.
It is at least something to aim at.
It is hard to force people to take medication regularly etc. but we must at least try. It is very hard to make people who are too ill to be responsible for their actions, responsible for the outcome if things go badly wrong.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 06, 2013, 02:00:41 PM
So you have no solution either.

I don't give a hoot about people with phobias or quirks or mental health issues that affect no one but themselves... like a fear of clowns or going out of the house or  washing their hands 10 times an hour or having to live by patterns (stand up, turn around to the right three times, tirn to the left twice and then walk out of the room type stuff.)

I'm concerned about the number of people who "go off the deep end" and kill multiple "innocent bystanders" even though other people are aware they have a serious problem. No doctor is going to risk his/her livelihood by seeking to have someone committed or "sectioned" unless forced to by the family or law enforcement. And families are more likely to give up, ignore or deny the problem than force a doctor to act while law enforcement has "real" crimes to take care of and claim a person's mental health issues are not their problem unless a crime has been committed. Everyone sits around worrying about hypothetical "it could happen to me" possibilities while it happens to other people.
 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on October 06, 2013, 04:22:23 PM
On a lighter note!





Oh, happy day! Glee star Dot-Marie Jones is engaged to her longtime girlfriend Bridgett Casteen! The three-time Emmy-nominated actress proposed to Casteen near Disneyland Resort's Sleeping Beauty Castle in Anaheim, Calif., on Friday, Oct. 4.



Jones, 49, revealed the engagement at a Q&A session during Anaheim Gay Days, an annual weekend event that draws in LGBT allies and visitors to the amusement park.



"It's the happiest day of my life," the actress told The Advocate. "I never thought I'd find somebody that is so loving and kind." The happy news is the second Glee engagement just this week! On Oct. 4, Naya Rivera's rep confirmed to Us Weekly that the actress got engaged to rapper Big Sean.


Jones is most known for her role as gym teacher Shannon Beiste on the FOX series since 2010. She's also a 15-time world and 6-time national arm-wrestling champion. This will be the first marriage for the star. Casteen, 39, has two children from a previous marriage.

Read more: http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/dot-marie-jones-is-engaged-glee-star-set-to-wed-longtime-girlfriend-bridgett-casteen-2013610#ixzz2gz0ewdYT
Follow us: @usweekly on Twitter | usweekly on Facebook
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 06, 2013, 05:36:40 PM
So you have no solution either.

I don't give a hoot about people with phobias or quirks or mental health issues that affect no one but themselves... like a fear of clowns or going out of the house or  washing their hands 10 times an hour or having to live by patterns (stand up, turn around to the right three times, tirn to the left twice and then walk out of the room type stuff.)

I'm concerned about the number of people who "go off the deep end" and kill multiple "innocent bystanders" even though other people are aware they have a serious problem. No doctor is going to risk his/her livelihood by seeking to have someone committed or "sectioned" unless forced to by the family or law enforcement. And families are more likely to give up, ignore or deny the problem than force a doctor to act while law enforcement has "real" crimes to take care of and claim a person's mental health issues are not their problem unless a crime has been committed. Everyone sits around worrying about hypothetical "it could happen to me" possibilities while it happens to other people.
 

I don't think we are far apart on this one, Sherry,
Of course most people with mental health issues just suffer, affecting no one but themselves, and / or their families, as they would with any illness.
Most are not "the mad axeman," the problem is in delineating the ones that are, and getting them safely into secure units.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 06, 2013, 06:18:31 PM
You're right. Most people have some little... and not so little... issues and bug-a-boos throughout their lifetime.

However, I'm pretty sure we're worlds apart on how to deal with the problem and if there could ever be a "cure" for these serious illnesses.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 10, 2013, 07:25:58 AM

  Then, too, an advance in jargon, to describe someone's death, is worthy of mention, and even some gentle prodding can go to stopping it.  Sorry you were offended.


Actually, it was more amusing, in the same sense as hearing people wax distraught over punctuation errors.  What you were seeing was most likely workplace jargon: no matter what the setting and circumstances, certain things about workplaces tend to be consistent.


This just in from the Ministry of Things People [and Monty Python] Never Thought To Worry About:

IRS official says she never consorted with devil

WASHINGTON (AP) — For the record, the Internal Revenue Service official in charge of implementing a big part of the new health care law tells Congress she has never knowingly consorted with the devil.

And she cannot fly.

Sarah Hall Ingram was testifying before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Wednesday when Congressman Gerald Connolly tried to mock Republican efforts to demonize her. The Virginia Democrat asked Ingram several unorthodox questions about witchcraft as part of the hearing.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/irs-official-says-she-never-consorted-devil
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 10, 2013, 08:52:01 AM
A live mic caught some unguarded remarks about the infotainment media's focus on 'compromise' with hostage taking


Rand Paul, to Senator Mitch McConnell:

McConnell:  I'm all wired up here, um

Paul:  I just did CNN and I just go over and over again 'We're willing to compromise.  'We're willing to negotiate.'  I think... I don't think they poll tested we won't negotiate.  I think it's awful for them to say that over and over again

McConnell:  Yeah, I do too and I, and I just came back from that two hour meeting with them and that, and that was basically the same view privately as it was publically.

Paul:  I think if we keep saying 'We wanted to defund it.  We fought for that and that we're willing to compromise on this', I think they can't, we're gonna, I think... well I know we don't want to be here, but we're gonna win this I think.

http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/home/ticker/Live-mic-catches-Senators-McConnell-and-Paul-talking-strategy-226238531.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on October 10, 2013, 05:18:12 PM
Judge refuses to delay start of same-sex marriage in New Jersey


GEOFF MULVIHILL | Associated Press

 A state judge refused Thursday to delay the start of same-sex marriage in New Jersey until a legal appeal can be settled, denying efforts by Gov. Chris Christie’s administration to put off gay weddings.

As it stands, the state must grant marriage licenses for same-sex couples starting Oct. 21. But the administration of Christie, a Republican who is considered a possible presidential candidate for 2016, was expected to appeal the denial of the stay to a higher court.

“Granting a stay would simply allow the state to continue to violate the equal protection rights of New Jersey same-sex couples, which can hardly be considered a public interest,” Judge Mary Jacobson wrote.

The Christie administration had already asked the state Supreme Court to weigh in Jacobson’s initial decision last month that the state had to allow gay marriage.



http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2013/10/judge-refuses-to-delay-start-of-same-sex-marriage-in-new-jersey/
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on October 10, 2013, 06:25:25 PM
Judge refuses to delay start of same-sex marriage in New Jersey


GEOFF MULVIHILL | Associated Press

 A state judge refused Thursday to delay the start of same-sex marriage in New Jersey until a legal appeal can be settled, denying efforts by Gov. Chris Christie’s administration to put off gay weddings.

As it stands, the state must grant marriage licenses for same-sex couples starting Oct. 21. But the administration of Christie, a Republican who is considered a possible presidential candidate for 2016, was expected to appeal the denial of the stay to a higher court.

“Granting a stay would simply allow the state to continue to violate the equal protection rights of New Jersey same-sex couples, which can hardly be considered a public interest,” Judge Mary Jacobson wrote.

The Christie administration had already asked the state Supreme Court to weigh in Jacobson’s initial decision last month that the state had to allow gay marriage.

Yay!

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 11, 2013, 09:33:10 AM
http://drunkdialcongress.org
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on October 11, 2013, 12:21:28 PM
They mentioned that website this morning on NPR Morning Edition. Sounds like it should be useful!

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 12, 2013, 06:13:05 AM
They mentioned that website this morning on NPR Morning Edition. Sounds like it should be useful!

If the site urged them to get drunk and then drive to the Capitol to air their grievances personally, we'd get quite a lot of natural selection accomplished.  Maybe they all visited www.excusesforgoingoffthewagon.com first.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 12, 2013, 07:26:55 AM
The lack of yesterday's rain should have been a tipoff; but then you never know -- Obama's Secret Climate Council could have stopped it for an hour or so


Viral photo from Beltway trucker protest actually from an event last May

"A picture circulating in some corners of the Internet shows a huge convoy of tractors, tractor trailers and pickup trucks seemingly bound for Capital Beltway as part of a trucker protest.

"The only problem? The photo was actually taken in May at a Make-a-Wish Foundation fundraiser in Lancaster, Penn."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr-gridlock/wp/2013/10/11/viral-photo-from-beltway-trucker-protest-actually-from-an-event-last-may/


When yesterday's event was being promoted, the organizers vowed that the truckers would drive only the 55 mph speed limit and block lanes so that no one could pass.  That provoked considerable hilarity among people who drive on the Beltway regularly.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on October 12, 2013, 07:33:34 AM
 :D  :D  :D

Yep!

Supposedly four trucks were stopped and given warnings by the Virginia State Police.

I guess most truckers for some reason actually prefer to use their vehicles to make a living.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 12, 2013, 07:38:33 AM

I don't know much about the trucking industry, but was wondering who would pay for all that fuel if the event had come off.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on October 12, 2013, 07:42:08 AM
Owner-operators would pay for their own as always, and theoretically the trucking companies would pay that for their hired truckers, but they would probably look at such a non-profitable use of their trucks rather dimly. And they would have a great deal of say over how those trucks would be used, hirees going against those rules would lose their jobs quickly.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 12, 2013, 03:40:56 PM
 Current events being what they are, it's always good to see something good going on.  This is a great clip of a baby and 2 dogs.  The dogs can walk but are wanting to accomodate the human pup, and so, crawl. Especially cool is the way the younger dog seems to laugh, and then the baby looks back, annoyed.
  Maybe the wigs in D.C. should study this, as an example of species interaction (Dems vs. GOP vs. bat-crazy GOP).
  Otherwise, it's a current event, in that there's more going on in the world  :) ?

http://youtu.be/GlC_oZXsfFg
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 19, 2013, 05:03:05 AM
Well, it’s been an interesting couple of weeks, news-wise, to put it mildly.

Not only has the threat of a possible global recession been avoided, but those responsible haven’t even the grace to admit their selfish tactics have failed.

The eighteen US Congressional Republicans who brought about the government shutdown by opposing the raising of the debt ceiling, also unsuccessfully attempted to thwart budget proposals to fund the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (or ACA for short) unless it incorporated changes, as stated in the ABC News Online (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-17/congress-passes-debt-ceiling-to-end-us-governmen/5028464):

Barack Obama signs debt ceiling legislation to end US government shutdown

President Barack Obama has signed into law legislation raising the Treasury Department's borrowing authority, officially ending the government shutdown that has crippled the country since October 1.
His signature came hours after the US House of Representatives passed the legislation, the result of a deal that reopens the federal government with a temporary budget until January 15 and extends US borrowing authority until February 7.
Earlier, the Senate passed the bill by 81 votes to 18.

Tea Party Republicans demanded changes to “Obamacare”
Republican Senators Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, two vocal opponents to the deal, said they would not attempt to delay it further.

   “I have no objection to the timing of this vote,” Mr Cruz told reporters.

But that didn't stop Mr Cruz firing another shot at the Senate.

   “The House of Representatives has taken a bold stance listening to the American people,” he said.
    “But unfortunately, the United States Senate has refused to do likewise.”

There seem to be two points here, Senator Cruz:
a) Your reference to the House taking "a bold stance" confuses boldness with acquiescence—why don’t you just admit that you've been defeated?

b) Your opinion that the House, unlike the the Senate, was listening to "the American people" is misguided, as it not only overlooks the fact that the US Senate voted in favour of the legislation 81-18 (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/16/senate-leaders-strike-debt-ceiling-deal-shutdown), with a majority of both Democrats and Republicans, but that the Senate did so before it was passed by the House of Representatives, by 285 votes to 144, with a majority of Democrats (bolstered by a minority of Republicans).

Senator Cruz also said:

“The United States Senate has stayed with the traditional approach of the Washington establishment of maintaining the status quo and doing nothing to respond to the suffering that Obamacare is causing millions of Americans.”

What on earth do you mean, Senator, when you say “millions of Americans suffering” due to the Affordable Care Act?

My understanding is that 95% of Americans (i.e. 32 million) are now insured under the ACA (in comparison to 15% being previously without insurance), including 500,000 newly-insured young adults, and that most people are now more able to afford health care because health insurance costs less.

So what I’d like to know is how can providing affordable health care to those who most need it possibly be seen as causing suffering?

Or have I missed something peculiarly American here?

The LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-government-shutdown-20131017,0,256522.story) summarised the situation as follows:
Republicans had sought the confrontation in hopes that a shutdown and the threat of default would give them leverage to extract concessions from Obama on his signature healthcare law. In the end, the compromise negotiated by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) and Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) made no significant changes in the Affordable Care Act.

The ABC News article I mentioned above also included this statement:

House conservatives backed by the Tea Party movement have thus far thwarted votes on the debt ceiling and on passing a budget, demanding concessions from Mr Obama.
Democrats have refused to allow Republicans to hold those issues to "ransom" with attempts to slash spending or dismantle the president's landmark health insurance reform.

As far as "extracting concessions" and "dismantling" the Affordable Care Act are concerned, it appears, as stated in The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/16/senate-leaders-strike-debt-ceiling-deal-shutdown), that

“The only apparent change to the Affordable Care Act... involves asking the Obama administration to carry out better checks on the incomes of people registering for insurance exchanges.”

Well, that's neither a concession nor a dismantling—it’s plain common sense.

While the Act already incorporates a 5.4% surtax on individual Americans whose gross income exceeds $500,000 ($1 million for married couples filing joint returns) it’s fair that the incomes of people should be checked thoroughly in order to avoid fraudulent claims.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 19, 2013, 06:22:14 AM

Too bad Obama had to resort to the Michael Corleone Strategy but being 'the adult in the room' specifically includes not giving in to irrational tantrums:

(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/talkstocoyotes/MichaelCorleoneObama_zpsd7872eec.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnmIoF_2Q4Y
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 19, 2013, 06:47:22 AM
The eighteen US Congressional Republicans who brought about the government shutdown by opposing the raising of the debt ceiling, also unsuccessfully attempted to thwart budget proposals to fund the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (or ACA for short) unless it incorporated changes, as stated in the ABC News Online (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-17/congress-passes-debt-ceiling-to-end-us-governmen/5028464)

Title 18 of the USC [United States Constitution], Part I, Paragraph 2384 - Seditious conspiracy - If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

In 1994, "fined not more than $20,000" was substituted for "fined".  The 20-year option sounds more fitting.

http://docs.uscode.justia.com/1999/title18/USCODE-1999-title18/pdf/USCODE-1999-title18-partI-chap115-sec2385.pdf

(second bolding added)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 19, 2013, 12:58:07 PM
  Here we go again. The Siberian Times has a story on a virulent new form of the HIV virus, with 20,000 cases so far.  I haven't heard anything about this in our news.
  The Times is in English and easily found on the internet.  Also on Facebook.  I'd give a link, except am clumsy there, and also don't have reliable internet on weekends.
  I hope everybody keeps track of this.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on October 19, 2013, 05:30:25 PM
Here we go again. The Siberian Times has a story on a virulent new form of the HIV virus, with 20,000 cases so far.  I haven't heard anything about this in our news.  The Times is in English and easily found on the internet.  Also on Facebook.  I'd give a link, except am clumsy there, and also don't have reliable internet on weekends.  I hope everybody keeps track of this.

Here is the link, Tony.


http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/news/siberian-alert-on-dangers-of-new-virulent-hiv-strain/
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 19, 2013, 05:39:51 PM
 Thanks, Chuck !  I went back and tried & screwed it up.  Am very grateful you stepped in !
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on October 19, 2013, 05:41:11 PM
You're welcome,  buddy!!!!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 20, 2013, 12:49:03 AM
...The 20-year option sounds more fitting.


 :)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 20, 2013, 02:17:57 PM
http://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/news/siberian-alert-on-dangers-of-new-virulent-hiv-strain/

That's a disturbing story, and I'd like to see more details.  The final paragraph suggests some aspects that sound familiar; scapegoating is one of the things that immediately come to mind:

Quote
According to the UN, Eastern Europe and Central Asia is the only region in the world where the HIV infection is clearly on the rise - and 52 percent of HIV-positive people in that region live in Russia, reported RIA Novosti. The scientists say the threat from the disease remains poorly understood in Russia, with 'underfunding' of research into the spread and properties of new HIV strains. Critics say a lack of sex education in Russian school contributes to a high HIV infection rate from lack of awareness about sexually transmitted diseases and protection against them.


Have bookmarked the Siberian Times, partly for follow-up on this story.

  
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 20, 2013, 05:19:06 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v157/dandydoodles/power_zps77caa5f1.jpg)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 20, 2013, 06:55:26 PM
  Some time back, I had noticed that abusive people seem to have some equational thinking, formulas that justify the grotesque. The first formula I noticed was that they supposed themselves as the victim.  Of course, we all probably have some of these formulas, and, more and more, scientists are saying the brain works as a computer, with software and even self-programming. The point is when that goes over the line.
  So, why was I slightly surprised when I saw Dick Cheney following the formula, with his new book about his heart condition? Many thousands dead, rivers of blood, on his watch, but he writes a book about his suffering?  But then, we just don't understand: he's a victim.  I guess he's just not one of those people who learn, from suffering, to have a care for the suffering of others.
 Anyway, on a different track, Cheney is now saying he sat bolt upright over a recent episode of Homeland, where there was a cyber-attack on a VP's pacemaker.  And tells CNN, he knew it was possible, and, in fact, they had altered his to prevent just that. Whee, he gets to reveal classified information, to sell his book.
  But, moving right along, cyber-attacks from hackers, on pacemakers.  And we just learned cyber-attacks on cars less than 10 years old are fairly easy.

It figures.  Cheney was safe.  Michael Hastings wasn't.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 20, 2013, 10:24:39 PM
Plenty of older cars out there....
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on October 21, 2013, 09:59:57 AM
Tea Party Republicans demanded changes to “Obamacare”
Republican Senators Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, two vocal opponents to the deal, said they would not attempt to delay it further.

   “I have no objection to the timing of this vote,” Mr Cruz told reporters.

But that didn't stop Mr Cruz firing another shot at the Senate.

   “The House of Representatives has taken a bold stance listening to the American people,” he said.
    “But unfortunately, the United States Senate has refused to do likewise.”

There seem to be two points here, Senator Cruz:
a) Your reference to the House taking "a bold stance" confuses boldness with acquiescence—why don’t you just admit that you've been defeated?

b) Your opinion that the House, unlike the the Senate, was listening to "the American people" is misguided, as it not only overlooks the fact that the US Senate voted in favour of the legislation 81-18 (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/16/senate-leaders-strike-debt-ceiling-deal-shutdown), with a majority of both Democrats and Republicans, but that the Senate did so before it was passed by the House of Representatives, by 285 votes to 144, with a majority of Democrats (bolstered by a minority of Republicans).

Senator Cruz also said:

“The United States Senate has stayed with the traditional approach of the Washington establishment of maintaining the status quo and doing nothing to respond to the suffering that Obamacare is causing millions of Americans.”

What on earth do you mean, Senator, when you say “millions of Americans suffering” due to the Affordable Care Act?

My understanding is that 95% of Americans (i.e. 32 million) are now insured under the ACA (in comparison to 15% being previously without insurance), including 500,000 newly-insured young adults, and that most people are now more able to afford health care because health insurance costs less.

So what I’d like to know is how can providing affordable health care to those who most need it possibly be seen as causing suffering?

I have three words for Ted Cruz:

Bless.

Your.

Heart.

 ;)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on October 21, 2013, 10:38:58 AM


Now it's 14!

Christie Withdraws Appeal of Same-Sex Marriage Ruling in New Jersey

Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey announced on Monday that his administration would drop its legal challenge to allowing gay marriage in the state, hours after same-sex couples started exchanging vows.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/nyregion/christie-withdraws-appeal-of-same-sex-marriage-ruling-in-new-jersey.html


At 12:01, Same-Sex Couples in New Jersey Say ‘I Do’

In Lambertville, N.J., the marriage certificate of Beth Asaro and Joanne Schailey allowed only for a “bride” and a “groom,” so Ms. Asaro — in a pink suit — was listed as the groom, and Ms. Schailey — in a black suit — as the bride.

 The same went for the marriage license application that Karen and Marcye Nicholson-McFadden filed in Aberdeen a few hours before they were due to marry on the Boardwalk in Asbury Park a minute after midnight. “It’s just going to list one of us as groom and one of us as bride, and we’re just going to wing it,” Marcye Nicholson-McFadden said breathlessly.

And in Elizabeth, Marsha Shapiro’s walk down the aisle was only minutes away when she realized she had forgotten something very important — or two somethings. “We need a ring bearer,” she said, as bottles of Champagne popped around her. “And I need to put my lipstick on.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/21/nyregion/a-rush-to-the-altar-for-same-sex-couples-in-new-jersey.html


The marriage certificates definitely need to be updated, but now marriage equality in New Jersey seems to be a done deal.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on October 21, 2013, 11:45:42 AM
Christie Withdraws Appeal of Same-Sex Marriage Ruling in New Jersey

Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey announced on Monday that his administration would drop its legal challenge to allowing gay marriage in the state, hours after same-sex couples started exchanging vows.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/nyregion/christie-withdraws-appeal-of-same-sex-marriage-ruling-in-new-jersey.html

I guess he figures he's done enough to establish his cred with the tea-baggers-partiers.

 ;)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on October 21, 2013, 11:48:12 AM
Good to know!  ;D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on October 21, 2013, 02:50:52 PM
I have three words for Ted Cruz:

Bless.

Your.

Heart.

 ;)

Yep. Bless your little three-chambered heart.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on October 21, 2013, 02:51:43 PM
And yay that it's official now in NJ!

May the lawsuit in VA prevail, somehow.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 21, 2013, 04:11:21 PM
  Your tax dollars at work !
 The local media are advising us that the Navy will be simulating an attack on the Norfolk Naval Base, on Tuesday and Wednesday, with all manner of ships and boats.  But, we are assured, they will be using blanks.
  I am 1 mile away.  I don't trust them. And will look about me with the greatest suspicion. Sometimes, some moron can't distinguish between blanks and the real thing  :P.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: tfferg on October 21, 2013, 07:01:17 PM
Modified rapture

The Australian Capital Territory Legislative Assembly has just passed the Marriage Equality Bill in principle by 9 votes to 8.

Same-sex couples from all over Australia will be welcome to marry under the ACT law, though our marriages will not be recognised in our own states. (Legislation in Tasmania, New South Wales and South Australia is expected soon).

The Assembly is going on to debate amendments to strengthen the law against the forthcoming challenge by the Commonwealth government in the High Court. The ACT is arguing that its law can operate concurrently with the Federal law which restricts marriage to opposite-sex couples.

Many couples hope to marry in the ACT in the next few months even though the High Court may annul our marriages.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on October 21, 2013, 07:36:27 PM
Too bad Obama had to resort to the Michael Corleone Strategy but being 'the adult in the room' specifically includes not giving in to irrational tantrums:

(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q135/talkstocoyotes/MichaelCorleoneObama_zpsd7872eec.jpg)




That's a sexy President right there!!   :-*
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 22, 2013, 07:37:29 AM

Some updates on the New South Wales bushfires
While here in Melbourne the rain has been pouring down today (and as I write this tonight) bushfires have raged across NSW, with many homes already destroyed in the Blue Mountains, thousands of hectares in the state have been burnt and large-scale deaths have occurred amongst Australian wildlife.

Tomorrow (Wednesday) is “expected to be the wrost day of the bushfire emergency, with temperatures in the high 30s and wind gusts up to100 kph.”
Read more here (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-22/live-blog-bushfire-conditions-expected-to-worsen-tuesday/5036812)

NSW bushfires - Conditions forecast tomorrow 'about as bad as it gets'
Cooler weather gives firefighters a brief respite before "D-Day" on Wednesday, as four major bushfires remain as serious 'watch and act' advisories.
http://www.theguardian.com/global/2013/oct/22/nsw-bushfires-live-blue-mountains-emergency-still-in-place

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20October%202013/CurrentFiresinNSW_zpsa4db7f6b.jpg)

Map of Current Fires

http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/dsp_content.cfm?cat_id=683

One of the most shocking features of the fire emergency in New South Wales is that five children have now been arrested and charged with lighting some of the most dangerous fires.
Among them are an 11-year-old and a 15-year-old who are accused of starting the Heatherbrae blaze which ripped through Port Stephens last week, destroying several buildings and burning out more than 5,000 hectares of bushland. The boys were arrested separately on the New South Wales mid-north coast yesterday afternoon and have been charged with arson offences.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-22/kids-playing-with-fire/5038134

Injured and distressed animals that have survived the bushfires in the Blue Mountains are emerging from affected areas and seeking refuge.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-22/animal-victims-of-the-blue-mountains-bushfires-seek-refuge/5038032


Bushfires take heavy toll on wildlife, including possums, koalas and gliders:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/22/bushfires-take-heavy-toll-wildlife

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on October 22, 2013, 07:40:22 AM
Sounds very bad, Paul.  I hope your rain may go in the right direction.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on October 22, 2013, 07:42:38 AM
Modified rapture

The Australian Capital Territory Legislative Assembly has just passed the Marriage Equality Bill in principle by 9 votes to 8.

Same-sex couples from all over Australia will be welcome to marry under the ACT law, though our marriages will not be recognised in our own states. (Legislation in Tasmania, New South Wales and South Australia is expected soon).

The Assembly is going on to debate amendments to strengthen the law against the forthcoming challenge by the Commonwealth government in the High Court. The ACT is arguing that its law can operate concurrently with the Federal law which restricts marriage to opposite-sex couples.

Many couples hope to marry in the ACT in the next few months even though the High Court may annul our marriages.

Modified congratulations, Tony. Well, it does sound promising. My daughter has just emailed me about it too.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 22, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
 Paul, we are getting a lot of coverage on those fires on network news.  Am surprised, as they have been pretty parochial at times on non-US disasters.
  Sounds pretty bad.  I hope things go better.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on October 22, 2013, 03:52:05 PM
Yeah, good luck for your country, Paul.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on October 22, 2013, 04:15:38 PM
I've also heard it on the news, like Sara said, I hope the rains go the right way.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 22, 2013, 04:27:51 PM
Thinking of you. Paul, and all other Australians.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on October 22, 2013, 04:44:30 PM
Stay safe, Paul. We are hearing about them here in California as well.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: oilgun on October 22, 2013, 09:23:58 PM
So about that controversy about people having trouble enrolling in Obama Care because of website issues:  One journalist, granted he's a francophone, claims that the only people having problems are actually from Red States and that People from Blue States have no issues.  He said he had no problem enrolling, he's in Nevada,  and is set to save a lot of money on insurance.  SO, apparently it's the repugnicans that are actually making enrollment diffilcult.  Has anyone heard about this?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 22, 2013, 09:36:49 PM
My son in good ol' red TN got signed up after several hours on several different days.
His cousin in blue OH just got enrolled last night, again after several tries on several different days.
Of course, according to the news, they may both find out their applications, etc are incomplete or whatever.
Everyone else I know who is seriously interested in exploring the possibilites has decided to wait until some of the bugs are ironed out.
I seriously doubt there is any kind of conspiracy to deny Republicans coverage. Their money is as good as anybody else's.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 23, 2013, 01:23:26 AM
Thank you all—Sara, Tony, Fritz, Chuck, Jess and Linda—for your expressions of concern, and for your support.

Some rain did indeed fall on the Blackheath and Springwood fires in the Blue Mountains (and in the Southern Highlands) last night, giving the Rural Fire Service a short respite as the fires were dampened, but flame activity started up again today.

The hot, dry and windy weather reached its peak this afternoon, with burning embers being blown toward homes.

An emergency warning has been reinstated for Springwood, with a number of Fire Service crews and thirty fire trucks being relocated to the area. The RFS has issued a warning to local residents that there is “immediate danger” and they need to take shelter or go to evacuation centres.

One of the largest firefighting contingents ever to be assembled in NSW history is now battling an active 1500 kilometre (932 miles) fire edge in the Blue Mountains.

The extreme weather conditions are now also affecting areas west of Newcastle on the NSW coast, with strengthening winds up to 80 kph and above causing spot fires to break out.
A scrub fire of 52 hectares (130 acres) at Minmi near Newcastle is currently out of control.

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20October%202013/Wed_zpsb88e2ce4.jpg)
Current fires and incidents being attended by NSW Rural Fire Service volunteers
5.00 pm Wednesday 23 October AEDT


Meanwhile, here in Melbourne the day has been cool to cold, with frequent heavy showers and ongoing drizzle...  ::)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on October 23, 2013, 06:04:39 PM



HRH Grumps - but by George, he's gorgeous! Not a tear, not a peep from our future king as prince is christened at St James's Palace

    The world able to see Prince George in public for the first time in three months as he arrived to be christened
    Royal fans braved the wind and rain and slept on street in London to be outside St James's Palace yesterday
    George was baptised by the Archbishop of Canterbury in the historic Chapel Royal yesterday afternoon
    Guest list secret until yesterday morning and in break from tradition most uncles, aunts and cousins not invited
    The Queen and Duke of Edinburgh celebrated with the Prince of Wales, the Duchess of Cornwall and Prince Harry
    Kate's family also there along with Her Majesty and three future monarchs - Charles, William and George
    George was baptised using water from the River Jordan in a replica of royal christening robe first made in 1841
    Christening followed by tea at Clarence House served with slices of Kate and William's wedding cake from 2011


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2472989/Prince-Georges-day-Royal-family-St-James-Palace-christening-Kate-Williams-baby.html#ixzz2iapzB8Yz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 24, 2013, 04:16:40 PM
From a yahoo article on same sex marriage in NJ

Q. What should couples with civil unions in New Jersey do? Are they considered married already?

A. The state Health Department is advising those 16,000 or so couples that their civil unions remain in effect and that they are not converted automatically to marriage. While civil unions are intended to confer all the state-granted legal benefits of marriage, they do not entitle couples to many of the federal benefits. The gay rights group Garden State Equality is advising couples with civil unions to get married.

Q. What about same-sex couples married legally in another state?

A. This is murkier. Heterosexual couples married out of state are considered wed in New Jersey. But the court decision does not address how this works for gay couples. Garden State Equality executive director Troy Stevenson said he wants the state attorney general to issue an opinion clarifying the matter. The attorney general, however, has not released such an opinion, though the state Health Department does consider those couples as renewing their commitment and says they do not have to wait 72 hours before being granted marriage licenses the way newly married couples do.


So why would it (marriage) be any different for any couple depending on whether they are gay or straight?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on October 24, 2013, 11:56:40 PM
From Dave Cullen on Facebook:

Book #2:

I took my time on "Columbine" and hopefully got it right. I wanted to do the same here, and really thought, wrote and researched long and hard before pitching this to publishers.

Now, I'm sure. These guys have an amazing story, and I have been following them 13 years. (Nearly as long as I've been on the Columbine story.) And I'm really excited about Tim Duggan, and the team at HarperCollins. They are totally behind it.

This will be appearing on the web soon:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

(October 24, 2013) Harper Executive editor Tim Duggan has acquired North American rights to Soldiers First by Dave Cullen, New York Times Bestselling author of Columbine, winner of the Edgar Award and Barnes and Noble Discover Prize. A former soldier himself, Cullen offers a war story and a love story in this account of two closeted gay men whose lives and quest for love paralleled the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy. Sold at auction by Betsy Lerner at Dunow, Carlson and Lerner Literary Agency
.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on October 25, 2013, 12:29:41 PM
Yay! Really looking forward to reading that one. I feel such a connection to gay military.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 27, 2013, 02:50:11 AM

NSW bushfire update for Saturday 26 October

In the Blue Mountains (where more than 3,300 hectares have been burnt so far) crews accessed difficult terrain with the support of aircraft to conduct extensive backburning operations and the completion of a control line. In other areas of the mountains firefighters strengthened containment lines. In the Springwood area 120 firefighters strengthened and patrolled the eastern containment lines, and mopped up along accessible edges of the fire to minimise potential threats. Many roads remained closed, and although no properties are under immediate threat, residents were advised to remain vigilant and closely monitor the situation.

A fire in the Southern Highlands (to date, more than 15,650 hectares burnt) was contained as firefighters worked throughout the day and continued to patrol the fireground. Aerial incendiary work in the bushland to the east of the Hume Highway removed a number of areas containing unburnt fuels.

West of Newcastle: fire crews worked throughout Saturday to create containment lines for a large fire in the Yengo National Park, and undertook extensive backburning operations to slow the fire’s progress.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 27, 2013, 03:03:47 AM

Lucky Country
The fire threat was “as bad as it gets.” Soaring temperatures and fierce winds were preceded by an unusually warm and dry winter.
But the damage was relatively contained so what went right?


New South Wales’ worst fire crisis in 20 years turned out to be the triumph of hard work and hope over experience, and, given the conditions, with little loss of life and property.

For days the state faced the fear that Mother Nature was about to unleash her worst. But somehow the weather and the RSF fire-fighters combined to avert catastrophe.

The use of aircraft-borne heat-seeking infra-red scanning equipment also played an important role as it provided RFS strategists with the ability to see through dense smoke to direct firefighting teams and equipment to the most dangerous ground.

Mark Adams, the dean of agriculture and environment at the University of Sydney and one of Australia's foremost authorities on bushfires, said

“It could have been much worse. Fortuitously, the weather didn't behave as predicted... South-east Australia has always had its catastrophic fire events, but the research suggests the big ash forest fires, the ones that scare the living daylights out of anyone who gets even close to them, have come in the order of every 50, 100 or 200 years. ... But now we've had them in 1939, 1983 and 2009. That's getting very short.

Many of the scientific community feel that we just have to wait for the next El Nino and we'll have another one. And the area that is subject to high-intensity wildfire is expanding. Previously, it was pretty much restricted to that south-east corner, particularly around Melbourne.

But, as climates change, so do fires. The recent disastrous fires in NSW remind us the potential for high-intensity bushfire now spreads as far north as Sydney and we are seeing increasingly long fire seasons in parts of Queensland, all the way up to Rockhampton.”

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20October%202013/CrisisMap_zps3c877bcf.jpg)

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/lucky-country-20131025-2w761.html

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 27, 2013, 03:06:39 AM

NBC suggests whole of Australia was on fire

The NSW bushfires have caught the attention of media outlets around the world, but a bizarre graphic produced by US television network NBC on 23 October suggests that almost the entire country has been ablaze this past week.

According to NBC, fires have affected areas including vast swathes of Cape York, the entire Darwin region and vast portions of Western Australia's Great Sandy Desert, where you'd be lucky to find two blades of grass to rub together.

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20October%202013/Australiaonfire_zpsc2768fbb.jpg)

Now it turns out there may be an explanation for what appears to be a major cartographical catastrophe.

Read more: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/american-network-nbc-publishes-map-suggesting-the-whole-of-australia-is-on-fire/story-fni0cx12-1226746193315


Here’s the first 13 seconds of that broadcast: http://youtu.be/LTJC7FKFPog

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 28, 2013, 08:19:36 PM

Severe storm sweeps across Europe

At least 13 people were killed and thousands of homes left without power in the worst storm to hit northern Europe in a decade.
Hurricane-force winds and heavy rain brought down trees and powerlines, causing severe travel disruption with trains, flights and ferries being cancelled and major roads closed.


Four people were killed in southern England by trees falling onto a caravan in Kent and a car in north London, and a man and a woman died in a house in west London.

Six people were killed in Germany—four by trees falling onto cars and a fisherman and a sailor were killed in separate incidents at sea, the BBC reported—and in northern France a woman was swept out to sea, and a tree crushed a woman near a canal in Amsterdam.

Hurricane-force winds battered Scandinavia from mid-afternoon, closing the bridge between Sweden and Denmark and paralysing road and rail transport.
Heavy winds also swept across the low-lying Netherlands, halting all trains into Amsterdam.
In France winds topped 100 kph felling trees, whipping up six-metre high waves and cutting power supplies to 75,000 homes...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-29/thirteen-dead-in-europes-worst-storm-in-a-decade/5051248

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: BayCityJohn on October 29, 2013, 12:01:49 AM
***SPOILER ALERT***

The full score is online

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/SanFranciscoJohn/BBMScorecover_zpsed680530.jpg) (http://s275.photobucket.com/user/SanFranciscoJohn/media/BBMScorecover_zpsed680530.jpg.html)




http://edition-peters.com/newsdetails.php?articleID=IN00308 (http://edition-peters.com/newsdetails.php?articleID=IN00308)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 29, 2013, 05:57:01 AM
This is probably not as major a Current Event as some News items posted here—certainly not as major, for instance, as the recent storm which swept over the southern UK, France, Germany, Sweden and The Netherlands, causing the deaths of 13 people, considerable damage to homes, and disruption to transport services—but I thought it was worth mentioning, especially as NSW has just suffered a week of bushfires.

Wild weather batters NSW

Hail storms have caused havoc in parts of the NSW mid north coast at Gloucester and Port Macquarie and in the north west around Armidale.

Large hailstones, some as big as macadamia nuts, have been seen in Port Macquarie.

Strong winds have brought down trees and power lines and blown roofs off homes and businesses.

Emergency service crews say it could take until tomorrow to clear the backlog of calls for help from people whose homes and businesses have been damaged by gale force winds that have lashed Sydney and the central coast.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-29/macadamia-nut-sized-hail-hits-nsw-mid-north-coast/5053496

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 29, 2013, 06:57:29 AM

On newsworthy issues unrelated to weather, I'm very pleased to post this item here because—at long last—it appears (and I quote) that the White House,
     a) has admitted that the covert surveillance of American allies might have gone too far; that it
     b) “promises” reforms to its electronic surveillance program; and is now
     c) “conducting a review of [its] intelligence programs.”

That's not bad for a start, at least, and I'll look on from the sidelines with great interest to see what happens next...
But I'm particularly pleased (which should be no surprise to anyone) that Edward Snowden# is “out of reach of US attempts to arrest him.”

US spy chiefs face Congress amid spying rift with Europe

When top US intelligence officials testified at a congressional hearing weeks ago, the public uproar was over the National Security Agency collecting the phone and email records of Americans.

But when the NSA director and other spy chiefs appear at a House Intelligence Committee hearing on Tuesday it will be against a backdrop of angry European allies accusing the United States of spying on their leaders and citizens.
The most prominent target appears to have been German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose mobile phone was allegedly tapped by the NSA.

More than any previous disclosures from material given to journalists by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, the reports of spying on close U.S. allies have forced the White House to promise reforms and even acknowledge that America's electronic surveillance may have gone too far.

“We recognize there needs to be additional constraints on how we gather and use intelligence,” White House spokesman Jay Carney said on Monday.

U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein, who chairs the Senate's intelligence committee, joined the ranks of critics on Monday, expressing outrage at U.S. intelligence collection on allies, and pique that her committee was not informed.
“With respect to NSA collection of intelligence on leaders of U.S. allies, including France, Spain, Mexico and Germany—let me state unequivocally: I am totally opposed,” said Feinstein, who appeared to confirm U.S. spying on Merkel's communications since 2002.

The White House is conducting a review of intelligence programs prompted by disclosures about top secret spying programs to the media by Snowden, who is living in Russia, out of reach of U.S. attempts to arrest him.

Read more here: http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/10/29/us-spy-chiefs-face-congress-amid-spying-rift-europe


# Perhaps it's now time for me to also post my thoughts on the debacle surrounding the interruption to President Morales' flight to La Paz after the conclusion of GEFC II, and the alleged involvement of France, Spain, Portugal and Italy...
But not, interestingly, Germany.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 29, 2013, 02:37:25 PM
  Paul, these weather and other catastrophes seem to be increasing, and, IMO, it's an example of how so much that is unnecessary is dragging us down, when handling the natural events is where we should focus.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 29, 2013, 02:40:01 PM
  Am surprised the NSA is spying on Angela Merkel.  What, their porn sites went down ?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 29, 2013, 04:32:44 PM
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
To know your enemy, you must become your enemy.

Sun Tzu
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on October 29, 2013, 07:36:02 PM
My take on the spying.

These other nations getting their panties in a bunch, shouldn't be too overly concerned, or "shocked" that the US has spied on their leaders, even though they are our friends. What they should be concerned about, is the fact that they were speid on; and, their counter intelligence assets failed to prevent it from happening. That means that if we can do it; their enemies and potential enemies can also do it...and, probably are doing it. Maybe they can protest against Russia and China, even though they haven't officially caught them because of a whistle blower. I'm sure that once they protest, it will stop the Russians and Chinese right in their tracks. ... Yeah! ... Right!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 29, 2013, 09:53:02 PM
Like they're not doing exactly the same thing.
And how dumb are they to be talking important secret stuff on cell phones, for god's sake?
I think behind the reporters' backs everyone is snickering at the big act they're ALL putting on.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on October 29, 2013, 10:19:25 PM
I totally agree, Sherry. They are just as guilty.
It is a case of "he doth protest too much"!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 30, 2013, 07:24:48 AM
Too much time has passed since the events surrounding the rerouting of the Bolivian presidential jet in July to warrant further comment from me on a thread devoted to Current Events. I would, however, like to make a final post on the matter and so get it out of my mind once and for all.

At the time I noticed serious inconsistencies and contradictions in news reports about what had occurred once President Evo Morales’ jet (designated FAB-001) had landed at Vienna's Schwechat International Airport, which I was going to discuss, but never mind about that now, nor the alleged involvement of France, Spain, Portugal and Italy in the affair.

As I said some few pages back the entire situation arose because of an off-hand remark made by Morales, one which unintentionally precipitated an international diplomatic incident and a subsequent backlash against the US.  I also made a few posts about Snowden being not offically in Russia because was in the transit zone of Sheremetyevo International Airport; but as he’d also had his US passport revoked and was therefore denied access past Russian passport control, he was unable to leave Russia to fly to Cuba (as it was alleged that that was what he’d proposed to do). In other words, unable to leave the airport, he was “marooned” in a non-Russian No Man’s Land.

Snowden arrived from Hong Kong on Aeroflot Flight SU213 and landed at Sheremetyevo Airport on June 23. Although some reports (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=47165.msg2425767#msg2425767) at the time were confused about Snowden’s actual location (Domodedovo or Sheremetyevo?) his lawyer confirmed that he was at Sheremetyevo (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=47165.msg2421162#msg2421162), and had been there when Morales left the country, and was still there when he gave a televised interview from within the transit zone prior to his being granted temporary asylum in Russia.

President Morales arrived in Russia on July 1 to attend the second summit meeting of GECF at the Grand Kremlin Palace, and made a remark to the effect that if it was requested he would “consider and debate” the possibility of granting Bolivian asylum to Snowden. On July 2, after the summit meeting, Morales left Russia for La Paz, and we all know what happened after that...

The subsequent rumour that Snowden was on board FAB-001 was a nonsense, one which escalated to directly involve the US, Bolivia, Austria, France, Spain, Portugal and Italy and eventually Russia, Argentina, Brazil, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela, NATO, the Vienna Convention and the UN. (After which President Morales changed his mind and said that Snowden was definitely welcome in his country, making the offer as a protest against the U.S. and European nations he accused of temporarily blocking his flight.)

It was all a nonsense because it completely ignored the fact that Snowden was trapped in one airport 27 km northwest from Moscow, and Morales departed from another—Vnukovo International Airport—an airport primarily used by visiting dignitaries and Russian government officials, and 28 km southwest of Moscow. The two airports are 40 kilometers apart as the crow flies, and even further apart by road, between 57 km and 80 km, depending on the route taken:

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20October%202013/map-moscow-airportsii_zps02fa711d.jpg)


Finally (and briefly) it would take me far too long to sort out all the allegations about what country did what, when it was done, who told who to do what, whether they were bullied to do it or weren’t told to do anything but did it anyway, what the pilot said as FAB-001 approached Schwechat Airport, what happened after that, and why it happened, and then all the denials that anything was done at all, let alone all the apologies which eventually arose, the outraged claims of totalitarian and piratical behaviour, the humiliation of a stunning violation of national sovereignity, the disrespect, and so on and so on...

And all for what, I wonder?


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 30, 2013, 07:26:39 AM
  Paul, these weather and other catastrophes seem to be increasing, and, IMO, it's an example of how so much that is unnecessary is dragging us down, when handling the natural events is where we should focus.
I agree with that, Tony.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 30, 2013, 12:23:40 PM
Geez, we've had weather since... well, since forever. And we (in the US) have kept "official" records for about 200 years. But considering how long weather has affected the Earth, getting excited because storms and temperatures have been different in the last 10 or even 20 years seems way premature to me. Hey, yeah! icebergs and glaciers are melting... didn't that start at the end of the Ice Age? And before that, at the beginning of the Ice Age, the weather changed from what it had been... bet there was a lot of "Oh my, the storms are getting worse and worse and the weather is getting colder. Bet it's all those campfires the Neanderthals are using, blocking out the sun." Al Gore spins a good tale... that's why he started the internet... but adaptation to change is part of living.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 30, 2013, 12:59:42 PM
America’s Least Favorite Neighbors: Renters

Most Americans know their neighbors by name, new research finds, and might even invite them over occasionally for tea. That is, unless the neighbor is — gasp — a renter.

Indeed, people are more prejudiced against renters than any other group living on their street, according to a survey of over 3,000 adults released Thursday by research firm Harris Interactive on behalf of Trulia, a real-estate firm. Of those picky neighbors, 33% want people on their street to speak the same language, 16% want their neighbors to have the same family structure and 10% prefer the same race or ethnicity. But 35% (even those who are renters themselves) said it was most important that their neighbors be homeowners. In fact, 51% of homeowners say they prefer to have other homeowners as neighbors.

That may be disheartening news for the large proportion of renters who can’t actually afford to buy a home. Homes in just eight of the 25 largest urban areas are within reach of median-income households, according to data released last week by Interest.com, which tracks consumer credit. “Millions of owner-occupied, single-family homes that went into foreclosure in 2008 became rentals,” says Jed Kolko, chief economist at Trulia. The home ownership rate now hovers at 65%, the lowest level since 1995, after peaking at over 69% in 2004, according to the Census Bureau.


more
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/america-least-favorite-neighbors-renters-113113757.html

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 30, 2013, 01:08:06 PM
Geez, we've had weather since... well, since forever. And we (in the US) have kept "official" records for about 200 years. But considering how long weather has affected the Earth, getting excited because storms and temperatures have been different in the last 10 or even 20 years seems way premature to me. Hey, yeah! icebergs and glaciers are melting... didn't that start at the end of the Ice Age? And before that, at the beginning of the Ice Age, the weather changed from what it had been... bet there was a lot of "Oh my, the storms are getting worse and worse and the weather is getting colder. Bet it's all those campfires the Neanderthals are using, blocking out the sun." Al Gore spins a good tale... that's why he started the internet... but adaptation to change is part of living.
  All well and good, Sherry, but what I had meant was that we NEED to adapt to the often harsh natural changes, and it is ever more difficult to do that with totally unnecessary political bull crap.
  I doubt the Neanderthals or their lesser relatives (us), could have survived the harshness so well, were Michelle Bachmann, the Koch brothers, and Fox news distracting them from the business at hand of survival.  That was what I meant.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 30, 2013, 01:21:24 PM
Ah, I missed your point entirely.
I agree... everything, as in everything! seems so much worse than ever now that it is reported the absolute first second it occurs and rereported by everyone with a smartphone or facebook page, regardless of facts. Opinions become gospel within a matter of minutes and when was the last time that gospel was actually something good?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 30, 2013, 01:45:52 PM
 Paul, your noting the discrepancies in the Snowden story are appreciated.  That, plus Doodler's noting, on another thread, that the current generation supposes, if it is on Wikipedia, it is biblical truth, reminds me of how often we never challenge generally accepted stories.
  Just to toss a few out, for history buffs:
* The history books have James  II tossing the Great Seal into the Thames as he fled England.  Right.  As if he would give up an additional bauble supporting his legitimacy. I think the old Seal is still around.
* History books have his grandson Charles Edward Stuart, finally acknowledged as not the son of a warming-pan baby (a propaganda convenience of that time), but many have him vanishing, as a drunken grumpy alcoholic, his final ending unknown.  Wikipedia gives a date of death, and has him buried in St. Peter's Basilica, along with his legitimate wife, but wobbliness as to any heir. Right.
* The standard story of the attempt on Hitler's life still stands.  The Princes of Wittelsbach and Wurtenburg, joined in with other royals, nobility, and dissenters, on the plot.  Up to 5,000 of their relatives arrested and killed.  The Princes sent to the concentration camps they had learned of, and which discovery had motivated much of the plot.  The standard story is wrong.
  Army intelligence, after the war, found that Hitler was seriously injured, fearful of the popularity of the Wittelsbach prince, and used his total control of state media, to slightly alter and delay much of the true story.  Something discovered by a relentless history buff from the U.S. Navy, after the war. And suppressed, as it was entangled with other, more serious secrets.

But, to use a Hillary Clintonism: "What difference does it make?" [Her reference to Benghazi details]. Any of these discrepancies?  Maybe nothing to bother with.  Or maybe some startling discoveries, eventually, in Canada  ;). [The latter, a tweak to a few forum guests  :)]
  But, at the very least, the stories we are told, are all too often the product of convenience.  Sorry for wandering Paul. Into what may seem historical eccentricities.  But your post questioning the Snowden story triggered some my  usual, and yet does support what we should all have: a healthy skepticism.   And, of course, where we lack that, there is always Doodler  :D.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on October 30, 2013, 01:53:08 PM
Al Gore spins a good tale... that's why he started the internet.

Really?  :o  I thought it was so we could all have easier access to porn. ...  8)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 31, 2013, 02:25:34 AM
 Am surprised the NSA is spying on Angela Merkel.  What, their porn sites went down ?
I don’t know about the porn sites, Tony, but the German Chancellor’s phone has been tapped by the NSA since 2002. [i.e. even before she was Chancellor.]

The link I provided above was updated (http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2013/10/30/obama-may-ban-surveillance-foreign-allied-leaders) on October 30:

Obama may ban surveillance of foreign allied leaders

President Barack Obama is considering whether to ban US spy agencies from eavesdropping on allied leaders, a senior official said Tuesday, following outrage in Europe over National Security Agency snooping.
  

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters, said the step was under consideration, but that no policy decisions had yet been finalized, as Obama awaits results of several already announced reviews into US surveillance practices. The senior official, however, pushed back on a claim by powerful Senate Select Intelligence Committee chairman Dianne Feinstein that "collection on our allies will not continue," [saying that] the statement was not accurate, though Feinstein's remarks were unspecific enough to leave considerable doubt as to the true intentions of the administration regarding snooping on foreign leaders. The official said that while some changes had been made to US intelligence gathering in the wake of claims that US spies tapped German Chancellor Angela Merkel's phone, there had yet been no across-the-board changes, including a decision to halt intelligence sweeps aimed at all foreign allies.


One adjustment Obama does appear to have made is to halt surveillance on Merkel's cellphone.

Reports have said he did not know about the decade-long surveillance of the German chancellor, whom he considers a friend, and stopped it when he found out.

White House officials said Washington will not and is not tapping Merkel's phone -- leaving the clear implication that it had done so in the past.

On Monday Feinstein had strongly denounced US spying on foreign leaders, saying that her committee,
      “which is supposed to provide oversight of US intelligence agencies, was not informed of the program.



“Unless the United States is engaged in hostilities against a country or there is an emergency need for this type of surveillance, I do not believe the United States should be collecting phone calls or emails of friendly presidents and prime ministers,” she said.

Elsewhere in the SBS article the Chairman of the European Parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs was highly critical of the US overstepping its bounds, saying that the “espionage on Chancellor Merkel and others [was] not acceptable” and that “eavesdropping on the German administration [could be] a breach of German law.”

Angela Merkel was also reported last week to have branded the snooping as unacceptable between friends.

In the interests of impartiality I'll next post something else of interest from Der Speigel Online on October 28, in which there's an interesting reference to Merkel's phone...


PS I've underlined some statements which refer to Angela Merkel, her phone and what appears to be a reciprocal friendship with President Obama.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 31, 2013, 02:28:56 AM

Appearances and Reality: Merkel Balks at EU Privacy Push
Chancellor Merkel has put on a good show of being outraged by American spying.
But, at the same time, she has impeded efforts to strengthen data security.
Does she really want more privacy, or is she more interested in being accepted into the exclusive group of info-sharing countries known as the “Five Eyes” club?


One particular point of clarification was especially important to Chancellor Angela Merkel during the EU summit in Brussels last week.
When she complained about the NSA’s alleged tapping of her mobile phone the German chancellor made clear that her concern was not for herself, but for the "telephones of millions of EU citizens," whose privacy she said was compromised by US spying.

Yet at a working dinner with fellow EU heads of state on Thursday, where the agenda included a proposed law to bolster data protection, Merkel's fighting spirit on behalf of the EU's citizens seemed to have dissipated.

Read more: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-impedes-eu-privacy-efforts-despite-outrage-at-nsa-spying-a-930488.html

The Five Eyes group referred to above is a spying alliance of English-speaking democracies which shares intelligence on a range of global threats, including cyber crime.
It consists of the US, Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
     
“The US boasts the most advanced technical abilities and the biggest budget.
Britain is a leader in traditional spying, thanks in part to its reach into countries that were once part of the British Empire.
Australia has excelled in gathering regional signals and intelligence, providing a window into the growing might of Asia.
Canadians, Australians and New Zealanders can sometimes prove useful spies because they don't come under the same scrutiny as their British and American counterparts.”


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/security-it/five-eyes-spying-alliance-will-survive-edward-snowden-experts-20130718-hv0xw.html

As I said earlier, I was being impartial.  8)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on October 31, 2013, 06:14:04 AM
Paul, your noting the discrepancies in the Snowden story are appreciated.  That, plus Doodler's noting, on another thread, that the current generation supposes, if it is on Wikipedia, it is biblical truth, reminds me of how often we never challenge generally accepted stories. [...]
Thank you, Tony.  :)

But it’s not only on Wikipedia that misinformation occurs.

Although he could be excused on the grounds of “dramatic licence,” Shakespeare is also culpable when it comes to propagating incorrect (and biased) versions of the truth, as demonstrated by the discovery in January this year, beneath the City of Leicester Social Services’ car park, of what was confirmed to be the remains of King Richard III.

Shakespeare described him as being deformed, having an enormous hunchback, legs of unequal length and a shrunken, withered arm, so “lame and unfinished that dogs barked at him,” to support his portrait of Richard as a tyrant and a viilainous king who had had his two young nephews murdered in the Tower of London.

While some of this might be attributed to the influence of Tudor propaganda that sought to vilify him (in an age when physical deformity was thought to reflect a deformed mind and evil intent), Richard was instead an enlightened and pious ruler and his nephews, Prince Edward and Prince Richard, the sons of King Edward IV, and proven to be illegitimate, had no claim to the throne upon his death.

His excavated skeletal remains indicate that Richard had been fit and strong, his legs were of equal length and he didn’t have a withered arm.
At worst, his right shoulder was higher than his left, and he suffered from severe scoliosis, resulting in a curvature of the spine (rather than having a hunchback).

But the popular image of Richard III comes to us from Shakespeare, largely via Laurence Olivier’s portrayal in 1955, although modern depictions, such as that of Ian McKellen in 1995, have dispensed with such physical characteristics.

This could very well bring me to other examples of liberties being taken with a source for dramatic purposes.  :D
I’d also like to think about the implications of your “Hillary Clintonism” (what difference do discrepancies make?).

Food for thought, indeed, so had better continue in a separate post.


Some sources:

http://www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/
http://www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/archaeology/25august.html
http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/media-centre/richard-iii/features/discovery-could-potentially-separate-the-man-from-the-myth-say-university-of-leicester-experts
http://www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/history/myths.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/william-shakespeare/9542146/Shakespeares-histories-are-no-more-than-legends-but-they-live.html



Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 31, 2013, 08:55:41 AM
I, for one, am thoroughly fed up with all the crap about the Obamacare website. So it was screwed up. Big deal. It was the fault of the designers AND the people who refused to give them ALL the info during the design/coding process whether it was because they didn't have it or were afraid it would be leaked. A computer program the size of the health care one is bound to have glitches, serious problems, even if everything goes as planned. So what's the big deal if some of the sign up deadlines have to be changed? Are they written in stone?

And I don't see the problem with some people... even millions... having their policies cancelled because they don't offer the MINIMUM required by the new law. Yeah, BO said "you can keep your old policy" when he should have said "you can keep your old policy IF it's up to snuff," but it's not like insurance companies didn't know they didn't measure up. Of course, they couldn't be expected to speak up and tell their customers that and lose money if/when customers shopped around for other companies. But let's get real, customers knew they had el cheapo policies and didn't want to pay out any more. It's the same deal as the housing crap where people bought stuff they couldn'tafford because the financiers gave them the paperwork to sign. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. The other guy is always the one at fault.

In a couple months, the website will be working properly and things will be going about as well as any big business government can hope for. Just rein in your horses to a walk until we get over the rough ground.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 31, 2013, 11:05:39 AM
Geez, we've had weather since... well, since forever. And we (in the US) have kept "official" records for about 200 years. But considering how long weather has affected the Earth, getting excited because storms and temperatures have been different in the last 10 or even 20 years seems way premature to me. Hey, yeah! icebergs and glaciers are melting... didn't that start at the end of the Ice Age? And before that, at the beginning of the Ice Age, the weather changed from what it had been... bet there was a lot of "Oh my, the storms are getting worse and worse and the weather is getting colder. Bet it's all those campfires the Neanderthals are using, blocking out the sun." Al Gore spins a good tale... that's why he started the internet... but adaptation to change is part of living.

With regard to Neanderthal campfires, if you look at the figures for carbon emissions over the last 1000 years, (which I did with an IT student once), you can see quite clearly that the only time emissions have gone down was at the time of the Black Death when the population was cut by a third.
I know that isn't the Neanderthal period, but it does indicate to me that if there are too many of us nature will do what it has to do to restore the balance, and that in its turn will lessen the carbon emissions.
Just saying.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 31, 2013, 11:20:13 AM
Your point?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 31, 2013, 11:27:04 AM
That we are creating enormous amounts of carbon emissions and that if the climate goes to hell in a handcart because of us, and many of us cease to exist when nature decides to restore the balance then we have only ourselves to blame.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 31, 2013, 02:35:26 PM
  Paul, your reference to the controversy on Richard III was excellent.  Strangely enough, that was where I got my start on learning to consider the source and their agendas, with regard to anything.
   As an undergrad, we were assigned "To Prove a Villain", which included dozens of different versions, about Richard III.  What was the point?  Well, the instructor said it was especially of value, owing to the long passage of time, which would prevent us from having prejudices.  A good subject for dissecting propaganda.
  And studying these historical mysteries have every relevance in assessing the firestorm of information, and disinformaton, we are hit with every day.
   More recent mysteries, of course, are subject to being considered too exotic, and so, we accept, all too often, whatever the party lines are.  And that's how we get into wars, economic collapses, and the danger of civil disorder.  We don't question.
*****
 Anyway, since my internet access may well be challenged this week-end, I'd like to do a double, and say something about the carbon emissions/weather change issue.  I think the worst is that change, artificially induced, will not be gradual.  We now know, from Chaos theory, that once something hits a tipping point, projections no longer apply.  It would not be a curve line.

Also, as usual, we totally ignore the natural solutions.  Trees soak up carbon.  In fact, President George H.W. Bush noted that massive resoration of the forests in the Great Plains states (nibbled away by the herds of Buffalo), would go far to reversing the problem.  And scientists agreed. But, the chances of that being done are as little as reversing the unhealthy food trends that are exploding all the health problems.
  What really angers me is that all these Darwinially-challenged people, are bothering the prospects of everyone else's survival.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 31, 2013, 02:48:50 PM
That we are creating enormous amounts of carbon emissions and that if the climate goes to hell in a handcart because of us, and many of us cease to exist when nature decides to restore the balance then we have only ourselves to blame.

Correct. But we seem to think everything is here for us and that it all revolves around our need to survive as a species. Unfortunately, we are just another life form and no more important to Mother Nature than the ebola virus. The earth was here before us and will be here after. We are but passing through.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 31, 2013, 02:50:31 PM

 Anyway, since my internet access may well be challenged this week-end, I'd like to do a double, and say something about the carbon emissions/weather change issue.  I think the worst is that change, artificially induced, will not be gradual.  We now know, from Chaos theory, that once something hits a tipping point, projections no longer apply.  It would not be a curve line.

Also, as usual, we totally ignore the natural solutions.  Trees soak up carbon.  In fact, President George H.W. Bush noted that massive resoration of the forests in the Great Plains states (nibbled away by the herds of Buffalo), would go far to reversing the problem.  And scientists agreed. But, the chances of that being done are as little as reversing the unhealthy food trends that are exploding all the health problems.
  What really angers me is that all these Darwinially-challenged people, are bothering the prospects of everyone else's survival.

See my post above. We matter not in the great scheme of things.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 31, 2013, 02:53:06 PM
And no one has anything to say about the NSA's incursion into the loud via Google and Yahoo, along with our British friends?
More big whoop! about nothing, but since we are not alone in being "caught," it will blow over quickly.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on October 31, 2013, 03:04:57 PM
I, for one, am thoroughly fed up with all the crap about the Obamacare website.

It will be the downfall of Obama and perhaps the Dems in next year's election. People are mad and starting to hate Obama more. He's at the lowest in the pulls right now, but he is still better than Republicans. They are at their lowest in years.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 31, 2013, 03:53:47 PM
See my post above. We matter not in the great scheme of things.
  Here, you may speaketh only for thine self.  It may be that I do not, myself, matter in multitudinous schemes of things, great, or otherwise. But, for some odd reason,  I do feel each of us matters, far more than random hydrogen atoms floating about, deciding if they will become galaxies, or some strangely peaceful, future earth, devoid of sentient life.  And Fox news.  Ok. That last part was redundant  :).
  Then, too, according to quantum physics, nothing exists unless there is an observer (the collapse of the wave function). There may be a great scheme of things, Sherry, but it don't mean jack except for people.  What's going on, I cannot claim to know.  But to move from that to supposing we matter not, is, for me, too great a leap.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 31, 2013, 03:58:51 PM
I disagree. I don't think people are nearly as mad as the press would have us believe. Not about Obamacare, not about the so called spying, not about the drones. It's easy to think everyone is up in arms (thank god for the second amendment!) when every other story on yahoo and the tv news is about how angry everyone is. And of course, all the politicians, Dem as well as Rep, are trying to get their say in, thinking their constituents are actually upset. I don't know ANYONE who cares a wit about any of this crap.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on October 31, 2013, 04:00:09 PM
It will be the downfall of Obama and perhaps the Dems in next year's election. People are mad and starting to hate Obama more. He's at the lowest in the pulls right now, but he is still better than Republicans. They are at their lowest in years.
  Don't give up on ObamaCare yet, Tom.  These things are always a mess at first.
 As for the low poll ratings for the Prez from this, I noticed the Democratic candidate for Governor of Virginia, had his lead cut in half, the day after Obama campaigned for him.  So, yes, people are angry and confused, now.
  But, by the time of the 2014 election, am fairly confident it will be an enormous plus.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on October 31, 2013, 04:01:00 PM
  Don't give up on ObamaCare yet, Tom.  These things are always a mess at first.
 As for the low poll ratings for the Prez from this, I noticed the Democratic candidate for Governor of Virginia, had his lead cut in half, the day after Obama campaigned for him.  So, yes, people are angry and confused, now.
  But, by the time of the 2014 election, am fairly confident it will be an enormous plus.

I hope you are right.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on October 31, 2013, 04:01:29 PM
It will be the downfall of Obama and perhaps the Dems in next year's election. People are mad and starting to hate Obama more. He's at the lowest in the pulls right now, but he is still better than Republicans. They are at their lowest in years.

I bet not, Tom. By next year this website stuff will be smoothed out and most people will have some equivalent or better form of health care than they have today, and they will be on to something else.

The NSA stuff, IMO, is more serious but the Republicans can't complain too much about that -- because whoever gets elected will want to continue surveillance and drones.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on October 31, 2013, 04:06:04 PM
  Here, you may speaketh only for thine self.  It may be that I do not, myself, matter in multitudinous schemes of things, great, or otherwise. But, for some odd reason,  I do feel each of us matters, far more than random hydrogen atoms floating about, deciding if they will become galaxies, or some strangely peaceful, future earth, devoid of sentient life.  And Fox news.  Ok. That last part was redundant  :).
  Then, too, according to quantum physics, nothing exists unless there is an observer (the collapse of the wave function). There may be a great scheme of things, Sherry, but it don't mean jack except for people.  What's going on, I cannot claim to know.  But to move from that to supposing we matter not, is, for me, too great a leap.

Or, at least, if we can avoid the end of our species, even if we still end up our same flawed bunch, it will be more interesting and hurt less.

Kurt Vonnegut did a good job in Galapagos imagining the future sea creatures our few survivors might become if we destroy the human race, no language and so forth. Cleaner and less dangerous, but not nearly as interesting.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on October 31, 2013, 04:08:21 PM
At least you don't have a major who is a crack head!


http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2013/10/31/mayor_rob_ford_is_finished.html
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on October 31, 2013, 05:09:21 PM
  Here, you may speaketh only for thine self.  It may be that I do not, myself, matter in multitudinous schemes of things, great, or otherwise. But, for some odd reason,  I do feel each of us matters, far more than random hydrogen atoms floating about, deciding if they will become galaxies, or some strangely peaceful, future earth, devoid of sentient life.  And Fox news.  Ok. That last part was redundant  :).
  Then, too, according to quantum physics, nothing exists unless there is an observer (the collapse of the wave function). There may be a great scheme of things, Sherry, but it don't mean jack except for people.  What's going on, I cannot claim to know.  But to move from that to supposing we matter not, is, for me, too great a leap.


My, but humans think highly of themselves, don't they. which really changes nothing. We are the same made up of the same dna as the rest of the planet and of no more importance. And honestly, WE are the only ones who think we're the best of all. I have no doubt that not a single dolphin or amoeba or fir or rock has ever wished it could be one of us.


Or, at least, if we can avoid the end of our species, even if we still end up our same flawed bunch, it will be more interesting and hurt less.

Kurt Vonnegut did a good job in Galapagos imagining the future sea creatures our few survivors might become if we destroy the human race, no language and so forth. Cleaner and less dangerous, but not nearly as interesting.

Interesting to whom? When we're gone, who's to care?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 31, 2013, 05:48:23 PM
Correct. But we seem to think everything is here for us and that it all revolves around our need to survive as a species. Unfortunately, we are just another life form and no more important to Mother Nature than the ebola virus. The earth was here before us and will be here after. We are but passing through.

I agree with you totally, Sherry.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on October 31, 2013, 05:56:04 PM
Thank you, Tony.  :)

But it’s not only on Wikipedia that misinformation occurs.

Although he could be excused on the grounds of “dramatic licence,” Shakespeare is also culpable when it comes to propagating incorrect (and biased) versions of the truth, as demonstrated by the discovery in January this year, beneath the City of Leicester Social Services’ car park, of what was confirmed to be the remains of King Richard III.

Shakespeare described him as being deformed, having an enormous hunchback, legs of unequal length and a shrunken, withered arm, so “lame and unfinished that dogs barked at him,” to support his portrait of Richard as a tyrant and a viilainous king who had had his two young nephews murdered in the Tower of London.

While some of this might be attributed to the influence of Tudor propaganda that sought to vilify him (in an age when physical deformity was thought to reflect a deformed mind and evil intent), Richard was instead an enlightened and pious ruler and his nephews, Prince Edward and Prince Richard, the sons of King Edward IV, and proven to be illegitimate, had no claim to the throne upon his death.

His excavated skeletal remains indicate that Richard had been fit and strong, his legs were of equal length and he didn’t have a withered arm.
At worst, his right shoulder was higher than his left, and he suffered from severe scoliosis, resulting in a curvature of the spine (rather than having a hunchback).

But the popular image of Richard III comes to us from Shakespeare, largely via Laurence Olivier’s portrayal in 1955, although modern depictions, such as that of Ian McKellen in 1995, have dispensed with such physical characteristics.

This could very well bring me to other examples of liberties being taken with a source for dramatic purposes.  :D
I’d also like to think about the implications of your “Hillary Clintonism” (what difference do discrepancies make?).

Food for thought, indeed, so had better continue in a separate post.


Some sources:

http://www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/
http://www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/archaeology/25august.html
http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/media-centre/richard-iii/features/discovery-could-potentially-separate-the-man-from-the-myth-say-university-of-leicester-experts
http://www.le.ac.uk/richardiii/history/myths.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/william-shakespeare/9542146/Shakespeares-histories-are-no-more-than-legends-but-they-live.html





So nice to see your defence of poor maligned Richard III, Paul.
I have been reading a great deal about "Good King Richard" in recent months since the discovery of his skeleton in Leicester.
I find it very hard to watch even a clip of Laurence Olivier in the Shakespeare play now it has all been proved to be such nonsense,
Back to the historians logic, "Who said it," "Why," "What's in it for them?"
It is a good rule to apply to any information really.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on November 01, 2013, 02:53:00 AM
That we are creating enormous amounts of carbon emissions and that if the climate goes to hell in a handcart because of us, and many of us cease to exist when nature decides to restore the balance then we have only ourselves to blame.

I suspect everyone who read your original post understood that in the first place.  Getting irrational when it comes to taking responsibility doesn't apply only to individuals.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on November 01, 2013, 02:53:57 AM
It will be the downfall of Obama and perhaps the Dems in next year's election.

Seems inevitable, in view of the prediction of President Romney's stunning victory from the same source.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on November 01, 2013, 04:43:55 AM
Seems inevitable, in view of the prediction of President Romney's stunning victory from the same source.


What source was that?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 04:49:40 AM
That we are creating enormous amounts of carbon emissions and that if the climate goes to hell in a handcart because of us, and many of us cease to exist when nature decides to restore the balance then we have only ourselves to blame.
I suspect everyone who read your original post understood that in the first place.  

But not, apparently, someone who asked Jess what her point was, hence her answer...


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on November 01, 2013, 05:01:51 AM
Unfortunately Paul you are quite right. :-*
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 05:03:38 AM
Still doing catch-up here... :)

But, to use a Hillary Clintonism: "What difference does it make?" [Her reference to Benghazi details]. Any of these discrepancies?  Maybe nothing to bother with.  Or maybe some startling discoveries [...]
As Secretary of State at the time it would have been far better had she not said “What difference at this point does it make?” especially as she followed it with “It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again,” as if what she’d said previously (“was it a protest or guys out for a walk one night”) didn’t count toward “figuring it out.”

The details are important, and whether the attack on the American Consulate was a pre-planned or a random, spontaneous attack needed to be addressed, not dismissed; and certainly so if—as she said—the aim was “to prevent it from ever happening again.”

I’ll use the Snowden/Morales issue to rebut her comment by pointing out that it was because the “details” were overlooked that an international diplomatic incident occurred which could have been easily avoided had they been taken into account.

I found it astounding that numerous online news sites had, without fail, unquestioningly accepted—as fact—the rumour that Edward Snowden had been actually smuggled onto President Morales’ plane on July 2.

At no stage had anyone raised the likelihood of it being unfounded until after the plane had landed at Schwechat Airport later the same day, and it was discovered that Snowden was not, after all, actually on board.

But even then it wasn’t until two days later! (on July 4, and one day after Morales had returned to Bolivia) that the issue of Moscow’s airports was even raised at all, and by AFP (Agence France-Presse) in a   report (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news./130704/russia-condemns-france-spain-portugal-blocking-moraless-flight-0) from Moscow:

“Security analysts in Moscow said Morales could not have taken Snowden even if he had wanted to, because the US fugitive was staying in Sheremetyevo international airport and is being denied access past Russian passport control [and] Morales's plane left from another international airport on the other end of Moscow called Vnukovo...” (My emphases added.)

Had any self-respecting journalist taken the trouble to investigate the rumour when it was first aired,
and had France, Spain, Italy and Portugal been inclined to similarly question the rumour’s authenticity,
the Bolivian Presidential jet wouldn’t have been diverted from its original flight plan—and an international diplomatic incident and a backlash against the US would not have occurred.  ::)

So, to Hillary Clinton I’d say, “Ma’am, ignoring details, no matter at what point, does indeed make a difference.”

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 05:11:11 AM
Unfortunately Paul you are quite right. :-*
Thanks, Jess, and I apologise for stepping in as I did.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 05:14:56 AM
But, at the very least, the stories we are told, are all too often the product of convenience.
At the very least, perhaps.

Quote from: Tony_
Sorry for wandering Paul. Into what may seem historical eccentricities.
Your wandering was fine with me, Tony.

Quote from: Tony_
But your post questioning the Snowden story triggered some my  usual, and yet does support what we should all have: a healthy skepticism.  And, of course, where we lack that, there is always Doodler  :D.
A healthy skepticism is indeed a good thing, Tony, as long as it’s actually healthy, and not a spouting of bile because someone personally doesn’t like something.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 05:44:49 AM

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
To know your enemy, you must become your enemy.

Sun Tzu
I was very intrigued by the use of this aphorism in connection with a discussion about the friendship of Angela Merkel and Barack Obama, a friendship which each had (apparently) freely acknowledged.

Aphorisms are prone not only to misapplication, but also to misinterpretation, and this one appears to be a particularly ambiguous choice.

I would have thought that keeping one’s friends close would exclude snooping on them without their knowledge, so perhaps what is meant is that America considers Germany to be an enemy which it should “keep closer” than a friend.

Then there’s Sun Tzu’s second sentence to consider.

While the US hasn’t publicly announced that Germany is its enemy, it’s done so, both frequently and loudly, regarding terrorism.

This seems to be a more apt interpretation of the aphorism, and certainly so as the US has also explained that the covert surveillance undertaken by the NSA is to uncover equally covert terrorist plots designed to undermine if not destroy America.

In other words, in order to know its enemy (terrorism), the US must become its enemy.
i.e. The US has itself become a terrorist.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 05:59:18 AM
Like they're [i.e. the “nations getting their panties in a bunch” referred to by brokebacktom] not doing exactly the same thing.
Maybe they are, maybe they’re not, but if they are it’s certainly not to the same extent as the US, or with anything like the same level of sophistication.

In Germany (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story-how-nsa-spied-on-merkel-cell-phone-from-berlin-embassy-a-930205-3.html) alone, for instance,

“high-level government officials admit America’s technical capabilities are in many ways superior to what exists in Germany.
At its Domestic Intelligence Agency, for example, not even every employee has a computer with an Internet connection.”

Although I’ve yet to hear what’s happening with France’s "panties," 70 million phone calls per month were (allegedly) spied upon in France by the NSA.

But the real issue, as I see it, appears to be not whether other nations are doing what the US is doing, but that NSA agents in 80 locations world-wide [19 of which are in Europe—cities such as Paris, Madrid, Rome, Prague and Geneva—including two in Germany itself, in Berlin and Frankfurt] are involved in covert global surveillance, not only of foreign nationals in other countries (as well as US citizens in other countries) but also of government administration personnel of "purported allies."

So I think it's a bit rich to say that these "other nations" are "doing exactly the same thing," frankly.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 06:04:55 AM

Quote from: doodler
And how dumb are they to be talking important secret stuff on cell phones, for god's sake?
As far as Germany is concerned, Angela Merkel, according to Der Spiegel (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/cover-story-how-nsa-spied-on-merkel-cell-phone-from-berlin-embassy-a-930205.html), uses her mobile phone mainly “to communicate with party members, ministers and confidants, often by text messages” and switches to a secure landline for “very delicate conversations.”

I don’t know what “other nations” might be doing and—unless you have a reliable source of information about their actions—neither do you.

Quote from: doodler
I think behind the reporters' backs everyone is snickering at the big act they're ALL putting on.

You might very well think that, but I couldn’t possibly comment, to quote Francis Urquhart...

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 06:12:18 AM

I totally agree, Sherry. They are just as guilty.

Perhaps they are guilty, Linda—but surely not as guilty.

Quote from: killersmom
It is a case of "he doth protest too much"!
If they are guilty, and they then find that they've been spied upon—without their knowledge—what would you expect them to do?

Protest slightly?  :D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 06:13:29 AM
Geez, we've had weather since... well, since forever. And we (in the US) have kept "official" records for about 200 years. But considering how long weather has affected the Earth, getting excited because storms and temperatures have been different in the last 10 or even 20 years seems way premature to me. Hey, yeah! icebergs and glaciers are melting... didn't that start at the end of the Ice Age? And before that, at the beginning of the Ice Age, the weather changed from what it had been... bet there was a lot of "Oh my, the storms are getting worse and worse and the weather is getting colder. Bet it's all those campfires the Neanderthals are using, blocking out the sun." Al Gore spins a good tale... that's why he started the internet... but adaptation to change is part of living.

Good tales are the best kind of tales.  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 06:15:36 AM

With regard to Neanderthal campfires, if you look at the figures for carbon emissions over the last 1000 years, (which I did with an IT student once), you can see quite clearly that the only time emissions have gone down was at the time of the Black Death when the population was cut by a third.
I know that isn't the Neanderthal period, but it does indicate to me that if there are too many of us nature will do what it has to do to restore the balance, and that in its turn will lessen the carbon emissions.
Just saying.

Your “Just saying” is far more than that, Jess.  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 01, 2013, 06:35:31 AM
 Paul, your reference to the controversy on Richard III was excellent.
Thank you, Tony.  :)

Quote from: Tony
Strangely enough, that was where I got my start on learning to consider the source and their agendas, with regard to anything.
   As an undergrad, we were assigned "To Prove a Villain", which included dozens of different versions, about Richard III.  What was the point?  Well, the instructor said it was especially of value, owing to the long passage of time, which would prevent us from having prejudices.  A good subject for dissecting propaganda.
Your instructor sounds like someone with his head screwed on the right way.
I'm just guessing he was a male, here.
If I'd said "someone with her head screwed on the right way," who knows what would happen.  :D
Dangerous times, dangerous times...

Quote from: Tony
And studying these historical mysteries have every relevance in assessing the firestorm of information, and disinformaton, we are hit with every day.
   More recent mysteries, of course, are subject to being considered too exotic, and so, we accept, all too often, whatever the party lines are.
I agree with your first sentence, but am a little unsure what the second means...especially "party lines."
Is it a coded reference?

Quote from: Tony
And that's how we get into wars, economic collapses, and the danger of civil disorder.  We don't question.
I'd certainly agree with the last sentence.
It takes someone with good bones and a stout heart to question "canons."  ;)



Catch-up finished, at last—I hope.  ;D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 01, 2013, 11:43:56 AM

I agree with your first sentence, but am a little unsure what the second means...especially "party lines."
Is it a coded reference?
  No coded reference, Paul.  It was a disorganized post.  There was a tweaking to some of the guests that read, here, but never post, but that's a goofy of no interest, other than mentioning old historical misinformation.  It wasn't in code  :D. Probably shouldn't have done it.
  Also, no party lines.  I wasn't even being critical of Mrs. Clinton; just borrowing the phrase she used.
Am glad to see how strongly you, yourself, question news reports.  That was good to read.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 01, 2013, 01:01:36 PM
 WTF ?  The Siberian Times is reporting an American/British surveillance plane stranded in Siberia.  And I thought, oh, no, not another incident.
 But the Times mentioned something called the Open Skies Treaty, something I had never heard of before.  Going To Wikipedia, there it is.  In 2002, 34 countries opened up their air space for surveillance from other countries.
So, Sarah Palin not only can see Russia from her back yard, but  any of us can look upwards and see Russians legally spying on us?  And Germans, Lithuanians, and the occasional Aussies ?  Add this to the NSA snooping and, it seems to me, it's all gone whack-bat.
  But, on the other hand, it is interesting to get expanded news coverage.  I highly recommend adding the Times, to anyone's Facebook likes.  They don't overwhelm your news feed, and the photos are extremely creative and interesting.  And they aren't government propaganda in English. They seem to have every freedom.  Outside of FB, it would be The SiberianTimes.com.  Also, I especially recommend this site for those who appreciate artistic photography.
  The stranded snoopers are getting hot meals and beds, until the plane is fixed.  And, given the party-hardy ways of the Siberians, possibly having a dalliance or two  :).
  I wonder if some of our provincials would extend the same courtesy to any random foreigners landing out in the corn fields or peanut farms?  Of course, they might drop in to the East Village, and, there, all bets are off  :D.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on November 01, 2013, 05:23:43 PM
more thoughts on the spying:

How stupid do these European rulers really think the rest of the world are? That we won't notice their blinding, multi-layered hypocrisy over this issue? Specifically, do they really think we're unaware that they themselves routinely bug each other (and the rest of the world), and thus can't be surprised that America does the same to them?

Or what about their pre-emptive rejection of the whistleblower, Edward Snowden's asylum application, even though it was he who had sacrificed everything to reveal the staggering scale of these activities by his government? Or their deliberate humiliation of President Evo Morales, whom they suspected of sheltering Snowden, at the behest of the same US government they now pretend to be furious with?

Still, I would be willing to ignore the insincerity of their outrage if they would immediately offer Snowden his human right to asylum (which would end his understandable angst over his uncertain future in Russia), and issue an unreserved apology to President Morales for his shameful mistreatment.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 01, 2013, 09:58:11 PM
ORRRR he could stand up for his principles and come back to the US and state his case before a jury of his peers in a court of law.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on November 02, 2013, 12:34:12 AM
If they are guilty, and they then find that they've been spied upon—without their knowledge—what would you expect them to do?

Protest slightly?  :D

I was not referring to the amount of protest, Paul, but to "trying to say that if someone puts too much energy into saying something is true, it almost makes you believe that they are lying."

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on November 02, 2013, 09:50:18 AM
I was not referring to the amount of protest, Paul, but to "trying to say that if someone puts too much energy into saying something is true, it almost makes you believe that they are lying."

It crosses my mind that in addition to any legitimate concerns, those European leaders who are protesting so much have to play to their own constituencies, too. I mean, what was Angela Merkel supposed to do? Meekly tell the Germans that she didn't care? Of course they all have to protest.

Meanwhile, we are hearing that us U.S. voters are angry at the President and the Democrats because of the fiasco of the Affordable Care Act roll-out. Not so long ago we heard that us voters are angry at the Republicans in Congress for causing the government shut-down.

The President is in his last term anyway, and I wouldn't count out the Democratic Party because of the roll-out problems. This isn't going to deliver the government into the hands of the Tea Party Republicans.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 02, 2013, 11:59:55 AM
I think there is some open space between what we know and what they try to make us believe....
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on November 02, 2013, 02:52:06 PM
I think there is some open space between what we know and what they try to make us believe....

Boy, howdy!
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 02, 2013, 03:32:28 PM
  The gap is rapidly closing in the Virginia governor's race, at least according to some polls.  If the Democrat loses, I believe it's because Obama began campaigning for him, at a time when the Prez has dropped way low in approval ratings.
  A lot of pols are looking to the outcome, to see what the trend is for 2014.  The Dems had a 12 point lead.  It may have vanished.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 02, 2013, 04:47:26 PM
For almost 100 years, VA's governors were Democrats, but since 1970 they seem to have alternated with Republicans with one party being in office 2-3 terms followed by the other for 2-3 terms. Republican McDonnell has only been in office since the last election. He was preceded by Democrats Kaine and Warner for one term each and before that there was 8 years of GOP, then 12 years of Dems, then 12 of Reps. Having a Republican win this time would fit the pattern.

Tennessee had Democrat governors for 50 years, then, starting in 1971, it has alternated with Republican governors.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 03, 2013, 07:36:53 AM
So nice to see your defence of poor maligned Richard III, Paul.
I have been reading a great deal about "Good King Richard" in recent months since the discovery of his skeleton in Leicester.
I find it very hard to watch even a clip of Laurence Olivier in the Shakespeare play now it has all been proved to be such nonsense
It’s not poor Larry’s fault that his Richard was a deformed villain, Jess.
It was the screenwriter’s fault for relying on an unreliable source.  :D

And even McKellen’s portrayal (albeit minus hunchback, withered arm and limp—mere physical details, after all) was still William’s version of the character.

Quote from: janjo
Back to the historians logic, "Who said it," "Why," "What's in it for them?"
It is a good rule to apply to any information really.
And a very good rule, too—one especially applicable where historical figures are concerned.

When (or if) a film is ever made about Edward Snowden, for instance, I wonder how the script will deal with the issue of his “Escape from Russia” on a Bolivian presidential jet.
I suspect, though, that it’d have to be an independent film.
If Hollywood-financed, where the $ rules, who knows how it might turn out?

The depiction of fictional characters, however, is another matter, and “dependent” (of course) upon what an author might include in the text.

For instance, Austen, perhaps wisely, restricted her physical description of Elizabeth Bennet to only a few hints (she was “pretty”—but less so than her sister, Jane—and had “dark sparkling eyes”) which enabled her to be portrayed onscreen by actresses such as Greer Garson, Elizabeth Garvie, Jennifer Ehle and Keira Knightley on film, and by numerous others on television.

Do you see where I’m going with this?  ;)  :D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 03, 2013, 07:53:43 AM

I thought I’d comment on the climate change issue which was discussed recently in a number of posts (and credit goes to Tony (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=47165.msg2441791#msg2441791) for its introduction).

In summary, the points raised appear to be (but I could be wrong) that:

     • less important issues are deflecting attention away from global ones;
     • it’s our own fault if our species is destroyed;
     • we’re basically no more important than a virus, so if we disappear it won’t matter in the scheme of things;
     • it’s cyclical and has happened before, so it’s Nature’s way of healing the planet/restoring its balance; and
     • we’re unable, as individuals to do anything about it, so why not just accept it.

I feel that just sitting on our collective backsides is defeatist, and while we individually might not have any control over the direction in which the world appears to be heading it’s at least possible to discuss the issue here with some sense of the impact global warming will have upon the planet, rather than to imply, for one reason or another, that’s it’s really not important.

I wonder whether those, both here and elsewhere, who think that it really doesn’t matter whether human beings are made extinct have informed their children, and their children’s children, if any, not only that human life isn’t important in “the scheme of things,” but also that they (and the rest of humanity) are only as important as some random virus.

I also wonder, had they done so, how their children (and their grandchildren) reacted to their parents’ (and their grandparents’) news.

Of course, if someone is childless, the situation might be, “So what, I’m going to die before the human race is made extinct anyway.”
Which is fair enough, I suppose... But such people (presumably) would have siblings, and have nephews, nieces, and so on, down the generations.


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 03, 2013, 08:20:01 AM

Being aware that long posts aren’t exactly the preferred posting method here I include a link (http://www.greenbiz.com/blog/2013/10/01/7-things-know-about-new-un-climate-change-report) to the most recent report (Climate Change 2013: The Physical Science Basis, released in an unedited form on Monday, 30 September) of the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the fifth since the IPCC's creation in 1988 on the science of climate change.  It contains details of the seven points listed below.

These reports are published every five to seven years, and are “the work of several hundred scientists from around the world who summarize the current understanding of all aspects of climate change research. Thousands of other scientists review the summary, after which the IPCC publishes a comprehensive report, which synthesize findings from thousands of research studies. Almost 200 countries are involved in the process. The IPCC also publishes reports that provide potential options for climate change mitigation and adaptation. The creators of the fourth IPCC report collectively were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007.”

7 things to know about the new UN climate change report:

There are seven key findings on the state of the science of climate change:

     1. It is virtually certain that the planet has warmed since the mid-20th century.

     2. Scientists are more confident than ever that humans are responsible.

     3. Further warming is imminent, and short-term records do not reflect long-term climate trends.

     4. The surface could warm anywhere from 2.7°F to 7.2°F by 2100, relative to pre-1900 conditions.

     5. The melting pace of land ice is accelerating in the Arctic and Antarctica, and sea levels could rise by more than 3 feet by 2100 if greenhouse gas emissions are unchecked.

     6. The IPCC's estimates of temperature and sea level rise are conservative.

     7. Weather extremes are expected to change from human influence.


The report is over 2000 pages long and cites 9200 scientific publications.
The full, edited report will be released online in January 2014 and published by Cambridge University Press later that year.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: janjo on November 03, 2013, 10:23:32 AM
I thought I’d comment on the climate change issue which was discussed recently in a number of posts (and credit goes to Tony (http://www.davecullen.com/forum/index.php?topic=47165.msg2441791#msg2441791) for its introduction).

In summary, the points raised appear to be (but I could be wrong) that:

     • less important issues are deflecting attention away from global ones;
     • it’s our own fault if our species is destroyed;
     • we’re basically no more important than a virus, so if we disappear it won’t matter in the scheme of things;
     • it’s cyclical and has happened before, so it’s Nature’s way of healing the planet/restoring its balance; and
     • we’re unable, as individuals to do anything about it, so why not just accept it.

I feel that just sitting on our collective backsides is defeatist, and while we individually might not have any control over the direction in which the world appears to be heading it’s at least possible to discuss the issue here with some sense of the impact global warming will have upon the planet, rather than to imply, for one reason or another, that’s it’s really not important.

I wonder whether those, both here and elsewhere, who think that it really doesn’t matter whether human beings are made extinct have informed their children, and their children’s children, if any, not only that human life isn’t important in “the scheme of things,” but also that they (and the rest of humanity) are only as important as some random virus.

I also wonder, had they done so, how their children (and their grandchildren) reacted to their parents’ (and their grandparents’) news.

Of course, if someone is childless, the situation might be, “So what, I’m going to die before the human race is made extinct anyway.”
Which is fair enough, I suppose... But such people (presumably) would have siblings, and have nephews, nieces, and so on, down the generations.




I agree with you, Paul.
In the great scheme of things, I am not important, human life is not important, the planet will adjust itself and get on without me, but, I am important to me, my children and grandchildren are important to me, my friends and family are important to me, the culture associated with human civilization, our history, our writers, William Shakespeare, (come on William, don't be pressured by those Tudor propagandists  :D), and Jane Austen are important to me, our arts and everything about our lives here and now, are important to me.
We must not let our actions destroy all of this because of stupidity and greed, something we are in danger of doing.
We are clever enough to avoid it, but do we have the will?
Nature is far more powerful than we are, we should be afraid for our own sakes of tweaking her tail.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 03, 2013, 10:59:28 AM
How egotistical to think WE are what must last as if we've done something besides destroy the Earth's air and water.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on November 03, 2013, 11:23:16 AM
What post are you referring to? I'm not sure who you think is being egotistical.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 03, 2013, 11:46:27 AM
We. Humans.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 03, 2013, 12:51:33 PM
 It seems to me the question of our place in the "grand scheme of things" is going to go wrong, because there are different paradigms in play, that probably intersect, somewhere.
  The Ozymandian absurdity is attractive to those who see us as of no consequence (Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair, and the sand stretched empty all around).
  Then there's the Judeo-Christian insistence on creation being the playing field created by God for us. And Jesus emphasizing extreme importance to each person (the Father knows the very number of the hairs on your head).  And yet, "Dust thou art...etc." touching upon the apparent opposite.
  The paradigms relevant to this question each support radically different points of view, but, IMO, they each have some plausibility and are only fragments of a larger truth which, we just don't happen to be able to know or prove.
  I just, myself, think it's safer, from either a metaphysical/faith direction, or from secular humanism, to not collapse into a nothing matters syndrome.  The latter is attractive, when convenient, or in despair, but could undermine the human journey.
 What that journey is, or for what purpose (if any), I wouldn't claim to know from certainty.  I just think something is going on, and, saying this as a metaphor, rather than as choosing a paradigm, it is better to be on the side of the angels.
   Finally, viruses, rocks, and sub-atomic particles do not love, or grieve.  We ARE different.  But where that leads to, is an entirely different question.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on November 03, 2013, 12:55:54 PM
Thank you, Tony. I like what you say.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 03, 2013, 01:12:50 PM
And you know "viruses, rocks, and sub-atomic particles do not love, or grieve" because...?
I suppose it is not possible that there is anything we humans do not know, nothing new to be learned, no replacement dominant species waiting in the wings to take over after the current one has wiped itself out.
Fear not, social media will live on whether humans are here to appreciate it or not until the world explodes into nothingness.

If I were The Creator, I'd be rethinking this free will business.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 03, 2013, 02:33:13 PM
Thank you, Tony. I like what you say.
  Thanks, Sara, for the encouragement !
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 03, 2013, 02:43:08 PM
......And you know "viruses, rocks, and sub-atomic particles do not love, or grieve" because...?
  Probably because I didn't get the memo from the Nihilistic Ashram of Bangkor.  I'll check my spam folder, but, they never liked me anyway, so, maybe dropped me off the list.

  Curiously, Sherry, there was a Jesuit scientist in the 1950's, Pierre Teilhardt de Chardin (sp?), who, as a propounder of evolution, was ok with the Vatican.  But he then moved into philosphy, and was exploring the strangeness of humanity, composed of material knick-knacks, having identity and consciousness.  Under the dubious watchfulness of the Church, he crossed the line into proposing that God was entering ALL of the material world, gradually.  He had the cocktail party elite wild for him.
  Anyway, the mind boggles.  Candle-light vigils and requiem masses for bugs?  People for the Ethical Treatment of Neutrinos? Somebody hep me, please  :P......
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 03, 2013, 03:20:04 PM
Well, the earth used to be flat.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on November 03, 2013, 03:37:23 PM
Well, the earth used to be flat.

Resting on the back of a giant turtle.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 03, 2013, 05:41:34 PM
  Fritz has a turtle.  I wonder if that's the one resolving the paradigms?  Or just innocently munching on canteloupe  :).
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 03, 2013, 06:47:12 PM
I was not referring to the amount of protest, Paul, but to "trying to say that if someone puts too much energy into saying something is true, it almost makes you believe that they are lying."
When Gertrude says to Hamlet, about the Player Queen, that “The lady doth protest too much, methinks,” she’s saying that the actress sounds insincere because she’s overdoing it (about not remarrying after the death of her husband, the Player King), that her vows are too elaborate, too insistent, to be taken seriously.

The parallel is that Gertrude has married Hamlet’s uncle, Claudius, after he’d killed her husband, Hamlet’s father.
She could also be cynically implying that such vows are silly in the first place, and is thus indirectly defending her own remarriage.

Had the Player Queen been less insistent about promising to not remarry she would have sounded more sincere, which was the point I was making before:

Whether the unspecified European nations to whom you were referring would have (in your opinion) sounded more sincere had their reactions to being spied upon without their knowledge been less insistent.

I would have thought that a muted response would have suggested that they were indeed guilty.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 03, 2013, 06:50:25 PM
It crosses my mind that in addition to any legitimate concerns, those European leaders who are protesting so much have to play to their own constituencies, too. I mean, what was Angela Merkel supposed to do? Meekly tell the Germans that she didn't care? Of course they all have to protest.
I agree. It does seem to be a case of being found guilty whether they objected or whether they didn’t.

The real issue is that the US, with all its sophisticated surveillance technology, bungled, and was caught out.
It would have been ironic had the situation been reversed, and it was discovered that President Obama’s phone was being tapped—without his knowledge—by German intelligence.

Imagine the reaction from the offended party if that had been the case.  ::)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on November 03, 2013, 07:52:05 PM
  Fritz has a turtle.  I wonder if that's the one resolving the paradigms?  Or just innocently munching on canteloupe  :).

He's been eating cantaloupe since yesterday. Before that it was cucumber.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 05, 2013, 03:08:57 PM
 Got back from voting, a couple of hours ago.  Turn-out is light to moderate, but, indications so far are that the Democrat will win for governor of the Commonwealth.  Which would be a big slap in the face to the Tea Party, whose creature he is.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on November 05, 2013, 03:10:35 PM
Got back from voting, a couple of hours ago.  Turn-out is light to moderate, but, indications so far are that the Democrat will win for governor of the Commonwealth.  Which would be a big slap in the face to the Tea Party, whose creature he is.

I hope so. If it is not, then the Dems will suffer in the 2014 elections.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on November 05, 2013, 03:37:29 PM
just got a new job. they cut benefits. NO Healthcare. I went to look for an individual coverage. The cheapest I could fine was $167.50 a month. Can't afford it. What can I do? I'm scared.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on November 05, 2013, 04:59:45 PM
Amen, Tony.

From what I've been hearing, overall turnout has been above average for this off-off-year election.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on November 05, 2013, 05:00:47 PM
Tom, can you determine yet whether you'll qualify for any of the subsidies under the ACA?

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 05, 2013, 05:58:55 PM
S167 a MONTH? That's the cheapest I've ever heard of.

And I doubt this election is going to foreshadow anything. Not a big enough sample. It's like the flipping of a coin... if you do it just once and it comes up heads, it doesn't mean it will the next time.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on November 05, 2013, 07:34:44 PM
S167 a MONTH? That's the cheapest I've ever heard of.

And I doubt this election is going to foreshadow anything. Not a big enough sample. It's like the flipping of a coin... if you do it just once and it comes up heads, it doesn't mean it will the next time.

but i can't afford it.  i'll have cut somewhere but where? I refinance beginning of this year, so that helped. Save $150.00/month. I really don't know what to do?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on November 05, 2013, 09:34:16 PM
but i can't afford it.  i'll have cut somewhere but where? I refinance beginning of this year, so that helped. Save $150.00/month. I really don't know what to do?

So, Tom, here are some questions.
How large is the company for whom your currently went to work?
Did you apply for coverage through your State exchange?
If you can't afford the plan you chose, (if through the exchange), do you qualify for a subsidy?
If you do not qualify for the subsidy, which as I understand it is a tax credit which  may be useless if you don't make enough to need a tax credit, then why would you not qualify for the Medicaid option?  

The ACA is supposed to be designed to assist those who are in your situation.
I am not being facetious and I certainly do not pretend to understand the ACA (that may sound facetious but, trust me, it is not).  I am sincerely interested.  Why is this not working for you?  
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on November 05, 2013, 09:55:51 PM
Here is an article that kind of, sort of, explains the problem Tom may be facing.  It uses California as a template but Tom's situation should not be too much different. If it is different, then what is the difference and why is the ACA not working for him?
http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Lower-2014-income-can-net-huge-health-care-subsidy-4891087.php (http://www.sfgate.com/business/networth/article/Lower-2014-income-can-net-huge-health-care-subsidy-4891087.php)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on November 06, 2013, 05:27:36 AM
Got back from voting, a couple of hours ago.  Turn-out is light to moderate, but, indications so far are that the Democrat will win for governor of the Commonwealth.  Which would be a big slap in the face to the Tea Party, whose creature he is.

McAuliffe wins nailbiter Virginia governor's race

"A bitter, divisive race between Democrat Terry McAuliffe and Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli is over and it turned out to be a nailbiter.  McAuliffe defeated Cuccinelli in a surprisingly razor-thin 47-46 percent victory to become Virginia's next governor, breaking a long Virginia tradition going back to 1977 of voting for a governor from the opposing party of the sitting president.

~        ~        ~        ~

"According to exit polls, both McAuliffe and Cuccinelli did very well among their own partisans - each getting more than nine in 10 votes from members of their own parties. Cuccinelli had a nine-point edge among independents, who make up three in 10 voters in Virginia. But McAuliffe did better than Cuccinelli in getting out his base: slightly more voters described themselves as Democrats (37 percent) than Republicans (32 percent).  McAuliffe also won among voters under 45 and college graduates - both groups that McDonnell won four years ago - and he led among moderates (22 points) and women (9 points)."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57611013/mcauliffe-wins-nailbiter-virginia-governors-race/

(The rest is a fairly lengthy summary)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 06, 2013, 05:36:00 AM
I agree with you, Paul.
Thanks, Jess.

Quote from: janjo
In the great scheme of things, I am not important, human life is not important, the planet will adjust itself and get on without me, but, I am important to me, my children and grandchildren are important to me, my friends and family are important to me, the culture associated with human civilization, our history, our writers, William Shakespeare, (come on William, don't be pressured by those Tudor propagandists  :D), and Jane Austen are important to me, our arts and everything about our lives here and now, are important to me.
I’m delighted to know that you’re not a nihilist, Jess.  :D

Unlike Macbeth, who after hearing of his wife’s suicide, says that human life has no meaning or purpose and whose pessimism leads him to say that life itself is “but a walking shadow,” insubstantial, a nothing.
In a way, his speech could also possibly be seen as being rather defensive, even self-justifying, in that his crimes also “signify nothing.” (Which is open to argument, of course.)

If so, perhaps it’s also the approach taken by others who are, perhaps, presently unaware of the consequences of their deeds.

I recently came across a site (Countercurrents.org) in which Mary Hamer (http://www.countercurrents.org/hamer140510.htm) deplores the way that the earth’s crust is being imperilled by the building of massive reservoirs, the injection of toxic and nuclear waste, underwater nuclear bomb tests on ocean sea beds, drilling to extract oil, fracking and the erection of immense skyscrapers.

The Taipei 101 tower, for instance, currently the tallest building on earth, with a weight of 700 thousand tons of steel and concrete, was constructed only 600 feet from an ancient fault line, and has, as reported in The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2005/dec/02/naturaldisasters.climatechange),

“raised concerns about similar man-made megastructures as it’s thought to have triggered two recent earthquakes because of the stress it exerts on the ground beneath.”

According to the geologist Cheng Horng Lin, from the National Taiwan Normal University, the stress from the skyscraper may have reopened an ancient earthquake fault.
Before the construction of Taipei 101, the Taipei basin was a very stable area with no active earthquake faults at the surface. Its earthquake activity was similar to parts of the UK, with micro-earthquakes (less than magnitude 2) happening about once a year.

However, once Taipei 101 started to rise from the ground, things changed. “The number of earthquakes increased to around two micro-earthquakes per year during the construction period (1997 to 2003). Since the construction finished there have been two larger earthquakes (magnitude 3.8 and 3.2) directly beneath Taipei 101...” says Dr Lin.

Despite its excessive capitalisation, Hamer’s article, “The Rape Of The Earth And The Human Ego,” is worth reading for the connection she makes with such things as human-induced earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic and other seismic-related activity.

Quote from: janjo
We must not let our actions destroy all of this because of stupidity and greed, something we are in danger of doing.
We are clever enough to avoid it, but do we have the will?
If the evidence of current “progress” is anything to go by, I'd doubt it, Jess.


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 06, 2013, 06:01:09 AM
Nature is far more powerful than we are, we should be afraid for our own sakes of tweaking her tail.
I agree with you, Jess.
Unfortunately, though, when I earlier wondered whether those who think that it doesn’t matter whether human beings are made extinct had informed their children and grandchildren that human life was no more important than a random virus, they were, sadly, silent.

Talk’s pretty cheap, it would seem, when it’s easy—when the big questions are asked, though, it seems to be a different matter. Perhaps the issue was too intrusive; but, still...

Each of us has a responsibilty to future generations. It’s not our world which will be destroyed (and even that’s open to doubt, at the moment)—it’s theirs.

What the deniers of climate change are declaring by saying human life is insignificant, that it doesn’t matter whether Homo sapiens exists or not, and that it’s egotistical to think we deserve to survive is:

“We don’t care about you. We will be long gone—Oh, and good luck!”

How can anyone look in their childens’ eyes and say that?


...and I've yet to even mention Teilhard de Chardin. Sorry, Tony.  :)  

Let alone the concept of “The Grand Scheme of Things.”

Apparently something engraved in stone, also known as “The Easy Way Out.”  :D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on November 06, 2013, 07:37:46 AM
So, Tom, here are some questions.
How large is the company for whom your currently went to work?
Did you apply for coverage through your State exchange?
If you can't afford the plan you chose, (if through the exchange), do you qualify for a subsidy?
If you do not qualify for the subsidy, which as I understand it is a tax credit which  may be useless if you don't make enough to need a tax credit, then why would you not qualify for the Medicaid option?  

The ACA is supposed to be designed to assist those who are in your situation.
I am not being facetious and I certainly do not pretend to understand the ACA (that may sound facetious but, trust me, it is not).  I am sincerely interested.  Why is this not working for you?  


Well, I changed jobs. I'm trying to get into the Medical Field, Medical receptionist. But with NO luck. Not enough experience. Loved my internship at a clinic. They loved me too. But with no luck either. I got this Medical Assembly job thru a temp service. This temp service offered benefits. The reason I took it. With the new ASA law they changed it and it really doesn't meet the ASA requirements for Healthcare. So, they told to look for a private source. I also took this job because it was a second shift, so I could donate some time in the afternoon at a clinic in order to get experience. I have a more paying jobs with benefits starting next month in order to advance my job in the medical field. I really don't know what to do now? I'm on my last nerve and to top it off it coming to the year anniversary of my mother's death. Its actually tomorrow.  So, I'm in a pickle.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on November 06, 2013, 07:46:30 AM
Unlike Macbeth, who after hearing of his wife’s suicide, says that human life has no meaning or purpose and whose pessimism leads him to say that life itself is “but a walking shadow,” insubstantial, a nothing.

You left out my personal favorite part: "a tale told by an idiot."  ;D

 ;)

Meanwhile, speaking of elections, I'm personally aware of something here in Pennsylvania during the run-up that I thought was unusual. Over the weekend I was talking to my dad, and I mentioned that I had received a recorded phone call from former Democratic Gov. Ed Rendell urging me to vote for the retention of the incumbent Chief Justice of the state Supreme Court. My dad replied that he had received a recorded phone call from former Republican Gov. Tom Ridge urging the same thing!  :o

(I would have voted to retain him anyway. He's a former Philadelphia District Attorney, and I approve of him. He was retained.)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 06, 2013, 08:28:21 AM

News from the BBC:

Concentrations of warming gases break record

(http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/rasalgethi_photo/News%20Thread%202013/News%20Thread%20November%202013/an_oil_refinery_at_night_zps9063807b.jpg)

The levels of gases in the atmosphere that drive global warming increased to a record high in 2012.
According to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), atmospheric CO2 grew more rapidly last year than its average rise over the past decade.
Concentrations of methane and nitrous oxide also broke previous records.


Since 1750, global average levels of CO2 in the atmosphere have increased to 141% of the pre-industrial concentration of 278 parts per million (ppm).

The observations highlight yet again how heat-trapping gases from human activities have upset the natural balance of our atmosphere and are a major contribution to climate change,” said WMO Secretary-General Michel Jarraud.

The more we delay action the bigger the risk we cannot stay under the 2 degree Celsius limit that countries have agreed,” he said.

Scientists believe that the new data indicates that global warming will be back with a vengeance, after a slowdown in the rate of temperature increases over the past 14 years.

“The laws of physics and chemistry are not negotiable,” said Michel Jarraud.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24833148

This statement was of particular interest, I thought:

Recent research indicates that the rate of increase in emissions might be slowing down, but the gases can continue to concentrate in the atmosphere and exert a climate influence for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

We can live with that, I suppose—I mean, after all, none of us will be around then (and as it's all part of The Grand Scheme of Things), who really cares?

Is that the consensus here, or merely a minority view?   ;D

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 06, 2013, 08:43:13 AM
You left out my personal favorite part: "a tale told by an idiot."  ;D

 ;)

Sorry about that, Jeff.  :)

Yes, Life is indeed a tale told by an idiot—according to Macbeth, anyway...


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on November 06, 2013, 10:05:09 AM
Sorry about that, Jeff.  :)

Yes, Life is indeed a tale told by an idiot—according to Macbeth, anyway...

NP, Friend!  :D
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 06, 2013, 11:08:57 AM

Well, I changed jobs. I'm trying to get into the Medical Field, Medical receptionist. But with NO luck. Not enough experience. Loved my internship at a clinic. They loved me too. But with no luck either. I got this Medical Assembly job thru a temp service. This temp service offered benefits. The reason I took it. With the new ASA law they changed it and it really doesn't meet the ASA requirements for Healthcare. So, they told to look for a private source. I also took this job because it was a second shift, so I could donate some time in the afternoon at a clinic in order to get experience. I have a more paying jobs with benefits starting next month in order to advance my job in the medical field. I really don't know what to do now? I'm on my last nerve and to top it off it coming to the year anniversary of my mother's death. Its actually tomorrow.  So, I'm in a pickle.

Tom, are you in reasonably good health right now? If so, you can probably relax some. Stressing over what MIGHT happen is going to increase your chances of something happening (since stress lowers your immunity.)  If you are not in good health, maybe you qualify for medical help just based on that. The state where you live should have info on line or via phone about benefits for people with low incomes. When my son was out of work here he got medical help (for kidney stones) from several low income clinics which base their fees on what people can afford to pay.  I raised my kids without health insurance and when I had to have my gall bladder removed a couple years back, I hadn't seen a doctor myself in over 30 years. My family is genetically blessed with good health, which I know doesn't mean anyone else is, and none of us complicate things with smoking or drinking (even moderately) or sky diving, motorcycle racing, etc.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 06, 2013, 11:18:02 AM
I agree with you, Jess.
Unfortunately, though, when I earlier wondered whether those who think that it doesn’t matter whether human beings are made extinct had informed their children and grandchildren that human life was no more important than a random virus, they were, sadly, silent.

Talk’s pretty cheap, it would seem, when it’s easy—when the big questions are asked, though, it seems to be a different matter. Perhaps the issue was too intrusive; but, still...

Each of us has a responsibilty to future generations. It’s not our world which will be destroyed (and even that’s open to doubt, at the moment)—it’s theirs.

What the deniers of climate change are declaring by saying human life is insignificant, that it doesn’t matter whether Homo sapiens exists or not, and that it’s egotistical to think we deserve to survive is:

“We don’t care about you. We will be long gone—Oh, and good luck!”

How can anyone look in their childens’ eyes and say that?


...and I've yet to even mention Teilhard de Chardin. Sorry, Tony.  :)  

Let alone the concept of “The Grand Scheme of Things.”

Apparently something engraved in stone, also known as “The Easy Way Out.”  :D



If this is directed at me, I do not deny climate change. Far from it. I see the same things the sky-is-falling people see. I just believe it is part of a normal cycle and even if it has been accelerated by human activity, it is just no big deal. The earth has been around for millions of years and people have kept track of the weather and climate for a couple hundred so what we know is... nothing. What we imagine is always the worse. And what we matter is of no consequence except in our own minds. It is interesting to me that so many people claim a belief in god or a supreme being that created this world for us and watches over us but is, apparently, not supreme enough... or maybe not interested enough... to save us even from ourselves.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 06, 2013, 11:22:21 AM
McAuliffe wins nailbiter Virginia governor's race

"A bitter, divisive race between Democrat Terry McAuliffe and Republican Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli is over and it turned out to be a nailbiter.  McAuliffe defeated Cuccinelli in a surprisingly razor-thin 47-46 percent victory to become Virginia's next governor, breaking a long Virginia tradition going back to 1977 of voting for a governor from the opposing party of the sitting president.

~        ~        ~        ~

"According to exit polls, both McAuliffe and Cuccinelli did very well among their own partisans - each getting more than nine in 10 votes from members of their own parties. Cuccinelli had a nine-point edge among independents, who make up three in 10 voters in Virginia. But McAuliffe did better than Cuccinelli in getting out his base: slightly more voters described themselves as Democrats (37 percent) than Republicans (32 percent).  McAuliffe also won among voters under 45 and college graduates - both groups that McDonnell won four years ago - and he led among moderates (22 points) and women (9 points)."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57611013/mcauliffe-wins-nailbiter-virginia-governors-race/

(The rest is a fairly lengthy summary)

The Democrat winner won in metropolitan areas. The entire rest of the state went to the Republican. Cuccinelli won over 70% of the vote in the counties on this side of VA.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on November 07, 2013, 10:00:43 PM

Is there an expectation of surprise here, or just a celebration?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on November 08, 2013, 01:17:32 PM
As a Virginian, more one of relief.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 09, 2013, 03:27:38 AM
It seems to me the question of our place in the "grand scheme of things" is going to go wrong, because there are different paradigms in play, that probably intersect, somewhere.
  The Ozymandian absurdity is attractive to those who see us as of no consequence (Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair, and the sand stretched empty all around).
When the grand scheme of things was introduced a few pages back it was raised to support the idea that global warming and climate change was part of an ongoing cyclical process in the history of the planet, that it had happened before and in the long run it didn’t matter whether the human species survived the events predicted to occur over the next few decades and into the twenty-second century.

The idea that such a “scheme” exists is not new, but it’s a fallacious belief, an example of begging the question, involving circular reasoning: we’re unimportant in some Grand Scheme of Things in which nothing matters, therefore such a plan—without proof or certain knowledge—does indeed exist.

In the religious sense, the scheme is seen as being that of a deity, one who has a great plan for everything, but the lack of such a plan, even one with a presumed theistic purpose, doesn’t mean that existence is a joke, that life is meaningless, and there’s no reason why a human-invented purpose would be inferior to an unprovable Grand Plan, let alone an equally unprovable one provided by some deity, and to think so is to take a defeatist attitude.

The concept of a Grand Scheme of Things is a human construct, derived from the fact that our species is aware of its own mortality, that each human being is aware, unlike individuals in other species, that one day he/she will die.
That we die does not prove that such a plan exists, and this is what the “traveller from an antique land” is saying when he relates what he saw in the desert.

While even mighty kings are mortal, and the monumental statuary they commission to memorialise their importance must succumb to the ravages of time, to become decayed “colossal wrecks,” Shelley’s 1818 sonnet is essentially acknowledging human mortality, not that there’s a Grand Plan.

Byron, two years earlier, had already taken things further when, in his poem “Darkness,” he presciently foretold not only the end of humanity but also the heat death of the universe, some fifty years before the discovery and formulation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics:

I had a dream, which was not all a dream.

The bright sun was extinguish’d, and the stars

Did wander darkling in the eternal space,

Rayless, and pathless, and the icy earth

Swung blind and blackening in the moonless air...

Its conclusion offers nothing but death and desolation:

...The world was void,
The populous and the powerful–was a lump,

Seasonless, herbless, treeless, manless, lifeless–

A lump of death–a chaos of hard clay.
The rivers, lakes and ocean all stood still,
And nothing stirr'd within their silent depths;
Ships sailorless lay rotting on the sea,
And their masts fell down piecemeal: as they dropp'd
They slept on the abyss without a surge—
The waves were dead; the tides were in their grave,
The moon, their mistress, had expir'd before;
The winds were wither'd in the stagnant air,
And the clouds perish'd; Darkness had no need
Of aid from them—She was the Universe.

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173081

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 09, 2013, 03:37:25 AM
 Then there's the Judeo-Christian insistence on creation being the playing field created by God for us. And Jesus emphasizing extreme importance to each person (the Father knows the very number of the hairs on your head).  And yet, "Dust thou art...etc." touching upon the apparent opposite.
A variation on The Grand Scheme of Things, Tony, another convenient supposition designed to provide comfort.
As I said, “...also known as “The Easy Way Out.”

Quote from: Tony_
 The paradigms relevant to this question each support radically different points of view, but, IMO, they each have some plausibility and are only fragments of a larger truth which, we just don't happen to be able to know or prove.
Although Teilhard de Chardin’s philosophy is too complex to raise here it’s tempting to suggest that his was a view of a “larger truth.”

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 09, 2013, 03:39:35 AM
 I just, myself, think it's safer, from either a metaphysical/faith direction, or from secular humanism, to not collapse into a nothing matters syndrome.  The latter is attractive, when convenient, or in despair, but could undermine the human journey.
Agreed, but thinking that nothing matters might be a convenient way of dealing with life...

Quote from: Tony_
  What that journey is, or for what purpose (if any), I wouldn't claim to know from certainty.  I just think something is going on, and, saying this as a metaphor, rather than as choosing a paradigm, it is better to be on the side of the angels.
Do I detect a subtle reference to a deity here?  :)


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on November 09, 2013, 06:22:18 AM
As a Virginian, more one of relief.



That I can understand.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on November 09, 2013, 06:35:00 AM
That we die does not prove that such a plan exists, and this is what the “traveller from an antique land” is saying when he relates what he saw in the desert.

While even mighty kings are mortal, and the monumental statuary they commission to memorialise their importance must succumb to the ravages of time, to become decayed “colossal wrecks,” Shelley’s 1818 sonnet is essentially acknowledging human mortality, not that there’s a Grand Plan.

That might be a contentious issue to those at the time who believed in the divine right of kings; but IMO the fragments of ruined statuary, combined with the now-unknown ruler's boast, illustrates how transitory human power is.  Any change in that has been only in one direction; i.e., the ability to destroy and make unlivable whole parts of the earth, or the entire planet, has been a reality for six decades at least.  Human technology, including but not limited to nuclear weaponry has made that possible, which is why the faux humility displayed in skepticism about the human role in global warming (i.e., ''oh, it's just so arrogant to think that human beings could change the course of climate patterns') is either grossly ignorant or grossly dishonest.  But we don't have the ability to go in the other direction undo it or rebuild what was destroyed once the destruction has happened.   

What it also suggests is the futility of trying to construct a kind of quasi-immortality by imagining that instead of a personal existence after physical death, immortality can be understood to be the person "living on" in the memory of survivors.  There are people who were famous and celebrated millenia ago whose names we don't even know; for most of us, the memory vanishes in only a few generations.  Even when religious teachings make honoring ancestors a priority, war and other regional/global upheavals can scatter those to the winds.  Oral history has managed to transcend that in some cases, but that, too, can be lost.  The vast majority of people ever born have become totally obscure very quickly.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on November 09, 2013, 07:43:24 AM
.... Macbeth, who after hearing of his wife’s suicide, says that human life has no meaning or purpose and whose pessimism leads him to say that life itself is “but a walking shadow,” insubstantial, a nothing.
In a way, his speech could also possibly be seen as being rather defensive, even self-justifying, in that his crimes also “signify nothing.” (Which is open to argument, of course.)



Ah, Macbeth - happy memories of learning chunks of it, aged 15, for O Level exams.

That whole context of that speech:

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more...

is a brilliant negative response to the perennial problem of "Why are we all here anyway?" (although hopefully most of us don't have as much on our consciences as Macbeth did).  I have no idea why we are here - but we are, so just have to do our best with it.

Yes, I think we are at least partly responsible for global warming, and yes, we do need to consider future generations, especially in our production of damaging emissions, destruction of irreplaceable natural habitats and pollution of all kinds. And as Jess pointed out, levels of CO2 emission have apparently risen continuously even before the industrial revolution, presumably just owing to increasing numbers of humans on our planet, so overpopulation is another vital factor to consider (and not just leaving it to the effects of war, disease, famine and the impact of large asteroids, which we’ve just learnt is more common than previously thought).

But how far should we as individuals actually go in this? Should I feel guilty because I keep my house comfortably warm, drive a car and visit family in Australia, take advantage of technical innovation? How much should this generation sacrifice for the sake of future generations? Do we owe it to ourselves and our creator, if there was one, to try to make the best of the life that we've got?

How do we get the balance right?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on November 09, 2013, 10:44:12 AM
 Oral history has managed to transcend that in some cases, but that, too, can be lost.  The vast majority of people ever born have become totally obscure very quickly.

Annie Proulx does a fine job with this theme in 'Them Old Cowboy Songs".  Yvette and few others of us had an interesting conversation about this a good while ago. 
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on November 09, 2013, 10:45:50 AM

How do we get the balance right?

It just seems to me that, as guests, we should at least attempt to keep the place tidy.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 09, 2013, 02:55:00 PM
..... and there’s no reason why a human-invented purpose would be inferior to an unprovable Grand Plan, let alone an equally unprovable one provided by some deity, and to think so is to take a defeatist attitude.
   Great posts, Paul !  The above caught my attention, as, IMO, reasonable.  But especially so, the constant hammering at meaninglessness is, I also believe, defeatist.
   Sometime, in areas of the unknown, people go into saying nothing can be known.  For example, we do not know if there is intelliigent life elsewhere in the universe, and so some people promptly collapse.  Actually, we DO know something.  It is either a yes or a no, and each has implications.  And I would think the same applies to "meaning".  But collapse into meaninglesness IS a choice, and it has consequences to ourselves and others.
 Another way of putting this is that non-denominational churches are a denomination.  With their own liturgy and theology, as they attempt to escape both.  Better to just say: we don't know, but, meanwhile, do no harm.


It was fun to see where this topic has gone.  And Gary"s abbreviated post cracked me up  :D...
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 09, 2013, 03:18:25 PM
......  The vast majority of people ever born have become totally obscure very quickly.
   The above comes from a very long post which I thought was very near to my own thinking.  And am not disagreeing with the last sentence, above, especially, as it is taken out of context.  But it has variations of interpretation, so it provoked some thoughts:
 - I've read that, because of the demographic curve, over half of the people ever alive, have lived in our own times.  If they are obscure, it's probably because they aren't on the evening news.  By an extension, it is possible to apply that to the other half.  And then go join Planned Parenthood, before the demographics get even more weird  :P.
  It was difficult to explore that last sentence, and, again, as it was written, it was in a different context.  But, standing alone, it touches on many directions, all worthy, but too foreign to the original intent.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 09, 2013, 03:27:00 PM
  Once again, frustrating events around here.  The Coast Guard and Navy had to go rescue some idiots in sailboats, 200 miles off the Virginia Capes, who were in distress, as a huge cold front blew through.
  This time, it was at unusual hazard to the rescuers as they were low on fuel, and had difficulty in balancing a horizon safety level.  This is an advancing cultural illness, where people do whatever they want, and put first responders at risk. I think I heard that they may get cited.  They should be prosecuted !
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 09, 2013, 03:42:47 PM
  Another grump.  The parents of that woman shot in Dearborne, Michigan, are playing the race card, as well as the zero responsibilty card.
  Their daughter had a car accident, and, for reasons unknown, was banging on the door of an elderly man, living alone, at 3:30 in the morning, 2 hours later.  Who shot her.
  Not all the facts are known, and it does need further investigation, but the woman's actions were identical to the methods of the ever-expanding home invasions.
  We can always say he should not have opened his door, but just called 911.  That's what I would have done.  But this requires of the guy that he be ever-alert to the safest possible resolution to the stranger at his door, and also not sleep-groggy.
  Her assumption that everybody has to accomodate her choice at being out late at night, and also assume she is safe, when banging on the door of a total stranger, is part of the new mindless American culture.
  Her parents should not be playing the race card and organizing demonstrations.  And am saying this as someone who believed Trayvon Martin was murdered.  The two cases are opposites, IMO.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on November 09, 2013, 04:00:03 PM
It just seems to me that, as guests, we should at least attempt to keep the place tidy.

If I could like this here, I would!
I so totally agree.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on November 09, 2013, 04:03:28 PM
  Once again, frustrating events around here.  The Coast Guard and Navy had to go rescue some idiots in sailboats, 200 miles off the Virginia Capes, who were in distress, as a huge cold front blew through.
  This time, it was at unusual hazard to the rescuers as they were low on fuel, and had difficulty in balancing a horizon safety level.  This is an advancing cultural illness, where people do whatever they want, and put first responders at risk. I think I heard that they may get cited.  They should be prosecuted !

I totally agree, Tony. With my younger son being in the Coast Guard, and as a avionics technician for the 60 rescue helicopters,  he has to ride with the helicopters when they go out. He has told me numerous stories such as this.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 09, 2013, 06:18:25 PM
I totally agree, Tony. With my younger son being in the Coast Guard, and as a avionics technician for the 60 rescue helicopters,  he has to ride with the helicopters when they go out. He has told me numerous stories such as this.
   I was reading your post, Linda, and, just then, the news had an extended story on the rescued couple.  In their 60's or 70's, they'd sold their home, and bought the boat (which looked to be somewhat large).  Down it went, and I doubt they had equivalent insurance. They were more interested in re-telling their brush with death (they were in the water), with only a somewhat required  and brief thanks to the Coast Guard.
  What is scary is that they have probably reproduced, thus passing on the junk DNA/gene code for mindlessness to several generations  :P.
  Having now gotten their mugs on tv, it is that much harder to cite them for reckless behavior.
 I hope your younger son stays safe from risking too much !  The responders here said it was a risky call for themselves, to continue.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on November 09, 2013, 07:30:44 PM
  What is scary is that they have probably reproduced, thus passing on the junk DNA/gene code for mindlessness to several generations  :P.
  Having now gotten their mugs on tv, it is that much harder to cite them for reckless behavior.
 I hope your younger son stays safe from risking too much !  The responders here said it was a risky call for themselves, to continue.

Thanks Tony! It was more dangerous when he was in Alaska, but a lot of those rescues there were less idiot related. He does not go up on all rescues, there is a rotation, but they do have a lot of practice flights, and last year a whole crew from CG Station Mobile were killed during a practice flight over Mobile Bay. I worry all the time.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 10, 2013, 06:02:16 AM
Finally, viruses, rocks, and sub-atomic particles do not love, or grieve.  We ARE different.  But where that leads to, is an entirely different question.
And you know "viruses, rocks, and sub-atomic particles do not love, or grieve" because...?

We’re different in that, unlike viruses, rocks, and sub-atomic particles, we possess a mammalian brain containing 100 billion neurons, each of which can contact thousands of others through electrochemical pulses via synapses, forming a million new connections every second of our lives, as well as glial cells (outnumbering neurons 10:1), in which the limbic system, a complex series of brain structures such as the thalamus (hippocampus and amygdala) and the hypothalamus and includes nearby structures such as the cingulate gyrus, the ventral tegmental area, the basal ganglia (including the caudate nucleus, the globus pallidus and the substantia nigra) and the prefrontal cortex, wrapped around the brain stem beneath the cerebral cortex, is primarily responsible for emotion formation (such as sexual arousal, pleasure, aggression, anxiety, fear) and visceral and motor responses (but also supports other functions such as cognition and learning, behaviour, motivation and short and long-term memory), but while life forms other than mammalian hominids, such as amphibians, cetaceans, birds and reptiles possess well-developed limbic systems, neuroscientists have yet to discover that they also exist in viruses, rocks and subatomic particles.

That said, the difference between humans and viruses, minerals and particles could be accounted for by something other than the possession of a limbic system in that, for instance, while two of the latter are yet to be designated as life forms the jury’s out regarding viruses—after all, they carry genetic material, reproduce, and evolve through natural selection, and while they’re unable to exist outside the cells of living animals, plants and even bacteria they lack key characteristics (such as a cellular structure) generally considered necessary to constitute life.

As a cellular structure is also a characteristic of minerals I decided to mention to a friend of mine that rocks do not love or grieve.
I noticed, however, that he seemed to quiver slightly—presumably because, despite his lack of a limbic system, my pet rock was capable of experiencing and expressing emotion.   :D

I dismissed the possibility at once, of course, knowing full well that minerals (and the mass-less elements of particle physics, and possibly pathogens) aren’t actually life forms, and so are incapable of experiencing and expressing emotions such as love and grief, of demonstrating consciousness, possess an awareness of their spatial environment, have and display a capacity to reason about what others think by deduction—all of which are proven to be present in the behaviour of wild chimpanzees, apes, orangutans, tamarins and macaques as well as human children as early as between the ages of one and three years of age, and sometimes, in the case of self recognition in mirrors, as early as nine months, the same time that the capacity for reflective thought emerges—something feasible (whether or not the human race becomes extinct) only, so far, in the realms of science fiction—and not only because they lack opposable thumbs.  8)

While humans are alone in being able to demonstrate self-directed behaviour and self-recognition and, in some cases, able to make ethical and moral decisions,
the most significant difference, the thing which sets us apart from all other life forms, is our awareness of our own mortality—something even viruses, rocks and particles lack, and for which they should be grateful, if that’s possible...

I'd better go and console my dear little mineralised friend, now...  :)

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 10, 2013, 06:24:53 AM
I suppose it is not possible that there is anything we humans do not know, nothing new to be learned, no replacement dominant species waiting in the wings to take over after the current one has wiped itself out.
A “replacement dominant species” has been a somewhat favorite in science-fiction novels, such as Stanton Coblentz’s After 12,000 Years (1950) in which genetically-engineered giant termites, designed—interestingly—to win a war to control the climate, take over the Earth.

And in City, Clifford Simak’s 1952 novel spanning ten thousand years, humankind leaves Earth for Jupiter, permanently transformed in order to survive unaided on its surface, eventually dying out as the world they left is occupied by dogs who, surgically given speech and advanced vision, create a pacifist and vegetarian civilisation, only to be forced to leave Earth themselves by a developing industrial ant society, whose civilisation spreads across the planet.

And then there’s John Wyndham’s Web, published posthumously in 1979, in which a new species of spider, genetically enhanced by atomic tests in the Pacific, acquires advanced socialisation skills to become intelligent hunters, stalking and attacking their prey in “pseudo-militaristic squads,” with acute visual prey-recognition, capable of learning and problem solving, of using their webs, already covering the small island on which the story is set, to coincide with light breezes and updrafts to migrate in their millions across the ocean to South America.

If insects are indeed to replace us let's hope that they care more for the planet, but insects being what they are (even if granted super intelligence) I suspect it's unlikely, and eventually the world will become Byron’s “lump of death–a chaos of hard clay,” or simply a world  dominated by ant cities, massive, impenetrable giant termite mounds or continuous grey webbing.

Phase IV, a 1974 film directed by Saul Bass, though, offers an alternative.

In the film super-intelligent ants form a collective society of previously disparate ant species and wages war against two research scientists working in the Arizona desert; its ending implies that a new, combined species has been created in our planet’s evolutionary chain.

So there's some hope for us yet.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on November 10, 2013, 01:56:02 PM
It just seems to me that, as guests, we should at least attempt to keep the place tidy.

Oh, Lord! I'm a terrible housekeeper. ...  :(
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on November 10, 2013, 02:56:50 PM

  It was difficult to explore that last sentence, and, again, as it was written, it was in a different context.  But, standing alone, it touches on many directions, all worthy, but too foreign to the original intent.

Depends on whose original intent you're referencing.  My own "intent" certainly didn't get lost between one paragraph and another.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Tony_ on November 10, 2013, 03:05:24 PM
  Which was what I meant.  Your own post was integrated and consistent.  But anything anyone says, can bring up other directions or thoughts.  Which should not be ascribed to the original writer.  Was trying to hold to that. Must not have worked  :P.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on November 10, 2013, 03:18:12 PM
Terrible scenes from the Philippines on the news.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on November 10, 2013, 05:09:48 PM
Our pastor is from the most affected province in the Philippines. He hasn't heard anything from or about his people yet.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Sara B on November 11, 2013, 01:33:04 AM
Thoughts for him, Fritz.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: fritzkep on November 11, 2013, 09:09:34 AM
Thanks, Sara.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: suelyblu on November 11, 2013, 02:37:31 PM
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/harold-jellicoe-percival-hundreds-of-strangers-turn-up-at-dambuster-veterans-funeral


Gives you faith back in the human race.....doesn't it ?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on November 11, 2013, 08:54:02 PM
It made the national news here this evening, Sue!
And yes it does.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 13, 2013, 05:19:02 AM
If this is directed at me, I do not deny climate change. Far from it.
My post was not specifically directed at you, Sherry, but rather at climate change sceptics in general.

Climate change deniers
The debate is over about whether or not climate change is real. Irrefutable evidence from around the world—including extreme weather events, record temperatures, retreating glaciers and rising sea levels—all point to the fact that climate change is happening now and at rates much faster than previously thought.

The overwhelming majority of scientists who study climate change agree that human activity is responsible for changing the climate. The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is one of the largest bodies of international scientists ever assembled to study a scientific issue, involving more than 2,500 scientists from more than 130 countries. The IPCC has concluded that most of the warming observed during the past 50 years is attributable to human activities. Its findings have been publicly endorsed by the national academies of science of all G-8 nations, as well as those of China, India and Brazil.


http://davidsuzuki.org/issues/climate-change/science/climate-change-basics/climate-change-deniers/

I was actually more concerned about your equating humanity with the ebola virus.

Even Gore Vidal didn’t use such a pejorative metaphor:

As for the human case, the generation of men come and go and are in eternity no more than bacteria upon a luminous slide, and the fall of a republic or the rise of an empire—so significant to those involved—are not detectable upon the slide even were there an interested eye to behold that steadily proliferating species which would either end in time or, with luck, become something else, since change is the nature of life, and its hope.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 13, 2013, 05:21:53 AM
If this is directed at me, I do not deny climate change. Far from it. I see the same things the sky-is-falling people see. I just believe it is part of a normal cycle and even if it has been accelerated by human activity, it is just no big deal. The earth has been around for millions of years and people have kept track of the weather and climate for a couple hundred so what we know is... nothing. What we imagine is always the worse. And what we matter is of no consequence except in our own minds..
The problem I’ve had with interpreting your comments on climate change is what could be called, I'm sorry to say, their dismissive tone.

A fair reading of your posts on the issue could lead a reasonable person to believe, despite your recent denial, that you were a climate change sceptic:

- there’s no point in getting excited about the weather because “we’ve had [it] since ... forever;”
- that things get “reported and rereported regardless of facts [and] opinions become gospel...” and “Al Gore spins a good tale;”
- that the human species was “just another life form” unimportant to Mother nature, that we “are but passing through;” and
- “When we’re gone, who’s to care?”

Do you see what I mean?


Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Paul029 on November 13, 2013, 05:23:26 AM
It is interesting to me that so many people claim a belief in god or a supreme being that created this world for us and watches over us but is, apparently, not supreme enough... or maybe not interested enough... to save us even from ourselves.
Fair points, but I wonder whether the citizens of the Phillipines ascribe their trevails to God, to Mother Nature or just to plain ol’ bad luck.

I also doubt that any affected Filipinos would appreciate being likened to a deadly virus being purged by Mother Nature, but perhaps I’m being sentimental.

Typhoon Haiyan: is climate change to blame?
The Philippines has been hit by 24 typhoons in the past year but the power of Haiyan was off the scale, killing thousands and leaving millions homeless.
Is there even worse devastation to come?


Just as the world was beginning to take in the almost unimaginable devastation wrought by Typhoon Haiyan, a young Filipino diplomat, Naderev Sano, was getting ready to lead his country's negotiations in the UN climate talks in Warsaw, Poland. Yeb, as he is known, is a scientist and head of his country's national climate commission and had flown out of Manila just hours before the vastness of Haiyan had become apparent.

By Monday morning, Sano knew that the Philippines had been struck by possibly the strongest storm ever measured, killing many thousands of people and making millions homeless. He took the floor and, in some trepidation in front of the delegates of 190 countries, gave an extraordinary, passionate speech in which he clearly linked super typhoon Haiyan to manmade climate change and urged the world to wake up to the reality of what he said was happening from latin America to south east Asia and the US. He lambasted the rich countries, and dared climate change deniers to go to his country to see for themselves what was happening.


Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/12/typhoon-haiyan-climate-change-blame-philippines

The video included in The Guardian’s article is worth watching.

Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: bubba on November 14, 2013, 10:23:20 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/rob-ford-threatens-legal-action-over-court-documents-1.2426060


Can you imagine a politician speaking like this on TV??  ::)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 14, 2013, 03:34:30 PM
FINALLY! Airline passengers win one.

Airline Passengers Raise Objections When Blind Man, Service Dog are Kicked Off Flight

An unusual event in the world of air travel occurred last night, as a flight was canceled thanks to the aftermath of kicking a blind man and his service dog off the plane. The man, Albert Rizzi, was informed that in order for him to fly with his service dog, Doxy, the dog would have to remain under the seat in front of him. This is where the accounts from the airline, US Airways, and Rizzi and his fellow passengers begin to diverge. According to the airline, Rizzi became verbally abusive with flight attendants when they tried to calm his dog, who had left his required underseat location. Rizzi counters that the dog barely moved and was not misbehaving.

Rizzi and Doxy were kicked off the flight, and then other passengers ended up raising such objections about the pair's dismissal that the pilot emerged from the cockpit to dismiss the rest of the passengers. The flight was canceled, and all passengers, not just Rizzi and his dog, were driven by bus from Philadelphia to Long Island. Evidence that passengers were also upset is substantial. One woman, known as Sophie B on Twitter, posted a series of angry tweets:


more
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-now/airline-passengers-raise-objections-when-blind-man--service-dog-are-kicked-off-flight-172524277.html?vp=1
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Marge_Innavera on November 15, 2013, 08:30:54 AM
A small step; but marriage equality is gradually creeping beyond the blue states:

"Gov. Jay Nixon said Thursday that he supports legalizing gay marriage in Missouri during a news conference announcing that homosexual couples married under the laws of other states would be allowed to file combined state tax returns.

"n an executive order, Nixon directed the Department of Revenue to accept the combined returns as a reaction to the June ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court striking down the federal Defense of Marriage Act. That law barred same sex couples who were legally married from receiving any marriage-based federal benefits, such as tax exemptions and Social Security payments."

http://m.columbiatribune.com/news/local/gov-jay-nixon-says-he-supports-legalizing-gay-marriage/article_6c271bde-4d72-11e3-92c7-001a4bcf6878.html

(Cross posted at Gay Marriage thread)
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: Ellen (tellyouwhat) on November 15, 2013, 11:53:39 AM
I just heard that insurance premiums MIGHT GO UP based on the President saying people can keep their old policies. And before he said that they were GOING UP because of ACA and before the ACA they were GOING UP for at least 50 years (that I know about). Also, if you point this out, costs may go up. Ditto if you sneeze.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: brokebacktom on November 15, 2013, 12:00:26 PM
I just heard that insurance premiums MIGHT GO UP based on the President saying people can keep their old policies. And before he said that they were GOING UP because of ACA and before the ACA they were GOING UP for at least 50 years (that I know about). Also, if you point this out, costs may go up. Ditto if you sneeze.

I'm not a fan of the ACA, but its a start. The debate is finally coming to head like a zit. WE can no long keep going the way it has been. Employers do not want to keep paying for Healthcare anymore. Its too much of a burden. My plan when I had Healthcare been going up every year for the last 15. IN one year it went up 25% and the coverage went down. I do like the fact he is trying, but still has a LONG way to go. I just wish he was more of a fighter.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on November 15, 2013, 12:10:43 PM
Has anyone here on the forum purchased a health plan via one of the ACA exchanges?
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: doodler on November 15, 2013, 01:27:14 PM
Somebody please tell me something that hasn't go up. My gasoline jumped from $2.75 to $3.15 overnight.

I don't get the uproar about the plans that have been cancelled because they do not comply with the new law's minimum coverages. What part of law do people not get? If you are used to driving on roads that have no posted speed limits, would you expect to continue at whatever speed you wanted AFTER speed limit signs went up? All this crap is coming from people who couldn't think their way out of a paperbag even if one end was wide open... and from the press. But that may be redundant.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: CellarDweller115 on November 15, 2013, 06:51:53 PM
Somebody please tell me something that hasn't go up. My gasoline jumped from $2.75 to $3.15 overnight.


really?  Prices here have been going down, we're down to 2.97 now.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on November 15, 2013, 07:14:22 PM
I'm not a fan of the ACA, but its a start. The debate is finally coming to head like a zit. WE can no long keep going the way it has been. Employers do not want to keep paying for Healthcare anymore. Its too much of a burden. My plan when I had Healthcare been going up every year for the last 15. IN one year it went up 25% and the coverage went down. I do like the fact he is trying, but still has a LONG way to go. I just wish he was more of a fighter.

10 years ago when I was 51 yo, I was self insured. My premium went up to $950 a month. Rick was able to get VA benefits, which is the equivalent to Medicaid (not Medicare). There is a big difference.
The next year the premium went up to $1375 a month. This was more than my monthly house payment.  I did not renew it, as it  was priced beyond my means.  Because of pre-existing conditions not one else would touch me, even if I could have afforded it.

I don't want to even imagine what my policy would be now at 61 yo. I am in that wasteland of being uninsured and not yet eligible for Medicare. ACA will be that stop gap for me, even though I will have to get help in able to afford the premiums.
Somethings got to give somewhere.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on November 15, 2013, 07:16:50 PM
Has anyone here on the forum purchased a health plan via one of the ACA exchanges?


Not yet for me, but I will sit down in the next week or so and wade through the maze and see what is out there for me.

I will let you know what I find out. CA is supposed to be the best State set up for ACA exchanges.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: killersmom on November 15, 2013, 07:19:18 PM

really?  Prices here have been going down, we're down to 2.97 now.

I just paid $3.49 today and that is the lowest I have seen out here.
Title: Re: News and Current Events - 2013 to 2014
Post by: garyd on November 15, 2013, 07:25:43 PM

I don't want to even imagine what my policy would be now at 61 yo. I am in that wasteland of being uninsured and not yet eligible for Medicare. ACA will be that stop gap for me, even though I will have to get help in able to afford the premiums.
Somethings got to give somewhere.

See bolded. 
That is fine, great, okay.  Tha